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Speaker 1: Stay tuned.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into the conversation right after these quick ads.

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Speaker 1: Oh, rain drops, we have a doozy today.

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Speaker 2: Look, The Kardashians is one of my favorite reality shows,

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Speaker 2: and now that this season finale has aired, I want

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Speaker 2: to recap the entire season, but I want to dissect

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Speaker 2: this season in a way that I haven't done on

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Speaker 2: the other shows. We recap on Reality with the King,

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Speaker 2: but I could not do this episode alone. I am

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Speaker 2: joined by MJ, who is a therapist a writer in

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Speaker 2: New York City and she's also a Kardashian connoisseur. She

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Speaker 2: has a social media page that's dedicated to all things

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Speaker 2: Kardashian and honey, she knows more about the Kardashians than

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Speaker 2: ray J.

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Speaker 1: So welcome the podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. That was a great intro.

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Speaker 1: So let's get right into an MJ. I like you.

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Speaker 2: I am a huge Kardashian fan. I just I love

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Speaker 2: the show. Now that they're on Hulu, they have two

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Speaker 2: seasons that has aired so far.

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Speaker 1: Season two just wrapped recently.

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Speaker 2: And I want to talk about whether or not we

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Speaker 2: think it is time for the Kardashians to hang it

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Speaker 2: up based on the fact that we all fell in

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Speaker 2: love with the show when they were on e for

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Speaker 2: Oh my Gosh, I think fourteen seasons or something like that,

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Speaker 2: and now that they're on Hulu, I feel like, as

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Speaker 2: much as I love all the Girls, the show is

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Speaker 2: not the same anymore.

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Speaker 1: But let me get your thoughts on it.

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Speaker 2: Do you think the Kardashians on Hulu is a good show?

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Speaker 4: Great question, And one of the most interesting things about

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Speaker 4: I work and my account is that I get to

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Speaker 4: see the different discourse about the show. So I'm seeing

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Speaker 4: different factions of people saying, well, most people are saying

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Speaker 4: it's boring.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people are feeling like it's boring.

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Speaker 4: For my purposes, because what I kind of do is

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Speaker 4: I examine the Kardashians using postmodern philosophy and media theory.

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Speaker 4: So for my purposes, there's been a lot of like

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Speaker 4: rich material because it's a very meta show. It's a

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Speaker 4: very self referential show, and it's really, to me, a

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Speaker 4: reality show about a reality show, which is kind of

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Speaker 4: the essence of postmodernism. So for me, it's been giving

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Speaker 4: me good stuff. For a lot of people, I think

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Speaker 4: it's been boring, and it's because it's so curated, it's

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Speaker 4: so polished, and it doesn't quite have that sisterly charm

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Speaker 4: that it did throughout its trajectory on E for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, I am considered the king of reality television,

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Speaker 2: not just because I know all things Housewives, but because

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Speaker 2: I know all things reality television, and I gotta be

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Speaker 2: honest with you, MJ. We fell in love with the

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Speaker 2: Kardashians on E because of the access of their personal lives.

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Speaker 2: We were able to see Kimberly Noel Kardashian call Reggie

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Speaker 2: Bush on speaker and say your fucking worse, You're cheating

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Speaker 2: on me, and we.

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Speaker 1: Were like, girl, are you really doing this on camera?

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Speaker 1: Like what's going on?

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Speaker 2: We saw Courtney deal with a drunk Scott Dissick. We

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Speaker 2: saw Courtney tell Scott I love.

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Speaker 1: My son more than you right.

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Speaker 2: We saw Chloe get married within thirty days of meeting

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Speaker 2: lamar Odom and they had to spin off. We were

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Speaker 2: able to see Bruce Jenner transition into Caitlin. We were

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Speaker 2: able to see these very deep, rich stories and as

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Speaker 2: somebody who loves the girls, as I'm watching the Kardashians

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Speaker 2: on Hulu, to me, it's like one big fucking commercial. Yes,

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Speaker 2: much as we were able to see products in the

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Speaker 2: business and the brand's boom when it was on E.

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Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, I'm not as invested anymore. Because, yes,

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Speaker 2: it's cute to see you guys get dressed up to

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Speaker 2: go to the magala. It's nice to see you know. Look,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna lie itning nice, but.

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Speaker 4: Understandably it's not relatable. And and what you just listed,

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Speaker 4: that was a great walk through the archive of some

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Speaker 4: greatest hits from the Kardashians during their rise to media dominance.

