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Speaker 1: Last Hell, Hello, and welcome.

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Speaker 2: To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 3: This is that show where we recap our early episodes

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Speaker 3: with new case info and old feelings.

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Speaker 2: Today we're rewinding the episode one o nine, which we

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Speaker 2: named Project Art to Choke Hell.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this episode came out on February twenty second, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Let's listen to the intro of episode one oh nine.

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Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do? Do Do Do Doo? Did

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Speaker 1: it murder? What'd you say? My favorite murder?

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Speaker 2: Is?

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Speaker 1: I love podcast?

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Speaker 2: Thanks everybody. Hey, we decided to start with song every episode.

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Speaker 1: Do you like light jazz? So do we? Wow?

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Speaker 3: It's getting more uncomfortable at the top of the show

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Speaker 3: the more the longer we do it.

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Speaker 2: Every time I hear our intros as we're doing them,

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Speaker 2: I think of the person in a car with her friend.

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Speaker 1: Who's like, you have to listen to this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Just please listen to it, mom, You're gonna love it, right,

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Speaker 2: And then the opening comes in and it's like it

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Speaker 2: gets better, it gets better. They do this all the times.

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Speaker 2: They always it's like.

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Speaker 1: Funny because it's always so uncomfortable. It's funny because it's

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Speaker 1: so bad.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to listen to it, and that's what

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Speaker 3: they call irony. Mom, Mom, stop judging me, Mom, stop

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Speaker 3: gripping the steering wheel like that.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you a mom story please?

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Speaker 2: I in the ongoing saga of my relationship with my

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Speaker 2: lifetime relationship with my mother.

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Speaker 1: It's always life with those women, forever saying they're just

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Speaker 1: there all every holiday, my god, and so depressing.

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Speaker 2: My mom's mom lived to be one hundred and four,

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Speaker 2: so I've got a fucking while. Oh yeah, that's really heartening.

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Speaker 2: So I told her. I sent on the email to

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Speaker 2: my family being like, hey, we're.

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Speaker 1: Playing the orpheu on you know, in March in La

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Speaker 1: and where you guys. I want you to come. It's

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Speaker 1: like a big fucking deal. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like la hometown show. The Orpheume' is a gorgeous theater.

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Speaker 2: I'm like excited.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: And my dad wrote back, oh, be there, you know,

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Speaker 2: with plus five, and it was you know this person.

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Speaker 2: Of course we're gonna go. And then my mom wrote back,

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Speaker 2: literally this is all she wrote.

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Speaker 1: What time.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm saying what time because it was a question

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Speaker 2: mark what time time?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what time? I'm saying it as it was written that,

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Speaker 1: and you know that was her inflection.

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Speaker 2: You know that was her And I know that has

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Speaker 2: seventy one year old's write emails.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like they don't. It's just

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Speaker 1: get any letter out that you can hit soun.

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Speaker 2: This is coming from a woman too, who went to

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Speaker 2: fucking DC for like a trip and called and left

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Speaker 2: a voicemail and said, I won't have long distance, so

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Speaker 2: call John if you need anything.

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Speaker 1: How was she getting hold of you? Long distance isn't

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Speaker 1: a thing anymore? Did she mean cellular service? I don't

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Speaker 1: think no.

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Speaker 2: I don't think she knows that everyone has long distance

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing.

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Speaker 2: It's this isn't fucking ten ten three to one anymore.

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Speaker 1: Mom. I'm calling you on a calling card, so I

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Speaker 1: have to make this quick. You have seven Mommi.

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Speaker 2: Oh, jan Janet, Janet, come on standing ovation at the

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Speaker 2: ORF if she goes, if it's not past her fucking bedtime?

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Speaker 1: What time? What time? What she? I think?

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Speaker 3: Really, what she was saying is please Georgia, when you

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Speaker 3: communicate with the family, get really specific, thinks so too,

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Speaker 3: Just let's get organized in these email. So it's my fault, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that you're playing New or Fam. Hey guys, we're playing

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Speaker 3: New Orphum on March sixteenth. Hopefully you can come. It's

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Speaker 3: not sold out as it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: They released some tickets so it might not be completely

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Hey, look, I mean, if you're interested in look into it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You don't have let me do a thing.

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Speaker 1: We feel like you've given us enough already. We don't

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Speaker 1: want to make you do anything. My family on the

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Speaker 1: way head needs to fucking be there. They need to

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Speaker 1: step up. What have they done for me? Now?

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Speaker 3: You know that My father Actually, my sister called me

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Speaker 3: on this along the same line, and my father called

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Speaker 3: her and said, when he heard we were playing New

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Speaker 3: or Film, said let's go down and be there for

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Speaker 3: that show. So my sister's like, oh my god, Dad

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Speaker 3: wants to come down. It's a big deal because his

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Speaker 3: hipsaw screwed up. So he walks like in Orangutan. I

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Speaker 3: get it, you've seen it. So then my sister's like,

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Speaker 3: so I think we're gonna come down, and she and

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Speaker 3: my sister's getting all excited or whatever. And then I

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Speaker 3: said that all sounds great. You know, we'll we'll make

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Speaker 3: it all work for dad, and I said, but you

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Speaker 3: do know that we're coming up to San Francisco in

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Speaker 3: the fall. And the second I sent the message of

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Speaker 3: there's a possibility this is this.

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Speaker 1: Won't be the last show that you possibly could come to. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my dad goes, oh, forget it, just immediately immediately bails

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Speaker 1: on the plan. I want him to come because it

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Speaker 1: will be like our families are there. I know Marty

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Speaker 1: and your dad could hang out. My god, my dad

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Speaker 1: will just shout over Marty's head, can we talk about

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Speaker 1: our double date with your dad please?

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Speaker 3: One of the most romantic evenings that I've experienced in

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Speaker 3: a while.

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Speaker 2: Fucking he was down here and Karen sheepishly one of

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Speaker 2: those you don't have to do it, it's I know,

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Speaker 2: it's weird, And do you guys want to go to dinner?

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Speaker 1: And Vincent and I of course like yes.

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Speaker 3: It felt like we had just gotten off like a

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Speaker 3: nine day tour together where I was like, hey, how

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Speaker 3: about you make more plans?

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Speaker 2: I know you guys don't want to see me, and

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Speaker 2: also another kill Garff, but please come, please come, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god.

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Speaker 1: It was the best.

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Speaker 2: We went to fucking fancy Pants Mosso and Franks, which

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Speaker 2: is like the fanciest thing.

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Speaker 3: My dad said actual occasional. He's obsessed with Musson Franks.

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Speaker 3: I love it. We went there. He also has great

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Speaker 3: memories because we went there. I think it might have

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Speaker 3: been fifteen years ago and I was with some of

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Speaker 3: my friends, one of whom was my friend Kevin Sessha,

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Speaker 3: who decided he was going to drink whiskey neat as

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Speaker 3: his drink, so everyone else was ordering beer and wine

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Speaker 3: or whatever, and he orders he basically orders a double

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Speaker 3: shot of whiskey, and my dad goes, Jesus, do you

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Speaker 3: have a gunfight in the morning.

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Speaker 1: And then that was like legend for a while. And

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Speaker 1: when my dad said make the reservation I want to

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Speaker 1: go to he kept joking about it where I'm like that,

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Speaker 1: if you actually want to go to Mussom Frakes, we can.

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Speaker 1: He's like, well, I buy me a would like to

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Speaker 1: go there, And then he goes, remember we went there

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Speaker 1: and your friend was drinking all that whiskey. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: for someone who drinks that as much as my dad does,

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Speaker 1: it really stood up to him that my friends were

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Speaker 1: doing whiskey shops. It little did he know that that's

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Speaker 1: all I drank constantly. It was the best. It was

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Speaker 1: so good.

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Speaker 2: And then like meeting some one's dad and like, this

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Speaker 2: is why you're this way, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: Like not even like he didn't do anything or he

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Speaker 2: said some funny shit, but like just to.

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Speaker 1: Be like, oh, this is what we're raised by. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is good to know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And then I could see you getting embarrassed when

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Speaker 2: he said certain things. He did, certain things that I

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Speaker 2: didn't give a shit about.

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Speaker 3: Well, there was points where he was talking directly over Georgia,

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Speaker 3: like Georgia would go da dah dah, and he would

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Speaker 3: just well and then I finally really and I was mortified,

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Speaker 3: and I realized, oh, he.

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Speaker 1: Can't hear her because it was really out and the

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Speaker 1: rest my dad has he such bad fireman hearing that

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Speaker 1: if you have to have it, we're seventy year old hearing,

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Speaker 1: yeah it's over.

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Speaker 3: But also all the bells, that's why he started telling

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Speaker 3: you guys that story of all the bells going in

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Speaker 3: all the houses every time there was a fire. That's

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Speaker 3: how that's how the bell system was set up in

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Speaker 3: the firehouses in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: So he the bells just were going off all day long,

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Speaker 1: or why oh, I see what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: So they basically like all of hearing damage from like

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Speaker 3: sixties to the eighties or whenever they put in their but.

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Speaker 1: Like, I get it, you said it.

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Speaker 2: You were like so embarrassed about it, and I don't

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Speaker 2: care and totally understood what was going on.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's just I didn't want you to think he

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Speaker 3: was a blowhard, because he's really not. But he just

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Speaker 3: kept starting conversations because he didn't look at Georgia like

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Speaker 3: he would start it and look up and be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: like you were trying to ask him a question.

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Speaker 1: I loved it. I just can't sit in silence. There

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Speaker 1: wasn't much.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't it was actually it was really really fun. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Vince and I adored him, Okay, good adored him.

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Speaker 3: No, he really is an American classic and just a

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Speaker 3: good time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. There are a few people that don't have fun

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Speaker 1: with Jim Gilgaroff. No, Jim is our favorite.

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Speaker 3: Unless you wear a keep America, make America great again

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Speaker 3: hut and then he'll tell you to take something off.

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Speaker 1: Your dad and my dad are not going to get along.

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Speaker 1: We'll just make a no hats rule, okay, and everybody

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Speaker 1: will be fine. Okay, great, do you have any yo?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the corrections corner that has needed to happen

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Speaker 3: since the moment the last episode dropped.

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Speaker 1: You practiced it twice. It's so far because it's so unfair.

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Speaker 2: You practice it twice at the Salt Lake City shows

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, which were fucking awesome and fun and thanks.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Saltlake City, thank you Salt Lake City.

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Speaker 3: So much fun, What an amazing weekend We had already

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Speaker 3: just had so much fun in Cleveland and Columbus, like

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Speaker 3: we were just every show.

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Speaker 2: Is so fun, and it was like our last shows

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Speaker 2: on tour, yeah, until Europe, and.

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Speaker 1: It was just it was great. It was so fun.

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Speaker 1: It was so gorgeous in that city.

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Speaker 3: But the interesting thing was the we actually did a

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Speaker 3: show Thursday night, which we almost never do, so the

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Speaker 3: episode had dropped that day, so we were real time with.

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Speaker 1: The podcast, so I got to do basically a.

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Speaker 3: Real time hours later corrections corner, explaining that yes, in fact,

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Speaker 3: the reason that Georgia had didn't hear about the tree

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Speaker 3: trimmer murder, the Matthew Hoffman guy that had all the

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Speaker 3: leaves in his living room, and that creepy story.

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Speaker 1: And it happened in November, and I was like, how

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Speaker 1: do I not hear about this?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, you know why you haven't heard

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Speaker 3: about it because it's so fresh off the precess. Well actually,

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Speaker 3: and in truth, it had happened in twenty ten, in

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Speaker 3: November of twenty ten, so I was eight years off

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Speaker 3: and that's why you hadn't heard of it.

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Speaker 1: And I actually looked.

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Speaker 3: At the Thank god, I still had the article on

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Speaker 3: my like reading tab, and I opened it up, like,

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Speaker 3: I bet you this is one of those articles that

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Speaker 3: has a current date, but then they're re quoting. There's

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Speaker 3: some lie I made up to myself. Nope, right there

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Speaker 3: it was. It was the article is from twenty eleven,

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Speaker 3: reporting back.

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Speaker 1: So how did that happened?

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Speaker 2: I think one time you put in twenty seventeen on

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Speaker 2: accident and it came No.

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Speaker 1: It's purely I wanted it to be. I wanted it

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Speaker 1: to have just happened.

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Speaker 2: We're just so excited like this fresh murder, like we

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Speaker 2: always do old shit.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be like exciting, yes, And I feel

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Speaker 3: like with the way the murder Reno community is, with

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Speaker 3: the way people tell us stuff, the way Twitter is

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Speaker 3: if there was like it just felt like to me

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Speaker 3: like I had stumbled upon a thing that I found first,

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Speaker 3: which is insanity when you think.

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Speaker 1: About like how quickly those stories go up on the

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Speaker 1: face WITHOK, how much or how quickly people share things.

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Speaker 2: One person will like, we'll like tweet us about it,

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Speaker 2: and then you just won't hear about it again.

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Speaker 1: Right, So I could see that.

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Speaker 3: I just think I got so obsessed with those leaves

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Speaker 3: that everything else kind of went faded out around it.

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Speaker 2: Pretty fucking great, I mean that was it was great

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Speaker 2: either way, it was great.

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Speaker 1: It was a fun experience. I'm sorry you have to

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Speaker 1: you had to.

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Speaker 3: I'm done apologizing for it. This is the third time,

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Speaker 3: third and final, the fucking did it live?

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Speaker 2: That?

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Speaker 1: Everybody about it again? We're taking that upisode down. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna take it down.

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Speaker 2: It's the last episode, Stephen. Stephen accidentally deleted it, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I hope everyone's topping. But now you know, I'll

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Speaker 3: be better at checking dates. And everybody was really funny.

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Speaker 3: The people who did post on Twitter were trying to

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Speaker 3: be so tactful and.

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Speaker 1: Light about it. Yeah, it where it was like, so

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be this person. But you're a

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Speaker 1: fucking decade off French.

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Speaker 2: It was just like, oh, man, well it happens.

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Speaker 1: Can't get it right.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to shout to shout out, oh God, what

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Speaker 2: am I fucking Veja?

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Speaker 1: Yes you are? I didn't you know. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: you're JJ Jackson.

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Speaker 2: One of the gifts we got, of course, we had

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Speaker 2: a ton of stuff in Utah because everyone's warming and

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Speaker 2: they just like craft. Like not everyone, they're all Mormon,

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Speaker 2: they're wizards. And so one of the things we got

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Speaker 2: was like a beautiful there was two earrings and two necklaces.

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Speaker 2: I found out it's called quilled, where you take a

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Speaker 2: piece of paper and you turn it into like a

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Speaker 2: flower or.

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Speaker 1: Whatever the fuck yep quilled.

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Speaker 2: So this girl named Mandy Lee took pages from my

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Speaker 2: sweet Audrina and made us gorgeous jewelry out of it

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Speaker 2: gorgeous and so she you can buy it at Artsy

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Speaker 2: Heartsy boutique on Etsy and see it.

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Speaker 1: And so I was looking her up.

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Speaker 2: She also did that that adorable line drawing or like

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Speaker 2: stick figury drawing of small foreign faction of us in

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Speaker 2: a band and you and I are playing over with

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Speaker 2: Elvis on the drums. Yeah, she made that too, So

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Speaker 2: she sells mugs and t shirts and shit of that

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Speaker 2: art print as well as my Sweet Audrina.

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Speaker 1: Quilled jewelry, and like she does the quill.

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Speaker 2: Jewelry is like her thing, and she does a ton

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Speaker 2: of Harry Potter book pages.

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Speaker 3: Nice. So I know a bunch of people who are

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Speaker 3: gonna like, yeah, it's like really pretty fucking jewelry.

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Speaker 1: And then it also is from my Sweet Audrina, which

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Speaker 1: is there were.

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Speaker 3: Little strips of paper on the back, like it would

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Speaker 3: be the thing that the earrings were like pressed into

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Speaker 3: or whatever, and then there would just be a strip

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Speaker 3: of like my sister Vera, So it was like these

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Speaker 3: lines from what it was from.

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Speaker 1: I love it, And I mean we get so many.

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Speaker 2: We're sitting amongst a pile like Post Steven stopping by

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Speaker 2: the po box picking up.

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Speaker 1: Boxes like fucking coolest shit gifts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, someone someone drunkenly accidentally went on it eBay and

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Speaker 2: drunkenly bought six packs of true crime trading cards, yes.

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Speaker 1: Only to find that in their state. Bought six boxes

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Speaker 1: of packs of trading cards. So sent us each a box.

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Speaker 1: I get a full box. I don't know how many

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Speaker 1: you're in here, but it's amazing a ton right Ton. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just it's just for so Look, it's like this

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Speaker 1: is the box they would sell it. The story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so cool. It's really cool.

