WEBVTT - Week in Tech: Could a Dead Cat Sink Waymo?

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<v Speaker 1>From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is tech stuff. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Oz Valascian and I'm care Price. Today we've got a

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<v Speaker 1>few big stories to break down for you. First, the

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<v Speaker 1>loss of a beloved neighborhood cat puts a spotlight on

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<v Speaker 1>the autonomous vehicle company Weimo. Then, after facing pressure from

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<v Speaker 1>the Chinese government, Apple removes two popular gay dating apps

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<v Speaker 1>from its store in China. App We'll dive into what

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<v Speaker 1>that could mean for the rest of us.

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<v Speaker 2>Then we'll tell you about a few other stories that

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<v Speaker 2>cut our eye this week, like how the FBI is

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly targeting a popular Internet archive, the flight app that

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<v Speaker 2>may take the guesswork out of holiday travel, and we

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<v Speaker 2>break down why tech titans keep building giant statues an

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<v Speaker 2>obsession with immortality perhaps.

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<v Speaker 1>Then on chatting me, do you consider chat gpt to

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<v Speaker 1>be a friend? Now all of that on the Week

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<v Speaker 1>in Tech is Friday, November twenty First, Hello.

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<v Speaker 2>Cara, Hi, as.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm about to do something I swore I would never do.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you know what omerta is? No America is

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<v Speaker 1>the code of silence of the mafia. Okay, I went

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<v Speaker 1>to a school called Eaton.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm aware I listened to Utah.

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<v Speaker 1>We have our own Omerta.

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<v Speaker 2>You do, yes. Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Never talk about the firm, right.

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<v Speaker 2>The one rule of fight club is never talk about

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<v Speaker 2>fight club exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Internally you can complain and you know, obviously say all

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<v Speaker 1>the bad things about it. But externally that's omerta smile

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<v Speaker 1>and stiffupper lip exactly. For those who don't know, Eaton

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<v Speaker 1>is an all boys boarding school in Britain, founded in

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<v Speaker 1>fourteen forty.

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<v Speaker 2>That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>There was nothing around it for America. For Charka, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's around the same time. Actually around the same time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was originally founded by a king I can't remember

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<v Speaker 1>which one, to be a scholarship school for very bright

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<v Speaker 1>young boys who could then grow up to be government administrators.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh interesting, But as with all the best things, it

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<v Speaker 1>instead became a bastion for privilege and all of the

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<v Speaker 1>wealthiest people to send their shortren It's where Prince William

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<v Speaker 1>and Prince Harry went, and my childhood was spent. All

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<v Speaker 1>my years thirteen to eighteen was spent with busloads of

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<v Speaker 1>tourists getting off buses to stare at me and say,

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<v Speaker 1>is this Harry Potter? So I hope none of my

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<v Speaker 1>friends from eating and listening. In fact, I'm sure they're

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<v Speaker 1>not so. I got an email a few days ago

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<v Speaker 1>from the Old Etonian Association.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how you, guys, say alumni alumni exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>The headline was on pleasure and business, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>all about, drum roll, the release of a new.

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<v Speaker 2>App, an eaten app.

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<v Speaker 1>An eaten app. The email hit my inbox contain the

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<v Speaker 1>following sentence. It will help reinforce what we all do already.

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<v Speaker 1>Given two options that look the same, most of us

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<v Speaker 1>will instinctively choose the old Etonian one. In an old

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<v Speaker 1>Etonian environment, we'll go to the Oe founded restaurant, drink,

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<v Speaker 1>the Oe founded wine book, the Oe founded hotel. The

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<v Speaker 1>marketplace will simply support that instinct, making it visible, easy

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<v Speaker 1>and fun. It's basically social shopping in a closed network.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you do any social shopping? You mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Do I do shopping on social media by buy books

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<v Speaker 2>on the basis of what I see on social media? Absolutely? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I do that all the time. Do I shop on

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<v Speaker 2>the basis of going to Trevor Day School?

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<v Speaker 1>Now? Well, continuing to quote from the email, You'll be

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<v Speaker 1>able to sell a painting, hire a lawyer, rent a house,

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<v Speaker 1>find a cello, teacher, advertise a vineyard, promote a play,

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<v Speaker 1>offer investment, or buy a boat or a case of wine.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll be able to promote your business, host to talk,

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<v Speaker 1>offer advice, or list something completely unexpected. A vintage punt,

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<v Speaker 1>a mid century sideboard, a labradoodle with a better pedigree

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<v Speaker 1>than its owner.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that a better pedigree that it's? You know, this

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of the perfect thing for you, because this

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<v Speaker 2>is like LinkedIn meets Amazon if you want to eat.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, that is that is perfect? You know. Just as

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<v Speaker 1>we leave this one behind, The Times of London wrote

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<v Speaker 1>a story about this, which I can say the only

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<v Speaker 1>reason I'm talking about it because your meditor has already

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<v Speaker 1>been broken. Everyone in courted No. Coming back to that

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<v Speaker 1>line about giving a choice between two things, what instinct

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<v Speaker 1>if you choose the old Etonian one. Somebody made a

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<v Speaker 1>crack about how that hadn't worked out so well in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of choosing prime ministers. Boris Johnson, I think of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six or twenty seven. In all there was a

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<v Speaker 1>room where all the busts of the old prim minister said,

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty seven white marble faces.

