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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube

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Speaker 1: here in Washington.

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Speaker 2: Of course, involvement captivated by the first days in office

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Speaker 2: of Donald Trump as he begins his second go at

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Speaker 2: the presidency, and he has wasted no time executive ordering,

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Speaker 2: using the office of the President to do everything he can.

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Speaker 2: You will, not unilaterally, but for all the stuff that

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Speaker 2: comes next, he's going to need the cooperation of Congress,

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Speaker 2: specifically as we've discussed frequently on this program when it

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Speaker 2: comes to tax policy. Hence multiple meetings about the legislative

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Speaker 2: way forward at the White House this week.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and a big one on salt. We talk about

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Speaker 3: salt every day here because we're Bloomberg. And there's a

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Speaker 3: question about how much you can be fit into this

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Speaker 3: package to extend the twenty seventeen tax cuts, because that's

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Speaker 3: going to compete with no taxes on tips over time.

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Speaker 4: All the other proposals that emerged on the campaign trail.

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Speaker 3: But this is a big one, and we know that

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Speaker 3: Republicans from states like New York, particularly those who won

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Speaker 3: in Biden districts, have an enormous amount of inflatable I

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Speaker 3: should have said that probably have an enormous amount of

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Speaker 3: influence over this process right now, because every vote will

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Speaker 3: be needed to make it happen.

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Speaker 2: Yes, hence why you saw not just Republican leadership at

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Speaker 2: the White House earlier this week, but yesterday three key

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Speaker 2: Republican moderates, one of whom is from the aforementioned state

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Speaker 2: of New York, and he's joining us now live from

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Speaker 2: Capitol Hill.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, let's go to Mike Lawler, Republican from New York,

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Speaker 3: seventeenth Congressman.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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Speaker 3: It's a pleasure to have you live from Capitol Hill

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Speaker 3: because I know it's a busy time right now, to

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Speaker 3: the extent that you can bring us in the room.

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Speaker 3: The question of how high to raise the cap I'm

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Speaker 3: sure is something you discussed with the President.

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Speaker 4: How did he respond?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 6: Well, first, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 7: I'm not going to get into the specifics of the

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Speaker 7: conversation out of respect for the President, but I will say,

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Speaker 7: obviously it was a very productive meeting with the President,

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Speaker 7: great opportunity for myself, Brian Fitzpatrick, Don Bacon, the three

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Speaker 7: of us who won districts that Kamala Harris won juxtaposed

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Speaker 7: to four years ago, there were eighteen districts that Republicans

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Speaker 7: won that Joe Biden won in twenty twenty two. So

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Speaker 7: you know, obviously the country has moved right word, These

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Speaker 7: districts have moved right word. But there's three of us

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Speaker 7: left in Harris districts, and so it was a good

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Speaker 7: opportunity to sit down with the President. Salt did come up,

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Speaker 7: of course, you know, and the President reaffirmed his support

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Speaker 7: for lifting the cap. We talked extensively about it down

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Speaker 7: at mar A Lago just ten days ago with a

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Speaker 7: group of us from California, New York, and New Jersey.

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Speaker 7: But this is I mean, I've been very clear on

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Speaker 7: this issue. If we do nothing, if we pass no

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Speaker 7: tax bill, salt comes back unlimited, which I would support.

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Speaker 7: But the problem is that it would be associated with

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Speaker 7: the largest tax increase in American history.

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Speaker 6: The Alternative minimum.

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Speaker 7: Tax would come back, which would have a detrimental impact

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Speaker 7: on New York. So you know, we have to negotiate

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Speaker 7: in good faith. It's incumbent on everybody to do that.

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Speaker 7: We are working through the numbers right now with the

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Speaker 7: Ways and Means Committee to come up with a number

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Speaker 7: that actually will provide real tax relief to middle class families.

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Speaker 7: This is not an issue of the uber wealthy or rich.

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Speaker 7: This is not an issue of those awful blue states.

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Speaker 7: This is an issue of fairness. It's an issue of

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Speaker 7: double taxation and providing real tax relief to working families.

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Speaker 2: Well, when you say working families, we've had sources telling

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Speaker 2: Bloomber that in a listening session yesterday, Congressman Fitzpatrick actually

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Speaker 2: suggested that he's worried about the Republican Party having a

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Speaker 2: disconnect with what is increasingly its base versus those who

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Speaker 2: might be able to benefit from something like an elevated

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Speaker 2: salt cap. Congressman, were you part of that. What have

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Speaker 2: your conversations been with some of your colleagues, not from

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Speaker 2: these blue higher tax states, about the way forward on this.

