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Speaker 2: hymns dot com slash cow hurt. So, I was thinking

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Speaker 2: about San Antonio and my first question to you, and

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Speaker 2: it's just kind of a statement and say what you want.

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Speaker 2: But I'm old. So I watched Moses Malone and A

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Speaker 2: Keen and Shack and it had to be less old

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Speaker 2: to watch Duncan. I didn't see Russell or Chamberlain, but

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Speaker 2: all of them were big men, but there was a foundation,

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Speaker 2: there was girth, there was size. Wemby and I said

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Speaker 2: this about a year ago. Is closer to Ralph Sampson

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Speaker 2: and Sam Bowie. The latter NBA career basically shortened because

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Speaker 2: of injuries, and Ralph Sampson was good, didn't last quite

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Speaker 2: as long as you think. But there is a downside

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Speaker 2: of being seven to four and a half, and that

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Speaker 2: is most of our great centers have not only been big,

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Speaker 2: they move people. They're powerful. We think of Cat as

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Speaker 2: almost a finesse big right, like a perimeter big. He

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Speaker 2: has bullied Wemby and we knew Mitchell, Robinson and og

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Speaker 2: have some leverage. But to me, the series is, oh,

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Speaker 2: Cat is the best player in the series. To me,

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Speaker 2: has that surprised you?

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Speaker 3: No? No, I mean him being the best player in

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Speaker 3: this series. Sure, as hella surprised me. I mean him

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Speaker 3: giving Wemby issues. I think kind of is more or

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Speaker 3: less what we've expected. I think that that's been really

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Speaker 3: the story of Wenby's first playoff run is that these big,

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Speaker 3: physical centers that have some mobility with the ability to

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Speaker 3: beat him to spot. So the guys that can give

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Speaker 3: him issues, namely Isaiah Hartenstein. I even give Jalen Williams

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Speaker 3: a little bit of credit in the last round two.

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Speaker 3: I thought he had some moments and then Karl Anthony Towns.

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Speaker 3: And to be clear, it's like it's not like he's awful,

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Speaker 3: like he's averaging twenty eight and eleven. He's he's at

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Speaker 3: fifty four percent true shooting, which sounds bad. But this

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Speaker 3: series has been really low scoring, Like that's above the

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Speaker 3: true shooting percentage for both teams so far through two

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Speaker 3: games and Brunson for examples, at forty two percent. So

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Speaker 3: everyone's struggling. Wenby's actually been pretty effective. It's just looked

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Speaker 3: really hard. It's been like he's a cat in his

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Speaker 3: individual defense. And i'd extend this to the team. I

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Speaker 3: think the Knicks have done a wonderful job of just

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Speaker 3: mucking up his roles, just getting tons of bodies in

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Speaker 3: the paint as he's trying to roll to the basket

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Speaker 3: and kind of daring the Spurs to shoot, and they're

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Speaker 3: shooting thirty percent from three in the series. That's been

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Speaker 3: part of the problem. But as the roles have been

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Speaker 3: taken away and because he can't get close to the rim,

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Speaker 3: it's been a lot jump shots in a lot of

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Speaker 3: like even the buckets he gets around the rim. It

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Speaker 3: feels like he's fighting like hell to get just the

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Speaker 3: slightest bit of an edge, and there's no doubt that,

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Speaker 3: Like I think part of this calling, which I think

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Speaker 3: is because there's this kind of a cliche you'll hear

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Speaker 3: from a lot of people, like why doesn't he just

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Speaker 3: go down there every time, and it's like some of

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Speaker 3: this is he's seven to five, Like he's never going

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Speaker 3: to win leverage battles against people. That's really to me.

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Speaker 3: The story of Wemby becoming a reliable in the paint

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Speaker 3: score is more of a team coaching. How do we

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Speaker 3: get him down there, ball screens, rolling certain actions to

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Speaker 3: get him position. He is not going to just body

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Speaker 3: check dudes into the lane at any point in his career, right.

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Speaker 3: But the closest example of this is Anthony Davis. He

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Speaker 3: put on a bunch of muscle, it didn't help him

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Speaker 3: at all because his center of gravity is too high.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't matter like Anthony Davis would have been better

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Speaker 3: off leaning into being lean and fast, and that is

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Speaker 3: when Bee's advantage. I think, really the story of this

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Speaker 3: playoff ront has been just kind of a revealing an

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Speaker 3: example of what his career will look like in the future,

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Speaker 3: which is he's certainly going to have to have a

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Speaker 3: jump shot to be impactful, and getting him paint touches

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Speaker 3: is going to be a team and coaching issue revolving

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Speaker 3: how do we get him around bodies that are bigger

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Speaker 3: and more physical than him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're a little unfair on this. So in football,

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Speaker 2: a player often spends three years minimum in college with

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Speaker 2: very hard, singular coaching. It's often a Nick Saban, Lincoln Riley,

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Speaker 2: a Jim Harbaugh. It could be anybody could be Dabbos Sweeney,

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Speaker 2: any big college coach. There are some transfers, obviously, but

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Speaker 2: you may have two college coaches. But football coaching is hard.

