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Speaker 1: Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieban. You are

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Speaker 1: listening to the All Ball Podcast. Our guest in this

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Speaker 1: version is Roger Pale Jr. Who is an incredible coach.

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Speaker 1: He just took a job with Gonzaga last three years.

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Speaker 1: He's been at Vanderbilt. Previously that he was with Bryce

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Speaker 1: Drew at valparais And of course you may remember him

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Speaker 1: as one of the stars of the Illinois team that

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Speaker 1: went thirty seven and two and lost the national championship

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Speaker 1: game in two thousand five. He traveled all over the

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Speaker 1: world to play basketball. UM, he's played for an unbelievable

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Speaker 1: list of coaches. He's coached under UM, a guy who

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Speaker 1: he deems to be one of the great offensive coaches

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Speaker 1: in basketball. And he has his dad was a great

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Speaker 1: player in his own right, and he kind of followed

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Speaker 1: in his footsteps, albeit at Illinois supposed to Illinois State.

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Speaker 1: So he's got a great journey and we'll talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Let me quickly give you my thoughts this what I

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Speaker 1: think is a nontroversy in regards to what's called by

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Speaker 1: some of the rich Paul rule. As you know, the

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Speaker 1: n c A made basically a baseline for what you

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Speaker 1: have to have. If you want to recruit kids signed

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Speaker 1: kids on campus that are underclassman, you gotta have a

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Speaker 1: bachelor's degree, gotta be a member of the n B

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Speaker 1: A p A, s A, I gotta be a cleared

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Speaker 1: agent for like three years, and you gotta go in

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Speaker 1: and meet with the n c A so you know

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Speaker 1: their rules. None of these are tall, tall asks. They're

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Speaker 1: just not It's not I mean personally, if I have

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Speaker 1: an agent, I would actually like for him to have, um,

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer, you know, have a have a law degree,

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Speaker 1: let alone a bachelor's degree. Of course, I want him

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Speaker 1: to have experience in the league. Otherwise, the hell's he

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Speaker 1: talking about? How does he know where I'm gonna be drafted?

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Speaker 1: And the idea of going to meet when the n

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Speaker 1: c A sounds like some drug darkon I in um

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Speaker 1: storyline or or rule. But I mean, the fact is

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Speaker 1: that if you're a member of the n B A

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Speaker 1: p A, you have to know the rules of the NBA,

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Speaker 1: But you don't necessarily have to know the rules of

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Speaker 1: college basketball by going to meet with the n c A,

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Speaker 1: I mean with and say you do, so you can't say,

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Speaker 1: hey didn't, No I wasn't supposed to do that, right,

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Speaker 1: you can't. And then you have Lebron James chiming in

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Speaker 1: saying this is the Rich Paul rule. Look, Lebron James

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Speaker 1: is obviously a narcissist, somebody with the narcissistic personality disorder

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Speaker 1: characterized by grandiosity, come on the king, excess, excessive need

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Speaker 1: for admiration, a personal disdain, lack of empathy for other

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Speaker 1: uh displays arrogance, and distorted sense of superiority. They seek

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Speaker 1: to establish abusive and control of others self confidence. I

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Speaker 1: I think that he thinks and this is a big one,

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Speaker 1: self perception of being unique, superior. You're an associated with

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Speaker 1: high status people and institutions. Le Bron James is one

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Speaker 1: of the all time great players. But the n c

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Speaker 1: A isn't worrying themselves with one Rich Paul who might

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Speaker 1: sign a guy or two from the NBA draft. They're

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Speaker 1: concerned with the idea of guys that are underqualifying, misrepresenting

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Speaker 1: themselves as qualified NBA agents giving guys advice, which is

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Speaker 1: bad advice because that's what happened. How many guys have

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Speaker 1: you seen and stay in the draft because they thought

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Speaker 1: they were told late first, early second, like, well, you

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Speaker 1: know this thing happened. That thing. The best agents, you know,

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Speaker 1: they get, they give really good advice. Do you know why?

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Speaker 1: Because if you go lower in the draft and they

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Speaker 1: told you go, if you go undrafted, most people usually

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Speaker 1: fire their agent. That's what happens. Guys that get they

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Speaker 1: go undrafted almost all fired their first agent. Many second

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Speaker 1: round picks fire their first agent because they thought late first,

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Speaker 1: early second. You go late second round or you go undrafted,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna fire that agent. So a real reputable agent

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Speaker 1: isn't going to lie to you. This is not even

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Speaker 1: this is a very low bar. So the bar is

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Speaker 1: pretty low. And the news flash to Lebron and all

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Speaker 1: of his minions in the media and on social media

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Speaker 1: is this isn't about Rich Paul. Paul reps a guy

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Speaker 1: or two in the draft. No. Yeah, by the way,

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Speaker 1: like like the the idea that Rich Paul is the

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Speaker 1: reason for an n c A rule is when you

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Speaker 1: think way too highly and way way too you put

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Speaker 1: way too much importance on yourself, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: what Lebron has done in his narcissistic ways. He's not

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Speaker 1: the first one to show player mobility Lebron James changed

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Speaker 1: teams twice, both times when he was a free agent.

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Speaker 1: He didn't force his way up. Paul George, if anything,

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Speaker 1: has forced his way out in a harder situation, signing

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Speaker 1: and being traded one year later. Like that's a bigger

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Speaker 1: thing in the NBA than what Lebron has done. Ron

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Speaker 1: is a great player. He's done some interesting things, and

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Speaker 1: he's helped raise Rich Paul to dominance. The only trailblazing

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Speaker 1: he's done is for Rich Paul, is for Richpaul, and

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Speaker 1: that he's paved the way for a guy who's selling

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Speaker 1: jerseys at the back of his car to being a

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Speaker 1: prominent and powerful agent in the NBA. But for colleges

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Speaker 1: to want to protect their student athletes and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I just gotta make sure guy's bachelor's degree. He's been

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Speaker 1: a legit agent, met with us, so he knows the rules.

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Speaker 1: That's not a high bar. There's no more narcissistic statement

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Speaker 1: than one that applies to all agents. And assuming it

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Speaker 1: only applies to your agent, you know, look, if if

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Speaker 1: you and if you combined it with what David Griffin

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Speaker 1: said to Sports Illustrated, you start to see why everything

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Speaker 1: David Griffin said, no matter how lightly he walked it back,

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Speaker 1: does appear to be accurate. It does appear to be

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Speaker 1: accurate from this perspective. Lebron himself has said he's not

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Speaker 1: the same animal about winning. He's just said in a

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Speaker 1: different way, I have nothing more to prove in the end.

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Speaker 1: B A. If you think the culture that Lebron James

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Speaker 1: brings to a team is good, then why did that

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Speaker 1: thing fall apart so badly last year? Why did Kyrie

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Speaker 1: Irvery want out? Like? Part of culture is do the

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Speaker 1: younger players get better? Does the team get better as

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Speaker 1: season goes on? Do they practice it? The reason they

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Speaker 1: cut Calves were bad his last year in the regular season,

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Speaker 1: they didn't practice. You can't establish culture, can't refine offense.

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Speaker 1: That's a really hard deal. Let's just go out and

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Speaker 1: wing it figured out in the fly And he felt unhappiness.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think Magic's unhappiness was solely based upon

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Speaker 1: Lebron James. But the first thing Magic Johnson said when

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Speaker 1: he resigned was I want to be happy and be

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Speaker 1: Magic Johnson again. So this is who Lebron is. Super talented,

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Speaker 1: unbelievable pressent takes up the air in the room. But

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Speaker 1: he's a narcissist who's never been told no, thinks so

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Speaker 1: highly of himself. He thinks that he invented barbershop talk

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Speaker 1: on television, even though there was actually a movie called

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Speaker 1: The Barbershop and there's a famous barbershop scene and coming

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Speaker 1: to America. Joe Lewis is seventy two years old, right,

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Speaker 1: So while talented David Griffin paid this picture that we

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Speaker 1: know he loves to play, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: he'll compete and win, but he's not the same as

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Speaker 1: he used to be, and it's not always that fun

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Speaker 1: because it's not about building. It's just about creating a

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Speaker 1: team that he can ultimately win with take the credit

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Speaker 1: when they win and not take the blame when they lose.

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Speaker 1: And now apparently the same goes for his agent and

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Speaker 1: friend Rich Paul, which is he thinks everything is about him,

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Speaker 1: including an n C A rule that literally has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with him or very little to do with him.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug dot

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Speaker 1: Leap Show week days in noon eastern three pm Pacific

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app

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Speaker 1: during my lifetime. I think there's probably I'm forty three,

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Speaker 1: and so there's there's there's moments that you remember about

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Speaker 1: the Final Four. They're special teams that are unique and

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Speaker 1: um one of those teams was the Fight in the

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Speaker 1: Line I. That was an incredible team. They were the

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Speaker 1: first team when they lost North Carolina. It was a

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Speaker 1: two thousand five national championship game in St. Louis. I

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Speaker 1: remember it because it was I think it was the

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Speaker 1: first time I was actually sent to cover, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of cool. And I was sitting courtside next to

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Speaker 1: Michelle Beatle the first time I met her, and I

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Speaker 1: said before the game, She's like, does Illinois have any chance?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, they they if they take

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Speaker 1: like forty threees, they got a good shot. And sure enough,

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Speaker 1: they took forty three and nearly won the game. And

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Speaker 1: that team was really transformative in college basketball. One of

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Speaker 1: the stars that team is now assistant coach at Gonzaga

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Speaker 1: names Roger Powell. He joints us in the All Ball podcast, Roger,

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Speaker 1: how are you? I'm doing good? How about good? I

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Speaker 1: want to get to uh that Fighting the Line I team.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about your post Illinois playing career. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but you're from Jaytown. So look, here's here's what I

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Speaker 1: know about about Juliet, Illinois. Okay, I'll give you the short,

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Speaker 1: quick version. Um, My teammated Notre Dame was named Um,

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Speaker 1: I was named Bell. Uh Man, Gary Bell? Okay, g Bell?

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Speaker 1: Right and and Gary Bell was listed I believe it

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Speaker 1: like six eight and he was at best six five.

