WEBVTT - Conscience w/ Neal Baer

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<v Speaker 1>Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

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<v Speaker 2>We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the

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<v Speaker 2>vicious felonies.

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<v Speaker 3>These episodes are based on. These are our.

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<v Speaker 1>Stories done dun, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up

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<v Speaker 1>n SVU podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa.

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<v Speaker 2>Tragger And every week we talk about an episode of

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<v Speaker 2>Law and Order SVU, the true crime it's based on.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have an incredible guest that is from the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, we bring it to you every time.

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<v Speaker 3>She bring it to you every ball. Why are you

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<v Speaker 3>acting gagged? Is that it?

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<v Speaker 4>No?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's something like, why you gagged? You bring it

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<v Speaker 3>to you every ball? Yeah? Have I bought drag Queen

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<v Speaker 3>merch this week? Yes? I have? Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Lisa sent our group text chain of which most of

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<v Speaker 1>us watch Drag Race, but one person doesn't. The Simone's

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<v Speaker 1>Beast outfit that she wore last week. You bought the

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<v Speaker 1>T shirt of it. It's like, looks like you're wearing it,

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<v Speaker 1>like those bikini shirts where it looks like you're wearing

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<v Speaker 1>with aikini, but it looks like you're wearing Simone's furry outfit,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was very confused.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, She's like, are you a furry now? I'm like,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't even fucking get it, you dumb bitch.

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<v Speaker 4>No.

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<v Speaker 2>She is a great friend. But I don't know why

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<v Speaker 2>she won't watch drag Race. She loves Top Chef, she

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<v Speaker 2>likes Project Runway, she likes The Housewife Like, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>understand why she won't make the jump into the greatest

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<v Speaker 2>show of all time.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what, Ill, it's my best friend too. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't you watch it? You're an art teacher like

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<v Speaker 1>you would absolutely love. You're a lesbian art teacher, like

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<v Speaker 1>the show is for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I actually just got an art teacher involved in

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<v Speaker 2>elementary school art teacher two weeks, She's already watched four

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<v Speaker 2>seasons in two weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, see this is what I need to get my

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<v Speaker 1>best friend from home on board. But Liza, what else

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<v Speaker 1>is going on? I got the vaccine. Guys, if you

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<v Speaker 1>can get the vaccine, oviously.

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<v Speaker 3>Fucking get it. Please, let's all get back to normal

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<v Speaker 3>as soon as we can. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a theory this summer STDs are gonna skyrocket.

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<v Speaker 2>I think people are gonna be vaccinated horny and just

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<v Speaker 2>fucking in the streets, and I think there's gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>like a herpies outbreak.

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<v Speaker 3>That's just I hope not. But that's just a theory.

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<v Speaker 1>That once you're vaccinated, please keep in mind that STIs

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<v Speaker 1>are still happening and be safe.

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<v Speaker 2>So my friend told me that she read an article

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<v Speaker 2>that Putin did get vaccinated. So I went to my

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<v Speaker 2>dad and I went, Dad, your favorite person got vaccinated?

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, who Leonardo DiCaprio. What he loves Leo?

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<v Speaker 3>He loves Leo Leo? Yeah, like your dad. I bet

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<v Speaker 3>your dad loved The Revenant. He was like, that's a man,

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<v Speaker 3>get inside of a bear.

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<v Speaker 2>He's loved him since the beginning when he when he

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<v Speaker 2>lost the Oscar to Tommy Lee Jones back in the

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<v Speaker 2>day for What's Eating Gilbert Great. My dad like anytime

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<v Speaker 2>Leo loses an award, he kind of would scream at

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<v Speaker 2>us and go upstair like he would be over the awards,

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<v Speaker 2>like he wouldn't care anymore, Like he's just been a

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<v Speaker 2>Leo statist.

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<v Speaker 3>So funny. Yeah, they just love him, and I love him.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I love him too. He was a fun me.

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<v Speaker 1>He's great, but like that's really funny for that to

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<v Speaker 1>like alter your mood.

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<v Speaker 3>How Leonardo DiCaprio's doing.

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<v Speaker 1>So wait, so when you told him about Putin getting

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<v Speaker 1>the vaccine, did it sway anything?

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<v Speaker 3>Did you see anything shift behind his eyes? No, it's

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<v Speaker 3>really frustrating.

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<v Speaker 2>And you said your friend that's Russian is confused as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's like, yeah, I don't know what they're doing.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, I don't know what's happening.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I was telling Lisa that my friend uh Ina,

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<v Speaker 1>who listens to the podcast, texted me or no, sorry

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<v Speaker 1>facetimed me and was like, I'm just I'm having a

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<v Speaker 1>hard time placing what's going on with with Lisa's parents,

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<v Speaker 1>like they still like they love Russia, Like, what's going on?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, speaking of Russia.

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<v Speaker 2>So Vulture put out a list of thirty two greatest

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<v Speaker 2>character actors that are working today. Our friend to Parner,

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<v Speaker 2>non Sherla is on it, which is incredible.

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<v Speaker 3>Barnapkin on Twitter follow her.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so jealous of her. She's a voice in BoJack

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<v Speaker 2>Horseman and yeah, she's great. It is weird when you

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<v Speaker 2>have goals and then those things end and you know

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<v Speaker 2>you'll never have them again, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, like, I don't ever say that they're over. Everything's

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<v Speaker 1>being rebooted. BoJack will be back in ten years. You'll

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<v Speaker 1>be a voice of a penguin or some shit.

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<v Speaker 3>It's right, that's the nicest thing you've ever said.

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<v Speaker 2>No, But also on a sadder note, like I always

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<v Speaker 2>was like I will meet Joan Rivers and then I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I know.

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<v Speaker 3>I felt that way about Robin Williams. I was like,

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<v Speaker 3>I will meet him one day, and then I never did. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But outside of a Parna, the list is littered with

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<v Speaker 2>SVU people. Dennis O'Hare, who's been in two episodes, and

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<v Speaker 2>then Rita Calhoun was on the list, Who's Elizabeth Marvel?

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<v Speaker 2>And then a bunch of people that I've like, Greta Lee,

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<v Speaker 2>her first role was SVU. There was a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>people where their first roles were SVU.

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<v Speaker 3>And who's the guy the Tablowski I don't know, just

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<v Speaker 3>excited even Tobolewski.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but the reason I thought of it is because

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<v Speaker 2>one of the guys from the Russians was on it.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the Americans, I'm okay, same thing, yeah, But

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<v Speaker 2>Judy Greer and then Judy M. Baker who is the

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<v Speaker 2>mom in Freaks and Geeks. She was in an SVU

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<v Speaker 2>episode and she's amazing in it. She like, won't let

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<v Speaker 2>her son. She's like, well, we'll test him at trial.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll test it at trial. Who would ever convict him?

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<v Speaker 2>And then he goes to jail for life? Do you

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<v Speaker 2>remember I don't know who this person is?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, you do.

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<v Speaker 2>She was in Girls. She was Lena Dunham's mom and Girls.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, she's wonderful.

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<v Speaker 3>She's so good. So yeah, it was just cool to see,

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<v Speaker 3>like SVU and like everybody's origin story. Lance Reddick, who

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<v Speaker 3>you were in corporate with. Yes, I mean we didn't meet.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't on my shoet day, but I did see

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<v Speaker 1>him at the I did see him at the season

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<v Speaker 1>whatever three rap party with his wife and was like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, bosh.

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<v Speaker 3>You guys know I'm a bosch head and he's wait Li's.

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<v Speaker 1>I also wanted to give you a quick update on

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<v Speaker 1>the Obama chocolates. They are back in my possession. Great,

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<v Speaker 1>and you guys can go to our Instagram. We've already

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<v Speaker 1>posted about it and the Obama chocolates because you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>that we I love them. At a stoner friend's house

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<v Speaker 1>that you were worried about. I did put a post

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<v Speaker 1>it on it that says do not eat in sharpie

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<v Speaker 1>capital letters, as if that would stop like an extremely

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<v Speaker 1>high person for eating chocolate.

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<v Speaker 3>But those are our friends who do no sweets.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, but that's because one of them has a

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<v Speaker 1>very hard addiction to sweets.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And then I sent them Girl Scout cookies. So

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a person and become full sadist. You know, at a.

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<v Speaker 2>Certain point, the kids have too many toys, So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I sent them cookies, and you got to support the girls.

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<v Speaker 3>That's true. I bought six boxes. They were gone in

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<v Speaker 3>a week. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I will be in La by the next episode.

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<v Speaker 3>Guys like, Yeah, I'm really excited, exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll see actual photos of Karen I together as it's happening,

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<v Speaker 2>which I'm excited about.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be coming to you live from Rosie's second

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<v Speaker 1>birthday party, which is like four people.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't wait. I'm really excited to be in the sun.

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<v Speaker 2>And before we get into this classic episode, I do

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<v Speaker 2>want to say I've been on pins and needles.

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<v Speaker 3>This week.

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<v Speaker 2>I was one of the finalists to get a part

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<v Speaker 2>in a pilot on a huge network, and so obviously

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<v Speaker 2>I was wid Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>No, it's very exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, my friend always says I take Instagram

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<v Speaker 2>as gospel, and I read so many inspirational quotes.

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<v Speaker 3>Nothing fazes me, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just like, this wasn't meant for me, and something

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<v Speaker 2>better will come, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm very good about that. This door is closing, baby bed,

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<v Speaker 3>a window is creaking open as we speak. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty chill.

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<v Speaker 2>But they do tell you how much money you're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>make before you know.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't get the part. It's true.

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<v Speaker 2>They my mom called them say this. She's like, what

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<v Speaker 2>the fuck is wrong with these people? I'm like, it

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<v Speaker 2>is a wild world. But I was walking with my

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<v Speaker 2>sister and I was like, I already picked out my

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<v Speaker 2>lou Vaton bag that I'm going to get as a celebration,

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<v Speaker 2>And she goes, how about your laptop.

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<v Speaker 3>She's like, isn't it eight years old? And you had

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<v Speaker 3>to delete? Uh? What's the iMovie?

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<v Speaker 2>My printer won't connect to it because it's so old

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<v Speaker 2>it has no memory. Didn't even cross my mind to

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<v Speaker 2>buy a laptop. She goes, your cell phone is your

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<v Speaker 2>nephew's hand me down. You have your nephew's old phone.

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<v Speaker 2>She's like, you don't want to buy a phone or

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<v Speaker 2>a laptop. You're already looking at Louis Vaton bags. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's why you're my older sister.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you for you. Yeah, but now I have no

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<v Speaker 3>extra money, so never mind, never mind, buy our merch people. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>and order a cameo from Lisa.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, guys, let's get into today's episode, Conscience.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, this is episode six, season six, uh oh,

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<v Speaker 2>one away from the Devil's Number. This is called consciousness.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm called conscience. Okay, that's I knew I was gonna

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<v Speaker 2>say it wrong. I kept spelling it wrong the whole time.

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<v Speaker 2>It's every time I search for it to watch it.

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<v Speaker 2>I it's a hard word. So conscious conscious conscious Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we all know that's all.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not conscious, it's conscious. Okay, Okay, yeah, that's what

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<v Speaker 3>I thought, con science, Lisa. If that helps.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was a tough one for me, but one

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<v Speaker 2>of my classic favorite episodes.

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<v Speaker 3>Got to be honest here. So we start. We're at

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<v Speaker 3>a birthday party.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like a Discovery Zone Chuck E Cheese type place,

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<v Speaker 2>and instantly I'm jealous of these children.

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<v Speaker 3>How much do you miss it? I mean we had

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<v Speaker 3>a Discovery Zone. I never had a Chuck E Cheese.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I saw Chuck E Cheese on TV, but

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<v Speaker 1>I Discovery Zone was where we did our parties.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, when you like licked all of it, like not licked.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's like we got to play in these communal areas,

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<v Speaker 2>touch everything, and then eat pizza without washing her hands.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like a distant memory. I gotta tell you, I

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<v Speaker 3>think that these might be a these might be lost

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<v Speaker 3>to a post COVID world.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that we're gonna be able to have

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<v Speaker 1>these kind of places anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I have six thousand points left on my dam

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<v Speaker 2>and Buster's card, so we better get these back because

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<v Speaker 2>I have.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm ready to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Wednesday is half priced game Night, and I miss it

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<v Speaker 2>so fucking much. So the mom is rubbing one kid's

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<v Speaker 2>face and yelling at theo this other kid. The kid's like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not your part, but listen, motherhood's hard. Motherhood at

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<v Speaker 2>a child's birthday party that's another level. And should that

0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:29.600
<v Speaker 2>be on a T shirt?

0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.719
<v Speaker 3>Maybe? So it's a lot. And then the kid is like.

0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.400
<v Speaker 2>Ah, I want more cake and the mom's like shut up,

0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and then Theodore is running and she's like where are you.

0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's like fucking chaos, and then all of

0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, Bye bye, Henry.

0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.240
<v Speaker 3>Henry is fucking gone. So Henry is the kid.

0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.800
<v Speaker 2>He disappears from Discovery Zone and we're at work really

0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.600
<v Speaker 2>fucking quick right away, and we get a special treat

0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Kragan in the streets. So it's Stabler, Benson, Kragan. They're

0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:01.280
<v Speaker 2>at work right away. Mariska's hair is bronzy blonde, That's.

0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.800
<v Speaker 3>What I'm going for. And Stabler's in a denim jacket.

0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:06.679
<v Speaker 3>Very sexual. I liked it.

0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Casual Friday, Stabler and iced Tea is on the scene.

0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.199
<v Speaker 2>It's all hands on deck. Henry is They're gonna fucking

0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.600
<v Speaker 2>find him. So the kid was only out of camera

0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.480
<v Speaker 2>range for five seconds and he's gone. So Marishka concludes

0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 2>this is obviously a pro because he knew where the

0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.319
<v Speaker 2>camera was. He's not detectable, and he's snuck out quick.

0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.520
<v Speaker 2>So we're looking for an experienced kid grabber.

0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.640
<v Speaker 3>So on the streets we have mister Batch, we have

0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.200
<v Speaker 3>mister Wait, Vagilante is not what you were gonna say.

0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we have mister vigilante justice on her hands. Malcolm Wolynski,

0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.679
<v Speaker 2>He's cost them other investigations.

0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:52.720
<v Speaker 3>He is so annoying.

0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.760
<v Speaker 2>And Craigan's like, you need to stop listening to the

0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.640
<v Speaker 2>police scanner and get a life, and Marishka's like get lost.

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.920
<v Speaker 3>So we hate Marty Okay, I mean Malcolm.

0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:07.560
<v Speaker 2>So we hate Malcolm. He looks like a softball coach.

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.559
<v Speaker 2>And then there's a woman who says she saw a

0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 2>kid with the man and they went down to the trains.

0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 2>So then they go to talk to the MTA worker

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.880
<v Speaker 2>who remembers a kid flipping out and a dad with

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 2>red hair. Now this is the most non realistic thing

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that SVU has ever portrayed. A helpful MTA worker I

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.840
<v Speaker 2>will live to see the day. I mean, they are

0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the most aloof workers behind the glass. I've never been

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.199
<v Speaker 2>helped by one MTA worker. My card can be bad.

0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I don't know when they're like get away

0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 2>from me.

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you could truly be being chased by a murderer

0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 1>and they'd be like please please move upstairs, Like they

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 1>just don't.

0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.360
<v Speaker 2>And if you're an MTA worker, that's like, I do

0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a good job. Email us because I don't think you exist.

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm not worried. They bust down the door of this

0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 2>man they like track from the MTA card to a

0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 2>credit card, and and Benson is talking to the kid

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 2>that they find in this apartment. They're like, everything's gonna

0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.840
<v Speaker 2>be okay, Henry. He goes, who's Henry? This isn't the

0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.679
<v Speaker 2>right kid. So they look similar with the photo they

0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.080
<v Speaker 2>do look similar, but it's a stepdad. Henry just hates

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.280
<v Speaker 2>his stepdad. It's a tale as old as time. I'm

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.240
<v Speaker 2>a stepdad, classic white guy. He's just like, I wi

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 2>are badge numbers. I'm gonna sue all of you. And

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.040
<v Speaker 2>it's like, okay, so you know, I'm thrilled to have

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 2>mistakes and tribulations. So early in this episode, we come

0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 2>back from the credits and the kid has now been

0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 2>missing for three hours. They go to the parents' house

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:38.840
<v Speaker 2>and it's fucking Kyle McLaughlin.

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 3>Are you fucking kidding me? Aka Trey McDougall.

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.840
<v Speaker 1>I literally just like have to say that he was

0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 1>when I was like a teen preteen teen, he was

0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 1>like my number one, Like I have always thought he

0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 1>was the hottest man.

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.880
<v Speaker 3>I loved him in twin Peaks. I've just always had

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.960
<v Speaker 3>such a huge crush on him. I just love his

0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.520
<v Speaker 3>like dark hair and like his whole look. I love

0:13:58.600 --> 0:13:59.520
<v Speaker 3>him so.

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.319
<v Speaker 2>I I've only found out about him first through sex

0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.080
<v Speaker 2>in the City, so I obviously had intense hatred for him,

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.880
<v Speaker 2>love but hatred. Trey McDougall, talk to your wife, you know,

0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 2>fuck her well. And then I saw Showgirls later in life,

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 2>and that was a very sexual scene. And then I

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 2>became in love with Kyle McLaughlin. His hair is probably

0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 2>one of the most beautiful in Hollywood. I would say

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.360
<v Speaker 2>the most luscious locks that we've seen on this show.

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 3>Saw Pepper Beauty.

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Yep, he is amazing. Green sweater, light blue collared shirt underneath.

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.480
<v Speaker 2>And he hands over the police an updated photos so

0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 2>they don't confuse another kid for Henry again, and I've

0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>never seen this in a storyline. They need something for

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 2>the Bloodhounds. The Bloodhounds get mentioned like eighty five times

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 2>in this episode. They need the bloodhounds, so he gives them,

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, some clothes for the Bloodhounds. And now I'm

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.360
<v Speaker 2>just singing of that Bloodhound Gang song.

0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember that? You and me baby? Nothing but mammals,

0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 3>So humiliated.

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.200
<v Speaker 2>They want I talk to the mother to get some

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 2>more details, but he gave her a sedative, and the cops,

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, they get suspicious. And then he's like, I'm

0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 2>a psychiatrist. I just wanted her to sleep, Like I'm

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 2>just being helpful. A uniformed cop comes in and says,

0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>there's a neighbor boy who saw something. The kid says

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 2>he was cleaning his skateboard in the morning.

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 3>What nerd is this? There's no way this kid skateboards.

