Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The
Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist.
Speaker 2: Uh. These are some of.
Speaker 1: Our favorite segments from this week, all edited together into
Speaker 1: one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah.
Speaker 1: So, without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist. Well Miles,
Speaker 1: we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat
Speaker 1: by an award winning staff writer for Slate whose work
Speaker 1: focuses on identity and religion, and who has been doing
Speaker 1: invaluable reporting on what is happening in Israel right now.
Speaker 1: He's appeared on CNN, n p R, most importantly this show,
Speaker 1: He's been featured in The New York Post, adwe Awker,
Speaker 1: the Huffing Post. Please welcome back to the show. Amen,
Speaker 1: it's my brother.
Speaker 2: What's happening? Welcome salam Bro mmmmmmmmmm, I know it's I know, man,
Speaker 2: I know, we were just talking. I was like, I
Speaker 2: was like, it's been a minute, and I was like,
Speaker 2: we got to have you back, and I shit, is
Speaker 2: so fucking horrible wherever you look. And I know, with
Speaker 2: the work that you do, having such proximity to what's
Speaker 2: happening in Gaza and the West Bank and everything, I know,
Speaker 2: it's very difficult. So like, honestly, I really we really
Speaker 2: appreciate it coming on because it's not easy.
Speaker 3: But I'm really glad you guys aren't afraid to talk
Speaker 3: about it. I've been listening to the show and you
Speaker 3: guys have had some of the best critiques, responses and
Speaker 3: the most fiery rhetoric. So shouts out to you guys
Speaker 3: for for keeping it up and for inviting me for real.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's just you, yeah man. And and again
Speaker 2: I think it's also important, like we've had you know,
Speaker 2: like guest so on to speak about what's been going on.
Speaker 2: But I think also one thing we've talked about really
Speaker 2: consistently is how the media is portraying things and how
Speaker 2: consent is being manufactured for some really grizzly awful things.
Speaker 2: We want to call it genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, whatever,
Speaker 2: pick one. So I think, yeah, having your insight today
Speaker 2: is also going to be really invaluable for not just
Speaker 2: us but everybody listening. So again, man, I know it's
Speaker 2: thank you. Yeah, I know how difficult it is to
Speaker 2: talk about this stuff too, but honestly, we just yeah,
Speaker 2: we were glad to have you, man. We're glad to
Speaker 2: have I've got it. I've got one.
Speaker 3: Check, I've got one in the chamber already, So just
Speaker 3: let me know. First of all, let me answer your
Speaker 3: first question. I condemned Hamas. Yeah, okay, okay, uh huh
Speaker 3: oh good. I'm glad you saw that in the dock.
Speaker 3: But does he condemn Hamas?
Speaker 2: But to condemn them? Okay. Now, it's a.
Speaker 1: Weird because it sounds like I'm coming back and like
Speaker 1: saying that is a response.
Speaker 4: But that was the first thing written in the dock.
Speaker 1: But do you, sir? However, I'm sorry I haven't said
Speaker 1: anything yet. However, do you, sir, condemn ham what's new
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 2: Crazy?
Speaker 3: It's been crazy watching It's been crazy watching the news because,
Speaker 3: you know, the contrary to what most people say, I
Speaker 3: think we still are in the golden age of media.
Speaker 3: There are still there are so many amazing reporters who
Speaker 3: are doing such amazing work. It's just incredible the kind
Speaker 3: of work that's coming out right now. However, at the
Speaker 3: same time, there's some of the worst work. But anyways,
Speaker 3: what I'm trying to say is that it's people who
Speaker 3: are working journalism now know the game. They know how
Speaker 3: to keep their skepticism. They know how to draw out
Speaker 3: the story in an interesting way. What I can't understand
Speaker 3: is how when it comes to just this one thing,
Speaker 3: whenever it comes to Palestine, everybody forgets all their training.
Speaker 3: It's like we're starting from scratch just now. It just
Speaker 3: drives me nuts seeing so many people make so many mistakes,
Speaker 3: taking the Israeli militaries narrative as fact and casting doubt
Speaker 3: and shadow into anything on the like on the other side,
Speaker 3: regardless of who it's coming from, which to me is like,
Speaker 3: you guys, see what you're doing, right, but you see
Speaker 3: it everywhere and it's been driving me nuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it a mistake at that? Like is it
Speaker 1: or is it just kind of their marching orders and
Speaker 1: what they think they have to do like at this point,
Speaker 1: you know, But yeah, it's a fucking nightmare out there.
Speaker 2: Sarah. What is something from your search history that's revealing
Speaker 2: about who you are?
Speaker 5: I was doing a deep dive on Suzanne Summers today, Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: And I don't know you all are probably too young
Speaker 5: to remember Three's Company, but it was.
Speaker 2: Hey about it. I agree.
Speaker 6: I agree with the sentiment.
Speaker 5: Jack Tripper was my first first celebrity crush. Oh John Ritter, Yeah,
Speaker 5: and anyway, Suzanne Summers she recently died. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 5: she died I think a week ago, or no, a
Speaker 5: month ago. She died a month ago, October fifteenth. She
Speaker 5: died anyway, So she wrote twenty five books. Did you
Speaker 5: know that?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 2: Wow? I mean I think my knowledge of her went
Speaker 2: from obviously there's an agam do they'll be waiting for you.
Speaker 2: Like I was old enough to watch Three's Company reruns,
Speaker 2: and then I was like, oh, and then you became
Speaker 2: the thigh Master lady. Right, and those are kind of
Speaker 2: the two like pinnacle or like big standout moments in
Speaker 2: my elder millennial brain.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: I didn't know she was a prolific author.
Speaker 5: She wrote twenty five books. She Leftree's Company and didn't
Speaker 5: talk to John Ridder for twenty years because she kind
Speaker 5: of ruined the show because she wanted to be paid
Speaker 5: as much as he was being paid on the show
Speaker 5: for like the fourth season or fifth season. And then
Speaker 5: she had like a follow up sitcom that like called
Speaker 5: She's the Sheriff that just was rated forty fourth of
Speaker 5: the fifty worst shows ever made. But then she came
Speaker 5: back and she was the mom on Step by Step
Speaker 5: or one of those like, you know, their Friday whatever shows.
Speaker 5: And she was married to her husband for fifty five
Speaker 5: years and he's still alive. He's ten years older and
Speaker 5: he's still alive. And they had this like really explosive
Speaker 5: sex life like into like their seventies, Like they were
Speaker 5: having sex multiple times a day. And I'm like, I
Speaker 5: just I found out a lot about Suzanne Summers.
Speaker 2: That's yeah. I mean she always had a bit of,
Speaker 2: you know, sex appeal to her, so I guess it
Speaker 2: doesn't quite strike me as surprising, but yeah, it's good
Speaker 2: to have like goals to be like you can have
Speaker 2: sex multiple times a day in your seventies.
Speaker 4: Truly to your body break.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, Like were her books like sort of memoirs
Speaker 2: or was she also like was she getting into like
Speaker 2: kind of interesting niche stuff.
Speaker 5: Her first book was a book of poetry, and the
Speaker 5: first time she did Late Night was talking about her poetry,
Speaker 5: her book of poetry, and in the book of poetry
Speaker 5: is about touch and how important it is to touch people.
Speaker 5: And she got like Johnny Carson and edwam Manta hug
Speaker 5: each other because they never She's like, you guys never
Speaker 5: touch each other, and like they touched each other for
Speaker 5: like the first time. It was like really funny. And
Speaker 5: then she wrote a few memoirs and she wrote like
Speaker 5: self help books. She had some weird medical theories that
Speaker 5: were like questionable.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm just reading one right now that she
Speaker 2: thinks fluoride may have caused Matt shootings, right, or stuff
Speaker 2: in households. Okay, you know we can't. We can't bath
Speaker 2: fear reviewed. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but she did get breast cancer twenty two years ago,
Speaker 5: and very aggressive breast cancer, and she survived for twenty
Speaker 5: two years, so you know it worked. Maybe it works
Speaker 5: for her, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Wow, Suzanne, you know what a legend?
Speaker 2: What a legend? Were you a family or something?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: No, go ahead, what were you going to say? Do
Speaker 2: you want to know what I was? Yeah, you're gonna
Speaker 2: shame yourself in front of everyone. Go ahead, I'm not
Speaker 2: shaming myself. I'm telling you a real story is that
Speaker 2: I knew that she was a prolific writer because in
Speaker 2: school and like elementary school used to do something called
Speaker 2: summer's reading, where each summer we would read Suzanne summer
Speaker 2: books exclusively. Grid So whatever you were going to say,
Speaker 2: now you can say it.
