Speaker 1: The state of our attention is what determines the state
Speaker 1: of our lives. Welcome to the one you feed throughout time.
Speaker 1: Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have.
Speaker 1: Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what
Speaker 1: you think ring true, and yet for many of us,
Speaker 1: our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 1: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 1: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 1: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 1: just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent,
Speaker 1: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 1: podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction, how they feed their good wolf m
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is
Speaker 1: Chris Bailey, who ran a year long productivity project where
Speaker 1: he conducted intensive research as well as dozens of productivity
Speaker 1: experiments on himself to discover how to become as productive
Speaker 1: as possible. To date, he has written hundreds of articles
Speaker 1: on the subject and has garnered coverage and media as
Speaker 1: diverse as The New York Times, The Huffington's Post, New
Speaker 1: York Magazine, Harvard Business Review, Ted, Fast Company, and Life Hacker.
Speaker 1: On this episode, Eric and Chris discuss his new book
Speaker 1: hyper Focus, How to Become More Productive in a world
Speaker 1: of Distraction. I wanted to mention too that if you
Speaker 1: follow the link in the show notes or go to
Speaker 1: One you Feed dot Net slash Amazon, you can get
Speaker 1: the new book there. Of course, that helps the One
Speaker 1: you Feed podcast out just a little bit, and Chris
Speaker 1: would be ecstatic. Hi, friends, I wanted to remind you
Speaker 1: of a couple different ways that you can connect with
Speaker 1: us or get more of One you Feed goodness. The
Speaker 1: first is our Facebook group. It's a discussion group where
Speaker 1: people post things that are inspiring to them. They talk
Speaker 1: about problems or challenges that they're having and get lots
Speaker 1: of great feedback from the group. It's a great place
Speaker 1: to be and you can get there by going to
Speaker 1: One you Feed dot Net slash group. Another great resource
Speaker 1: is our email list. If you sign up on our
Speaker 1: website One you Feed dot Net today, you get a
Speaker 1: free guide top four hacks that make habits stick, and
Speaker 1: you get a monthly newsletter. And the newsletter, I think
Speaker 1: is one of the best things we put out. It
Speaker 1: talks about all of the episodes that happened that month.
Speaker 1: It has a tip from a listener about how they
Speaker 1: feed their good wolf. It has my book recommendation for
Speaker 1: the month. And it's not a guest I've had on
Speaker 1: it's something completely different. And there's a section a meditation
Speaker 1: corner that talks about meditation from a different angle every month.
Speaker 1: So highly recommend you get that. That's one you feed
Speaker 1: dot net and just subscribe in the right hand column.
Speaker 1: And finally, I did a ted x talk not quite
Speaker 1: a year ago that talks about how to create good habits,
Speaker 1: and I think it's one of the better things I've done.
Speaker 1: And so you can go to one you feed dot
Speaker 1: net slash tad to see that. So those are just
Speaker 1: a couple different ways that you can engage with us.
Speaker 1: As always, thank you so much for listening and being involved.
Speaker 1: We're so happy you're here. And here's the interview with
Speaker 1: Chris Bailey. Hi, Chris, welcome to the show. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me man, it's good to be here. I am
Speaker 1: happy to have you on. Your book is called hyper Focus,
Speaker 1: How to be More Productive in a world of distraction,
Speaker 1: or I should say your most recent book is called
Speaker 1: hyper Focus because you've written on productivity topics before, and
Speaker 1: we will get into all those details, but let's start
Speaker 1: like we always do, with the parable. There's a grandfather
Speaker 1: who's talking with his granddaughter and he says, in life,
Speaker 1: there are two wolves inside of us that are always
Speaker 1: at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things
Speaker 1: like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is
Speaker 1: a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred
Speaker 1: and fear. And the granddaughter stops and she thinks about
Speaker 1: it for a second and looks up at her grandfather
Speaker 1: and she says, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says,
Speaker 1: the one you feed. So I'd like to start off
Speaker 1: by asking you what that parable means to you in
Speaker 1: your life and in the work that you do. It's
Speaker 1: funny because I'm at my desk right now. I'm standing up,
Speaker 1: but to my right, right next to my desk is
Speaker 1: my meditation cushion, which i'd go to on breaks and
Speaker 1: in order to focus more deeply and and get more
Speaker 1: done the rest of the day. And it's funny you
Speaker 1: mentioned greed, hatred and fear, because greed, hatred and delusion
Speaker 1: are kind of the more toxic things in our life.
Speaker 1: According to Buddhism. Maybe that's where you pulled it from,
Speaker 1: whereas things like kindness, bravery and law of And what
Speaker 1: it reminds me of is what we notice, because I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer in the idea that what we notice
Speaker 1: is what we become. If we notice all the things
Speaker 1: that we have to be grateful for in our lives,
Speaker 1: that's what we see, and then we live this life
Speaker 1: of abundance. If we notice all of the things that
Speaker 1: we don't have and the things that we want, and
Speaker 1: all the things that are different from the way we
Speaker 1: expected them to be, then we're going to leave a
Speaker 1: life of suffering behind us in our tracks. And so
Speaker 1: that that's what it reminds me of. Um, where you
Speaker 1: know what, what we notice we become if that makes
Speaker 1: sense absolutely, And it reminds me of a line in
Speaker 1: your book that says, directing our attention towards the most
Speaker 1: important object of your choosing and then sustaining that attention
Speaker 1: is the most consequential decision we will make throughout the day.
Speaker 1: We are what we pay attention to. And and I
Speaker 1: think we can expand that beyond I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: great productivity tip, right, But that's life, right, is is
Speaker 1: where are we putting our attention and focus up? And
Speaker 1: if I've realized one thing in writing that book and
Speaker 1: looking over all the research about attention, it's that the
Speaker 1: state of our attention is what determines the state of
Speaker 1: our lives. If we go through each moment in a
Speaker 1: state of distraction, we're trying to pay attention to five
Speaker 1: or six different things, and we notice our attention is
Speaker 1: tugged in the moment. Those moment by moment experiences of
Speaker 1: distraction or what accumulate to create a life that is distracted.
Speaker 1: On the converse side, if we pay attention to things
Speaker 1: that are productive and that move our work forward and
Speaker 1: also meaningful, you know, conversations like the one with you
Speaker 1: right now, like when we're at dinner with somebody, a
Speaker 1: good meal, we're eating, a good cup of coffee we're drinking.
