Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Calls with Dean Blandino, a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. All Right, welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Good Calls. I'm Dean Blandino. As always, I'm joined by
Speaker 1: Travis Hansen. That's what I'm in. You're you're second and
Speaker 1: more awkward every week and trying. You're you're like a
Speaker 1: pretty personal guy, but you put a microphone in front
Speaker 1: of You're like, hey, what's going on? But I just
Speaker 1: don't want to step on you. And our audio guy,
Speaker 1: Joe Madrid, who who is slowly but surely becoming the
Speaker 1: m v P of the show, the audio sounding crisper
Speaker 1: and crisper each week. This is a This is a compliment.
Speaker 1: I don't give many as as these guys know, and
Speaker 1: I'm giving Joe a compliment. You're getting a lot better, man.
Speaker 1: I feel more and more appreciate. That's great. Okay, moving on,
Speaker 1: So alright, great show. We're gonna talk about a lot
Speaker 1: NFL Week twelve already, it's crazy Thanksgiving. We got um,
Speaker 1: We've got a guest appearance by Amy Trask, Amy who
Speaker 1: do you know what Amy's nickname is? By Raiders fans,
Speaker 1: does either you guys know we're bringing on the Princess
Speaker 1: of Darkness. How cool is how cool is that we're
Speaker 1: talking nicknames? Maybe so Amy will be joining us. But
Speaker 1: let's get into it. Let's get into a subject that
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't think we'd we'd be talking about,
Speaker 1: but but controversy in the and when I was at
Speaker 1: the NFL, and here's the deal, and everybody feels this
Speaker 1: way at the league office. Every game there's twine and
Speaker 1: fifty six regular season games, and every game counts the same, Okay,
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is whether it's officiating, whether it's broadcasting, whoever,
Speaker 1: when you have a game like Cowboys Patriots, okay, on
Speaker 1: a national audience of the country is watching Cowboys Patriots
Speaker 1: to the biggest fan bases. You're talking about, you want
Speaker 1: that game to go smoothly from officiating perspective, from everything.
Speaker 1: You want that game to go smoothly. Not that the
Speaker 1: the other game. And I'm not gonna I don't want
Speaker 1: to like use names of teams, but the the three
Speaker 1: and eight team versus the two and nine team in
Speaker 1: the early window, you're okay. Not you don't want an
Speaker 1: officiating mistake ever, but you're okay if it happened in
Speaker 1: that game. You don't have as many because you don't
Speaker 1: have as many eyeballs, and it's not going to be
Speaker 1: as controversial. So what happens Cowboys Patriots? What did we
Speaker 1: have today? Nine of the of the country watching the game.
Speaker 1: We have controversy involving tripping. Imagine you've got some good
Speaker 1: tweets about tripping of all the things. And if I
Speaker 1: get one more tweet with that, wasn't tripping. These refs
Speaker 1: are tripping, Like if I have one more time, all right,
Speaker 1: we get it. It's alright, whatever, Yeah, the first sixteen times,
Speaker 1: it's good tripping. Okay. So you have a call early
Speaker 1: in the game in the first quarter on Tyron Smith.
Speaker 1: That's again it's it's this is it's a hard game
Speaker 1: to officiate, right, but the umpire in this game calls
Speaker 1: tripping on Tyron Smith early. When you when you talk
Speaker 1: about coverage, you have a referee and you have an
Speaker 1: umpire in the offensive backfield. The referee is going to
Speaker 1: be on the throwing hand side of the right hand
Speaker 1: typically the right hand side of of the quarterback. The
Speaker 1: umpire opposite up us at the referee and they each
Speaker 1: take their side of the line of scrimmage. On passing
Speaker 1: place okay, and they work, they work inside out and
Speaker 1: and in instance instance the umpire called tripping. It wasn't tripping.
Speaker 1: It was It was kind of a double team block
Speaker 1: Smith had. It was almost as if, just by circumstance
Speaker 1: he turned his leg, was there the defender, they made contact.
Speaker 1: To me, it wasn't tripping. First quarter, not that big
Speaker 1: a deal. But later in the game, fourth quarter, Cowboys
Speaker 1: are behind by four. They're driving to try to take
Speaker 1: the lead, and uh and it's a third down play
Speaker 1: um and they complete a pass us for a first down,
Speaker 1: and we get another trip, this time on Travis Frederick
Speaker 1: in the middle of the line. This one's probably a
Speaker 1: little closer, but still to me, it's not tripping. Tripping
Speaker 1: is an intentional act tripping. What you want to see
Speaker 1: for a trip is more of the player lifting his leg.
Speaker 1: This was again Frederick turning the legs make contact. There
Speaker 1: is certainly contact with the knee and the defender. The
Speaker 1: defender goes to the ground. So I understand in the
Speaker 1: moment in real time the umpire seeing that, processing it
Speaker 1: and calling the foul. But it's not when you look
Speaker 1: at it again, a trip is a lifting of the leg.
Speaker 1: It's an intentional act. You can have a leg whip,
Speaker 1: which is more of a strike which you're whipping the leg.
Speaker 1: That was not the case, and I certainly didn't see
Speaker 1: him lift the leg intentionally to trip the defender and
Speaker 1: then didn't like the call. Ends up being a pretty
Speaker 1: big call because then now you go from first and
Speaker 1: ten to third and eleven. They don't convert. You have
Speaker 1: a big overturned They had just picked it up on yeah,
Speaker 1: they picked it up and and then you get a
Speaker 1: fourth down play a past Marii Cooper that was ruled
Speaker 1: complete on the field, and to the consternation of Cowboys
Speaker 1: fans everywhere, it was overturned and replay, which again we
Speaker 1: don't want to bring back bad memories, but that has
Speaker 1: happened before I've been involved, and maybe could when I
Speaker 1: watched that second one, I think you could have made
Speaker 1: a maybe a light argument that there was a hole
Speaker 1: in seventy seven. What do you think, you know again
Speaker 1: with holding, holding again is a very subjective call. Holding,
Speaker 1: You know, maybe there's a left arm and extension to
Speaker 1: the left arm. I'd want to see more restriction. I'd
Speaker 1: want to see something more of a grab and a restriction.
Speaker 1: In that instance, I think the defender went to the
Speaker 1: ground because the legs did make contact, But I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was a hole. I didn't think it was
Speaker 1: a trip. It's obviously a big call. Not again, not
Speaker 1: the reason the Cowboys lost the game, but it's it
Speaker 1: has an impact. And and when you see very rarely
Speaker 1: you see tripping calls. If if you have twenty tripping
Speaker 1: calls all year, that's a lot, and so to see
Speaker 1: two in one game, um is an outlier. And then
Speaker 1: you have one official that's looking at it. And that's
Speaker 1: where you know, if it were me in that position,
Speaker 1: if I was ahead of officiating, you know you're looking
Speaker 1: at that official. You're gonna show him those two plays.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get that that officials perspective. Okay, what did
Speaker 1: he see to make him think that was a trip?
Speaker 1: And you kind of work work it that way, and
Speaker 1: then you make sure you share that with the rest
Speaker 1: of your staff to say either this is or this
Speaker 1: isn't tripping and we we we don't want this call
Speaker 1: going forward, or we do want this call going forward
Speaker 1: and uh, and again it's just it's an interesting call.
Speaker 1: And then there was you know there was an interesting
Speaker 1: situation at the end of the game with the Patriots
Speaker 1: are trying to run out the clock and there was
Speaker 1: five seconds on the clock. Brady drops back. It's fourth
Speaker 1: down place. So this is something that is coached and
Speaker 1: you talk to teams about this, where the quarterback can
Speaker 1: just drop back, throw the ball out of bounds and
Speaker 1: try to take as much time off the clock as necessary.
Speaker 1: And uh, and it's not it's not grounding if the
Speaker 1: quarterback isn't under pressure, even though he throws it from
Speaker 1: the pocket and uh, and the all you know, goes
Speaker 1: out of bounds. It's really just a just kind of
Speaker 1: an airmail type throw. But it did look like and
Speaker 1: this would have been it would have been more, it
Speaker 1: would have been more eyebrow raising have this game been
Speaker 1: in Dallas. It felt like that last second kind of
Speaker 1: just kind of just hung on a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it felt like it was. And when you talk about
Speaker 1: the ball, you know, when is the play over, right,
Speaker 1: the ball crossing the sideline or the ball touching something
Speaker 1: you you really you look for a signal the clock
Speaker 1: operators looking for a signal from the official or clear
Speaker 1: indicator that the play is over. The ball really touching
Speaker 1: something out of bounds is the indicator that they use.
