1 00:00:21,244 --> 00:00:24,604 Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 2 00:00:24,605 --> 00:00:27,565 Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 3 00:00:27,685 --> 00:00:31,365 Speaker 1: just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 4 00:00:31,725 --> 00:00:34,725 Speaker 1: with no blackout dates or restrictions. Sign up now on 5 00:00:34,765 --> 00:00:36,964 Speaker 1: the Regal app or at the link in our description 6 00:00:37,165 --> 00:00:41,004 Speaker 1: and use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen 7 00:00:41,045 --> 00:00:41,685 Speaker 1: percent off. 8 00:00:42,485 --> 00:00:45,405 Speaker 2: Josh, it's time to drop something from the film Spotting 9 00:00:45,525 --> 00:00:50,404 Speaker 2: archive into the main feed, And with the Sundance Film 10 00:00:50,445 --> 00:00:55,725 Speaker 2: Festival Award winners having just been announced, we thought we 11 00:00:55,765 --> 00:00:59,045 Speaker 2: would pick one of those award winners, actually a double 12 00:00:59,164 --> 00:01:04,205 Speaker 2: award winner from our review history, and share that with 13 00:01:04,605 --> 00:01:09,245 Speaker 2: our audience. Twelve years ago, Damien Cizelle's Whiplash won the 14 00:01:09,245 --> 00:01:13,365 Speaker 2: Fest Grand Jury Prize and it won the Audience Award. 15 00:01:13,444 --> 00:01:17,365 Speaker 2: Of course, it went on to much more acclaim later 16 00:01:17,444 --> 00:01:18,685 Speaker 2: that year as well. 17 00:01:18,965 --> 00:01:22,444 Speaker 1: Twelve years it actually this case where it actually seems longer. 18 00:01:22,485 --> 00:01:25,964 Speaker 1: I mean, Chiselle has done a lot of stuff since Whiplash, 19 00:01:26,045 --> 00:01:29,884 Speaker 1: but yeah, what a breakout for him, a breakout for 20 00:01:29,964 --> 00:01:33,365 Speaker 1: me on letterbox Adam, I think this is one of 21 00:01:33,444 --> 00:01:37,884 Speaker 1: the most liked reviews I've posted on Letterbox Stuff of 22 00:01:37,925 --> 00:01:40,965 Speaker 1: Whiplash and you know that you know the insight, the 23 00:01:40,964 --> 00:01:43,565 Speaker 1: insight I gave that got that response. See, I love it. 24 00:01:43,884 --> 00:01:45,565 Speaker 2: That's that's why I asked. 25 00:01:46,125 --> 00:01:50,044 Speaker 1: This was my review. Good job. See it's always. 26 00:01:49,725 --> 00:01:53,725 Speaker 2: The pithy, it's all the two words when it's you. 27 00:01:54,045 --> 00:01:57,285 Speaker 2: But when you actually you actually you spend time crafting 28 00:01:57,365 --> 00:01:59,684 Speaker 2: real criticism and you get three likes. 29 00:02:00,005 --> 00:02:01,525 Speaker 1: Yeah, just scroll right on by. 30 00:02:03,325 --> 00:02:06,085 Speaker 2: Good Job's funny, though, Josh, I say good job to. 31 00:02:06,085 --> 00:02:07,925 Speaker 1: You, thank you, thank you, sir. 32 00:02:08,245 --> 00:02:08,644 Speaker 2: All right. 33 00:02:08,845 --> 00:02:12,565 Speaker 1: We reviewed the film when it came to theaters that October. 34 00:02:12,885 --> 00:02:13,925 Speaker 1: Here's that conversation. 35 00:02:14,285 --> 00:02:17,204 Speaker 2: The keys to just relax, don't worry about the numbers, 36 00:02:17,325 --> 00:02:19,845 Speaker 2: don't worry about what the other guys are thinking. You're 37 00:02:19,885 --> 00:02:25,205 Speaker 2: here for a reason. A fun five six And I. 38 00:02:25,165 --> 00:02:27,405 Speaker 1: Don't want to be great and you're not. 39 00:02:29,805 --> 00:02:34,045 Speaker 2: You got Buddy rich hair a little trouble there, you're rushing. 40 00:02:34,204 --> 00:02:35,885 Speaker 2: Here we go five six. 41 00:02:35,685 --> 00:02:38,885 Speaker 1: And on a recent show Adam, we played a clip 42 00:02:38,924 --> 00:02:43,204 Speaker 1: from Whiplash in which JK. Simmons demanding music instructor Barrts 43 00:02:43,245 --> 00:02:46,285 Speaker 1: Miles Teller's aspiring jazz drummer, and I made a joke 44 00:02:46,325 --> 00:02:49,045 Speaker 1: that he sounded like our Lee Ermei's drill instructor in 45 00:02:49,125 --> 00:02:51,605 Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket. I hadn't seen the film yet, but 46 00:02:51,644 --> 00:02:54,325 Speaker 1: it turns out I was onto something in both Full 47 00:02:54,365 --> 00:02:57,805 Speaker 1: Metal Jacket and Whiplash. The harsh demands of a superior 48 00:02:58,204 --> 00:03:01,165 Speaker 1: play a part in an instance of suicide, and this 49 00:03:01,245 --> 00:03:03,204 Speaker 1: is a small detail in the Whiplash, So don't worry 50 00:03:03,204 --> 00:03:06,205 Speaker 1: that I've just given the entire picture away. All that 51 00:03:06,365 --> 00:03:08,565 Speaker 1: is to say, though, that Whiplash, which is written and 52 00:03:08,605 --> 00:03:12,525 Speaker 1: directed by Damian Chizzell, is a pretty dark film. In 53 00:03:12,565 --> 00:03:14,965 Speaker 1: his quest to become one of the great jazz drummers 54 00:03:15,005 --> 00:03:20,165 Speaker 1: of all time, Teller's Andrew alienates family, snuffs out abursioning romance, 55 00:03:20,445 --> 00:03:23,925 Speaker 1: and spill a whole lot of blood. I didn't realize 56 00:03:23,965 --> 00:03:27,445 Speaker 1: that drumming could involve this much blood. Actually. Meanwhile, JK. 57 00:03:27,484 --> 00:03:31,005 Speaker 1: Simmons Fletcher, an abusively intense teacher at the elite music 58 00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:34,405 Speaker 1: school Andrew attends, is on hand to push Andrew even 59 00:03:34,484 --> 00:03:37,845 Speaker 1: further than that. Their goal is nothing short of perfection, 60 00:03:38,405 --> 00:03:41,565 Speaker 1: and considering the potential, the value, and the cost of perfection, 61 00:03:41,685 --> 00:03:44,925 Speaker 1: is largely what Whiplash is all about. One thing I've 62 00:03:45,005 --> 00:03:47,565 Speaker 1: learned about you, Adam since joining the show is that 63 00:03:47,685 --> 00:03:51,045 Speaker 1: you have a perfectionist streak. Would you say that's fair? 64 00:03:51,125 --> 00:03:54,365 Speaker 1: That's fair, And to be fair, I can relate a 65 00:03:54,365 --> 00:03:56,845 Speaker 1: bit of the pot calling the kettle black here. Still, 66 00:03:56,885 --> 00:03:59,045 Speaker 1: I wonder what it was like for you to watch 67 00:03:59,125 --> 00:04:03,045 Speaker 1: this striving for musical perfection. Did you find Whiplash affirming 68 00:04:03,125 --> 00:04:06,725 Speaker 1: of such tendencies or cautionary about them? Perhaps it was 69 00:04:06,765 --> 00:04:09,965 Speaker 1: something in between. And is the movie itself, which is 70 00:04:10,005 --> 00:04:13,765 Speaker 1: a bold incorporation of the musical aesthetic in visual form, 71 00:04:14,245 --> 00:04:17,805 Speaker 1: anywhere close to artistic perfection great stuff? 