1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: The media. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Andrew Sage 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: from YouTube channel Andrewism, joined today by James. 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Hi. 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm doing my own track, Hi Andrew. Yeah, yeah, 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: I'm excited to hear about something. I don't know what yet, 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 3: so it should be a fun adventure. 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 2: Yes, Well, today we are doing a little bit of 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: time traveling. We're gonna embark on a journey to explode 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: movements of about two hundred years ago that I think 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: is still quite relevant even today, particularly in our very technological, 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: fast paced world. So when we put a new James 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: in the early nineteenth century in England, Great which you 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: know is a time of great change, of evil, disease 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: or that jazz. 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I have thrived as a person with 17 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: diabetes would have made it approximately a couple of weeks. 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 2: Yeah. The Industrial Revolution was in full swinging. It hadn't 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: quite reached that point yet as far as I know, 20 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: but it was transforming the way that people lived and worked. 21 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: It was a time of innovation, was also a time 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: of great uncertainty, and amidst the class and looms and 23 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: rise of organization, a group of workers emerged to became 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 2: known as the Lerites. They were, you know, some early 25 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: adopters ah yes, of resistance, Yes, resistance to the changes 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: of the Industrial Revolution, and you know for that cardinal 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: sin they've been missing too preted ever since. So today 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: we're going to be explaining exactly who the the rights 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: were and why the actions resonate with us today in 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: the twenty first century. We'll talk about their history and 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: their motivations and their bravestand against the relentless march of 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: capitalist progress. We're also such on some figures, some of 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: their tactics and the lasting impact they left on history. 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: But most importantly we'll be covering why they struggle somatters today. 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: So here we are. You know, in the nineteenth century 36 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution and soeping through England, British working families were 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: going through some very tough times as the economy was 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: in turmoil and unemployment was spreading like wildfire. It really 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 2: wasn't a good situation to be in. There was this 40 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: never ending war with Napoleon's France. There was Drian resources 41 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: and causing what Yorkshire historian Frank Peel described as the 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: hard pinch of poverty, and to make matters worse, food 43 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: was in short supply and prices were shooting up. Not 44 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: only were jobs hard to come by, but even putting 45 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: basic food on the table was becoming a serious challenge. 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: So it was a really tough period for these families 47 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: and they were feeling that squeeze in every way possible. 48 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: So the Lights emerged as a response to these seismic 49 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: shifts as a moosely organized group of textile workers and 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: weavers who healed primarily but not exclusively, from the nottingham 51 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: Shire region of England. At the heart of their struggle 52 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: was the mechanization of the textile industry. Factories powered by 53 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: steam engines and intricate machinery were replacing traditional cottage industries, 54 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: leading to unemployment and a decline in working conditions. In 55 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: the place of a cottage industry where cloth workers could 56 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: work as many or as few hours and days suited them, 57 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: the factory had a reseren where workers would work long 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: hours at dangerous machinery, be fed meager meals, and submit 59 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: to the punitive authority of the foremant factory owners were winning. 60 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: As I alluded to earlier, the Dites were not blindly 61 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: opposed to this idea of progress, as they've been misinterpreted, 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: but they were seeking to protect their livelihoods and the 63 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: quality of their craftsmanship. Many of the original rights were 64 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: actually quite savvy when it came to technology. In fact, 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: some were highly skilled machine operators that ended up smashing 66 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: the very machines that they were accustomed to use in 67 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: They had no issue with welcoming innovations that made their 68 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: lives and their jobs easier, but they had an issue 69 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: with the way that the new machinery is being used 70 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: by the factory owners to reduce them to mare cogs 71 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: in the industrial machine. And they didn't like that factory 72 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: owners were using the machinery to kick out They trained 73 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: and skilled cloth workers in fear of child laborers and 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: other lower skilled workers would be easier to exploit. Yeah, 75 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: the cloth