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Speaker 7: Well, I'll let Brian speak for himself, and I'm not

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Speaker 7: going to discuss what occurred in conference, but i will say, obviously,

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Speaker 7: when you look at the coalition that President Trump built,

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Speaker 7: It was comprised of working class families, It was comprised

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Speaker 7: of union workers, It was comprised of folks who, day in,

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Speaker 7: day out, are working to put food on the table,

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Speaker 7: to pay their mortgage, to pay their car loans, etc.

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Speaker 7: So we have a responsibility as we work through this

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Speaker 7: tax bill to focus on the issue of affordability, to

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Speaker 7: focus on the issue of tax relief from middle class

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Speaker 7: and working class families. And that is really what all

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Speaker 7: of us are are focused on. Obviously, you know, when

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Speaker 7: you look at historically some of the policies that have

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Speaker 7: been pushed by some Republicans within the conference, you know

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Speaker 7: that may be at juxtaposition with where the party is

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Speaker 7: today and certainly where our bases and certainly where the

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Speaker 7: coalition that Donald Trump put together is. And so I

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Speaker 7: think a key part of this is obviously what the

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Speaker 7: President wants. He's talking about no tax on tips, He's

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Speaker 7: talking about lifting the cap on salt. That is certainly,

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Speaker 7: you know, a little bit different than obviously where the

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Speaker 7: party was in twenty seventeen when the Tax Cuts in

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Speaker 7: Jobs Act.

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Speaker 3: Passed, right, and of course your legislation, we could remind

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Speaker 3: our audience calls to lift a cap on salt to

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Speaker 3: one hundred thousand dollars for single filers two hundred thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars for married couples. Your Salts Fairness and Marriage Penalty

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Speaker 3: Elimination Act. We want to have a broader conversation about taxes, Congressman.

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Speaker 3: But while we're on the matter of salts, you've said

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Speaker 3: some of your fellow Republican lawmakers are quote reflexively opposed

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Speaker 3: because they think they're subsidizing bad blue state policies.

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Speaker 4: You referred to that a second ago. Why are they wrong?

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Speaker 7: Well, first of all, New York is a donor state.

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Speaker 7: We send more in tax revenue to the federal government

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Speaker 7: than we get back. I don't disagree about the disastrous

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Speaker 7: leadership in New York or California under Kathy Hochel and

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Speaker 7: Gavin Newsom. And in fact, the policies in New York

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Speaker 7: do need to change. The tax burden does need to

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Speaker 7: come down, The overall cost of living and cost of

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Speaker 7: doing business does need to come down, and I've long

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Speaker 7: advocated for that. But folks shouldn't be penalized for living

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Speaker 7: in these states.

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Speaker 6: And the fact is there are red.

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Speaker 7: States in which they get more money from the federal

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Speaker 7: government than tax revenue they send.

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Speaker 6: To the federal government.

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Speaker 7: So you know, if we want to get into the

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Speaker 7: whole argument about who's subsidizing who, we can do that,

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Speaker 7: I don't find that overly productive.

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Speaker 6: I think the bottom.

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Speaker 7: Line here is we want to have a tax bill

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Speaker 7: that provides broad based relief. If you look at where

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Speaker 7: people are today from twenty seventeen and the median household,

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Speaker 7: the fact is that in twenty nine of fifty states

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Speaker 7: they blow through this ten thousand dollars salt cap with

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Speaker 7: their tax burden, property taxes, income taxes, etc.

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Speaker 6: So, you know, what may have made.

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Speaker 7: Sense to some of my colleagues back in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 7: I think in some of these states, they're starting to

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Speaker 7: see that ten thousand dollars cap is woefully insufficient and

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Speaker 7: really does cause harm to taxpayers.

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Speaker 6: So look, we're working through that.

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Speaker 7: I have confidence, certainly in my conversations with the President

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Speaker 7: that we are going to get a tax deal done

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Speaker 7: that does lift the cap on salt and really provides

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Speaker 7: real tax relief to middle class families.