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Speaker 1: But in today's NBA, today's NBA, he would be nasty

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Speaker 1: because he was like an undersized four left handed, long

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Speaker 1: arms whatever. But I I rolled up to the Coca

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Speaker 1: Cola All American Game my senior year in high school,

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Speaker 1: and I walked in the gym and they set up

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Speaker 1: as in Indianapolis at the time, was run by Bob

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Speaker 1: Knight's son, and I remember like I was excited because

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Speaker 1: I sign up played Notre Dame and Gary Bell was

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Speaker 1: actually the highest rate of recruit. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: where's Gary Bell? Like right there? I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, no, that guy is like six four, Like

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Speaker 1: that's Gary Bell anyway? Um And then uh yeah, So

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Speaker 1: that's that's my first Juliet memory. What was it like

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Speaker 1: growing up in Julie, Illinois? Oh, man, Joliet, Well, it's

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Speaker 1: funny you mentioned Gary Bell. You know, he was definitely

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Speaker 1: one of those guys that I grew up in Junia

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Speaker 1: High watching play. And you know, Juliet is it's a

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Speaker 1: suburb of Chicago, you know about portaments away. Um, so

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Speaker 1: you know you kind of have your own you know

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Speaker 1: Juliet swag. You know, because we go up to Chicago,

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Speaker 1: you play against you know, the wide Julians. You know,

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Speaker 1: we always in Juliet, we always had a chip on

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Speaker 1: our shoulders. But with that being staid, we have to

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Speaker 1: retely time to players, um, you know in in the

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Speaker 1: you know, suburb areas. So growing up there, man, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was just you know, it was just a form

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Speaker 1: of pride and uh form of just trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: carry on a legacy. You know, all all the good

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Speaker 1: basketball players that came from Juliet, you know, my dad

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Speaker 1: being one of them. You know Gary Bell, Tyd Carter

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Speaker 1: would have played int Wisconsin, you know John Ford, you

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Speaker 1: know David Evans. You know, so Terry Gain was from

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Speaker 1: from Juliette he played Juliet Catholic as well. Um, so

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Speaker 1: tell me about your telling about your dad. Uh, your

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Speaker 1: dad was a great player at Juliet Central. Um. How

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Speaker 1: what what what do you know about his career, about

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Speaker 1: how he played. So my dad, Um, obviously he was

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Speaker 1: from Juliet, played the Central I played at West There

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Speaker 1: are two schools that have separated from like you know,

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Speaker 1: like two miles west Side east Side. East Side's kind

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Speaker 1: of like the rough part of Juliet. I kind of

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Speaker 1: grew up in that area, but then I moved to

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Speaker 1: the West Side when I was great to get away

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Speaker 1: from games and get away from a lot of the

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Speaker 1: bad things that were going on. So you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up, you know, all I could do was just

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Speaker 1: hear stories about my dad and spentral Man, who you know,

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Speaker 1: broke records. I mean as a sophomore he ever was

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Speaker 1: like thirty three points a game in high school and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so he was really good, you know,

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Speaker 1: basketball player, kind of like a legend in the Dula area.

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Speaker 1: So you know, obviously I had a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: a large shoes to field. Then he went to Imoine

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Speaker 1: State and played for the Red Birds, and they his

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Speaker 1: nickname was in that bomber because he could really shoot

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Speaker 1: from far out, like he had deep range, and everyone

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Speaker 1: was just like every time you know, my dad comes up,

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Speaker 1: they're like man that day. Can that guy can really

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Speaker 1: really shoot? So he was you know, it was all

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Speaker 1: American there, played with Doug Collins, um and uh and

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Speaker 1: then after that he went on and pass some fives

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Speaker 1: with some with some dates and um, he decided to

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Speaker 1: be uh, you know, be a teacher at a maximum

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Speaker 1: security prison. He coached a little bit at Julia or

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Speaker 1: college so to keep kind of basketball, keep his basketball

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Speaker 1: fix going. So you know, that's my dad in nutshell.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's it's amazing everywhere I go. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've been coaching for nine years and that's my ninth year,

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Speaker 1: and like every time I meet somebody, someone has a

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Speaker 1: thought about my dad, which is really cool to here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, my dad is no longer here. My dad

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Speaker 1: was you know he was obviously not not a player

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Speaker 1: like he played, but not a player like your dad.

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Speaker 1: But it is. It's one of the things about basketball

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Speaker 1: kind of being this this family. Remember how late Howard

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Speaker 1: garfin Garfinkel uh set would say said that to me,

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Speaker 1: like every year I'd see him at the Final four,

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, your dad, he brought your mom up.

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Speaker 1: She was his fiance. Basketball his family and it really is.

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Speaker 1: And then when they they when they say great things

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Speaker 1: about your parents, it's it's pretty pretty awe inspiring. So

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Speaker 1: when when you're you're coming up at that time, he's

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Speaker 1: working in a maximum security prison while you're a kid.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, No, he was working. He was he

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Speaker 1: was a p teacher at the maxiem security prison. And

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Speaker 1: it was a youth prison. I y C Joliet and

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Speaker 1: you know, the the oldest kids. They were eighteen to

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Speaker 1: us teenagers and um, you know guy that you know,

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Speaker 1: did you bad crimes? I mean it was, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty intense. But the cool thing was, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, every once in a while I would go

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Speaker 1: and play take of basketball with those guys. You know,

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Speaker 1: so I was here, I am Virginia, I kid, you know,

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Speaker 1: playing pick up with a budget inmates and that kind

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Speaker 1: that's kind of where I kind of got my toughness,

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Speaker 1: kind of got my swagger from those opportunities. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes my dad would take me there to

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Speaker 1: help me, you know, refocus and not get in trouble man,

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Speaker 1: because like I kind of grew up and I was

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Speaker 1: kind of a problem trying. Like I kicked out like

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Speaker 1: four schools, you know, one school or twice, you know,

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Speaker 1: in my elementary years. So bring me there. Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: I did from everything, man, I did, I thought. So

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Speaker 1: I grew up obviously Joliet East Side. I had some

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Speaker 1: really my thumb members were all kind of like gang members,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, I kind of had a trip

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Speaker 1: on my should because like I was one the only

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Speaker 1: kids and they were they had a dad, so I

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Speaker 1: would always you know, he just acts out to do things,

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Speaker 1: didn't fight and I don't know, just childest things. That

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Speaker 1: was kind of useless and um, you know, I ended

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Speaker 1: up getting kicked out. But but to be honest, I

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Speaker 1: went to a Copol school in jed Hi and that

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Speaker 1: kind of changed my life. Man, That's where I kind

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Speaker 1: of refocused. I got three of my academics and basketball

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Speaker 1: I got even better and it kind of gave me

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Speaker 1: a goal and it just kind of helped me, you know,

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Speaker 1: helped me refocus and you know, stop getting getting in trouble.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy. So so I never I never got kicked out,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I had. I got in trouble all

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Speaker 1: the time, like you name it. I did it right,

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Speaker 1: like I and uh, when I was in middle school,

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Speaker 1: my dad was like, hey, I'm gonna hold you back

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Speaker 1: because I was he grew late. He knew I was

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Speaker 1: going to grow late. And I was like five ft

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Speaker 1: tall and eighth grade hundred two hundred three pounds, and

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Speaker 1: so like I knew I was in and I was

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Speaker 1: just paying the ass. So like I did things where

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Speaker 1: I took a paper clip and have a rubber band

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Speaker 1: and i'd fired it a substitute teacher, you know, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be looking at fire and actually hit one of them

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Speaker 1: in the face got suspended. And then my my grades

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Speaker 1: came and it used to be ah, it was one

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Speaker 1: of those where would come in and it was like

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Speaker 1: it was like it's self contained envelope and you'd open

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Speaker 1: it up and it was it was that deal where

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Speaker 1: was like you could actually erase them really quickly. And

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Speaker 1: I erased him and knew how to make it look

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Speaker 1: use a typewriter and type on the back. Where had

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Speaker 1: that kind of paper that would make the print and

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Speaker 1: change the grades? So um, and I didn't give myself

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Speaker 1: like straight a's. It's like a's and b's and maybe

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Speaker 1: one C or something instead of like the d's and

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Speaker 1: sees that I had. And so my mom goes in

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Speaker 1: when I get suspended from school and she has to

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Speaker 1: meet with the vice principal and vice principles, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: and his grades are terrible. She's like, what are you

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Speaker 1: talking about? I was like, yeah, She's like, he's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's failing some classes. He's not showing up. He's She's like,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about. She's like,

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Speaker 1: he's like, here's the here's the report card. She's like,

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Speaker 1: that's nothing port card I got. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: like it was, so what when you get in trouble

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Speaker 1: at school? How would your dad handle it? Oh? Man?

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Speaker 1: Talk about Spanking's man, my dad wasn't. My dad did

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Speaker 1: a better rock but shoot it, it didn't work. It

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Speaker 1: didn't work. You know, it's funny. Man. I actually shared

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Speaker 1: his story a lot when I speak two kids. You know,

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Speaker 1: I grew up obviously in a rough city. You know,

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Speaker 1: I saw a lot that kids shouldn't see, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't uncommon for us to be going

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Speaker 1: home and a drive by happened. We had to dug

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Speaker 1: behind cars. So, like, you know, he's just kind of

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just that the environment you're in, you know,

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Speaker 1: you got you're mad and you feel like fighting is

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Speaker 1: the only way that you know kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: it achieved any type of you know, man stamp, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: so it was just it was just kind of like

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Speaker 1: a persona that I tried to take on. But the

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Speaker 1: funny thing is, you know, the last squarl I got

337
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Speaker 1: kicked out of it was a Liza Kelly and it

338
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Speaker 1: was like one of the rougher schools in in our area.

339
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Speaker 1: And here I am getting kicked out of rough to school.

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Speaker 1: So my parents kind of had the last string. They

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Speaker 1: would say, okay, really gonna send you to a juvenile center.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna try a Catholic school. And uh the Captain

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Speaker 1: School was on the west side of Joliet St. Jude's

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Speaker 1: and I'll never forget my first like a week there.

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Speaker 1: Like I was the only black kid in the school.

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Speaker 1: It was like each class had like twenty five students

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Speaker 1: the whole in the whole class, and you know, everyone

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Speaker 1: was kind of intimidated by me, but you know, it

349
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Speaker 1: was it was my last shot. And my parents convinced

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Speaker 1: the nuns and and the principle that hey, he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be on his best behavior, and uh, man, my first

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Speaker 1: report card there I got four F and a D

353
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Speaker 1: and I got a D and p E. And it

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Speaker 1: was just I was going down to tubes. It didn't

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Speaker 1: look like it was gonna work. And there was this

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Speaker 1: lady named Miss Stink, And like I shared everybody I

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Speaker 1: speak to because it's a it's a remarkable story. How

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, a teacher can really impact the kid.

