1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Dear Governor is a production of I Heart Media and 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: three Months Media. If you are moved by Jarvis Masters 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: and his thirty years struggle on San Quentin's death throw, 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: and you'd like to support his cause, please consider signing 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: a petition on his behalf. Visit Free Jarvis dot org 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: slash podcast to sign your name to an open letter 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Dear Governor Newsom, Dear Mr 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: Governor Newsom. This is an open letter to Governor Gavin Newsom. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: Dear Governor Newsom. When Jarvis Masters first entered the walls 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: of San Quentin State Prison four decades ago, he was, 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: by his own admission, angry and bitter, filled with vitriol, 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: pent up from a lifetime of abuse, neglect, and hopelessness. 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: Were it not for the foresight and compassion of a 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: singular woman at a very pivot dull time in his life, 15 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: Jarvis admits he would have likely continued along the seemingly 16 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: preordained pipeline cradle to prison to casket melody irma child, 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: Chavez was so much more than a defense investigator on 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: Jarvis's murder trial. He credits her support encouragement is vital 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: to altering the trajectory of his life. In the forward 20 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: of his book Finding Freedom, How Death Row Broke and 21 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: opened My heart, he writes that Melody quote guided me 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: through the many steps from extreme anger to the clarity 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: of my Buddhist practice. She created a bridge for me 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: to the outside world, bringing people into my life and 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: giving passage to my voice. I recently spoke to Melody, 26 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: who is now living in Germany, and I asked about 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: her memory of Jarvis. When they first met back in 28 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: the early eighties. He just sat there, glum and silent 29 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: and glowering at me, and he had on this blue 30 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: watch cap, you know, kind of a ski cap that 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: they're allowed to have, and he pulled that way down 32 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: almost over his eyes, and crossed his arms and slumped 33 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: way back in his chair and stuck his legs out 34 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: and crossed his ankles and had nothing to say. He 35 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: just was a completely shut down and defended kid. Were 36 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: you intimidated by him? No, he didn't scare me, but 37 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I I felt a lot of compassion for him. I thought, 38 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: oh boy, you know, he's just not in touch with 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: his feelings and he's he's very scared. I thought that 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: he he's very strong, you know, fortress defenses he had 41 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: going where because he was probably like most of my clients, 42 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: really shocked to be facing the death penalty. Do you 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: have to understand when I met Melody, I was something 44 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: like that. Jarvis Masters recalls his first meat with Melody 45 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: over thirty years ago. I went out there with my 46 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: beanie and I did my little mug thing, and I 47 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: didn't like her. You know, she was too small, she 48 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't know what the hell she was talking about, and 49 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: you know I didn't have to listen to her. But 50 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: she recognized my anger in a way where she connected 51 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: it to masculinity and connecting with that child inside you. 52 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: You know what it is you know a man and 53 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: not be a follower, you know, and what it is 54 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: to hold some guidance and direction to your life and 55 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: not be scared of doing that. And she filled myself 56 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: up with books like that. What was it about her 57 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: that made you trust her? She was a lot tougher 58 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: and what I thought she was. And she knew more 59 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: about prisons than I thought she did. She had visited 60 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: my mother. It I was, I was too angry to 61 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: hear myself, and she starts shedding that away. You know, 62 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: I try to run her away from me very many times. 63 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't think she was serious at thought 64 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: it's all about the dollar, and I thought, you know, 65 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna sit out here and try to be 66 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: can't like you know, I'm getting something from her. You know. 67 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: I was also scared about what she would write about 68 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: my mother, So I hung out with her just to 69 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: figure that out. Um. I mean, this is the first 70 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: time I ever said that. But yeah, she was a 71 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: very is she is today a very, very dear friend 72 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: of mine. You know, I hope I can be that 73 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: for her. What is it about Jervish this Well, first 74 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: of all, you are basically credited with introducing him to meditation, 75 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: which