1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy, I am still 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: working through my list. I think we both are forever. 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm never gonna get through it, but I'm 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: trying to refer back to it more and more as 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: I plan episodes. The woman that we're talking about today 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: has been on my list for a very long time. 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I think she might have even been a listener request, 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: but that long time means I have lost said requests. 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: So if you are the person who suggested her to me, 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: I have a vague memory that it was after our 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Joan Curran episode that someone recommended her, but I don't remember. 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: But if you're the person that recommended her, apologies, also 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: thank you. This is also a nice bit of Australian history. 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: Before we get into it, I do want to mention, 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: just as a heads up, there is a brief discussion 18 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: of miscarriage and also some discussion of Alzheimer's and dementia 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: towards the end, So if those are troubling for you, 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: you know, maybe not this one. But I am so 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: excited to talk about Ruby Payne Scott because she is 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: often called a pioneer in radio astronomy, which she was, 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: but she was also a pioneer in advocating for women's rights, 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: and she was clearly brilliant, but her work was cut 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: short simply by her desire to have a spouse and 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: a family. Ruby Violet Pain Scott was born on May 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: twenty eighth, nineteen twelve, in South Grafton, New South Wales, Australia. 28 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: That's a little more than six hundred kilometers or three 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five miles north of Sydney, along the 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: country's east coast. Her parents were Cyril Herman and Amy 31 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: Sarah Neil Payne Scott. Cyril was an accountant and had 32 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: been born in London. Amy was born in Sydney. Sometime 33 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen twenties, the family moved to Sydney 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: and Ruby attended the Cleveland Street School and she went 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: to Fort Street High School and when she graduated at sixteen, 36 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: she enrolled at the University of Sydney. She earned her 37 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: Bachelor of Science degree in nineteen thirty three with honors 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: in physics and math, and Ruby next pursued a master's 39 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: degree with several scholarships, those who the Dias Thomas Scholarship 40 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: for Physics, the Walter Burfett Scholarship for Physics, and the 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: Norbert Quirk Prize for Mathematics. And while working on her 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: master's degree, Ruby moved into the role of assistant physicist 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: in cancer research. This was part of the University of 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Sydney's Cancer Research Committee, and while cancer research might sound 45 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: like a departure from her physics and math background, it 46 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: really wasn't. She was focused on newly developed radiation treatments 47 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: for cancer. In nineteen thirty six, she finished her master's 48 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 1: deg with a thesis on wavelength distribution of the scattered 49 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: radiation in a medium traversed by a beam of X 50 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: or gamma rays. For the next two years she stayed 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 1: at the Cancer Research Institute as a physicist. This part 52 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: of her life doesn't get talked about all that much, 53 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: But there's an interesting news article I found that appeared 54 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: in various forms in the US in the spring of 55 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: that year that pain Scott received her master's degree, and 56 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: it talked about some of her research. One version of 57 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: it appears in the four Worth Star Telegram titled Magnetism 58 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: and Life, and it reads in its entirety quote, although 59 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: electricity and magnetism are inextricably mingled, if not one force, 60 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: and electricity undeniably is essential to life, vital processes are 61 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: affected little, if at all, by magnetism. According to doctors 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: Ruby pain Scott and William H. Love of the Cancer 63 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: Research Laboratory at the University of Sydney, Australia, they cultivated 64 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: it test tubes the living cells from chick embryos. Some 65 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: of these they grew in a magnetic field five thousand 66 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: times as powerful as that of the Earth. Others they 67 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: grew under normal conditions. They reasoned, if the weak field 68 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: of the Earth produces any effect on living things, the 69 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: powerful field should increase the effect to an observable extent. 