1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:06,039 Speaker 1: Take a journey with me through a staggeringly vast gambling 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Then we're walking through the casino at Foxwoods. We are 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: surrounded by oceans of slot machines. As we make our 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: way around, you can hear a lot of the bells 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: and whistles coming off the off the various slot machines. 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: And it is almost all slot machines that we see here, 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: because slots are where the money is. I personally like 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: playing poker, and I find slot machines to be really tedious. 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: And I never can find the cigarette to hang out 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: of my mouth at exactly the right angle, so I 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: feel like I'm missing out on the full experience. I 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: made it through acres of slots to find myself in 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: a handsomely appointed gambling lounge that's also decidedly old school. 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: And so here we are. There are gigantic television screens 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: on the wall above the bar. There's football matches playing, 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: there's a horse race. There's three dudes at the bar 17 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: pounding some beers. But the guy I'm looking for now 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: is the most senior member of a Native American tribe 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: that runs this cash cow. This is a nice sports book. 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: It's an amazing sports book. The intention here was to 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: make it a destination, and I think we achieve that 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: gamblers replacing bets in person, much like people used to 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: ask bank tellers for cash. If you not rarely step 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: foot into a bank branch, you understand the comparison I'm making. 25 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: Betting at a casino maybe going the same way as 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: banking with a teller. The kids do everything online, and 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: digital gambling mayre have at on traditional wagering venues. But 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: Roddy Butler, my tour guide today at one of the 29 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: biggest casinos in the world, says I'm thinking to apocalyptically. 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: We all thought the internet was going to take out 31 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: everything brick and mortar too, and there is a symbiotic relationship. 32 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: They can coexist, and the human nature is you still 33 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: need some level of interact. Thank god, we still need 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: some level of interaction with other people, and you still 35 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: need see in touch and Fieldings Rodney is the chairman 36 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: of a storied Native American tribe in the US, which 37 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: also happens to own one of the country's most lucrative 38 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: gambling venues, Foxwoods Resort Casino, and he's a believer in 39 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: face to face betting. There's just a comfort level with 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: doing transactions in person then doing them online. They're here 41 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: for the excitement and entertainment. They're not just, you know, 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: the purer sports betting gambler. Welcome to Crash Course, a 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: podcast about business, political, and social disruption and what we 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: can learn from it. I'm Tim O'Brien. It's time for 45 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: the third episode in our series about the past, present, 46 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: and future of the multibillion dollar sports betting boom and 47 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: its impact on games fans in society. Over the last 48 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: two episodes, I've looked at the rise of digital sports 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: gambling and some of the problems of travel with it, 50 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: like match fixing. One thing often overlooked in this conversation 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: the threat the digital boom poses to Native American tribes 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: who now control nearly half of all casino gambling in 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: the US. Rodney Butler and his tribe, the Mashon Tucket 54 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: pea Quats, have overcome a daunting history genocide, expropriation, financial crises, 55 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: and public health threats to find themselves now contending with 56 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: digital upheaval. Can they survive this latest threat? That's the 57 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: focus of today's Crash Course. Tribal casinos versus digital sports gambling. 58 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: A look at the intersection of history, business and disruption 59 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: courtesy of the Peaquat Tribe and Foxwoods. We're standing in 60 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: the lobby of the Peaquat Museum. You must be proud 61 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: of this facility. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's open. It's 62 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: actually a vision long before the Sino came about. I mean, 63 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: you think about the evolution of economic development, starting from 64 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: logging and a sugar shack, you know, producing mable syrup 65 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: in the seventies, to billion dollar gaming enterprise thirty years later. 66 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: Back when we were lumbering, we were thinking about how 67 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: do we share our story and our culture and why? 68 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: You know, why was it important to how's your legacy? 