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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily and and you're listening to stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom never told you. Today we are tackling a topic

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Speaker 1: that is near and dear to our hearts as usual,

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Speaker 1: and we really learned a lot through the research of

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Speaker 1: this one, because today we're talking about women and a

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Speaker 1: d h D, which I mistakenly called a d D

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Speaker 1: for many, many years, Um, but come to find out,

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Speaker 1: a d h D is the proper way to talk

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Speaker 1: about the mental disordered formerly known as a d D exactly. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but we're really excited to talk through why. On so

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Speaker 1: many levels, gender plays a huge role in the diagnosis

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Speaker 1: of and treatment of dealing with a d h D

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Speaker 1: and really how women experience this in with very different

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Speaker 1: symptoms than our male counterparts and are amongst a huge

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Speaker 1: population of people who were getting diagnosed more and more

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Speaker 1: um and being treated with medication for a d D

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Speaker 1: like at skyrocketing rates right now. Yeah. And I think

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Speaker 1: what's so interesting about this topic is that I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's one of those things where everyone knows someone

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Speaker 1: who this impacts, like whether it's you or a friend

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Speaker 1: or a family member. UM. I was diagnosed with a

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Speaker 1: d h D when I was pretty young. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: not something that, uh plays a huge role in my

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Speaker 1: life as an adult. But I think I've mentioned on

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Speaker 1: the show before that my mom is a pediatrician, and

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Speaker 1: so she was very, um, you know, particular about our

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Speaker 1: seeing doctors and specialists. We were the family that like,

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Speaker 1: if you coughed, my mom like had a doctor. I'm

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Speaker 1: a hypochondriac, so I wish I had that my mom

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Speaker 1: and nurse was like, if you're not hemorrhaging, you're fine,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, let me go to all the

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Speaker 1: special us. Um. But yeah, So I was medicated pretty early.

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Speaker 1: I think I was in like eighth grade, and I

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Speaker 1: was on medication until around high school, when my parents

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Speaker 1: were like, you know, you're getting to be older now.

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Speaker 1: If you want to stay medicated, you can, but if

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Speaker 1: you want to wean off of it, you can do

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Speaker 1: that too, And that's what I chose to do. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So if you've been off that medication, yeah, I've been

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Speaker 1: off of it since like late high school. Um. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think I had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a rough time getting like getting out of high school,

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Speaker 1: like that was really tough for me. Um. But I

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Speaker 1: feel like as an adult, like it's just I have

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Speaker 1: my like means of coping that that seemed to work. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's a big part of research found, right, So

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Speaker 1: let's wow. I'm I'm fascinated by your take on his

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Speaker 1: bridget because I had no idea coming into this topic,

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Speaker 1: um that you had such a personal connection to it.

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Speaker 1: So so walk me through. Let's let's sort of go

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Speaker 1: back to the very beginning. And see, I always thought

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Speaker 1: of a d d h D is something I associated

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Speaker 1: with hyperactive voice, right, and so that's very common and

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Speaker 1: so with uh so boys. You know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things about a d h D is that it tends

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Speaker 1: to be diagnosed by like teachers and like grade school

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Speaker 1: and the teachers because of that, like they have a

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Speaker 1: real association sometimes with like hyperactivity being something that is

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Speaker 1: an issue for a little boy, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: and then like in the seventies, when a d h

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Speaker 1: D and a d D was first being studied by

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Speaker 1: psychiatrists and like mental health professionals, it was really like affluent,

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Speaker 1: um middle class white families who were taking their their

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Speaker 1: particularly their sons in diagnosed for this, and so subsequently

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Speaker 1: we really think of it as a little boys disorder.

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Speaker 1: And then like it's a disorder that we associate with

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Speaker 1: boys and with male nous. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why that is so telling is because for women and

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Speaker 1: for girls, the symptoms look very different. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: the expression like the squeaky wheel gets the grease, Like

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Speaker 1: if you're in a classroom and you're a teacher and

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Speaker 1: you're seeing like, oh my, my little boy, students are noisy,

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Speaker 1: either out of their chairs, they're hyperactive, there are probably

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Speaker 1: going to be the ones that get focused on. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the girls student who is has the same disorder because

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Speaker 1: it presents itself different and it manifests itself in a

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Speaker 1: different way that doesn't look like, you know, fidgeting or

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Speaker 1: being impulsive or being disruptive or whatever. That student is

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Speaker 1: more likely to sort of go through the cracks. With boys,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, a d h D manifests itself and

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Speaker 1: like hyperactivity, impulsive behavior. For girls, it's much more likely

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Speaker 1: to look like scattered, disorganized, unfocused but correct quiet, like

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Speaker 1: internal exactly over their own habits and stressing out. And

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Speaker 1: that is like completely me when I was that was

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Speaker 1: like completely the kind of kid I was growing up.