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Speaker 4: But now they're here, they have dominated, and I agree.

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Speaker 4: I think that the structure of the show was always

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Speaker 4: like a home movies and commercialized like hybrid, but it's

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Speaker 4: all commercial now. It's impossible to get lost in a

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Speaker 4: sense of reality. And the peel of reality TV, I think,

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Speaker 4: is noticing those moments when something feels really, really real,

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Speaker 4: even though it's coming through a screen. Once something gets

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Speaker 4: me through a screen, it loses some piece of reality.

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Speaker 4: It's become constructed. But those sound bites of Courtney telling

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Speaker 4: Scott that about her feelings about her son, and those

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Speaker 4: those nitty gritty psychological family dynamics were the secret sauce.

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Speaker 4: I think of the show and the wit and the

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Speaker 4: charm and the and the jokes, the really memeable moments,

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Speaker 4: But what can we mean about what we're seeing now

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Speaker 4: Kim putting on the Maryland dress and saying she's not

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Speaker 4: sure if she's going to fit into it. So it's true,

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Speaker 4: there's not much for our humanity to like latch onto

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Speaker 4: and what we're seeing now. And I also think they

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Speaker 4: don't even.

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Speaker 3: Have besides Chloe.

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Speaker 4: Chloe's, like I told someone recently in an interview, like

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Speaker 4: the golden Goose of the show, because the Tristan drama

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Speaker 4: is I think unmistakably real. We don't know how much

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Speaker 4: is being shaped, you know, But that's kind of all

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Speaker 4: they have to offer us.

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Speaker 3: Kim's stuff is.

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Speaker 4: Has to kind of stay behind the scenes and controlled

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Speaker 4: and curated. Kylie's stuff is too real. World is too real.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't get any more real than mass death. And

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Speaker 4: so Chloe has the good, juicy classic I got cheated on,

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Speaker 4: and people can kind of relate to this and judge

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Speaker 4: it and whatever their things are about it. But I

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Speaker 4: don't know if they have interpersonal drama even delivered to

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Speaker 4: us anymore. Like they're running a tight ship. I think

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Speaker 4: they smooth out their stuff and they can't even deliver

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Speaker 4: us as old fights of like Tim's makeup on the wall,

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Speaker 4: when Courtney like swingings that are like I think that

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Speaker 4: they are too elite now to get caught up in

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Speaker 4: that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Therefore they can't give it to us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my question for you is this, Knowing that

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Speaker 2: we all fell in love with the girls based on

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Speaker 2: what they brought us, I got a feeling that possibly

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Speaker 2: the folks over at Hulu, who shelled out millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars to retain the global brand of this

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Speaker 2: show may not be receiving the ratings they thought they

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Speaker 2: were going to receive. And I'm asking that question based

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Speaker 2: on a recent tweet that Kimberly Noel car Ardashian tweeted

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Speaker 2: on November twenty fourth, which was the day the season

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Speaker 2: two finale aired.

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Speaker 1: She tweeted, what do you.

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Speaker 2: Guys want to see for season three of The Kardashians.

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Speaker 2: Do you guys like family stuff, work stuff, kids stuff,

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes of shoots, family pranks? Question Mark and

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Speaker 2: Kim got read for filth because everyone responded to say, no, bitch,

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Speaker 2: we want to see what happened with you and Pete Davison,

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Speaker 2: what's going on with you and Kanye West?

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Speaker 1: We haven't seen Scott Disick.

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Speaker 2: If I see one more tongue makeout session between Courtney

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Speaker 2: and Travis, like, seriously, I'm over it. We want to

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Speaker 2: see listen. I would have liked to see a little

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Speaker 2: bit of the Astor World drama in terms of how

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Speaker 2: Colli was dealing with it. We haven't seen any of

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Speaker 2: those things, MJ. So when Kim tweeted that, as a producer,

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Speaker 2: it made me think, I don't know if the show

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Speaker 2: is getting the reception they thought they were.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think that tweet was about?

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Speaker 3: My take on that tweet is and I am curious too.

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Speaker 4: And Disney doesn't release their views or their their data.