for these machines produced was of lower quality, 76 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: but because it was so cheap to churn out and 77 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: there was so much of it, the factory owners were 78 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: still toner profit and so that you know, that sucks 79 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: for them, which is why the rights to resist these 80 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: changes embraced a distinctive form of protest. At the time, 81 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: label organizing was label organizing as illegal, so they chose 82 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: a suppose even more drastic method of targets in the 83 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: newly introduced machines for destruction. Yeah, they were. 84 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 3: Is it E. P. Thompson who called it collective bargaining 85 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 3: by riot? Yes, yes, I believe so. Yeah, I think 86 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: that's an excellent way to understand it. I'm sure we'll 87 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 3: get there. But it's Yeah, it's a means of labor 88 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 3: organizing when labor organizing is illegal. 89 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed, I mean, if no other options are available 90 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: to you, you know, you're pressed against the wall. They 91 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: have no other choice. 92 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 93 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: So, these these Loodites would gather together in the dead 94 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: of the night, usually in secluded areas like forests or hillsides, 95 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: to plan their actions. To maintain their secrecy, Blodites adopted 96 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: a strict code of silence, making it very difficult for 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 2: authorities to infiltrate their ranks. That secrecy was crucial to 98 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: their survival and their ability to outwind the authorities, and 99 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: so under this code they'd go on and break into 100 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: the factories and smash the machinery and occasionally leave an 101 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: etching of the infamous ned Lud as a mark of 102 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 2: their presence. Ned Luod, by the way, was a symbol 103 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: not their actual leader. He was a legendary weaver who 104 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: was said to have been whipped for idleness, so he 105 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 2: smashed two knit in frames in a fit of passion. 106 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 2: More likely, Nedlood didn't exist. He was more of like 107 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: a folkloric character, but the Laites named themselves after him 108 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: and would call them King Lood and General Luod. Funny enough, 109 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: the authorities actually thought he was the ringleader of the 110 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: whole operation, so they tried to hunt him down. Meanwhile, 111 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: of course the Luddites are jokingly referring to Lud's office 112 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 2: and Sheerwood Forest, and some of the Bloodites would actually 113 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: cross dress as Lud's wives during their protests. 114 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do like every time you find an instance 115 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 3: of like cross dressing in history. So it's just amusing 116 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: to note that. I guess some people have decided that 117 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: like either either like cross dressing or trans people were 118 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 3: invented in like twenty sixteen, not that those two things 119 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: are the same, but like we can find literally thousands 120 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: of instances of of course trans people and also crossdressing 121 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: like as a form of like deliberate sometimes it's transgression. 122 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: Sometimes the thing that just people did. But yeah, you 123 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: can see it in depictions of the Ladyites like people 124 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: even took the time to paint it into their paintings 125 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: exactly exactly. 126 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, but yees, so, I mean the leader wasn't ned 127 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: a lot. The leader, well, it really was Earl the 128 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: Last movement. The real instigators were just regular on the 129 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: ground weavers and craftsmen, folks like, for example, George Mellow, 130 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: a weaver from Huddersfield who played a pivotal rule in 131 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: organizing the right actions in the West Riding of Yorkshire, 132 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: best known for the time that he fatally shot a 133 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: mill owner in the balls. Yeah chat move indeed, indeed. 134 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: But these actions were not just you know, random acts 135 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: of vandalism and violence. They were a desperate plea for change. 136 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: In fact, they mainly confined their attacks to manufacturers who 137 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: specifically use machines in what they called a fraudulent and 138 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: seitful manner to get around standard labor practices. The Lights 139 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: wanted machines that made high quality goods, and they wanted 140 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: these machines to be run by workers who had gone 141 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: through an apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Those were 142 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 2: really their main concerns, and besides the raids, and the smashing. 143 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: They also had a couple other tricks up their sleeves. 