69 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: Just to tell our story? Right? To own our story, 70 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: because at least what people saw publicly our story had 71 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: been written for us. Right. History is always his story, 72 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: written by the by the winner, right of the of 73 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: the the white man right. And so for us it 74 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: is important to be able to tell our story as 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: we know it, which is from our perspective, the accurate 76 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: way to tell it. And the reason why we were 77 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: essentially forgotten about in this part of the state and 78 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: part of the region was because nobody understood our story. 79 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: And that we still existed. The mashion Tucket Peaquat Museum 80 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: and Research Center is just a stone's throw from the casino. 81 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: Like everything else here, it's massive. It's the largest Native 82 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: American museum on the planet. The lavish recreation of a 83 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: Peaquat village, an archaeological find dating back thirteen thousand years, 84 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: prompt Rodney and me to contemplate how cultures get wiped out. 85 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: The communities that lived in these villages, they were having 86 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: they were healthy, everything came naturally, there was less stress, 87 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: a lot of natural remedies, and it was worked. But 88 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: and then they got civilized. And then they got civilized. Yeah, 89 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: they got civilized. Yeah. The Peaquatz had about eight thousand 90 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: members of the tribe and a hundred and sixty tho 91 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: acres of land when they first made contact with European 92 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: colonists in the early sixteen hundreds. Then in sixteen thirty 93 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: six the two year Peaquot War started. It was the 94 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: first major conflict between colonists and native tribes. Unfortunately, the 95 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: next three hundred years was just wash French repeat of 96 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: colonization and just slowly whittling away our land. In this placement, 97 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: slavery and the lack of economic opportunity and so are 98 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, my ancestors had to go find it elsewhere. 99 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: So that's where you see the story of Peaquots leaving 100 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: massion Tucket and leaving southeastern Connecticut because they had to 101 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: feed their children. By the nineteen seventies, only two Peaquats 102 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: lived on the remaining two acres of land. The state 103 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: of Connecticut declared the pea Quats extinct and tried to 104 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: turn their reservation into a state park. We were at 105 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: the cusp of losing the land itself, and that was 106 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: a rallying point for the community that led to where 107 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: we're at today. The Peaquats started a movement to encourage 108 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: expatriots to return home and fight for their tribe survival, 109 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: and it worked. By three both Connecticut and the federal 110 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: government recognized the Peaquats as a sovereign nation. Sovereignty is 111 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: no small matter. Just ask Patrice Knish. Tribes are nations 112 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: within nations. Patrice is the director of a consulting firm 113 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: that works with Native American communities and advocacy groups across 114 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: the country, and she works with the Native American Rights Fund. 115 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: She's also press It in Joe Biden's nominee to Service 116 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: Commissioner for the Administration for Native Americans. There are actually 117 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: three sovereigns in the United States. There's a federal government, 118 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: the state government, and tribal governments. And we have five 119 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: hundred seventies seven federally recognized Native American tribes Alaska Native 120 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: tribes as well. Collectively, they control about sixty million acres 121 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: of trust lands across the United States. But in some cases, 122 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: tribes aren't any more independent from the federal government than 123 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: states are. Tribes have the right to conduct activities on 124 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: these reservation lands, but the federal government is holding out 125 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: sort of primary authority, and so we're also subject to 126 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: a host of treaties and federal statutes and court decisions 127 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: that have defined and circumscribed the scope of that authority. 128 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: When the Pequots earned their federal cognition, they started looking 129 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: into economic opportunities they needed to survive, and at the 130 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: time they really just didn't have a lot of options. 131 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: This is Catherine rand, a law professor at the University 132 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: of North Dakota School of Law and a tribal gambling expert. 133 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: A few tribes began experimenting with high stakes bingo because 134 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: it was a relatively low cost start up. All they 135 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: needed was a bingo blower, some bingo cards, in a 136 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: place to hold the game, and they offered relatively high stakes. 