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Speaker 4: So they did try to hype the show with season

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Speaker 4: one by saying season one of the Kardashians was in

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Speaker 4: the premiere episode record breaking globally, So they tell us that,

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Speaker 4: but we can't verify it with season two, and then

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Speaker 4: Kim tweeting this, Yeah, I don't know how to speculate

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Speaker 4: about how the show is doing. But I do think

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Speaker 4: when Kim treats her audience like a focus group, it's

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Speaker 4: a way to make us feel like empowered viewers, and

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Speaker 4: she's done this in the past.

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Speaker 3: I have to go track.

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Speaker 4: Down the interview, but there was some interview during her

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Speaker 4: climb to dominance. It was like, I think in like

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Speaker 4: the mid aughts, like maybe like a twenty ten, maybe

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Speaker 4: potentially up to twenty sixteen, somewhere between that timeline. She

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Speaker 4: said something like, I love being a social media star

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Speaker 4: because I can reach my audience directly and get their

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Speaker 4: thoughts and their ideas and their takes. Someone in one

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Speaker 4: of my comments said something like she did the same

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Speaker 4: thing after the kimono drama. She asked people what she

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Speaker 4: should rename the brand when she had to take down

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Speaker 4: the kimono name, and apparently someone said skims. Then it

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Speaker 4: got a lot of our skim or something, and it

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Speaker 4: got a lot of likes. So so there were fan

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Speaker 4: theories that that fan named Skims. I think the name

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Speaker 4: of the Kardashian game or any like true media icons

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Speaker 4: game will have to be especially as media technology brings

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Speaker 4: us closer to the things we're watching, Like social media

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Speaker 4: makes us feel really close to in reality TV, whatever's

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Speaker 4: entertaining us, they need to make us feel like we're

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Speaker 4: interacting with them. So I think it's the least a

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Speaker 4: strategy to pull the viewers in, especially since there must

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Speaker 4: be a sense that they're losing people. And I really

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Speaker 4: kind of suspect that season three is already being shot anyway,

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Speaker 4: and the things she listed are probably already going to

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Speaker 4: be in are already in the queue, the work and

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Speaker 4: the pranks.

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Speaker 2: You know, yes, sin because she tweeted behind the scenes shoots,

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Speaker 2: family pranks, kids stuff. And I want to say, no, bitch,

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Speaker 2: we want to see the drama. We want to see

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Speaker 2: what we where we're reading on People magazine, the Shade Room,

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Speaker 2: the Jasmine brand, like, that's the stuff we want to see.

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Speaker 2: And I listen, I agree with you, Kim is her mastermind.

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Speaker 2: At tweeting to her focus group, I thought it was

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Speaker 2: very interesting that she omitted drama, that she omitted real

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Speaker 2: life stuff, like I think for her and the family

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Speaker 2: that stuff may be off limits. Which is why And

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Speaker 2: again this is my opinion as someone who loves the

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Speaker 2: show and loves the family. When they announced they were

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Speaker 2: leaving E, I thought to myself, that's a very good

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Speaker 2: choice because the past couple of seasons on E wasn't great.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't and it wasn't great because they're so famous

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Speaker 2: that they now actually care about how their real life

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Speaker 2: stuff is going to affect their business, which I respected

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Speaker 2: in the sense of, I'd rather you leave the show

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Speaker 2: on a somewhat high knowing that we've given you, guys,

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Speaker 2: fourteen seasons of our lives, and we gave you everything,

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Speaker 2: and at some point you grow up, you have children,

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Speaker 2: and you make the choice to say do I want

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Speaker 2: to do this anymore? Which is why I always respect

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Speaker 2: the Courtney for being honest.

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Speaker 1: About I don't like this shit anymore.

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Speaker 2: Because let's be clear, Courtney Kardashian and Scott Dissick carried

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Speaker 2: the majority of keeping up the Kardashians with their drama,

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Speaker 2: so I always felt like Courtney had every right to

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Speaker 2: say I don't want to do the shit anymore, and

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Speaker 2: I thought they were going to leave. So when it

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Speaker 2: was released in the press that they got to deal

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Speaker 2: with Hulu, I remember thinking to myself, is this just

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Speaker 2: a money grab or is this something to where they're

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Speaker 2: going to show us something different? And as I watched

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Speaker 2: season one and season two, they are showing us something different.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not sure that we like it totally.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you that.

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Speaker 4: The timing of ending with e and they like they

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Speaker 4: didn't let us know that there's a plan for a

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Speaker 4: return was it felt like they were even though people,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's so divisive, so a lot of people

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Speaker 4: were ready.