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Speaker 3: Also, this is another additional crushes corner that somebody pointed

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Speaker 3: out that we weren't just talking about the terminator and Robocopo,

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Speaker 3: but you would also fold it in a little bit

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Speaker 3: of total recall into that story.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't even going to correct that because I feel

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Speaker 2: like that's not none of that's a mistake. It's just

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Speaker 2: fucking fate. And it's how this Oh what did you

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Speaker 2: say to the podcast? You said someone tweeted you and

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Speaker 2: was like, I hate to tell you guys, but you're uh,

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Speaker 2: you were talking about two different movies, and you said,

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Speaker 2: like you tweeted back, are you new?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no.

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Speaker 3: It was like it was basically a guy who and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he was a fair but he was Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he was just going they were talking about this, but

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Speaker 3: then they actually turned it into this and then this, uh, and.

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Speaker 1: They never stopped. It was like this basically a statement.

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Speaker 3: We never acknowledged it or even knew what was happening,

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Speaker 3: and I just wrote back, you must be new hair,

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Speaker 3: because it's just like when doesn't that fucking happen?

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Speaker 2: I wasn't going correction score of that thing. It's because

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Speaker 2: like we just fucking kept going and I believed you

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Speaker 2: and you.

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Speaker 1: Believed in me. I could see it all in my head.

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Speaker 1: Might have been a little bit of men black in

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Speaker 1: there too, for all. I now here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear your podcast, and how great

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Speaker 3: that's kind of fuck and.

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Speaker 2: How zero mistakes, how fucking made when let us talk

347
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Speaker 2: on the cuffs, let us fucking talk.

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Speaker 1: And one of you has a whiskey. Oh.

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Speaker 3: I just also wanted to say, I just want to

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Speaker 3: give a public formal apology to my dog George, who

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Speaker 3: sure did you see this, Stephen George, My fiercely private dog, George,

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Speaker 3: who doesn't want to be a part of this podcast

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Speaker 3: in anyway. I did this little video of her because

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Speaker 3: she always drinks my fucking water.

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Speaker 2: She didn't just drink you made a video where she

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Speaker 2: basically if dogs could double flip you off. Yes, she

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Speaker 2: fucking did a walk bite, drink out of your mug

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Speaker 2: and then Karen dryly going, that's mine, that's mine, bess.

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Speaker 3: She and it's only a four second video. I highly

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Speaker 3: recommend if you want to express yourself in any way,

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Speaker 3: do it under five seconds.

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Speaker 1: People really appreciate it totally. But she looks right.

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Speaker 3: At me, and then when I say that's mine, she

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Speaker 3: wags her tail and walks away because like she knows

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Speaker 3: she's supposed to be doing it. It's very cute, but then.

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Speaker 1: All these people gorgeous, so it's like she's a lovely lady.

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Speaker 3: I like that dog because she looks different, like when

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Speaker 3: she's drinking the water. Her ears are all long and

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Speaker 3: flat and she looks like a hound. But if she

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Speaker 3: hears like a squirrel in the backyard, then her ears

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00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 3: flap up and she looks like a lab like.

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Speaker 1: She just changes constantly. She's like Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes she wears a really big turtle neck and then

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Speaker 3: sometimes she wears a mock Turtleletskeith are.

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Speaker 1: Real fucked up.

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Speaker 3: That's what got her, uh, but she ended up becoming

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Speaker 3: a Twitter moment.

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Speaker 1: And then so all these people that told the listeners

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, George's famous, You're got so mad. I

380
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Speaker 1: saw your response to what this is? Fucked up?

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Speaker 3: I know I was well the first whoever send it

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Speaker 3: to me. First I thought they were making a joke,

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Speaker 3: and so then when I looked at it was like,

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Speaker 3: what the hell, Like what is happening?

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Speaker 1: Because I don't understand how. I don't either the little

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00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,919
Speaker 1: Moment's page I get, it's like it's just for you.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: And meanwhile I'm sitting here with Elvis, petting him, and

389
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Speaker 2: all he's been doing his whole life is trying to

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Speaker 2: fucking famous on viral on the internet. And he's like

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Speaker 2: this fucking bit.

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Speaker 1: The bitch comes in off the side. Uh huh, she's

393
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Speaker 1: very mad and she's not talking to me. All this

394
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Speaker 1: will ride her down the set of stairs. You know.

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Speaker 2: He did that once with a dog. Really, I found astray.

396
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,879
Speaker 2: I brought it in my backyard. I lived like up

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Speaker 2: a staircase, and I went in to get some food.

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Speaker 1: For this stray. It was like like George, like a

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Speaker 1: dog that size.

400
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Speaker 2: And then I came out to like squeeze through the

401
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Speaker 2: door to bring this dog the food, and Elvis broke

402
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Speaker 2: through the door and the dog was at the top

403
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Speaker 2: of the stairs waiting for the food. Elvis jumped on

404
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Speaker 2: the dog's back, rode it down the stairs and chased

405
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Speaker 2: it rode a dog chased it out of the yard.

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Speaker 1: Wow, the dog didn't come back. And he's like, I'll

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Speaker 1: take that food please, that's mine now, Oh what a

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Speaker 1: good boy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and we're back.

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Speaker 1: We're back.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember. I remember your dad coming to

412
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 2: the live show. I remember my parents coming to live shows.

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00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 2: My sister's still never been to a live show, which

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Speaker 2: I mean, should.

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Speaker 3: I call her on the phone. Should I call her

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Speaker 3: and just be like, listen, let's talk this through.

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Speaker 2: It's so my sister and I that she doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to participate, and I won't ask her to. Yes, I

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00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 2: expect her to like go above and beyond for me,

420
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 2: because I would never expect someone to go above and

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Speaker 2: beyond for me, even my own fucking sister.

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Speaker 3: You know, yep, of course you're not supposed to have me,

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Speaker 3: So you're the little sister. You're lucky to be in

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Speaker 3: the room.

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Speaker 2: And I bet she'd be so happy if I said

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Speaker 2: I would, I really want you to be there. It's

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Speaker 2: so important for you to be like, why haven't I've

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00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 2: been vulnerable enough to tell her like how I bet

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00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 2: that would make her feel really good. If I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't care if you're there, you don't have to come.

431
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 2: You're so right, it's nice, But I'm doing it for her,

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00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 2: she's doing it for me, and we're both not doing

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00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 2: the things for each other.

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Speaker 3: Well, just I think that she would get a real

435
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 3: fucking kick out of what she sees when she's there. Absolutely,

436
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 3: and I'm sure she's like, my life is what it is.

437
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 3: Therefore I'm not going to be like trying to push

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Speaker 3: in where, right, I mean I could, I can completely

439
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,640
Speaker 3: see what you're saying where she's just kind of like,

440
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 3: if you're not going to ask me, I'm not going

441
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Speaker 3: to go and vice versa.

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00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want your sister there.

443
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very sister Lee though, because that's that's just history.

444
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 3: That's just like you anticipating her telling her what she

445
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 3: thinks and feels and then acting from there, which was

446
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 3: what we were raised to do.

447
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she says the same, next time we have

448
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 2: a live show, we're gonna make her come, no matter

449
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 2: where it is, fucking Iceland, whatever, We're gonna pray you're

450
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: on stage, and then please.

451
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 1: Have a live show in recuavec Iceland.

452
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, in that fucking hot in sauna thing.

453
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,159
Speaker 1: The Blue Lagoon.

454
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 3: We're fucking from the Blue Lagoon, live from the Blue Lagoon,

455
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 3: with fucking our hair covered in mud. We fucking come

456
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 3: up out of the water covered in mud, just our eyes.

457
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 3: This is gonna be incredible. And Lee, you get to

458
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,719
Speaker 3: you get to come. You will be a guest on

459
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 3: that show, guest of honor, and then Janet is the

460
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,680
Speaker 3: second guest. Oh Jesus, and of course Jim is gonna

461
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 3: close it out.

462
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sweating now. We did go to Mosta one. Frank, Yeah, Vince.

463
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,479
Speaker 1: Doesn't remember, he doesn't. No, I totally remember.

464
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 3: I feel like the background setting it Musso and Franks

465
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 3: always looks exactly the same. So when I think of

466
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 3: dinners there, I'm like, ooh, that could have been this one,

467
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 3: this one, or this one.

468
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 2: Totally because I think we did sit in the same

469
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: booth that we later sat with my mom and my

470
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: stepdad in. So it's like fill in the blank. You've

471
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 2: had a couple of whiskeys, you have a fucking gunfight

472
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 2: in the morning, so you're not gonna remember one or

473
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 2: the other.

474
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: You know what, do you get a gun fight in

475
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: the morning, right?

476
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

477
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 3: Home, Jim, really he flourishes at Musson Franks for some reason,

478
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: that really is the setting for him, and then.

479
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 2: Not being able to hear me, so shoot, I love it.

480
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 3: He's very good at faking it when you can't hear.

481
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 3: I absolutely have stolen that from him and just pretended

482
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 3: like I can't hear people many times.

483
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: It's my favorite.

484
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 2: Love that guy, Love that Gal kill gariffs all around.

485
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: What a team, what a group? What a group?

486
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 3: And we can say the same about the hard Starks.

487
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 3: If Lee would just show up.

488
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:57,919
Speaker 2: We wouldn't know.

489
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: We just don't know.

490
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: Is Lore. It's just Lore, just Lee Lore. I do

491
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: still have the Quill jewelry, Yes, I still have it.

492
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: I still think it's gorgeous. I still think it's like

493
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: such a good gift to get someone their favorite book

494
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: turned into beautiful jewelry. Artsy heartsy boutique is still in

495
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: action on Etsy for Manda Lee, so definitely go check

496
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 2: that out. I think, yeah, like, what book would you

497
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: want jewelry from? Like this just is so meaningful. I

498
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: love that.

499
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: I guess the.

500
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 3: Art of War and it would be like a crown.

501
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: It would be the center jewel on a crown.

502
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: Okay, or motorcycle maintenance and the art of motorcycle maintenance.

503
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 3: And it's spray painted on the back of a jacket.

504
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 3: Those are our two items.

505
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: That were going to great great leather jackets are jewelry, right, definitely.

506
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 3: I did like the question, which is, what's your favorite

507
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: thing anyone's ever given us that that people have made.

508
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: For us at a live show?

509
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 2: What's yours?

510
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 3: I mean, I will say this, when things really started

511
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: getting really tory for us, when we would get into

512
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 3: a dressing room and there would already be a gorgeously

513
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 3: decorated dozen cupcakes or cakes or like, we have come

514
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 3: into dressing rooms where the murdery knows in that city

515
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: like made it this beautiful setting for us. I mean

516
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 3: things like that where people are like clearly have taken

517
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 3: a lot of time and care.

518
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 2: Are the baseball bats from what's it called Slugger baseball.

519
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: Bats that my dad has hanging in the foyer of

520
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: his home.

521
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: Wow, up on the wall, not hidden in the guest bathroom.

522
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: No, my mother would fucking kill him. She would never.

523
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: My sister walked in and goes, did you see what

524
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: Mom wasn't here too?

525
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 2: My god, that's so sweet.

526
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: I know, I very small with that Wow, so crazy,

527
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 1: thanks Louisville.

528
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 2: That like he did that is so sweet that he

529
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: did it, and your mom would hate it is like doubling.

530
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: Down, you know, right, he's kind of like I got

531
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 3: to hang up what I like and it's like, okay,

532
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 3: it was It's Nora's soft traveling softball team photo and

533
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: then that baseball bat.

534
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: But okay, there's a theme. At least he's got a

535
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: theme going.

536
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: It's totally bad remark.

537
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: You're so right that like, live show gifts are in

538
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: a different level because we are surprised in the moment

539
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: in front of that person or backstage or whatever in

540
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: a way that like someone else getting them from the

541
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: po box, showing us yes, as being able to look

542
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: in the eye or like call out in the audience

543
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 2: of what someone made is so and then or them

544
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: handing it to us is so fucking special.

545
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 3: And what about the time they brought you this stuffed

546
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 3: animal velvest but they weren't giving it to you. Yeah,

547
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: I mean also it's funny too the snapshots of like

548
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: when we talk about live shows and we like there's

549
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 3: there will be one thing and you just be like, oh,

550
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 3: it's like it just happened It's very strange because for

551
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: me anyway, that being at theaters that big doing oh well,

552
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 3: I mean just killing kind of killing by definition of

553
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 3: showing up on the stage and then afterwards getting to

554
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 3: like enjoyed and send it was just for me such

555
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: a like stand up comedy dream come true. So then

556
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,239
Speaker 3: just any of the gifts on the top, it was

557
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: all like Cherry's on top.

558
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: I feel like it was such a gift in a

559
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 2: weird way. Early on that I was drinking a lot

560
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: before the live shows because I was really nervous. I'd

561
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: never done anything like that before. I said I need

562
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: you there with me, which like really hit me hard,

563
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: and so like, aside from baby like a shot once

564
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 2: in a while before the show, like right before we

565
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: go on, I haven't drank or you know, I haven't

566
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: been drunk at all. I've been mostly no, totally sober

567
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: on stage, which I never would have done on my own.

568
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: And so I can remember every part of it, which

569
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: is so like, what a gift that we gave me together.

570
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: Because well we did give it to you though, because

571
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: what I will give you full credit for is you

572
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: ask the question before that show. I think it was

573
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: like one of the second or third ones we did.

574
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: I think it was in the Bay Area.

575
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: It was, and you.

576
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: Said, is there anything you want to tell me? And

577
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: I feel like maybe you were thinking about it yourself

578
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: and wanted me to confirm or something. Sure, but the

579
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: fact that you fucking did it, like I basically was

580
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: going to be like, hey, a word to the wise.

581
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: You got to get through this the way you can

582
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: because this isn't easy, and this isn't like standard, and you.

583
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: Don't want to do it alone. It's such a like, yeah,

584
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: I'm there with you, but everyone knows when you're drunk,

585
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: you're not you and you're not there.

586
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like standing five feet behind yourself thinking you're

587
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: right there, right, And that especially for when the audience,

588
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: when we are engaged, they're right there with us. If

589
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 3: we're not connected, they have nothing to latch onto, and

590
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 3: that's when it's all like from the back.

591
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, No one wants to see a drunk girl doing

592
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: her own thing. You know, we've seen it. I don't

593
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: want to see that.

594
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: We've lived it.

595
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's great, and I and fully commend you

596
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: to do such a hard thing sober. When that's I

597
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: believe me, I'm fully on board with not doing things

598
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 3: sober and like getting through things that are especially hard things.

599
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: But that one it was like, please trust me and

600
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: come and mainline live performance with me.

601
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: Ah yeah, great, good, great.

602
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Great, fine, you win that one.

603
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: I did it.

604
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: We did it.

605
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: I did it. We did it. We asked, we perceived,

606
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: We've got, we did.

607
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: We opened up got. Vulnerability is hard. Yeah, when podcasting

608
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: is hard.

609
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 2: Podcasting's hard. Life shows are hard, but it's harder to

610
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: not remember it or to feel like you don't know

611
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 2: what happened and to have shame over that. I'd rather

612
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: have shame over my sober performance than shame over not

613
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: remembering my performance.

614
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 3: And when have you ever felt shame about your sober performance?

615
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 3: Because you kill you kill it, you know how to

616
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: do it, You've done it.

617
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even if I don't, it's it came from me.

618
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: It's okay, that's right?

619
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Amen?

620
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: Amen? All right? Should we get into our stories?

621
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: Yes, right now, We're going to get into Georgia's story

622
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: about the death of nurse Cindy James.

623
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: Who's first Uh yeah too, Yes, drinking. I love going

624
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: first drink.

625
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 3: If your first drink it your first drink, if you're

626
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: wearing a house dress.

627
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: Aps, fucking you know what?

628
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: I left my favorite house dress in uh Cleveland?

629
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: You did how?

630
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: I just left it on There was a bath and

631
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: I left it near the bath.

632
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: Oh that sucks.

633
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: I'm so sad. So this is my replacement. Okay, So

634
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: this is this is something I found a rediscovered I

635
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: should say, from one of the articles of like I

636
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: just found like the ten Weirdest Unsolved Mysteries segments.

637
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: Okay, are you going into are you doing the thing

638
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: where now you're a good like bizarre?

639
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, there's a lot of good.

640
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of good YouTube videos, but there's

641
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: a lot of YouTube videos of those like.

642
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: The top five whatever. And for some reason.

643
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: People use voiceover like computer voice, computer voices. Yes, but

644
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: you can find a lot of interesting stuff there. And

645
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: so this is one of them that I had forgotten about,

646
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: but I know I saw when I.

647
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: Was a kid. It's criavy as fuck. Here we go. Okay.

648
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: On June eighth, nineteen eighty nine, sidebar my ninth birthday whatever,

649
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: in the Vancouver, British Columbia suburb of Richmond, the body

650
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: of forty four year old nurse Cindy James was found

651
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: in the yard of a a bandoned house. Oh I

652
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: forgot to say that this is about the death of

653
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: Cindy James.