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Speaker 2: Three years minimum college, often four. You often come in married.

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Speaker 2: I mean football culture is you know it's not going

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Speaker 2: to last very long. Football players tend to understand that,

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Speaker 2: like listen, I'm a bad block and it's over. They

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Speaker 2: tend to invest their money more quickly, start family sooner,

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Speaker 2: and get a little harder. Coaching. It's less aau bouncing

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Speaker 2: around to a tea. That's not it. It's not a

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Speaker 2: million games. It's always once a week high school, college, pro.

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Speaker 2: And so even in the NFL, with that ecosystem, we

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Speaker 2: always know, well, he's a rookie. We allow quarterbacks to

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Speaker 2: get to year three before we judge him. Well. In basketball,

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Speaker 2: it's often one year of college basketball. Now nil probably

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Speaker 2: makes it two or three. But a lot of these Euros,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're the academy playing against older guys. That's

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Speaker 2: an advantage. But we forget Lebron had to fail miserably

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Speaker 2: against Dallas in the finals before he added a layer

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Speaker 2: to his game. Magic Johnson at one point was called

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Speaker 2: tragic Johnson after a horrible finals. These are basketball cultures different.

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Speaker 2: When it's been suggested, I don't think it's a terrible

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Speaker 2: idea said, you know, you should call Kareem and develop

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a baby hook, not thirteen times

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Speaker 2: a game. Three just added dimension to it. And I think, guys,

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Speaker 2: this idea that Wemby at twenty two, Dylan Harper looks

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Speaker 2: really young all the time in the series. It's like, guys,

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Speaker 2: let's be fair to basketball culture, right. This is not

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Speaker 2: you know, like God, if you play baseball, Jason, you're

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Speaker 2: playing travel baseball from the time you're thirteen, you'd play

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Speaker 2: no other sports. Then you go to the minor leagues

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Speaker 2: for four years, you get to the bigs at twenty six,

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Speaker 2: you've played so much baseball. Some of this is the

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Speaker 2: basketball culture, even with our stars, creates holes until you're

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Speaker 2: about twenty six to twenty seven. Then you got six

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Speaker 2: year run of you know, go look at Jordan scored.

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Speaker 2: That was it. Then he developed into a up greater teammate.

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Speaker 2: I'm rambling, but I think we're sometimes a little unfair

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Speaker 2: because we look at these iconic prodigies and we're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this game's not complete. Of course, who's complete at twenty two?

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Speaker 3: I think you're hitting at something that's honestly one of

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Speaker 3: my biggest long held basketball beliefs. I've actually referred to

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Speaker 3: this over the years as scar tissue. When you're a

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Speaker 3: competitor and you lose, and you know it's because you

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Speaker 3: fucked up, because you did something like a specific play

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Speaker 3: here there, it eats at you. It literally eats at you.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a big believer that it requires a certain

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Speaker 3: number of failures in order to properly drive and refine

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Speaker 3: those mistakes out of your game. I mean, Colin like

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Speaker 3: Karl Anthony Towns is a perfect example of this. I

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Speaker 3: went back when I was doing my player rankings and

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Speaker 3: I rewatched the Pacers Knick series last year over the summer.

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Speaker 3: Kat was one of the biggest reasons they lost. He

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Speaker 3: was he kept doing this thing where like he would

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Speaker 3: crash the offensive glass off the top of the key,

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Speaker 3: which is a huge basketball known because it messes up

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Speaker 3: your transition defense balance, and the Pacers were just running

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Speaker 3: it down their throats for layups and dunks like Siakam

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Speaker 3: transition dunk, transition layup. Kat was so mistake prone for

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Speaker 3: so long that the talking point fairly was like, can

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Speaker 3: you win with this guy? Because mistakes get you beat?

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Speaker 3: I mean, hell, the Spurs are a perfect example. Two

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Speaker 3: of these games, Both of these games they could have

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Speaker 3: won if not for mistakes throwing the ball away. Remember

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Speaker 3: dearon Fox in Game one, just fouls McHale bridges at

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Speaker 3: the elbow in a two point game in crunch time. Like,

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Speaker 3: mistakes win or lose you basketball games. And it's so

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Speaker 3: interesting to see, Like we can talk about the Knicks

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Speaker 3: and there's all these different things that they're doing better,

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Speaker 3: and Mike Brown deserves all the credit, and there's crazy

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Speaker 3: numbers coming from how just differently they're playing. But a

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Speaker 3: big part of it is Cat is just not making

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Speaker 3: anywhere near as many mistakes as he used to make

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Speaker 3: because he lost, like the Knicks lost year after year

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Speaker 3: to build to this moment. You don't think these guys

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Speaker 3: have an extra amount of value on every possession. You