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Speaker 3: For them to be off the air.

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Speaker 4: In a way, it was like they were leaving without

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Speaker 4: overstaying their welcome kind of thing, Like there was a

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Speaker 4: whole you know, there's a whole social shift happening during

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Speaker 4: the pandemic, and it seemed like they kind of knew

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Speaker 4: when to bout out so to come back. It was

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Speaker 4: sort of like the Kardashians have no intention of ever

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Speaker 4: ceasing in their visibility. And that's the name of Kim's

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Speaker 4: game is visibility at whatever cost. And the scandals still

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Speaker 4: benefit Kim because it's her name just in front of us.

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Speaker 4: My theory with the Hulu show is this five year contract.

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Speaker 3: It's an interesting number. It's like an interesting chunk of time.

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Speaker 4: It's just enough time to watch a group of people

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Speaker 4: transition into new roles. So I feel like we're never

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Speaker 4: going to see too much gnarly Kim drama at this

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Speaker 4: point because you know, all the discourse that we see

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Speaker 4: online of is she going to run for president?

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Speaker 3: Is she gonna move What is she going to do

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Speaker 3: with this law degree when she gets it?

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Speaker 4: Like the transcendence of Kim Kardashian as we know her

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Speaker 4: is on its way in some capacity, And I think

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Speaker 4: Chloe's going to shift into this love utante status that

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Speaker 4: Kim had for so long.

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Speaker 3: And we're seeing shifting roles.

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Speaker 4: So I think by the end of five years, the

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Speaker 4: five year run of this show, we're going to realize

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Speaker 4: that the show was a vehicle for those changes. And

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Speaker 4: I don't know if we're ever going to see anything

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Speaker 4: too raw from Kim because of whatever she's got her

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Speaker 4: eye on for the big picture, and.

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Speaker 2: What do you think that big picture is for Kim?

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Speaker 4: I am not going to, like definitively predict she's going

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Speaker 4: to run for president, but I think it's really I

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Speaker 4: think it's really interesting that that's finally kind of becoming

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Speaker 4: more of a discourse. There's a lot of reasons to

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Speaker 4: think that politics are going to at least be a

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Speaker 4: domain she's adjacent too, because I think she's trying to

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Speaker 4: become at the least a multi genre icon where she

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Speaker 4: covers politics and philanthropy and fashion high fashion, but still

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Speaker 4: like mal friendly, accessible fashion as well.

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Speaker 3: I think Kanye used to talk a lot.

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Speaker 4: In terms of I am the brand, I'm like Apple,

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Speaker 4: I'm like Nike, and I think he laid a blueprint

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Speaker 4: that Kim will eventually actualize. I think Kim will almost

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Speaker 4: be up with the Nike in the Apple and like

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Speaker 4: the household name, global name of a certain kind of

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Speaker 4: corporate icon.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know if it'll.

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Speaker 4: Be political, but I do think that it's really interesting

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Speaker 4: that she's had increasing adjacency to the political establishment. It's

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Speaker 4: going to just be something very conceptual, very big, very corporate.

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Speaker 1: That's going to be interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, can I love you?

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Speaker 2: I do not want you to running for president, girl,

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Speaker 2: I think listen, I want you to run for president

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Speaker 2: of the Bad Bish Committee, but to run for president

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Speaker 2: of the United States of America. No, thank you, babe.

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Speaker 2: Do not want to see it? No thanks.

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Speaker 1: I hate to interrupt, but stay tuned for more.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back after these quick asss. This is

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Speaker 2: Reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get

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Speaker 2: back into the show as we sort of wrap up

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Speaker 2: Season two of the Kardashians. What were your favorite moments

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Speaker 2: from this past season.

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Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, that's a good question, m J.

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Speaker 1: You got to think about a girl that means it.

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Speaker 4: Because for me, the best parts are the most metaparts

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Speaker 4: that I can really think my teeth into and like

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Speaker 4: apply philosophy to, which sounds so pretentious, and I don't

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Speaker 4: mean it that way. I just I think if I

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Speaker 4: wasn't watching it with the lens of like media analysis.

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Speaker 3: I probably would have been bored too.

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Speaker 4: So I'm trying to think of I thought more recently,

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Speaker 4: just because it's fresh in my mind, Chris feeding CC

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Speaker 4: lines or seeming to be feeding CC lines at their

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Speaker 4: Caver lunch in Paris was hilarious. I thought the tension

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Speaker 4: was hilarious. I thought it was kind of chilling. So

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Speaker 4: I enjoyed that that was more recent to mine.

