WEBVTT - Douglas Murray - Defending Western Civilization 0:00:11.657 --> 0:00:14.937 You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 0:00:14.937 --> 0:00:17.577 you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeart Radio app 0:00:17.857 --> 0:00:21.297 or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, welcome to 0:00:21.337 --> 0:00:25.777 the Buck Sexton Show. In this episode, we have Douglas 0:00:25.897 --> 0:00:29.257 Murray with us. He is an author, a columnist. You 0:00:29.297 --> 0:00:31.897 see him popping up on Fox News on the regular. 0:00:31.937 --> 0:00:34.497 His latest book was The War on the West, which 0:00:34.577 --> 0:00:37.617 is excellent to actually have it here on my bookshelf, 0:00:38.257 --> 0:00:42.217 and he's writing from New York Post and other places. Douglas, 0:00:42.217 --> 0:00:44.937 great to have you on, sir, Hey, great to be on. 0:00:45.817 --> 0:00:48.177 So I'm sure now people ask you this occasionally, or 0:00:48.217 --> 0:00:51.497 maybe I'm I'm making an assumption I shouldn't. But how's 0:00:51.537 --> 0:00:56.057 this whole counter movement against the War on the West going? 0:00:56.177 --> 0:00:59.657 You know what I mean? How is our counter strike 0:00:59.897 --> 0:01:04.257 against the War on the West at this stage? Well, 0:01:04.297 --> 0:01:07.897 it's much more developed. One of my one of my 0:01:07.977 --> 0:01:12.577 self appointed tasks, I always say, is to head into 0:01:12.617 --> 0:01:17.177 mine fields and gleefully run across them in the hope 0:01:17.217 --> 0:01:22.777 that other people can traverse them more safely themselves afterwards. 0:01:23.257 --> 0:01:24.977 But I wrote about this a couple of books back, 0:01:24.977 --> 0:01:27.137 and my book The Madness of crowds that talked about 0:01:27.177 --> 0:01:30.257 all the social justice nonsense. I said that my self 0:01:30.417 --> 0:01:32.657 pointed task was to do this thing that a landmine 0:01:32.737 --> 0:01:36.537 clearer does. I go into the areas of subjects that 0:01:36.577 --> 0:01:38.777 are really and everyone's saying, you can't talk about that, 0:01:39.097 --> 0:01:40.737 and I talk about it. I write about it, and 0:01:40.777 --> 0:01:44.457 I investigate it. And my hope always is that it 0:01:44.497 --> 0:01:46.057 means that other people are going to do it after 0:01:46.137 --> 0:01:47.977 that doesn't mean I'm by any means the only person 0:01:48.057 --> 0:01:50.377 doing it. But for instance, all the stuff I wrote 0:01:50.377 --> 0:01:54.897 about in the Madness of Crowds, I'm delighted to see 0:01:54.977 --> 0:01:57.817 not least some for instance, the trans issue, it has 0:01:57.897 --> 0:02:01.497 just become really picked up by so many more people. 0:02:02.737 --> 0:02:04.737 When I wrote about this some years ago, people are like, 0:02:04.777 --> 0:02:09.137 why are you bothering about this like fringe thing, And 0:02:09.297 --> 0:02:12.617 it's very good to see that there's lots of energized people, 0:02:12.737 --> 0:02:15.857 including a lot of energized parents who are who are 0:02:15.937 --> 0:02:20.817 understanding the significance of what's happening. The latest book, The 0:02:20.857 --> 0:02:23.737 War on the West, Yeah, is about this anti Western movement, 0:02:23.737 --> 0:02:29.657 specifically the sort of antihistory movement in the West. Again, 0:02:29.737 --> 0:02:33.177 I think that it took some people time to realize. 