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Speaker 1: But girls are much more likely than boys to develop

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Speaker 1: like these internal coping mechanisms of like trying to keep

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Speaker 1: it all together, and so it is is like a

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Speaker 1: sense of internal silent struggle and just trying to keep

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Speaker 1: it all together until you can't write. And that that

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Speaker 1: sounds like such an isolating and scary and anxiety provoking

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Speaker 1: way to go through your diagnosis. And it's just it's

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Speaker 1: challenging to me because I think of girls and women

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Speaker 1: as the more communicative gender in a lot of fronts.

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Speaker 1: But the research here says that women are less likely

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Speaker 1: to be diagnosed because quote, as girls, they just don't

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Speaker 1: look like what people think of when they picture a

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Speaker 1: d h D. This is according to Dr Jerry Marco,

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Speaker 1: and really this is exactly the experience that my little

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Speaker 1: sister had, which was internalizing those symptoms as being personal failings,

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Speaker 1: like really saying I am just lazy, I'm lazy, right

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Speaker 1: like women, According to the research, women are much more

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Speaker 1: likely to negatively internalize tommade h D as like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm a failure. And I do think that like plays

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Speaker 1: into how we think about you know, gender in general,

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Speaker 1: that like women are supposed to be, you know, have

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Speaker 1: it together, to be organized, more likely to be type

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Speaker 1: more likely to be multitasking and juggling. Women have a

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Speaker 1: reputation of being the more organized gender totally, and that

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Speaker 1: totally disconnects for women dealing with a d h D

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Speaker 1: or little girls dealing with it. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just one of those ways that like

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Speaker 1: gender complicates, like like using that lens of gender really

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Speaker 1: complicates what these what these women are going through, what

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Speaker 1: these young ladies are going through, because you know, we

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Speaker 1: we as women, we put such high standards on ourselves

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Speaker 1: and like, you know, you have to be the perfect way,

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Speaker 1: look the perfect way, at the perfect way, all of that,

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Speaker 1: and it's just one more way that like that lineup

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Speaker 1: thinking just like fails us. Yeah, it's it's much more

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Speaker 1: nuanced than that, definitely. And what I found really fascinating

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Speaker 1: here is that symptoms of a d h D increase,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, decrease for boys as they grow up into men,

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Speaker 1: but the opposite is true for girls. So these girls

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Speaker 1: who might have developed coping mechanisms throughout high school and

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Speaker 1: dealt with it in one way or another through college,

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Speaker 1: when there is some semblance of structure in our lives,

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Speaker 1: um often experience greater levels of anxiety and stress and

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Speaker 1: depression and really the symptoms of a d h D

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Speaker 1: as they grow up and their roles expand to encompass

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Speaker 1: things like balancing relationships, staring for children, and trying to

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Speaker 1: keep it all together at work and at home. And

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Speaker 1: you know, me, I'm obsessed with the whole work life

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Speaker 1: balance conversation in this tree and how flawed it is

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Speaker 1: on so many levels. And this really opened my eyes

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Speaker 1: to the ways in which, you know, mental health needs

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Speaker 1: to be a bigger part of the conversation as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's that's so true. And I

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Speaker 1: also think in terms of like how lives are structured.

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Speaker 1: When you get to be about your mid twenties as

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Speaker 1: a woman, that's when you start to have a lot

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Speaker 1: of your you know, a lot of your like big

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Speaker 1: life milestones, and it's it's those are the um and

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Speaker 1: those are the milestones that really play into things like,

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Speaker 1: you know, time management organized, and it's like if you

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Speaker 1: have these coping mechanisms that really help you get through

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Speaker 1: the structure of college life, you know, living on a dorm,

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Speaker 1: all of that, when you graduate and you start to

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Speaker 1: sort of hit these other milestones, that's when these things

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Speaker 1: can really fall apart, and a lot of the women

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Speaker 1: who deal with a d h D later in life

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Speaker 1: just describe it as like, you know, I was coping,

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Speaker 1: I was holding it together until one day I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel um? I think I did. I think

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Speaker 1: I I felt that way in some in some respects.