72 00:04:17,845 --> 00:04:21,645 Speaker 2: Whether a piece of art can ever be perfect, of course, 73 00:04:21,725 --> 00:04:23,805 Speaker 2: is a very loaded subject, but it is one I'd 74 00:04:23,805 --> 00:04:26,205 Speaker 2: maybe like to return to if we have time, because 75 00:04:26,205 --> 00:04:30,125 Speaker 2: I do think it's interesting to consider in relation to jazz, 76 00:04:30,365 --> 00:04:33,045 Speaker 2: specifically in the broader sense. I know what you're really 77 00:04:33,045 --> 00:04:35,885 Speaker 2: getting at is did I like this movie? Do I 78 00:04:35,885 --> 00:04:38,485 Speaker 2: think it's a good movie? And yes, I did really 79 00:04:38,565 --> 00:04:40,285 Speaker 2: like this movie. I think it's a very good film. 80 00:04:40,645 --> 00:04:43,765 Speaker 2: And the first part of your prompt nails one of 81 00:04:43,805 --> 00:04:47,685 Speaker 2: the aspects of Whiplash I appreciate the most. It absolutely 82 00:04:48,325 --> 00:04:52,085 Speaker 2: is both affirming of such striving and cautionary about it, 83 00:04:52,205 --> 00:04:54,965 Speaker 2: which is really the only honest position to take. I 84 00:04:55,005 --> 00:04:57,404 Speaker 2: think it would have been so easy for Chizell to 85 00:04:57,485 --> 00:05:03,005 Speaker 2: show the personal cost of Andrew's ambition physically, psychologically, socially, 86 00:05:03,525 --> 00:05:05,525 Speaker 2: and have him renounce that by the end of the 87 00:05:05,525 --> 00:05:08,964 Speaker 2: film and be in a much healthier place, maybe be 88 00:05:09,045 --> 00:05:11,525 Speaker 2: the kid again who could actually play the drums just 89 00:05:11,565 --> 00:05:15,724 Speaker 2: for fun. But Chizelle maybe because this is a personal 90 00:05:15,765 --> 00:05:17,805 Speaker 2: film for him. What little I've read, he was a 91 00:05:17,805 --> 00:05:20,885 Speaker 2: former jazz protege himself and now he's an artist of 92 00:05:21,085 --> 00:05:24,925 Speaker 2: or making movies. He knows how disingenuous that would have been. 93 00:05:25,005 --> 00:05:30,005 Speaker 2: He knows how crucial that drive is in any artistic endeavor. Dangerous, yes, 94 00:05:30,245 --> 00:05:33,565 Speaker 2: but necessary. And by the end of this film it's 95 00:05:33,565 --> 00:05:36,005 Speaker 2: a neat little trick Gizelle has pulled off. He gets 96 00:05:36,045 --> 00:05:39,605 Speaker 2: to have it both ways. It's crowd pleasing and inspirational, 97 00:05:39,885 --> 00:05:44,605 Speaker 2: but also really problematic and disturbing to really think about 98 00:05:44,605 --> 00:05:46,965 Speaker 2: it from the main character's point of view. So there's 99 00:05:47,005 --> 00:05:50,525 Speaker 2: this element of cliche to this film in terms of 100 00:05:50,605 --> 00:05:53,565 Speaker 2: hitting some notes that we want a film like this 101 00:05:53,844 --> 00:05:56,325 Speaker 2: to hit in terms of being uplifting. And then you 102 00:05:56,325 --> 00:05:58,285 Speaker 2: sort of find yourself after you've risen out of your 103 00:05:58,284 --> 00:06:01,005 Speaker 2: seat and find yourself cheering sitting back down and thinking 104 00:06:01,125 --> 00:06:04,125 Speaker 2: what am I excited about? What am I really cheering for? 105 00:06:04,485 --> 00:06:08,325 Speaker 2: It is dark in that way, and I respect quite 106 00:06:08,325 --> 00:06:10,365 Speaker 2: a bit that little trick that Gizelle's pulled off. 107 00:06:10,485 --> 00:06:12,765 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. Use the word trick because that's 108 00:06:12,925 --> 00:06:16,925 Speaker 1: exactly what he does. In a way. All the questions 109 00:06:17,125 --> 00:06:20,325 Speaker 1: that are at the beginning of this film really are 110 00:06:20,525 --> 00:06:23,964 Speaker 1: still there, aren't they when the lights come up? And 111 00:06:24,205 --> 00:06:27,645 Speaker 1: that's what I loved about it, because it explores all 112 00:06:27,685 --> 00:06:31,804 Speaker 1: the possibilities of this being cautionary and how the direction 113 00:06:31,925 --> 00:06:35,205 Speaker 1: this kid is going is dangerous for himself personally, certainly 114 00:06:35,205 --> 00:06:38,205 Speaker 1: for his relationships, yeah, and even for his physical health. 115 00:06:39,005 --> 00:06:43,205 Speaker 1: But then it opens up to consider without ever really 116 00:06:43,885 --> 00:06:48,404 Speaker 1: condoning the methods that the Simmons character uses, but to 117 00:06:48,485 --> 00:06:54,285 Speaker 1: make us really ask is there something that's worth all 118 00:06:54,325 --> 00:06:55,964 Speaker 1: of this that the kid has gone through? And maybe 119 00:06:55,964 --> 00:06:58,645 Speaker 1: perfection We don't want to get too derailed by that 120 00:06:58,765 --> 00:07:02,205 Speaker 1: as a topic, right, Maybe it's just to be your 121 00:07:02,245 --> 00:07:06,085 Speaker 1: best or to truly achieve something, it's going to take 122 00:07:06,125 --> 00:07:08,565 Speaker 1: some sort of sacrificing, some sort of suffering, And then 123 00:07:08,605 --> 00:07:12,845 Speaker 1: you ask yourself, Okay, is that worth it? Or would 124 00:07:12,845 --> 00:07:15,804 Speaker 1: I be better off having other elements of my life 125 00:07:15,885 --> 00:07:19,244 Speaker 1: be healthier and richer. But I never attained that maybe 126 00:07:19,285 --> 00:07:22,925 Speaker 1: one moment, and we get that moment. This was a 127 00:07:22,965 --> 00:07:26,365 Speaker 1: movie that very much worked for me personally as a 128 00:07:26,445 --> 00:07:30,045 Speaker 1: viewer along the same trajectory as Frank the Michael Fassbender 129 00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:34,805 Speaker 1: film with him in the paper mache head mask leading 130 00:07:34,965 --> 00:07:38,725 Speaker 1: a band, and both pictures I was enjoying quite a 131 00:07:38,725 --> 00:07:42,565 Speaker 1: bit all the way through wasn't crazy about, and both 132 00:07:42,605 --> 00:07:47,244 Speaker 1: of them culminates in a performance that ties everything together, 133 00:07:47,365 --> 00:07:50,485 Speaker 1: brings it all together in this climactic scene, and also 134 00:07:50,565 --> 00:07:53,364 Speaker 1: leaves you still questioning. I think, so this doesn't wrap 135 00:07:53,405 --> 00:07:55,765 Speaker 1: things up neatly, but I can totally see how an 136 00:07:55,765 --> 00:07:58,885 Speaker 1: audience would go out of this picture thinking, oh wow, 137 00:07:58,925 --> 00:08:02,445 Speaker 1: how inspiring that was. But really, the teller character Andrew, 138 00:08:03,125 --> 00:08:05,525 Speaker 1: he doesn't have any clear idea of how he should 139 00:08:05,565 --> 00:08:09,205 Speaker 1: live his life as a jazz artist. Where this film ends. 140 00:08:09,245 --> 00:08:11,605 Speaker 1: Then maybe he did a few scenes earlier, and that's 141 00:08:11,645 --> 00:08:12,445 Speaker 1: what I liked about it. 142 00:08:12,485 --> 00:08:15,725 Speaker 2: To your point, specifically about the questions this movie is posing, 143 00:08:15,765 --> 00:08:17,245 Speaker 2: it occurred to me that I actually think it would 144 00:08:17,285 --> 00:08:20,685 Speaker 2: be a really fun personality test to give someone to 145 00:08:20,685 --> 00:08:22,805 Speaker 2: have them watch a scene that happens near the end 146 00:08:22,845 --> 00:08:24,205 Speaker 2: of the movie, and I'll be vague here to not 147 00:08:24,245 --> 00:08:28,125 Speaker 2: spoil anything, but there's a conversation where Fletcher JK. Simmons 148 00:08:28,205 --> 00:08:32,165 Speaker 2: lays out his rationale. He explains why he pushed Andrew 149 00:08:32,445 --> 00:08:35,405 Speaker 2: and his whole ensemble as hard as he did. Take 150 00:08:35,485 --> 00:08:39,045 Speaker 2: that explanation out of the context of the movie. You're 151 00:08:39,045 --> 00:08:42,045 Speaker 2: just meeting this instructor on the street and hearing his 152 00:08:42,125 --> 00:08:45,805 Speaker 2: teaching philosophy. I'm curious how many people would listen and, 153 00:08:45,845 --> 00:08:50,165 Speaker 2: without hesitation, dismiss him and say, I would never want 154 00:08:50,205 --> 00:08:53,285 Speaker 2: to be taught by that man. I couldn't undergo that 155 00:08:53,365 --> 00:08:55,565 Speaker 