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<v Speaker 2>To memorize their names. Probably, well, you kind of knew

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<v Speaker 2>most it was like the residence of the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is the first and last time I will

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<v Speaker 1>ever speak about eating with you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not the last time I'm going to ask about you,

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<v Speaker 2>especially because I know there's no merit. I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>that before I would be badgering the constantly.

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<v Speaker 1>So a couple of weeks ago, you introduced me to

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<v Speaker 1>an AI R and B artist called Zanaia. I did.

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<v Speaker 1>I did you as so often were head of the game.

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<v Speaker 1>Because last week there are actually three AI generated chart toppers,

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<v Speaker 1>really they were. One was a Dutch anti refugee anthem

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<v Speaker 1>charting on Spotify. But there's also a country music track

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<v Speaker 1>called Walk My Walk that's number one in the Country

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<v Speaker 1>Music Billboard chart.

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<v Speaker 2>You're kidding me. That's an AI tune, AI tune. I

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<v Speaker 2>think this just means that AI knows what people like.

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<v Speaker 1>And Paul McCartney do you know? Paul McCartney responded, how

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<v Speaker 1>Paul McCartney is releasing a record with just silence in protest?

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<v Speaker 1>Really a pressed record with a B side just silence.

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<v Speaker 2>You're kidding me, that's amazing he should. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>have a very unpopular opinion about this.

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<v Speaker 1>What's that well.

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<v Speaker 2>I just think that every musician should try to use

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<v Speaker 2>AI tools with the gifts that they're given of songwriting.

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<v Speaker 1>What about every podcast or should they try to use

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<v Speaker 1>AI sound music making tools? Because this one has You're

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<v Speaker 1>a kidding without further ado, here is owe to KitKat?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh kid cat? Where'd you go? This city's hot?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god? This is beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>You listen without your paw, without your per I.

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<v Speaker 2>Can't believe you did this. This is unbelievable. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>know this about This is about KitKat who got killed

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<v Speaker 2>by weymoth? You're kidding me that you did this?

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<v Speaker 1>Chase the bird, swash the claw.

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<v Speaker 2>Wheel and wait with machines.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't see what a cat means to a family.

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<v Speaker 1>I used sooner AI and I wrote about it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a gorgeous song.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a beautiful song.

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<v Speaker 2>Make that for how much money?

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<v Speaker 1>Zero?

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm saying, ceremony, That's what I'm saying. The

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<v Speaker 2>par reference, I'm just blown away.

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<v Speaker 1>Lyrics actually, and I want to pull the lyrics for you.

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<v Speaker 2>So you didn't write Obviously you didn't didn't write lyrics.

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<v Speaker 1>Ballad about a cat who got killed by an autonomous vehicle.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really amazing, unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 2>We are living in a crase.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's not even a story. We've got different stories.

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<v Speaker 1>We got a transition.

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<v Speaker 2>I just can't believe that you just did that.

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<v Speaker 1>So a few weeks ago, a cat named kit Kat

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<v Speaker 1>was killed after being struck by waymer. You know this story,

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<v Speaker 1>I do. Kit Cat was a beloved neighborhood cat lived

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<v Speaker 1>at a local corner market in San Francisco's Mission District.

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<v Speaker 1>He had the nickname the Mayor of Sixteenth Street, and

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<v Speaker 1>he would actively visit all the local businesses in return

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<v Speaker 1>for treats. In twenty twenty, he was listed by s

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<v Speaker 1>F Gate as one of San Francisco's favorite shop caps.

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<v Speaker 2>We call them cats.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happened? There's multiple versions of the story. Weimo

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<v Speaker 1>said that the cat darted under the car as it

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<v Speaker 1>was pulling out. Multiple witnesses allege that they saw KitKat

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<v Speaker 1>underneath the car as the car started moving and people

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<v Speaker 1>tried to stop the car. In fact, here's a quote

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<v Speaker 1>from the owner of the shop, Mike Zaidan, where KitKat lived.

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<v Speaker 1>This lady said there was no one to yet out

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<v Speaker 1>in the car, no driver. They were touching the car

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<v Speaker 1>hoping it wouldn't move and it just ran him over.

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<v Speaker 2>Unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you imagine that beating beating on a car.