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Speaker 1: I think for me, my biggest thing is that like

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Speaker 1: kind of like what you were saying earlier, like I

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Speaker 1: always just thought, you know, I'm just really disorganized. I'm

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Speaker 1: just really um, you know, someone who was like a

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Speaker 1: little bit flighty like I. I kind of like thought

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Speaker 1: of it as like a personality, And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that it was helpful knowing that I had a

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Speaker 1: d h D, like pretty much since I was really young,

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Speaker 1: was really helpful in terms of like not internalizing it

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Speaker 1: in a very negative way, because like I just knew,

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Speaker 1: like you know, I've been seeing a neurologist for a

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Speaker 1: very long time, and like, yeah, it just it just

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Speaker 1: wasn't something that I because it was such a something

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Speaker 1: that was so you know ingrained in me from an

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Speaker 1: early age. It was not something that I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of, like negative feeling. I learned to not have

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Speaker 1: negative feelings about right, which I think is a really

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Speaker 1: healthy way to develop your sense of self with without

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Speaker 1: being so critical. I've got a question about the diagnostic

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about that first, because I was just

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Speaker 1: talking through um this situation with my little sister who

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Speaker 1: is less than a month into treatment for a d

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Speaker 1: h D. So she just got diagnosed, and I asked her,

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Speaker 1: and I think we can talk more about the judgment

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Speaker 1: that comes with medication in a second. But I was

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Speaker 1: talking with her about her perceived judgment there and she

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Speaker 1: mentioned really quickly how she got diagnosed, and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 1: Take me back to that, because there were questionnaires, there

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Speaker 1: were quizzes, there were a visual response test, there was

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Speaker 1: like hearing response tests, and they were they were really

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Speaker 1: there was a very robust um diagnostic being used by

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Speaker 1: her d h D specialists she went to to diagnose

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Speaker 1: this um. But as we came to find out in

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Speaker 1: the research here, even that very nuanced and clinical diagnostic

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Speaker 1: tool has a gendered component. Definitely, yeah, definitely. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like anything else I feel like, because it's so

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Speaker 1: kind of like tilt skewed towards men and boys. It's

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Speaker 1: like women just sort of like can easily fall through

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Speaker 1: the cracks. But I think that's true for heart disease stress.

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Speaker 1: All the stress research, all of the research is done

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Speaker 1: for like, for lack of a better word, like male

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Speaker 1: bodies and like women are just and it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: like we understand why that makes no sense when it

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Speaker 1: comes to physical ailments, right, Like women's bodies are different

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Speaker 1: than men's bodies, you know, etcetera. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: harder to wrap your head around it when it's something

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Speaker 1: that's not physical. Right. Oh, good point. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: folks in the medical field listening to this can tell us, like,

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Speaker 1: is there a movement towards sample size being gender split?

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Speaker 1: Like can we start taking research in the direction of

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Speaker 1: only using test samples on like people that are both

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Speaker 1: male and female? And I would argue, like along the

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Speaker 1: whole spectrum and then by any folks, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that we should do that, And I think

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Speaker 1: that like it's I feel like this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: one of those things where I mean, and I'm no

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Speaker 1: doctor to like write it. If I mom in here,

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Speaker 1: we'll have a call in Dr Toddy. She would you

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Speaker 1: guys would love her? She no doubt, but no so

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Speaker 1: I think that, like, I wonder if this is going

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Speaker 1: to be one of those things where later we realize

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Speaker 1: we've done We've done bodies a great disservice by like

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Speaker 1: discounting them and letting them, letting their issues, their particular

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Speaker 1: like medical and emotional issues kind of like go unstudied

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Speaker 1: in a in a in an individualized way. If that

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Speaker 1: makes sense, I totally it does. And so what we've

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Speaker 1: ound here is that one criteria of a d h

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Speaker 1: D UM Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which was published by

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Speaker 1: the APIA, the American Psychiatric Association, one of the criteria

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Speaker 1: for diagnosis was that symptoms appear by age seven, which

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Speaker 1: is true for boys and totally not true for girls,

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Speaker 1: for whom a d h D tends to manifest in