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Speaker 2: Well, Congressman, I'm sure you well know. The President addressed

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Speaker 2: the World Economic Forum at Davos earlier today, yourself virtually

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Speaker 2: joined a panel related to NATO over the course of

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Speaker 2: Davos this year, And I do wonder what you make

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Speaker 2: of his remarks specifically and as we heard him or

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Speaker 2: at least saw him post on True Social yesterday about

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Speaker 2: trying to bring Russia to the negotiating table to end

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Speaker 2: the war in Ukraine. How are you viewing this through

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Speaker 2: your lenses to whether or not Russia is ready for that,

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Speaker 2: and whether or not Ukraine is going to be able

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Speaker 2: to negotiate good terms with Russia at this point.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think you know, President Trump is absolutely

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Speaker 7: correct to start to apply pressure to Vladimir Putin to

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Speaker 7: come to the table and in this war. I've been

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Speaker 7: very clear in my support for Ukraine. I do believe Russia, China, Iran,

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Speaker 7: and North Korea are engaged in an holy alliance that

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Speaker 7: seeks to undermine and destabilize the United States, Israel, Europe

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Speaker 7: in the free world. But we cannot have endless conflict.

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Speaker 7: And I think President Trump is beginning that negotiation, extending

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Speaker 7: out a hand to come meet him and have a

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Speaker 7: conversation about how we bring this to a close. We

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Speaker 7: have spent hundreds of billions of dollars, supporting our allies,

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Speaker 7: supporting Ukraine, supporting NATO in this effort. But when you see,

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Speaker 7: for instance, Europe purchasing gas from Russia and helping fund

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Speaker 7: Russia's invasion of Ukraine at the same time while they

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Speaker 7: are trying to guard against it, you see some of

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Speaker 7: the foolishness that has been going on. The Biden administration

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Speaker 7: was extremely weak. The fact that Joe Biden did not

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Speaker 7: speak to Vladimir Putin in any meaningful way over the

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Speaker 7: last three years contributed to allowing this conflict to continue uninterrupted.

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Speaker 7: So there's a lot of work ahead, not just with

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Speaker 7: respect to the Russia Ukraine conflict, but obviously the Middle

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Speaker 7: East and with respect to China and the Indo Pacific.

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Speaker 7: President Trump is here now to reassert America's role in

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Speaker 7: the world and re establish peace through strength and reverse

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Speaker 7: many of the policies of the Biden administration that created

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Speaker 7: this tinderbox that we find ourselves in. And that was

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Speaker 7: in part what I discussed last night overnight with Jony

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Speaker 7: Ernst and Ambassador Grennell when we spoke before the conference

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Speaker 7: in Davos.

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Speaker 2: All Right, Congressman, we appreciate you joining us in the Aftermath.

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Speaker 2: That's Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York here on

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Speaker 2: Balance of Power Live from Capitol Hill.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn

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Speaker 1: on Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven.

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Speaker 2: Thirty as we were discussing with the Congressman. Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: obviously spoke at Davos earlier today, where he talked about

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Speaker 2: a wide variety of subjects, including the speed with which

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Speaker 2: he has been moving since taking office on Monday.

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Speaker 8: My administration is acting with unprecedented speed to fix the

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Speaker 8: disasters we've inherited from a totally inept group of people,

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Speaker 8: and to solve every single crisis facing our country. This

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Speaker 8: begins with confronting the economic chaos caused by the failed

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Speaker 8: policies of the last administration.

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Speaker 2: The other thing he wants to confront economically, according to

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Speaker 2: his remarks, is what he says is the trade deficit

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Speaker 2: with the EU, that something should be done about that.

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Speaker 2: That he wants to have a fair relationship with China.

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Speaker 2: All of this as he was talking once again about

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Speaker 2: tariffs today with those gathered at Davos, and of course

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Speaker 2: the CEOs that were questioning him. So for more on this,

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Speaker 2: we turned to Sarah Bianki. She's former deputy US Trade

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Speaker 2: Representative during the Biden administration, now senior managing director and

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Speaker 2: chief strategist of International Political Affairs and Public Policy at

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Speaker 2: Evercore ISI. Sarah, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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Speaker 2: As we just heard the President there talk about how

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Speaker 2: he's doing a lot of things very quickly. Enacting new

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Speaker 2: tariffs is actually not one of them, even as he

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Speaker 2: suggests maybe we're looking at a deadline here of February

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Speaker 2: first for Mexico, Canada and China. But how are you

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Speaker 2: viewing the way in which he, if not slow walking,

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Speaker 2: does seem to be at least thinking through and calibrating

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Speaker 2: the way in which these levees are implemented.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, it's a good point.