2: type of process. I don't even want to spend any 156 00:08:55,564 --> 00:08:57,605 Speaker 2: time with him, much less be instructed by him. How 157 00:08:57,605 --> 00:09:00,804 Speaker 2: many people would listen and think, Okay, I get it. 158 00:09:00,804 --> 00:09:03,724 Speaker 2: It sounds rough, but I get it. It could all 159 00:09:03,725 --> 00:09:06,365 Speaker 2: be worth it. Sign me up. Now, take those people, 160 00:09:06,445 --> 00:09:08,725 Speaker 2: the people that said sign me up. Have them watch 161 00:09:08,804 --> 00:09:12,045 Speaker 2: the movie, hear his philosophy. Where this scene appears within 162 00:09:12,085 --> 00:09:14,645 Speaker 2: the context of the movie. You've seen his behavior, you 163 00:09:14,684 --> 00:09:16,605 Speaker 2: see how far he goes, you see all the damage 164 00:09:16,645 --> 00:09:19,445 Speaker 2: he's caused. How many of those people would still say 165 00:09:19,645 --> 00:09:21,925 Speaker 2: sign me up? And how many of them would switch 166 00:09:21,965 --> 00:09:26,365 Speaker 2: their answer to no way. I certainly wasn't unequivocally enthusiastically 167 00:09:26,525 --> 00:09:29,085 Speaker 2: on board, but Josh I was still on board. That's 168 00:09:29,125 --> 00:09:31,525 Speaker 2: how messed up I am. That's how much I buy 169 00:09:31,645 --> 00:09:34,885 Speaker 2: into this notion of artistic great And it's not perfection, 170 00:09:35,005 --> 00:09:38,085 Speaker 2: as you said, because I don't think it's attainable in 171 00:09:38,245 --> 00:09:40,805 Speaker 2: arts anyway. This isn't math or science. There's no formula, 172 00:09:40,845 --> 00:09:43,285 Speaker 2: there's no hard answer, there's no hard right answers. But 173 00:09:43,525 --> 00:09:47,525 Speaker 2: in the striving for a form of perfection, maybe you 174 00:09:47,605 --> 00:09:51,525 Speaker 2: achieve something close, maybe you achieve something transcendent, and in 175 00:09:51,564 --> 00:09:53,285 Speaker 2: that way, maybe it is. 176 00:09:53,285 --> 00:09:55,525 Speaker 1: All worth it. And that's another trick the movie Polls 177 00:09:55,645 --> 00:09:57,925 Speaker 1: is that just when you think you've got this guy 178 00:09:58,005 --> 00:10:02,485 Speaker 1: figured out and demonized, here comes that speech And yeah, 179 00:10:02,564 --> 00:10:04,685 Speaker 1: I was in the same boat as you. I'm thinking, well, 180 00:10:04,925 --> 00:10:07,485 Speaker 1: he's he's maybe got it figured out here and it 181 00:10:07,525 --> 00:10:10,965 Speaker 1: ties into you know, the one line if it's the 182 00:10:10,965 --> 00:10:12,765 Speaker 1: same conversation I'm thinking of, but I'm pretty sure it 183 00:10:12,804 --> 00:10:14,684 Speaker 1: is is when he says something about the worst two 184 00:10:14,684 --> 00:10:17,525 Speaker 1: words in English language are good good job. And doesn't 185 00:10:17,525 --> 00:10:20,765 Speaker 1: that tie into this culture now of every kid's team 186 00:10:20,765 --> 00:10:23,365 Speaker 1: gets a trophy. Right, every kid comes home, whether you're 187 00:10:23,405 --> 00:10:26,165 Speaker 1: in last place or first place, with a ribbon or something. 188 00:10:26,725 --> 00:10:30,125 Speaker 1: And that's the idea behind it, is that we're all 189 00:10:30,445 --> 00:10:33,084 Speaker 1: just here to learn. Now at different contexts. Of course, 190 00:10:33,245 --> 00:10:36,565 Speaker 1: that happens with little kids. Here is well, you know, 191 00:10:36,804 --> 00:10:41,124 Speaker 1: a young adult college age and maybe making that transition 192 00:10:41,325 --> 00:10:45,365 Speaker 1: between Okay, you're bad, get out of my classroom, I'm 193 00:10:45,365 --> 00:10:48,485 Speaker 1: bringing another guy in and at some point you do 194 00:10:48,605 --> 00:10:52,485 Speaker 1: have to have that restriction for the art to breathe, 195 00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:54,684 Speaker 1: and so you see where he's coming from, and the 196 00:10:54,725 --> 00:10:58,765 Speaker 1: movie shifts your perspective. Another interesting question to ask along 197 00:10:58,804 --> 00:11:01,845 Speaker 1: the lines of yours would be what shifts did you 198 00:11:01,925 --> 00:11:06,685 Speaker 1: make during this film? Like where were you agreeing with Simmons? 199 00:11:06,765 --> 00:11:09,245 Speaker 1: Where did you just want to like get him fired? Yeah, 200 00:11:09,245 --> 00:11:11,804 Speaker 1: And I think it's a real emotional trajectory that this. 201 00:11:11,765 --> 00:11:13,844 Speaker 2: Picture takes you through, There's no doubt. And I think 202 00:11:13,845 --> 00:11:16,525 Speaker 2: a shorter version of this same challenge it comes in 203 00:11:16,564 --> 00:11:18,565 Speaker 2: the form of a question that happens in a dinner 204 00:11:18,564 --> 00:11:23,245 Speaker 2: table conversation much earlier in the film, where Andrew, in 205 00:11:23,445 --> 00:11:27,125 Speaker 2: justifying his pursuit of this ambition, says, basically, I'd rather 206 00:11:27,205 --> 00:11:29,925 Speaker 2: die at thirty four, but be somebody that people are 207 00:11:29,965 --> 00:11:32,925 Speaker 2: still talking about fifty sixty years from now versus someone 208 00:11:32,965 --> 00:11:36,245 Speaker 2: who lives to be ninety. Yeah, and nobody cares about 209 00:11:36,365 --> 00:11:38,925 Speaker 2: not memorable in any way. That's another question. I think 210 00:11:38,965 --> 00:11:41,765 Speaker 2: a lot of people listening probably have asked themselves at 211 00:11:41,765 --> 00:11:44,285 Speaker 2: some point, and that reaching for greatness. I said this 212 00:11:44,365 --> 00:11:46,125 Speaker 2: movie was one of my most anticipated movies of the 213 00:11:46,205 --> 00:11:48,965 Speaker 2: year because that's something I am always drawn to. Those 214 00:11:49,085 --> 00:11:51,405 Speaker 2: kinds of stories is something that has always fascinated me. 215 00:11:51,445 --> 00:11:53,725 Speaker 2: For whatever reason. It came up a lot recently in 216 00:11:53,765 --> 00:11:56,525 Speaker 2: connection with my top five movie Tattoos. Remember, I was 217 00:11:57,125 --> 00:12:01,245 Speaker 2: paying tribute to know Man on Wire, Felipe Patv pulling 218 00:12:01,245 --> 00:12:04,045 Speaker 2: off this unbelievable feat and all that jazz, Joe Giddy, 219 00:12:04,085 --> 00:12:07,445 Speaker 2: and a character pursuing this perfection and always failing. It 220 00:12:07,485 --> 00:12:11,325 Speaker 2: also connects Josh with something else I'm always preoccupied with. 221 00:12:11,405 --> 00:12:13,005 Speaker 2: It comes up a lot here on the show, which 222 00:12:13,045 --> 00:12:16,285 Speaker 2: is purpose. One of the reasons I think this type 223 00:12:16,325 --> 00:12:19,285 Speaker 2: of ambition is so attractive, even though it's so obviously 224 00:12:19,325 --> 00:12:23,564 Speaker 2: potentially harmful, is that it's simplifies everything. Sure, if your 225 00:12:23,765 --> 00:12:27,525 Speaker 2: entire focus is this goal, whatever that goal is, then 226 00:12:27,645 --> 00:12:29,964 Speaker 2: virtually every decision you have to make has already been 227 00:12:30,005 --> 00:12:32,365 Speaker 2: made for you, or is at least much easier to decide. 