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<v Speaker 2>That is uncanny, right, that's really uncanny. Valley.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's what a witness said, So spooky. If it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>a weymo, if it was a person driving the car,

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<v Speaker 1>they could have stopped.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, this is horror. This is this is this

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<v Speaker 2>is a Yeah, that's what I'm going to say. It's

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<v Speaker 2>really spooky, and imagine it's something else.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, well, that's except interestingly, and we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>get onto this. Yeah, there actually no reports that Weimo

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<v Speaker 1>has ever killed anyone. You can't say the same for

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<v Speaker 1>Tesla's full self driving mode, though. There's been a growing

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<v Speaker 1>memorial for KitKat outside the bodega, and part of what

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<v Speaker 1>is really interesting to me here is there is actually

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth at the memorial as to how to

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<v Speaker 1>interpret this story. I'm going to get onto that too.

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<v Speaker 1>But let's start with the people who basically using this

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<v Speaker 1>as a moment to say enough, as in us treating

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<v Speaker 1>this as kind of a referendum on where the San

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<v Speaker 1>Francisco should have these self.

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<v Speaker 2>Driving cars because of the loss of a cat.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so here's what a local bar owner said, quote

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<v Speaker 1>KitKat was taken by technology that none of us asked

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<v Speaker 1>for and none of us consented to. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>Survey USA did a news poll fifty eight percent of

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<v Speaker 1>Californians don't want self driving cars in their neighborhoods.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>That surprised me a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that feels high.

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<v Speaker 1>Jackie Fielder, who's a San Francisco City supervisor, is planning

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<v Speaker 1>to introduce legislation that would allow counties to decide whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not they'll permit the operation of autonomous vehicles.

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<v Speaker 2>Sort of be in a county by county basis.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know. I don't know how far

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<v Speaker 1>this will go, whether it has legs. But it is interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>Like a cat gets killed, people are beating on the

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<v Speaker 1>windows their minds. People wake up and think this is

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<v Speaker 1>actually pretty weird. Do we really want this?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I agree with weymo no existing. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't why do we need autonomous vehicles?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I don't know. Cheaper human drivers, more labors placed,

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<v Speaker 1>more money for corporation.

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<v Speaker 2>There go, and like doesn't seem very safe to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, a twenty twenty four peer of view'd study says

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<v Speaker 1>that you're wrong. Oh, human driven vehicles apparently crash five

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<v Speaker 1>times more than weymo's. Our producers actually pulled city data

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<v Speaker 1>and it turns out human drivers killed forty three people

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<v Speaker 1>in San Francisco last year and zero were killed by weymo's.

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<v Speaker 1>The Mayor of San Francisco actually went on Pivot to

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<v Speaker 1>defend Waymo's during the interview. Interesting, and all of this

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<v Speaker 1>comes at a time, by the way, when weimo is

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<v Speaker 1>actually expanding deeper into the Bay Area, all the way

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<v Speaker 1>into San Jose Angels and last week, I think for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time, they were all out on the freeway.

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<v Speaker 1>It is interesting though, that this is not the first

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<v Speaker 1>time San Francisco has been roiled by a self driving

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<v Speaker 1>car accident. Remember the last one there was a division

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<v Speaker 1>of General Motors called Cruise, and a Cruz hit a

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<v Speaker 1>woman and similarly dragged her for twenty feet because it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know what was going on. She actually survived, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was one of those other moments where a machine

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<v Speaker 1>that has clearly not recognized that something terribly is going

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<v Speaker 1>wrong is happening. In the aftermath of that, General Motors

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<v Speaker 1>paused their self driving taxi service after having invested more

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<v Speaker 1>than ten billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>So final thought on this from me is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>who knows what will happen, But the world is taking

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<v Speaker 1>notice of kit Kat's death and the Weimo killing it,

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<v Speaker 1>and the debate about how much we want autonomous vehicles

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.679
<v Speaker 1>and robots in our space, and this kind of made

0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:20.400
<v Speaker 1>me think of Blackfish. I remember was about the orca

0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 1>and it kind of led to the end of Sea World.

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.760
<v Speaker 1>It was still open, it is, but it's really that

0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.079
<v Speaker 1>they have to host I went to the conference for

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 1>investigative journalists which was hosted at SeaWorld because it was

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:37.679
<v Speaker 1>the only conference center cheap enough. So it's very weird

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to be there. But you know, Weimo is a much

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 1>more powerful company than the SeaWorld. But these moments where

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 1>our heartstring by animals being hurt can be monumental moments

0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 1>of changing culture. So I think we should keep an

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:52.959
<v Speaker 1>eye on this.

0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 2>The kind of rule of thumb there is, don't hurt

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:56.880
<v Speaker 2>an animal if you want your company to succeed.

0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Okay.

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 2>So I am taking us to a galaxy far far

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 2>away China.

0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.920
<v Speaker 1>China, Yes, my favorite place to talk about.