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Speaker 3: don't think they still are haunted by Tyrese Halliburton beating

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Speaker 3: them in Game one in Madison Square Guarden last year

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Speaker 3: when they blew that lead. Like, the pain of loss

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Speaker 3: builds scar tissue and builds better basketball players. And it

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Speaker 3: would have been highly unusual for a team this young

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Speaker 3: like San Antonio to win before going through that kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff. It would have been a testament to how

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Speaker 3: incredibly talented they are. But you know, for all to

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Speaker 3: talk about the Spurs like are they too young, this

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Speaker 3: is what a young team losing looks like. Silly mistakes

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Speaker 3: at the end of a game. Bad foul here, bad

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Speaker 3: turnover there. They had two open floor turnovers down the

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Speaker 3: stretch where they just threw the ball away and gave

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Speaker 3: up buckets going the other way. Yeah, the Spurs have

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Speaker 3: lost these two games in large part there's been other dynamics,

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Speaker 3: but they could have won if they would have just

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Speaker 3: not made mistakes. And so they're early in that phase

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Speaker 3: and they still have a lot of that kind of

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Speaker 3: development to go through.

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Speaker 2: Look at our champions that Toronto Blue Jays got to

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Speaker 2: a Game seven against the Dodgers. Sam Darnold's career right

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Speaker 2: labeled the bust. Jalen Brunson, You know, I always said

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Speaker 2: very good, not a star. I'm apparently wrong. I called

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Speaker 2: the Knicks a good team, not a very good team.

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Speaker 2: Is that I think one of the things and I

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Speaker 2: think this is very healthy for sports. Is that maturity.

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Speaker 2: Like the thing about the Knicks that really jumps out

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Speaker 2: to me. Three Villanova guys, a coach that's willing to listen.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I remember years ago, remember when Buster Douglas meet Mike Tyson.

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Speaker 2: It was the best fight easily. He was a forty

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Speaker 2: to one underdog. His mother had passed away, and it

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Speaker 2: really sort of he was so inspired for that fight.

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Speaker 2: Karl Anthony Town's mother passes away. He has been so

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Speaker 2: inspired and so focused. Like you think to yourself, wow,

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Speaker 2: does that matter?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 2: I mean I can speak for myself. I was very

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Speaker 2: close to my mother, and when my mother died, I

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Speaker 2: heard her voice. I mean I can remember being in

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Speaker 2: the car and like I was talking to my mom

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Speaker 2: because I'd heard that voice. I was closer to mom

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Speaker 2: than Dad. And they're like things happen in sports. The

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Speaker 2: Miracle on Ice, I mean I could watch that once

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Speaker 2: a week. We had no business, forget beating competing with

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Speaker 2: the Russians. What makes sports great is teamwork, continuity, maturity.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we devalue it because we live in a world

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Speaker 2: of social media where people are not only stars, they

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Speaker 2: have five they have fifty eight million IG followers. Stars

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Speaker 2: have never been richer and bigger and more close closely

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Speaker 2: associated with movie stars, and we really forget it's a

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Speaker 2: lot of redemption projects, inspired athletes, smart guys, hard workers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I find the nixt incredibly easy to root for.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you got the Karl Anthony town story, you know,

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Speaker 2: the brunts and story. I mean, outside of his dad

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Speaker 2: and Jalen, I mean, god, he's like the best fourth quarter.

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Speaker 2: I said the other day, you can compare him to Luca,

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Speaker 2: but unlike Luca, he never misses starts like the kid's incredible.

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Speaker 2: So I think I think this is such a great

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Speaker 2: story for basketball that the Knicks are not star driven.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think Brunson has a chance to be

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Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer. Karl Anthony Towns if he wins

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Speaker 2: MVP will make the Hall of Fame. I mean, Tony

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Speaker 2: Kukokes did.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like I've watched this and it may

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Speaker 2: be a sweep, but it just speaks well of basketball

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Speaker 2: and what really truly matters. The Spurs are all built,

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Speaker 2: draft and developed. The Knicks are all we traded for

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Speaker 2: a bunch of guys. This could be a complete tire

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Speaker 2: fire chemistry wise. They trade trade, I mean, they brought

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Speaker 2: in guys from everywhere, and yet it's like the closest

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Speaker 2: team emotionally. It's just speaks so well of the maturity

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Speaker 2: of the team, the draft and developed team. I understand

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Speaker 2: being close generationally. This team comes from like eight different

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Speaker 2: freeway exits. I really watching the next play, I think

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Speaker 2: it's fun basketball.

