1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: President Trump, we learn we'll be meeting with members of 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: the House Freedom Caucus about the tax cut and Spending cutbill, 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 2: the reconciliation process that's underway right now in our Rules 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: Committee hearing, Kaylee, where now I believe twelve hours into 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: that process, and a lot of questions about whether we 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: will see a floor vote on what the President calls 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: one big beautiful bill. Much of this hinges on a 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: deal around raising the salt cap. And that's why we're 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: really glad to be joined by Congressman Mike Lawler, the 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: Republican from New York is with us now live from 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill, and Congressman, we really appreciate so generous with 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: your time in waiting for the President to wrap at 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: least this part of the conversation. In the Oval Office, 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: there is news of a deal on salt a forty. 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 3: Thousand dollars cap. 21 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: If that's real, Congressman, you managed to quadruple the current cap. 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: Is that the kind of bacon that you can bring home. 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 4: Look, this was a critically important negotiation. I was very 24 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 4: clear for over two years that I would never support 25 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 4: a tax bill that did not adequately lift the cap 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 4: on salt. We put pen to paper yesterday, met with leadership, 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 4: worked throughout the course of the day to come to 28 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 4: an agreement that would lift the cap on salt and 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 4: provide real and immediate and lasting tax relief for hardworking 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 4: middle class families. The agreement would lift the cap to 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 4: forty thousand, with an income cap of five hundred thousand 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 4: that would be phased out, and anyone making above that 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 4: would go back down to ten thousand, which is the 34 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 4: current cap. And it provides for the entire of the 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 4: ten years of the bill, which is critically important to 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 4: make sure that folks are getting real relief. You know, 37 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 4: you look at a district like mine, Three of the 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 4: top four of the four counties I represent are in 39 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: the top sixteen highest property tax counties in America. So 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 4: when we talk about these issues, this isn't about the rich. 41 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 4: This is about providing tax relief to middle class families 42 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 4: who are besieged by high property taxes and high income taxes. 43 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 4: And many of my colleagues will say that a lot 44 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 4: of people don't itemize and they don't take the salt deduction. Well, 45 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 4: that's true, because we doubled the standard deduction, and part 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 4: of the pay for for doubling that was salt. And 47 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 4: so we're seeking, after seven years of having this ten 48 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 4: thousand dollars cap, to provide real relief to the middle class. 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 4: And that's what this is about. 50 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 5: So Congressman, should we take that to assume, with the 51 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 5: terms of this deal, that you are now a yes 52 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 5: on this legislation, And assuming you are, are you aware 53 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 5: of any member of the Salt Caucus who was not 54 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 5: yet too yes with you? 55 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 4: I think the members of the Salt Caucus, you know, 56 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 4: negotiated yesterday in good faith with leadership, with the administration, 57 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 4: and we settled on something that we believe in that 58 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 4: we support. Obviously, we're waiting for the final details to 59 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,839 Speaker 4: emerge out of the Rules Committee, but obviously we made 60 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 4: great progress yesterday and I feel much better about where 61 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 4: the bill is. 62 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: As a result, there does seem to be some growing 63 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: optimism over a possible floor vote as soon as today, Congressman, 64 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: maybe tomorrow. I know the Speaker wanted to see it 65 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: happen by the Memorial Day break. 66 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 3: Will that be the case. 67 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 4: I know the administration and leadership are working to get 68 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 4: that done. Meeting with members today, obviously, you know that 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 4: time frame is something the Speaker set out to achieve. 70 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 4: The objective here is to get the bill passed ultimately 71 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 4: to take effect, to make sure that we are providing 72 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 4: real tax relief, that we are securing our border, that 73 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 4: we are strengthening our military, increasing domestic production of energy, 74 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 4: and protecting vital programs like Medicaid long term and cutting 75 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 4: out the waste, fraud and abuse, and making sure that 76 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 4: illegal immigrants, for instance, are not receiving benefits and taking 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 4: away from the very people who rely on these programs, 78 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 4: like the idd community or our seniors or children. We 79 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 4: want to protect this for the long term, get our 80 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 4: fiscal house in order while providing real tax relief. That's 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 4: what this bill is about. We've been working on it 82 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 4: for months. Obviously, any time you're negotiating, there's going to 83 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 4: be a give and take. There's going to be a 84 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 4: back and forth. You know, you work through these issues 85 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 4: and come to an agreement. And you know, as I've 86 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 4: said many times, anybody who's ever been married knows you're 87 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 4: going to have to find compromises along the way. You're 88 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 4: not going to get everything you want in life. So 89 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 4: you've got to work through this. And that's what we've 90 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 4: done in good faith. 