Speaker 5: Wow, are hysterical, and I hope that you will start
Speaker 5: start a movement across elementary schools. I think summer reading
Speaker 5: needs to be a thing now.
Speaker 2: Summer Yeah, absolutely. You have all these kids talking about like,
Speaker 2: is there a floor ride in our water? Teacher, we
Speaker 2: need to talk about this. I read something very interesting.
Speaker 5: I'm never gonna brush my teeth again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, damn you, Summers. I don't even know what. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was gonna say. Blake, you
Speaker 2: completely neuralized me with that, with that amazing top tier joke, Jackie,
Speaker 2: what's something you think is overrated?
Speaker 8: Okay, so this is gonna split the room. And I'm
Speaker 8: a little nervous to say this out loud, but Killers
Speaker 8: of the Flower.
Speaker 2: Moon, Okay, go ahead. Yeah. I don't know if you guys.
Speaker 9: Have you guys seen it yet?
Speaker 2: By the way, I have not. No, I've I've been
Speaker 2: actually wait, i've. When I saw it, I was like,
Speaker 2: let me start seeing some First Nations indigenous people comment
Speaker 2: on it, because I can definitely see the Scorsese vibes
Speaker 2: and people are like, oh my god, this white guy,
Speaker 2: what did he go there, I'm like, who the fuck's
Speaker 2: being centered in the one I saw? Whoever the language
Speaker 2: consultant was on the red carpet started dropping some knowledge,
Speaker 2: but not fully you know, fucking shit up. I was like, okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is this is obviously going to be flawed in
Speaker 2: some level. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 8: So, just like a bit of background, I actually worked
Speaker 8: for the Osage Nation back in my urban planning days.
Speaker 8: Like I'm focused more on comedy now, but I worked
Speaker 8: as an urban planner. I have a master's in that,
Speaker 8: and I was working out there, and so I got
Speaker 8: a chance to see this story come to life in
Speaker 8: the community and got a chance to like really understand
Speaker 8: that this is still very much an open wound, still
Speaker 8: very much a very tragic, awful thing that's happened to
Speaker 8: the community. And so I knew once they started announcing like, oh,
Speaker 8: Martin Scorsese's going to do this and Leonardo Kapper.
Speaker 9: I was like, oh, how are they?
Speaker 8: I was like, let's hope they're handling it with reverence
Speaker 8: because this is a big one. And so I was
Speaker 8: already just kind of curious how it was all going
Speaker 8: to play out. But I will say they did consult
Speaker 8: left and right with community, and so that's huge, the
Speaker 8: fact that they were working with the tribe and working
Speaker 8: with tribal members just to put the story together. But
Speaker 8: that said, it is about the reign of terror and
Speaker 8: murder of O Sage people and for their head rights.
Speaker 8: A head right essentially is basically it's oil money. And
Speaker 8: so people were coming in and so I guess there's
Speaker 8: a lot of rampant violence essentially, and going in and
Speaker 8: watching three and a half hours of that as a
Speaker 8: native person not the business for me. I was angry.
Speaker 8: I was very frustrated. And I will say, Leonardo DiCaprio's character,
Speaker 8: this is actually the hot take you were talking about
Speaker 8: on the red carpet with the Osage Consultant. I want
Speaker 8: to pull his name up in a second, because we
Speaker 8: got to give him credit for what he said. But
Speaker 8: it just so much centered Leonardo DiCaprio's character, and we
Speaker 8: could see him wrestling with what he was doing, which
Speaker 8: was part of a murder plot centered on this one
Speaker 8: very specific family, and I'm like, why are we giving
Speaker 8: him this multi dimensional approach? Yes, his name's Christopher Cote
Speaker 8: and that's the Osage consultant, and I just felt like
Speaker 8: it gave him a lot of texture, and I'm like,
Speaker 8: what about the Native people in this?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 9: And I didn't.
Speaker 8: I would love to see Molly's character have a little
Speaker 8: bit more nuance and and I just I wanted something different.
Speaker 8: But again, I will say, I do think it's important
Speaker 8: to watch the film because there's a lot of people
Speaker 8: who never heard about the story, who know nothing about it.
Speaker 8: And this was the first ever FBI investigation, you know
Speaker 8: what I mean, So like this exactly. And so I
Speaker 8: think that the acting is amazing. It's it's amazing acting.
Speaker 8: The set, like the set design, like you're in there,
Speaker 8: they got flies going around, and I'm like in the theater,
Speaker 8: like you know, like they really put you in it, right,
Speaker 8: they put you in it. And so I really think
Speaker 8: that's that's great and lovely and wonderful. But yeah, it
Speaker 8: was just really hard for me to sit there and
Speaker 8: watch three and a half hours of violence against state
Speaker 8: of people. And so but here's the ultimate thing. So
Speaker 8: we're putting a spotlight on something that happened a long
Speaker 8: time ago, lots of people stealing head rights and from
Speaker 8: tribal peoples.
Speaker 9: But like, what do we do next? Like what comes
Speaker 9: after this?
Speaker 8: And I think that's the question that I have, and
Speaker 8: that's not necessarily a question for the tribe or the
Speaker 8: question for the film crew, but like Leo made a
Speaker 8: fat check on this one. Does he contribute some of
Speaker 8: that back to the community so they can get their
Speaker 8: head rights and lands back? I mean, like, that's that's
Speaker 8: what I'm just like, I want to see what happens next.
Speaker 8: And I hate to say it, but I don't know
Speaker 8: if this is gonna, you know, be a catalyst for
Speaker 8: other bigger questions about lots of people, because this is
Speaker 8: this is one thing that we know about. This is
Speaker 8: one investigation, but there was all kind of crazy shit
Speaker 8: happening out there at that time, with people coming in
Speaker 8: and stealing lands and stealing head rights directly from tribal
Speaker 8: members and in scrupulous ways and violent ways. So anyway,
Speaker 8: that's where I'm like, I think, as a piece, it's
Speaker 8: important for people to have watched it, But if your.
Speaker 9: Native, like, take your time. You don't need to see
Speaker 9: it right away.
Speaker 8: Schedule a therapy session in advance and after, you know,
Speaker 8: like you just got to really be there to support
Speaker 8: yourself because it's a heavy one.
Speaker 9: It's so heavy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are those films that are made for audiences
Speaker 2: that like, You're like, that's important for them, understand, But
Speaker 2: if you come from that community, I mean, it's like
Speaker 2: that's why man, like Twelve Years of Slave and certain
Speaker 2: movies like that. I'm like, bro, I mean like, if
Speaker 2: you need to see it, go ahead. Like I don't need.
Speaker 2: I don't need to be convinced or know even more
Speaker 2: or a depiction of it. But I get it because everyone,
Speaker 2: you know, we grapple with our own personal histories in
Speaker 2: our own ways. But yeah, if like Leonardo DiCaprio, I
Speaker 2: and out here on some like land back shit, then
Speaker 2: what's up? You know what I mean?
Speaker 10: Yeah, that was my main concern when starting to see
Speaker 10: the movie being promoted. You know, the audience reaction of
Speaker 10: the trailers was immediately, wow, that looks beautiful, Wow, that
Speaker 10: looks great. And I saw Martin Scorsese, I didn't know
Speaker 10: much about the film, and then I was like, this
Speaker 10: seems like this could be very delicate and hard to
Speaker 10: pull off for a white man in his eighties.
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 10: And I and the entire time as I was hearing
Speaker 10: the reaction to the film and how the hype build up,
Speaker 10: I was like, why isn't there any criticism?
Speaker 2: I was like, is it really that good?
Speaker 10: Did he really handle it that carefully and with that
Speaker 10: much depth and standing? And I'm hearing that it's like
Speaker 10: kind of but not as much as you'd hope. Is
Speaker 10: that I don't want to put words in your mouth, Jackie?
Speaker 2: Is that I mean? I guess, Oh, sorry, go ahead, No,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying. Or it feels like it's just inherently
Speaker 2: hard to make a movie like this, yeah and pull
Speaker 2: it off in the way that you need to, like
Speaker 2: it's yeah, right, yeah, but so does that?
Speaker 10: I guess my I guess my misgiving with is like
Speaker 10: should was he the best person to do it?
Speaker 2: Or?