Speaker 1: And uh, and it felt like clocks should have expired
Speaker 1: and so Dallas did end up getting one play it
Speaker 1: was inconsequential. They didn't do anything um on that So
Speaker 1: interesting tripping. Yeah, those tripping calls to me, I I
Speaker 1: didn't really like them either. Like the first one with
Speaker 1: with Tyron Smith is he's getting hit and it almost
Speaker 1: looks like he's trying to brace himself. He's had lower
Speaker 1: body injuries, ankles, knee's and he's just it looks like
Speaker 1: he's just trying to get out of the way to
Speaker 1: keep from from getting stepped on or hit. And then
Speaker 1: the second one, it seemed like the Travis Frederick he
Speaker 1: took the hit on with his shoulder first and initial
Speaker 1: contact came there. You think if the initial contact comes
Speaker 1: with the leg for the trip, that, yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: you want to see an overt act, you really do.
Speaker 1: You want to see a clear lifting of the leg
Speaker 1: that's gonna that's gonna impede the defender. And I just
Speaker 1: didn't think, Again, these are judgment calls, and listen, Cowboys fan,
Speaker 1: Dean's on your side, on your side. I think my
Speaker 1: question is is there a hashtag yet don't trip hashtag
Speaker 1: don't trip trip gate, I don't, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: trip and moving on putting it to bed. The league
Speaker 1: did announce fines for Pittsburgh Cleveland, uh and significant fines
Speaker 1: and just in terms of total number, because you had
Speaker 1: so many players, Travis, I think, what was it, three players?
Speaker 1: Thirty three players. There's there's a number. There's a fine
Speaker 1: for for fighting, for being in the fight area, So
Speaker 1: thirty three players. Mason Rudolph was the he was the top.
Speaker 1: He was the winner in terms of numbers. He got
Speaker 1: fifty grand and obviously, look and one of the things, look,
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about it a little bit, is that
Speaker 1: now it came out that that in his appeal, Myles
Speaker 1: Garrett had had said that that Mason Rudolph used obviously
Speaker 1: a racial slur, and that's what that's what led him
Speaker 1: to hitting Rudolph with the helmet. And there are so
Speaker 1: many things we talked to our officials, used to talk
Speaker 1: to our officials all the time. There's so many things
Speaker 1: that are said on the field. And you know, the
Speaker 1: league wanted to put in I remember years ago they
Speaker 1: wanted to curb the use of you know, the racial
Speaker 1: slurs or if there's anything involving sexual orientation, things like that,
Speaker 1: and it became very difficult for the officials to differentiate
Speaker 1: between what was said, you know, what is said between
Speaker 1: two players, that is who're saying it. It's a pile,
Speaker 1: is it? Is it kind of the normal trash talk
Speaker 1: that goes is on that we all know happens in
Speaker 1: every sport. Or when does it cross that line from
Speaker 1: from normal trash talk to something that is truly truly
Speaker 1: unsportsmanlike and uncalled for? And I think that's something I
Speaker 1: would show the league in there in there in their
Speaker 1: kind of investigation, for lack of a better term, you know,
Speaker 1: it is looking for audio talking to anyone that would
Speaker 1: include the officials. I was involved in situations where an
Speaker 1: official was accused of saying something to a player and
Speaker 1: you had to interview players and talk about who was
Speaker 1: in the area and did anybody hear anything. So it's
Speaker 1: just it's a tough tough deal to try to prove
Speaker 1: or disprove something that's said on the football field. And uh,
Speaker 1: and so again, hopefully this thing goes away and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the fines are out Garrett's suspension was upheld. Uh.
Speaker 1: Pouncey suspension was reduced from three games to two games.
Speaker 1: And uh, and we'll kind of see if there's any
Speaker 1: any further fallout. Um, let's move on to our favorite
Speaker 1: subject past an inference review. And and Travis, you had
Speaker 1: a couple of things. There were a couple of comments
Speaker 1: going into the week from some some head coaches. Vic
Speaker 1: Fangio from the Broncos and Sean Payton of the Saints.
Speaker 1: What what did Vic have to say last Monday? He said,
Speaker 1: it's gonna have to be a five car pilot, I
Speaker 1: guess for them to overturn something. Yeah, so you know,
Speaker 1: and Vic and and he's referring you to there were
Speaker 1: there were two plays at the end of their game
Speaker 1: against the Vikings. There was a play um at the
Speaker 1: end of the game where it looked like there might
Speaker 1: have been fouls on both players past inference on the
Speaker 1: offensive push off and then a grab by the defender
Speaker 1: which would have led to if they were both called,
Speaker 1: would have led to off setting penalties and replaying the down.
Speaker 1: Denver's obviously trying to come back and and and get
Speaker 1: a get a score. At the end of the game.
Speaker 1: There was a plate two plays earlier where the defender
Speaker 1: clearly grabbed the Broncos receiver's face mask with the ball
Speaker 1: in the air. The game was not stopped, It was
Speaker 1: under two minutes, the game was not stopped. There was
Speaker 1: no foul added in replay. So I understand Vic's frustration. UM,
Speaker 1: And but we're gonna talk about how how from last
Speaker 1: week to this week it may have gone from a
Speaker 1: five car pile up to a little bit of a
Speaker 1: fender bender in terms of the standard. UM. But Sean
Speaker 1: Payton had some very interesting comments to talk about the process,
Speaker 1: so p I reviewed. He said this on Friday, said,
Speaker 1: I think it's a challenge for al al rivern Um,
Speaker 1: it's a challenge for New York when we go to
Speaker 1: New York. And quite honestly, I think the numbers looking
Speaker 1: at those plays from a consistency standpoint need to be
Speaker 1: It's hard to be singular and singular in that position.
Speaker 1: It's hard for one person, Payton said. He said Thursday night,
Speaker 1: when coaches me he's talking about his team on a
Speaker 1: phase of a game, you know there's going to be
Speaker 1: four or five voices that can have thoughts and opinions
Speaker 1: on the decision, not one person, and I think al
Speaker 1: does a great job, and yet I think the number
Speaker 1: needs to be more like three or five. It's a
Speaker 1: it's an interesting thought and concept. So when when replay
Speaker 1: went to when I was at the NFL, two thousand
Speaker 1: fourteen was the first year we were involved in replay decisions,
Speaker 1: and the theory you was, Okay, you have seventeen different
Speaker 1: officiating crews, and you have seventeen different replay officials, and
Speaker 1: they may look at the same play a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: And we would see it every week because we'd be
Speaker 1: in the command center. We would see a call overturned
Speaker 1: in Seattle, UM with with less evidence than a call
Speaker 1: not overturned in Baltimore with more evidence. So you were
Speaker 1: trying to create a consistent a process that was consistent
Speaker 1: in terms of decision making. So you you bring in
Speaker 1: less people and you say, Okay, there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: small group of people in New York that are gonna
Speaker 1: make these decisions or be involved at that time, be
Speaker 1: involved with the referee in these decisions. In theory, you're
Speaker 1: going to create greater consistency by reducing the number of
Speaker 1: people making the decisions. UM. I think what what Shaun
Speaker 1: is saying is it's a tremendous burden on one person,
Speaker 1: and it is, it really is. And you're talking about
Speaker 1: one person having to look at all of these plays
Speaker 1: and try to adjudicate these plays consistently, and it's hard.
Speaker 1: And so I would agree that maybe it is two
Speaker 1: to three people that are trained, that are taught, that
Speaker 1: that understand what the framework is and understand what the
Speaker 1: standards are and can make those decisions, because I know
Speaker 1: I was in that role and that's a very difficult
Speaker 1: job and always doing the best job he can. He's
Speaker 1: doing a good job, but there's so much on his plate.