Speaker 1: Then our our lives become more productive and meaningful because
Speaker 1: those moments accumulate to make a life. And so it's
Speaker 1: such a powerful idea and simply noticing the things in
Speaker 1: the first place, but then you can kind of direct
Speaker 1: your attention where it's best for you. Yeah, I often
Speaker 1: talk about one of the major reasons I are did
Speaker 1: this show was because I noticed what happens to my
Speaker 1: brain if I just sort of let it go wherever
Speaker 1: it wants, and it tends towards the you know, greed, hatred, delusion, insecurity,
Speaker 1: pick your poison right and culturally right. You and I
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit before the show. What
Speaker 1: how this culture might be different than than other cultures
Speaker 1: that you've been to where there's this level of um
Speaker 1: insecurity or hyper sexualization, or to me, it's what it
Speaker 1: is is it's so much a focus on everything that
Speaker 1: is outside of us. If I had to boil, what
Speaker 1: I feel like the cultural messaging is down for me
Speaker 1: is that it's always pointing me towards something external, whether
Speaker 1: it's the outside of how I look or the outside
Speaker 1: of how you look, or what my car looks like
Speaker 1: or where I live. And so I started this show
Speaker 1: really because I just was like, I need a consistent
Speaker 1: reminder to put my attention on things that that matter.
Speaker 1: And so I thought, well, if I do this show,
Speaker 1: I'll talk to somebody each week about it. I'll have
Speaker 1: to read a book each week about it. And it worked, right,
Speaker 1: I mean it works for me. It's just this consistent
Speaker 1: reminder of what is important. And I'm going to jump
Speaker 1: ahead in the interview here a little bit to where
Speaker 1: I was going to go because it makes me think
Speaker 1: of something that you talk about in here, and I
Speaker 1: think it's so useful because I've got my own version
Speaker 1: of it. But you call it the hourly awareness chime,
Speaker 1: which is you set your phone to go off every
Speaker 1: hour and you ask yourself a series of questions. Mine
Speaker 1: have always been, you know, where am I kind of
Speaker 1: trying to get back to the present moment, like ground
Speaker 1: myself in the moment? What am I doing? And is
Speaker 1: it what I want to be doing. You've got a
Speaker 1: few more and I'll just read them and then i'll
Speaker 1: let you um comment on them. But they're they're similar,
Speaker 1: but there's a little bit more diversely. But was my
Speaker 1: mind wandering? Am I working on autopilot or something I
Speaker 1: intentionally chose? Am I immersed into productive task? What's the
Speaker 1: most consequential thing I could be doing? You know how
Speaker 1: full is my attentional space? We'll talk about it in
Speaker 1: attentional space in a minute. And then are their distractions
Speaker 1: that are preventing me from hyper focus. But I love that. Um,
Speaker 1: I haven't really seen it anywhere else anybody who mentions,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of that very regular check in as
Speaker 1: to what is my mind doing right now? Or what
Speaker 1: am I doing with my mind? I guess either way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know, he rhymed off a few questions. And
Speaker 1: and the thing I always say when it comes to
Speaker 1: productivity advice is you have a lot of experts who
Speaker 1: have these you know, these ten these fifteen steps systems
Speaker 1: that say, okay, do these things in this order and
Speaker 1: you'll be maximally, you will be a hundred times more productive.
Speaker 1: But what if I've realized something in in exploring and
Speaker 1: researching this topic. It's that productivity just doesn't work that way. Um,
Speaker 1: it's personal productivity. And because of that, we have to
Speaker 1: take the advice that works for us and leave the
Speaker 1: rest of it on the table. Um. And so I'll
Speaker 1: use that as a frame for this conversation. Is you know,
Speaker 1: you might agree with some of the things that you
Speaker 1: might not agree with with much of it. You might
Speaker 1: agree with a few things, but take what works for
Speaker 1: you and leave the rest. But this hourly awareness chime
Speaker 1: is something that I've personally found so helpful with regard
Speaker 1: to the work that I do, because the truth is
Speaker 1: that we don't check up on what's in our attention.
Speaker 1: That often we don't notice what's in our mind, what
Speaker 1: our mind is full of. It's what mindfulness is. It's
Speaker 1: noticing what your mind is full of. And so this
Speaker 1: hourly chime is essentially an hourly prompt at which we notice, Okay,
Speaker 1: where is my mind? How distracted am I? Is? It
Speaker 1: wandering away from what I intended to focus on? And
Speaker 1: our mind wanders an awful lot without our awareness. Um.
Speaker 1: The latest research that I've seen, it shows that our
Speaker 1: mind wanders around of the day and we only notice
Speaker 1: around five times each hour that it has wandered away
Speaker 1: from whatever it is that we wanted to accomplish. And
Speaker 1: what this means is that it can wander for a
Speaker 1: long time without us noticing that it has um and
Speaker 1: it can also wander away from our intent mention. So
Speaker 1: we choose so often what we do before we focus
Speaker 1: on something, but then our mind goes to a different place.
Speaker 1: It tends to a distraction. UM, it tends to something
Speaker 1: you know, our mind tends to gravitate it to anything
Speaker 1: that's one of three things. Anything that's pleasurable, anything that
Speaker 1: is threatening, or anything that is novel. And so you know,
Speaker 1: so often when our mind wanders, it wanders to something
Speaker 1: that's one of these three things, like like you were
Speaker 1: talking off the bat. But if we notice that we've
Speaker 1: fallen into one of these distractions, we can notice and
Speaker 1: realign it to what's important too, um, or simply notice
Speaker 1: that we're working on something productive and give ourselves a
Speaker 1: well deserved pat on the back. Yeah. So a question
Speaker 1: for you hourly awareness challenge. One of the things that
Speaker 1: I have found is that when I set something an
Speaker 1: alert or a reminder to go off very very regularly,
Speaker 1: there becomes a point that I start to ignore it.
Speaker 1: It starts to you know, so how do you work
Speaker 1: with that phenomenon? You know, how do you keep that
Speaker 1: fresh or how do you keep yourself order focused on? Like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I really do need to stop and
Speaker 1: do a do a real check in here. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: I think the best productivity tactics out there they're self
Speaker 1: reinforcing and so in that way, when you do them,
Speaker 1: and the more you invest in them, um, the more
Speaker 1: you end up accomplishing the deeper you're able to focus, Um,
Speaker 1: the less your mind wanders for and the more often
Speaker 1: you work with intention. And these are these are actually
Speaker 1: the measures that I use to measure the quality of
Speaker 1: our attention. So how long we can hold our focus for,
Speaker 1: how long our mind wanders for before we can catch it,
Speaker 1: and how much of our time we spend with intention.
Speaker 1: And so I think if you look at these measures
Speaker 1: over time, so it's hard to measure them on a
Speaker 1: precise scientific level, and doing so probably might not even
Speaker 1: worth be doing. But you know, simply notice how these
Speaker 1: measures change over time, so as you continue to check
Speaker 1: up on your attention. And notice also if you make
Speaker 1: a habit of checking up on where your mind it
Speaker 1: is throughout the day, because then it really becomes a habit.
