Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't. I'm not. You never know stories
Speaker 1: of things we don't know the answer too. Hi there
Speaker 1: this Steve, this is I forgot how we're doing and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. That's okay. Put us together in this little
Speaker 1: room with the squeaky chairs, and well, this is Thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways the podcast energy. Yep, this is the show where
Speaker 1: we try to rationally look at unexplained mysteries, phenomena, weird
Speaker 1: stuff in general. I guess when people have been asking,
Speaker 1: is how we describe the show. So I think that's
Speaker 1: kind of an okay way, wouldn't you say? Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was a no? But the truth, yeah we can. But anyway,
Speaker 1: we were doing something a little different tonight. We're always
Speaker 1: try to mix things up, do things a little differently,
Speaker 1: see how they work. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: we've been talking about is the fact that we're getting
Speaker 1: a lot of suggestions, which is fantastic, and we're finding
Speaker 1: a lot of stories, but unfortunately those stories are kind
Speaker 1: of small. They wouldn't be enough to fill an entire
Speaker 1: show on their own, and we have definitely gotten a
Speaker 1: lot of feedback that people like longer shows than shorter shows,
Speaker 1: So we didn't really want to do just like, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of fifteen minutes twenty minutes shows, because that
Speaker 1: just kind of felt like, that's so fun. But so
Speaker 1: what we decided to do is go ahead and combine
Speaker 1: a couple of stories and run through several in one episode.
Speaker 1: So tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we're talking about holes. Holes
Speaker 1: in the ground, holes in the ground, in the ground. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know, it's it sounds really interesting, but it actually
Speaker 1: kind of is. It totally is. We've we found some
Speaker 1: pretty interesting stories, some good holes. Yeah. So we've got
Speaker 1: we've got three different stories that we're gonna run through tonight,
Speaker 1: and Joe, you're you're gonna start us out. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start out before I start with my main story, which
Speaker 1: is Mills Hole, which some of you may have heard about.
Speaker 1: In my meanderings around the innerwebs. Investigating Mills Hole, I
Speaker 1: stumbled across another really cool hole called the Wealth the
Speaker 1: Well to Hell, and oh yeah I've seen, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: the Well to Hell. I haven't told me about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the Russian scientists, yeah, scientists, And I'm then placed
Speaker 1: in Siberia, drilled a hole that want nine miles down
Speaker 1: and then at nine miles down it hit a cavity,
Speaker 1: and so they were intrigued at what they what they
Speaker 1: what they had come across, And so they lowered some
Speaker 1: temperature sensing gear and and a microphone into the hole.
Speaker 1: So nine miles oh I actually and and and they recorded,
Speaker 1: they recorded the screams of the damned. So, in other words,
Speaker 1: they had found Hell and their their their temperature is
Speaker 1: showing equipment apparently put the temperature in there about two
Speaker 1: thousand degrees anyway, So the well to Hell, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's heard on the internet and ran like wildfire and
Speaker 1: then thankfully died off, except for the one link that
Speaker 1: you managed to find on it. Yeah, yeah, and the
Speaker 1: and the actual the actual recording apparently was taken from
Speaker 1: some other recording wrote some movie soundtrack. Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: fairly terrifying that recording if it's like late at night
Speaker 1: and you're just totally in that mindset where you're buying
Speaker 1: into everything, and you listen to it and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh no, it's the worst thing ever. But obviously obviously
Speaker 1: re let's let's let's talk about the real holes, or
Speaker 1: at least what we believe. Let's talk about, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: real hole, the real the real deal Mells Hole. This
Speaker 1: was a suggestion from one of our listeners, Jennifer. Thanks Jennifer,
Speaker 1: appreciate the suggestion. Uh so, Mells Hole is Uh. The
Speaker 1: story begins in the late nineties when a guy in
Speaker 1: and Mel Waters called into the Art Bell Show. And
Speaker 1: Art Bell used to it was a San Francisco based broadcaster,
Speaker 1: kind of like Clyde Lewis, kind of one of those
Speaker 1: guys that specializes show bigot UFOs all that stuff. He
Speaker 1: would talk about this stuff. So Mel Waters calls in
Speaker 1: and he says, he says that he had he owned
Speaker 1: a piece of property in the middle of Washington, near
Speaker 1: a town called Ellensburg, and he said that there was
Speaker 1: a hole of his property that was about not nine
Speaker 1: ft wide or something like that, surrounded by a concrete
Speaker 1: block wall like like a well would be. And but
Speaker 1: the whole, according to Mel was bottomless. And he said
Speaker 1: he'd dropped stuff in there and you never hear it
Speaker 1: hit bottom. And he said that people around the area
Speaker 1: had been throwing their trash in there for years and
Speaker 1: years never filled it up. Yeah, I know, And then, uh,
Speaker 1: what else did you say? It has some certain magical properties.
Speaker 1: Animals for example, would not go anywhere near it, even
Speaker 1: birds it. It wouldn't end. He said that somebody had
Speaker 1: a dog and his dog died, and so he threw
Speaker 1: the dog down the well, which really I know, and
Speaker 1: what a sound that was, Like, don't bury the dog
Speaker 1: in the yard, now, you can just go throw him
Speaker 1: in with all the other garden. So but anyway, so
Speaker 1: this guy threw his dog into into mills hole, and
Speaker 1: then some time after that he saw the dog again
Speaker 1: or something alive. There's two different versions of it. One
Speaker 1: is that he saw it out in the woods by itself,
Speaker 1: running along like it was chasing something. And another version
Speaker 1: that he saw the dog and he was walking with
Speaker 1: some other person and when he called to the dog,
Speaker 1: the dog wouldn't come to him. Oh. I actually heard
Speaker 1: an even different version of that story that he threw
Speaker 1: it down and like he was sure it was dead.
Speaker 1: He threw the dog down the well, but like as
Speaker 1: the dog was falling down, he could hear it like barking,
Speaker 1: like it had like come back alive and was just falling.
Speaker 1: It must have just been in a coma dog coma well.
Speaker 1: I bet he was feeling kind of regretful at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope. So yeah, yeah, please, yeah, somebody actually they
Speaker 1: were Mel apparently, uh he went in discussion with with
Speaker 1: with our bell was talking about various ways to figure
Speaker 1: out how deep this hole is. He's and somebody actually
Speaker 1: wanted to of somebody called into the show and suggested
Speaker 1: throwing a cat down there and here and so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can hear the cat screaming and owling the whole
Speaker 1: way down until it stopped, and that's when you know
Speaker 1: it hit bottom. But yeah, this is a sensitive bunch. Yeah, yeah, seriously,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think he ever did this. Gentlemen,
Speaker 1: we do not Please, don't any of that at all, no, please, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mel took a path like a roll of lifesavers and
Speaker 1: tied a time to a fishing line, and he reportedly
Speaker 1: lowered the lowered the lifesavers down about fifteen hundred feet
Speaker 1: and then brought him back up and they were intact.
Speaker 1: They weren't wet, so it hadn't obviously hit the water
Speaker 1: table or anything like that. There's not full of water.
Speaker 1: Um and then claims that he U you have a no,
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's wrong. But okay, I also
Speaker 1: like I'm kind of like I'm trying to conceptualize feet,
Speaker 1: like like how like how high do airplanes fly? Usually? Right?
Speaker 1: Like so it's like I don't know, like like a
Speaker 1: like a big football football field is a hundred yards
Speaker 1: the playing surface, not the end zones. There's a hundred yards,
Speaker 1: and there's how many feet in a yard? Three? So
Speaker 1: that would be three hundred feet. Yeah, okay, so we're
Speaker 1: talking according to this, then that is five football fields.
Speaker 1: See that. I'm sorry, I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: because I'm a lady or what, but that does not
Speaker 1: help me at all. Can you get like buildings though,
Speaker 1: like can you reference like a what a building in
Speaker 1: this area is similar? Okay, so for a reference, the
Speaker 1: Empire State building is one tall, so it's a little
Speaker 1: but deeper than the Empire's date building and has not
Speaker 1: didn't hit the water water didn't hit bottom. Uh well
Speaker 1: I also okay, I guess the other thing is that,
Speaker 1: like I don't know that life, like a role of Lifesavers,
Speaker 1: is necessarily heavy enough for me to like once it's
Speaker 1: down far enough me, you know, I don't know that
Speaker 1: I would notice if I was hit nothing but sugar,
Speaker 1: so they would start to dissolve in the water. Sure.