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Speaker 2: So, MJ, we gotta let my listeners know exactly what CC,

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Speaker 2: who is Chris's cousin they were in Paris. MJ is

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Speaker 2: talking about the finale episode, and it's funny you brought

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Speaker 2: that up, so please inform my listeners of what your

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Speaker 2: talking about and what CC said to Chris that I

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Speaker 2: was like, this is actually pretty bad ass, but continue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So what I got out of the scene is

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Speaker 4: Chris is really trying to. They're having a conversation about

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Speaker 4: what it means for CC to be in Paris with

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Speaker 4: the family.

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Speaker 3: CEC's always loved fashion.

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Speaker 4: Now she gets to be front row at at high

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Speaker 4: fashion couture show, and Chris clearly has a narrative agenda

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Speaker 4: in the scene.

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Speaker 3: She's saying, how.

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Speaker 4: Wonderful that Kim can do so much. She does it all,

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Speaker 4: and she's even inviting you, Cec. She knows how much

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Speaker 4: you wanted this, and CEC is not quite getting the message.

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Speaker 4: She keeps going to like other things, like I've always

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Speaker 4: loved fashion, so it means so much. And there's a

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Speaker 4: moment where Chris kind of gives her like a like look,

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Speaker 4: like just say the fucking line, just say that. It's

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Speaker 4: like great that Kim did this. And I love that

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Speaker 4: because it brought back that old keeping up with the

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Speaker 4: Kardashians appeal power of like noticing when a really real

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Speaker 4: moment got through the construct of the scene. But then

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Speaker 4: CEC does come through, I think in an unpredicted, unforeseen

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Speaker 4: way where she says you did all of this to Chris.

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Speaker 4: She says that they came to the top because of you,

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Speaker 4: So she really acknowledges Chris's role as a momager, and

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Speaker 4: I kind of felt, I don't know if I was

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Speaker 4: overreading into it that Chris was able to let go

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Speaker 4: of her narrative agenda because she was getting her props,

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Speaker 4: but it was. It was an interesting moment, and CEC

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Speaker 4: called Kim a superhero, which was relevant to me as

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Speaker 4: a writer because I actually wrote a big piece about

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Speaker 4: how Kim Kardashian is situated as a superhero archetype and

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Speaker 4: culture right now. But it was it was a There

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Speaker 4: was a lot that seemed packed to punch for me

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Speaker 4: for sure.

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Speaker 1: Now that is so funny. So I'm gonta be honest

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: I watched that Thanksgiving evening because the finale aired on

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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving night, and I rewound that moment twice because to

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Speaker 2: your point, I was like, wait what, because it was

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Speaker 2: it was I'm not going to say it was random,

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Speaker 2: but it kind of like slid in there, right, like

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Speaker 2: CEC's compliment to Chris. So when CC said like, no, Chris,

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Speaker 2: you're responsible for all of this and I love you some,

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Speaker 2: Chris fucking Jenner, she was so humble in her reaction

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Speaker 2: to it, like, oh, CC, darling, like oh, thank you,

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Speaker 2: which is why I always tell people that's the career

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Speaker 2: Kathy Hilton wants. Kathy Hilton wants the career of Chris Jenner,

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Speaker 2: a suburban mom in California who made her family become

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Speaker 2: so successful individually that as a collective they are a

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Speaker 2: billion dollar empire. And listen, that is something to be

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Speaker 2: proud of and that's something to celebrate.

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Speaker 1: So I agree with you, that was a great moment.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite moments from season two that I

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Speaker 2: watch constantly is when Kim and Chloe went to Miami,

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Speaker 2: because I like moments that doesn't seem produced. And one

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Speaker 2: thing about the Kardashians, who again I love them, a

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Speaker 2: lot of their scenes can come off produced. I from

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Speaker 2: one hate the pranks because I feel like this isn't

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Speaker 2: the fucking Brady Bunch, Like, stop with the sitcom pranks.

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Speaker 1: I'm over it.

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Speaker 2: So going back to the Miami episode, Chloe has anxiety.