137 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: Bingo gave tribes a taste for fancier forms of gambling, 138 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: and after a series of court battles and the passage 139 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: of a landmark federal law, they began running casinos. Some 140 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: folks have thought about tribal gaming as almost a gift 141 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: to tribes from the federal government in the States, or 142 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: a welfare program, but I don't think that's the right 143 00:08:54,440 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: way to look at it. Tribal gaming started on the 144 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: innovation of tribes themselves exercising sovereign authority that they had 145 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: as recognized by the U. S. Supreme Court. You know 146 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: the old adage the house always wins. Well, Native Americans 147 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: became the house, and for pretty much the first time 148 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: in their history since making contact with the colonists, they 149 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: became the winners of their story. Tribes, accustomed to living 150 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: amid the bleakest forms of poverty, tried to use the 151 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: money to make up for lost time and lost opportunities. 152 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: Here's Patrice Coonish again. The revenues derived from gaming go 153 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: directly to the tribal government, and the tribal government reinvests 154 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: those funds into the tribal community directly by providing essential 155 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: governmental services. This is education and child welfare, This is 156 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: police protection and a tribal court system. These are schools 157 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: and how health care. So the difference is that if 158 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: you're going to a casino in Atlantic City, you are 159 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: putting money into the pockets of a corporation, a private 160 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: corporation and stockholders, where as on a reservation, those funds 161 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: go directly to the community. They are completely reinvested in 162 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: supporting the welfare and well being of the tribal community. 163 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: For all of that, Rodney Butler says casino gambling still 164 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: didn't come easily to his community, as much as people 165 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: want to think that it was preconceived and some people, 166 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: some people have made it out to be that the 167 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: tribe always knew we were going to get into gaming. 168 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it was not even a concept back in 169 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: the seventies. It was never an early eighties even after BINGO. 170 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: So Bingo took a couple of votes of the community 171 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: to even move forward with BINGO, and people were kind 172 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: of happy with that to some degree, and so there 173 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: was conversations about casino, but even that from a community perspective, 174 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: wasn't immediately accept it. And so I think even that 175 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: went through at least one, if not two, different community 176 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: votes before they decided that gaming was rout. We wanted 177 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: to go casino gaming. Those must have an interesting discussion. 178 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: I would I would love to benefly in the wall. 179 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: The Pequatz opened a Bengo hall in just six years later, 180 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: Fox Was opened its doors. That resort would go to 181 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: nine million square feet in the coming years, in other words, 182 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: the equivalent of more than one d and fifty football fields. 183 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: For a time, it featured the world's largest casino. Note 184 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: that I didn't say the largest tribal casino. It was 185 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: the largest casino. Period. There's always ways to improve. What 186 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: other nine million square foot facilities exist in the world. 187 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: That's a good point, Like that's actually mind boggling to 188 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: figure out how to manage something that was such a massive. 189 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: That's a great point. And I just said it like 190 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: it was nothing because that's what we're used to hear. 191 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it is really amazing. And again 192 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: I go back to this their thirtieth anniversary to go 193 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: from tapping maple trees forty years ago, to Bengo to 194 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: a casino, to you know, going back four h years 195 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: living in we two is, to managing nine million square 196 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: feet of facility. It really is an amazing story. It is. 197 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: That's why we're here. After the break, we're going to 198 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: dive into the more recent history of the Pequot tribe 199 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: in the current state of their business at Boxwoods. We'll 200 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: be right back. Ms. Sharon, it's one of our tribal wewlers. 201 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's okay. As I walked around the Peaquat's 202 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: tribal land with Rodney Butler, everyone wanted to say hello 203 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: to him. Of course they did. He's the tribes chairman, 204 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: and he sort of revels in it himself. Just asked 205 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:57,479 Speaker 1: anybody around here? Does he hug everybody? And that's how everybody. 206 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, just only but I do hug it. Yes, yeah. 207 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: Remember I'm a cynical journalist, but I still found all 208 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: of this authentic, even wholesome. Appreciate it all right. Do 209 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: you think about all your employees as members of a family? Always? Always, yeah, 210 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: And I think, um my hope is that they feel 211 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: that too. Um but yeah, I just can't imagine lots 212 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: of hugs going around at your average Atlantic city casino. 213 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: Rodney and his tribe just do things differently For an 214 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: executive in the high stakes, high stressed world of casino gambling. 