Speaker 1: But but I guess my thing is that, like if
Speaker 1: it hit bottom, I don't know that I would necessarily
Speaker 1: be like, oh yeah, still it's yeah like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is is I I had
Speaker 1: no idea what kind of line he was using. Butt
Speaker 1: in line. It's going to love. It's going to weigh
Speaker 1: more than the Lifesavers themselves, So he could actually, you know,
Speaker 1: he could actually have hit bottom and still have tension
Speaker 1: on the line from all that weight. Right, That's exactly
Speaker 1: kind of what I'm saying, is that it just seems
Speaker 1: like it would be hard to tell, all right, So
Speaker 1: there's there's an issue right there. No, it gets better.
Speaker 1: So after after his unsuccessful experiment with the Lifesavers, he
Speaker 1: got himself a whole bunch more line and he lowered
Speaker 1: He put a supposedly a one pound weight on the
Speaker 1: end of this line, started lowering it down. I just
Speaker 1: feel like he needs to be using more weight. I
Speaker 1: would have come up with a better solution. My solution
Speaker 1: would have been to U turn a radio on, set
Speaker 1: it to transmit like a walkie talkie, and just drop
Speaker 1: it and time and when it when it stops transmitting,
Speaker 1: you know, you hit the bottom. But don't they hit
Speaker 1: a range, Like there's a range that like I remember
Speaker 1: at the kid right walkie talking. I think Joe is
Speaker 1: talking about better walkie talking and what we had as
Speaker 1: a kid quit when I was halfway across the yard. Alright,
Speaker 1: that's fair. They were black and had a little orange
Speaker 1: tip on the end of the radio. Yeah. By the
Speaker 1: time I was a kid, we had like colors and
Speaker 1: like they were good and anyway, Joe so so he
Speaker 1: started lowering this thing down. When he run out of line,
Speaker 1: he would he would tie on a new spool of
Speaker 1: line and keep lowering. So he lowered that thing down.
Speaker 1: He claims eighty thousand feet what okay? Wait, wait, how
Speaker 1: far away is the moon from us? Like? How many
Speaker 1: feet is the moon away from us? Okay, so the
Speaker 1: moon is two hundred forty thousand miles for away from us?
Speaker 1: And miles I don't have a calculator. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: too lazy, It's okay, never mind about the distance to
Speaker 1: the moon. No, no, but eighty thousand feet that's miles.
Speaker 1: I mean that's okay. So I guess, Like another question is,
Speaker 1: like how thick do we calculate the Earth's trust to
Speaker 1: be it's not that thick, right, not on couple, but
Speaker 1: only I mean like eight eight eight thousand feet. Yet
Speaker 1: you're getting there. Yeah, you're getting there, you know. And
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure again what the strength of the
Speaker 1: line he was using was. But at the end of that,
Speaker 1: you would think that the way to the line itself
Speaker 1: would be so much that it would break the line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so anyway, but it gets better though.
Speaker 1: Apparently after he after he publicized the existence of this
Speaker 1: mysterious hole, by the way, there's other stuff going on
Speaker 1: to like like, for example, some people claimed to have
Speaker 1: seen a column of black light coming out of it
Speaker 1: and going up into the sky. Black light as in
Speaker 1: the black lights from the sixties. Uh no, just that
Speaker 1: what they call. I guess he called it anti light,
Speaker 1: like a shadow, but like a column shadow. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: like like an anti flashlight shining out of the hole
Speaker 1: and up into the up to the up in the sky.
Speaker 1: So there are people that have actually been dedicating themselves
Speaker 1: to going out and looking for this thing. All right,
Speaker 1: But before I talk to that, like, I guess I
Speaker 1: should tell a little bit more a male's story. Apparently, um,
Speaker 1: after he brought this to light, the government showed up
Speaker 1: men in black. Yeah it was men in black, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Here come the men in black? Yeah, yeah, And so
Speaker 1: they show up one they show up one day and
Speaker 1: they say, um, and they say, basically, you can't come
Speaker 1: out of your property. There's been a play and crash
Speaker 1: and we're working. And he said, there's there's no evidence
Speaker 1: of a plane crash, but these guys wouldn't let him
Speaker 1: on his property. And eventually he said that they the
Speaker 1: government leased the property from him for two dollars a
Speaker 1: month and this allowed him to Yeah, the nice tidy
Speaker 1: little sum of money and so and gentlemen, you can't
Speaker 1: see the raised eyebrow that I have right now. Yeah. So, uh,
Speaker 1: they least at least the land from him for this
Speaker 1: princely sum. Well, wasn't there like a big caveat that
Speaker 1: one with it? Though? What didn't they say, Okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna lease this land from you for this amount of money,
Speaker 1: but you cannot be on American soil. I've heard that.
Speaker 1: The other one is that he just wanted to move
Speaker 1: to Australia and they've they've sort of facilitated his move,
Speaker 1: but not that they've left the country Australia for a
Speaker 1: couple of years where he engaged in want that research,
Speaker 1: he says. So the impetus for me asking that is because,
Speaker 1: as I'm sure you're about to talk about, as soon
Speaker 1: as l comes back from Australia, you know, the minute
Speaker 1: that that story goes, at least the minute he set
Speaker 1: foot on American soil, his money was all taken away
Speaker 1: from him. All of it was taken away from him,
Speaker 1: and he hadn't said nothing, and he was just trying,
Speaker 1: you know, he had to like get a money order
Speaker 1: from his nephew to like make it back to his property.
Speaker 1: So there's there's like a little more in depth men
Speaker 1: in blackage happening, that weird stuff. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, to conflicting stories about that, obviously, Yeah, he hasn't,
Speaker 1: so I don't know exactly. He claims that the government
Speaker 1: served him with papers and basically sees his property, and
Speaker 1: anybody know if he'd been finding his taxes, I have
Speaker 1: no idea. That's usually a good reason for the government
Speaker 1: to seize your property. I know you have something worth value.
Speaker 1: Nobody nobody actually knows if mel even exists. Apparently, people
Speaker 1: who checked the check the role like the of the
Speaker 1: voter rolls and just the telephone directories and everything else
Speaker 1: for Ellensburg and surrounding area. And they found a record
Speaker 1: of anybody named mel Waters living there at all. Although
Speaker 1: looks be fair. If you're going to call a conspiracy
Speaker 1: show with something like this, maybe you'll want to give
Speaker 1: him a fake name. Yeah. So after he returned, they
Speaker 1: seized his land and then Bell got in a bus
Speaker 1: in Tacoma, Washington, head for Olympia UM. There was an
Speaker 1: altercation on the bus when and the police showed up.
Speaker 1: They asked Mell to give a statement. Uh. Mell wanted
Speaker 1: to have no, wanted to just leave, and the police
Speaker 1: said that they would give him a ride in their van.
Speaker 1: Their van, Yeah, in the in the police vane. So
Speaker 1: he didn't need to get on the bus so you
Speaker 1: could stick around and give a statement. So anyway, he
Speaker 1: gets in the van and that's the last thing he remembers.
Speaker 1: He wakes up twelve days later in an alley in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. He had been beaten. His his molars were missing.
Speaker 1: They pulled his molders. Uh, and there would have woken
Speaker 1: somebody on Yeah, and there was Abdace said he had
Speaker 1: been hooked up to an ivy and he had a
Speaker 1: homemade he was one of his hobbies is making bell buckles,
Speaker 1: and his belt buckle had been stolen. Yeah. And and
Speaker 1: by the way, when he checked his act account for
Speaker 1: all that money the government had big giving him, it
Speaker 1: was all gone. It had vanished. Yeah, A Mel's story gets, uh,
Speaker 1: gets even more strange. And I'm not going to get
Speaker 1: into everything. Because he had Mel had further adventures down
Speaker 1: in Nevada where he found a second hole that had
Speaker 1: similar problems. But here's the let me ask you this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do we know where Mel's hole is? No, there's only
Speaker 1: and this is this is the thing that's kind of mysterious.
Speaker 1: It's like, according to Mel Waters, everybody in the area
Speaker 1: knew of it because they were throwing all their crap
Speaker 1: down it and so but strangely enough, nobody knows where
Speaker 1: it is. There's one guy that lives in the area.
Speaker 1: His name is his name is Red Elk and he's
Speaker 1: claims to be an Indian shaman. I can't he's got
Speaker 1: a white guy named too, but I can't remember what
Speaker 1: it is on the top of my head. But so
Speaker 1: he claims that his father first took him there in
Speaker 1: nine and he's been back there many times. But he's
Speaker 1: also he's also led numerous expeditions to try to find
Speaker 1: the hole, with no success. I was reading a news
Speaker 1: account one of the local papers about a bunch of
Speaker 1: people that went out on a hunt for the whole
Speaker 1: and red Elk took the lead, but they didn't find
Speaker 1: any holes didn't Was it red Elk that did the
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast interview or Coast Coast a m interview?