654
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

655
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: Cindy had been drugged and strangled and her hands and

656
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: feet had been tied behind her back. Her feet had

657
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: been tied behind her back.

658
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: Well if she's hogtied, yeah, she wasn't.

659
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: Oh, but the police weren't sure if Cindy's death was

660
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: an act accident, or if a murder, or if she

661
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: had committed suicide.

662
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: What by tying her hands?

663
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yes, exactly, Okay, all right, so let's get

664
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: into it.

665
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

666
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: Cindy who if she were to be played in a

667
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: you know, recreation of fucking this story, yep, or would

668
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: be played by Vanna White.

669
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: Oh nineteen eighties Vana White. So just like ideal everybody's

670
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: eighties ideal blonde.

671
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: Beautiful, blonde, vivacious, bright woman. She's a nineteen year old

672
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: nursing student. When she meets at the hospital of Vancouver

673
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 2: General Hospital, she meets doctor Roy make Peace sounds fake, right.

674
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: He's a psychiatrist and he's eighteen years older than her

675
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: and married with two kids, but they fall in love. Oh,

676
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: so nineteen year old Cindy falls in love with him.

677
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,239
Speaker 1: And sorry, he's twenty eight, eighteen years older than her

678
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: eighteen years so it's eighteen plus nineteen. I'm thirty one.

679
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: I'm truly the last person you should have asked that question, right,

680
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: ste No.

681
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: Forty one. Nobody here knows numbers. It's thirty seven. It's

682
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: thirty thirty.

683
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: Seven, okay, go to college kids?

684
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, can I quickly side? Always there's somebody that

685
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: tweeted and was like Karen, anytime Karen wants to name

686
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 3: something boring, she calls them an accountant, and it's like,

687
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: it's like the third accountant we've heard from. That's like,

688
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: we're really not as boring as you say we are.

689
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: And I feel really bad. I apologize to that person

690
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: who tweeted.

691
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: What's going to be the next one? Then it has

692
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: to be something else.

693
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: I'll think about it and it'll be something maybe jokier,

694
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: more lighthearted, and the one that'll hurt people's feelings less.

695
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: But I did still be mad at you. Whoever those

696
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: people are. How about Amish? The Amish that's boring, okay,

697
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: but they can contact me. What about candle makers. Good. Yes,

698
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: that's a hobby.

699
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: Okay, fucking its title wave of candle make your emails,

700
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: I'll make good good living.

701
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: Fuck you.

702
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: I oh my god, I have sure.

703
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,239
Speaker 1: Okay, ok here we are. Yes. They fall in love

704
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: with each other.

705
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: Within four days of Roy's divorce, he and Cindy are married.

706
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: Four days so, nineteen year old Cindy and twenty thirty

707
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: seven year old Roy are married, which is like, okay,

708
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: so I'm thirty seven. If I were boning a fucking

709
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: nineteen year old, you'd be like, what are you doing?

710
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, that is too young? Too young. And also,

711
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: but it's also the eighties. You know, he's having a

712
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: midlife crisis. Obviously, his wife and two kids are like,

713
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry what Yeah, okay, he's a doctor, you say,

714
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: he's a psychiatrist. Okay, so.

715
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So they get married. Cindy graduates from nursing school. Later,

716
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 2: she becomes an administrator at a program for children with

717
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: behavioral and emotional issues. She's like the best. So after

718
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: sixteen years of marriage they didn't have kids. Cindy ends

719
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: things with doctor makepeace. It seems to be amicable. That's

720
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two, they split up and that's when

721
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: her life hits the fan. So four months into their

722
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: trial separation, Cindy starts to receive anonymous phone calls from

723
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 2: a man who knows her name, knows where she lives,

724
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: is like threatening her sometimes or just breathing into the

725
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: phone sometimes, and.

726
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: It was really scaring the shit out of her. It's

727
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: very scary.

728
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, after a week after the call start, someone smashes

729
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: her window and breaks in well, or breaks and smashes

730
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: her window while she's out. And later that same week,

731
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: an intruder somehow has a key to her house, gets

732
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: into the house and stabs her pillow over a dozen

733
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: times buck, which is like, shit, man.

734
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: I just realized.

735
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: I think I saw the headline for the story and

736
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 3: the Getty image for the story because there was a

737
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: knife on a pillow and it said this was I

738
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 3: like recently and it was like, this is the most

739
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: fucked up X.

740
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: Story you'll ever hear X story X. I don't know

741
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: what's X mean, Like her ex husband, I was like,

742
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: is that mk ultron? I don't know about I was

743
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: X stands for a word I don't want to say.

744
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: I get it.

745
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: I'm wrong, I'm wrong, wrong, Yes, no, you're you might

746
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: be right okay, but you're not.

747
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: Okay, got it could be got it is it? We

748
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: don't know, We certainly don't know, and we're not going

749
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: to say right now, is it it's it might be

750
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: an unsolved mystery. Oh, we don't know. Context clues. You

751
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 1: said it four.

752
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: Times and that show is it has been on like

753
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: this came. This was from like the fucking eighties, so

754
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: like you know, or nineties, from nineties okay, bah six

755
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 2: years much. They break up. She hits the fan, threatening

756
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: stabisher pillow okay. Bizarre notes written in kidnapping font aka

757
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: my favorite murder that's logo font yes begin to appear

758
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: on her doorstep and on her windshield of her car.

759
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: One card u has a picture of a woman who

760
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: looks like Cindy aka Vana White. The woman's eyes have

761
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: been scratched out, and another time the woman's throat like

762
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: there's red ink around her throat. The police investigate but

763
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: couldn't track anyone, and the phone calls she were getting

764
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: were too short to be traced, so they can't figure

765
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: out who's doing this.

766
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 3: Maybe somebody who knows how tracing calls works, though, dang dom,

767
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: great idea, thank you.

768
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: Other things happen, like her porch lights are smashed, her

769
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: phone lines get cut. All these things keep fucking happening.

770
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 2: She freaks out, She decides to move, and on January

771
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, nineteen eighty two, the.

772
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: First physical attack occurs.

773
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: Fuck Cindy's good friend and neighbor, Agnes Woodcock.

774
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: Leave it a laws for rumatic effect, pause for conversation

775
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: throughout the office.

776
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: I had agreed to spend the night so Cindy would

777
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: feel safer. So Agnes gets to say, sorry, how old

778
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 2: is Agnes?

779
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: I mean seventy two? You'd hope that's a non solution,

780
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: or is this.

781
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 2: Going to become another Bonnie where we at it's solucious

782
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 2: inviting an Agnes over as lok.

783
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 3: Yes, come on, yeah it is Agnes, a fucking Navy seal.

784
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 3: Then get her out of there. You don't need company.

785
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: If you feel threatened, get someone that's threatening.

786
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe Agnes is a fucking bodybuilder. Perhaps it's

787
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: your tail. I'll let you do. Let's not cast us versions. Okay,

788
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: this ends with Agnes being a bodybuilder. Oh no, it doesn't.

789
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: That's the big reveal. Yeah, big reveal. Okay.

790
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: Agnes gets there around nine point thirty at night. Cindy's

791
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: not answering the door, so she goes around.

792
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: To go to the back.

793
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, and she hears the moaning and Agnes finds

794
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,959
Speaker 2: Cindy on the ground with a black nylon stocking tied

795
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: her on her neck and some scratches on her body

796
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: and there they also find later a needlemark on her arm.

797
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: So Cindy tells authorities that she had been taking a

798
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: load of boxes out to the garage, you know, because

799
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: she's moving and shit yep, and finds that the light

800
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 2: was out, but in the dark, someone grabs her from behind.

801
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: She felt a pin prick on her arm and she

802
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: thinks she must have been drug because that's all she

803
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: remembers from the incident. And the police are like, this

804
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: is crazy, we're going to look into it. They look

805
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: into her ex husband X like stands for your ex.

806
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: Remember he's got an alibi for the time of the attack.

807
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 2: And investigators aren't able to find any signs of any

808
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: attacker at all, And there are never any calls when

809
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: the police are doing twenty four hour surveillance. There's never

810
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: any attacks. When that's happening. They always happen when the

811
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: police aren't around, and again the calls are untraceable, so

812
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: the police are starting to doubt Cindy stories. Her parents

813
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 2: thought the attacker clearly is smart enough to fucking not

814
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: come the fuck around when there's surveillance. Her friends and

815
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: family try to convince her to move into actually like

816
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: an apartment building where there's more people around, maybe to

817
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: get a vicious dog or something, but she's like, I'm

818
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 2: not fucking letting this take over my life. No, And

819
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 2: they also were because she would take she had a

820
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: small dog that she loved, and she would take the

821
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 2: dog out for walks at like three am and wouldn't

822
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: stop doing that. And they were like, we're freaking out

823
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: about it. But they thought it was weird that she

824
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't stop doing that.

825
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to adjust a little bit if you

826
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: are being threatened in some way, right, that whole thing

827
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 3: of I'm going to live my life exactly the way

828
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: that's not.

829
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, But she does move into a new house,

830
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: she paints her car, and she changes her last name

831
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: and that's how she becomes Cindy James. So she also

832
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: hires a private investigator named Ozzie Caban Caban Ozzie Caban,

833
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: which is like the best private investigator name ever.

834
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 3: Pretty Ozzy, Why like I E Osbourne? I E like Davis?

835
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: Okay he uh.

836
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: He says that she would be evasive at times and

837
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: was withholding information from him and police, but he did

838
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: believe everything she was saying.

839
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: He did think that she had a stalker and an attacker.

840
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: Her mother thought that, uh, because she was being evasive

841
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: because she was threatened and feared for her family's life,

842
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 2: and that's why that was happening. Her private investigator installed

843
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: the security lights around her house and gave her a

844
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: two way radio and a panic button just in case.

845
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: Oh that's good. Yeah.

846
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: So one night, Ozzie hears strange sounds coming from the

847
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 2: radio and rushes to Cindy's house. He finds Cindy lying

848
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: unconscious in the hallways. Like break down the door. She

849
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: has a paring knife through her hand and also like

850
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 2: a note in it. So like the pairing knife through

851
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: her note in a hand. You know what I'm saying, Yes,

852
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 2: like stuck through to the ground. I don't know how deep,

853
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: I don't know what or like wherever she was though, Yeah,

854
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: she was lying conscious, and then they put a note

855
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: in a paring knife in her hand.

856
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: The note said, you are dead, bitch.

857
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: Fuck. All she remembered from that attack was that a

858
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: needle it was put into her arm. And also she

859
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: seemed to remember that it was more than one person,

860
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: like there might have been two or three assailants oh

861
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: at the time, like a couple.

862
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: Of the attacks.

863
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: No fingerprints are found, there's no clues, there's no leads.

864
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: Aside from Cindy's injuries, there's no evidence anyone else have

865
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: been in the house.

866
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: So investigators are frustrated with.

867
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 2: Cindy and they are like, this chick is fucking doing

868
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: this on her own.

869
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: They think she's staging all of this.

870
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: So, hoping to convince investigators to take her more seriously,

871
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: Cindy's like, give me a fucking polygraph.

872
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 1: She fails a polygraph twice.

873
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 2: Oh no, the operator suggests the stress she was under

874
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: might have affected the results, and she's too embarrassed. She's embarrassed,

875
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: so she wants the investigation to be shut down. She

876
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: refuses to sign her statement and she says it's because

877
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: she's afraid for her family. Then December eleventh, nineteen eighty five,

878
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: a cyclist finds Cindy lying in a ditch six miles

879
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: from her home. She's day and semi conscious. She's suffering

880
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 2: from hypothermia, has cut some bruises all over her body,

881
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: and she again had a black nylon stocking around her neck.

882
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: All she's wearing is a man's.

883
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: Work boot and glove. She doesn't remember anything that could

884
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 2: help with the investigation.

885
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:17,479
Speaker 1: Man.

886
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: And then one night she has her friend's Agnes, our friend,

887
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: Agnes and her husband spend the night to keep her safe.

888
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 1: Her husband's there all right.

889
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 3: But he's tiny, but he's a little he's pocket sized,

890
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: a little baby.

891
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: They are all woken up in the middle of the

892
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: night because the basement of the house is on fucking fire. No, yeah,

893
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: the phone line had been cut. So Agnes husband, fucking

894
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 2: mister Agnes fucking runs out and sees a man standing

895
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: at the curb and yells to him to call the

896
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: fire department. But the man just runs off, which is like,

897
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: but everyone says, like the man just ran off and

898
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 2: everything you listen to and then it's like, maybe he

899
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: ran the fucking call nine one one, Oh.

900
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: That's true, you know what I mean? Yeah, he doesn't.

901
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: It's like, okay time, Yeah, I'm doing what you told

902
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: me to do. Yeah, I'm gonna run off. Maybe he

903
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 1: ran off and called nine on one.

904
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: Maybe we don't know. Maybe he didn't. Maybe he started

905
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: the fire. Maybe he didn't.

906
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: Maybe he was scared of yelling and he just ran

907
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: like he's walking his dog in the middle of the night.

908
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: We don't know.

909
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: Please determine that the fire was started from inside the

910
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: house because they saw no fingerprints on the window. They

911
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: think the purp would have used that window to get in.

912
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: There's no fingerprints. It's fucking jam vanel over again. They

913
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: determined that Cindy must have staged the incident, and there

914
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: was also another fire that happened another time that they

915
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: think she staged. Letters and phone calls continue. Cindy's like,

916
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: fucking no, one won't believe me that I'm being stocked

917
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 2: and threatened and attacked. She's freaking out about it. In

918
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: June nineteen eighty five, she's like going crazy. She tells

919
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: her physician that she wants to die. So she's diagnosed

920
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: with severe depression and committed to the psych word at

921
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 2: a hospital in North Vancouver.

922
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: Wow.

923
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So while she's there, she's examined by a psychiatrists

924
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: who says that Cindy's He determined Cindy's troubles are quote

925
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: self initiated. He said she'd fallen into a quote psychogenic fugue,

926
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: an altered consciousness stemming from a deep seated trauma, and

927
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 2: that she wasn't even aware that she was behind everything.

928
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So she's there for ten weeks and then

929
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: is released. Okay, what do you think so far? I

930
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: don't like that. Okay, it frustrates me.

931
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, and this is this is clearly just

932
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 3: off the top of my head. But you don't cut

933
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 3: your own phone line, you don't stab your own hand.

934
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: Like people. There are people who do things like this

935
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: all the time, and.

936
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: They do it in a way like the idea that

937
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 3: you would be going past the point of normal, like

938
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 3: I'm trying to swindle people. But like I think personally

939
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: psychopaths or people that try to manipulate a bunch of

940
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 3: people at once by like oh, my life is in

941
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: terror will not harm themselves to do that, or will.

942
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: Like not you know what I mean? Okay, but they

943
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: ad they harm their children Munchausen. Yeah, but that's not them.

944
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: That's an extension of them because there is Munchhausens.

945
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: Their hand does not get stabbed well, and also Munchhausen's

946
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 3: would be that would be an additional kind of issue.

947
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 3: But this is that thing of like if they're trying

948
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 3: to say, because what would the point of that be

949
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: getting the attention of the police, like she wants police attention,

950
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 3: I don't know, or emergency attention or something. What would

951
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: the point of strangling yourself with a a nylon bee

952
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 3: and wake up in the ditch with hypothermia? Like what

953
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 3: is she getting? What would the benefit be?

954
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is my that's a good question.

955
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: I couldn't be furring my brow further in total confusion and.

956
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: What the fuck? Okay, let's keep going because it's fucking weirder.

957
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: Oh okay, hold on, okay.

958
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: She gets out after ten weeks.

959
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 2: Then, on October twenty sec twenty sixth, nineteen eighty eight,

960
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: she's attacked for the fifth time and RCMP officer Mounted

961
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 2: Police Royal Canadian Mountain counted. Elie's officer discovered her unconscious

962
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 2: in her car, nude from the waist down. Her hands

963
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: are tied behind her back and she's squeezing the panic

964
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: button of her silent alarm. There's duct tape over her mouth,

965
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 2: there's bruising and swelling over one of her.

966
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: Eyes, and she has a.

967
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 2: Black nylon stocking tied around her neck. Again, she's dressed

968
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: to the hospital and but no one else's fingerprints are

969
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: at the scene. There's they bring in a fucking police dog.

970
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: There's no scent to pick up at all. There's no

971
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: indication that anyone else was present.

972
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: Okay.

973
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: She finally tells police that her tormentor is her ex

974
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: husband Roy makepeace. They encourage her, They want her to

975
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 2: phone him and confront him and tape the conversation.

976
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 1: Uh.

977
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: He really denies any involvement during the conversation, and in

978
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: fact he had he gave the police a recording from

979
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: his own answering machine that contained a death threat.

980
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: You want to hear it? Yeah? Wait? Okay, yes? Do

981
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: I know? Yes? Okay? Mmm? What no I do? Okay? No?