0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>He's wearing a polo shirt, he has JTT like tween

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>heart Throb circa nineteen ninety seven hair. But he says

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 2>that he saw while Henry was playing in the yard

0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>that morning. He saw man parked in sunglasses, in a

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 2>baseball cap and a black Tyota.

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 3>He was a white guy. Didn't see the license plate.

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 3>He wished.

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 2>He told his mom in the morning. He's so so sorry.

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.880
<v Speaker 2>The kid's a nerd. Thanks for your information. We're off

0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 2>to do some work. And then we're back at the

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 2>scene and it's Marishka being like, where are these bloodhounds?

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 2>And the dogs are actually busy in Coney Island with

0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 2>another case. They'll be in an hour. So like.

0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 3>The dogs are booked, baby booked him blessed.

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 2>They tried to see what other pedophiles or if there's

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 2>any people in the system that have a black Tayota,

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>and there is. Billy Turner is a pedophile who got

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 2>out of jail two months ago, and he has an

0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.360
<v Speaker 2>apartment on Avenue B And they get to the apartment

0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 2>and who's there, fucking Willnski. Wllnsky is beating the shit

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 2>out of the pedophile and the pedophiles.

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Like, I'm cured. I'm cured. It wasn't me.

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 2>And he found this out through the police scanner. Now

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 2>can you just buy a police scanner?

0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's like how we talked about how can

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>you just buy full police uniforms, which, by the way,

0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 1>we hadn't We talked about this in another episode about

0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 1>how like you could just buy police uniforms at these

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 1>like army Navy stores and how that's crazy. And a

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.320
<v Speaker 1>listener wrote into us and said that you actually get

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 1>paid more as an actor on SVU if you have

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>your own cop outfit, so it's encouraged to go buy

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.680
<v Speaker 1>fake cop outfits. So I don't know how you get

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 1>a scanner, though I would assume the same kind of place, Hannah,

0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 1>do you It seems like you're looking this up.

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 5>Spy dot com has eight available police scanners to buy.

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 5>They order them by the best police Scanners and number

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.200
<v Speaker 5>eight there's a police scanning app on your smartphone you

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 5>can now get. But they have a million police scanners

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:11.199
<v Speaker 5>for sail here.

0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 6>Wow.

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 3>So I think it's pretty easy to get.

0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Think it's like it's radio waves you just got to get,

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, like it's not illegal.

0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.120
<v Speaker 5>They have handheld, they have car they're on Amazon m We're.

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 3>Like kids in school.

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 1>When I was in high school, like one or two

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.440
<v Speaker 1>guys would have a police scanner and they'd be like, yeah,

0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:27.880
<v Speaker 1>I know when they're coming to bust up the party

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:28.360
<v Speaker 1>because I have.

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 3>A police scanner. And you're like, but I don't. I

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 3>don't know if that like I don't know, maybe they

0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 3>were lying.

0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.200
<v Speaker 2>So mister vigilante Justice is keeping tabs and he's there

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 2>and Stabler and Willnski have a back and forth and

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.919
<v Speaker 2>he's like, I'll sue you for police brutality, and Elliot's like,

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 2>you could have fucked up a crime scene. If there's

0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.879
<v Speaker 2>any fingerprints of the kid, if there's any evidence like,

0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 2>what are you doing?

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Who is this guy?

0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.119
<v Speaker 2>The ball's on this fucking lunatic go back to softball practice.

0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Billy is adamant. He has never heard of this kid.

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 2>He was not there, he was at the laundry mat.

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.359
<v Speaker 2>And Maloney is trying to make him look at a

0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 2>picture of Henry. But Billy Shrink said, don't you look

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.160
<v Speaker 2>at any kid. Don't look at any pictures. So he's

0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.120
<v Speaker 2>avoiding looking at the kid, and it must be hard

0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to avoid photos of children. But he's committed to his recovery.

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>So the canines have found a cent. The German shepherd

0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.600
<v Speaker 2>is hard at work. It's not a bloodhound, it's shepherd. No,

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a German shepherd who's super cute. And they enter

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 2>a boarded up chain like door that leads to a

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 2>long alley. I've never seen an alley in New York

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 2>garbage pile and it's really sad. Henry is dead under

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.399
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of garbage bags at the Emmey's office. The

0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.639
<v Speaker 2>mom is crying. She can't handle this at all. So

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Kyle McLaughlin needs to be fucking strong, and he's calm

0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 2>as how. Melinda shows him the body and he goes

0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.479
<v Speaker 2>that's my son. And he's just such a good actor,

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Like you see the emotions bubbling up underneath him, but

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.879
<v Speaker 2>he is keeping it together and he is sad that

0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.439
<v Speaker 2>his son is there, but he needs to be strong.

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.159
<v Speaker 3>It's just like it's an amazing scene. He's such a

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:12.879
<v Speaker 3>good actor.

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.560
<v Speaker 1>And the woman is very good to the mom. She's

0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>been in a bunch of svus. I was like, where

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.280
<v Speaker 1>do I know her from? And I looked her up

0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.680
<v Speaker 1>for IMDb and I just knew her from other svus.

0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.480
<v Speaker 1>So she's been in a few. And they're both wearing

0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.280
<v Speaker 1>green sweaters again. Shout out to our amazing costume department.

0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.679
<v Speaker 1>Are we ever going to meet them? They need to

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:30.239
<v Speaker 1>talk to us.

0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I would love if it was just like

0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 2>one person this whole time, for twenty two years.

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:35.040
<v Speaker 3>Like a Pat Field.

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Kyle McLaughlan, Doctor Morton, he's asking all the questions

0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.840
<v Speaker 2>and we're getting all the information. He was not molested,

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.280
<v Speaker 2>but he was suffocated by small pebbles found in his trachea,

0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 2>and there was brown cat hair, but the Mortons.

0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Don't have a cat.

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.879
<v Speaker 2>So doctor Morton says, you call me the second you

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.359
<v Speaker 2>find the bastard who murdered my son. And of course

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Elliott is very taken by this case because he's a father.

0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 2>So they are talking about how composed he is, and

0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Elliott says he's a ticking time bomb. They found Billy's

0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.679
<v Speaker 2>car and it's stripped and torched, so that's fucking telling.

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Jake the skateboard dork is now doing the lineup and

0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:15.679
<v Speaker 2>he says it's either number three or two. He just

0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know. He can't super investigate the guy. Casey Novak's there.

0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 2>She looks a little disappointed, and so there's a lot

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 2>going on at the precinct right now. We're dealing with Jake,

0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 2>with Wallinski, with the Emmy's office.

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot happening.

0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 2>And now we're back in interrogation with Billy and they're screaming,

0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 2>like we.

0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Identify there's cat here in your apartment. He's like, I

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:35.880
<v Speaker 3>don't have a cat.

0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 2>But then he says he will admit something, but he's

0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.399
<v Speaker 2>scared because he's violated parole and he doesn't want to

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 2>go back to jail. He gets raped in jail every

0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.560
<v Speaker 2>single day, and they're like, you won't go to jail,

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.280
<v Speaker 2>tell us what you did. So he has an alibi,

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.600
<v Speaker 2>and basically he was babysitting his neighbor's kid. He said

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 2>that the neighbor forced him to babysit, she had no

0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.920
<v Speaker 2>other options and he's not allowed to be a with children.

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.920
<v Speaker 2>We find out he actually begged to babysit the kid,

0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.880
<v Speaker 2>but the kid was not touched, nothing bad happened. So

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.040
<v Speaker 2>he did violate parole, which is fucked up, but he

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't do anything wrong. So I don't really know how

0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to feel about this.

0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's conflict. That that's a conflict. I feel like

0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how to feel either.

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 2>But like you know, if he kept babysitting, would he

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 2>eventually not be able to control his urges?

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 3>Right? I just don't know. But he is alibied.

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.080
<v Speaker 2>It is not him, And the timing of ending babysitting

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.600
<v Speaker 2>and getting to Riverdale and the cat hairs don't match.

0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.359
<v Speaker 3>It's just it's not fucking Billy, okay.

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.320
<v Speaker 2>In the Nightstalker Gilbert language, it's it's a freak, but

0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:44.719
<v Speaker 2>not my freak. That's from Detective Gilbert. So it just

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't make sense. It is a red herring. It's

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 2>what s View does best. They're not going to show

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.399
<v Speaker 2>us Billy up top. Okay, it's just not gonna happen.

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 2>So they drive Billy back to his house and we

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.639
<v Speaker 2>Linski is there again, and there's a bunch of people

0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 2>and they're all parading around, not parading, what is it protesting?

0:21:59.800 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 6>They?

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the pedophile off the streets.

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Hardly a parade.

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 2>And then I didn't know this, but Benson says, you

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:08.960
<v Speaker 2>need a permit to have what is it a megaphone?

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.400
<v Speaker 3>A megaphone? Yeah, so yes, they.

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Arrest him for inciting a riot and not having a

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 2>permit for this megaphone. And the crime lab we're with

0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Hatty Hatty Mike Doyle.

0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.280
<v Speaker 3>Oh yes, he is so hot.

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 2>He is hot, And fuck you Stucky for taking away

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 2>our science arm not arm candy, heart candy, what is

0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.120
<v Speaker 2>it eye candy, eye candy, I candy.

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 3>I need to socialize again, Like.

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Being alone in an apartment has completely destroyed me because

0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.360
<v Speaker 2>the only people I hang out with is my parents

0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 2>and we're speaking Russian and I am just like I'm

0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.639
<v Speaker 2>getting grossy. I need I need help. I need to

0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 2>find a cure. Oh, you gotta FaceTime me more, Kara.

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I think that is what we're learning here. I need

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:55.640
<v Speaker 2>more interactions.

0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:57.200
<v Speaker 3>Keep your English up.

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 2>The pebbles are quartz, Hello la, which is and there

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 2>is prince on the pebbles, and the thing is they're

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:09.719
<v Speaker 2>perfect and they're tiny.

0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 3>These are child prince.

0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.120
<v Speaker 2>This is not an adult and it's not Henry's and

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Benson asks do you have the pebbles? And of course

0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.280
<v Speaker 2>he does, and the pebbles look exactly like the one

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.119
<v Speaker 2>from jac O'Hara's yard. That is great detective memory to

0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.600
<v Speaker 2>match those pebbles. I want to play match game with her.

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:29.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she her memory like she would be crushing it.

0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:32.520
<v Speaker 2>I just can't believe she clocked the pebbles in the

0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 2>yard and can match them. So back in investigation, we

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 2>have the blonde mom and she's played by actress Joanna

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Day or Johanna.

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:43.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I don't know there's an h in there.

0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:45.520
<v Speaker 3>I think it's Joanna. It is. They just threw an

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:47.800
<v Speaker 3>h in there for what. Yeah, there's just a lot

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.720
<v Speaker 3>of Joannas that have an H in there. Yeah. Crazy.

0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:53.240
<v Speaker 2>And she's been on Law and Order, Criminal Intent and

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Trial by Jerry. Can you fucking believe it? She's been

0:23:55.800 --> 0:24:00.159
<v Speaker 2>on four Law and Order franchises. So the boys like

0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:04.040
<v Speaker 2>an innocent act and he goes, sorry, I didn't you know,

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't do the lineup. Well, I only saw the

0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.639
<v Speaker 2>picture for a second and they go what what fucking picture?

0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:12.680
<v Speaker 2>And he says that a detective showed him a picture

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:17.120
<v Speaker 2>and they go what detective, and the mom classic classic

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 2>asshole line is like, don't you people talk to each

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.480
<v Speaker 2>other and they bring in Willnsky and Willinsky is the

0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:26.640
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote detective that showed Billy's photo to this kid

0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:31.880
<v Speaker 2>to make sure to get this ID. So I mean, oh, Wellnsky,

0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:35.440
<v Speaker 2>how much more fucking up can you do for us?

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm the boss on Flintstone, like flints Down, Okay,

0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I.

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Think there's one there's something to be said for, like

0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.200
<v Speaker 1>police accountability and trying to like bring awareness to crimes

0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:46.119
<v Speaker 1>that you think that the cops are not paying attention to.

0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.760
<v Speaker 1>But this is like full interference in police investigation.

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, so you know, Elliot obviously throws them into

0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 2>a filing cabinet. We need, we need one shove, one

0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:01.119
<v Speaker 2>shove an episode and he basically tells you're going to jail.

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you coached a kid to give a false

0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:08.879
<v Speaker 2>testimony and lie like you're a fuckhead. The boy starts

0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 2>getting a little bit of tears in his eyes and

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:13.879
<v Speaker 2>open mouth of face shock, and they do the soda

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:16.960
<v Speaker 2>can trick. He's been drinking soda and Benson picks it

0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 2>up with a pencil and goes, we're going to match

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:21.480
<v Speaker 2>these prints with the prince on the pebbles.

0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 3>We know you fucking did.

0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:26.280
<v Speaker 2>It, and go fuck yourself, kid, and he knows he

0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:28.480
<v Speaker 2>got got and you see his little brain working. He's

0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:30.879
<v Speaker 2>a really talented young little man. Like you can see

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:31.919
<v Speaker 2>there's something going on.

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 3>He stutters a little.

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.240
<v Speaker 2>He says he was scared, and the story he's selling

0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:38.720
<v Speaker 2>is that he fell on a neighbor's cat, killed the cat,

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 2>and Henry said he was going to tell on him,

0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:43.159
<v Speaker 2>and he didn't want to go back to that camp,

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 2>and the mom would send him back to this camp

0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:48.640
<v Speaker 2>if he killed the cat, so he had to stop Henry.

0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:51.720
<v Speaker 2>He just wanted him to stop and not talk. He

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to kill him. So that's the story we get.

0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 2>The mom is crying, oh no, it's my fault. I

0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.240
<v Speaker 2>sent him to a tough love camp. And then Jake

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.640
<v Speaker 2>pulls up his sleeve and he has cigarette burns all

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.560
<v Speaker 2>over his body. He says at this camp he got burned, cut,

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:08.720
<v Speaker 2>they put things inside of him, and that he'd rather

0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:13.600
<v Speaker 2>be dead than go back to the camp. And yeah,

0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 2>so that sucks. He got abused at this camp. So

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.320
<v Speaker 2>what are we gonna do here? Benson says, we still

0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:21.080
<v Speaker 2>have to place him under arrest, and the mom says,

0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 2>we're getting a lawyer, and it's like, too late, baby,

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.160
<v Speaker 2>he just confessed. Okay, he should have gone a lawyer

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 2>an hour ago. Doctor Morton, they tell him the news.

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:31.240
<v Speaker 2>He's so upset, he can't believe it. He loved Jake,

0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:34.359
<v Speaker 2>they're friends. What the fuck is going on? He's almost

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:38.199
<v Speaker 2>crying again, stopping himself. He's pretty amazing. And they do

0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:40.479
<v Speaker 2>tell doctor Morton that he was abused at this camp

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:45.359
<v Speaker 2>and psychology Daddy lets out like a guttural noise and says,

0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I need to see Jake please. He feels bad because

0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 2>he recommended this camp to the mom, so he is

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:57.040
<v Speaker 2>now kind of feeling responsible for the abuse that Jake

0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.159
<v Speaker 2>endured at this camp that led him to me, we

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 2>have this damage and be fucked up so much that

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.600
<v Speaker 2>he killed his son, Henry. We're at a rayment, Part

0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:09.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty two. We get Cleo Conrad as the defense attorney

0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:12.280
<v Speaker 2>played by Jill Marie Lawrence seventeen.

0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:14.800
<v Speaker 3>Episodes of U SV. She's great, she is very great.

0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Baylis said it two hundred thousand dollars. And we have

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.880
<v Speaker 2>a regular judge as well. We have Judge Lois Preston

0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:23.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty two episodes. She's the redheaded cutie.

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:24.400
<v Speaker 3>With the curly hair.

0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:28.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she does not take no shit. What judge does

0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:30.680
<v Speaker 3>take shit? I don't know, but not that one.

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So the daddy wants to talk to Jake and

0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Daddy no Kyle, Kyle McLaughlin, doctor Morton, psychiatrist, Green sweater prep.

0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Daddy wants to talk to Jake and Jake is like,

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:52.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry.

0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 3>Henry was my friend. And doctor is like, I know, Jake,

0:27:57.440 --> 0:27:59.280
<v Speaker 3>but why did you do it? And he says I

0:27:59.320 --> 0:27:59.800
<v Speaker 3>don't know.

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Some things wrong with me, and the doctor finally cries

0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:03.719
<v Speaker 2>a little bit.

0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:05.640
<v Speaker 3>So that's cool and.

0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.840
<v Speaker 2>This is a bummer. He asks what was Henry's words?

0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Like what did he say before you killed him? And

0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Jake reveals that Henry wanted his mommy and he was

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.080
<v Speaker 2>saying he wanted his mommy. And we've talked about this

0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:22.600
<v Speaker 2>before in other episodes, it seems like a very common

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:27.720
<v Speaker 2>thing for people to scream out before they are murdered

0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:30.960
<v Speaker 2>they want their mothers. So that's like a pretty sombering

0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:36.080
<v Speaker 2>detail in this kind of fun case. Now, Okay, Casey

0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:40.400
<v Speaker 2>reveals that they're trying him as an adult, and doctor

0:28:40.440 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Morton does not want this. He goes, I've already lost

0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:45.960
<v Speaker 2>one child. We cannot lose another child to jail. Elliott's like, listen,

0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:49.640
<v Speaker 2>that camp is none of your concern, and doctor Morton goes, yes,

0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 2>but he was abused and he's had a tough life,

0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:54.600
<v Speaker 2>and Casey says all of that evidence will be introduced,

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 2>and doctor Morton is just not here for it.

0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 3>So we get Bead Wong, Baby, what is your case?

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 3>What do you want? What are you telling us? What

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 3>will you teach us this week?

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Bed Wong and him in case You're talking on the

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 2>streets of New York and doctor Wong is like, but

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>he was traumatized, and Casey is like, yeah, but lots

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:13.280
<v Speaker 2>of traumatized people don't abuse people.

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:16.600
<v Speaker 3>So they take a day trip. Okay, so they're in

0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 3>the woods.

0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:19.600
<v Speaker 2>They decided to take a trip to this camp and

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:23.960
<v Speaker 2>the camp director says they should have never let Jake

0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:27.320
<v Speaker 2>come to this place for kids, because this is a

0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:31.520
<v Speaker 2>place for kids with behavior problems, not serious pathology issues,

0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:33.720
<v Speaker 2>and Jake is fucked up and he should have never

0:29:33.800 --> 0:29:36.760
<v Speaker 2>been here. Then we get a montage of funny looking kids.