Speaker 1: Or was it Mel that did that interview? That was
Speaker 1: Mel mill Waters or at least ostensibly, Yeah, melt Waters
Speaker 1: did that. Red Olk actually does exist, because I saw
Speaker 1: I saw a news report on a Washington station about
Speaker 1: Mel's hole. He gave a he gave a little bit
Speaker 1: of an interview. Interesting and yeah it was funny too.
Speaker 1: The he was there on this road out in the woods,
Speaker 1: and and then the news lady that is doing the report,
Speaker 1: he's like, he's like standing there next to the camera
Speaker 1: and she's heading up the road supposedly towards where the
Speaker 1: hole might be, and he's going, you shouldn't go up there.
Speaker 1: It's all, you know, It's all you know. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: why they never found the hole. Is you know red
Speaker 1: Elk is afraid to find the hole. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know so anyway, so we did. Nobody's ever found this thing.
Speaker 1: For all we know it's hyper bowl. Yeah, nobody's found
Speaker 1: the whole. It could be that the government, when they
Speaker 1: had control of it, maybe they filled it in. No,
Speaker 1: you covered it. You could just cover it, right, I
Speaker 1: mean like write like a trap, those like traps in
Speaker 1: the middle of the woods where you just like cover
Speaker 1: it like a net and then like put leaves over
Speaker 1: and put a rug over. They put leaves on it. Nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody will ever find it. What I think they probably
Speaker 1: did is they put a holographic projector inside the hole,
Speaker 1: and it projects what appears to be three dimensional ground,
Speaker 1: so it looks Yeah, you could be standing right next
Speaker 1: to the whole and it just looks like another pen.
Speaker 1: But they also put a weird electrical fence around it,
Speaker 1: so if you like went that way, you would get
Speaker 1: like an uncomfortable electric shocks, and when you would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: they'd not go that way because something's weird there to
Speaker 1: keep people from walking into the hole. Actually it might
Speaker 1: be too. They've got like sort of like an electric
Speaker 1: like an electric eye, trip wire and speakers and when
Speaker 1: you trip that, the speakers go off and they sound
Speaker 1: the brown note, you know, and so you know what
Speaker 1: the brown note is, right? And I feel like to
Speaker 1: can Sam, I'm surrounded by fruit loops, right. I like
Speaker 1: the idea of the brown note. The brown note. But
Speaker 1: that was on an episode of hard hitting documentary episode
Speaker 1: called a South Park And this one note makes people
Speaker 1: poop their pants. And so you're out there and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you you poop your pants, and what
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? You're gonna run back to your
Speaker 1: car and you know, I mean, you're not gonna hang out.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna hang out keep trooping around. You might
Speaker 1: depends on the kind of person you are. So I
Speaker 1: mean that is that it for Mel's hold? Is there?
Speaker 1: Like any people? I know people have been looking for
Speaker 1: it for years, and I believe that who was it
Speaker 1: that suggested this? Jennifer, Yeah, Jennifer, I know she said
Speaker 1: that she went to college in that area and that
Speaker 1: was one of those things, kind of like a snipe hunt.
Speaker 1: They would just go out in the woods looking for
Speaker 1: Mel's hole. Yeah. I mean, if if you believe what
Speaker 1: what Mel Waters said, it's somewhere about nine ten miles
Speaker 1: east or excuse me, west of Ellensburg. So it's not
Speaker 1: a huge area. You could actually you could actually comb
Speaker 1: that pretty well and probably find something. He was telling
Speaker 1: the truth about the direction, or he was good a direction.
Speaker 1: He might be like me who doesn't know north from up. Ye.
Speaker 1: See that's my problem. But the problem here I don't understand. Alright.
Speaker 1: So uh so those of you who still think the
Speaker 1: whole might exist and still want to go out and
Speaker 1: look for it, I've got one piece of advice that
Speaker 1: will really help you there your search down a long ways,
Speaker 1: which is the whole has got to be next to
Speaker 1: a road. The reason for this is mill Waters. If
Speaker 1: you're gonna believe what he says, says everybody was throwing
Speaker 1: their junk in there. So you're not gonna strap your
Speaker 1: old dead refrigerator to your back and you know, hoof
Speaker 1: at like half a mile of the woods to throw
Speaker 1: it in the hole. And so it's got to be
Speaker 1: right next to a road that it doesn't not a
Speaker 1: two lane highway, even not even a little gravel road
Speaker 1: could be just a little mud act. But there has
Speaker 1: to be vehicular access to the whole taking take that
Speaker 1: and uh, you know you don't even need to get
Speaker 1: out of your car to go look promose hole. All right.
Speaker 1: So there is a local geologist whose name is Jack Powell.
Speaker 1: He was cited in a newspaper article, a very recent one,
Speaker 1: is saying he thinks that there he's there is an
Speaker 1: abandoned gold mine in the area and it's not bottomless,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, about three ft deep perhaps, And
Speaker 1: he says that perhaps that's what somebody saw that and
Speaker 1: that's what they think the whole is. But he said
Speaker 1: that he knows of no other holes around. And he
Speaker 1: said also being a geologist, geologist would be the kind
Speaker 1: of person you want to talk to about stuff like this, presumably.
Speaker 1: He said that the problem with the bottomless bottomless well
Speaker 1: is that the deeper down you'd get, the greater the
Speaker 1: pressure of the surrounding, and so it would collapse. Oh,
Speaker 1: the force of the earth, the weight of the Earth
Speaker 1: would would force it to close on itself in the bottom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So yeah, he says, it's oddly the
Speaker 1: scientist is making sense. Yes, he's as it's geologically impossible.
Speaker 1: The other thing is that it's at at some point
Speaker 1: it's going to go below the water table and not Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of impermeable. Yeah. I remember going to a
Speaker 1: latitube and by Mount Saint Helens. It's called a little
Speaker 1: red river. Yeah, and it's close to the public. But
Speaker 1: you know, I have my friends and I have a
Speaker 1: special sneaky way and and anyway. So but that one
Speaker 1: goes out, it goes down for a long way. It's continually,
Speaker 1: it goes continually downward until you get to this point
Speaker 1: where water starts coming in through cracks in the walls
Speaker 1: because it's below the water table. And then you go
Speaker 1: on a little bit further and you get to the
Speaker 1: spot where there's a sort of an underground lake down
Speaker 1: there because the entire thing is filled up with water.
Speaker 1: And you know, so that's not that far down really, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you don't have to get I mean, you don't
Speaker 1: have to get that far down like in eighte Caves
Speaker 1: for instance. That doesn't necessarily go coast right. No, that's
Speaker 1: actually it's actually Helen I'm thinking of I think, see
Speaker 1: okay to yeah, yeah, it's actually it's actually just a
Speaker 1: few miles from this other one that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Little Yeah, so it's just I mean, the thing of
Speaker 1: it is is that you know, in the Pacific Northwest
Speaker 1: we get a lot of rain. Are ground is fairly
Speaker 1: saturated with water, and the caves is not below the
Speaker 1: water table as far as I know. But the water
Speaker 1: it's always wet down there. It's always wet down there
Speaker 1: because you know, the water seeps through just just because
Speaker 1: it rains or whatever. There's always there's always water down there.
Speaker 1: And you know, even when you're crawling into like the
Speaker 1: very deepest bottom ones, you know, it's always wet down there.
Speaker 1: And you know, if if it's just a pit, the
Speaker 1: water is going to collect it. Just water goes places
Speaker 1: and stuff like that will fill. Yeah. So I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, even if it's not, if it's somehow not
Speaker 1: at the water table. Yeah, I just the water that
Speaker 1: whole you hit the water table. It's just part of
Speaker 1: being on Earth. Yeah. Yeah. You think it would have
Speaker 1: been found by with things like what's that website? Google Earth? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we would have found it by now. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I actually got on Google Earth and I looked, and
Speaker 1: I looked and looked and looked, and I didn't see
Speaker 1: a hole. Shocking because it projects black light in the
Speaker 1: camera focus might have blinded the satellite. Yeah. So, actually,
Speaker 1: you know what I think it is is I think
Speaker 1: it's a hole for the lizard people to use. You dude,
Speaker 1: it's the lizard people. I want to talk about the
Speaker 1: lizard pop They're going to steal our water from there.
Speaker 1: The water table has been like decimated. They're my whole
Speaker 1: is obviously proof of this, ready for this. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: the whole bit I want to talk about is Devil
Speaker 1: Kettle Hole or Devil Cattle Falls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's in It's in Minnesota, Okay, the northern Minnesota,
Speaker 1: like pretty close to the border. Yeah, where the mosquitoes are.
Speaker 1: It's that's really specific joke. So it's in Judge C. R.