228 00:12:32,365 --> 00:12:34,645 Speaker 2: There's another great scene in Whiplash that gets directly at this, 229 00:12:34,885 --> 00:12:36,965 Speaker 2: in both dialogue and also how it shot, which I 230 00:12:37,005 --> 00:12:38,965 Speaker 2: know we want to talk about a little bit. Andrew 231 00:12:39,005 --> 00:12:41,204 Speaker 2: takes this girl he's interested in. He asked her out 232 00:12:41,205 --> 00:12:45,125 Speaker 2: at the movie theater. She's selling popcorn nicole out for pizza, 233 00:12:45,485 --> 00:12:49,165 Speaker 2: and she reveals that she really doesn't know what she 234 00:12:49,205 --> 00:12:51,804 Speaker 2: wants to do with her life. There's no real reason 235 00:12:51,804 --> 00:12:53,805 Speaker 2: why she decided to go to school at Fordham, it 236 00:12:53,885 --> 00:12:56,045 Speaker 2: was just there. She doesn't know what her major is 237 00:12:56,125 --> 00:12:58,325 Speaker 2: yet she's still searching. It's this very kind of vulnerable 238 00:12:58,365 --> 00:13:01,365 Speaker 2: moment and Andrew's reaction. He's a nice enough kid, at 239 00:13:01,445 --> 00:13:03,645 Speaker 2: least at this point in the film. His reaction to 240 00:13:03,684 --> 00:13:07,645 Speaker 2: that isn't mean or hurtful, but his questions are just 241 00:13:08,045 --> 00:13:11,165 Speaker 2: pointed enough that it's quite clear to her and to 242 00:13:11,285 --> 00:13:15,645 Speaker 2: us that he just cannot fathom being so directionless, so 243 00:13:15,845 --> 00:13:18,725 Speaker 2: lacking and drive, so lacking in purpose. And she certainly 244 00:13:18,804 --> 00:13:21,804 Speaker 2: senses it, and the exchange ends awkwardly. But the reason 245 00:13:21,845 --> 00:13:24,005 Speaker 2: we sense it, Josh, It isn't just the words, it's 246 00:13:24,045 --> 00:13:27,084 Speaker 2: because of the editing here in this sequence. It's been 247 00:13:27,205 --> 00:13:30,085 Speaker 2: up to this point in the conversation a pretty standard 248 00:13:30,125 --> 00:13:33,485 Speaker 2: shot reverse shot conversation, and then he asks that first 249 00:13:34,045 --> 00:13:37,444 Speaker 2: leading question and she recognizes the subtext, and the pace 250 00:13:37,485 --> 00:13:40,045 Speaker 2: of the editing quickens. The editor here is Tom Cross. 251 00:13:40,564 --> 00:13:43,045 Speaker 2: It quickens just for that back and forth, a little 252 00:13:43,045 --> 00:13:45,084 Speaker 2: bit of if you've seen the movie Double Time Swing, 253 00:13:45,485 --> 00:13:48,804 Speaker 2: if you will, and it just completely heightens the intensity 254 00:13:48,804 --> 00:13:51,645 Speaker 2: of that scene and draws our focus into what's really 255 00:13:51,684 --> 00:13:53,925 Speaker 2: going on in the back of his mind, which we 256 00:13:53,925 --> 00:13:55,805 Speaker 2: can sense a little bit based on his personality, but 257 00:13:55,845 --> 00:13:57,925 Speaker 2: it's really there because of the way that scene is 258 00:13:57,965 --> 00:14:00,205 Speaker 2: captured and the way it plays out rhythmically. 259 00:14:00,564 --> 00:14:02,645 Speaker 1: Hey, how are you? 260 00:14:02,804 --> 00:14:06,285 Speaker 2: I'm good? Thanks? Good? The usual. 261 00:14:08,725 --> 00:14:13,925 Speaker 1: Look, I don't really know how. I see in your 262 00:14:14,005 --> 00:14:17,564 Speaker 1: law and I think that you're really pretty and would 263 00:14:17,564 --> 00:14:18,005 Speaker 1: you want. 264 00:14:17,845 --> 00:14:23,405 Speaker 2: To go out with me? Ever? Please go away? 265 00:14:24,005 --> 00:14:26,125 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so sorry. 266 00:14:26,285 --> 00:14:29,725 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I'm just messing with you. I'm going 267 00:14:29,805 --> 00:14:35,165 Speaker 2: to make you. Oh my god, I'm sorry. 268 00:14:35,285 --> 00:14:37,205 Speaker 1: That's actually pretty mean. 269 00:14:37,405 --> 00:14:44,125 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I didn't mean so what's your Oh I'm Andrew, 270 00:14:44,205 --> 00:14:46,565 Speaker 2: Andrew I'm Nicole. 271 00:14:46,925 --> 00:14:49,925 Speaker 1: Nice to meet you, Nicole. I'm glad you mentioned the 272 00:14:50,005 --> 00:14:53,645 Speaker 1: character of Nicole. She's played by Melissa Benowist I believe 273 00:14:53,685 --> 00:14:55,325 Speaker 1: is how you pronounce it, and she only gets a 274 00:14:55,365 --> 00:14:58,365 Speaker 1: handful of scenes, but she's really crucial because there isn't 275 00:14:58,525 --> 00:15:02,805 Speaker 1: really that opposing force in this film for the Miles 276 00:15:02,845 --> 00:15:06,085 Speaker 1: tell her character. We do see his father by Paul Reiser, 277 00:15:06,165 --> 00:15:10,845 Speaker 1: but he's more of an ingratiating, supporting He's not going 278 00:15:10,925 --> 00:15:13,405 Speaker 1: to be real harsh with his son sense, but she 279 00:15:13,685 --> 00:15:16,885 Speaker 1: is that polar opposite. She doesn't, as you said, doesn't 280 00:15:16,925 --> 00:15:20,205 Speaker 1: know what she wants to do, and positions that as 281 00:15:20,245 --> 00:15:23,365 Speaker 1: a worthy to live your life, to explore and not 282 00:15:24,045 --> 00:15:25,965 Speaker 1: have everything laid out in front of you and go 283 00:15:26,045 --> 00:15:28,325 Speaker 1: after it with this driving force. So I like that 284 00:15:28,965 --> 00:15:30,805 Speaker 1: she has that role in the film. And you're right 285 00:15:30,885 --> 00:15:33,965 Speaker 1: about the editing so crucial to talk about in this 286 00:15:34,085 --> 00:15:38,485 Speaker 1: picture because we get so many insert shots I noticed 287 00:15:38,525 --> 00:15:42,285 Speaker 1: that are not only there to convey information, but the 288 00:15:42,325 --> 00:15:45,165 Speaker 1: pacing at which they come are like accent beats and 289 00:15:45,205 --> 00:15:48,125 Speaker 1: a piece of music, and we get them where you'd expect. 290 00:15:48,205 --> 00:15:51,925 Speaker 1: When Andrew joins this elite group and we first see 291 00:15:51,925 --> 00:15:54,805 Speaker 1: them warming up, so we get the moistening of the reads, 292 00:15:54,845 --> 00:15:56,965 Speaker 1: the tuning of the drum keys, all in these quick 293 00:15:56,965 --> 00:16:00,725 Speaker 1: answers procedure very much, very much, But we also get 294 00:16:00,725 --> 00:16:03,925 Speaker 1: these accent beats in other scenes where you wouldn't expect them. 295 00:16:04,005 --> 00:16:05,965 Speaker 1: That date scene between the two of them will get 296 00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:08,165 Speaker 1: a quick one under the table of her foot inching 297 00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:10,485 Speaker 1: toward his, or even the scene where he goes to 298 00:16:10,525 --> 00:16:12,605 Speaker 1: the movies with his father, we just get an insert 299 00:16:12,645 --> 00:16:16,485 Speaker 1: shot of popcorn. And all that does is give us 300 00:16:16,565 --> 00:16:20,925 Speaker 1: this sense of fluidity and movement, so that this is 301 00:16:20,925 --> 00:16:24,885 Speaker 1: a movie that's always on the move, and that kind 302 00:16:24,925 --> 00:16:27,445 Speaker 1: of incorporates this idea of jazz style as well. And 303 00:16:27,485 --> 00:16:29,965 Speaker 1: I do like how Chazelle and the editor Tom Cross 304 00:16:29,965 --> 00:16:32,045 Speaker 1: incorporate that into the film. 305 00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:34,565 Speaker 2: Or whatever, just because he's so constantly in that space. 