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Speaker 5: He put out a framework on Monday, but that was

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Speaker 5: a far cry from some of the detailed policies that

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Speaker 5: he had spoken about. He had said he was going

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Speaker 5: to do twenty five percent a tariff on Canada and

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Speaker 5: Mexico on inauguration day. I think what's going on is

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Speaker 5: that his team on this issue does have some divisions.

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Speaker 9: That's how he likes it.

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Speaker 5: On trade, he has a very very pro tariff part

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Speaker 5: of the community, with the USTR nominee and others, but

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Speaker 5: also some who are less comfortable, and I think he

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Speaker 5: does understand actually, this economy is in pretty good shape,

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Speaker 5: and he does have some anxiety in the markets, particularly

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Speaker 5: in the bond market, about inflation and about tariff. So

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Speaker 5: I think they're trying to calibrate. I don't put much

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Speaker 5: stock into the February first deadline, but I do believe

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Speaker 5: that Donald Trump always comes back to tariffs, and our

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Speaker 5: projection is that with due time, we will get tariffs,

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Speaker 5: not only in China but in other parts of the world.

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Speaker 4: Sarah, it's good to have you.

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Speaker 3: What did you make of the tone of this conversation,

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Speaker 3: dear leader, The way that Donald Trump was showered with

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Speaker 3: compliments everyone there, the elite being so deferential to the president,

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Speaker 3: not terribly concerned with even kind of insulted Brian moynihan, Well,

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Speaker 3: he was at it, who thanked him for his service.

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Speaker 3: They talked about his family, what does it tell us

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Speaker 3: about the influence that Donald Trump has.

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Speaker 4: Over the titans of this industry finance.

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Speaker 9: Well, for right.

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Speaker 5: Now, Donald Trump is at the height of his power,

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Speaker 5: and I think a lot of leaders coming in understand

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Speaker 5: that this is a very, very transactional president and that

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Speaker 5: working with him when possible has a big advantages. We

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Speaker 5: could Ultimately we'll start to see that splinter a little bit. Again,

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Speaker 5: we are in inauguration week that is again the height

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Speaker 5: usually of support.

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Speaker 9: And look, there's some things that Trump wants to.

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Speaker 5: Do that they welcome, an easier m and a environment,

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Speaker 5: you know, some things on digital taxes, so I think

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Speaker 5: they're willing to kind of take some of the side

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Speaker 5: flights that come along with that. But ultimately, as we

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Speaker 5: get into the agenda, the markets are worried about deficits.

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Speaker 5: They're worried about these tariffs. Business leaders are too, So

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Speaker 5: the governing, the hard part is still really yet to come.

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Speaker 2: Well, and when we consider the deficit, and we were

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Speaker 2: just having a conversation about looming tax cuts with Republican

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Speaker 2: Congressman Mike Laller, which could help to balloon the deficit

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Speaker 2: if there's not offsets to it. Donald Trump also used

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Speaker 2: things like tariffs as not just a way to recalibrate

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Speaker 2: trade relationships that the US has with other countries, but

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Speaker 2: also as a way to raise revenue. And I wonder, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: you can just give us a reality check as he's

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Speaker 2: outing this external revenue service as to what that revenue

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Speaker 2: would actually look like with the kind of figures that

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Speaker 2: he has floated to this point.

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Speaker 5: Well, the challenge that he has is that a number

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Speaker 5: of tax cuts in you all I heard were just

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Speaker 5: talking about salt, and that's even more money.

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Speaker 9: Uh.

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Speaker 5: And they're not that interested in spending cuts. So there's

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Speaker 5: a real uh, you know, the hard facts of numbers

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Speaker 5: are a real challenge for this president. And the other

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Speaker 5: challenge that they have is lots of the tariff stuff

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Speaker 5: they can do through executive order, but our Congressional Budget

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Speaker 5: Office and our budgeteers don't count that as revenue when

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Speaker 5: it's done that way, and so they're trying to find

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Speaker 5: a way to get credit for that that money. You know,

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Speaker 5: I don't put a ton of of of stock in it.

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Speaker 5: I think, Look, they're they're right in the sense that

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Speaker 5: if they do do more teriffs, more revenue will come in.

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Speaker 9: The death sit will go down who collects it is really.

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Speaker 5: Just kind of a Washington accounting gimmick, really and signed

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Speaker 5: to show.