Speaker 1: Then he can switch over to other cues. So sometimes
Speaker 1: you know, this hourly chime becomes a bit annoying and so,
Speaker 1: oh it's that damn chime again, I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: some work done. Um, Then you can switch it over
Speaker 1: to other cues in your environment. So maybe picking up
Speaker 1: your phone on the third or fourth ring instead of
Speaker 1: the first and checking up on where your mind is
Speaker 1: that when it rings, maybe every time your calendar gives
Speaker 1: you a notification checking checking up on where your mind is. Then,
Speaker 1: so introducing these other cues that isn't this annoying hourly
Speaker 1: chimes because it it does kind of wear a bit
Speaker 1: thin at a certain point and you might not even
Speaker 1: find you need it past a certain point. But it's
Speaker 1: a good way to begin working more mindfully. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about productivity for a second, because I think
Speaker 1: that productivity is one of those things that when people
Speaker 1: hear it, they tend to think, Okay, that's about business.
Speaker 1: And you know, I know a lot of listeners on
Speaker 1: this show will hear that and be like, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm just not that interested in business, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm going to skip this episode. But really, productivity, it
Speaker 1: certainly has a lot to do with the work that
Speaker 1: you do. But I think you could also argue that
Speaker 1: it's not just a means to an end, but it's
Speaker 1: an end in itself in that there's something about the
Speaker 1: way we feel when we use our time well, whatever
Speaker 1: well means to us, there's a well being inherent in
Speaker 1: using our time. Well, it's not just what that produces. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and um, I think everybody has a different definition of
Speaker 1: this term productivity, And when I first started exploring this area,
Speaker 1: I had a very different definition that I have now.
Speaker 1: But the definition that I've settled into over time that
Speaker 1: I find works regardless of the situation that we're in,
Speaker 1: is that we're perfectly productive whenever we accomplish what we
Speaker 1: intend to do. And so if we intend to have
Speaker 1: a great interview with with somebody and then write a
Speaker 1: report and then update our Excel sheet, and then we
Speaker 1: do all those things, um, then we were perfectly productive.
Speaker 1: And the same is true if we intend to relax
Speaker 1: on a beach and put up our feet and read
Speaker 1: a good book and drink a few corona, and then
Speaker 1: we do I would argue we're perfectly productive then too.
Speaker 1: But the key, and I think the yardstick against which
Speaker 1: we should measure our productivity isn't how busy we are.
Speaker 1: It's not how much we do, but rather it's uh
Speaker 1: the intentions that we set, how many of them do
Speaker 1: we accomplish? Uh? And to what degree do we accomplish them?
Speaker 1: I find this word, like he said, brings up these
Speaker 1: connotations is something that's so cold and corporate and all
Speaker 1: about this efficiency. Um. But I don't think it's about
Speaker 1: that really, in practice, it's not about doing more and
Speaker 1: more and more faster, faster, faster. I think it's about
Speaker 1: doing the right things and doing those deliberately and with intention.
Speaker 1: That that's where productivity lies, right, and time management by
Speaker 1: its very nature is an interesting discipline. And but if
Speaker 1: we don't start with like, what is the good use
Speaker 1: of our time? Then you know, I mean, that's to me,
Speaker 1: that's where it all starts. How do I want to
Speaker 1: use my time? What's important to me in life? What's
Speaker 1: important to me this month, this week, and then aligning
Speaker 1: you know, our time to that, and then using that
Speaker 1: time well. And again, one of the things that has
Speaker 1: become so apparent to me is how painful using time
Speaker 1: wastefully is, at least for me, and I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, procrastination is is a
Speaker 1: real problem for a lot of people. And it's a
Speaker 1: problem because a, yes, it stops you from accomplishing what
Speaker 1: you want to accomplish, which is a cost, but you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the people I work with and coaching,
Speaker 1: the other cost that I would argue is even bigger
Speaker 1: is what it does to us inside, how we feel
Speaker 1: about ourselves, how we feel about our ability to impact
Speaker 1: the world, how we feel out of control. And so
Speaker 1: again I don't think that productivity or time management our
Speaker 1: means to an end. They're also, as you know, as
Speaker 1: I said, an end to themselves, because it feels good
Speaker 1: to use our time well and it feels bad to
Speaker 1: not use it well. Back to the wolf example. So
Speaker 1: some feelings that a lot of people mentioned coming up
Speaker 1: when they're not productive are things like guilt and worry
Speaker 1: and doubt. But if you deconstruct these feelings a little bit,
Speaker 1: that you know, I come up with so many uh
Speaker 1: productivity ideas on the meditation cushion and practicing mindfulness and
Speaker 1: and ideas like that, and this happens to be one
Speaker 1: of them, because it's by deconstructing these feelings that we
Speaker 1: can really get to the bottom of them, I think.
Speaker 1: But if you look at guilt, for example, it's kind
Speaker 1: of this tension about the way we spend our time
Speaker 1: in the past. Um, this worry is attention about the future.
Speaker 1: This doubt is really attention about how we're spending our
Speaker 1: time now. And if you work with intention, these emotions
Speaker 1: are kind of flood in to to fill the vacuum
Speaker 1: that intentionality leaves when it's not there, and so when
Speaker 1: you work with intention there's kind of this purpose is
Speaker 1: drive behind what you're doing because you chose to do it,
Speaker 1: and in that choice is a confidence that what you're
Speaker 1: doing in the moment, whatever that happens to be, that's
Speaker 1: exactly where you need to be. That's what you're put
Speaker 1: on earth to do. And because you don't feel this guilt,
Speaker 1: that's worried, this doubt, you can become so much more
Speaker 1: immersed in what you're doing in the present. So I
Speaker 1: think you hit the nail right on the head. A
Speaker 1: lot of people focus on, Okay, we need to become
Speaker 1: two times as productive each day, but I think that
Speaker 1: feeling is worth chasing even more, the feeling that we
Speaker 1: get a bit of when we write something on our
Speaker 1: to do list that we just did and then cross
Speaker 1: it off just for the fun of it. Um you know,
Speaker 1: it's that feeling of accomplishing what we set out to do,
Speaker 1: and not only that, but connecting what we intend to
Speaker 1: do with what's meaningful in our lives, what's actually important
Speaker 1: in our work, that's actually connected to other people and
Speaker 1: not just connected to ourselves. And this is what makes
Speaker 1: a difference. It's what gives us that feeling too, and
Speaker 1: also erases the the other feelings that that aren't so
Speaker 1: uh savory. The way I describe it as you know
Speaker 1: that one of the most important skills in life is
Speaker 1: being able to make commitments or promises to yourself and
Speaker 1: then keep them and again, whatever those promises or commitments ares,
Speaker 1: that's that's yours to figure out. That's entirely individual. But
Speaker 1: if we can't do that, it eats at us. It
Speaker 1: erodes us as as people, because we just you know,
Speaker 1: I often say to people who have tried to change
Speaker 1: something over and over and over again, it's like we
Speaker 1: at a certain point just don't believe ourselves. We're like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start exercising again. But at the same moment,
Speaker 1: there's this part of us it's like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've said that a thousand times, you know, and and
Speaker 1: it's just it's an awful feeling. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: So I think this is why productivity is so important exact.