91 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 5: Well, and it's not just compromises within the House Republican Conference, 92 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 5: but there also may need to be compromises made between 93 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 5: the House and Senate, which will take up this measure next, 94 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 5: assuming it can get off the House floor. Congressman, has 95 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 5: the Speaker shared with you any assurances that the Senate 96 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 5: will not make changes to the salt deal that he 97 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 5: just negotiated with you and your colleagues. 98 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 4: This obviously has been a big topic of conversation, and 99 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 4: I'll keep those conversations private, but I certainly know that 100 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 4: the Speaker understands how important it is that this agreement 101 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 4: remain intact. 102 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: I want to go back to the case that you 103 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: made for raising the salt cap. In the outset, Congressman, 104 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: we heard from Chip Roy. Of course, allowed member of 105 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: the Freedom Caucus, who I understand is going to be 106 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: meeting with the President later on today, he suggested that 107 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: leadership is buying quote, a handful of seats with three 108 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty billion dollars in parochial tax subsidies in 109 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: the form of salts. 110 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 3: Is it possible to have a. 111 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: Conversation with someone who holds that point of view or 112 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: are you counting them out? 113 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 4: Listen, I respect all my colleagues and their perspectives. The 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 4: fact is New York is a donor state. We send 115 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 4: more money down to Washington than we get back. So 116 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 4: we can get into the subsidy debate about which states 117 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 4: are taking money from the federal government and which ones 118 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 4: are actually helping fund the federal government. But the fact 119 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 4: is that New Yorkers should not be double tax they 120 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 4: should not be penalized for living in a high tax state. 121 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 4: Salt was in effect for over one hundred years, and 122 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 4: it was used as a pay for, and frankly, part 123 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: of that pay for was to double the standard deduction 124 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 4: and provide tax relief to Americans all across this country. 125 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 4: We're just simply saying, after seven years of the ten 126 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 4: thousand dollars cap which was arbitrary and capricious, that we 127 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 4: need to have a much fairer approach, and that's what 128 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 4: we have negotiated. Everybody has understood this for well over 129 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 4: two years. I ran on this, I fought for it. 130 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 4: I said it very clearly from the moment I came 131 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 4: here that I would never support a bill that doesn't 132 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 4: adequately lift the cap on salt. We have been working 133 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 4: to negotiate to an agreement, and so that's what we've 134 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 4: done and I stand by it well. 135 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 5: And of course you and your fellow New Yorkers who 136 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 5: have helped make the Republican majority have made the case 137 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 5: that if that majority is to be retained, there needs 138 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 5: to be changes to sold. But as we look ahead 139 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 5: to twenty twenty six, if the other side of this 140 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 5: getting what you want on salt is conservatives also getting 141 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 5: a pulling forward of stricter work requirements around Medicaid to 142 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 5: begin in December of twenty twenty six, as we understand, 143 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 5: does that not put the majority at risk for a 144 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 5: whole other reason. How do you navigate around that issue 145 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 5: in the midterms. 146 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 4: Well, look, at the end of the day, I think 147 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 4: there's broad consensus within the Conference on a few key areas. 148 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 4: Number one, eligibility verification, making sure that somebody who is 149 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 4: not eligible doesn't remain on the program for up to 150 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 4: a year, which is what the Biden administration allowed, Citizenship verification, 151 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 4: making sure that illegal immigrants are not receiving benefits that 152 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 4: they're not entitled to, and work requirements. Able bodied adults 153 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 4: without dependence should be trying to work. I mean you're 154 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 4: talking about eighty hours a month of work requirements, or 155 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: educational requirements or volunteering. Anybody who is able bodied should 156 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 4: be trying to improve their life by working. The fact 157 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 4: is Medicaid is a means tested program, and so as 158 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 4: part of that, you are trying to help lift people up, 159 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 4: lift them out of poverty, lift them out of their situation. 160 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 4: Work requirements are something Democrats fought for for years. Bill 161 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 4: Clinton was the biggest champion of work requirements. So I 162 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 4: don't think the issue of work requirements speeding up from 163 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 4: twenty nine to twenty seven is frankly an impediment. I 164 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 4: think there's broad consensus that we should be trying to 165 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 4: help people lift themselves up. Work requirements is a way 166 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 4: to help facilitate that as we are providing them with 167 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 4: support through Medicaid. 168 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 5: All right, Congressman, we appreciate you joining us here on 169 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 5: Bloomberg TV and Radio. Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New 170 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 5: York with us live from Capitol Hill. 171 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 172 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 173 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 174 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 175 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 176 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: This is, of course an entirely Republican exercise, because it 177 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: is reconciliation we're talking about. 178 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 3: Want to add the voice of another Republican. 