1 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is tech stuff. I'm 2 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Oz Valascian and I'm care Price. Today we've got a 3 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: few big stories to break down for you. First, the 4 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: loss of a beloved neighborhood cat puts a spotlight on 5 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 1: the autonomous vehicle company Weimo. Then, after facing pressure from 6 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: the Chinese government, Apple removes two popular gay dating apps 7 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: from its store in China. App We'll dive into what 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: that could mean for the rest of us. 9 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: Then we'll tell you about a few other stories that 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: cut our eye this week, like how the FBI is 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: suddenly targeting a popular Internet archive, the flight app that 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: may take the guesswork out of holiday travel, and we 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: break down why tech titans keep building giant statues an 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: obsession with immortality perhaps. 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: Then on chatting me, do you consider chat gpt to 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: be a friend? Now all of that on the Week 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: in Tech is Friday, November twenty First, Hello. 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: Cara, Hi, as. 19 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm about to do something I swore I would never do. 20 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: What do you know what omerta is? No America is 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: the code of silence of the mafia. Okay, I went 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: to a school called Eaton. 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: I'm aware I listened to Utah. 24 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: We have our own Omerta. 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: You do, yes. Interesting. 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: Never talk about the firm, right. 27 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 2: The one rule of fight club is never talk about 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 2: fight club exactly. 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Internally you can complain and you know, obviously say all 30 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: the bad things about it. But externally that's omerta smile 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: and stiffupper lip exactly. For those who don't know, Eaton 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: is an all boys boarding school in Britain, founded in 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: fourteen forty. 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: There was nothing around it for America. For Charka, I 36 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: think it's around the same time. Actually around the same time. 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: It was originally founded by a king I can't remember 38 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: which one, to be a scholarship school for very bright 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: young boys who could then grow up to be government administrators. 40 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, But as with all the best things, it 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: instead became a bastion for privilege and all of the 42 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: wealthiest people to send their shortren It's where Prince William 43 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: and Prince Harry went, and my childhood was spent. All 44 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: my years thirteen to eighteen was spent with busloads of 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: tourists getting off buses to stare at me and say, 46 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: is this Harry Potter? So I hope none of my 47 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: friends from eating and listening. In fact, I'm sure they're 48 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: not so. I got an email a few days ago 49 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: from the Old Etonian Association. 50 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: That's how you, guys, say alumni alumni exactly. 51 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: The headline was on pleasure and business, and it was 52 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: all about, drum roll, the release of a new. 53 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 2: App, an eaten app. 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: An eaten app. The email hit my inbox contain the 55 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: following sentence. It will help reinforce what we all do already. 56 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: Given two options that look the same, most of us 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: will instinctively choose the old Etonian one. In an old 58 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: Etonian environment, we'll go to the Oe founded restaurant, drink, 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: the Oe founded wine book, the Oe founded hotel. The 60 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: marketplace will simply support that instinct, making it visible, easy 61 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: and fun. It's basically social shopping in a closed network. 62 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: Do you do any social shopping? You mean? 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: Do I do shopping on social media by buy books 64 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: on the basis of what I see on social media? Absolutely? Yeah, 65 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: I do that all the time. Do I shop on 66 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: the basis of going to Trevor Day School? 67 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: Now? Well, continuing to quote from the email, You'll be 68 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: able to sell a painting, hire a lawyer, rent a house, 69 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: find a cello, teacher, advertise a vineyard, promote a play, 70 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: offer investment, or buy a boat or a case of wine. 71 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: You'll be able to promote your business, host to talk, 72 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: offer advice, or list something completely unexpected. A vintage punt, 73 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: a mid century sideboard, a labradoodle with a better pedigree 74 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: than its owner. 75 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: Is that a better pedigree that it's? You know, this 76 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: is kind of the perfect thing for you, because this 77 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: is like LinkedIn meets Amazon if you want to eat. 78 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: Oh, that is that is perfect? You know. Just as 79 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: we leave this one behind, The Times of London wrote 80 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: a story about this, which I can say the only 81 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: reason I'm talking about it because your meditor has already 82 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: been broken. Everyone in courted No. Coming back to that 83 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: line about giving a choice between two things, what instinct 84 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: if you choose the old Etonian one. Somebody made a 85 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: crack about how that hadn't worked out so well in 86 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: terms of choosing prime ministers. Boris Johnson, I think of 87 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: twenty six or twenty seven. In all there was a 88 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: room where all the busts of the old prim minister said, 89 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: the twenty seven white marble faces. 