WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: Feel This Moment 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.400 I get everybody on Dan Horde and thanks for downloading 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:13.520 The Bengals Booth Podcast The WHOAO. I just want to 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.840 field this moment addition, sorry, Christine Aguilera. As the Bengals 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.560 hit the road on Tuesday and head to Los Angeles, 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:26.080 as we get closer to Super Bowl fifty six coming up, 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:28.720 I'll talk to a Bengals wide receiver with a unique 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.920 perspective on Sunday's game, Mike Thomas. He spent four years 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.680 with the Rams and now he's in his second year 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.680 with the Bengals. Then I'll talk to Robert Weintraub, who 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.720 covers the NFL for Football Outsiders and writes about the 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:46.440 Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine. Finally, it's an encore edition of 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:51.320 Fun Facts with Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow. The Bengals Booth 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.520 Podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.200 Next Level Fantasy Football game downloaded now from the app 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.120 Store and Google Play and by on Location, the official 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.880 hospitality partner of the NFL. Visit on Location exp dot 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.200 com for exclusive access to the biggest events in the 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.880 NFL all season long, including Super Bowl fifty six. Here's 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:16.959 a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.880 of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.720 computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:29.360 greatest thing since Cascatelli. I didn't realize that people were 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.720 still inventing new shapes of pasta, but lo and behold, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.280 a guy named Dan Pashman, who hosts a food podcast, 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:41.160 has come out with Cascatelli. That's the Italian word for waterfalls. 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.759 Dan says there are three qualities by which all pasta 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:50.320 shapes should be judged. One sauceability, how readily to sauce? 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:54.520 Add here? Two fork ability how easy is it to 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.880 get on a fork? And three tooth sync ability, how 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.440 satisfying is to sink your teeth into it. I'm here 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.880 to tell you that Cascatelli gets an A plus in 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.440 all three categories. It's the Joe Burrow of pasta shapes. 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.960 Now let's get to my guests, beginning with Bengals wide 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.600 receiver Mike Thomas, the one player in Super Bowl fifty 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:23.200 six who has played for both head coaches. Mike, you 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.000 are a member of the Rams when they went to 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.440 the Super Bowl four years ago, but unfortunately you were 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.680 injured and didn't get to play in the game. Can 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.520 you describe what it means to you to get back 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:37.760 and be on the active roster, man, It's undescribable. Honestly, 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.440 it took a while for me to let it all 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.120 come to me, like, Damn, I'm going back to the 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.560 Super Bowl and I'm actually playing in this game. Like 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.000 it it's so surreal, like the fact that I'm suiting 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.720 up and I can't really explain the feeling. It's just 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.880 it's overwhelming. I tell you that. Did you get emotional 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.160 after the AFC Championship went over the Chiefs? Yes, I did. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:03.240 I was. I was overwhelmingly happy, like we really did it, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.720 like it's actually happening, like it's it's no underdog like 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.440 Joe said, no underdog boar crap, Like we are. We don't. 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:12.840 We do them guys, and we deserved this and we 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.280 showing it each week, weekend and week out. So I 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.799 was overly excited. We're chatting the Bengals wide receiver Mike 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.160 tom I said, what point this year did you think, man, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.799 this team is good enough to go to the Super Bowl? Honestly, um, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.519 honestly penited to all our games we always was down, 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.320 uh you know, going in the halftime and after all 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.560 our game were majority of all our games, we always 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.240 came back and got back on top and one games. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.360 And every time I think about that and the previous 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.800 Super Bowl, like the Chance Kansas City Chief when they 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.240 won their Super Bowl year, they always came back and 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.840 won each game. So and when I think about that, 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.080 we resilient enough that when we down, we don't panic, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.960 We don't we don't trip, we don't go crazy. We 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.440 keep probably most you know, and tact and let's keep 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.000 playing ball into sixty minutes is over. One of the 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.080 big reasons, Mike, why the Bengals are headed to this 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.720 Super Bowl is the wide receiver room. It's led by 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.280 Jamar Chase t Higgins and Tyler Boyd, but all of 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.760 you guys have contributed in some way yourself, Stanley Morgan, 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.920 Trent Taylor, etc. What stands out to you about that 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.680 wide receiver room Just holding each other accountable, sending the 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.039 standard high high as possible that we can. There's no 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.760 room for mistakes. So the more that we in the 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.719 room together and sending each other, sending standards high and 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:38.120 making sure that we keep that standard above average. Damn 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.440 disguise a limit for us all. Has Jamar Chase been 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.920 treating you guys to stakes? Did I hear that correctly? Yeah? Yeah, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.040 we still got him on a little rookie kieer duty, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:50.800 So you know what I'm saying, held he'd been holding 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.080 it down. Good to know. We're chatting the Bengals wide 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.280 receiver Mike Thomas. When your buddies around the league ask 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.320 you about Joe Burrow, where do you tell him? Man? 