0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:39.600
<v Speaker 2>So one little redhead kid who looks like he should

0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 2>be in Little Giants, like he has Sandlot vibes. He goes,

0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>he's sick, man, he's crazy, and he says that Jake

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 2>like hit him with Uh does this remind you of camp?

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Like hearing about oars and lakes and the cheat.

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:54.600
<v Speaker 1>But I mean it was an all girls camp. Nobody

0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 1>ever really physically attacked anyone else. But did you guys

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.440
<v Speaker 1>ever dances with the boy camps? Yeah we did, But

0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:04.000
<v Speaker 1>like even at the boy camp, there's not a lot

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:06.720
<v Speaker 1>of physical attacking. It's like a very positive environment.

0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:11.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I just know you really love summer camp. I do.

0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:13.240
<v Speaker 3>So this is not giving me the same vibe, but

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:13.680
<v Speaker 3>you know.

0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 1>I get I get where you're coming from.

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.520
<v Speaker 2>So Jake tried to drown this kid after hitting him

0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:22.880
<v Speaker 2>with a paddle the second day of camp, and he

0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:24.880
<v Speaker 2>held his head underwater and said, if you tell anyone,

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 2>I'll fucking kill you.

0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Another kid says he's a psycho.

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:30.360
<v Speaker 2>He threatened to kill me and then put a dead

0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:33.560
<v Speaker 2>gopher in his bed. And then the third kid is,

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:35.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I hope he's famous on TikTok.

0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:36.360
<v Speaker 3>He's incredible.

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:36.880
<v Speaker 6>I loved him.

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:38.960
<v Speaker 3>I love this kid doing push up pull ups.

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 2>He's doing pull ups. I don't think he's really doing

0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 2>There was definitely a box there. There's definitely a box.

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 2>There's no way this kid can get away with this

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 2>many pull ups. But he's really funny and he's just like,

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I gotta protect myself.

0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:52.240
<v Speaker 3>I ain't no psycho.

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:55.479
<v Speaker 2>And we find out that Jake's been burning himself with

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:58.880
<v Speaker 2>cigarettes and like laughing, and he's like a William Lewis

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.520
<v Speaker 2>in the making or something, because he's been putting matches

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:04.200
<v Speaker 2>in between his fingers and singing his skin and laughing.

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 2>So we get a lot of information and basically he's

0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the abuser, he's the psychopath.

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 3>And we don't trust a word that came out of

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.600
<v Speaker 3>his mouth. So Casey goes to talk.

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>To Judith Light Bureau chief Elizabeth Donnelly and Bedie Wong

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:21.479
<v Speaker 2>Is explaining the findings from the camp, and the camp

0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:24.320
<v Speaker 2>warned the mom and told the mom and she didn't listen,

0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:27.840
<v Speaker 2>and they go, he's a sociopath, and Elizabeth says, no,

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 2>he's only thirteen. And I guess you can't be a

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 2>sociopath until you're eighteen or diagnosed. And someone actually wrote

0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:36.240
<v Speaker 2>that to us as well, some of our listeners. So

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 2>you can't really be diagnosed sociopath as a kid. But

0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Bidie Wong says, yeah, but he has all the signs.

0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:45.000
<v Speaker 2>He's glib, he lies, he has no remorse, no empathy, narcissistic,

0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>He's tricked everyone. He's tricked the cops, the camps, his mother.

0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Like we're professionals, he's tricked us. Like this kid is

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:58.960
<v Speaker 2>fucking good. Get him on OSCAR and it's a personality disorder.

0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:01.320
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of shrinks believe there is no cure.

0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 2>You can't really grow a conscience. Okay, just wanted to

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 2>let everyone know I've learned, I've learned how to say it.

0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 2>So doctor Morton was in earlier and begged Donnaie to

0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.920
<v Speaker 2>get it moved to family court, so she did, which

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 2>is insane to me. You didn't talk to your lawyer

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 2>as a psychologist to the cot. You didn't talk to

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:25.040
<v Speaker 2>anyone like just a grieving father came babbling to you,

0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.800
<v Speaker 2>and you moved a whole murder case to family court.

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:29.720
<v Speaker 3>That seems insane. I don't know.

0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 2>And one morning, not even like give me an afternoon

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 2>to think about it. I'm just like shocked by her

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:35.720
<v Speaker 2>decision making.

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 3>Here.

0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:39.520
<v Speaker 2>So we're at family court where Elizabeth moved the case,

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.920
<v Speaker 2>and he's being moved to his mother's custody, which is

0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 2>in he murdered a kid.

0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:45.920
<v Speaker 3>What the fuck is going on?

0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:47.840
<v Speaker 1>And it's so law in order that all of this

0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:51.560
<v Speaker 1>is just happening at the same time. Like normally, like

0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:53.959
<v Speaker 1>court cases take forever, they would have been able to

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.760
<v Speaker 1>like appeal the family court decision, but it's like, uh

0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:58.080
<v Speaker 1>oh no, back walks in justice.

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:00.120
<v Speaker 3>He's being sentenced to the custody.

0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Of his mother, you know, like so and then Casey

0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Novak to the judge says, you know, we've made a mistake,

0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:10.040
<v Speaker 2>and the judge is super funny. She goes, Wow, that's

0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:12.440
<v Speaker 2>really refreshing. I've never heard that in my court room.

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>So I loved that, you know, I don't think lawyers

0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:19.880
<v Speaker 2>say they're wrong. And this actress, she died a few

0:33:19.920 --> 0:33:23.560
<v Speaker 2>years ago in twenty seventeen, but her name is Novella Nelson.

0:33:23.920 --> 0:33:26.960
<v Speaker 2>She's been in three episodes of Sview as two different characters.

0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:29.120
<v Speaker 2>But I looked her up on IMDb. She has seventy

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:31.680
<v Speaker 2>nine credits. She seems cool as hell with like a

0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:33.240
<v Speaker 2>very eclectic character.

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 3>It's just also a very cool name. Novella Nelson is

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:38.800
<v Speaker 3>a cool ass name. Yeah. I was really intrigued by her.

0:33:38.840 --> 0:33:40.760
<v Speaker 2>And she's been in Sex and the City in oz

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 2>and just like lots of movies. And I love SVU

0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 2>for showing us like all these incredible actors that maybe

0:33:48.960 --> 0:33:52.080
<v Speaker 2>aren't a list famous people, but it's nice to see

0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>working actors and it's kind of inspirational that you can

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:56.320
<v Speaker 2>have a career in the arts.

0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:57.080
<v Speaker 3>And I love that.

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>So and she died on my birthday, which I don't

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:02.080
<v Speaker 2>know how to feel about that. At first I was like, ooh,

0:34:02.080 --> 0:34:04.000
<v Speaker 2>a fellow virgo, and then I was like, oh, I

0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:09.480
<v Speaker 2>read the wrong line. Yeah, Casey wants to dismissed in

0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:11.719
<v Speaker 2>family court, but the judge says she can't dismiss it

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:14.759
<v Speaker 2>in family court because then it would go into double

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:17.160
<v Speaker 2>jeopardy because it was already in the regular court. So

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:20.040
<v Speaker 2>she dismisses it. He goes free and you can't try

0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 2>him again, and she's like, but we have new info.

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:25.880
<v Speaker 2>And doctor Warren is pissed because he is hearing all

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:29.520
<v Speaker 2>this and he's a trained psychiatrist, so we know, like

0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:32.359
<v Speaker 2>he gets it right away now, and he goes, Jake,

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:33.359
<v Speaker 2>I believed you.

0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:36.439
<v Speaker 3>I fought for you, You lying little bastard. He gives

0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:38.920
<v Speaker 3>a full Tyra Banks. He's like, we were rooting for you,

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:40.239
<v Speaker 3>we were all rooting for you.

0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:45.560
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, this is a creepy this scene I always

0:34:45.600 --> 0:34:46.920
<v Speaker 1>remember from this episode.

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he is screaming Maloney and a uniformed cop court

0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:54.960
<v Speaker 2>officer everyone has to hold Kyle mcglachom back as they

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:59.239
<v Speaker 2>drag him out, and he is just like screaming and

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Jake as a smirk, evil smirk, this piece of shit.

0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:06.600
<v Speaker 2>But Kyle can't even breathe. He's like, he's a sociopath.

0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:08.839
<v Speaker 2>If he gets out at eighty eighteen, he will kill

0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>again and again. And so Elliott and doctor more and

0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:17.120
<v Speaker 2>are walking in the hallway of the court and Jake

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:18.759
<v Speaker 2>comes out of the court and he's such a dick.

0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like, you already killed this man's kid, leave him alone.

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 2>And he goes I'm sorry for what happens, sir, I

0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:26.880
<v Speaker 2>really am. And it's like fucking Dennis the Menace, like

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 2>bullshit vibes, and Kyle McLaughlin shoves the man, grabs a

0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:34.200
<v Speaker 2>court officer's gun and shoots Jake and kills this little kid.

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:36.200
<v Speaker 3>Do I feel bad? No, not at all. Sorry, I

0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 3>don't care.

0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:42.759
<v Speaker 2>Quote me, bitch, And Elliott is like, yeah, I knew

0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 2>that guy was wound too tight.

0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:45.600
<v Speaker 3>And so we go back.

0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:49.160
<v Speaker 2>We remember the foreshadow in the beginning, and everything makes

0:35:49.160 --> 0:35:51.279
<v Speaker 2>sense in this episode, and we're like, where is this

0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:52.080
<v Speaker 2>gonna go now?

0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:52.520
<v Speaker 3>Now?

0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Donnelly is powerwalking her heels clickity clacking into the

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:58.840
<v Speaker 2>precinct and is like, Elliott, what the fuck? And Elliot's

0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:00.680
<v Speaker 2>like what the fuck? And they're fine, and it's like,

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 2>you're both wrong. Okay, sorry, Yes, Elizabeth, you shouldn't have

0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:05.319
<v Speaker 2>moved this to family Court.

0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:06.800
<v Speaker 3>You psychopathy is a murderer.

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Also, Elliott, how did you let him grab a gun

0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:12.359
<v Speaker 2>and murder someone in front of your eyes? You are

0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:14.400
<v Speaker 2>a trained detective of many, many years.

0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:17.279
<v Speaker 3>So that's happened like a bunch of times, like he

0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 3>has been a lot of times with them.

0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:23.320
<v Speaker 1>They got some butterfingers with these suspects. Sometimes they grab guns.

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:25.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh now I want a butterfinger.

0:36:26.680 --> 0:36:30.279
<v Speaker 2>They're also very close in each other's faces. I hope

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.920
<v Speaker 2>this was like an altoid's day on set. Yeah, really,

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.400
<v Speaker 2>I hope they choose some gum after lunch.

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Maloney always looks like he's going to kiss someone. He's

0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:40.279
<v Speaker 1>just always right up to someone. I wouldn't mind it,

0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 1>but anyway.

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:41.960
<v Speaker 3>No one would mind it.

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:45.799
<v Speaker 2>So Casey is in the mix too, because now she's

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:47.880
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of them, because now she has to

0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.759
<v Speaker 2>try doctor Morton Kyle McLaughlin. So Elizabeth says, you're going

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>to charge him with murder too, and Elliot's convincing Casey

0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 2>to move it down to manslaughter since he was crazed

0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:02.320
<v Speaker 2>and out of control. And doctor Morton has a great

0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:04.720
<v Speaker 2>defense attorney Chauncey Zerco.

0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:06.600
<v Speaker 3>And he looks like he owns.

0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Either a Russian or an Italian restaurant with an illegal

0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:11.319
<v Speaker 2>business in the back. That's the vibe I get from him.

0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:14.279
<v Speaker 2>Gray Hair Daddy, and he has seven episodes. And what

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:16.799
<v Speaker 2>name is Chauncey. It's like such a funny name to me.

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:19.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Yeah, I love the name Chauncey. Okay.

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:22.680
<v Speaker 2>So Kyle says that he remembers none of it, he

0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:28.240
<v Speaker 2>just snapped, and Casey doesn't believe it, and Chauncey recommends, like, fine,

0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:29.960
<v Speaker 2>have your psychologists evaluate him.

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:31.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't give a fuck, Like he's.

0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 2>He's been through trauma and this is so of the

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Times nineteen ninety nine. There's like a tape recorder in

0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:40.200
<v Speaker 2>the middle of the table as bead Wong is in

0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 2>talking to Kyle McLaughlin and Kyle's at Riker's in a

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.480
<v Speaker 2>jumpsuit army green, not orange like. I wonder if that

0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:49.440
<v Speaker 2>was his demand because he's such a big star. He's like,

0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:50.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not wearing orange like.

0:37:51.040 --> 0:37:53.680
<v Speaker 3>He's also been in shades of green throughout the whole episode.

0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Maybe continuity story, damn oy, Hello Benson, you notice all

0:37:59.920 --> 0:38:00.680
<v Speaker 3>the details.

0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:04.200
<v Speaker 2>And Kyle is an amazing actor. I keep saying this

0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:06.719
<v Speaker 2>throughout this whole thing. But he's fully crying and in pain,

0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:10.080
<v Speaker 2>but also playing a guy who doesn't remember anything. But

0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 2>does he And is was he a psychologist at that

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 2>moment or was he just agreeving dad?

0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Does he know what's happening? Does he remember? Was it

0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:17.960
<v Speaker 3>a plan?

0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Was it just because of the pain, like it really is, like,

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:22.319
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck was going on?

0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:23.279
<v Speaker 3>You really don't know?

0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:27.160
<v Speaker 2>And B D Wong and Casey Novak are Now there's

0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:29.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of side by side outdoor walking and talking

0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>in this episode, and he says he's like, the answers

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 2>are a little too perfect. I mean they're textbook. This

0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:37.480
<v Speaker 2>guy knows what he's talking about. But also that kind

0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:39.680
<v Speaker 2>of tragedy, it's a tough call. So what the fuck

0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:42.560
<v Speaker 2>is Casey Novak going to do? And doctor Morton is

0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:44.279
<v Speaker 2>on the stand and he said he would have never

0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:46.880
<v Speaker 2>killed Jake in his right mind. He said, yes, I

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:48.960
<v Speaker 2>did it. I can't really deny that it happened, but

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 2>I am sorry about it. And in the middle of

0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:55.440
<v Speaker 2>core bd Wong then gives Casey a textbook and she

0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:58.160
<v Speaker 2>is just like chilling reading in the middle of court,

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:01.560
<v Speaker 2>this like big textbook, which I love. And the judge

0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:03.279
<v Speaker 2>is like, hey, bitch, you want to get back to work,

0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:08.120
<v Speaker 2>and she's like, oh yeah, sure. So Casey says, like, so,

0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:10.640
<v Speaker 2>do you remember screaming that he's a sociopath and he'll

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.160
<v Speaker 2>kill again? And he says no, and that you know,

0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.400
<v Speaker 2>kids can't even be diagnosed to the sociopath till eighteen,

0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:20.600
<v Speaker 2>and Casey goes, but you don't agree with that, and

0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:23.040
<v Speaker 2>he maintains, He goes, I work by the standards of

0:39:23.040 --> 0:39:26.240
<v Speaker 2>my profession. So they bring out this journal from fifteen

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.960
<v Speaker 2>years ago and make doctor Morton read a highlighted passage

0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:33.799
<v Speaker 2>and he is quoted in there saying, if we fail

0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:37.120
<v Speaker 2>to incarcerate these killer kids, they will kill again. And

0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 2>so the psychoverlords won't allow this, but they have to

0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:43.440
<v Speaker 2>do what's right in protect society from these cold blooded killers.

0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.479
<v Speaker 2>And so Casey says, you wrote this and you found

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 2>a way to protect society, and you fucking killed this kid,

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:52.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't you. He goes, that was fifteen years ago, and

0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:55.040
<v Speaker 2>I would not have done that. I, you know, an

0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:57.640
<v Speaker 2>incarceration for life is what I believe in, like I

0:39:57.680 --> 0:39:59.960
<v Speaker 2>would not like killing is not what I had in mind.

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.040
<v Speaker 2>And when I even wrote that, and he says, in

0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:07.359
<v Speaker 2>that moment when he shot Jake, he was not a

0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:10.480
<v Speaker 2>psychologist but a grieving father. And I know I keep

0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:13.960
<v Speaker 2>saying psychologists and psychiatrists interchangeably. It's because I already forgot

0:40:14.000 --> 0:40:15.719
<v Speaker 2>which one he was, But I think psychiatrist.

0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:18.240
<v Speaker 3>He's a psychiatrist because he gave them meds.

0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:21.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I mean he obviously has a psychology background,

0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:24.320
<v Speaker 1>so I think we'll forgive you so much.

0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 3>So now we're back at the courtroom steps.

0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:31.320
<v Speaker 2>There is a lot of courtroom step action in this episode,

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:34.200
<v Speaker 2>like they filmed a lot outside and Casey and Elliott

0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:36.520
<v Speaker 2>are having a chat, and as always, Elliott will defend

0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:39.280
<v Speaker 2>any angry guy that kills because of his emotions.

0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:44.719
<v Speaker 3>He's always like, but I'm a father. Casey doesn't believe it.

0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:46.319
<v Speaker 3>She's like, he's screwing with us.

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:50.279
<v Speaker 2>And then right then and there, a process server serves

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Elliott Stabler.

0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:53.480
<v Speaker 1>At least it did that make you upset because that

0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:55.439
<v Speaker 1>was kind of like your role that you could have had.

0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was triggered. No, it definitely reminded me of

0:40:59.200 --> 0:41:02.600
<v Speaker 2>my failed audition. I was jumping their Now, this woman

0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:07.480
<v Speaker 2>killed her part. She was really good, and congrats. Yeah,

0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a competitive person at all.

0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:10.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm not sorry to bring it up.

0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:13.600
<v Speaker 1>I thought of you when now I think of you

0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:15.640
<v Speaker 1>whenever I see somebody that has one line on the

0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:17.239
<v Speaker 1>show delivering a document.

0:41:19.920 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so he's gonna go up there in the

0:41:22.320 --> 0:41:25.600
<v Speaker 2>defense and Chauncey and Elliott are taking the stand listen,

0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.399
<v Speaker 2>they're basically just like, did he know what was going on?

0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Was he aggrieving Dad?