215 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: He had a very chill vibe, like a happy dude, 216 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: A happy guy. Yeah, yeah, but um yeah, it's enjoyed. 217 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: What do you gotta enjoy life, right, You gotta enjoy 218 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: what you do, be grateful for what you have. You know, 219 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: long before this, when my family had nothing, you would 220 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: have said the same thing. You're a happy guy, Like 221 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: that's just it's who we are. He traces his tribal 222 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: ancestry through his father. The native community in the Northeast 223 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: is very small and a lot of intermarrying between tribes, 224 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: and so I'm actually Western Peaqua, which is mashing talking, 225 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: but I'm also Eastern Peaquad as well, and so growing up, 226 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: my grandmother was on the roles of Eastern Peaqua. I 227 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: mean we're literally a mile and a half apart our 228 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: communities and serves a lot of families going back and forth. 229 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: So my mother is a four ft eleven, blonde hair, 230 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: blue eyed Irish woman so so, yeah, we're definitely mixed. 231 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: What defines a quote unquote Native American is a whole 232 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: can of worms. Back in the nineties, there's more tribes 233 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: started casinos and their business is boomed. Some people questioned 234 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: the heritage of the people cashing in. I mean, you know, 235 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: famously stated by Donald Trump Trump back in the nineties. Right, 236 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: they're not really they don't look like an insto me, well, 237 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: who made you the judgment jury of who's Indian? Who's not? Right? 238 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: As an aside, this isn't hyperbole. Donald Trump was a 239 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: casino opportunist in the nineties and he didn't think it 240 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: was fair that tribal casinos might cut into his business. 241 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt of his testimony to Congress. They don't 242 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: look like Indians to me, and they don't look like 243 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: Indians to Indians. And a lot of people are laughing 244 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: at it, and you're telling how tough it is, how 245 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: rough it is to get approved where you go up 246 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: to Connecticut and you look. Now, they don't look like 247 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: Indians to me, sir. Thank god. That's not the test 248 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: of whether or not people have rights in this country 249 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: or not, whether or not they pass your look test. 250 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: Perhaps Trump was reveling in this kind of bigotry and 251 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: silliness because his own casino operations were on a steady 252 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: path towards bankruptcy. Every competitor was threatening, especially tribal casinos. 253 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: We were, you know, fighting against some of the commercial 254 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: anities that were trying to come into Connecticut and saying, 255 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't do that, Like I can't pick 256 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: up mash and Tucket and move it to another state, 257 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: right exactly. I just like, we are here, and we've 258 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: been here, and we're gonna be here, you know, to 259 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: the eternity. So that must be a good feeling, the 260 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: idea that it will be here till eternity, given that 261 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: it was on a knife sudgest to whether or not 262 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: it would even exist at all at one point it is. 263 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: Foxwoods grew exponentially in the nineties and early two thousands. 264 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: Casinos in general were booming, and I saw it firsthand. 265 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: I visited Foxwoods for the first time while I was 266 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: writing a book about gambling, and while the Mississippi River, 267 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: the Gulf Coast, Las Vegas, Atlantic City, and tribal lands 268 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: were all teeming with new casinos. Foxwoods had so much 269 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: money coming in that it almost didn't know what to 270 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: do with it. The Pequots were living large, finally reaping 271 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: the rewards of their land. At some point, things come 272 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: so easy, you take things for granted, and you kind 273 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: of forget what's important. So I started on council in 274 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and four. I was at the tail end 275 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: of you know this incredible yeah, the first boom, the 276 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: incredible era of you know, there's no competition, the world's great, 277 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: everyone's making money, world world, all that fun stuff, And 278 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: I was treasure at the time. When the O eight 279 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: crash happened, that was the end of my second term 280 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: on council, and then that's when I became chair just 281 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: after that. So I've basically had to managing guide the 282 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: nation through the most difficult years, at least of the 283 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: most recent era. The tribe's first big test came during 284 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight financial crisis, when Foxwoods flirted 285 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: with bankruptcy. People like to glorify or gloat that, you know, 286 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: this tribe was going through this, but the world, the 287 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: world was going in the world, not just country. The 288 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: world was people for whatever reason, looked at the commercial 289 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: operators differently than the tribal operators, and I think they 290 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: actually enjoyed look exactly. To be sure, Fox Was created 291 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: many of its own problems. Rodney likens those boom years 292 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: to the moment when a young professional athlete signs a 293 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: big contract, the money comes roaring in, and then they 294 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: just start buying whatever they can. You don't have to think, 295 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: should we build this huge hotel tower, Do we need 296 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: nine million square feet with the facilities on our property? 