1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephane. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Never told you protection of I Heart Radio. And today 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: we are thrilled once again be joined by the fabulous 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: Bridgetad coworker friend. Yes, first recording session of the New year. 5 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Oh that's right, happy first recording. How was your your 6 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: weirdo Christmas? How was your New year? Bridget weird Christmas 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: was super fun? Thank you for asking. It involved all 8 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: the staples. I hoped it had drunkenness, crazy outfit, fire hits, 9 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: dancing um. But then sadly, right after that, I got covid. 10 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: Oh I know, I am recovering from covid um, which 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: it was not how I planned to spend the are 12 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: part of the holiday. So my New Year's was just 13 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: really spent sweating and moaning, not for any kind of 14 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: fun reason, because I was in discomfort. That turns so quickly. Wow, Well, 15 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm glad you're okay. How are you feeling today? Much better? 16 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: I mean I unfortunately I got COVID before I was 17 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: able to be boosted. And so if anyone is listening 18 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: and they are like, I'll take in their sweet time 19 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: to get their booster shot, don't do that um my 20 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: partner also got COVID and he is he was boosted 21 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: and recovered so much quicker than me. So I'm feeling 22 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot better. But it really does linger, Like don't 23 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: let anybody tell you that. Oh, Macron is like, oh 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: it's very mild, like that might mean you don't need 25 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: to go to the hospital, but it definitely like lingers 26 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: and you feel like garbage for quite a while, right, 27 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: I mean that's the report I've been hearing, is like 28 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: everybody saying it was a mild case, but that doesn't 29 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: necessarily mean you're not acted or asymptomatic. Literally you're just 30 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: not at the hospital and you may have the hundred 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: and four favor all the problems and it may last 32 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: longer than the flu. But yeah, it sounds like being 33 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: boosted as the way to go. So sorry, Bridget, Yeah, 34 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: it's okay. I mean, it could have been a lot worse, 35 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm happy to be on the men, but yeah, 36 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: it was a good excuse to stay in bed and 37 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: watch binge watch shows, so I was happy about that. Well, yeah, 38 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: it's funny because Samantha and I it was like right 39 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: before all the cron like we you know, heard about it, 40 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: but it was before everyone was like, oh my god, 41 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: it's everywhere. We went to the movies, um and we 42 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: saw The Matrix and Spider Man. We did a double 43 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: feature and I after that the news came out everyone 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: had at kron and I was convinced I had it, 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: even though I had no proof, like there's no symptoms 46 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: or anything. But I essentially stayed in on New Year's 47 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: as I find I'm not going anywhere I'm gonna see anybody. 48 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: And it was actually very lovely. It was nice, right, 49 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: I mean to the point that I think for introverts 50 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: like myself is now just like okay, well I might 51 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: have COVID, sooy, I can't I can't go, so sorry, 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, such a good, ready made excuse like 53 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: I might have COVID. I'm worried about COVID. Thinking about 54 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: COVID like such a good excuse to not have to 55 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: do things you don't really want to do. I'm like, 56 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: this is how I live in my comfy forever. I 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: keep mentioning comfies and they are not a sponsor. They 58 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: need to be a sponsor at this point because I'm 59 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: always cold and I'm looking at you bridget because you're 60 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: actually in sleeveless and I'm like, oh my god, and 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: it's sunny where you're sitting as where we are in 62 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: the darkness and depths of despair, apparently in my comfy 63 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: but I'm like, wow, this is a drastic difference between 64 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: us and you. So I am like the other side 65 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: of the coin, which is that I live in an 66 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: old apartment and we have old school like radiator heat. 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: We're not really able to control, so uncomfortably warm in 68 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: my bood window open, even though there's snow on the ground. 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: That is very, very different. We got like a hint 70 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: of snow in Atlanta and cranking up my radiator. I 71 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: also have a radiator that I it's tricky to control, 72 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: but I think I got it figured out. You open 73 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: the one in the bathroom halfway and you're going to 74 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: be fine. Yeah, has radiator heat like you have. You 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: have like a weird mechanism of life. You gotta do this, 76 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: gotta do that. A window like it's it's a delicate art. Yeah. 77 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: When I first moved in here, I was like, I 78 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: asked my landlord, what is that? And he looked at me. 79 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: He said, it's a radiator. You're gonna have to figure 80 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: that out, like, oh, okay, yes, well okay, now that 81 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: we've checked in, Bridget, I am so excited with the 82 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: topic you bought today because I didn't know this story 83 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: and it's an amazing story. Um, so you tell us 84 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking about today, Yes, I'm 85 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: so excited to. Um, you know one of my favorite 86 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: things in the world. That's really talking about overlooked figures 87 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: in history, the history of technology and the Internet, of 88 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: which there are many, and I feel like they can 89 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: really tell us a lot about how our identity is 90 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: often determined who gets remembered and who gets overlooked, even 91 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: when someone is responsible for pretty much changing the world, 92 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: like the person that we're going to be discussing today, 93 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: Lynn Conway. Lynn Conway is an amazing historical figure. She's 94 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: still alive, but she essentially changed the world. She is 95 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: the reason why we have things like personal computers, smartphones, tablets, iPads, 96 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: all of that, and yet her story almost went overlooked 97 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: because of transphobia. Right yeah, and it is quite the 98 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: story and quite the journey. Um, and still still alive today, 99 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: so that's awesome. Um, still making changes also awesome, But 100 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: can we get into some of the early history here. Yes. 101 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: So Lynn Conway she was born in nineteen thirty eight 102 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: and was assigned mail at birth, but from an early 103 