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Speaker 3: No, it absolutely is. Did you happen to see that

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Speaker 3: quote from Mike Brown after the game when he was

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Speaker 3: talking specifically about how fun this group has been, And

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Speaker 3: one of the things he said is he's like he

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Speaker 3: was like, the NBA is hard, and it's not always

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Speaker 3: like this. When he said that, I thought to myself,

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Speaker 3: I was like, that is a guy who's like almost

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Speaker 3: shuddering internally at all of the bad locker rooms he's

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Speaker 3: been in, and like the environments where he was trying

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Speaker 3: to bring the raw raw and it just wasn't going anywhere,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, And he happens to be

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Speaker 3: with this group that's catching that fire, and I mean

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Speaker 3: I talked to Knicks fans. It wasn't even always perfect

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Speaker 3: this season, let alone in previous stops. And it kind

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Speaker 3: of reminds me of that that opening part of Bill

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Speaker 3: Simmons's basketball book when he talks about the secret, and

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Speaker 3: it's really what is the magic of sports, which is

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Speaker 3: this is so much more than just the sum of

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Speaker 3: your parts. This is so much more than what you

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Speaker 3: can just put on a spreadsheet. Sometimes a group of

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Speaker 3: guys can just catch magic and reach a level where

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Speaker 3: they are playing above and beyond what even they're individually

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Speaker 3: capable of and what they're capable of as a group.

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Speaker 3: And we've seen, i'd argue, as the game has changed,

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Speaker 3: like everyone's scoring numbers are down, Like if you look

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Speaker 3: at star scoring in this postseason, it's way down compared

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Speaker 3: to previous playoff runs, Like the days of a dude

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Speaker 3: like Lebron having eight forty point games. That just doesn't

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Speaker 3: happen anymore in a playoff runt because there's so many

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Speaker 3: double teams and so many aggressive coverages thrown. So it's

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Speaker 3: more important than ever to have that magic alchemy of

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Speaker 3: a group playing together. I think the Pacers last year

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Speaker 3: are another example of this and kind of just catching

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Speaker 3: that fire. Here's another stat just to kind of demonstrate

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Speaker 3: this idea. So I think a spot up situation is

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Speaker 3: just when someone throws a pass to guys waiting on

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Speaker 3: the perimeter ready to score, so either catch and shoot,

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Speaker 3: catch and drive. They in the loss to Indiana averaged

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Speaker 3: nineteen of those per game nineteen possessions. This year, so far,

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Speaker 3: they're averaging thirty three, almost double. That's how often they're

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Speaker 3: just popping the ball around there. You're seeing these beautiful

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Speaker 3: sequences where there's three four drives on the same possession

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Speaker 3: and the Spurs are running around like crazy and it's

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Speaker 3: just yet another wide open shot for somebody at the

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Speaker 3: tail end of the sequence. Like there is very much

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Speaker 3: something said. I used the word Cinderella on my show

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Speaker 3: last week, and I was like, that's not the right word.

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Speaker 3: It's not a Cinderella run. But there's something magical about it.

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Speaker 3: There's something magical about what the Knicks are doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it is. You know, you have these moments

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Speaker 2: in life, like I remember when my daughter was born,

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Speaker 2: the oldest of my children, and I can remember being

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Speaker 2: in the hospital and Tualla at in Oregon and I

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Speaker 2: was not I couldn't feel like my limbs like I

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Speaker 2: was floating, like, oh my god, I created this, I

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Speaker 2: helped create this baby. And I just remember eyes wide open.

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Speaker 2: She was just the cutest little baby. And I remember

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Speaker 2: having this moment where I was just like I got

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Speaker 2: to sit down, like I am, I am this is

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Speaker 2: way I'm out of my element here emotionally. And I

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Speaker 2: haven't had a lot of these, but I've had four

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Speaker 2: or five or six times in my life where I'm

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Speaker 2: so happy or so sad that it's like an out

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Speaker 2: of body experience. And sports doesn't quite have that. But

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Speaker 2: there is something to be said about you just love

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Speaker 2: your teammates. You just it's I mean, I've played I

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Speaker 2: remember in college I had just the cool I can

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Speaker 2: name every guy I played on this intermural football team,

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Speaker 2: and they were just happened to be all great guys.

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Speaker 2: There were no douchebags. It was like twelve great guys

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Speaker 2: and we weren't the most talented team, but we just

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Speaker 2: thought people and it was just I can remember being

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Speaker 2: in it and thinking, this is the closest I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get to like really like like hot, you know, college,

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Speaker 2: because everybody was a pretty good athlete. I was probably

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Speaker 2: the worst athlete of the team, but there were some

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Speaker 2: really good athletes. And I can just remember thinking, is

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Speaker 2: this is It's it's better than school, it's better than

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Speaker 2: who I'm dating. It's just the best. And I think

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Speaker 2: it's really hard when you become rich and professional, you

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Speaker 2: have kids, you have a life. And this is where

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Speaker 2: Kat gets a lot of credit. He was always Jason.

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Speaker 2: He was always known as kind of a flaky player

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Speaker 2: with immense talent you couldn't depend on. He has literally

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Speaker 2: been the opposite. He has literally been the sturdiest, most dependable,

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Speaker 2: greatest teammate. And that's not a criticism. I mean his

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Speaker 2: rep was dumbfouls, streaky, score, kind of goofy. Not the opposite.