70 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: They found that the chromosomes in the magnetically tested cells 71 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: showed no changes from normal. She might have stayed in 72 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: cancer research longer, but her project ended. There wasn't another 73 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: opening at the institute. Though she really had excelled academically, 74 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: she just wasn't met with a lot of options when 75 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: she finished her graduate studies and her research work, so 76 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: she got a teaching certificate and took a job at 77 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: the Woodlands Church of England Grammar School. Shouldn't stay in 78 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: teaching though. Ruby took a job at Amalgamated Wireless Australia 79 00:04:55,400 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: as a librarian, editing the company's internal journal, but was 80 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: soon working on research projects in the standards lab. Ruby 81 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: was trying to solve problems with existing receiver designs. Amalgamated 82 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: Wireless Australia was not much older than Ruby was. It 83 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: was founded as Australasian Wireless Limited three years before she 84 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen oh nine, as a telegraph company. 85 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: In the nineteen teens, the company had been given exclusive 86 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: rights to operate Australia's coastal network of maritime radio stations. 87 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: During World War One, it had been instrumental in the 88 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: passage of information about the war back and forth between 89 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: Britain and Australia. After the war, the Australian government became 90 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: the company's majority shareholder, and by the time Ruby started 91 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: working for AWA, the company had established global communications networks 92 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: and had transmitted the first newsreel picture from Sydney to London. 93 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: So for someone interested in radio technology, it was probably 94 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: a great place to be in nineteen forty one. Because 95 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: many of Australia's physicists were engaged with wartime activities, Ruby 96 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: was able to get a job with the CSIR, the 97 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. She was part of 98 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: a group of AWA engineers who were hired by the 99 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: CSIR to work in their division of Radiophysics. She wasn't 100 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 1: the only woman on the scientific staff. Another woman named 101 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: Joan Freeman was also brought on board at the same time. Yeah, 102 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: there are also a couple of other women that came 103 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: into the group at various times, but those two are 104 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: the ones that get mentioned the most. The CSIR was 105 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: founded in nineteen sixteen to create a national laboratory for 106 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: Australia that would use science to bolster the country's mining, 107 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: agriculture and manufacturing efforts. Under the name Advisory Council of 108 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: Science and Industry. The organization started its first research project 109 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: by studying pests that had invaded the Prickly Payer and 110 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: it changed to the CSIR in nineteen twenty six and 111 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: then at the onset of World War Two, the umbrella 112 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: of projects that conducted widen to include research that would 113 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: help the Australian defense forces, and that is how Ruby 114 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: Payne Scott was brought in. Ruby had been brought on 115 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: as a probationary employee, and a few months into her 116 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: time at the CSIR, her supervisor, Edward George Bowen, who 117 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: went by the nickname Taffy, wrote an assessment of her. 118 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: According to CSIRO's account, that memo read quote, well, she's 119 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: a bit loud, and we don't think she's quite what 120 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: we want, and she may be a bit unstable, but 121 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: will let her continue and see how she works out. 122 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: That kind of cracks me up and also makes me angry. 123 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: That I think is the thing that made me say 124 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: out loud something as I was reading this over for 125 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: the first time. So this move to CSIR was intellectually 126 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: really a great fit for Payne Scott. She was finally 127 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: doing work that she can really dig into and use 128 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: her education and her training, and she definitely advanced science 129 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: in her time there. Because the Division of Radiophysics was 130 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: working on radar as a new defensive weapon. Ruby's area 131 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: of research looked at small signal visibility on radar displays, 132 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: and she also worked on receiver noise factors and how 133 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: they could accurately be measured. She also was the go 134 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: to expert on the planned position indicator system that other 135 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: scientists had developed in the UK, and it was through 136 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: the work of the team that Ruby was on that 137 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: radar devices were developed that were used by Australian and 138 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: US forces in the South Pacific. Through the noise measurement research, 139 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: pain Scott started working with another physicist, Joseph lad Palsey. 140 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: Posey had, like Ruby, been recruited into the CSIR to 141 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: work on radar technology and get its manufacture up and running. 