0:02:33.177 --> 0:02:35.257 It took me time to realize what was going on, 0:02:35.577 --> 0:02:38.177 that what we were seeing was a fundamental assault on 0:02:38.217 --> 0:02:40.777 everything in our past, you know, the good as well 0:02:40.817 --> 0:02:44.017 as the bad. It's like nobody nobody contra you know, 0:02:44.057 --> 0:02:46.337 the abrahm x kendis and thing nobody actually wants to 0:02:46.417 --> 0:02:51.137 like not teach slavery or like not teach any child 0:02:51.217 --> 0:02:53.297 anything bad about the American past. The thing is that 0:02:53.337 --> 0:02:54.737 some of us were just like some of the good 0:02:54.737 --> 0:02:58.657 stuff to be taught as well. And and again, I 0:02:58.657 --> 0:03:02.377 mean I see, I see, particularly the last year, a 0:03:02.537 --> 0:03:06.737 growing momentum of people realizing this. Everywhere I go across 0:03:06.817 --> 0:03:14.697 the United States, I find beliegued but but nevertheless correct 0:03:15.177 --> 0:03:21.897 Americans who desperately are looking for a way to defend 0:03:22.017 --> 0:03:26.297 the things we all knew until yesterday, and not to 0:03:26.337 --> 0:03:29.417 have to go along with the lies that are being 0:03:29.457 --> 0:03:35.297 told about our past, not going along with the indoctrination 0:03:35.457 --> 0:03:39.737 of the children. And I think that to that extent, 0:03:39.817 --> 0:03:43.537 the counter push, as you say, it's definitely underway. There's 0:03:43.537 --> 0:03:46.937 no doubt about that. It's no longer lonely in the minefield. 0:03:46.977 --> 0:03:50.017 I can put it like that. Do you think you 0:03:50.017 --> 0:03:53.257 know you brought up the transisue and and it was 0:03:53.297 --> 0:03:57.417 just recently someone showed me that there was a planned 0:03:57.537 --> 0:04:02.297 drag Queen Story hour for you know, the argument. And 0:04:02.337 --> 0:04:04.017 I've seen this with other things too. You've seen this 0:04:04.137 --> 0:04:08.377 with CRT, critical race theory, diversity, equity inclusion, in different 0:04:08.417 --> 0:04:15.577 manifestations where the initial the initial talking points you get 0:04:15.617 --> 0:04:18.057 from either side or along the lines of this isn't 0:04:18.057 --> 0:04:20.657 even happening. Why are you focused on this? Like? Why 0:04:20.817 --> 0:04:23.177 why are you so obsessed with this? Right? That's a 0:04:23.217 --> 0:04:25.577 constant refrain, and because I think for a lot of 0:04:25.617 --> 0:04:29.377 people they think, well, okay, maybe I am too focused, 0:04:29.497 --> 0:04:32.177 And that of course serves a left's purpose because well, 0:04:32.217 --> 0:04:34.857 if just fewer if fifty percent of the people who 0:04:34.857 --> 0:04:37.577 were wondering about this story, all of a sudden thing, 0:04:37.617 --> 0:04:39.297 well I shouldn't care about this does not happened, that's 0:04:39.297 --> 0:04:41.137 a huge victory. Right, So they don't even have to 0:04:41.177 --> 0:04:44.097 defend it if they convince everybody that it's not really 0:04:44.137 --> 0:04:47.977 happening or it's being exaggerated. But with the Drag Story 0:04:48.017 --> 0:04:51.777 Hour thing specifically, it has become clear to me that 0:04:51.857 --> 0:04:54.817 the same way that you said, you're a mind clearer 0:04:54.857 --> 0:04:59.057 now for conservatism or traditionalism, or however you know you 0:04:59.097 --> 0:05:02.577 would like to describe it. On the left, it feels 0:05:02.617 --> 0:05:04.817 like the drag queen story hour thing is supposed to 0:05:04.897 --> 0:05:08.417 be similar in my mind, similar but different, similar in 0:05:08.457 --> 0:05:11.417 so far as they're just try trying to see my 0:05:11.537 --> 0:05:14.857 idea here, Douglas. If they can get more and more 0:05:15.017 --> 0:05:18.057 parents to think this is normal, they can get them 0:05:18.097 --> 0:05:20.257 to think anything as normal. Like if they can break 0:05:20.257 --> 0:05:22.777 you down so that you are bringing your four year 0:05:22.817 --> 0:05:26.737 old to clap in cheer for a thirty five year 0:05:26.777 --> 0:05:28.777 old or forty five year old man dressed as a 0:05:28.817 --> 0:05:31.817 woman shaking his butt in front of your child, they 0:05:31.817 --> 0:05:35.097 can get you to believe anything. Yeah, by the way, 0:05:35.137 --> 0:05:38.057 I mean, I'm as well as it were quite well 0:05:38.057 --> 0:05:41.657 prepped for this because years ago I wrote a book 0:05:41.697 --> 0:05:46.057 on immigration and mass immigration, the illegal mass immigration movement 0:05:46.057 --> 0:05:50.337 into Europe, and it obviously resonated with American readers among others. 