1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: You can't play goun On this edition of the Taken 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: a Walk Podcast, I'm here in Cherry Hill, New Jersey 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: to meet up with one of the greatest keyboard players 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: of our generation. Billy Payne is a founding member of 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: the amazing band Little Feet. Simply put, they changed my 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: life when I saw them many years ago at the 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: University of Cincinnati Fieldhouse. Boz Skaggs was on the bill, 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: but the deal was Little Feet at that show, and 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: it was possibly the greatest performance that I ever saw. 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Let's go take a walk with Billy Payne. Taking a 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: Walk buzz night. Well, Billy Payne, it is so great 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: to be with you. Taken a Walk. How are you, 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: my friend? You know I feel good. It's been an 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: intense month or so. Last night we played what You 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: Were There at the Beacon Theater in New York, and 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: the audience, not only there but every place we've played, 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: has just been They've been a static. I think they're 18 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: coming with this expectation that will be good, but they 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: don't know. Although the word is out now that the 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: drum beat is that we're doing okay. But in the beginning, 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: we'd hit the stage and I'd be looking at people 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: and they are like, please make this work. And when 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: they hear it from the opening salvos of the concert, 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: they're like, they kind of relax and then they just 25 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: it's just pure joy. And I feel so proud to 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: be a part of that. It is pure joy. The 27 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: audience loves that. It's the anniversary waiting for Columbus Tour 28 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: kind of sort of right, mean, yeah, it's forty five years, 29 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: which is you know, an interesting usually wait till fifty years. 30 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: I think choosing forty five years is a good thing. 31 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: I just turned seventy three in March. I play like 32 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: I'm a twenty year old, but facts are facts. I 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: love it. I love how you're playing. I love how 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: the band is playing. So when did you first realize 35 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: that you were hooked on being a musician. Well, I 36 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: think that's an excellent question. I was going, I'll twist 37 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: it just a little bit and say that I realized 38 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: that I was a musician first when my wood shop teacher, 39 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: mister O'Connell said, i'll give you a passing grade bill, 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: but stay away from the sauce. I stuck with you. 41 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: It was in seventh grade. I went, really, he knows 42 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: that I play well. I'd been playing for a while. 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: I started playing piano when I was five, taking lessons 44 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: from Ruth Newman and Ventura. But I think so when 45 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: I was fifteen and started playing in a band, I 46 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: think they kind of solidified the camaraderie of what it 47 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: is to be in a band. And it's odd, because 48 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: there's so many things in life you think, Oh, I'm 49 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: from the g S. Groucho March school. I thought, which 50 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: is I would never accept an invitation to a club 51 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: that would bring me as a member. And yet I 52 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: gotta say that being a musician and being in a 53 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: band is the ultimate club, other than maybe being a 54 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: president or somebody like that. Keith Richards, when I was 55 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: in Amsterdam seventy four maybe seventy five, we were down 56 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: the basement with the stones, had come on Moss to 57 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: hear Little Feet play John Eaton Hall, I think it's 58 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: called and I'm down there. I'm going, oh Keith, Oh 59 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: my gosh. He grabbed me around his shoulder, pulled me 60 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: ENTI and he says, all night, We're all part of 61 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: the same cloth. And it was like welcome to the 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: club bill, you know. And then when I was reading 63 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: his biography. I can't remember the other fellow that wrote 64 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: it with him, but he was had a similar thing 65 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: when he was in the dressing room with Muddy Waters 66 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: and little Richard right, and he thought, well, those are 67 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: the cats. I must be one of the cats too. 68 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: So that was what he was sharing with me. And 69 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: I've done that since with a lot of musicians, because 70 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: we are a part of something not super special, but 71 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: it's nice to be in that crowd, and the energy 72 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: that comes from playing for an audience, right, is so special. Yeah, 73 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: especially now, buzz. I mean, not that it wasn't before, 74 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: but I think music has taken on a larger role. 75 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: And for this reason, I'll tie it into Richard Goodwin's 76 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: book where which I've just started. And that that book, 77 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I I'll say it again, is it's called 78 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: Remembering America A Voice from the Sixties. Fabulous book. Yeah. 79 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: This man wrote speeches for uh John Kennedy, for for 80 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: his brother Robert, later, for g Eugene McCarthy, and for 81 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: Linda Johnson, I believe, and he looked at the Sixties 82 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: as a failure, which indeed it was in many respects. 