142 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: Posey had seen a report that indicated that there were 143 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: bursts of staff that were altering radar's effectiveness. Very briefly, 144 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: he suspected that they were coming from somewhere other than 145 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: the Earth. Once World War Two ended, Ruby stayed with 146 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: the CSIR, working with Posey and pivoting to work in 147 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: the new field of radio astronomy. Their team was one 148 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: of only two in the world at the time examining 149 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: what they called cosmic static. Was that stuff that Posey 150 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: had seen. The report about this team pinpointed the origin 151 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: point of various instances of cosmic static, including the Sun 152 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: and other heavenly bodies. Pain Scott discovered or was part 153 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: of a team that discovered three categories of solar bursts 154 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: which came from the corona of the Sun in the 155 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: course of just a few years. These were categorized at 156 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: the time as type one, Type two, and type three bursts, 157 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: and those classifications were based on the h alpha spectrum, 158 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: referring to a visible spectral line of red in the 159 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: hydrogen attic. This is different from modern classification, which bases 160 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: the divisions on peak flux of electromagnetic radiation. Pain Scott 161 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: and Posey published a paper in Nature in early nineteen 162 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: forty six explaining that solar bursts were not visible like 163 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: solar flares, and that they had figured out how to 164 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: detect and monitor them using radio waves. We'll talk about 165 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: some of the challenges that Ruby pain Scott experienced from 166 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: the beginning of her career at CSIR right after we 167 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: pause for a sponsor break. Although she was pretty much 168 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: by everyone's account, doing really great work, Ruby's time at 169 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: the CSIR wasn't exactly easy. She often got in trouble 170 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: for silly things like wearing shorts instead of a skirt, 171 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: and when she was called into a meeting about this 172 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: clothing choice, she stated, quote, well, this is absurd we're 173 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: climbing up on ladders, up on aerials every day. I'm 174 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: not going up on a ladder with a skirt on. 175 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: The shorts are much better at tire for us, and 176 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: she was not afraid to speak her mind on just 177 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: about any topic that came up. She wanted women to 178 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: be treated equally at work and pointed out when they weren't. 179 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: She talked politics with her colleagues and argued with them 180 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: about it. Despite problems with the organization's leadership, Ruby was 181 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: promoted in nineteen forty four into the position of research Officer. 182 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: That was also the year that she and Posey made 183 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: their first radio astronomy observations from the RPL building using 184 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: radar equipment at ten centimeters. That means they were detecting 185 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: wavelengths of ten centimeters, which today would be known as 186 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: the S band. The idea of quantifying the light in 187 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: the sky mathematically was really new, and Ruby, Payne Scott, 188 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: and the team at the Radio Physics Lab were leaders 189 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: in the field. Ruby was a participating author on nine 190 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: Publishers works in the years from nineteen forty five to 191 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two, and the department overall published sixty two 192 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: papers in the rapidly expanding field of radio astronomy. Something 193 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: else happened in nineteen forty four that would have ended 194 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: Ruby's career had she not kept it a secret. And 195 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: if you're imagining that, maybe she committed a crime or 196 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: did something really horrifying. No, she got married on September 197 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: eighth of that year. Ruby's new husband, William Holman Hall, 198 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: who was a telephone technician, supported her work, but it 199 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: was expected that women would resign when they got married, 200 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: and that wasn't just a social convention. As a public servant, 201 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,359 Speaker 1: she was, according to the rules of that field, supposed 202 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: to resign when she got married. So Ruby, who had 203 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: no interest in ending her career, kept her marriage secret 204 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: to avoid having to leave her. Colleagues, who knew about 205 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: it helped her do so. Initially, Ruby had just let 206 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: people think that she and Bill were living together, which was, 207 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: of course quite bold in the nineteen forties. Many biographical 208 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: accounts I read of her described as using the old 209 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: school phrase living in sin. Most women would not want 210 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: anyone to think that they were just living with a man, 211 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: because of the social stigma that it would have invited. 