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: age she knew there was more to her story as 104 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: it pertained to her gender. U. Her mom was studying 105 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: anthropology at Columbia, and she would flip through her mom's 106 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: school textbook sort of looking for any kind of answers 107 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: or perspectives that spoke to how she knew she was feeling. UM. 108 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: And there's a really lovely profile of Lynn Conway in 109 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: Michigan Engineering News, so definitely check that out. But in 110 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: that profile, she says, it seemed like people in other 111 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: cultures has found different ways to deal with what I 112 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: knew I was feeling, but then that became scrambled. But 113 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: the thought that what I was feeling was that I 114 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: was gay, but no one ever talked about these things. Um. 115 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: When Conway was fourteen, she read a new story about 116 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: the former Army private Christine Jorgensen, who was the first 117 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: person in the United States to publicly announce a gender transition, 118 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: and that really changed everything for Lynn Conway. She said 119 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: from reading that story she knew what she needed to do, 120 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: like she realized, like I am going through the same thing, 121 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: and this is what I want to do. When it 122 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: really set her out on this journey to discover her identity. Wow, 123 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: I really couldn't imagine in that date and time being 124 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: in that place like it is difficult as it is 125 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: today in Oh my god, I said, the year of 126 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: being a part of the queer community in general, even 127 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: no matter what, I just you know, not to put 128 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: too much of my personal life out there. I just 129 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: had a big discussion with my parents about acceptance of 130 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: the queer community point blank, not not anything outside of 131 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: not me coming out, just just what it was. And 132 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: it was a little bit combative from my parents that 133 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: just then trying to accept the queer community in general 134 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: and talking about what that is in relation to their 135 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: conservative ideas. So I can't imagine if those are the 136 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: hard conversations we're having today, I can't imagine what it 137 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: would have been like back then. So what was her 138 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: coming of age story? Like, what what was it that 139 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: we need to know of because I can't Again, like 140 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: my heart just like is pounding at the idea of 141 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: what she went through. Yeah, it's at that's such a 142 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: good point. And when I was putting together this outline 143 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: of her of her life, that was the thing that 144 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: I kept getting struck by the ways in which we 145 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: have come so far as a society in terms of 146 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: accepting but also the ways in which we have a 147 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: lot further to go as in terms of sort of 148 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: accepting and supporting uh folks who are on our journey 149 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: right And so um Conaway initially tried to transition while 150 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: she was studying M I T in the fifties, and 151 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: so she basically started taking hormones that she had procured 152 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: on her own. And then she talked to a friend 153 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: who was in medical school to see if he could 154 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: help her connect to a doctor who might be able 155 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: to help her. And this friend ended up taking her 156 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: to a dean at the college, and that dean told 157 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: her that she did not stop taking these hormones on 158 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: her own, that she would end up at a mental institution. 159 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: And this fear of being institutionalized and also arrested is 160 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: something that really marked Lin Conway's life. You know, back then, 161 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you were if you were to you know, 162 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: transition or Canadas trans in a lot of places, you 163 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: could just be outright arrested, but also the threat of 164 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: being institutionalized in a mental institution. And you know, I 165 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: it's again, it's one of those things that it makes 166 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: me so sad that even today there are people that 167 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: equate being trans with being mentally ill or being a criminal. 168 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: Like it's it's one of those things that obviously it 169 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: was so salient to lind Conway back in the fifties, 170 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: but it's not like we've unfortunately, it's not like we 171 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: have completely moved beyond that, because there are certainly still 172 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: people out there today who believe, oh, if you're trans, 173 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: you belong in prison, you belong in an institution. You know, 174 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: you're you're not quote unquote normal. And yeah, it's just 175 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: is one of those ways that makes me, on the 176 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: one hand, marvel at how far we've come, but also 177 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: lament that we have so much further to go. Yeah, yeah, 178 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean just all of the laws we've 179 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: seen pass, the antitrans laws, it's just ongoing ing, and 180 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: it's this constant onslaught and you know, it's targeting in 181 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: a lot of cases young young children, like people in schools, 182 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: and it's so damaging and so toxic, and I can 183 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: imagine for Conway, this that fear and being told by 184 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: the Dean like this was a legitimate fear was a 185 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: huge setback. Oh absolutely. I mean Lynn Connaway talks about 186 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: her time at M I t as like fairly traumatic 187 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: after this really disappointing current of events when she was 188 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,359 Speaker 1: trying to transition. Initially, she kind of just put transitioning 189 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: at the back of her mind. She got married, she 190 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: became a parent, she started working at IBM. Um At 191 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: this time in Lynn's life, she from the outside seemed 192 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: to kind of have a picture of perfect life. She 193 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: was making major moves and innovations at IBM, which at 194 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: the time was the seventh largest corporation in the whole world. 