0:05:50.737 --> 0:05:53.897 But I was used to this rhetorical trick of the 0:05:53.977 --> 0:05:56.257 lefts from that book and from the years I wrote 0:05:56.257 --> 0:05:59.337 about and studied and traveled and followed the story of migration, 0:05:59.857 --> 0:06:03.697 because the left always said the following things. They said, 0:06:04.457 --> 0:06:13.137 it's not happening. Then it is happening. You should like it. 0:06:13.137 --> 0:06:15.657 It is happening, and you should put up with it. 0:06:15.897 --> 0:06:20.497 And then finally it's revenge. So they would start out 0:06:20.537 --> 0:06:23.657 by just pretending that what I saw with my eyes 0:06:24.737 --> 0:06:28.977 across Europe was just not happening, and they would eventually 0:06:29.097 --> 0:06:32.217 end by saying, it is happening, and you deserve it. 0:06:32.217 --> 0:06:35.657 It's like a punishment for your past, a punishment of colonialism. 0:06:35.857 --> 0:06:42.177 The Empire strikes back, they used to say, jokingly. So 0:06:42.657 --> 0:06:45.737 I've seen exactly the same things happen in every other issue, 0:06:45.737 --> 0:06:49.297 from the trans issue to the rewriting of America's past. 0:06:49.657 --> 0:06:53.737 On the trans issue, they say, it isn't happening. I'd 0:06:53.777 --> 0:06:56.497 like to see rt thing, same thing. It isn't happening, 0:06:56.697 --> 0:06:59.817 and it should be happening, and it should be happening everywhere. 0:06:59.817 --> 0:07:04.017 But it isn't happening anywhere, but it ought to be, right. 0:07:04.657 --> 0:07:07.177 I mean, I feel like this is the definition of 0:07:07.257 --> 0:07:10.377 arguing and bad faith. Right, you're making the arguments defense 0:07:10.417 --> 0:07:13.137 of your position premised around there is no position to 0:07:13.177 --> 0:07:16.257 defend because it's not happening. But also if it were happening, 0:07:16.257 --> 0:07:19.377 it would be a good thing. It is the ultimate 0:07:19.777 --> 0:07:23.457 merry go round, completely circular logic. It's not really logic, 0:07:23.457 --> 0:07:27.217 it's just circular um. But on the on the drag 0:07:27.297 --> 0:07:29.617 Queen storry, how you see it goes if by the 0:07:29.697 --> 0:07:32.097 way the drag Queen's story out was actually as sort 0:07:32.137 --> 0:07:35.497 of as it were, actually innocent thing, which I'm sure 0:07:35.577 --> 0:07:39.257 sometimes it has been akin to British panto, where there's 0:07:39.257 --> 0:07:42.097 a sort of absurd man dressed up in an absurd 0:07:42.137 --> 0:07:44.617 way reading a story. I don't have much problem with that. 0:07:45.337 --> 0:07:47.737 And the thing that everyone is recognized as a problem 0:07:47.937 --> 0:07:52.577 is the stripper shaking the bat in front of the 0:07:52.617 --> 0:07:55.257 kids and being encouraged to put money into the throng. 0:07:55.577 --> 0:07:58.817 I was like, and again that comes up and the 0:07:58.897 --> 0:08:01.977 left says, that's not happening. And then you go, but 0:08:02.097 --> 0:08:05.217 I've just seen it on a video, and they go, well, 0:08:05.257 --> 0:08:10.577 the videos from a right wing source, um. And then 0:08:10.617 --> 0:08:14.257 they say, and it should be happening because it's an 0:08:14.297 --> 0:08:18.417 ancient part of lgbtquia plus culture, which as we know, 0:08:18.577 --> 0:08:23.777 has been going on for millennia in exactly this format. 