Speaker 1: Magni State Park, which is this huge state park pretty
Speaker 1: much like on the border of Canada and Minnesota. By
Speaker 1: it's really close to Lake Superior, and um, the falls
Speaker 1: are about a mile and a half from Lake Superior itself.
Speaker 1: I think I think they're like the lowest falls, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that for sure. The brew Ley are
Speaker 1: we gonna say it's the Brule River. Essentially, what happens
Speaker 1: is this river through a lot of series of falls
Speaker 1: drops like feet from where it starts to Lake superior Um.
Speaker 1: This particular fall is like a fifty ft drop. One
Speaker 1: half of it makes this drop, at least one half.
Speaker 1: So you know, at the top of falls, how often
Speaker 1: there will be like a rock in the middle and
Speaker 1: they split off into two different Is this the rock
Speaker 1: in the Loony to cartoons? You remember back trying to
Speaker 1: paddle away from and then that's what he'll be stuck
Speaker 1: in the middle of the falls. It's literally the Loony rock. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: So it divides the brewlet or whatever, how are you
Speaker 1: say it river. I'm just going to not say the
Speaker 1: name of the river anyway. This river into two and
Speaker 1: it's pretty much solid two halves. One half makes the
Speaker 1: fifty ft drop and continues on to the mile and
Speaker 1: a half to Lake superior. The other half drops into
Speaker 1: what's called a kettle or like a pothole kind of thing.
Speaker 1: It's like just a hole, probably a hole in the rock.
Speaker 1: Drops into the hole in the rock and goes who knows, mysterious.
Speaker 1: So we've just got one giant I mean, I'm assuming
Speaker 1: waters pouring, yeah, but that's you know, like it's a
Speaker 1: lot of noise and activity, but the water level never rises.
Speaker 1: It just drops ten feet and then goes somewhere weird.
Speaker 1: So as far as it's called devil Kettle fall, because
Speaker 1: as far as we know, the water goes just straight
Speaker 1: to Hell. I mean really truly, that's like literally, as
Speaker 1: far as we know, it could go straight into Hell.
Speaker 1: It could go into this place that apparently the nazis
Speaker 1: recorded into, like the hole into Hell. Because here's the deal.
Speaker 1: It's apparently an immense amount of water. And I looked
Speaker 1: everywhere and I could not find good statistics on how
Speaker 1: much water like per hour or per year flows down
Speaker 1: this river, how much flow to this kettle, anything like that.
Speaker 1: But everyone I've ever read has said referred to it
Speaker 1: as an immense amount of water, and it just disappears. Uh.
Speaker 1: The standing theory is that it runs underground for a
Speaker 1: while and eventually in peas into the lake or back
Speaker 1: into the river stream, yeah, further downstream or just like
Speaker 1: straight into the lake. But efforts to prove this have
Speaker 1: been like really unsuccessful. Um scientists, and I'm like using
Speaker 1: air quotes here because some people who study this, our scientists,
Speaker 1: some are just drunk hikers. Have dropped you know, things
Speaker 1: varying from vibrant diyes to ping pot like massive amounts
Speaker 1: of ping pong balls, to rubber ducks. Not rubber ducks,
Speaker 1: but logs. And there's a claim that a car has
Speaker 1: been dropped into this thing. How how do you get
Speaker 1: a car into that thing? Well, it's not even like
Speaker 1: how do you get it into that thing? But like
Speaker 1: it's you have to hike to it. I mean it's
Speaker 1: just like a foot trail. So I don't know how
Speaker 1: much I believe the car situation, but time it might
Speaker 1: be they might have like I mean, there might be
Speaker 1: a road that crosses somewhere upstream and they could have
Speaker 1: like you know, tied locks to the car and driving
Speaker 1: it into the river and just floating down stream. That
Speaker 1: seems like an immense amount of effort just to get
Speaker 1: rid of a car. Yeah, so I don't know about
Speaker 1: the car, but definitely logs. And then you know, just
Speaker 1: like natural stuff that goes down the river, twigs, raberry rocks,
Speaker 1: that's a great place to get rid of a body.
Speaker 1: Joe again, like the dumping of bodies, you really wear
Speaker 1: the kid news that this is really far away, so
Speaker 1: like you would have to actively go Yeah, Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: have to get rid of my body somewhere closer, because
Speaker 1: getting a body into a suitcase and onto the airplane
Speaker 1: to fly to Minnesota is like, you know, it's difficulty.
Speaker 1: So no, no worries. I'm not actually going to do it.
Speaker 1: So they okay, so they dumped all this stuff down
Speaker 1: this kettle, right, and literally none of it has resurfaced
Speaker 1: ever ever, so they can't. They don't see if I'm
Speaker 1: coming out somewhere in the lake. No ping pong balls
Speaker 1: aren't mysteriously appearing in Lake Superior. And I can imagine logs.
Speaker 1: Nobody could tell, right, I mean, and that's fair. But
Speaker 1: you know, I guess the other thing that people bring
Speaker 1: up in this situation, right, is that it hasn't backed up.
Speaker 1: There's not like a natural dam that's happened. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be like filtering things, right, It's not
Speaker 1: just like going underwater into just natural water table or
Speaker 1: anything like that. You would think it eventually they crap
Speaker 1: down there that it was clogged the thing. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's you know, this has been around for thousands of
Speaker 1: thousands of years, have been around for a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so's it would have naturally backed up if it were
Speaker 1: filtering this stuff out. Okay, I guess they're they're problems
Speaker 1: with the underground river theory. First, Um, the rock that
Speaker 1: comprises this riverbed is like really really hard, and so
Speaker 1: the underground river theory. Just to make sure I understand
Speaker 1: how this is working. You're saying that it's going down
Speaker 1: and it's hitting basically the water tables. So will know
Speaker 1: there are a couple of theories, and we're going to
Speaker 1: kind of Okay, I just want to understand the und
Speaker 1: People pretty much don't think that it hits the water
Speaker 1: table because it would have backed up in this end
Speaker 1: of dams, so like we would see more water, it
Speaker 1: would have been slower, or like we would see it
Speaker 1: falling into a lake or something like that, or overflowing
Speaker 1: out of the hole. Yeah. So people are pretty much
Speaker 1: not saying that it just hits the water table and
Speaker 1: is in any way. They're saying that it's like a
Speaker 1: river and ostensibly in like all lava tube in the
Speaker 1: place now and the place where this happens where the
Speaker 1: double kettle is, how high above the elevation of Lake Superior,
Speaker 1: is that I think it's only Yeah, well, no, I
Speaker 1: think it's more than it's it's not. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a mile and a half away. I think this is
Speaker 1: the last fall much it's Yeah, I know. I know
Speaker 1: some people that actually explored an underground river in Guatemala,
Speaker 1: as you know, and it's like it took him. It
Speaker 1: was a huge expedition. Yeah. So underground rivers are I think,
Speaker 1: honestly the most solid theory, right, so I kind of
Speaker 1: want to talk about that, okay, Okay, I was just
Speaker 1: trying to understand how that works, right, so that it
Speaker 1: would be through Mostly Mainly, the most viable theory I've
Speaker 1: heard is that it hits it's like a lava tube.
Speaker 1: It's a hole in the ground. Somehow they're flowing down. Okay,
Speaker 1: I can run with that. I'm sorry. Didn't mean that
Speaker 1: there's a river itself, like it continues on as there
Speaker 1: a point in the river where suddenly there's a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of more water in it. Nope, not, as far
Speaker 1: as anyone can tell, there any mysterious rivers that just
Speaker 1: pop out of the ground anywhere nearby. No, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: going to solve this mystery. Yeah. Um, it's in the
Speaker 1: in the in the middle of Oregon. Central Oregon. There's
Speaker 1: a river called the Metolius River, which, in cosmological terms,
Speaker 1: it's just right next door to double scale Falls. So
Speaker 1: the Metolius is really a pretty unique river in the
Speaker 1: sense that most rivers start off that's just little trickles,
Speaker 1: you know, like a larger body, little trickles that turned
Speaker 1: into little streams that turned into creeks and they all
Speaker 1: joined together, and so basically, you know, a bunch of
Speaker 1: little streams come together and form a river. The Metolius
Speaker 1: is unique in that it just pops up out of
Speaker 1: the ground. Sound. It's not composed of a lot of
Speaker 1: little tributaries. There's two big springs and all this water
Speaker 1: just comes pouring out of these springs and heads on downstream.