179 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: Congressman Kevin Hearn of Oklahoma joins us now live from 180 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill. 181 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 3: Amid the swirling debate over. 182 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,599 Speaker 2: Tax cuts, spending cuts, and as we just heard, Congressman, 183 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Congressman Polone talk 184 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: about Medicaid cuts. And I know that there's been some 185 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: evolving rhetoric around this. A lot of Republicans see this 186 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: not as a cut, but as making the program more 187 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: efficient and in fact work better. There was a time 188 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: when you were known as the mic Congressman. You owned 189 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: I believe nearly twenty McDonald's franchises in the Tulsa area. 190 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: How do you make that argument to an entry level 191 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 2: worker at McDonald's. 192 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 6: Well, first of all, thanks for having me, and it 193 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 6: is you know, obviously both sides are talking about what's 194 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 6: in the bill. I would argue that the Democrats are 195 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 6: trying to do everything they can to make America afraid. 196 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 6: But here's the reality. Reality is is the waste, fraud, 197 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 6: and abuse in Medicaid. As the President has talked, and 198 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 6: I support everything he's talking about. He has said explicitly, 199 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 6: do not cut the benefits to the American workers, the 200 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 6: people who need Medicaid out there. He said it again yesterday, 201 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 6: he said it in the press. He is not mixed 202 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 6: words about this. And so he wants us to go 203 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 6: after the people that are legally on Medicaid and wants 204 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 6: us to look at work requirements for those who are 205 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 6: able to work don't have dependents, and that's going to 206 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 6: make the Medicaid program more solvent. But we also know 207 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 6: that the Medicaid program is probably the one area of 208 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 6: government benefits that is going to explode and is exploding 209 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 6: right now in exposure and cost. That's going to be 210 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 6: required to keep it afloat into the future. 211 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 5: Well, so if that is the case, Congressman, are we 212 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 5: talking about long term solves here with these measures or 213 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 5: does something more substantial need to be done. Do the 214 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 5: members of the Freedom Clocus actually have a valid point 215 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 5: that they're making. 216 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 6: Well, the only way there's going to be anything that's 217 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 6: going to make all of our programs Social Security, Medicare, 218 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 6: and Medicaid solvent for all of those into the future 219 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 6: is to come together in a bipartisan way. This will 220 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 6: never be done in a reconciliation process where one party 221 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 6: has control of the House of Senate and the White House, 222 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 6: whether it's the Democrats or Republicans, there just will not 223 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 6: be enough willpower to make that happen because everybody knows 224 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 6: to do it unilaterally. The other side, as you're seeing 225 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 6: with the Democrats, will demogogue so badly that nothing will 226 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 6: get done. And that's why you're seeing that if we 227 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 6: don't do anything with secial security, and medicare sit down 228 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 6: together in a responsible way, Democrats Republicans, then in less 229 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 6: than seven years, there's going to be a twenty one 230 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 6: percent across a cut across the board cut and so 231 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 6: we have to come together to work on these programs 232 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 6: to make sure that they're solvent for those who deserve them. 233 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: I know this is still a tied up in the 234 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: Rules Committee as we speak, Congressman, and there's no sign 235 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: of this hearing coming to an end while we're talking today, 236 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: but there's an expectation that we'll see a floor vote 237 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: as soon as tonight, maybe tomorrow. 238 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 3: Do you hear that that's the case. 239 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: Is that what you're planning for or could this be 240 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: an extended working weekend maybe into the holiday for your caucus. 241 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, So as part of leadership, I can tell you 242 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 6: right now it has been our mission to get this 243 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 6: done before Memorial Day weekend, which tonight's from the night. 244 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 6: We're going to make this happen right now. As you mentioned, 245 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 6: the amendments are being debated in the Rules Committee that 246 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 6: started meeting at one am this morning. And I think 247 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 6: what this has proved, whether it's last week's markups, we're 248 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 6: going to work day and night to make sure that 249 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 6: America's taxes remain low. President Trump's fingerprints are all over this, 250 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 6: starting with the twenty seventeen Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, 251 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 6: making that permanent the tax cuts he's doing for the 252 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 6: working class upwards of two thousand dollars in additional taxes 253 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 6: that will not be taken from our people making working 254 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 6: on tips or working in overtime. So all of these 255 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 6: things are important, and including to including reducing the tax 256 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 6: burden on our seniors by some five hundred to seven 257 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 6: hundred dollars per year. All of these things the President 258 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 6: has done. This is not about giving tax cuts to 259 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 6: the rich, as the Democrats are wanting to use a 260 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 6: talking point from seven years ago. This is about making 261 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 6: permanent you all report on business outcomes. There's not a 262 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 6: business person in America that says, by me keeping my 263 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 6: taxes where they are that somehow that's going to cost 264 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 6: the federal government. Only in the scoring of the Congressional 265 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 6: Budget Office does that actually cost money. 