306 00:16:34,605 --> 00:16:37,245 Speaker 2: But even when he's not listening to music, it seems 307 00:16:37,285 --> 00:16:39,005 Speaker 2: though the music's following, yeah. 308 00:16:38,765 --> 00:16:41,525 Speaker 1: Pursuing him for sure. And even when we get establishing 309 00:16:41,605 --> 00:16:45,285 Speaker 1: shots of New York City, they're quick shots cut to 310 00:16:45,405 --> 00:16:47,685 Speaker 1: the beat of the song that is playing. I do 311 00:16:47,725 --> 00:16:50,325 Speaker 1: want to ask you, though, how you feel about these 312 00:16:50,405 --> 00:16:54,485 Speaker 1: formal choices in that climactic scene which we won't necessarily 313 00:16:54,525 --> 00:16:58,485 Speaker 1: give away what happens, but it is the big scene 314 00:16:58,485 --> 00:17:01,405 Speaker 1: at the end, the one that won me over on 315 00:17:01,445 --> 00:17:05,605 Speaker 1: the movie overall. Yet I did feel like the esthetic 316 00:17:05,645 --> 00:17:08,885 Speaker 1: approach that Chazelle was taking throughout the movie by trying 317 00:17:08,925 --> 00:17:12,285 Speaker 1: to match his visuals with the music, almost went a 318 00:17:12,325 --> 00:17:16,325 Speaker 1: little overboard there. I mean, we get tracking shots, swish pans, 319 00:17:16,845 --> 00:17:19,965 Speaker 1: wide screen shots of the auditorium. This is a performance, 320 00:17:20,005 --> 00:17:22,045 Speaker 1: we can say it's taking place, said a jazz competition, 321 00:17:22,085 --> 00:17:24,725 Speaker 1: I believe, And it was almost even for jazz. It 322 00:17:24,765 --> 00:17:25,725 Speaker 1: was almost too much for me. 323 00:17:25,925 --> 00:17:28,285 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't for me. I think that that might 324 00:17:28,325 --> 00:17:31,365 Speaker 2: have been though that as someone who does love jazz 325 00:17:31,445 --> 00:17:34,165 Speaker 2: music and who has played in jazz group since seventh grade, 326 00:17:34,445 --> 00:17:36,405 Speaker 2: starting out in sort of middle school and high school 327 00:17:36,445 --> 00:17:38,205 Speaker 2: bands where I didn't really know what jazz was, but 328 00:17:38,245 --> 00:17:42,405 Speaker 2: then actually discovering bebop and that sort of thing and 329 00:17:42,685 --> 00:17:46,125 Speaker 2: really appreciating it playing in different jazz combos, let's just 330 00:17:46,165 --> 00:17:48,845 Speaker 2: say that I was really thankful, or at least the 331 00:17:48,885 --> 00:17:51,205 Speaker 2: audience was really thankful that when I saw this movie 332 00:17:51,365 --> 00:17:53,765 Speaker 2: late on a Sunday night, there was no one else 333 00:17:53,805 --> 00:17:56,365 Speaker 2: in the row with me, because I wasn't just tapping 334 00:17:56,445 --> 00:18:00,165 Speaker 2: my foot. I was, I was music leg I mean yeah, 335 00:18:00,205 --> 00:18:02,045 Speaker 2: I mean I was. I was really into it. So 336 00:18:02,085 --> 00:18:04,805 Speaker 2: honestly I might have been so hypnotized by the music, yeah, 337 00:18:04,805 --> 00:18:07,565 Speaker 2: and the playing that even though I was aware of 338 00:18:07,605 --> 00:18:10,245 Speaker 2: some of the pyrotechnics of the camera, it certainly didn't 339 00:18:10,285 --> 00:18:12,765 Speaker 2: draw me out of it. If anything, it drew me in. 340 00:18:12,965 --> 00:18:15,685 Speaker 2: That's how caught up in the end of this film. 341 00:18:15,725 --> 00:18:17,525 Speaker 2: I was, even as I said, I caught myself also 342 00:18:17,605 --> 00:18:20,285 Speaker 2: thinking about kind of the ramifications of the end of 343 00:18:20,325 --> 00:18:22,765 Speaker 2: the film I love too, Josh, that I honestly didn't 344 00:18:22,765 --> 00:18:23,365 Speaker 2: see it coming. 345 00:18:23,605 --> 00:18:24,845 Speaker 1: You can say I didn't either. 346 00:18:24,925 --> 00:18:27,125 Speaker 2: Now, well, this is exactly where this type of movie's going, 347 00:18:27,125 --> 00:18:29,725 Speaker 2: But the movie takes enough little detours that to get 348 00:18:29,765 --> 00:18:32,085 Speaker 2: to that scene certainly was something I didn't expect. 349 00:18:32,125 --> 00:18:33,925 Speaker 1: And that final scene I think you could describe as 350 00:18:33,965 --> 00:18:36,965 Speaker 1: having a three act structure itself for sure. So there's 351 00:18:37,005 --> 00:18:40,525 Speaker 1: the initial dtour, but it takes a few other turns. 352 00:18:40,205 --> 00:18:43,845 Speaker 2: Also, starting with Miles Teller, the star of this film, 353 00:18:43,885 --> 00:18:47,325 Speaker 2: an actor that you've come to appreciate recently due to 354 00:18:47,365 --> 00:18:49,645 Speaker 2: his performance in The Spectacular. Now I've been a little 355 00:18:49,645 --> 00:18:52,365 Speaker 2: bit on the Teller bandwagon, going back to a few 356 00:18:52,365 --> 00:18:54,205 Speaker 2: earlier performances, What did you think of him here? 357 00:18:54,765 --> 00:18:57,565 Speaker 1: Well, what I liked about his performance here is that 358 00:18:57,725 --> 00:19:00,325 Speaker 1: he goes in a different direction than The Spectacular Now 359 00:19:00,365 --> 00:19:02,285 Speaker 1: and one that was very encouraging because that was a 360 00:19:02,325 --> 00:19:05,565 Speaker 1: movie which very much in the performance and the character 361 00:19:05,565 --> 00:19:09,005 Speaker 1: relied on his charm, and he played that to the hilt. 362 00:19:09,045 --> 00:19:10,805 Speaker 1: I mean, he just had you, even a kid with 363 00:19:10,925 --> 00:19:15,165 Speaker 1: major faults, he had you one over instantaneously. He sort 364 00:19:15,165 --> 00:19:19,285 Speaker 1: of drains himself of that here and it's maybe not 365 00:19:19,405 --> 00:19:23,445 Speaker 1: as ingratiating of afformance, but it's a perfect fit for 366 00:19:23,485 --> 00:19:25,325 Speaker 1: the part and for the movie and for this story 367 00:19:25,325 --> 00:19:28,925 Speaker 1: that's being told. And again I was encouraged that he's 368 00:19:29,045 --> 00:19:31,845 Speaker 1: not concerned with playing somebody who's likable necessarily. He was 369 00:19:31,845 --> 00:19:33,885 Speaker 1: more than willing to go that direction. And you see 370 00:19:33,885 --> 00:19:36,685 Speaker 1: it in that scene, that date scene again, because The 371 00:19:36,725 --> 00:19:39,885 Speaker 1: Spectacular Now is a teenage romance in some levels, so 372 00:19:40,365 --> 00:19:43,645 Speaker 1: it's almost like it could have gone that way. And 373 00:19:43,725 --> 00:19:47,365 Speaker 1: he really puts the emphasis on the drive that Andrew 374 00:19:47,445 --> 00:19:50,245 Speaker 1: has and his willingness, especially in the second date scene, 375 00:19:50,805 --> 00:19:53,925 Speaker 1: to just jettison what he at least thinks might hold 376 00:19:53,965 --> 00:19:54,365 Speaker 1: him back. 377 00:19:54,565 --> 00:19:59,085 Speaker 2: It's funny because whenever an actor plays a performer of 378 00:19:59,125 --> 00:20:02,005 Speaker 2: some kind and maybe there's Oscar talk and I don't 379 00:20:02,005 --> 00:20:03,485 Speaker 2: know if there's going to be for Miles Teller in 380 00:20:03,485 --> 00:20:05,925 Speaker 2: this film, but the question comes up, well, are we 381 00:20:06,005 --> 00:20:09,845 Speaker 2: really awarding or recognizing the performance as an actor or 382 00:20:09,925 --> 00:20:11,965 Speaker 2: actress or is it just that we're all so wowed 383 00:20:11,965 --> 00:20:13,645 Speaker 2: by the fact that, oh, look, Jeff Bridges can play 384 00:20:13,685 --> 00:20:16,205 Speaker 2: the guitar, or look at how great they sing in 385 00:20:16,245 --> 00:20:19,325 Speaker 2: this scene. You're almost more wowed by the vocal performance 386 00:20:19,325 --> 00:20:21,845 Speaker 2: than maybe any of the acting. I