982
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: Hell? Whose podcast is shout out to the trail and

983
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: Cold with a rollin worder?

984
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: Sorry I stole that? What the fuck?

985
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 2: And so everyone I mean read it loves this fucking

986
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: story like it sounds I don't.

987
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: Read about it before. It does sound like a woman.

988
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 2: It does, so Roy thinks that Cindy has multiple personalities

989
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: and isn't even aware that.

990
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: She's doing these things to himself.

991
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: But he's like, I but I'm not behind this, and

992
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: they tend to believe him.

993
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 3: The psychiatrist, Yeah, hold on incoming, here's Roy and then

994
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 3: a train comes by.

995
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: Okay.

996
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: So she had been given those two lighter dector tests

997
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: and had been showing deceit in them, but she's given

998
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: a third one and when she's asked if she staged

999
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 2: one of the attacks, she says no, and she's judged.

1000
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: To be truthful. So there's like a little bit of

1001
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: both clay on.

1002
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: So, after almost seven years after the harassment started, Cindy

1003
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: is now forty four, goes missing on May twenty.

1004
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: Fifth, shit.

1005
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: Her car is discovered in the parking lot of a

1006
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: small shopping mall where she had gone that day to

1007
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: deposit her check and to do some grocery shopping. In fact,

1008
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: her groceries are found in the car. There's blood on

1009
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: the overside door of the car, and items from her

1010
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 2: wallet are found under the car. So this is after

1011
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: nearly one hundred well documented cases of harassment, including threatening

1012
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: phone calls, and notes vandalism and arson. Three dead cats

1013
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 2: were found in her yard.

1014
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: Oh I know, sorry.

1015
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: Stephen and me, and five violent physical attacks between nineteen

1016
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: eighty two and nineteen ninety eighty nine. Cindy's body is

1017
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: found dead two weeks after her car had been found.

1018
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: Cindy was found. Her body is found by a construction

1019
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 2: worker in the yard and of abandoned house a mile

1020
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: and a half from where her car had been parked.

1021
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: There's a fucking photo of it online. It's not gruesome,

1022
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: but she said, just horrible.

1023
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

1024
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: A black nylon stocking was tied tightly around her neck

1025
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: and the autopsy showed that Cindy died from an overdose

1026
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 2: of morphine and other drugs. There was a needle mark

1027
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: in her arm, but they had been taken orally. Oh yeah.

1028
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 2: So the Royal Canadian Mounted Police they believe that her

1029
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: death was an accident or suicide. They think she was

1030
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: responsible for her own death.

1031
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 1: Okay, So there's.

1032
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 2: A fucking crazy corner's inquest because they're like, did she

1033
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: was she killed by her stocker finally after six and

1034
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 2: a half years, or did she do this for herself?

1035
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: It becomes the lengthiest and most expensive public inquest in

1036
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 2: British Columbia's history.

1037
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: Wow, eighty four.

1038
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 2: Witnesses are called to testify. There's a not specialist who

1039
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 2: comes and is like, so her arms were tied behind

1040
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 2: her back, and then not specialists shows how she could

1041
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: have tied up her legs, then tied up her arms

1042
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: in front of her and stepped through to tie them

1043
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 2: up behind her back. Oh yeah, within three minutes he

1044
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: could have shown she could have done that. Also that

1045
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: uh da da da da da. So she had an

1046
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: overdose of morphine. But so people are like, how could

1047
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: she have done those things after taking morphine? But she

1048
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: had taken them orally, which meant she would have had

1049
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 2: like fifteen to sixty minutes before that kicked in to

1050
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: tie herself up and to walk to that spot a

1051
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: mile and a half from her car, So it was

1052
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 2: still possible she could have done it and maybe put

1053
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: the needle mark in her arm.

1054
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: As a like red hairing. Yes, that's the word, thank you.

1055
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: But also they didn't find a needle or vial or

1056
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: anything near her body or near her car.

1057
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 3: And sorry. The idea is she ties herself up and

1058
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 3: then takes a mile and a half walk.

1059
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 2: She takes a mile and a half walk or whatever,

1060
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: gets to this place somehow and then does the tying,

1061
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: then does the tying, maybe takes the morphine then and

1062
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 2: then dies. Okay, so da da da da dah. But

1063
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: also the weird but the weird thing too is that

1064
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: her body, the place where her body is found in

1065
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: the abandoned yard is really close to the street. You

1066
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: can see in an old video, like an old interview

1067
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: with her with Ozzie, her fucking police dude close to

1068
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: the street, almost like someone should have smelled it or

1069
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 2: saw her and nobody did. So that was where an

1070
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: Aussie who still believed her was like, that must mean

1071
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: that she had been dumped later close at the time

1072
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: when she was found.

1073
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, because somebody would have watched her walk in or

1074
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: like seen her around.

1075
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: Or smelled a body or seen her body lying because

1076
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 2: of me there, got it?

1077
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: Got it? So maybe so well? Okay.

1078
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: After three months of this coroner's inquest, the jury couldn't

1079
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 2: decide and called her death due to a quote unknown

1080
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 2: event whoa and the death is classified classified as undetermined

1081
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 2: and still is so. Of course, there's a shit ton

1082
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 2: of theories on the case and on writ especially no

1083
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: one agrees. I'm like, did she okay? Did she have

1084
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: a mental illness? Just dissociate identity disorders one of the

1085
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 2: things Munchausen schizophrenia. Some people are like, maybe it's star

1086
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: with an actual stalker and no one believed her, and

1087
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: so she kind of escalated it to make people believe

1088
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 2: her and accidentally did these things to herself. And then

1089
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 2: they look into like every single time she was found bound,

1090
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: it was near a place where she would have been

1091
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: found quickly, or she had the panic button in her

1092
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: hand so she would have never been left like long enough.

1093
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: She knew that Agnes was coming at nine thirty at night.

1094
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: She knew that she had the walkie talkie with Ozzie,

1095
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: and so he heard weird sounds and came over. She

1096
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: put her own body. You know, she expected to be

1097
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: found that last time when she died because she was

1098
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 2: near a walkway.

1099
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: Oh it just that no one actually, no one actually

1100
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: found you know what I mean.

1101
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 2: It's like, this is one of those cases where there's

1102
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 2: so many reasons behind both of the answers.

1103
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: Either she did it herself or there was.

1104
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: An actual murderer and stalker, and there's and you know

1105
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: even When I was writing this, and everyone has her

1106
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 2: own fucking opinion. Even I was writing this, I found

1107
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 2: myself leaving shit out because I thought she.

1108
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 1: Did it to herself.

1109
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: So I found myself leading stuff out that didn't support it,

1110
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: and I made myself put it back in because it's

1111
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: not fair.

1112
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's.

1113
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 3: Really easy to do, sure, well, And also you just

1114
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 3: want to make sense of it.

1115
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also to me, I'm like, obviously this, but

1116
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: it's not obvious.

1117
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 3: Also, I feel like she would have had and maybe

1118
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 3: no one's talking about this part because it would be

1119
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: so disrespectful of the dead. Did she have any signs

1120
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 3: of any mental illness before this stalking thing started? Because

1121
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: if not, if she was just regular pants and going

1122
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 3: about her day and handling things.

1123
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: Then that idea.

1124
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 3: It is so easy to call somebody crazy and be like, oh,

1125
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 3: this is a thing. Oh I can write this off

1126
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 3: because it's something she's just doing it to herself.

1127
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is like, but what like what for? Well? Really,

1128
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: that's a great question.

1129
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: And what's frustrating to about this case, which probably makes

1130
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 2: it so interesting too, is that you really only have

1131
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 2: these facts of her stock of what happened to her

1132
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: after her divorce, so we don't know. I couldn't find

1133
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 2: anything about her before she met her husband, right, so it's.

1134
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: Hard to tell.

1135
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: The psychiatrist that she went to when she got committed

1136
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 2: said that there was it's from past trauma, so who

1137
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 2: the fuck knows what that means. And she had this,

1138
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: you know, like everyone's saying that she had this traumatic

1139
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 2: life event with her divorce, but they, by all accounts,

1140
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: had an amicable separation, so it doesn't seem like it.

1141
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: Was totally traumatic, right. Well.

1142
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 3: And also one of the things that psychiatrist said it

1143
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 3: sounded like was something along the lines of multiple possible

1144
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 3: multiple personality, which they've proven isn't a real thing. Right,

1145
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 3: So there's those things where like there's a lot of.

1146
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: Like nineteen eighties old school shit terms.

1147
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 3: I just think cutting your phone line is such a

1148
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 3: dramatic way do your pone line. Like it fucks things up.

1149
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: It's you don't just get your phone turned back on. Yeah,

1150
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 3: like that's you won't have a land the line in

1151
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: the eighties for like two weeks until they come and

1152
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 3: fix it.

1153
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: Well, maybe she fucking likes that because then she can't

1154
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: get these calls anymore.

1155
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: I mean I'm not like, I don't know, but that's yeah,

1156
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: that's dramatic and people have to come to your aid

1157
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: and it is a big deal and so, but it

1158
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: also isn't harming you.

1159
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: So it's this like someone cut my phone lines seems

1160
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: like a big deal.

1161
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 2: It's the same thing of like I guess nowadays it

1162
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 2: would be someone stole my phone.

1163
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: Right or whatever.

1164
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it all these things are these things that

1165
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: are I'm I don't know which one it is and

1166
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: I can't say. So I can see the point of why.

1167
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: It's why she would do these things to herself for attention.

1168
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: It makes sense to me, Yeah, I just it doesn't

1169
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: The attention part doesn't make sense, although I'm not denying

1170
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: that's a thing people get where it's almost like then

1171
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: the ambulance came and it was so exciting or whatever.

1172
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, it just seems like, well to me, it's

1173
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: so much more likely a woman, especially a woman if

1174
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: she look like something like Vana White the eighties or

1175
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: nineties had a stalker and a person who was trying

1176
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: to make her go crazy and torture her. But how

1177
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: did they find no trace of him for six and

1178
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: a half years. Well, to me, it sounds like, I

1179
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: mean clearly that the.

1180
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: Cops discounted her really early and so didn't bother looking

1181
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: for shit.

1182
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 3: Also could have been that could have been that the

1183
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 3: stalker was a cop and knew all the inside shit.

1184
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: Well, we got some shit then to talk about. Ah shit,

1185
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:27,479
Speaker 1: y'all all right?

1186
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 3: Because also that thing when you said the thing about

1187
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 3: the dogs not getting a scent, But they have to

1188
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: know what they're smelling for to do it in the

1189
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 3: first place. So yeah, if it's only her smell, they

1190
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 3: need a sock from the person they suspect.

1191
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: They don't just find a scent and run to a

1192
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: person that makes That's very true.

1193
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 3: I only know that from our friend and someone knows

1194
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 3: something I know all about those.

1195
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: You should be a royal Canadian mountain. Oh I will, okay,

1196
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 2: So let's talk about a couple of suspects, all right.

1197
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: Constable Pat McBride was the first investigator to look into

1198
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: Cindy's claims way back in nineteen eighty two. He ended

1199
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: up getting involved with her romantically pretty quickly and moved

1200
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 2: in with.

1201
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: Her for a brief period.

1202
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 2: Their relationship ended when he asked her to marry him

1203
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 2: and she said no. Okay, so he was a fucking

1204
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 2: cop and spurned but he was one of the only

1205
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 2: police who believed and supported her that she had a stalker.

1206
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: But it's like, of course you're like.

1207
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I totally believe that, you know, yes, that's

1208
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: a perfect hiding, right.

1209
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: But maybe to his friends he was like, she's fucking crazy. Yeah. Yeah, And.

1210
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 2: So he was looked into as a suspect and cleared.

1211
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: Four years after Cindy's death, pat pleaded guilty to two

1212
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 2: incidents of sexually assaulting women. Uh oh, and he had

1213
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 2: been under psychiatric care since nineteen eighty four because of

1214
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: a personality disorder.

1215
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: Okay, which is like, I mean, who isn't.

1216
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 3: We would hope not all police people and people that

1217
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 3: are supposed to uphold the law right age.

1218
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: So he was looked into and cleared. But that's that's

1219
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: some shit to consider. That's a real swamp.

1220
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

1221
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,479
Speaker 2: Also, okay, here's okay, here's the fun part. This isn't fun.

1222
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: Here's the part. Wow.

1223
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 2: When Cindy was under hypnosis at one point to try

1224
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: to remember who had attacked her in more details, she

1225
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: had a memory of being on a trip with her

1226
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 2: ex husband doctor makepeace.

1227
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: Shortly before their divorce, they were with a.

1228
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 2: Doctor named James Tyehurst, and she said she witnessed them

1229
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 2: doing something sinister, including cutting up bodies, like had killed

1230
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: people and were cutting up bodies. She remembered that during hypnosis.

1231
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: So it turns out this fucking dude, doctor James Tihurst,

1232
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: look him up t y h rsc He had been

1233
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 2: sexually abusing some of his female patients and he was

1234
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 2: arrested just four months after Cindy's death, and in nineteen

1235
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 2: ninety one he was convicted on five counts of sexual

1236
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: and indecent assault and ended up paying one of his

1237
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: victims half a million.

1238
00:58:58,560 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: Dollars in damages.

1239
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 2: He was one of those psychiatrists that would do that

1240
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 2: thing where that he would make them sign a fucking

1241
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 2: master and slave thing to be like you have daddy issues,

1242
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: here's how to get past them, Like you need to

1243
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 2: let me take over your life. And then some occasions

1244
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 2: he would like have them take their shirt off and

1245
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 2: whip them.

1246
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: He was like a fucking psychopath and he was a

1247
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: psychiatrist and.

1248
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 3: Basically leading these women to believe he was healing.

1249
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: That part of their process.

1250
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, dark, So here we go conspiracy theory time because

1251
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 2: I just finished fucking Wormwood on Netflix. Highly recommend everyone

1252
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 2: watches all the way through. It's so good. It's so good. Okay,

1253
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 2: so I totally believe this part. Doctor Tyhurst worked with

1254
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: the CIA in the nineteen fifties, uh huh in experiments

1255
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 2: involving brainwashing, including he worked on a project called Project Artichoke,

1256
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: which turned into.

1257
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: Ultra Jesus M. K Alder started as a Project art

1258
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: a show.

1259
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 2: So for everyone doesn't know, the project studied hypnosis forced

1260
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 2: morphine addiction. Was she died from a fucking morphine over

1261
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 2: That's right? She did?

1262
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: I say morphine? Yes you did?

1263
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: And uh And they also study the subsequent force withdrawal

1264
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 2: of morphine and the use of chemicals including LSD to

1265
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 2: produce amnesia and other vulnerable states and subjects. Fucking agg

1266
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: go watch Wormwood if you think that that's bullshit, right,

1267
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: fucking the corgibal fighting, I will fight you.

1268
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 3: I just want to be in the meeting where people

1269
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,479
Speaker 3: are like, look, we're doing some pretty great sinister shit

1270
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 3: at We're dosing everyone with acid, We're making people pretend

1271
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 3: to commit suicide. We cannot call ourselves Project art to

1272
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 3: choke anymore. It doesn't suit us, it doesn't suit the project.

1273
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 2: But and then one guy goes, what about the layers?

1274
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: You peel one art of choke like leaf off And.

1275
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 3: They're like, Stanley, you've had your time at the table.

1276
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 3: Now we're talking about the future. Kayo to our bust

1277
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 3: and they're like, that sounds creepy. All I want is

1278
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 3: for future fucking true crime podcasts to have a cool

1279
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 3: name and not laugh at project artist shows. That's right, MK,

1280
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 3: I'll try this. But now, so I want a project Artichoke.

1281
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: That's right. That's our new fucking business venture.

1282
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 2: Project also happens to be Elvis's favorite food, Arta chokes.

1283
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: It's a fucking full circle.

1284
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 2: So did she witness her husband and they broke up

1285
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 2: pretty quickly after, and fuck doctor Tiburn fucking doing some

1286
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 2: sinister shit. And doctor Tibern is like, well, I'm going

1287
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: to fucking mind control the shit out of her for

1288
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: six and a half years so she doesn't no one

1289
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 2: believes what she's saying.

1290
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: And we make her seem like a totally crazy woman

1291
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: that would do this thing voluntarily to get attention. Therefore,

1292
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: she has no credibility with her family with her friends, So.

1293
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 2: We call it fucking Constable Pat mcbriden's and give him

1294
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars to be in on it.

1295
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: This guy's all the way to the middle Middle Arta choke.

1296
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 2: No, did this shit in garlic butter and put it

1297
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: to fucking bed God.

1298
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: So either way.

1299
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 2: She, if she was doing it herself, which I believe

1300
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 2: sixty percent, she didn't know she was doing it.

1301
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: It's horrible and sad.

