1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: to make sure everything's perfect. 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 2: We want a club prow that can play like Tiger, 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 2: teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 2: like Bob ho Right. 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 3: It is absolutely The problem is the amount of pay 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 3: for the amount of work does a. 8 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 4: Mesh for clubs. 9 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 5: If you don't make these changes, you're not going to 10 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 5: get the people you want. 11 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 6: Your product is going to suffer. 12 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 7: People are not going to want to come play there, 13 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 7: They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to 14 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 7: go out of business. 15 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the 16 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive 17 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: that can make it any better? 18 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 8: People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like, 19 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 8: how can he not want to be surrounded by those people? 20 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 6: Right? 21 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 8: And And that's what our PGA professional is. You know, 22 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 8: it's not perfect, We're not perfect times far from perfect. 23 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 6: We're moving the needle, making a. 24 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 8: Lot of progress and I hope people are noticing it. 25 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 6: But that's not the point either, right. The point is 26 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 6: leaving the room better. And I'm going to keep fighting 27 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 6: to do that every day. Put another log on the fire. 28 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 6: Nobody here is to get the time. 29 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 4: Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Chanella. Always good 30 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 4: to be back around this fire pit. Needless to say, 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 4: it has been a tumultuous few months trying to sort 32 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 4: out the future of the fire Pit Collective. We've reorganized 33 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 4: the business, sharpened the strategy and got refocused on travel shows, 34 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 4: the Ambush of Buddies, trips, chronicling course developments, renovations and restorations. 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 4: We'll be announcing some upcoming events and we'll continue producing 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 4: more of these podcasts. And thus i'd like to thank 37 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 4: our sponsors. First link so the lifestyle brand I've worn 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 4: on and off the course for over ten years, Polos 39 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 4: T shirts, pants, shorts, hoodies and hats. Go to linksoul 40 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 4: dot com right now and use promo code fire Pit 41 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 4: twenty five for twenty five percent off your next purchase. 42 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 4: And then there's Robin Golf, the company who designs clubs 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 4: to give the widest range of players the most success 44 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 4: playing golf. Ideal for kids and beginners, the club faces 45 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 4: have a larger sweet spot, which means more forgiveness and 46 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 4: who doesn't like more forgiveness. Go to robindolf dot com 47 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 4: today and shop their sleek line of men's, women's, and 48 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 4: kids clubs. Okay, for some deep context as it relates 49 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 4: to this podcast, I grew up in and around golf, 50 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 4: playing at Oakmont in Santa Rosa, California. We lived nearby. 51 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 4: My uncle and my dad played at Oakmont, so did 52 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 4: all of their friends. I eventually got jobs there picking 53 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 4: the range, parking carts, changing grips. I did whatever they 54 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 4: asked me to do. The head pro at the time, 55 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 4: Dean James was tough on me and everyone on his staff. 56 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 4: He played mind games, broke you down, so he was 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 4: the one who could build you back up. Compliments were rare. 58 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 4: I watched as he manipulated his assistants, pitted them against 59 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 4: each other, etc. Most of his assistants, who were all 60 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 4: great to me, moved through the shop after a year 61 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 4: or two. Some found other clubs, others found other industries. 62 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 4: I was never a big Dean fan, and my dad 63 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 4: and uncle kind of felt the same way. But Dean 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 4: was dug in managed the membership a lot better than 65 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 4: he did the people who worked for him. I eventually 66 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 4: got a job on the Oakmont maintenance crew working for 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 4: the superintendent Mike Clark, who was the opposite of Dean. 68 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 4: Mike Clerk was humble, quiet, appreciative of hard work. He 69 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 4: was approachable, fair, and had integrity. His staff stayed with 70 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 4: him for years. Some still might be there. In a way, 71 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 4: I guess I owe my career and go off to 72 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 4: both Dean James and Mike Clark. It was Dean who 73 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 4: pushed me into agronomy. It was Mike who hired me. 74 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 4: Then it was Dean the summer after I graduated from 75 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: Saint Mary's College in Northern California, who took away free 76 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 4: golf for the Oakmont maintenance staff. It was the fact 77 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 4: that I would need to start paying for my golf 78 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 4: at the course I helped maintain that made me willing 79 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 4: to take the job of driving my parents furniture from 80 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 4: Santa Rosa across the country to New York. My dad, 81 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 4: as an engineer for Bechtel Power, was going to consult 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 4: on the renovation of the JFK Airport. I loaded up 83 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 4: the moving truck and basically never came back. Upon arriving 84 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 4: on the East Coast, and as I looked into applying 85 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 4: at Penn State's agronomy school, I landed the internship at 86 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: Sports Illustrated. The rest continues to be my history. Cut 87 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 4: to September of last year, I was asked to be 88 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 4: a guest on the Tie podcast hosted by Walker Semus. 89 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 4: Walker and I had a good talk about my life 90 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 4: in golf, the industry in general. We talked about the 91 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 4: fire Pit Collective and he asked what I was most 92 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: excited about. I explained to him the concept of the 93 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 4: Grind docuseries we were working on chronicling the lives of 94 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 4: the dreamers, the mid level professionals who push all in 95 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 4: on themselves and their talents. And then I exposed my 96 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 4: ignorance as it related to the lives and lifestyles of 97 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 4: club pros. Here again is the fifty two second bite 98 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 4: from the fifty minute conversation, which Walker circulated on Twitter 99 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: to promote his podcast. Why is a PGA professional who 100 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 4: can barely break eighty but works a prettily traditional workweek 101 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 4: make one hundred and fifty thousand or two hundred thousand 102 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 4: dollars a year being a pro? When a pro who 103 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 4: breaks seventy every time they tee it up is going 104 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 4: backwards and losing eighty thousand dollars a year. 105 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 6: If not more. 106 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 4: There is a flaw in this system. The pros who 107 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 4: can barely break eighty, who passed some sort of written 108 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 4: test and a playing test and wants to call himself 109 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 4: herself a pro, is a pro and they're making a 110 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 4: good living being a pro when the pros who are 111 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 4: a master's at their craft are losing eighty to one 112 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars. To your point, what's wrong with this picture? 