195 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: And while she was working at IBM, by all accounts, 196 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: she was kicking asked, you know, she invented a hardware 197 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: protocol that enabled the out of order command processing most 198 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: computers still rely on today. But all of this, all 199 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: of this, these accomplishments, and all of this like fantastic 200 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: domestic life that she that she seemed to be living, 201 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: was put into jeopardy because of transphobia, and that transphobia 202 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: would really alter the trajectory of her life. I can't 203 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: imagine a person who has that much stress on in 204 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: their lives and that much conflict being able to like, 205 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: what would she have really accomplished if she was able 206 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: to be fully accepted as who she was at that 207 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: point in time. And you know, and the other thought is, 208 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: like her friend really betrayed her. I can't imagine uh 209 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: trying ever coming out again, or even questioning again, or 210 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: even saying anything out loud because the person that she 211 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: trusted literally ranted her out in order to have this 212 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: agenda pushed against her, saying, nah, you better stay in 213 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: the norm o a k A. What we think is normal, 214 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: or you are going to be criminalized essentially for who 215 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: you are. And I'm just like, uh everything, Uh yeah, 216 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: That's something that I think about a lot when it 217 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: when it comes to things like transphobia. You know how 218 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: much brilliance does the world miss out on because of transphobia. 219 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: Glynn Conaway accomplished a lot, but could she've accomplished so 220 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: much more if she wasn't putting up with this? And 221 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: so I think about transpolkes today, you know, the kinds 222 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: of like ridiculous legislation that they have to spend their 223 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: time combating the kinds of ridiculous myths and stereotypes and 224 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: misinformation about who they are and their identities. If they 225 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: didn't have to spend their time countering that kind of nonsense, 226 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: what could they be accomplishing? And so I always wonder, 227 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: not only is it completely unfair unacceptable that trans folks 228 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: have to put up with that, but we all miss out, 229 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: like we all miss out on contributions that can make 230 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: our lives better or we're interesting and more creative when 231 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: marginalized people are saddled with these kinds of you know, 232 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: this kind of nonsense like an onslot of laws and 233 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: misinformation about who they are, right, Yeah, I feel like 234 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: that we talked about that a lot on here and 235 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: all the things that you know, the stories that aren't 236 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: even being told, and then that impacts what people think 237 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: or who people think are doing in technology or Stanfield 238 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: in general, um, who are making these these big moves 239 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: and you know, still using this technology. That's if we 240 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: don't know, we don't know about her and all Conway, 241 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: even though she kind of put this transitioning on the 242 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: back burner and never really left her mind, right, that's right. 243 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: So eventually she learned about the pioneering gender transition work 244 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: of Dr Harry Benjamin Um. He was a famous indo 245 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: chronologist and sexologist who was really known for his clinical 246 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: work with transpolkes. And she decided, I want to work 247 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: with this doctor. This is the doctor who was going 248 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: to help me. And this is something that I find 249 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: so heartbreaking that was in that Michigan engineering profile I 250 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, It sounds like Conway and her then spouse 251 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: had really worked out like a solid plan of the 252 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: logistics of how this transition was going to work for 253 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: their family. They decided they were going to get a 254 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: divorce and that Conway would start working with Dr Benjamin 255 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: to transition, and that she was going to pay child 256 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: support from this IBM salary that she had had, and 257 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: they decided that she was going to stay in the 258 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: lives of their children and that the children would call 259 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: her aunt right, And so it sounds like as a 260 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: family unit, they had really ironed out how this was 261 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: going to work. And according to another really compelling piece 262 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: I read in Forbes by Jeremy Alessandre, Conway's immediate family 263 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: and IBM, like her coworkers at IBM, were actually pretty 264 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: accepting and supportive of her desire to transition at first, 265 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: like even though this was you know, the fifties, the sixties, 266 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: like they were kind of okay with that and like 267 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: we're supporting this choice. However, when IBM's corporate medical director 268 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: learned that Conway was planning to transition in he told 269 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: CEO Thomas J. Watson Jr. Who fired Conway to avoid 270 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: the public embarrassment of employing a trans woman, and so 271 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: all of this work that that Conway had done with 272 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: her then spouse to to iron out the logistics of 273 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: how this is going to work, you know, was basically 274 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: pulled from under her. And this really, like it sounds 275 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: like this was like a completely destabilizing thing in her life. 276 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: Oh God, I mean yeah, absolutely. If you think you 277 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: have a plan and excited about at least having um 278 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: forward steps and then having something that is so traumatic 279 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: that once again is betraying you essentially something that you 280 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: are so excited about and not even excited about just 281 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: trying to live your life as you truly are. I 282 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: can't imagine how this would have just deflated you. I've 283 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: I've been without a job, I've been fired, and that 284 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: sense of self is gone and self worth feels like 285 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: you're it's just a loss of yourself. So someone who 286 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: can't even express themselves losing even more of themselves. Holy crap. 287 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: And I can't on top of that, like this again, y'all, 288 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: Like my Christmas was a doozy. But this again kind 289 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: of comes back to my conversation with my pears of like, 290 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: this is why these laws are important, This is why 291 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: anti discrimination laws need to be in place. And when 292 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: we talked about tugging at the strings, which is what 293 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: is happening under the Supreme Court, which is what we're 294 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: talking about every day. Still, um, these are things like 295 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: this can happen, and it truly I can't imagine what 296 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: the impact was for her to be fired during the 297 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: middle of the things that she thought she could maybe 298 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: finally find herself. Yeah, it's so sad. It really seems 299 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: like it started like ad onward spiral in her life. 300 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: You know, she had to divorce her spouse while losing 301 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: her sole source of income, which you know, obviously, as 302 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: you just described, like makes it that much more difficult 303 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: when you your source of income has gone, your identity 304 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: that was attached to having this like pretty big deal 305 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: job being not just being taken from you in this way, 306 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: but like your contributions. You know, she was someone who 307 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: kicked ass, who really made a lot of contributions, and 308 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: being fired like this like meeting those contributions and all 309 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: of that work just sort of going overlooked because of transphobia. 