Speaker 10: I guess because my whole, my whole reaction to it
Speaker 10: when I first saw I was like, really, Martin Scorsese
Speaker 10: and that that was That was when I guess. I
Speaker 10: was like the Irishman fine, but this felt that different
Speaker 10: for me, and I was like, I wasn't as excited
Speaker 10: as I thought the hype was, and I was questioning,
Speaker 10: like why I wasn't getting there right?
Speaker 9: I mean?
Speaker 8: So, so it's actually based on a book called Killers
Speaker 8: of the Flower Moon by David Grant, who's a non
Speaker 8: native person who writes about the Osage murders and the
Speaker 8: birth of the FBI. But so so oh yeah, so
Speaker 8: this essentially is a film based off of the book.
Speaker 8: So I think in that way a lot of I
Speaker 8: didn't read the book, I'll tell you that, But again,
Speaker 8: I'm not like jumping into reading about these things myself.
Speaker 8: But I have quite a few friends who read it
Speaker 8: and they were like, okay, like it was definitely a
Speaker 8: little bit more mystery oriented in the book, according to
Speaker 8: you know, my friend's assessment of reading it. But yeah,
Speaker 8: they were like, yeah, I think it did sort of
Speaker 8: a good job of laying out what happened in the book.
Speaker 8: But at the same time, this, like I said, this
Speaker 8: is a very heavy topic for this very real community
Speaker 8: that's living with this right now. And so I think
Speaker 8: that's the piece of it where I don't know if
Speaker 8: I'm just naive, but I was like, look, this is
Speaker 8: this is Hollywood. We can we have some creative license.
Speaker 8: Like I thought that the murders might be like not
Speaker 8: so in your face, Like I felt like maybe, and
Speaker 8: I felt like maybe there's some creative interpretation of what
Speaker 8: happened to inject more agency and power into the native perspective,
Speaker 8: because that's what I would do if I had.
Speaker 9: An opportunity to do it right, I'd be.
Speaker 8: Like, all right, here's a story, but here's a story
Speaker 8: I want to tell about this story, you know, And
Speaker 8: so I think, like I guess I was silly to
Speaker 8: think maybe it wouldn't be so in your face. And
Speaker 8: then the opening scene, like a couple of moments into
Speaker 8: the opening scene, we see our first murder, and I'm like, aha,
Speaker 8: it was just so real and it was like literally
Speaker 8: the people were gasping in the audience.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, you know, and so you said that, yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so but I get it, like I think probably,
Speaker 8: And I haven't read any of their sort of the film,
Speaker 8: the directors, and I haven't read any of what they've
Speaker 8: said in response to any of some of the criticism
Speaker 8: that's coming out, but I'm sure they're like, we want
Speaker 8: it to be real, we want it to be in
Speaker 8: your face because we don't want to hide the horrors
Speaker 8: of what this was simultaneously.
Speaker 9: If that's your goal, then I'm gonna recommend dat if people.
Speaker 2: Do not watch.
Speaker 8: You know, anyone who's been from a community that has
Speaker 8: been targeted and oppressed in a very violent, awful way.
Speaker 8: That's where I'm like, ooh, I I just just be prepared, basically.
Speaker 8: And Lily Gladstone, who's the amazing actor who plays Molly,
Speaker 8: she even said because unfortunately, because of SAG and because
Speaker 8: of the SAG after strike, wasn't even able to promote
Speaker 8: or say much about it. And so finally once the
Speaker 8: strike was lifted and all that, Lily came forward and said, like,
Speaker 8: please take care of yourselves because this is a heavy one.
Speaker 8: And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of the vibe we
Speaker 8: should have gone in with. But unfortunately, because of the strike,
Speaker 8: no one was able to say much, you know. So
Speaker 8: and I watched it like I had an advanced screening
Speaker 8: and so like I saw it with a lot of
Speaker 8: people like well before it came out, and so you know. Anyway,
Speaker 8: So also I think it's a little overrated, and I
Speaker 8: do think that people who don't know about the story
Speaker 8: should absolutely watch it. And again, amazing acting. And I
Speaker 8: do hope that Lily Gladstone gets a knom like she
Speaker 8: has to, like she fucking killed it, and she people
Speaker 8: might recognize her from Reservation Dogs. She plays the anti
Speaker 8: who's in prison, so and I can't remember her name
Speaker 8: right now. I'm sorry, but anyway, killer acting, a lot
Speaker 8: of amazing acting.
Speaker 2: It was a good nuanced take. I like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, you just split the room because we didn't
Speaker 2: see it.
Speaker 8: I want you guys to watch it, and we got
Speaker 8: a degree. I want to watch it, please, and let's
Speaker 8: debrief this.
Speaker 10: You need to watch it. Absolutely. I was on the fence.
Speaker 10: And now the fact that you were like, no, it's
Speaker 10: it's essential. You're just gonna need to take care of yourself.
Speaker 10: That that yeah, over the edge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's hard I think in general, Yeah, like
Speaker 2: to see just that kind of untethered violence towards marginalized people,
Speaker 2: that is that goes unpunished. It's it's hard to watch
Speaker 2: that over and over and over.
Speaker 8: And then it's like and then Native women on top
Speaker 8: of that, like we already have, like folks are familiar
Speaker 8: with mm I W murdered Indigenous women, so this is
Speaker 8: nothing new and it's just really hard to stomach. And
Speaker 8: you know, and also it's three and a half hours long,
Speaker 8: so do not drink anything before you go in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or wear a diaper, you know, yeah, you gotta do.
Speaker 9: You know, there's no there's no intermission, it's just NonStop.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is something you think is underrated?
Speaker 7: I guess I'm respecting other people's opinions. Like if again,
Speaker 7: at the sake of sounding corny, I'm just like, I
Speaker 7: think I'm so overwhelmed with the news right now and
Speaker 7: like watching people that I've known for a long time
Speaker 7: and realizing that their belief system is rooted in straight
Speaker 7: up ignorance, you know, like straight up superiority, right, you know,
Speaker 7: and people aren't just allowed to be and you know
Speaker 7: that can also the thing I hate about like vague
Speaker 7: inspirational anything inspirational quotes is that they can be used
Speaker 7: by anyone. Sure, that's right, because even if I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 7: it's respecting people's opinions, people will be like, well, why
Speaker 7: don't you respect us bioness opinions? Like that is just
Speaker 7: white supremacy. Can't the fucked here? I do not respect
Speaker 7: anybody who is into that ship. So yeah, I guess
Speaker 7: just you know, what what are we doing?
Speaker 4: Guys?
Speaker 7: That's where I'm asking, That's what's that's my underwrite or
Speaker 7: over what did you ask me?
Speaker 2: What are we doing? I know it feels like the
Speaker 2: Twilight Zone. Are you all really advocating for ethnic cleansing?
Speaker 2: So casually yes they are, and you're like, god, damn,
Speaker 2: I don't know. And that's the thing. I'm really there
Speaker 2: are people who like, I'm really curious if this you know,
Speaker 2: right now, there's a lot of focus on like the
Speaker 2: hostage like when they when will they free the hostages? Sure,
Speaker 2: and seeing how that plays out, what happens after that
Speaker 2: is achieved, like what is going to be the next
Speaker 2: goalpost after that if it happens, Because I just feel
Speaker 2: like there's there's clearly, like you see people like there
Speaker 2: is that Israel Solidarity rally and that was really just
Speaker 2: a rally to maintain the status quo, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Just like we need to put visual pressure
Speaker 2: on this administration to not dare call for a ceasefire.
Speaker 2: Because even when Van Jones's whack ass was up there,
Speaker 2: like he tried to say something about piece, like people
Speaker 2: were starting to chant like no ceasefire and shit, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, what is where? I know what y'all not saying,
Speaker 2: but I'm curious what the rhetoric will be once we
Speaker 2: get past this point in time when and and tens
Speaker 2: of thousands of people are left dead. It's just h yeah,
Speaker 2: it's mind blowing. Like we've been every week. I feel
Speaker 2: like we're always saying some version of like I can
Speaker 2: honestly like I don't know where the fuck I'm at, Like.
Speaker 9: What what are we doing, y'all?
Speaker 2: What are we doing? And the people who are like
Speaker 2: out there, like you know, blocking the roads to raytheon
Speaker 2: and ship shall bless y'all, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like that's yes, this.
Speaker 7: Morning, the bay bridge is closed off, and that's should
Speaker 7: I not say this morning? Does that matter?
Speaker 2: Doesn't?
Speaker 9: Okay, God bless those people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody, all.