Speaker 1: So Joe's theory is that somehow this water makes it
Speaker 1: several thousands through a few ranges of mountains, negating all
Speaker 1: laws of physics that we know. Well, have you not
Speaker 1: heard of interdimensional travel? Okay, so let's just go ahead
Speaker 1: and like work, Yeah, let's go Okay. It's interesting though,
Speaker 1: the Metolius is actually kind of the inverse of this river. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really is the first thing that I want to
Speaker 1: bring up with the like underground river theory is that
Speaker 1: the rock that comprises this riverbed is really really hard,
Speaker 1: like rylite and basalt. I think that's how you pronounced that, right, right, Like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I know the salt is super hard. I'm familiar with that.
Speaker 1: Hilight is actually harder than so you can say, but Devin,
Speaker 1: you're you're saying, I mean, maybe there's a fault line
Speaker 1: that crushed the rock into more permeable pebbles, and that
Speaker 1: was fine, and that's totally a thing, right, right, but
Speaker 1: not in Minnesota, not northern Minnesota. The problem is is
Speaker 1: that there's no evidence to suggest a fault line other
Speaker 1: than the fact that ever disappears. It's not just like
Speaker 1: going into super permeable pebbles or anything like that. Does
Speaker 1: that make sense? So the next theory would be that
Speaker 1: there's a lava tube, which do form in basalt. Lava
Speaker 1: tubes form in basalt, But are there any volcanoes anywhere nearby? No?
Speaker 1: So that's the thing, right, is that basalt forms lava
Speaker 1: tubes by flowing down like the slope of a volcano, essentially, right,
Speaker 1: So the shell cools faster than the inside and forms
Speaker 1: a like a more solid Yeah, yeah, what happens is is, yeah,
Speaker 1: they formed, they go down the hills essentially and and
Speaker 1: and that's literally a river of lava like a stream.
Speaker 1: And then as they go along the outside. Cool. What
Speaker 1: happens is eventually they form a crust over the top
Speaker 1: that cools, and that cools faster than the center of
Speaker 1: it in the center. The center continues to flow on out.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's how they're formed. But in this
Speaker 1: particular case, if there's been has there're been any volcanic catholics, Well,
Speaker 1: so the basalt that formed in this area is it's
Speaker 1: I don't remember what it's called. I gotta be honest
Speaker 1: with you, but it's formed by lava oozing out of
Speaker 1: like a fissure and just like it uses out and
Speaker 1: show yeah I did that. I did that. So that
Speaker 1: basalt is like super hard, just sheets. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: any kind of tube system. There's no evidence for any
Speaker 1: kind of tube system. And I think the because I
Speaker 1: read that and I was reading how that kind of
Speaker 1: lava works, and it took me a bit and I
Speaker 1: was like, well, the lava's lava. But yeah, the way
Speaker 1: I would describe it is like, so a fisher is
Speaker 1: just like basically just like a big old cut in
Speaker 1: the earth. Right, So it's a cut that like opened
Speaker 1: up and the blood is like or the lava is
Speaker 1: oozing out, as opposed to like a puncture wound, which
Speaker 1: would form. Would that would you say? That's fairly fairly
Speaker 1: accurately to describe it in like a kind of gross
Speaker 1: term if there's volcanic activity nearby, right, but we don't
Speaker 1: want it. It was like, you know, millions of years ago,
Speaker 1: it was just like a fissure. There wasn't any volcanic activity.
Speaker 1: It was just that like you know, the earth split
Speaker 1: open at one point and it flowed out into this
Speaker 1: big sheeta basically. Yeah, So I guess even if we
Speaker 1: ignore the science of this, right, you know, the problem
Speaker 1: still persists that scientists can't figure out where this water
Speaker 1: is just dumping out, right, you know, they need to
Speaker 1: just dump some massive quantities of oil down and then
Speaker 1: just and I just see where they were all. Well,
Speaker 1: but I mean that's the problem, right, is that they've
Speaker 1: done that with other things that are less harmful, right,
Speaker 1: dies that are you know, I guess ostensibly don't harm
Speaker 1: or ping pong balls, you know, things that particularly if
Speaker 1: you were out in the middle of Lake Superior and
Speaker 1: you're like, Wow, there's a ping pong ball, or like
Speaker 1: there's a couple ping pong balls. You'd probably mention it
Speaker 1: to somebody and you'd be like, yeah, they did that.
Speaker 1: Study cool, it's dumping out into Lake Superior, you know.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of my other problem with this is
Speaker 1: that even if it were by some you know, like
Speaker 1: miracle uh underground lava tube that went underground and it
Speaker 1: didn't even dump out on the shores, right, it dumped
Speaker 1: out like in the middle of Lake Superior. If you
Speaker 1: dump a bunch of die or ping pong balls or
Speaker 1: anything like that and there's flowing down this river and
Speaker 1: it just pops out in the middle of Lake Superior,
Speaker 1: people are going to report things like that. And the
Speaker 1: weird thing is why hasn't this thing plugged up? Right?
Speaker 1: That's down I think could be plugged up. You think
Speaker 1: that would would plug it up event You know what
Speaker 1: I don't understand what they're why they're not doing is
Speaker 1: you know, you could divert that water and let that
Speaker 1: thing up the out and then just head on down
Speaker 1: there with the rope and see what's going on. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's kind of my thing right now. Right there's a
Speaker 1: YouTube video that we should link to of somebody who
Speaker 1: went like part of the way down into this kettle
Speaker 1: and kind of videotaped what's going on, and you can
Speaker 1: see the river hits and it hits on the rock
Speaker 1: and then it flows down. It just kind of looks
Speaker 1: like one of those things where I know it's crazy
Speaker 1: dangerous empirically in my head that it would be a
Speaker 1: dumb idea for anybody to just like walk down that thing.
Speaker 1: But I just want to jump down that thing and
Speaker 1: ride it out like a stupid log ride. You're like
Speaker 1: splash mountain and just see what is going on on
Speaker 1: that you know. It's it's just so surprising with like
Speaker 1: all of the technology that we have with like shockproof
Speaker 1: cameras and things like that, that we haven't just like
Speaker 1: boxed a camera up. We can. We can you know,
Speaker 1: send cameras into the middle of hurricanes, so we know
Speaker 1: we have the technology. We haven't just like throwing a
Speaker 1: camera down there and seeing like what's going on. I have.
Speaker 1: I have two things about this, and what I what
Speaker 1: I found really fascinating was when I was reading about
Speaker 1: how they think the kettle itself formed, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if either of you came across this is basically,
Speaker 1: when water is pouring into a depression, it kind of
Speaker 1: makes a vortex, which essentially makes a water drill, and
Speaker 1: so the water is just drilling that hole out deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper, which is how we got this hole. That
Speaker 1: was and that was kind of the theory that people
Speaker 1: were talking about, is that like it had drilled out
Speaker 1: the really hard ryle rhyle light rhylight into a like
Speaker 1: a slightly less hard basalt lava tube, and that that
Speaker 1: was where everything was going. But I just don't and
Speaker 1: then you know, there's no scientific evidence that. And limestone
Speaker 1: is the rock that's notorious for being easily eroded by water,
Speaker 1: But I don't like the limestones. Limestones. There's not if
Speaker 1: I remember reading correctly, there's not a lot of limestone
Speaker 1: out there, well, not in this area where like a
Speaker 1: couple of thousand miles away from the thing that I
Speaker 1: think about that I wonder about is this thing's been
Speaker 1: there for eons. And one of the things that happened
Speaker 1: in that area a long long time ago was there
Speaker 1: was glaciers scraping along, which is part of how we
Speaker 1: have the lakes, the Great Lakes that part of what
Speaker 1: form them. So I almost wonder, and this is totally
Speaker 1: going on a lamb, but a glacier comes through and
Speaker 1: it scrapes a giant trough out, and then there's some
Speaker 1: kind of volcanic activity that blows across the top and
Speaker 1: fills it up, and so you've got a big void
Speaker 1: the bottom. I mean, I'm totally spitball in here, but
Speaker 1: I'm just using two natural things to explain another natural thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm probably out in left field. Well, you know my
Speaker 1: big problems with that, right, are that geologists have put
Speaker 1: a lot of thought into this thing, and I assume
Speaker 1: that one of them would have thought of that if
Speaker 1: it was a viable Oh no, no, not right. I
Speaker 1: think that I might be the first one to come up,
Speaker 1: and I all thought thinks that, like if right, So
Speaker 1: if you I guess it's like frosting a cake to me, Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: so you've got this crack in your cake and you
Speaker 1: take your frosting and what does it do? Does it
Speaker 1: just gloss right over it? Or does it fill in
Speaker 1: that crack and gloss over it? Doesn't fill the entire crack.