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Speaker 9: But but but it does raise revenue.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 5: And I don't think Congress is particularly interested in the tariffs,

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Speaker 5: so I think he's trying to square that circle. Well.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because Scott Bessett would tell you can't have

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Speaker 3: one without the other. It's the combined effect, right of

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Speaker 3: the tax cuts and tariff policy that they say will

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Speaker 3: in fact raise enough revenue to lower the deficit. Are

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Speaker 3: you suggesting that there there might be some sunlight between

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Speaker 3: the two.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump, the stroke of a pen gets the terriffs.

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Speaker 3: This tax debate is going to be tortured as we

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Speaker 3: make our way further into the year. Could we be

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Speaker 3: in a world where where you've got tariffs but no

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Speaker 3: tax cuts.

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Speaker 5: I think ultimately they're going to get a tax bill done.

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Speaker 5: It's just really complicated given the deficit situation that we're in.

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Speaker 5: And despite that, the Secretary of Treasury nominee uh, you know,

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Speaker 5: claim that we can reduce the deficit. There aren't any

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Speaker 5: really hard plans And the problem is the numbers get sticky.

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Speaker 5: Most of the death most of the deficit and government

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Speaker 5: spending comes from social Security, Medicare, interest we pay on

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Speaker 5: the debt, and uh, if you don't want to touch those,

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Speaker 5: very very challenging. So some of the things that he's

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Speaker 5: doing with DOJE and other issues are welcome initiatives, but

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Speaker 5: I don't see any plan right now that does They're

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Speaker 5: lucky if they keep the death cit even I expect

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Speaker 5: the more like the scenario.

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Speaker 9: Is that it goes up.

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Speaker 6: Sarah.

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Speaker 2: Something else we heard the President talking about today's the

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Speaker 2: ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine. This is after he

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Speaker 2: took to True Social yesterday saying that Putin needs to

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Speaker 2: come to the negotiating table. It can be done the

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Speaker 2: easy way or the hard way, and he outlined the

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Speaker 2: hard way as being greater sanctions but also taxes and

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Speaker 2: tariffs on Russian imports or exports being imported into the

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Speaker 2: United States. To what extent is that actual usable leverage

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Speaker 2: against Russia, given the relatively small amount that we actually

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Speaker 2: do import from the country, given the ongoing war, and

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Speaker 2: the fact that there are already or sanctions which were

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Speaker 2: tightened just at the very tail end of the Biden administration.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that you've outlined it exactly correctly. The

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Speaker 5: iminustration has taken a lot of action too. Took a

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Speaker 5: lot of action to Titan sanctions. Potentially one could do

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Speaker 5: more that is going to be more impactful on Russia

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Speaker 5: than any tariff on an import into the United States, which,

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Speaker 5: as you noted, is a.

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Speaker 9: Small part of the challenge.

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Speaker 5: But look, I think it is I'm glad to see

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Speaker 5: Trump uh talking tough on Russia. I think some of

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Speaker 5: us were concerned that given of the pressure that he

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Speaker 5: feels to sort of get a mission accomplished with on

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Speaker 5: this ongoing geopolitical issue, as as well as many others.

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Speaker 5: You know, definitely was hired in part to address these

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Speaker 5: quote forever wars. You know, I think some were concerned

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Speaker 5: that he was going to cut a deal quite quickly

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Speaker 5: that that might not be advantageous to Ukraine.

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Speaker 9: So we'll have to see where it all lands.

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Speaker 5: But I don't blame the President now for starting the

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Speaker 5: conversation by talking tough.

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Speaker 3: Sarah, It's always a pleasure to have you, former Deputy

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Speaker 3: US Trade Rep now senior managing director, chief strategist of

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Speaker 3: International political Affairs public Policy at Evercore is Si Sarah

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Speaker 3: Bianki with us once again on Bloomberg TV.

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Speaker 6: And Radio.

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Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington. I had

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Speaker 3: to stop down, which she said, it's still inauguration week.

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Speaker 3: It's the same week. It's only Thursday.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: almal Corkleay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 4: Balance of Power at the early edition.

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Speaker 3: We do have breaking news here, Kaylee, and it has

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Speaker 3: to do with Donald Trump's confirmations his nominee, specifically, in

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Speaker 3: this case, his nominee for Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth.

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Speaker 4: We've been counting the votes here.

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Speaker 3: It does appear, just to be straight up on this,

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Speaker 3: no matter who we talk to, Kaylee, Democrat or Republican,

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Speaker 3: they tend to think that he will be approved. He

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Speaker 3: will be confirmed as Defense Secretary. But we do now

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Speaker 3: know that there is a Republican vote that he has lost.

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Speaker 4: The Senator from Alaska is not on board, yep.