90 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: To memorize their names. Probably, well, you kind of knew 91 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: most it was like the residence of the United States. 92 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: So that is the first and last time I will 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: ever speak about eating with you. 94 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: It's not the last time I'm going to ask about you, 95 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: especially because I know there's no merit. I didn't know 96 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: that before I would be badgering the constantly. 97 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: So a couple of weeks ago, you introduced me to 98 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: an AI R and B artist called Zanaia. I did. 99 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: I did you as so often were head of the game. 100 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: Because last week there are actually three AI generated chart toppers, 101 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: really they were. One was a Dutch anti refugee anthem 102 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: charting on Spotify. But there's also a country music track 103 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: called Walk My Walk that's number one in the Country 104 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: Music Billboard chart. 105 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: You're kidding me. That's an AI tune, AI tune. I 106 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: think this just means that AI knows what people like. 107 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: And Paul McCartney do you know? Paul McCartney responded, how 108 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Paul McCartney is releasing a record with just silence in protest? 109 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: Really a pressed record with a B side just silence. 110 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 2: You're kidding me, that's amazing he should. I mean, I 111 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: have a very unpopular opinion about this. 112 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: What's that well. 113 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 2: I just think that every musician should try to use 114 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: AI tools with the gifts that they're given of songwriting. 115 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: What about every podcast or should they try to use 116 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: AI sound music making tools? Because this one has You're 117 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: a kidding without further ado, here is owe to KitKat? 118 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 1: Oh kid cat? Where'd you go? This city's hot? 119 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: Oh my god? This is beautiful. 120 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: You listen without your paw, without your per I. 121 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 2: Can't believe you did this. This is unbelievable. Do you 122 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: know this about This is about KitKat who got killed 123 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 2: by weymoth? You're kidding me that you did this? 124 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: Chase the bird, swash the claw. 125 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: Wheel and wait with machines. 126 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: Don't see what a cat means to a family. 127 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: I used sooner AI and I wrote about it. 128 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: That's a gorgeous song. 129 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful song. 130 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: Make that for how much money? 131 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: Zero? 132 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, ceremony, That's what I'm saying. The 133 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: par reference, I'm just blown away. 134 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: Lyrics actually, and I want to pull the lyrics for you. 135 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: So you didn't write Obviously you didn't didn't write lyrics. 136 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: Ballad about a cat who got killed by an autonomous vehicle. 137 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: It's really amazing, unbelievable. 138 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: We are living in a crase. 139 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: But that's not even a story. We've got different stories. 140 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: We got a transition. 141 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: I just can't believe that you just did that. 142 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: So a few weeks ago, a cat named kit Kat 143 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: was killed after being struck by waymer. You know this story, 144 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: I do. Kit Cat was a beloved neighborhood cat lived 145 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: at a local corner market in San Francisco's Mission District. 146 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: He had the nickname the Mayor of Sixteenth Street, and 147 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: he would actively visit all the local businesses in return 148 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: for treats. In twenty twenty, he was listed by s 149 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: F Gate as one of San Francisco's favorite shop caps. 150 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: We call them cats. 151 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: So what happened? There's multiple versions of the story. Weimo 152 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: said that the cat darted under the car as it 153 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: was pulling out. Multiple witnesses allege that they saw KitKat 154 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: underneath the car as the car started moving and people 155 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: tried to stop the car. In fact, here's a quote 156 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: from the owner of the shop, Mike Zaidan, where KitKat lived. 157 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: This lady said there was no one to yet out 158 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: in the car, no driver. They were touching the car 159 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: hoping it wouldn't move and it just ran him over. 160 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: Unbelievable. 161 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: Can you imagine that beating beating on a car. 162 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: That is uncanny, right, that's really uncanny. Valley. 