1302
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 3: So you think it was a puppet master situation where

1303
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 3: she wasn't She wasn't doing it because of a psychotic

1304
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 3: break or some kind of thing.

1305
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: It was because of that.

1306
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 2: No, I think she I think she had some severe

1307
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: mental illness that dissociated I don't know what by I

1308
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: don't know what. And listen, everyone knows. I'm not fucking

1309
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: saying that people who are who have mental illness are

1310
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: fucking crazy, because I have, HI, I have.

1311
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm welcome, Welcome to my life.

1312
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 2: But it does seem like there's a lot of a

1313
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: lot of everything that happened can be reasoned that she

1314
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: was doing these things to herself and didn't know about it.

1315
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: And if that's true.

1316
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 2: How sad is it that she had to live through

1317
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: that of her own mental horry. If it's fucking not

1318
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 2: true and there was someone doing these things to her

1319
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 2: and no one believed her and thought she was crazy?

1320
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: How fucking sad is that every direction? It's it's an

1321
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: insane case.

1322
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: And I don't think we'll ever know, because you know,

1323
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 2: there's just not there's not enough.

1324
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: Especially if you start to link it to the CIA

1325
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 3: or m Kalter something that you can. These days, it

1326
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 3: feels more and more like, oh yeah, that's possible. Yeah,

1327
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 3: oh yeah, some deep.

1328
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,919
Speaker 1: Well they did this shit, man, like they really did?

1329
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: They really did it? Have I mentioned Wormwood? Do I

1330
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: have to say it again? How many times? But it's

1331
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: funny because I've heard this story about her and you

1332
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: really not you personally. This story gets told really with

1333
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: this thing of like, here's this horrible thing, but also

1334
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: isn't even crazier she was doing it to herself, So

1335
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: you almost get served this worst case scenario, you know

1336
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it's a more interesting story if

1337
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: she was doing it to herself, or it's a more

1338
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: it's twist.

1339
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 2: It's I think what's so interesting about it is that

1340
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 2: nobody knows, and it feels awful either way, either place,

1341
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 2: you land on it, it feels awful because she's still

1342
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: you know, she still was tormented.

1343
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 3: And no matter what, right, I'm just saying, you don't

1344
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 3: cut your own phone line. Okay, I'm just saying, no

1345
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 3: one cuts a landline. First of all, how do you

1346
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 3: even fucking do it?

1347
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: You love the thing that you have fucking a problem with.

1348
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: It's the only thing that I have in this life's.

1349
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: But it's so like for people who have never had

1350
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: landlines or it didn't rely on them, you don't know

1351
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: how serious you are about this.

1352
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 3: It's kind of like how I don't know if it's

1353
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 3: still this way, but like I mean, I don't know

1354
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: if it's like a known thing or whatever. But it's

1355
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 3: like you just couldn't get anybody to get anything taken.

1356
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: Care of in a short amount of time. Yeah, so

1357
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: that whole.

1358
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 3: Thing of like the window is between Tuesday and Friday,

1359
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 3: and they'll come whenever they feel like, Yeah, I don't know,

1360
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 3: for something like a phone, I just don't see it happening.

1361
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 3: Also the other day, I was sitting at home and

1362
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, my power went out, And of

1363
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 3: course the first time I think.

1364
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 1: Is I didn't bae my bill. Everyone thinks that.

1365
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 3: But then it came back on and then it went

1366
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 3: off again, and it was like three o'clock in the afternoon.

1367
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 3: I was just laying there watching TV. I was like scared,

1368
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: like white hot scared because I'm like someone's outside turning

1369
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 3: my power off.

1370
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and here the bomb drop. Finally.

1371
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. I took it more of a one on one.

1372
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 3: I was gonna have to like get into a knife

1373
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 3: fight with somebody.

1374
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: But it just shows what the things were scared about.

1375
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and they're always with us and they're always there,

1376
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 2: and Xenix doesn't help.

1377
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 3: It does well, it'll still happen. You just don't register anything.

1378
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: Well, there's so many nuances in this case do And

1379
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 2: I urge people to go to fucking read it and

1380
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 2: unexplained uh message boards and just look up everyone's theories

1381
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 2: because it's so interesting.

1382
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone has.

1383
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 2: These theories and then they and every comment is fucking yeah,

1384
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: but you know, and it's and they're all right, it's.

1385
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: Just yeah, it seems like it could truly be. It

1386
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: could go any direction, Like people.

1387
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 2: Answered the phone when they were at her house with

1388
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 2: her standing there and no one was on the line. Yeah,

1389
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 2: but no one ever answered the phone and there was

1390
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 2: someone talking on the line, you know what I mean,

1391
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, that kind of thing.

1392
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: Also, I really fucking hated that phone call. Like somebody say,

1393
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: that's why I play that.

1394
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 3: Somebody's standing there trying to be threatening.

1395
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: It's like, it's not.

1396
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 3: The voice or it's the idea that a person is

1397
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 3: on the other line thinking to do that to.

1398
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: Someone who's trying to scare the shit out of you.

1399
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just so fucking weird. Soon phones won't exist,

1400
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 3: that's the dream.

1401
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 2: Talking to anyone won't exist. Just let's it'll all be

1402
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 2: podcast text text.

1403
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: Me like two emojis. Get it. Get the idea across.

1404
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 2: If you want to tell me anything, make a podcast,

1405
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 2: podcast about it, send me the podcast if it doesn't

1406
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 2: get if it gets under top ten in iTunes, I'll

1407
01:06:58,360 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 2: listen to what you have to say.

1408
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, that's good. What time you want to know?

1409
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: What time? What time? Make a podcast about it? In

1410
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: a podcast. So that's the story of Cindy James and

1411
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: her death.

1412
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 3: Well that's fascinating. I definitely have heard of it before,

1413
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 3: but I didn't know her by name. Okay, we're back,

1414
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 3: are there updates for.

1415
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 2: This No updates, And I did some digging, and it's

1416
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: just everyone is still debating the quote evidence. But in

1417
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 2: September twenty twenty one, the podcast called Death by an

1418
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 2: Unknown Event was released covering this case, and it was

1419
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 2: narrated by actress Pamela Adlon, of course, who's so great.

1420
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,439
Speaker 2: She's you know, in the show Better Things and Grease too.

1421
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,439
Speaker 2: And there's also a book about it that I haven't read.

1422
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 2: It's called Who Killed Cindy James by Ian Mulgrew, And

1423
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 2: I don't know what side it takes, but I'm very

1424
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: interested in reading a whole book about it because this

1425
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 2: case is just such a head scratcher and so fucking tragic. Yeah,

1426
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 2: let's get into Karen's story about the tragedy of the

1427
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 2: Mixtay family murders.

1428
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 3: But it's funny because the way you said that and

1429
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries style, right, it was on Unsolved Mysteries.

1430
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: My murder today is also one that I was like, Hey,

1431
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 1: whatever happened to that story? Love?

1432
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 3: It did one of those yeah, And also I did,

1433
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 3: and this I understand I've been leaning on a lot lately, But.

1434
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: Who fucking cares?

1435
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,799
Speaker 3: Our fuck podcast The way I'm trying to find stories

1436
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 3: is to go on iTunes and then just look under

1437
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 3: true crime and see what they have, Like what because

1438
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 3: the ID channel at this point now they have every

1439
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 3: water feature style murder. It's like swamp murders and pool

1440
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 3: murders and fucking shallow puddle.

1441
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: Somehow they're able to turn it into a half an

1442
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,560
Speaker 2: hour show when it's really like that husband.

1443
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 3: Killed her, right, But it's but because in essence, it's

1444
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 3: so fascinating that you don't you don't need much, so

1445
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:01,759
Speaker 3: I can't keep up with a lot.

1446
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: Of those ones.

1447
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's a really good one water feature.

1448
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: Take a minute, you know, it comes up in the story.

1449
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: That's why it was on the on the top of

1450
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: my head.

1451
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 3: But James Patterson has a new like reenactment crime series

1452
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 3: that I found, like I think I stumbled upon. I

1453
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 3: highly recommend it. He's at the top. He does this

1454
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 3: goofy introduction. You know, James Patterson is the novelist and

1455
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 3: he like he has.

1456
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: His own commercials, WHI will be like my new book

1457
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: will draw You're crazy. He looks like someone's grandpa.

1458
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 3: So I started watching this because I'm like, I bet

1459
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 3: this is gonna be real cheesy. It is so wonderfully

1460
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: produced and acted and really well written. And they're true.

1461
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 3: They're true crimes. They're like, it's not fictional?

1462
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,839
Speaker 1: Is it called waterfall murders? It's good? What water feature?

1463
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 1: It's called? Who didn't turn off the hose? My dad

1464
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: murdered everybody in the house because you left the hose on.

1465
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 2: Drinking poison out of a hote, out of a green

1466
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 2: garden hose.

1467
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 3: Wait, okay, what's the what's the show called? James Patterson? Colon?

1468
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: Steven's going to tell us in a minute out of

1469
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: the corner of my eye. See, I love that you did.

1470
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 2: I love that you tried to avoid it because I

1471
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:17,799
Speaker 2: was like, wait to Karen tell us.

1472
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: I didn't help you.

1473
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 3: I just put it into my TiVo, though, so I

1474
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 3: thought if I started to say James Patterson, the rest

1475
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 3: would come out.

1476
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 2: It doesn't do that in real life. We don't have

1477
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:29,600
Speaker 2: TiVos in our brains yet it doesn't. Just I'll read it.

1478
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 1: It's forever. Yeah, and that's really true. I mean, how

1479
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: many times have we told you, guys?

1480
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 3: But now that James Patterson's saying it, he's right, So

1481
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 3: he's good. But there was another one I found and

1482
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,759
Speaker 3: this is what got me to this story. So also

1483
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 3: we know People Magazine right there and always has been

1484
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 3: with the true crime Forefront at the Forefront has been

1485
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 3: all over Joan Benny's death since it happened. That's what

1486
01:10:57,439 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 3: they did it, that's what they do. And now they're

1487
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 3: voted and they have a dedicated team.

1488
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 1: So this is the Mixedtay family marcher you're doing, I'm

1489
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: doing it. I love it. Oh mixtaye.

1490
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 3: It makes me so crazy because when I saw this

1491
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 3: was one of the choices when I was looking at

1492
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 3: all the choices for the People magazine investigates, it was

1493
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 3: that thing where I went, oh, I remember that. I

1494
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 3: remember that happening. I remember it being breaking news here

1495
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 3: in LA. I remember them talking about, oh, if this

1496
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 3: family of four went missing. And then the follow up

1497
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 3: reports in like the following say month or so, they

1498
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 3: all led and told this weird story where I started

1499
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 3: to go, oh, they probably brought it on themselves. Oh

1500
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 3: they probably Oh they're escaping something, they did it to themselves,

1501
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 3: or they're running away because they're the criminals. Really, that

1502
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 3: narrative got into like the media pretty strongly, and then

1503
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 3: it made me go, oh, well, then they probably just

1504
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 3: ran away and their tax evaders or some weird and

1505
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 3: then I just never heard anything else about it. So

1506
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 3: when I saw it come up as that choice, I

1507
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 3: was like, I bet you that ended way.

1508
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: Different than I remember, and I need to know what

1509
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: the whole story. Oh, this one hurts. It's bad.

1510
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 3: And it's southern California of course. So it's Faulbrook, California,

1511
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 3: which is one hundred miles north of San Diego. So

1512
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 3: it's that weird space.

1513
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: Between one hundred miles north.

1514
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, like as you go down towards

1515
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 3: San Diego and there's like Temecula and whatever, it's right.

1516
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 3: I think it's right south of Temecula from what I remember.

1517
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 3: I looked at the map a couple times, but it's basically.

1518
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: Kind of just I know, I can read maps, Google Maps.

1519
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 3: Okay, So Joey and Summer Miss Day are happily married couple.

1520
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 3: He he designs custom made water features.

1521
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's why that was in my head.

1522
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: Fucking circle full circle. So basically it's like these really

1523
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 1: high end it's kind of an amazing business. You know,

1524
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: people like that that are like they're artists, but then

1525
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: they applied their art to actually make something functional that

1526
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: people need. So it's like water fountains and water features

1527
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: that were all.

1528
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 2: Like waterfalls in the pool that go into the pool.

1529
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 2: Because you're rich as fucking you just need more shit.

1530
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 1: You're very high end business.

1531
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 2: It reminds me of saying that would be like now

1532
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 2: an HGTV show totally the mixed aay family water features.

1533
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 1: They bring in. They're the specialists that the like, uh,

1534
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: those weird Las Vegas rent brothers bring in property brothers,

1535
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: the rent brother they're the rental brother They're a little

1536
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: bit more low down than the property brothers. Property brothers

1537
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: are about buying.

1538
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 2: The property brothers are like, we're not going to fucking

1539
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 2: Las Vegas, dude, that's right.

1540
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1541
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 3: The rent brothers are like, yeah, if you have a

1542
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 3: part time job and you love.

1543
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: Beer, where are your guys? Yeah, Las Vegas is where

1544
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 1: to go. So okay. So uh so joe that's what

1545
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:58,719
Speaker 1: Joey does for a living.

1546
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 3: It really fancy the great business that he started himself

1547
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 3: and that just is doing better and better. And so

1548
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 3: they just bop this really nice house in Fallbrook and

1549
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 3: summer is a full time real estate agent. So they're

1550
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 3: doing very well and they have two young sons.

1551
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 1: A five year old and a three year old. So they.

1552
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 3: On February I believe it's around like February eighth or tent.

1553
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 3: Joey is what everyone calls him. Joey mcstay's father, Patrick

1554
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 3: notices that he's not answering his calls.

1555
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: Every time he.

1556
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,440
Speaker 3: Calls Joey, he gets it, goes straight to the mailbox

1557
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 3: is full. He cannot get a hold of him, and

1558
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 3: he finally calls his other son Michael, and says, will

1559
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 3: you go check on Joey in the house because he's

1560
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 3: not answering, like what's going on? And then they start

1561
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 3: getting calls complaints of people that are looking for their

1562
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 3: water features or their orders or say want a question

1563
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 3: or whatever, and no one's answering. So and Joey was

1564
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 3: really astute businessman, so they knew. Once they started hearing

1565
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 3: complaints through emails that they like calls weren't being returned,

1566
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 3: that's when they really started getting worried that something was

1567
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 3: going on because it's just not like him. And actually

1568
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 3: the webmaster for Joey's company was the one that called

1569
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:22,679
Speaker 3: and said I got all these emails.

1570
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: It's like he's I can't get a hold of it.

1571
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 3: So then the whole family kind of gets together and Michael,

1572
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 3: Joey's brother, and then Joey's business partner, who is the

1573
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 3: guy that took the designs and actually made the water features.

1574
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: His name is Chase Merritt. He's like the construction did Yeah.

1575
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 3: He's like, you design it on the paper, and I

1576
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 3: take all the tubes, twist it around, make a water feature.

1577
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: We ship it out. Boom, we all make ten thousand dollars.

1578
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 3: They go over to the Mixed Day's new house and

1579
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 3: they're looking around. They see that the family that Joey's

1580
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 3: truck is in the driveway, but that the family car

1581
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 3: is gone. The family car is in a Zuzu trooper

1582
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 3: and it's not there. They look, they look over the

1583
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 3: back fence. The dogs are out in the backyard. They

1584
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:14,599
Speaker 3: haven't been fed there. They're like going crazy that people

1585
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 3: are actually there. And then Michael finds an open window

1586
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 3: and he goes into the mix Day's house and they

1587
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 3: look around and there's no blood anywhere. There's nothing amiss.

1588
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 3: There doesn't look like there's been a struggle, but it

1589
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 3: looks like people were just there five minutes ago. So

1590
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 3: there's two little bowls of popcorn on the couch that

1591
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 3: are just sitting on the couch. There's glasses on the counter,

1592
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,639
Speaker 3: you know, reading glasses sitting on the counter. There's open

1593
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 3: cans of paint from a room that they were you know,

1594
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:44,679
Speaker 3: read like repaint.

1595
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: They were open. No one leaves a can of paint open.

1596
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 3: Not even if they were gonna run to the corner.

1597
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 3: It's like, what if the dogs get in data Dutch

1598
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 3: or the kids.

1599
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so anal retentive about that shit. There's no

1600
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 2: fucking wayers leaving those and I don't have dogs or kids.

1601
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 3: Right, And they said later on, they say that they're

1602
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 3: the kind of people that they brought their dogs everywhere,

1603
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 3: so they wouldn't like.

1604
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 1: The idea that the dogs were out in the yard

1605
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: not fed is like was really upsetting to them. They

1606
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: knew something was terribly wrong.

1607
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 3: On February fifteenth, the family reports the entire family missing

1608
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:23,080
Speaker 3: to the San Diego Sheriff's Department. They because they try

1609
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 3: to contact them in every way they look, they look everywhere,

1610
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 3: and they're like, no, this is like we need the

1611
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 3: police to start investigating this, so the police narrow it

1612
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 3: down to the last any anybody heard from them, and

1613
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:40,640
Speaker 3: the last like traceable like phone activity was on February

1614
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:42,560
Speaker 3: fourth of twenty.