0:08:23.377 --> 0:08:26.377 And then row it onto the Americans story and you 0:08:26.497 --> 0:08:29.737 get the same dishonesty. Look at what Nicole Hannah Jones, 0:08:29.777 --> 0:08:32.497 who I had a spat with recently, the originator of 0:08:32.497 --> 0:08:35.177 the sixteen nineteen project of The New York Times. Look 0:08:35.177 --> 0:08:37.817 at what people like her did. She and her editor 0:08:37.817 --> 0:08:40.537 at The New York Times said, we want to reframe 0:08:40.977 --> 0:08:45.057 the date of America's founding. Then when some of us 0:08:45.097 --> 0:08:47.697 said we don't like the sound of that, they said, 0:08:47.857 --> 0:08:51.057 we never said that. What they did was they took 0:08:51.137 --> 0:08:54.697 the words reframing of the American founding out of the 0:08:54.697 --> 0:09:00.217 original website and silently, in a stalinistic way, changed it 0:09:00.257 --> 0:09:02.257 so then they could go, ha, we never said that, 0:09:03.537 --> 0:09:05.457 you did say it. It's just that after the fact 0:09:05.497 --> 0:09:08.657 he then edited it. And then they say, we don't 0:09:08.697 --> 0:09:11.337 actually want all children in America to be told that 0:09:11.377 --> 0:09:14.257 America's original sin is slavery, and at the same time 0:09:14.337 --> 0:09:17.217 have a project which says, that's precisely what we want 0:09:17.257 --> 0:09:20.417 to do. We want to totally rewrite the American story, 0:09:20.577 --> 0:09:25.097 to turn it from a story of heroism and success 0:09:25.137 --> 0:09:29.617 and courage into a story of iniquity and vice and evil. 0:09:30.537 --> 0:09:33.057 But then they pretend it's not happening, and also that 0:09:33.137 --> 0:09:36.057 it should happen everywhere. You know. It's another thing that 0:09:36.737 --> 0:09:39.497 I think this is a little it's a little controversial. 0:09:39.537 --> 0:09:41.657 I love history. You love history, right. I'd read history 0:09:41.697 --> 0:09:43.777 books and have my entire life since I was a 0:09:43.777 --> 0:09:45.657 little kid for fun. I just think history books are 0:09:45.777 --> 0:09:47.577 a lot of fun. Most of the ones next to 0:09:47.617 --> 0:09:49.577 my War on the West, which everybody should get, by 0:09:49.577 --> 0:09:53.137 the way, I've got I'm just looking across. We've got Coolidge, 0:09:53.337 --> 0:09:57.217 Andrew Jackson, Ethan Allen, Washington Grant, a big book on strategy, 0:09:57.217 --> 0:10:00.217 A History of m I Six Spies and Commissars by Roberts. 0:10:00.417 --> 0:10:02.737 I mean, anyway, point being, like, I go through those 0:10:02.737 --> 0:10:05.737 are mostly that was my biography shelf. But point being, 0:10:05.817 --> 0:10:07.497 I love all that stuff. Right. One of the things 0:10:07.577 --> 0:10:09.377 you hear from the left, I think is always around 0:10:09.377 --> 0:10:12.737 the issue of focus, and they'll say, well, there's there's 0:10:12.777 --> 0:10:17.337 far too much focus on on sort of Eurocentric history 0:10:17.457 --> 0:10:20.297 or or you know, this the the Western it's really 0:10:20.297 --> 0:10:22.857 more even the Western civilization path. You know, you start 0:10:22.937 --> 0:10:25.137 in you know, ancient Egypt, and then you get some 0:10:25.177 --> 0:10:27.897 stuff going on and what is Israel today, and then 0:10:27.937 --> 0:10:30.057 you move over, you know, you go to ancient Greece 0:10:30.057 --> 0:10:32.217 and ancient Rome, and then you find yourself in Europe. 0:10:32.257 --> 0:10:34.617 And oh, look at this we discover America that they 0:10:34.617 --> 0:10:36.737 object to this, But I always ask him and I say, 0:10:36.737 --> 0:10:41.097 look what what what what would an ap history course? 