Speaker 1: There's so much on his plate, and it's hard to
Speaker 1: do all of those things because you're always you always
Speaker 1: feel like in that role, like you're putting out on
Speaker 1: another fire, You're dealing with another controversy you're dealing with
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine Al having to deal with past
Speaker 1: interference review and all of the scrutiny and everything else.
Speaker 1: But guess what, there's eighteen billion other things that he's
Speaker 1: got to deal with and it's really hard. And I
Speaker 1: think Sean might be honest something. I know, three guys
Speaker 1: at this table right here, that might be great at it, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys are really good. But let's let's
Speaker 1: move to what happened on Sunday where I really feel
Speaker 1: like the standard the standard has changed, at least from
Speaker 1: a perspective of the call it's not made on the field,
Speaker 1: because going into the week, we we had seventy one reviews,
Speaker 1: twelve reversals, right, So doing the maths to carry the
Speaker 1: one six with sixteen nine okay, sixteen nine percent of
Speaker 1: the of the reviews are being overturned. On Sunday there
Speaker 1: were there were unofficially six reviews for past inference and
Speaker 1: three were overturned. So let me do the math from
Speaker 1: that's fifty. Okay, that's fifty. That's that's a a much
Speaker 1: bigger number. And we saw three calls get overturned. We
Speaker 1: saw a touchdown get taken back in the Jets Raiders
Speaker 1: game on a on an O p I that was
Speaker 1: added in replay. And what's significant about that is it
Speaker 1: was ruled a touchdown, so it had to be initiated
Speaker 1: by the booth. And we've seen calls, we've seen non
Speaker 1: calls in automatic review situations not stopped for what was
Speaker 1: probably just as much contact or maybe even more contact
Speaker 1: than that play. And and it was and I think
Speaker 1: it is offensive past inference by the letter of the rule,
Speaker 1: but it's not to the standard of what we've established
Speaker 1: going into the week. Then you had you had another
Speaker 1: call that was added in the Dolphins Browns game, again
Speaker 1: stopped inside of two minutes. And so you have a
Speaker 1: replay official. This isn't a coach challenging where they're forced
Speaker 1: to look at it. This is the replay official deciding
Speaker 1: in New York deciding to stop it. And it was
Speaker 1: past inference um and it was I think it was
Speaker 1: Odell Beckham that got it, that got contacted, and that
Speaker 1: was overturned and added past an inference. And if you
Speaker 1: compare that play to Golden tape play Giants Patriots, if
Speaker 1: you compare that too, even earlier in the year, there
Speaker 1: was a play involving Richard Sherman and Mike Evans. There
Speaker 1: there was blocking down field with Sammy Watkins. If you
Speaker 1: compare those plays that weren't overturned to this one, I
Speaker 1: think anyone looking at it would say those are fouls.
Speaker 1: This one is questionable. And then you had a could
Speaker 1: have been a really big call in the Carolina New
Speaker 1: Orleans game where not called on the field, challenged by
Speaker 1: the Panthers and created in replay for past inferience, and
Speaker 1: it is past interferiance, but again, is it up to
Speaker 1: that standard? So we saw I think we've seen a
Speaker 1: shift and there I know there well, I would say,
Speaker 1: why do you think that? I know there was a
Speaker 1: call this week between the Competition Committee. I don't know who,
Speaker 1: but at least one member of the Competition Committee and
Speaker 1: the officiating group in New York. There was a call
Speaker 1: and the main topic was past an inferrance review. And
Speaker 1: so putting two and two together, knowing there was a
Speaker 1: call and just seeing the result of the reviews on
Speaker 1: Sunday to meet, that tells me that the bar the
Speaker 1: needle has moved, at least when it comes to the
Speaker 1: call not made on the field. And this is the concern.
Speaker 1: And I think when you it's been a moving target
Speaker 1: all year and it feels like it's moved again. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is not necessarily the wrong direction, right,
Speaker 1: but again, it's hard when you're you're moving it from
Speaker 1: week to week or from quarter of the season to
Speaker 1: quarter of the season, it's hard for clubs to get
Speaker 1: a handle on it. Is it similar to what we
Speaker 1: saw earlier in this season when they had that conference calling.
Speaker 1: Teams weren't alerted of this that there was gonna be
Speaker 1: it was offensive holding. You know, we saw that, we
Speaker 1: saw that early in early in the season. And I
Speaker 1: think you know in all of this, and I know,
Speaker 1: and I know coach Peyton. I think Shawn said something
Speaker 1: after the game, and I think that he had some
Speaker 1: comments about um and and it definitely definitely is related
Speaker 1: to the past inference call that was they said it
Speaker 1: wasn't our best game, it wasn't their best game, and
Speaker 1: quite honestly, it wasn't New York's best game. When they
Speaker 1: change like how they they're going to rule, they let
Speaker 1: the coaches know, hey, we're gonna tighten up or we're
Speaker 1: gonna loosen up a little bit on that stuff. They
Speaker 1: should And that's the thing, if you you know, when
Speaker 1: I was at the League office and and before that,
Speaker 1: you know Pereira and and Carl Johnson before me, you
Speaker 1: would put out videos and so if there was something
Speaker 1: significant a point of emphasis, you know, I would do
Speaker 1: a tape that would go out to the clubs. Every Thursday,
Speaker 1: and it would highlight things here here's typically it would
Speaker 1: be anything from the previous week that needed explanation and
Speaker 1: or something that might have been controversial or something that
Speaker 1: was rules related that I felt the clubs could benefit from.
Speaker 1: And then it was something if we were going to
Speaker 1: emphasize something or we were going to and you don't
Speaker 1: have changes very often, but if something was going to change,
Speaker 1: you would put it on that tape and make sure
Speaker 1: the clubs understood that that here's we were doing this,
Speaker 1: We're gonna be doing something a little bit different, and
Speaker 1: so you would hope that the clubs are notified of that.
Speaker 1: And again, because these are these are challenges that are
Speaker 1: tied to time outs, and they're limited and they're important.
Speaker 1: And so do we know stats on how many were challenged,
Speaker 1: because I would think if they knew that it was
Speaker 1: gonna they were gonna loosen up on it, then there
Speaker 1: would be more challenged. Well, there wasn't. So when you
Speaker 1: look at the number of of challenges, I have to
Speaker 1: go back and look this week. I don't think there
Speaker 1: weren't significantly more challenges this week than in previous weeks.
Speaker 1: We just know that there were three overturns this week,
Speaker 1: which is a high number I think might be. I
Speaker 1: don't think we've had more than three and during any
Speaker 1: other week, and and so I don't feel like there
Speaker 1: were a lot more. I'd be I'd be willing to
Speaker 1: bet next week it's gonna go up. That's the key.
Speaker 1: If once you see that, and if there is any
Speaker 1: communication with the clubs, then then now as a club,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, hey, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: challenge more because we have a better chance of winning
Speaker 1: these is gonna be that rent Arians is just gonna
Speaker 1: be like flinging it. Do you think you're seeing this
Speaker 1: now because these games are a little bit more significant
Speaker 1: now as you get into the late later part of
Speaker 1: the season, the last quarter of the season. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a variety of things. Could be you know, you you
Speaker 1: you obviously you never you don't. It's not ideal to
Speaker 1: have calls in the middle of the season and change things.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it never happens, but it's just
Speaker 1: not ideal because because to say that the teams were
Speaker 1: playing under a standard in week three that was different
Speaker 1: than the standard in Week twelve, that's tough. If I'm
Speaker 1: a team and a call that that didn't get overturned
Speaker 1: in week three would have gotten overturned in this new standard,
Speaker 1: and that impacted my game, I'm gonna be I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be passed. So so I have a question. Somebody texted me,
Speaker 1: because when you know Dean, you become Dean. So everybody
Speaker 1: who has a rule of football question they text me,
Speaker 1: and then I have that. So if coaches are out
Speaker 1: of challenge, why don't they take the red flag away
Speaker 1: from them so they don't get the penalty. There should
Speaker 1: be someone on the team that takes it, so they do.