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Speaker 1: This lady, Miss Stink, kind of took near her wings.

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Speaker 1: She was like six to She was an intimidating teacher

361
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Speaker 1: in the school. There were so many scary stories about her,

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Speaker 1: but yet she took time to mentor me, and she

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Speaker 1: just you know, we had a couple of conversations and

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Speaker 1: I can't relate to her because I was tall and

365
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Speaker 1: everybody was intimidated by me, and you know, we just

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Speaker 1: kind of hit it off. And she was like, if

367
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Speaker 1: you think you want to be a basketball player, and

368
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Speaker 1: if you think that, you know you want to be

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Speaker 1: successful and you want to you know, have a good future,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have to focus on your academics. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to learn to, you know, be respectful in classrooms

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Speaker 1: and not fight when you get angry. And she basically

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Speaker 1: like mentored me and that lady to this day, like

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Speaker 1: I give her credit for change in my life because

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Speaker 1: I went from Forest one D too. You know, my

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Speaker 1: my sixth grade year or my seven grade year, I

377
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Speaker 1: was a BC student, eighth grade year as and b's

378
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Speaker 1: and then my first year in high school, I was

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Speaker 1: a straight A student, never getting kicked out of school.

380
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Speaker 1: I just it just totally changed my life. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I went back to I went back to that school

382
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Speaker 1: about I want to say, three years ago, and I

383
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: and I want to say hi to her, and they

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Speaker 1: had a school assembly that day and they were actually

385
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Speaker 1: honoring her on the day. I showed up and I

386
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: got to share that story. Man, it was it was

387
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 1: a pretty special moment. Man. So that's kind of that's

388
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 1: kind of how you know, my life changed. And because

389
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,439
Speaker 1: that's kind of direction or the another moment where like

390
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 1: my life started to take a positive trend up. You know,

391
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: Bill Selfer's head coach of Illinois. You're in high school

392
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: and Juliet they started to get it rolling. Um what

393
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 1: led you to pick Illinois? You know initially like they

394
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 1: actually offered me, man my freshman year, uh, my freshman

395
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: year and in high school, I was playing varsity. We

396
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: played downstate and played against Quincy, and I think Rob

397
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: Judson at the time was an assistant there and he

398
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: saw me in the state tournament and you know my

399
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: freshman year that that was my first offer. And it

400
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: was actually when Long Cruiger was there, and UM, you know,

401
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: I kind of fell in love with Illinois. Um. You know,

402
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: I always wanted to play for my state, but you know,

403
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: I was getting recruited by Michigan State, Tomzo, Arizona, UM,

404
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 1: some really good schools order danglars for me really heavily,

405
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: and you know I wanted to kind of go to

406
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,360
Speaker 1: the process a bit, but I always had a little

407
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: more in the back of my mind. So I committed

408
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: early after my sophomore year. And then that's when Long

409
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: Crew Girl, actually I think he left and went to

410
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 1: the NBA and they hired Bill Self and uh, and

411
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: Bill Self came to see me and he continued to

412
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 1: recruit me and we built the really good relationship, and uh,

413
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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of stay. I stayed committed and

414
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,919
Speaker 1: I signed with Bill self. How good we are your

415
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: senior year? You know, my senior year, I was good.

416
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 1: I mean I was like like a top five in

417
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: the state. Um, I think I was like fourth for

418
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 1: like runner runner up Mr Basketball. But but that year

419
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: and you know, we had you know, Eddie Curry will

420
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: buying them, um, myself and ge back goes Pierre Pierce

421
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: Luther Head. So it was a very talented run in

422
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 1: the Chicago suburbs in the city. You know, the year

423
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: before us, you know it was Duane Wade, you know,

424
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: was there Matt Lotting. So, I mean basketball was really

425
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: healthy in the Chicago Land area during those years. So

426
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: you show up in Illinois in two thousand one, who's

427
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: in your squad two thousand one? Shot man? I had

428
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: time to me if you if you need help? So

429
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 1: so so so the freshman it was myself, uh Looper

430
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: Head and then I think our seniors was Corey, Corey Bradford,

431
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: Frank Williams, Robert ar Trew Bald who played an NBA.

432
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: Obviously one of those Frank Williams played in the league.

433
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: The Miracle Paulia Brian Cook was was Junior Snacks, Um

434
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 1: Generics Howard h Yep Snacks. Yeah, we we had a squad. Man.

435
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: It was it was family too, man, it was. It was.

436
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: It was a pretty cool deal. Okay, so I do

437
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: think it's interesting, Like so cham Champagne is like for

438
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: a guy who's you're from the suburbs of Chicago, Like,

439
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 1: it's a little bit out there, right, It's a it's

440
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: a true kind of state school, and it does. I

441
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: always feel like, you know, when I went to Cloma State,

442
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: was what it was different than Notre Dame and that

443
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: it was a state school. It's removed kind of from

444
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: a city, and so it it brings you closer. Was

445
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: that what it was like for you? Like, was it

446
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: was it two country for you? Like? What was it

447
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,959
Speaker 1: like for you when you first got there? Man? You know,

448
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: to be honest, I didn't really think much about it.

449
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: I was just exclad to be playing for Illinois UM

450
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: back in that day. I mean, Illinois was had it

451
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: rolling UM and we were winning UM winning Big Ten

452
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: championships and and obviously, you know, my four years there

453
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: was pretty market. We won the Big Ten every year

454
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: and you know, three six teams championship games. So you know,

455
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 1: when you're there basketball so was so exciting. You know,

456
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: fans were loved us. You know, you kind of forget

457
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: that you're in you're in the cornfield, middle of nowhere.

458
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 1: Because you know, you just you really you're pretty much

459
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: at the gym, you're dorm class and then traveling for games.

460
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: So it was it was fun, man. I like, I

461
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: loved my four years there. Why didn't Frank Williams making

462
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: the league? I have no idea that he was. He

463
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: was a really good talent, um, you know, and he was.

464
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: He was a great guy, and I really loved playing

465
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: with him. Um, you know, but you know, it's it's

466
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: the NBA rot of easy, you know. Um, the fact

467
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: that he got drafted and the fact that he played

468
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: the games he did. You know, I think it's I

469
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: think I think it's a success. Now some guys, you know,

470
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: obviously paying out and getting a good situation where they

471
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: fit and things go well. And some guys, you know,

472
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: you know, maybe played for three or four years and shooting.

473
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if to me any basketball players that

474
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: would wouldn't trade that type of career for you know,

475
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: no question, but he can't. He was super super hyped

476
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: and he you know, and he uh Bill self really

477
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: got a lot more out of him than it felt

478
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: like Lon would. And but then he didn't, you know,

479
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: he didn't stick for a long time in the NBA

480
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: the next year. Next year you bring in James Augustine,

481
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: Darren Williams, um and d Brown. But I want to

482
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: ask you about your freshman year. You you didn't play

483
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: very much. What was that like? What was that like emotionally?

484
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: To go through your dad's a legend, you played every

485
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: year in high school, You're a star. You come into

486
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: Illinois and you barely play? What was that like? Man? So,

487
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty confident that. Um, I was

488
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: pretty confident that I was gonna be a starter there.

489
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: You know, I knew that I had some guys are

490
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: hading me, some seniors that you know, had a lot

491
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: of experience. UM but I worked my tail off, and

492
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, I was tough and practice, I didn't back down.

493
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: And and when I did play, you know, and I

494
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: showed glimpses, I showed signs you know that you know

495
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna be good and that The thing that

496
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: changed my career was this summer going from my freshman

497
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: to sophomore year. UM I went on. I went to

498
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: a big ten off star trip and Build Stuff was

499
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: actually the coach and actually let that team scoring. And

500
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: they said, men, they had a bunch of upper classmen,

501
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: Tom Coverdale. I mean there was a ton of guys

502
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: that played in the Big Ten that were older, and

503
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, I I really played really well. And all

504
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: the work that I put in the summer my freshman year,

505
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, during the season, extra work I put in

506
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: outside of practice, and then leading up to that Big

507
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: Ten off Star trip that worked I put in, the

508
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: kind of it kind of came out and I thought

509
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: that was where Bill seft fall, you know, the potential

510
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: I had, and and he started me the next year,

511
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: and you know, I played really well. And obviously when

512
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: we went on a way in the Big Ten tournament

513
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: and we went to you know, went to the went

514
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: to the tournament walk in the second round. But that

515
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: that that my freshman to Baltimore year was where I

516
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: made the Hugh strides and I never looked back. I

517
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: mentioned that freshman class that came in that team that

518
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: won the Big Ten that year. Your only senior was

519
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: Brian Cook, who was again kind of before his time,

520
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: right like you know Stretch four five, you know James

521
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: always team became kind of the same thing. Um, But

522
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: you brought in Darren Williams and Dee Brown, UM. And

523
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: it's interesting because when d was probably more highly regarded

524
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 1: right one, because he's from the state too, because he's

525
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: just that's an electric player. Did you know what did

526
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: you see from Darren Williams when you first saw him?

527
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: M hmm, I know Darren was gonna be really good.

528
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: You know. Number one, he he could really really defend,

529
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: and he was extremely extremely competitive and uh you know

530
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: he was he was a little overweight when he got there,

531
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: so he needed to lose some weight and U but

532
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: I knew. I knew he was gonna be a special

533
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: form guard. He had great court vision and uh man,

534
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, he's just he he was

535
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: that bigger guard that could guard anybody. And uh so,

536
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: as as as his freshman went on, I mean, he

537
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: just kept getting better. And I mean each year he

538
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: improved a ton. But I knew he was gonna be special.

539
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: Now I was shocked. I'm not gonna lie. I was

540
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: shocked that, you know, obviously was the NBA All Star,

541
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: But you know, many kids just kept improving and uh

542
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: he was just his competitive nature. I think there's a

543
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: reason that he was as good as he was. Um. Okay,

544
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: so let's so Bill self leaves. What after that year

545
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: after our sophomore year, you have people call, so you

546
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: guys go, you go to the tournament, you lose to

547
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: Notre Dame. Right, he lost Notre Dame in the in

548
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament in Secon round, he beat

549
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: West Kentucky losing Notre Dame. Um, what do you remember

550
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: about losing the game and when Bill end up leaving

551
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: and how you guys found out. So so it's funny

552
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: because you know, we lost to Kansas my freshman year

553
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: in a see sixteen, I believe, and uh, you know,

554
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: like no one never really thought that folks were leaving

555
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: go to Kansas because you know, I mean it was

556
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: like we were upset and we wanted to play them

557
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: again to beat them. You know, it's kind of like

558
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: that if we see them do this again and we're gonna,

559
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna beat them. And uh and uh,

560
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: when he said he was leaving, you know, it was tough.