0:41:29.760 --> 0:41:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Like they're just trying to figure out what Elliot saw

0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:36.880
<v Speaker 2>and what Elliott felt during that. And the closing arguments

0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 2>are here Casey's wearing a very Chase Bank manager skirt

0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:43.239
<v Speaker 2>suit outfit with a flip in her hair, and the

0:41:43.320 --> 0:41:46.480
<v Speaker 2>closing arguments are just like again like reiteration of what

0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:49.120
<v Speaker 2>the whole fucking case is, you know, is it like

0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:51.279
<v Speaker 2>did he lose control sad Dad? Or did he know

0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:54.839
<v Speaker 2>exactly what was going on? And Casey wants the jury

0:41:54.840 --> 0:42:00.080
<v Speaker 2>to hold him responsible. We find the defendant not guilty.

0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:01.319
<v Speaker 3>How did you feel?

0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:04.680
<v Speaker 1>I sort of felt like I knew that was coming.

0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:08.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's because eight times or because

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:11.920
<v Speaker 1>I just felt it in the air. I feel like,

0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:15.000
<v Speaker 1>though on a jury, you get one dad, one mom

0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.040
<v Speaker 1>that's like I would have done the same thing, and

0:42:17.239 --> 0:42:20.319
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to convince a whole jury that that was

0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:23.920
<v Speaker 1>a murder, you know, And Jake's.

0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Mom is in the court audience, and I don't know

0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:28.799
<v Speaker 2>what to say. I mean, I don't feel bad for her, No,

0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.480
<v Speaker 2>I do. I don't know. I would hate to have

0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:33.719
<v Speaker 2>a child and then they end up a sociopath. Like

0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:35.320
<v Speaker 2>that's fun, It's difficult.

0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:36.280
<v Speaker 3>What do you do? Yeah?

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what are you gonna do if Rosie one day

0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:40.600
<v Speaker 2>just lights a squirrel's tail on fire, I'm not.

0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 3>Putting it past her.

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.040
<v Speaker 1>She gets a real crazy look in her eye when

0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:45.919
<v Speaker 1>she throws plastic toys at my head.

0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:46.799
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know.

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:51.319
<v Speaker 2>Shauncey and Casey have a stare down that lasts like

0:42:51.440 --> 0:42:56.200
<v Speaker 2>seven seconds. It's really like an intense long stare. I

0:42:56.200 --> 0:43:00.600
<v Speaker 2>don't even understand what the tension is, Like, I don't

0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:00.960
<v Speaker 2>get it.

0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Maybe they were banging. Maybe no, I think I think

0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:09.600
<v Speaker 3>she can bag Hotter, but yeah, maybe he is. Okay,

0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:12.120
<v Speaker 3>let's get it.

0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:16.040
<v Speaker 2>So doctor Morton is doing a bunch of press again

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:18.600
<v Speaker 2>on the courtroom steps, like they deserve a guest Star

0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Emmy for this episode, and Elliott and Casey are you know?

0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:26.480
<v Speaker 2>On the sidewalk and he runs to them and Elliott asks,

0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 2>when did you decide to kill Jake? He responds in

0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:34.080
<v Speaker 2>the courtroom right when I knew what Jake was. He tells, Casey,

0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:37.400
<v Speaker 2>you were correct. I looked around and saw the court officer,

0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and I knew I could take the gun and just

0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:42.759
<v Speaker 2>waited for the right moment. And Elliott says, you manipulated

0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.120
<v Speaker 2>us just like Jake did. And Kyle says, there's one

0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:49.319
<v Speaker 2>big difference. Jake would have killed again, I won't and

0:43:49.400 --> 0:43:52.839
<v Speaker 2>he walks away and it ends with Elliott staring off

0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:53.840
<v Speaker 2>into the distance.

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Dick wal It's a really crazy episode. I

0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:01.560
<v Speaker 3>always remember. I always remember Jake going on, really sorry, sir,

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:05.360
<v Speaker 3>and that actor has not acted in the past five years,

0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:08.359
<v Speaker 3>And I mean I thought he was, like great, if

0:44:08.360 --> 0:44:10.480
<v Speaker 3>you're a friend of the guy who plays Jake, tell

0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:14.560
<v Speaker 3>him we'll always think of him fondly as a child's sociopath.

0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:17.320
<v Speaker 2>No, it's a great episode, lots of twists and turns,

0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:20.080
<v Speaker 2>lots of you know, debates of like what would you do?

0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:23.240
<v Speaker 2>It's like a really classic, incredible episode.

0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:27.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we'll be right back with the harrowing case

0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:45.160
<v Speaker 3>it was based on. We are back.

0:44:45.880 --> 0:44:49.160
<v Speaker 1>We are ready to talk about horrific crimes against children.

0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I have to say I was telling Lisa and our

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:54.560
<v Speaker 1>producer Hannah before ever since I had a kid, these

0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:57.080
<v Speaker 1>are just really really hard cases to read about. So

0:44:57.360 --> 0:44:59.880
<v Speaker 1>just giving everybody a warning up top, these are really terrible.

0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:03.279
<v Speaker 1>There's a few cases that this could be based on.

0:45:03.719 --> 0:45:05.680
<v Speaker 1>I'll just say one is the killing of two year

0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:09.200
<v Speaker 1>old James Bulger, which happened in the UK, and he

0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:11.080
<v Speaker 1>was murdered by two ten year old boys, and it

0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:13.359
<v Speaker 1>is truly one of the most horrific cases I've ever

0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:16.359
<v Speaker 1>read about. I've listened to podcasts about it, and I've

0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:19.799
<v Speaker 1>read about it extensively, and it's it just like gives

0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:22.800
<v Speaker 1>me nightmares. And then another one is the murder of

0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 1>John Pious on Long Island in nineteen seventy nine. He

0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:28.319
<v Speaker 1>was a thirteen year old who was killed by other

0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:30.719
<v Speaker 1>teenage boys who did shove rocks down his throat. So

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:33.239
<v Speaker 1>that's like the similarity with the pebbles in this episode.

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:37.160
<v Speaker 1>But I think that I've decided to focus on the

0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:39.760
<v Speaker 1>case of Eric M. Smith because I think it's probably

0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:42.920
<v Speaker 1>a little bit closer to what happened in this exact episode.

0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:45.520
<v Speaker 3>So get ready to get sad.

0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:49.759
<v Speaker 1>This crime took place on August second in nineteen ninety

0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:52.880
<v Speaker 1>three in Savonah, New York, which is a tiny village

0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:55.360
<v Speaker 1>with a population of nine hundred and seventy people, or

0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:57.239
<v Speaker 1>at the time I guess that was the population, so

0:45:57.360 --> 0:45:58.120
<v Speaker 1>super tiny.

0:45:58.760 --> 0:45:59.359
<v Speaker 3>Eric m.

0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Smith, age thirteen, was riding his bike home from summer

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:07.240
<v Speaker 1>day camp after being told to leave because of bad behavior,

0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:12.720
<v Speaker 1>and he spotted four year old Derek Roby walking along

0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:16.080
<v Speaker 1>alone to that same camp. Now, I was originally thinking,

0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:17.680
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, who lets a four year old walk

0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:20.760
<v Speaker 1>anywhere alone? But the camp was one block from his home,

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:23.480
<v Speaker 1>he only had one block to go, no streets to cross.

0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:25.600
<v Speaker 1>The park where the camp was was on a dead

0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 1>end street, so it was essentially just letting him go

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:29.920
<v Speaker 1>to the end of the street. And his mom said

0:46:29.960 --> 0:46:31.400
<v Speaker 1>it was the first time she ever let him go

0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.600
<v Speaker 1>anywhere alone, which is I mean always kind of the case,

0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:39.279
<v Speaker 1>and it's terrible. The details of the crime were not

0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:43.320
<v Speaker 1>made public at the time, but Derek's family later released

0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.839
<v Speaker 1>them to stop the killer from getting pearls. So this

0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 1>is what we learned later happened is that Smith lured

0:46:49.640 --> 0:46:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Derek into a nearby wooded area. He strangled him, dropped

0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:57.080
<v Speaker 1>a large twenty six pound rock on his head multiple times,

0:46:57.680 --> 0:47:01.319
<v Speaker 1>undressed his body, poured kool aid from his lunchbox all

0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:04.880
<v Speaker 1>over him, and then sodomized him with a small stick

0:47:04.960 --> 0:47:08.440
<v Speaker 1>that he found. He later claimed that he thought by

0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:10.719
<v Speaker 1>inserting the stick into the boy, it would reach up

0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:13.000
<v Speaker 1>and stop his heart. So I don't know if there

0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:16.680
<v Speaker 1>was necessarily a sexual angle to it or more just

0:47:16.760 --> 0:47:20.359
<v Speaker 1>an immature boy doing what he thought was like, you know,

0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:22.879
<v Speaker 1>like this was a video game or something like that.

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 3>It is just.

0:47:23.719 --> 0:47:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Wild that you could be a dumb child and still

0:47:26.520 --> 0:47:29.520
<v Speaker 2>commit murder like this. I thinking a stick can stop

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:32.680
<v Speaker 2>a heart if he's not dying, but then also commit murder.

0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:34.000
<v Speaker 3>It's like, what the fuck?

0:47:34.680 --> 0:47:34.879
<v Speaker 6>Right?

0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:38.560
<v Speaker 1>So the cause of death was determined to be blunt

0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:42.640
<v Speaker 1>forced trump it's the head with contributing asphyxia. So around

0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:44.719
<v Speaker 1>eleven am, his mom went to go pick him up

0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:47.240
<v Speaker 1>at the park, only to discover that he had never arrived.

0:47:47.320 --> 0:47:49.360
<v Speaker 3>After four hours, they found his body.

0:47:49.520 --> 0:47:52.840
<v Speaker 1>So because there was literally a block of land to cover,

0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:56.960
<v Speaker 1>this is what I find insane. Four days after his

0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:59.799
<v Speaker 1>body has found, Eric the thirteen year old, goes to

0:47:59.800 --> 0:48:02.160
<v Speaker 1>THEO to see if he can help with the investigation,

0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:06.160
<v Speaker 1>and the investigator, John Hibbish, I don't know how to

0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:09.400
<v Speaker 1>say this last name, it's hib Scch, I'll just say Hibbish,

0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:13.520
<v Speaker 1>said Eric was enjoying talking to the police, like he

0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:16.800
<v Speaker 1>seemed really uppy and happy, and at first he denied

0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:18.880
<v Speaker 1>seeing Derek and then changed his story and said that

0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:20.520
<v Speaker 1>he saw him and he could describe what he was

0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:23.400
<v Speaker 1>wearing in his lunchbox and everything. And then at some

0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 1>point during his questioning, I guess his dad was with him,

0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:29.920
<v Speaker 1>his stepdad Smith asked to take a break, and his

0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:31.839
<v Speaker 1>dad brought him a glass of kool aid. And then

0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:34.440
<v Speaker 1>when Hibbish started continuing to question him, he grabbed the

0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:36.520
<v Speaker 1>kool aid and just threw it on the ground. And

0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:38.560
<v Speaker 1>they knew that kool aid had been poured on the body,

0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:41.200
<v Speaker 1>so it was like it was just like red flags

0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:45.160
<v Speaker 1>for this guy, Hibbish the investigator. The next day, Eric

0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:47.960
<v Speaker 1>takes them on like a little walkthrough of where he

0:48:48.000 --> 0:48:51.120
<v Speaker 1>saw Derek, and they still think he's kind of enjoying himself,

0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:54.080
<v Speaker 1>like being part of the investigation, like everybody paying attention

0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to him, talking, cops talking to him, blah blah blah.

0:48:56.719 --> 0:49:00.560
<v Speaker 1>There's an interesting little tidbit that Smith's neighbor, Marlene Heskell,

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:02.879
<v Speaker 1>they were friends of the Smith family, said that Eric

0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:05.200
<v Speaker 1>was at their house every night from the night of

0:49:05.239 --> 0:49:08.799
<v Speaker 1>the murder like until later, and he would ask weird

0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:10.360
<v Speaker 1>questions like what if it turned out to be a

0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 1>kid and the end, she would say something like I

0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:16.000
<v Speaker 1>seriously think they would need some psychiatric help, and he'd

0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:17.640
<v Speaker 1>be like okay and then walk away.

0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:19.600
<v Speaker 3>And then he would always be like and DNA testing,

0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:21.240
<v Speaker 3>what does that show?

0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:25.200
<v Speaker 1>So he was like interested in how cases work and

0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:29.440
<v Speaker 1>people getting caught for murder. Marlene, this neighbor actually did

0:49:29.440 --> 0:49:33.319
<v Speaker 1>her own little Sherlock homes Olivia Benson work because the

0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:37.040
<v Speaker 1>murderer had taken the banana out of the victim's lunchbox

0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:40.160
<v Speaker 1>and smashed it everywhere, and so they were speculating that

0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.400
<v Speaker 1>the murderer could be a kid who didn't like bananas,

0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:45.320
<v Speaker 1>because like an adult would just be like, oh a

0:49:45.400 --> 0:49:48.000
<v Speaker 1>banana and throw it away. They wouldn't like squash it

0:49:48.040 --> 0:49:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and like make a huge mess of destroying it.

0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I wouldn't want to leave any DNA

0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:54.560
<v Speaker 2>evidence if I committed a crime. But like I love

0:49:54.600 --> 0:49:57.759
<v Speaker 2>squeezing raw chicken, Like I like, uh, look, I like

0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:01.760
<v Speaker 2>whenever I out and I just want to like school.

0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:04.480
<v Speaker 3>I just love that chicken.

0:50:08.560 --> 0:50:12.239
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, Marlene decides to do this little experiment where

0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 1>she goes to the store buys ice cream, nuts, syrup,

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:17.640
<v Speaker 1>and bananas and is like, who wants a Sunday and

0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:19.839
<v Speaker 1>Eric was gonna have nuts in syrup, but he didn't

0:50:19.840 --> 0:50:22.000
<v Speaker 1>want banana and was like, no, I don't like bananas.

0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:24.600
<v Speaker 1>And so she called her friend Nancy and said, Eric

0:50:24.600 --> 0:50:29.399
<v Speaker 1>doesn't like bananas. I'm scared, okay, so like And then

0:50:29.520 --> 0:50:33.000
<v Speaker 1>on August eighth, nineteen ninety three, six days after the murder,

0:50:33.120 --> 0:50:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Eric Smith confessed to his mother that he murdered Derek.

0:50:36.520 --> 0:50:39.920
<v Speaker 1>So obviously the case made national headlines.

0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:42.920
<v Speaker 2>So he's probably not a sociopath then, because he felt

0:50:42.960 --> 0:50:45.320
<v Speaker 2>remorse and guilt or why else would you confess?

0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:47.560
<v Speaker 3>Right? I think he knew that was closing in on him.

0:50:48.000 --> 0:50:50.240
<v Speaker 1>How can you be How can you go and offer

0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:53.680
<v Speaker 1>your help to the police and play and be happy

0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:54.439
<v Speaker 1>and have that role?

0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:56.160
<v Speaker 3>That is what scares me.

0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the same way that the kid did

0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:02.040
<v Speaker 1>in the episode. He specific made up this guy who

0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:05.680
<v Speaker 1>he saw staring at Henry, even though that never happened.

0:51:05.800 --> 0:51:06.480
<v Speaker 3>Do you know what I mean?

0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like, I think inserting yourself in the case is

0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:11.360
<v Speaker 1>something is kind of creepy about that.

0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:13.400
<v Speaker 3>As a kid too, Like you could just be quiet

0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 3>in your room and like you do something wrong. As

0:51:15.120 --> 0:51:17.000
<v Speaker 3>a kid, I used to like turn the lights out.

0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:18.120
<v Speaker 1>And be in my room and like wait to get

0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:20.880
<v Speaker 1>in trouble, like I don't know, I feel like you

0:51:20.920 --> 0:51:23.600
<v Speaker 1>don't like go and say like poke around and try

0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:26.920
<v Speaker 1>to like make people remember you more. But the case

0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:29.920
<v Speaker 1>made national headlines obviously due to the age of the

0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:33.520
<v Speaker 1>killer and the victim. And what's crazy is Eric ms

0:51:33.719 --> 0:51:36.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean thirteen years old. There's a varying range of

0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:38.000
<v Speaker 1>what you can look like at thirteen.

0:51:38.080 --> 0:51:40.440
<v Speaker 3>This kid looked very young. When you were describing the

0:51:40.480 --> 0:51:43.160
<v Speaker 3>red headed kid from the camp in the episode, that's

0:51:43.160 --> 0:51:44.759
<v Speaker 3>what this kid looked like. He looks like the kid

0:51:44.760 --> 0:51:45.640
<v Speaker 3>from Problem Child.

0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:50.080
<v Speaker 1>He's like young, red hair, freckles, like dorky glasses like

0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:53.960
<v Speaker 1>he looks like a kid. The prosecutor said he fully

0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:56.160
<v Speaker 1>believed that Eric was a serial killer in the making

0:51:56.239 --> 0:51:57.560
<v Speaker 1>and would definitely kill again.

0:51:57.840 --> 0:52:00.279
<v Speaker 3>That's what the prosecutor thought. So at the.

0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Trial, the defense told the jury that as a toddler,

0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Smith through temper tantrums, banged his head on the floor,

0:52:05.239 --> 0:52:08.160
<v Speaker 1>had speech problems, was held back in school, and was

0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:11.480
<v Speaker 1>relentlessly bullied, and when he asked for help with his anger,

0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:15.399
<v Speaker 1>his stepfather did not really seem equipped to help him,

0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:17.399
<v Speaker 1>like he told him Oh, when I was a kid

0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:18.640
<v Speaker 1>and I got mad, I just went out to the

0:52:18.640 --> 0:52:20.880
<v Speaker 1>barn and punched a bag until I got tired of it.

0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.600
<v Speaker 1>So Eric would go punch trees and like come in

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:27.560
<v Speaker 1>with like bloody hands. It's not great parental guidance. I

0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:32.240
<v Speaker 1>feel like the defense psychiatrist, doctor Stephen Hermann, diagnosed Smith

0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:37.920
<v Speaker 1>with intermittent explosive disorder, which is basically uncontrollable rage, literally

0:52:38.000 --> 0:52:39.000
<v Speaker 1>deadly rage.

0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:40.240
<v Speaker 3>And anger is what the doctor said.

0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:43.880
<v Speaker 1>And he said, after the episodic rage, the child may

0:52:43.920 --> 0:52:47.960
<v Speaker 1>appear to be normal. So the prosecution's experts said, yeah,

0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:50.040
<v Speaker 1>that is a disorder, but it's rare and it's rarely

0:52:50.080 --> 0:52:52.640
<v Speaker 1>seen in a kid at Smith's age. So he was

0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:55.480
<v Speaker 1>really subjected to a lot of medical testing from scientists

0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:58.520
<v Speaker 1>and specialists on both sides, and they like they looked

0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:01.000
<v Speaker 1>at his brain function, his hormone life and everything, and

0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:06.520
<v Speaker 1>nothing really explained his violent behavior. And the defense psychiatrist,

0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:08.560
<v Speaker 1>doctor Hermann was like, something happened to his brain, but

0:53:08.640 --> 0:53:09.600
<v Speaker 1>we just can't measure it.