0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.319
<v Speaker 2>You recently talked to Joseph Cox about how ice Block

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.640
<v Speaker 2>and other citizen apps were removed from app stores at

0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.959
<v Speaker 2>the request of the US government, as two Chinese LGBTQ

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.719
<v Speaker 2>plus dating apps have now been removed from Apple and

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Android stores at the request of the Chinese Communist Party,

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 2>which is something that I find extremely alarming.

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that that is alarming. And I mean you mentioned

0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 1>that ice block story about you know how under pressure

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>from the US government, Apple and I guess Google, through

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.680
<v Speaker 1>the Android store, we're pulling these ice monitoring apps. Actually,

0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 1>I believe Apple sells more iPhones per year in China

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 1>than they do in the US, so correct, I guess. Unfortunately,

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.559
<v Speaker 1>money talks, and if the Chinese government tell apples do

0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:53.839
<v Speaker 1>something just like here in the US they do, they'll do.

0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.199
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's what's happened.

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.120
<v Speaker 1>But I understand why the US government wants to get

0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.560
<v Speaker 1>rid of ice apps. Why does the Chinese government want

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>to get rid of gay dating apps.

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a good question because I was under the

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.480
<v Speaker 2>impression that the public opinion on homosexuality in China was

0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.480
<v Speaker 2>actually getting more accepting, not less accepting. So I actually

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 2>looked into the trends and this this is what I found.

0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 2>China decriminalized homosexuality in nineteen ninety seven. For context, US

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>and UK were decriminalizing homosexuality back in the nineteen sixties. Okay,

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 2>here's what's been going on recently. In the twenty twenties,

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Shanghai Pride was actually shut down, and in twenty twenty one,

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.920
<v Speaker 2>social media accounts for a dozen student led LGBTQ plus

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:36.520
<v Speaker 2>organizations were actually banned.

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Wow, this is really interesting. I wonder what was driving

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 1>What were the actual apps that were removed?

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 2>So one is actually called Bludha and the other app

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 2>is called Finka. Bluda is especially popular and has been

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.280
<v Speaker 2>active since twenty twelve. By twenty twenty, the app had

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 2>forty nine million users and six million monthly active users.

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Other other like use Grinder in China likewives No.

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no no. Other LGBTQ plus dating apps have

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.120
<v Speaker 2>already been targeted. Most were blocked from the Chinese marketplace

0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 2>back in twenty twelve, and then in twenty twenty two,

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Grinder was removed from Apple's Chinese store.

0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 1>And can users still use the apps that I download

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.040
<v Speaker 1>block or is it a usage block?

0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 2>So? According to Wired, previously downloaded apps still appear to

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 2>be working, but the original apps are not discoverable in

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:29.600
<v Speaker 2>the app store anymore.

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 1>And how did the Chinese government communicate to Apple they

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 1>wanted this to happen?

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 3>Do we know? So?

0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Apple actually said they were following an order from the

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Cyberspace Administration of China, which is an incredible or you

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 2>can just imagine working for the Cyberspace Administration of China, say.

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 1>You think they might have bigger fish to fry, and

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>they prepare for will.

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Never the biggest fish that they have to fry.

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 1>That's crazy. You know, I was really interested in the

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>ice Block story a few weeks ago because you know

0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 1>that the right have been obsessed for a long time

0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 1>about being deep platformed by technology companies. This was Elon

0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 1>buying x Trump starting truth social But actually it seems

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>right now. I mean, at least from this examples that

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 1>ice Block being removed, these gay data apts being removed

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.720
<v Speaker 1>in China. Have you put on the left to it

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.520
<v Speaker 1>being hurt more by deplatforming by the tech companies. I

0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 1>guess those in power are the ones to whom the

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>tech companies answers the people are to worry about the

0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 1>deplatforms are the ones out of power.

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, and that is clearly true.

0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 1>But you don't see people on the left coming together

0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 1>and saying, actually, although we disagree on the content, we

0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 1>think that people on the right were right about the

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.560
<v Speaker 1>power of these tech companies a deep platform. But what

0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 1>about you, I mean, how do you see the wider

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:42.680
<v Speaker 1>context of this story?

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think there is something worth noting, which is

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 2>that Apple has a long standing policy of denying government

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 2>requests for access to encrypted data. So the company says

0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 2>they will never create a backdoor or master key to

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 2>any of their products or services. But they also seem

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.360
<v Speaker 2>to fold commpletely when it comes to deplatforming apps from

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 2>their app store.

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes, don't put too much trust in big tech exactly exactly.

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.240
<v Speaker 2>After the break, tech bros want to build statues and

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.679
<v Speaker 2>the FBI attempts to unmask the mysterious owner of Archive Today,

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 2>stay with.

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Us and we're back.

0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:32.879
<v Speaker 2>Hello.

0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Hello. So sometimes friends send me links to articles in

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.920
<v Speaker 1>publications that they don't subscribe to and that I don't

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>subscribe to. Using these internet archiving tools to get around.

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Pay walls, it's how I read most things I know.