Speaker 1: It feels fills the top. I would say, well, I
Speaker 1: think a lot. Let's okay, I'll let's make a cake
Speaker 1: and confirm this. Yeah, I mean, you know, that would
Speaker 1: just be my And you know, frosting is definitely more
Speaker 1: rigid than like, so if you're going to do like
Speaker 1: a glaze, it definitely fills that, which would be more
Speaker 1: and more accurate comparison. I got it. So I guess
Speaker 1: that's I could see it being just going into a
Speaker 1: cave and coming out somewhere else, because, like I said,
Speaker 1: I knew people who are cavers who explored one of
Speaker 1: these things in Guatemala. But uh, if it's not that
Speaker 1: much of a drop to the lake though, so I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, it's just hard, it's rough. I mean this, yeah,
Speaker 1: this particular cave that they want to because the river
Speaker 1: actual went into the side of the mountain, it just
Speaker 1: disappeared and it came out the other side. So they
Speaker 1: went down in wet suits and with with just tons
Speaker 1: of rope and gears and stuff and throw petons into
Speaker 1: the side of the case because they were vertical drops
Speaker 1: and horizontal and then you have to go vertical drops again. Well,
Speaker 1: and that's what I just want people to do here, right, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean I really, I really think you could solve
Speaker 1: the mystery by um diverting the diverting the water and
Speaker 1: just sending some people down on ropes with wet suits
Speaker 1: and stuff and just go down to ways. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously you know you can't go down too far and
Speaker 1: certainly you know eighty thou feet maybe alright, alright, but
Speaker 1: shall we? Shall we move on? Or did you have
Speaker 1: any more on this? That's all I have. No, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's just it's a mystery. People are stealing
Speaker 1: on our water again, man people. Oh and before I
Speaker 1: forget um, this was a listener's suggestion to Tom, right,
Speaker 1: I think it's been a while anyway, Thanks Tom. Thanks Tom. Okay,
Speaker 1: well now we've got we've got mine, which I cheated.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't pick one hole. I have sixty
Speaker 1: nine hundred of them. I'm sorry, we're only going to
Speaker 1: talk about three holes. Hello. Yeah, well you added that
Speaker 1: other goofy one in the beginning. I stuck to my gun.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well I cheated. We have to talk about it.
Speaker 1: What I found is the band of holes in Peru. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll give you a path on this one
Speaker 1: because it is just basically one giant string of holes.
Speaker 1: What we've got here is it's like I said, the
Speaker 1: band of holes is sixty nine hundred uniform holes in
Speaker 1: the ground there in the Pisco Valley, which is on
Speaker 1: the Nasca Plateau, which is in Peru. Uh and the
Speaker 1: Nasca Plateau people have probably heard about it. That's where
Speaker 1: the Nasca Lines are, those giant lines that are carved
Speaker 1: on the top of a plateau that when you see
Speaker 1: the satellite you see they're like birds and weird stuff.
Speaker 1: That is it the Aztecs that people think about. Those
Speaker 1: The Aztecs were in Mexico. So the Inca Inca, thank you.
Speaker 1: That's that's who it is. So this is in an
Speaker 1: area that's known for doing huge scale things. Yeah, huge scale,
Speaker 1: strange things. Yeah, the Incas did a lot of interesting stuff.
Speaker 1: They did. They did a lot of interesting pointless stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: the this plateau is about to give you kind of
Speaker 1: a reference. If you look on a map and Peru,
Speaker 1: you'll find the town of Piececo. It's about fifteen miles
Speaker 1: giver take east of Piececo. Is where it's at. Is
Speaker 1: that where a Piececo sour originated I don't know. Probably, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's just say yes, alright, alright, somebody out there do
Speaker 1: a google on that. We're too lazy. So the band
Speaker 1: of holes extends for about a mile or so, and
Speaker 1: it's it runs north south and it runs over uneven
Speaker 1: mountain surface. Is it approximately north south or is it
Speaker 1: actually north south? It's approximates, it's not. It's not an
Speaker 1: actual straight line, and they're not a perfectly straight line,
Speaker 1: unlike all the other stuff that's on the top steel.
Speaker 1: The grouping of holes because they're they're drilled into the ground.
Speaker 1: To use the word drilled into the ground inappropriately incorrectly,
Speaker 1: is it's a series of holes. So they can be
Speaker 1: six to ten in a row next to each other.
Speaker 1: It varies between how many across. Yes, yes, absolutely, and
Speaker 1: that can that band of holes can be anywhere from
Speaker 1: twenty to thirty ft across, because the holes themselves are
Speaker 1: typically about six or seven feet across, and anywhere from
Speaker 1: six or se having feet deep to just a few
Speaker 1: inches deep. Here's the weird thing about a few inches deep.
Speaker 1: I was trying to find how people determine that they
Speaker 1: were a few inches deep, and I couldn't find any
Speaker 1: solid science on it, but they look like they're crumbling
Speaker 1: and they're falling apart, and they're kind of collapsing. So
Speaker 1: I think that when people say there are a few
Speaker 1: inches deep, they mean these holes have kind of filled in,
Speaker 1: So all this left is a couple inch depression in
Speaker 1: the ground. In some places, the holes, like I said,
Speaker 1: they're about anywhere between six to ten holes across, and
Speaker 1: they're in a perfectly rigid line. So a set of
Speaker 1: holes directly after to set of holes. Sometimes they start
Speaker 1: to break apart and they widen a little bit. Remember
Speaker 1: I said it went from twenty to thirty feet across,
Speaker 1: So they get a little bit irregular, and they're placing
Speaker 1: and there they start kind of going straight up the
Speaker 1: hill and then they bend and we're talking up the
Speaker 1: upper mountains, so they're kind of going over ridges and
Speaker 1: back and forth. If you were looking out on the map,
Speaker 1: think of it left or right east to west essentially,
Speaker 1: So they and they twist and they turn. So it's
Speaker 1: really weird that it's just this whole series of lines
Speaker 1: that just go up and eventually they come to a
Speaker 1: saddle is the term that I would use in the mountain.
Speaker 1: It's where two ridges are two sections come together and
Speaker 1: form that that V and they stop. That's the end
Speaker 1: of them. Maybe their tools broke. I gotta say and
Speaker 1: courage all of our listeners to go out and look
Speaker 1: at the aerial satellite photos of this, because it's fascinating,
Speaker 1: it really and it's like it looks like a wide
Speaker 1: road from the From the almost it kind of does,
Speaker 1: except that when you get into the when you start
Speaker 1: looking at the satellite imagery and you start looking at roads,
Speaker 1: they're very different because it's this is a series of
Speaker 1: pock marks, is a phrase that I would use in
Speaker 1: the landscape of the mountain, and then a road would
Speaker 1: be nice and smooth. It's kind of it's not really obviously,
Speaker 1: it's not a road. They've been there so long that
Speaker 1: the indigenous people have no idea where they came from.
Speaker 1: The people who live in the region, they just, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: they've always been there. They've just always That's always one
Speaker 1: of the really interesting things to me, because I feel
Speaker 1: like Indigenous people are really good at coming like they
Speaker 1: have lower surrounding things like that, right, and that like
Speaker 1: this is such a massive undertaking that had their people,
Speaker 1: their ancestors created it, had there been any kind of
Speaker 1: ownership of it in their history at all, they would
Speaker 1: have heard about it. And so it's so interesting because
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that means that like the people
Speaker 1: who created this are just like they're gone, they're gone,
Speaker 1: long gone. But they don't even have descendants, right that
Speaker 1: know of it anymore. Yeah, And that's that's exactly. They've
Speaker 1: been there for so long that nobody knows. It's just
Speaker 1: been there there. So it was is it possible this
Speaker 1: is this was a quarrying operation. Maybe they were just
Speaker 1: cutting out rock to using projects. Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: that they would be. I mean, think about it's a
Speaker 1: six or seven foot across hole. So if you're cutting
Speaker 1: a pillar out at places this is at essentially a
Speaker 1: forty five degree angle. Is the mountain face. It seems
Speaker 1: like a bad place to be digging columns of rock out,
Speaker 1: and it seems like you could quarry it somewhere that's
Speaker 1: a little more accessible. Yeah, And also obviously you want
Speaker 1: to quarry is close to wherever you're building your thing exactly,
Speaker 1: and so there's no ruins around there right well, And
Speaker 1: and that's something that we're going to get into that
Speaker 1: is part of one of the theories that I couldn't substantiate.
Speaker 1: But let's just we'll just take the theories from the top. Sure,
Speaker 1: there's a couple, uh some better than others. The first
Speaker 1: one is that people have hypothesized that these were storage
Speaker 1: containers for grain. Just makes exactly zero sense. That you're
Speaker 1: exactly right. No capstones have ever been found. Because if
Speaker 1: you're gonna make a hole in the ground to store grain,
Speaker 1: you want to protect it. You got to remember the
Speaker 1: altitude that we're at, it's pretty dry, and therefore things
Speaker 1: last longer when they're buried in the ground, so you'd
Speaker 1: have a better record of them. No record of grain
Speaker 1: has ever been found in these holes. People have dug
Speaker 1: around and tried to figure it out, and there's you know,
Speaker 1: whatever the local grain is. I'm not it's not wheat.