113 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: Knowing what I know now, having had conversations with experts 114 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 4: and insiders to hear what I said that day is embarrassing. 115 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 4: To compare one profession or professional to the other makes 116 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 4: no sense. They are two very different jobs. And for 117 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 4: that to all the club pros and PGA pros out 118 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 4: there selflessly and thanklessly giving so much to the development 119 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 4: and growth of this game we all love. I said 120 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 4: it before, but I'll me say it again. I am sorry. 121 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 4: I've been well aware of the crisis as it relates 122 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 4: to the agronomy of golf. Clubs can't find good supers, 123 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 4: Supers can't find good assistance, and there's definitely a shortage 124 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 4: when it comes to people willing to work long hours 125 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 4: for not a lot of pay. I was not aware 126 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 4: of that same crisis as it pertains to PGA professionals 127 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 4: and or club pros. Did that hole in my glove 128 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 4: have anything to do with Dean James and the way 129 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 4: he treated me and the staff who worked for him. 130 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 4: Maybe maybe that impacted my bias, but it doesn't matter. 131 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 4: The fact is I've benefited from good club pros my 132 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 4: whole life. How many places have I played thousands? How 133 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 4: many tournaments have I played in countless? How many lessons 134 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 4: have I had? Never enough? Having processed the flood of 135 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 4: backlash and having reflected on my mistake, I've produced the 136 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 4: upcoming series of podcasts in an effort to try and 137 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: help their cause. In this series, you'll hear from several 138 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 4: current and former PGA pros, and I get their perspectives 139 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 4: on the industry in general, the past, the president, and 140 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 4: the future. I also spoke to Butch Harmon, a legend 141 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 4: in the industry obviously, but whose dad and brothers were 142 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 4: also all club and teaching pros. I speak to Chandler Withington, 143 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 4: the former head pro at Hazeltine, Rick Riley, the head 144 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 4: pro at Wiltshire Country Club for the last thirty years 145 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 4: and whose dad was a former president of the PG 146 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 4: of America. I spoke to Shane Ryan, who authored a 147 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 4: story titled the Club Pro Crisis, which appeared in Golf 148 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 4: Digest almost exactly a year ago. I speak to Susie Whaley, 149 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 4: who in twenty eighteen became the first female president of 150 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 4: the PGA of America. And I spoke to Seth Waw, 151 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 4: the CEO of the PG of America since twenty eighteen, 152 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 4: who is doing everything he can to improve a rather 153 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 4: bleak reality. We start with Withington, a former assistant at 154 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 4: Seminole and Marian before landing the head pro job at 155 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 4: Hazelteene in twenty thirteen. He helped host the Ryder Cup 156 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen and had another one coming in twenty 157 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 4: twenty nine, but in twenty twenty one he walked away 158 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 4: from the job to pursue his passion for architecture and 159 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 4: design and applied it to intricate art and specifically golf posters, which, 160 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 4: by the way, are incredible. This first section of the 161 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 4: pod is on the reaction to my SoundBite from the 162 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 4: TAI podcast. 163 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: So somebody who messaged me and they said, hey, do 164 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: you hear what Matt Chanellos said about club pro or 165 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: like matic a shot at club pros. He's getting roasted 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 2: right now. And I said, where is it? And so 167 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: it's this podcast. So I'm the kind of person and 168 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 2: I get into a lot of this conversation where I said, like, 169 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: all right, just I'll listen to the pod and I'll 170 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 2: form my own opinion. Don't tell me what to think. 171 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 6: I'll listen to it. 172 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: So what I listened to it like I heard the 173 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: point you made you were talking about to her professional life. 174 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: There are a lot more people that can shoot, There 175 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: are a lot more great players, and the system is 176 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: broken because how can these guys struggle to make a living, 177 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 2: But yet you have club pros that over time our 178 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: playing ability has gone dramatically down, and now the majority 179 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: of us can't break eighty be we're making a very 180 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: comfortable living. That was the point I heard. And it's 181 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: not inaccurate, right, It's not accurate for everyone, right, So 182 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: that's what some people took offense to. Either I don't 183 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: make one hundred and fifty K or I can't wreak part. 184 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: I'm like, you'll have time to rectify all that. I 185 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: think what you're doing is like anytime that we say something, 186 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: we're in this like cancel culture of like I can 187 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: cancel Janelle. He said something I don't like or agree with, Like, no, 188 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: let's let's do what you're doing, saying, Look, I said 189 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 2: something that obviously works some people, so I want to 190 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 2: understand it more and I want to understand your perspective 191 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: and then you know, let's continue the conversation and like 192 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: we all know, like Twitter is not the place for that, right. 193 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 4: A lot more from Chandler throughout this series. For now 194 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 4: meet Cody Sinkler, director of golf operations at the Park 195 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 4: in West Palm Beach, Florida. 196 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 7: Initial reaction was to be candid, a little offended, and 197 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 7: I just thought it didn't quite it was a little 198 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 7: out of touch and meaning the mention of club pros 199 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 7: making the salary. 200 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 6: You mentioned. 201 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 7: Those club pros are what I would consider to be 202 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 7: the one percent at the top of their profession, you know, 203 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 7: the Rory McElroy's of our profession. They're still working fifty 204 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 7: sixty seventy hour weeks likely most of them are. So 205 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 7: it was a little bit I found it to be. 206 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 7: I don't want to be harsh, but it felt a 207 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 7: little offensive, just because I don't quite feel like and 208 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 7: I definitely have made it to a pretty high level 209 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 7: in my profession, I believe I don't quite like a 210 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 7: I guess we'll call it an aspiring mini tour player 211 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 7: who easily handle me on the golf course could step 212 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 7: into my role and cecar make. 213 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 6: It to me. 214 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 7: It just based that they're a better player than me. 215 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 7: That was kind of my impression. 216 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 4: And here's Josh Doxeter, general manager at Harbor Shores Resort 217 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 4: in Benton Harbor, Michigan. 