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Speaker 2: And whatever inspired him, you could just There was a

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Speaker 2: moment in Game two in the first half where the

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Speaker 2: Spurs were on a run and I'm watching the Knicks

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Speaker 2: just take it, just take body blows, and then I

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Speaker 2: look up and they're like down one, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this series is over. You can't break this team. You can't.

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Speaker 2: They're just their resolve is it jumps through the television.

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Speaker 2: They just take your best shots. You're not knocking us

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Speaker 2: to the canvas. We're not going down. And I think

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Speaker 2: it there's a spirit about it that you can be

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Speaker 2: a casual. It's so obvious watching the series. I think

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Speaker 2: the series is over. San Antonio could win Game three,

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Speaker 2: I would not feel differently. This wall of physicality, this intensity,

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Speaker 2: it's it's it is very Denver. It's just nobody's beating them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I I I'm always hesitant to completely write off

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Speaker 3: a team like the Spurs because they're so young, Like

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Speaker 3: this is not like the Calves where you know they're

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Speaker 3: in game four and you know, all those dudes are

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Speaker 3: just thinking about their time share that they have, or

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Speaker 3: their their their airbnb that they got down in Cabo

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Speaker 3: and right and they're they're in their thirties, they're looking

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Speaker 3: forward to the cocktail on the beach. I'm like all

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Speaker 3: these kids in San Antonio, like they'll probably be either

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Speaker 3: playing video games or playing basketball the day after the finals,

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Speaker 3: like they're these kids. There's there's those those Spurs are

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Speaker 3: going to be playing one hundred miles an hour until

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Speaker 3: the very second that you beat them completely like that.

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Speaker 3: So there's a certain like lack of quit that you'll

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Speaker 3: have there. There was a little bit of an adjustment

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Speaker 3: down the stretch of that game. They stopped sending the

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Speaker 3: kitchen the game, I mean the kind they stop doubling

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Speaker 3: brunts and so much, which kind of baited bruntson into

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Speaker 3: some bad shots. Down the stretch. They got it, got

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Speaker 3: out in transition a lot, and really scored in the

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Speaker 3: open floor. Wenby started to get some things figured out

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Speaker 3: in that second half. You have twenty two points in

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Speaker 3: the second half, so like there the Spurs are not

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Speaker 3: going to go down without a fight. It's really, to

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Speaker 3: me just a combination of you have to win four

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Speaker 3: out of five now with three of those in that

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Speaker 3: hillacious Madison Square Garden crowd, which is going to be

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Speaker 3: so difficult to win in front of, and then everything

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Speaker 3: about what makes the Knicks special because they just are

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Speaker 3: so resilient and there's nothing about them that screams quit

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Speaker 3: or like let's say the Spurs do win two in

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Speaker 3: a row and you have a you have a game

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Speaker 3: six back in MSG, like they're just not going to quit.

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Speaker 3: Like the Knicks are going to be ready for that.

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Speaker 3: They're going to be prepared mentally for that environment. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I do think that that's what makes this

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Speaker 3: different than any other social experience on Earth. Like I

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Speaker 3: play a lot of basketball post college. I still to

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Speaker 3: this day probably played too much, considering how much my

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Speaker 3: body hurts all the time. But like when I was

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Speaker 3: coaching high school hoops in Tucson, which I did for

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Speaker 3: four years before I moved to Denver, it was by

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Speaker 3: far the most fun I had after playing, because when

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Speaker 3: you're actually in a locker room and you're actually with

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Speaker 3: the same dudes every day, and you're actually trying to

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Speaker 3: pursue some goal that's bigger than the individual, that's bigger

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Speaker 3: than just even that week. It's a six month goal.

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Speaker 3: For some of these guys, it's a multi year role

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Speaker 3: and you're working with them through many years of their development.

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Speaker 3: Like I just when I saw that quote from Mike Brown,

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Speaker 3: I was like that dude's experiencing like the absolute peak

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Speaker 3: of the of the sports experience, being with a special

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Speaker 3: group of guys that is experiencing that like magical alchemy

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Speaker 3: when they all come together like that.

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Speaker 2: All right, Today's show is brought to you by our

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415
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416
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Speaker 2: partner and we got into a relationship with hard Rock

449
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: in the volume. I said I want another and they

450
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 2: said the same thing. Let's do a college another college

451
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 2: football podcast, but it would be cool if it was

452
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 2: different than the ones we have, And so Jarvis Landry

453
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: and Leonard Fournett both went to LSU they never overlapped.