Speaker 1: But let's just say if they were using wheat, you
Speaker 1: would think you would find wheat seed. Yeah, but like
Speaker 1: and just why why why would you build a building? Yeah,
Speaker 1: or like make it wider? Why it's like very small,
Speaker 1: very long? Well, you would think, you mean, because grain
Speaker 1: is being grown all over the place. If this was
Speaker 1: a typical way of storing it, then you would find
Speaker 1: this whole scattered all hither and yon, it wouldn't be
Speaker 1: in one place in a mile long wye. And at
Speaker 1: the base of this mountain. It is amazing to look
Speaker 1: at the satellite imagery because it is this baron rock
Speaker 1: face and then suddenly lush greenery at the base where
Speaker 1: it opens up. There's just no good reason. There's no
Speaker 1: good reason. And you want to store your stuff in
Speaker 1: like similar climates, you know, like up a mountain, in
Speaker 1: the bottom of the mount Yeah. Yeah, So then people say, well,
Speaker 1: maybe they're individual graves to put people to put to
Speaker 1: bury people in the same thing with the grain. Not
Speaker 1: a single human remain has been found in any of
Speaker 1: the holes. And these are they dug in? What's the
Speaker 1: soil like there? Is it dirt or is it solid?
Speaker 1: They're carving him in a rock face. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess that The only thing I would say is like
Speaker 1: ashes that could have been blown away, But it just
Speaker 1: seems like a lot. But if I'm if I'm putting
Speaker 1: the ashes of my ancestors and the bodies of my
Speaker 1: ancestors into a hole, wouldn't I want to cover them? Well?
Speaker 1: Maybe not. I mean, you know, different cultures have different
Speaker 1: There's the sky burials with stuff like old that we
Speaker 1: literally have no idea where it came from. Who knows
Speaker 1: what those people believed. That's very true, but it's still
Speaker 1: a little weird. Yeah, very Now the next one is
Speaker 1: he next theory even weirder. Uh, And I gotta laugh
Speaker 1: at the internet right now. So one person made mention
Speaker 1: in their article about how it looked like coreing holes
Speaker 1: or pilot holes that will be done for mining to
Speaker 1: see what's in the rock and in the soil. Somebody said,
Speaker 1: and I quote to this Texas Boy, it looks like
Speaker 1: what a drilling rig would do. I do laugh at
Speaker 1: the Internet because that really made it hard for me
Speaker 1: to find new information because every site I started doing
Speaker 1: a find on for the words Texas Boy, because there
Speaker 1: was a lot of prodigious copying and pasting on the internet.
Speaker 1: But it but people are saying, well, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: it's an alien civilization that came to this planet at
Speaker 1: one time and they were doing samples up the mountain
Speaker 1: to see if there was anything in the rock that
Speaker 1: they wanted to use, and they found nothing and they
Speaker 1: left either that they finally found something useful and then
Speaker 1: they minded out and carefully covered it back up, I got. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My problem with that is that like they would have
Speaker 1: done that other places too. They were done all over
Speaker 1: the place and not just in that one spot. And
Speaker 1: that's the huge samples I like. Okay, to be fair,
Speaker 1: I don't know how giant these alien rigs were, right,
Speaker 1: but like that's a huge sample site just be going
Speaker 1: up and like it's not like the dirt is going
Speaker 1: to change in like the four ft in between. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so. Yeah. Those those first three theories, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: pretty well kicked off. Okay, Okay. The next one says
Speaker 1: that it was created by an ancient civilization. Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: but for what we don't know, huh. And here is
Speaker 1: why everyone loves to point out when they are looking
Speaker 1: at it, that we've got the Nasca Peninsula and we've
Speaker 1: got Machu Picchu, which is relatively close to this area.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly, but I'm just saying in the
Speaker 1: region there like the hugest of the area's let's just
Speaker 1: I don't know how many miles, but let's not worry
Speaker 1: about that. But there was a lot of really intricate
Speaker 1: building going on at that time. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that people point out is you remember that. And
Speaker 1: I know I showed you two is and everybody who
Speaker 1: looks at the satellite images that saddle where the whole
Speaker 1: the band of holes suddenly ends to me in the imagery,
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell if it was just rock outcroppings or
Speaker 1: it almost looked like there was some spots of sections
Speaker 1: of holes. But this outcropping, the saddle almost looks like
Speaker 1: a slow up of the mountain came down. And right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are images out there where people will say, look
Speaker 1: at this piece of rock. It looks black in this
Speaker 1: section of rock, which is hundreds of feet across, and
Speaker 1: they're saying it looks blackened, as if there was an
Speaker 1: explosion or maybe maybe alien landing site and they just
Speaker 1: burned it with their rockets. Right. Uh, so I showed
Speaker 1: you two. There's no blackening. I'm using air quotes. You're
Speaker 1: blackening of the soil. I'm afraid. I think that's actually
Speaker 1: a little bit of photoshopping. I think maybe somebody did
Speaker 1: some contrast adjustments and just made it look what they
Speaker 1: wanted to look like. But they're also in those same articles,
Speaker 1: there's another image they show of these blocky, ruinous structures.
Speaker 1: It looks like blocky, ruinous structures and kind of ravines
Speaker 1: or carve outs in the mountain. I couldn't find that.
Speaker 1: I looked around, I looked all in that area. I
Speaker 1: spent probably an hour combing across the map. I couldn't
Speaker 1: find it. But people say, well, based on the blackening
Speaker 1: and this ruined city that we find, we think that
Speaker 1: it's similar. It's the same culture that that built Machu
Speaker 1: Picchu and the Nasca lines. But I can't finding that.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if that's in the same area
Speaker 1: or how zoomed in somebody was. It really raises a
Speaker 1: lot of red flags for me. Have you done did
Speaker 1: you do any looking for archaeological sites in Peru see
Speaker 1: if the any of the because I mean obviously these
Speaker 1: things that there were ruins, they would be there would be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and that was exactly I couldn't. I couldn't find it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't find it as I looked around. I again,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid that I think that because here's what would
Speaker 1: happen is people would show that image of this supposed
Speaker 1: ruined site and then Machu Peachu, and they would show
Speaker 1: how the structures, the squares, the buildings and the stones
Speaker 1: were kind of similar, but I could never find him.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if it's not invention finding
Speaker 1: what you want to find. Yeah, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: point a finger and say somebody's outright lying, but I
Speaker 1: couldn't find it to back it up. So I I
Speaker 1: worry about that that this whole it's it was a
Speaker 1: city by an alien civilization that then was bombed at
Speaker 1: an ancient civilization, which I read a really interesting article recently,
Speaker 1: which I will definitely be talking about with you guys
Speaker 1: at least, and hopefully we'll be able to formulate a
Speaker 1: show out of it about this whole ancient civilization, ancient
Speaker 1: anything aliens kind of. But it was very, very interesting.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, we've talked about this before,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we will continue to talk about the
Speaker 1: fact that there's strong proof of highly intelligent ancient cultures.
Speaker 1: Even in North America. There's the Clovis culture, There's like,
Speaker 1: you know, cultures that we are we hardly have any
Speaker 1: record of it all. Yeah. Absolutely, they're just getting civilization
Speaker 1: going back a long long time and they're just so
Speaker 1: old though we don't have But I think that this
Speaker 1: sort of thing really degrades that argument, you know, it
Speaker 1: just it's looking for some stuff that doesn't exist, and
Speaker 1: it just it always makes me really sad when people
Speaker 1: trying to make these claims, because it's like you're really
Speaker 1: just like weakening the argument because you're just looking for whatever.
Speaker 1: And of course, like a satellite image, you zoom in enough,
Speaker 1: it's gonna get picks. Late enough, you're gonna be like, oh, look,
Speaker 1: totally rock outcropping like square buildings. No, it's pixels. Calm down.
Speaker 1: But also it could not be. But there is one
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would say theory, but a
Speaker 1: fable that supposedly explains the band holes. And I can't
Speaker 1: find anywhere that says that this fable is in X
Speaker 1: record or Y record. I can't. I can't lock it
Speaker 1: into where it came from. But there is a fable
Speaker 1: that people say explains why the holes are there, and
Speaker 1: maybe it is from the indigenous people. But Devin, if
Speaker 1: you don't mind, could you read the paple for us,
Speaker 1: since it's a quick one. It's yeah, I can, I
Speaker 1: can read it. Okay, everybody ready for storytime? Story Time
Speaker 1: thousands of years ago in a valley, in a place
Speaker 1: that we now called Peru, there lived a large community
Speaker 1: of nymphs. For a long time, they lived happily among
Speaker 1: the trees and rivers, until one year there was a drought.