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.080 He he the coolest in the game. Man like he 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.000 gotta you know everybody. Honestly, a lot of people were 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.560 telling me, Yeah, it seemed like out of all the 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:09.840 quarterbacks in the league, Joe got some spice to him. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.880 He got a little flavor to him. So if people 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.480 coming to me saying that, hey, Joe the coolest one 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.599 in the league right now, cool without trying to be cool, 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.599 without trying to effortless. We're chatting with the wide receiver 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.760 Mike Thomas. Mike and your second season in the NFL 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.880 with the Rams, Zach Taylor was your assistant wide receivers coach. 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.760 Did you ever dream that this guy would be a 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:42.159 Super Bowl head coach someday? To be real, nah, I 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.680 ain't gonna lieu. He was in. He was in our 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.200 Ride receiver room. So I have worked with previous Ride 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.520 receiver coach. They always never wanted to go up and beyond. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.400 They always just wanted to stay as a receiver coach man. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.279 Obviously Zach wanted more. He wanted to be a head guy. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.440 So obviously he doing it. He's doing at a greater 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.680 skill right now. What do you respect about Sean McVay 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.839 from when you played for him? His resiliency, He was 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.760 always cool. He never really raised his voice too much. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:14.240 He was always a cool, common, collective coach. And he 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:18.040 was a high standard guy too. He was always forcing 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.680 the details, making sure everything was perfect. And that's what 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.640 I can say about him. He was a professionalist. He 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.440 want everything's perfect so that we can set the standard 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.680 high and going games confident and not really wherever it 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.719 or think overthinking. So one of the challenges for the 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.039 Bengals wide receivers in this Super Bowl is going to 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.719 be trying to get open against Jalen Ramsey. He's probably 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.839 the best corner in the NFL. What makes him so 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:48.599 special Obviously he's a bigger framer, I mean cornerback of course, 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.520 he's like six two wide wingspans long. He's a long corner. So, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:54.840 if you know what I'm saying, going to get his 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.200 long corners ain't really fun. So anybody who can just 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.800 reach out and touch you across the on scrimmage, that's 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.440 as you know, that's you're gonna have a long day. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.200 So all credit to Jalen for sure. So, Mike, you 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.520 grew up in Chicago idolizing Chad Johnson. You wanted your 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.480 buddies to call you Mike Ocho Cinco when you were 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.600 in high school. Does it seem fitting to you that 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:22.480 you are going to a super Bowl in a Bengals uniform? Yeah, 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:26.320 I would say that. Um, it's only right man. Um, 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.480 Like you said, what the history says, it's been thirty 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.080 years since. It's been a long time. So I'm just 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.160 I'm just glad to be a part of this history. Man, 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.200 to just be you know, in the locker room with 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:42.120 the guy, sharing those those moments and cherishing every moment 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.080 and just man, I'm just excited. I mean, I can't 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:47.800 really explain it, man, It's just you just got to 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.520 cherish those moments and be humble and understand what you're 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.840 in what you know, what you did, what you got, 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.400 what you got in front of you. Honestly, I think 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.680 it seems a little bit unreal to all of us. 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.640 But have you allowed yourself to dream about what it 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.160 would be like to hold up that Lombardi Trophy after 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.760 winning a Super Bowl? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I can 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.640 picture with ring finger out what the ring going and everything. Man, 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.640 I can see for sure. I hope you get the 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.920 opportunity to wear it. But just making it as far 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.240 as a remarkable accomplishment. Congratulations Mike, and I appreciate your 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.480 time as always. Thank you, Thank you, d I appreciate you. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.080 Thomas only has five catches this year, along with four 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.880 tackles and a forced fumble on special teams. But if 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.439 there's one thing we've learned about the Super Bowl over 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.360 the years, it's that there are often unexpected heroes like 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.439 David Tyree, whose helmet catch helped the Giants beat the 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.760 undefeated Patriots. It was the final catch of his NFL career. 