163 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: Here's what a witness said, So spooky. If it wasn't 164 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: a weymo, if it was a person driving the car, 165 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: they could have stopped. 166 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: Of course, this is horror. This is this is this 167 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: is a Yeah, that's what I'm going to say. It's 168 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: really spooky, and imagine it's something else. 169 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean, well, that's except interestingly, and we're going to 170 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: get onto this. Yeah, there actually no reports that Weimo 171 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: has ever killed anyone. You can't say the same for 172 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: Tesla's full self driving mode, though. There's been a growing 173 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: memorial for KitKat outside the bodega, and part of what 174 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: is really interesting to me here is there is actually 175 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: back and forth at the memorial as to how to 176 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: interpret this story. I'm going to get onto that too. 177 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: But let's start with the people who basically using this 178 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: as a moment to say enough, as in us treating 179 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: this as kind of a referendum on where the San 180 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: Francisco should have these self. 181 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: Driving cars because of the loss of a cat. 182 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's what a local bar owner said, quote 183 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: KitKat was taken by technology that none of us asked 184 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: for and none of us consented to. And in fact, 185 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: Survey USA did a news poll fifty eight percent of 186 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: Californians don't want self driving cars in their neighborhoods. 187 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: Interesting. 188 00:09:59,080 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: That surprised me a little bit. 189 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: That's that feels high. 190 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: Jackie Fielder, who's a San Francisco City supervisor, is planning 191 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: to introduce legislation that would allow counties to decide whether 192 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: or not they'll permit the operation of autonomous vehicles. 193 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: Sort of be in a county by county basis. 194 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't know how far 195 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 1: this will go, whether it has legs. But it is interesting, 196 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: Like a cat gets killed, people are beating on the 197 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: windows their minds. People wake up and think this is 198 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: actually pretty weird. Do we really want this? 199 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: I don't think I agree with weymo no existing. I 200 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: don't why do we need autonomous vehicles? 201 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. Cheaper human drivers, more labors placed, 202 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: more money for corporation. 203 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: There go, and like doesn't seem very safe to me. 204 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: Well, a twenty twenty four peer of view'd study says 205 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: that you're wrong. Oh, human driven vehicles apparently crash five 206 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: times more than weymo's. Our producers actually pulled city data 207 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: and it turns out human drivers killed forty three people 208 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: in San Francisco last year and zero were killed by weymo's. 209 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: The Mayor of San Francisco actually went on Pivot to 210 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: defend Waymo's during the interview. Interesting, and all of this 211 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: comes at a time, by the way, when weimo is 212 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: actually expanding deeper into the Bay Area, all the way 213 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: into San Jose Angels and last week, I think for 214 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: the first time, they were all out on the freeway. 215 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: It is interesting though, that this is not the first 216 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: time San Francisco has been roiled by a self driving 217 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: car accident. Remember the last one there was a division 218 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: of General Motors called Cruise, and a Cruz hit a 219 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: woman and similarly dragged her for twenty feet because it 220 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: didn't know what was going on. She actually survived, but 221 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: it was one of those other moments where a machine 222 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: that has clearly not recognized that something terribly is going 223 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: wrong is happening. In the aftermath of that, General Motors 224 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: paused their self driving taxi service after having invested more 225 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: than ten billion dollars. 226 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 227 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: So final thought on this from me is, you know, 228 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: who knows what will happen, But the world is taking 229 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: notice of kit Kat's death and the Weimo killing it, 230 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: and the debate about how much we want autonomous vehicles 231 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: and robots in our space, and this kind of made 232 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: me think of Blackfish. I remember was about the orca 233 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: and it kind of led to the end of Sea World. 234 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: It was still open, it is, but it's really that 235 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: they have to host I went to the conference for 236 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: investigative journalists which was hosted at SeaWorld because it was 237 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: the only conference center cheap enough. So it's very weird 238 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: to be there. But you know, Weimo is a much 239 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: more powerful company than the SeaWorld. But these moments where 240 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: our heartstring by animals being hurt can be monumental moments 241 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: of changing culture. So I think we should keep an 242 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: eye on this. 243 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: The kind of rule of thumb there is, don't hurt 244 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: an animal if you want your company to succeed. 