don't know whether 387 00:20:21,965 --> 00:20:23,685 Speaker 2: we should give an actor extra credit for that, but 388 00:20:23,765 --> 00:20:26,405 Speaker 2: maybe we should give Miles Teller some extra credit Josh 389 00:20:26,445 --> 00:20:30,485 Speaker 2: for the drumming, because lots of people can sing pretty 390 00:20:30,565 --> 00:20:34,205 Speaker 2: darn well. Not very many people, relatively speaking, on this 391 00:20:34,325 --> 00:20:37,765 Speaker 2: planet can play the drums or even fake playing the 392 00:20:37,805 --> 00:20:41,085 Speaker 2: drums at this level. And without that ability, and of 393 00:20:41,085 --> 00:20:43,685 Speaker 2: course he got some lessons, he had some background in it, 394 00:20:43,725 --> 00:20:46,045 Speaker 2: but he did go through a boot camp that paid 395 00:20:46,085 --> 00:20:49,445 Speaker 2: off really well. Without his ability and the commitment he shows, 396 00:20:49,685 --> 00:20:51,565 Speaker 2: this whole movie falls apart. I said that when we 397 00:20:51,565 --> 00:20:54,165 Speaker 2: were looking ahead to this movie, you can't fake jazz 398 00:20:54,245 --> 00:20:56,445 Speaker 2: drumming at this level, and the movie doesn't. I'm sure 399 00:20:56,525 --> 00:20:58,205 Speaker 2: there are a few tricks at times where it cuts 400 00:20:58,245 --> 00:21:00,645 Speaker 2: to some of those close ups. Maybe he's not playing entirely, 401 00:21:00,805 --> 00:21:04,445 Speaker 2: but there are plenty of scenes where it's entirely clear, 402 00:21:04,485 --> 00:21:07,325 Speaker 2: there's no way around it that Miles Teller is playing 403 00:21:07,405 --> 00:21:07,845 Speaker 2: the drums. 404 00:21:08,045 --> 00:21:08,965 Speaker 1: And also. 405 00:21:10,245 --> 00:21:13,085 Speaker 2: You believe it every second beyond that, though you're absolutely 406 00:21:13,165 --> 00:21:14,965 Speaker 2: right that what he brings here is a little bit 407 00:21:15,005 --> 00:21:17,365 Speaker 2: more of the wounded, vulnerable soul if he played in 408 00:21:17,445 --> 00:21:19,925 Speaker 2: John Cameron Mitchell's Rabbit Hole, though he was much younger then, 409 00:21:20,485 --> 00:21:22,765 Speaker 2: and he doesn't rely on you said charm, you can 410 00:21:22,805 --> 00:21:25,645 Speaker 2: call it charisma he displayed in The Spectacular Now. I 411 00:21:25,645 --> 00:21:28,005 Speaker 2: wrote about this on Letterbox when I shared a few 412 00:21:28,005 --> 00:21:30,965 Speaker 2: comments about that movie. He has to convince us that 413 00:21:31,045 --> 00:21:33,685 Speaker 2: he is one of the most popular kids in school, 414 00:21:34,045 --> 00:21:36,085 Speaker 2: despite the fact that he's not one of the best 415 00:21:36,085 --> 00:21:38,445 Speaker 2: looking kids probably in school. He's certainly not one of 416 00:21:38,485 --> 00:21:41,125 Speaker 2: the most well dressed kids in school, and he's certainly 417 00:21:41,205 --> 00:21:43,085 Speaker 2: not one of the richest. And those are kind of 418 00:21:43,085 --> 00:21:45,845 Speaker 2: the three general attributes that can help propel you to 419 00:21:46,045 --> 00:21:48,565 Speaker 2: winning over any group, especially in high school. He doesn't 420 00:21:48,605 --> 00:21:52,405 Speaker 2: have any of that. It's just his sheer persona. And 421 00:21:52,605 --> 00:21:55,005 Speaker 2: I've talked about this a lot, but a movie like Footloose, 422 00:21:55,325 --> 00:21:57,805 Speaker 2: he's playing that Chris Penn Willard performance. I didn't like 423 00:21:57,805 --> 00:22:00,005 Speaker 2: that Craig Brewer reymake at all. But the one thing 424 00:22:00,005 --> 00:22:02,965 Speaker 2: I did enjoy watching in that film was the charisma 425 00:22:03,005 --> 00:22:06,645 Speaker 2: of Miles Teller. Andrew, as you said, has none of 426 00:22:06,645 --> 00:22:09,445 Speaker 2: that charisma. He is in some ways a blank slate 427 00:22:09,685 --> 00:22:10,925 Speaker 2: beyond this drive. 428 00:22:11,005 --> 00:22:12,605 Speaker 1: What does his dad say about him? At one point 429 00:22:12,645 --> 00:22:14,685 Speaker 1: you have trouble looking people in the asp Yeah, right, yeah, 430 00:22:14,685 --> 00:22:16,485 Speaker 1: And that's the opposite of these others. 431 00:22:16,525 --> 00:22:18,725 Speaker 2: I think he's a character who, if he's not behind 432 00:22:18,765 --> 00:22:21,805 Speaker 2: the drum set, is instantly forgettable. You wouldn't even be 433 00:22:21,805 --> 00:22:23,885 Speaker 2: aware that he was in the room unless he was 434 00:22:23,925 --> 00:22:26,445 Speaker 2: actually playing. Again, in sharp contrast to the other characters 435 00:22:26,445 --> 00:22:28,525 Speaker 2: we've mentioned. More than that, I said that there's a 436 00:22:28,525 --> 00:22:31,125 Speaker 2: point earlier in the film where he's pretty likable. Of course, 437 00:22:31,165 --> 00:22:34,405 Speaker 2: as he gets more driven, he becomes more and more unlikable, 438 00:22:34,525 --> 00:22:37,405 Speaker 2: downright rude, And that does get back to what I 439 00:22:37,445 --> 00:22:39,365 Speaker 2: thought was a really interesting point that I singled out 440 00:22:39,365 --> 00:22:41,845 Speaker 2: from Alex ross Perry last week talking about Listen Up, Philip. 441 00:22:41,965 --> 00:22:44,365 Speaker 2: This movie proves that it's not a genre film per se, 442 00:22:44,405 --> 00:22:46,605 Speaker 2: like an action movie, though maybe it is if the 443 00:22:46,645 --> 00:22:50,484 Speaker 2: genre is kind of the inspirational, mentor protege movie in 444 00:22:50,525 --> 00:22:53,045 Speaker 2: some ways. And we've talked about how this movie contradicts 445 00:22:53,045 --> 00:22:56,645 Speaker 2: some of those cliches. But we forgive narcissistic characters when 446 00:22:56,765 --> 00:22:58,605 Speaker 2: we want to see them succeed when they have a 447 00:22:58,685 --> 00:23:01,885 Speaker 2: clear objective, something they're pursuing, and Andrew does so even 448 00:23:01,885 --> 00:23:04,245 Speaker 2: when he's unlikable. We really feel for him. 449 00:23:04,365 --> 00:23:06,885 Speaker 1: We do, and the main reason I think we do 450 00:23:07,005 --> 00:23:11,925 Speaker 1: is because he has an antagonist, and this is Simmons' movie. 451 00:23:12,005 --> 00:23:15,765 Speaker 1: I mean, the role is built for a big performance 452 00:23:15,765 --> 00:23:18,565 Speaker 1: that the scenery here has been pre salted, and the 453 00:23:18,605 --> 00:23:21,485 Speaker 1: real challenge for Simmons is just not to wallow the 454 00:23:21,525 --> 00:23:25,685 Speaker 1: thing whole. I mean, because you could easily go bonkers 455 00:23:25,765 --> 00:23:27,765 Speaker 1: with a part like this, and I don't think he does. 456 00:23:28,205 --> 00:23:32,605 Speaker 1: I think he stays true to the mania and the cruelty, 457 00:23:33,285 --> 00:23:37,405 Speaker 1: the harshness of this character, but he never seems to 458 00:23:37,445 --> 00:23:40,085 Speaker 1: be doing it outside of the character. And maybe the 459 00:23:40,125 --> 00:23:42,725 Speaker 1: best way to describe that is a lot of the 460 00:23:42,765 --> 00:23:45,965 Speaker 1: stuff that he insults his students with is funny in 461 00:23:46,005 --> 00:23:49,925 Speaker 1: a way. Cruelly funny, sure, but he never seems to 462 00:23:49,925 --> 00:23:53,645 Speaker 1: take pleasure in the laugh. So Simmons doesn't pause and 463 00:23:53,765 --> 00:23:56,725 Speaker 1: let that moment take over the scene because he's still 464 00:23:56,885 --> 00:23:59,725 Speaker 