changed the entire trajectory of his life. To recommend 76 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: meditation to all of your clients, or wasn't there something 77 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: about Jarvis that made you think that it could really 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: benefit him? Well, first of all, the ante the part 79 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: about what was special about jervis I thought when once 80 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: he once he sort of opened up, you know, I 81 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: got gained his trust. One of the things I did 82 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: is I just did go and see some of his family, 83 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: and they liked me, and I reunited him with all 84 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: his family he had nobody, had no visitors. And slowly, 85 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: you know, I got him back in touch with his sisters, 86 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: his brothers, and then finally his mom, you know, communicating 87 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: writing back and forth, and that he began to really 88 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: see the the benefits of having an investigative. You know, 89 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: I had many young guys being just as reluctant, you know, 90 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: just saying I don't need no desfinitely trial, you know, 91 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: get me out of here kind of that, just get 92 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: me out I don't want to do is also a 93 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: big one. And Jarvis had this too, is don't go 94 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: anywhere near my family, leave my family out of this. 95 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: You know, he knew he felt he'd led his mom down, 96 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: and he thought she probably didn't want anything to do 97 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: with him, and he didn't want her also to be bothered. 98 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: But eventually, you know, I got him think, well, look, 99 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, the government is paying me to write your 100 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: life story. You might as well take advantage of it. 101 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: Let's write your life story. Why not? You know, this 102 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: is just something we can do together while you're waiting 103 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: for your trial. And I'll go and find out some 104 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: stuff and I'll come back and let you know. And 105 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: he got more and more involved in it. Can you 106 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: tell me, like, what is the process of being a 107 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: criminal investigator? Well, later on we called that social historians 108 00:06:53,960 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: for capital cases, and that's a life history based on documents. 109 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: First of all, the foundation of it is the record, 110 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: medical record, school records, criminal records, everything you can find, 111 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: so that really establishes the dates that things happen in 112 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: many many names come forward with that kind of thing. 113 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: I got all of that for Jarvis, and then you 114 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: weave into it interviews with the defend that himself. So 115 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: Jarvis told much of his own story over time, and 116 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: then adding in quotes and recollections from everyone who knew him, 117 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: so neighbors and relatives and more distant relatives and the 118 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: maybe the pastor or any employer. Uh and in Jarvis's case, 119 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: the foster parents and the juvenile hall, people in the 120 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: juvenile prison, people who played a big role in his life. So, 121 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, he was vera young when I met him, 122 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: he was twenty two. I think I was also pretty young. 123 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: I was about forty seven. Maybe I recognized how first 124 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: of all, he's really smart and not everyone is right. 125 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't have the kind of brain injuries, 126 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: you know, that so many of my clients had with 127 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: fetal alcohol issues or having been a born on drugs, 128 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: or having been hit and beaten so badly to have 129 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: like little brain injuries. He just had been spared all that, 130 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: thank God. And it was a miracle because his mom, 131 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: of course, was on drugs and such. But he is well, 132 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: and so he has this foundation that we all need, 133 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: which is to have a functioning brain. And then he 134 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: has and the whole family has sort of what the 135 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: Irish called the gift of the gab. You know, he 136 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: just was so articulate, and it's funny and talkative and 137 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: and so many people are not, you know. I mean, 138 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: I've interviewed thousands of people in an out of prison, 139 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: and so many it's like pulling teeth. You know that yourself, 140 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: you'll ask something and then there you'll get mum mumble mumble, 141 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: looked down at the floor, you know. Or teenagers if 142 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: you've raised any of them, that they go through that 143 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: phase too. Uh. I can't tell get anybody to say anything, 144 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: But once he got started, he would He just would 145 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: tell stories and and entertain you. And I thought that 146 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: was really a lovely characteristic and I enjoyed my time 147 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: with him always, I think everybody does, you know, you 148 