266 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 5: Well, Congress, when you are right, we do focus on 267 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 5: business outcomes here, and we also know that there are 268 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,479 Speaker 5: businesses that we're counting on tax credits and other subsidies 269 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 5: in the Inflation Reduction Act that may be rolled black. Now, 270 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 5: you actually told our colleagues on Capitol Hill earlier today 271 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 5: that it's your understanding. The Freedom Caucus is going to 272 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 5: try to talk to the White House about clying back 273 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 5: tax credits from existing projects. Can they do that? And 274 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 5: is that something not only do you expect the House 275 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 5: Conference is willing to support, but wo the Senate get 276 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 5: behind an initiative like that. 277 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 6: Well, I don't know about the Senate, but that's my 278 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 6: understanding that's been reported that they're wanting to look at 279 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 6: projects that have already been connected to the grid, that 280 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 6: are not yet complete or are still being in working process, 281 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 6: and then having those costs borne by the rate payers 282 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 6: that if somebody has to pay them. In way our 283 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 6: utility system is set up, the commissions or the oversight 284 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 6: groups of each state would be those public utilities will 285 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 6: be able to go back to the rate payers to 286 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 6: be able to make up for that instead of the 287 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 6: federal government paying, you know, somebody in Oklahoma paying for 288 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 6: a grid system in say Kentucky or somewhere. And so 289 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 6: I don't know what the final details of that are 290 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 6: going to be. They wanted to go to the White 291 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 6: House to talk about this, so my assumption is is 292 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 6: that they're on their way over there to to get 293 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 6: support from the President on this. Again, this is really 294 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 6: important part. It's it's a very should that happen to be. 295 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 6: I think it's three to four hundred billion dollars in 296 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 6: possible scoring. That would be additional savings in ways and means. 297 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 6: Because we did all of our stuff working together, not 298 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 6: you know, trying to work through these and hash out. 299 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 6: We had a lot of dialogue. We have, you know, 300 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 6: folks from you know, very rich cold country. We have 301 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 6: folks from oil and gas states lot myself. We have 302 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 6: people that have been in business for a long time 303 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 6: like myself, and we've had others that have been in 304 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 6: state politics that understand how these green credits work and 305 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 6: how they you know, how they're important to states generating 306 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 6: jobs and you know, encumbered by debt and equity situations. 307 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 6: So all of this was fleshed out. That's why we 308 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 6: came to five hundred and fifteen billion dollars in saving 309 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 6: on the green credits by shortening the phase out time 310 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 6: but still allowing for people that had pro just going 311 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 6: to be able. 312 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: To utilize those. 313 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 5: All right, Congressman, we appreciate you joining us here on 314 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 5: Bloomberg TV and radio. Republican Congressman Kevin Heard of Oklahoma 315 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 5: here with us on balance of power as we continue 316 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 5: to follow the movement on Capitol Hill toward trying to 317 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 5: get to a vote on budget reconciliation. We're also following 318 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 5: the markets. I would note we did see at the 319 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 5: top of this hour a twenty year auction that tailed 320 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 5: weak demand, and that has sent treasury yields materially higher. 321 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 5: We're now up eleven basis points on the thirty year 322 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 5: to five point eight percent, and you're seeing a subsequent 323 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 5: move in equities as well. The S and P five 324 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 5: hundred has ruled over in a big way, now down 325 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 5: about one point three percent. We'll get more on that 326 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 5: with our colleague Charlie Pellett in New York in just 327 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 5: a moment, but first we want to check in with 328 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 5: our political panel who is joining us today. Kristen Hahn 329 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 5: is with US partner at Rock Solutions and Democratic Strategists, 330 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 5: alongside Republican strategist Lisa Commissa Miller, former RNC communications director. 331 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 5: Welcome to you both, as we consider what is happening 332 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 5: in the markets right now, especially in the bond market, 333 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 5: may be tied to what's actually happening with fiscal policy, 334 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 5: so it's great to get your perspective on the direction 335 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 5: that this is really heading Lisa, do you expect that 336 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 5: this package with the changes the Speaker is negotiating either 337 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 5: has finalized with the Salt Caucus perhaps still working on 338 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 5: the Conservatives can have a vote this week? 339 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 7: Hailey, It really feels unlikely. It feels like everything that 340 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 7: I'm seeing, every indication that I'm hearing, there's a movement 341 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 7: from leadership that really wants to get this done by 342 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 7: the week's end. President is obviously asking for the same, 343 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 7: But the Freedom Caucus has said that they do not 344 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 7: feel like a vote this week is it makes good sense. 345 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 7: They feel like it's an arbitrary deadline, and so it 346 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 7: feels to me like there are just far too many 347 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 7: factions still undecided that would get us through and get 348 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 7: this done. This is Wednesday. We still have a rules package, 349 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 7: we don't necessarily have that through the Rules Committee, and 350 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 7: then that goes to the floor and then more debate happens. 