218 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 5: Oh, I just I thought it was just a complete 219 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 5: disservice to the PGA professional, you know. And I think 220 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 5: there's a lot of people that think it's they don't 221 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 5: have a real understanding of what the job looks like 222 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 5: and what it takes to actually be successful in the 223 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 5: game of golf. From a business side of things, there's 224 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 5: no question that we have a ton of lazy PGA 225 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 5: professionals out there who give the brand maybe a bad 226 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 5: rap in some sense. But I you know, I've been 227 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 5: in the business over fifteen almost twenty years now, and 228 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 5: I've seen so many come and go, but there's only 229 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 5: a very select few that really have what it takes 230 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 5: to I would say, carry the torch and pass it 231 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 5: on to future generations. You know, we've had twenty eight 232 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 5: thousand PJ professionals for three or thirty years. You know 233 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 5: that number has not moved, and it's on a decline 234 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 5: right now. You know, the talent level that I see 235 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 5: coming in from an apprentice side of things is lacking significantly. 236 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 5: And you know, the ones who do make it are 237 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 5: the ones who truly have a passion and love for 238 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 5: the game. And I would suggest that a majority of 239 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 5: those that are in or who have become PJ professionals 240 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 5: were dreamers. That's that's where they started. That's how I started. 241 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 5: I started playing young competitively young. I wanted so badly 242 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 5: play on the PGA Tour. But if you don't have 243 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 5: time and money and resources, you have no chance. And 244 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 5: you know, I learned that quickly, and then I invested 245 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 5: everything I had into the business side of golf because 246 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 5: I love the game that much and I want to 247 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 5: be around it and I can't imagine doing anything else. 248 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 5: So I think, you know, when I heard the clip, 249 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 5: and then just some of the other things in regard 250 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 5: to wages and then work week and things like that. 251 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 5: You know, there's no question that there's some guys that 252 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 5: are in positions where they play a lot of golf, 253 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 5: they get paid well for it, they take care of 254 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 5: their membership. But there's and I would say that's the 255 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 5: less than ten percent of those golf professionals or PG professionals, 256 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 5: you know, and anybody who's who's really gone through and 257 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 5: went through the program and the business. You know, it's 258 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 5: it's seventy eighty hour work weeks, it's a thirty thousand 259 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 5: dollars salary. It's a grind, you know. I know, I 260 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 5: came up in Phoenix area, and you know, eleven months 261 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 5: out of the year you're cooking, and although it slows 262 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 5: down in the summer, you don't stop. And you know, 263 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 5: six days a week in at six thirty am, go home, 264 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 5: try to have dinner with the wife, but my newborn 265 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 5: son to bad go back until nine or ten o'clock 266 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 5: at night. And you know, that was one of the 267 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 5: reasons why I transitioned out of Phoenix to a colder climate, 268 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 5: because I needed some sort of change in the off 269 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 5: season in order to you know, be able to actually 270 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 5: be a part of my family. 271 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 4: And then there's Kieran Kanwar of Mumbai, India. She's been 272 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 4: in the United States since two thousand and five. She 273 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 4: has a PhD in kinesiology. She's an LPGA Master instructor, 274 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 4: and she's the chair of the golf department at Stanton 275 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 4: University in Orange County, California. Her thesis was on types 276 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 4: and causes of swing related injury. She's been teaching for 277 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 4: thirty three years. When I solicited feedback on my comment 278 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 4: from club pros on Twitter, like several others throughout this series, 279 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 4: she offered to participate. 280 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 9: A lot of club pros protest that, oh, that's not fair. 281 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 9: I didn't I just saw a tiny clip of your 282 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 9: recording where you're saying that the players have more, you know, 283 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 9: don't get as good a deal as I don't know 284 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 9: if you mentioned the club pros in reference to that, 285 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 9: but yeah, there's all sorts of club pros, and I 286 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 9: mean to say that we all deserve to do better 287 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 9: is like saying that an ad shooter deserves to be 288 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 9: on a tour. You know, everybody thinks they deserve more, 289 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 9: but do they really deserve more? And is there any 290 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 9: harm in actually, you know, putting up your frank opinions 291 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 9: on social media. As long as it's not, you know, 292 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 9: harming anyone in any way, what's wrong with that? So 293 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 9: I thought I'd add my little two bit and say that, Hey, 294 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 9: I mean, if you're talking of club pros, look at 295 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 9: some of us, brown skinned females who have more credentials 296 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 9: than most men on this planet in golf, and yet 297 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 9: don't even get a foot in the door, leave alone, 298 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 9: work twelve hours a day and big compensated minimally, you know, 299 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 9: So what are you guys talking about? 300 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 4: Thanks again to all who provided the very frank and 301 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: enlightening feedback. The fact is, the job of the club pro, 302 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 4: especially since the days of Dean James at Oakmont in 303 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 4: Santa Rosa, has changed significantly. For the start of a 304 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 4: section on the history of the job, we go back 305 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 4: to Chandler Withington. 306 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: Here's how I would summarize the history of like the 307 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 2: club professional to a professional like and they do segment 308 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 2: at some point, So you go all the way back 309 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: to like eighteen fifties, early eighteen hundreds, like first club 310 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 2: professionals like Alan Robertson's old Tom Morris, clubmakers, ballmakers, superintendents, 311 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 2: course architects. You know, they built these places, right, they 312 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 2: were the jack of all trades and that's what the 313 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 2: game was. And they weren't even considered like members. They 314 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: were amateurs, right, Not really until they started the Open 315 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: Championship in eighteen sixty did they start to recognize who 316 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 2: these people were. Right, you know what nine players in 317 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,719 Speaker 2: the first Open et cetera. Right, fast forward to nineteen 318 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 2: sixteen we formed the PGA of America. But look at 319 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: like who the first like club professionals were. You had 320 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 2: like Walter Hagen, right, you know at of go Kill 321 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: or Oakland Hills. And what was their first responsibility was? 322 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 2: They were to teach people how to play the game. 323 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: The rules were just being formed. It was the wild 324 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: wild West of like how you want to. 325 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 6: Play the game. 326 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 2: They were trying to uniform the game. And that's what 327 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 2: the club professional's role was. Was to teach people how 328 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: to play the game, not just how to play shots, 329 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 2: but how to play the game, how to score penalties, 330 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 2: et cetera. Right, I think Walter Hagen was really like 331 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 2: the first advocate of getting professionals, you know, in the 332 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 2: clubhouse in Iverness in nineteen twenty, Right. You know, when 333 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 2: I look at the black and white Hogan pick Mine 334 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: is a little different. I don't know if you've seen 335 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 2: this version before. 