144 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: They organized public demonstrations, They sent out letters to look 145 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: industrialists and government officials to lay out their reasons for 146 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: wrecking the machinery. They weren't just smashing for the reason 147 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: with no messaging. Yeah, and in different parts of England, 148 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, you had different approaches, different stances and different 149 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: material conditions. So, for example, in the Midlands of England, 150 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: to the rights had the Company of Framework Knitters, which 151 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: was this recognized public body that could talk to the 152 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: capitalists through named representatives, and so they used that legitimacy 153 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: as a recognized institution to back up their demands. But 154 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: up in the northwest of England, textile workers didn't have 155 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: these established trade institutions, so they used their letters to 156 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: push for official recognition as a united group of trades people. 157 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: You know, it's like an early union. The demands went 158 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: just of course about smashing machines. They also wanted high 159 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: min own wages and again an end to childwait labor. 160 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: They were playing the long game. And in Yorkshire, you know, 161 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: the tone shifts a bit. They were going from letter 162 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: writingto making more direct and violent threats against local authorities 163 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 2: who they saw supports in these nasty machines that messed 164 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: with the job market the Yorkshire Writes meant business. In fact, 165 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: they carried around these sledgehammers that they call the Great Enoch, 166 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 2: named after local blacksmith who had manufactured both the hammers 167 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 2: and also many of the machines they intended to destroy. 168 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: As they declared Enoch made them, Enoch shall break them, 169 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 2: which I think is just the division that gives me. 170 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: Is like, you know, God of War style, you know, 171 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: swinging around this sledgehammer smash of the machines. 172 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like, I mean, they broke some big things, right, 173 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 3: like they weren't. This wasn't like, I know, like some 174 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 3: sort of trivial sabotage like frame breaking is. It's still 175 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 3: a capital crime in the UK, but it's also a 176 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: serious feet of strength. 177 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm going to get into that. 178 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: Excellent. Yeah. I love coming from a country with normal laws. 179 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 2: There's so many. Don't even get me started on strange 180 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: laws around the world. I mean, yeah, uring that there 181 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: are some really strange strange laws, but yeah, yeah, I'm 182 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: sure that could be a whole topic for a whole episode. 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: It could be you could suggest that they're not connected 184 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: to morality. Perhaps maybe maybe the law and right and 185 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 3: wrong is not the same thing. 186 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: Hm, you might be onto something there, Yeah, ponder something 187 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: to think about for sure. 188 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. 189 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: So a lot of these change differences and approaches like 190 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 2: I mentioned, really depend on their material conditions. It also 191 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: depended on the background of the workers. Some of them 192 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: were frameworkers, some of them are weavers, some of them 193 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: were spinners, and so they took on different tactics and 194 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: styles depending on what they were experienced with and where 195 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: you found them. Of course, they were sending out death 196 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: threats to some industrialists as well, and in fact, some 197 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: of these industrialists were so worried about let light attacks 198 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: that they had secret chambers built into their buildings as 199 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: escape plans in case things went south during an attack. 200 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 201 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: I could imagine them cowering in their holes. Yeah, just 202 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 2: like as were outside. 203 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: Imagine being like, yeah, I'm making excellent choices in life. 204 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 3: I employ hundreds of people, and I've built a secret 205 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: hole to hiding when they'll never be trying and kill 206 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 3: me because I've made their lives so shit. 207 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: Yes, Like I am going to create conditions that are 208 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: so terrible. These people are going to get so angry 209 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: at me and then I'm just going to make a 210 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: place to hide, you know. Yeah, so actually rectifying the 211 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 2: reasons they're angry. 212 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Like you could simply take the money you 213 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: spent on your secret escape patch and distributed to people 214 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 3: who are literally strung link to put food in their 215 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 3: children's mouths. But I guess that's not the logic of capitalism, 216 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: is it. 217 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be too it'll be too humane. 218 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, you can't let them get you know, 219 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 3: realize that you're afraid of them. 220 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: Indeed, for all these tactics, the rights were truly fights, 221 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: not only for their own jobs, but also for us, 222 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: say in the future of their industry and their communities. 