1615
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: Ten, and February fifteenth is when they got a hold

1616
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:44,799
Speaker 1: of the cops.

1617
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 3: Yes, wow, so they yeah, they It basically was like, oh,

1618
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 3: they're so busy, they're just not getting back to us.

1619
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 3: And then it got to the point where it's like

1620
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 3: somebody's got to look into this, so I think. And

1621
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 3: also February fifteenth was like may have been the official

1622
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 3: day that it started, so they could have been talking

1623
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,719
Speaker 3: the cops the second after they went into the house

1624
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 3: and it looked like everyone had just walked out of

1625
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 3: the room, which is such a creepy feeling.

1626
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 1: But anyway, so they see that.

1627
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 3: They that on February fourth, at eight twenty eight pm,

1628
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 3: a cell phone tower pinged Joseph's phone. He had made

1629
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 3: a call to employee, an employee in Rancho Kukumonga to

1630
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 3: talk about work. And then they find out that a neighbor.

1631
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 3: Their neighbor had a surveillance camera that caught the edge

1632
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 3: of the Mixed Days driveway and so they have video

1633
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 3: footage of the Mixed Days is Zuzu trooper backing out

1634
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 3: of the driveway at seven forty seven pm on the

1635
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:46,120
Speaker 3: night of February fourth.

1636
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: I forgot about that part.

1637
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you can't see, so all you can see

1638
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 3: are the wheels going down a driveway. You don't even

1639
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 3: see where the windows are on the car. It doesn't

1640
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 3: go up high enough, so you can't see who's in

1641
01:18:56,439 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 3: the car, but you just see that the trooper is

1642
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 3: leaving the house. And then on February eighth, they find

1643
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 3: the Famili's nineteen ninety six, a Zuzu Trooper. It had

1644
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 3: been towed from a parking lot near Sanuel Sidro, and

1645
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 3: the security guards later tell investigators it may have been

1646
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 3: parked there sometime between five thirty and five thirty PM

1647
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 3: and seven pm, And so then they start looking. It's

1648
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 3: basically a parking lot that's right next to the border.

1649
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 3: So then they start watching video footage because they're like, well,

1650
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,759
Speaker 3: what if the family just went into Mexico and something happened,

1651
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 3: because that's basically what the car being driven there tells

1652
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 3: them that. So then they find this was twenty tenkay,

1653
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 3: So so and I.

1654
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: Know that for a fact. I just got a question, Yeah,

1655
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 1: I guarantee it.

1656
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 3: I wrote the year down on every single one of

1657
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 3: these lines. So they start looking at video footage and

1658
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 3: they think that have found Around eight o'clock on that night,

1659
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 3: they think they found it's like surveillance footage of people

1660
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 3: walking into Mexico from the California side into Mexico. And

1661
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 3: it's a family of four and it's a guy and

1662
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 3: a girl and then two little children.

1663
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 2: I have watched back then, watched that video over and

1664
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:24,799
Speaker 2: over and posed it and started it and posed it.

1665
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 2: It's just shadows. It's shadows, you can't tell, and it's

1666
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 2: walking away so you don't see their faces. But it

1667
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 2: looks like a husband and a wife and two little boys,

1668
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 2: and it actually is probably.

1669
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 1: It could be.

1670
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 3: I mean like they were saying something where it's like

1671
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 3: both of the little boys had these hats on, like beanies,

1672
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 3: and which is what those little boys did wear all

1673
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:46,759
Speaker 3: the time.

1674
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 2: They call them, and not uhks tuks in Canada, yeah, yeah.

1675
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: Or like not in California beanies here, yeah, or you

1676
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 1: know some just kind of a little hat. Yeah. But

1677
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: the thing is lots of little kids. Yeah. So it's

1678
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: that thing where it's like one of.

1679
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 2: The chances of that same night, at that same time,

1680
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:06,679
Speaker 2: and this happened.

1681
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 1: They look, you know, it's far away, but it's like

1682
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 1: she's age appropriated. It's all they fit, the body types,

1683
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 1: all of it they do.

1684
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:18,759
Speaker 3: So then the police find on Summer's computer in looking

1685
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 3: into like from the beginning of January, searches on do

1686
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 3: you need passports to take children across the border into

1687
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 3: Mexico and different questions.

1688
01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 1: Like that about taking kids there.

1689
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 3: So then they were like, okay, maybe this they've been

1690
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 3: planning some kind of escape. And that's where this part

1691
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 3: of the narrative comes in. And then the father says.

1692
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:44,879
Speaker 3: In the People magazine investigates, the father talks about how Joey,

1693
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 3: because he was doing so well in business and stuff,

1694
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 3: he ended up buying land in Belize because he had

1695
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 3: this retirement plan. He loves surfing and he loved the water,

1696
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 3: and so he had this land he was going to

1697
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 3: build like a house on in Belize for when they

1698
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 3: were done, and they just wanted to go down and

1699
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 3: you know, live the easy life.

1700
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and he looked like the Margaritaville dude.

1701
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 1: Yes, he's very Sammy Hagar. He's like he's like a

1702
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 1: young Sammy Hagar.

1703
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: She's just like beautiful, like looks like she hang out

1704
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 2: the beach all the time totally. She has like share hair. Yeah,

1705
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 2: they're both like Surfi's chill out looking. The kids are

1706
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 2: like sweet.

1707
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so those little boys look like the cutest kids. Yeah.

1708
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: It's just like a very beautiful, very southern California family.

1709
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 3: So Southern California just kind of like we've and successful.

1710
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, doing well because they've worked hard.

1711
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

1712
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 3: So then this idea that then seeding this concept in

1713
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 3: that they somehow were on the run or they were

1714
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 3: trying to get away from something or whatever. Then they

1715
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:48,559
Speaker 3: start theorizing, Okay, was the cartel involved in this water

1716
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 3: feature company where if they were exporting then somehow they

1717
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 3: got they ran into like the wrong element exporting these

1718
01:22:56,360 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 3: water features into Mexico or internationally or some thing where

1719
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 3: they're just trying to theorize of like why would you

1720
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 3: run with your whole family or why would you cross

1721
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 3: over into Tijuana and just disappear, like what could be happening.

1722
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 2: It's like, I get it, it makes sense that that's

1723
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:15,599
Speaker 2: one of the things you think about.

1724
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 3: Sure well, And I also think that sometimes those people

1725
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 3: come up with those theories because they're trying to think,

1726
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 3: how can this family still be alive because the reality,

1727
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 3: the underlying creepiness is you don't you want to go.

1728
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 3: There's got to be some other thing that's happening. Yeah,

1729
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 3: on May thirteenth of twenty ten, so this is like,

1730
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 3: you know, February, March April, three months later there they

1731
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 3: send investigators down to El Rosario, Mexico because so a

1732
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:50,160
Speaker 3: waiter sees sees little kid, sees the birthmark, and reports

1733
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 3: it that he thinks this is the kid because now

1734
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 3: their pictures are everywhere and it's and it's missing family.

1735
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 3: There's no homicide element in obviously in the beginning of this,

1736
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:04,679
Speaker 3: so it says, and also it seems like when those

1737
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 3: pictures of like have you seen this family there, it

1738
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 3: immediately puts them in that they could be criminals or

1739
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 3: there's something questionable about like you know, they're all the.

1740
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 2: Whole family disappear unless sertiving it on their own. Unless

1741
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:19,880
Speaker 2: there it's not like a husband and wife or one

1742
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 2: or the other.

1743
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 1: Changing their identity or whatever. It's like, yeah, they obviously

1744
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 1: don't usually run away with a three year old and

1745
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 1: a five.

1746
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 3: Year old, right, So a bunch of They have sent

1747
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 3: seven investigators down to look into this, but nothing, uh,

1748
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 3: nothing came of that. And then the brother Michael starts

1749
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 3: them find the mcfaith nick stay family website and it

1750
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 3: gets a bunch of attention, and they actually did an

1751
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,679
Speaker 3: They featured the story on America's Must Wanted, just saying

1752
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 3: this family has disappeared and nobody knows what's happening. The

1753
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 3: problem is that the family finds that in their personal

1754
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 3: bank accounts they have one hundred thousand dollars. So they're like,

1755
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,520
Speaker 3: why would you escape and leave behind a bunch.

1756
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: Of money touched this whole time? It's just sitting in

1757
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 1: their bank account.

1758
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 2: I remember that amount being like like if they left

1759
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars and didn't touch it, it'd be like they're

1760
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 2: you know, okay, Like if you're trying to make it

1761
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:19,560
Speaker 2: seem like you didn't.

1762
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 1: Run away, but you left that one hundred thousand fucking dollars.

1763
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:25,600
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you bring that if you're on the run, right,

1764
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 3: they were coming back? It doesn't make sense so much money.

1765
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 3: Then they also find that Summer had in her email.

1766
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 3: The family starts going through the email, their personal email

1767
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 3: and finds that her abusive X was a guy named

1768
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 3: Vic Johnson. She hadn't spoken to him in five years,

1769
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 3: and actually she was like the bad that was the

1770
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 3: bad relationship she was coming out of when she met

1771
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 3: Joey and they were like, and he like turned her

1772
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 3: life around and it was suddenly like I believe in love.

1773
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 1: Again type of thing.

1774
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 3: So they find an email from that guy. They hadn't

1775
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 3: spoken in five years, and the email was they didn't

1776
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:05,720
Speaker 3: like the tone of it or the sound of it.

1777
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 3: So suddenly they're like, where's this guy. Yeah, so they

1778
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:12,760
Speaker 3: start looking into Victor Hanson, and it turned out in

1779
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,799
Speaker 3: the time that they had broken up, he'd been arrested twice.

1780
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 3: Once was for threatening to kill his neighbors and claiming

1781
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 3: that he was a marine who was trained in like

1782
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 3: killing people and so like I'm coming for you.

1783
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: He was arrested for that. Then the other time, and

1784
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 1: more recently he.

1785
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 3: Was arrested because he was refused to leave a bar

1786
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 3: that Joey's store was. It was next to Joey's and

1787
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:43,640
Speaker 3: so they were like, and then they find out that

1788
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 3: Victor Hanson lives in an apartment two miles away from

1789
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:52,320
Speaker 3: Joey and Summer's old apartment. So they're like, oh, this

1790
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 3: guy's in the mix and nobody for threw it for

1791
01:26:55,160 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 3: sure understood it, but then knows that he's going to

1792
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:05,880
Speaker 3: be suspect, and so he calls the police preemptively and says,

1793
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 3: I understand they're missing.

1794
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know this is where

1795
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 1: I was.

1796
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:11,640
Speaker 3: Here's all the people that can prove it, and it

1797
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 3: all proves out, so he has an alibi that seems

1798
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 3: to be solid.

1799
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 1: By August of twenty ten.

1800
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 3: The beginning of August of twenty ten, the family just

1801
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 3: starts taking all the Mixedday's stuff out of their house.

1802
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:28,839
Speaker 1: And then.

1803
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 3: They see that so Joey's company was called Earth Inspired Products,

1804
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: that that was the.

1805
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: Custom made water features.

1806
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 3: They see that the company is for sale for a

1807
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 3: million dollars and the CEO listed is Dan Kavanaugh, the webmaster.

1808
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 1: Shut the fuck up, who had set.

1809
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:53,800
Speaker 3: Up the email when the company first started. I'm not

1810
01:27:53,840 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 3: sorry the website so I'm so old. So basically, in

1811
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 3: you know, in this in People magazine investigates, they say

1812
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 3: that Dan Kavanaughs believed that he was one of the

1813
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 3: main reasons that this uh water Future company got so successful.

1814
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 3: Because he made sure that anytime you searched custom water

1815
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 3: features or any he was like one of those early

1816
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 3: Google manipulators, so that Earth Inspired Products Inc. Would come

1817
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 3: up first when you were searching for that.

1818
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: And because of that, they get all this business, and

1819
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: he felt like he never got his fair share. And

1820
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 1: they found.

1821
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 3: Old i ams of Joey and Dan like fighting and

1822
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 3: Dan saying you owe me money, and so Joey ended

1823
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:42,599
Speaker 3: up buying him a BMW like as a thank you

1824
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 3: for all your service and I'm doing well and you

1825
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:45,680
Speaker 3: know you helped me.

1826
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 1: So and they even don't get any idea.

1827
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 3: Stephen, the BMW's are too fast for you. And also

1828
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 3: they tracked that he had kept coming to joe this

1829
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 3: webmaster kept coming to Joey and being like, lend me

1830
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:06,720
Speaker 3: fifty bucks, lend me a hundred bucks, lend me two

1831
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,439
Speaker 3: hundred bucks. So that you know, they were like really

1832
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 3: starting to look at that guy. And then he was like,

1833
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 3: I was on a surfing trip when that family.

1834
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 1: Just like could look it up. Dorry. Well, they you

1835
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 1: know it was the truth.

1836
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,759
Speaker 3: But I think it's insane that he tried to fucking

1837
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 3: sell that company with himself as the CEO, like.

1838
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:30,400
Speaker 1: Sure, dude, what an idiot? What are you doing? Red flat?

1839
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 3: And also the case is still open, like why would

1840
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 3: you put yourself out there? So anyway that basically all

1841
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 3: of those leads go cold. The whole case goes cold

1842
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:46,799
Speaker 3: for three years. Then on April ninth, twenty thirteen, basically

1843
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 3: because of that surveillance.

1844
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:53,160
Speaker 2: Video yeah, which one the at sorry at the border with.

1845
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:56,920
Speaker 3: The family grainy from the back saying it's them, the

1846
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 3: San Diego Shares Department investigators announced that the Mixedday family

1847
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 3: left for Mexico voluntarily.

1848
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 1: They're like done yo.

1849
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 3: So they come out and there just basically like, look

1850
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 3: they're gone, and we don't know what happened.

1851
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:14,240
Speaker 1: They just went to Mexico. Shit, So I'll have frustrating

1852
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 1: for the family. It's terrible.

1853
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 3: And also so this is April of twenty thirteen, in

1854
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:21,440
Speaker 3: November of twenty thirteen.

1855
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 1: April to November, got it right, and there a solid

1856
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: six months, okay or so I don't know, math, I mean,

1857
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,240
Speaker 1: we could just pause it and add it up, but

1858
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,400
Speaker 1: why would we? So it's not this. This isn't a

1859
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:40,040
Speaker 1: math's podcast, British math. This isn't an accounting podcast.

1860
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,799
Speaker 3: For funk's sake, this is not a calendar podcast. Clearly

1861
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:47,919
Speaker 3: On November eleventh, twenty thirteen, Okay, there's a guy writing

1862
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 3: in the desert, the Mojave Desert.

1863
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 1: He's riding a motorcross area. But it's your new boyfriend.

1864
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 1: It's Jimmy Buttons. He's just he wants to get back

1865
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 1: on the bike and just kind of experience the whole time.

1866
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:02,599
Speaker 3: Sure, he's out there and he hits his tire, hits

1867
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:06,759
Speaker 3: something weird. He goes back, it's a human skull. No,

1868
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 3: he calls nine to one one. I'm pretty sure it's

1869
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 3: the real call that was on People magazine. He just goes, yeah,

1870
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:18,759
Speaker 3: I'm running my motorcycle out here, back behind the dump,

1871
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 3: and uh, I think I just found a human skull.

1872
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:26,440
Speaker 3: Like he just sounds like the most bummed out.

1873
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:29,560
Speaker 1: Wanted to tops and wheelies. Yeah, I'm just trying to

1874
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 1: have fun like a kid, because you know how hard

1875
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 1: left can be sometimes. And I found I.

1876
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:36,080
Speaker 2: Bought, I saved some money and I bought this thing

1877
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 2: for myself because it brings.

1878
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: Me joy and it's the only thing I have that

1879
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 1: brings me joy left. And of course death is around

1880
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 1: every corner. Sure, and we all know that, So can

1881
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,480
Speaker 1: I get some help out here? So I found a skull. Oh,

1882
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,559
Speaker 1: the poor Jimmy. But now here's the thing. Okay, Jimmy

1883
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 1: buttons xo XO.

1884
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 3: The San Bernardino Sheriff's office takes over because it's up.

1885
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 3: It's the the where that skull is found own is

1886
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 3: up in the desert, and it's not in it, like,

1887
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 3: it's not San Diego Sheriff's office anymore. And so San

1888
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 3: Bernd's two separate.

1889
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 1: Counties, different places. So San Bernardino was like, yeah, we

1890
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,000
Speaker 1: got this. Everybody else came back in. Yeah, you remember

1891
01:32:16,040 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: San Diego.

1892
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:19,480
Speaker 2: You were like, no, they walked away, they walked into

1893
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:21,719
Speaker 2: I was like, uh yeah.