336 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 6: I'll flip it. 337 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,479 Speaker 2: But at the bottom there is like the score panel 338 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: where you know it's got the scores. You know, Ben 339 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: Hogan won four thousand dollars in nineteen fifty. But my 340 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: favorite part of it is at list every club that 341 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 2: they were attached to. You know, So Ben was the 342 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 2: pro at Hershey, Claude Harmon was at Wingfoot, Henry vCard 343 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: is at Canterbury, you know, down the road, right, every 344 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: one of these guys playing in a national championship. When 345 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: the Open was done, they went back and started teaching 346 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: lessons again at a club. 347 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 6: Right. 348 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 2: Jack and Arnie come along in nineteen sixty, and that's 349 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: when like tour life started to sustain itself to where 350 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: you know, Jack and Arnie were club professionals. That's really 351 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: when it started to shift. Golf started getting on TV, 352 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: person started going up, and there was a traveling tour, right, 353 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 2: which of course they tried to take over from b Namon. 354 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 6: Right. 355 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: But then you get into like I think about people 356 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 2: like in the nineteen eighties, like I'm sure you had 357 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 2: a chance to meet RJ Harper at Pebble Beach to 358 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 2: show you, like what the demand on was pros back then. 359 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: R J remembody told me, he goes, oh, I made 360 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 2: I made decision that I was going to get into golf. 361 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: So I said, I'm going to go to the best 362 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: place there is to do it, as Pebble Beach. 363 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 6: I think RJ was from. 364 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: Florida and he drove across the country, showed up a 365 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 2: Pebble He goes, Sam, RJ. Harper, I'm here to work 366 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: what you have for me and so you can work 367 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: in the back room. But within two years RJ was 368 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 2: the director of golf the Pebble Beach like was not 369 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: a highly regarded, high sought after job in that era. 370 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: I mean, look at Lou Warsham handed the keys to 371 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 2: Bob Ford in nineteen eighty ProGMA. Now you'd have, you know, 372 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: two thousand pros trying to line up for a job 373 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 2: like that. You know, merchandise didn't start the Masters until 374 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 2: like eighty six, and by the time that Jack won 375 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: logos merchandise that you know, you sold the clubs and 376 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 2: golf balls until like the mid eighties. So what all changed? 377 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 6: Right? 378 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 2: You know where did this start to Spike Eldrick, right, 379 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: you know, nineteen ninety seven Tiger and then you know, look, 380 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: I went to a PGM school. I started in ninety six. 381 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: I think in ninety six there were a handful of 382 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 2: PGM schools. It got up to as many as you know, 383 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: I think over twenty at some point, and now it's 384 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 2: it's coming back down, like Clemson just closed. So in 385 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 2: the nineties when Tigers started coming in, you had the 386 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: prob one coming in two thousand r seven from Tailor 387 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 2: May came in two thousand and four, and I you know, 388 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: my internships in early job as a pro is watching this, 389 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: like Spike go like this, and then all the demands 390 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: of our time go along with it, and you had 391 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 2: pros that primarily again we were teaching and playing, you know, 392 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 2: merchandising in our business, and the size of our staffs 393 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: and the service level and courses are getting built all 394 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: over across America. It just it went like this, right, 395 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 2: So let's look at like where we are today, like 396 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: teaching the game, you know, and now you seem to 397 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 2: to a segment off of like if you really want 398 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: to teach the game, you've become a full time teacher. 399 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: You know at Hazel Team we had two full time teachers. 400 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: Teaching didn't become so much a part of my job. 401 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 6: Right. 402 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: The club professional now is viewed so much more of 403 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 2: as an administrator, a business mindset, a host overseeing hospitality. 404 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 2: But really it's the size of our staff, the size 405 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: of our sales, the number of events, the expectation on service. 406 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 2: And now you get this term that came up, you 407 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: know sometime I think in the mid nineties, like director 408 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: of golf, right, which director golf was always meant to be. 409 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: They oversee everything, you know, from down to like the 410 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: superintendent the whole facility was a director, But the term 411 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: really kind of gets abused, right. So that's my kind 412 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: of like three minute synopsis of like how do we 413 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: go from like Alan Robertson to to you know who 414 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: you know, Devin Gee at Oakmont today and like how 415 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 2: is their job changed and evolved? 416 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 6: Right? 417 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 2: But I think like people, I'll constantly tell you, like, 418 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: you know, when it comes to club professionals, like the 419 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: expectations now is like we want a club prow that 420 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: can play like Tiger teach like butch merchandise like Ralph 421 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: Lauren and tell jokes like bob op right, like should 422 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: be able to do it all. 423 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 6: And that's a big. 424 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 4: Ask on the subject of butch and the history of 425 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 4: the profession more than mister Harmon, Oh mat, how are 426 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 4: you this whole thing has been has been a part 427 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 4: of your life. What's kind of your general sense of 428 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 4: the evolution of what it used to be to sort 429 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 4: of what it is now. 430 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 6: Well, if you look. 431 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: At let's go back at my father's day, wait, way back, 432 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: saying in the forties, even into the fifties, the tour 433 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: was kind of a half a year type of thing. 434 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: So tour players would become Cup pros and work half 435 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: the year in different parts of the country, and then 436 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: when the tour started up, they'd go play. And that's 437 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 1: how my father started out, you know. He played the 438 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: tour and then he became an assistant pro to Craig 439 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: would at Wingfoot, and then a year later Craig would 440 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: left wing Foot and. 441 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 6: My father became the pro there for thirty three years. 