351 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 7: So while the movement continues to go and advance itself, 352 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 7: it doesn't nesscessarily to me, at least right now, feel 353 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 7: like it's likely to happen for the end of the week. 354 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: You've seen a couple of these, Kristen Han, what's your take, 355 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 2: because we spoke with a very optimistic Mike Lawler at 356 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: the top of the hour, Chip Roy sounds exactly the opposite. 357 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 2: Unclear if the president can change moods today. Is this 358 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: bill gaining momentum or is it slowing down? 359 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 8: Well, I mean think Mike Lawler has a reason to 360 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 8: be happy right now, so he's coming out of a 361 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 8: very positive meeting. Meanwhile, a lot of his colleagues are not. So, 362 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 8: you know, I agree with Lisa. I think that you know, 363 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 8: this is you know, the legislative process. Although I really 364 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 8: do think that the president and the House Republican leadership. 365 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 8: I mean, if I were in one of those tough 366 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 8: seats to hold on to as a Republican, I would 367 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 8: be very wary of taking a vote on a bill 368 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 8: like this because it's going to come back to haunt them. 369 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 5: Well, and when we consider what will come back to 370 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 5: haunt whom when and the positioning President Trump specifically here Lisa, 371 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 5: who obviously would like to see a Republican majority maintained 372 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 5: to the extent, and he wants to see this package 373 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 5: perhaps first and foremost, passed by Congress. He went to 374 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 5: Capitol Hill yesterday to make the case. We understand He'll 375 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 5: be meeting at the White House this afternoon with the 376 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 5: Speaker and holdouts in the House Freedom Caucus. Is he 377 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 5: able to convince them today of what he couldn't yesterday 378 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 5: or is he losing his power to exercise complete control 379 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 5: over the Republican Conference. 380 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 7: You know, I think, Kelly, I've said this before and 381 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 7: I continue to assert that this is a system where 382 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 7: in order to get what you want from the White House, 383 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 7: in order for the White House to get the Congress 384 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 7: to move, they have to have an agreement amongst the 385 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 7: parties about how the parties of those the Congress, and 386 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 7: that White House agreement on policy issues. The President has 387 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 7: the tariffs that are still overweighing and over leaning over 388 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 7: a lot of these districts where they're already feeling the 389 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 7: pinch and already feeling the pain. And I think the 390 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 7: difference between what the President is asking for and what 391 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 7: the Freedom ca is is looking for is still very 392 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 7: very far apart. So as much as the President's going 393 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 7: to tell them to do whatever they can, they also 394 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 7: know that when it comes down to midterm elections, the 395 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 7: President is not going to have as much of a 396 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 7: sway as he once did because he is in fact 397 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 7: in the second half at that point of his term, 398 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 7: and it will make him less and less powerful. So 399 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 7: over time, the President will have less control and less 400 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 7: opportunity to really influence those members because they, in fact 401 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 7: are really trying to defend their seats and stay in power. 402 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 7: And also they need to go home in just a 403 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 7: few short weeks to defend their decision and defend this vote, 404 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 7: and that, to me, would be the one thing that 405 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 7: stands in between the President being successful and those members 406 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 7: and those tough districts taking a vote that they won't 407 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 7: necessarily be able to defend when they return in the 408 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 7: summertime to their districts. 409 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: Kristin, If Democrats don't have a seat at the table 410 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: and they don't buy the nature of reconciliation, this is 411 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: a Republican only exercise. Are they scheduling town halls for 412 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 2: this Memorial Day break to try to shine a light 413 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 2: on what's happening here? We know that Republicans have been 414 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: wary of doing so, based on the DOGE, based on Medicaid. 415 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: What are Democrats going to do when they go home? 416 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 8: I think it's interesting that you asked, because yes, I mean, 417 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 8: the short answer is yes, and I know I was 418 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 8: in touch with some friends over in the House yesterday 419 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 8: about the extent of those plans. And it's not just 420 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 8: going home to their own districts to talk to their 421 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 8: constituents about what is happening and what this bill actually does, 422 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,239 Speaker 8: specifically with regard to Medicaid cuts, but they will be 423 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 8: pointing those things out in these Republican districts as well, 424 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 8: so the identified areas where this would particularly hurt some 425 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 8: of these Republican districts, making sure that their constituents know, 426 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 8: you know, what at least this House bill is doing. 427 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 8: And as we all know, this bill, if and when 428 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 8: it does pass the House is going to go over 429 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 8: to the Senate and they're going to be, you know, 430 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 8: a multitude of changes to this bill. So I think, 431 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 8: you know, when these members go home, they're going to 432 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 8: have a number of things to answer for, particularly as 433 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 8: these cuts begin to take place, if the Republicans are 434 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 8: ultimately successful. 