83 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: We find ourselves now two thousand, twenty two and in 84 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: the pandemic out in two thousand twenty. We're in that 85 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: precipice again of what is America is? Is it a failure? 86 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: Are we? And I I I the way I've I've 87 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: sort of compartmentalized it is we We are an aspirational country. 88 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: Our ideals are aspirational. I wrote song called when All 89 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: Boats Ride. Somebody wrote back to me that combat it. Well, 90 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't have a boat, I said, it's not about 91 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: you having a boat, okay, I mean it's aspirationally we 92 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: ought to all have boats that will rise together when 93 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: when the tidings are good and when the tides are in. 94 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: But we don't have liberty and justice for all either, 95 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: which is aspirational. So so for me, what is happening 96 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: is is music is now finding people together. We don't 97 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: in that audience. Nobody was discussing politics last night. They're digging, 98 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, Fatman the Batub. They're singing along with Will 99 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: and I mean, we can get a fite soon enough, 100 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: but it's nice to have something where we can kind 101 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: of relieve the pressure a little bit. And thus music 102 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: is more important around it has never been. Yeah, I 103 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: got chills when you're talking about it, because really I 104 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: talk about this and we take it a walk podcast. 105 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: You know, why is music so important? Why is it 106 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: so special? Why does it do the things in such 107 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: a wonderful way to us that it does. It touches us, 108 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: it lifts us up, It brings us down in us 109 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: at certain times. Yes, but it's it's such an amazing thing. 110 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: So I'm so glad you touched on the the emotion 111 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: of it, and in a way that the neuroscience of 112 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: it too. Yeah. I think that the it is not 113 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: a benign art. I mean, Hitler used it to great effect. 114 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: Trump used it to great effect with however, he put 115 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: it together to stir people's souls in a certain way. 116 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: So it does not benign. But ultimately it can be 117 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: uplifting and and again bind us rather than pull us apart. 118 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: We just need those areas where it's like when you 119 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: get sick, your body's finding something that it can't control, 120 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: and what what doctors try to provide and and oftentimes 121 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: they can, but but most stuff has got to come 122 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: through your your heads, through your brains, and and that 123 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: part of it is allowing a a pressure release so 124 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: your body can begin to function again. If this doesn't 125 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: do it. If if if if, if things are tight 126 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: and fighting against each other, if it could never works. 127 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: So if there's that analogy too, and the uh religious 128 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: component which is uh crazy, which we don't have to 129 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: get into, but I I would just uh suggest it 130 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: with with with Abraham Lincoln who said, well, I don't 131 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: remember the quote, but it's about which God is on 132 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: our side? Is the is on our sides? On the Confederacy? 133 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: You know, we've we've always got that that thing going on, 134 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: So we pick and choose. It's like a Chinese menu 135 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: with people on our uh, our values and beliefs and 136 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: core core systems that we operate from. So on this 137 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: day that we're taking a walk, coincidentally, it also happens 138 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:13,239 Speaker 1: to be the birthday of LITL. George, which is pretty remarkable. 139 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: So tell me what you remember about the first time 140 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: you met old George. I was driving from Santa Barbara 141 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: actually ile Vista. I think it was where I was 142 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: sleeping the prepolse apartments. I was sleeping on the beach. 143 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: I was scared to death driving on the freeways in 144 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: La so I hug the right hand lane almost the 145 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: entire way down by the way I still am scared 146 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: to death when I drive there. I don't blame you. 147 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: You just have to say, Gene Hackman in the French Connection. 