454
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: One was the star running back, one the star receiver,

455
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: and we said, let's let's put these guys together and

456
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: let's do a test. Well, we listened for about five minutes,

457
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: and we knew we had a hit, and so I thought,

458
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: I'm gonna if you haven't heard them, I'm going to

459
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 2: introduce you for the next thirty thirty five minutes when

460
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: you go to your NFL experience. I always thought that

461
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: the Tampa thing was fascinating because when Brady went to Tampa,

462
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 2: we knew they needed a right tackle. They drafted one,

463
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: Tristan Wurse, but the defense was set. They had good

464
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 2: tight ends, excellent wide receivers, they needed a quarterback Tommy,

465
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: and they needed a right tackle. And then they started

466
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: adding like Gronk kind of his security blanket. I mean,

467
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: tom just but he was out of his prime. But

468
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: it didn't matter. And then they brought you in. And

469
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: my take was, I didn't know you, but I'm like, well,

470
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: Brady wouldn't okay that. Arians wouldn't okay that unless he's

471
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: like he's a dog, And like, when you got the call,

472
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 2: take me back to the Buccaneers and you get the

473
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: call and they're kind of because even when they were

474
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: like five hundred with Jamos, everybody in the league knew,

475
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 2: I mean Tom chose them. Everybody knew they were like, dude,

476
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: they're underachieving. They got a lot of dudes when you

477
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: got the call to go join Brady tell me about that.

478
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: So man, as you know, I got cut by Jacksonville

479
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: right two weeks later, I get calls from at the time,

480
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: I was twenty six, twenty five, twenty six, still on

481
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: my prime, you know, and that's the best year is

482
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: to get us young guys, you know, when we still

483
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: can get you know, you're milking a cow and you

484
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: get all that stuff.

485
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: Out of them, especially running those Yeah.

486
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, and I can. I can almost The

487
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: first person to reach out to him was Devin White,

488
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: right uh. I kind of mentored Devin White at.

489
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: L s U.

490
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: He was he was younger than me, and I always

491
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: knew Devin was going to be who he was going

492
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: to be because he worked hard. He's always smart. You know,

493
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: he's a good guy. Strong man listen, strong country guy.

494
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

495
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: You pick up hate for a living.

496
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: So it's like I always seen that in him. But

497
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: I think, for me, what kind of what kind of

498
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: put it on? Put the cherry on the top of

499
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: when Tom reached out to him, because me and Tom

500
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't under armor together, so we always had a relationship, right,

501
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: And I called, I'm like, I'm looking at their running

502
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: back room. You know, at the time, I didn't know

503
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: who Ronald Jones was, so I come from Jacksonville being

504
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: a bell kyle, you know, and uh, I think when

505
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: he asked me to come over, He's like, man, you

506
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: could be a part of something special. I just felt

507
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: it in my I felt it in my heart, like

508
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna give it a chance.

509
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: But in the beginning it didn't go as I thought

510
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: it would go. I thought I was gonna come in

511
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: take over number one back right. I had to go

512
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: to my adversity to become who who I became was

513
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: playoff Lenny, super Bowl Lenny and all those things. But

514
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: it took a while for me to get over that

515
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: hump for being cut.

516
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: Well. Also think about it, Leonard is that it was

517
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: a little bit of an all star offense. Brady. Brady

518
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: views the world differently than arians. Arians wants to do it.

519
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: He's like Al Davis, like he wants to go over

520
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: the top old Raider football. Tom's very much about fallout,

521
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 2: quick yards after cats. That's that's his doctrine. So that

522
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: offense you were part of was a lot. I mean, God,

523
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: you guys were seven and five through week twelve and

524
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: you got a perfect buy. But I would argue you

525
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: guys were a bit of a mess until week twenty one.

526
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: What happened in the bye week because you didn't lose

527
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: after that? What and now you got Atlanta a couple

528
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: of times, I remember, so they got you healthy. But

529
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: what happened in that bye week to fix the offense?

530
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: Because it was it was hot and cold to twelve

531
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: games in Tom's first year.

532
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, we had a we had an all players meeting, right,

533
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: and you know it's it's it's different when you come

534
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: from being the vocal points of certain offenses, like I

535
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: was right and Antonio Brown was the vocal point of

536
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: his offense in the Stillers, right, and we kind of

537
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: had to have that that coming to coming to guard meeting, like,

538
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: you know, we know what we can do, our egos.

539
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: You know, there's only one ball, right, Everybody's not gonna

540
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: be able to touch the ball. So understanding is now for

541
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: us to win our egos, our attitudes and us not

542
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: not not being a part of the game plan some

543
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: games and not being like, you know, we want to score,

544
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: we want to play. We have to cut it out,

545
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: right because after that, I mean you you had games

546
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: where our number one wide receiver Michael Evans got the

547
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: ball two times three times a game and did not complain.

548
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: So I'm like, damn, if I'm if I'm if I'm

549
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: complaining and he's not saying nothing. All right, Well, maybe

550
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: maybe I need to dial back a little bit and

551
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: understand this is just bigger.

552
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 5: This is way bigger than me.