212 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: But Ruby kind of didn't care or She saw that 213 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: as preferable to disclosing her married status and losing her job. 214 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: But the truth did come out among her colleagues after 215 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: a couple of years. Even once the people in her 216 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: department knew about the couple, though they just chose not 217 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: to say anything to the bureaucratic heads of the organization. 218 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: According to her colleague Joan Freeman, quote, all her radiophysics friends, 219 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: having developed a strong affection for Ruby as well as 220 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,239 Speaker 1: respect for her scientific abilities, greeted the story with hilarity 221 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: and sympathized with her attitude. Although they had very different personalities, 222 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: Ruby and Bill seem like they were a great match. 223 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: Bill was just a little older than Ruby. Born on 224 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: August twenty second, nineteen eleven in Inveral, New South Wales, 225 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: to a Scottish mother and an English father. Bill and 226 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: Ruby often went bushwhacking together. They actually met through the 227 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: Sydney Bushwalkers Club several years before they married. They shared 228 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: that hobby together for years. He treated her as an equal, 229 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: and Ruby had helped him with the mathematics he had 230 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: to learn to pass his exam to get his telephone 231 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: mechanic license. Bill wanted her to keep doing the work 232 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: that she found so fulfilling. In nineteen forty six, John G. Bolton, 233 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: who had served in the British Navy, moved from his 234 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: military career to become the new head of the Radiophysics 235 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: Lab at CSIR. He and Ruby pain Scott did not 236 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: hit it off, and then when Joseph Posey, who she 237 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: had a great working relationship with, went overseas for a 238 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: year for research, both Ruby and Bolton tried to work 239 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: at the same site at Dover Heights. That's a coastal 240 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: area just east of Sydney. It was where the inferometer 241 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: testing that she had been doing had started, so it 242 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: would make sense that pain Scott would continue taking readings there, 243 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: but she and Bolton fought constantly, and because he ranked 244 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: higher than she did, Ruby ended up having to move 245 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,359 Speaker 1: to another site. Sometimes this is described as an exile. 246 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: While at that other site, which was Hornsby's Station, one 247 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: of the technologies that Ruby helped to develop in her 248 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: time at the Radiophysics Lab was an interferometer that could 249 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: sweep the sky rapidly more than two dozen times a second. 250 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: Interferometers work by combining multiple sources of light to make 251 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: an interference pattern for analysis. The one pain Scott worked 252 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: on could rapidly identify radio wave formations. They could be 253 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: examined more closely, and it made it possible to use 254 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: the collected images of the Sun to make a movie 255 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: that showed solar bursts happening. This is a hugely significant thing, 256 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: and it enabled scientists to more deeply understand space emissions. 257 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: She's credited by biographer W. M. Goss with taking quote 258 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: the first ever interferometric measurements in radio astronomy. Was part 259 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: of the work on her sweptlope interferometer. She also developed 260 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: the mathematical concept that would later lead to the aperture 261 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: synthesis system that's been used ever since. In simple terms, 262 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: aperture synthesis is the use of multiple antennas to simultaneously 263 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: monitor an astronomical source. The signals are then mixed or 264 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: combined to create a greater sized sample. Yeah, if you 265 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: are familiar with the work of things like the very 266 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: large array, that's how they work. In nineteen forty nine, 267 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: Ruby was involved in a controversy at work. During the war, 268 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: she and Joan Freeman and the other women on staff 269 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: were paid the same wages as their male colleagues. But 270 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty nine the CSIR instituted a new policy 271 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: that women were to receive pay scaled to two thirds 272 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: of what the men were making. I also saw one 273 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: account that said it was seventy five percent, so that 274 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: would have been three quarters either way significantly less. This 275 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: was basically seen as the organization as a correction, because 276 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: that had been the scaled salary before the war. This 277 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: was also part of a subtle shift that happened in 278 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: the name of the organization to CSIRO Commonwealth Scientific and 279 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: Industrial Research Organization. Ruby was very vocal about how absolutely 280 