310 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: And so it really sounds like this like it was 311 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: a really dark time for her. The California Social Services 312 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: tried to keep her way from her kids, and Conway's 313 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: then ex spouse decided that she could not have any 314 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: contact with them because she was worried that if Conway 315 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: was in her kid's life that they would be taken 316 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: by the state. And at the time, her kids were 317 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: just babies. They were two and four years old, And 318 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: this sounds like something that really stuck with Conway. In 319 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: this profile, she recalls that tore me up. Let me 320 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: tell you, the hardest part about the whole thing was 321 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: that I really felt like a mom to them. And again, 322 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 1: just what a domino effect, a negative domino effect, being 323 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: fired for being trans caused in her life, losing her income, 324 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: losing that identity, breaking up her family, and she you know, 325 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: she knew this was going to be a really tough 326 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 1: process and She relied on her lessons that she had 327 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: learned from this, like lifetime love of outdoor adventures like 328 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: canoeing and rock climbing, to steady herself. She described it, Now, 329 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: I had a plan to get across the river, she said. 330 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: I could see the steps I had to make. I 331 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: could see the dangers and how to protect against them. 332 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: The only problem was I didn't know where I'd end 333 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: up on the other side. So even though this had 334 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: cost her her job, her family, her domestic life, she 335 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: still continued to work with Dr Benjamin to transition right. 336 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: And there were so many, as that quote described, challenges 337 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: and obstacles beyond what we've already talked about, which is 338 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: already a lot, so so, so so much. Um so, 339 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: can you talk about some of the challenges that we're 340 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: that conway faced around this transition, Absolutely so, as a 341 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: lot of trans folks will probably tell you some of 342 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: the logistics around transition. You know, things like changing your name, 343 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: getting new identification and paperwork canna be a big part 344 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: of navigating trans identity so that you can work and 345 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 1: ear an income and have a bank account and get 346 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: a place to live. Even today, this process is really 347 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: complicated and sometimes like prohibitively expensive. Uh. And again I'm 348 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: sad to say that not a lot. You know, it 349 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 1: was hard back then, and unfortunately it's it's hard today. 350 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: Unfortunately a lot of trans folks don't have the supporter 351 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: resources they need to navigate it. According to the National 352 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: Transgender Discrimination Survey, only one fifth of trans people who 353 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: have transition have been able to update all of their 354 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: ideas and records with their new gender, and one third 355 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: have not been able to update any of their ideas 356 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: or records. Um Luckily for Conway, she was able to 357 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: use connections that Dr Benjamin had in Oakland, California to 358 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: get it done quickly with as you might imagine, was 359 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: really really important to avoid suspicion back then, because you know, 360 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: it could easily turn unsafe if somebody suspected, you know 361 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: that you were transitioning or that you were trans and 362 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: so being able to navigate this quickly was of the 363 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: utmost importance for her. She has this quote. She says, 364 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: you were an undocumented alien from Mars. You don't have 365 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: a birth certificate. How are you going to get a job. 366 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: This was the sixties. You can think of it like 367 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: being a spy in a foreign country. If you were 368 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: found out, you'd be dealt with immediately. If not by 369 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: the police, then my people on the streets. Um. And 370 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: so it's probably clear that why after actually going through 371 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: this transition, Conway started the period of her life but 372 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: she refers to as her the stealth phase of her career. Okay, 373 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: so this entire thing feels like it should be a 374 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: giant movie, right, should be a featured movie somehow, whether 375 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: it's like uh, coming of age and or just overall like, yeah, 376 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: it couldn't like a spy movie in the industry, but 377 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: it's not. I'm just saying that from her quote in itself. 378 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: But it's an amazing account of all of the things 379 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: that she has gone through. Feel like, hello, actors, this 380 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: is an Oscar yes level of performers if you can 381 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: get it, and it should be done by a twins 382 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: woman obviously, Yes, can you talk I want to see this. 383 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: Can you talk about this stealth base? But yeah, I'm 384 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: really into the movie now. Yes. So in Conway changed 385 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: her name, hit her gender identity, and started looking for 386 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: work and computing. Eventually, she found a job as a 387 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: contract programmer, which is like pretty entry level, but because 388 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: she is like a badass. She pretty quickly moved up. 389 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: She later worked at Memorex and then landed what I'm 390 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: calling the big account you know in movies and someone's like, oh, 391 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: we got a big account, Like this was Conway's like 392 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: her big account working at Xerox as Palo Alto Research Center, 393 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: which is a huge, huge deal. And again, because she 394 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: is a badass, she immediately started like kicking ass, just 395 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: like she had before at IBM before getting fired. So 396 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: that is to look own city and my my making 397 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: that up is at the beginning. Yeah, I think that's 398 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: like that like the Pilicon Valley area, you were, like, 399 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: that was like where so many of the technological innovations 400 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: that like we still have today that really shaped like 401 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: where computers and technology and smartphones ended up going. So 402 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: much of that research happened right there. So like the 403 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: big account, So she literally was at the beginning of 404 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: what is known as one of the biggest technological industrial 405 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: times of our age. Wow. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And again 406 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: like that alone even if like, like I find her 407 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: story so fascinating and inspiring, but like that alone is 408 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: a huge deal, right, Like we haven't even gotten into 409 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: some of the other parts of her life. But that alone, 410 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: being a trans woman at the forefront and the precedice 411 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: of all of these things that would go on to 412 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: revolutionize all of our lives is so interesting to me, 413 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: Like that alone would be a huge accomplishment. Yes, and 414 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: speaking of of there were many other accomplishments that she 415 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: she was taking part in during this time, right, that's right. 416 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: So I have to give a little bit of a 417 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: caveatlet like, I am not an engineer, so engineers who 418 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: are listening, don't come after me if I say the 419 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: wrong thing. I'm I'm summarizing. I am a I am 420 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: a non hard tech person, summarizing someone who was like 421 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: one of the most brilliant tech minds on the planet. 422 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: So give me some just know that. So, her work 423 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: completely revolutionized how microchips were designed, and she sometimes called 424 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: the Hidden Hands, like that's her nickname for this work 425 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: and how it led to the tech revolution in the 426 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, and again it's like a big part 427 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: of the reason why we have smartphones and personal computers. 428 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: But even while she was accomplishing all of these important innovations, 429 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: she really couldn't own them because of her identity. Again, 430 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: she says that she was working in sort of stealth 431 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: mode where she was just kind of purposely staying behind 432 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: the scenes despite creating these innovations that would literally go 433 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: on to change the world. Um and during this time, 434 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: her train in's identity was not public knowledge. She only 435 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: told close friends or like hr people or people who 436 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: were needed to like do her security clearance, And she 437 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: purposely made herself scarce and stayed behind the scenes, you know, 438 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: hence the nickname the Hidden Hand. But that meant all 439 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: of her accomplishments and innovations they also stayed behind the 440 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: scenes too. And you know, it's one of those things 441 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: where this is not like you know, people are like, oh, 442 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: women's history is all of our history, or black history 443 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: is all of our history, or trans histories all of 444 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: our history. This is you know, everybody uses a computer 445 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: or a smartphone for the most part, and like, transphobia 446 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: almost kept us from having a full accounting of this 447 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: history that shaped all of our lives, right like Lin 448 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: Conway touched like her work touched all of us, and 449 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: we almost did not get a full accounting of it 450 00:24:48,000 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: because of the harmful legacy of transphobia and transphobic systems. Okay, 451 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: can we first say that the Hidden Hand is the 452 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: title of the movie, right right, if there are any 453 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: like movie exact listening like the Hand in Hand perfect. 454 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: Maybe I've been watching Way to Me martial arts film, 455 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: but I'm like, wait, wait, wait, this is like Asian 456 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: level of martial arts stealth movie. I don't know what's happening, 457 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: but I'm seeing it. Maybe just needs to be transformed 458 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: into that. I don't know, um, but yeah, I hate that. 459 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: This is once again when we talk about women in history, 460 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: especially women in marginalized communities, how they literally have to 461 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: shrink in order to accomplish what they have to do 462 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: quote unquote, to live what they need to do and 463 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: be who they need to be. To shrink and disappear 464 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: into the background so they don't make too much noise. 465 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: And that is what has been taught for so long, 466 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: and this is one of the prime examples for so 467 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: many specially again within the queer community. Yeah, within like 468 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: women colors, especially black women, being told yeah, you can 469 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: do it, but you don't be loud about it because 470 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: then you're just gonna cost too much of a ruckas 471 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: and your personal life. You just being you will be 472 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: a distraction, And I'm enraged right now just thinking about 473 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: it as I continue on, because this is such a 474 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: pattern with our society and the misogynistic idea overall, that 475 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: this is how it should have been, and this is 476 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: how everybody accepted it and was okay with it. And 477 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: I'm reading all the things that you put in here, 478 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, wow, wow, Like, how how do 479 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: you keep going? How do you continue to persevere and 480 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: create these amazing things when there's so much against you, 481 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: when you're being continually told don't exist point blank? I 482 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: mean I I it's it's enraging. And it's like, you know, 483 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: you were talking about these conversations you were having over 484 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: the holidays with your family. I think for a lot 485 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: of people it's exact me what you said. It's I 486 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: don't hate queer people. I don't hate trans people. I 487 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: just don't want to. I don't want to think I 488 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: have to think about them. I don't want them to 489 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: take up too much space, like this idea that you know. 490 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: I remember having similar conversations with my family where they 491 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: would be like, well, I just don't want to shove 492 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: in my face, and it's like, no one shoving it 493 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: any like like. For for some people, just existing is 494 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: shoving it in your face, right, just like taking up 495 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: space and being yourself is equated with like quote shoving 496 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: it in someone's space. And so I I agree. I 497 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: think that it's such a pattern where women, queer folks, 498 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: trans folks, black folks, folks