223 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 2: Like regular people of today, they were just trying to 224 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: provide for their families and defend themselves against the ever 225 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: expanding incursions of the capitalists. I don't know, James, how 226 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: do you think the government and factor and has responded 227 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 2: to these ordinary people and their desperate and fair please 228 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: for change. Yeah, surely it was a human response right. 229 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 3: From Yeah, that's what I would expect as a British person. 230 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 3: Throughout history of our government has really shown a lot 231 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: of humanity and compassion for people, so I'd expected did 232 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: something similar here. That's what I learned into. 233 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 2: They're so compassionate that they created an empire that the 234 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: sun would never set on. 235 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: Hm. 236 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: The reason so considerate, you know, for people who are 237 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: afraid of the dark. 238 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's the real reason. 239 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 240 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 3: And of course they were doing it to uplift, civilize 241 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: and christianize the other peoples of the world. And for 242 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 3: the other reasons. 243 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: Such philanthropists, such philanthropists. 244 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: Kind people who bought tea and scones to the rest 245 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: of the world. The British Empire and the British government. Yeah, 246 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 3: never am I going to learn something bad about them? 247 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate it at you down. But the government 248 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: and the factory and has responded with, you know, deploying 249 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: troops to quell the light uprisings and firing against the protesters. 250 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: In one of the bloodiest incidents in April eighteen twelve, 251 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: some two thousand protesters marbed a mill there Manchester, and 252 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: the owner ordered his men because in addition to soldiers, 253 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: you also have these you know, private militias that capitalists 254 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: would hire. So the owner ordered his men to fire 255 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 2: into the crowd, killing at least three and wound in eighteen, 256 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: and then soldiers killed at least five more the next day. 257 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that's that's not quite what we'd hope for, 258 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 3: is it. 259 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Many of the Lights were arrested, many 260 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: were tortured, some even faced execution or even worse, exile 261 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,359 Speaker 2: to Australia. 262 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're ultimately the ultimate crime, the ultimate penalty. Rather, yeah, 263 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 3: it's sent to the land of kangaroos and where they 264 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: put mashed potatoes inside their pies. What Yeah, have you 265 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 3: not seen this? This is it's terrible. But unfortunately, are 266 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 3: you talking about like Shepherd's pie or no. They'll they'll 267 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 3: take a meat pie like a normal meat pie, and 268 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: then they'll cut a bit and then put mashed potatoes 269 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: like into in the top of it, just to what 270 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 3: is called. I have to look now, like I've seen 271 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 3: it on YouTube meat hie mashed potato Australia. You can 272 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: get it like it in like you know, like like 273 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 3: it's like instead of having fish and chips. You can 274 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 3: get it at a van like someone will bring it 275 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 3: to you. 276 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: I think I'm seeing it. 277 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 3: You found it and then they put like gravy as well. 278 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: Oh man, Yeah, it's uh like I've come from a 279 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: country that does terrible things to food, but yeah, it's 280 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: this one is really something else. You can see why 281 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 3: people why it was the word. 282 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: I have to say though, I do admire that it 283 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: seems to be a very balanced you know, you get 284 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: in the cobs, the fats and the proteins in it. 285 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: You know, it's like, yeah, and its all in one. 286 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: That's that's the gym bro and meats talking, of course, 287 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: but it seems like a very efficient meal. 288 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, it's not that the Cornish pasty is 289 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 3: the truly the most efficient working man's power bar because 290 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 3: you can you can hold onto the crust and eat 291 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 3: the pasty and even if you have like dirty hands 292 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: from working in a factory, you still get your lunch. 