Speaker 4: Right, let's take a quick break and we'll come back
Speaker 4: and get into the news.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: We are, And since October seventh, we've been we've been
Speaker 1: talking about the perplexing way the media has been has
Speaker 1: been covering this, the discounting to the lives of Palastian people,
Speaker 1: innocent innocent Palestinian people and children, but just generally just
Speaker 1: the rules of engagement seem to have changed kind of
Speaker 1: in the in the mainstream media. But aiman you know,
Speaker 1: you are seeing seeing this happening, and you know, as
Speaker 1: a member of the media, like covering it. I'm just
Speaker 1: curious to get your perspective on like what what what
Speaker 1: has been happening? What are you seeing behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: And then like how is that affecting how we're hearing
Speaker 1: about or not hearing about what's happening in Israel?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Man, No, this is a media literacy is everything these days,
Speaker 3: because it's equally important to like create good journalism. Is
Speaker 3: it just for the audience to know how to read
Speaker 3: and interpret like good journalism? So what I mean is
Speaker 3: this right? I'm really really upset by the way that
Speaker 3: I have like younger so of my like my wife's
Speaker 3: siblings are like much younger than she is. So I
Speaker 3: have one that just graduated high school, another one who's
Speaker 3: in college, and you know, they get all of their
Speaker 3: news from social media. They only know what's going on
Speaker 3: through TikTok and through Instagram. And I feel like a
Speaker 3: lot of people don't really know how to distinguish between
Speaker 3: people just posting things opinion news clips of commentators from
Speaker 3: the actual journalism, which are like first hand accounts people
Speaker 3: on the ground doing journalism.
Speaker 2: And it's like.
Speaker 3: Equivocating between being like an activist talking about what's happening
Speaker 3: and being a journalist and trying to report the facts
Speaker 3: as they are has been driving me nuts. So there's
Speaker 3: two things happening when we think about how the media
Speaker 3: has been like covering this. On the one hand, I'm
Speaker 3: seeing so much misinformation and disinformation spreading like crazy z
Speaker 3: on social media. And because everybody's in their own little
Speaker 3: social media bubble, what people on either side or you know,
Speaker 3: and in this case there's a lot more than just
Speaker 3: two sides. But anybody who's consuming media on social media
Speaker 3: right now are getting just like this fire hose of information,
Speaker 3: and some of it's real and some of it's not,
Speaker 3: and some of it's made up, and some of it's
Speaker 3: like from ten years ago repackaged to look like it
Speaker 3: was just show yesterday, right. And so you have people
Speaker 3: who are Zionist and sympathetic with you know, the IDF
Speaker 3: and what they're doing right now to secure Israel who
Speaker 3: are like sharing these videos of like people in body
Speaker 3: bags who are wrapped in the white like we've been
Speaker 3: seeing a lot from Gaza who are getting up to
Speaker 3: check their phones, you know, because it's like actually a
Speaker 3: clip from a protest in Lebanon.
Speaker 2: You know, or something like that. But that clip is being.
Speaker 3: Repackaged and shared as you know, evidence of a mess
Speaker 3: making up casualties and that the IDEF is pure hearted
Speaker 3: and pure intention. But on the other end, there was
Speaker 3: a viral clip that went viral maybe two days ago
Speaker 3: that supposedly showed like Apache helicopters shooting Israelis who were
Speaker 3: fleeing from their lives when the MS came in on
Speaker 3: those paragliders at the at the music festival, which is
Speaker 3: also like you know, repackaged. I think it was from
Speaker 3: like the two or three days afterwards when that clip,
Speaker 3: when those clips were shot and published by the IDF
Speaker 3: showing their attack helicopters attacking militants who were trying to
Speaker 3: either flee or take more ground than in Israel. And
Speaker 3: so those are two examples.
Speaker 2: But they were being.
Speaker 4: Passage to say that this was Israel shooting, right.
Speaker 2: They were saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reason why the casualties numbers were so high
Speaker 3: is because the Israelis were also shooting everybody. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: there's also you know, I should also cavey out there.
Speaker 3: There is like a few kind there's a few eyewitness
Speaker 3: testimonies of survivors in the Kabbutz who talked about how
Speaker 3: they were when they were being taken hostage, that Israeli
Speaker 3: soldiers showed up and just started spring bullets and his
Speaker 3: own people. This is that when in his testimony you
Speaker 3: can read it about it on Harriet's But at the
Speaker 3: same time, the role that the journalist has to play
Speaker 3: is to find primary sources and report it out. And
Speaker 3: the way that so many people at prominent outlets that
Speaker 3: have a humongous responsibility and outside the responsibility to tell
Speaker 3: the truth in this particular war where information like this
Speaker 3: is kind of just going crazy. This flying over our
Speaker 3: heads has been catastrophic. A good example is right after
Speaker 3: the beginning of the war is the Palestinian ambassador for
Speaker 3: the PA for London, was for England, was being interviewed
Speaker 3: by the BBC and he just talked about how he
Speaker 3: lost like seven family members in an Israeli bombardment. And
Speaker 3: this guy, you can tell, was being super stoic. He
Speaker 3: looked like he was just crying because he just found
Speaker 3: this out and he's on the news ready to talk
Speaker 3: about what's happening, and the presenter asked him the condemned
Speaker 3: ha mess like immediately after he shared that he lost
Speaker 3: seven family members. Yea, And this callousness goes beyond what
Speaker 3: a reporter ought to do. You know, we should be
Speaker 3: asking people about what they see, what they feel, trying
Speaker 3: to get primary sources to tell us something about what's
Speaker 3: happening in front of them. Asking somebody who has a
Speaker 3: wealth of knowledge about being an ambassador for the PA,
Speaker 3: not ha Mess, which is PA's there. They run the
Speaker 3: West Bank, Hames Rise, the Gosam. This person is an
Speaker 3: ambassador for them, so he he's also lost family to
Speaker 3: the bombardoment. He's in a unique position to talk about
Speaker 3: what's happening from his perspective.
Speaker 2: But this person.
Speaker 3: Who was interviewing him, this journalist, was asking about something
Speaker 3: that he's disconnected to a and was trying to make
Speaker 3: a moral argument with this person, And that to me
Speaker 3: felt like, I don't know, I was disappointed. I was like,
Speaker 3: you know how to do this, Like this is your job.
Speaker 3: You don't have any problems doing this with any other subject.
Speaker 3: Why is it when we come to talking about Palestine
Speaker 3: and talking to Palestinians, we skip the part where we're
Speaker 3: supposed to interrogate how they're experiencing the world, and we
Speaker 3: skip to, well, how do we get that, how do
Speaker 3: we hold them accountable for what the other side is saying?
Speaker 3: You don't see that when it comes to those same
Speaker 3: people interviewing Israeli ambassadors or Israeli prime ministers. When they
Speaker 3: talk to their own people, they say, we are going
Speaker 3: to flatten Palestine, we are going to eradicate Hames and
Speaker 3: all of its supporters, and they use a lot of
Speaker 3: this genocidal rhetoric, and they talk about having a second Nekba.
Speaker 3: Ministers in the current Israeli government talk this way, but
Speaker 3: when they come on to do these interviews, they ask them, well,
Speaker 3: where were you on October seventh? How are you affected
Speaker 3: by this tragedy? Which are you know? I'm not here
Speaker 3: to browbeat these people for doing their job, because those
Speaker 3: are good questions to ask people who are going through
Speaker 3: this and that suffering is real. But where is that
Speaker 3: when we're talking to Palestinian sources? Just today, the New
Speaker 3: York Times put out and their incredible podcast, The Daily
Speaker 3: not as good as the dailies like Gus, but.
Speaker 2: You know, if you have extra time, you can probat artists.
Speaker 4: And a lot of people might think they can. First,
Speaker 4: we can't.
Speaker 3: First, thanks, I was gonna say I was gonna make
Speaker 3: that point, but you know they were. They did this
Speaker 3: whole episode where they talked to God, to gods and doctors,
Speaker 3: doctors who are in these hospitals who are operating, and
Speaker 3: the host asked one of them, well, the IDF is
Speaker 3: saying that Hamas is doing X y Z in.
Speaker 2: These hospitals, like what are you seeing?
Speaker 3: Which is like a good question to ask, But the
Speaker 3: people who are just being constantly asked to take these
Speaker 3: political arguments that one side is making in it and
Speaker 3: trying to rationalize them and trying to breathe air into
Speaker 3: them and give oxygen to them. The guy had a meltdown. Man,
Speaker 3: he freaked out. He was like, Yo, we are having
Speaker 3: to choose which kids die and which kids live. We
Speaker 3: don't have enough resources to give kids who need amputations
Speaker 3: any kind of anesthesia, so they are awake and while
Speaker 3: we're hacking off their body parts, like you know, the trauma.