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Speaker 2: As we know, she was like, Oh, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 2: to Miami to celebrate Kim's business venture. They're in the

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Speaker 2: hotel room and Chloe is getting drunk with Malika, her

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Speaker 2: best friend, and her other friends and Kimberly, Noel Kardashian

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Speaker 2: is sitting next to her publicist on the couch with

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Speaker 2: the laptop on her lap, and while a party was

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Speaker 2: happening around her, Kim was selecting pictures that the Papa

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Speaker 2: Rossi took so that she can improve them for release.

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Speaker 2: And the best moment to meet MJ was when they

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Speaker 2: cut to Kim's interview and Kim is looking off camera.

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Speaker 2: So you actually, when you do a confessional, you're looking

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Speaker 2: directly to the camera because you're talking to the audience.

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Speaker 2: Kim is looking to her right and she's clearly speaking

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Speaker 2: to a producer, not understanding that bitch, they're going to

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Speaker 2: air this, and she says to the producer, no one

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Speaker 2: knows how. No, I'm sorry, Kim said, I don't trust

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Speaker 2: anyone to tell me I look good.

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Speaker 1: I know what I look good.

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Speaker 2: Malika can look bad in a photo and I can

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Speaker 2: look good, but I won't release that photo because Malika

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Speaker 2: looks bad and you guys can party because, bitch, you'll

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Speaker 2: thank me later.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, that's the side.

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Speaker 2: Of Kim that I love and I want to see

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Speaker 2: more of. Because it was off script, it was real,

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Speaker 2: and although it was a funny moment, it's those little

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Speaker 2: slice of life moments that I want to see more

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Speaker 2: from this cast.

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Speaker 4: And what you just described is exactly why I think

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Speaker 4: it's a reality show about a reality show, and the

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Speaker 4: more it leans into giving us insight into that process

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Speaker 4: in an authentic way. It's an authentic depiction of something

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00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: that's super hyper constructed, so it's an interesting collide of

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Speaker 4: its attention. And what I also think is interesting is

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Speaker 4: when we see them break the fourth wall that feels

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Speaker 4: very penetrating and effective, which is what happens when we

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Speaker 4: see her talking to a producer, and that's another example

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Speaker 4: of I think my big takeaway from season two was

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Speaker 4: that a lot of it was basically giving us bts

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Speaker 4: into how more casual, fast moving media images came to be.

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Speaker 4: Like the whole story of the Maryland dress, it was

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Speaker 4: Kim on a red carpet. We got a hole behind

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Speaker 4: the scenes, behind the scenes of images that we saw

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Speaker 4: of Kim on a red carpet. That moment was basically

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Speaker 4: behind the scenes of a paparazzi picture we saw of Kim.

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Speaker 4: There's there was a moment when Cravis, when Courtney Travis

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Speaker 4: go to Italy and we see them approaching this big

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Speaker 4: beautiful cathedral in Milan, and we think we're going to

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Speaker 4: at least see them to our cathedral and have a

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Speaker 4: historic experience in Italy. But all we saw of that

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Speaker 4: experience was Courtney jumping into Travis's arms and taking a

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Speaker 4: picture for Instagram. And I remember seeing that picture on Instagram.

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Speaker 4: So if you think about it, if you really break

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Speaker 4: it down, so many of these episodes are just the

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Speaker 4: bts of how an Instagram post was made.

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Speaker 3: And that's really interesting to think about.

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Speaker 4: That they were able to expand and create meat and

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Speaker 4: material for something that really you just passed by on

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Speaker 4: the feed.

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Speaker 1: So my question for you is this, MJ.

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Speaker 2: How long do you think the family can last?

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Speaker 1: If this is all they're showing us?

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Speaker 2: Because you've seen it, I've seen it, Honey, Kim has

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Speaker 2: seen it. People are saying the show is boring, and

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Speaker 2: it's one of those things to where and listen. That's

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Speaker 2: a very reality TV executive Always say this to my cast.

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Speaker 1: You can't start out your.

437
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 2: First couple of seasons being super authentic, super transparent, and

438
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you peel back and you say,

439
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to show that side of me anymore.

440
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: You can't have.

441
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: That sort of push and pull a relationship with the audience.

442
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: The audience wants more of you. If anything, you can

443
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: start off your first season or two, if you're able

444
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: to make it.

445
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: Being a little.

446
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: Bit you know, guarded, and then show more in your

447
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: later seasons, But you cannot do the reverse or you're

448
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 2: gonna lose your audience. We've seen that with some housewives.