245 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: That's right, Okay. 246 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: So I am taking us to a galaxy far far 247 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: away China. 248 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: China, Yes, my favorite place to talk about. 249 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: You recently talked to Joseph Cox about how ice Block 250 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: and other citizen apps were removed from app stores at 251 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 2: the request of the US government, as two Chinese LGBTQ 252 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 2: plus dating apps have now been removed from Apple and 253 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: Android stores at the request of the Chinese Communist Party, 254 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: which is something that I find extremely alarming. 255 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that that is alarming. And I mean you mentioned 256 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: that ice block story about you know how under pressure 257 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: from the US government, Apple and I guess Google, through 258 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: the Android store, we're pulling these ice monitoring apps. Actually, 259 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: I believe Apple sells more iPhones per year in China 260 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: than they do in the US, so correct, I guess. Unfortunately, 261 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: money talks, and if the Chinese government tell apples do 262 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: something just like here in the US they do, they'll do. 263 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 2: And that's that's what's happened. 264 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: But I understand why the US government wants to get 265 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: rid of ice apps. Why does the Chinese government want 266 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: to get rid of gay dating apps. 267 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's a good question because I was under the 268 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 2: impression that the public opinion on homosexuality in China was 269 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 2: actually getting more accepting, not less accepting. So I actually 270 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: looked into the trends and this this is what I found. 271 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: China decriminalized homosexuality in nineteen ninety seven. For context, US 272 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: and UK were decriminalizing homosexuality back in the nineteen sixties. Okay, 273 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: here's what's been going on recently. In the twenty twenties, 274 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: Shanghai Pride was actually shut down, and in twenty twenty one, 275 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: social media accounts for a dozen student led LGBTQ plus 276 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: organizations were actually banned. 277 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: Wow, this is really interesting. I wonder what was driving 278 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: What were the actual apps that were removed? 279 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: So one is actually called Bludha and the other app 280 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: is called Finka. Bluda is especially popular and has been 281 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: active since twenty twelve. By twenty twenty, the app had 282 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: forty nine million users and six million monthly active users. 283 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: Wow. Other other like use Grinder in China likewives No. 284 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: No, no, no no. Other LGBTQ plus dating apps have 285 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: already been targeted. Most were blocked from the Chinese marketplace 286 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: back in twenty twelve, and then in twenty twenty two, 287 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: Grinder was removed from Apple's Chinese store. 288 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: And can users still use the apps that I download 289 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: block or is it a usage block? 290 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: So? According to Wired, previously downloaded apps still appear to 291 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: be working, but the original apps are not discoverable in 292 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: the app store anymore. 293 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: And how did the Chinese government communicate to Apple they 294 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: wanted this to happen? 295 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 3: Do we know? So? 296 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 2: Apple actually said they were following an order from the 297 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: Cyberspace Administration of China, which is an incredible or you 298 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: can just imagine working for the Cyberspace Administration of China, say. 299 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: You think they might have bigger fish to fry, and 300 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: they prepare for will. 301 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 2: Never the biggest fish that they have to fry. 302 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: That's crazy. You know, I was really interested in the 303 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: ice Block story a few weeks ago because you know 304 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: that the right have been obsessed for a long time 305 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: about being deep platformed by technology companies. This was Elon 306 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: buying x Trump starting truth social But actually it seems 307 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: right now. I mean, at least from this examples that 308 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: ice Block being removed, these gay data apts being removed 309 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: in China. Have you put on the left to it 310 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: being hurt more by deplatforming by the tech companies. I 311 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: guess those in power are the ones to whom the 312 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: tech companies answers the people are to worry about the 313 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: deplatforms are the ones out of power. 314 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and that is clearly true. 315 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: But you don't see people on the left coming together 316 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: and saying, actually, although we disagree on the content, we 317 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: think that people on the right were right about the 318 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: power of these tech companies a deep platform. But what 319 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: about you, I mean, how do you see the wider 320 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: context of this story? 