435 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 5: Well, and they may have to answer a lot of 436 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 5: questions about the impact this is ultimately going to have 437 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 5: on the deficit in the long term burden that the 438 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 5: United States and the people within it are saddled with. 439 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 5: Lisa that seems to be what we're seeing evidence of 440 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 5: in financial markets today, in the bond market, especially as 441 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 5: we're seeing the old rocketing higher on both the tenure 442 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 5: and the thirty year. We're up more than ten basis points. 443 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 5: And we have seen President Trump in the past, granted 444 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 5: it was related to tariffs earlier this year, take a 445 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 5: look at what's happening in the bond market, identify what 446 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 5: he saw as queasiness, and decide to change his course 447 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 5: of action. If we are seeing material upset in financial 448 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 5: markets once again over this legislative package that he campaigned 449 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 5: on that we know he wants very badly, would you 450 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 5: expect any kind of similar change of harder? Is this 451 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 5: already largely done and dusted? 452 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 7: You know, it's really hard to tell, Kaylee. It does 453 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 7: feel like he is while he is saying, you know, 454 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 7: damn the torpedoes and let's go forward. The President also 455 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 7: is mindful of the fact that if the market takes 456 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 7: a hit, or if there are shifts in the underpinnings 457 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 7: of the market, that he very well will adjust because 458 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 7: he doesn't necessarily want to have to answer for that, 459 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 7: because he knows that those kinds of signs are signs 460 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 7: of long term pain and not short term pain. And 461 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 7: that's the other thing that I think he will be 462 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 7: watching for and his advisors will be watching for. But ultimately, Kaylee, 463 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 7: he wants to win so badly. He wants this big, 464 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 7: beautiful bill, one big piece of legislation which could Golly, 465 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 7: I'm as old to know. I mean, the last time 466 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 7: we did that was in nineteen twenty ten when we 467 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 7: passed the Affordable Care Act, So it's been a long 468 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 7: time since we've had a great, big, giant bill get 469 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 7: passed in the Congress in the way that the White 470 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 7: House wants to see it done. But you know, if 471 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 7: anybody's willing to take the shot and take this unprecedented 472 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 7: stance and way to move, it'll be Donald Trump, you. 473 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 3: Know, Kristin. 474 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 2: It's interesting as we consider what we're seeing in the 475 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: bond market here, the concerns on Wall Street across the 476 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 2: board about rising debt and deficits. 477 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 3: This is something that the party and. 478 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: Power frequently loses religion on, but it's going to be 479 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: hard for lawmakers to hide from what's happening in the 480 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: markets when it's right before our eyes, like this was 481 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: extending the current policy baseline, the original sin in this process. 482 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: How come we're not arguing about how to pay for it? 483 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 8: I mean, I think I do think so, and I 484 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 8: think that you're exactly right. The reason why we're not 485 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 8: arguing about how to pay for it is because you've 486 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 8: got one party control in Washington. They want to extend 487 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 8: these tax cuts and it's very, very difficult to do 488 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 8: that if you're looking at actually paying for it. So 489 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 8: it's easier to saddle future generations with that debt. And 490 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,239 Speaker 8: I know it's people you know, who are in the 491 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 8: minority party generally get religion on this and talk about 492 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 8: saddling future generations, but it really is, and it has 493 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 8: real impacts on our national security. And you know, you 494 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 8: look at the CBO scoring and you're going to hear 495 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 8: a lot about from republic since they come out in 496 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 8: support of this bill, talking about dynamic scoring and all 497 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 8: of these things. I mean, it's a tale as old 498 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 8: as time. At the end of the day, you know, 499 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 8: I do agree with the Congressman that both sides are 500 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 8: going to have to get together and figure this thing out. 501 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 8: But as long as there's one party control and Washington's 502 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 8: not going to happen. 503 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 2: Now, the CBO says this plan would increase the deficit 504 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: by two point three trillion dollars over a decade. 505 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 506 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 507 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen 508 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 509 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 510 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington, and on 511 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: any other day, what took place today in the Oval 512 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: Office would be our lead story. It's one of many 513 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: at the moment, as the President of South Africa, syroh Ramaosa, 514 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: arrives at the White House amid allegation of genocide put 515 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: forth by President Trump against white africaners, in many cases 516 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: white farmers, some of whom have been given refugee status 517 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 2: here in the United States. 518 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 3: It started off as a cordial conversation. 519 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: The President then started to dig into these allegations, going 520 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: so far as to even show a video with unsubstantiated 521 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: claims of this persecution. The South African president was given 522 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: a chance to speak. 