Speaker 1: So when the when that's a good question. Um, so
Speaker 1: the coach, when the coaches either out of challenges or
Speaker 1: at the two minute warning, the refe officials will go
Speaker 1: over to the to the coaches. They coach, you can't
Speaker 1: challenge anymore, you gotta put the red flag away. So
Speaker 1: the official doesn't take the red flag from them, but
Speaker 1: the officials tell them you're out of challenges or it's
Speaker 1: two minute warning, you can't challenge. You gotta put the
Speaker 1: challenge flag away. And so every coach, Now every coach
Speaker 1: knows after the two minute warning they can't throw the
Speaker 1: red flag. So if they do, they're doing it for
Speaker 1: a reason. Um, there are some unusual situations. We had
Speaker 1: one a couple weeks ago with the Rams where it
Speaker 1: was an interception that was overturned because of a penalty.
Speaker 1: That's a new rule, a little bit unusual. Coach mc McVeigh,
Speaker 1: through the flag. I get that, but most coaches, every
Speaker 1: coach knows once we get to two minute warning and
Speaker 1: officials go and tell them, they don't, they don't take
Speaker 1: the red flag. Should coach he should take the flag?
Speaker 1: Somebody has Yeah, if there's any any other head coaches
Speaker 1: out there, if you need a flagtaker, Joe is good
Speaker 1: at taking things and losing them. Yeah, exactly. Don't give
Speaker 1: him the red flag because he might lose like he
Speaker 1: lost my a T M card a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Um that I just got a new one back and
Speaker 1: had to do, you know, moving along a couple of
Speaker 1: places that had had like automatic payment coming out. So
Speaker 1: if my lights go off, will know why. Um, he
Speaker 1: got it, buddy. You know, I've got a good story
Speaker 1: about the league meeting, let's say, but we should probably
Speaker 1: go to break. Can we get that story after the break? No,
Speaker 1: after the break, We're gonna talk to the Princess of Darkness,
Speaker 1: Amy Trask. Maybe maybe later we'll talk about that league
Speaker 1: meeting story. Amy Trash. Next on Good Calls. All right,
Speaker 1: we're back on Good Calls. I am so excited to
Speaker 1: introduce our guest this week. She is a football analyst
Speaker 1: for CBS Sports and author. You negotiate like a girl,
Speaker 1: chairman of the board for Big Three Basketball, former CEO
Speaker 1: of the Oakland Raiders, the Princess of Darkness herself, Amy Trask. Amy,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me, and I want
Speaker 1: to I want to ask you a question. You are
Speaker 1: known as the Princess of Darkness amongst Raider fans, which
Speaker 1: I think is the coolest nickname. How did you get
Speaker 1: that me? Well, thanks for inviting me to join you.
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to do so, and it is the coolest
Speaker 1: nickname ever. And it was not intended as a compliment.
Speaker 1: Mike Silver, who at the time was with Sports Illustrated,
Speaker 1: wrote a feature and in it he quoted some anonymous
Speaker 1: sources within the NFL. I don't remember whether they were
Speaker 1: UH team owners or team executives or a combination, but
Speaker 1: they said in a not complimentary manner that behind my
Speaker 1: back they referred to me as the Princess of Darkness. Well,
Speaker 1: what wasn't intended as a compliment, I accepted and embraced
Speaker 1: as a compliment, as did Rader Nation. We all thought
Speaker 1: it was terrific and we we claimed it. So since
Speaker 1: then I've been the Princess of Darkness. And I hope
Speaker 1: right now that you're just a little bit afraid, Dean.
Speaker 1: I am always. I'm always a little bit maybe not afraid,
Speaker 1: but intimidated and in awe of what of what you've accomplished.
Speaker 1: And I love the fact and what better. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's the Raiders. How how great is the Princess of
Speaker 1: Darkness Raiders? To me, it's it's awesome. And uh so
Speaker 1: you you were you grew up in l A. You
Speaker 1: were a Raiders fan, and then and then when they
Speaker 1: came back to l A kind of was in line.
Speaker 1: You were at law school, you interned in the legal department,
Speaker 1: then went back and uh and you were the CEO
Speaker 1: in until you you retired in two thousand thirteen. And
Speaker 1: you've done so many things. I mean, I just saw
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand nineteen, you were named one of
Speaker 1: the hundred greatest game changers in NFL history. And I
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about that experience, you know,
Speaker 1: being in that being in a in a male dominated
Speaker 1: industry like football. And I read your book, and I
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about your experiences with
Speaker 1: the Raiders. UM. What was that like? Just breaking in
Speaker 1: and and and how did you how did you manage well?
Speaker 1: I I you noted it. I grew up in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: but I did my college up in northern California. I
Speaker 1: was at Berkeley and fell in love with everything about
Speaker 1: the Raider organization when I was just up the freeway,
Speaker 1: so to speak, up the road at cal Uh. That
Speaker 1: was when the Raiders were there. And when I came
Speaker 1: down to Los Angeles for grad school. When I returned
Speaker 1: home to Los Angeles for grad school is when the
Speaker 1: team relocated. And I thought, wow, isn't that my great fortune?
Speaker 1: My team's coming with me. And I know that that
Speaker 1: did not resonate well when the team left. I wasn't
Speaker 1: with the organization when Al moved it from Oakland and
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. UM, But when I was in grad school
Speaker 1: down here, picked up the phone called the organization and
Speaker 1: and asked about doing an internship and what what attracted
Speaker 1: me to the organization. I loved football from the time
Speaker 1: I was a kid. What attracted me to the Raiders
Speaker 1: in particular, was everything about the organization resonated with me.
Speaker 1: Al would hire people that other organizations would label behavior problems,
Speaker 1: and having been labeled the behavior problem when I was
Speaker 1: in kindergarten, that struck a chord with me. And Al
Speaker 1: gave people second and third and fourth chances, and I
Speaker 1: was given a lot of chances. And it's just everything
Speaker 1: about the organization. And you touched upon gender. You know
Speaker 1: there will be people listening to your terrific podcast who
Speaker 1: liked the Raiders and liked Al Davis and people who
Speaker 1: hated the Raiders or still hate them and hated Al Davis.
Speaker 1: But if everyone is being intellectually honest about it, he
Speaker 1: deserves so much credit for hiring without regard to race, gender, ethnicity,
Speaker 1: or any other individuality which has no bearing on whether
Speaker 1: someone can do a job. And I thought I worked
Speaker 1: with Art Shell when Art was at the League office,
Speaker 1: and he spoke so highly of Al Davis. I never
Speaker 1: I never had the opportunity to meet Al. I I've
Speaker 1: met Mark on on numerous occasions and had conversations with him.
Speaker 1: But I know Art spoke so highly about Davis and
Speaker 1: you talk about that, you know, giving people a chance
Speaker 1: and and and that. What what was it like to
Speaker 1: work for Al? It was the opportunity of a lifetime.
Speaker 1: And you know, of course Al hired Tom Flores and
Speaker 1: I'm listening this only chronologically. He's hired Tom um and
Speaker 1: then he hired me uh in the mid eighties. And
Speaker 1: the reason I note that is, think about that, Dean,
Speaker 1: we're talking now in in the mid two and we
Speaker 1: started talking about it, I don't know, maybe a little earlier,
Speaker 1: maybe a little later the mid part of this block
Speaker 1: of time, UM about women in sports. But in the
Speaker 1: mid eighties we weren't talking about that. And then he
Speaker 1: hired Art Shell and without and I say this with
Speaker 1: a big smile on my face, not only did he
Speaker 1: hire without regard to race, gender, ethnicity, uh, he fired
Speaker 1: with out regard to those things. And he cussed a
Speaker 1: people without regard to those individualities, which, as I said,
Speaker 1: have no bearing on whether we can do a job.
Speaker 1: The biggest misconception about Alan, this goes to the heart
Speaker 1: of your question about working for him. The biggest misconception
Speaker 1: is that he wouldn't tolerate anyone who disagreed with him,
Speaker 1: because if that were the case, I would have been
Speaker 1: fired about two weeks into my job. No, you're not disagreeable.