321 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think there is something worth noting, which is 322 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: that Apple has a long standing policy of denying government 323 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 2: requests for access to encrypted data. So the company says 324 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: they will never create a backdoor or master key to 325 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: any of their products or services. But they also seem 326 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: to fold commpletely when it comes to deplatforming apps from 327 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: their app store. 328 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: Yes, don't put too much trust in big tech exactly exactly. 329 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 2: After the break, tech bros want to build statues and 330 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: the FBI attempts to unmask the mysterious owner of Archive Today, 331 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: stay with. 332 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: Us and we're back. 333 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 2: Hello. 334 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: Hello. So sometimes friends send me links to articles in 335 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: publications that they don't subscribe to and that I don't 336 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: subscribe to. Using these internet archiving tools to get around. 337 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: Pay walls, it's how I read most things I know. 338 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: But I have and I have mixed feelings and being 339 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: in the business of publishing content. I probably more than 340 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: most feel it's important to pay publishers for content. On 341 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: the other hand, has become. 342 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 2: The norm and a way that we get a lot 343 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: of articles. 344 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: Well, that's true, and I mean certainly there's a bunch 345 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: of stories that I wouldn't have seen if people haven't 346 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: sent me these links to stories that are in paywalled publications. 347 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: And some of those stories, in fact, we've talked about 348 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: on the show. Now, the FBI wants to know who's 349 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: behind one of the most popular of these sites, Archive 350 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: dot is. 351 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: And what is archive dot is? 352 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: Archive is is an Internet archiving website. It's different from 353 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: the Wayback Machine, which is owned by the nonprofit organization 354 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: the Internet Archive. According to an FAQ page on archive 355 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: dot is, it's quote privately funded. There are no complex 356 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: finances behind it. And as I mentioned, it allows users 357 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: to archive articles and web pages bypass paywalls. And it's 358 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: one of several sites, including the Internet Archive, that is 359 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: saving government web pages and data sets that have been 360 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: removed or changed since Trump took office in January twenty 361 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: twenty five. 362 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: So do you know what the subpoene said? What is 363 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: the FBI trying to find out. 364 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: It seems like it's an attempt to unmask the person 365 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: behind the website and its sister websites like Archive dot 366 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: to day and Archive dot pH. 367 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 2: So does the Internet have any ideas about who could 368 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: be behind Archive today? 369 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: Well, the domain is registered to Dennis Petrov, but that's 370 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: likely an alias. 371 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 2: Real name. 372 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: There's a twenty twenty three blog post that did a 373 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: deep dive into who the owner might be, and there's 374 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: a quote on that blog saying it's a one person 375 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: labor of love operated by a Russian of considerable talent 376 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: and access to Europe. 377 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 2: I wonder if Dennis Petrov wrote that. 378 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: Or maybe Dennis Petrov is a KGP. 379 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 2: Agent, possibly passibly. So I guess my last question is like, 380 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: why is the FBI doing this? 381 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: Well, we don't know. It doesn't say why in the 382 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: subpoena and they haven't commented publicly. Ours Technica theorizes that 383 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: it could be a copyright infringement issue because the archive 384 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: doesn't have a policy to remove content that has copyright infringement. 385 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: That said, this is is the Trump administration's FBI. The 386 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Trump administration based on their AI policy and not tremendous 387 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: defenders of copyright. Yes, so it seems like it's something 388 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: else going on here. Some have speculated they may be 389 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: a political motivation because of the way sites like archive 390 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: dot I make it impossible to scrub Internet history. There's 391 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: also the Russian connection. 392 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: Russian connection, we just don't know. Speaking of Russia, it's 393 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: your frequent flyer. 394 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: If I have a Russian visa at my passport, which 395 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: always makes me freak out. 396 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: Oh I do too, I went many years ago. Do 397 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: you use flight apps? 398 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: I hate apps? 399 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 3: You really do. 400 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 2: Like you use WhatsApp, It's like it's your hero app, WhatsApp. 