523 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 524 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 9: It will take President Trump listening to the voices of 525 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 9: South Africa, some of whom are his good friends, like 526 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 9: those who are here. When we have talks between us 527 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 9: on the quiet table, it will take President Trump to 528 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 9: listen to them. 529 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: President Ramafosa at the White House for lunch and a 530 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: bilateral meeting with President Trump that presumably includes other issues 531 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: including trade, and we want to talk about this with 532 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 2: Patrick Gaspard. A perfect day to have the distinguished senior 533 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 2: fellow at the Center for American Progress. It's former US 534 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: Ambassador South Africa in the Obama administration. Mister ambassador, welcome 535 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Donald Trump is talking 536 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: about genocide today. What should be the response from South Africa. 537 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 10: Well, thank you so very much for having me on. 538 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 10: But it's a bizarre day to be on here today. 539 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 10: Donald Trump is talking about genocide in South Africa. Let's 540 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 10: be really clear here. There is absolutely positively no credible 541 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 10: human rights organization in South Africa or anywhere in the 542 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 10: world that says that there's a genocide taking place in 543 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 10: South Africa. So the response for President Robert Bolsa has 544 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 10: to only be one, there's no genocide. 545 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 8: Two. 546 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 10: The bilateral partnership between the US and South Africa is 547 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 10: incredibly important for both sides of the Atlantic on security, 548 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 10: on the economy, on trade. We've got to do things 549 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 10: to bridge this gap, both in the facts and in 550 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 10: the material relationship between the two countries. 551 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 4: Well. 552 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 5: President Trump brought to the Oval Office the facts that 553 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 5: he wanted to underscore, at least what was presented as fact, 554 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 5: a video with monitors that had been rolled in and 555 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 5: edited together for those in the Oval Office to see 556 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 5: in person, printed handouts of stories in which he said 557 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 5: they described horrible death of white South Africans. Knowing that 558 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 5: it did seem that a certain amount of this was staged, 559 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 5: and knowing as well, mister Ambassador, that Sera Amaphosa, while 560 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 5: not in the presidential role, was in the South African 561 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 5: government at the time you were serving as ambassador, so 562 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 5: you do know the players here. How did he conduct himself? 563 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 5: Did he do well well? 564 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 10: I've known President Raben Polsa ever since he was a 565 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 10: labor leader in the country. When I first visited in 566 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 10: nineteen ninety one. President Rama Polsa did everything that he 567 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 10: could to maintain his composure and not only his personal dignity, 568 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 10: but the dignity of the nation that he represents. But 569 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 10: it's really hard when You're sitting across from Donald Trump, 570 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 10: and he's laying out not facts, Katy, but propaganda. The 571 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 10: film that he showed comes from an organization called Afrofum 572 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 10: that's known to be aligned with the most extreme fringe 573 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 10: right wing elements not only in South Africa, but in 574 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 10: the US, Australia and other places. They are adjacent to 575 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 10: people who have been identified as Neo Nazis. These are 576 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 10: questionable characters. You should also understand that the black South 577 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 10: African who's in the video exhorting violence against White Africaners 578 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 10: is another fringe character who is not in the government, 579 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 10: who Sera Ramaposa in the A and C soundly defeated 580 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 10: in the last elections, and who has no credible power 581 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 10: in the country. So it's rhetoric, no fact, all propaganda. 582 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 10: White Africaners, who make up less than eight percent of 583 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 10: the population, represent less than two percent of the murder 584 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 10: victims in South Africa. Furthermore, that small African population also 585 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 10: happened to be some of the largest landowners in a 586 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,239 Speaker 10: country that has real asymmetriies of economic conclusion. Those are 587 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 10: the things that South Africans are trying to sell with 588 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 10: the partnership of the US through trade, through hundreds of 589 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 10: thousands of jobs that are reliant on the African growth. 590 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 10: An Opportunity Act that I helped to renegotiate that's up 591 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 10: for renegotiation now, and that Donald Trump and the American 592 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 10: people should be something in a fashion that helps people 593 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 10: along the supply chain in America, consumers in America and 594 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 10: workers in South Africa. 595 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 3: This is really helpful context. Ambassador. 596 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm sure you saw that Elon Musk was in the 597 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 2: Oval office. We didn't hear him speak. But when you 598 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: step back and consider what just happened, was this an ambush? 599 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 10: It was absolutely at ambush, as evident by the video 600 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 10: that you just made reference to being wheeled in and 601 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 10: then the President of the United States sitting there. We've 602 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 10: printed out copies of alleged articles that lay out the 603 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 10: crimes against africaners in the country, a president who, by 604 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 10: the way, has overturned the entire asylum system in the 605 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 10: US for every other nation, every other nationality, but it's 606 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 10: storing open the doors to Africaners who are allegedly under assault. 