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Speaker 2: Senator Lisa Murkowski just putting out a statement on x

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Speaker 2: in which she speaks about her concerns of regarding mister Hegseeth.

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Speaker 2: She talks about how she is concerned about the message

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Speaker 2: that confirming Hegseth would send to women currently serving in

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Speaker 2: those inspiring to join. She also talks about character, noting

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Speaker 2: not just allegations of sexual assault and excess of drinking,

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Speaker 2: but behaviors. She says Hegseth has admitted to, including infidelity

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Speaker 2: on multiple occasions and a lack of which demonstrates to

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Speaker 2: her a lack of judgment that is unbecoming of someone

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Speaker 2: who would lead our armed forces. She says, above all,

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Speaker 2: I believe character is the defining trait required of the

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Speaker 2: Secretary of Defense and ends her statement saying I regret

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Speaker 2: I am unable to support mister Hegseth. That is one

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Speaker 2: Joe three knows he can get through because Jade Vance

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Speaker 2: would provide a tie breaking vote four nos, though.

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Speaker 3: He wouldn't be able to and we have a sense

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Speaker 3: that Susan Collins and Mitch McConnell may not be on board,

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Speaker 3: so that fourth vote will be critical. We've also learned

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Speaker 3: by the way that we're going to have a flurry

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Speaker 3: of confirmations next week. Pete Hegseth may not in the

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Speaker 3: end have had the most dramatic session. Remembering he did

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Speaker 3: not meet with Democrats, he knew he would likely not

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Speaker 3: get a single Democratic vote, and the members from.

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Speaker 4: The other party certainly assured him of that.

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Speaker 3: When you heard from Tim Kaine, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth

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Speaker 3: and others, yep.

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Speaker 2: And as you say, more fireworks to come next week,

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Speaker 2: but we're dealing with these headlines now. And joining us

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Speaker 2: for some live reaction from Capitol Hill is a member

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Speaker 2: of Congress who represents a district that has a large

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Speaker 2: military population. Congressman Jennifer McClellan of Virginia's fourth District of

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Speaker 2: the Democrat is joining us now here on Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 2: and radio. Congresswoman, thanks for being here. I do wonder

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Speaker 2: what you are hearing from your constituent, specifically the ones

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Speaker 2: who are going to have to report up through the

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Speaker 2: chain ultimately to the Secretary of Defense what they think

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Speaker 2: about mister Hegseth.

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Speaker 10: I am hearing a lot of women who are in

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Speaker 10: our armed forces that they are concerned first his comments

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Speaker 10: opposing women in combat, many of whom are decorated and

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Speaker 10: have acquitted themselves very well with his own sexual assault allegations.

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Speaker 10: There's a concern that it would halt or reverse progress

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Speaker 10: that we have made addressing sexual assault in the military

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Speaker 10: and creating an environment less hostile to women in the military.

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Speaker 10: But I'm also hearing concerns about his drinking and the

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Speaker 10: fact that you need to be sure that you have

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Speaker 10: someone who will decide whether we attack someone or who

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Speaker 10: could decide to what extent nuclear weapons could be used,

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Speaker 10: having the presence of mind and not being impaired, and

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Speaker 10: their concerns about mister Hexeth in all of those areas.

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Speaker 3: The senator congresswoman wrote about the message that it would send.

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Speaker 3: I remain concerned about the message confirming mister Hegseth sends

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Speaker 3: to women currently serving and those aspiring to join. And

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Speaker 3: that's the part that I want to ask you about

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Speaker 3: what that might mean in your view for recruitment, for

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Speaker 3: attracting new talent in a massive navy hub like Norfolk.

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Speaker 10: I would say, and I have been saying since he

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Speaker 10: was first announced, that his appointment would have a chilling

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00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 10: effect on attracting and retaining the best and the brightest

442
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 10: in our armed forces, women also minorities, and making sure

443
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 10: we have done a really good job making sure that

444
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 10: our armed forces reflect the diversity of the country that

445
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 10: they defend, and we've had challenges meeting some of our

446
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 10: recruitment goes for a wide variety of reasons, and mister

447
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 10: Hegseth would add to those problems if he were confirmed.

448
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: Well, so as you speak to the reflection of the

449
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: country the US military is defending. What do you make

450
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: of the unwind of DEI programs across the federal government

451
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: as of last night, but the Pentagon included.