293 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah. But we're getting a little bit side. 294 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah we have. We've traveled a long way. 295 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: From the latter exiles Australia. I shut out the thought, 296 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: but some of them, despite that, kept their fighting spirit 297 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: to the bitter end, like for example, John Booth and 298 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 2: no offense to James, but you know a lot of 299 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: the names I read like British history are the most 300 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 2: generic sound in names. You just casually find someone in 301 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: British named like John Doe. 302 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, we do. We're choosing from a limit palette. Like 303 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 3: until very recently, we were really pretty pretty, like pretty 304 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 3: stodgy on the names, you know, like I mean, I. 305 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 2: Mean, it's it's iconic, but at the same time it's 306 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: also hilarious that you like everybody from like regular people 307 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: to like some of the movers and shapers, the leaders 308 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: in the military and you know, politicians and stuff, just 309 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: all of them. 310 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like they had yeah, yeah, yeah, just 311 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 3: some guy. Occasionally you'll get like a Cornelius or a 312 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 3: Marmaduke or just some absolute nons with like a really 313 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 3: posh name, but yeah, otherwise yeah, it's. 314 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: Well apparently like an Enoch, you know. 315 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you gotta respect Enoch. Like once you go 316 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: outside of England you get some good names. But like, yeah, 317 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 3: we were moving with a pretty pretty pretty playing with 318 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 3: a playing with a small deck. I guess when it 319 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: came to names for a while, for I mean. 320 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: I can't even talk. My name is Andrews, so I. 321 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: Think my name is the most popular name for boys 322 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 3: born in the year I was born, So I can't really, 323 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: I can't really say much. 324 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: Oh God, we're going off track again, right John Booth? Right? 325 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 2: So John Booth was this nineteen year old apprentice who 326 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 2: joined one of the light attacks. He was injured, detained, 327 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: and died after being tortured to give up the identity 328 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: of his fellow thelites. A local priest was in the 329 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: room when he was passing, and his dying words became legendary. 330 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: So John was like, can you keep a secret? And 331 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: the priest was like, yes, my child, and then Booth 332 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: was like, so can I and then he died. 333 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 3: There you go, what a hear? 334 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 2: Yeah? Iconic? Iconic? 335 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 336 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: So yeah. Government officials by eighteen thirteen were trying to 337 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: quash the light movement and by any means necessary, so 338 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: they organize this massive trial in York after the attack 339 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 2: on Cartwright's mill, A Rawford's near Clakheaton. 340 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: I've got to write, yeah, clak Heaton. I think that 341 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: seems about right. Where are we in the Yeah, yeah, 342 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 3: we're in. I'm signing it on the map, Okay, in 343 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: the leads. Yeah yeah, Bradford. I've not actually spent much 344 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 3: time in that part of the world, but if I 345 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 3: had to guess raw folds something like that. We do 346 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 3: like one of our another. Another great tradition in Britain 347 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 3: is having names which don't bear any relation to the 348 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 3: way they're spelled. We just write them like that. Actually 349 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: can tell if you're local or not. 350 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean we primarily use British spelling conventions 351 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: Internet in English, so I know all about your center 352 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: with the R and then the E. 353 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, defense and yeah, I'm working on a book at 354 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 3: the moment and my American Microsoft word is fighting me 355 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: every step of the way on my spelling. 356 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, can't they see that the U is 357 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: absolutely essential in the word color? 358 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and without it we wouldn't know what it meant. 359 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: And that's what language does. 360 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 2: So yeah. So after this attack on Cartwright's mill, Ruffles 361 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: mayor clak Eaton, the government accused over sixty men, including 362 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: Mellow and his associates, of various crimes related to the 363 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: rights activities. It's important to note that not all of 364 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: these charged men were actually the right Some had no 365 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: connection to the movement, and while these trials were technically 366 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 2: legitimateury trials, many were abandoned due to a lack of evidence. 367 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 2: They didn't the acquittal of thirty of those sixty men. 368 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 2: And it's evident that these trials were primarily intended as 369 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 2: show trials to discourage others from continuing the activities. And 370 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 2: then here's here's where we get to the important bit. 371 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: Parliament went on to make a machine breaking at eat 372 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 2: industrial sabotage a capital crime with the Frame Breaking Act 373 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: of eighteen twelve. 374 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, what a normal thing. And they've never repealed it, 375 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 3: is that right? 376 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? I believe I don't think so. Ye're still in 377 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 2: the books. 