0:53:09.719 --> 0:53:12.319
<v Speaker 2>So it wasn't conclude that he was like a sociopath

0:53:12.400 --> 0:53:13.239
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that.

0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:15.520
<v Speaker 1>They just I think, again, you can't really make that

0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:18.560
<v Speaker 1>conclusion at thirteen, it's just like an episode. You can't

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:20.839
<v Speaker 1>really say that, so you can have all these other

0:53:20.920 --> 0:53:24.040
<v Speaker 1>personality disorders that you know could obviously read flag you

0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:28.120
<v Speaker 1>to be diagnosed as a sociopath. Later on, even his mother,

0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:30.160
<v Speaker 1>like everyone was trying to figure out what did this?

0:53:30.280 --> 0:53:32.879
<v Speaker 1>Like his mother Tammy, said she took an epilepsy drug

0:53:32.920 --> 0:53:37.080
<v Speaker 1>when she was pregnant, called tridone, which can cause birth defects.

0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:39.600
<v Speaker 3>Like I think she was like anything, I mean, I

0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:41.000
<v Speaker 3>took this bad drug? Is it that?

0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Like, you know, everyone's trying to figure out, like what

0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:46.640
<v Speaker 1>would cause him to be violent? The doctor, the psychiatrist Hermann,

0:53:46.680 --> 0:53:49.000
<v Speaker 1>said he wasn't suggesting that the drug would have caused

0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Eric to be violent, but he does believe that it

0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:54.120
<v Speaker 1>caused his ears to be low set and caused his

0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:58.600
<v Speaker 1>developmental delays, which profoundly affected his self esteem. He says

0:53:58.719 --> 0:54:02.480
<v Speaker 1>his pain and rage over overwhelmed him. And then the

0:54:02.520 --> 0:54:05.480
<v Speaker 1>prosecution argued that Smith knew full well that his actions

0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:07.960
<v Speaker 1>were wrong, because he admitted that he lured Derek into

0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the woods for the killing so no one would see

0:54:10.520 --> 0:54:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and I guess during the whole trial, Smith's face was

0:54:13.520 --> 0:54:17.719
<v Speaker 1>eerily blank. He had no expression, no real remorse. His

0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:20.520
<v Speaker 1>dad said in an interview, I don't ever recall him

0:54:20.560 --> 0:54:20.920
<v Speaker 1>saying you.

0:54:20.880 --> 0:54:23.840
<v Speaker 3>Was sorry he killed the boy. So they tried to

0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:26.239
<v Speaker 3>go with this kind of insanity defense for him, and

0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:27.279
<v Speaker 3>the jury rejected it.

0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:30.080
<v Speaker 1>He was tried as an adult, he was convicted, and

0:54:30.120 --> 0:54:33.480
<v Speaker 1>he was sentenced to nine years to life in prison.

0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:36.560
<v Speaker 3>So it could be any anything. So is he still

0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:38.759
<v Speaker 3>in prison. I'll tell you, okay. Sorry.

0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.440
<v Speaker 1>So he was originally in a juvenile facility until two

0:54:41.440 --> 0:54:43.239
<v Speaker 1>thousand and one when he turned twenty one, and then

0:54:43.280 --> 0:54:46.440
<v Speaker 1>he was transferred to a state prison in twenty fourteen.

0:54:46.480 --> 0:54:48.040
<v Speaker 1>At one of his parole hearings, he said he had

0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:50.440
<v Speaker 1>been bullied by older children at school and also by

0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:52.680
<v Speaker 1>his father and his older sister, so he felt bullied

0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:56.880
<v Speaker 1>all the time. I do think redheads can somehow sometimes

0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:59.400
<v Speaker 1>get a lot of bullying and it's not right. But

0:55:00.400 --> 0:55:02.560
<v Speaker 1>apparently people just said no one liked him, like he

0:55:02.600 --> 0:55:03.200
<v Speaker 1>had no friends.

0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:06.760
<v Speaker 3>People didn't like him. He told the parole board he'd.

0:55:06.600 --> 0:55:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Been so angry about being abused by his family that

0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:11.280
<v Speaker 1>he took out his frustration on four year old Derek,

0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:14.479
<v Speaker 1>and he did write a public apology at one point

0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:16.480
<v Speaker 1>that he read out loud on television that was, like,

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:16.839
<v Speaker 1>I would.

0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:18.279
<v Speaker 3>I think about Derek all the time.

0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I think about him missing his sixteenth birthday, his college graduation,

0:55:22.000 --> 0:55:22.960
<v Speaker 1>getting married.

0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:23.400
<v Speaker 3>Having a kid.

0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:25.360
<v Speaker 1>If I could switch places with him, I would, but

0:55:25.400 --> 0:55:28.200
<v Speaker 1>I can't. I'm so sorry for everything I've done, so

0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean a red statement.

0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:30.560
<v Speaker 3>Who knows.

0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but my initial instincts was like, he just said

0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:35.920
<v Speaker 2>that he missed out on those things. I don't think

0:55:35.920 --> 0:55:37.960
<v Speaker 2>he has anything to do with the okay, and I

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:40.759
<v Speaker 2>think he wishes he did that exactly.

0:55:41.640 --> 0:55:44.200
<v Speaker 1>He said in his parole hearings that he wouldn't be

0:55:44.239 --> 0:55:46.320
<v Speaker 1>a danger to society anymore and that he thinks he

0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:48.560
<v Speaker 1>would actually be an asset to society because he saw

0:55:48.640 --> 0:55:53.960
<v Speaker 1>himself becoming a forensic psychologist and researching other kids who kill.

0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:57.760
<v Speaker 1>That he's uniquely suited for this line of work because

0:55:57.800 --> 0:55:59.719
<v Speaker 1>he is he was a child who killed, and you

0:55:59.719 --> 0:56:00.239
<v Speaker 1>know whatever.

0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:02.520
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know if that's realist. Catch me if

0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:04.440
<v Speaker 3>you can, yeah, I don't know if that could ever happen.

0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:08.239
<v Speaker 1>And he most recently, in January of twenty twenty, was

0:56:08.280 --> 0:56:11.239
<v Speaker 1>denied parole for the tenth time. So he is now

0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:14.200
<v Speaker 1>forty years old. He is still in jail, and he

0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:18.440
<v Speaker 1>looks like Bill Burr. He's like bald, but like with

0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:21.520
<v Speaker 1>some of the hair on the back. And he is

0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:25.040
<v Speaker 1>up for pearl every two years, and Derek's poor family

0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:27.240
<v Speaker 1>is fighting for it to be extended to five years

0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:30.720
<v Speaker 1>because they feel like they're constantly in pearl hearings like it.

0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:32.880
<v Speaker 1>It almost feels like every eighteen months they just have

0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:35.200
<v Speaker 1>to like go back to court and like show a

0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:38.520
<v Speaker 1>home video of Derek and relive this whole trauma that

0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:42.640
<v Speaker 1>they had. So that's essentially the case. That's kind of sad.

0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Here's what I want to know. Back to the SVU.

0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:49.080
<v Speaker 3>Case really quickly. Why was their cat hair in Henry's throat? Oh?

0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I think it's has to do with that Jake killed

0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:56.640
<v Speaker 2>that cat, like the neighbor's cat, and that Henry was

0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:58.799
<v Speaker 2>going to tell on him. So maybe he just had

0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:02.359
<v Speaker 2>that cat hair on his body or like fibers of

0:57:02.400 --> 0:57:05.919
<v Speaker 2>it after killing the cat. I bet that he killed

0:57:05.960 --> 0:57:08.759
<v Speaker 2>the cat on purpose. There's no way he accidentally fell

0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:09.520
<v Speaker 2>on the cat.

0:57:09.719 --> 0:57:11.680
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, he definitely killed the cat on purpose.

0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:12.480
<v Speaker 3>It's just I didn't know.

0:57:12.400 --> 0:57:14.320
<v Speaker 1>That if you were had a cat, you were constantly

0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:16.160
<v Speaker 1>covered in cat hair and leaving it at the scene

0:57:16.200 --> 0:57:20.360
<v Speaker 1>of crimes. But I think that it's a similar story

0:57:20.400 --> 0:57:23.600
<v Speaker 1>in that, like, whereas Kyle McGlaughlin's character said, this kid

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:26.080
<v Speaker 1>is a is like a psychopath, that's also what the

0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:30.080
<v Speaker 1>prosecutor thought, and instead of killing him, they obviously have

0:57:30.160 --> 0:57:32.760
<v Speaker 1>kept him in jail his entire life. But he's now

0:57:32.800 --> 0:57:35.640
<v Speaker 1>been in jail for twenty seven years. I mean, he's

0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:38.320
<v Speaker 1>been in jail much longer than he was out of jail.

0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wonder if they'll like let him out at

0:57:40.200 --> 0:57:44.080
<v Speaker 2>eighty or something or I don't know. That's well because

0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:46.040
<v Speaker 2>now I'm thinking a part of me is like, should

0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:48.880
<v Speaker 2>we just let this guy out? But I bet you know,

0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:53.080
<v Speaker 2>sometimes jail makes you an even worse criminal. Because he's

0:57:53.120 --> 0:57:55.440
<v Speaker 2>been mostly raised in prison.

0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:57.920
<v Speaker 1>And he has like a perfect prison record, like he

0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:01.960
<v Speaker 1>has an exemplary prison I think that there's something. There

0:58:02.040 --> 0:58:05.000
<v Speaker 1>must be something about his affect and the way he

0:58:05.040 --> 0:58:08.160
<v Speaker 1>appears or something in court that makes the pro board

0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:10.680
<v Speaker 1>think that he will not be able to reacclimate to

0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:13.480
<v Speaker 1>society and be and not be a threat.

0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:16.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, not worth the risk, but it's just

0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:20.080
<v Speaker 3>really sad. Little Derek was so short lived for this

0:58:20.160 --> 0:58:21.320
<v Speaker 3>world and little Angel.

0:58:21.400 --> 0:58:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's also and you know, we've had an episode

0:58:23.240 --> 0:58:26.280
<v Speaker 2>in the past about this, but like it just sucks

0:58:26.280 --> 0:58:27.800
<v Speaker 2>when it's the first time.

0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:33.160
<v Speaker 3>You let your kid do something alone. I know, I know.

0:58:33.720 --> 0:58:35.640
<v Speaker 1>And like going to the end of the block, you know,

0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:38.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like the amount of space that he had to

0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:40.760
<v Speaker 1>get to was crazy. And such a small town, like

0:58:40.920 --> 0:58:43.960
<v Speaker 1>such a small town for that to happen in you know,

0:58:44.080 --> 0:58:45.360
<v Speaker 1>everybody knows each other.

0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:50.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, damn, thank you for that, Kara. Now I want

0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:50.960
<v Speaker 3>kool aid.

0:58:51.680 --> 0:58:56.400
<v Speaker 2>And now I'm really excited for our guest.

0:59:04.760 --> 0:59:06.000
<v Speaker 3>It is time for our guest.

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:08.840
<v Speaker 2>And I know this is usually Kara's job, but I'm

0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:09.880
<v Speaker 2>getting involved this week.

0:59:09.880 --> 0:59:12.520
<v Speaker 3>And I don't care what you guys think. I'm sure

0:59:12.520 --> 0:59:14.280
<v Speaker 3>you're fine with it. I'm sure you're fine with it.

0:59:15.320 --> 0:59:19.280
<v Speaker 1>No, guys, our guest today is mind blowing. Listen, this

0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:22.320
<v Speaker 1>is our first time having a non actor guest on

0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:22.840
<v Speaker 1>the show.

0:59:23.160 --> 0:59:25.080
<v Speaker 3>But you're going to know the name. You're going to

0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:25.800
<v Speaker 3>know this person.

0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Our guest has worked on Er Designated Survivor a million shows,

0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:35.120
<v Speaker 1>but most importantly, he was the executive producer and showrunner

0:59:35.400 --> 0:59:38.440
<v Speaker 1>of Law and Order Special Victims Unit from two thousand

0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:39.960
<v Speaker 1>to twenty eleven.

0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:44.920
<v Speaker 3>That is the Golden Years. Yeah, season two through season twelve.

0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:47.960
<v Speaker 3>So he came in with iced tea, he left with maloney.

0:59:48.720 --> 0:59:51.320
<v Speaker 2>And if you don't know what a showrunner is, they're

0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:54.960
<v Speaker 2>basically in charge of everything, like of all the writers

0:59:55.000 --> 0:59:57.320
<v Speaker 2>of the wardrobe, they're pick they're really.

0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:58.400
<v Speaker 3>Running the show.

0:59:58.520 --> 0:59:58.840
<v Speaker 6>Hello.

1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:02.280
<v Speaker 3>And then on top of all of it, he's a doctor.

1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:05.360
<v Speaker 3>He is a doctor. Yes, he is. Like he's the

1:00:05.400 --> 1:00:06.480
<v Speaker 3>smartest man alive.

1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he literally has so much information. We spoke

1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to him for one hour and we didn't want to

1:00:12.280 --> 1:00:12.640
<v Speaker 1>hang up.

1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:14.360
<v Speaker 3>We didn't want to Yeah, we could have done a

1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:15.560
<v Speaker 3>full another two hours.

1:00:16.360 --> 1:00:18.520
<v Speaker 1>But so the interview jumps around a little bit because

1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:20.280
<v Speaker 1>he just has so much information and we kind of

1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:21.600
<v Speaker 1>picked the stuff that we thought you guys would be

1:00:21.600 --> 1:00:23.640
<v Speaker 1>the most interested in. We do have a couple more

1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:27.440
<v Speaker 1>tidbits that are going to be audiograms over at our instagram,

1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:30.440
<v Speaker 1>So go over to our instagram and follow us at

1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:31.200
<v Speaker 1>That's Messed Up.

1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Pod for more of those. But in the meantime, please

1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:38.040
<v Speaker 3>enjoy our interview with the one and only Neil Bhar.

1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:40.280
<v Speaker 3>I am really nervous.

1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:41.919
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you're going to be like you guys

1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:43.960
<v Speaker 2>were wrong about everything.

1:00:44.920 --> 1:00:49.720
<v Speaker 3>You girls, So I'm assuming because you're a pediatrician. My

1:00:49.720 --> 1:00:51.880
<v Speaker 3>mom's a pediatrician. Also, wonderful profession.

1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Were you practicing for a while and then you just

1:00:54.400 --> 1:00:56.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of became like a consultant on er or something?

1:00:57.080 --> 1:00:59.200
<v Speaker 3>Or how did that progression work to get into it?

1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:00.560
<v Speaker 3>From medicine to ten television?

1:01:01.040 --> 1:01:05.280
<v Speaker 4>I was a TV writer on China Beach and then

1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:06.400
<v Speaker 4>I went to medical school.

1:01:06.480 --> 1:01:07.520
<v Speaker 6>John Wells hired me.

1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:11.320
<v Speaker 4>We grew up together in Denver, Colorado, So people say,

1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:13.160
<v Speaker 4>how do you get into the business.

1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:13.920
<v Speaker 6>Do you write a speck?

1:01:14.040 --> 1:01:16.600
<v Speaker 4>I said, now, you grow up and go to Holly

1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:19.640
<v Speaker 4>Hills Elementary School with John Wells, and we lived six

1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:22.040
<v Speaker 4>blocks from each other, so I ran into him literally

1:01:22.080 --> 1:01:25.760
<v Speaker 4>with the grocery cart in la He was the producer

1:01:25.800 --> 1:01:28.240
<v Speaker 4>of China Beach. He brought me on and then I

1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:30.280
<v Speaker 4>left to go to medical school. A couple of years

1:01:30.320 --> 1:01:32.840
<v Speaker 4>after that, thinking I don't know if I have a

1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:35.880
<v Speaker 4>career here. My son was born, and in my fourth

1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:38.480
<v Speaker 4>year of medical school, John sent me the script Michael

1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:42.400
<v Speaker 4>Crichton wrote for Er and it had been written twenty

1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:45.400
<v Speaker 4>five years before, and lay dormant for all that time

1:01:45.400 --> 1:01:46.080
<v Speaker 4>in Spielberg.

1:01:46.240 --> 1:01:48.720
<v Speaker 6>Somebody in Spielberg's office found at Spielberg owned it.

1:01:49.320 --> 1:01:52.800
<v Speaker 4>And Spielberg had made you know, Saving Private Ryan e

1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:56.160
<v Speaker 4>thinking Jindler's list around that time, and Crichton had done

1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:57.200
<v Speaker 4>Jurassic Parks.

1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:59.640
<v Speaker 6>So NBC did not like the pilot.

1:02:00.240 --> 1:02:03.320
<v Speaker 4>They thought there were too many stories, but given the pedigree,

1:02:03.840 --> 1:02:06.960
<v Speaker 4>they did it. And John sent me the script and

1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:10.000
<v Speaker 4>I gave him notes on what had changed over the

1:02:10.040 --> 1:02:14.520
<v Speaker 4>twenty five years, and he invited me to come and share.

1:02:14.280 --> 1:02:16.520
<v Speaker 6>My life, just to spill.

1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:19.400
<v Speaker 4>It for the writers, and I went on as a

1:02:19.440 --> 1:02:23.280
<v Speaker 4>staff writer. So I'm the first Lance genteel, another doctor,

1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:25.960
<v Speaker 4>and I are the first doctor writers in television.

1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:29.400
<v Speaker 6>And now every medical TV series has a doctor writer.

1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:33.960
<v Speaker 4>We established that in the past from Saint Elsewhere and

1:02:34.120 --> 1:02:37.120
<v Speaker 4>before with Medical Center and Marcus Welby and all those shows.

1:02:37.280 --> 1:02:40.240
<v Speaker 4>They had consultants who'd sprinkle the medicine on top. This

1:02:40.320 --> 1:02:42.920
<v Speaker 4>was the medicine from the bottom up. So I was

1:02:42.960 --> 1:02:45.200
<v Speaker 4>still in medical school when Er started, so I was

1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:49.640
<v Speaker 4>like Noah Wiley's character John Carter, and whatever happened to

1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:52.920
<v Speaker 4>him pretty much happened to me or my friends and

1:02:52.960 --> 1:02:56.920
<v Speaker 4>then as he progressed, I progressed. So I finished medical

1:02:56.960 --> 1:03:00.800
<v Speaker 4>school during different sort of time periods when we were

1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:04.520
<v Speaker 4>on break or on vacation, I'd go back to Boston,

1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:08.240
<v Speaker 4>and then I did the residency over like seven years

1:03:08.720 --> 1:03:10.200
<v Speaker 4>at Children's Hospital, LA.