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Speaker 1: the term in the form of the symptoms we discussed

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Speaker 1: later on in life and especially as estrogen levels increase, right,

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Speaker 1: which is correlation between a d h D symptoms and

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Speaker 1: estrogen and the totally and so with boys, it's I

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Speaker 1: think that we that plays totally into how we think

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Speaker 1: about it, because the idea is that like, oh, a

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Speaker 1: boy will like quote grow out of it, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: that line of thinking is doing a great disservice to

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Speaker 1: these these young ladies and women who are like in fact,

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Speaker 1: growing into it. Um, and so I just think it's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting, and I want to get more

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Speaker 1: into sort of how a d h D looks and

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Speaker 1: women and the sort of skills that women have to

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Speaker 1: deal with that, and I think that we should do that.

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Speaker 1: After a quick you were just talking about the symptoms

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Speaker 1: of a d h D and how they manifest themselves

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Speaker 1: in women and girls. And again, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a topic that we both have such personal ties to,

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Speaker 1: and I think um port of knowing that has been

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Speaker 1: sort of an interesting way to frame this discussion. That's,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's researched with him, but it's also very personal, right.

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Speaker 1: I hope that's coming through at least, because I really

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Speaker 1: just witnessed my little sister go through this from a distance.

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Speaker 1: She's in her she just wrapped up her first year

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Speaker 1: of college at Smith Um shout out to smith and

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Speaker 1: and it was really hard to watch as her big

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Speaker 1: sister from afar as she was struggling academically and struggling

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Speaker 1: to keep it all together in an environment without the

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Speaker 1: structure that my mom and dad have provided previously, and

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Speaker 1: I have to say, like, I'll be the first to

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Speaker 1: admit that I had a little bit of judgment because

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Speaker 1: I had trouble relating to my little sister's experience when

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Speaker 1: she would say things like I'm just lazy, I'm just

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Speaker 1: just organized, and I'm thinking, I'm you know, you're just

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Speaker 1: addicted to your phone, like so many of us are,

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Speaker 1: um that when you know, I, I definitely am part

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Speaker 1: of the problem in terms of women who face judgment

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Speaker 1: for I don't want to say coming out as a

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Speaker 1: d h D, but like we're seeking treatment and asking

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Speaker 1: for support, and I think it's a testament to how

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Speaker 1: brave my little sister really is and how fiercely independent

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Speaker 1: she really is to say she took charge of her

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Speaker 1: health she like really made it a priority, which is

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Speaker 1: part of the challenge here, right, because if you're not

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Speaker 1: feeling super capable of being organized, like making your health

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Speaker 1: care a priority takes the organizational skills, so it's very meta.

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Speaker 1: But she made that a priority. She got a real diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: It took months, and the doctor that she was working

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Speaker 1: with for the diagnostics said, well, what's your g p A,

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Speaker 1: And she said, I have a three point three at

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Speaker 1: Smith and he's like, why are you even here? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the best because so that's textbook, right, Like that's

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Speaker 1: so common. Um. There's a really great article in The

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Speaker 1: Atlantic Um where the writer UM comes to Basically it's

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Speaker 1: all about how she got diagnosed, and she says that

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Speaker 1: when she told her friends that she had a d

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Speaker 1: h D, they basically laughed at her. And this is

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Speaker 1: what she says. She says, of course her friends said,

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Speaker 1: of course you don't have a d h D. You're smart,

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Speaker 1: A friend told me definitively before switching to a farm work.

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Speaker 1: Compelling topic medication, So you're gonna take adderall and becomes

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Speaker 1: super skinny? Are you gonna sell it? Are you going

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Speaker 1: to snort it? And so it's this idea that like

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things that for women, if you're

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Speaker 1: at a good college and you get good grades, people

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Speaker 1: think that you can't like you Yeah, well yeah right,

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Speaker 1: I see you're saying. They assume that you feel organized

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And so for me, I mean, I got

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Speaker 1: decent grades in school and I enjoyed going to school,

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Speaker 1: and that like because of that, it seems like like

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Speaker 1: it must all be fine. I must be very together,

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Speaker 1: but people don't see the internal work that it takes

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Speaker 1: to perfectly that it looks very like different externally and

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Speaker 1: that's exactly and I feel like that's so gendered. I like,

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Speaker 1: you know, never let them see sweat. And I think, um,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a disorder that I think folks can

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Speaker 1: feel a bit judging about because it's like anyone can

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Speaker 1: show symptoms of having a d h D. Look if

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Speaker 1: you've ever forgotten your keys or missed an appointment. It

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Speaker 1: feels like it's very over diagnosed. It feels like it's

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Speaker 1: something that like, oh, people are like, oh, I have

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Speaker 1: a d h D, give me drugs please, like performance

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Speaker 1: enhancing exactly exactly, And like, you know, there's certainly a

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Speaker 1: pop culture um pop culture thing where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: the overachieving um female, Like I'm thinking of a fever.