442 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 6: Whatever it was back in those days, cut pro was 443 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 6: everything at the Cup. 444 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: He owned the pro shop, he on the back room, 445 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: wasn't paid a huge salary, he did the teaching, He 446 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: was a good instructor, a good player, nice merchandiser, a 447 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: person that ran all the tournaments and stuff. 448 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 6: You moved forward into. 449 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: Say my era, I turned pro in six before I 450 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: went to Vietnam. But when I came home from Vietnam 451 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: and the end of sixty six, you know, I became 452 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: an assistant pro wing foot and so on and so forth, 453 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: just like everybody else does. But we were around a 454 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: business that's totally The person who was the director golfer 455 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: or head golf pro, whatever you want to call him, 456 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: totally ran golf at the clubs. They ran everything. They 457 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: ran the tournaments. Yes, there were committees, but they ran them. 458 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: The head pro and the staff ran all of that. 459 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: That's changed now, and it's changed because of the way 460 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: things are. I don't know how we got to where 461 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: we are club pros in general. And I'm not putting 462 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: down a cut pro because I was one. My brothers 463 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: were all one. But the industry has become more clerks now, 464 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: more shirt and hat salesmen, and then they have a 465 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: guy that can teach and the guy that this or that. 466 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: It's not the one man show that he used to 467 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: be back in the days. I mean, my father was 468 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: so far ahead of himself that I mean when he 469 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: was at wing Put in the summer Seminole in the winter, 470 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: he made more money than the leading moneyware on the 471 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: PGA Tour in those days. And that's why he didn't 472 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: play full time. He just played in the majors. But 473 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: Dad was ahead of himself. He's one of the first 474 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 1: to start putting logos on shirts. He used like an 475 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: eight millimeters camera to take film of students and stuff. 476 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: He always wore an elastic belts that could take it 477 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: off and. 478 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 6: Wrap it around your arms when he was teaching and stuff. 479 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 6: So he was just ahead of himself. 480 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: I look at the modern day club prow and I 481 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: think what I would call the original style old golf pros. 482 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 6: You know, look at Bob Ford. 483 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: Who was at oakmontin Seminole, a great player, great teacher, 484 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: great great mentor to assistance. My brother Craig was the 485 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: same at oak Hill, was there for forty one years. 486 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: Those kind of guys don't exist anymore. It's not the 487 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: type of pro Darryl Kessler out on Long Island is 488 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: still a person like that. I would say if we 489 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: look at club pros in general, the metropolitan area in 490 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: New York probably has the biggest configuration of club head 491 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: pros in the country. Chicago District might be second, but 492 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: I think the met section is the biggest, and they 493 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: have a small version of the way it used to be. 494 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 6: Some of them. 495 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: Mike Gilmore, for example, at Wingfoot is a great player, 496 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: great teacher, great merchandiser, great club pro. We don't see 497 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: that a lot anymore. I go back and I look 498 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: at the ones who have retired, like my brother Craig, 499 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: my brother Dick unfortunately who passed away, Ricky Roadse at 500 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: San Francisco Golf Club. These are guys that their whole 501 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: life has been spent at one club, that they've done 502 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: everything for. That. We don't see that anymore. Pros tend 503 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: to jump around at different jobs here and there, here 504 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: and there. The old days, when you've got a good job, 505 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: you just stayed there forever and the members treated you 506 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: like them. 507 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 6: Remember you were great with them. 508 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: And so I think what's evolved now is the club's 509 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: known all the amenities they owned, the pro shops they own, 510 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: the carts they owned, the backrooms they owned, the driving ranges. 511 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: Pros are paid a salary and a little percentage of stuff. 512 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 6: So it's a. 513 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: Different incentive world for guys to get into business. 514 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 6: You know. 515 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: The people said to you all the time, well, you've 516 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: been a golf pro your whole life. When you were 517 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: a club pro, you must have played a lot of golf. No, 518 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: not really. You're always working. You work every holiday, you 519 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: work every weekend. It's a hard job. Now you have 520 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: corporations own these clubs. They got the pros punching time clocks. 521 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 6: You know. 522 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: Well, HR says you can only work forty hours a week. Well, heck, 523 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: we being a golf pro my whole life, I turned 524 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: probe to sixty five. We worked the sun when the 525 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: sun was up, we worked when the sun went down, 526 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: and we went home. That's not the way it is anymore. 527 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: It's a totally different environment. I'm not saying it's good 528 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: or bad. I'm just saying it's not the one that 529 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: I grew up in and the one I lived in. 530 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 4: Bob Ford, Ricky Rhodes, and here's Rick Riley, director of 531 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 4: golf at Wiltshire Country Club in Los Angeles. He's the 532 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 4: son of Pat Riley, the legendary past president of the 533 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 4: PG of America. Between father, who was a member of 534 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 4: the Association for fifty five years and son who's been 535 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 4: a member for over thirty years. They have over ninety 536 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 4: years of combined service to the game of golf. 537 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 10: So he got into it, you know, he was you know, 538 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 10: he and my mom, you know, went to Penn State, 539 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 10: I loped, moved out. He's in the Marine Corps nineteen 540 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 10: fifty eight to sixty one, and he when he get 541 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 10: out of the Marine Corps, he's the stationed in Camp 542 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 10: Pendlan and he went to work for a guy named 543 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 10: Rags Raglan who ran Circlear golf course. Circulars were Ashley 544 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 10: grew up and all that. We played our first unear tournament. 545 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 10: So he was there for about a year and a 546 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 10: half and then this position opened up at al Camino 547 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 10: in nineteen sixty two and he was there for about 548 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 10: ten years. And then Annandale and Pasena came calling. They 549 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 10: wanted pat Riley. Pat you know, my dad was a 550 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 10: good player. He was, you know, well rounded golf professional, 551 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 10: ran a good operation golf shop. I could play, I 552 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 10: could teach. Went to Annandale, was there in nineteen seventy two, 553 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 10: got involved with the PGA of America. Initially, he he 554 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 10: kind of was blackballed. 