1:03:10.600 --> 1:03:13.360
<v Speaker 6>So when SVU started, I was still in the midst.

1:03:13.080 --> 1:03:15.600
<v Speaker 4>Of that, and I'd be hiding in the linen closet

1:03:15.680 --> 1:03:19.400
<v Speaker 4>giving notes on SVU because I would work like some

1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:22.800
<v Speaker 4>shifts in the early morning and the nurse would open

1:03:22.840 --> 1:03:24.240
<v Speaker 4>the door and she'd say, Oh, he's doing.

1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:24.720
<v Speaker 6>His other job.

1:03:25.240 --> 1:03:25.560
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

1:03:25.800 --> 1:03:27.920
<v Speaker 6>I was like two years into SVU.

1:03:28.480 --> 1:03:32.200
<v Speaker 4>I was still doing stuff to get my license, and

1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:34.960
<v Speaker 4>so I never practiced per se. But I do a

1:03:34.960 --> 1:03:37.400
<v Speaker 4>lot of work in public health, like I teach at

1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:40.840
<v Speaker 4>Harvard Medical School, I have an appointment and also at

1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:42.600
<v Speaker 4>Yale School of Public Health.

1:03:42.720 --> 1:03:45.400
<v Speaker 6>So I doing that kind of work still.

1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:49.880
<v Speaker 4>And how to tell stories about health that can have

1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:51.280
<v Speaker 4>an impact, to make a difference.

1:03:51.640 --> 1:03:52.560
<v Speaker 3>That's amazing.

1:03:53.240 --> 1:03:55.840
<v Speaker 1>So you were reading the news looking for impactful stories

1:03:55.880 --> 1:03:58.320
<v Speaker 1>and then immediately writing episodes based on what you read.

1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:01.880
<v Speaker 4>I used to say that the mothership law and Order

1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:03.880
<v Speaker 4>would rip from the headlines. That was kind of the

1:04:04.480 --> 1:04:08.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, known kind of mantra like rip from the headlines,

1:04:08.920 --> 1:04:11.080
<v Speaker 4>And I would say that as for you, the headlines

1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:14.919
<v Speaker 4>were ripped from us because we would do stories that

1:04:15.400 --> 1:04:17.959
<v Speaker 4>were in the zeitgeist, and we talked to a lot

1:04:18.000 --> 1:04:22.320
<v Speaker 4>of experts and so things like, for instance, I had

1:04:22.360 --> 1:04:27.080
<v Speaker 4>Marishka do an episode where she lies and she swabs

1:04:27.120 --> 1:04:30.000
<v Speaker 4>her mouth and sends it through to see if there's

1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:33.920
<v Speaker 4>a match that her rapist father might be in the system,

1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:38.760
<v Speaker 4>and that's how she meets her half brother Michael Weston's

1:04:38.880 --> 1:04:41.000
<v Speaker 4>character Ymon Simon.

1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:42.600
<v Speaker 6>And that was because I.

1:04:42.480 --> 1:04:46.240
<v Speaker 4>Had read some article in a journal that you know,

1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:48.520
<v Speaker 4>you could take DNA and what if you didn't do

1:04:48.560 --> 1:04:51.080
<v Speaker 4>a ninety nine percent match that everybody just kind of

1:04:51.960 --> 1:04:54.320
<v Speaker 4>in a pro former way says, what if you said

1:04:54.320 --> 1:04:57.800
<v Speaker 4>it at fifty percent, what would that mean? Is this

1:04:58.640 --> 1:05:03.480
<v Speaker 4>violating privacy rights? So we did it long before the

1:05:04.080 --> 1:05:06.840
<v Speaker 4>grim sleeper was caught in Los Angeles, you know, I

1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:11.560
<v Speaker 4>think they caught his son and then they did fifty

1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:16.160
<v Speaker 4>DNA match and they found that this young guy they

1:05:16.160 --> 1:05:20.640
<v Speaker 4>picked up for some minor charge was related either by

1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:25.840
<v Speaker 4>being a brother an uncle, father. So then they mapped

1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:29.960
<v Speaker 4>and looked at the people, you know who he would

1:05:30.040 --> 1:05:34.560
<v Speaker 4>possibly match. And they found that his father lived near Boton,

1:05:34.680 --> 1:05:36.360
<v Speaker 4>in that area where.

1:05:36.920 --> 1:05:38.320
<v Speaker 6>The women all had been murdered.

1:05:38.680 --> 1:05:41.360
<v Speaker 4>So I think they went to his trash and picked

1:05:41.360 --> 1:05:42.880
<v Speaker 4>out something and that's legal.

1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:45.320
<v Speaker 6>We did that a lot of times on SVU, and

1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:46.160
<v Speaker 6>that's how they got him.

1:05:46.160 --> 1:05:48.280
<v Speaker 4>And they've gotten a number of people using kind of

1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:52.080
<v Speaker 4>the twenty three and me approach where it's not the

1:05:52.640 --> 1:05:56.440
<v Speaker 4>person who's DNA they have, but it's a close relative.

1:05:56.560 --> 1:05:59.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the Golden State killer they just they just found.

1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:01.200
<v Speaker 4>So we did that, as far as I know, way

1:06:01.280 --> 1:06:03.840
<v Speaker 4>before anybody else did that. So I was always looking

1:06:03.920 --> 1:06:08.240
<v Speaker 4>at the you know, the technology in service of the story,

1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:10.040
<v Speaker 4>always so that.

1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:13.240
<v Speaker 6>We could do things that kept us you.

1:06:13.200 --> 1:06:16.320
<v Speaker 4>Know, I wanted to do a story about Benson wants

1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:18.600
<v Speaker 4>to find out who her father was, you know, so

1:06:18.960 --> 1:06:22.160
<v Speaker 4>that seemed like an interesting way to bring in the technology,

1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:24.480
<v Speaker 4>but it still was about her character.

1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:28.120
<v Speaker 1>And you having a medical background is probably really helpful

1:06:28.120 --> 1:06:30.560
<v Speaker 1>there that you're reading these journals, because I'm sure regular

1:06:30.600 --> 1:06:33.600
<v Speaker 1>TV writers are not popping open the Annals of Pediatrics.

1:06:33.680 --> 1:06:36.600
<v Speaker 6>And you know, absolutely I read in Neurology a case.

1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:39.560
<v Speaker 4>This was an episode you undoubtedly will remember since you

1:06:39.600 --> 1:06:44.200
<v Speaker 4>know every episode there was a case of a man

1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:48.600
<v Speaker 4>who had a proclivity for pornography, but you know, he

1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:51.800
<v Speaker 4>had a fairly normal life and then suddenly he was

1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:56.440
<v Speaker 4>drawn to child pornography and he was arrested and it

1:06:56.480 --> 1:06:58.600
<v Speaker 4>turned out that he had terrible headaches and he had

1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:02.160
<v Speaker 4>a seizure and he had a brain tumor. They removed

1:07:02.160 --> 1:07:05.120
<v Speaker 4>the brain tumor and he lost these feelings.

1:07:05.280 --> 1:07:07.480
<v Speaker 3>This is that episode ahead exactly.

1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:09.400
<v Speaker 4>And then the feelings came back, and guess what, he

1:07:09.480 --> 1:07:13.760
<v Speaker 4>had the tumor again. So that raises questions about are

1:07:13.760 --> 1:07:15.280
<v Speaker 4>we going to get to a point where we can

1:07:15.320 --> 1:07:19.680
<v Speaker 4>screen people and take away their rights? And so that's

1:07:19.720 --> 1:07:22.600
<v Speaker 4>how I think SVU. You know, some of the secrets

1:07:22.600 --> 1:07:24.080
<v Speaker 4>of SVU were this deep research.

1:07:24.160 --> 1:07:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a few of our listeners have like written in

1:07:26.720 --> 1:07:28.920
<v Speaker 1>asking us to do certain episodes, And when I look

1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:30.840
<v Speaker 1>up the dates, I'm like, the show cover that before

1:07:30.840 --> 1:07:34.040
<v Speaker 1>the crime happened. Actually, like I hate to tell you.

1:07:34.160 --> 1:07:36.480
<v Speaker 4>Well, you know it's really weird is that I don't

1:07:36.520 --> 1:07:40.320
<v Speaker 4>know if you're aware that I oversaw a mini series

1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:43.400
<v Speaker 4>called Terror and I was in the World Trade Center

1:07:43.800 --> 1:07:47.600
<v Speaker 4>the Thursday before the before.

1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:50.880
<v Speaker 6>Nine to eleven, and we had a five hour.

1:07:51.200 --> 1:07:56.720
<v Speaker 4>Crossover series on terrorists with SVU Law and Order and

1:07:56.880 --> 1:08:00.840
<v Speaker 4>Criminal Intent. So we used everybody and we at anthrax.

1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.080
<v Speaker 4>In fact, we were called to ask us how did

1:08:04.120 --> 1:08:06.320
<v Speaker 4>we know about this? And it's like, we did this research,

1:08:06.600 --> 1:08:08.680
<v Speaker 4>like we knew the University of Minnesota was the place

1:08:08.720 --> 1:08:11.080
<v Speaker 4>you wanted to go to learn about aerosolization.

1:08:11.800 --> 1:08:14.320
<v Speaker 6>And so what was bizarre was I think if you

1:08:14.400 --> 1:08:15.000
<v Speaker 6>look at.

1:08:15.520 --> 1:08:17.960
<v Speaker 4>Variety on the morning of nine to eleven, I think

1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:20.160
<v Speaker 4>it says terror or something and it talks about our

1:08:20.200 --> 1:08:23.680
<v Speaker 4>mini series, you know, because we were so close to it.

1:08:23.760 --> 1:08:26.439
<v Speaker 4>We had already cast it, and so it never went

1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:28.840
<v Speaker 4>Remember Jeff Zucker called me that night.

1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:29.880
<v Speaker 6>I was in New York.

1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:32.519
<v Speaker 4>I saw horrible, you know, I was at Chelsea Piers

1:08:32.560 --> 1:08:34.280
<v Speaker 4>and saw the towers come down, and.

1:08:34.280 --> 1:08:35.720
<v Speaker 6>Jeff wondered if we could do it.

1:08:35.760 --> 1:08:39.280
<v Speaker 4>Still It's like, no, there's no right, but we But

1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:43.680
<v Speaker 4>it's weird. Go back and look at Variety September eleventh,

1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:44.360
<v Speaker 4>It's weird.

1:08:44.479 --> 1:08:46.960
<v Speaker 6>Wow, because we were going to do this. We did

1:08:47.000 --> 1:08:48.240
<v Speaker 6>a lot of research.

1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:51.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And that's so it's like, you know, we're not

1:08:51.560 --> 1:08:54.559
<v Speaker 4>really like it's like when I did Designated Survivor recently,

1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:57.840
<v Speaker 4>we did a show about voter suppression and white supremacy

1:08:57.960 --> 1:09:00.920
<v Speaker 4>was the whole season. Well, that was in we wrote

1:09:00.920 --> 1:09:06.360
<v Speaker 4>it in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. It's not because we

1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:10.040
<v Speaker 4>were prescient. It's because we really talked to experts and

1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:12.040
<v Speaker 4>we wanted to know, like, what are you worried about?

1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:15.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is the next big problem coming down the pipeline.

1:09:15.479 --> 1:09:18.000
<v Speaker 4>And that's what we did with SVU, so we would

1:09:18.040 --> 1:09:21.360
<v Speaker 4>look at like like we did this episode. It was

1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:26.840
<v Speaker 4>a really profound episode with Rosie Perez and Eric Dillahunt,

1:09:27.720 --> 1:09:30.360
<v Speaker 4>and that was about a guy saying, I did it.

1:09:31.120 --> 1:09:34.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm a pedophile and I was born that way. And

1:09:34.360 --> 1:09:37.639
<v Speaker 4>that was really controversial because it's like, these are bad people,

1:09:37.640 --> 1:09:42.360
<v Speaker 4>and it's like what are psychiatrists and forensic psychiatrists saying,

1:09:42.360 --> 1:09:45.480
<v Speaker 4>And it's like, how do we help them to suppress

1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:51.480
<v Speaker 4>these urges? But this is kind of a sexual orientation,

1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:54.200
<v Speaker 4>so to speak, which is why it's like when you're

1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:59.439
<v Speaker 4>quite homosexuality and pedophilia like Scalia did, that's like really

1:09:59.520 --> 1:10:04.120
<v Speaker 4>ridiculus us because these are different kinds of orientations and

1:10:04.200 --> 1:10:07.160
<v Speaker 4>we really tried to do that on the show and

1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:10.760
<v Speaker 4>with Bed's character as well. I love you know, in

1:10:10.800 --> 1:10:14.479
<v Speaker 4>the show Conscience. I love when b D says you

1:10:14.520 --> 1:10:17.759
<v Speaker 4>can't teach a conscience or you can't learn.

1:10:17.680 --> 1:10:20.520
<v Speaker 3>I think you can't grow a conscience, grow a conscience.

1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell us a little bit more about conscience specifically,

1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:25.920
<v Speaker 1>like that episode, like how it.

1:10:25.840 --> 1:10:26.960
<v Speaker 3>Came to be?

1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:30.559
<v Speaker 1>Or I mean, I know you've literally overseen like so

1:10:30.680 --> 1:10:31.840
<v Speaker 1>many episodes, so I'm.

1:10:31.720 --> 1:10:32.640
<v Speaker 3>Sure I don't know.

1:10:33.000 --> 1:10:33.439
<v Speaker 6>Maybe one.

1:10:33.560 --> 1:10:36.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it seems like you have a real memory for details.

1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:37.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm not afraid to ask you.

1:10:38.120 --> 1:10:39.240
<v Speaker 6>And you can ask me anytime.

1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:42.080
<v Speaker 4>So yes, I was reading an article in the New

1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:47.360
<v Speaker 4>York Times in two thousand and four about sociopathy and children.

1:10:47.360 --> 1:10:48.519
<v Speaker 6>And could they be treated?

1:10:48.920 --> 1:10:52.160
<v Speaker 4>And so there have been a number of articles since

1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:54.080
<v Speaker 4>about children without a conscience?

1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:56.280
<v Speaker 6>Are they treatable? What do we do? You know?

1:10:56.360 --> 1:10:59.960
<v Speaker 4>These are kids who like set fires, kill pets, right,

1:11:00.120 --> 1:11:03.280
<v Speaker 4>And so I thought, well, we'll create a character who's

1:11:03.280 --> 1:11:07.559
<v Speaker 4>a psychiatrist who really knows about this, will have something

1:11:07.600 --> 1:11:10.360
<v Speaker 4>happened to his own kid. And then because of all

1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:14.479
<v Speaker 4>the research he's done, he knows this kid will kill again.

1:11:14.720 --> 1:11:19.080
<v Speaker 4>He knows this kid as a psychopath, psychopaths, sociopath, same thing,

1:11:19.400 --> 1:11:21.960
<v Speaker 4>kind of like the former president, so.

1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:24.240
<v Speaker 6>You know they'll do anything.

1:11:24.600 --> 1:11:28.320
<v Speaker 4>I liken it to a hall of mirrors, like in

1:11:28.360 --> 1:11:32.320
<v Speaker 4>the movie The Lady from Shanghai, and in that scene

1:11:32.360 --> 1:11:35.000
<v Speaker 4>where Orson Wells goes in and Rita Hayworth follows him,

1:11:35.280 --> 1:11:39.360
<v Speaker 4>he sees hundreds and hundreds of images of himself. That's

1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:41.080
<v Speaker 4>how what I think, because how do we get into

1:11:41.479 --> 1:11:42.880
<v Speaker 4>it was always a question of how do we get

1:11:42.880 --> 1:11:45.560
<v Speaker 4>into people's heads when they're doing these terrible things. And

1:11:45.600 --> 1:11:48.320
<v Speaker 4>I try to think sort of metaphorically, and I sort

1:11:48.360 --> 1:11:51.800
<v Speaker 4>of see that character, or I see Trump, or somebody

1:11:51.800 --> 1:11:55.519
<v Speaker 4>who has sociopathy has just seeing hundreds of images of

1:11:55.600 --> 1:11:59.240
<v Speaker 4>himself and that's how they see the world. And so

1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:01.519
<v Speaker 4>if if you have a kid who has done some

1:12:01.640 --> 1:12:05.760
<v Speaker 4>bad things, then how do you deal with this? And

1:12:05.880 --> 1:12:09.679
<v Speaker 4>of course col McLaughlin's character does something that's really dire,

1:12:10.200 --> 1:12:10.639
<v Speaker 4>but we.

1:12:10.479 --> 1:12:13.000
<v Speaker 6>Were trying to make that point, like how do you

1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:15.160
<v Speaker 6>deal with this? How do you think about it? So

1:12:15.439 --> 1:12:17.000
<v Speaker 6>it was no.

1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:20.040
<v Speaker 4>I was just very fortunate because we would just write

1:12:20.520 --> 1:12:24.360
<v Speaker 4>in depth, so with conscience. It was really the springboard

1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:27.080
<v Speaker 4>was something I read and I just thought, this.

1:12:27.040 --> 1:12:29.919
<v Speaker 6>Is really interesting. How do we dig into this story?

1:12:30.280 --> 1:12:31.559
<v Speaker 6>When if it's true.

1:12:32.040 --> 1:12:35.599
<v Speaker 4>Now there's more research thing maybe these people are treatable,

1:12:36.080 --> 1:12:41.400
<v Speaker 4>but not all sociopaths kill, but they do things that

1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:43.960
<v Speaker 4>are bad and that are harmful. So how do we

1:12:44.000 --> 1:12:44.599
<v Speaker 4>address that?

1:12:45.200 --> 1:12:46.680
<v Speaker 3>Moving away from psychopaths?

1:12:46.720 --> 1:12:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Who are the people that you really wanted to have

1:12:48.680 --> 1:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>on the show and then you got them?

1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:55.000
<v Speaker 4>I would go to people I loved, like Lois Smith,

1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:58.639
<v Speaker 4>who's like ninety and on Broadway and Inheritance, she played

1:12:58.640 --> 1:13:01.519
<v Speaker 4>the mother of a woman with Down syndrome who's pregnant

1:13:01.560 --> 1:13:02.639
<v Speaker 4>and not really quite sure.