449
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: People have made comments about that to Nini Leaks that

450
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: in the beginning of the Real Houseporks of Atlanta, Mieni

451
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 2: gave us issues with her sons, and you know, it

452
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 2: was so open about what was happening her marriage, and

453
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 2: then a lot of people felt that towards Nini's latter seasons,

454
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 2: we weren't able to get the real stuff from her.

455
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 2: A lot of people felt like they were missing out

456
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: on it. So when it comes to the Kardashians, are

457
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: they going to make it in the five years if

458
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: they keep going down this same path.

459
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 4: I think they're going to need things to kind of exploit,

460
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 4: like another Chloe cheating scandal, which I think is done.

461
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 4: But I think they're going to have to make do

462
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 4: with whatever may organically come up for them and figure

463
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 4: out what to hone in on and make the most of,

464
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 4: so different sisters will probably take the fall and like

465
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: kind of sacrificing one personal thing maybe at the altar

466
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: of the show for a season. They were made sure,

467
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 4: I remember this, this is interesting to me too.

468
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 3: In the finale episode to.

469
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: Send us the message quite explicitly that they don't write

470
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 4: this like at the finale, like the final like five minutes,

471
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 4: Chloe says, you can't write this shit, and Chris says

472
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 4: something like, I wish I could control it all, but

473
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 4: I can't.

474
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: They wanted us to know.

475
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 4: That this isn't a completely fictional depiction of their lives,

476
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: but I wonder if it's going to be enough for

477
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 4: people to accept. I would also mention just through a

478
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 4: media theory lens. So also, our brains are quite literally

479
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 4: adopting more to short form content. We're getting more dopamine

480
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 4: from the short stuff. TikTok has been very influential, so

481
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: I think, and then TikTok dramas, cycles of Instagram influencer

482
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 4: dramas are actually feeling more compelling I think to people

483
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 4: because they feel more real and more immediate, because we

484
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: can identify with influencers and people on the Internet a

485
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 4: little bit better.

486
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 3: So they have a lot to face off with.

487
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 4: I think with the influx of TikTok and obviously Instagram's

488
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 4: old power. My guess is, like I said, this is

489
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 4: going to be a transitional chunk of time for them, and.

490
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: I think that's great.

491
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: So as we as we come to a close going

492
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: back to Kim's tweet that she tweeted on Thanksgiving about

493
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: what we would like to see season three?

494
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: What would you like to see season three?

495
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: MJ Well, one thing I also want to say about

496
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 4: that tweet really fast is the effect of it. The

497
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: impact of it was also that it was super memed

498
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 4: and I don't think the Kardashians have had a good

499
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 4: meme in a long time that felt really real. Audiences

500
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 4: were organically reacting to them and disseminating their messaging online

501
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 4: like memes made Kim Kardashian.

502
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 3: Making fun of Kim Kardashian.

503
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: On the feeds was a big part of producing her

504
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: visibility and engaging us with her, and they went with that,

505
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 4: and they tried really hard to be memed I think

506
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: in the past few years, and it hasn't quite stuck.

507
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: So that gave them a good meme run on the

508
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 4: feeds again. As far as what I would like to see,

509
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I think a lot of people

510
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 4: would love to see more exposure around this Palenciauga scandal.

511
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 4: I think people would like to see conversation about the

512
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 4: fallout of Astro World still, like the real truth of

513
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 4: Kylie's probably complicated relationship with Travis Scott Kim and Kanye's divorce.

514
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 4: I mean, people will want to see those things. What

515
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 4: I think we're going to get and what would probably

516
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 4: serve my work is a further use of reality TV

517
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 4: conventions like breaking the fourth wall, like talking about how

518
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: it's a reality show, like showing us how a reality

519
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: show itself is made, perhaps more visibility of the producers.

520
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 4: That's what I think we're probably going to see more of.

521
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 4: And I'm here for it because I think my teeth

522
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 4: into that with different different French philosophy and stuff like that.

523
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and listen, I think that's very smart, and

524
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: listen for me as somebody who loves the show, loves

525
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: a family, and I listen. I want to give the

526
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: Kardashians their props. I know a lot of people hate

527
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: on them. I know a lot of people have this

528
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: sort of weird relationship love or hate them With the Kardashians,

529
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: I happen to be on the side of loving them.

530
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: I had Malika Hawk on the show, who's a good

531
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: friend of mine. She's great. I met Chloe, who's fantastic.

532
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: I got a chance to meet Kim, who's a sweetheart.