0:10:41.137 --> 0:10:43.177 And I say this, and honestly, what would an ap 0:10:43.417 --> 0:10:50.497 history course in the literature of pre Colombian America? Particularly, 0:10:50.577 --> 0:10:53.017 Let's say, I don't know, you pick uh, you know, 0:10:53.097 --> 0:10:55.897 you pick a tribe in the American Southwest? What would 0:10:55.897 --> 0:10:57.937 that even look like? Like? How would you do this 0:10:58.457 --> 0:11:00.977 when you actually have a lot of societies And I 0:11:01.017 --> 0:11:04.097 know this somehow is a controversial thing to say that 0:11:04.177 --> 0:11:07.217 didn't have written language. So so how are you going 0:11:07.297 --> 0:11:10.577 to do an in depth history, you know, pre the 0:11:10.657 --> 0:11:12.817 years obviously of exploration everything else, How are you going 0:11:12.817 --> 0:11:15.297 to do anything? Yes, you can do archaeological history, and 0:11:15.337 --> 0:11:17.777 they're certainly, And people say, but the Aztecs were such. 0:11:18.097 --> 0:11:19.857 By the way, the more people find out about Aztecs, 0:11:19.897 --> 0:11:21.177 the more they're like, oh, I don't know if this, 0:11:21.577 --> 0:11:24.257 I don't know if this whole harmony with other tribes 0:11:24.257 --> 0:11:26.457 in the environment is really the vibe we want to 0:11:26.457 --> 0:11:31.217 go for with the mass enslavement, human sacrifice, child sacrifice anyway, 0:11:32.137 --> 0:11:34.577 child sacrifice something going on with Democrats these days too, 0:11:34.577 --> 0:11:38.177 in America. But uh yeah, do you see what I'm saying? Though, 0:11:38.217 --> 0:11:41.017 like like we never get to talk about this. I mean, Okay, 0:11:41.057 --> 0:11:43.777 you don't want to do ancient Greece. What do you 0:11:43.817 --> 0:11:46.777 want if you're studying something an eight hundred BC? Okay, 0:11:46.777 --> 0:11:49.017 there are some options to Maria and at least whatever, 0:11:49.417 --> 0:11:51.617 But what are you gonna what are you gonna study? 0:11:52.537 --> 0:11:55.457 M This was a point by that Alan Bloom made 0:11:55.537 --> 0:11:58.297 forty years ago now and the closing of the American mind, 0:11:58.817 --> 0:12:00.297 when he said, if you're not going to have the 0:12:00.337 --> 0:12:05.857 Bible as the basis for your civilization and historical sort 0:12:05.897 --> 0:12:09.737 of religious social perspective, you ought to have a book 0:12:09.777 --> 0:12:15.937 of called seriousness and depth. And I liked this point because, 0:12:15.977 --> 0:12:18.617 of course it summons up the question, well, what would 0:12:18.697 --> 0:12:24.217 that be? And the answer is hard to think of 0:12:24.257 --> 0:12:31.697 another such book, to which you said precisely right now. 0:12:32.177 --> 0:12:35.497 It's the same thing with Western history and Western philosophy 0:12:35.497 --> 0:12:37.257 and all the things that the Western culture, all the 0:12:37.297 --> 0:12:39.417 things that the Left is trying to destroy at the moment. 0:12:40.337 --> 0:12:42.337 You better, you better, if you want to do away 0:12:42.377 --> 0:12:44.777 with all that, you better have greater figures than the 0:12:44.817 --> 0:12:48.617 Founding Fathers for us to revere you better have smarter 0:12:48.737 --> 0:12:52.337 men than Thomas Jefferson in your back pocket. You better 0:12:52.377 --> 0:12:57.537 have greater music than Bachs, You better have greater architecture 0:12:57.537 --> 0:13:00.737 than the cathedrals of Europe. And you ought to have 0:13:00.857 --> 0:13:05.577 better literature than Shakespeare, Dostoyevskia, much more. Now, if you've 0:13:05.577 --> 0:13:08.417 got such a thing, fine, very interested to hear it, 0:13:09.417 --> 0:13:13.657 have you? No? Oh? I see? Let me take the 0:13:13.697 --> 0:13:16.257 example of the one that's most terrifying, which I write 0:13:16.257 --> 0:13:17.577 around the war in the west of the way in 0:13:17.617 --> 0:13:21.817 which all this nonsense has gone into stem subjects. Ask 0:13:22.217 --> 0:13:28.057 anyone what the other ways of knowing have produced? This 0:13:28.137 --> 0:13:30.657 is the idea that there is a western centric form 0:13:30.657 --> 0:13:34.857 of mathematics and others other science and hard sciences, and 0:13:34.937 --> 0:13:37.377 that they are so western Centric that they must be 0:13:37.497 --> 0:13:41.657 disrupted by quote other ways of knowing. Here is you 0:13:41.697 --> 0:13:43.697 just said you said a controversial thing. Let me throw 0:13:43.737 --> 0:13:49.057 out a more controversial thing. When you need a vaccine 0:13:50.137 --> 0:13:53.977 for a global pandemic, do you go to a Native 0:13:54.017 --> 0:13:56.657 American tribe and say, we would like you to use 0:13:56.697 --> 0:13:59.617 your other ways of knowing to come up with a vaccine. 