297 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: Can we support a workforce of people? You don't have 298 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: to think. You just hand over the credit card. You 299 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: don't have to think until all those massive bills start 300 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: coming to Foxwoods had borrowed billions of dollars that it 301 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: was unable to pay back. It's not the best way 302 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: to run a business. You know. This is about our 303 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: economy and survival, and we had to figure out how 304 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: to do more with less. And that applied to everything 305 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: we did because we had excess not only in our 306 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: enterprises but also in the government and some of our 307 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: services and programs, and so everything just became much more 308 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: laser focused. It was all about outcomes and data and 309 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: processes and improvement as opposed to just throwing money at 310 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: every problem that we could think of. So they scaled 311 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 1: back and focused on the basics chris financial management and 312 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: clear headed accounting. They brought in partners who understood some 313 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: parts of the business better than they did. They diversified 314 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: their offerings, and they invested in long term rainy day 315 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: funds so their community could weather future storms. But nobody 316 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: could have predicted that a pandemic would come their way. 317 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: A little more than a decade later, when we came 318 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: across the COVID pandemic, it almost felt like oh eight 319 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: all over again. And I think having a few of 320 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: us around the experience and lived through eight, it was 321 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: easier to manage COVID in that sense, like you know what, 322 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: it's insane right now. Nobody knows what's happening. But let's 323 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: just take a deep breath. We've been here before. Let's 324 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: just laser in and focus. Let's take the noise out, 325 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: find our g and just focus. And did that work? 326 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: And it did? It? Did? They overcame the pandemic the 327 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: way they've overcome everything else by hunkering down and planning 328 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: long term. Hotel guests, diners, and gamblers eventually started coming back, 329 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: and some of the experiments from the past like an 330 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: early dive into digital gambling, have allowed them to think 331 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: creatively about how to compete with the sports betting explosion. 332 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: Unlike many tribes, the Pequots have embraced the future rather 333 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: than avoid it. We've realized that internet gaming was too 334 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: complex from a legal perspective, and so we actually launched 335 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: a social gaming company maybe eight or nine years ago now, 336 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: just to get in front like a fantasy kind of 337 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: played for fun, and it still exists today. It actually, 338 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: surprisingly it makes a little bit of money too, So 339 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of a test case to 340 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: just get ready for her again because we were also 341 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: very optimistic that we could figure it out ten years ago, 342 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: and so in the meantime, we learned a lot about 343 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: going online, we learned a lot about the interaction with 344 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: retail play, and we were making money at the same time. 345 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: So it was like a triple win there. That was 346 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: just a test case. Though when we it back from 347 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: the break, we'll look more at the future of this 348 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: tribal casino and the existential crisis I think it might 349 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: face with the advent of digital gambling. We'll be right back. 350 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: As I was driving up to Foxwoods, I couldn't stop 351 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: thinking about the brutal history and deprivation the Peaquots have endured. 352 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: And I had survival on my mind when I was 353 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: walking around the museum with Rodney. That survival is built 354 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: in we call it peakat perseverance. That perseverance was just 355 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: it just innate in us. That kind of drives who 356 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: we are. It drives them to move past financial crises 357 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: and pandemics. We've been through a lot worse. Our ancestors 358 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: came out of the fire. We can come through a small, 359 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: small financial crisis. We'll be fine because we've done it before. 