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: wrong this change in pay was, and so were many 281 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: of her colleagues. Painne Scott led a letter writing campaign 282 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: to CSIRO leadership and also to the press, so anyone 283 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: who read a paper in Australia knew that the women 284 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: who had worked on radar technology for the war effort 285 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: were now getting a pay cut. To try to appease 286 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: existing staff, the company declared that it would give equal 287 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: pay to anyone who had been hired six months or 288 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: more before June of nineteen forty nine if they were 289 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: working in the same division and doing the same work, 290 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: but that any new hires would be paid what was 291 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: referred to by the organization as the quote female rate. 292 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: So this would have secured Ruby's old salary, but she 293 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: was not okay with newly hired women getting paid a 294 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: cut rate, and especially not okay with the idea that 295 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: any woman transferring from one department or project to another 296 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: could initiate a pay cut, she said, so she continued 297 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: her campaign and wrote an open letter to the company's 298 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: Officers Association bulletin that women should quote stick like glue 299 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: to their current work until the rules of the situation 300 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: were clearly defined and equitable. She had a meeting with 301 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: the chairman of the company to discuss the sixty women 302 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: who were currently on staff as research and technical oars 303 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: and was promised that he would investigate the situation. This 304 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: campaign didn't really fix anything in any immediate sense. Instead, 305 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: Ruby ended up with a dossier on file at the 306 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: Australian Security Intelligence Organization or ASIO, although that was not 307 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: discovered until years later. Yeah, she had basically become a 308 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: known rebel rouser. And we're going to talk about what 309 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: happened when Ruby was outed as a married woman. Oh 310 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: the scandal. After we hear from our sponsors that keep 311 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class going. In nineteen fifty, 312 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: CSIRO management got wind of Ruby and Bill's marriage. She 313 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: had a meeting with the chairman of CSIRO, Ian Clooney's Ross, 314 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: in February of nineteen fifty, and that was the first 315 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: of several such meetings. She told him that she had 316 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: poured over are the regulations regarding the civil service and 317 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: did not see any specific directive to demote or let 318 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: go married women. She also refused to disclose the date 319 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,959 Speaker 1: of her marriage to Clooney's Ross. Ruby fought hard, and 320 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: the whole conflict played out in a series of letters 321 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: that she exchanged with the chairman. She stated, in one quote, 322 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: all the married women research officers I have met feel 323 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: that their classification as temporary puts them at a considerable 324 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: psychological disadvantage in their work. Personally, I feel no legal 325 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: or moral obligation to have taken any other action than 326 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: I have in making my marriage known. She also told 327 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: him quote the present procedure is ridiculous and can lead 328 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: to ridiculous results. Basically, she was like, we're working on 329 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: important stuff and you're going to mess it up because 330 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: we got married. But she ultimately did have to give 331 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: up her salaried position. She was allowed to stay as 332 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: a temp contract employee. Sometimes this tempt status is characterized 333 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: as having been the work of her boss, Posey, who 334 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: made the case that he needed to rehire her back 335 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: in some capacity because her work was so important. Other 336 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: accounts make it sound like it was an organization initiated demotion. 337 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: Either way, the whole thing understandably made pain Scott incredibly angry. 338 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: At this point, she had contributed more to her field 339 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: than many of her male peers. She pointed out the 340 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: sexism of the rule that robbed her of a title 341 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: that she had earned simply because she was married. It 342 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: also meant she was no longer eligible for a pension, 343 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: and that the retirement contributions the organization had made were 344 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: pulled from her accounts, and the interest that had been 345 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: earned on her own contributions to the retirement fund that 346 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: was part of her benefits package that was also stripped away. 347 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: Because she had been married when she was making those jaments, 348 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: you can see why she was angry. She had been integral, 349 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: truly integral to making Australia the global leader in the 350 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: emerging field of radio astronomy. There was so much talk 351 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: at the time of how exciting it was that Australia 352 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: was a leader in a new scientific field. According to 353 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: biographer Wm Goss, even though Joseph Posey was her boss, 354 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: he often would not make decisions about their projects unless 355 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: he had gotten Ruby's input first. That is how key 356 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: she was to the department, and because of her marriage, 357 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: that meant very little in the eyes of the organization's bureaucracy. 