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Speaker 1: Watch the show Community, the character of Annie, who like

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Speaker 1: is super you know, organizing together, and then like later

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Speaker 1: it's revealed the reason that like, you know, clearly she's

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Speaker 1: a high performer, but the reason that she's at a

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Speaker 1: community college and not like Harvard is because she has

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Speaker 1: a d h D. And that when she was in

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Speaker 1: high school she got really really into her a d

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Speaker 1: h D medications and like flunked out. And so this

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Speaker 1: idea that like girls or women who are who get

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Speaker 1: a d h D medication and seek treatment one that

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Speaker 1: they're sort of like just falling back on this like

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Speaker 1: very convenient diagnosis, the crutch, and then to this that

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Speaker 1: they're getting drugs to abuse them. And certainly I think that, like,

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Speaker 1: at least in my college, um, abusing a d h

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Speaker 1: D drugs was like a very common thing college. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was like a very common thing. But that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that like if you are someone who is like

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Speaker 1: seeking treatment for this and needs it medically, that like

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Speaker 1: you should be associated with folks who are like taking

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Speaker 1: it recreationally or like don't actually need it, which I

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Speaker 1: think does a disservice to those who do need it.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's time we all check ourselves on

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Speaker 1: that a little bit, because putting this episode together really

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Speaker 1: helped me check that bias, because it's it's hard to

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Speaker 1: understand what someone else is going through in their own mind.

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Speaker 1: And that's when I asked my sister to describe the

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Speaker 1: before and after, and keep in mind just less than

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Speaker 1: a month into her treatment, but I said, tell me

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Speaker 1: what it felt like before, And this is not something

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Speaker 1: I had asked her before because I was looking for

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Speaker 1: visible symptoms. I was looking for, you know, failings or

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Speaker 1: external validation for her diagnosis. And instead what I should

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Speaker 1: have been asking her, and thankfully this podcast episode helped

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Speaker 1: me do so was well, what was your mind experiencing?

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Speaker 1: What were you feeling like? And what she told me was, frankly,

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Speaker 1: it just felt really noisy in there. And I had

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Speaker 1: a lot of open tabs all the time, and I

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Speaker 1: wasn't just thinking about one thing at a time, ever,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about lots of different things at the time.

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Speaker 1: Now with medication, it's like night and day, whatever I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: I can at least zoom in on that one tab,

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Speaker 1: focus on one tab that like shout out to your

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Speaker 1: sister for that like beautiful description, because that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: it is like. Having a d h D is sometimes

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Speaker 1: can feel like like you know, when you have way

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Speaker 1: too many windows open Chrome, Like it's like that, like um,

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting. I mean like again, it's so internal

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Speaker 1: that it's like easy to not see what it looks

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Speaker 1: like from like from the outside of someone like you know,

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Speaker 1: your sister is a good college. It's very easy to

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Speaker 1: be like, Oh, she's got it all together. And we

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Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that this is a serious

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Speaker 1: disorder that can in many ways snowball into more serious

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Speaker 1: problems from a mental health perspective. And I thought this

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Speaker 1: quote was really important for women and girls. Quote. Women

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Speaker 1: with a d h D are more likely to internalize

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Speaker 1: the negative experiences associated with their a d h D,

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Speaker 1: and many report feeling that they're broken, flawed, or stupid.