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.120 The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.360 free to play fantasy football game. This year, Ultimate Bengals 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.840 awarded a weekly winner during the course of the season 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:01.920 with tickets, autographed merchandise, and he can't buy experiences all 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.000 up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the app Store 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.199 and Google Play. In each of the last two years, 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.320 just before the start of the season, I've been joined 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:14.160 on this podcast by a writer named Robert Weintraub. Rob 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.720 covers the NFL for Football Outsiders, a website that focuses 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.080 on advanced statistical analysis, but he also writes on a 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.680 more personal level for Cincinnati Magazine. You see, Robert grew 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:31.400 up in suburban New York rooting for the Cincinnati Bengals. Robert, 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.640 the title of your most recent story for Cincinnati Magazine 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.880 is the Bengals Answered Our Prayers at long Last, and 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.840 the end of the first paragraph reads as follows. I 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.920 hope for it, prayed for it, offered to sell my 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.920 first born male son for it. Never truly believed it. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.439 It's been about a week. Are you still having a 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.680 hard time believing it? I definitely am. My son is 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:58.960 still for sale by the way out there, if anybody 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:03.600 wants to please do uh. It's it's living in this 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:08.480 sort of another world of disbelief with you know, incredible 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:13.600 pride and confidence in the team and just giddiness, I 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.840 guess is the one word that comes to mind. It's 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.680 they've come so far and it's all been so unexpected 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.800 that it's it's a better ride, I think than you know, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.760 had they gone into the season as a favorite, or 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:27.640 you know, a team that we thought couldn't even make 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.000 a Super Bowl run. The fact that it came so 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.640 out of nowhere and yet feels sustainable for the future 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.719 really is kind of the best of both worlds. There 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.320 there a year ahead of time, you know, they kind 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.360 of took this great leap forward, as they said in 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.920 China once upon a time, and you know, I think 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.920 that really makes it more special than it would be otherwise. 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.479 And of course the way they've won the games themselves 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.800 have been you know, hard to believe and make it 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.040 even more of a too much at times of a 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.480 roller coaster ride. But when you come out on the 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.839 winning side of those games, it makes it's so much better. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.360 And you know, it's just I'm still dizzy. Maybe that'll 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.880 wear off by the time to kickoff next week, We'll see, 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.360 but you know, for now, I'm still I'm walking on air. 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.520 I've been saying to people, there's nothing better as a 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.160 sports fan, and when your team reaches this level and 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:22.400 it's entirely unexpected, it would have been great under any circumstances. 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.320 Hopefully five years from now, when the Bengals are going 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.200 to their fifth consecutive Super Bowl, we'll still think it's great. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:31.840 But when it's completely unexpected, that's the best, right. Yeah. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.040 You know, we talked before the season started and we 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.240 were just like, maybe, hopefully, let's pray they play some 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.040 meaningful games in December. Let's hope they have an outside 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.760 crack at the playoffs, you know, And I think in 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.040 the back of our minds, knowing that Joe Burrow was 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.959 the quarterback, this was not completely out of the realm 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.440 of possibility. But obviously coming off the injury, you know, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.160 we didn't know what to expect. We didn't know how 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.200 long it was going to take for him to go 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.520 back to being Joe Burrow, and I think it did 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.720 take somewhere along the lines of half a season for 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.040 him to do that. But you know, the way they've 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.520 then just kind of boarded this rocket ship and taken 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.360 the flight straight to the moon has been really pretty amazing, 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.079 And yeah, it is. It is the best it can 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.040 never be replicated. Really, I mean, that's the thing about it, 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.400 and you know that's what makes it really that much 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.920 more special. And then I just worry that if they 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.400 don't finish the drill as they say, and don't win 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.079 the Super Bowl itself, maybe we have a bit of 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:28.680 a bitter sweet feeling at the end of all this. 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.920 But I'm trying not to get into that mental space 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.760 just yet. We're chatting with Robert Weintraub, who covers the 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.360 NFL for Football Outsiders and writes about the Bengals for 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:40.160 Cincinnati Magazine. In the article I referenced earlier, you also 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.800 described how you were so nervous that you could not 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.000 watch the finish on TV. You went to another room. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.600 You'll be happy to know my eighty five year old 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.240 mother does the same thing, so you are in good company. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.920 At what point couldn't you stand the stress? It was 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.959 when the Chiefs were driving for what was going to 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.839 be a go ahead down or take the entirety of 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.640 the clock, as it happened, and kick the field goal 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.080 send the game into over time. At that point, with 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.319 the ball in Joe Burrow's hands, I probably wouldn't have 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.720 felt the same way I'd have felt maybe a little 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.600 bit of his confidence would have ebbed into my field. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.320 But with Joe on the bench and the Patrick Mahomes, 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.199 you know, going downfield, even though he had been struggling 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.360 for the entirety of the second half. Nevertheless, the jelly 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.120 in my knees did not allow me to stand up 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.120 the you know, the mini stroke feelings I was having 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.800 in my chest and head. Said let's just walk away 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.079 from this and put your prioritize your health over to 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.640 Bengals for once in your life, and it worked out 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.040 pretty well. The question will be in the Super Bowl. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:50.319 I have similar strength if the situation repeats itself. Hopefully 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.320 the Bengals go out to about a thirty seven nothing 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.079 we had to just cruise home from there. Somehow I 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.720 doubt it, but we'll make that decision when the time comes. 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.480 We can dream, There's no doubt about that. We've recorded 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.920 podcast each of the last two years after the Football 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.439 Outsiders preseason Almanac came out, and your feelings about Joe 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.040 Burrow have been clear. You call him atlas for carrying 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.840 the franchise on his shoulders, but how did this team 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.120 get to the Super Bowl in his second year? When 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.320 you have a truly transformative player, they're capable of doing 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.080 these things. And we look back and you know, it 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.440 happens more often than you might think. I mean, when 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.200 teams have truly a great player at that position, obviously 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.560 it happens faster than you might imagine. You know, Mahomes 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.280 went to the super Bowl in his second year as 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.000 a starter, Roethlisberger Ben Roethlisberger in his second year as 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.120 a starter, Aaron Rodgers in his second year. When you 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.120 have a guy like that, all things are possible. I mean, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.440 we always talked about it. We knew it. We had to, 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.800 you know, so sort of see it to believe it maybe, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.120 But you know, that's why you drafted the guy like 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.960 this number one overall. That's why we were so happy 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.760 to you know, kind of bottom out instead of finishing 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.000 you know, five and eleven in twenty nineteen. It was like, Okay, 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.200 we got a rack at this sort of once in 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.800 a lifetime ish kind of player, and he makes things 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.480 like this possible. I mean, I hate to break a 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.640 complicated game down into such a simple, you know sort 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.120 of factor, but you know it's true. We can go 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.640 on and on about all the little things that Bengals 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.720 have done, and all the offseason moves that they did 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.520 that worked out pretty much entirely one hundred percent, all 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.080 the things they've done offensively, you know, to scheme around 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.320 the fact the offensive line is not great, etc. Etc. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.240 Evan mcpherrison. Of course being the future ten time All 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.800 Pro that we thought it might be coming out of college. Oh, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.040 that's great, and all of it's true, But the single 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.040 most important factor is Joe Burrow and a player of 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.720 his ilk, not just playing the way he plays, but obviously, 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.120 you know, giving some of his character and leadership and 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.480 the intangibles that we talk about so much in our 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.680 metric based company at Football Outsiders, I'd sort of feel 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.800 a trader talking about things like that that can't be measured. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.040 But it's clear these hadn't effect a transformative effect, not 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.640 just on the team, not the entire organization. It's what 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.440 he was rafted to do, It's what we thought he 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.920 was capable of doing, and he's done it already in 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.600 year two. It's truly a fantastic, incredible accomplishment and you know, 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.440 something he should be pretty proud of. I'm sure your colleague, 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.920 Mike Tanier wrote the Bengals preview for Football Outsiders this year, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.560 and it was not encouraging. Have you playfully reminded him 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.080 of that? Oh? I told him next year's essay, which 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.000 I will write, will just be a point by point 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.960 hit for tat reader on of that and pointing out 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.080 where he was wrong. And whenever he goes on radio 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.720 shows this week or podcasts on Super Bowl Week, I 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.920 told him he's going to have to go back and 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.760 refer to that essay that he wrote, perhaps with a 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:47.240 celebrity voice to give it more of a Samuel L. Jackson, 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.760 perhaps scorn attached to the way he wrote that. Yeah, 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.880 you know, I mean that was the sort of national 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.080 outsider's view of the Bengals, And you know, you can't 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.040 say he was unjustified and he went out of his way, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.560 perhaps with a few had hominem attacks and a little 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.760 extra snark, But that's Mike. I mean. The point of 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.600 it is the Bengals didn't have much to stand on 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.919 over the last five years or so. They didn't have 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.040 much success. Obviously, they hadn't won a playoff game as 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.240 we know in over three decades, and they were sort 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.280 of they were doing things differently now as it turns 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.480 out sometimes when you do things differently and you have 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.880 an organization that isn't you know, just busy chasing the 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.920 same thing