Speaker 3: And this guy's voice when he was like, why the
Speaker 3: hell are you asking me about Hamez right now? Was
Speaker 3: I think was incredibly emblematic of the what we've done
Speaker 3: to these people, you know, by flattening them as being
Speaker 3: like this response to Hamez. These people are people, man,
Speaker 3: So I would love to see the media make a
Speaker 3: better effort at exercising just basic journalism by asking people
Speaker 3: about what they see and where they're at, versus trying
Speaker 3: to turn everything into a back and forth.
Speaker 2: Or its proa or they're propagandizing them in real time.
Speaker 3: You want to talk about like Hames, there's HAMESZ spokespeople
Speaker 3: who are giving interviews like you can do that piece
Speaker 3: if you want to talk to them and be like, well,
Speaker 3: we heard about you know, the fuel being withheld from
Speaker 3: x y Z. What do you have to say to that?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 3: But these people who are on the ground, these doctors
Speaker 3: who have to sleep in operating rooms, who can't leave
Speaker 3: because the flood of people who need help is is
Speaker 3: just constant. The people who have brought their own families
Speaker 3: to hide in these hospitals too. I mean, there are
Speaker 3: thousands of people in these hospitals and you can just
Speaker 3: imagine the chaos. By opening this window and talking to
Speaker 3: these people and just asking them about like Hames just
Speaker 3: it just drove me nuts, Like you would never see that.
Speaker 3: You would never see somebody talking to somebody hiding in
Speaker 3: their escape room in the Kibbutz, you know when that
Speaker 3: was happening, and if if the media were able to
Speaker 3: get them on the phone, you would never imagine them
Speaker 3: being like, well, what do you think about Natan? Yeah,
Speaker 3: who's saying the settlements are about.
Speaker 11: You know, the risk he's putting y'all at risk? Right,
Speaker 11: Because I feel like you're saying a lot of them
Speaker 11: would say, yeah, hell yes he is. Like you know
Speaker 11: a lot of people feel like Netya, who's policies are
Speaker 11: not popular, Like he's fucking incredibly far right and fascist,
Speaker 11: and like if they were willing to ask those fucking questions,
Speaker 11: I feel like that would also be well.
Speaker 2: It just kind of leaves it leaves out this not
Speaker 2: even elephant in the room. The biggest dimension of this
Speaker 2: is oppression. Yeah, And to just skirt by them, be like,
Speaker 2: well you condemn Hamas, right, Like, let's just keep let's
Speaker 2: let's let's keep reinforcing. Because I see this so much
Speaker 2: in the rhetoric of people who are defending what the
Speaker 2: IDF is doing in the Israeli government, of keeping the
Speaker 2: focus on Hamas, about being like free these people from
Speaker 2: Hamas and like that's what it is, and rather than
Speaker 2: really like widening out the focus here to really understand
Speaker 2: all the dimensions of it. Because to your point, like
Speaker 2: when someone is bringing up these facts that would that is,
Speaker 2: you know, meant to tell a very human story about
Speaker 2: Palestinian people. To to then bring it to what about
Speaker 2: hamas completely just takes the wind out of that take
Speaker 2: or or what the point someone's trying to make to
Speaker 2: just make it purely about right? Right? There is that,
Speaker 2: but what about this other thing that we can agree
Speaker 2: is bad? Let's talk about the bad thing, because I
Speaker 2: don't want to keep talking about how innocent people are
Speaker 2: being brutalized through no fault of their own. And I
Speaker 2: think that's that's also been really hard to watch too totally.
Speaker 3: And what drives me nuts is that these are like allegations,
Speaker 3: right there's been no proof put forth by the Israeli government,
Speaker 3: but there's just not enough scrutiny to sort of just say, okay, well,
Speaker 3: the Israeli government is saying this is that true? Like
Speaker 3: we we almost I've seen too many media outlets and
Speaker 3: journalists skipping that step and going straight to okay, well,
Speaker 3: we need to now ask the other side with this
Speaker 3: allegation is being made of to defend themselves for it.
Speaker 3: When this out there, I mean, we need to see
Speaker 3: proof man before before anything else. This this idea about copaganda, right,
Speaker 3: this idea that it came about after the popular Black
Speaker 3: Lives Matter uprisings across the country, after George Floyd was killed,
Speaker 3: where it was obvious that the police when they issue statements,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people have suddenly realized that
Speaker 3: they have they are incentivized to lie, and that you
Speaker 3: really that first like that first account that they gave was, well,
Speaker 3: he was on drugs and he was attacking us, and
Speaker 3: you know, he was fighting back and all this stuff
Speaker 3: that after you see the clips, you know it's not
Speaker 3: even close to being true, and you know, this is
Speaker 3: I feel like there's overlaps here. And I think part
Speaker 3: of the lesson that we learned there in journalism and
Speaker 3: in people who are consuming media is that, you know,
Speaker 3: the police are incentivized to protect their own skin. I
Speaker 3: wish I could see more of that when we're looking
Speaker 3: about Palestine. This idea that Israel has a long track record,
Speaker 3: not as Israel government. I gotta be specific, because israelis
Speaker 3: are as diverse as anyplace else in the world. They
Speaker 3: Israeli government has a long track record of lying. We
Speaker 3: saw when they killed the journalist true Uckiley. We saw
Speaker 3: it when they killed those four boys, those four preteens
Speaker 3: on the beach with warship. We saw that with There's
Speaker 3: like so many examples man of like them denying that
Speaker 3: they did something when they're doing it. So I would
Speaker 3: love to see the same amount of scrutiny being like, well,
Speaker 3: you're making these claims, we need to see proof or
Speaker 3: we need to hold out to see like what everybody
Speaker 3: else is saying. Right, Uh, yeah, it feels like we're
Speaker 3: so eager to take this narrative and put it out.
Speaker 2: Is there like a dimension because like we talk about
Speaker 2: this all the time, like how especially in American media,
Speaker 2: like there's people can't like grapple with white supremacy or
Speaker 2: systemic oppression, and journalists can't. And a lot of people
Speaker 2: talk about how like what it what it takes to
Speaker 2: actually get to a certain newsroom and the and like
Speaker 2: what the culture is of a specific outlet that sort
Speaker 2: of self filters in a way that you're only going
Speaker 2: to get people who are kind of know how to
Speaker 2: like read from the same book when that time comes.
Speaker 2: Are you like do you see it as a dimension
Speaker 2: of just sort of like these ingrained sort of like
Speaker 2: just the lack of American curiosity about like honestly reporting
Speaker 2: about imperialism or is it like other you know, because
Speaker 2: we see also like these like McCarthy I type activities
Speaker 2: that are happening where people if they deign to speak
Speaker 2: out about what's happening that they are people are coming
Speaker 2: for their careers and things like that. How do you
Speaker 2: see like what like is it bad habits, is it
Speaker 2: external factors? Is it a combination of things? Like how
Speaker 2: do you kind of see like the environment that people
Speaker 2: are operating in when they just take the word of
Speaker 2: an IDF command or be like Okay that's what they said.
Speaker 2: Okay print that without evidence and we'll just run to that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean it breaks my fucking heart.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 3: I've been trying to to like not cry all day
Speaker 3: and I'm like fighting it back now because you're what
Speaker 3: you said about the lack of curiosity. Really it like
Speaker 3: hit something right on my heart, dude, because that's what
Speaker 3: it is. It is, man, It's it's this basic, this
Speaker 3: basic reflex that's maybe inside me because I have Arab
Speaker 3: heritage or I don't know what it is, man, but like,
Speaker 3: I cannot, for the life of me understand why there's
Speaker 3: not this curiosity where people are just satisfied with it,
Speaker 3: being like it's a religious war and so they're responding
Speaker 3: to their religion, and so it makes sense that they
Speaker 3: want to eliminate just Jewish people, and they use that
Speaker 3: as a way to just justify making claims like what's
Speaker 3: made what's on the on the Congress floor recently, that
Speaker 3: there is no such thing as a Palestinian.
Speaker 2: Civilian, right, right.