555 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 6: He didn't. He don't. 556 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 10: Yeah, he so how can I how can I play 557 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 10: in these tournaments? Well, you know he was playing while 558 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 10: he was winning tournaments. Said you got to go back 559 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 10: and do your school. 560 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 6: Anyway. 561 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,479 Speaker 10: He got answered, Listen, I'm going to make sure when 562 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 10: I get back, I'm going to make sure it's right 563 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 10: for everybody. So his whole thing with the PGA was 564 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 10: it was all about the little guy taking care of 565 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 10: the little guy, making sure all the rank and file 566 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 10: members you know, had had access, had a better path 567 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 10: for their future, for their benefits financially, you know, spiritually, 568 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 10: that whole thing. So he was there from seventy two 569 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 10: to two thousand and two. He retired in two thousand 570 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,959 Speaker 10: and two. And I actually I was working at Allahois 571 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 10: Country Club, got out of got out of school at 572 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 10: U of A and eighty three. I worked for Pete 573 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 10: co who actually worked for my dad. Was there for 574 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 10: three years and I was actually go to work for 575 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 10: my dad and Anadale and this whole thing kind of 576 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 10: open up at Wilsher Game an assistant pro there for 577 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 10: about six months. And Frank Morrik been there for twenty 578 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 10: five years and he retired and I got in the 579 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 10: finals of the interview for the head job, and I 580 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 10: got it, and I was twenty six years old and 581 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 10: I'm still here at thirty thirty five years later. 582 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 4: How have you seen this kind of role evolve over 583 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 4: decades of time? 584 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 10: Here, I think I think the bottom line is, and 585 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 10: this is pretty harsh. I mean, the club pros are 586 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 10: givers to c tur pros are takers. I'm not saying 587 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 10: that's that's I mean, give a lot of our time. 588 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 10: We're promoting the game, and they listen to tour pros. 589 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 10: They can play great, but at the end of the day, 590 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 10: it's like, do they really have time for you? When 591 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 10: you know they'll they'll throw a clinic up there, it's like, oh, 592 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 10: they're not. They're not the one given the clinics. It's 593 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 10: it's the rank and file guys like myself and the 594 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 10: twenty eight thousand PGA professionals that are really promoting the 595 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 10: game of golf, and hey, listen, it's fun to watch 596 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 10: these guys. These guys on tour are so good, they're 597 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 10: so talented. And I can remember the days Ashley and 598 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 10: I were playing golf at u of A and we're like, 599 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 10: we go shoot seventy two seventy three, we're the best 600 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 10: player in the team right now. 601 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 6: Seventy two seventy. 602 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 10: Three you can't. You can't crack the top eight, you know, 603 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 10: so obviously I kind of call it the Tiger effect. 604 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 10: Now there's there's better training, there's better fit. I mean, 605 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 10: I remember I remember going asht and I go downstairs 606 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 10: with Michale Senner. We're going to do Nautilus. 607 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 6: There's there's fourteen guys. We go down there. 608 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 10: We all walk in, What the hell nautilists. We're playing golf. 609 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 6: We're not. 610 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 10: We're not working out. This is this is this is 611 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 10: nineteen eighty. So that's that's how much it's changed. The 612 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,239 Speaker 10: game has changed. It's these guys are athletes. I can 613 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 10: remember they talked about my dad and say, well, if 614 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 10: you're over six foot tall, it's you. You want to 615 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 10: be five ten five. Look at all these guys on 616 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 10: tour now that are you know, six two six three six, 617 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 10: or they're playing golf. They they may have been basketball players, 618 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 10: they're golf the tour pros or athletes. However, you know, 619 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 10: twenty thousand PGA pros promoting the game of golf. I've 620 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 10: been doing it. I kind of grew up, you know, 621 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 10: in the business. You know, you start, you know, you 622 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 10: start working in the cart barn, you start picking up 623 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 10: range balls, you caddy. I mean, you just kind of 624 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 10: grow a love for the game. I mean, you know, 625 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 10: I go up with the caddies. Day is she's seventy five. 626 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 10: I'm fired up. You know, left hand, I'm jack. 627 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 6: You know. 628 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 4: Riley, a righty, played at the University of Arizona. After 629 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 4: hurting his shoulder a few years ago, he started playing 630 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 4: as a lefty and he got down to a single 631 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 4: digit handicap from the opposite side of the ball. Here's 632 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 4: Cody Sinkler on the idea of givers verse takers. 633 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 7: There are many PGA tour players, professonal golfers who have 634 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 7: obviously given load. I mean, look at Tiger Woods of 635 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 7: what he's giving back. But when you start that journey, 636 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 7: you're certainly you're working for yourself. That's just how it is. 637 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 7: We tend to sacrifice our own golf games. 638 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 6: In order to do our job. 639 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 7: I mean, there's a reason why professional golfers are the 640 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 7: longer club pros. There's a reason why that isn't happen. 641 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 7: You sacrifice your own golf game. There's not time to 642 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 7: practice and play. 643 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 6: You just don't have it. 644 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 7: So I would say generally yes, but there are a 645 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 7: lot of those people, those men and women who have 646 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 7: used that personal game to then give back sort of in. 647 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 6: A different backwards way. 648 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 7: But yes, we sacrifice a lot of we sacrifice our 649 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 7: own golf game. It's sort of the first sacrificial lamb 650 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 7: is my golf game is going to go this way 651 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 7: so I can help take this golf course or this 652 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 7: golf club. 653 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 4: Back to Josh Doxetter on the same subject. 