561
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: It was really tough because we built a really good relationship.

562
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: He believed in me. He gave me the opportunity, um,

563
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, my soft year to start me at the

564
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: three position, which you know I love playing in the

565
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: wing and and I really feel like I was getting

566
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: a lot better. And so when he decided to leave,

567
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, we had to make a decision me personally,

568
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: if I was gonna transfer or state. And I'm a

569
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: loyal guy, so obviously I end up standing. You know,

570
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: I think I believe our team me all kind of

571
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: came together and right together, we're gonna stay. And when

572
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: they have Bruce Weber, you know, he just kind of

573
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: came in, and you know, I was able to, you know,

574
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: get us to compete and get us to play together.

575
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: We believed in him, and uh shoot them. You know,

576
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: we went on a run from there. You know, I

577
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: think I think he did a good job of, you know,

578
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: getting us, getting us to believe in him, getting us

579
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: leaving his system and style, and keeping that team together

580
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: because obviously, you know, we were a special team, and

581
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: if any one of us would have left, you know,

582
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: I don't think we would have been as good because

583
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: we were so good together. When did you Where did

584
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: you almost go? Did you follow me? Where you gonna

585
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: fall in the Kansas? Where were you gonna go? I

586
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: don't remember at the time, you know, obviously, and you

587
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: know you thought about that, but you know, I just

588
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: really comfortable Illinois. I mean, you know, one part with

589
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: my dad played it Alinois State and he was long

590
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: American there, and maybe going to Only State could have

591
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: been you know cool, you know, going down to the

592
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: mid major, and maybe I could have had a big

593
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: role there and all my dad's legacy. But you know,

594
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: I decided to stay, and I'm really happy I did, because,

595
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we my to my junior senior year. I

596
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: thought my freshmans soccer year was good. My junior senior year, man,

597
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: we've really really won a lot of games and at okay,

598
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: But but you also played the four, right, so you

599
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: said how much you liked playing the three and Bill

600
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: started you at three. What was the conversation like with

601
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: you and Bruce Weber when he said, look, you know

602
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: we could put Augustine at the five. We got you,

603
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: d Will de Brown, Luther Head. Those are three guards.

604
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: You know you were, I mean really we and we

605
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: played small when I was in college, we had Dezen

606
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: Mason played the four. So it wasn't like you the

607
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: first of the kind. But I'm I'm guessing that because

608
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: you look in the league, there weren't six six four

609
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: men back then, right, They just weren't. What was that conversation? Like,

610
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: you know what's funny because my my junior year, I

611
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: still started the three and uh, you know, I think

612
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: Luther Head came up to Bush and it was it

613
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: was me and Nick Smith. Maybe did Nick Smith started center? Yeah,

614
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: I forget. Maybe maybe Brian Cook was Was Brian Cook

615
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: on that team? No, Bran Cook graduated your come on, man,

616
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this. I know James Harkerstin started five

617
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: and there's one other players that started O. J hold up,

618
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: I got I got the U. Nick Smith started six games,

619
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: Brian Randall started nine games, and Luke started twenty four games,

620
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: but he only played I started. Yeah, I started out

621
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: playing the three and then he brought me in and uh,

622
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: he asked, hey, would you be willing to go down

623
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: to the four because he felt like didn't make our

624
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: team more you know, versatile, And obviously he knew that

625
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a wing and then obviously I

626
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: worked on a lot of guard skills and he was

627
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: just like he knew that from from the standpoint of

628
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, getting drafted, you know it could I could

629
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: I could think it could hurt my draft stass, which

630
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: it may have very well did. But you know he

631
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: I knew, and and and coach Weber knew. You know,

632
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: me playing the four opposed a mismatch for other teams.

633
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: And I was strong enough. I was, you know, big enough.

634
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: I was athletic enough to do it. And uh so

635
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: I said, sure, I'll do a good team and end

636
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: up end up really up and us. I mean, I know,

637
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: like in the big team play, we won like thirteen

638
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: straight games to finish off the season, and then obviously

639
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: our senior year we were twenty nine and one in

640
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: the regular season. So you know, it was one of

641
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: those things where like I believe in what he was saying,

642
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: and you know, me going down to before I still

643
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: was starting, I thought, I thought it could help our team,

644
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: and it did. So that was a conversation, and you know,

645
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: I don't regret it because I mean we should literally

646
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: switch one through four, and it just it just made us.

647
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: It made us more versatile. You guys were twenty six

648
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: and six. You take on Duke in the they have

649
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: uh lu All dang A, j Daniel Ewing, do Haun

650
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: Sheldon Williams, Shadick Randolph Um and it was close game

651
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: at half and they end up beating you by ten.

652
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: What do you remember about losing to do It was

653
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: a tough game. You know, it's tough game and lose.

654
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: I really wanted to beat those guys. I really want

655
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: to advance. Um. But at the same time, it was fun,

656
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I think the game I played

657
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: one of my better games, like eighteen points and like

658
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: eight reebounds, and I messed up against Loui all bang

659
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: someone that was I knew it was gonna be a

660
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: first round draft picks. So for me, I took it

661
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: as an opportunity to you know, prove that you know,

662
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: I was the NBA player and and but we came

663
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: up short. I mean, they're really good, really good, and

664
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's I think losing that game

665
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: kind of put a chip on our shoulders, uh going

666
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: into this summer, um, you know, for the following season.

667
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: But it was a fun game. Anytime you're playing a

668
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: set sixteen, you know, and you're playing those those atmospheres,

669
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: I was, is it's special. Okay. So so you win

670
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: your you in twenty nine in a row to start

671
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: your senior year, you win every game of the regular season,

672
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: only to lose the regular season finale, right to Go

673
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: thirty and know you play at Ohio State, you lose

674
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: by one point. Here's the question that matters fifteen years later.

675
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: Do you remember the other game, any of the other games,

676
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: or do you just remember the loss to Ohio State.

677
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: It's crazy because, like I definitely remember the loss to

678
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: how to say, more than a lot of the other games.

679
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: But that being said, like I remember, you know, playing

680
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: Wake Forward, you know, when they're number one, were number

681
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: three and in the sing home we beat him by

682
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: like twenty points. I remember, Um, you know, some of

683
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: the West Constin games because back then in West Constin

684
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: we got a huge rivalry. And one of my buddies

685
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: who played at block Fort, which was across town, rival

686
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: Alando Tucker, played at Wisconsin. So you know that was

687
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: always a special game for me because you know, you

688
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: smoked them twice. Elmore Illinois versus Websconsin was like Jolia

689
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: Towns verse Lockport. You know, it was kind of one

690
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: of those like rivalries. So that that was that was

691
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: the memorable memorable games. Um, but definitely you know you

692
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: remember that, you know, Matt Silvester going nuts. He wasn't

693
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: even like a major part of our sky report. But

694
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: the dude had like twenty seven points and like this

695
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: toty like destroyed us. And uh but at the end

696
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: of the day, I felt like it kind of refocused

697
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: us because we were went to a tournament with three

698
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: and oh, you know, I don't know if we would

699
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: have ran off those eight straight games to get to

700
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: the championship. Okay, so you win the Big Ten, you

701
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: win the Big Ten Tournament Wisconsin, a third time, you

702
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: go to the n c A tournament and you get

703
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: to the Elite eight, chance to go to the final four,

704
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: and you guys were down the famous Illinois comeback. Were

705
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: you guys down like fourteen with how many minutes to go?

706
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: Like that? That thing was it felt like it was over,

707
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Oh yeah yeah, I mean people turn to

708
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: turn the TV off. You know, people are upset. Our

709
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: fans were quiet. Now. It was unbelievable, unbelievable come back.

710
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: And you know, I still they don't even know how

711
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: we how we made it. Man, I'm in the game

712
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: praying and saying, God, I guess it's not meant for

713
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: for this to happen, But I say, if it is,

714
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: you gotta help us and as we're down fourteen, like

715
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm praying that prayer, and then we are still hit

716
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: the three. Got no still in the three. See we

717
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: got another still hit the three and just like bam,

718
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: like the game is tied. And I just knew once

719
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: we tied the game, I knew we were winning. Over time,

720
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: it was, it was, it was unbelievable. Yeah, you're down,

721
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: Uh I think you're actually down fifteen with four minutes

722
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: to go. It was at All State Arena, which, um,

723
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: of course that's where De Paul used to play. Um,

724
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: that's the used to be the Rosemont Horizon, right, So

725
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: it's in the suburbs of Chicago, and you're really you know,

726
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: you guys have arguably the greatest comeback in the history

727
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: of Illinois. And then you go to overtime, like, look,

728
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: it was close. As much as you may have said, hey,

729
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: coming back tying it, we knew they still forced overtime

730
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 1: and it was still a close game in overtime. It

731
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: was it really was, It really was. But this is

732
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: confident we're gonna win, and and that seem was good. Man.

733
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: They had n Adam standing Fry uh um. Who else

734
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: did they have? Uh? Yeah, A lot of really good players.

735
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: Channing Fry was here. I'll give you there. Yeah, they

736
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: had Seline Stodemeyer, Mustafa Shakur, Hassan Adams, Channing Fry, Channing Fry.

737
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: He gave you twenty four and twelve? Is that you

738
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: you were he was guarding? Is that that who you

739
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: were driving? A little bit? But I had I had,

740
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: I had had an eighteen and like nine. I mean

741
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't like you know, like it was it was.

742
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, changing w I gave you to It's okay,

743
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: like Channe Fry has given it to a lot of

744
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: He gave you a little bit there, but um no, actually,

745
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: actually he gave it to King James. August. Thing was

746
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: days Argust. Thing was mashed over with him. I was

747
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: mashed up with their their four man Danovitch, Yeah, Ivan Rodenovitch.