452
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 10: I'm very concerned about it. I mean, these go so

453
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 10: far as to even to rescind a nineteen sixty five

454
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 10: executive order from President Johnson that applies to contractors federal

455
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 10: government contractors that includes contractors that serve our military, contractors

456
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 10: that build our warships, and it basically means now there's

457
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 10: nothing prohibiting them by executive order from engaging in discrimination

458
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 10: against employees simply for who they are. It's appalling and

459
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 10: undone so much progress that we have made over the

460
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 10: past sixty years.

461
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: Well, congresswomen, our viewers and listeners are going to get

462
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: a good sense here of how important your district is

463
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 3: and some of the issues that we're talking about as

464
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: Kaylee mentioned Virginia's fourth disc that DEI undoing if you will,

465
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 3: and we understand now according to reports that the administration

466
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: is actually asking federal.

467
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 4: Workers to rat each other out.

468
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: If there are DEI processes left in place, it's going

469
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: to end up with a lot of layoffs. You have

470
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 3: a lot of federal workers in the state of Virginia.

471
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 3: You also have a lot of veterans, and this could

472
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: impact some veterans programs as well with the undoing of DEI.

473
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: When you put that all together, what's the net effect?

474
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: How many people could lose their jobs?

475
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 10: Well, we have over two hundred thousand federal employees and

476
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 10: contractors and over one hundred thousand, over one hundred and

477
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 10: forty thousand veterans. It's already having an effect. The VA

478
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 10: hospital in my district had a meeting yesterday to talk

479
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 10: about how it was going to impact their ability to

480
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 10: provide services to veterans. They were about to open a

481
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 10: new VA hospital in Fredericksburg, Virginia, less than thirty minutes

482
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 10: away from my day strict. Now they're not sure they

483
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 10: can do that because they can't hire the staff to

484
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 10: staff it. We've seen VA hospitals and other states that

485
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 10: have rescinded employment offers to nurses. We already have a

486
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 10: nursing shortage. We are already struggling to meet the healthcare

487
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 10: needs of our veterans. This is going to make it worse.

488
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 10: The VA is concerned they're going to have to start

489
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 10: sending veterans to hospitals, in civilian hospitals in the region.

490
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 10: They are already struggling with nurses and provider shortages. This

491
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 10: is a mess, and this is not what the American

492
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 10: people voted for when they voted for Donald Trump. They

493
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 10: thought they were voting to reduce costs. Instead, he is

494
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 10: burdening our veterans, He is burning our soldiers, and he

495
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 10: is burdening our military families.

496
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: Well, we really appreciate your insight into these matters, Congressoman.

497
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: As we consider as well, where this administration is now

498
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: sending our soldiers with the deployment of troops to the

499
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: US border, do you see this as an appropriate use

500
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: of the mility Terry, considering he has declared an emergency.

501
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 10: Well, what we need to do and what Democrats were

502
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 10: ready to do with Republicans last Congress was pass an

503
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 10: immigration border security bill that invests in border patrol agents

504
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 10: and put them on the border so that our armed

505
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 10: forces can do the job they were trained for, and

506
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 10: that is to serve our needs both here in bases

507
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 10: but also overseas.

508
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: What are you concerned about as we consider the impact

509
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 3: in your district that changes to military policy would have

510
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 3: here when it comes to climate, when it comes to resources, shipbuilding, etc.

511
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: This is something that Donald Trump has talked about a

512
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 3: lot when it comes to the proposed.

513
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 4: Purchase of US steel.

514
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: Is that a conversation that you'll be part of considering

515
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: your district and your constituency on Capitol Hill?

516
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 10: Absolutely?

517
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 6: Absolutely.

518
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 10: I mean, first of all, a member of the Armed

519
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 10: Services Committee and the last Congress, when I went to

520
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 10: Norfolk Naval Station and asked their commanding officer what is

521
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 10: the number one thing that keeps you up at night?

522
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 10: She talked about the fact that when they have heavy rains,

523
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 10: not just increased storms and higher intensity storms, but heavy rains,

524
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 10: there is a street that bisects that naval station that floods,

525
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 10: and she can't get her people from one side to

526
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 10: the other. How is she going to be able to

527
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 10: deploy ships in an emergency or when they are deployed

528
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 10: if she can't get across the base because it's flooded.

529
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 10: And by rolling back all of the efforts that we

530
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 10: have made to address resiliency and climate action, particularly in

531
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 10: the Navy, in the Armed services, what the President is

532
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 10: doing is ignoring the impact that climate change has on

533
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 10: military readiness and on our soldier's ability to do their

534
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 10: job and frankly, their quality of life.