654 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 5: I would I don't know if as go as far 655 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 5: as say takers. You know, being in and at higher 656 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 5: end facilities, you know, we get requests all the time, 657 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 5: whether tour players or celebrities or things like that. And 658 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 5: a lot of those who are trying to be up 659 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 5: and coming on tour, you know, being here in Ben 660 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 5: Harbor and having point of woods in the western the 661 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 5: western end, and you know, all these different players, I 662 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 5: would say majority of them are asking for something to 663 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 5: use the practice facilities for free, to play golf for free. 664 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 5: You know, some of those different things which for me 665 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 5: as a PGA professional and a commitment to growing the 666 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 5: game yeah, we get a lot, right, you know, we 667 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 5: we we do whatever we can to make sure that 668 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 5: or I do, in my opinion, everything I can to 669 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 5: make sure that I have a future for many years 670 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 5: to come in the game of golf, and those who 671 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 5: are behind me who have that same or come from 672 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 5: that same have that same opportunity as well. So I 673 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 5: do believe that the PJ professional is a giver. They're 674 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 5: a giver of time or a giver of resources. You know, 675 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 5: you can you can recountless stories of how they've helped 676 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 5: either in their communities or help the dreamers get to. 677 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 6: Where they are. 678 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 5: You know, I've had the opportunity to do that with 679 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 5: a few young players as well. 680 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 4: I'm going back to Rick Riley for the definition of 681 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 4: what makes a good club prop You. 682 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 10: Got to have a love for it. I mean, my 683 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 10: dad always said, there's to be a good PGA professional 684 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 10: you got five points. You got to be a player. 685 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 10: You got to be a teacher, you got to be 686 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 10: an administrator, you got to be a rules expert. Probably 687 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 10: most important, you have to be a people person. You 688 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 10: cannot survive on my side of the business if you 689 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 10: don't interact with people well and take care of people. 690 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 10: I mean, it's it's a tough business because sometimes you 691 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 10: got to say no, and it's not easy to say no. 692 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 10: Toe some of these people are, you know, paying fifteen 693 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 10: hundred a month and paid one hundred and twenty thousand 694 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 10: dollars and it's like, yeah, this is you know, we 695 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 10: have two hundred and two hunred people on the golf course. 696 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 10: Then I'm sorry, I can't get you out till two o'clock. 697 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 10: But so it's a people business and that's what it 698 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,439 Speaker 10: boils down. You don't let people you're in the wrong 699 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 10: side of business here, so you get a lot of guys. 700 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 10: I'm looking at Ben hog and beg Home, one of 701 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 10: the greatest ball strikers of all time. They call him 702 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 10: the wii Iceman. I mean, he probably couldn't have survived 703 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 10: in a golf shop because he didn't have the personality 704 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 10: of the makeup, but he had the person out on 705 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 10: the golf course that was perfect for him. So for me, 706 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 10: that's one of the things my dad always said, Listen, 707 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 10: it's you got to be well rounded. You can't be 708 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 10: one dimensional. If you're just a player, you're not going 709 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 10: to survive running a country club or a private club 710 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 10: or a daily fear, a municipal You want to be 711 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 10: a you want to be a five point player? 712 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 4: Meet Robbins Manly, who became a Class A pro twenty 713 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 4: years ago. He was an assistant pro at Breckenridge Golf 714 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 4: Club for both decades, golf in the summer, skiing in 715 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 4: the winter. Getting married. At the age of forty six, 716 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 4: he left the golf industry and although he still has 717 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 4: his PGA membership and teaches on occasion, his focus is 718 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 4: real estate. Here are his thoughts on what it takes 719 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 4: to be a good club pro. 720 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 3: Right off of that is your community, your communication and 721 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 3: your interpersonal skills with the members, are the guests, and 722 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 3: being aware of what is going on at all times 723 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 3: at your golf course. What is pace of play? Knowing 724 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 3: what that is happening at all times, whether you're in 725 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 3: the office or checking in, is what is going on 726 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 3: at your club at all times? And being present, being active, 727 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 3: being present, knowing the game, knowing the rules of golf, 728 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 3: being able to teach it. 729 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 6: You don't have to. 730 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 3: I mean we still are better than Yeah, we joke 731 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 3: about you know, we all shoot whatever, seventy five, seventy 732 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 3: three whatever. That's better than most all of our members. 733 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 3: So we can still play the game that we're not 734 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 3: going to to the tour, but we can we can 735 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 3: certainly play the game and teach the game and knowing 736 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 3: all those aspects tournament operations, knowing how to run a 737 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 3: legitimate tournament where there's not you know, handicaps that are 738 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 3: wrong and you find out too late and in those 739 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 3: kind of things. 740 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 6: So it. 741 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 3: Takes a lot of different pieces to put all together. 742 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 3: And that's part of the reason the hours are so long, 743 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 3: because if you want to visit and be out and 744 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 3: visit with the people that are playing, you've got to 745 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 3: do the tournament set up at night after everybody's gone, 746 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 3: or if you're doing the tournament set up during the 747 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 3: day for the next day, then you're not being seen. 748 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 3: And so to be great it takes a lot of hours, 749 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 3: are a bigger staff, and then the money is spread 750 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 3: out that much more. 751 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 9: So what is. 752 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 3: I don't know the answer, like I said, but you know, 753 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 3: if you had five great assistants, then you don't have 754 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 3: to work. 755 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 2: It's much. 756 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 3: But where are those five assistants going to get their 757 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 3: money from? 758 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 4: Josh doxet Are again on his definition of a quality 759 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 4: club pro. 760 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 5: Well, I think there's a few different places you look. 761 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 5: I think number one, everything's driven through the experience. So 762 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 5: what type of experience are you delivering to numbers and 763 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 5: guests every single day? Is that an experience through a relationship? 764 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 5: Is that an experience through a fitting or a lesson 765 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 5: or just conversation? You know some of those different things. So, 766 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 5: like you said, the having being able to be a 767 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 5: people person, be able to have conversations to you, you're 768 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 5: your job to make everybody feel good, right, and we 769 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 5: all know that can wear you out over time. A 770 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 5: secondary I would just say, you know, how good are 771 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 5: you operationally? How good are you managing what you're given? 