of color. The only way 499 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: that we're told that we can safely exist is if 500 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: we shrink ourselves and sort of try to disappear and 501 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: try to stay off the radar. And it breaks my 502 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: heart that that's what Lynn Conway had to do. But again, 503 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: what could we acco what kind of world could we 504 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: live in if all these folks didn't feel like that's 505 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 1: what they had to do just to exist, I mean 506 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: literally to be able to say I'm here and this 507 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: is who I am in the story. And she's not 508 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: asking for recognition, she never was. She just wanted to be. 509 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's where I I want to throw things, 510 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: throw things in lots of people, especially obviously the people 511 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: who are ignorant and are continue to spread these types 512 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: of hate and this type of environment, saying that the 513 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: only way that we are happy is if my norm 514 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 1: from way back when, which is uh, staped in misogyny 515 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: staped and patriarchy staped in racism that if this exists, 516 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: that I'm okay as long as you don't you you 517 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: don't exist in my world and I don't have to 518 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: think about you. And that's just a whole other level. 519 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: But you know what, if this is the movie, I 520 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: feel like this is the arc where she's becomes triumphant. Yeah, yes, yes, 521 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: so this is where I think it gets so interesting. 522 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: So basically, Hanaway had made all of these big contributions, 523 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: not just during her time at RATS, but also going 524 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,719 Speaker 1: back to when she was still at IBM, and you know, 525 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: at this point, none of these contributions were really attributed 526 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: to her. In computer historian began investigating her early innovations 527 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: at IBM, which tipped her off that other people had 528 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: been taking credit or had been like kind of sort 529 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: of low key taking credit for the work at IBM 530 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: that she had done under a different name. She wanted 531 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: to correct the record, but in order to do so, 532 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: she knew that she would need to open up about 533 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: her identity and explain why somebody with a different name 534 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: had made all of these big contributions and accomplishments that 535 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: she was saying actually belonged to her, And so she 536 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: ended up telling this computer historian and then quietly added 537 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: a quote gender transition section to her own website. And 538 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: this small, quiet decision is what really sparked the next 539 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: chapter of her life as this you know, outspoken advocate 540 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: for trans rights. And what an interesting conundrum that would 541 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: be to say, like, well, I want to correct the record. 542 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: I want people to know that that this was me, 543 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: that I did this work. But in order to do that, 544 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: I really have to, you know, open up about my 545 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: identity in a way that I haven't really been so 546 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: comfortable with before. And so how interesting it is that 547 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: that personal choice and that personal you know conundrum for 548 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: Linn Conway would go on to broaden all of our 549 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: understanding of our world and all of our understanding of 550 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: like why we have the technology that we do and 551 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: who is responsible for it? And so I just always 552 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: thought it was an interesting way that like this personal 553 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: dilemma for Conway had these massive global implications for all 554 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: of us and our understanding of technology and the internet 555 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: and history. Right. Yeah, It's one of those things where 556 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,719 Speaker 1: for for some people that would be such a like 557 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: minor thing, but that's huge to have to make that 558 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: decision and to also, like way, the implications of your 559 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: personal life on something that, again for a lot of 560 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: people might be pretty minor, but this is It changes 561 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: Lynn Conway's life, and it changes all of ours and 562 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: all of the the understanding and information we have about 563 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: things we do use all of the time and who's 564 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: behind those and who is responsible for those And yeah, 565 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: it's not an easy thing to do at all. But 566 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: also yeah, this really led her down this path of 567 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: advocating for trans rights right absolutely, So, the list of 568 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: all the different ways that she became this outspoken advocate 569 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: for trans rights, it's very, very long. She's given support 570 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: and assistance to many trans women who were going through transition, 571 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: and she was an advocate for employment protections for trans 572 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: folks and then also just a general advocate for trans 573 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: folks in technology. M One of my favorite things about 574 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: her that she has done is that Conway and Leandra 575 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: Vicky of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill sunfestively 576 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: lobbied the Board of Directors of the Institute of Electrical 577 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: and Electronics Engineers, which is essentially a code of ethics 578 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: pertaining to the engineering profession to include trans identity, which 579 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: impacts you know, the largest engineering professional society today, and 580 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: so that's going to have like global, far reaching impacts 581 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: to make that trans inclusive. And so that was work 582 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: that she was able to do because she had become 583 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: this like outspoken advocate for trans right and then like, yeah, 584 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: just you know, I'm so happy that she had this 585 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: time in her life where she was able to be 586 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: a vocal advocate for her people and make make change 587 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: for other people coming up in technology, Like I think 588 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: that's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, Well, and I gotta ask, 589 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: did did IBM ever, you know, come back with the apology? Well, 590 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: so that's a great question. So you're probably thinking, Wow, 591 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: Conaway is basically this like world changing badass, who is 592 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: the reason we have smartphones? I Ben really messed up 593 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: by firing her, And they would agree. After over fifty 594 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: years of silence about how they treated lind Conway, finally 595 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: in October, IBM invited their staff to an event called 596 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: tech Trailblazers and transgender pioneer Lynn Conway in conversation with 597 