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: look forward to it. And and also he was the 149 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: one who insisted that we'd be friends. He had had 150 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: some team social workers and juvenile counselors and this and that, 151 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: and he said, I don't need that. You know, if 152 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: you're coming here to be my social worker and try 153 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: to help me and all this, I don't want anything 154 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: to do with you. I need a pal. I need 155 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: an actual friend. Need you to tell me some of 156 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: your life and what you're going through. Why would this 157 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: be a one way street. I'm not going to do it. 158 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: And I thought, okay, well why not. I guess I 159 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: could open up more with him. And then as far 160 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: as meditation, we learned that together. I was not a 161 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: Buddhist I when I met him, I hadn't meditated ever. 162 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: And I went to a course to learn meditate and 163 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: I thought this is great, hard, very difficult to do. 164 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: And I came up to see Jarvis and I said, 165 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm learning how to meditate. You want to 166 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: do you want to do it? You want to try to? 167 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: And he was like sure, And this was a joke 168 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: that I always tell it. I said, well, but this 169 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: is Buddhist, you know, like, do you want to me 170 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: to find some other sort of practice like from Africa 171 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: or something. Do you want something more like culturally? That's 172 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: not any looks at me, it goes, well, you're not Asian, 173 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: that's true. Good point. So we don't learned it in 174 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: the cell there. You know, we had contact visits prior 175 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: to the trial for that, and that was several years 176 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, to prepare. So anyway, we we did it together. 177 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: We really undertook this whole journey to calm down and 178 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: pay attention to what is happening with us together. You know, 179 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: it's very a very rich experience, and of course he 180 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: had it much harder than a prison is no place 181 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: to meditate, and there's also no place to open yourself 182 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: up to your inner self, you know, to start to 183 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: feel your emotions. You can't afford it in there. You know, 184 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: it's not a safe environment. It's not even safe to 185 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: close your eyes. It's not safe to be quiet or 186 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, or to cry with be the last thing 187 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: and he very bravely, very strongly, I thought, I'm I'm 188 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: going to benefit of this, and I needed to get 189 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: through the experience of facing his death bathing. It definitely 190 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: trials a lout like you know, you like a cancer, 191 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: diactosis or something. You many people think, wow, you know 192 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: this is it? What is why am I alive? And 193 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: what does my life mean? And he did? He really 194 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: approached it that way. Up next, how Jarvis's meditation practice 195 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: evolved in Buddhism became an energizing force in his life. 196 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: The practice of meditation could have led Jarvis masters down 197 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: any number of paths. I asked friend and defense investigator 198 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: Melody irma child, how and why Jarvis was drawn to Budism. 199 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: I brought him maybe or someone else sent him a 200 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: magazine that had Buddhist stuff in it. And he saw 201 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: an ad for free books from this group in northern 202 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: California that had their teacher, Kasan Toku, who became his teacher. 203 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: He wrote to them himself, I had nothing to do 204 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: with that, and he said, send me the books. I'm 205 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: on death row. And he had a whole correspondence going 206 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: with them. What did not involve me? And so he 207 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: sought out studying Buddhism, you know, really becoming a Buddhist scholar, 208 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: sort of reading uh and learning the history of it 209 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: and such more than than I did. He just went 210 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: like a duck into water or something. What would you say? 211 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: You know, he really spoke to him, and he pursued 212 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: it on his own. And you can tell that in 213 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: David Scheff's book how deeply he went into it and 214 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: how but he sought out teachers first charge, saying tookles, 215 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: then Pamma. I remember one day I had a visit 216 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: with him, which was on the phone. Then after the 217 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: trial he was put in solitary and for years I 218 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: visited him, talking to him on the phone behind glass 219 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: syd a glass window, and I visited him a lot. 220 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: One time, the guy at the gate said, you know, 221 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: we're going to redo our lists of all the visits. 