1: angry that that kid screwed up. And that's what you see. 465 00:24:00,045 --> 00:24:02,805 Speaker 1: So I really think you could call this one of 466 00:24:02,845 --> 00:24:05,565 Speaker 1: those big oscar bating performances. It will get a lot 467 00:24:05,605 --> 00:24:07,765 Speaker 1: of attention because it's so loud, but I think it's 468 00:24:07,885 --> 00:24:10,885 Speaker 1: very subtle too. I mean, think about the scene early 469 00:24:10,925 --> 00:24:13,805 Speaker 1: on where he takes Andrew's side in the hall and 470 00:24:14,245 --> 00:24:17,165 Speaker 1: asks him just some personal questions, talks to him in 471 00:24:17,205 --> 00:24:20,045 Speaker 1: a lie a tone, and you think, oh, you know, 472 00:24:20,445 --> 00:24:23,245 Speaker 1: you still think he's probably jerking him around, right, because 473 00:24:23,245 --> 00:24:25,405 Speaker 1: we've seen enough now this can't really be him, but 474 00:24:25,445 --> 00:24:27,645 Speaker 1: you're wondering maybe, well, maybe he's. 475 00:24:27,525 --> 00:24:29,685 Speaker 2: Just jerking him around. This is what I was thinking anyway, 476 00:24:29,805 --> 00:24:32,205 Speaker 2: in that he's just trying to put him at ease. 477 00:24:32,445 --> 00:24:35,045 Speaker 2: So even though he is doing something quote unquote nice, 478 00:24:35,045 --> 00:24:36,365 Speaker 2: it's still a form of manipulation. 479 00:24:36,405 --> 00:24:38,005 Speaker 1: It's a former manipulation on two levels. 480 00:24:38,045 --> 00:24:39,645 Speaker 2: I think there becomes another form. 481 00:24:39,885 --> 00:24:41,725 Speaker 1: He's putting him at ease, but then when he gets 482 00:24:41,725 --> 00:24:43,445 Speaker 1: in there and screws up he uses some of that 483 00:24:43,485 --> 00:24:49,565 Speaker 1: information to insult him and just it's diabolical really. But 484 00:24:50,285 --> 00:24:53,885 Speaker 1: even though the roles interchange a bit as the movie 485 00:24:53,925 --> 00:24:57,645 Speaker 1: goes on, I also don't think we ever get hints 486 00:24:57,645 --> 00:25:00,445 Speaker 1: of the other side of the Fletcher character, which would 487 00:25:00,485 --> 00:25:02,365 Speaker 1: be a generic way to do it, you know, show 488 00:25:02,365 --> 00:25:05,165 Speaker 1: a scene of him at home with his family or 489 00:25:05,205 --> 00:25:08,005 Speaker 1: something like that. We get a very quick shot of 490 00:25:08,125 --> 00:25:10,645 Speaker 1: him talking to you get the sense it's a former 491 00:25:11,125 --> 00:25:14,765 Speaker 1: coworker's younger daughter in a nicer voice. But really, this 492 00:25:14,805 --> 00:25:18,285 Speaker 1: movie is not too concerned with giving Fletcher this other 493 00:25:18,405 --> 00:25:22,445 Speaker 1: nicer side. They're committed to his awfulness, and so is Simmons. 494 00:25:22,445 --> 00:25:25,125 Speaker 2: You're right, and maybe there is one bigger scene beyond 495 00:25:25,205 --> 00:25:28,125 Speaker 2: that scene with the daughter where a little bit of 496 00:25:28,205 --> 00:25:30,565 Speaker 2: humanity comes out in him. We do learn a little 497 00:25:30,565 --> 00:25:33,365 Speaker 2: bit later some information that undercuts the humanity that's saying 498 00:25:33,365 --> 00:25:36,085 Speaker 2: all that, Yeah, but the performance is absolutely genuine and 499 00:25:36,125 --> 00:25:39,245 Speaker 2: there seems to be real emotion under there, And I 500 00:25:39,245 --> 00:25:41,285 Speaker 2: think that's what's so fascinating is even in the moment 501 00:25:41,365 --> 00:25:43,685 Speaker 2: and then even thinking about it later, you can't help 502 00:25:43,725 --> 00:25:45,765 Speaker 2: but think that this emotional scene that he has in 503 00:25:45,765 --> 00:25:47,565 Speaker 2: front of his band, where he seems to let his 504 00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:49,965 Speaker 2: guard down. He's different than he's been at any other 505 00:25:50,005 --> 00:25:53,365 Speaker 2: point in the film. You can't help but completely believe it, 506 00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:57,405 Speaker 2: but then find yourself also saying, but he's probably doing 507 00:25:57,445 --> 00:26:00,125 Speaker 2: it just because he's been writing them so hard. He's 508 00:26:00,245 --> 00:26:04,245 Speaker 2: using something that's real, but he is going to exploit it, Yeah, 509 00:26:04,245 --> 00:26:06,925 Speaker 2: for his own good, and that good is that he 510 00:26:07,005 --> 00:26:09,045 Speaker 2: can only brate them so much. There has to be 511 00:26:09,085 --> 00:26:13,245 Speaker 2: that one little break where he shows that to him 512 00:26:13,365 --> 00:26:15,285 Speaker 2: even if he doesn't really want to let them in, 513 00:26:15,405 --> 00:26:17,765 Speaker 2: he has to show them that so they believe that 514 00:26:17,805 --> 00:26:20,845 Speaker 2: he really cares about them, that all he's doing is 515 00:26:21,405 --> 00:26:24,525 Speaker 2: for them. He's hurting them, but it's for their own good. 516 00:26:24,685 --> 00:26:27,085 Speaker 2: They need moments like that that he gives them there, 517 00:26:27,405 --> 00:26:30,845 Speaker 2: and that that complexity the J. K. Simmons is playing 518 00:26:30,845 --> 00:26:33,165 Speaker 2: there in that scene is really something. 519 00:26:33,285 --> 00:26:34,845 Speaker 1: Why do you suppose I just hurled a chair at 520 00:26:34,845 --> 00:26:35,125 Speaker 1: your head? 521 00:26:35,165 --> 00:26:40,484 Speaker 2: And even I don't know, true you do the tempo? 522 00:26:40,925 --> 00:26:43,925 Speaker 2: Were you rushing or were you dragging? I don't know? 523 00:26:46,765 --> 00:26:48,805 Speaker 1: Start counting here, five six and four? 524 00:26:48,925 --> 00:26:51,165 Speaker 2: Damn it, look at me one. 525 00:26:51,085 --> 00:26:55,125 Speaker 1: Two three four one two three four one two three? 526 00:26:55,605 --> 00:26:57,285 Speaker 2: Was I rushing or was I dragging? 527 00:26:58,565 --> 00:27:01,125 Speaker 1: And that brings us back to this idea of perfection, 528 00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:03,605 Speaker 1: because I don't ever get the sense with the Fletcher 529 00:27:03,725 --> 00:27:07,605 Speaker 1: character that he's doing any of this to glorify himself 530 00:27:07,645 --> 00:27:10,365 Speaker 1: as their instructor, or even to win them first place 531 00:27:10,445 --> 00:27:13,485 Speaker 1: so that he becomes known as this teacher who's won 532 00:27:13,605 --> 00:27:17,085 Speaker 1: so many contests. He you believe is doing it because 533 00:27:17,165 --> 00:27:20,725 Speaker 1: this is the best way he understands to get them 534 00:27:20,765 --> 00:27:25,445 Speaker 1: to play as perfectly as they can. And there's something relatable, 535 00:27:25,565 --> 00:27:28,925 Speaker 1: especially if you have perfectionist streak within you, there's something 536 00:27:29,245 --> 00:27:31,405 Speaker 1: relatable to that, and so there's a separation between his 537 00:27:31,445 --> 00:27:32,365 Speaker 1: tactics and his goal. 538 00:27:32,845 --> 00:27:35,725 Speaker 2: He's so scary here that I think he's actually scarier 539 00:27:35,765 --> 00:27:38,805 Speaker 2: than Vern Schillinger, who is the character most of us 540 00:27:38,845 --> 00:27:41,885 Speaker 2: probably first saw JK. Simmons on screen, and it was 541 00:27:42,045 --> 00:27:44,205 Speaker 2: HBO's Oz and Josh he's playing there. I don't know 542 00:27:44,205 --> 00:27:48,645 Speaker 2: if you ever watched Oz. He's playing a neo Nazi, brutal, 543 00:27:49,245 --> 00:27:50,445 Speaker 2: murdering rapist. 