401 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: Text I don't have. I think I probably had a 402 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: couple of airline apps on my phone, but I really 403 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: I'm a mobile web browser, one of the last right. 404 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: That's for Instagram as well. Sometimes true. So have you 405 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: heard about Flighty before? 406 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: No? 407 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: So Flighty is this flight tracker that I read about 408 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: recently in the Wall Street Journal. I'm like, not a 409 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 2: huge frequent flyer, so I don't. I'm not like following 410 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 2: different flight paths and all that stuff that other people 411 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 2: who loved to fly follow. But I wanted people to 412 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: know about this in preparation for next week, which is 413 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: you know, the busiest time of year to travel. 414 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: Thank god for the government shutdown being over exactly. 415 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 2: So this flight app Flighty is so data rich that 416 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: people have said they get Flighty updates before the airlines 417 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 2: convey new information. 418 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: Wow. 419 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: And that's even their tagline, Flighty get delay alerts faster 420 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 2: than the airlines. 421 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: That's incredible. 422 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 2: You know who loves to use it? Pilots. 423 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: Wow, they get better information from flight than from when 424 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: they're you know, tragic. That doesn't surprise me. 425 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: I know, you're like at the gate and it's saying 426 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: it's delayed when it doesn't say it at the gate. 427 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: It's crazy. You know who else loves it? 428 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: The points guy, The points guy love you know what, 429 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: I actually download this. 430 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: You would like it because you know what, you like 431 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 2: the fact that it's before the airlines Google. 432 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: You like the exclusivity anyway, But how does it work? 433 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 2: So there's a guy named Ryan Jones, which is a 434 00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: real name. 435 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, Dennis Petrol, Well, Dennis Petrov. 436 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: Is the Ryan Jones of Russia. Is definitely what it is. 437 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: But he actually built this really popular weather app called Weatherline, 438 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: and then he started working on Flighty in the strangest 439 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: of places and airport Chili's Apple. 440 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: Like Jensen Huang starting in video at Denny's. 441 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: It's exactly like that. So what he did is he 442 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 2: brought in one hundred pilots to evaluate the data he had, 443 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 2: so he knew this is the best stuff from put 444 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: I can see you downloading this as I speak. He 445 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: spent two years this just to give you a sense 446 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: of like how much he really This wasn't just like 447 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 2: on a whim. He spent two years in beta working 448 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 2: out any data kinks, so by the time he launched 449 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen, there wouldn't be any issues. He also 450 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: asked his social media followers what they would want in 451 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: a flight tracking app, and you know what they said, 452 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: clean design, nice and they won an Apple Design Award, 453 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: which was one of Jones's initial goals when he was 454 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: laying out the app at Chili's. 455 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. 456 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: So Flighty pays for both private and public flight data 457 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: from around the world in order to stay up to date. 458 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: This data can include things like the number of hours 459 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: lost to delays, the make and model of your plane, 460 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: which you know a lot of people are interested in 461 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: when it flew for the first time, whether you have 462 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: flown on it before, and if your plane has a name. 463 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: This is actually my dream come true. 464 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: Like the thing is, you're sick enough to want to 465 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 2: know all this stuff about your plane. 466 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: I am, in fact, sometimes I google the tail numbers 467 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: of planes all the time, not even private. But also 468 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: you can find out, especially if you're flying outside of 469 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: the US or outside of like Western Europe and you're 470 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: in like a you know, another country, you can find 471 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: out which major airline owned your plane. 472 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: Before before it became a second hand exlightly dumpster. 473 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: So I do like that kind of stuff. I will 474 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: download flight toy. We've talked about memory a couple of 475 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: times in this episode kit Kat's memorial. Yes, the Internet archive. 476 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: So for my final story, I couldn't resist headline in Bloomberg, 477 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: which was America's tech right is obsessed with building giant 478 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: statues and. 479 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: Who is the tech right? 