0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.360
<v Speaker 1>But I have and I have mixed feelings and being

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 1>in the business of publishing content. I probably more than

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.840
<v Speaker 1>most feel it's important to pay publishers for content. On

0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the other hand, has become.

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.199
<v Speaker 2>The norm and a way that we get a lot

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:01.639
<v Speaker 2>of articles.

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's true, and I mean certainly there's a bunch

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 1>of stories that I wouldn't have seen if people haven't

0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.359
<v Speaker 1>sent me these links to stories that are in paywalled publications.

0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 1>And some of those stories, in fact, we've talked about

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.879
<v Speaker 1>on the show. Now, the FBI wants to know who's

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 1>behind one of the most popular of these sites, Archive

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:20.399
<v Speaker 1>dot is.

0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>And what is archive dot is?

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 1>Archive is is an Internet archiving website. It's different from

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 1>the Wayback Machine, which is owned by the nonprofit organization

0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 1>the Internet Archive. According to an FAQ page on archive

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.480
<v Speaker 1>dot is, it's quote privately funded. There are no complex

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>finances behind it. And as I mentioned, it allows users

0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.919
<v Speaker 1>to archive articles and web pages bypass paywalls. And it's

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.920
<v Speaker 1>one of several sites, including the Internet Archive, that is

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.399
<v Speaker 1>saving government web pages and data sets that have been

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.920
<v Speaker 1>removed or changed since Trump took office in January twenty

0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:57.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty five.

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 2>So do you know what the subpoene said? What is

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:01.760
<v Speaker 2>the FBI trying to find out.

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 1>It seems like it's an attempt to unmask the person

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.639
<v Speaker 1>behind the website and its sister websites like Archive dot

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.200
<v Speaker 1>to day and Archive dot pH.

0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.880
<v Speaker 2>So does the Internet have any ideas about who could

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.359
<v Speaker 2>be behind Archive today?

0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, the domain is registered to Dennis Petrov, but that's

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:19.720
<v Speaker 1>likely an alias.

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:21.240
<v Speaker 2>Real name.

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 1>There's a twenty twenty three blog post that did a

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 1>deep dive into who the owner might be, and there's

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.680
<v Speaker 1>a quote on that blog saying it's a one person

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.560
<v Speaker 1>labor of love operated by a Russian of considerable talent

0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 1>and access to Europe.

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.439
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if Dennis Petrov wrote that.

0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Or maybe Dennis Petrov is a KGP.

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Agent, possibly passibly. So I guess my last question is like,

0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:44.080
<v Speaker 2>why is the FBI doing this?

0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, we don't know. It doesn't say why in the

0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:51.320
<v Speaker 1>subpoena and they haven't commented publicly. Ours Technica theorizes that

0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.560
<v Speaker 1>it could be a copyright infringement issue because the archive

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.720
<v Speaker 1>doesn't have a policy to remove content that has copyright infringement.

0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 1>That said, this is is the Trump administration's FBI. The

0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Trump administration based on their AI policy and not tremendous

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 1>defenders of copyright. Yes, so it seems like it's something

0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 1>else going on here. Some have speculated they may be

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.679
<v Speaker 1>a political motivation because of the way sites like archive

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:19.280
<v Speaker 1>dot I make it impossible to scrub Internet history. There's

0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:20.480
<v Speaker 1>also the Russian connection.

0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Russian connection, we just don't know. Speaking of Russia, it's

0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:25.760
<v Speaker 2>your frequent flyer.

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.720
<v Speaker 1>If I have a Russian visa at my passport, which

0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:28.840
<v Speaker 1>always makes me freak out.

0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh I do too, I went many years ago. Do

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:35.119
<v Speaker 2>you use flight apps?

0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:36.479
<v Speaker 1>I hate apps?

0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 3>You really do.

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Like you use WhatsApp, It's like it's your hero app, WhatsApp.

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 1>Text I don't have. I think I probably had a

0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:44.960
<v Speaker 1>couple of airline apps on my phone, but I really

0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm a mobile web browser, one of the last right.

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 2>That's for Instagram as well. Sometimes true. So have you

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:52.600
<v Speaker 2>heard about Flighty before?

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:52.840
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.240
<v Speaker 2>So Flighty is this flight tracker that I read about

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 2>recently in the Wall Street Journal. I'm like, not a

0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.680
<v Speaker 2>huge frequent flyer, so I don't. I'm not like following

0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.880
<v Speaker 2>different flight paths and all that stuff that other people

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.639
<v Speaker 2>who loved to fly follow. But I wanted people to

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 2>know about this in preparation for next week, which is

0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, the busiest time of year to travel.

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Thank god for the government shutdown being over exactly.

0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:18.879
<v Speaker 2>So this flight app Flighty is so data rich that

0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 2>people have said they get Flighty updates before the airlines

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:24.160
<v Speaker 2>convey new information.

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 2>And that's even their tagline, Flighty get delay alerts faster

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 2>than the airlines.