535
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: As we consider a climate change Congress women, of course,

536
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: we all have our eyes on the West coast with

537
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: fires still raging in the Los Angeles area. And I'm

538
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: sure you're well aware that there are colleagues of yours

539
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 2: in the House on the Republican side who are suggesting

540
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: any emergency aid for LA should be conditioned and that

541
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: it could be leveraged to get Democratic votes on other

542
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: matters like raising the debt ceiling for example. Where do

543
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: you come down on.

544
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 10: That this is a rubicon Republican should not cross. The

545
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 10: American people expect their government to solve problems and help people,

546
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 10: particularly when there is a natural disaster. There are people

547
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 10: in California that voted for mister Trump. There are people

548
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 10: in California that voted for Kamala Harris. There are people

549
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 10: in California that did not vote at all, but they

550
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 10: all expect their government to help them in an emergency.

551
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 10: And we have never conditioned in a natural disaster. And

552
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 10: there's so much misinformation that they're even using to justify

553
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 10: these conditions, but they're ignoring the fact that it is

554
00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 10: difficult to fight a fire and hurricane force wins. So

555
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 10: we need to make sure we're doing everything we can

556
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 10: in California and North Carolina and anywhere else to address

557
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 10: the needs of the American people, especially in a natural disaster.

558
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: Well, so how do you how do you work against

559
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: miss and disinformation, whether it's in Asheville and we heard

560
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: a lot about that when FEMA showed up following the hurricanes,

561
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 3: or now in California, where Donald Trump says Gavin Newsom

562
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 3: only has to turn a valve that he's refusing to

563
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: provide water to Los Angeles. A lot of people are

564
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: going to believe that Donald Trump's on his way there tomorrow.

565
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 10: Congresswoman, Well, I think we need to make sure that

566
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 10: all of us this is all hands on deck moment.

567
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 10: It's me as an elected official, it's you as a

568
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 10: member of the press, making sure we are calling out

569
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 10: this misinformation and that we are countering it. But in

570
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 10: every medium where people will receive their information, and so

571
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 10: that's what we need to make sure we are doubling

572
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 10: down and being more aggressive. Whether you get your information

573
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 10: from social media or your neighbor next door, we've got

574
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 10: to make sure that we're giving you the truth.

575
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: All right, Congressman, Well, we just have a minute left here.

576
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: But I do wonder as we look ahead to Monday,

577
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: in the Republican Conference meeting that will be happening in

578
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: Florida that Donald Trump will attend, is they're discussing their

579
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: legislative agenda border measures, energy measures, tax related measures they

580
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: would like to implement. Are they going to be able

581
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: to count on any Democratic votes for any of these things?

582
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: Could this be a bipartisan process?

583
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 10: Well, I'm gonna they have proven that even with a

584
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 10: five person majority, let alone a one person majority, they

585
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 10: are unable to do anything without Democrats because they fight

586
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 10: each other. Democrats stand ready to work together to meet

587
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 10: the needs of the American people and to put people

588
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 10: over politics. Republicans are going to have to come to

589
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 10: the table and do that. But we are not going

590
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 10: to a violate our values, and those values include making

591
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 10: sure we are centering people, that we are centering their

592
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 10: needs and helping them, that we are not pitting one

593
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 10: group of amer Americans against another, and that we are

594
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 10: protecting our democracy. So if they want bipartisan help in governing,

595
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 10: we stand ready to meet an easy the American people,

596
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 10: but they are going to have to come to us

597
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 10: and not just expect us to bend the knee and

598
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 10: to their will and violate our values.

599
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 5: All right.

600
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: Democratic Congressoman Jennifer McClellan of Virginia, thank you so much

601
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: for joining us here on Balance of Power as we

602
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: round out this early edition, where we've gotten some breaking

603
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: news on a few fronts, Joe one being the first

604
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: no vote in the Senate for Pete Hegseth's defense secretary,

605
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: Lisa Murkowski saying she cannot support him for defense secretary.

606
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: The other being a Cord in Seattle knocking down at

607
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: least for now temporarily blocking Donald Trump's executive order ending birthright.

608
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 4: Citizenship, as well.

609
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: Telsea Gabbard confirmation hearing set for next Thursday.

610
00:33:53,080 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 4: Next week is going to be wild. Thanks for listening

611
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: to the Balance of Power podcast.

612
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify,

613
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

614
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, d C.

615
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 4: At noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com