553
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's bigger than what I what I want to

554
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: commis as a player. Right, we have something to do

555
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: that probably nobody has ever done besides Grunk and Brady

556
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,239
Speaker 1: and NBA has won a Super Bowl. And that's what

557
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: we did. We say, you know, we stuck our hed downs.

558
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: We say, you know, let's do it and be stuck

559
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: with it.

560
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: Jarvis, that was obviously the best team Leonard was ever on. Jarvis,

561
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 2: give me the best, and a lot of times the

562
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: best team isn't the best. Experience you know, you you

563
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: can get on a team that's good and you're not

564
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: and you just don't like the guys. I mean, you

565
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: were a five time Pro Bowlers, you were obviously a

566
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: great player, you were a leader, But what was your

567
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: best year in terms of experience. It doesn't have to

568
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: be the most wins, a cohesive unit, Jarvis that you

569
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: just loved pro football like you loved it in high school.

570
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think I wish I had got

571
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 4: that call from Brady like Leonard did.

572
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 5: But but but.

573
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: I think the best team that we played on was

574
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 4: I have to say, say the Cleveland team that we

575
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 4: went to the playoffs with Baker in nineteen Yeah with Baker,

576
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah right, And I think that was one of the

577
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 4: best teams. Obviously, it was a weird year because it

578
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 4: was a little bit of COVID and things like that

579
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: happening going on around around the world. Right in the

580
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 4: NFL's figured some things out, But you know, I think

581
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 4: at that point in time, it really became strictly about

582
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 4: football for some reason, doing COVID like it was literally

583
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 4: home in football home.

584
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 5: There was no other distractions. There was nothing else that

585
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 5: can come in between.

586
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: Cleveland's boring enough at COVID.

587
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 4: You know, listen, Cleveland is underrated. People think Cleveland is boring.

588
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 4: Cleveland is very underrated. But but that team, that team,

589
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 4: we just had a lot of guys played well at

590
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 4: the right time.

591
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: You know.

592
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: We lost Odell that year to ACL We had a

593
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: couple other guys get injured, and we had younger guys

594
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: step up.

595
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: Right.

596
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 5: We had Rashaan Higgins who stepped up right.

597
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 4: And if you want to say, the most most arguable

598
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: call in the last five or six years was when

599
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 4: he dove in for a touchdown in Kansas City.

600
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 5: The helmet to helmet car guy is being a.

601
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: Touch You out played the Chiefs in that game. But

602
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: I it's no.

603
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: Question, Colin, I am still pissed at Chad Haney. Chad

604
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 4: Heney came into the game. Chad Henney came into the

605
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: game after not playing. I don't know, he probably didn't

606
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 4: play for thirty seven weeks for the last two years,

607
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: and he walked into the game. And it's a beautiful

608
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 4: thing about sports, and it's a beautiful thing about you know,

609
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 4: guys being ready when their number is called, right, But

610
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 4: I would just wish it was in that day.

611
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wish he had that little completion off

612
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: to the right and that sealed.

613
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 4: That sealed it, and to play before that it was third,

614
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 4: I want to say it was third and fourteen, and

615
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 4: he ran for thirteen. And then you know, oh Andy Reid,

616
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: who always has a has one in his pocket, right

617
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 4: he calls a fourth down beater versus man, the man

618
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: getting a ball to Tyreek Hill as fast as possible,

619
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 4: and you know they convert and you know it's over.

620
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 4: But that was one of the best teams that I

621
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: was that I played on, and I was very excited

622
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 4: the next year, even though it didn't work out. Things

623
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 4: didn't work out for us in Cleveland, But the next

624
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 4: year I was excited because we'll be getting our pieces

625
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 4: back and things like that. I was hopeful that we

626
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 4: can carry on the you know what we what we

627
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 4: put on the field last year, put on a tape

628
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 4: last year.

629
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 5: You know, but it didn't work out.

630
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: You know it's people think I don't like Baker Mayfield.

631
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: It is not true.

632
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: Well, I've been I've been wanting to talk to you

633
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 4: for a long time about this, all.

634
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: Right, So you started because I said before I thought

635
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: Cleveland was a bad spot for him to land out

636
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: of college. I preferred Donald. I thought Darnald was a bigger,

637
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: stronger quarterback and a little bit more coachable. I thought

638
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: Baker throws a better football. But I thought Cleveland's dysfunction,

639
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: Cleveland's angry media, the beaten down fan base, and Baker

640
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: was really emotional. You know, he would fight with the media.

641
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: I thought, this is not good. This is and eventually

642
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: it wasn't. Stefanskin Berry and I think both those guys

643
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: are sharp. They moved on, but I never hated him.

644
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: I always said this with Baker. I said, he's absolutely

645
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: one of the twenty best quarterbacks on the earth right now.

646
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: I wouldn't make him my guy at this point. Now.