1894
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 1: They're like so we're on this.

1895
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 3: And they send forensic investigators to the to the site,

1896
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 3: including an anthropologist nice and they work all night and

1897
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 3: into the morning. And then the next day, November fifteen,

1898
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:39,839
Speaker 3: San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon identifies the bodies found

1899
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:43,519
Speaker 3: as Joseph Summer, Joseph and Johnny Mixed Day.

1900
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 1: The whole fucking family's been marked. How did they know

1901
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: it was them when they were digging? Because they the

1902
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 1: lots of bones were broken, but they had the dental

1903
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:55,960
Speaker 1: records and the democards identified everybody.

1904
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 2: But they wouldn't know to check the dental records until

1905
01:32:58,280 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 2: they knew what to check them again.

1906
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's two adult bodies and two children. Two

1907
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:07,080
Speaker 1: child bodies and two separate graves. Oh, so tell me

1908
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 1: what happens? So awful?

1909
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So the family's house has been sold. There's a

1910
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 3: new family living in the house, so they San Bernardino

1911
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 3: County Sheriffs want to go back in. But then they're like,

1912
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 3: anything that could have been in here that could have

1913
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 3: possibly been a clue is gone, but the Azuzu trooper

1914
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 3: is still in I guess somehow in police custody. So

1915
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 3: they go back and they fucking pull every ounce of

1916
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:33,720
Speaker 3: forensic evidence that they can out of it. And what

1917
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:38,200
Speaker 3: they find is there is trace evidence of Joey's business partner,

1918
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 3: Chase Merit, in the fucking is Zuzu trooper.

1919
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:45,719
Speaker 1: So they start to look into Chase Merrit's Chase Chachase

1920
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 1: Merritt's merits and his de merits.

1921
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,000
Speaker 3: Turns out he's next con with a mile long wrap sheet.

1922
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:58,960
Speaker 1: Oh Chase even chased down? That's right, so many words

1923
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 1: that are other words, I don't know, there's something there.

1924
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 3: So he'd served time for burglary, grand theft, receiving stolen property,

1925
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 3: and he also had a gambling problem. So as Joey's

1926
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 3: company was getting more and more successful, he was borrowing

1927
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 3: larger and larger sums of money from Joey, and by

1928
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:25,040
Speaker 3: twenty ten, Chase Merritt owed Joey over thirty thousand.

1929
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 1: Dollars Holy sh yes.

1930
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 3: And when Summer found out that amount that he owed,

1931
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,000
Speaker 3: she was like, what the fuck are you doing like that?

1932
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 3: You that's too much money to lend somebody and that's crazy.

1933
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:38,160
Speaker 3: And I think he had I think Joey was in

1934
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 3: that position where he had all the success and all

1935
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:43,759
Speaker 3: this like money and everything was going great.

1936
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,240
Speaker 1: So all the people that came and were like.

1937
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you owe me, because he'd be like, sure, here,

1938
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 3: how much do you need and was really generous and

1939
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 3: just wanted everyone to be like happy like he was.

1940
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:58,400
Speaker 2: And it was like he is grateful for everything he has,

1941
01:34:58,479 --> 01:35:02,160
Speaker 2: and so he's yeah, sure paying it for paying it

1942
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:03,360
Speaker 2: to people who helped him.

1943
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 3: Right exactly, And Chase Merritt's they're going, well, I'm I'm

1944
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 3: your business partner and I'm your guy, and I just

1945
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,360
Speaker 3: have this little please hold me over for a little while.

1946
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:12,719
Speaker 1: I just need ten thousand dollars.

1947
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:16,559
Speaker 3: So basically, as they continue to look in, they know

1948
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,760
Speaker 3: Summer was really upset about that amount. She wanted to

1949
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:23,400
Speaker 3: talk about it like that. It was like a real issue.

1950
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 3: Then they look at Chase Merrett's phone records and on

1951
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 3: the night the Mixday family went missing, his cell phone

1952
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:33,639
Speaker 3: was shown being used right near.

1953
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:35,799
Speaker 1: Where the bodies were found, and they.

1954
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 3: Found out that Merritt's sister lived close to that location

1955
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 3: as well. They had grown up. It was I think

1956
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:46,720
Speaker 3: near Victorville. It was like Mohave Desert somewhere. Basically, that's

1957
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 3: where he knew the area very well.

1958
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:51,320
Speaker 1: So why didn't they know that before?

1959
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 3: I know, they didn't look into it. I guess because

1960
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 3: they were like, oh they did, they are in Mexico. Everything,

1961
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:01,080
Speaker 3: that's fine.

1962
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 1: So then I like to think forensic accountants found this out,

1963
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 1: but I don't know who did it.

1964
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 3: They did, so I'm super exciting, wonderfully dressed, chic hot exciting.

1965
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:18,439
Speaker 3: Forensic accountants find that Chase Merritt had written a company

1966
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 3: check for the amount of twenty one thousand dollars after

1967
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:26,760
Speaker 3: the Mixed Days went missing, which is just fucking stupid.

1968
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 3: So I would think that would be the last jaw,

1969
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,720
Speaker 3: but the chronology could be wrong, so any number of

1970
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 3: those things could have been the last jaw. Finding out

1971
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 3: that his sister lived nearby, all those things. But basically

1972
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 3: they're like, oh yeah, okay. So on November seventh, twenty fourteen,

1973
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:46,440
Speaker 3: San Bernardino County Sheriff's investigators announced that they have arrested

1974
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:50,479
Speaker 3: Charles Chase Merrit and he's charged with four counts of

1975
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:53,799
Speaker 3: murder in the Mixed Day slayings. Okay, so, prosecutors allege

1976
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 3: Chase Merritt has a gambling problem. He killed a family

1977
01:36:57,400 --> 01:37:01,800
Speaker 3: for financial gain and base. He wrote checks totally more

1978
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 3: than twenty one thousand dollars on Joseph mcstay's business account

1979
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 3: in the days after the family was killed. Then he

1980
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 3: went on a gambling spree it nearby casinos.

1981
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:13,440
Speaker 2: Which one Maroongo I thought, I was Marongo, go Marongo,

1982
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:17,040
Speaker 2: don't do it, uh where of course, he lost thousands

1983
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:19,840
Speaker 2: of dollars on what what are the gambling on?

1984
01:37:21,120 --> 01:37:23,639
Speaker 1: You know, fucking like buffalo a my buffalo machine, high

1985
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 1: stakes buffalo machine high stakes Buffalo and fucking Wheel of Fortune.

1986
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:29,639
Speaker 3: It's just like that thing of like anything else where

1987
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:33,720
Speaker 3: you're like, so you you couldn't stop playing fucking twenty one.

1988
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:35,360
Speaker 1: So you killed four.

1989
01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:40,400
Speaker 2: People, two little baby babies, like the cutest so monster.

1990
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:45,679
Speaker 3: On January thirtieth, twenty fifteen, Chase Merritt requests to represent himself.

1991
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:49,960
Speaker 1: Always a good sign gain idea, you're fucking sane as shit. Uh.

1992
01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:52,519
Speaker 3: He said he only had six to eight months to live,

1993
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 3: that he couldn't afford an attorney, and he had to

1994
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:55,200
Speaker 3: represent himself.

1995
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 1: So this turns out it's very sad for him. I

1996
01:37:58,120 --> 01:37:59,519
Speaker 1: hate him so much.

1997
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 3: So the trial is delayed because he keeps on firing

1998
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:09,000
Speaker 3: these attorneys and he tries to represent himself, and I'm

1999
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 3: sure he couldn't do it. February twenty sixteen, he had

2000
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 3: already gone through five attorneys shit. July twenty seventeen, his

2001
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:20,200
Speaker 3: trial is tentatively set for September twenty fifth, twenty seventeen.

2002
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:24,280
Speaker 3: A month later, a San Bernardino County Superior Court judge

2003
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:29,759
Speaker 3: sets a November thirteenth, twenty seventeen trial date. November thirteenth,

2004
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:32,240
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, the trial is weighed. Wait, that's like a

2005
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:37,600
Speaker 3: couple months ago until February twenty third. The trial starts tomorrow,

2006
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:42,799
Speaker 3: the trial of Chase Merritt. Shit, your fack being killed

2007
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,160
Speaker 3: the Mixtay family starts tomorrow.

2008
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:50,559
Speaker 1: If they don't wave it again, holy shey. Yeah, let's

2009
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:55,040
Speaker 1: go to it, dude. The cool thing about the way People.

2010
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 3: Magazine Investigates set up that thing was I was like, oh,

2011
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 3: it's totally that ex boyfriend. Clearly, then you go, it's

2012
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:02,640
Speaker 3: totally the worst well that.

2013
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:05,600
Speaker 2: Which anything I want, it's them. It's like it's the

2014
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:06,200
Speaker 2: next person.

2015
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:09,400
Speaker 1: But that within that world, the police had so.

2016
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 3: Much work to do and so many people to like

2017
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:17,880
Speaker 3: peel away. The really awful thing, though, is this family there.

2018
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:22,080
Speaker 3: Joey McStay had electrical cord around his neck, but the

2019
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:23,920
Speaker 3: whole family was bludgeoned to death.

2020
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and they found the it's you know,

2021
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:31,760
Speaker 1: the sledge hammer where the bodies were buried. How did

2022
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: he do it right?

2023
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:37,000
Speaker 3: And like they he he whoever did this? And if

2024
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:40,599
Speaker 3: it was him or somebody else, sledgehammer to death of family,

2025
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 3: like it's it's a monster among us.

2026
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 1: It's so horrifying. Oh my god.

2027
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:50,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like, I think what always bothered me

2028
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:53,840
Speaker 2: and I followed this case obviously not until recently because

2029
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:55,720
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was going on, But I think

2030
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:57,960
Speaker 2: once I found out that their bodies were found, I

2031
01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:00,960
Speaker 2: was like, I can't this anymore because you'd been hearing

2032
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:01,640
Speaker 2: so much about it.

2033
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:04,080
Speaker 1: Yes, like I knew it happened. Okay, I'm done.

2034
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:10,720
Speaker 2: But I've always pictured you know, their house and the

2035
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:15,759
Speaker 2: two bowls of popcorn, like little kid popcorn on the couch.

2036
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:18,439
Speaker 2: They had just set their kids down so they could

2037
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 2: watch something on TV with some popcorn. And the theory

2038
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 2: is so that the parents can have a conversation with Chase.

2039
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 1: With the business partner, to say, hey.

2040
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 2: You this can't happen anymore, not doing this anymore, and

2041
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:31,679
Speaker 2: he fucking lost it.

2042
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 3: And or he was like, oh, we should all go

2043
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:36,639
Speaker 3: to a thing, let's all go out to dinner, let's

2044
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 3: all like something to get everybody together in the car

2045
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:41,919
Speaker 3: because he yeah.

2046
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,200
Speaker 2: There happened. It didn't happen in the house because there's

2047
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 2: no blood, there's nothing.

2048
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't And the defense attorneys in the beginning,

2049
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 3: we're trying to say that the prosecution is trying to

2050
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 3: say that the uh that that's the house is where

2051
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 3: the like the initial attack took place. And because there's

2052
01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 3: not a drop of blood there, that can't it must

2053
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:05,680
Speaker 3: be wrong or whatever, when obviously there's because there was

2054
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:08,200
Speaker 3: no broken glass, there was no doors were broken, there

2055
01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:10,639
Speaker 3: was no forced entry, there was no sign of a struggle.

2056
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:14,320
Speaker 3: They left of their own accord with the business partner

2057
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 3: slash friend that they thought everything was fine.

2058
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:19,000
Speaker 2: They trusted, Yes, so what do you where? They don't

2059
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:21,679
Speaker 2: know where the where the murder took place.

2060
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:25,280
Speaker 3: But I think if he I think it took place

2061
01:41:25,320 --> 01:41:27,920
Speaker 3: out in the desert. I think he got them into

2062
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:29,879
Speaker 3: the car and then drove them against their will.

2063
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:35,760
Speaker 2: Because yeah, yeah, that makes sense that like but then yeah,

2064
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:38,759
Speaker 2: but then you wonder like if the dad had then

2065
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:42,960
Speaker 2: the UH rope around his neck, because like he probably

2066
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,080
Speaker 2: would have fought if the dude like brought out a

2067
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 2: din and was like, you're coming with me, So he

2068
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:48,560
Speaker 2: subdued him somehow.

2069
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, because I think it's that thing and

2070
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:55,719
Speaker 3: all the people that are suspect. It's all these people

2071
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:58,240
Speaker 3: that are your good friend, your business partner, the person

2072
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 3: you talk to every single day. So clearly it's someone

2073
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 3: couldn't be more on the inside that turned and the

2074
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 3: idea that this guy has like a rap sheet a

2075
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:09,040
Speaker 3: mile along where clearly he doesn't have a huge problem

2076
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:10,960
Speaker 3: with yeah, breaking the lawn, doing what he.

2077
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:13,720
Speaker 1: Needs to do to get his right. I don't know.

2078
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:15,160
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's fascinating.

2079
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:18,080
Speaker 3: And also just at the beginning, and that was, you know,

2080
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:20,320
Speaker 3: years years ago, he was like, oh, I only have

2081
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:21,200
Speaker 3: six months to live.

2082
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:23,680
Speaker 1: Where it's like, sorry, what like you he said he

2083
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 1: had like what cancer or some shit he like.

2084
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 3: At first his lawyers were like, yeah, he's very unwell,

2085
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:32,759
Speaker 3: and then he fires the lawyers and is like, I'm sick.

2086
01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:35,439
Speaker 3: I'm just going to represent myself, Like it's just that

2087
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,280
Speaker 3: whole psychopath thing of like this is about me and how.

2088
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: Hard the struggles of my life.

2089
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, and nobody else matters or counts so crazy, So

2090
01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:46,639
Speaker 3: we'll have to keep our eyes peeled and for sure

2091
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:48,320
Speaker 3: see what happens in that case.

2092
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 1: Fuck, man, I know that was good, Karen, thank you. Well,

2093
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:56,679
Speaker 1: I'm just an asser. I don't want to take credit

2094
01:42:56,760 --> 01:42:57,960
Speaker 1: for the worst fucking story.

2095
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:02,880
Speaker 2: I want to take credit for People Magazine investigates.

2096
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 1: But I will because man, that's a good show. Shit.

2097
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:09,759
Speaker 3: Well oh, that's creepy. I also printed up a picture

2098
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:10,400
Speaker 3: of the leaves.

2099
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:13,599
Speaker 1: That was what I was trying to print last week

2100
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:17,840
Speaker 1: or the week. We did not know. It's just reminding you. Yeah,

2101
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,800
Speaker 1: twenty ten, Never forget about twenty ten. Well, shit, thank

2102
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,040
Speaker 1: you for sharing that, of course.

2103
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:30,320
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back, Karen. Are there any updates?

2104
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:33,559
Speaker 3: There are updates for this one. On April seventh of

2105
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:37,839
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, Chase's attorney filed emotion in San Bernardino Supreme

2106
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:42,479
Speaker 3: Court claiming that Joey's business records or hearsay evidence making

2107
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:46,879
Speaker 3: them inadmissible. That trial began on January seventh, twenty nineteen,

2108
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 3: and then in June of that year, he was found

2109
01:43:50,200 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 3: guilty and he was sentenced to death on January twenty first,

2110
01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. But there's a moratorium on the death penalty

2111
01:43:56,479 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 3: in California. So Chase is currently incarcerated at a correctional

2112
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:04,360
Speaker 3: facility in San Diego and he has no eligibility for parole.

2113
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:07,879
Speaker 3: He maintains his innocence. He says he's preparing a habeas

2114
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,600
Speaker 3: petition to prove his innocence. He claims he was the

2115
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:16,400
Speaker 3: victim of prosecutorial misconduct abusive discretion, judicial error, ineffective assistance

2116
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:19,680
Speaker 3: to counsel. He's got a whole list of complaints. In

2117
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:21,639
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, the book Down to the Bone came

2118
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 3: out that details the murders.

2119
01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:28,320
Speaker 1: And this trial. So that's everything about the actual case.

2120
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:32,559
Speaker 3: Also, we mentioned Jimmy Buttons during my story and he

2121
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:36,760
Speaker 3: of course got made into an MFM animated entitled Jimmy Buttons,

2122
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:39,559
Speaker 3: and so you can go watch that on our YouTube

2123
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 3: channel right now, YouTube dot com slash exactly right media.

2124
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:46,960
Speaker 2: All right, good job. Okay, let's head back in for

2125
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:48,960
Speaker 2: good Things of the week.

2126
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:57,000
Speaker 1: To wrap up the show. Do you have some kind

2127
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:59,160
Speaker 1: of a hooray? I do have one. Okay, you go first,

2128
01:44:59,360 --> 01:45:01,519
Speaker 1: mind stupid, I'll go first. Okay. The other night I

2129
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:02,040
Speaker 1: couldn't sleep.