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 1>That's incredible.

0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 2>You know who loves to use it? Pilots.

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:34.959
<v Speaker 1>Wow, they get better information from flight than from when

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.440
<v Speaker 1>they're you know, tragic. That doesn't surprise me.

0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I know, you're like at the gate and it's saying

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:41.480
<v Speaker 2>it's delayed when it doesn't say it at the gate.

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:43.480
<v Speaker 2>It's crazy. You know who else loves it?

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 1>The points guy, The points guy love you know what,

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:47.560
<v Speaker 1>I actually download this.

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.920
<v Speaker 2>You would like it because you know what, you like

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.639
<v Speaker 2>the fact that it's before the airlines Google.

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 1>You like the exclusivity anyway, But how does it work?

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 2>So there's a guy named Ryan Jones, which is a

0:21:58.119 --> 0:21:58.560
<v Speaker 2>real name.

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, Dennis Petrol, Well, Dennis Petrov.

0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Is the Ryan Jones of Russia. Is definitely what it is.

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.600
<v Speaker 2>But he actually built this really popular weather app called Weatherline,

0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.200
<v Speaker 2>and then he started working on Flighty in the strangest

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 2>of places and airport Chili's Apple.

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Like Jensen Huang starting in video at Denny's.

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 2>It's exactly like that. So what he did is he

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:24.120
<v Speaker 2>brought in one hundred pilots to evaluate the data he had,

0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 2>so he knew this is the best stuff from put

0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.480
<v Speaker 2>I can see you downloading this as I speak. He

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:31.520
<v Speaker 2>spent two years this just to give you a sense

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 2>of like how much he really This wasn't just like

0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.200
<v Speaker 2>on a whim. He spent two years in beta working

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.800
<v Speaker 2>out any data kinks, so by the time he launched

0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.800
<v Speaker 2>in twenty nineteen, there wouldn't be any issues. He also

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 2>asked his social media followers what they would want in

0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:46.920
<v Speaker 2>a flight tracking app, and you know what they said,

0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 2>clean design, nice and they won an Apple Design Award,

0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.879
<v Speaker 2>which was one of Jones's initial goals when he was

0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 2>laying out the app at Chili's.

0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:57.399
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty amazing.

0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.600
<v Speaker 2>So Flighty pays for both private and public flight data

0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:03.560
<v Speaker 2>from around the world in order to stay up to date.

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.639
<v Speaker 2>This data can include things like the number of hours

0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 2>lost to delays, the make and model of your plane,

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:11.240
<v Speaker 2>which you know a lot of people are interested in

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.680
<v Speaker 2>when it flew for the first time, whether you have

0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 2>flown on it before, and if your plane has a name.

0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:20.880
<v Speaker 1>This is actually my dream come true.

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Like the thing is, you're sick enough to want to

0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 2>know all this stuff about your plane.

0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:28.720
<v Speaker 1>I am, in fact, sometimes I google the tail numbers

0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.200
<v Speaker 1>of planes all the time, not even private. But also

0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 1>you can find out, especially if you're flying outside of

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 1>the US or outside of like Western Europe and you're

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.600
<v Speaker 1>in like a you know, another country, you can find

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.360
<v Speaker 1>out which major airline owned your plane.

0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Before before it became a second hand exlightly dumpster.

0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:45.920
<v Speaker 1>So I do like that kind of stuff. I will

0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 1>download flight toy. We've talked about memory a couple of

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:54.119
<v Speaker 1>times in this episode kit Kat's memorial. Yes, the Internet archive.

0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.960
<v Speaker 1>So for my final story, I couldn't resist headline in Bloomberg,

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.440
<v Speaker 1>which was America's tech right is obsessed with building giant

0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:04.119
<v Speaker 1>statues and.

0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Who is the tech right?

0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Peter Teel and most rich people. But there's one guy

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:14.640
<v Speaker 1>called Ross Calvin who runs a mining company and it's

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.480
<v Speaker 1>so good and he wants to build a statue of

0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Prometheus on Alcatraz. You won't know how high he wants

0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:23.639
<v Speaker 1>a statue to be high four hundred and fifty feet.

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:28.480
<v Speaker 1>That's humorious, an enormous, enormous statue. Prometheus, of course, was

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:32.120
<v Speaker 1>the Greek god who gave men technology against the will

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.600
<v Speaker 1>of the gods, and he's seen as an embodiment of

0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the West's greatest traits.

0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 2>At first, I think you're healing about Ross Calvin. Then

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:39.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, no, he's talking about Prometheus.

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:44.600
<v Speaker 1>There are some other tech bros who want monuments. Mo Mahmood,

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>the founder of a startup called More Monuments. I wonder

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:54.200
<v Speaker 1>if there's a lot of money more Monuments. He wants

0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to build a statue of George Washington. Guess how high?

0:24:57.880 --> 0:24:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Tell me six hundred and fifty feet.