1:13:02.840 --> 1:13:04.000
<v Speaker 6>I love that episode.

1:13:04.080 --> 1:13:05.000
<v Speaker 3>I love that episode.

1:13:05.240 --> 1:13:07.200
<v Speaker 4>And then I wanted to work with Piper Laurie, who

1:13:07.280 --> 1:13:08.960
<v Speaker 4>was in the movie The Hustler.

1:13:08.760 --> 1:13:11.200
<v Speaker 3>And Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks.

1:13:11.000 --> 1:13:15.439
<v Speaker 4>And Children of a Lesser God and Carrie she was amazing,

1:13:15.520 --> 1:13:20.479
<v Speaker 4>and Carol Burnette and Anne Margaret and Ellen Burston and

1:13:20.560 --> 1:13:24.439
<v Speaker 4>Jeremy Irons and Jerry Lewis and Jacquin Bassett.

1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:29.720
<v Speaker 2>So do you write the episodes with these people in

1:13:29.800 --> 1:13:31.240
<v Speaker 2>mind and then go after them?

1:13:31.439 --> 1:13:33.760
<v Speaker 6>So sometimes I would call them first.

1:13:33.800 --> 1:13:35.719
<v Speaker 4>So I would talk to Carol Burnett and I'd say,

1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:37.640
<v Speaker 4>you know, I'd love you to do the show, and

1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:39.880
<v Speaker 4>she goes, well, I bet you know. I said, I've

1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:41.599
<v Speaker 4>been a fan. She said, like, what when you were

1:13:41.640 --> 1:13:43.040
<v Speaker 4>a kid and watch my show.

1:13:42.800 --> 1:13:43.320
<v Speaker 6>With your mother?

1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:48.599
<v Speaker 4>Yes, she said, well what's the part? And I said,

1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:51.240
<v Speaker 4>you'd kill all these men? She's like, I do, And

1:13:51.280 --> 1:13:53.800
<v Speaker 4>I said, they're really bad and you get away with it.

1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:56.000
<v Speaker 4>And she's like, oh, I like that.

1:13:57.439 --> 1:13:59.559
<v Speaker 3>What are the episodes that really haunt you?

1:13:59.600 --> 1:13:59.680
<v Speaker 4>Like?

1:13:59.720 --> 1:14:02.800
<v Speaker 2>We have some that stick with us and really haunt

1:14:02.880 --> 1:14:05.720
<v Speaker 2>us forever, and I would love to know those that

1:14:05.800 --> 1:14:06.280
<v Speaker 2>do that to you.

1:14:06.640 --> 1:14:09.760
<v Speaker 4>One of my favorites, because I think it actually had

1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:13.600
<v Speaker 4>an impact, is the one with Becky Ann Baker and

1:14:13.640 --> 1:14:16.280
<v Speaker 4>it's still and Baker's wife, and she's an amazing actor.

1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:19.600
<v Speaker 6>She plays the mother of a kid who's fourteen.

1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:21.160
<v Speaker 4>And just doesn't really have any friends and he just

1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:25.440
<v Speaker 4>wants to be liked, and so he befriends this psychopathic

1:14:25.880 --> 1:14:28.719
<v Speaker 4>twelve year old who tells him go get that knife,

1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:32.920
<v Speaker 4>and he does, and the twelve year old murders the woman.

1:14:33.560 --> 1:14:36.960
<v Speaker 4>The twelve year old is sent to juvie because he's twelve,

1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:39.479
<v Speaker 4>and the fourteen year old is tried as an adult

1:14:39.760 --> 1:14:43.040
<v Speaker 4>and gets life in prison before the Supreme Court ruled

1:14:43.120 --> 1:14:46.479
<v Speaker 4>you can't do that anymore, and he's an accessory. So

1:14:46.880 --> 1:14:51.200
<v Speaker 4>it's just a terrible, terrible tragedy. There were people who

1:14:51.240 --> 1:14:53.799
<v Speaker 4>did things like that who were in prison for life.

1:14:54.000 --> 1:14:55.880
<v Speaker 6>Some girl gave her boyfriend a.

1:14:55.840 --> 1:14:59.000
<v Speaker 4>Gun and later weeks later, whatever it was, he shot

1:14:59.040 --> 1:15:00.639
<v Speaker 4>somebody and she's isn't for life.

1:15:00.800 --> 1:15:04.040
<v Speaker 1>No, the Trump administration just executed a man who did

1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:05.960
<v Speaker 1>not have a hand in the actual murder.

1:15:06.000 --> 1:15:07.760
<v Speaker 3>He was just an accomplice.

1:15:08.160 --> 1:15:11.920
<v Speaker 4>And so you can't do that anymore with people under eighteen,

1:15:12.760 --> 1:15:15.439
<v Speaker 4>and they're still trying, I believe to grandfather people.

1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:18.200
<v Speaker 6>And so that haunted me because that kid was like

1:15:18.280 --> 1:15:19.880
<v Speaker 6>I just wanted to, Oh my gosh.

1:15:19.880 --> 1:15:21.960
<v Speaker 4>On the stand too, it's like I just wanted to

1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:27.320
<v Speaker 4>and the mother's like, oh my god, like how fair

1:15:27.439 --> 1:15:29.720
<v Speaker 4>is this? So I remember like sending it to the

1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:33.800
<v Speaker 4>people who are arguing in this case because it's about juveniles,

1:15:33.840 --> 1:15:37.440
<v Speaker 4>and so that I love that episode. I love the episode.

1:15:37.520 --> 1:15:40.559
<v Speaker 4>Love the episode that is haunting. That was your question.

1:15:40.680 --> 1:15:43.839
<v Speaker 4>Is the Lou Diamond Phillips episode. Oh yeah, that's pushing

1:15:44.160 --> 1:15:48.000
<v Speaker 4>Rishka and Chris's relationship to the degree will you die

1:15:48.080 --> 1:15:48.679
<v Speaker 4>for each other?

1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:49.000
<v Speaker 3>Right?

1:15:49.439 --> 1:15:55.200
<v Speaker 4>And so here's Benson slashed by Lou Diamond Phillips horrible character,

1:15:55.720 --> 1:15:58.920
<v Speaker 4>and Stable has to make a split second decision. Does

1:15:58.920 --> 1:16:01.840
<v Speaker 4>he chase after this guy why because no telling what

1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:05.479
<v Speaker 4>he'll do next, or does he save Benson? And so

1:16:05.520 --> 1:16:09.120
<v Speaker 4>he saves Benson and the guy kills a kid, and

1:16:09.160 --> 1:16:13.559
<v Speaker 4>it's just like, but that's life. Always was looking for

1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:18.200
<v Speaker 4>ways to plumb the depth of Benson and Stabler and Finn.

1:16:18.280 --> 1:16:21.760
<v Speaker 4>So I gave Finn a queer son because I thought

1:16:21.800 --> 1:16:22.439
<v Speaker 4>that'll be good.

1:16:22.680 --> 1:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>I love how much you love the episodes with the

1:16:25.720 --> 1:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>main characters and their emotional growth and stuff. It shows

1:16:29.360 --> 1:16:31.640
<v Speaker 2>how much you really love them, and I like that.

1:16:32.120 --> 1:16:34.400
<v Speaker 1>And it shows because we always talk about Finn, like

1:16:34.400 --> 1:16:37.160
<v Speaker 1>when you watch some of the older episodes, Finn's attitudes

1:16:37.200 --> 1:16:40.439
<v Speaker 1>are a little bit old school and like he really grows.

1:16:40.520 --> 1:16:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I think giving him a queer son was like a

1:16:42.240 --> 1:16:44.519
<v Speaker 1>great character developer for him.

1:16:44.600 --> 1:16:50.680
<v Speaker 6>And first of all, Coco's always there. We heard so

1:16:50.720 --> 1:16:53.680
<v Speaker 6>I wrote stuff for Coco too. Coco's in two episodes.

1:16:53.720 --> 1:16:57.320
<v Speaker 4>Coco is They're like the most normal, normal people in

1:16:57.320 --> 1:17:00.719
<v Speaker 4>the world. We are like, It's like, I just love

1:17:00.840 --> 1:17:05.120
<v Speaker 4>the whole sort of iced tea cocoa sort of vision. Yeah,

1:17:05.520 --> 1:17:09.400
<v Speaker 4>but iced tea here's the great thing, Iced Tea. You know,

1:17:09.840 --> 1:17:11.760
<v Speaker 4>most people don't want to work Friday nights, and as

1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:14.400
<v Speaker 4>you progress during the week, you start later and you

1:17:14.520 --> 1:17:14.920
<v Speaker 4>end later.

1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:16.680
<v Speaker 6>So Friday's you could end at like two three in

1:17:16.720 --> 1:17:17.160
<v Speaker 6>the morning.

1:17:17.840 --> 1:17:20.240
<v Speaker 4>Always couldn't count on Iced Tea to say, hey, yeah,

1:17:20.280 --> 1:17:22.240
<v Speaker 4>I'll just come in. So we would say, of Iced

1:17:22.280 --> 1:17:27.160
<v Speaker 4>tease scenes for Friday nights. But I did a scene

1:17:27.240 --> 1:17:28.840
<v Speaker 4>with him. I just said, you know, we're going to

1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:32.519
<v Speaker 4>give you something that's really super intense, and we're going

1:17:32.600 --> 1:17:35.439
<v Speaker 4>to cast an actor who you've never seen do this.

1:17:36.040 --> 1:17:40.320
<v Speaker 4>So that was Julie Haggerty playing the social worker who

1:17:40.520 --> 1:17:43.080
<v Speaker 4>missed right and commits suicide.

1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:46.479
<v Speaker 6>And we're like, so it's also unexpected because you think of.

1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:50.120
<v Speaker 4>Julie Haggerty an airplane and all these things, like Julie

1:17:50.120 --> 1:17:53.040
<v Speaker 4>Haggerty is an amazing actor and she was so funny.

1:17:53.280 --> 1:17:56.639
<v Speaker 4>But I thought, you know, I bet you that you'll

1:17:56.680 --> 1:17:59.799
<v Speaker 4>just be like gut punched if we do the opposite

1:17:59.800 --> 1:18:02.880
<v Speaker 4>with her. And I said, who would be the most

1:18:02.960 --> 1:18:06.559
<v Speaker 4>interesting character to have this happen to? And I said,

1:18:07.200 --> 1:18:10.120
<v Speaker 4>let's do it to Finn, who's so tough and have

1:18:10.520 --> 1:18:12.800
<v Speaker 4>this terrifying scene.

1:18:13.439 --> 1:18:15.439
<v Speaker 6>Was like, wow, this is like.

1:18:15.479 --> 1:18:19.280
<v Speaker 4>This is deep ye, or like when Maloney said to

1:18:19.320 --> 1:18:22.320
<v Speaker 4>me when he acted opposite, he's about you pair, it's

1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:24.200
<v Speaker 4>you don't even hear it. When he tells her that

1:18:24.240 --> 1:18:26.880
<v Speaker 4>her child is dead, he said, Neil, I thought this

1:18:27.040 --> 1:18:29.400
<v Speaker 4>was real. I thought I was going down.

1:18:29.160 --> 1:18:30.240
<v Speaker 3>With her, he said.

1:18:30.280 --> 1:18:33.120
<v Speaker 6>I thought the world was ending. He said, I've never

1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:33.840
<v Speaker 6>been in a.

1:18:33.760 --> 1:18:37.200
<v Speaker 4>Scene like this where I really thought she was psychotic

1:18:37.920 --> 1:18:40.200
<v Speaker 4>and it was like there's no acting here, he said.

1:18:40.200 --> 1:18:42.920
<v Speaker 6>It was like, get me out of this room. I'm

1:18:42.960 --> 1:18:43.760
<v Speaker 6>like freaking out.

1:18:43.840 --> 1:18:46.519
<v Speaker 4>So, you know, I think that the actors are so

1:18:46.640 --> 1:18:51.559
<v Speaker 4>intensely good that we had so many Oscar winners, Emmy winners,

1:18:51.920 --> 1:18:54.960
<v Speaker 4>you know. Robin Williams, I love that episode. I wrote

1:18:54.960 --> 1:18:57.759
<v Speaker 4>that it's the two hundredth episode, and it was based

1:18:57.800 --> 1:19:00.439
<v Speaker 4>on a story I read about it about this cookie

1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:03.360
<v Speaker 4>guy in Kentucky who was like calling.

1:19:03.680 --> 1:19:06.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think he called a McDonald's or something.

1:19:06.280 --> 1:19:08.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and it's like, hey, you know, go lock up

1:19:08.840 --> 1:19:11.320
<v Speaker 6>that cute girl. It's like a strip searcher.

1:19:11.640 --> 1:19:14.960
<v Speaker 4>So then I was like, well, that's weird, but I

1:19:14.960 --> 1:19:17.200
<v Speaker 4>think let's go deeper and let's have him have a

1:19:17.240 --> 1:19:20.320
<v Speaker 4>real reason that he's so angry at everybody.

1:19:19.920 --> 1:19:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Right, And that's I think that's like, what's so we

1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:26.400
<v Speaker 1>are both comedians, and so when we see comedians playing

1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:28.920
<v Speaker 1>these roles, it's it's I think that extra It's like

1:19:28.960 --> 1:19:30.920
<v Speaker 1>you said, it's an extra gut punch to have, like

1:19:31.439 --> 1:19:35.919
<v Speaker 1>Danny Tanner or Will Truman or like guys or actors

1:19:35.920 --> 1:19:38.799
<v Speaker 1>that you're just like Martin story. Yeah, Oh my gosh,

1:19:38.840 --> 1:19:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Martin Short, like the first dramatic role.

1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:42.240
<v Speaker 3>We're dying to get him.

1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:46.519
<v Speaker 4>Neil such a sweet man, and it's like, well that

1:19:46.680 --> 1:19:50.040
<v Speaker 4>was again, it's like, oh my gosh, I love you know, Jiminy, you.

1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:52.360
<v Speaker 3>Know, click yeah, and.

1:19:52.160 --> 1:19:55.800
<v Speaker 6>I love him so much that we got to do something.

1:19:55.840 --> 1:19:58.800
<v Speaker 4>And Don de Noon wrote that episode about the Fox

1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:01.280
<v Speaker 4>psychic and it's kind of like a little bit of

1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:05.880
<v Speaker 4>family plot and a little bit of Nightmare Alley. So

1:20:06.000 --> 1:20:08.400
<v Speaker 4>and sometimes I would like even tell the directors, like

1:20:08.439 --> 1:20:12.360
<v Speaker 4>when Ted was directing Marishka for nine to one one

1:20:12.360 --> 1:20:13.720
<v Speaker 4>where she won the Emmy.

1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:14.639
<v Speaker 6>And the Golden Globe.

1:20:15.320 --> 1:20:17.559
<v Speaker 4>Mrscer calls me to the sense she says, Neil, It's

1:20:17.600 --> 1:20:19.880
<v Speaker 4>like Ted's like, I don't know what he's doing. He's

1:20:19.880 --> 1:20:21.760
<v Speaker 4>shooting in my mouth and a close up and my

1:20:21.880 --> 1:20:23.880
<v Speaker 4>eye and a close up, and I said, go for it,

1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:24.760
<v Speaker 4>you'll win it.

1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:27.920
<v Speaker 6>She did. Also I dressed her up in a very

1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:29.120
<v Speaker 6>fancy cocktail.

1:20:29.240 --> 1:20:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I want to have favorite things we like. If Marishka's

1:20:32.360 --> 1:20:33.960
<v Speaker 2>in address, we know shit's about.

1:20:33.680 --> 1:20:34.200
<v Speaker 3>To go down.

1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:37.519
<v Speaker 6>Do you know why that I did it?

1:20:37.640 --> 1:20:40.519
<v Speaker 3>I did read about it. Is it be a nod

1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:42.160
<v Speaker 3>to like Er and George Clooney?

1:20:42.240 --> 1:20:43.759
<v Speaker 6>Or am I a lot to Clooney?

1:20:43.800 --> 1:20:46.760
<v Speaker 4>Where I wrote the first season where he's in a

1:20:46.760 --> 1:20:49.639
<v Speaker 4>big fight over Juliana and it's Christmas episode and he's

1:20:49.640 --> 1:20:52.200
<v Speaker 4>in a tuxedo and people were saying, oh.

1:20:52.160 --> 1:20:53.960
<v Speaker 6>My god, he's so handsome in that tuxedo.

1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:57.040
<v Speaker 4>And it's like, so I drew the lucky straw in

1:20:57.120 --> 1:20:59.960
<v Speaker 4>your two, And I'm like, can I put Georgie in

1:21:00.080 --> 1:21:03.080
<v Speaker 4>a textedo and have him like be a hero? A

1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:05.720
<v Speaker 4>reluctant hero? So I said, okay, I'm going to send

1:21:05.800 --> 1:21:08.280
<v Speaker 4>him with Andrea Parker to the opera. But she never

1:21:08.320 --> 1:21:10.880
<v Speaker 4>gets there with him, and the kid is in the

1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:14.639
<v Speaker 4>tunnel and he's trapped and the water's rising, and then

1:21:14.800 --> 1:21:17.640
<v Speaker 4>Clooney has to go take him on a plane and

1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:19.400
<v Speaker 4>chopper and make a decision.

1:21:19.400 --> 1:21:20.519
<v Speaker 6>And that's really precient.

1:21:20.960 --> 1:21:25.479
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know, but we're broadcasting from the plane the

1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:30.000
<v Speaker 4>news Guy, which now has happened because of the changes

1:21:30.040 --> 1:21:33.840
<v Speaker 4>in technology, and Tony Edwards and Juliana are like at

1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:35.599
<v Speaker 4>the desk and they look up at the TV and

1:21:35.640 --> 1:21:36.960
<v Speaker 4>they see Clooney there.

1:21:37.240 --> 1:21:40.200
<v Speaker 6>So that was where Clooney saves the kid and he

1:21:40.600 --> 1:21:43.000
<v Speaker 6>raises him up. It's this iconic kind of yep.

1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:44.880
<v Speaker 3>I remember it, So I thought, well.

1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:47.080
<v Speaker 4>Clooney got nominated for an Emmy, so did I for

1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:47.680
<v Speaker 4>writing it.

1:21:48.040 --> 1:21:49.639
<v Speaker 6>We didn't win, but.