Speaker 1: The revers started to dry up and the trees began
Speaker 1: to die. The nymphs knew that they had to make
Speaker 1: an offering to the rain god, and they knew what
Speaker 1: he loved the most was the music. What they couldn't
Speaker 1: figure out was how to get the music on the
Speaker 1: earth to reach the guy's above where the rain guy lived.
Speaker 1: They tried singing, but their voices were not loud enough,
Speaker 1: and neither were their musical instruments. They tried making bigger
Speaker 1: and louder instruments, but nothing worked. Finally, one young nymp
Speaker 1: had an idea. She began digging a big hole in
Speaker 1: the ground, and once she was finished, she stretched several
Speaker 1: long reads tightly over the surface. When she plucked the reads,
Speaker 1: the sound produced was louder and more magical than any
Speaker 1: of the other musical instruments in the world. All the
Speaker 1: other nymphs followed her lead, and within a few hours
Speaker 1: the whole valley was covered in large hole holes reads
Speaker 1: stretched over their surfaces. The nymphs began to play their
Speaker 1: new instruments together, and for hours and hours they produced
Speaker 1: one beautiful melody after another, till the music reached all
Speaker 1: the way up into the skies. At last, the rains
Speaker 1: came and they lived once again in peace. To this day.
Speaker 1: The large holes can be seen in the Pisco Valley
Speaker 1: in Peru. Wow. And evidently the moral of that story
Speaker 1: is creativity can help you through a tough challenge. I
Speaker 1: guess so. So has anybody ever tried to replicate that
Speaker 1: by stretching large reads over the holes and seeing I
Speaker 1: think could play music just like jumping on in the
Speaker 1: holes over and and if they could do it, nothing
Speaker 1: I know of. So, but basically, in the I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's as far as it goes. We don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're a mile or a couple of
Speaker 1: miles long, this band of holes. It meanders up the
Speaker 1: mountain until it disappears, and we have no idea why
Speaker 1: they're there. You know, it seems like the people in
Speaker 1: that area seemed to like to create stuff that would
Speaker 1: be visible to from the eye of God, like the
Speaker 1: NASCAR lines, you know, all those all those things that
Speaker 1: they did, right, the men and mysterious creatures, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean they created those because they wanted to, you know,
Speaker 1: create this piece of art that God could see up
Speaker 1: in heaven. And so this might be kind of in
Speaker 1: line with the same sort of things that they wanted
Speaker 1: to create something that would be visible from heaven. And
Speaker 1: maybe this was their first attempt at it, and they
Speaker 1: realized that the series of holes, it's like stipling in art.
Speaker 1: You know, you do a series of dots and they
Speaker 1: do another series of dots, and it kind of looks
Speaker 1: like that. But maybe they figured out that that is
Speaker 1: way too much effort rather than just digging a shallow trend.
Speaker 1: It was something I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this one's the head scratcher, that kind of And you know,
Speaker 1: you guys know me well enough to know that I
Speaker 1: always have like a theory that I really like. But yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the other interesting things about it is when
Speaker 1: you look at those things to the satellite photographs, is
Speaker 1: that they go along in this in this perfect in
Speaker 1: these perfect rows, and then they'll stop and there'll be
Speaker 1: a break. Uh, not not too huge of a break,
Speaker 1: but it's very visible. They say, A one line of holes. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a couple of lines of holes are missing, and then
Speaker 1: they start up again, and they keep going and nets again.
Speaker 1: That's kind of a mysterious thing. Yeah, it's it's obviously weird,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a weird. But that, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: is the whole story. I've been hanging onto that all week. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: but they have have they dug down any deeper to
Speaker 1: see if there's anything underneath these things, not that I'm
Speaker 1: aware of. I don't think that they've actually dug down
Speaker 1: deeper than the holes. I imagine that they're kind of
Speaker 1: never protected site and they just don't let, you know,
Speaker 1: regular old Yahoo's hop in there with a shovel and
Speaker 1: start digging. I mean, okay, regular old Yahoo's, but like
Speaker 1: we're regular old Yahoo's. Yeah, but like, yeah, archaeologists must
Speaker 1: be fascinated by this, right, I would think so, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. I don't know, it's just yeah, archaeologist,
Speaker 1: I want to go down there and do some digging,
Speaker 1: or at least you go down there with metal detector there,
Speaker 1: some ground penetrating radar stuff like that and see what
Speaker 1: you can figure out. Yeah, that'd be a good idea. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well that that Ladies and Gentlemen. Is the end of
Speaker 1: this particular series for the show. I hope you like
Speaker 1: three in a row. Let us know what your thoughts are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you like them? Uh, now all the information about
Speaker 1: these stories and be on the website. That website, as always,
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the show there, or you can go ahead and leave
Speaker 1: a comment if you want to talk to us about stuff.
Speaker 1: You can always find our shows on Stitcher, so if
Speaker 1: you didn't get a chance to download it, you can
Speaker 1: just stream it right off of any mobile device. We're
Speaker 1: also on Facebook, so we've got our Facebook page so
Speaker 1: you can find us and like us. We've also got
Speaker 1: the group, which still didn't have a lot of activity,
Speaker 1: but it's there. Folks want to chat, and of course,
Speaker 1: if you want to go ahead and send us an email,
Speaker 1: please by all means do email address is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com. Obviously, to tonight's stories came
Speaker 1: out of listener suggestions, which is fantastic. And uh, is
Speaker 1: there anything else that I've been missing? I feel like
Speaker 1: we have some listener mail. Uh, well, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: any emails that have backed up. Oh well, okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: We have our like an iTunes review that I really
Speaker 1: liked that I wanted to read. Oh I haven't been
Speaker 1: on I've looked at iTunes in a while. Oh well
Speaker 1: I'll read it. That's fine, fine, fine, fine, okay. So,
Speaker 1: as you know, being an iTunes review, it's like pretty anonymous, right,
Speaker 1: but it's titled Overheard Conversations at mcmanimums. That says, if
Speaker 1: you've ever finished off a ruby in the setting Portland's Sun,
Speaker 1: you may have heard the perky, educated female, the excitable hipster,
Speaker 1: and the more laid back older gentleman conversing intelligently on
Speaker 1: numerous subjects while having a good time. This podcast hits
Speaker 1: it all. I've been a long time Mysterious Universe listener
Speaker 1: and thinking sidewits hits those subjects while feeling like you
Speaker 1: just walked in on your old friends talking enjoyable, friendly
Speaker 1: and a wide range of topics, which I just I
Speaker 1: love this. I think, like, not only this person is
Speaker 1: like from our area, right, he's calling me perky and educated,
Speaker 1: which I long is this a guy or a girl?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't tell it just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just assume he on the internet. Exactly assume she
Speaker 1: but I guess. Okay, anyway, so yeah, this person is educated,
Speaker 1: so and you know I just what um okay, so
Speaker 1: you're the educated young lady Perkey and cadd and Joe
Speaker 1: is what the older laid back, laid back older gentlemen.
Speaker 1: So that leaves me the decitable hipster. Well okay, alright,
Speaker 1: so I admit that I'm excitable, and you know I
Speaker 1: I wear cool hats when you're what I've been doing.
Speaker 1: I've been doing that since before it was cool. But crap,
Speaker 1: and you drink. Maybe are your graphic designer. You don't
Speaker 1: wear skinny pants? So no, I don't wear Okay, no,
Speaker 1: I I do that. That is a great review and
Speaker 1: I really enjoy that. Yeah, that's for anybody who's knows
Speaker 1: Portlands or mcmanimons. That is a spot on description of
Speaker 1: what I guess this show is the person who wrote that,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I guess that's fantastic. That's right.
Speaker 1: You were saying at the top of the show that
Speaker 1: like people were asking for a description of what we are. Boom.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'm going to go around saying
Speaker 1: I'm an excitable hitster and I'm not older, and I'm
Speaker 1: not really a gentleman, all right, I guess the description
Speaker 1: applies to me and me only. Alright, perky educated young lady.
Speaker 1: There we go, all right, ladies and gentlemen. Well, that
Speaker 1: is the end of what we've got do. Let us know, though,
Speaker 1: if you like the Today's Show, if you like having
Speaker 1: a number of smaller stories packed into one episode, we
Speaker 1: we'd like to try these things out, so let us
Speaker 1: know what you think. That having been said, we're going
Speaker 1: to call it a night, So thanks a lot. We'll
Speaker 1: touch you next week. It's the lizard people, I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: stealing our water. Stupid lizard people.