148 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: You just have to put the gas on the pedal 149 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: and hope you hit. You close your eyes from Tenden's 150 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: and dream. Anyway, I drove on Lawell's house. He was near. 151 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: It was on Rowena, near Silver Lake, but not It 152 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: was just west of Silver Lake and I can't remember 153 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: the name of the town. There was a little rustic 154 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: homb just off the street. The door was opened. I 155 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: heard some eric satti floating out of the front door. 156 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 1: I walked up. There was this beautiful blonde girl, short 157 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: pixie kind of cut haircut and a cross leg and 158 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: on the floor says, oh, you must be Bill. Lowell's 159 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: expecting you. He'll be back in five hours. I said, well, 160 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: what does he do when he's not expecting you? So 161 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: I went in there five hours. She said, yeah, what's 162 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: he doing when he's not expecting you? So I get 163 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: in there and I started. First thing I see other 164 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: than her and listening to this beautiful music is on 165 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: the back wall there was a samurai sword. To the 166 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: right of that corner was a citar. Adjacent to the 167 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: citar was a library that had books by Carl Sandberg, 168 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: Allen Ginsburg hal I think, oh, Last Exit to Brooklyn, 169 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: which is a brutal book. Don't look it up, everybody, Uh, 170 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: let's see. And then then he had this record collection, 171 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: which was John Coltrane home. He had a couple of 172 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: albums by Muddy Waters and Helen Wolf Jester Burnett. He 173 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: also had this, uh this record the that had joined 174 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: the band on it, and it was a Smithsonian recording 175 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: of like Chain Gang Music, Oh Love It, John e VNN, 176 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: Big Bull, Rat Gun John and the Vann which we 177 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: opened up waiting for Columbus with so all the all 178 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: that stuff was there, and but time he came in 179 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: there there was this famous story of Jay Gavara and 180 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: Fidel Castro. For the first time they met, they talked 181 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: about everything under the sun. And that's kind of the 182 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: way Low and I hit it off. By time he 183 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: got there, I actually felt I kind of knew him, 184 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: but I didn't know him, and so we just discussed 185 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: everything and it was like I did join the band. 186 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: That evening. I'd come to Los Angeles Sustins to meet 187 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: Frank Zappa. Well, Frank Silver in Europe. So the record 188 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: company after's many many calls, which I did with a 189 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: phony credit card, much like Steve Jobs and his partners. 190 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: Everyone was using these cards to make calls. And well, 191 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: I'm Bill Payne and who what? I played keyboards? I think, 192 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: and uh yes, that thing so as nervous as hell. 193 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to start, and they finally cooked 194 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: me up with Lowell, and yeah, the guy was just 195 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: such an engaging, warm human being. I just felt like, well, 196 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: this is cool. He said, we'll come back in a 197 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: couple of weeks and let's try and write something. So 198 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: I did, and I think one of the we were 199 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: writing all these crazy songs that we presented to Ahmed 200 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: Irning and dancing a new biole version. Slaves was one 201 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: of them. It was an instrumental and I don't know 202 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: what else we had, but but Ahmed heard the stuff 203 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: and he looks at us, he goes, boys, it's too diverse. 204 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: And we went back to the drawing room and I 205 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: think we started writing Truckstop Girl, Brides of Jesus, Gunboat, Captain, Gunboat, 206 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: Willie Strawberry Flats. I mean, all these Hamburger Midnight so 207 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: all these songs that the titles alone suggested there's some 208 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: real eclectic thought going on, and there was, so you 209 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: can only imagine what we played for Ahmed to have 210 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: him say it was too diverse. Yeah, and I think 211 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: that's the essence of Little eight dozens of where Lol 212 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: and I saw the vision for this band was its eclecticism. 213 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: It was an open proposition. Do we need horns, do 214 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: we need another guitar player? Do we want somebody else 215 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: to fill in on keyboards every now and then? What 216 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: are we gonna do. Let's leave it open, Let's bring 217 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: what we need when we need it. And it kind 218 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: of set the tone of where we are now, which is, 219 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: how can we call this band little feet. We don't 220 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: have Law, we don't have Richie Hayward our drummer, we 221 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: don't have Paul Brer, we passed away in twenty nineteen. 222 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: We do it because we have the music, the catalog, 223 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: and we're still writing. I've written twenty songs with Robert Hunter. 224 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: I've written nine songs I think with Paul muldoon, who 225 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: just did the editing for Paul McCartney's Book of Lyrics. 226 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: He wrote the forward as well. So there's it kind 227 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: of boils down to music. And for a guy that 228 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: was brought up playing classical music, I think, well, all right, 229 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Beethoven's not around, we still play his music. One guy 230 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: years ago I was was saying, not to me personally, 231 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: but they talk to a friendly this. He goes, well, 232 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: why why is Bill playing you know, New Orleans music? 