544 00:27:50,565 --> 00:27:52,685 Speaker 1: Okay, he's didn't see Oz, but I can picture. 545 00:27:52,565 --> 00:27:55,565 Speaker 2: He's one of the scariest guys in that entire prison, 546 00:27:55,925 --> 00:27:59,845 Speaker 2: one that's full of scary characters, and he's actually probably 547 00:28:00,045 --> 00:28:04,085 Speaker 2: more terrifying here, because at least Shillinger has some fun. 548 00:28:04,205 --> 00:28:06,245 Speaker 2: There is a little bit of a lighter side to 549 00:28:06,325 --> 00:28:09,005 Speaker 2: him that, as you said, this movie doesn't really give us. 550 00:28:09,205 --> 00:28:12,405 Speaker 2: There's a moment in this movie. It's like the second 551 00:28:12,405 --> 00:28:16,325 Speaker 2: time we see the JK. Simmons character, he walks into 552 00:28:16,365 --> 00:28:19,725 Speaker 2: another band rehearsal one that Oh He Andrew character Miles 553 00:28:19,725 --> 00:28:22,605 Speaker 2: Teller is performing in and just the way he walks 554 00:28:22,645 --> 00:28:25,125 Speaker 2: into the room, I burst out laughing. Actually, I mean 555 00:28:25,165 --> 00:28:27,445 Speaker 2: in a very good way. He is such a force. 556 00:28:27,725 --> 00:28:30,965 Speaker 2: He has such little regard for anyone else around him 557 00:28:30,965 --> 00:28:32,885 Speaker 2: that when he walks into this room, it's like a 558 00:28:32,965 --> 00:28:36,245 Speaker 2: hurricane comes in the room. Everybody stops. It's super loud, 559 00:28:36,285 --> 00:28:40,725 Speaker 2: even the instructor. The other instructor kowtows too. Yeah, and 560 00:28:40,805 --> 00:28:43,405 Speaker 2: it just becomes his class. And I love that moment. 561 00:28:43,445 --> 00:28:45,445 Speaker 2: I did think about a lot. You mentioned Full Metal Jacket. 562 00:28:45,485 --> 00:28:48,685 Speaker 2: That's here Black Swan. Of course this movie really mirrors 563 00:28:49,165 --> 00:28:52,965 Speaker 2: closely as well, and the one key difference being in 564 00:28:53,005 --> 00:28:56,885 Speaker 2: the mentor protege relationship between Toma and the Nina character 565 00:28:56,885 --> 00:28:58,845 Speaker 2: in Black Swan. And what we get here is there's 566 00:28:58,845 --> 00:29:03,165 Speaker 2: that sexual element psychologically that really rereaks Havoc and black Swan. 567 00:29:03,205 --> 00:29:05,565 Speaker 2: We don't get that here, But beyond that, there's also 568 00:29:06,085 --> 00:29:09,725 Speaker 2: some more subtlety to a character like Toma and black Swan, 569 00:29:09,765 --> 00:29:12,845 Speaker 2: because he does have to sort of play a psychological 570 00:29:12,925 --> 00:29:16,485 Speaker 2: game and insinuate himself to get her to do what 571 00:29:16,765 --> 00:29:19,285 Speaker 2: he wants her to ultimately do, and we don't ever 572 00:29:19,325 --> 00:29:22,405 Speaker 2: see that. It's not about jesting the right way to 573 00:29:22,445 --> 00:29:25,685 Speaker 2: do something or get at it through your own devices. 574 00:29:25,725 --> 00:29:28,445 Speaker 2: He's going to compel you to do it the way 575 00:29:28,525 --> 00:29:29,245 Speaker 2: he wants. 576 00:29:28,965 --> 00:29:30,885 Speaker 1: You to do it, to get on my tempo. 577 00:29:31,045 --> 00:29:34,365 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. And that doesn't mean that, of course, 578 00:29:34,445 --> 00:29:37,845 Speaker 2: it doesn't still hurt when he compels you that way, 579 00:29:38,045 --> 00:29:40,125 Speaker 2: but you know at least that he's going to be 580 00:29:40,165 --> 00:29:42,885 Speaker 2: blatant about it, that he is going to impose his 581 00:29:42,925 --> 00:29:45,045 Speaker 2: will on you. And I do think it gets back. Actually, 582 00:29:45,045 --> 00:29:46,685 Speaker 2: one of the things I love about this performance is 583 00:29:46,725 --> 00:29:50,445 Speaker 2: it gets back to this idea of purpose. Everything he 584 00:29:50,525 --> 00:29:53,925 Speaker 2: does is with a purpose. He knows exactly what he 585 00:29:53,965 --> 00:29:57,085 Speaker 2: wants in every single moment he comes into that classroom, 586 00:29:57,125 --> 00:29:59,805 Speaker 2: not to observe, but to find a new player. He 587 00:29:59,845 --> 00:30:01,485 Speaker 2: comes in, he points him to exactly the bars he 588 00:30:01,485 --> 00:30:03,365 Speaker 2: wants to go to that scene where he looks at 589 00:30:03,365 --> 00:30:06,085 Speaker 2: the score and ises it for about three seconds and 590 00:30:06,085 --> 00:30:07,965 Speaker 2: then says, cute. You know, he got out of it 591 00:30:07,965 --> 00:30:09,645 Speaker 2: exactly what he needed to get out of it, and 592 00:30:09,685 --> 00:30:12,525 Speaker 2: now he's going to have this transaction. And even what 593 00:30:12,605 --> 00:30:15,085 Speaker 2: he wears black the same thing every day. Yes, it's 594 00:30:15,125 --> 00:30:17,285 Speaker 2: kind of artsy, but is also simple. He's not going 595 00:30:17,325 --> 00:30:20,005 Speaker 2: to waste any time picking out his outfit. There's nothing 596 00:30:20,045 --> 00:30:23,085 Speaker 2: wasted in his box as well. He's a very lean, 597 00:30:23,645 --> 00:30:27,405 Speaker 2: muscular figure here. There's no extra hair, there's nothing he 598 00:30:27,445 --> 00:30:29,925 Speaker 2: has to think about to take care of himself except 599 00:30:30,365 --> 00:30:33,925 Speaker 2: music and driving this band and achieving that level of 600 00:30:33,965 --> 00:30:34,765 Speaker 2: perfection if he can. 601 00:30:34,885 --> 00:30:37,845 Speaker 1: And there's a certain honesty to a character like that 602 00:30:37,925 --> 00:30:41,565 Speaker 1: as well. I mean, he is diabolical in the information 603 00:30:41,685 --> 00:30:45,685 Speaker 1: he uses to motivate his players sometimes, but you do know, 604 00:30:45,845 --> 00:30:49,525 Speaker 1: as you're saying, what his ultimate goal is, and so 605 00:30:49,605 --> 00:30:51,725 Speaker 1: you know where you stand. It's very black and white. 606 00:30:51,765 --> 00:30:55,725 Speaker 1: If you can't play, to quote my tempo, you're out. 607 00:30:55,845 --> 00:30:58,725 Speaker 1: If you can, you're in. And that's how the landscape 608 00:30:58,765 --> 00:30:59,165 Speaker 1: is with him. 609 00:30:59,205 --> 00:31:01,525 Speaker 2: I said, maybe we could get to the topic of 610 00:31:01,645 --> 00:31:03,805 Speaker 2: perfection and how it relates to jazz. I think maybe 611 00:31:03,805 --> 00:31:05,685 Speaker 2: we can save it for a little bit of bonus 612 00:31:05,685 --> 00:31:10,085 Speaker 2: content on another show. That's Whiplash. It is out now 613 00:31:10,165 --> 00:31:12,485 Speaker 2: in limited release. If you see it and agree or 614 00:31:12,525 --> 00:31:14,565 Speaker 2: disagree with our takes, you can email us feedback at 615 00:31:14,565 --> 00:31:20,885 Speaker 2: filmspotting dot net. A reminder that access to the complete 616 00:31:21,005 --> 00:31:23,485 Speaker 2: film Spotting archive is one of the benefits of joining 617 00:31:23,525 --> 00:31:27,445 Speaker 2: the Film Spotting Family. You get bonus shows, a weekly newsletter, 618 00:31:27,765 --> 00:31:30,965 Speaker 2: early access to events, discounts a lot more. Check it 619 00:31:30,965 --> 00:31:34,365 Speaker 2: out film spotting family dot com. Thanks for listening. This 620 00:31:34,565 --> 00:31:38,645 Speaker 2: conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Good Bye.