748
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean he's corn

749
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: a game. You you guard the big white stiff. That's

750
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: the treaty, like, man, give me this. He he had

751
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: fourteen I believe that's a career. All By the way,

752
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 1: he had fourteen four steels to assist five rebounds. His actually,

753
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: his his resume tape is lighting you up? What was

754
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: what was my what was my state line? You went

755
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: your step line? Um, you were six of eleven. You

756
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: had sixteen points, five rebounds, four offensive boards is big

757
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: big five? One block on defensive rebound. I was going,

758
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 1: I'll try and get put back. Yeah, and yet four

759
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: offensive fouls four fouls? Not four offensive four fouls? Yeah? What? What?

760
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: What else did I have? I had the big what

761
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: the W? Right? You had the w You had zero assists?

762
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: I want to point out complete. I didn't have the path.

763
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: We had a bunch of a first point guards on

764
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: the court. So you go to the final four, so like, look,

765
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: you go from playing in Chicago hometown not far playing

766
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: in St. Louis And I think everyone knew like you

767
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: guys were on a or I felt like I remember

768
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: covering it. You guys are on a collision course to

769
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 1: to play against against North Carolina. You guys stomped Louisville.

770
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you beat the heck out of Louisville in

771
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: the in the semi finals, and then you take on

772
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: North Carolina and here you guys are thirty seven and one. Um,

773
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: you know your thirty seven one? The only loss is

774
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: by one point and yet you guys were big time

775
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: underdogs to North Carolina. What do you remember preparing for

776
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: the national championship game? Man, it just it goes so fast.

777
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: I remember you think about the final four. Just I

778
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: remember getting there and they have that final four ceremony

779
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: where you get your ring and they get that little watch.

780
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's it's just a surreal moment.

781
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I don't really remember a ton

782
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: of the preparation, just because it's going so fast and

783
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: there's so much expire a mint um. But the one

784
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: thing I do remember, that this might be weird, there

785
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: is there is one moment in every game um in

786
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: college professionals that that it just it makes me feel special,

787
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: Like it makes me feel like I am a part

788
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: of this, I am a part of this, of this

789
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: athletic event. I am in this game. I am about

790
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: to perform, like and that's the national anthem, like every

791
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: time I play, every time the national anthem, even as

792
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: a coach, Like it's just this that moment where like

793
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: I take in the environment, I take in the fans,

794
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: I take in the moment, and I remember the national

795
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: anthem at in St. Louis and I think it was

796
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: the Rams and there's I forget the name of the dome,

797
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: but I remember they had an ego slide from the

798
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: top of the dome and landed a half court and

799
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: I remember, just like, you know, the thing of the

800
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: national anthem and just that moment, man, was the was

801
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: the time where I can really just take in. We

802
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: are in the national championship game and uh and once

803
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: once tip, once once it tipped, and once we started playing.

804
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you just you just so focused on trying

805
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: to win. You know, there's really nothing no abstracting you.

806
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: But like the national anthem at the championship games is

807
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: where I like I kind of took in the moment,

808
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, I know it was. It was amazing.

809
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: And uh, you guys took forty three's, you only made

810
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: twelve of them. Game was close, you end up losing

811
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: by five points. I distinctly remember that locker room we

812
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 1: lost in lead eight in Syracuse to Florida in two

813
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: thousand and I'll never forget like looking around that locker

814
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: room and it's, like you mentioned, it goes so fast.

815
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: Like you you played four years at Illinois, you know,

816
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: you started for three of those years, and you guys

817
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: won four Big Ten championships, like you won a lot

818
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: of ball games, and then all of a sudden, like

819
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: then it's over. It's like I will probably never play

820
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: with these guys ever again. And as you know, there's

821
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: an incredible bond. And you play in college especially you know,

822
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: as you said, surrounded by corn fields whatever. Dudes are

823
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: from all over and you come together and it's it's

824
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: like your family. Do you remember that? Do you remember

825
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: what Bruce said when it was over? Do you remember

826
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: anything about that locker room? You know, I don't remember.

827
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean obviously I cried. Man, you know, just the

828
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: hardest thing and I hate that this hasn't happen, But

829
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: the hardest thing is coming up a second, you know,

830
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: in the national championship game, Like that's the hardest thing

831
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: to endure because you're walking off the court and there's

832
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: a celebration going on and you're not celebrating. And it's

833
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: funny because like now the basketball coach in college, like

834
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: I go to the final fours every year, and I

835
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: love going to the games, the championship game, the semifinals game,

836
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: and I can always relate to the team that loses

837
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: as they're walking off the court, because like that is

838
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: like you have this high getting to the moment and

839
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: then bam, you come up short. It's it's hard. It's hard,

840
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: but you know, obviously you in the locker room, you know,

841
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: it's just like I mean, I like, I think I

842
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: remember Coast whoever. It was a lot very positive and

843
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, just like really praise us for accomplishment. What

844
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: we did was like, it's it's unbelievable accomplishment to make

845
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: it that far, you know, you know, it kind of helped,

846
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: it kind of helped cheer us up a little bit.

847
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: But it's stock no, And and look, you guys went

848
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: small and they were big, and Sean make kicked James

849
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: Augustine's ass, right, and you guys tried to do You

850
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: did the math, you did almost analytics three is bet

851
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: more than two. You guys are down big at the half.

852
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: He came back, made it super close, but you just

853
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: couldn't make enough shots, you know to win the game.

854
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: Luther heads five or sixteen, um, you know, but I

855
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: mean the big thing was you guys could not contain

856
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: Sean May. He just kind of ate you guys alive.

857
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: Was it was was my memory of it, is that

858
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: accurate depiction. Yeah, you know, I mean Dave Largest can

859
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: files out in ten minutes. I mean that was kind of,

860
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: to be honest, it was kind of ridiculous, you know.

861
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: I just you know, I was unbelievable how a guy

862
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: can file out in ten minutes, you know. So you know,

863
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: I know, Sean May was really good and I'm not

864
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: thinking didn't go away from him, but you know, I mean,

865
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: James Augustine should played more than ten minutes in that game.

866
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: That would have helped up a ton um. And you know,

867
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: you just you know, they made some big time shots

868
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just it was it was.

869
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: It was a good game, you know. And and obviously

870
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: we shot out threes, and you know, if some of

871
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: those things will fail, you know, it's a totally different game.

872
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: But you know, it is, it is what it is.

873
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: And you know, like I said, even to this day, man,

874
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: when I see guys in North Carolina, man, it's just

875
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: we we we you know, we got to experience that.

876
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: You know. You know, Jackie Mannie, I've seen a ton

877
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: he coaches out for where I was for for five years,

878
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: so we kind of had a relationship from there. And

879
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like, hey man, this was still

880
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: a cool thing that we got to experience. Those guys

881
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: just came out on top. So you get done playing,

882
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: you go undrafted, What did you go? How did you do?

883
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: You go to summer league with the Sonics? How did

884
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: you get to how did you get with the Sonics? Yeah?

885
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: Actually went to the the Star League with some league my

886
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 1: first year. Kind of man, so long ago, I'm mate

887
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: it with the Dallas Mavericks and then I signed with

888
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: the Besides, I went to training camp with them and

889
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: I made the preseason roster and I was like the

890
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: last cut and then you're going, you're going too fast

891
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: year real quick. Okay, so the SuperSonics, do you who

892
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: do who was in that training camp? Jeez man, that's

893
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: that's almost that's that's that's over teen years ago. Bro's crazy.

894
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: You don't you don't remember who was on Like you

895
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: walk into the Seattle SuperSonics. I mean this is back

896
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: when they were good. Do you want to know who's

897
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: on that roster? Yeah? He was obviously he was kind

898
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: of nice. Like Jesus was on the team. You got Jesus,

899
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: which was awesome, Like I got to spend a lot

900
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: of time with him. That was great. It was awesome.

901
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: Rick Brunson was on that team. Yes, and Rick Brunson

902
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: was somebody that I kind of continue to buil a

903
00:45:53,560 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: relationship with um Luke written our uh uh. We had

904
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: some bets from that team too. Was Damian Wilkins was

905
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: on that team. I think Damian Wilkins, him and I

906
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: were like competing for for a spot. I believe. I

907
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: don't think he was guaranteed. Reggie Evans was on that team. Yep.

908
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: Reggie Big Reddy Iowa. Another big team guy, the Tally Potapenko.

909
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: They had Robert Robert Swift was their first round draft pick. Yep,

910
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: I'm really him. Did you know that he was like

911
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: he couldn't handle it? I didn't. I mean it was

912
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: just like I didn't at the time. But you know,

913
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: he was big and athletic, son and tattoos at the

914
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: time like I was back with tattoos guarded becoming even

915
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 1: even more prevalent. But I remember he had a ton. Uh.

916
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: But the dude, man, he should have loved stuck. I

917
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: don't know what happened with him mentally or whatever, but

918
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: like man, he was, he was talented. So do you

919
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: remember getting cut. Fuck. I try to try to block

920
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: those moments out, but I'm here to bring him up.

921
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean because I remember because I was in training,

922
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: I was in UH. I would do the I did

923
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: the VET free agent camp with the Lakers three different times,

924
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: and I remember every time, um Mitch cup Check would

925
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: come in and go like nah, you know, like, hey,

926
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: you've been great, blah blah. And the third time he

927
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: was like, we feel like you're really close and you

928
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: should probably go to the D League and you might

929
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: have a shot at this thing. And I was a

930
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: bad fit for their system. They were try and go obviously,

931
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: and I was a I need a ball screen, you know,

932
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: I need the ball in my hands, not out of

933
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: my hands. I wasn't a shooter, and I just I remember,

934
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: I remember what what I remember most, and you ultimately

935
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: obviously made it with the Jazz the next year. But

936
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: what I remember most was you walk in the facility

937
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: and the Lakers. You walk by Shacks picture, Kobe's picture,

938
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: Magic's picture, Kareem Wilt, Jerry West, good Rich, everything, and

939
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: at first year, at first year like overwhelmed, and then

940
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: everybody so cool to you and treat you like you're

941
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: part of the team, They're like, yeah, I could do this,

942
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: and then you start to like think about because you

943
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: when you get when I got there, I didn't think

944
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: there's I was like, there's no way I'm making the Lakers,

945
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: no shot. I just I need to impress other people.

946
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: And then you're like, man, I could I could do this,

947
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: and then they come into like, now you can't do this.