772 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 5: How good are you How good are you at navigating 773 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 5: challenges and making decisions quickly so it doesn't have a 774 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 5: major impact on your P and L at the end 775 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 5: of the month. You know some of those, So that's 776 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 5: the business acum inside of things. And then how good 777 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 5: are you at coaching the people around you? How good 778 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 5: are you at lifting them up and making sure that 779 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 5: they have everything that they need to be successful? Because 780 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 5: if you're going to be a leader in this industry's 781 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 5: that's who you are. You have to lean on them 782 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 5: as much as they lean on you, and they have 783 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 5: to know that when you guys go to war, everybody's 784 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 5: got each other's back. 785 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 4: Here's Brad Sniper of Raleigh, North Carolina. He's twenty nine. 786 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 4: He graduated from NC State in golf management. His internships 787 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 4: were at TPC Potomac, Durrell and Sleepy Hollow. He worked 788 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 4: at Philly Cricket Club for two summer seasons and a 789 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 4: winter at John's Island in Florida. He spent time as 790 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 4: a head fitter at Liberty National, and although he's still 791 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 4: a class A professional, he's been out of the green 792 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 4: grass aspect of the industry since twenty nineteen. He's now 793 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 4: at Global Value Commerce, which owns Global Golf and Three Balls. 794 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 4: He's an online club retailer. Here's his thoughts on what 795 00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,959 Speaker 4: it takes to be a good club. 796 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 11: It's definitely beneficial to be that well rounded professional, someone 797 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 11: who can, you know, take missus McGillicutty out to the 798 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,919 Speaker 11: range for a quick lesson, you know, teach juniors, teach 799 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 11: higher level players, and then you know, run a big tournament, 800 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 11: run a member, guests and then still be able to 801 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 11: head out as a fourth if someone needs you and 802 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 11: play well enough to not embarrass yourself. So there, you know, 803 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,439 Speaker 11: I have with all my friends still in that side 804 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 11: of the business. One of my closest friends he works 805 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 11: in ash or excuse me, Fayetteville and he works for 806 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 11: Operation thirty six. He's always wanted to be that instructor side. 807 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 11: So if you want to kind of really narrow the focus, 808 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:59,280 Speaker 11: it's something that you have to kind of do quickly 809 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 11: right off the bat and put everything you have into it. 810 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 11: It's there are so many people trying to do the 811 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 11: same thing, so it's so competitive, and especially that high 812 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 11: end teaching side, it can it's it's a lot you 813 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 11: really have to push yourself, especially with social media and 814 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 11: these different avenues of people can if they if they're 815 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 11: looking for a lesson, they can find one on their phone. 816 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 11: So you have to really, you know, if that's your choice, 817 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 11: that teaching side, you really have to to put one 818 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 11: hundred and ten percent into it and kind of almost 819 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 11: set yourself apart from the pack, give people a reason 820 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 11: to come to you rather than so and so on 821 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 11: YouTube or. 822 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 6: You know, the you know the other bro down the street. 823 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 11: So kind of go back to your question, it's definitely 824 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 11: more beneficial to have everything to be able to touch 825 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 11: on all those sides. But are there are only so 826 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 11: many hours in the day, honestly, So once you get 827 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 11: into something like that where you're kind of putting, you know, 828 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 11: putting balls in different buckets, it's you run out of 829 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,240 Speaker 11: you run out of time, you run out. 830 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 6: Of effort at some point. 831 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 11: So yeah, to get the good jobs to move up, 832 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 11: you really got to show you're good at everything. But 833 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 11: at some point you have to focus a little bit. 834 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 11: Everyone kind of has their forte, but you definitely have 835 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 11: to be able to touch every other side. 836 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 4: And finally, back to Kieran. 837 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 9: Ken War, the good things are from the pros. I know, 838 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,280 Speaker 9: the very few pros I know that they're really good people, 839 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 9: and they're very kindly and personable, and for a lot 840 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 9: of people sometimes they're like your own private psychologist. You know, 841 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 9: you have life wares, you have golf wares, and they're 842 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,720 Speaker 9: just nice people and they're making you feel good about yourself, 843 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 9: which I think is where you can't sort of negate 844 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 9: that the importance of that. You know, that's really important 845 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 9: in its own right, that you're doing a lot of good, 846 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 9: and then you might do some Basically you're doing a 847 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 9: trial and error unless you know scientifically whether what you 848 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 9: say is right or wrong. So sometimes it works and 849 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,399 Speaker 9: a person plays well, and that's another thing that you're 850 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 9: doing for them. You're helping them play well. You may 851 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 9: not always succeed, it may not work under pressure, but 852 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,879 Speaker 9: overall that person's game has improved. And that's like big deal. 853 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 9: I mean, you know, And then you can just shrug 854 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 9: and say, oh, it's golf. That's as good as you get. 855 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 9: But you really are helping to improve a lot of 856 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 9: people physically and mentally. You might throw in some fitness stuff, 857 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 9: you might improve their clubs and get them to play better. 858 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 9: Whatever you do, you're contributing to someone's life. And with 859 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 9: all that the planet has faced with the pandemic and 860 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,720 Speaker 9: then war and this and that you make people feel 861 00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:00,280 Speaker 9: happy and confident in themselves. That's a big deal, I think. 862 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 4: And with that we're stopping down. This ends Part one 863 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 4: of this series on the club pro crisis. In part two, 864 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,439 Speaker 4: which will drop next week, the Shane Ryan story more 865 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 4: from Chandler, Withington, Cody, Robbins, Brad and Butch, and we 866 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 4: hear from Susie Whaley. We get to the heart of 867 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 4: the matter. Is it a work life balance or is 868 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 4: it an awareness issue or is it both? And how 869 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 4: did COVID play a factor in where we are today. 870 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,839 Speaker 1: At the university level, you have the PGM programs, which 871 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,760 Speaker 1: is run by the PGA. A lot of good programs 872 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: around the country, have a very good one here at 873 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,439 Speaker 1: the UNLV where I live in Las Vegas. I try 874 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: and do a lot of work with them, but they're 875 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 1: taught from a manual. They have a Manuel, a teaching manual, 876 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: a business manual, this and that, And they get upset 877 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: with me because I always speak either at their graduations 878 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: or I get him out to my places at once 879 00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,439 Speaker 1: a year and talk to and I say, Tom, look 880 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: the first thing you need to do when you graduate 881 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 1: from this course. And I hold their manual off. I said, 882 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: this is what you're tested on. This manual right here. 883 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: Throw that in the garbage because you're never going to 884 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,240 Speaker 1: use it again because everything in here is cookie cut. 885 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,800 Speaker 6: Put another log on the fire. 886 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 4: Nobody here is Geptie