222 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: He said, I'll just give you a copy of years. 223 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: And it was a hundred and ten visits at that 224 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: point at some point, you know, over years, over a 225 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: few years. So we're talking and he said, you know, 226 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm I'm corresponding with this little lady. She's so nice 227 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: and she lives would in the woods someplace. Oh, that's interesting. 228 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: And he said, and her name is Pinma, something like Pina. Oh. 229 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: And I said, wait a minute, Jervis are you talking 230 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: about Pemma Children. Yeah, that's her name. She was way 231 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: on in the woods. And I said, Josh, she is 232 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: one of the most well known Buddhist teachers there is. 233 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: You know, this is amazing, and and he said, oh, well, 234 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I just thought, you know, she 235 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: was like to write. May be she had written him 236 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: because of his book. You credit Buddhism for Jervis's transformation. 237 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: I think he would say yes. So I would say yes, 238 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: Buddhism and the way it opened him up to the 239 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: world and to kindness and to his own you know, 240 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: loving heart, which then drew in all these other people's Buddhism, 241 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: and also the support of dezens and hundreds of people 242 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: all around that have carried him forward to these Such 243 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: a wonderful person who so many people really depend on 244 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: his friendship. He's a really good friend too many people. 245 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: ID just has to be one of the most famous 246 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: person right now on denth Bro you know, as far 247 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: as having followers and having an international presence. U his 248 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: book was translated all around in Europe. And yeah, I'm 249 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: very proud of him. He's got his own two books. Amazing. 250 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: And then and then David Cheff's book now, yes, yeah, 251 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: David Cheff's book is so great, and you you are 252 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: the first person even mentioned in that book. You are featured, 253 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: featured so prominently. I'm I'm so grateful and honored in 254 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: sort of odd by the way Jarvis has given me credit. 255 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: It was saying, you know, been grateful to me and 256 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: talked about me, and also all of the other people, 257 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, Pamma and Payma children, and also Susan Moon 258 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: who published him first in Buddhist publication up Turning Wheel. 259 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: And you know, I just didn't forget the people who 260 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: have helped to him, and I just think that's so nice, 261 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: you know, I mean the first is of kind of 262 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: I was kind of embarrassed to be featured that way, 263 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: but that also Dan, I realized, you know, this really 264 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: is a lovely honor for me. I'm retired now and 265 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: an old kind of an old lady, and to feel 266 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: that work I did have been recognized, and it's more 267 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: like a symbol of all the many cases I have 268 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: thirty five people who are living on death or who 269 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: were my clients, and then you know, way way more 270 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: than that who did not get death and or even 271 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: were acquitted or you know, got terms of years and 272 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: such and and some doing life without parole. You are 273 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: also the impetus for Jarvis to start writing. From what 274 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: I understand as well, you too would sit together and write. 275 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: That's true. I always thought jarvis use of language was 276 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: just great, so he didn't have a formal education for 277 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: stuff like punctuation or even spelling. I thought that it 278 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: would be great if he could write down the way 279 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: he talked uh and write down his stories. So I 280 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: started doing these little exercises with him because he had 281 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: been talking to me all about noticing the child abuse. 282 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: We talked all about child abuse, what it is, and 283 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: how it happened to him, and the effects of that. 284 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: Most prisoners, many, many, you know, younger people think, well, 285 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: I was I was a bad boy, and my parents 286 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: disciplined me. You know, my father beat me and and 287 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: I deserved it, you know, that's just how it is. 288 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: And I would I would also beat my kids. And 289 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: I helped Jovis to see that that you could raise 290 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: kids without beating them. And it leaves these terrible wounds, 291 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: psychic wounds, emotional wounds, and even on your bodies and body. 292 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: And he told me about the scars you saw in 293 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: the prison Yard. All of that we sort of developed together, 294 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: and I said, well, why don't you just write the 295 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: whole thing down? And that went to at least twelve publications. 