1:21:49.600 --> 1:21:52.920
<v Speaker 4>I said to Ted what can we do for Marishka

1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:56.760
<v Speaker 4>that is so different? And Ted said, well, I said,

1:21:56.800 --> 1:21:59.960
<v Speaker 4>have you've done anything that's like that? You just that's

1:22:00.040 --> 1:22:01.640
<v Speaker 4>sticks with me and goes, well, you should see this

1:22:02.040 --> 1:22:06.680
<v Speaker 4>television movie I did with Ingrid Bergmann called The Human Voice,

1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:10.920
<v Speaker 4>where it's only Ingrid Bergmann kind of losing her mind

1:22:11.160 --> 1:22:14.200
<v Speaker 4>on the phone. So then I said, oh, what if

1:22:14.280 --> 1:22:17.479
<v Speaker 4>we put Marishka in a cocktail dress that's super sexy,

1:22:17.560 --> 1:22:20.800
<v Speaker 4>like we did with Cloning, and we put her on

1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:23.559
<v Speaker 4>the phone, but this is with a little girl who's trapped,

1:22:23.640 --> 1:22:27.760
<v Speaker 4>and for three acts, Marishka is stuck in a room

1:22:28.400 --> 1:22:30.400
<v Speaker 4>and we have a clock ticking and she's going to

1:22:30.479 --> 1:22:36.000
<v Speaker 4>lose the phone charge. I said to Ted, watch Hitchcock's Marnie.

1:22:36.439 --> 1:22:39.799
<v Speaker 4>There's a scene with Tippy Hedron and Sean Connery. Diane

1:22:39.800 --> 1:22:41.519
<v Speaker 4>Baker is like one of my closest friends.

1:22:41.560 --> 1:22:42.040
<v Speaker 6>She's in it.

1:22:42.280 --> 1:22:46.880
<v Speaker 4>She did spu of course, and I said, see these

1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:52.040
<v Speaker 4>jump cuts of Sean Connery's eyes and mouth and lips

1:22:52.320 --> 1:22:55.800
<v Speaker 4>and Tippy Hedron's and I said, it'd be inspired by that.

1:22:55.840 --> 1:22:57.679
<v Speaker 4>And then go to the man who Knew too Much

1:22:58.280 --> 1:23:00.679
<v Speaker 4>in the scene with Doris Day in the concert hall

1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:04.400
<v Speaker 4>when Hitchcock is panning faster and faster and faster across

1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:07.920
<v Speaker 4>the music until the day New Mall, when the symbols

1:23:07.920 --> 1:23:09.679
<v Speaker 4>are going to crash and the man's going to get shot.

1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:13.840
<v Speaker 4>I said, use that element for the clock ticking with

1:23:14.320 --> 1:23:18.400
<v Speaker 4>the wonderful actor from Gray's who's been the doctor for

1:23:18.479 --> 1:23:22.559
<v Speaker 4>years and she's won the Emmy. Chandra, she'll be the

1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:25.400
<v Speaker 4>FBI agent. She said she would do it. So if

1:23:25.400 --> 1:23:28.759
<v Speaker 4>you see those scenes and you know about those moments

1:23:28.800 --> 1:23:32.559
<v Speaker 4>in Hitchcock, you can see where Ted was inspired. So

1:23:33.600 --> 1:23:36.360
<v Speaker 4>I said, you don't see on TV someone's just just

1:23:36.439 --> 1:23:39.240
<v Speaker 4>their mouth, right, I said, I want the screen to

1:23:39.360 --> 1:23:45.160
<v Speaker 4>be filled with justin Mrishka's mouth, singing child's nursery rhyme

1:23:45.160 --> 1:23:45.760
<v Speaker 4>in Spanish.

1:23:45.920 --> 1:23:49.040
<v Speaker 6>I want to just see her eye almost tearing up. Yeah,

1:23:49.080 --> 1:23:51.799
<v Speaker 6>so your golden here.

1:23:51.920 --> 1:23:53.200
<v Speaker 3>Man, like not for nothing.

1:23:53.280 --> 1:23:55.479
<v Speaker 1>It's like this gorgeous woman who's always in a mock

1:23:55.560 --> 1:23:57.040
<v Speaker 1>turtleneck or like a blazer.

1:23:57.160 --> 1:23:58.799
<v Speaker 3>Let's get her in a hot dress once.

1:23:58.680 --> 1:24:01.120
<v Speaker 6>In a while, like like what in the hell are

1:24:01.120 --> 1:24:02.240
<v Speaker 6>you putting her in that transfer?

1:24:02.920 --> 1:24:04.760
<v Speaker 4>The whole point is because she's going on on a

1:24:04.840 --> 1:24:06.639
<v Speaker 4>very hot day and he goes, what an eight hundred

1:24:06.720 --> 1:24:10.439
<v Speaker 4>dollars hugo bob? He said, it's TV, And so I said,

1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:11.599
<v Speaker 4>we have to have her look gorgeous.

1:24:11.600 --> 1:24:13.680
<v Speaker 6>I said, to you pick out what you want to

1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:14.920
<v Speaker 6>wear and we're going to give it to you.

1:24:15.240 --> 1:24:21.840
<v Speaker 3>Do you have a favorite Marishka haircut? You can identify

1:24:21.880 --> 1:24:22.559
<v Speaker 3>it by season?

1:24:23.200 --> 1:24:23.639
<v Speaker 6>Exactly.

1:24:23.800 --> 1:24:27.120
<v Speaker 4>One time she called me and she said, I have

1:24:27.160 --> 1:24:29.559
<v Speaker 4>to tell you something, and I was like, what, what's wrong?

1:24:29.640 --> 1:24:33.920
<v Speaker 4>She goes, I got my haircut a little. I was like, oh,

1:24:34.160 --> 1:24:35.120
<v Speaker 4>that's what a season?

1:24:35.200 --> 1:24:35.719
<v Speaker 6>Is that three?

1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:44.679
<v Speaker 3>Or oh they're really really short? Exactly all right.

1:24:45.120 --> 1:24:48.120
<v Speaker 1>That brings us to our post mortem. That interview was

1:24:48.720 --> 1:24:51.520
<v Speaker 1>thrilling and we're definitely.

1:24:51.240 --> 1:24:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Going to have him back. He has so much information.

1:24:53.280 --> 1:24:55.320
<v Speaker 3>I want him to be a regular. I want him

1:24:55.600 --> 1:24:57.920
<v Speaker 3>ya or he's going to be one of our okps

1:24:58.520 --> 1:25:03.160
<v Speaker 3>to borrow from the Jay Train podcas as original key player. Yeah.

1:25:03.160 --> 1:25:05.520
<v Speaker 3>I was like, no one knows what OKP means. Yeah,

1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:07.680
<v Speaker 3>he told me I'm an OKAP and I've been on

1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:09.080
<v Speaker 3>it twice. I'm like, I don't know if I am.

1:25:09.240 --> 1:25:09.280
<v Speaker 4>No.

1:25:09.320 --> 1:25:11.120
<v Speaker 2>I was livid when you told me because I felt

1:25:11.120 --> 1:25:13.920
<v Speaker 2>like I worked very hard to become that and I

1:25:14.000 --> 1:25:16.240
<v Speaker 2>would but whatever.

1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:18.480
<v Speaker 3>So what did we learn from today's episode?

1:25:18.640 --> 1:25:22.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, kids, kids can't be diagnosed as psychopaths, but

1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:26.200
<v Speaker 1>kids can have some fucked up personality disorders like that

1:25:26.200 --> 1:25:29.439
<v Speaker 1>little hell Little Jake was nobody to fuck with, especially

1:25:29.479 --> 1:25:32.240
<v Speaker 1>if you haven't done all your pull ups at Bratt

1:25:32.280 --> 1:25:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Camp or whatever you're at.

1:25:34.280 --> 1:25:37.040
<v Speaker 2>I would say, don't be a vigilante too. I know that,

1:25:38.400 --> 1:25:40.360
<v Speaker 2>but like, don't be a vigilante.

1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:40.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1:25:40.840 --> 1:25:42.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it's okay to be, like to protest, to

1:25:42.960 --> 1:25:45.599
<v Speaker 1>be part of like police accountability groups, but like, don't

1:25:45.600 --> 1:25:47.840
<v Speaker 1>get a scanner and show show up at some guy's

1:25:47.840 --> 1:25:49.679
<v Speaker 1>house and beat up who you think is about aphile

1:25:49.840 --> 1:25:50.640
<v Speaker 1>like stop.

1:25:52.240 --> 1:25:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Like, if you're a parent, stop being blinded by the

1:25:55.640 --> 1:25:58.840
<v Speaker 2>love of your child and always be suspicious that they

1:25:58.880 --> 1:26:03.080
<v Speaker 2>are one one crime away from Yeah, I don't know.

1:26:03.360 --> 1:26:05.960
<v Speaker 1>I also learned that Comma Glacklin looks great in Shades

1:26:06.000 --> 1:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>of Green.

1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:07.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:26:07.200 --> 1:26:09.200
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking of the other vigilante. But I guess

1:26:09.240 --> 1:26:14.280
<v Speaker 2>he's a vigilante too. Yeah, vigilantes everywhere in this epience. Yeah, well,

1:26:14.280 --> 1:26:16.360
<v Speaker 2>he kind of took justice into his own hands.

1:26:16.640 --> 1:26:18.000
<v Speaker 3>I like that he got away with it.

1:26:18.000 --> 1:26:21.520
<v Speaker 2>It is fucked up, but I'm just like, okay, Yeah,

1:26:21.640 --> 1:26:22.519
<v Speaker 2>your kid got killed.

1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:24.160
<v Speaker 3>I guess you got to kill this kid. I'm okay

1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:26.320
<v Speaker 3>with it. Oh, and keep an eye on your kids

1:26:26.320 --> 1:26:27.760
<v Speaker 3>at a Chuck E Cheese. I don't know.

1:26:27.840 --> 1:26:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Like I said, I don't think that Chuck E Cheese

1:26:30.240 --> 1:26:32.559
<v Speaker 1>is really gonna let me know if you think Chuck

1:26:32.560 --> 1:26:34.639
<v Speaker 1>E Cheese is gonna survive past the pandemic.

1:26:34.640 --> 1:26:36.559
<v Speaker 3>But I don't know about ball pits and all that. Now.

1:26:36.920 --> 1:26:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Also, if you're a judge, can you take a day

1:26:38.960 --> 1:26:41.479
<v Speaker 2>before you move a criminal case down to family court?

1:26:41.640 --> 1:26:45.599
<v Speaker 2>This is take a judgees listening, Take a day and

1:26:45.760 --> 1:26:48.840
<v Speaker 2>watch out, because Olivia Benson will remember the Rocks that

1:26:48.920 --> 1:26:49.679
<v Speaker 2>are in your yard.

1:26:49.960 --> 1:26:52.760
<v Speaker 3>So don't use pebbles from your own yard. You will

1:26:52.800 --> 1:26:54.200
<v Speaker 3>get caught if you're gonna use.

1:26:54.400 --> 1:26:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Someone actually commented on our instrum or sent us a

1:26:56.680 --> 1:26:59.720
<v Speaker 2>message like can you stop giving people better advice on

1:26:59.760 --> 1:27:00.679
<v Speaker 2>how to hide bodies?

1:27:00.720 --> 1:27:02.680
<v Speaker 3>Like I don't need more killer, we want them to

1:27:02.680 --> 1:27:03.120
<v Speaker 3>get caught.

1:27:03.160 --> 1:27:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay, but sometime, but it's like, yeah, don't

1:27:06.479 --> 1:27:08.840
<v Speaker 2>use things from your own home that are visible to

1:27:08.960 --> 1:27:11.559
<v Speaker 2>murder like they're gonna be like.

1:27:11.479 --> 1:27:13.720
<v Speaker 3>A thirteen year old murderer. We can't really expect him

1:27:13.760 --> 1:27:15.400
<v Speaker 3>to hide it. And don't drink soda.

1:27:15.439 --> 1:27:19.240
<v Speaker 2>If they give you a can of soda, don't drink it.

1:27:19.240 --> 1:27:21.360
<v Speaker 3>It's a trick. They don't care if you're thirsty.

1:27:21.720 --> 1:27:23.720
<v Speaker 1>They're gonna use a pencil to pick that baby up.

1:27:24.120 --> 1:27:24.959
<v Speaker 1>Get your prints.

1:27:25.280 --> 1:27:27.520
<v Speaker 5>I think cops have to keep their guns less accessible

1:27:27.560 --> 1:27:30.080
<v Speaker 5>to people when they're Oh yeah, that's true too.

1:27:30.880 --> 1:27:31.599
<v Speaker 3>That's true too.

1:27:31.720 --> 1:27:35.080
<v Speaker 1>People in SVU are constantly pulling cop guns right out

1:27:35.080 --> 1:27:39.519
<v Speaker 1>of the whole ster, like there's no snaps, no no guards.

1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of I just saw something on the internet and

1:27:42.160 --> 1:27:44.040
<v Speaker 2>it was a guy that keeps hot sauce and a

1:27:44.040 --> 1:27:47.360
<v Speaker 2>whole ster on his belt, and I like him keep

1:27:47.400 --> 1:27:48.480
<v Speaker 2>that button loose.

1:27:49.479 --> 1:27:54.080
<v Speaker 1>All right, A perfect segue into what would Sister Peg Do? Okay,

1:27:54.240 --> 1:27:56.280
<v Speaker 1>for today's what would Sister Peg Do, which is our

1:27:56.479 --> 1:27:59.559
<v Speaker 1>weekly segment where we just give you guys a little

1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:03.920
<v Speaker 1>bit more background information or some resource or article or

1:28:04.320 --> 1:28:06.920
<v Speaker 1>organization that you can read or donate to, just to

1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:09.200
<v Speaker 1>flesh out a little bit of the topic of what

1:28:09.240 --> 1:28:13.320
<v Speaker 1>we address today. On the episode today, we talked about

1:28:13.479 --> 1:28:18.080
<v Speaker 1>child psychopathy and I read a really really interesting article

1:28:18.600 --> 1:28:20.519
<v Speaker 1>in the Atlantic a few years back that I would

1:28:20.560 --> 1:28:22.559
<v Speaker 1>like to direct your attention to, called When Your Child

1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Is a Psychopath. This story is by Barbara Bradley Haggarty

1:28:26.439 --> 1:28:29.360
<v Speaker 1>and it'll be linked in our show notes, and it's

1:28:29.400 --> 1:28:33.479
<v Speaker 1>just a very interesting, very interesting article. So I wanted

1:28:33.520 --> 1:28:36.040
<v Speaker 1>to give you guys a little bit of extra info

1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:36.400
<v Speaker 1>on that.

1:28:36.880 --> 1:28:39.439
<v Speaker 2>And also if you are in a giving mood, you know,

1:28:39.520 --> 1:28:42.400
<v Speaker 2>for Lent or something. We have show notes that have

1:28:42.479 --> 1:28:45.360
<v Speaker 2>all the other charities and organizations we've highlighted for like

1:28:45.400 --> 1:28:48.840
<v Speaker 2>sixteen episodes, so you know, if you've got a tax refund,

1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:50.640
<v Speaker 2>check on into our resources.

1:28:50.800 --> 1:28:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Look at this.

1:28:51.360 --> 1:28:53.400
<v Speaker 3>Jew know one about Lent. I don't know when Lent

1:28:53.560 --> 1:28:57.800
<v Speaker 3>is damn girl. Well, it's the fish Sandwich season. You

1:28:57.840 --> 1:29:02.240
<v Speaker 3>know my eye on that. Does McDonald's bring back the

1:29:02.280 --> 1:29:04.160
<v Speaker 3>file of fish during lund Well, they.

1:29:04.080 --> 1:29:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Always have it, but on Fridays you can get like

1:29:06.000 --> 1:29:07.439
<v Speaker 2>two for four or something like that.

1:29:07.840 --> 1:29:11.400
<v Speaker 3>Got it, Got it big. I'm very into advertising big

1:29:11.479 --> 1:29:15.160
<v Speaker 3>ups to Christianity from McDonald's. Okay, let's see.

1:29:15.320 --> 1:29:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Next week's episode is going to be Institutional Fail from

1:29:18.040 --> 1:29:22.680
<v Speaker 1>season seventeen. That's episode four, And if you don't have

1:29:22.720 --> 1:29:25.240
<v Speaker 1>a chance to write that down, please know that we

1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:28.519
<v Speaker 1>always post it on our Instagram. Every Thursday, you get

1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:30.839
<v Speaker 1>your homework posts that tells you what next week's episode

1:29:30.880 --> 1:29:32.080
<v Speaker 1>will be, and just.

1:29:32.040 --> 1:29:34.360
<v Speaker 3>That by I. I don't know whether you're getting your

1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:35.800
<v Speaker 3>episodes on Peacock.

1:29:35.479 --> 1:29:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Or Hulu or wherever they are available, but Hulu I

1:29:38.680 --> 1:29:40.479
<v Speaker 1>think might have this listed as episode three. You just

1:29:40.479 --> 1:29:44.000
<v Speaker 1>make sure you're watching Institutional Fail, which we believe is

1:29:44.400 --> 1:29:46.559
<v Speaker 1>truly episode four, but however they label it.

1:29:46.640 --> 1:29:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Wherever there's a thumbnail of Whoopie Goldberg, you know you're

1:29:49.280 --> 1:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>in the right place.

1:29:50.000 --> 1:29:53.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'll see you guys next week.

1:29:53.720 --> 1:30:04.599
<v Speaker 3>Bye bye bye. That's messed up as an exactly right production.

1:30:04.800 --> 1:30:06.680
<v Speaker 1>If you have compliments you'd like to give us or

1:30:06.720 --> 1:30:08.920
<v Speaker 1>episodes you'd like us to cover. Shoot us an email

1:30:08.920 --> 1:30:11.720
<v Speaker 1>at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

1:30:11.400 --> 1:30:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod

1:30:14.200 --> 1:30:16.760
<v Speaker 2>and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us

1:30:16.800 --> 1:30:19.519
<v Speaker 2>personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.

1:30:19.880 --> 1:30:22.600
<v Speaker 1>As always, please see our show notes for sources and

1:30:22.680 --> 1:30:23.360
<v Speaker 1>more information.

1:30:23.720 --> 1:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our

1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:30.320
<v Speaker 2>incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton, and to.

1:30:30.320 --> 1:30:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Our sound engineer and personal hero Analis Nilsson, and to

1:30:33.720 --> 1:30:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jeen Andrews

1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:40.639
<v Speaker 1>for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar,

1:30:40.840 --> 1:30:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

1:30:44.479 --> 1:30:48.479
<v Speaker 2>Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,

1:30:48.680 --> 1:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser

1:30:51.920 --> 1:30:55.479
<v Speaker 2>interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot.

1:30:55.280 --> 1:30:57.800
<v Speaker 3>Com slash ads Done.

1:30:57.800 --> 1:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Done