647
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: I have also defended him in Tampa. I'm like, guys,

648
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: sign him, re sign him. Tampa is perfect. If you

649
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: pay Baker forty million, it's like Darnold. I don't want

650
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: to pay him sixty. You pay Baker forty. Malik Willis

651
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: at twenty two is a steal. I think Malik's super talented.

652
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: But my take on Baker was he just wasn't quite

653
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: ready for the Cleveland experience. Hell did he gone to

654
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: the Rams and McVeigh. You know who knows, But you

655
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: tell me when I was critical of Baker and he

656
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: would fire back. I mean you were in the locker room.

657
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: Did he ever come up to you and go, hey,

658
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 2: don't listen to that idiot on Fox?

659
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 5: Well?

660
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I feel like I had to say that

661
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 4: a few times, right, But I think what was you know,

662
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: when you were as good as Baker is, right, especially

663
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: coming out of college. You know, he had all of

664
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 4: the intangibles rights, not maybe not physically, but as far

665
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: as throwing the ball and.

666
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 5: Being a winner, right and and in most.

667
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 4: Cases that's what you get valued at, right and in Cleveland,

668
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 4: and to his defense, Cleveland have been a bad team

669
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 4: for a long time, bad so so that's how they

670
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 4: were able to get guys like myself, guys like da

671
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 4: Marius Randall, I think Carlos Hide at the same time.

672
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 4: We all came in together, right, And when you're that bad,

673
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 4: you get the first round draft pick and you take

674
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 4: the best player on the board. And at the time,

675
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: Cleveland felt like that was Baker, and I think they

676
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: were right about it, and we're seeing that they were

677
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 4: right about it. Obviously it didn't work out there, but

678
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 4: it should have worked out there. Baker is a hell

679
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 4: of a competitor. He's a great team right. I do

680
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 4: think if you if you think about if I think

681
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 4: about his trajectory, right, I do think that at a

682
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: time of I wouldn't say him being so young, but

683
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 4: I will say the maturity, the maturity level that he

684
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 4: is at now, it's not something that he had in Cleveland.

685
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 4: It's not something that that's not something that any player

686
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 4: has when they're that young, right, and acts to take

687
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 4: a bad organization, a bad team, right.

688
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna.

689
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 4: I love them, uh uh d and Jimmy Haslam, but

690
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 4: but but to take a pro organization that has been

691
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 4: through the mud and do what.

692
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 5: No one could do.

693
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 4: They had They had thirty seven quarterbacks in five years, right,

694
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 4: and more credit to John Dorsey for taking a taking

695
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 4: a gamble and bringing guys in to help a young quarterback.

696
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 4: And I thought that we had a good run. We

697
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 4: should have had a longer run, but I thought that

698
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 4: we had a good run. And as far as media

699
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 4: and and and you and and Baker, I just never

700
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 4: understood it, right, I just never understood that.

701
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 5: You know, he was he was very young, and.

702
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 4: I just felt like maybe he didn't know how to

703
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 4: handle the pressure. But also it was one of those

704
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: things where he was put in a situation and acts

705
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 4: to perform at a high level in which you would

706
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 4: call yourself a dysfunctional place. Yeah, so for him to

707
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 4: go there and succeed would be extremely tough, right, right,

708
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 4: And and for anyone to be critical, I will say

709
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 4: he didn't listen to There was a lot of people talking, right, Oh,

710
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 4: I know, there was only a certain few that broke through.

711
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 4: There was only a certain few that he really heard, right,

712
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 4: And and and it happens to all of us. It

713
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 4: happens to all of us. I'm sure Lena could attested

714
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 4: this too. You know, in sports, you know there's certain

715
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 4: you know, people that report sports, and they are reported

716
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 4: at a high level, and they reported very well, and

717
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 4: they speak their truth and there and sometimes their their

718
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 4: truth is is something that makes it to the player,

719
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 4: It makes it to the sure and yeah, and and

720
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 4: those are things that we think about on the field.

721
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: Those are things that we're trying to address.

722
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: Guys. I've had I've been doing this thirty five years.

723
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: I've had media critics attack me. Most of them I

724
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: don't care. But there have been moments where a critic

725
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: is said something or a fan has said something, and

726
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: I've thought, oh, they're making a good point. That's actually

727
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: a really really good point. Like I do think criticism

728
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: as long as you don't get a wash in it,

729
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: you don't get it's not an avalanche, you don't bathe

730
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 2: in it. But I've had people I've had I've had

731
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: years and years ago when I used to read emails

732
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: from fans at least once a month, somebody would send

733
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: one and you'd be like, that's a really good point.

734
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: You know, I was getting repetitious or using a term

735
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 2: or a saying, and I'd be like, that's a great point.

736
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: So you know, And and I always said this with

737
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: Baker Mayfield is everybody matures at a different level, and

738
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: it's it Baker, he just but he just wasn't like

739
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: Fernando Mendoza is twenty two going on forty five years old.

740
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 2: I mean, he's like mister Rogers. Like by the way,

741
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: Mayfield though,