296 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: It was anthologized, and then finally made its way into 297 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: Finding Freedom. So it's all his own talent, right, I mean, 298 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: he does have a unique writer's voice. He has an 299 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: actual voice, and it's unique, and I think it's so great. 300 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: I really like his writing. And no, we would we 301 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: would go do all these little things when he was 302 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: behind glass. We would have both have paper and he 303 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: would have the inside of a a ballpoint pen, you know, 304 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: just the inside because they take away the metal outside 305 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: or hard plastic outside. And we would say, well today, 306 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: let's write about the ball game, or let's write about rain, 307 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: or let's write about sleep or whatever. So we we 308 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: both developed as writers together. I would say, then would 309 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: you read those like you give yourself tendent? Yeah? Then 310 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: read them aloud? Yeah, okay. We would be let's go 311 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: so many minutes and I'd look at my watch five 312 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: minutes and then and then read them to each other. 313 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: Was he ever, because he did not have the education 314 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,719 Speaker 1: that you had, was to be finned that decide intimidating 315 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: at all. I never saw that. He just goes ahead. 316 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: See that's another really great quality he has is that 317 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: he doesn't he knows, he doesn't have a mastery of 318 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: or didn't these of course he's learning, learned all these 319 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: twenty years punctuation or spelling every word. But he doesn't stop, 320 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't get it, gets intimidated or ashamed. Nothing. 321 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: He just goes ahead and puts it all onto paper 322 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: that all that stuff could be fixed later. Will you 323 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: be participating in any way, shape or form in the 324 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: federal appeal? Not that I've been contacted, I know, I 325 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: really I'm retired party. I feel like I've been healing 326 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: myself the last five years or so with nature. Kind 327 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: of enough murderer, Enough with murder, enough with prisons. You know. 328 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: I do go to see Jarvis, and when we're in California, 329 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: we go to see Chad Rhodes also, And I've been 330 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: in touch with him all the time, all the years 331 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: he's now been there over twenty years, mostly in the 332 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: Pelican Bay Shoe and now in a better prison. And 333 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: so I just have the two Jarvis and Chad Road 334 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: and I thought, well, all right, I'll just stick with 335 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: you guys until I'm not alive anymore, you know, I'll 336 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to spending the rest of my life 337 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: with them, and that it's very helpful to me, making 338 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: my life more meaningful. I wouldn't be the person I 339 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: am without no ide that's a fact, sound story. So 340 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: I think let's call and your telephone number will be 341 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: monitored and recorded. She came into my life at the 342 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: most angerious point I've ever been, and slowly she was 343 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: the person who said, you know, you don't need to 344 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: be that to be you, and she found that a 345 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: lot of books to support that, you know, and she 346 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: hung out with me. She stayed with me while I 347 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: went through that process. So you know, you can never 348 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: forget something like that, you know, Yeah, I certainly won't. 349 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: Was she like a mother to you? No, no, no, no, 350 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: not not at all. She was more like a a 351 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: teacher who not let you leave the classroom until you 352 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: did your homework. That kind of person, you know, Yes, 353 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's how that's how who she became. That's 354 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: the kind of person she's always been to me. Up next, 355 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: Jervis's own words on Melody, his introduction to Buddhism and 356 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: how his fraught journey to self acceptance led him down 357 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: the Buddhist path after Dion Graham, who voiced the audio 358 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: book Finding Freedom, How Death Row Broke and opened my 359 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: heart on how Jarvis managed to find his path in 360 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: the darkness of San Quentin's death Row. For a long time, 361 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: I've been my own stranger, but everything I went through 362 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: and learning how to accept myself brought me to the 363 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: doorsteps of Dharma, the Buddhist path. During my death penalty trial, Melody, 364 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: a private investigator working on my case, send me books 365 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: on how to meditate, how to deal with pain and suffering, 366 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: how to keep my mind at rest. She had broken 367 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: her ankle and was trying