Speaker 3: It's like when the Israeli government says that we're going
Speaker 3: to punish the people who are giving out candy or
Speaker 3: giving candy or like the people they elected hamas, and
Speaker 3: it's like, where's the curiosity to say, Okay, what are
Speaker 3: the polls saying? Right, Because if you look for the
Speaker 3: polls like you would for any other community when you're
Speaker 3: trying to understand like what this community is experiencing or
Speaker 3: how they feel, there are polls.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: People go and they do studies about this stuff. Godz
Speaker 3: has been under seage for like the greater part of
Speaker 3: the last twenty years. This has been like a you know,
Speaker 3: the curiosity of academics you know people who are going
Speaker 3: in and finding out, oh, actually more than seventy percent
Speaker 3: of the people in Gaza when they were asked if
Speaker 3: peace was option where they want to live in peace
Speaker 3: with Israel's their neighbors and seventy five I don't know
Speaker 3: the exact number, more than seventy percent. We're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we want peace, but you almost don't. You don't even
Speaker 3: see that number quoted anywhere because there's no curiosity, there's
Speaker 3: no thought experiment of like, well are these people like us?
Speaker 3: Where there were responding to many different things, there's this
Speaker 3: idea that is really prevalent. I think among a lot
Speaker 3: of writers and journalists that the issue is that there's
Speaker 3: an ideological conflict, right, that if only each side could
Speaker 3: just get along, then this problem would get solved. Right,
Speaker 3: that there are actual partners for peace on either end
Speaker 3: of this that are being usurped by these radical ideological groups.
Speaker 3: This is not the case here, man, This is not
Speaker 3: the case. What you said about the the imbalance of
Speaker 3: power here is everything. Because I think this really cuts
Speaker 3: through to how so many people who are sympathetic with
Speaker 3: the Palestinian cause actually feel about this, and it drives
Speaker 3: me nuts seeing some of these protests being described, the
Speaker 3: protests that we've seen across the country, across the world.
Speaker 3: I think London just had the biggest protest ever in
Speaker 3: its history and it was from Palestine. This being condensed
Speaker 3: as it being like a pro Hamas rally or an
Speaker 3: anti Israel rally. You know, the idea that these people
Speaker 3: could just be flattened to like this, responding to this
Speaker 3: one part of this conflict drives me nuts. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: where's the curiosity? You mean, said the reporter. Talk to
Speaker 3: these people, find out what they're saying. They're filming themselves.
Speaker 3: They're telling you what they're saying, the same thing with
Speaker 3: from the River to the sea, Palestine will be free.
Speaker 3: The congresswoman Rashida Tlay just got censured by her own
Speaker 3: colleagues on the Democratic side, who helped the obviously bad
Speaker 3: faith right wing use that rallying cry to punish her. Now,
Speaker 3: none of the reporting I've seen makes context of what
Speaker 3: she was actually saying in the speech where she said
Speaker 3: that she wants peace for everybody. They just took the
Speaker 3: right wings word for it that she was calling for genocide.
Speaker 3: She was calling for genocide, man.
Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, exactly saying freedom. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And also the speech where did she give it? Where's
Speaker 3: the curiosity?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Where did she give the speech? She gave it a
Speaker 3: Jewish voices for peace rally?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Come on, Like this is basic journalism one oh one
Speaker 3: that you will see in every context except for this,
Speaker 3: And it makes me want to tear my eye out.
Speaker 2: Man, it's so nut. I mean, this is what's so
Speaker 2: difficult to watch too after going through the summer of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty and understanding how oppression affects people, and like
Speaker 2: they were doing this, Like this is why, like I'm
Speaker 2: so cynical about how our media operates, because it's operating
Speaker 2: not even to inform people. It's there to just preserve
Speaker 2: these system of oppression under like, because these questions that
Speaker 2: are asked like similar to like in twenty twenty, you
Speaker 2: bear like every now and then you'd hear some reporter
Speaker 2: as somebody who's at a protest, why they're there, Like
Speaker 2: everything was always like and we're here with the police. Start,
Speaker 2: we're here with you know, Sheriff Villanueva who's telling us
Speaker 2: about what is happening in Los Angeles and getting this
Speaker 2: perspective that is meant to just like to your point,
Speaker 2: flatten this movement into like a very easy to digest,
Speaker 2: like these people just like want chaos or something, and
Speaker 2: it's not that great of a thing. Slowly, I feel
Speaker 2: like those things changed because I think there are enough
Speaker 2: people in America to kind of begin to grapple with
Speaker 2: that somewhat. But this also just feels so disgusting and
Speaker 2: uncomfortable to watch because it really pulls out just the
Speaker 2: inherent Islamophobia that exists in this country too, because I
Speaker 2: feel like it's so eat a lot of people just
Speaker 2: want to reflexively just cast people who, like in Palestine
Speaker 2: is being like, yeah, well, you know, like they voted
Speaker 2: for Hamas, so that means they're bad and it's that simple.
Speaker 2: And that really is so difficult to have to sit
Speaker 2: through because to your point, this is all happening while
Speaker 2: innocent people are suffering under that, and there's many people
Speaker 2: want to say, well, they're voting for they voted for Hamas, well,
Speaker 2: then what's happening in the West Bank because Hamas is
Speaker 2: not in power in the West Bank, the PA is
Speaker 2: you know, and like, and so where is that argument now,
Speaker 2: because we're only seeing increased violence there as well. But
Speaker 2: you know it the again, it's always this lack of
Speaker 2: humanity that's extended to these people in such a like
Speaker 2: casual way is really unnerving because, you know, it makes
Speaker 2: me feel like I'm living in a place where more
Speaker 2: and more people are like, yeah, some people are just
Speaker 2: not human to me, and that is really really frightening
Speaker 2: and horrific and such a difficult thing to grapple with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break and we'll
Speaker 4: be right.
Speaker 2: Back, and we're back SpaceX. Speaking of Elon, they just
Speaker 2: announced that they may try launching their Starship rocket for
Speaker 2: a second time this Friday, if they get approval from
Speaker 2: the FAA. And this comes fresh off the heels of
Speaker 2: an extremely damning investigation from Reuters. They uncovered quote over
Speaker 2: six hundred previously undisclosed workplace injuries at SpaceX facilities since
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. This is including everything from like cuts, lacerations,
Speaker 2: fucking head injuries to amputations. People have been in comas
Speaker 2: and tragically even death. One employee apparently died recently after
Speaker 2: sitting on some cargo that was being hauled on a
Speaker 2: trailer with no straps and the guy said, oh, no straps,
Speaker 2: I'll just lay on top of this insulation, so we
Speaker 2: can get it from point A to point be and
Speaker 2: hopefully my body weight will keep this from blowing off
Speaker 2: the fucking truck. Tragically, a gust of wind blew him
Speaker 2: and the insulation off and he was unfortunately, he was killed,
Speaker 2: like he was pronounced dead at the scene OSHA. Basically,
Speaker 2: like I think anyone who just heard what happened found
Speaker 2: that SpaceX had quote failed to protect the employee from
Speaker 2: what they say was a clear hazard. But it turns
Speaker 2: out like that's just kind of just a sample of
Speaker 2: how bad some people are getting injured there. One man
Speaker 2: was smacked in the head with it while they were
Speaker 2: testing an engine in twenty twenty two. Apparently like they
Speaker 2: were doing a pressure test of a Raptor V two
Speaker 2: rocket engine that's a tongue twister and like a piece
Speaker 2: of the rocket blew off and fractured the skull of
Speaker 2: employee Francisco Cabata, and it put him in a coma,
Speaker 2: and reportedly SpaceX has quote ignored the family's attempts to
Speaker 2: find out why he wasn't protected, And just I know,
Speaker 2: I said six hundred injuries twenty fourteen, But it's really
Speaker 2: important to note that that is only a portion of
Speaker 2: the total case count because while OSHA requires companies to
Speaker 2: report injuries annually since twenty sixteen, SpaceX facilities have quote
Speaker 2: failed to submit reports for most of those years. So
Speaker 2: this is like when things were just bad enough, and
Speaker 2: like the punishments are as we say all the time,
Speaker 2: fines don't deter billionaires, especially when the fines are a
Speaker 2: few hundred dollars to seven thousand dollars, like the fine
Speaker 2: for the guy who lost his life. They only had
Speaker 2: to pay a seven thousand dollars fine for that, And
Speaker 2: it's not like, you know, I know, people were like, well,
Speaker 2: maybe working on rocket ships is like a fucking hazardous gig.
Speaker 2: Not like when you compare this to the space industry average,
Speaker 2: they are blowing records out. So in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: the injury rate at their Brownsville facility in Texas was
Speaker 2: four point eight injuries per or illnesses per one hundred workers.