every the other organization is chasing, that works 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.479 out for you. And sometimes, you know, these things are 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.840 also also cyclical. I mean, the drafts were very good 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.280 in the first half of the twenty tens, and they 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:43.040 took a downward turn in the second half. That's every team, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.159 you know, most teams go through something like that. It 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.119 can't be one hundred percent in the front office and 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.760 personnel things like that. And the Bengals were different upward 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.080 turn in that respect, and it happened, and it happened 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.919 to the end degree, and they happen to you know, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.399 also get a chance that, you know, the great quarterback 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.640 who didn't get to show what he was really capable 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.680 of last year, and the fact that he went out 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:09.480 in such a disturbing and catastrophic way also lent the 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.560 national media to sort of dismiss the Bengals and Burrow 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.160 in a casual way. He's kind of aut of sight, 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.240 out of mind. I feel like, coming into the season, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.960 it's like, well, yeah, he's there, but you know, let's 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.040 see what he can really do, and you know he did. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.159 And I think if Mike were here now with some 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.600 true serum, we would be able to pin him down 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.240 and say that he was a little over the top. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.960 But that's okay. I mean, you know, the success is 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.359 the last laugh, and I've had a few at his 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.480 expense throughout the season. So they have the transformative player 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.600 in Joe Burrow at quarterback. But where was this team 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.480 much better than the metrics suggested it would be? Obviously, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.440 run defense is the first and foremost place you look. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.679 They were top ten all season in that respect, something 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.840 I didn't think it was even possible, much less you know, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.600 going to happen at a consistent rate this season. You 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:03.640 know the fact that they addressed it in the off 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.080 season so heavily in the last two off seasons. Really 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.159 if you count Dj Reader, who had a really excellent season, 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.000 and he too was pretty much forgotten about. People don't 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.879 remember that he was lost for most of the twenty 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.800 twenty seasons, so just getting him back was it was 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.360 a huge effect on the interior that defensive line, and 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.399 you know, the way they were able to consistently stop 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.760 other teams running games, which was you know, passing is 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.880 much more of the way to go. It's much more 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.920 efficient overall in football. But teams still want to kind 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.600 of break you, for lack of a better word. They 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.000 want to control the game through the running attack, and 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.640 if you deny them that, you know, it makes obviously 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.760 winning on defense much easier. That Bengals still struggled to 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.919 stop the pass in a lot of games this season 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.719 and overall this season, I think could say, but the 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:53.920 fact that they were consistently able to stop other teams 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.320 running games meant that they couldn't the other team couldn't 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.240 put away games on them, and they were That's the 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.879 reason why they were always in these late comeback fourth 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.359 quarter games, and they always had a chance because the 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.159 other team couldn't kill the clock on him. That was 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.960 a big, big factor and certainly something I didn't see coming. 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.000 I don't think anybody did, maybe except for the Bengals 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.200 staff and the Bengals players. For chatting with Robert Weintraub, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.880 who covers the NFL for Football Outsiders and the Bengals 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.080 for Cincinnati Magazine. He is also the author of several books, 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:26.720 including The Divine Miss Marble, available in paperback. So let's 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.679 turn our attention out of the Bengals and Rams in 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.000 Super Bowl fifty six. I know you've been diving into 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.760 the advanced numbers. What are some of the keys to 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.879 this matchup based on your research? Well, first of all, 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.040 we'll have to overcome a large gap between the Rams 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.679 and the Bengals in terms of overall DVOA, which is 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:49.200 the standard Football Outsiders stat which measures kind of down 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.280 by down efficiency. I think one thing you would obviously 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.560 know is that the Bengals were not efficient from down 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.800 to down this year. They were very boom er Bus team. 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.439 The Rams were much better, and the gap is pretty large. 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.040 We give the Rams about a sixty five percent chance 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.639 of winning the game. I think if you look historically 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.560 to the one game that this kind of numerically matches 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.840 the most, though, it's it's the two thousand and one game, 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.480 which also involved the Rams then in Saint Louis against 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.400 the Patriots with a young quarterback who not too many 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:21.480 people knew all that much about, but managed to pull 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.000 the upset and spring in a new dynasty, a long 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.920 lasting dynasty said yeah, that that Rams Patriots games game 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.879