Speaker 1: So let's move on to an idea that you shared
Speaker 1: in one of your earlier books, and you reference it
Speaker 1: briefly in this book. But I think it's really useful.
Speaker 1: You call it the rule of three. This is a
Speaker 1: great segue because we're just talking about intention and so
Speaker 1: you know, how do you make that practical on a
Speaker 1: daily basis? The hourly Awareness Chime is a good way
Speaker 1: to do that. So is setting these cues in your environment.
Speaker 1: So you're walking down the hallway and that reminds you
Speaker 1: to check up on what's on your attention, what were
Speaker 1: you just doing. But probably my favorite productivity ritual of
Speaker 1: all time is one of the simpler ones as well,
Speaker 1: and it's called the rule of three. And it goes
Speaker 1: like this. At the start of the day, you fast
Speaker 1: forward to the end of the day in your head
Speaker 1: and you ask yourself that, by the time this day
Speaker 1: is done, what three main things will I want to
Speaker 1: have accomplished? And three is such a it's such a
Speaker 1: great number because it's a number that fits comfortably within
Speaker 1: our attentional space. Our attentional space being just what we're
Speaker 1: able to focus on in the moment, and we can
Speaker 1: hold around three or four pieces chunks of information in
Speaker 1: our mind at once. And you know, phone numbers are
Speaker 1: one of my favorite examples of this. We don't say
Speaker 1: our phone number is you know, one billion, six million,
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand, whatever we say, our phone is phone
Speaker 1: numbers one six, one, three, eight, night eight h two
Speaker 1: nine six four, And so you know, we chunk it
Speaker 1: into these groups of three and and four, and we
Speaker 1: chunked the world into groups of three. Especially, we have
Speaker 1: sayings like good things coming threes, and celebrities die in threes,
Speaker 1: and the third times the charm. We award three Olympic medals.
Speaker 1: We divide a story, even which is a sequence of
Speaker 1: dozens of events, into three parts, the beginning, the middle,
Speaker 1: and the end. We grow up immersed in stories like Man,
Speaker 1: the Three Little Bears, the Three Blind Mice, the Three
Speaker 1: Little Pigs. Then we go to the Three Musketeers, and
Speaker 1: the list go is on. And so the idea is
Speaker 1: that this number three, we can hold it in our
Speaker 1: attention at once, so we can actually recall these things
Speaker 1: throughout the day when we uh day dream on what
Speaker 1: we should do next. But it fits with the way
Speaker 1: we think, and so I'm a big advocate for doing
Speaker 1: this every day. I also like to set three weekly intentions,
Speaker 1: three monthly intentions, three intentions for the year, so that
Speaker 1: I can see my daily goals feeding into these longer
Speaker 1: term goals that actually matter to me, so I can
Speaker 1: you know there's that deeper connection on a daily basis
Speaker 1: to what's meaningful for me. And so it's a simple rule,
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a pretty powerful rule. And again
Speaker 1: it's one of those rules where you know, take it
Speaker 1: and see how it works for you. Try it on
Speaker 1: for size for a week, uh, whenever you have to
Speaker 1: be listening to this, maybe it's a Monday, Uh, set
Speaker 1: three intentions every day this week, and just see how
Speaker 1: much more you're able to accomplish and and how much
Speaker 1: deeper you're able to focus and uh, and how much
Speaker 1: of your time you spend with intention behind what you're doing.
Speaker 1: I think you'll notice some good things. I like the
Speaker 1: rule of three because it feels to me like a
Speaker 1: middle ground, you know, the middle way. Obviously you're you're
Speaker 1: you're familiar with a lot of Buddhism, right. That's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite teachings from Buddhism is the middle way.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff out there about just one thing,
Speaker 1: pick the one thing for the day, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel like enough, you know, But if I
Speaker 1: look at my task list, I'm like, well, that's too much.
Speaker 1: I like three because it feels, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: easily held in attentional space, but it just feels like
Speaker 1: the middle way between, like all right, I'm focused on
Speaker 1: this one thing and I'm focused on everything. Um. I
Speaker 1: really like it, and I've started using it since I
Speaker 1: read your book, and it is for me. It's very
Speaker 1: useful because about three really major things seem to be
Speaker 1: the right number to get done in a day, or
Speaker 1: at least to spend my time on. Yeah, and some
Speaker 1: days I'll pick two. Some days I'll you know, have
Speaker 1: four important meetings, so I'll make four things. But even
Speaker 1: looking at the natural rhythm of my work as well,
Speaker 1: it's usually around three things that are important. Anything more
Speaker 1: than that you're trying to prioritize everything, and anything less
Speaker 1: than that you're just kind of focusing on too little
Speaker 1: because you have more time than you're accounting for. So
Speaker 1: now let's move into focus. Your latest book is called
Speaker 1: hyper Focus, so tell me what he is hyper focus.
Speaker 1: Hyper Focus is the word that I use to define
Speaker 1: a state of deliberate attention where we bring our full
Speaker 1: focus to one thing, and so we allow one task
Speaker 1: to consume our full attention and so this is an
Speaker 1: attentional state that leads to what cal Newport defines as
Speaker 1: deep work, what me Hi Chick sent me Hi refers
Speaker 1: to as a flow state where we look up at
Speaker 1: the clock and two hours have gone by and we
Speaker 1: think it's been fifteen or twenty minutes. But the main
Speaker 1: thing is that it's this level of deliberate attention, so
Speaker 1: we choose what we're focusing on ahead of time. I
Speaker 1: model it after a d h D literature where, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a state in a d h D
Speaker 1: where it's called hyper focus, and it's when we bring
Speaker 1: our full attention. But I use that definition but a
Speaker 1: couple with this deliberate attention, which I think is so critical.
Speaker 1: It's so critical we choose what we focus on. You
Speaker 1: get bonus points for attempting to and actually pronouncing the
Speaker 1: author of flows name right. I never even attempted, which
Speaker 1: you can if you remember back to our beginning conversation.