Speaker 2: That's six times higher than the space average industry of
Speaker 2: zero point eight per one hundred workers. And the reason
Speaker 2: for this, this is where Elon comes in. Is fucking
Speaker 2: Elon and his hatred of like regulations, Like he believes
Speaker 2: that employees should quote be responsible for protecting themselves. How
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, how does that work? And also like when
Speaker 2: he would go to do like safety visits to sites,
Speaker 2: he would tell people please take he didn't want people
Speaker 2: wearing safety yellow vests because he dislikes bright colors, and
Speaker 2: would also be like walking around sometimes with one of
Speaker 2: his dumbass flame throwers during a fucking safety visit, Like
Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
Speaker 5: This is I think this guy's a genius by the way, I.
Speaker 2: Know, I know. It just shows you what like hair
Speaker 2: plugs and a few billion dollars can do, and suddenly
Speaker 2: you're the new fucking what Tony Stark or whatever the
Speaker 2: fuck it is.
Speaker 6: He also doesn't like airbags on cars because they're two round.
Speaker 2: He said to felt to wrinkle your shirt. Actually, so
Speaker 2: I don't like, yeah, do away with them.
Speaker 6: It's an attic thing.
Speaker 2: What were you going to say, Sarah.
Speaker 5: Oh, no, I was. I was going to say, I
Speaker 5: have a my chapter of my book. This is a
Speaker 5: joke I had about how like when we were at Google,
Speaker 5: like we had like an ergonomic chair to protect your
Speaker 5: body while your soul was dying inside.
Speaker 9: Because like.
Speaker 5: They were so obsessed with ergonomics. They were so obsessed
Speaker 5: with carpal tunnel syndrome. They didn't want to stay at
Speaker 5: carpal tunnel. They didn't want our posture to be bad.
Speaker 5: They had standing nest so we could stand and sit.
Speaker 5: You know. It was so they were so obsessed with
Speaker 5: us protecting our bodies and so like, this is wild
Speaker 5: to me, the trajectory of tech in general. I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 5: this is bad for SpaceX and Elon, but I think
Speaker 5: a lot of industries they really started to care less
Speaker 5: about worker health in general.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm sure. I mean I think yeah, because like
Speaker 2: Google and places like that. It seems a little insidious too,
Speaker 2: because like, no, we need you healthy so we can
Speaker 2: get every motherfucking ounce of life out.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: All the perks that were there were so that you
Speaker 5: would stay, so that you wouldn't leave the building.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like when people talk about how they make like
Speaker 2: wogu beef, and they're like, they fatten them up, they
Speaker 2: give them massages, they spit beer into their coats and
Speaker 2: rub it in, so they get to the point that
Speaker 2: their flesh is worth more than any other meeting out there,
Speaker 2: right right, right right, It's for the slaughter's for the slaughter.
Speaker 2: But so apparently he, like Elon Musk, defends this attitude
Speaker 2: because like in tech, it's always like move fast and
Speaker 2: break skulls or I think that's break everything. Oh break everything, yeah,
Speaker 2: break every bone in your body, he says, because SpaceX
Speaker 2: is quote on an urgent quest to create a refuge
Speaker 2: in space from a dying.
Speaker 5: Please can you go do it? You go first, like
Speaker 5: put him there first, and him and Grimes can populate Mars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. And those other like weird billionaires who
Speaker 2: are like just like they're like I need my sperm everywhere.
Speaker 5: All the billionaires yeah, or the or the guys is
Speaker 5: like using his kid's blood to keep him young. Like
Speaker 5: he go there as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah it's fun. There's no amount of therapy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually need refuge from billionaires. So yeah, please
Speaker 2: go there because I actually I believe with all the private
Speaker 2: flights and stuff like the top one percent are going on,
Speaker 2: I think that would help tremendously, along with other things.
Speaker 5: But anyway, I guess I guess they don't have a union.
Speaker 5: I guess SpaceX and any of Elon's companies none of
Speaker 5: those workers are unionized.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder is there.
Speaker 5: I bet not, because I mean I don't think you would.
Speaker 2: Ever allow that or yeah right, yeah, I feel like
Speaker 2: anyone would. Yeah, they're like, I'm so proud to be
Speaker 2: hostile towards unions. Is usually like the take of these
Speaker 2: kinds of guys.
Speaker 6: Sarah, I thought you were asking if there was a
Speaker 6: billionaires union where unionized this billionaires so we can have
Speaker 6: our rights finally acknowledged by society.
Speaker 5: Dude, I think that's literally in our future that's going
Speaker 5: to happen.
Speaker 2: It is that feels like it. Oh yeah, it says
Speaker 2: employees were fired for speaking up about Elon Musk or
Speaker 2: talking about Okay, so it sounds like yeah, part for
Speaker 2: the course, perfect worse, perfect corse. But yeah, like also
Speaker 2: because of this like rush to get us to fucking
Speaker 2: Mars also meant to like employees have been taking like
Speaker 2: adderall without prescriptions to like be able to fucking pull
Speaker 2: like wild hours and then falling asleep in bathrooms. Also
Speaker 2: to speed up the work, the company has literally been
Speaker 2: getting workers to weld rocket parts in a tent on
Speaker 2: the beach and then like when the beach got too hot,
Speaker 2: they just hooked the people up to an IV and
Speaker 2: then sent them right back out there. And also in
Speaker 2: this like tent welding shop, apparently when the wind was
Speaker 2: blowing they had to they had to shut the flaps
Speaker 2: and basically enclose everyone in a tent with like carcinogenic dust.
Speaker 2: So it's all very it's all very it's all very elon.
Speaker 2: So we'll see what happens. This is me Rile.
Speaker 5: This is a billion dollar company and they're treating employees
Speaker 5: like this. This is I mean, I totally expected in
Speaker 5: the Congo where they're trying to get diamonds out and
Speaker 5: stuff like that or whatever.
Speaker 2: But it's that model. It's it's yeah, there, you are
Speaker 2: merely automatons meant to help us generate capital.
Speaker 5: What is the end game? Okay? What's the endgame? Okay,
Speaker 5: so we have all of these people addicted to social
Speaker 5: media that's not working and they're all upset and their
Speaker 5: jobs are killing them. Like, there's not gonna be anybody
Speaker 5: left to buy the products that you're making. Okay, there's
Speaker 5: gonna be no one around. Everybody's gonna be gone. We're
Speaker 5: all gonna be dead. So what's the end game. You're
Speaker 5: gonna You're gonna build robots. To buy your products, Like
Speaker 5: you're gonna build robots to make your products, and then
Speaker 5: you're gonna build robots to buy your products, and it's
Speaker 5: just gonna be all robots. I guess, I guess.
Speaker 2: Or it's the other one where they're like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: AI is going to be doing a lot of the work.
Speaker 2: So that's why, like, you know, you hear the very
Speaker 2: like cynical version of like, we need a UBI, we
Speaker 2: need a universal basic income. And that's not because they
Speaker 2: believe that people like we should just move to that
Speaker 2: and give like we have a basic income to live
Speaker 2: off of, but because like but then when the fucking
Speaker 2: robots or ais take their livelihood, they'll still have a
Speaker 2: little scratch to give back to us in the form
Speaker 2: of consumerism or something like that. It's all it all
Speaker 2: works out in a very dark way. Or they're just
Speaker 2: they build their fucking bunkers in New Zealand and or
Speaker 2: like I'll hide. We had a guest on a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, Douglas Rushkov, who like would talk to
Speaker 2: the billionaires who like build bunkers, and the way they
Speaker 2: talk is all like how do I get them to
Speaker 2: not want like rebel against me, like and take all
Speaker 2: the food. Can I like put like a like a
Speaker 2: detonator on their throat or something to keep them in control?
Speaker 2: And they're like, you actually haven't thought any of this through,
Speaker 2: Like your're.
Speaker 5: So they're scared that their workers are going to rebel,
Speaker 5: so they're figuring out a way to have their workers.
Speaker 2: So in the context of the apocalypse bunker like where
Speaker 2: they said they've like some billionaires are like, I have
Speaker 2: a team of like ex paramilitary Like yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 2: people who protect the people who will inevitably protect and
Speaker 2: labor for the billllionaires in an apocalypse bunker. They're like,
Speaker 2: do I like make the code to the food something
Speaker 2: only I know? So that way, if I die, they
Speaker 2: also don't get anything. And it's also like it's I mean,
Speaker 2: and to your point, Sarah, it's that way of thinking
Speaker 2: that somehow helps you aggregate the kind of wealth to
Speaker 2: be a billionaire and also makes you a not human.