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Speaker 1: Girls with a d h D show higher rates of anxiety, depression,

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Speaker 1: eating disorders, self harm, and suicide attempts as they move

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Speaker 1: into adolescence, and women who have gone undiagnosed are more

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Speaker 1: likely to have experienced divorce and unemployment and to suffer

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Speaker 1: from poor self concept. So we have to be more

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Speaker 1: empathic when we're talking about a d D, d h D,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, especially when it comes

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Speaker 1: to not judging our female friends and family members who

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Speaker 1: might be suffering with this. So we're gonna take a

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Speaker 1: quick break. When we come back, we're gonna list off

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Speaker 1: some of the warning signs to watch out for. If

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Speaker 1: this episode is resonating with you, We're gonna show you

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Speaker 1: sort of a checklist to keep in mind. Um, that

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Speaker 1: might make you want to go talk to a professional

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Speaker 1: about this, But we'll be right back after a quick

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and we're back, and we want

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Speaker 1: to talk through some of the warning signs to watch

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Speaker 1: out for, questions to ask yourself if you think that

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Speaker 1: you or maybe someone you love is maybe silently suffering

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Speaker 1: with a d h D, which they don't have to

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Speaker 1: continue silently suffering with exactly. I mean, that's my whole

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Speaker 1: point is that if you feel like you're feeling overwhelmed,

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Speaker 1: or you feel like you you this sounds like you,

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Speaker 1: like you can take your mental health in your own

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Speaker 1: hands and sort of prioritize dealing with it. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: And so this is a little bit of a checklist

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Speaker 1: from Attitude magazine on some ways that folks with a

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Speaker 1: d h D are feeling. And so I just want

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Speaker 1: to be a couple of them. And if it sounds

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Speaker 1: like you, I would encourage you to, you know, talk

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Speaker 1: to your medical health professional and you know, do some digging.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel overwhelmed in stores, at the office, or

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Speaker 1: at parties? Is it impossible for you to shut out

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Speaker 1: sounds and distractions? That don't bother others. Is money, paper,

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00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: time or stuff dominating your life and hampering your ability

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Speaker 1: to achieve your goals. So I just want to pause

407
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Speaker 1: there because like, for me, it's interesting how it manifests

408
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Speaker 1: itself because it looks so different for so many people.

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Speaker 1: But for me, it's like um, like paper, like physical

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Speaker 1: mail I cannot deal with, Like if I don't open

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Speaker 1: it and throw it away right away, it will pile up.

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Speaker 1: And it's like exactly exactly that's what my little sister

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Speaker 1: described you. Is this inability to pack. She talked about

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Speaker 1: packing being extraordinarily stressed. Packing is because like having to

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Speaker 1: start something that feels so unwieldy and impossible was overwhelming. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I gotta say something again, like I'm gonna get

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Speaker 1: into this more in a little bit, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I hate it when people have these sort of like

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Speaker 1: dumb qute ce like well this helped me, but something

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Speaker 1: that really, yeah, I'm gonna get into it again, like

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Speaker 1: don't don't like write it and be like, well that's

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Speaker 1: a dumb idea because this worked for me and like

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Speaker 1: is something that I found very therapeutic. And if it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work for you, cool because it might not. Um,

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Speaker 1: but something that really helped me kind of like deal

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Speaker 1: with that. And this sounds ridiculous, but cooking. So but

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Speaker 1: I like something about the idea of having to like

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Speaker 1: plan a meal, look at your fridge and be like

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Speaker 1: I have X, Y, and Z, I want to make

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00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: this recipe and I need you know this, that and

431
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: the other, having to plan that out, go to the store,

432
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: get the things on that list, plan on a block

433
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: of time. Like it's almost it's so therapeutic to me.

434
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: It's almost like a meditative exercise because it's like I

435
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: have to and again, I mean, the stakes are so

436
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: low that if I mess it up, like the biggest

437
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: thing that happens, I have to order repeat that the rear. Yeah,

438
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: that's actually happened to me. I once burned chicken and

439
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: a slow cooker, and I was like, if you know

440
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: you could burn things when a slow cooker like scorch it.

441
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: I came back and I was like, I have been

442
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: bragging all day about this meal I was gonna cook

443
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait, it's completely scorched, and so

444
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 1: I felt so ashamed. Um. But yeah, So something about

445
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 1: cooking and having to do all of the time management

446
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: and like budgeting that goes into cooking a good meal,

447
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: like a full meal. I have found a good way

448
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: to sort of practice, you know, dealing with time and

449
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: stuff and being a little bit organized. And it's a

450
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a great feel like it's like

451
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: a muscle that you can develop. That's how that. I

452
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: mean again, this is just me, so you know your

453
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: mom me very but like, yeah, I do feel like

454
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: that when I like when I have a stressful day

455
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: and I feel like I've had a day where like

456
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: I had, you know, everything got away from me. I

457
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: didn't answer any of the emails and any of the calls.