378 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, listen if you're listening since it was Yeah, I 379 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 3: was going to say, if someone's listening in the UK, 380 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: just give it a try to see what happens. Stake 381 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 3: stakes are quite high, but yeah, you know, you never know, 382 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: they might be might be able to get the Machine 383 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 3: Breaking Act struck down a frame branking. 384 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you know, since it 385 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: was established in eighteen twelve, if by now a lot 386 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: of the British colonies you know, might still have it 387 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 2: in their books as well. Yeah, yeah, herited that common 388 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 2: law and stuff. Yeah, and I'm not like a legal score. 389 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: I don't know all the deeds on that. 390 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 3: No, I can see Liz trust incorporating it into her 391 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 3: platform to return to our leadership position. It's like a 392 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 3: very insane kind of Tory position. Like there's there's still 393 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 3: this bizarre British like any time we have a protest 394 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 3: movement in the streets in the UK, you can like 395 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 3: log onto like meta Facebook or whatever and see like 396 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: a certain type of British person being like sending the army. 397 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 3: Like it's like a like there are people who have 398 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 3: not reconstructed their opinions on labor organizing since the LA 399 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 3: that period. 400 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, indeed they are the Conservative Party canally picture 401 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,479 Speaker 2: them like smoking cigars with top hats, except you know, 402 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 2: they were not capitalists. A lot of them are just 403 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: like regular workers, just like what are you even doing? 404 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, like you've like don't you understand that 405 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 3: your economic interest line up these people and not with 406 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 3: the Boris Johnson's of this world? And you're so social 407 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 3: interest too of course, but. 408 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: I mean speaking of of you know, interests aligning, there 409 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 2: was actually a politician who did stand against that legislation, 410 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 2: and that is you know, the well known English poet 411 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 2: Lord Byron. Yeah, he was actually one of the few 412 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: prominent defenders of that's especially after witnessing how the defendants 413 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: were treated during the York Child. 414 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 3: I mean, ahead, bar Byron has some surprisingly like good 415 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 3: and then he was part of this romantic movement, right, 416 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 3: like the idea that the industrial revolution spoiled the innocence 417 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 3: of the rural working people, which it's it's paternalist at 418 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 3: its core, but like when at least he's not paying 419 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 3: for their blood. 420 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, it actually that that attitude reminds me 421 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: of Van go He was another all of his art 422 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 2: was very obsessed with the peasants because he just saw 423 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: it like a better way of life. Yeah, real romanticization 424 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: of the peasantry. 425 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. I think it was a thing that 426 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 3: sort of spread around Europe in the late nineteenth early 427 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 3: twentieth century. Maybe like in the eighteenth centuries, no they yeah, 428 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: nineteen to twentieth century, like this idea that yeah, like 429 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: the innocence of the rural peasants have been broken, and 430 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 3: like it's just so reflected in so much art from 431 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 3: that period. 432 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: That is that's literally just like the revolusion of nostalgia. Yeah, 433 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 2: fully think about it. You know, it's like it's kind 434 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: of like our people today are like, oh the nineties 435 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 2: was so much better. Oh the two thousands were so 436 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: much better. Oh the eighties or the seventies. It's just 437 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: that but with peasants. Yeah yeah, like disco whatever. Yeah, yeah, 438 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: you're right, Like, yeah, it is. 439 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 3: It's like doing like doing a ironic wearing a fanny pack, 440 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 3: but with a peasant or. 441 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: Not even just in fashion. It's also like the angel 442 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 2: like material reasons, people feel nostalgic. Nostalgic as well. Yeah, 443 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 2: like we think about you know, safety, when you think 444 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: about the ways that our cities have changed, think about 445 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: you know, the material realities that have changed in these decades, 446 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: and it makes sense. But just like I wished for 447 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: the simpler life of the present, our people now wish, 448 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 2: you know, go back to the simpler times of. 449 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: You have the minus strike when the. 450 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: Media posts Jim Crow and colonial independent experience. 