Speaker 1: I tried to pronounce a name to you that I
Speaker 1: butchered utterly, which was an easy name. You can imagine
Speaker 1: what I would do, what I would do with that name. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm always impressed by it, though, so so kudo we uh.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, kind of a backstory of of
Speaker 1: the book hyper Focus is U me Hi and I
Speaker 1: me Hi and I. This sounds like like a Rome Colm,
Speaker 1: but we have the same a Hungarian romantic comedy with
Speaker 1: me Hi Chicks set me Hi Um. We we have
Speaker 1: the same editor at Penguin Random House. And when we
Speaker 1: were pitching hyper Focus to UH to various publishers, I
Speaker 1: noticed that my current editor, Rick, he had a book
Speaker 1: of He had the original book Flow, the hardcover on
Speaker 1: his shelf in his office. Since I sai, oh, you
Speaker 1: have me Hi Chicks at me Highest book, and he
Speaker 1: was kind of taken aback, like you are. UM. But
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's his name. You come up UH
Speaker 1: two again and again and again if you're into productivity,
Speaker 1: and so you figure, okay, I should probably learn to
Speaker 1: pronounce this um. It's also one of those names where
Speaker 1: you type it into Google every time. Google always says
Speaker 1: did you mean me Hi Chicks sent me High? Or
Speaker 1: did you mean Schwarzenegger or whatever the name happens to be.
Speaker 1: It's thank you, Google, I really appreciate it. Well, you
Speaker 1: know what's amazing to me is, you know, I read
Speaker 1: a lot of books, you know at least one a week,
Speaker 1: as we talked about on well being, UM, mental health, productivity, meditation.
Speaker 1: And I think his book is perhaps the most cited book.
Speaker 1: I mean it's everywhere. I I mean, if I feel
Speaker 1: like every book I opened, I'm like that there it
Speaker 1: is again. Unlike you, I have not bothered to learn
Speaker 1: the pronunciation, so maybe even one day. Have you heard
Speaker 1: of the app text Expander on the Mac? Oh, it's
Speaker 1: my favorite. Oh, I have a snippet for me, Hi
Speaker 1: chicks Set me that's it's me holly see and then
Speaker 1: it it expands that text, so it says me, Hi chicks,
Speaker 1: set me high. And I use it. Uh. I only
Speaker 1: mentioned his name once, I think in in hyper focus
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to overdo it, but use it often. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it's pretty seminal work. And I love text Expander.
Speaker 1: So listeners, if you're on a Mac and you don't
Speaker 1: know what text expander is and you spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time typing, that's worth this entire conversation on its own,
Speaker 1: just to go investigate and get that. I love that thing.
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine life before it, particularly as poor
Speaker 1: typer as I am. Yeah, typing in things like an
Speaker 1: animal oh man those uh no, thank you yeah, and
Speaker 1: things like I use it so much for things like
Speaker 1: my home address. So as somebody who gets emails all
Speaker 1: day long, all the time, I can I send you
Speaker 1: a book? Can I send you a book? You know,
Speaker 1: just for me to be able to have a a
Speaker 1: shortcut key to put my home address in. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just so many of those different things. I love
Speaker 1: it even for like book titles because I, you know,
Speaker 1: the name of this book is hyper focused, but the
Speaker 1: subtitle is longer hyper focus. How to be more productive
Speaker 1: in the world of distraction? And I always forget whether
Speaker 1: to capitalize words I know of you don't capitalize, but
Speaker 1: um how to be more pretty? You know what about B?
Speaker 1: And so I just type an HF title and then
Speaker 1: it expands to be perfect every time. And so it's
Speaker 1: less embarrassing for you too. If these things you know,
Speaker 1: you just have to decide once. This is totally off topic,
Speaker 1: but I have to mention it. Text expander pro tip
Speaker 1: you can insert fields and numbers into the into the document.
Speaker 1: So um, so, so you type in a number and
Speaker 1: then it it prepopulates the form. So I have a
Speaker 1: pack list uh text expander snippets. So I type in
Speaker 1: all one word pack list, and it expands to fill
Speaker 1: all of the possible things that I could possibly pack
Speaker 1: on any trip, whether I'm doing a keynote somewhere, whether
Speaker 1: I'm traveling for leisure, whether I'm going to the cottage
Speaker 1: for the weekend. And what it does before it expands
Speaker 1: is maybe we could cut this out of show. Maybe
Speaker 1: it'll be valuable, but it asks me. It sends up
Speaker 1: a little window saying how many days will we be gone,
Speaker 1: and all types something like seven, and that will prepopulate
Speaker 1: all the fields. So it'll say, pack seven pairs of socks,
Speaker 1: seven pairs of underwear, seven the seven that seven tooth
Speaker 1: pick things since because I don't like tooth um flush,
Speaker 1: it's like different things like that, And so it saves
Speaker 1: me a ton of time. I just go through and
Speaker 1: delete all the things that I won't be packing, because
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just going to the cottage and I don't
Speaker 1: need to pack my passport, for an example. But because
Speaker 1: of this, I never forget anything, and whenever I'm able
Speaker 1: to travel somewhere, I'm able to pack in thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: Tops Well, you are a power user that's heavy stuff. Yeah. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: I just pulled up the text expander statistics and I've
Speaker 1: only been on this new computer for a month, but
Speaker 1: it has saved me hyping twelve thousand characters in that timeframe.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of tweets. Yeah, it is all right.
Speaker 1: Back on to hyper focus. So back to focus, yea,
Speaker 1: let's focus here, yes, um yeah, jeez man, what are
Speaker 1: the four stages of hyper focus? I have to preface
Speaker 1: this by saying that I'm averse to any four step thing,
Speaker 1: because three, yeah, you know, I'm I'm quite three is
Speaker 1: a nice, round, sexy number. Um. But any system, you know,
Speaker 1: anything where you should uh you know, follow things a
Speaker 1: certain ways. So I have to preface this by saying
Speaker 1: that these ideas are modeled after the natural rhythm of
Speaker 1: our attention. So the natural rhythm our of our attention
Speaker 1: works like this. We're focused on something, then our attention
Speaker 1: gets distracted, either by something internal inside our mind. We
Speaker 1: seek out something that's pleasurable or threatening her novel or
Speaker 1: external to us, and then we bring it back. So
Speaker 1: this happens again and again and again. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a pattern that repeat. We focus on something, our attention
Speaker 1: gets distracted, we bring it back. We're having a conversation,
Speaker 1: we start talking about texts expander, then we bring it
Speaker 1: back to focus. And so what we can do is model,
Speaker 1: on top of this essential framework with how our attention works,
Speaker 1: a few steps by which we're able to focus more
Speaker 1: deeply on what's important throughout the day. So we start
Speaker 1: by focusing on something, Well, if intention matters so much
Speaker 1: with regard to our productivity, maybe we can choose something
Speaker 1: productive or meaningful on which we can direct our attention.