0:14:01.297 --> 0:14:04.737 Does anyone go to the Aboriginal tribes of Australia and 0:14:04.817 --> 0:14:09.217 say we need your mathematical formulae to get this plane 0:14:09.257 --> 0:14:13.817 off the ground. No, I'm afraid not. Now, this isn't 0:14:13.857 --> 0:14:17.257 This isn't a white supremacist talking point. It's not a 0:14:17.297 --> 0:14:21.097 Western supremacist talking point. It's the observation that what we 0:14:21.177 --> 0:14:25.097 have is good, not because it's Western in itself, but 0:14:25.137 --> 0:14:30.217 because it works. Because the math works. Yeah, because being 0:14:30.297 --> 0:14:34.457 right siety works, and and and yeah, because being right 0:14:34.577 --> 0:14:37.257 is good and the truth is good. And these things 0:14:37.777 --> 0:14:40.497 are I believe central to what the left is trying 0:14:40.537 --> 0:14:42.657 to tear down. I want to I have to give 0:14:42.697 --> 0:14:44.697 a word to our sponsor. But but Douglas, just I 0:14:44.697 --> 0:14:46.537 want to put something out there. You can think about it, 0:14:46.657 --> 0:14:48.897 come back to. I do think that on the right 0:14:49.377 --> 0:14:53.537 we have woken up quite a bit. There's that word woke. 0:14:53.777 --> 0:14:56.937 We have. We have come to the realization of how 0:14:57.017 --> 0:14:59.017 much the left is seeking to destroy. You mentioned the 0:14:59.017 --> 0:15:02.057 sixteen nineteen project and all this stuff, and I want 0:15:02.057 --> 0:15:04.257 to ask you about your tour of southern campuses in 0:15:04.297 --> 0:15:06.617 a moment. But I also think that there is an 0:15:06.697 --> 0:15:10.537 underestimation of how rapidly the left wants to old up 0:15:10.657 --> 0:15:14.937 or take over institutions and use them to rule effectively, 0:15:14.977 --> 0:15:18.177 to be in charge to call the shots irrespective. You know, 0:15:18.177 --> 0:15:20.137 we could sit here and talk about history. I also 0:15:20.177 --> 0:15:22.297 think that there's a lack of understanding of So let 0:15:22.297 --> 0:15:24.017 me come back to that with you in a second. 0:15:24.097 --> 0:15:27.217 But I gotta tell everybody about the My Pillows, Douglas. 0:15:27.297 --> 0:15:29.257 We're gotta get you something if you don't have them already. 0:15:29.817 --> 0:15:31.377 Do you have some my pillows at home? We're gonna 0:15:31.417 --> 0:15:33.457 hook you up. We're gonna get you if you can, 0:15:33.577 --> 0:15:37.977 If you can give me a complimentary my bill. 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So it's one hundred percent made in the USA. 0:16:24.377 --> 0:16:27.297 By the way, ten year warrantee, sixty day money back guarantee. 0:16:27.417 --> 0:16:29.137 But on my pillow dot com click on the radio 0:16:29.137 --> 0:16:32.257 listener special square buy one, get one free on my 0:16:32.417 --> 0:16:34.497 Pillow two point on when you use promo code buck 0:16:34.537 --> 0:16:37.617 promo code b uc k. All right, Douglas, we know 0:16:37.617 --> 0:16:40.497 they're trying to tear down Are we not on the 0:16:40.577 --> 0:16:44.137 right aware enough of what they're trying to build and 0:16:44.217 --> 0:16:47.337 the platforms and the heights of our society that they 0:16:47.377 --> 0:16:50.937 have already seized. Yes, I think that's true. I think 0:16:50.937 --> 0:16:52.817 that it's come as an enormous shock to a lot 0:16:52.817 --> 0:16:54.937 of people in America as across the rest of the 0:16:54.937 --> 0:16:58.697 Western world. America is particularly in trouble. It seems to 0:16:58.737 --> 0:17:03.777 me in terms of institutional capture. I think that