2130
01:45:02,040 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 2: I was laying in bed thinking about the hometown murders

2131
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 2: and how crazy they've become. And I thought of another

2132
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:07,639
Speaker 2: one that I want people to send in. So it's

2133
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:11,120
Speaker 2: just a random I would I want to hear this now. Okay, Okay,

2134
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:13,439
Speaker 2: this is my hourray. I will feeble to send me,

2135
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 2: not me, I will be able to send us at

2136
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:20,639
Speaker 2: my favorite murder at Gmail stories of how they found

2137
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 2: out after like Grandpa died, we went through the fucking

2138
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 2: basement and that's how we learned. So there's this article

2139
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:30,160
Speaker 2: and vice that I recently reread called My Grandmother the

2140
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:34,400
Speaker 2: Poisoner by John Reid, that I say everyone needs to read.

2141
01:45:34,439 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 1: But like one of.

2142
01:45:35,160 --> 01:45:37,960
Speaker 2: Those, Yeah, we realized my grandma might be poisoning all

2143
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:39,960
Speaker 2: of us, but we just acted like it was normal

2144
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:41,240
Speaker 2: and like, don't eat grandma's food.

2145
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:43,639
Speaker 1: But it's a real great article. What the fuck?

2146
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's one of those what the fucks? How

2147
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:49,599
Speaker 2: did we not know? We found out this after? I

2148
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:52,520
Speaker 2: want those those are our new hometowns.

2149
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 3: That I want, please right, and if anything involves an

2150
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:56,799
Speaker 3: attic and attic we.

2151
01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:59,439
Speaker 1: Were going through a thing and we found out dot.

2152
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:03,799
Speaker 3: Dot dot and a trunk, microfiche whatever it is bottom drawers.

2153
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if it's and it doesn't have to be

2154
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:07,760
Speaker 2: like murder. I'm just talking about like weird shit, like

2155
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 2: we didn't realize this about my mom and tell or

2156
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:11,240
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck.

2157
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:12,719
Speaker 1: Yes, that's great.

2158
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:13,160
Speaker 2: I love this.

2159
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:14,799
Speaker 1: That's a great idea.

2160
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:20,160
Speaker 3: Okay, I was gonna say that this My hooray for

2161
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:25,080
Speaker 3: this week is these fucking kids from that high school

2162
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:29,160
Speaker 3: in Florida, who are standing up and fucking taking the

2163
01:46:29,240 --> 01:46:33,519
Speaker 3: mic away from these inept, fucking leaders of this country

2164
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 3: and the rotten, shitty, toxic adults that are so fucking

2165
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:41,120
Speaker 3: greedy that they don't care about human life.

2166
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:43,080
Speaker 1: Anymore, and they are taking it back.

2167
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:47,480
Speaker 3: I am so proud that the way they're handling themselves.

2168
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:48,600
Speaker 1: And I just want to.

2169
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:52,360
Speaker 3: Say to all these kids that are watching other kids,

2170
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:56,439
Speaker 3: be this empowered and just know this is the world

2171
01:46:56,479 --> 01:46:59,880
Speaker 3: needs you so bad right now because these adults have

2172
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 3: on insane and you are the voice of reason, and

2173
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:07,000
Speaker 3: anyone trying to tell you can't talk or you're being

2174
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:10,760
Speaker 3: over emotional, you don't have to listen to any of

2175
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:12,680
Speaker 3: those old fucks at all, and you.

2176
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 1: Can do You're not over emotional.

2177
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:18,760
Speaker 3: Your opinion matters more than other people's because once you

2178
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,280
Speaker 3: stand on the other side of a fucking ar fifteen

2179
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:24,240
Speaker 3: and almost die in your high school, you get to

2180
01:47:24,320 --> 01:47:28,560
Speaker 3: say what you think about gun control, and your opinion matters.

2181
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:29,880
Speaker 1: And you have to.

2182
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:35,959
Speaker 3: Don't be stopped by fucking closed doors of senators and governors,

2183
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:39,200
Speaker 3: don't be stopped by internet trolls. Don't fucking fall for

2184
01:47:39,280 --> 01:47:41,960
Speaker 3: any of that shit, and do what you know is right,

2185
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:47,080
Speaker 3: because those old fucks are they're locked up in greed

2186
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 3: and they're locked up in fucking shitty like they don't

2187
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:54,519
Speaker 3: even know what they've gone insane, truly, and we need

2188
01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:59,679
Speaker 3: you so badly right now. So congratulations and I'm so sorry,

2189
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:03,600
Speaker 3: but also fuck yet, like rise up children, yes, and

2190
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:05,559
Speaker 3: even the people.

2191
01:48:05,400 --> 01:48:08,519
Speaker 2: Who the teenagers who you haven't had a shooting at

2192
01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:11,360
Speaker 2: your school yet. To me, the thought, you know, I

2193
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:14,720
Speaker 2: graduated the year before Columbine and now the thought of

2194
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,840
Speaker 2: going to high school and knowing every fucking day that

2195
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:18,960
Speaker 2: that could happen.

2196
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:21,240
Speaker 1: Is terrifying to me. And I'm not in high school.

2197
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:24,040
Speaker 2: So everyone who's in high school and in college and

2198
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 2: in these in these situations.

2199
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 1: Like why why is the world the words school shooting

2200
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:32,080
Speaker 1: so normal? It shouldn't be.

2201
01:48:32,479 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 2: It's all these kids who need to fucking do something,

2202
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:36,519
Speaker 2: And you're totally right, And it's not just the fucking people,

2203
01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 2: it's the adults. As someone who's thirty seven, we stop

2204
01:48:40,160 --> 01:48:42,080
Speaker 2: giving a shit and we go fucking dead in the

2205
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:44,080
Speaker 2: brain and we don't know what we're what to do.

2206
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:47,759
Speaker 2: So we need you so badly. It's your fucking future.

2207
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:50,600
Speaker 2: We support you. I saw something today that was like,

2208
01:48:50,640 --> 01:48:55,519
Speaker 2: schools are fucking threatening to suspend students. I guys suspended

2209
01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:58,160
Speaker 2: in high school. Guess what, it doesn't fucking matter.

2210
01:48:58,360 --> 01:49:01,439
Speaker 1: Not only does it not matter, guess what if you

2211
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:05,400
Speaker 1: get shot by a fucking ar fifteen because some fucking

2212
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 1: all right racist piece of shit runs through your school

2213
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:12,760
Speaker 1: trying to shoot people, it won't matter suspended or not.

2214
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:15,679
Speaker 1: This is a we are at a really crucial time

2215
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:17,720
Speaker 1: where these what these kids are doing, You're standing up

2216
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:21,920
Speaker 1: and going no fucking more because we almost died. They're

2217
01:49:21,960 --> 01:49:24,519
Speaker 1: not spoiled little activist children.

2218
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:26,720
Speaker 3: They're not like these pieces of shit that are trying

2219
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:30,200
Speaker 3: to talk shit about them. They are people who A

2220
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:34,240
Speaker 3: survived and b now have a clarity that you can

2221
01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:37,800
Speaker 3: only get when you fucking almost get killed, where you

2222
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:39,680
Speaker 3: step forward and go I know what matters. I know

2223
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:42,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, And I'm about to tell you something.

2224
01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 3: And these old men that run this country that.

2225
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:47,559
Speaker 1: Are so obsessed with being in a fucking yacht club

2226
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:50,639
Speaker 1: that they don't give a shit about human life, that

2227
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:52,080
Speaker 1: generation is dying off.

2228
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:54,479
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine how fucking scared the NRA

2229
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 2: is that they're coming after them.

2230
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 1: I am so fucked. We are fucking for you, We're

2231
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:01,400
Speaker 1: behind you.

2232
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 3: And also you're seventeen. A lot of you are seventeen

2233
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:07,160
Speaker 3: or up in that area. In one year you can

2234
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:10,080
Speaker 3: start fucking changing everything and you.

2235
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:12,519
Speaker 2: In the meantime, your shit's going to be expunged. So

2236
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:13,879
Speaker 2: just fucking get out there.

2237
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:16,880
Speaker 3: Yes, and keep going on social media, keep doing the

2238
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:18,240
Speaker 3: things that you know how to do that they don't

2239
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:18,640
Speaker 3: know how to do.

2240
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:20,360
Speaker 1: Just communicate on social media.

2241
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:22,679
Speaker 3: There was that brilliant thing where people started to try

2242
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 3: to accuse one of those survivors of being a crisis actor,

2243
01:50:26,439 --> 01:50:28,800
Speaker 3: and he fucking came back on Wolf Blitzer and was like,

2244
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:31,200
Speaker 3: if any of you saw me in our high school

2245
01:50:31,200 --> 01:50:32,920
Speaker 3: production as a fiddler on the roof, you would.

2246
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:35,280
Speaker 1: Know I am not a crisis actor. It was like,

2247
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:38,519
Speaker 1: how genius are these They're all trained by TV. Yeah,

2248
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:40,840
Speaker 1: they're all trained by social media. They know how to

2249
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:43,479
Speaker 1: do this thing. They don't need fucking old people telling

2250
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 1: them what to do anymore. And they don't need pieces

2251
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:50,559
Speaker 1: of shit like school people going oh, you'll get suspended. Hey,

2252
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:53,920
Speaker 1: guess what, we're tired. They're saying, we're tired of dying.

2253
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, my sister has lived on the front lines of

2254
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 3: school shooting culture since it started, and she as a

2255
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:05,320
Speaker 3: teacher when people were saying teachers should walk out, teachers

2256
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 3: should be armed. Teachers, Yes, my sister goes, how come

2257
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 3: we have to fucking do everything? This is both like

2258
01:51:12,640 --> 01:51:15,519
Speaker 3: teachers aren't going to be armed. This is a school

2259
01:51:16,360 --> 01:51:19,559
Speaker 3: that what we need is less guns, not more that

2260
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:22,720
Speaker 3: the fantasy of arming everybody to the teeth. Did you

2261
01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:24,720
Speaker 3: see that thing online where they showed a picture of

2262
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:28,040
Speaker 3: moment moments before Ronald Reagan got shot, And.

2263
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:31,360
Speaker 1: There's just all these arrows to all that you see.

2264
01:51:31,200 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 3: Ia going good guy with a gun, good guy with gun,

2265
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 3: good guy with gun, and he still got fucking shot.

2266
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:40,439
Speaker 3: He was surrounded on every side. So drop the fantasy

2267
01:51:40,240 --> 01:51:43,400
Speaker 3: that that arming everybody is the answer and start looking

2268
01:51:43,400 --> 01:51:47,840
Speaker 3: at the fact that this country has too many fucking guns. Wait,

2269
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:50,559
Speaker 3: why am I saying anything? Let's children listen to them.

2270
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:52,600
Speaker 2: We're not And the thing too, And I've gotten in a

2271
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:55,519
Speaker 2: loud fight with my mom and a fucking fancy pizza

2272
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,759
Speaker 2: restaurant about this, as we're not trying to take away

2273
01:51:59,080 --> 01:52:03,760
Speaker 2: fucking this guy Eric's fucking gun, his fucking twenty two.

2274
01:52:04,040 --> 01:52:09,240
Speaker 2: Have it fine, right, basic fucking regulations, especially on automatic

2275
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:14,679
Speaker 2: fucking rifles and automatic weapons and fucking you know, army

2276
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:15,800
Speaker 2: grade fucking.

2277
01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:18,720
Speaker 1: Uh assault assaults.

2278
01:52:19,080 --> 01:52:22,760
Speaker 2: And it's just basic fucking regulations in the same way

2279
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 2: driver's license do, in the same way you and I

2280
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 2: would have to fucking have if he wanted to get

2281
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:29,320
Speaker 2: an abortion right or we wanted to get birth control,

2282
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:32,559
Speaker 2: like we you know, Like what the fuck is the difference?

2283
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:35,439
Speaker 1: And it's the times is it's a big, big money,

2284
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:36,240
Speaker 1: lots of money.

2285
01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:39,200
Speaker 2: You've been fucking brainwashed, Yes, And if you're not on

2286
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:43,640
Speaker 2: the side of fucking of protecting children, then you're on

2287
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:45,360
Speaker 2: the wrong side, and you need to fucking know that.

2288
01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:48,559
Speaker 3: Yes, And that idea the threat of their coming for

2289
01:52:48,640 --> 01:52:53,519
Speaker 3: our guns is like an NRA based fantasy of this

2290
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:58,519
Speaker 3: government takeover like your boys in office, like that you can.

2291
01:52:58,479 --> 01:52:59,280
Speaker 1: Let go of.

2292
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 3: There was saying if we just got rid of one

2293
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:04,519
Speaker 3: hundred thousand guns, there would still be three hundred thousand

2294
01:53:04,560 --> 01:53:08,679
Speaker 3: in the mix, Like this is a it's it's a crisis.

2295
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:09,599
Speaker 1: It's a fucking crisis.

2296
01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:12,439
Speaker 2: It's a real cris I've been worrying about it and

2297
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:15,720
Speaker 2: worrying about it, and to see fucking teenagers actually doing

2298
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 2: something about it is uh, it's it's overwhelming to me

2299
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:23,080
Speaker 2: to see it happening and someone doing something about it,

2300
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:25,880
Speaker 2: and I'm all all we can do is say that

2301
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:26,680
Speaker 2: we support it.

2302
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:30,960
Speaker 3: Please keep please keep going, and please know that you

2303
01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:33,720
Speaker 3: the fight and they know none of this needs to

2304
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:34,439
Speaker 3: be said to them.

2305
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:38,240
Speaker 2: That's what's talking, you know, not teenagers to support it

2306
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:41,200
Speaker 2: as well. Exactly what we can do is just like

2307
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:42,640
Speaker 2: get behind.

2308
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:45,839
Speaker 3: It, as we said, as James Patterson said, murder is forever.

2309
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:49,000
Speaker 3: You fucking los your fourteen year old in a school

2310
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:52,920
Speaker 3: shooting the fucking end, look around your house, look around

2311
01:53:52,960 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 3: your family, and say, who am I willing to lose

2312
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:58,160
Speaker 3: so that somebody else can have a gun? Because I

2313
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:01,479
Speaker 3: bet you that answers fucking know. But but it's totally

2314
01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 3: fine for these other families to lose babies, to lose

2315
01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:06,880
Speaker 3: children in the hallway of their high school.

2316
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:09,680
Speaker 1: That is bullshit. We need to start golden ruling some

2317
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:10,759
Speaker 1: shit in this country.

2318
01:54:10,880 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 3: We need to take back this like I got mine,

2319
01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:16,760
Speaker 3: too bad for your family And guess what, these kids

2320
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:17,599
Speaker 3: are the ones that are going.

2321
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:21,040
Speaker 1: To do it. And it's fucking I I'm in awe.

2322
01:54:21,200 --> 01:54:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm in fucking awe of these kids.

2323
01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:29,880
Speaker 2: God bless God bless them, and we're back.

2324
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:33,480
Speaker 3: Okay, So this episode originally was entitled Project Art to

2325
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 3: Choke one of the Greats.

2326
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:36,920
Speaker 2: What if we were naming it today based on something

2327
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:39,640
Speaker 2: we said in the episode, maybe we would call it

2328
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:44,000
Speaker 2: third and Final Karen's last apology Ever.

2329
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:46,920
Speaker 3: I really miss yelling at the audience and being rude

2330
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:49,280
Speaker 3: to people on Twitter. Those days are so far behind

2331
01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:53,640
Speaker 3: me now. Oh, also, rip George. We could name it

2332
01:54:53,680 --> 01:54:57,760
Speaker 3: Fiercely Private Dog, which people really took to when I

2333
01:54:57,960 --> 01:55:00,360
Speaker 3: declared that she was fiercely in private, even though I'm

2334
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:01,840
Speaker 3: the one that posted the video over.

2335
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:05,160
Speaker 2: That became a shirt that was so important. I feel

2336
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:07,960
Speaker 2: like we have to and George's name, call it Fiercely

2337
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:13,840
Speaker 2: Private Dog. We could do Jimmy Buttons of course, yes, classic, Yeah.

2338
01:55:13,480 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 3: Or never forget about twenty ten when you basically remind

2339
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:19,640
Speaker 3: remind me of how I fucked up.

2340
01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:21,120
Speaker 1: Yep, never forget.

2341
01:55:21,200 --> 01:55:23,920
Speaker 2: Never. All right, Well, thank you guys for listening here.

2342
01:55:24,080 --> 01:55:26,120
Speaker 2: And what is it twenty twenty six? Let's go back

2343
01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:28,440
Speaker 2: to twenty eighteen to say goodbye.

2344
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:36,960
Speaker 1: Stay sex and don't get murdered. Goodbye, goodbye Elvis.

2345
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:41,120
Speaker 2: You want cookie, good Bye, good boy,