Speaker 1: Um if we then get distracted, usually maybe we can
Speaker 1: eliminate as many of these external and internal distractions as
Speaker 1: we possibly can, then focus on something naturally and then
Speaker 1: bring our mind back to it. Whenever our mind wanders
Speaker 1: or gets distracted and we notice that it's been wandering
Speaker 1: away to something else, and so choosing something to focus on,
Speaker 1: eliminating the things that will get in the way of
Speaker 1: that focus, uh, then focusing then drawing attention back gently.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, that's that's just something
Speaker 1: to mention quickly. Is we're so hard on our minds
Speaker 1: when we notice they're distracted or that they've wandered to
Speaker 1: something that isn't really important. Um, that isn't what we've
Speaker 1: intended to accomplish. But it's so critical that we be
Speaker 1: kind to our mind. Our our minds are built to wander.
Speaker 1: They wander for half of the day. They're wired to
Speaker 1: to pay attention to anything that's more pleasurable and more threatening,
Speaker 1: more novel than what's important in front of us. And
Speaker 1: so it's so critical that we be kind to our
Speaker 1: mind as we do, because that's just the way our
Speaker 1: mind is wired to work. And there is your number
Speaker 1: one meditation tip for the day. Also, listeners, kindness when
Speaker 1: your mind wanders. Yeah, And you know what helps me
Speaker 1: in meditation too, is approach it with the genuine curiosity.
Speaker 1: Because our mind wanders just such fascinating places, and where
Speaker 1: it wanders to UM can can inform us on the
Speaker 1: state and the patterns that we've trained our mind in
Speaker 1: mind in. So, if it keeps wandering to a problem,
Speaker 1: that a difficult conversation we had a week ago, maybe
Speaker 1: it's trying to tell us something that we should we
Speaker 1: should act upon that conversation, maybe a bit differently, maybe
Speaker 1: we should follow up on it. If it keeps wandering
Speaker 1: to what we have to do after work today, maybe
Speaker 1: we have to do some errands, maybe we should schedule
Speaker 1: that in our calendar and make a predecision for how
Speaker 1: we're going to spend our time there. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, um, you know, they
Speaker 1: they're not kind of their mind first of all. So
Speaker 1: you know, be kind to your mind treated a little bit.
Speaker 1: Maybe ask okay, where do you want to wander today? Mind,
Speaker 1: and then let it roam free for a few minutes,
Speaker 1: let it get it out of its system. Then have
Speaker 1: a great meditation for the rest of your time on
Speaker 1: the cushion. Um. You know. I think it's that that
Speaker 1: that idea is so critical you could read a whole
Speaker 1: book about that idea alone. Yeah, And it makes me
Speaker 1: think of something, which is you mentioned one of the
Speaker 1: things to do when you are in hyper focus mode,
Speaker 1: and this is uh, something that I do also when
Speaker 1: I'm trying to like focus on one thing. Is you know,
Speaker 1: you have a little piece of paper there, and when
Speaker 1: something distracting comes up, just write it down and then
Speaker 1: back onto what you're doing. Because what happens to me
Speaker 1: is and I'm sure it happens to all of us
Speaker 1: to some degree, is happens a lot when I'm reading
Speaker 1: a book for an interview, because you or any other
Speaker 1: author will mention someone else or some idea, and I'll go, huh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting, and so then I'll hop over to that
Speaker 1: person's website, which forty minutes later, And not that that
Speaker 1: stuff isn't interesting or useful, but it's a lot better
Speaker 1: for me just to write down that person's name on
Speaker 1: a list that i've got next time, and then I
Speaker 1: can go back to it later. But I'll let you
Speaker 1: expand on that, And I also want to pose a
Speaker 1: different question related to it, which is, do you do
Speaker 1: that during meditation? And if you heard of people who
Speaker 1: do that during meditation, because as we're talking, it occurs
Speaker 1: to me that's exactly what happens in meditation all the time.
Speaker 1: And on one hand, it seems like it would be
Speaker 1: counterproductive to stop and write something down, and yet we
Speaker 1: know that what that does is in a sense, allow
Speaker 1: our minds to relax and refocus easier. That's such a
Speaker 1: good question, and and I've grappled with that question for years,
Speaker 1: and I've looked at the research about that idea for years,
Speaker 1: and I've i think I've finally settled on an answer
Speaker 1: for it. But that's you know, in terms of a
Speaker 1: distractions list, this is a great example of distractions that
Speaker 1: are internal. And so there are a lot of external ones,
Speaker 1: and those ones are usually obvious. A lot of people
Speaker 1: talk about those. I think enough books have been written
Speaker 1: about external distractions. Of course, we should leave our phone
Speaker 1: in another room. That it's kind of, you know, an
Speaker 1: essential part of focus. But the internal distractions that we have.
Speaker 1: We're reading a book and then our mind throws some
Speaker 1: cringe worthy memory that happened a few weeks ago. Where
Speaker 1: does that memory come from? Why does it present us
Speaker 1: with that memory in that moment when we're trying to
Speaker 1: focus on something. And so the idea of keeping a
Speaker 1: distractions list whenever an idea is um externalized in this
Speaker 1: way where we get it out of our mind and
Speaker 1: into some external system, that frees up more attentional space
Speaker 1: for whatever we want to give um that our attention
Speaker 1: to in the moment. And so that this is where
Speaker 1: the power of that idea lies, is that we externalize
Speaker 1: these things, we can get back on track. And I
Speaker 1: think in the book, I forget what I called the
Speaker 1: chapter because because it's you know, chapter names don't really
Speaker 1: mean much to me, I forget what I called it,
Speaker 1: but it's like seven or ten things that you should
Speaker 1: do before reading hyper focus, And I think number one
Speaker 1: is keep a distractions list anything that comes up as
Speaker 1: you read, you know, maybe write it down in the
Speaker 1: back of the book and cross things off there. If
Speaker 1: you're not one of those people who's protective of books,
Speaker 1: maybe keep a separate list, um And so this way
Speaker 1: you're able to focus more quickly, you know, refocus more quickly,
Speaker 1: but on capturing things during meditation. I've had a um
Speaker 1: at least a thirty minute meditation practice every day for years.