607 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 10: Elon Musk didn't have to speak. He is the silent 608 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 10: partner in the negotiations here. Elon Musk and Starlink have 609 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 10: been trying to get into the South Africa space. They're 610 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 10: making all kinds of demands on the South African government, 611 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 10: and I believe, I truly believe that Donald Trump is 612 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 10: carrying water for Elon Musk in these conversations, and they're 613 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 10: hoping that the South Africans will overturn a regulatory framework 614 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 10: that has not made it possible for BUSCA to operate 615 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 10: in South Africa in the way that he would like to. 616 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 10: I hate to say this about the American president, but 617 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 10: too often we see that there's some kind of a 618 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 10: grift that's involved with pronouncements around national security and foreign policy. 619 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 10: It's the case here too, I believe. 620 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 5: Well, there's another foreign policy issue though, that the US 621 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 5: seems to take particular exception with when it comes to 622 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 5: South Africa, and that's South Africa leading the charge in 623 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 5: the International Court of Justice against Israel claiming that Israel 624 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 5: is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. That was among 625 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 5: the reasons that the Secretary of State Marco Rubio, in 626 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 5: testimony yesterday on Capitol Hill, suggested President Trump won't be 627 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 5: attending the g twenty summit in November in South Africa, 628 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,479 Speaker 5: though he didn't necessarily give us a firm answer on 629 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 5: that in the Oval Office, Is that policy around Israel 630 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 5: reconcilable between these two countries, mister ambassador. 631 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 10: I so appreciate that question from you, and I really 632 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 10: wish that that dominated the dialogue today and the Oval 633 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 10: Office that in trade instead of this ridiculous rules around 634 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 10: white genocide. Let's be really clearer, South Africa has had 635 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 10: a long standing relationship with elements of the Palestinian leadership 636 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 10: Palestinian civil society. No surprise to anyone that following October seventh, 637 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 10: after South Africa appropriately denounced Hamas appropriately talked about South 638 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 10: Africa's right to exist and to defend itself, that then 639 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 10: in turn took up a defense of Palace Indians when 640 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 10: they saw collective punishment being taken upon tens of thousands 641 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 10: of innocent Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. So 642 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 10: that should not have surprised anyone if you know about 643 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 10: South Africa's history and record as it relates to Palestinians 644 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 10: and global human rights. So now Marco Rubio and Donald Trump, 645 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 10: two actors who have not spoken out about the collective 646 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 10: punishment in Gaza. Donald Trump, a president of the United 647 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 10: States who said that we should clear all the Palestinians 648 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 10: out of Gaza and turned into some kind of like 649 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 10: beachfront property. No concern for that. He's now suddenly talking 650 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 10: about genocide, but not in a context anywhere else in 651 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 10: the world. He defends Putin's encouragion against innocent Ukrainians. He 652 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 10: says nothing to speak up about what's happening to Palestinians 653 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 10: every single day where that Yawho is redoubling down on 654 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 10: his occupation and bobbing in Gaza. And now he's singling 655 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 10: out white Africaners who have been who have been ginned 656 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 10: up for him by fringe elements of his movements. I 657 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 10: has victims of genocide. The hypocrisy is overwhelming here. 658 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 2: So this is a president of the United States, in 659 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,959 Speaker 2: your view, whose view has been corrupted by Elon musk. 660 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 10: I never thought I would live to see the day 661 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 10: where a president of the United States would be sighting 662 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 10: with Vladimir Putent against an innocent sovereign nation that has 663 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 10: been invaded and surfacing myth myth about genocide in one 664 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 10: country in order to help the business interests of one 665 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 10: of his principal supporters, who spent in excess of two 666 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 10: hundred and fifty million dollars on his election. It's an 667 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 10: extraordinary thing. We have something in the United States called 668 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 10: the Foreign correp Practices Act, and I think that our 669 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 10: responsible Congress would be looking thoroughly at these circumstances. 670 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 5: Ambassador, we just have a minute left here. But given 671 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 5: everything we've just discussed and the evident tension between the 672 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 5: US and South Africa, do you have hope a trade 673 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 5: agreement between the two can be reached, Knowing at the 674 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 5: end of the ninety day period of thirty percent reciprocal 675 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 5: tariff could be put into place once again. 676 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 10: I'm never hopeful. The US and South Africa have had 677 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 10: challenges in the relationship before. I remember being a young 678 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 10: activist protesting against the resistance of the Reagan administration to 679 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 10: lay sanctions against South Africa. We overcame that there is 680 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 10: bipartisan support for the partnership between the US and South 681 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 10: Africa on trade and on healthcare relief as well. So 682 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 10: I think that there are responsible Republicans in the Center 683 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 10: and the House who understand the importance of the African 684 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 10: Growth and Opportunity Act. Both for security and for economic growth, 685 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 10: and they'll increase the pressure to get to some resolution 686 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 10: of these charges and of these challenges. 687 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 5: All right, Ambassador, we really appreciate you joining us here 688 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 5: on Balance of Power. Former Ambassador to South Africa during 689 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 5: the Obama administration. Patrick Gaspard, now distinguish Senior Fellow at 690 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 5: the Center for American Progress. 691 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 692 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 693 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 694 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at 695 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com.