WEBVTT - Life the Game 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.360 From how Stuff Works dot com. This is the stuff 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:11.239 of life. Welcome to the Stuff of Life. I'm your host, 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:15.200 Julie Douglas. Does life ever feel made up to you? 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.600 Like if you squint hard enough, it could all pixelate 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.440 before your eyes? And that, beyond a few guiding principles 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.520 like building up our resources, finding shelter, and protecting our 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:30.240 limited lifespans, that everything else is up for tweaking, that 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.200 we can create and demolish our lives several times over. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.640 And did these ideas begin to form in the womb 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.440 the time when we were surrounded by light and dark shadows, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.760 mysterious sounds, and strange taste. After all, it was the 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:51.240 first virtual sensory playground we ever knew, a reality external 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:56.760 to us, filled with possibilities. We just needed a storyline, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.120 a narrative, to gather up the sensations put into ideas 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:08.000 and then find a purpose a quest. Even in this way, 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.679 you could say that life is just a game, one 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.560 that we're born into. My name is Sadie and I 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:19.080 like to play Minecraft. I'm seven years old. I just 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:24.800 like how the the natural terrain makes it feel like 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:30.240 real life, except there's not like the other shapes except 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:36.639 there's squares and circles, but um, I like it because 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:44.040 the natural terrain is just it's just outstanding. In this episode, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.759 we look at how we create games within the game 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.720 of life. We talked to an app developer about using 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.840 data to level up and meet new challenges. We visit 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.200 a game design company and find out how the wild 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.520 world of the multiplayer online battle arena works. And we 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.160 check in with my house to works coworkers, two of 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.920 them World of Warcraft veterans, about the allure of stepping 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.280 into another universe. But first we look into the idea 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.440 of running our lives like a game. Do you ever 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:22.679 feel like in real life you sometimes are playing a game. Yeah, sometimes, 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:30.360 except it's kind of more easier to control yourself in 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:36.359 real life or the game in real life. Some would 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.280 say we're predisposed to engage in gaming to better control life. 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.200 Think of all the ways we're participating in a kind 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.360 of game of data, albeit unintentionally. There's the scoring system 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.200 of social media, where the more followers and the more 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.120 likes to the thoughts that you distribute to your followers, 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.680 the greater the reward to your ego. And then there's 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.760 the more mundane stuff like building up your reward points 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.960 on airline carrier for some future adventure you imagine you 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.280 might have. The thing is that some of us will 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:10.320 gain our lives no matter what. For instance, Ben Franklin 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.640 might have been the first life logger, the first person 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.720 to try to evaluate every aspect of his existence. And 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.480 for the Ben Franklin's among us, they're living in the 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:25.000 golden age of information. Does this movement called quantified self 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:29.799 that is made up of people who already tracking lots 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.400 of these things about their life and trying to define 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.760 insights and correlations kind of like we're doing. That's Josh Sharp, 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.200 the co founder of the app exists. This is a 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.400 personal analytics platform that collects all of the data that 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.880 you're already tracking about your life and tries to find 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.760 trends and insights in that data. So we track things 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.440 like your steps and your sleep, events that you have 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.160 on during the day, your productivity, social media stats, even 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:03.760 the weather, and then we can find relationships between these 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.640 things and how they affect your habits and what happens 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.800 during your day. The app also has a mood component 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.400 that asks you to rate your day from one to five, 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.200 along with a few notes that you can jot down 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.679 about the specifics, and this is where some pretty interesting 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.679 insights arise when the app analyzes the data and finds 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:26.120 correlations and then allows you to be a detective. So 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.200 in terms of mood, I have insights that I have 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.040 a better day when I have more events on and 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.120 when I get more steps, it's likely to be something 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.880 like going to the theater or going through to a 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.120 concert or having coffee with friends rather than something work related. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.000 So I know that when I'm out doing things and 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.159 seeing people, combining that with the steps correlation, I also 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.160 mentioned that's what makes me have a better day, and 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.480 that's interesting to me because as an introvert that works 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.119 from home, I'm not seeing people a lot of the time, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.640 and I'm often not motivated to make the effort to 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.520 go out and do that. So it's quite powerful to 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.440 have that reminder you should go out and do stuff more, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.799 you should see people. It will make you happier. There's 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.000 even the ability to see what sort of correlations emerge 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.080 from the music you listen to. If I want to 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.640 be more productive, I have a correlation that I listened 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.560 to more Radiohead and more Ryan Adams when I'm more productive. 