948
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: I remember just that being devastating to me. I mean,

949
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: if searching back in those native memories, what do you

950
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: remember about it? Yeah? It was tough, man, it was tough.

951
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: You know. I felt like I should have made a team,

952
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: and I competed in practice. Um, but yea, I was

953
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: a rookie and I knew that, you know, it was

954
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: something that I had to I had to had to

955
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: grind harder than everybody else and and I did that.

956
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 1: But I didn't get much of an opportunity in preseason.

957
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: I didn't getting much opportune to place. I kind of

958
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: had a feeling that, you know, once the game started,

959
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 1: that wasn't gonna make it. Um. So, you you know,

960
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: you just so so you go to Rocket, you go

961
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: back to Rockford. So now you're pack your stuff you

962
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: get cut, you go to the c b A and

963
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: this is when the c b A is not the

964
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: c b A of of old. But you went in

965
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: and you decided to play for a team kind of

966
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: close to your hometown, like Rockford's not far from from Joliet,

967
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: and you were cb A Rookie of the Year. Why

968
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: not go overseas? Why stay stateside? I wanted to play

969
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: an NBA and I was gonna I was gonna play

970
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: an NBA, you know, um and that was something that

971
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: I was determined to do and I approved. So in

972
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: the cb A got to play the three, and you know,

973
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: I got me on the ball, I got super ees,

974
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: I got to you know, make create off the dribble.

975
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: And it was good for me. You know, it was

976
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: a good experience. It was it was great for my

977
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: my wife. We got married. Yeah, I even got to

978
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: live not by far from my hometown. And um so

979
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: I feel like I was ready for an NBA roster.

980
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: So that's why I didn't go overseas. And and at

981
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: the time, you know, how wouldn't have got probably a

982
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 1: big contract overseas because you know, I hadn't done much. So, uh,

983
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: that summer, you you went to did you work out

984
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: in Utah? Like, how did it? How did it come

985
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: to where you? Um? You went to camp with the Jazz,

986
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: So they had me come for a workout and Mike consumed. Uh.

987
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: As soon as the c D season has done, Like,

988
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: I came down and worked out by myself, and they

989
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: tried to put me to the ringer and I handled it,

990
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: man um, and they were impressed. And they end up

991
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: giving me like a partial guarantee to come to training camp.

992
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: And it was them and the Miami Miami Heat. I

993
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: didn't work out for both of them, the Miami Heat

994
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: and the Jazz, and Jazz guarantee more money, so obviously

995
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: I went to the Jazz route. Yeah, it was It

996
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: was cool. Man. I was there all summer. I trained

997
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: with the team and you know, I went. I was

998
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: with the training camp and I got to play this

999
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: year at that time, and I played well in the

1000
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: preseason games and they end up keeping me, and uh,

1001
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: that's when I felt like, Man, I arrived, I'm in

1002
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: the NBA. It was awesome. Yeah. What was that feeling

1003
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: like of seeing your name on the back of your

1004
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: jersey and you walk into locker room first game of

1005
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: the season, and you're an NBA player. It's funny. Man.

1006
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: When I went to sign my contract with the Jazz,

1007
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: now this is I don't tell me people this, but

1008
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: the first thing I did, I walked into the arena

1009
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: and by myself and the guy who keep it from

1010
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: the airport, and I said, hey, you just getting a second.

1011
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: I want I want to walk I want to walk

1012
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: into the arena by myself, just kind of take it

1013
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: all in and believe it or not. I re and

1014
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: I re enacted the MG Michael Jordan's game six shots

1015
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: when they won a championship, and like I literally did

1016
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: that in Jazz Stadium by myself because it was just

1017
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: kind of cool to know that here I am in

1018
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: the place that that happened. So uh, the fact that

1019
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: I was signed with the Jazz was special. But I

1020
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: just it just it just hits you that, man, this

1021
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: league here I am. I made it like I haven't

1022
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, I haven't signed like a multi ye deal

1023
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: or anything, but yet I'm gonna play a game in

1024
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: the NBA jersey in this arena. So it was. It was.

1025
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool, man. It's something now I felt,

1026
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, it was. It was it was a dream

1027
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: it was it was a goal. Uh, you know, accomplished.

1028
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: I want to go through really quickly each of the

1029
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 1: country she played in. But um, who is the best

1030
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: player you ever played against in the NBA? Mm hmm

1031
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: that I guarded and like I actually had to, like, yeah,

1032
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: go against I would say, I would say probably Smello Anthony. Um.

1033
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: I didn't really dark Kobe much. I didn't in chance

1034
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: of dark him. Um r Millo Anthony. Like we went

1035
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: at it and that was that was pretty cool man.

1036
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: He was. That's when he was really young and he's

1037
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: really athletic and the dude to play. Yeah, you score

1038
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: and score anywhere. He got the ball right, like I mean,

1039
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: scored the mid post, scoring the post, scored the mid range,

1040
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: shoot them three some just I mean, just just an

1041
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: absolute scoring machine. M m. You got to be locked

1042
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: in boy and get a budget easy, okay. Um. I

1043
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: know you went to the to the d League and

1044
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: then you end up going overseas. One memory of playing

1045
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: for to Ramo in in Italy. So the cool thing

1046
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: about Italy um uh you know my first year over there,

1047
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: I made more money in Ali that I laid in

1048
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: the NBA as a as a as Um you know

1049
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: NBA minimum, so you know, I was getting paid a

1050
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 1: lot of money to play there. And you know it

1051
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: was cool, man. You know, it's very competitive. Um, the

1052
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: league was really good. There's about NBA guys in that league.

1053
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: The basketball was at the highest level. And uh, you know,

1054
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: it was an opportunity for me to you know, for

1055
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,959
Speaker 1: my first time playing in Europe, to you know, show

1056
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: hey that I could play and hopefully signed a bigger deal.

1057
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: And I just remember that the Arenas, man, because this

1058
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,879
Speaker 1: that was the first That was the first country I played.

1059
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: And I played a lot more countries after that, but

1060
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: I remember the Arenas in the city and how much

1061
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,959
Speaker 1: love they half for the team. It was pretty cool.

1062
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. Um. The next year you went

1063
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: to Jerusalem. I know you're with the Bulls in between,

1064
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: but didn't make the final cut. Um, what do you

1065
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: remember a boy Jerusalem? So being a Christian man, I

1066
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: mean just living in Jerusalem. Uh, it was was pretty cool. Man.

1067
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: In my was like ten minutes away from where Jesus was,

1068
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, crucified and and buried in rose Um, fifteen

1069
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: twenty minutes from beth Landord was born. You know, Um,

1070
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: and that was that was surreal, just being able to

1071
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,919
Speaker 1: play in that environment and you know, learn Hebrew and

1072
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, go to all different sites and you know,

1073
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: play for the play for Jerusalem. I mean we had

1074
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: we had a line on our jersey was like the

1075
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: line of the tribe of Judah. And you know, for

1076
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: for a kid who grows up, you know, going to

1077
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: Sunday school, like the Tribe of Judah is kind of

1078
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: cool and special. And here I am with a lion

1079
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: on my jersey because I'm playing for Jerusalem. So that

1080
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: was that was That was a moment that I a

1081
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: year that my wife and I always remember. Spain the

1082
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: next year, what was that? Like? Spain was cool? Um.

1083
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: That was the first time I ran to a situation

1084
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: where they say, hey, you know you might not get paid,

1085
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: like the sponsor didn't have any money, and if we

1086
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: were getting paid for the last like the month for Christmas,

1087
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm kind of leaving there because I wasn't getting paid

1088
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: and going to France. So you know, at the time

1089
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: I was in the HP was good, very tough league

1090
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: at that time, was very confetitive and even if the day,

1091
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: I think d CB is one of the best leagues

1092
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: in the in the world. Second to the NBA. UM,

1093
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: So it was good. It was fun. I mean, I

1094
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: got to play against Joel Ingles, who's killing now, you know,

1095
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: and they signed a major contract. I got to play

1096
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: against Ricky Rubio that's when he was like sixteen playing

1097
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: for Barcelona, and uh he was like the the Spanish

1098
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: justin beaver Um. So that was that was cool with

1099
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: seeing that and seen his fanfare. Um. But it's cool, man,

1100
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: just all those countries, Man staying Italy and Jerusalem. Man,

1101
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: just this an experience that only basketball can provide for

1102
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: someone like myself. And and I just I'm so grateful

1103
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: for the game to be able to live in those countries. Um.

1104
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: You mentioned went to France. Then you were in the

1105
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 1: Bulls training camp twice for kids in Chicago, the same

1106
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: kid who you had that great comeback against Arizona. You

1107
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: re enacted the Jordan's shot. By the way, when you

1108
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: re enacted the Jordan shot, was it with the ball

1109
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: without a ball? Definitely without a ball? Okay, So there

1110
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: was there was even there was there was even a

1111
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: court on it was just like there was no court

1112
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: on the floor and in the gym. But I just

1113
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: I called my eyes and imagined it okay, so uh,

1114
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: but to not make the Bulls twice? How was that?

1115
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: Was that devastating? What was it? I mean? Or was

1116
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 1: it just wasn't meant to be because you've already played

1117
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: in the league and you already made some money doing it?

1118
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: What like? What was what was what was that like

1119
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: for Chicago kid Man? Anytime to get cut as devastating? Um,

1120
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: but that last that last time I thought I was

1121
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: gonna make it. I was so close. And you know,

1122
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: when when you're playing well and you feel like you

1123
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: deserve to make the team and you don't, you know, obviously,

1124
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: whether it's money deals or they want to go with

1125
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: a bed, I mean whatever, whatever the reasoning is, you know,

1126
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 1: it is devastating. And you know at that time, though,

1127
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, I've been playing, so I was like, oh,

1128
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: it is what it is. I'm gonna go overseason and

1129
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: found a really good track and maybe come back. Yeah.

1130
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: That was a really good Bulls team too though, right

1131
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: Like that was that was? That team won sixty two games?

1132
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: Sixty two they did, they did, they did, and uh

1133
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: and I had a great camp and had some really

1134
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: good games. I mean like in pre season when I played,

1135
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: I mean I and one of my best dunks was

1136
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: on Gore Top. You know, my last my last NBA

1137
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: buck was in the preseason. I dunked on Gore Top

1138
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: six six went down the lane. Damn. I mean it

1139
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: was nice and that that was my That was my

1140
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: last time I scored an NBA arena And uh um,

1141
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: So I guess I kind of went out with the bank.