0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:01.199
<v Speaker 2>That's like a skyscraper.

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg created a tiny, tiny, tiny statue of his wife.

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 1>You know how small? Seven feet?

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:12.440
<v Speaker 2>I guess that's true.

0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:14.760
<v Speaker 1>You wanted to quote bring back the Roman tradition of

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:16.399
<v Speaker 1>making sculptures of your wife.

0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:17.399
<v Speaker 2>People are crazy.

0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Joe Lonsdale, a co founder of Pallantier, commissioned a neoclassical

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.280
<v Speaker 1>bust of none other than Barry Wise.

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.320
<v Speaker 2>You're kidding, kidding? Is that real?

0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 1>That's real? Lonsdale, like the President is a huge fan

0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:32.119
<v Speaker 1>of the neoclassical style.

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:35.920
<v Speaker 2>This is very euro of Lonsdale. Yeah, it's very euro

0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:37.480
<v Speaker 2>and it's also very trump.

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:43.240
<v Speaker 1>You know which great Europeans loved neoclassical architecture, which Benito Muslini,

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Adolf Hitler.

0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg has a quote from the author Erica Doss, who

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:56.160
<v Speaker 1>wrote a book called Memorial Memorial Mania.

0:25:56.200 --> 0:26:00.879
<v Speaker 2>Dedicating memorial had she dedicating your life to writing about memorials, but.

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 1>She said, quote, it's right out of the fascist playbook

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 1>name and autocracy that doesn't have a neoclassical obsession. And

0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:11.160
<v Speaker 1>she pointed out that this affinity for classical design calls

0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.680
<v Speaker 1>back to the Roman and Greek empires, who promoted societies

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>with strong perception of triumphant masculinity.

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:22.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, monuments and statues show what a person or

0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:27.600
<v Speaker 2>country really values. If America the tech writer are exclusively

0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:32.600
<v Speaker 2>pushing European style monuments with Greek gods and goddess's triumphant, like,

0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:35.080
<v Speaker 2>what does that tell you about their values?

0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, at a time of new monuments being built

0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:43.240
<v Speaker 1>by and funded by tech overlords. I mean, in one sense,

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:45.920
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of a silly story, but on the other hand.

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Its consequence real consequence, I think.

0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:53.120
<v Speaker 1>Do you know the poem Ossi Mandius no Osi Mandias

0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:55.960
<v Speaker 1>was a poem that I liked by Shelley, and it

0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:57.879
<v Speaker 1>was one that we had to read a lot at school.

0:26:58.160 --> 0:26:59.720
<v Speaker 1>I want to read you a little bit of it, please,

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.760
<v Speaker 1>And on the pedestal these words appear. My name is

0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Ossie Mandius, king of Kings. Look on my works, mighty

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:15.359
<v Speaker 1>and despair. Nothing beside remains round the decay of that

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:20.160
<v Speaker 1>colossal wreck, boundless and bare, the lone and level sand

0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:25.360
<v Speaker 1>stretch far away. This is a head of a statue,

0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:28.320
<v Speaker 1>just in the desert, by itself, that to me says

0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 1>it all. This, this desire for immortality to self memorials great.

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:38.320
<v Speaker 1>It's tragic, and it ends with junk in an empty desert.

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Ozzie, I have a feeling that you don't follow something

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:55.879
<v Speaker 2>that I follow very closely. Also, the escapades of one

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:56.959
<v Speaker 2>miss Kim Kardashian.

0:27:57.400 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I follow them when I see them on the daily,

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:03.320
<v Speaker 1>of course. And my wife wis the Hulu Shao. So

0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:05.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm a she did Kim is part of my life. Okay.

0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>So it's not like you're completely kim agnostic.

0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not kim agnostive. I've also not a huge Kim

0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:11.200
<v Speaker 1>stan Well.

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:14.360
<v Speaker 2>So you probably miss this, which is that Kim recently did.

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever seen these Vanity Fair Lie Detector tests.

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.040
<v Speaker 2>It's like a content piece that they do. That's fun.

0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:20.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a celebrity video.

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's basically them doing a polygraph. Oh wow, Okay,

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.240
<v Speaker 2>And she was doing it for her new show All's Fair,

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:30.600
<v Speaker 2>which I watch. And when I saw this video, I

0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:32.119
<v Speaker 2>knew I had to bring it to Chat and Me

0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>because during her lie detector test that she did through

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Vanity Fairs Lie Detector Test content feature, Kim admitted to

0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 2>co star Tiana Taylor that she uses chat GPT.

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.960
<v Speaker 3>Do you consider chat gpt to be a friend?

0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 2>No?

0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 3>I use it for legal advice.

0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 4>So when I am needing to know the answer to

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 4>a question, I'll take a picture and snap it and

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:56.000
<v Speaker 4>like put it in there.