Speaker 1: Never I I disagree agreeably, but I do disagree when
Speaker 1: I wish to disagree, and I did. Two weeks into
Speaker 1: my job, I disagreed with him and we had a loud,
Speaker 1: loud discussion. He yelled, I yelled, We yelled. I don't
Speaker 1: have a dainty voice under the best of circumstances. And
Speaker 1: you know, after we've been going out one another for
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know quite a while. He looked
Speaker 1: at me and he said, oh, oh, I got you.
Speaker 1: I got it, and we moved right on. He understood
Speaker 1: the point I was making and what I learned right
Speaker 1: then two weeks into my job. Of course, you can
Speaker 1: disagree with him, but if you're going to do so,
Speaker 1: you're gonna come armed with data and information and fact
Speaker 1: because if you're going to disagree, he's going to have
Speaker 1: a disagreement. Um, and you better just know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, I I like I said, so many
Speaker 1: people talk so highly of of al Davis, and I
Speaker 1: was just I've just missed him when I was at
Speaker 1: the league office, that just we didn't you know, he
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't Uh. I just didn't get a chance
Speaker 1: to meet him. But I wish I really would have
Speaker 1: had an opportunity. Now I read your your book, You
Speaker 1: Negotiate Like a Girl, And one of the excerpts that
Speaker 1: I really liked was when I was when you ran
Speaker 1: into a good friend of mine, Andrew Kramer, in the
Speaker 1: bathroom at the league meeting. And I never really thought
Speaker 1: about this because I've been to a ton of league
Speaker 1: meetings like you have, and it's I always think about
Speaker 1: like the lines for the men's room compared to the
Speaker 1: lines for the ladies room. In most instant says it's
Speaker 1: the ladies room has the long line. Well, at the
Speaker 1: league meeting, it's all men and and and right, no line.
Speaker 1: It's and you talk about like two of the most
Speaker 1: powerful people, not women, people in sports in the ladies room,
Speaker 1: and you and you talked about like just being intimidated
Speaker 1: by Andrea and if if anybody that has ever seen Andrew,
Speaker 1: Andrew is not she's a tiny person but physically but
Speaker 1: everything else about her is so amazingly just tremendous, and
Speaker 1: I just thought that was you know what, what what
Speaker 1: was that like just being in those meetings at that
Speaker 1: time and being one of very few women. Um you
Speaker 1: know what, what resistance did you experience from from any group? Well?
Speaker 1: When I started attending league meetings in the mid eighties,
Speaker 1: there were no other women in the room. Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: That weren't related to ownership. Oh actually, you know, you
Speaker 1: know there's the one big league meeting a year where
Speaker 1: where families come, but the two per club meetings and
Speaker 1: the one for club meetings. Um M, that it just there.
Speaker 1: The discussion of women in sports wasn't happening. When I
Speaker 1: went to my first league meeting. Uh, you know that.
Speaker 1: You you know how it works doing the owners and
Speaker 1: executives gathered in the back of the room and then
Speaker 1: have a little bit of coffee or whatever before the
Speaker 1: meeting starts. And I was in the back of the
Speaker 1: room and someone turned and looked at me, the owner
Speaker 1: of another team, and and asked me to get him coffee.
Speaker 1: And I quickly realized, I'm the only woman in this
Speaker 1: room who's not part of the catering staff. So I
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun with it. I reacted in
Speaker 1: a manner that worked well for me. I've been criticized
Speaker 1: by others who told me I should have gotten annoyed
Speaker 1: or I should have given him a lecture, and I
Speaker 1: handled it in a way that I thought was going
Speaker 1: to be very effective, and it was, and I thought
Speaker 1: it was going to be very fun, and it was.
Speaker 1: I looked at him and I said, sure, how do
Speaker 1: you take that? And he told me, and I handed
Speaker 1: him his coffee. And I knew when that meeting started
Speaker 1: in a few minutes, and the two people per club
Speaker 1: took a seat, and he saw I was there, he
Speaker 1: would put two and two together. And remember the coffee incident. Well,
Speaker 1: I got him his coffee, and a few minutes later
Speaker 1: we went in and Al and I sat in our
Speaker 1: two seats. And when I he looked over and saw me,
Speaker 1: you could actually almost see the blood draining from his face.
Speaker 1: And I started laughing, and he started laughing. And from
Speaker 1: that moment on, he could not have been more supportive
Speaker 1: and more encouraging of me than he was. But I
Speaker 1: did regularly remind him he never even tipped me for
Speaker 1: the coffee. Yeah, exactly, what was that about? Right? Right? Um?
Speaker 1: But you know, I had the just magnificent privilege and
Speaker 1: pleasure of working with UM. It's just terrific human beings
Speaker 1: who interacted without me, with me, without regard to agenda,
Speaker 1: and that's how I approached my job. I never spent
Speaker 1: a moment thinking about the fact that I was a woman.
Speaker 1: It strikes me as counterintuitive if one doesn't want others
Speaker 1: thinking about one's gender, for one to spend time thinking
Speaker 1: about one's gender. I mean, if I want to walk
Speaker 1: into a meeting and I don't want anyone else thinking
Speaker 1: about the fact that I'm a woman, then I don't
Speaker 1: think I should be thinking about the fact that I'm
Speaker 1: a woman. It's an interesting you know, talk about like
Speaker 1: that gender blind concept and you want to treat people
Speaker 1: the same regardless of gender. And I went through a
Speaker 1: similar situation, not me personally, but I hired Sarah Thomas,
Speaker 1: who was the first female NFL official, and Sarah is
Speaker 1: the same way, Sarah, Sarah, I'm going I'm I want
Speaker 1: to be a game official. It's not I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a female game if I want to be
Speaker 1: a game official, and I'm going to treat you the
Speaker 1: same way, and I expect to be treated the same
Speaker 1: way as any other game official. And as you know,
Speaker 1: when you when you realize you're a game official, people
Speaker 1: don't treat you that well. And so you know, for Sarah,
Speaker 1: I remember it was it was Bruce arians who kind
Speaker 1: of baptized her into the NFL. And Bruce will will
Speaker 1: MF anyone and he MF Sarah during a preseason game
Speaker 1: and and we talked about it after the game said,
Speaker 1: I said, you made it. You're an NFL official now
Speaker 1: because regardless of gender, you're going to get that type
Speaker 1: of treatment. And I think you know that was a
Speaker 1: very similar experience for her and I you know, it's
Speaker 1: just so hard nowadays to to be that, you know,
Speaker 1: to be blind to that because we hear the like
Speaker 1: you said, you were there in the eighties. We're still
Speaker 1: talking about every time a female, we have a female
Speaker 1: coach or it's a story. When do you think it
Speaker 1: becomes a non story? You know what, just what a
Speaker 1: brilliant point you make, And I'm glad you made it
Speaker 1: because as exciting as these things are, and I want
Speaker 1: to touch on your hiring of Sarah for a moment,
Speaker 1: but as exciting as these things are, what's going to
Speaker 1: be truly exciting is when this is no longer a story,
Speaker 1: when it's no longer a story when someone is hired
Speaker 1: who isn't typically hired in a role, whether it's due
Speaker 1: to gender or race or any other you know, individuality
Speaker 1: that has been excluded in the past. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's when it's going to be exciting, when we no
Speaker 1: longer are talking about these things because it becomes the norm.
Speaker 1: But I remember when you hired Sarah um and I
Speaker 1: the hats off to you because you did it because
Speaker 1: she was the right person for the job. You didn't
Speaker 1: do it for any other reason. And I was interviewed
Speaker 1: about that quite a bit, and my point was exactly
Speaker 1: the one you just made. You know what, She'll do
Speaker 1: her job and guess what, she's going to get booed,
Speaker 1: and she's going to get cussed at and she's going
Speaker 1: to get cussed out. And you know what, if you
Speaker 1: do it to a male official, you should do it
Speaker 1: to a female official. And that was my instinct, my
Speaker 1: gut impression of what Sarah wanted, and it turns out
Speaker 1: that is how she viewed her job as well. I
Speaker 1: will tell you that one of the most special moments
Speaker 1: in my career was when Al was we were with
Speaker 1: a group of people, and I'll try to make this
Speaker 1: very short, but essentially he was apologizing to a different
Speaker 1: woman in the room, a visitor we had um saying
Speaker 1: an advanced look. You know, I'll try not to swear.