480 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: Peter Teel and most rich people. But there's one guy 481 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: called Ross Calvin who runs a mining company and it's 482 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: so good and he wants to build a statue of 483 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: Prometheus on Alcatraz. You won't know how high he wants 484 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: a statue to be high four hundred and fifty feet. 485 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: That's humorious, an enormous, enormous statue. Prometheus, of course, was 486 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: the Greek god who gave men technology against the will 487 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: of the gods, and he's seen as an embodiment of 488 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: the West's greatest traits. 489 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: At first, I think you're healing about Ross Calvin. Then 490 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, no, he's talking about Prometheus. 491 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: There are some other tech bros who want monuments. Mo Mahmood, 492 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: the founder of a startup called More Monuments. I wonder 493 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: if there's a lot of money more Monuments. He wants 494 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: to build a statue of George Washington. Guess how high? 495 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: Tell me six hundred and fifty feet. 496 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 2: That's like a skyscraper. 497 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg created a tiny, tiny, tiny statue of his wife. 498 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: You know how small? Seven feet? 499 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 2: I guess that's true. 500 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: You wanted to quote bring back the Roman tradition of 501 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: making sculptures of your wife. 502 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: People are crazy. 503 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: Joe Lonsdale, a co founder of Pallantier, commissioned a neoclassical 504 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: bust of none other than Barry Wise. 505 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: You're kidding, kidding? Is that real? 506 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: That's real? Lonsdale, like the President is a huge fan 507 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: of the neoclassical style. 508 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: This is very euro of Lonsdale. Yeah, it's very euro 509 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: and it's also very trump. 510 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: You know which great Europeans loved neoclassical architecture, which Benito Muslini, 511 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler. 512 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 513 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg has a quote from the author Erica Doss, who 514 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: wrote a book called Memorial Memorial Mania. 515 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 2: Dedicating memorial had she dedicating your life to writing about memorials, but. 516 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: She said, quote, it's right out of the fascist playbook 517 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: name and autocracy that doesn't have a neoclassical obsession. And 518 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: she pointed out that this affinity for classical design calls 519 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: back to the Roman and Greek empires, who promoted societies 520 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: with strong perception of triumphant masculinity. 521 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: You know, monuments and statues show what a person or 522 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: country really values. If America the tech writer are exclusively 523 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: pushing European style monuments with Greek gods and goddess's triumphant, like, 524 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 2: what does that tell you about their values? 525 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: You know, at a time of new monuments being built 526 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: by and funded by tech overlords. I mean, in one sense, 527 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of a silly story, but on the other hand. 528 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 2: Its consequence real consequence, I think. 529 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: Do you know the poem Ossi Mandius no Osi Mandias 530 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: was a poem that I liked by Shelley, and it 531 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: was one that we had to read a lot at school. 532 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: I want to read you a little bit of it, please, 533 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: And on the pedestal these words appear. My name is 534 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: Ossie Mandius, king of Kings. Look on my works, mighty 535 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: and despair. Nothing beside remains round the decay of that 536 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: colossal wreck, boundless and bare, the lone and level sand 537 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: stretch far away. This is a head of a statue, 538 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: just in the desert, by itself, that to me says 539 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: it all. This, this desire for immortality to self memorials great. 540 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: It's tragic, and it ends with junk in an empty desert. 541 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: Ozzie, I have a feeling that you don't follow something 542 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 2: that I follow very closely. Also, the escapades of one 543 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 2: miss Kim Kardashian. 544 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: Well, I follow them when I see them on the daily, 545 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: of course. And my wife wis the Hulu Shao. So 546 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: I'm a she did Kim is part of my life. Okay. 547 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 2: So it's not like you're completely kim agnostic. 548 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm not kim agnostive. I've also not a huge Kim 549 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: stan Well. 550 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 2: So you probably miss this, which is that Kim recently did. 551 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: Have you ever seen these Vanity Fair Lie Detector tests. 552 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: It's like a content piece that they do. That's fun. 553 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: It's a celebrity video. 554 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically them doing a polygraph. Oh wow, Okay, 555 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: And she was doing it for her new show All's Fair, 556 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: which I watch. And when I saw this video, I 557 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 2: knew I had to bring it to Chat and Me 558 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: because during her lie detector test that she did through 559 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: Vanity Fairs Lie Detector Test content feature, Kim admitted to 560 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: co star Tiana Taylor that she uses chat GPT. 561 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 3: Do you consider chat gpt to be a friend? 