360 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: Most Americans may not realize it, but the industry that 361 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: Peaquats and other tribes have built is huge. Native Americans 362 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: now run about half of the national gambling market, or 363 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: about forty billion in casino revenue. But even with all 364 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: that money, most tribes are still mired in poverty. To 365 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: make a real go in the gambling business, tribes need 366 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: to be located near big cities. Like the pe Quats, 367 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: They're perfectly situated between New York City and Boston. Tribe 368 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: scraping by and remote reservations don't have that advantage, and 369 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: tribes in your big cities can still find themselves competing 370 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: with one another. There's just two fairly recognized tribes in Connecticut. 371 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: There are a hundred in California. And so what works 372 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: for one tribe is not going to work for every tribe, 373 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: and what works for every tribe is not going to 374 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: work for that one tribe that wants to do it different. 375 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: And there's so many environmental nuances that make what we 376 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: do here functional, but it might not be functional in Florida, 377 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: and the structure here certainly doesn't work in California or 378 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: in Arizona with seventeen tribes. All that competition means that 379 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: being early and being innovative are musts. When the gold 380 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: rush happen in calif Arena, you know, the ones that 381 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 1: were there first made a lot of money, and then 382 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: everybody else flooded the market and then we're all making 383 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: a smaller slice of that saying that slam pie right. 384 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: Same thing with gaming, So you have to think beyond 385 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: gaming or innovation and gaming, but then beyond gaming. And 386 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: so for us, it's important for us to diversify our economy. 387 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: Obviously outside of brick and mortar to go online sports betting, 388 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: but we have other economic ventures that we've been pursuing 389 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: to try to flatten out that curve of the gaming industry. 390 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: Let's back up for a moment. After spending the morning 391 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: with Rodney at the museum, I asked if we could 392 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: relocate to the casino and talk more about the business. 393 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: Rodney suggested Boxwood's new Sports Book. That's where I took you, 394 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: my dear audience. At the start of this episode, the 395 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: lounge and bar where TV screens were blaring with the 396 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: voices of sports announcers and a smattering of gamblers were 397 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: laying down bets. The sports book is a partnership between 398 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: Foxwoods and Draft Kings, one of the biggest sports betting 399 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: companies in the US. Rodney says, the founders of Draft 400 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: Kings went to school in New England, and they even 401 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: used to play poker at Foxwoods, and so I think 402 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: that familiarity with the property, they understood our brand. They 403 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: obviously know a lot about us as a tribe. It 404 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: made the conversation that much easier to talk about what 405 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: we could do together because they could see our vision 406 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: and we could see theirs. Foxwoods has learned the value 407 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: of partnerships, but this one stands out to me. Because 408 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: I wonder if they're letting the Fox into the henhouse. 409 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: Consider the Peak Wats used their legislative and financial muscle 410 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: to help convince Connecticut to legalize sports betting. And then 411 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: there's this. It opened its fancy sports book in a 412 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: partnership with Draft Kings, allowing digital bets to be made 413 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: at their brick and mortar casino. Foxwoods offers the venue, 414 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: Draft Kings provides the sports betting pipeline, But in my mind, 415 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: the digital betting tsunami the Peakquats are helping to foster 416 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: could easily overwhelm old fashioned casinos. Fox was included. After all, 417 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: if everyone can have a casino in their pocket and 418 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: watch sports from the comfort of their own homes, why 419 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: would they bother driving here? Remember Blair from the first 420 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: episode of the series. He could make a pretty penny 421 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: just sitting on his couch. Fox Was runs a nice 422 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: sports book, Don't get me wrong, but it's not like 423 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: being at home. While Rodney is confident that in person 424 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: gambling isn't going to evaporate, he and his tribe are 425 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: not just sitting idly by. I can't think of many 426 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: tribes who've launched their own digital enterprise, But the Pequats 427 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: have it's called Wonder Nation and it houses online gambling 428 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: ventures offering everything but sports betting. For that, they're sticking 429 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: with DraftKings. We don't want to compete with Draft Kings, right, 430 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: I mean, that's our