Speaker 1: I don't like to swear in front of women. And
Speaker 1: I looked over at him, like, what did you just say?
Speaker 1: And he didn't see me looking at him, and then
Speaker 1: he said, and I would never swear at a woman.
Speaker 1: And my pen flew out of my hand and landed
Speaker 1: on the desk with a thump. Because the man swore
Speaker 1: at me all the time, probably every day, multiple times.
Speaker 1: And he looked over at me and realized what he
Speaker 1: had said and how I reacted, and he said, oh, Amy,
Speaker 1: I swear at Amy, but I don't consider her a woman.
Speaker 1: And that was the biggest compliment he could ever have
Speaker 1: given me, that he evaluated me without regard to gender. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because you know, my my motives were questioned
Speaker 1: when we hired Sarah, and the league's motives were questioned,
Speaker 1: are we just hiring her because she's a female? Is
Speaker 1: it a pr thing? And it was it was tough,
Speaker 1: It was tough because the league wanted to celebrate her,
Speaker 1: her making you know, that milestone, but we also had
Speaker 1: many conversations with her. We also wanted to protect her
Speaker 1: and say, look, she's just another game official. And and
Speaker 1: and I think your point is a great one too.
Speaker 1: When it's going, when it when it will be really exciting,
Speaker 1: is when it's not a story. And and hopefully that's
Speaker 1: that's coming in the near in the near term versus
Speaker 1: you know, farther down the line. And of course it's
Speaker 1: not exactly and of course it's not mutually exclusive to
Speaker 1: both recognize that she got her job on the merits
Speaker 1: without regard togender, but that by you hiring her, that's
Speaker 1: a heck of a message to little girls that they
Speaker 1: too can pursue their dreams and know that there are
Speaker 1: people who will hire them without regard to gender. Now, listen,
Speaker 1: I want your listeners to know that when you and
Speaker 1: I interacted when we were both in the league, there
Speaker 1: was never, in my view, in my estimation, in my experience,
Speaker 1: any time you interacted with me in any manner other
Speaker 1: than you would have had I been a male. Sure
Speaker 1: does that you know? And and that, by the way,
Speaker 1: that's how it should be whether we were on the
Speaker 1: same side of an issue or wanting to strangle one another.
Speaker 1: Gender should not not that I would ever want to
Speaker 1: do that to an official um or anyone in the officiating,
Speaker 1: you should say, but my experience with the officials and
Speaker 1: the league, during my years with you, with Mike Pereira,
Speaker 1: gender was never an issue, and and that and that's
Speaker 1: how we we approached it as well. I do want
Speaker 1: to I would be remiss. We talked about a phishing
Speaker 1: let's shift gears a little bit. I would be remiss
Speaker 1: if I didn't bring up the play. And I know
Speaker 1: this is something that you know. I know it haunts
Speaker 1: you and you probably still wake up at night and
Speaker 1: you see Walt Coleman's face the tuck play. Okay, talk
Speaker 1: to me about what what your experience, what was happening,
Speaker 1: what was going through your mind as it all unfolded
Speaker 1: on that snowy evening up in Oxborough. Well, as you know,
Speaker 1: it was Foxborough, as you just mentioned, I should say,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't a new, modern, modern facility. So staff
Speaker 1: from the visiting team was seated in a visiting team
Speaker 1: staff section of the press box. So we were in
Speaker 1: the middle of you know, the media, and Art McNally,
Speaker 1: the then director of officiating, was behind me. And the
Speaker 1: reason I point that out is there's the no cheering
Speaker 1: in the press box rule which people try to abide
Speaker 1: by it, but it doesn't always work. So when we
Speaker 1: saw Woodson hit Brady, the ball come out, Beakert falling,
Speaker 1: we knew we couldn't scream. We knew we couldn't cheer.
Speaker 1: So my colleagues and I, the coworkers and I, we
Speaker 1: just started grabbing each other's arms and like expressing just
Speaker 1: incredible delight with our pictures, squeezing one another because we
Speaker 1: didn't want to scream. And then I realized, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: they're going to review this play. And as you know,
Speaker 1: the play was inside just just just inside of two minutes.
Speaker 1: Had this play been only a couple of seconds sooner,
Speaker 1: game over, because New England had no time out, New
Speaker 1: England couldn't have challenged this. I'm getting myself always, but
Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about football being referred to
Speaker 1: as a game of seconds and a game of inches,
Speaker 1: if this play happens only seconds earlier, game over. So anyway,
Speaker 1: it didn't, and it happened just seconds inside of two minutes,
Speaker 1: and I realized it was being um reviewed. So I
Speaker 1: turned to Art McNally, who your listeners should know was
Speaker 1: not a young man at the time. He was very old,
Speaker 1: or he was older, he was very esteemed. And I
Speaker 1: looked at him in a very loud voice, because again
Speaker 1: I have a loud voice. I wasn't trying to scream.
Speaker 1: I just talked loudly. I said, you better call nine
Speaker 1: one one because if you overturned this, if you if
Speaker 1: you overturn this play or this I'm trying not to say,
Speaker 1: but you know, if you, you better call nine one
Speaker 1: one because if you overturn this F and play, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have an F and stroke. But I didn't say
Speaker 1: F and I said the word. Well, in that Mike
Speaker 1: Silver article I referred to earlier UM it was reported
Speaker 1: by someone that I said, you better overturn. You know,
Speaker 1: if you overturn this F and play, I'm going to
Speaker 1: have an F and heart attack. So I looked at
Speaker 1: my husband because I didn't recall I had said that.
Speaker 1: And I looked at my husband. I said, I didn't
Speaker 1: say that. I did not say that. I am contacting
Speaker 1: sports illustrated, I am demanding a retraction. My husband lets
Speaker 1: me go on and on for a bit, and then
Speaker 1: he looks at me and says, well, before you call
Speaker 1: sports illustrated, let me tell you what you really did say.
Speaker 1: You said you better not overturn this f and play
Speaker 1: because if you do, I'm going to have an F
Speaker 1: and stroke. So it was, yeah, it was the ya,
Speaker 1: it's I can't even describe to you how just surreal
Speaker 1: it was. And yes, we got the ball back, and yes,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody points out amy, you still had opportunities
Speaker 1: to win, and they're right, Except I saw the faces
Speaker 1: on our sidelines. I saw how incredulous and stunned everyone
Speaker 1: in the organization, coaches, players, all of us were. Um,
Speaker 1: it was like someone had ripped into our heart, into
Speaker 1: our chest cavities and ripped our hearts out. Now is
Speaker 1: that an excuse? No, we still had a chance to
Speaker 1: win the game, but in our minds we had and
Speaker 1: it was just taken from us. We were we were overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: just heartbroken. Now and that's and and I can't imagine
Speaker 1: going from the highest of highs we we won the
Speaker 1: game to what is happening and as it's playing out
Speaker 1: and now and now everybody has thinks it's over, and
Speaker 1: now you have to compose yourself and keep playing. It's
Speaker 1: an unbelievable, unbelievable situation, and you are what what was
Speaker 1: great is that you to this day you are as
Speaker 1: you are, as adamant and as emotional as you were
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one to today, two thousand nineteen.
Speaker 1: It's still with you. And that's that passion it is
Speaker 1: and you know you stated it perfectly and far more articulately,
Speaker 1: articulately than I did, because I was getting myself all
Speaker 1: hit up again. But um, yeah, we won the game.
Speaker 1: In our minds, the game was over. We won game overdone,
Speaker 1: and now we had to regroup and play again. And
Speaker 1: that's why I'm very careful to say. I don't offer
Speaker 1: that as an excuse, because other teams might have been
Speaker 1: able to regroup and win the game anyway, but I
Speaker 1: offered as an explanation. We were just flabbergasted. And yes,
Speaker 1: I am as passionate about it today. But I will
Speaker 1: note this many people when they hear me or see
Speaker 1: my tweets about it, Amy get over it, Amy, let
Speaker 1: it go. And my response to that is, isn't this
Speaker 1: the fun? Of sports. There are so many things in
Speaker 1: life that we have to let go, that we have
Speaker 1: to say, all right, move on, let go. Well, the
Speaker 1: fun of sports is the passion that we have and
Speaker 1: the fact that whether it's the immaculate reception or the
Speaker 1: touch rule or any other place, you know, the catch,
Speaker 1: we all can continue to feel as passionate as we do.