233 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: He's not from there. Well, my parents were married there, 234 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: so that's okay. But I told the guy, I said, well, 235 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: tell him, I'm not from Vienna and I played Mozart. 236 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm not from Hamburg and I played Beethoven? Is that 237 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: okay with him? I love it, and I love how 238 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: you brought a full circle to the present in terms 239 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: of where Little Feet is today. Yeah, and where that 240 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: foundation that you and Lowell sort of laid out really 241 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: to this day is the backbone of what Feet is 242 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: all about, right you you know, stay true to that. Yeah. 243 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: I think very few bands of a North Store, very 244 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: few people do. I mean, it's not anything you contemplate. 245 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: I mean, even when Long and I were sorting that out, 246 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: I didn't project, you know, fifty years in the future 247 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: plus to say this is what I would be doing. 248 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I knew I'd be playing music. I mean, 249 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: the only gig I've ever had, a legitimate gig I've 250 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: ever had, was a paperboy, so I played music my 251 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: live But yeah, it's an extraordinary thing to be able 252 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: to converse with people in many different creative ways. What 253 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: is through my photography, through my writing, through my music, 254 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: through songwriting, So there's a lot of subsets to everything, right, 255 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: and this is the friends I mean to have this 256 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: conversation with you, buzz. I mean, these are the things 257 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: you hope will happen in the beginning, that you'll be 258 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: connected to inquisitive people and the curse of the Chinese 259 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: living interesting times, which we definitely do, but have people 260 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: that you can lean on during those times that uh 261 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: don't necessarily hold the same beliefs, but but hold that 262 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: that deeper belief and that there's a path we have 263 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: in front of us. There are divergent paths. How do 264 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: we ultimately connect through all of that? That that to 265 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: me is the thing that really works. So it's I'm 266 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: not a purist. If I want to play some jazz 267 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: and throw in some stuff, that's that's what we took 268 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: the audience on last night Rock and Roll with Oh 269 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: Atlanta with Fat Man and the Bathtub with Paul's pauls 270 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: to an old folks boogie and you pop in a 271 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: day or night mercing their territory and it just takes 272 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: you to another world. And it's like, that's what that 273 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: trans formative and transportation of music is the most fun 274 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: donal play. And we're listening while we play, obviously, but 275 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: I every down when we'll look out at the audience 276 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, this is a time to sit down. 277 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: Let this music wash over. I mean, now we can 278 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: get up and dance. So what we want to do. 279 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: And you can't make anybody do anything. There's not que cars. 280 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: Anym got up and dance. Everyone they either do it 281 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: or they don't. There's still the adage of the gig itself. 282 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: I think it was Goldwin who said, if they're not 283 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: going to show up, you can't stop them. You know. 284 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: When I first went to that show that I referenced 285 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: at the University of Cincinnati Fieldhouse to show that I 286 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: believe sort of changed my life in terms of the 287 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: magic of an amazing performance. I remember some of my 288 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: buddies from the University of Dayton where I went to school, 289 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: saying you gotta check this band out. You've never heard 290 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: anything like this band. And that's what we did then, right. 291 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: We were guys who were starting out at the radio 292 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: station back there, and we just shared experiences before there 293 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: was you know, social networks and everything, and they said, 294 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: you gotta listen to this band. There's nothing like you've 295 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: ever heard before. You can't compare them to anybody, which 296 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: is so true. And then they were like, you gotta 297 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: go see this band. So you know, I'm so grateful 298 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: for them turning me on to you guys. And I'll 299 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: never I'll never forget it, really, you know. So what 300 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: led to the period with Lowell deciding he had had enough. 301 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: I know, he had put out the solo album and everything. 302 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: I mean there were differences, right yeah, he and I 303 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: were logger hats, and I'd actually quit the band. I said, 304 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: I can't take this man. We take two steps forward, 305 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: three steps back, one step forward, et cetera, and I 306 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: gotta do something else. If you want to continue a 307 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: little feet, please do what I would suggest you do. However, 308 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: is you love producing albums, Produce a couple more records. 