1142
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: So I felt I felt accomplished. I guess why did

1143
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: you count? Then? Count? These preseason can't count for me?

1144
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: If you got you got Gore, if you got a

1145
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: foot her, you got a foot her right like it

1146
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,919
Speaker 1: doesn't I got a foot Yeah, it doesn't doesn't really matter.

1147
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: Why so you go to Germany after that and you play, well,

1148
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: why did you walk away and start coaching? So you know,

1149
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: I had ran a sports ministry. It in the summers

1150
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: my whole my whole playing career, and uh, every summer

1151
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: I would come home and I would do skill development

1152
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: with these kids. I would do mentorship, and you know,

1153
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: it was kind of like my heart was in that.

1154
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: And every year I'll go back and play, like I

1155
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: I kind of missed, you know that side. I missed

1156
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: working with kids, I missed seeing guys get better. I

1157
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: missed being able to be around young men and share

1158
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: stories and see them grow and mentor them and like

1159
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: that was That's where I lived for. But you know,

1160
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: playing basketball is what I did. You know, special athlete

1161
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: that paid the bills and um my last year uh

1162
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: playing I told my wife before the season, I said, hey,

1163
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: if a place like val Parades that would open up,

1164
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: all go coach college basketball. There had no idea what

1165
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: was going to happen. I just knew Homer Jewel, I

1166
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: knew Bright, I knew kind of how they read their program,

1167
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: and I had so much respect for what they did

1168
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: and the way they did it. Um. I told my

1169
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: wife say, if I was getting the coach and I

1170
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: want to coach there. And the reason I said that

1171
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: because my wife said, hey, you should think should sing

1172
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: about coach in college. I mean she she thought that

1173
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: I'd be good at it, and I was like, yeah, no, never, Um,

1174
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: you away from your family. It's cut the road. It's

1175
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: a crazy business. I said, I'm gonna keep playing basketball

1176
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: and make a lot of money and then retire and

1177
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: go do ministry or do ESPN or something and make

1178
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: a long story short. I mean, Homer jew retires, Brace

1179
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: gets the job, and um, I'm in the I'm in

1180
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: the semifinals in Germany and competing for a championship. And

1181
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: he basically offered me a job during that time, and uh,

1182
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: I had to make a decision once the season is done,

1183
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: do I keep playing? Do I sign this huge contract?

1184
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: I had a contact in all the land, I had

1185
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: some other teams, and you're trying to sign me. My

1186
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: agents said. There were some many teams in the NBA

1187
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: that wanted to bring me in for training camp. With

1188
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: all that happening, I decided to walk away and to

1189
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: start coaching. And that was That was nine years ago. Yeah,

1190
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: I made that decision at twenty in my prime. Did

1191
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: you have Do you have any that that first year? Second? Ye?

1192
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: Do you have any regrets? No? Man, You know, once

1193
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: I started coaching, though, and you know, obviously you know,

1194
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: my first year, we ended up winning the Horizon League

1195
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: and to the n i Q for a mid major

1196
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: at that time, was you know, it's pretty good accomplishment.

1197
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: And my second year, we end up, you know, winning

1198
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: the Horizon League regular season and then winning the tournament

1199
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: going into the tournament, and I just we just started

1200
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: having success. Man, and I recruited some really good players

1201
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: and Alex Peters is a draft pick that was went

1202
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: to Bappo, Um that I got to recruit and it

1203
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: just it kind of I kind of fell in love

1204
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: with it. And funny story though, my second year coaching

1205
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: uh ale Conte, I think the singler was playing with

1206
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: Alekanta at the time and he left much an NBA

1207
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: and Alekante called my agent massive, probably willing to come

1208
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: there and play in the middle of the season, and

1209
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: the contract that they were gonna give me was like

1210
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: six times more than what I was making as a

1211
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: college of basketball coach. My agent, my agent, her brutal,

1212
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: was like, hey, do you want to pass this up?

1213
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: And that was the only time where I thought about it.

1214
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I leave coaching to get back

1215
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: into playing, and um what I did, Man, I was

1216
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: I was. I was invest that I was locked in

1217
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: and I'm happy that I did, because you know, my

1218
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,479
Speaker 1: college coaching career just kind of take off a little bit. Well,

1219
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: you guys go to you guys go to Vandy, you move. Um,

1220
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: of course you land Darius Garland who only plays a

1221
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: handful of games for you. So things were looking great.

1222
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: What what is for for people haven't seen Darius Garland play,

1223
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: because he barely played for you guys at Vandy last year.

1224
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: What's he like, here's the point guard. And I mean,

1225
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: I know it sounds very simple, but you know, there's

1226
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: not many like real point cards out there. I mean,

1227
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: he is a bona fide PG with great fell, great pace,

1228
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: great court vision, can shoot the ball competitive, you know.

1229
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he's one of those guys in practice, he'd

1230
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: do something every day that you're like, wow, he really

1231
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: just made that pass or he really just had that

1232
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,919
Speaker 1: calls over, hit that step back like he or he man,

1233
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: he really just hit that full game point like the

1234
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: kids special. And that's why, you know, we built everything

1235
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: around him, you know. And and um, you know, obviously

1236
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: we have some kids leave because they didn't gonna play

1237
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: a lot, and it was just it was one of

1238
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: those things where like we just we were all in,

1239
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, and and uh and when he got hurt, man,

1240
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: that was a devastating blow because you know, our team,

1241
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: our system was kind of you know, do for him

1242
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: to do a thing. And so I'm happy that he

1243
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: was still able to get drafted an NBA an NBA

1244
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: draft and I think he's just gonna have a tremendous career,

1245
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: and you know, I hope that he can stay healthy

1246
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: because kids special. Yeah. I I was told by some

1247
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: Lakers guys they worked him out and they said it was, uh,

1248
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: he and Lillard are the two most impressive shooting workouts

1249
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: they've had for college guys, college college guards like that.

1250
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: He was just unbelievable. Um, look, you guys go nine,

1251
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: Uh your your a d dies. So the guy who

1252
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: hired Rice dies in the middle of the season. Um,

1253
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: did you know, do you have any sense that he

1254
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: was gonna get fired? You know, we had a feeling. Um,

1255
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: you know it was a rush. I mean our first

1256
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: year there, you know, we end up making it so

1257
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: they tournament and you know no one Pumply would and

1258
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: you know those guys rallied and came together and it

1259
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: was a special special moment man. And you know that

1260
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: first year Andy and we thought after that, you know,

1261
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: whether we might get an extension or anything. It didn't happen,

1262
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: no big deal. But you know the second year, like

1263
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: we finally ran into like the injury bug, Like, yeah,

1264
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, our best player, all that SEC player goes

1265
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: out for the whole season in the middle and right

1266
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: before a conference play, and you know, we struggled. You know,

1267
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: we struggled, you know, with him being gone. You know,

1268
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: he heard a short he can't play. And then we

1269
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: signed this great class and you know, you think to

1270
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: ourselves like, oh man, they've got this great class. We've

1271
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: got a really good point guard. And then five games

1272
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: and he goes out, you know, and there are certain

1273
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: things that as a coach you just can't control. You

1274
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: can't control injuries actually too, your your best player, and

1275
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: then only that your point guard, and uh, you know,

1276
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: it was rough. Man, it was hard. It was the

1277
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: hardest two years of my life in basketball. And you know,

1278
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: obviously when David Williams passes away, it just makes it

1279
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: even harder. And then you know people that you care

1280
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: about because I already cared about him. He was a

1281
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: mental for me. He believed in me. Um the actually

1282
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: gave me a great contract. I had some head coaching opportunities.

1283
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: I end up staying and uh, he really he really

1284
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: took care of me and my family. Um So when

1285
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: he passed away, you know, it was that was a

1286
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: devastating blow. And then we get fired and it was

1287
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: just it was. It was by far the hardest two

1288
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: years of my life. As it retains the basketball I

1289
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: do want to ask I without I want to ask

1290
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: you though about that n c A tournament game because

1291
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: it's forever it's Northwestern's first appearance and their only win.

1292
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: But also you mentioned the best SEC player got hurt.

1293
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: It's Matthew Fisher Davis. He was the one who fouled.

1294
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: He didn't no time and score. Um, what was it

1295
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: really like? A to the game in the locker room?

1296
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: The kids devastated, you know, I can't imagine. What How

1297
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: did you handle it? Who? Who's who talked to him?

1298
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: How do you handle a situation like that? Oh? Man?

1299
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: You love him? Man, you mean he's a player, he's

1300
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: a family and you talked about like you know, Um,

1301
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: you know when you're playing four years, the bonds you

1302
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: have with those guys, you know, now as a coach,

1303
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: I get to have that every year, you know, with

1304
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: the new kids, and so he's he's one of ours,

1305
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's in our folds, you know, and

1306
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: you know you embrace them. You know. It's a mistake.

1307
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: People make mistakes all the time, you know, coaches make mistakes.

1308
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 1: Players make mistakes. No one wants to make a mistake.

1309
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: It just happens. So you know you love him through it. Man.

1310
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: You know, hey, man, guys, you made a tournament where

1311
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: we were right there, we almost won. You know, let's

1312
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: come back and do it again next year. You know,

1313
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: keep your heads up, you know, and you're crying because

1314
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna miss the seniors. You know. The thing is

1315
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: that you won't get some practice. Coach keeps mentors, spend

1316
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: those times, spend time with anymore, you're gonna miss them.

1317
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: So you know, that's what the locker in his life,

1318
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, especially as a coach, because you want to

1319
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: miss those guys. You know, you care about him. You

1320
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: know you've seen, you've seen every day. You're like your sons.

1321
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And that's what it was

1322
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: like in the locker room. A lot of embracing, a

1323
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: lot of encouraging, crying, and a lot of excitement for

1324
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: for the guy to come back and do it again.

1325
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: All right, So you mentioned that you had an unbelievable contracts.

1326
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: You didn't have to take a job this year. You

1327
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: could have spent time with your family. You guys like

1328
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: living in Nashville, although that might have been awkward. Um,

1329
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: Donnie Daniels, longtime assistant, leaves and goes back to Utah,

1330
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: where he actually came from before he went to Gonzaga.

1331
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: So how did it? How did Mark Few approach you?

1332
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: How did it come to me where you're now in

1333
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: assistant Gonzaga. Well, I knew those guys, um for a while.