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.320 I don't know how Ryan Adams would feel about that. 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.320 More generalized findings are that people tend to reap themselves 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.200 happier on Fridays and Saturdays, but Sunday and that's more 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.480 of a so so day. By the time people are 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.920 rating their moods on Sunday night, they're dreading and going 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.400 back to work on Monday. And we actually can see 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.120 from from our data across all of our users that 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.679 people have the worst day of the week on Mondays 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.960 and Tuesdays. That's not to say that we're all going 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.279 to have crappy Mondays and Tuesdays, only that statistically the 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.400 odds are fire for it. And while all this information 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.719 is intriguing, Josh Sharp found that it's the mood aspect 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.120 to the app that's most popular with users. This ability 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.200 to build out a story about their day. And we 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.560 weren't really sure how how well this would work because 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.080 it's the one thing that you have to do manually. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:21.960 We can't grab this style from anywhere else. You have 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.599 to tell us how your day was. And it turns 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.320 out that it's a really powerful habit. People really like 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:29.960 reflecting on their day at the end of the day 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.280 and picking this writing for whether the day was okay 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.400 or good or great. Um, And so we found that 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.320 this is kind of built up a habit for many users, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.120 but they'll enjoy reflecting on the day at the end 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:49.680 of the day. Well, some of us use data to 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.480 build reality and feel empowered. Some of us use data 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:59.560 to unlock skills and achievements in a parallel world. I 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:05.640 just think about like, um, if oh, let's say, um, 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:12.040 I'm hiking through a jungle and I discover a jungle tempole, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:18.120 I feel really accomplished because those things are kind of rare. 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:26.840 And yeah, so actually trying to really were Is there 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.720 anything else that we haven't covered here that you would 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.720 like to talk about Minecraft that you want people to know, Um, well, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.240 how to make an iron golem? The Minecraft golem is 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.800 an imposing figure, an attribute it shares with another gaming archetype, 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.160 the tank. Some players are going to choose a character 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.520 who's more defensive and tanky, and their job is to 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.280 suck up damage from the other team. That's Todd Harris, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.800 co founder and CEO of High Res Studios, a game 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.240 to elopment company that specializes in games like Smite, which 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.480 uses a third person multiplayer online battle arena. He's describing 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.680 one of the archetypes that a player can take on 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.200 when joining a team. Someone else on the team is 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.520 going to be more aggressive and maybe be able to 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.240 do a lot of damage, but they're going to be 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.360 pretty fragile, more of a glass cannon it's called in gaming, 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.880 where they need protection of their teammates, but they're going 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:26.840 to be able to output a lot of damage. And 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.360 so just like a game like basketball, where you have 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.000 specializations between the center and the guard and you probably 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:38.760 can't switch those players, people over time developed these specializations 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.800 and at the very beginning of the match, they will 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.200 within the match lobby call out their role. They're saying, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.880 I'm going to play support, or I'm gonna play jungle, 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.240 or I'm going to take the mid lane, and the 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.240 community knows that the other roles have to be filled 0:08:55.559 --> 0:09:01.200 if they want the best chance to win. For a 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.400 little context here, Smite is based on ancient myths. Players 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:10.160 can take on the visage of seventy five different mythical beings, gods, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.800 and goddesses from around the globe. You could be a 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.400 tank like Athena or Hermes, or a hunter like Egyptian 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.640 goddess Nief. Once they have their roles, and let's say 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.800 I'm going to be more of a tank. I'm going 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.640 to be kind of a more supportive character with a 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.280 lot of health but not be able to do a 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.360 lot of damage. Well, now within the game, there's going 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.960 to be you know, ten to twenty different characters. I 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:38.680 might choose to fulfill that role. I'm really good at 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:44.720 the character Sylvanas. He's a tree god who was a 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.480 small character inside of a giant tree, and he has 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.160 four abilities that have been designed to be consistent with 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.200 his lore, with his mythology, but makes sense within our 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.680 universe and our game rules, And so I will have 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:04.360 had to have mastered those four abilities and work in 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:09.400 conjunction with my teammates who also have four distinct abilities, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:16.880 and then go up against another team. If you're already 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.560 seeing a matrix of characters, players and skill levels beginning 