309 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: Do your solo thing. You've been working on that for 310 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: a long time, get out there and play your music 311 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: and then test the waters and see what you need 312 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: to make yourself happy that is not happening right now. 313 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: And when you're unhappy, it's like it just I'm not 314 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: easy to get along with sometimes, and so we just 315 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: kind of let it go. But it was under that 316 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: that guys that he went on that last tour, and 317 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: then I got the call that he had passed away 318 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Following by all accounts of brilliant 319 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: performance of as solo Endeavors and Fred Tackett was out 320 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: on that tour. So and you had been doing so much, 321 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: uh like session work also, right, you had work with 322 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: so many people from obviously Jackson Brown to Bob Seeker 323 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: and Doobie Brothers, and so you you had some side 324 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: action going on always, right, always, Even when I was 325 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: in Santa Mario, there was a I was with a 326 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: group called the Devon Airs, but there was a a 327 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: group called the s Chevrons. Is I I'd sitting with them, 328 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I was always sitting with people cause 329 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: I've I had the acumen to to play just about anything, 330 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: not not everything. So in low Pass I I uh 331 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: I wound up playing with an Ronstad and then I 332 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: played with Jackson, not well Jackson later, but James Taylor 333 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: for about six years. Cause the wonderful obviously a wonderful 334 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: artist to to connected with. Uh So yeah, the I 335 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: just Lowell was thirty four years old, by Mozart was 336 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: thirty four. And so another way to look at what 337 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: we're doing now, which I point out to people, is look, 338 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: if you wanna put a lull or a little veto 339 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: whomever in this band into a U a worship area, 340 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: that's cool to do so, but keep in mind what 341 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: we're doing is keeping this music alive, and thus we're 342 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: keeping his memory alive. And uh, cause whatever travails were 343 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: going on with him with with a lot of people 344 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: back then, it was a creative soul, a brilliant UH musician. 345 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: I think his phrasing was uh impeccable, honestly, and uh 346 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: both as a singer and as a player. And so 347 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: uh the guys that are in the band now, Scott Scharard, 348 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: who's the musical director for uh, Greg Almond. When I 349 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: met him seven six, seven years ago when I was 350 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: playing with the Doobie Brothers, he'd been studying Little Feat 351 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: since like twelve years old. Wow. Same thing with Tony Leoni. 352 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: He's on drums and he'd been studying Richie Hayward and 353 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: also he's studied other people. But these are guys that 354 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: come into this thing with a wide swath of music 355 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: and influences, which is another area. Alone I discussed a lot. 356 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: What are the influences? So when I, as I said 357 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: the outside of our conversation, when I went into his house, 358 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing it on purpose, but that is an effect. 359 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: What I was doing was viewing, but had influenced him. 360 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: And so if you got jazz, you got it. There's 361 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: a alment Zappa put out of Lenny Bruce, so there's 362 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: that aspect of it all. I loved the Marx Brothers 363 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: brought you over earlier. There's a song called alone. I 364 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: think it's Jack Jones and Kitty Carlyle. I believe, oh 365 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: well and Jack Jones the Dixie Chicken on The Tonight 366 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: Show with Johnny Carson wentz oh my God on boards. 367 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: It's like a Dickenson tale. Honestly, it's amazing. Yeah. Wow. 368 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of stories around why Lowell left 369 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: playing with Frank Zappa. Okay, what's the one that you 370 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: believe is the reason why. Well, Frank asked him to leave. 371 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: He asked him to form his own band. He did 372 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: so upon hearing a song called Willin which had drug 373 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: references weed watching, and Frank was not into the weed aspects, 374 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: but he also knew I had a this is an 375 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: untapped resource, and he sent him listen and Frank was 376 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: was helpful. So it was heard calling his manager, and 377 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: that's so that's the story I have. I'll only say 378 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: that when we first went into signed the record deal, 379 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: I think Herb Herbie was there or close in the 380 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: vicinity when we went and signed the record deal for 381 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: Letter Roll Gosh, yes, eighty seven eighty eight. Somewhere in there. 