458
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: Like when I go home and cook a meal, something

459
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: about that makes me feel in control again, right, Like

460
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: I like it. It reminds me like I can do this.

461
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: I can like look at an hour and be like, Okay,

462
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: this has got to go in by this time to

463
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: eat at that time. Like it's like a reminder that

464
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: I can do it. I appreciate your Instagram food post

465
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: now more than ever. And I also want to say

466
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: that we have opinions on the kinds of advice that

467
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: women dealing with a d h D ten to sometimes

468
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: get to. Is this why you hate that book that

469
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: how to like clean exactly exactly, So like I have

470
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: a problem. I feel like women are given such particular

471
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: advice when they are dealing with like real stuff, and

472
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: I feel like the feelings around clutter. Yeah I am.

473
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: I am a clutter bug. Like I if you see

474
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: my apartment, like it's really cluttered, and like this idea

475
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: of like, well if you just tell you it up

476
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: your apartment, you would feel better. Like is that Japanese magic?

477
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: What is it? The life changing magic of Tidying Up

478
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: by Marie Condra? That thing went crazy? Are you looking

479
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: at that book and being like I hate that. I

480
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: don't like it. I don't like it. And I just

481
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: feel like we like, there's nothing that bothers me more

482
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: than when someone is like, oh I have a legit

483
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: medical issue or emotional issue and someone's like, have you

484
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: tried Jasmine Ta? It makes my blood boil. So I

485
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: want to give up big caveat that. Like, in researching

486
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: for this show, here are some of the things that

487
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: I have found from actual, you know, medical literature that

488
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: says can be a good um way to deal with

489
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: it if you're feeling some of the symptoms of a

490
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: d h D. But I want to say, like, it

491
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: annoys the crap out of me when someone is like, oh,

492
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: I'm dealing with like clinical depression and they're like, have

493
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: you tried to yoga? I would never get advice. Hey,

494
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: chemical solutions are also valid. I think what we're trying

495
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: to say here is, you know, if you feel like

496
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: any of those questions resonate with you, if you feel

497
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: like this is something you're really struggling with, do not

498
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: do this alone, like, go talk to a medical professional.

499
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: But often what medical professionals will tell you, according to

500
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: our research, is that the focus isn't necessarily on curing yourself,

501
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: but on finding what strategies effectively help you mitigate the

502
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: negative impacts or manage your symptoms. And I think I

503
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: think for some people it's it's medicine, for some people

504
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: it's therapy, for some people it's meditation, like and any

505
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: combination of those or something else is fine. Um. And

506
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: so some of the ways that they that they suggest

507
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: our mind full activities like yoga meditation can often be

508
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: helpful in terms of inducing calm and focus on the mind.

509
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: Physical exercise has been shown to be extremely helpful and

510
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: regulating mood, energy levels, and concentration. And there's also evidence

511
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: suggests that diet and nutritional supplements may have an impact

512
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: on a d h D symptoms. Um, but as yet

513
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: most studies are focused on children who are not really

514
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: sort of like doing those things, and that's just sort

515
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: of something. There's a lot more research that we need,

516
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: especially on millennial women or older women, women in their twenties,

517
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: thirties and beyond, who are integrating holistic solutions totally. And

518
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: I've got a question for you, So, when you decided

519
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: to deal with these symptoms without medicine, like what coping mechanisms.

520
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: Clearly meal cooking is definitely part of that, but like,

521
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: have you found diet, exercise, meditation, any of those things

522
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: that three to be to be integral to this. Yeah,

523
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: So when I made the choice to to wean off

524
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: of medication, really it was because as I was getting

525
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: this was you know, in high school, this is what

526
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: I was sort of getting more interested in the arts,

527
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: particularly like like writing and things like that, and the

528
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: medication I was on was very helpful, but I found

529
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: it was very difficult to um feel like a like

530
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: a creative person, like I've always felt very creative, but

531
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: I felt like being on the medication was had a

532
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: had a had a great impact on me um in

533
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: terms of being more organized and more focused, but it

534
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: had a negative impact on me feeling like I was

535
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: like a creative person. And so as I got older