Speaker 1: And I say at least because my zapu and zabutana
Speaker 1: right here next to my desk in my office. And
Speaker 1: whenever i find my attention waning a bit, I'll often
Speaker 1: sit on and see, okay, what's uh, you know, where's
Speaker 1: my mind at today? And I think sometimes if I'm
Speaker 1: going through a lot and i find that I'm juggling
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas and some things are slipping through
Speaker 1: the cracks, I'll often keep a note pad in front
Speaker 1: of me with a little pen, just to jot down,
Speaker 1: much like a distractions list, these ideas so I can
Speaker 1: realign myself to focus on my breath. Have you done
Speaker 1: any meditation retreats before I have? Yep, I've done. I've
Speaker 1: done several. Yeah, me too. We we should go on one.
Speaker 1: We should have like, uh, have you ever done a
Speaker 1: podcast like meditation retreat You should do that. You know.
Speaker 1: Funny in when you feed Facebook group recently that idea
Speaker 1: of doing a retreat together as being thrown around some
Speaker 1: That's cool. I'm down for that. Assuming the book launched
Speaker 1: stuff doesn't get in the way of schedule. Well, believe me,
Speaker 1: your book will be well launched and you'll probably be
Speaker 1: halfway through your next one before I before I get
Speaker 1: this organized. Exactly the the idea, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: ever on a retreat, at least if if you're do
Speaker 1: the kind of passion of retreats that I do. Um,
Speaker 1: they'll always say, you know, your ideas will come to you. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, if your poet, your poetry is going to
Speaker 1: come to you. If you're an accountant, some ideas about
Speaker 1: work and things will come to you. And they always say,
Speaker 1: don't write those down, don't keep a diary. Uh, don't
Speaker 1: jot down these ideas, don't don't try to capture these
Speaker 1: things because this is a time that you can become
Speaker 1: more holy embedded within your practice, which is which is
Speaker 1: great overall. It's great for the quality of your attention
Speaker 1: and ultimately, I think for for your productivity, for how
Speaker 1: much meaning you have in your life because you're able
Speaker 1: to focus on stuff to to move things forward. But
Speaker 1: I often find myself capturing these ideas at the same time,
Speaker 1: and I think for me, it's about a balance, um.
Speaker 1: And so you know, sometimes all ideas will be flowing NonStop,
Speaker 1: and so I'll just capture them because I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: But I think when you capture these ideas in the
Speaker 1: short term, um, this leads to more short term productivity,
Speaker 1: but in the long term, your attention will suffer because
Speaker 1: you're not getting the full benefits out of the meditation practice.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I think you have to look
Speaker 1: at things over two time frames. Capturing things will make
Speaker 1: you more productive in the short term with a meditation
Speaker 1: practice is but in the long term your practice might
Speaker 1: suffer a little bit. Does that make sense? I think
Speaker 1: that's an idea that's that I've arrived at totally. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: here's what's interesting is I've done some vipasana style insight
Speaker 1: meditation type retreats where literally all you do is meditate
Speaker 1: pretty much. You eat, sleep and you meditate just you know,
Speaker 1: you you sit, you walk, you sit, you walk. And
Speaker 1: I've done those, But the last two retreats I've been
Speaker 1: on have been one week retreats, their silent retreats there
Speaker 1: with a spiritual teacher named Audia Shanti, and there's there's
Speaker 1: less meditation. It's more like six hours a day, which
Speaker 1: is not an insignificant amount of meditation, but is not
Speaker 1: like an insight meditation or of vi pasta or a
Speaker 1: zen retreat. What I like about that is one is
Speaker 1: it feels less like an endurance contest. But secondly is
Speaker 1: that aren't destroyed at the end where your legs are
Speaker 1: just craped. But I get lots of time. I still
Speaker 1: take the instructions very seriously around like don't read books,
Speaker 1: don't you know, don't distract yourself, right, But what I
Speaker 1: find is that I get lots of time. What I
Speaker 1: do with that free time to a large assent as
Speaker 1: I walk in the woods. And what I have found
Speaker 1: is that, boy do I get great ideas when I
Speaker 1: am meditating five or six hours a day and then
Speaker 1: the rest of the time. Um, you know, I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to stay sort of attentionally focused in the in
Speaker 1: the present moment. But yeah, boy, the idea is coming.
Speaker 1: What I what I like about that format a little
Speaker 1: bit is that I feel like I can write them
Speaker 1: down without it being a detriment to the meditation practice.
Speaker 1: The fascinating thing that that idea reminds me of is
Speaker 1: the greater control we have over our attention. The research
Speaker 1: shows that when our mind is wandering, it wanders in
Speaker 1: a more productive way. Yes, um, it wanders to the
Speaker 1: future more often when we have more control over our attention.
Speaker 1: Same with when we're happier. When we're happier, our mind
Speaker 1: wanders to the future more often at it. If you
Speaker 1: just let your mind be a little bit, maybe you're
Speaker 1: would working, maybe you're going for a run, maybe you're uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just walking around town, maybe you're walking from
Speaker 1: one room in the office to another. Your mind will
Speaker 1: wander to the future on average if you're average around
Speaker 1: forty percent of the time. But when you're happier and
Speaker 1: when you have a meditation practice, because you're able to
Speaker 1: focus that much more deeply in the quality of your
Speaker 1: attention goes up, it wanders to the future so much more.
Speaker 1: And it wanders also more to the present while thinking
Speaker 1: less about the past. And so it wanders to better
Speaker 1: uh and more fruitful. Fruitful is a better word than productivity.
Speaker 1: In a lot of these cases, it wanders to better places, um,
Speaker 1: so that those sessions become more meaningful and and uh
Speaker 1: provide us with greater insights. Yeah, I want to do
Speaker 1: another sort of more the insider of Aposta or Zen
Speaker 1: meditation retreats where we where it's the you know, the
Speaker 1: crazy amount of meditation. I want to do that again
Speaker 1: to compare it. But boy, these these last couple of
Speaker 1: retreats I've done with Audio Shanti have been way more
Speaker 1: profound for me than any meditation retreat where I was
Speaker 1: meditating for twelve hours a day. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: variables that could go into that, right, it's the less
Speaker 1: meditation time and nature. It's because it's with Audio Shanti.
Speaker 1: It's because I am further in my practice, and you know,
Speaker 1: whatever they whatever they are, But yeah, I just found
Speaker 1: that to be an interesting thing. But what I do
Speaker 1: notice is that you know, when I meditate more regularly,
Speaker 1: I meditate pretty much every day. You know, i'd say
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm not, but I'm I'm well above
Speaker 1: you know, probably um, but the time varies. But when
Speaker 1: I'm really doing you know, longer meditations very consistently, my
Speaker 1: brain just works better. And it's not the reason I
Speaker 1: do it, because I actually have things that feel a
Speaker 1: little bit deeper to me that drive me to do that.
Speaker 1: But boy, having a brain that works well is certainly
Speaker 1: a nice benefit. It's kind of important. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So we're nearing the end of time here. You and
Speaker 1: I will have a post show conversation where we talk
Speaker 1: about some different things, talking about techniques to increase focus.