1334
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 1: I knew Tommy Lloyd. I coached his players on a

1335
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: tours and I thought he thought that did a really

1336
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: good job with his guys. And we were involved in

1337
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: some of those future head coaches events names Sibila has

1338
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: the leadership thing invitation only in Indianapolis, and him and

1339
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: I got to we're invitced to that, so we got

1340
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: to spend time together there, and you know, we just

1341
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of build a relationship through that. And I was

1342
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 1: recruiting a lot of international I was doing a lot

1343
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: of recruiting in Europe, and we would see each other

1344
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: on the recruiting trails and have conversations. So that's really

1345
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: how I kind of got acquainted with Gonzaga through Tommy Lloyd,

1346
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: and then I met Mark Few through him. A bunch

1347
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: of times. We've had some conversations, and um, you know

1348
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: when Donnie Daniels decided he like he was gonna you know,

1349
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: retire and move to like offical positions somewhere like they

1350
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: had a spot. And you know, you're right, Like I mean,

1351
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: I had to look for a job. That was a

1352
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: part of my contract to look for a job. I

1353
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: had to take a job because like me, I had

1354
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: income for you know, you know, three more years. But um,

1355
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 1: you know, Gonzaga was one of those places that you know,

1356
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: it's special and to be able to coach under Hall

1357
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: of Fame coach Mark Few, to be able to you know,

1358
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: coach someone that I respect, Tommy Lloyd, you know in

1359
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: the relationship we built men even Brian Michaelson who was

1360
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: another assistant here man and they do a great job.

1361
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, they really felt like I fit a need

1362
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: for them, you know, with my energy, my youth. You know,

1363
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: I associate coach a vanderbu so like I focus on defense,

1364
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: last some things I can add defensively and help out

1365
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: with and then obviously recruiting, you know, those areas that

1366
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: I love it. And so it was just a good fit.

1367
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: It was a great fit. Man and obviously with Daddy

1368
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 1: Daniels being such a you know, tenior coach and doing

1369
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: a really good job. I ask large shoes to feel.

1370
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: But he's been great man. He's embracing me and just

1371
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: kind of helped me to the process. So it's just

1372
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: a perfect fit for my family and I And you know,

1373
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: there's no way I would have let this opportunity pass up.

1374
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: You mentioned your family, have two kids, wife, and you

1375
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 1: are you're a tried and true Christian. But there's this

1376
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 1: if if you say if people don't know you, and

1377
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: they say Roger pal Jr. Basketball coach, there's for whatever reason,

1378
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of it is how we

1379
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: covered the media, but some of it is just people's perception.

1380
01:08:55,680 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: The thought is that, yeah, everybody's dirty, everybody cheats. Um,

1381
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: what's the reality like for a guy who believes in

1382
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: doing it the right way? And how hard is it

1383
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: to compete at the highest level. You're in the SEC

1384
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: and now you're at Glenzaga, you're trying to recruit top

1385
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: level recruits. How hard is it to do it the

1386
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: right way? Well, first of all, I got three kids.

1387
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: I just had one a new one forgot. I've seen

1388
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: I've seen those pictures. That's right, my bad little little

1389
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: Gabriel was born uh July Knight. But uh, but yeah,

1390
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: my faith is really important to me. And you know

1391
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:30,640
Speaker 1: I'm not perfect. Um. I strived to be christ Like.

1392
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: I tried to strive to be a godly man every day. Um.

1393
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: And you know it's I try to I try to

1394
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: apply that to the way that I coach. I try

1395
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: to apply that to the way I live. And you know,

1396
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: one thing, I never want anyone to say that my

1397
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 1: success came from cheating. I always wanted to be from

1398
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:53,760
Speaker 1: hard work, um, from you know, from relationships, from just

1399
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: being a good guy. And I never any want to

1400
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: do is say he got that done because he cheated.

1401
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 1: And so you know, with that being said, I just

1402
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: don't deal with it. You know, I just do I

1403
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: just do it the right way. And and there are

1404
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: a lot of guys, believe or not, I think that

1405
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: are the same. You know, you hear the guys who

1406
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 1: do things the wrong way, who cheating and sometimes you

1407
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: mean guys, you know, I don't think. I don't think

1408
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 1: guy's blatantly cheat. Sometimes I think it's legitimate accidents. I mean,

1409
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of rule changes, a lot of things

1410
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 1: that come into play that you know, they just don't

1411
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: know about or they forget about. So those I mean,

1412
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: no one's perfect, but blatantly cheating, you know, I just

1413
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: don't deal with it, man, you know, And I just

1414
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 1: I do it the way I know, the way I

1415
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: was taught, the way I learned from bryceon Homer and

1416
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 1: um and obviously here and they do things the right way.

1417
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: And you know, that's all. I know. One thing that

1418
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: made Bill Sell special as a coach shoot, and there's

1419
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: a lot a ton, but I think he related to

1420
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: the players extremely well, like he can get the most

1421
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: out of guys, like like I would have ran through

1422
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: a wall for him, you know, And he's he's had

1423
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: the confidence that made the team feel confident. But at

1424
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: the same time he had that that's fire that we

1425
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 1: make guys play a lot harder. So I thought he

1426
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: just is just the way that he handles his guys,

1427
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: I think for me makes them special and obviously mean

1428
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 1: he goes the game. He's a he's a mastermind. You

1429
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: can't just have one area, and when that many Big Tween,

1430
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: Big twelve championships, you have to have a lot different

1431
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: areas you're good at. But managing players personalities, getting the

1432
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: most of guys. I think it's what separated him. Bruce Weber,

1433
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 1: same question. Bruce was a great teacher. Um. You know,

1434
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: he he was able to teach the game and and

1435
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 1: make it simple for us to go out nashqu h.

1436
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: He's one of the best. He's one of the best

1437
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: teaching coaches that I played for. UM. You know, and

1438
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: he had a he had a he had a really

1439
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: good way of related to the guys too. UM. But

1440
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: he just he just made it simple for us. And

1441
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: I think that's why he fits so well with you know,

1442
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: our team, because he just broke it down. And it's

1443
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: funny because we played against them, UM at the end

1444
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: of up, I got to coach against him, and UM,

1445
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: you know, I spent a lot of times, you know,

1446
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: going over what they did and and just you know,

1447
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 1: their schemes, their offense and stuff. And you know, he's

1448
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: a great coach. He makes great adjustments in games. And

1449
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, I've coached against a lot of guys over

1450
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: the last you know, nine years, and he's one that

1451
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: stood out, you know, just kind of how you know,

1452
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: he makes the citizen games and how he comes back

1453
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: when you know, we run a play we get to score,

1454
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: where he runs the next time down to kind of

1455
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 1: stop the momentum. It was pretty cool. The best thing

1456
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: about Bryce Shrew Bryce Man. I think Bryce is probably

1457
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 1: one of the best offensive coaches out there. Uh, he's

1458
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: a master mind when it comes to getting guys and

1459
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: positions to do well, taking a team and totally changing

1460
01:12:55,040 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: set schemes to fit players personalities and players skills. And

1461
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: he does a great job of getting most all of

1462
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: those guys as well. You know, he's he's very detail

1463
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 1: oriented and um, you know, and that's something that I've learned,

1464
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, because like I was kind of was more

1465
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 1: of the defensive side, but just watching him over the years,

1466
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, his play calling and um, just the way

1467
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 1: he teaches the game. It was fun to see. And

1468
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: and he's he's a basketball and cyclopedia man, he basketball

1469
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: runs through his bangs. I mean Scott Drew, Homer Drew,

1470
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean that that family knows the game of basketball,

1471
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 1: and um, you know, it was just such a blessing.

1472
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: It was him for eight years and even if they

1473
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: were really close friends. Then last thing you mentioned that

1474
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: you've you've been the defensive guy. When people prepare for

1475
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 1: your style of defense. What is it that is unique

1476
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: or different from others? Um, you know, I think, um,

1477
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things that we did.

1478
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 1: I think at at Vanderbilt him that thought all that,

1479
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, really made teams really prepare for us. Um.

1480
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: I want to give too much information because someone hears

1481
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 1: about it. I don't want them to get my skin.

1482
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 1: But you know, we get after it. We love man

1483
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,679
Speaker 1: and man defense, I love I love gaps gaps defense,

1484
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: protecting the paint, making guys shoot contested contested two point

1485
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 1: jump shots. And then we did a really good job

1486
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: of like you know, trapping the post. You know, that

1487
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 1: was something that you know, I think a lot of

1488
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: teams UM had to prepare for for us and when

1489
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,480
Speaker 1: we could turn over the turnover you know, and um,

1490
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: those are pretty much from of our skins that I

1491
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 1: think separate us and uh and that there's one a

1492
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: lot of games, especially a ALFO out of games. Yeah,

1493
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 1: well listen and our first year, our first year avandable

1494
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: listen to. The weird thing about trapping the post is

1495
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, like your team in Illinois one of the

1496
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: first to play with very limited post play, right, and uh,

1497
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 1: so that the idea when when I played in college,

1498
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: used to post double post to post. But now, I mean,

1499
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: how many teams will play with with two bigs, Very

1500
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: very very few, So you have to kind of change

1501
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,799
Speaker 1: the rotations, and defense continues to evolves, the offense continues

1502
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: to evolve evolve as well. Hey, I've I've already taken

1503
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: up way too much of your time, obviously. I'm so

1504
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 1: happy you've landed at a great place, and I can't

1505
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 1: wait to hear what happens next. The meantime, we'll watch

1506
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: the Zags this year, and I can't wait to hear

1507
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 1: your thoughts on your new squad as you guys start

1508
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: to get after. Appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much.

1509
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 1: Now I appreciate you to be sure to catch live

1510
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 1: editions of The Doug dot Leap Show weekdays at noon

1511
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 1: Eastern three pm Pacific. My thanks to Roger Powell Jr.

1512
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 1: For joining us, and uh for the Gonzaga coaching staff

1513
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 1: for letting him come on. Make sure you tell a friend, download, subscribe,

1514
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: and rate. I oh yeah, by the way, check out

1515
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: The Doug got Lap Show every day three to six

1516
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: eactern time on Fox Sports Radio twelve to three Pacific time.

1517
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: Also in the I Heart Radio app. We're on the

1518
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: Dan Patrick channel on Sirious XM satellite radio, or you

1519
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: can just download that podcast. But tell a friend and

1520
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 1: thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is

1521
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: all Bolt