Speaker 1: We don't have to let it go. That's the passion
Speaker 1: of sports. And and that's it, and that's what I
Speaker 1: think makes it so great. And I think that sometimes
Speaker 1: we don't we don't want to see officiating controversies necessarily,
Speaker 1: but they they're part of the lore of the game, right,
Speaker 1: it's it's part of the history and part of that
Speaker 1: that romanticism of remembering, Hey, if everything was just accurate,
Speaker 1: never and there was no debate, no controversy, it would
Speaker 1: be boring. And and and sorry you had to be
Speaker 1: on the wrong end of that call, as as the
Speaker 1: law and the history. And we're celebrating a hundred years
Speaker 1: of NFL football, but it is, it is part of it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I was about to jump in and say
Speaker 1: there's no beauty in that night. Now you and I
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's have at it. There's no beauty,
Speaker 1: but I do understand what you're saying. It is part
Speaker 1: of what um people remember about sport. It was just
Speaker 1: oh and and and then we we couldn't get out
Speaker 1: of New England because it was snowing. And well, and
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. We finally got home hours
Speaker 1: and hours and hours and hours delayed, and I got
Speaker 1: into my house and I was looking at email, and
Speaker 1: there was an email from my cousin, who's, you know,
Speaker 1: a very very successful, smart lawyer, and he got a
Speaker 1: copy of the Tuch rule and he sent a mass
Speaker 1: email to everyone in the family, like fifty people, breaking
Speaker 1: down a legal analysis of the Tuch rule. And I
Speaker 1: was so mad. I hit reply all and I just
Speaker 1: wrote f but I spelled the word out as you
Speaker 1: and it said, and my husband says to me, a
Speaker 1: few minutes later, you know, you sent that to the
Speaker 1: entire family, including like your parents and everyone. And I
Speaker 1: didn't care. And maybe twenty minutes later I get an
Speaker 1: email back to the whole family from my dad and
Speaker 1: it said, Amy's right. Well, I just want to say
Speaker 1: before I let you go that you know, the Tuck
Speaker 1: rule was changed in two thousand thirteen, and who was
Speaker 1: the head of officiating that year. That was someone's first year,
Speaker 1: and one of his first orders of business was to
Speaker 1: change the tuck rule. Remember who? Remember who that was?
Speaker 1: Let me think rhymes rhymes rhymes with? Yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: think of a good rhyming word. I was going to
Speaker 1: be really cute and say what your name rhymed with?
Speaker 1: But I know who that was. That was me. So
Speaker 1: that was an ode to you, and I thought it
Speaker 1: was perfectly It was poetic that the Raiders abstained from
Speaker 1: that vote that I thought that was amazing. I thought
Speaker 1: that was the that was the punctuation point. That was it.
Speaker 1: That was it at the end, and that was bringing
Speaker 1: back the old abstention of Raider lore. Because that was
Speaker 1: one of my greatest and most proud moments, was when
Speaker 1: I got out to let me end the process of
Speaker 1: abstaining and start voting on things. And it took a
Speaker 1: lot of work for me to get him to stop abstaining.
Speaker 1: But if ever there was a perfect moment for the
Speaker 1: organization to go back to abstaining, that was it. It
Speaker 1: was it. I thought it was perfect poetic justice. So Amy,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Amy. You can follow her on
Speaker 1: Twitter at Amy Trask, maybe she'll say hi to you,
Speaker 1: which she does to a lot of us on Twitter. Amy,
Speaker 1: thank you so so much for joining me. Dan, may
Speaker 1: I say before we go, um, that it really was
Speaker 1: a delight to join you on this and it is
Speaker 1: so fun for me to watch how you are succeeding
Speaker 1: in media and your every success as the league's loss.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Amy. All Right, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: a break and when we come back, I'll share that
Speaker 1: league meeting story and we're gonna talk about a crazy
Speaker 1: play from college football's oldest and longest running rivalry. Next
Speaker 1: on Good Calls. All right, we're back on Good Calls.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to the Princess of Darkness, Sammy Trash for
Speaker 1: joining us a lot of great stories. Um, she's still
Speaker 1: not over the tuck little by the way box. They do.
Speaker 1: They bring in guests on Sundays to hang out, and
Speaker 1: we have what's called the Avocado Room, which is Fox's
Speaker 1: cool hip way of a green room, right because avocado
Speaker 1: were in California and blah blah blah blah blah whatever
Speaker 1: exactly so today, so today do it again, Chad Avocado toast.
Speaker 1: You guys going to get some avocado terrorist. That's very
Speaker 1: that's very callie. So so today, in addition to the
Speaker 1: normal guests, um, there was a group John c McGinley,
Speaker 1: the actor Travis give me, give me a quick film
Speaker 1: out from filmography. John. I saw him walking in the
Speaker 1: room and I was like, I know this guy from somewhere.
Speaker 1: And the one that I knew right off top of
Speaker 1: my head was Office Space and Scrubs. Yeah, no, he's
Speaker 1: a good He's been in a ton of stuff. Who
Speaker 1: was in Office Space that movie? He was the boss? Right,
Speaker 1: who are you playing office Space? Not even Yeah that guy?
Speaker 1: Yeah he was, so he was. He was in Scrubs,
Speaker 1: he was in Platoon. Stop did you know about me?
Speaker 1: And movies? Man? Every single day movies. So anyway, and
Speaker 1: Dean gives a little speech to all the people that
Speaker 1: come through our cube and and and he tells them
Speaker 1: about what we do and how we're the real workers
Speaker 1: and yeah we were. And then and then Terry and
Speaker 1: Howie and straight Hand they just yuck it up on
Speaker 1: camera for like thirty minutes and where they were all
Speaker 1: day working. So anyway, So John c McGinley, who I've
Speaker 1: always like, I've always are as an actor, He's wearing
Speaker 1: a Giant's hat, and I didn't realize he's from New York.
Speaker 1: He grew up in in actually in Manhattan, notice, and
Speaker 1: he was one of the Bob's on Office Space anyway. Okay,
Speaker 1: he was one of the Bob's, all right, So so
Speaker 1: Giant's hat. So I grew up a Giants fan, grew
Speaker 1: up in New York. And we started talking and then
Speaker 1: he went off on Past Infuriance Review and he was like,
Speaker 1: I got a question. He's like, what's up with Past
Speaker 1: Inferrance Review? And it was interesting to hear, like it's
Speaker 1: just funny because you think about this guy that that is,
Speaker 1: is this Hollywood actor that they're just fans, right, He's
Speaker 1: just like a football fan. And he was frustrated with
Speaker 1: how Past Inference Review was being administered. And we had
Speaker 1: this long conversation about it, and you know, the call
Speaker 1: and the Giants Patriots game and and and all of
Speaker 1: these things, and he, you know, and he was pretty
Speaker 1: like worked up about it. And I think, um, so
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that John c McGinley feels a little bit
Speaker 1: better about Past in France Review, because, like we talked
Speaker 1: about earlier, the standard does appear at least when the
Speaker 1: call is not made on the field that it has changed. So, um,
Speaker 1: John c McGinley, big football fan, great actor, Maybe hopefully
Speaker 1: we can reach out and get him on the show.
Speaker 1: And that was Yeah, it was. It definitely was. You know,
Speaker 1: you could have gained a listener there. We talked about
Speaker 1: it a Good calls every week. John talk about it
Speaker 1: on Good. Yeah, I'm just not that kind of promoter.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna meet people and they, oh, you know what,
Speaker 1: I got a podcast and Shanks's assistant comes in there.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's just that they're not doing that. But
Speaker 1: so so the other the other thing that happened to
Speaker 1: me this week, and you guys we've talked about it
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Um, I was doing the XFL. I'm
Speaker 1: helping out the XFL with they're officiating, and I was
Speaker 1: doing a reading. We're doing these rules. Um, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do these things to help people understand the XFL rules
Speaker 1: because there's some changes. It's it's NFL rule based, but
Speaker 1: there's some differences. The kickoff is different, overtime is different.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to do these things that we could
Speaker 1: post on social media and share with the fans. With
Speaker 1: diagrams and they wanted me to voice them over. So
Speaker 1: I spent a couple of hours um at a studio
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica doing voice over work, which I never
Speaker 1: realized how hard it was. And you have a room
Speaker 1: full of people that are telling you know, read it
Speaker 1: this way and read it with more of a smile
Speaker 1: and read it. I'm like, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: But so the the line I had to read about
Speaker 1: the kickoff, and the line was, um, don't worry, There'll
Speaker 1: still be plenty of action, There'll still be pretty, There's
Speaker 1: still be plenty of contact without the huge running starts.