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.680 to form, then it's easy to understand why this kind 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:28.320 of game requires something called a matchmaker. Behind the scenes, 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.880 we have software that's called the matchmaker, and its job 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.880 is to make sure that your group of five is 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.640 evenly matched as evenly as possible with another group of 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.840 five it knows every game that you played, how many 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.960 you won, how many you lost, and even whether you 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.480 want or lost, what your contribution level was. And matchmaking 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.360 is very simple if it's a one versus one game, 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.040 but when it comes to a team game, it's much 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:03.439 more complicated because you have to parse out the individual 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.800 skill level combined with the team and what if out 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.560 of the five people on the team, two people play 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.960 together all the time and they were matched with another 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.480 three people that play together all the time versus three 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:20.199 people who are randoms. So there's a lot of both 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:24.800 math and really machine learning algorithm around what makes a 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:30.760 good match. Most players are aware that the matchmaker is 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.400 running behind the scenes, but not I'll realize the amount 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.000 of world building that goes into every one of the 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:41.119 characters that they play. Take the Egyptian goddess Nith. Fifteen 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.000 different people will contribute to her character, beginning with a 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:48.280 researcher who constructs her mythology explore the whole universe. Then 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:53.280 once that's isolated down, a three D modeler is actually 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.160 going to construct the geometry. It's basically like digital sculpting, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.040 and most of those people have sculpting backgrounds. Then in 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.600 an artist is going to do the texture work and 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.000 actually think of it as painting on the colors and 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.120 the materials of the character. Where's their skin, where's their 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:14.000 cloth and fabric, where's their metal? What colors are going 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.320 to be presented? How is that consistent with the mythological 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.360 pantheon and feels like it fits within the family. Then 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.439 a rigger is going to get involved. Who's going to 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:30.720 put virtual bones and take that static sculpture and make 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.680 it so that it can be manipulated by the next phase, 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.320 which is an animator who's going to be breathing life 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:41.600 into the character and doing key frame animation for every attack. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:48.520 Then it goes on and on and on and just like, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.120 this is not the sort of game that's put together casually. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.720 It's not the kind of game that's played casually. It's 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.840 very strategic, but very fast paced. I say, it's like 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:02.160 speed chess played in a team format. And that's the 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:08.520 level of thinking and teamwork required to play these games, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.400 which is why for people that are playing them within tournaments, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:18.120 I mean, they're spending tremendous time mastering the game. I 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.480 mean there are people out there whose full time job 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.319 is playing Smite and they're earning a living doing that, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.080 being watched by other people and um and earning a 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:34.319 full time living through a combination of prizing, companies sponsoring them, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.480 people watching their own content on YouTube and Twitch and 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.679 monetizing that, and it really has become a whole new 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.440 career path of being a professional gamer. To give you 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.920 an idea of Smite's reach, consider that hundreds of thousands 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.120 of people play it on a daily basis, and according 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.600 to Todd Harris, there are fourteen million registered accounts, meaning 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.640 fourteen million people have played it at least east once. 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.880 It's a lifestyle for a lot of folks, so they're 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.160 not just playing the game, they're spectating, watching other people 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:11.040 on YouTube, they're doing cosplay, dressing up like their favorite character, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.040 and really um. For people who get attached to a 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.400 game or set of games, it is a big part 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.480 of their identity and their lifestyle. What keeps people engaged, though, 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.360 is the ability to inspire a state of flow in 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.600 the player. N Hi Chick sent me High is one 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.680 of the founding fathers of positive psychology, and he was 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.720 interested in exploring flashes of intense living against the dull 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.640 background of everyday life. He called this a state of flow. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.600 In his studies, he found that people who dipped into 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:46.160 flow were happier than their non flow counterparts. But there 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.200 have to be certain conditions met in order to engage 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.240 and flow, like a clear set of goals, a self 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:58.080 contained universe, immediate feedback, a manageable challenge not too hard, 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.320 not too easy, and a sense of troll over the situation. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.040 And these are the kinds of conditions that games deliver 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:10.200 in spades. And though would it be easy to say 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.760 that games like Smite are successful just because they inspire flow, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.320 but they forced players to find their edge, the truth 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.400 is is that players find themselves in the midst of 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.800 a shared experience. On the one level, of players have 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.640 a meta relationship with the game designers, who continue to 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.760 be blown away at the players emergent behaviors that they 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.359 played the characters in ways they could have never imagined. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.520 And then there are the players charging forth together in lockstep, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.400 speaking a coded gaming language transported to another universe, informing 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:48.280 relationships in that universe. I told Julie the other day 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.360 that I'm a recovering World of Warcraft addict, uh and 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.360 I have been. I've had my all, my chips and 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.600 I've been clean for I think five years. That's not 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.720 how long I have to hear go to the same groups, 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:05.840 set around and drink coffee at Share War Stories. I'm 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.840 Christian Seger. I am one of the co hosts of 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.120 Stuff to Blow Your Mind and Right for Brain Stuff 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:12.880 and several of our other video shows here at how 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.960 Stuff Works. And I am Terra c. V Wilson. I 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.360 am co host of Stuffy miss in History Class, and 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.560 I'm also the editorial director of how Stuff Works dot com. 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.920 Christian and Tracy have been steeped in gaming since childhood. 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.160 I've been playing games like role playing games since i 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:33.040 was a little kid. Uh And it's so gaming has 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.440 always meant to me like groups storytelling, That's what I've 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.280 always connected it with. Like when you're playing with other people, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.800 you're you're like creating an experience together, but you're also 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.720 sort of telling a story together. And that's what I 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.920 love about it. I've been playing since I was a kid, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.320 and playing role playing games since I was a kid. 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.560 But I was really playing like the single player old 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:57.160 Sierra games. Oh yeah, like Kids Quest, King's Quest, all 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.760 like all of those. I was really really into you 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:04.200 as a kid, but I was a deeply socially awkward kid, 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:08.399 and I also lived, uh and where we lived was 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.399 kind of rural, and so it was kind of a 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.800 whole to get to anybody's house to play with them, 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.840 And so I did a lot of very solitary playing 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.280 with all these video games that were kind of a 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.480 way of escape. They tied to a lot of things 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.560 that I really liked about reading, because I was also 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:26.879 really really into reading books, and so it was like 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.440 I was playing in the story and that was awesome. 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.679 And it wasn't until I became an adult that I 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.960 started playing things that were more of a multiplayer situation 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.760 and it became like a group social activity to play 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.080 World of Warcraft together as an adult. Gaming provided a 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.439 different benefit to Christian, one he can identify now that 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.480 he's had time away from World of Warcraft. I think, like, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.840 now that I look back on it, like the relaxation 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.200 of feeling like I had control over something in my life. Right, Like, 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.199 so the outside, like real world is so chaotic and 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.199 difficult to understand sometimes times, and at the time, I 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.360 was in grad school, so I was like overwhelmed all 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.639 the time with this this information that was getting poured 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.359 into me, and it was the only way I could 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.280 relax and be like I have control over this, Like 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.200 if I do this particular task this many times, then 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.320 I know what the result is going to be. And 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.240 I it had like a sort of cause and effect 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.720 correlation that I didn't feel like I had in real life. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.720 And sometimes I would just do stuff that didn't even 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.280 have any like consequence to it, like for hours, like fishing, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.800 Like I would just go fishing in World of Warcraft 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.480 and just sit there and just catch fish. I had 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.000 the I had the fishing title, the one you got, Yeah, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.919 and I won the Stengel Thorne Vale fishing things and 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.120 I had the fishing fishing poles like all of those things. Yeah, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.480 I thought it was the best. Like I was just like, oh, 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.920 this is so relaxing in the way that I'm sure 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.600 that many people, especially outdoorsmen, like go and fish for 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.119 relaxation in the real world, but for me, it was 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.919 like on my laptop in my living room. For Tracy, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.359 gaming transcends the road aspects of day to day life. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.560 A lot of the stories that we read as kids 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:11.119 are about people are overcoming something, and I for a 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.120 lot of folks, when you grow up into adulthood, your 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.160 life is just kind of boring. Like your obstacles are 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.960 things like paying your rent and buying food, and those 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.960 are legitimate things to be concerned about, but you know, 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.199 they don't have the kind of weight that a lot 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.280 of the things that we are used to reading about 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.879 as heroic. UH. And so when you get into a 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.040 video game and you get to go do something, even 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:33.880 if it doesn't seem like something big, but it's something 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.880 different and it's something that seems important, that can be 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.080 an awesome thing to get to feel like you're achieving 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.679 when your real life is achieving things like showing up 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.120 to work on time and paying all of your bills 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.960 and not letting your house fall into complete disrepair through 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.400 your own neglect. Like, none of that seems very interesting 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.800 in comparison to uh going on a bunch of quests 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:56.560 so that you can literally turn into a bird and 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:02.560 fly around. So there's an idea that's been around since 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:07.120 two tent Let's call it the gamification of everything, that 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.840 we can take this question the state of flow we 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.119 funding games and apply it to all aspects of life. 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.480 Gets down to defining who you are, right and like, 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.040 gamification gives you metrics to help you to define who 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.960 you are, and we like to think that based on merit, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:29.280 that's how we accelerate and level up. This has led 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.200 to some companies offering, say virtual badges to encourage people 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.040 to turn in their reimbursement receipts on time, or scoring 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.600 points to employees who contribute to internal forums where their 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.200 posts are light. These are ideas that Christian witnessed a 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.200 few years back at south By Southwest, a kind of 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:52.480 tech clearinghouse of films, interactive media, concerts, workshops and ideas. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:54.840 You think as I was reading through this stuff that 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.160 you brought in this quote by this guy, Ian Bogo 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:01.240 story says uh. More specifically, gamification is marketing bull invented 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.200 by consultants as a mean to capture the wild, coveted 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.320 beast that is video games and to domesticate it for 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.119 use in the gray, hopeless waste land of big business 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.760 where bullsh already reigns. Anyway, that was exactly what I 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:20.479 was seeing at south By Southwest. The efforts can be 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:24.199 pretty ham fisted, and let's face it, mandated play is 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:28.359 not play. Moreover, it comes down to what motivates the individual. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.040 Game designer Jane McGonagall explores the impact of the individual 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.040 in her world bettering games which draw on collaboration to 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.520 solve real world problems like climate change and hunger. That 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.720 philosophy for her started with her being very ill and 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.200 and basically she made a game for herself to help 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.320 get better, where her sister would kind of contact her 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.879 every day to give her request and and it was 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:58.600 really important to her recovering from being so ill um 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:00.439 and so then she applied that idea get to a 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.280 lot of other things, but she did apply it in 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.840 a way that it was a lot more about making 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.680 the world better and making your life better. In the 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.720 Gonicles example, it's about life imitating games, but at the 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.880 core it's about connecting and reaching out across time and space. 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.159 My fiance and I played multiplayer games together all the 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.600 time for a lot of our relationship when it was 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.760 long distance, we played Minecraft together and we built basically 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.960 a Minecraft world that was our world. The release updates 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.160 of Minecraft periodically and new stuff gets introduced into the world, 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.440 and we got to this point where we had explored 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:38.280 so far beyond where we had built our home in 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.240 the game that when new stuff would come out, we 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.320 would have to go farther and farther to figure for 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.320 new stuff to spawn in the world. When it spawned, 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.000 a new chunk of the map. Uh. And so my 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:51.879 fiance was like, what if I carved out our home 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:54.320 and like plopped it into a new map and then 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.080 we would have the new stuff. And I said, Okay, well, 0:22:57.200 --> 0:22:59.200 we have to make sure our world that we created 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:01.359 together that means something to us makes it into this 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.760 new thing. Otherwise we're not doing it. Um And he'd 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.000 basically do a big square and cut it out of 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:08.960 the map that got all of the things that were 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.280 important to us that we had built together and put 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.440 them into a new world, which was pretty awesome. You 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.200 can still see in the world that cut lines where 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:17.600 he did that, like your walk up, and they'll be 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:27.080 a sheer cliff old world versus a new world, Old 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:31.399 world versus new world. What's beautiful about this is that 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.320 the home they built together in Minecraft is an interactive 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:38.160 metaphor for their relationship, the ways in which the borders 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:42.120 change and grow. I have this question for you. It's 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.600 kind of a bizarre question. You might need to ponder 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.800 it for a moment. But what if real life it 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:52.800 was like Minecraft? Would you like that? Not? Really? I 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:59.920 love real life a lot because there weren't coffee clubs 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:12.560 and oranges and these recording things. Real life gives us 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.480 games and games give us a better life, a way 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.359