partner. Rodney says it's good for 431 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: their business. But I couldn't help thinking about other looming 432 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: issues We've already discussed in the first two episodes of 433 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: our series. Could the digital sports betting boom lead to 434 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: more match fixing? Could it lead to more gambling addictions? Well, 435 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: of course, it's just math. The more people value touch, 436 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: you're going to have more compulsive gambles. But our percentage basis, 437 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: it's what we're already experiencing. X per cent of the 438 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: population have that compulsive gene in them. Whether it's gambling, 439 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: whether it's drinking, whether it's smoking or what have you. 440 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: It's human nature. It's like, we're not going to change biology. 441 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: It's just it is what it is. We just have 442 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: to build the best protections that we can to prevent it. 443 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: But it's still gonna happen. It really is going to happen, 444 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: and probably far more frequently and with more devastating consequences 445 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: than most Americans realize. I reached out to Keith White 446 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: for his thoughts on all of this. He's the executive 447 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: director of the NCPG, the National Council on Problem Gambling, 448 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: and he's been looking at the personal, social, and economic 449 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: costs of gambling for a long time. We don't think 450 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: people have a handle on it, and many communities are 451 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: not taking the step they need, so we've layered additional 452 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: risk on top of a very ill prepared system. According 453 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: to various studies, only a small percentage of gamblers, maybe 454 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: one to two, have hard core problems with wagering, but 455 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: that statistic is based on backward looking research. The new 456 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: sports gambling boom is expected to inflate those numbers and 457 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: affect millions of people, and CpG studies back up that thesis, 458 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: and Keith says very little is being done to prevent 459 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: and treat gambling problems. Less than one tenth of one 460 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: percent of legalized gambling revenue goes towards treating its inevitable fallouts. 461 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: That's not a lot of dedication to the very real 462 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: human costs gambling imposes. Rodney says Foxwoods is committing hundreds 463 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars the problem gambling organizations in Connecticut, 464 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: and it's helping academics with research. Still, Keith says Casino's 465 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: dedication to treating problem gambling is more the exception than 466 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: the rule. The general thrust in the gambling industry to 467 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: date has been we pay taxes, and so state government 468 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: is responsible for people's gambling problems. You know, we're a company. 469 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: We're gonna do what we do. There has been a 470 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: renaissance and responsive gambling. More and more companies are engaging 471 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: in more and more projects, and I think there's a 472 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: lot of positive steps that companies have taken, but it's uneven. 473 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: This is a particularly sensitive topic in tribal communities. A 474 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: recent study found that Native Americans experienced problem gambling that 475 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: more than double the rate of adults in the US, 476 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: about two point three percent of Native Americans compared to 477 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: about one percent of overall adults. They also have the 478 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: highest rates of alcohol and substance abuse disorders. But there's 479 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: nothing inherently Native about these struggles. Experts say that historical trauma, poverty, 480 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: low levels of education, and high levels of unemployment all 481 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: contribute to these high rates of compulsive tendencies in the 482 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: Native American community. What can be done about it is 483 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: not as clear. Here's Keith again. We believe that tribes 484 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: who are historically under resourced in all health areas are 485 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: under resourced also in prevention treatment of gambling problems. We 486 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: know that there's not a lot of culturally specific research 487 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: to show what might be done better to reach folks 488 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: on the reservation or to reach tribal individuals, And that's 489 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: a paradigm of good public health is that you have 490 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: to be culturally specific. So we think already most tribes, 491 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: most reservations are in a deficit. Rodney says that addressing 492 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: addiction is a priority for the Pea Quats and their 493 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: lucrative gambling operation. For the first time in Foxwood's history, 494 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: the casino CEO is a Pea quad. Two thirds of 495 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: the company's senior leadership is also made up of tribal members. 