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: Diane Gearson. And Gearson, at the time was IBM senior 598 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: vice president of Human Resources and The event started with 599 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: a formal apology to Conway for her transphobic firing fifty 600 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: two years earlier, and Conway said that when this was happening, 601 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: she was like struggling to hold back tears. And not 602 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: only did they apologize, but they also recognized her immense 603 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: and deep contributions to IBM's work that again had just 604 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: gone like unattributed because they fired her. So they fired 605 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: her to avoid being associated with a trans woman, and 606 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: so they couldn't very well be like, oh, well, all 607 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: these different things we are contributions we have because of 608 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: this trans woman we fired for being trans. So they 609 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: basically just like overlooked and unattributed all of this work 610 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: that she had done. Dario Gil, director of IBM Research, 611 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: presented Conway with a Lifetime Achievement Award, given to individuals 612 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: who have changed the world through technological innovations, and Gil 613 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: noted that Lynn's extraordinary technical achievements helped to find the 614 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: modern computing industry. She paved the way for how we 615 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,479 Speaker 1: design and make computing ships today and forever changed micro 616 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: electronics devices and people's lives. And again, you know, it 617 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: was fifty two years later that this company finally acknowledged 618 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: that after she was fired in nineteen that her research 619 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: was still aiding IBM success today. A spokesperson for IBM said, 620 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen sive Lynn created the Architectural Level Advanced Computing 621 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: System one simulator and invented a method that led to 622 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: the development of a super scalar computer. This dynamic instruction 623 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: scheduling invention was later used to computer ships greatly improving 624 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: their performance UM and so basically all that is to say, 625 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: finally IBM was like, oh yeah, this like groundbreaking research 626 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: that she did we still used today and like actually 627 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: really helped us today. And you know it just for me, 628 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: it's like, finally, fifty two years later you can apologize 629 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: and acknowledge, and Conway said of the event, instead of 630 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: just be being a resolution of what happened in nineteen, 631 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: it became a heartfelt group celebration of how far we've 632 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: all come since then. Wait, so did the dude that 633 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: fired her? Was he still alive? Because I just really 634 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: need to know that he needs to know agize. I 635 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: really need to see this. I want him sitting in 636 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: the board meeting hearing this conversation and then saying, you 637 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: know what, this is your fault. You messed up and 638 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: we're having to do this to do a majacopa because 639 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: of what you did. I really need that. In the 640 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: back of my head, I want a if he I 641 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: don't know if he's still alive, but if you're if 642 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: he is, I want a personalized video message apology. This 643 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: this is what I need. And you know what, because 644 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: I feel like again, this is a movie in my 645 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: head that I've been playing for the last thirty and 646 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: watch some thirty in one minute. I need to know. 647 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: I need to see the scene of her standing by 648 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: the river with her nice home, talking about her sitting 649 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: with hopefully her children and our grandchildren, and just talking 650 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: about where she is today. So can you please finish 651 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: out this conclusion that I desperately need. Oh my god, 652 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: I'm happy to you. And this is something else that 653 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: I love about her story is that she's still very 654 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: much alive Janie Ray. Second, she celebrated her eighty five birthday, 655 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: so just a few weeks ago, Happy birthday. And something 656 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: else that I love about her story is that like 657 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: she You know, when I was researching for this episode, 658 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: I found all these great videos of her. She is 659 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: living her best life. She lives on twenty four beautiful 660 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: acres of meadow marsh and woodlands and rural Michigan with 661 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: her husband, where they spend all of their time like 662 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: exploring the outdoors, you know. And I saw these videos 663 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: of them writing like four wheelers together on their property 664 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: and like canoeing together and like climbing together, and I 665 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: just felt like, I'm so happy that she is like 666 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: living her best life and she's still an amazing activist. 667 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: You can follow her on Twitter at Lynn Conway. And yeah, 668 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: I just I'm so happy that her already ends with 669 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: her with a loving husband, living her best life in 670 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: Michigan exploring the outdoors. Yes, and I love that this 671 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: theme of like adventure and canoeing has been so foundational 672 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: and helped her through these like tough times in her life. 673 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: And now she has all this land and she gets 674 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: to still explore those things that bring her joy. That 675 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: makes me very happy. Yeah, it's really sweet. Like if 676 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: anybody like, definitely google that, you can google pictures of 677 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: her and google videos of her on her property and 678 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: like it's it's the cutest. It like melted my heart 679 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: and made me very very happy. We're trying you Samantha, 680 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: I feel like you need to be attached to this 681 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: project if everything your heart is I'm just exploding, like 682 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: this is what I needed today. The feel good but 683 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: like heartwrenching tell of coming through all the trials and tribulation, 684 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: then then coming to the end with her massive property, happily, 685 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: withholding hands of her husband, loving life. It makes me 686 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: so happy, and I just gotta say, like, you know, 687 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: trans people like lind Conway deserve to live full, beautiful 688 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: lives that account for their contributions and their brilliance. And 689 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: they deserve that regardless of where they are on their journeys, 690 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: you know, transition. Like obviously this story was very foth 691 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: focused around Conway's transition, but transition means different things to 692 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: different people, Like it can mean personal and medical and 693 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: legal steps, or like telling someone's family and friends and 694 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 1: co workers, or using a different name or new pronouns, 695 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: or dressing differently, or it can be different things for 696 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: different people, And as we discussed earlier, you know, it 697 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: can be really financially prohibitive for many and so regardless 698 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: of whether or not Transpolkes are able to transition the 699 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: way that Conway did, they deserve to live full lives 700 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: like they deserve whatever their particular version of a twenty 701 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: four acre farm on the woodlands and rural Michigan is 702 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: like they deserve that, whether they can transition the way 703 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: that she did or not. And so, you know, I 704 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: and it's want to say that because I think that 705 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: sometimes it can feel like the reason why her story 706 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: gets a happy ending is because she was able to transition. 