382 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: Herbie was the first guy walking out of the new 383 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: Warner building. I reminded him of that. So there was 384 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: this kind of bookends going on. Oh wow, yeah, yeah. 385 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: And you guys during that period when I was at 386 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: QFM ninety six and Columbus, you and Paul and Richie 387 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: came into the studio and did a scaled down version 388 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: of a few songs, which is pretty amazing, pretty pretty 389 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: special radio really for that time sounded so awesome. Lowell 390 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: was somebody who had a lot of a lot of 391 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: a lot of great great lines, right, I mean he 392 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: he was. He was quick to throw out some funny stuff. 393 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: Any any in particular that come to mind, that our 394 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: lollisms on this day, on his birthday, you know, well, 395 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: happy birthday. I hope you're hanging out with whomever you 396 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: love up there wherever you are. His soul someplace, that's 397 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: for sure. I don't remember some of his witticisms from you. 398 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: I remember a lot more from Richie Hayward, who was 399 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: from Iowa. But but Lowell he had that sense of 400 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: humor where we'd be sitting around a table at Richie's house. 401 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: And this is uh in West La just off of 402 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: Sunset Boulevard, and uh right next to the Cocking Bowl restaurant. 403 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: There are Spanish apartments that were there. These apartments were 404 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: filled with writers, drug dealers, uh uh, musicians, et cetera. 405 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: But Lowld like get up on the window and put 406 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: his face there and secured the hall out of us. 407 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: It was as well as prankster as we end up. 408 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: You liked having a good time. He did, he he 409 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: he really did. And I I think that's that's the 410 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: essence of h when when people are having fun, which 411 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: we did during the making of uh pieces don't family now. Uh, 412 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: his daughter Honara was born and that was a really 413 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: I think it was a great time in his life. Uh, 414 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: and for us as a result of it. In any ways, 415 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: he's like Jerry Garcia during the times that were not 416 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: example of of fun and joy he was. We kind 417 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: of disappear for periods of time. That's a Jerry And 418 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: what I've read and heard, we go, well, oh, he'll 419 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: be back doing that kind of stuff. Fred Tackett, who's 420 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: been with us for some of the first people I've 421 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: met in La Fred, don't you remember when he was 422 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: running for office for the Musicians Union. I don't know 423 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: really and I well, wait a minute, yea, I that 424 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 1: is a rings a vague bell. Well. Fred got us 425 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: our first gig with Jimmy Webb at a paying gig, 426 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: I should say, for Littlefi at a uh Jimmy's birthday 427 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: party in the Sino, California. So Fred came from that 428 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: world of he knew Lowell got a couple of well 429 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: a few years before I met him, and he was 430 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: playing with Sonny and Cheer Jimmy Webb. Uh, When you 431 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: look at Fred's discography, it's it's spelled like minus uh. 432 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: It's sort of like when did you guys have time 433 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom? You know. So it's nuts. 434 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: I love it. So there's a documentary in the works. 435 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: There is, uh Jesse Latter's is a director. There is 436 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: a documentary he just has out now with Susan Sandeshi 437 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: and Derek Trucks and Joe Cocker, Mad Dogs and Englishmen. Wow. 438 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: And so the survivors of that confluence all got together 439 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: later and reminiscing about John had some great uh footage 440 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: of Cocker when he was around and what that tour 441 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: was about. So he knows how to tell a story. 442 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: And ultimately that's uh, that's what I who I wanted 443 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: was somebody that not I could tell a story, but 444 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: listen to the story. And that's there. We don't need 445 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: to probamly gate the the bridge like a mighty python 446 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: skit the bridge. The castle was built and sunk into 447 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: the swamp. The bridge was built, it was blown up 448 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: by the You know that happens to everybody. You can 449 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: always you can always allude to something without being hammered 450 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: it into the ground. I guess sure. And I think 451 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 1: the better story is the creative aspect of what we 452 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: were doing and how it ties into what we're doing 453 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: now all these years later. That's what little Feet is. 454 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's bigger than any of us. And I 455 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: figured that out quite a few years ago. Yeah, that's 456 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: It's gone through some any generations, incarnations, you know, creative processes, 457 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: and still cranking it out for sure. How do you 458 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: use taking a walk yourself? Uh? Probably I'm assuming out 459 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: in Montana to kind of, you know, help you creatively 460 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: or inspire you. Uh, how were you able to do 461 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: that in the wide expanse of Montana as well? I 462 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: think anywhere? Well, so much of what we do is 463 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: compartmentalized righting as between the years. But if you can 464 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: find a place that it could, I mean I found 465 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: it just walking into New York City the other day. 466 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: You just you're just looking, You're you're able to think 467 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: you can kind of settle down a little bit. Oh 468 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: if you're not looking for buses, that might tell you 469 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: it's it's just your The reflective mode is really what 470 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: you're you're involved in wherever you can find it. Many 471 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: Duke Ellington used to get a job, those those reflective 472 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: mouth sitting in the cab, you know, taking a shower, 473 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: you're you Oh my gosh. I got to retain the thoughts, 474 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: but I can write it down. There are that kind 475 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: of thing. The mind has a mind of his own, 476 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: and photography is relatively new for you. Yeah, listen, Like 477 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: I said, I turned seventy three in March same day 478 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: as well. James Taylor's a year older than me, but 479 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: we our birthdays in March twelfth. A happy, happy thanks, 480 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: and that's all. James, You like the canary in the 481 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: coal mine. As long as you're doing good, I think 482 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: I'll do good. But the photography I began in my fifties, 483 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: so I think, well, I don't know if Roll said this, 484 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: and I think about it, it is true, is and 485 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: that we talk ourselves out of far more things that 486 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: we than we talk ourselves into. All I can't do 487 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: this because of that. I yeah, I play piano, but 488 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: how many people in the world play piano? Should I 489 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: be playing guitar? You know that that kind of thing, 490 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: the inquisitiveness is what is what pulls us out of 491 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: that pulls us out of ourselves, which are either wildly 492 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: ambitious or are completely denial of what is in front 493 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: of us. And it's an odd mixture. But the steps 494 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: are jumping in that pool and taking the dive. Before 495 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: you take that dive, there's a lot that goes into 496 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: your head temperature in the water. Can I swim? How 497 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: close is so side of the pool? Am I gonna 498 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: hit my head on the side to put on? When 499 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: all those things that you just kind of build up 500 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: and they stall the process, And what you want to 501 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: do when you can, as a creative person is to 502 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: to open that up where the creativity will come out, 503 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: and then I would stop editing yourself. So a beautiful 504 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: advice for creative process. Well, I'm just glad I've lived 505 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: long enough to be able to articulate it, because that 506 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: was another thing. Remember the Tom wolfbook, The right stuff. 507 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: They it was astronauts, and they it wasn't mainly I 508 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: guess to question what they were doing. They just did 509 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: it right right, And and we kind of adapted that 510 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: attitude as well in the seventies of not looking or 511 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: analyzing what we did. Why we make that a two 512 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: four bar instead of a four fourth bar? I just 513 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if Flays did it, And later I went, 514 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 1: you know, I want to know why I'm doing this 515 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: right and the fear I was taking to a guy, 516 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: a driver in a car taking me someplace using me 517 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: and I said, do you ever like play scales or in? 518 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: He said no? No. I said, is that because for 519 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: study music? Because you think it will take away from 520 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: your creativity? He said yeah. I said, okay, I'm gonna 521 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: share something with you. When you add learning about a subject, 522 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: in this case music and the notion of playing scales, 523 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: which John Coltrane did at nausea, they add to your vocabulary. 524 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: They don't take anything away. He went, I never thought 525 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: of it like that. I said, no, I didn't either. 526 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: That's why I'm sharing it with it. You want to 527 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: broaden your vocabulary, not restrict it. Have you seen Chasing Train, 528 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: the documentary on huluf I? You know I did, and 529 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: we were talking about this last night. Also the documentary 530 00:35:53,880 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: on Bill Evans on Blue Note Records, and well, I 531 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: haven't seen those. And lastly A Birth of the Cool 532 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: Miles Davis and that was the one documentary I forgot. 533 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: It was a John Coltrane documentary. Lovely documentary. You know 534 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: I've seen those photography. Oh I'm sorry ahead, I'm going 535 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: back to photography. You know Henry Dilts, Yes, Henry Dilts 536 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: and I took a walk a couple of weeks back 537 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: in LA and there was a beautiful moment we're walking 538 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: and it describes, you know, him really beautifully where we're 539 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: taking a walk, and he had a stop at a 540 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: very moment and whip out his little portable you know, 541 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: camera whatever it was because he saw something in the 542 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: window that was an image that just made him curious. 