358 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: But although Posey still wanted Ruby on his team. In 359 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one, another life change happened, and this one 360 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: finally did end her time working at CSIRO. She became 361 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: pregnant once again. Different biographies treat this differently. Some say 362 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: she was forced to leave. Others make it sound as 363 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: though her resignation was maybe her choice, But since the 364 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: CSIRO didn't have any kind of maternity leave policy, there 365 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: really wasn't much choice, and according to the organization's account, 366 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: she gave two days notice and left. Either way, this 367 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 1: is a brilliant career in science that ended way too early. 368 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: The CSIRO biography of Ruby notes that she had a 369 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: miscarriage several years before nineteen fifty one. She might have 370 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: just wanted to prioritize her pregnancy over her career, take 371 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: care of her physical well being and the babies. I 372 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: feel like regardless of what the reasoning was like, CSIRO 373 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: was not supportive of pregnancy and new motherhood in any way. 374 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: Ruby and Bill welcomed their son Peter on November twentieth, 375 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one. They also had a daughter, Fiona. In 376 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, Ruby became a full time mom for 377 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: more than a decade. In operation for their family, Ruby 378 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: and Bill had moved to Oatly. That's a suburb about 379 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: eighteen kilometers or eleven miles southwest of Sydney. They had 380 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: designed and built their own house there, and they camped 381 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: on the property during the process. She did receive a 382 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: note from the CEO of CSIRO, who told her that 383 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: while there was not maternity leave, he would be happy 384 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: to welcome her back quote in due course, She replied 385 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: that she was really sad to leave behind her projects 386 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: and her friends at work, but she didn't expect to 387 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: return to any kind of work for years. When she 388 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: left the organization, Paine Scott had been promoted to the 389 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: highest research category an employee could receive short of a 390 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: formal leadership position. Ruby had also started going by Ruby 391 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: Hall once the marriage was out in the open and 392 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: she had left her career. Sometimes Ruby's exit from the 393 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: CSIRO is told as though it was only being a 394 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: married woman or being a mother that was the reason 395 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: she had to leave. That was absolutely the huge primary 396 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: part of it, but there is also a little more 397 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: nuance because her opinions were constantly at odds with the 398 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: policies and stances of the organization, even if her collaborators 399 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: in her department valued her and really liked her. For one, 400 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: Ruby really felt strongly that the work that had been 401 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: done at the CSIAR during the war should have been 402 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: declassified after the war, and she did not think the 403 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: organization should have any secret research projects when the country 404 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: was not at war, and she was as outspoken about 405 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: that as the other issues she had with the organization. 406 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: She went so far as to write a letter to 407 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: the Sydney Morning Herald on July twenty ninth of nineteen 408 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: forty eight that stated that she and many of her 409 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: colleagues who had all signed this letter, thought that if 410 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: the research of the CSIR remained classified on an ongoing basis, 411 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: creativity was going to be impeded. Additionally, her clashes with 412 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: leadership and her un wavering willingness to defend her position 413 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: to her organizational superiors had probably taken a toll over 414 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: the years. Her proclivity to openly challenge the status quo 415 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: when she thought it was wrong, combined with her status 416 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: as a member of the Communist Party at least through 417 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen fifties while also working on cutting edge 418 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: scientific concepts, also drew a lot of attention to her. 419 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: An addition, garnered her the nickname Red Ruby among her colleagues. 