707 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: And I think that everybody deserves a full life and 708 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: a happy ending, regardless of where they are on that journey. 709 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the end goal is let people live 710 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: their best life, to truly have the freedom and the 711 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: peace and and and I'm happy of pursuit of happiness 712 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: as they should, because this is about them, it's not 713 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: about us. When people are disenfranchised and pushed to the 714 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: point of being non existent, that's when we lose great minds, 715 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: and that's what we lose greatness in general. And I 716 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: breaks my heart obviously, um as as you have brought 717 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: the story to us that this is a good ending, 718 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: and I love that we can celebrate her while she's 719 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: still here and give her the flowers that she deserves 720 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: while she's still here. But at the same time. You know, 721 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: we can't look past the fact that she had to 722 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: go through this in the first place, and though she 723 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: was able to get through it, thank God that she 724 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: was she was able to There's so many others who 725 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: are pushed beyond those boundaries, and that we don't get 726 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: to celebrate who they are um because of hate and 727 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: ignorance and the continue need to erase and completely censure 728 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: these amazing people just for who they are, just for 729 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: living and we cannot be quiet and belittle um. The 730 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: fact that this is an ongoing issue today and the 731 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: many who have been killed, the many who have died 732 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: by suicide, Like all of these things are important that 733 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: we keep talking about what great success can look like. 734 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: But the fact that that she shouldn't have to have 735 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: gone through have the that she had to go through 736 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: and had the many of these people have to go through. Absolutely. 737 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the reasons why her story 738 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: sticks with me, because it just reminds me to sell 739 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,359 Speaker 1: it to like build the monuments to these marginalized people 740 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: who are so often erased, and do so as a 741 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: way to honor the people who didn't make it, the 742 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: people whose voices and whose stories we won't here the 743 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: people who are making contributions that we don't know about 744 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: right now, right that we won't find out about. And so, 745 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's so important that we not 746 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: just like you said that, we don't let sexist, racist, 747 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: transphobic systems erase these accomplishments because they are important to 748 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: all of us. There there are history as it's just 749 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: as people as humans. And so it's you really said it, 750 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: like it's so important to me and it. Conway has 751 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: this great piece kind of looking back on her life 752 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: in the Huffingland Post and it ends with this great line, 753 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: bottom line, if you want to change the future, start 754 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: living as if you're already there. And I love that 755 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: for her. I love the idea of all of us 756 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: taking responsibility to sort of create the world we want 757 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: to see and build these these monuments to these marginalized 758 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: voices that we desperately need. So, Lynn Conway, you are 759 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: a hero. You are incredible. Your story is amazing. You 760 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: are a badass, And I'm so glad that we can 761 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: talk about her while she's still alive, like we can 762 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: go tweet that or if you wanted, Like that's incredible. 763 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: That is living history that is contete at her from 764 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: the technologist she helped create. That got me really excited. Um, 765 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: and thank you Bridget for bringing this story for always, 766 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, finding these these things that we might have 767 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: missed that are so important, are so so valuable for 768 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: us to know and talk about. Um. So we really 769 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: appreciate it. And thank you thinking, thank you, oh, thank 770 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: you for giving me a space to do it. This 771 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: is my favorite thing to do in the world. It 772 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: makes me so happy. So thanks thanks to the both 773 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: of you. Yes, um, well I can't wait to do 774 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: it again. We'll see what we can get moving with 775 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: this motion picture deal. Um. But in the meantime, Bridget, 776 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,839 Speaker 1: where can the good listeners find you? You can find 777 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: me at my own podcast called There Are No Girls 778 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: on the Internet or We Love digging into the unexplored, 779 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: overlooked history of marginalized folks and how they shape technology 780 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: and the Internet. You can find me on Instagram at 781 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: Bridget Marine d C and on better probably tweeting at 782 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: Lynn Conway how much I love her at Bridget Murray. Yes, 783 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Definitely go check all 784 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 1: that stuff out, listeners if you haven't already, Thank you again. 785 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: Bridget and to wait to hang out again in this 786 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:21,720 Speaker 1: virtual weird pandemic setting. And thank you listeners for listening. 787 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: If you want to contact us, you can our email 788 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: stuff Idia, mom Stuff at I Hurt mea dot com. 789 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast 790 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: or Instagram and stuff One Never Told You. Thanks as 791 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you and thanks 792 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff One Never Told The Strotection 793 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 1: by Hour Radio for more podcast from My Hear Radio, 794 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: I Heard You app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to 795 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.