Speaker 1: So I want to give too much away about the
Speaker 1: XFL kickoff, but the line was huge running start. And
Speaker 1: if you listen to our show, you know that I'm
Speaker 1: from Long Island and I have a hard time pronouncing
Speaker 1: that word correctly. I can't pronounce the age. I just
Speaker 1: say huge, so it's spelled U g E. So I'm
Speaker 1: doing this line and the guy he goes, Dean, it's great,
Speaker 1: we love it. It sounds great. Only one note that
Speaker 1: I had the huge is coming out as huge, like
Speaker 1: it's just sounding like you're saying us. I'm like, you
Speaker 1: know it doesn't sound like that. I am saying huge
Speaker 1: like it's not it's it's not so us. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so let's just say it like you, you know, h
Speaker 1: and and I literally couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to say he and I. Every time
Speaker 1: I say, I'm whispering because that's the only way I
Speaker 1: can pronounce the age. So I'm like, without the huge
Speaker 1: running start, and I get it. I literally did seven
Speaker 1: times without the huge, huge, huge running start. So finally
Speaker 1: goes all right, so we're gonna change huge to big
Speaker 1: and can you do big running start? And I was
Speaker 1: like yeah, And I felt like Rocky and Rocky too
Speaker 1: when he was doing when he couldn't read the script,
Speaker 1: and and I was like, I'm not I'm not a
Speaker 1: dumb guy. You know. It was unbelievable. I literally he
Speaker 1: got in my head. I couldn't say. We got to
Speaker 1: get a speech coach for you for that. If you
Speaker 1: want to keep that voice over career going, go to
Speaker 1: the brain of Blandino before we wrap it up. All right,
Speaker 1: here we go, ready, my little I'm looking Oh, this
Speaker 1: is a good one. Pineapple on pizza slash barbecue chicken. Well,
Speaker 1: this goes to the whole Okay, this goes to the
Speaker 1: whole conversation of you know, pizza and pineapple on pizza.
Speaker 1: There's certainly I'm I'm a traditionalist purist. I don't. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not a pizza snob. And you guys know that
Speaker 1: I'm from New York, but I will eat pizza from anywhere,
Speaker 1: one of very few New Yorkers. I never sit there
Speaker 1: and go, oh, it's not New York pizza. I'm not,
Speaker 1: you know, so, but I I know. I guarantee you
Speaker 1: I know more about pizza than barstool presidente over there.
Speaker 1: I guarantee you. Okay. But anyway, so the thing is
Speaker 1: is that a challenge is that a pizza off. We
Speaker 1: can do it. You know what should do? We should
Speaker 1: get like one of those people who what what are
Speaker 1: they like some liais but for like taste buds, and
Speaker 1: they could they could give like a real rating on
Speaker 1: the pizza and then we'll see, you know, legit, the
Speaker 1: legit pizza guy. He has to show on Vice. Um,
Speaker 1: the pizza guy he's from. He's I'm Brooklyn, I think,
Speaker 1: and he has but I think if you can look
Speaker 1: him up, Travis. He's great. That guy. Um, I've watched
Speaker 1: him on Vice. They had the Pizza Show. Well, according
Speaker 1: to Scott in the queue, if if this gets back
Speaker 1: to bar stool, you're gonna get your door. And I
Speaker 1: love those guys, I went on part of my take.
Speaker 1: I love those guys. I just you know, I am
Speaker 1: a pizza connoisseur, but I'm not a pizza snob. And
Speaker 1: so here's the thing. Pineapple, I'm just very I'm very
Speaker 1: torn with the whole pineapple barbecue chicken like barbecue sauce
Speaker 1: on pizza, Pineapple on pizza. I just I don't see it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it tastes good. I don't like. But
Speaker 1: apparently a lot of people like it. Okay, where you like?
Speaker 1: I I actually like. I like pineapple and pizza. I
Speaker 1: can't stop a fan pizza. I think it's great. You
Speaker 1: get a little sweet with the savory and it's awesome.
Speaker 1: It's just it's not the flavor profile. It's the heat
Speaker 1: hot pineapple, Like would you throw a pineapple on the oven?
Speaker 1: So I'll make stuffry and I'll throw some pineapple in there.
Speaker 1: It's it's good. It's like pine about like a nice cold, refreshing,
Speaker 1: like refreshing pin I get off the water, I get
Speaker 1: off the boat's yeah to day, give me some pineapple.
Speaker 1: I'm in, you're gonna rule against me on this one
Speaker 1: the note and we're definitely. I just don't. I'm look
Speaker 1: I was. I probably have softened my stance on this,
Speaker 1: but I'm not a big getting to you. I'm not
Speaker 1: a big pineapple so so to me, the pineapple is
Speaker 1: a but but I dig a barbecue chicken pizza. So
Speaker 1: Dan Jensen's your guy from Vice? No, no, no, his
Speaker 1: name is not Dan Jens The Pizza Show, Google the
Speaker 1: Pizza Show on Vice. I got a couple of guys
Speaker 1: here sat Dan Jensen. Bad, is it? I don't think
Speaker 1: it is Dan Jansen. Was it wasn't Dan Jansen, like
Speaker 1: the guy the Decatholey. So give us the top three
Speaker 1: California pizzas, real quick California pizza that I've been to.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. There's Joe's in Santa Monica that
Speaker 1: is very New York style that I like. And again
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not opposed to other styles of pizza.
Speaker 1: I just that's what I grew up with. And Joe's
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica is the close just in this area
Speaker 1: that I've seen. You know, by the slice, you can
Speaker 1: go in, you get a couple of slices. It's has
Speaker 1: that has that pizzeria pizza parlor feel. Um. I'm honestly,
Speaker 1: Fresh Brothers is not bad for for what it is
Speaker 1: Fresh kids, right, Fresh Brothers. My kids love Fresh Brothers.
Speaker 1: Fresh Brothers for the the kind of the delivery, you know,
Speaker 1: the Domino's Pizza Hut style. Fresh Brothers just really is.
Speaker 1: I think you can change Fresh Brothers. Fresh Brothers and yeah, great,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. And they've got a kilo crust now too.
Speaker 1: For us that are to say, the pizza that is
Speaker 1: really that I really like is Tower twelve and Hermosa Beach.
Speaker 1: Tower twelve does a a parmesan. Yeah, but it's got
Speaker 1: parmesan like on it. It's a pizza, but the crust
Speaker 1: has We've got a cheese and parmesan. It's just really
Speaker 1: really good. Tara twelve Table it's not good pizza is
Speaker 1: also in Hermosa Beach. But I'm not gonna name. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna throw anybody down under
Speaker 1: the bush. Yeah, I'm not gonna throw anybody in the bus.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying her most of Beach, every pizzeri and
Speaker 1: homost of Beach. Isn't that great? Okay? What's the guy?
Speaker 1: What's his name? Frank? Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, the other guy,
Speaker 1: Dan Jensen vised a story on him. He's only eating
Speaker 1: pizza for the last twenty five years. He's gonna so
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about him next week. All right, what
Speaker 1: that's our show? Thanks for listening. Was the matchup that's
Speaker 1: when it started with Lee High. This has been Good
Speaker 1: Calls with Dean Blandino. Please follow me on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Dean Blandino on Instagram at being dop Blendino. Follow the
Speaker 1: show on Instagram and Twitter, apples podcast, and be sure
Speaker 1: to rate our podcast on the I heart Radio app
Speaker 1: and on Apple Podcasts. Good Calls with Dean Blandino is
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H