to keep still. She and 368 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: I were both trying this meditation gig, and like me, 369 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: she was confronting a lot of things in her past. 370 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: She was also writing and encouraged me to do so 371 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: as well. I began to get up early to try 372 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: to calm my mind so I wouldn't panic. It was 373 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: as if my whole life was being displayed on a 374 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: screen during the death penalty case. Things I never realized 375 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: about myself in my life were introduced to me and 376 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: the jury at the same time questions I never asked 377 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: my mother, like how long she'd been abused on the street, 378 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: and added, we're being asked now. Through meditation, I learned 379 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: to slow down and take a few deep breaths, to 380 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: take everything in, not to run from the pain, but 381 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: to sit with it, confronted, give it the companion it 382 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: had never had. I became committed to my meditation practice. 383 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: While I was in the holding booth during the jury's 384 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: deliberation on whether I should get life without parole or 385 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: the death penalty, I started leafing through a Buddhist journal 386 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: Melody had left there. In it was an article called 387 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: Life in Relation to Death by a Tibetan Buddhist lama 388 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: Choga Tokul Rimpachey. I thought, wow, this is right up 389 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: my alley. I sent a letter to the address in 390 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: the journal and got a reply from a woman named Lisa, 391 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: one of Rimpa Chase close students, with a copy of 392 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: his booklet Life in Relation to Death. At the time, 393 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: I got into some kind of trouble and was in 394 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: isolated confinement, stripped down to a pair of shorts and 395 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: a T shirt with only two blankets. In her letter, 396 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: Lisa asked if I needed help. I always needed help. 397 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: I still need help, and because the help she offered, 398 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 1: we began corresponding. Then she began to visit me and 399 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: eventually brought Rimpachey to San Quentin. When I first saw 400 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: Rimpa Check through the glass in the small visiting room booth, 401 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: I thought, oh ship, I'm in trouble. Now I'm messing 402 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: around with a real lama. He's from Tibet. Check him 403 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: out that everything he's got on is blessed. I figured 404 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: there were two ways I could introduce myself. I could 405 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: greet him in an ordinary way, or I could bow. 406 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: I bowed, then he bowed. Why do I think he 407 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't He's been bowing all his life. I thought, I've 408 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: been reading about llamas for the last three years, and 409 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: now I have a real one in front of me. 410 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: I knew that all I could do was tell him 411 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: exactly what I think. If I lied or shot away 412 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: from him, he'd know it. I fell in love with 413 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: him for the same reasons everybody else does. His life 414 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: history was my key. He had been a rebellious kid. 415 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: He wasn't born with a silver spoon. He was a 416 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: feisty guy who would discipline me when I needed it. 417 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: He knew what he was talking about and would say 418 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: it in a way that I'd get it. He had 419 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: a certain shrewdness, compassionate ferociousness. He was a lama who 420 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: ate beef, jerky, got upset, and had jewels of compassion 421 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: in him. The only thing he didn't do was say 422 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: all this to me. I just felt it. I thought, 423 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: here's a guy who can take me out of prison 424 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: even as I remain here. He won't dress me in 425 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: Buddhist garb, but except me as I am, I knew 426 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: he was a tough character. Next week, how, with the 427 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: help of a Buddhist chaplain, Jarvis managed to implement Buddhist 428 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: services to shed a little light into the Row. The 429 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: audiobook of Finding Freedom, How Death Row Broke and Opened 430 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: My Heart by Jarvis j Masters can be found at 431 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: Shambala dot com or Audible. We'll link to both sites 432 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: in our show notes. This episode was written and produced 433 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: by Donna Fazzari and myself Cornicole. Our theme song sentenced 434 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: is compliments of the band Stick Figure from their album 435 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: Set in Stone. Stu Sternbach composed the original music. Nate 436 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: Dufort did the sound design. For more information on Jarvis 437 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: and to find out how you can follow his case 438 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: and support his cause, please visit free Jarvis dot org. 439 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: For more podcasts. For My Heart Radio, visit the I 440 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 441 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.