420 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: To the Australian Intelligence Security Organization, she also posed a 421 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: risk to national security. Taking all that together, it's maybe 422 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: more accurate to say that Ruby's career ended because she 423 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 1: was a married woman who was also outspoken in ways 424 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: that did not mesh with her organization's higher ups. Yes, 425 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: if you're thinking you didn't say much about that Communist 426 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: Party thing, we will talk about that a little bit 427 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: more in the behind the scenes. But the honest answer 428 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: is there's not a lot to know, and it wasn't 429 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: even known that that was the case until well after 430 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: her death, when Ruby and Bill's son was twelve and 431 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: their daughter was ten. Payne. Scott went back to work, 432 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: returning to her first job of teaching. She taught at 433 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: the Danebank Anglican School for Girls. Starting in nineteen sixty three. 434 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: She went by Missus Hall at the tiny school, where 435 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: she taught math and science. She did not really talk 436 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: about her time working as a physicist, and she didn't 437 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: seem to develop the kinds of friendships that she had 438 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: had with her colleagues at CSIRO. She organized the labs, 439 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: and she made sure the science program met all the 440 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: requirements of state and federal standards, and she oversaw senior 441 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: mathematics programs. She was apparently not especially well liked by 442 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: most of her students, although there were exceptions, and she 443 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: was dismayed that a lot of her pupils were kind 444 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: of lacking scholastically and academically. She also was often in 445 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: conflict with her colleagues on the faculty. Ruby retired from 446 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: teaching in nineteen seventy four, when she was sixty two. 447 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six, Ruby and Bill took a trip together, 448 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: traveling to Japan, then Vladivostok to take the Trans Siberian Express. 449 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: They stopped in Moscow and Paris before arriving in London, 450 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: where their son Peter was working on his mathematics dissertation, 451 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: and Peter saw a lot of change in his mother. 452 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: In the years following her retirement, pain Scott had developed Alzheimer's. 453 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: She was likely having issues even before leaving her teaching career, 454 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: and that might have contributed to her difficulty connecting with 455 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: other teachers and students there. When she got to London, 456 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: Ruby seemed both physically depleted and confused. Bill took her 457 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: to the doctor, but the visit didn't result in a 458 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: lot of benefit to Ruby. At the end of nineteen 459 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: seventy six, they were back in Australia. Bill really doted 460 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: on Ruby as she declined until she had to be 461 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: moved to a nursing home in nineteen eighty. Bill would 462 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: cook her favorite foods and bring them to her there. 463 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: Ruby died of precina dementia on May twenty fifth, nineteen 464 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: eighty one, in Sydney. I hunted for an obituary for Ruby, 465 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: but I was only able to turn up a very 466 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: brief notice of her death in the Sydney Morning Herald, 467 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: which ran on May thirtieth, nineteen eighty one, and it 468 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: reads in its Entigrity Hall Nay Payne Scott Ruby Violet 469 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: May twenty fifth, nineteen eighty one, Late of Warrinora Parade, 470 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: Oatly dearly loved wife of Bill, loving mother of Peter, 471 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: Fiona and Jeanie. Privately cremated. This is such a short 472 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: footnote to a life of such great scientific achievement. Presumably 473 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: that mention of Genie is a reference to Ruby's miscarriage. 474 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: I did not find any other reference to it anywhere else. 475 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: It's interesting that the family would have chosen to include it, 476 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: and it offers an insight into how much Ruby valued 477 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: her family. In two thousand and eight, the Payne Scott 478 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: Award was established by CSIRO quote for researchers returning from 479 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: family related career breaks. This award grants new parents financial 480 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: support after an extended leave, which they can use for 481 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: training and to quote, re establish themselves and reconnect with 482 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: the research underway in their fields and related fields of research. 483 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: Do you know if this same thing is available to 484 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: people who take an extended break to care for an 485 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: elder family member. I don't know the way it's worded. 486 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: Everything I read it sounds like it is specifically for 487 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: parental new parents, which makes sense given the context. I 488 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: was just curious. Yeah, yeah, so that is Ruby Payne Scott. 