Speaker 4: So oh my god.
Speaker 5: And that's why like Zuckerberg and all these guys are
Speaker 5: trying to build this like city, this city that no
Speaker 5: one else can get into, this like commune because they
Speaker 5: know this shit is going to hit.
Speaker 2: The fan, yeah, or that or precisely that, like they know,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's like this relentless
Speaker 2: pursuit of wealth and making the lineup go infinitely is
Speaker 2: only destroying the earth, destroying the fabric of our society.
Speaker 2: And they're like, I don't know, we're responsible before, but
Speaker 2: at the same time, let's build a thing to insulate
Speaker 2: ourselves from it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The good thing is like.
Speaker 5: Every man for himself kind of yeah, mentality.
Speaker 2: I mean, the good news is those plans will not work.
Speaker 2: Like it feels like no matter what you do, because
Speaker 2: even the people who are like I don't this and
Speaker 2: I'll build that, bah blah blah blah, it's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: what if a part goes out for your your your HVAC,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, you have no ac. Do
Speaker 2: you have someone on staff that can like manufacture the
Speaker 2: part that you would need to fix it or do
Speaker 2: you have someone with that capability? And like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: And then and then what if that has a knock
Speaker 2: on effect on your green your growhouse that you say
Speaker 2: will provide your food, because if that isn't temperature controlled,
Speaker 2: then what do you do? And then if you don't
Speaker 2: have the food growing or the water purification system not
Speaker 2: just for you but for your plants.
Speaker 5: And then they start being like, well, this is very helpful.
Speaker 5: I do plan to be a billionaire, so it's good
Speaker 5: to know all this stuff going in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just that's why I just, yeah, just be
Speaker 2: one of those people that no one wants to, like, well,
Speaker 2: the first person they think of when the shit goes down,
Speaker 2: like you know who, you know who I'm going to
Speaker 2: pay a visit to, right, Yeah, I can't just be
Speaker 2: on the be on the good side, please, I'll be on.
Speaker 5: The good side. Also, maybe just like be a billionaire,
Speaker 5: but like, don't tell anybody that you're a billionaire. That's
Speaker 5: probably a better way to do it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, secret billionaire.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I like the idea that in this billionaire city there's
Speaker 6: still like a version of a poor billionaire where oh,
Speaker 6: you only have one point five billion. It's like you
Speaker 6: hear Carl has A has an above ground bunker.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's in Michigan. Oh my god, you didn't get
Speaker 2: to New Zealand. Oh, poor guy, poor guy, because that's
Speaker 2: the other spot everyone's looking at is Michigan because all
Speaker 2: that's fresh water. But anyway, let's move on to something
Speaker 2: just to wrap this show up, something a little more pleasant.
Speaker 2: Andre three stacks, Andre three thousand. He is releasing his
Speaker 2: fucking debut solo album. True this like just just me
Speaker 2: doing my thing. This is Andre Benjamin here I am.
Speaker 2: The album is called New Blue Sun. And before, like myself,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, andres.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes years right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this man, this is again. This album is
Speaker 2: quote entirely made up of instrumental woodwind music. It's just
Speaker 2: him on the flute, which I'm like, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: I've seen him like he's always like I've seen I
Speaker 2: feel like most of the videos I've seen him recently
Speaker 2: are playing some kind of flute, which so people wouldn't
Speaker 2: be totally shocked. I apparently I didn't realize that the
Speaker 2: track she Lives in My Lap, he played flute on that,
Speaker 2: Like he's playing woodwinds on that. Yeah, And also where's
Speaker 2: the catch with James Blake? He played woodwind So I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I had no idea. I was not
Speaker 2: familiar with your game, sir. And there was like there
Speaker 2: a couple of viral clips of him playing like a
Speaker 2: flute in the airport. But it's funny because like I
Speaker 2: think he knows how much his fans like love him
Speaker 2: as a rapper vocalist, and he's like a little apologetic.
Speaker 2: Like the first track of the album is this is
Speaker 2: the literal track of the first album. Quote this track one,
Speaker 2: I swear I really wanted to make a rap album,
Speaker 2: but this is literally the way. This is literally the
Speaker 2: way the wind blew me this time is the first track.
Speaker 2: And he said, even on the cover, there's even a
Speaker 2: label that says warning no bars, just to let you
Speaker 2: know there will be no You will not hear his voice.
Speaker 2: You will just hear maybe you'll hear a breath here
Speaker 2: and there as he's playing. But I'll take you. I
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, I think it's sweet. I think it's yeah,
Speaker 6: I think it's cute, Like let him let him do
Speaker 6: his thing. He's not bait and switching anyone, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 6: let him play with his wood ones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. And also at this point too, like
Speaker 2: it's been so long where I've like I stopped holding
Speaker 2: my Like I caught them when they had like a
Speaker 2: reunion tour like in twenty fourteen. I was like I
Speaker 2: was there for that. I saw that I got my fill.
Speaker 2: But also it's nice because I feel like so much
Speaker 2: of that work is like it's perfect. I'm like, yep, don't,
Speaker 2: I don't. We don't need to augment this. If you
Speaker 2: want to, sure, go ahead, Like you know, like I
Speaker 2: like Big Boys other projects that he does, but with
Speaker 2: like Andre, Yeah, he's always been so vibe that I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can't get mad. And I feel like most people
Speaker 2: feel the same way. Like I know some people, but whatever,
Speaker 2: I just as.
Speaker 5: An artist, it's so brave to do something so completely different.
Speaker 5: I mean, it really is.
Speaker 2: It's very inspiring, and it's also it's also just like
Speaker 2: the like that just a little bit of consideration for
Speaker 2: his fans who know him as a rapper vocalist. Or
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, like the first track, I swear I
Speaker 2: really wanted to make a rap album, but this is
Speaker 2: literally the way with the wind bloop me this time.
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's fine, and he's really funny.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, I mean I am I don't know
Speaker 5: what the music. I personally have never listened to an
Speaker 5: album of just woodwind instruments, yeah, in my life. But
Speaker 5: maybe this will start a whole new trend. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like people I want.
Speaker 5: To see him and Lizzo do like a little thing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a lot of flutes, a lot of flutes
Speaker 2: going down. Yeah, I think we'll see. I mean, I've
Speaker 2: seen people say they've heard bits and pieces of it.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, like if maybe they're at a listening
Speaker 2: party or something like that, but it's I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean from the people who claim to have hear it,
Speaker 2: they're like, it's it's pretty cool. It's like trippy, and
Speaker 2: I'm like.
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm gonna get high and listen to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I couldn't imagine Andre like you come out, he's
Speaker 2: just playing like hot cross Buns, no backing, drafty motherfucker
Speaker 2: playing a recorder. Then I might feel like, Bro, you
Speaker 2: had a lot of time to fucking get that recorder, right.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I think this will start a resurgence
Speaker 5: every recorder interest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, recorder, Well, wasn't it Like was recorder not like
Speaker 2: like a part of the core for a certain point.
Speaker 2: Did you play recorder? Blake?
Speaker 6: Did you that was my primary instrument?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I'm serious, I'm serious. Did you have no
Speaker 2: play recorder? No bit?
Speaker 6: Yes, I did, Like that was because we had music class,
Speaker 6: and I think that was the only instrument because we
Speaker 6: had to buy it ourselves, I remember, but it was,
Speaker 6: in terms of instruments, the most you know, affordable instrument
Speaker 6: that you could possibly get. So yeah, I know we
Speaker 6: played like b A G b ag like that was
Speaker 6: uh hot cross.
Speaker 2: Buns of course, everybody, you fucking that's the first track
Speaker 2: you learn on this cross Buns. That's right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. But apparently I didn't realize that. Like
Speaker 2: it's like the reason too, is that it helps like
Speaker 2: with creative thinking skills like finger dexterity.
Speaker 5: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, what the fuck? I was like,
Speaker 2: my teacher is just a weirdo making us play this
Speaker 2: shitty plastic flute. But no, there's it turns out there
Speaker 2: was a reason. There's more than just Mary had a
Speaker 2: little man. I'll have to look into it, all right.
Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist. Please
Speaker 1: like and review the show If you like, the show
Speaker 1: means the world the miles he he needs your validation, folks.
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great weekend, and I will
Speaker 1: talk to him one day. By nothing