543 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, at eighty three years old, 544 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: this guy is still loving his view of the world 545 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: that he can kind of capture. You know. That's right, 546 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: what things you know? And I Henry is a wonderful photographer. 547 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: He's taking photos of everybody, including the little feet and uh, 548 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: but I never you know what he brings to it 549 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: or whatever any photographer brings to it. It's kind of 550 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: like a musician. We we go through the auditory sources. 551 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: But so he's I would bet that he he watched 552 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: a lot of films growing up. And what you're doing 553 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: is you're educating your eye to the best cinematographers in 554 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: the world. How they work for John Houston or David 555 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: Lean Kubrick on up and down. And so when you 556 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: see something you have a chance to a talk yourself 557 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: out of it because well, everybody's doing it before, or 558 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: you figure out that what's unique about human beings is 559 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: we all have that little bid in us that shares 560 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: our view of what that is. Maybe Kubrick's views that's 561 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: got a our David Lean's has got a bigger picture 562 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: to it. I mean, I don't mean literally, but but 563 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: the uh well, actually it is literal. We're got expanses 564 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: in uh Lawrence of Arabia. And maybe you're just capturing 565 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: one of the the mounds or the flow of the sand. 566 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: It's all there. You know, where where where does your 567 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: vision who literally and figuratively take you? And I when 568 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: I figured that out with with photography for myself, when 569 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: I hit that shutter as I hit in the Middle 570 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: Sea on a keyboard as a child, I went, oh no, 571 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm off and running. My wife, Pauli's a wonderful photographer too. 572 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 1: There's a there's an image of Ritchie Hayward that we 573 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: we showed last night. Uh in the time of was 574 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: a hero and it looks like the the the photo 575 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 1: like this, it's it's it is raked up and he's 576 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: like got this specific smile on his face. He's and 577 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 1: the drumst's and a CPIA tone. She took that photo 578 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: and he died two weeks later, and I told her, said, 579 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: what that photo exemplifies is this, this is where Richie lived. Literally, 580 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: he had so much fun. When he got off stage, 581 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: he was shaking. We threw towels on him. So he 582 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: only played three or three songs that night. It was 583 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: up in Vancouver Island, I think. So. You know, Paul 584 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: went to Japan a few weeks before he passed, and 585 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: I know Coltrane. One of the last things he did 586 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,280 Speaker 1: was he went to Japan. Paul was first in that stuff. 587 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: I got him a Charles Mingus book one year for 588 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: his birthday. But that's that's where we gained inspiration from others. 589 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: That's where that the connectiveness of things. It doesn't always 590 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: have to be music. It can be food, it can 591 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: be politics, it can be obviously relationships, which are the 592 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: most important, but they all inform everything else of who 593 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: we are as human beings. And I think that's the 594 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: thing that's the most dramatically upsetting to me this day 595 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: and age and conversely, the most where I get the 596 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: most excited about things are the fact there's so many 597 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: people that just they don't want to intellectualize anything to 598 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: intellect and to intellectualize is uh, it's like taboo. You know. 599 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: They're shutting themselves off in the world. It's how people 600 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: like Hitler any any kind of dictatorship. They want that 601 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: father figure out. He's a bastard, but he made the decision, 602 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,959 Speaker 1: not me. Well, hey, we need to make decisions too. 603 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: John Lewis, God bless him, you know what I mean. 604 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm not a religious person, but I got to say 605 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: that that that man has some soul and he might 606 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: have been more of the Godfather of soul than even 607 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: James Brown where it counts. You got some soul, Billy Man. 608 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: And thanks for the joy that you bring to me 609 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: still to this day and to many fans over the 610 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: years and to this day. And I'm so grateful that 611 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: we were able to take a walk. Me too. I 612 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: enjoyed the walk very much. Press Thank you. Taking a 613 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or 614 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.