if 0:17:03.857 --> 0:17:07.297 we had been talking Buck maybe ten years ago even, 0:17:08.537 --> 0:17:12.017 we would have thought and other people on the American 0:17:12.137 --> 0:17:15.977 right would have thought, that we had institutions still on 0:17:16.017 --> 0:17:19.297 our side, you know. I think we would have thought 0:17:19.377 --> 0:17:22.777 that the military, for instance, was obviously on our side. 0:17:22.817 --> 0:17:26.297 And that's not to deny that the common soldier, as 0:17:26.337 --> 0:17:29.217 it were, is, but the top ranks of the military 0:17:29.337 --> 0:17:31.497 or on our side. I'm not sure if people feel 0:17:31.537 --> 0:17:35.657 that so much anymore. The intelligence agencies. Ten years ago, 0:17:35.657 --> 0:17:38.377 I think we would have been talking about the CIA, FBI, NSA, 0:17:38.497 --> 0:17:40.417 and I think the most conservatives would have said, well, yeah, 0:17:40.497 --> 0:17:43.297 either our guy. Of course, they want to keep America safe. 0:17:43.377 --> 0:17:45.257 You know, guy, I just want to jump in. I 0:17:45.297 --> 0:17:47.057 don't want to I don't want to interpret train of thought. 0:17:47.097 --> 0:17:49.537 Just to tell you though, that I was just talking 0:17:49.537 --> 0:17:51.857 to some CIA friends who are who have gotten out 0:17:51.897 --> 0:17:54.297 recently or are about to get out, and we all 0:17:54.377 --> 0:17:58.057 bemoaned how in the early days of the GAT I mean, 0:17:58.137 --> 0:18:00.737 Global War on Terror, it was how do we how 0:18:00.737 --> 0:18:03.177 do we help find and then you know, sending the 0:18:03.217 --> 0:18:05.857 seals it, how do we help find the bad guys? 0:18:06.057 --> 0:18:07.897 Find bin Laden. You know, how do we do this? 0:18:07.977 --> 0:18:09.497 And that was the mission. We showed up every day. 0:18:09.497 --> 0:18:11.217 There was a mission, right I was in the counter 0:18:11.297 --> 0:18:15.617 terrorism center of the Central Intelligence Agency, and it really wasn't. 0:18:15.657 --> 0:18:18.097 And now they say, oh my gosh, you have no idea. 0:18:18.337 --> 0:18:21.417 It's politics all the time. It's diversity and inclusion training, 0:18:21.417 --> 0:18:24.617 it's why don't we have more transgender analysts, etc. But anyway, 0:18:24.697 --> 0:18:29.617 keeping absolutely no. I mean, it's um and it seeps 0:18:29.657 --> 0:18:31.537 through everywhere. I mean I wrote a bit of my 0:18:31.617 --> 0:18:34.137 New York Post column about this last week. But look 0:18:34.177 --> 0:18:37.497 at this, this encounter between the two Russian fighter jets 0:18:37.497 --> 0:18:39.497 and an American drone over the Black Sea and what 0:18:39.617 --> 0:18:42.737 was international airspace, so they have no right to knock 0:18:42.777 --> 0:18:46.417 down the American drone. But um. The Biden administration and 0:18:46.577 --> 0:18:50.897 the Pentagon, in its response, criticize the Russians for downing 0:18:50.897 --> 0:18:59.177 the drone in a quote environmentally unsafe manner. I mean, 0:18:59.577 --> 0:19:02.937 m yeah, that's one of the problems of war. Again, 0:19:02.977 --> 0:19:05.217 there may have been a sea or down below that 0:19:05.257 --> 0:19:11.297 got sprayed with some oil from the Yeah, it's very sad, 0:19:12.217 --> 0:19:16.497 very sad story. But not maybe the business of the world. 0:19:16.497 --> 0:19:20.337 Wildlife fun not the business of the Pentagon not at all. 0:19:20.657 --> 0:19:23.697 And the fact that the fact that we just time 0:19:23.737 --> 0:19:28.297 and again seem you know, formally very serious institutions that 0:19:28.377 --> 0:19:32.817 we needed, and I would argue we need coming out 0:19:32.817 --> 0:19:35.337 with this kind of stuff on a routine basis is 0:19:35.377 --> 0:19:38.017 I think one of the most distressing things in our time. 0:19:38.217 --> 0:19:40.937 It happened obviously in the universities a long time ago. 0:19:40.937 --> 