533
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: She's so sweet. I do think at some point, and

534
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: one of my good friends, Kay Casey, who also has

535
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: a podcast, she always says this, you have to leave

536
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: on top.

537
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: She talks about Derek Jeter, she talks.

538
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: About other people who said, you know what, I need

539
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: to leave on top. And as a family, who did

540
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: be unthinkable, which is created a billion dollar brand in

541
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: Pore if you will, based off of being themselves. I

542
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: think Kim Kardashian deserves a star on the Hollywood Walk

543
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: of Fame. I do think if you want to compare

544
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: her to Mellie Monroe, I get it. You have to

545
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: give Chris Jenna her props in terms of being probably

546
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: the best mamager in the entire universe.

547
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: You have to give them that.

548
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: But at the same time, as a family, you guys

549
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: have so much money that my concern is I don't

550
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: want the greed of the dollar bill to seminate the brand,

551
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: and that's going to be my concern. And as I

552
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: reflect on the Kardashian seasons one and two, it really

553
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: was an okay season on both ends, and my concern

554
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: is if they're carrying on like that, is going to

555
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: be the audience decision to lead them alone versus the

556
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: other way around.

557
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and also with everything you were just saying, it

558
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 4: reminded me I think people would really like to see

559
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 4: the kids, which is like a you know, ethical question

560
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 4: of how much the kids should be shown. And there

561
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 4: was one more thing you said there that was really

562
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 4: interesting to me.

563
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: Oh the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

564
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, Yes, that's a prediction. That's a prediction.

565
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 4: I think that we will have an episode where Kim

566
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: gets the star. I think that they may have actually

567
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: been consciously timing when they really make that application or

568
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 4: what over the processes to get the star. But we're

569
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 4: going to see an episode about the process of finding

570
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: out I'm getting a star, How does the star work?

571
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: How does it get made to put in the hands?

572
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: And that's that's coming. It's on its way.

573
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: And look that I want to see and I want

574
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 2: to be clear, I liked it behind the scenes stuff,

575
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: but again, we all fell in love because we saw

576
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: the moment you were married for seventy two days Kim

577
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: and got a divorce from this guy. We saw you

578
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: check Reggie Bush on cheating on you. We saw all

579
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: these things, and I think at the end of the day,

580
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: we wanted to see more with you and Pete Davison,

581
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: and we want to see how a woman who turned

582
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: forty looking as good as you do is dating again

583
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: and seeing those moments. So listen the Kardashians if you're listening, because.

584
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: I know you are.

585
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: We love you and we just want to see more

586
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: more more. So MJ, thank you so much for coming

587
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Look, it's it's not every day you

588
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: find somebody who is a connoisseur of the Kardashian Because

589
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: I thought I was the only one.

590
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: So it's nice to know I'm not alone in my

591
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: love for them.

592
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: But tell my listeners where they can find you, follow

593
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: you and support you.

594
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 4: Kardashian underscore colloquium, but colloquium spelled with a k on

595
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok. And my name is MJ Corey, and

596
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 4: so you can also find my columns for Vogue where

597
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 4: I recap the show on vogue dot com search MJ.

598
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 3: Corey and I have a.

599
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 4: Big feature with The New Yorker where I talk about

600
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 4: how Kim is a kin to an American superhero archetype.

601
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: So thank you so much for having me.

602
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it, and I loved hearing you remind

603
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 4: us all of the richer moments in the show's history

604
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 4: because that really reminded me of It made me really

605
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 4: think a lot about the power of the show once.

606
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: Had yes and we want that power back.

607
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: Girl.

608
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, MJ.

609
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: And I want to invite you back after we see

610
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: the season premiere of three so that you and I

611
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: can dissect that.

612
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: I would be honored. Thank you, yay, thank you.

613
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King. New

614
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: episodes drop every Wednesday and Friday, Share, comment, follow and

615
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: subscribe to Reality with the King Wherever you get your podcast,

616
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: Visit Reality Withtheking dot com and be sure to follow

617
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram and Twitter.

618
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: Tweak me your thoughts and.

619
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: Hot takes about this episode using the hashtag.

620
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: Reality with the King.

621
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: Reality with the King is a production of Mark Sauce

622
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: by Stitcher. It is executive produced by me Carlos King

623
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: and Jasminehilly Brown. We are also produced by Lashik, Lotus

624
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625
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