451 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean it's uh, I think also we 452 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 3: forget the hardships, but yeah, like it's a way. And 453 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 3: change accelerates so much quicker now because we've rarely fucked 454 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 3: the whole planet, and climate change accelerating and obviously technological 455 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 3: change accelerating, so our nostalgia cycles are much shorter. But yeah, 456 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: this is just like when I had an estate and 457 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 3: I could direct the peasants to trim my trees in 458 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: a certain shape, life is better for them. Kind of no, 459 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 3: but like in a meaningful sense, right, Like the lives 460 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 3: of working class people were not improved. Right we see 461 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 3: like the like GDP, which is a useless metric, but 462 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 3: like the amount of of like value of goods the 463 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: country producers in industrial revolution goes up and up and up, 464 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 3: but the quality of life and even life expectancy does not, right, 465 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 3: like people are dying earlier and certainly like and chiefly 466 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 3: life expectancy is dropping because children are dying, right, either 467 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 3: from the industrial conditions or conditions in cities, and so like, 468 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: in a meaningful sense, those people's life was not improved. 469 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 3: The life of the bourgeoisie was improved, and like we 470 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: see that later in Britain with things like the Britain's 471 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 3: forced to incorporate the bourgeoisie into it into its politics. Right, 472 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 3: so that doesn't have a bigger revolution, that's what it 473 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 3: does in the Great Reform Act. But like the working 474 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 3: class people, it continues to suppress with like after this 475 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 3: you know, we look, we say it with the chartists 476 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: and like the violent oppression of chartism. But yeah, this 477 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 3: nostalgia isn't it helps them, But I guess it's not 478 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 3: really invested in their agency. It's more of a paternalist 479 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: like it's I guess not dissimilar to the way Britain 480 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 3: treated its colonies in many ways. 481 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think another aspect of it as well is, 482 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 2: you know, when we look at this sort of nostalgia, 483 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: whether it's talking about this romantic nostalgia for the simple 484 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: life of the peasant, always talking about the nostalgia of well, 485 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: for example, give you an example from Trinidad, the oil boom 486 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: period in the seventies and eighties. Right, Yeah, we gain 487 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: independence nineteen sixty two, and in the seventies and eighties 488 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: we got this oil boom and you know some other 489 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 2: people who live in lavish But whether you talk either 490 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: of those cases, when you look at the reality of 491 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: the situation on the ground, it's like, oh, you actually 492 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 2: go out to that time, it wasn't Also on Shina ruverses, 493 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 2: you know, like it actually was not good to be 494 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: a peasant. Actually, I mean there are certain things that 495 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: you know, a lot better than now in terms of 496 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: perhaps the vibrants of culture or the ability to lean 497 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: on a community for support and that sort of thing. 498 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: But or take for example, this oil boom situation talking 499 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: about with Trinidad. Yeah, like there was this massive influx 500 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: of wealth and stuff, but there's also you know, a 501 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 2: whole bunch of corruption and also we had the whole 502 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy Black Power revolution that was born out of 503 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: the frustration of the people at the time. There's all 504 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 2: sunshine and rainbows, you know. 505 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's just always this sense like you 506 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 3: see it in like nostalgia as well, right, like the 507 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 3: nostalgia for East Germany that the German people will talk about, 508 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 3: like you also had the starz e Like. 509 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 510 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 511 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: I mean I guess at it when I look at 512 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: some of the maps of like like they're talking about 513 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: with Germany, some of the data related maps and the 514 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: sociological data of things like religiosity or things. Yeah, current 515 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 2: some other examples, but there's some like stark differences between 516 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: the two sides of the country. 517 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, very much. 518 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 2: So, so I completely understand people would feel like, oh, 519 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: we feel so separate and distinct from you know, West 520 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: Germany and all that stuff. 521 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 3: But yeah, and when you've become like they went from 522 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 3: being like a I guess, like a nation within the 523 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: USSR to like the often the less economically advantage parts 524 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 3: of a nation which is near liberal and capitalist, and 525 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 3: like neoliberal capitalism is not kind to the less economically 526 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 3: advance advantage people. It wasn't a great situation before either, 527 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 3: to be clear, but like, I can see how suddenly 528 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: being incorporated into like not not everyone's going through this, 529 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 3: but you are are, and the state's not going to 530 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 3: do fuck all to help you is like I can 531 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 3: see how that might promote some nostalgia. 