496 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: So addiction is an issue that hits close to home. 497 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: It's real, we have to face it, but it's a 498 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: percentage of the population, and the majority of folks that 499 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: are doing any of these things are really for enjoyment 500 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: and entertainment. And Rodney remains confident that his tribe is 501 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: well positioned to either absorb or fend off online competition 502 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: and protect the three and a half billion dollar investment 503 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: is made over the years in Connecticut. The way that 504 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: we've structured digital in Connecticut was thoughtful in anticipation of 505 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: some level of cannibalization, and so we feel like we've 506 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of balanced it in a way that symbiotic works together. 507 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: Like we're now touching players in the state that we've 508 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: never touched or we have like once a year, once 509 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: every five years coming through the property. And so we've 510 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: looked at it as a way to extend our footprint. 511 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: Because nobody knows what the future of digital is. We 512 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: know where we're at now. I mean, the way the 513 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: market evaluations are oppressed. What if we picked up a 514 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: large online gaming company next month, we double our revenues 515 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: and we do it in the in a year. But 516 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's not our plan, although could be, 517 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: you never know. I think the story of tribal casinos 518 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: colliding with digital gambling may have more dire consequences than 519 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: even someone is thoughtful and talented, as Rodney suspects, and 520 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: even he is a realist about how much gambling can 521 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: actually do to solve broader problems that most Native Americans 522 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: still face. We will never take it for granted that 523 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: we are incredibly blessed at Pequat being right place, right time, 524 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: right location. And there are many many tribes that like sheer. 525 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: Survival is what they wake up to every single day, 526 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: and so they're not at that point which they can 527 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: think about how do we diversify. They don't have the resources. 528 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: They're still dealing with a generational trauma that we all 529 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: have at large, but more so frontline for them. And 530 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: that was one of the challenges that Indian country face. 531 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: With the success of someone like us or Seminal or 532 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: some of the California tribes, the country at large will 533 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: paint a broad brush and say, well, every tribe, they 534 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: all have the casinos, they're all great, they're all successful. 535 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: It's not the reality amid that broader struggle. Rodney is 536 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: still proud that the pea Quats can take a hard 537 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: one victory lap. Many tribes are struggling, but the pea 538 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: Quats definitely aren't. They've been smart about diversification, and they're 539 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: watching the digital gambling revolution closely. Instead of closing the 540 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: door to digital They've actively embraced it, They're excited about it, 541 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: they have a plan, and they want everyone to give 542 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: credit where credit is due. We know what we're doing, 543 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: We've been doing it for decades now, and in many 544 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: instances we do it better than many of the commercial operators, 545 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: certainly on far with the commercial operators. Here at crash Course, 546 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: we believe that collisions can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising, 547 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: and always instructive. In today's crash Course, I learned that 548 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: the pea quats are even more uniqu than I already 549 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: knew them to be. They're the rare business owners who 550 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: have learned from their mistakes and are still around to 551 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: talk about them. But I still wonder if even they 552 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: are prepared for the digital betting whirlwind. I was also 553 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: reminded the problem gambling is a real problem, especially in 554 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: minority communities that must be taken seriously. If you or 555 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: someone you know is struggling with problem gambling. The National 556 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: Council and Problem Gambling offers a confidential twenty four hour 557 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: helpline at five to two four seven. You can find 558 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: more resources at their website NCP gambling dot org. What 559 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: did you learn We'd love to hear from you. You 560 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion handle at Opinion or 561 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: me at Tim O'Brien using the hashtag Bloomberg Crash Course. 562 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening 563 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: right now and leave us a review. It helps more 564 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: people find the show. This episode was produced by the 565 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: indispensable Anna Maazarakis and me. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson, 566 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: and we had editing help from Katie Boyce, Jeff Grocott, 567 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: Mike Nizza, Christine van den Billard and Atika Valbron. Blake 568 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: Maples does our sound engineering, and our original theme song 569 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: was composed by Luis Gara. I'm Tim O'Brien. Thanks for 570 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: joining us for this first special narrative series. We'll be 571 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: back next week with another Crash Course