0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:59.480
<v Speaker 1>That wasn't the answer I was expecting the question, do

0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:02.520
<v Speaker 1>you can see chatchibts be a friend? I seem to

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 1>remember that Kim that she said no, No, Why would

0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:07.760
<v Speaker 1>you ask me that I don't have any friends. I'm

0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:08.840
<v Speaker 1>the most famous woman in the world.

0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 4>I know.

0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:10.920
<v Speaker 1>She was trained to be a lawyer, and of course

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:14.440
<v Speaker 1>her father famously was OJ's lawyer. Yes, but I'm curious

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:16.959
<v Speaker 1>to hear about Kim's thoughts on Chat's legal advice.

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:23.479
<v Speaker 4>They're always wrong. It has made me fail test all

0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 4>the time. And then I'll get mad and I'll like

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:26.720
<v Speaker 4>yell at him, be like you made me fail?

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Why did you do that? Technically? And it will consider

0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:32.000
<v Speaker 3>it refree. Yeah, so you're consider it refriend.

0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:34.000
<v Speaker 4>It's just no, I don't consider it a friend.

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 3>So she's a frend of me, Yes, a fun of me.

0:29:37.120 --> 0:29:39.520
<v Speaker 2>It's important to know that Kim is actually trying to

0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 2>become a real lawyer. She did a four year law

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>office apprenticeship, and she passed the Baby Bar exam after

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:49.440
<v Speaker 2>her fourth try, and she recently did take the California

0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Bar Exam.

0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Did she pause?

0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 2>No, But that's also not Chatchebt's fault. She's blaming that

0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:59.560
<v Speaker 2>on psychics. Actually, Kim does go on to say that

0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Chat tells her that she should believe in herself.

0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:04.360
<v Speaker 4>Then I will talk to it and say, hey, you're

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 4>going to make me fail. How does like that make

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 4>you feel that you need to really know these answers?

0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:12.120
<v Speaker 4>I'm coming to you and then it'll stay back to me.

0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 4>This is just teaching you to trust your own instincts.

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 3>You knew the answer, clock, so technically you a Chat

0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:24.320
<v Speaker 3>GPT are friends just toxic friends?

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:26.080
<v Speaker 1>On this scene.

0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Because I think she wanted to get back to the

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 2>original question, which is are you and Chat GBT?

0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:32.560
<v Speaker 4>I like it.

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 1>This is hard heartening, Jon. You don't no matter what

0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:37.280
<v Speaker 1>they say, you don't get derailed from your train of thought.

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly right, you know.

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I do think one of the I like Kim by

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:44.960
<v Speaker 1>the way, but entertained about, was that she was saying

0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 1>to Chat you made me fail. I'm not sure that's

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:51.040
<v Speaker 1>quite fair. On Chat. I think maybe she fails. She'd

0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 1>have time to study.

0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:53.760
<v Speaker 3>She studies a lot.

0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it's really hard. I think it's really hard.

0:30:56.560 --> 0:30:59.480
<v Speaker 1>This story got me thinking Kim isn't the only person

0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:02.760
<v Speaker 1>asking chatchipt for helpful legal Highly doubt she is. I

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>actually asked Chat for some help with legal problems the

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 1>other day, and I was I was very persuaded by

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 1>the answer. But then when I spoke to my real lawyer,

0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't need you anymore. You do, but beyond my lawyer.

0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:19.120
<v Speaker 1>I read a CNBC article the other day about a

0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.680
<v Speaker 1>divorced lawyer who said more and more young people are

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>using chat ChiPT for legal advice, which, of course she said,

0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:28.200
<v Speaker 1>it's a bad idea, but I am fascinated by this topic.

0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, listeners, we want to hear from you.

0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 2>So earlier this year I asked if anyone has used

0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.520
<v Speaker 2>chat GPT to write their wedding vows and I'm still

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.720
<v Speaker 2>waiting to hear that story. Or maybe you asked chat

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.040
<v Speaker 2>how to keep the spark alive in your relationship, So

0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>tell me what chat might say for that. We want

0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:45.440
<v Speaker 2>to hear from you.

0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Please send a voice memo to tech Stuff podcast at

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 1>gmail dot com. We'll give you a T shirt in return.

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 2>That's it for this week for tech Stuff.

0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:14.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm Kara Price and I'm oz Va Looshin. This episode

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:17.720
<v Speaker 1>was produced by Eliza Dennis Tyler Hill and Melissa Slaughter.

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.120
<v Speaker 1>It was executive produced by me Kara Price, Julian Nutta,

0:32:21.200 --> 0:32:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and Kate Osborne for Kaleidoscope and Katrina Norvel for iHeart Podcasts.

0:32:25.680 --> 0:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>The engineer is Beheth Fraser and Jack Insley Mix this episode.

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Kyle Murdock wrote out theme song. Please rate, review and

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.440
<v Speaker 1>reach out to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:36.800
<v Speaker 1>dot com. We want to hear from you.