532 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, and I mean speaking of states doing nothing. 533 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: At this time, Byron is making his speech before the 534 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: Lord's and in that speech, laced with sarcasm, of course, 535 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: he was highlighting the benefits of automation, which he believe 536 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 2: led to the production of inferior goods and unemployment. He 537 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: concluded that the proposed law, the Frame Breaking active eighteen twelve, 538 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: was only missing two crucial elements to be effective twelve 539 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 2: butchers for a jury and a Jeffries for a judge, 540 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: which was a reference to George Jeffries an infamous hanging 541 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: judge known for his very harsh judgments. 542 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also mad that, like, but also not uncommon 543 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 3: in this period that you are seeing like the leftmost 544 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 3: political opinion being advanced within Parliament being advanced in the 545 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 3: hereditary chamber, like the House of Lord, Like. 546 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly as soon the that's the way the aristocratic Yeah, 547 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 2: the aristocratic realm is still you know, having to deal 548 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 2: with this. 549 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very much tied to like a paternalism and 550 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 3: a sort of feudal attitude. But it's just it's just 551 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 3: fascinating to see, like, and it does happen in the 552 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 3: especially and I think also there's this a deep, deep 553 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: disdain for new money that is a powerfully British vibe 554 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 3: that that comes especially from the House of Lords, right, 555 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 3: like like this like they don't identify with the bourgeoisie 556 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 3: at all and fucking hate them because they're they're they're 557 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 3: turning up at the country club or whatever. 558 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's so it's so funny without a lot 559 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 2: of old money. And I'm gonna say this, and I'm 560 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 2: gonna you know, give back contract. What's so funny about 561 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: the old money, folks, is that a lot of other cases. 562 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 2: They don't even have like as much money as the 563 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 2: new money people. Yes, about money for them at this point, 564 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: it's really just about linear and culture and whatever. 565 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like Britain's class thing is like it's almost like 566 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 3: a caste system, Like your cast is your class is 567 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 3: inherited regardless of your actual financial means. Like they're like 568 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 3: lord living in a castle that he can't afford to heat. 569 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 3: It's like a it's like a it's a trope for 570 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 3: a reason in Britain, I guess. 571 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed. Yeah, But the passing of that act, and 572 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 2: in the years had followed, the Light movement came to 573 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: an end. But the actions left a lasting mark on 574 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: the labor movement. There's tactics of collective action. Even though 575 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 2: Clandestine laid the groundwork for future labor unions, demonstrating the 576 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 2: power of organized resistance, defenders of their way of life, 577 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: reminders the technology wild transformative cano disrupt lives and communities. 578 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 2: The Lights experiences, the Lights experiences echo even today, you know, 579 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 2: in an era with the fear of technological unemployment, with 580 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: discussions and the impact of automation and AI. 581 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, before he. 582 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: Had said his infamous last words. John Booth also said 583 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 2: that the new machinery might be man's chief blessing instead 584 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: of his curse, if society were differently constituted. In other ways, 585 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 2: technology can either help common food or harm them, depending 586 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: on not just what the technology is, but also what 587 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 2: society the technology develops within. 588 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true. 589 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 2: So I'll leave you all with that for now, and 590 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: next time we'll be shifting off focused to the present 591 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: day and examining how Luddism's principles have been applied by 592 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 2: movements of the twentieth and twenty first century. 593 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 3: Cool nice. 594 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 2: That's all for me. You can find me on YouTube 595 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: dot com slash Andurism, and support on Patreon dot com 596 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: slash Saint Drew. This has been It could Happen here. 597 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 3: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 598 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 599 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 2: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 600 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 601 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 2: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 602 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. 603 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.