Speaker 1: Will probably um talk a little bit about how to
Speaker 1: balance focus versus breaks and relaxation. But let's real quick
Speaker 1: hit on what scatter focuses before we wrap up. There
Speaker 1: are two attentional modes that our mind has. There. There's
Speaker 1: the focused mode, where we you know, bring our attention
Speaker 1: to something it fires up the task positive network in
Speaker 1: our mind. And then there's the the unfocused mode. So
Speaker 1: in any moment, we're either focus or we're unfocused in
Speaker 1: this unfocused mode, this day dream mode, the mind wandering mode. UM,
Speaker 1: activates the default mode of our mind, which, uh, there's
Speaker 1: so much fascinating research coming out about now. Um it's
Speaker 1: it's such a great field of neuroscience to be in.
Speaker 1: But the words that I use, I like making up
Speaker 1: words for stuff to make it more accessible. You know,
Speaker 1: when we bring our complete, deliberate attention to something that's
Speaker 1: that's hyper focus. But when we deliberately let our mind wander,
Speaker 1: I like to call that scattered focus. So in other words,
Speaker 1: you know, we we get into this mode, uh, not
Speaker 1: that often. Usually we don't uh let our mind wander deliberately.
Speaker 1: It's wandering against our will when we're trying to focus
Speaker 1: on writing a report or an important email, or or
Speaker 1: or meditating for example. But the research on where our
Speaker 1: mind wanders too is absolutely fascinating and it totally illuminated
Speaker 1: the way that I saw this topic. One of the
Speaker 1: other topics that I'm a big nerd about his traffic flows.
Speaker 1: How traffic flows down down a highway. And if you
Speaker 1: look at what allows cars to continue moving forward, it's
Speaker 1: not how fast the individual cars are moving, but rather
Speaker 1: it's how much space exists between the cars that allows
Speaker 1: them to continue flowing forward. And I think our work
Speaker 1: is much the same way were distraction and kind of
Speaker 1: filling it with mindless things. Distractions fill our day like
Speaker 1: water where they prevent uh this uh, this time this
Speaker 1: attention between different tasks. We go to focusing on Instagram
Speaker 1: or Facebook, or Twitter on our phone or the latest
Speaker 1: news before we switched to focusing on something else. And
Speaker 1: because of this um there's really no room between the
Speaker 1: things that we do. But the research on where our
Speaker 1: mind wanders too is so fast. I touched on it
Speaker 1: a bit. Where our mind is wired with this prospective bias,
Speaker 1: so it wanders to think about the future forty eight
Speaker 1: percent of the time. And this is time in which
Speaker 1: we're planning, we're setting intentions, we're thinking about what we're
Speaker 1: gonna do next, and so in this way, daydreaming, even
Speaker 1: though we're doing nothing, allows us to shut off this
Speaker 1: autopilot mode. We think about the present in this mode
Speaker 1: percent of the time, so we think of alternative and
Speaker 1: strategic approaches to what we're doing and conversations we're having
Speaker 1: in problems we're solving, and we think about the past
Speaker 1: around twelve percent of the time. And so you know
Speaker 1: a lot of us, I think the numbers higher than that.
Speaker 1: But usually we're planning in this mode. And the reason
Speaker 1: they don't end up to one d is Uh. It's
Speaker 1: because the rest of the time our mind is dull
Speaker 1: or blank. And in this mode, our mind wanders to
Speaker 1: three main places. The first is it wanders to these
Speaker 1: three places. But this allows us to do three things.
Speaker 1: It allows us to rest up because we only expand
Speaker 1: mental energy when we regulate our attention in one way
Speaker 1: or another um. And it allows us to plan because
Speaker 1: our mind wanders to the future forty percent of the time,
Speaker 1: and we actually think about ideas UM when our mind
Speaker 1: is wandering fourteen times as much as when we're focused
Speaker 1: on something. And so this alone is is a reason
Speaker 1: to to have some more space between what you're doing.
Speaker 1: And the third benefit is that it allows us to
Speaker 1: come up with ideas. It allows us to connect the
Speaker 1: information that we consumed last month in a book we
Speaker 1: were reading to a problem we're facing at work and
Speaker 1: have this brilliant Eureka insight in the shower or when
Speaker 1: we're walking to work. Um. And so these three ideas
Speaker 1: is what what makes the mode so powerful? Yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: And so what are ways to get into scatter focused mode?
Speaker 1: The best way is doing something that's habitual, and so
Speaker 1: anything that is simple and habitual doesn't consume our full attention.
Speaker 1: So this is things like UM, taking a shower in
Speaker 1: the morning, UH, swimming laps. It's having our morning coffee
Speaker 1: with just a notepad to capture our thoughts without focusing
Speaker 1: completely on anything. And when we do something habitual, this
Speaker 1: has been shown to lead us to the greatest number
Speaker 1: of creative insights and because it makes it fun and
Speaker 1: so we want her to the future more often. We're
Speaker 1: able to rest better because we regulate our attention less
Speaker 1: often and the idea that we only do one thing.
Speaker 1: This anchors our attention in the moment so that we
Speaker 1: can keep scatter focusing for longer, all while checking up
Speaker 1: on where our attention is at. UH. We we can
Speaker 1: use the mode to also chew over problems, so you know,
Speaker 1: keeping one problem in mind while we go on a
Speaker 1: nature hike, for example, UH can can allow us to
Speaker 1: see it from different angles and approach it from different sides.
Speaker 1: But we can also use it to capture what's on
Speaker 1: our mind just laying down somewhere with a notepad and
Speaker 1: a pen and seeing where our mind wanders off. Too.
Speaker 1: But it's this habitual mode where we're doing something that
Speaker 1: doesn't consume our full attention, but yet anchors us into
Speaker 1: the moment so that that our mind can wander while
Speaker 1: we do it largely on autopilot mode, that we get
Speaker 1: our best ideas and that we plan more and rest
Speaker 1: more too. Wonderful. Well, Chris, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: taking the time to come on the show. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate I've really enjoyed this conversation. Will have links in
Speaker 1: the show notes to where people can find you find
Speaker 1: your book, UM, and as I mentioned, you and I
Speaker 1: will continue this conversation. Listeners, If you want to hear
Speaker 1: the post show conversation, one you feed dot net slash
Speaker 1: support and UM you can get ad free episodes there.
Speaker 1: You can get these post show conversations. You can get
Speaker 1: many episodes and you can listen to them all right
Speaker 1: within your podcast player. So when you feed dot net
Speaker 1: slash Support Chris again, thank you so much. I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Thank you Eric, I love being here all right. Bye.
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