536
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: and got more interested in like the arts writing, I

537
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: knew I was heading to college, and I knew I

538
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: was going to be, you know, hopefully doing those things

539
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: on college. I thought like, I really have to find

540
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: a way to deal with this. But it's not just um,

541
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: there's not just medication. And again there's nothing there's no

542
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: shame in being on medication, Like it just wasn't It

543
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: just did not feel like a good way to cope

544
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: for me. And I also sort of thought like I

545
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: didn't love the idea of being on medication for the

546
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: rest of my life, and it started to seem like

547
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: that was the direction in your head. Correct And so yeah,

548
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: it was things like therapy was been tremendously effective shout

549
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: out to shut therapy. And also just like having a

550
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: very very long term relationship with a great neurologist because

551
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: I had the same neurologist since I was like eight

552
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: years old, and even when I was in college and

553
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: not on medication. We would still check in whenever I

554
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: was home, and so like just having that that person

555
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: to talk through how I was feeling with um, you know,

556
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: and and sort of also what mean like to be

557
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: honest knowing that I could go back on medication if

558
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: that's if that was a choice, and so being able

559
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: to really have this like arsenal of ways to cope

560
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: was tremendously helpful. Choices are nice to have, and you know,

561
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: being personal with your solution important because there's no size

562
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: and there's no one size fits all solution. I have

563
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: a I have a very dear friend, UM Alison, who

564
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: has just now been medicated for a d h D.

565
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: And she is probably the funniest person that I know,

566
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: and she kind of makes she's kind of professionally funny,

567
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: like she wants to be a comedy writer, lives in Chicago,

568
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: And when we talked about this, I was like, you know,

569
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: do you ever worry that aid that your medication is

570
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: going to make you not funny anymore? And she was

571
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: like I did, but honestly, it's only made me sharper,

572
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: more focused, and so it's definitely like your milege may vary,

573
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: Like it depends on your you know, your own body's reaction. Also,

574
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: our hormones change over time, are you know, neurology changes

575
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: over time, So even what works for you and your

576
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: twenties might not work for you totally. So it's something

577
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: to think about. But I would hope that you know,

578
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: if this episode resonates with you, if you are finding

579
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: yourself feeling disorganized and cluttered and overwhelmed, and that overwhelmed

580
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: takes up a lot of mental chatter for you, um

581
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: to really consider, you know, taking your mental health care

582
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: into your hands, as Bridget said, and making it a

583
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: priority to go talk to someone about this because it

584
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: might not be you. It's not your personality necessarily, Like,

585
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: there are lots of ways in which anxiety, depression and

586
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: the symptoms that can also come with a d h

587
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: D can really add a burden to your life. You

588
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: might not need to you don't need to shoulder And

589
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: like again, if this sounds like you, You're not lazy,

590
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: you're not stupid, you're not bad, You shouldn't. I mean,

591
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: that's one of the things about a d h D

592
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: is the is the shame and stigma, Like you're not

593
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: a crappy human. You just you know, have a medical disorder.

594
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: It's like anything else, So take the time to to

595
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: seek out professional help see if that diagnostic works for you.

596
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: And mental health professionals out there, let's update that diagnostics

597
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: soon so we can make sure that unconscious bias based

598
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: on research that's been dominated by men and boys doesn't

599
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: creep in UM and miss really important symptoms that show

600
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: up differently for women. I think I think that's pretty

601
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: much what we had to say about a d d

602
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: h D. A lord you think by now I wouldn't

603
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: say a d D, but that's where my brain goes

604
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: right away. So if there's nothing else you take away,

605
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: let's all stop saying a d D along with me.

606
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: And we'd love to hear from you on this. So

607
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: we would love to hear if this is something that

608
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: resonates for you, if you recently got a diagnosis of

609
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: a d h D, how are you dealing, how are

610
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: you coping, how are you managing your symptoms? And let's

611
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: make our conversation online a safe space where we can

612
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: connect and we can share resources, and we want to

613
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: really hear from you and your experience UM on off medication, whatever,

614
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: has worked for you. We'd love to hear from you,

615
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: so send us an email at mom Stuff at how

616
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, shoot us a toe wheet. We

617
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: love to see what you have to say on Twitter

618
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast, and as always, snap a photo.

619
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: Find us on Instagram because we'd love to chat with

620
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: you there at stuff mom Never Told You