562 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: No? 563 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 3: I use it for legal advice. 564 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 4: So when I am needing to know the answer to 565 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 4: a question, I'll take a picture and snap it and 566 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 4: like put it in there. 567 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: That wasn't the answer I was expecting the question, do 568 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: you can see chatchibts be a friend? I seem to 569 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: remember that Kim that she said no, No, Why would 570 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: you ask me that I don't have any friends. I'm 571 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: the most famous woman in the world. 572 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 4: I know. 573 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: She was trained to be a lawyer, and of course 574 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: her father famously was OJ's lawyer. Yes, but I'm curious 575 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: to hear about Kim's thoughts on Chat's legal advice. 576 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:23,479 Speaker 4: They're always wrong. It has made me fail test all 577 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 4: the time. And then I'll get mad and I'll like 578 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 4: yell at him, be like you made me fail? 579 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: Why did you do that? Technically? And it will consider 580 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 3: it refree. Yeah, so you're consider it refriend. 581 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 4: It's just no, I don't consider it a friend. 582 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 3: So she's a frend of me, Yes, a fun of me. 583 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 2: It's important to know that Kim is actually trying to 584 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 2: become a real lawyer. She did a four year law 585 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: office apprenticeship, and she passed the Baby Bar exam after 586 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: her fourth try, and she recently did take the California 587 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: Bar Exam. 588 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: Did she pause? 589 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: No, But that's also not Chatchebt's fault. She's blaming that 590 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: on psychics. Actually, Kim does go on to say that 591 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 2: Chat tells her that she should believe in herself. 592 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 4: Then I will talk to it and say, hey, you're 593 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 4: going to make me fail. How does like that make 594 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 4: you feel that you need to really know these answers? 595 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 4: I'm coming to you and then it'll stay back to me. 596 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 4: This is just teaching you to trust your own instincts. 597 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 3: You knew the answer, clock, so technically you a Chat 598 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: GPT are friends just toxic friends? 599 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: On this scene. 600 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: Because I think she wanted to get back to the 601 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 2: original question, which is are you and Chat GBT? 602 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 4: I like it. 603 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: This is hard heartening, Jon. You don't no matter what 604 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: they say, you don't get derailed from your train of thought. 605 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 2: That's exactly right, you know. 606 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: I do think one of the I like Kim by 607 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: the way, but entertained about, was that she was saying 608 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: to Chat you made me fail. I'm not sure that's 609 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: quite fair. On Chat. I think maybe she fails. She'd 610 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: have time to study. 611 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: She studies a lot. 612 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: I think it's really hard. I think it's really hard. 613 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: This story got me thinking Kim isn't the only person 614 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: asking chatchipt for helpful legal Highly doubt she is. I 615 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: actually asked Chat for some help with legal problems the 616 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: other day, and I was I was very persuaded by 617 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: the answer. But then when I spoke to my real lawyer, 618 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't need you anymore. You do, but beyond my lawyer. 619 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: I read a CNBC article the other day about a 620 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: divorced lawyer who said more and more young people are 621 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: using chat ChiPT for legal advice, which, of course she said, 622 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: it's a bad idea, but I am fascinated by this topic. 623 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: In the meantime, listeners, we want to hear from you. 624 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: So earlier this year I asked if anyone has used 625 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: chat GPT to write their wedding vows and I'm still 626 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 2: waiting to hear that story. Or maybe you asked chat 627 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: how to keep the spark alive in your relationship, So 628 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: tell me what chat might say for that. We want 629 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: to hear from you. 630 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 1: Please send a voice memo to tech Stuff podcast at 631 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. We'll give you a T shirt in return. 632 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 2: That's it for this week for tech Stuff. 633 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm Kara Price and I'm oz Va Looshin. This episode 634 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: was produced by Eliza Dennis Tyler Hill and Melissa Slaughter. 635 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: It was executive produced by me Kara Price, Julian Nutta, 636 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: and Kate Osborne for Kaleidoscope and Katrina Norvel for iHeart Podcasts. 637 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: The engineer is Beheth Fraser and Jack Insley Mix this episode. 638 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: Kyle Murdock wrote out theme song. Please rate, review and 639 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: reach out to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail 640 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: dot com. We want to hear from you.