0:19:43.937 I cited Alan Bloom earlier. We've known this problem for 0:19:43.937 --> 0:19:47.097 forty years and more, and it's only got worse. You know, 0:19:47.817 --> 0:19:50.897 Conservatives have got better and better at diagnosing the problem, 0:19:51.217 --> 0:19:53.257 and all the time the problem has got worse. You know, 0:19:53.297 --> 0:19:56.217 I want to tell you something I like to admit 0:19:56.337 --> 0:19:59.617 when I think it's important for self reflection, and you know, 0:19:59.657 --> 0:20:01.857 it sort of sharpens your ability to see things coming 0:20:02.097 --> 0:20:03.857 when you didn't see something coming that you should have. 0:20:04.257 --> 0:20:06.977 I had because I left the CIA in twenty eleven 0:20:07.457 --> 0:20:10.257 and I friends inside, I'd known the intel community. He 0:20:10.297 --> 0:20:12.137 was just progressively getting First of all, I went through 0:20:12.177 --> 0:20:14.977 eight years of the Obama administration, but even beyond that, 0:20:15.097 --> 0:20:17.977 it just more of the whatever happens in the corporate 0:20:17.977 --> 0:20:20.377 world people need to understand is reflected very much in 0:20:20.377 --> 0:20:22.817 the Federal Guard. The federal government's basically a massive corporation. 0:20:22.897 --> 0:20:26.057 That's how it operates as an employer, so all the 0:20:26.137 --> 0:20:29.417 same seminars and training. And actually it's probably worse at 0:20:29.457 --> 0:20:31.977 the government level because of a whole range of factors, 0:20:31.977 --> 0:20:33.737 the kind of people that want to do federal service. 0:20:34.057 --> 0:20:36.737 But anyway, again into that at length, the thing that 0:20:36.857 --> 0:20:41.137 surprised me was the and we saw this during COVID 0:20:41.177 --> 0:20:44.577 and a variety of factors, but the stalinism of the 0:20:44.617 --> 0:20:50.457 medical community caught me completely off guard, and the unwillingness 0:20:50.497 --> 0:20:53.857 of people to say this is madness. I am an MD, 0:20:54.417 --> 0:20:56.497 and I'm telling you guys, this is crazy, they would 0:20:56.497 --> 0:21:01.217 tell me privately. Not very many. Yes, I think that's 0:21:02.297 --> 0:21:06.697 that's the last magisterium to have fallen is the medical 0:21:06.737 --> 0:21:13.537 community and medical science. I've written this before, but in 0:21:13.697 --> 0:21:17.657 my view, one of the last authorities I was willing 0:21:17.697 --> 0:21:20.897 to hear from, actually willing to hear from and follow 0:21:20.977 --> 0:21:25.417 through on their advice, was scientific our community, Yeah, your 0:21:25.497 --> 0:21:28.137 doctor and so on. And I think that a lot 0:21:28.177 --> 0:21:31.377 of us had a moment where we were actually, Okay, 0:21:31.417 --> 0:21:33.857 that one's gone as well. It was when the medical 0:21:33.937 --> 0:21:40.177 journals started publishing BLM stuff. It was when two thousand 0:21:40.297 --> 0:21:43.537 health professionals signed that letter. I think in the lansid 0:21:43.577 --> 0:21:46.617 if I remember rightly after the death of George Floyd, 0:21:47.177 --> 0:21:50.137 having spent months telling us to stay inside our houses 0:21:50.177 --> 0:21:55.057 and not leave our houses, suddenly saying actually, racism is 0:21:55.137 --> 0:21:57.977 a bigger public health crisis, and therefore you should all 0:21:57.977 --> 0:22:00.297 come out on the streets and gather by the millions 0:22:00.617 --> 0:22:04.057 and mass march. For a lot of us, that was 0:22:04.097 --> 0:22:06.457 one of the moments where we go, you know, I 0:22:06.497 --> 0:22:10.017 don't believe you guys anymore. I don't think you are 0:22:10.097 --> 0:22:13.617 are these non political a political actors. I think you've 0:22:13.617 --> 0:22:19.737 become highly political actors alike almost everyone else. And I 0:22:19.777 --> 0:22:22.217 think all of us saw something fall away in our 0:22:22.297 --> 0:22:25.777