489 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: I know I got all choked up and weep you 490 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: at the end, But I have what I think is 491 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: hilarious listener mail great as a sav awesome listen. I'm 492 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: still on the Doctor Pepper recipes. This is from our 493 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: listener Libby, who writes, hey, you wonderful people. As soon 494 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: as I heard the Friday episode about Doctor Pepper, I 495 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: knew I had to share my lifelong connection to doctor Pepper. 496 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: My grandfather owned a soda bottling plant and for a while, 497 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: bottled for Doctor Pepper. As such, my family practically memorized 498 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: the cookbook that doctor Pepper put out, and Doctor Pepper 499 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: is either an ingredient or a staple at our family gatherings. 500 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: Some of my favorite ways to consume it include sloppy 501 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: Joe's gravy for Thanksgiving, Choco PEPs that's doctor Pepper, and 502 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: chocolate ice cream that actually sounds amazing to me, and 503 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: doctor Pepper milk. I mix mine one part doctor Pepper 504 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: to two parts milk. When we were kids, there was 505 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: always doctor Pepper in glass bottles at my grandparents' house. 506 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: And you knew you had made it when you got 507 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: to have the bottle and the other person had to 508 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: have it in a glass. We always had to share. 509 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: I even drink it when I'm sick because I'm convinced 510 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: that it will make me well anyway. That is all. 511 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for all your hard work. You're honestly the 512 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: best Libby. I love this. I actually want the gravy recipe. 513 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to go looking for it now, 514 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: because here's the thing, Like, I don't I have lost 515 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: track of how common it might be in more northern places, 516 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: but I know in the South that's pretty common to 517 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: use soda in various cooking things, right, Like a lot 518 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: of pot roasty type recipes will include soda of some sort, 519 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: and often it does make them very tender and super delicious. 520 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: So I'm very curious about the gravy. Yeah. So Patrick 521 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: has a braised short rib recipe that uses prune juice 522 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: as one of the ingredients for the braising liquid, and 523 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: I kind of feel like Doctor Pepper would have some 524 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:44,479 Speaker 1: similar notes, yeah to go with that. Yeah, apparently you 525 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: can get the official Doctor Pepper Cookbook in a variety 526 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: of formats. I'm sure there have been various different ones 527 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: over the years. I'm gonna hunt one down and get 528 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: one for myself and find out what it's all about. 529 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: Just listen. We love to play in the kitchen. But 530 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: that does sound great. I feel like that's such a 531 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: comforting and delightful thing to have as part of all 532 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: your family traditions. I love it again. I think, uh, 533 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: doctor Pepper on chocolate ice cream sounds oh very good. Yeah. 534 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: I do like to make an ice cream float, and 535 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: I think that sounds possibly yummy. My thing lately is 536 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: what things can I put on a doll whip. Yeah, 537 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: I think Doctor Pepper would be good because I invested, 538 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, as all wise consumers do, in a soft 539 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: serve machine for my house. So I like to make 540 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: dol whip at home and put things on it. Well, 541 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: And as you have explained to me, you cannot just 542 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: make a dull whip. You have a whole thing of 543 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: doll whip mix that you got to you gotta use 544 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: it or you gotta throw it away. So you can 545 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: just have a whole Doctor Pepper dole whip party. Yeah. 546 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: We only bring that out for parties because it's like 547 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: the industrial mix that we get and like, we still 548 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: end up having to pull some into pints and putting 549 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: it in the freezer before we out the machine. I 550 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: don't know why I have decided, in my advancing years 551 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: to purchase a thing that requires me to do the 552 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: work that normal places of business would hire like a 553 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: seventeen year old to do. But here I am cleaning 554 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: out that soft serve machine at like three in the morning, 555 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: after everybody's left. But it's a delight makes parties very fun. 556 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: If you have any other ideas of things I might 557 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: put on top of my doll whip or soft serve, 558 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: you'd send those right to me. You could do that 559 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: historypodcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 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