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Speaker 1: Pushkin. The following episode contains discussions of sexual assault that

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Speaker 1: some listeners may find distressing. There's a certain equality in death.

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Speaker 1: Visit a British military cemetery with its pristine lawns and

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Speaker 1: carefully tended flower beds, and you'll see no difference between

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Speaker 1: the pale stone grave markers of women's service members and

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Speaker 1: those of their male counterparts. The lower carved crest of

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Speaker 1: their unit bit Army, Navy, or air force. The tombstones

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Speaker 1: carry each woman's name, her rank, the date on which

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Speaker 1: she died, and her age forty four, twenty seven, twenty one,

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventeen. In a space at the bottom of each stone,

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Speaker 1: relatives are permitted to add a brief personal message. One

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Speaker 1: grieving family rights not goodbye darling, but are revoir for

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Speaker 1: we will meet again. Illness and accident accounted for hundreds

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Speaker 1: of these wartime deaths, and while women were not supposed

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Speaker 1: to serve on the front lines, many were indeed killed

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Speaker 1: by enemy bullets and bombs. But distressingly, some of these

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Speaker 1: tombstones also mark the final resting places of women who

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Speaker 1: died in other troubling circumstances. Thirty seven year old Lilian

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Speaker 1: Welsh an army cook is cycling back to the cottage

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Speaker 1: she shares with her husband, William and their daughter Audrey.

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Speaker 1: Her steel helmet and military gas mask are slung over

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Speaker 1: her shoulder. It's late in the evening and the twisting

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Speaker 1: road is dark. Thick woodland comes right up to the

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Speaker 1: edge of the tarmac, the bare winter branches meeting overhead.

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Speaker 1: One probably isn't too concerned by the gloom. She's familiar

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Speaker 1: with this quiet route, But then the sound of an

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Speaker 1: approaching engine slowly fills the chill night air. The light

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Speaker 1: from the truck's hooded headlamps might just be enough to

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Speaker 1: illuminate Lilian's back and cast a shadow onto the tarmac ahead.

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Speaker 1: The light grows stronger, the engine louder. Something isn't right.

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Speaker 1: Lilian keeps to her side of the road and pedals on.

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Speaker 1: Why doesn't he overtake? Why doesn't he pull over to

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Speaker 1: the right and pass by? Hemmed in by trees? There's

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Speaker 1: no obvious escape for the cyclist. How long this terrifying

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Speaker 1: chase lasts isn't known. Perhaps it's a matter of seconds,

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Speaker 1: or perhaps Lilian is pursued by the driver for hundreds

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Speaker 1: of yards. When the fender of the truck hits Lilian's bike.

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Speaker 1: The force is enough to crumple the frame. Lini is

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Speaker 1: catapulted from the saddle and sprawls onto the road just

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Speaker 1: ahead of the truck. Her wristwatch stops at nine point

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Speaker 1: fifty three. This is the seldom told story of women

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Speaker 1: in World War Two who were killed not by the enemy,

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Speaker 1: but by husbands, lovers and strangers wearing the uniform of

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Speaker 1: their own side.

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Speaker 2: It's also the tale of a particular string of murder

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Speaker 2: victims that history has swept from view. I'm Halle Rubinholt

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Speaker 2: and I'm Alice Fines and.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to bad women the Blackout Ripper.

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Speaker 2: During the Second World War, violence perpetrated against women wasn't

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Speaker 2: confined to the Blackout Ripper's West End hunting ground. It

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Speaker 2: happened in other parts of London too, in other big

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Speaker 2: cities and their suburbs, in bustling port towns, at remote

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Speaker 2: air bases and army barracks, and even on the quiet

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Speaker 2: lanes and rural backroads so familiar to Lillian Welsh. In

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Speaker 2: this episode, we'll leave Piccadilly and Soho to explore the

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Speaker 2: lives of young women who enlisted in the armed forces.

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Speaker 2: These women made unique and brave contributions to the war effort,

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Speaker 2: breaking codes and parachuting into enemy territory. They also made

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Speaker 2: other equally important contributions, doing the dull and dirty tasks

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Speaker 2: that freed men up to fight on the front line.

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Speaker 2: Many had the time of their lives.

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Speaker 3: I was very much afraid the war would end before

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Speaker 3: I could get involved and help to win. But luckily

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Speaker 3: it didn't, and in fact have a rather interesting war.

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Speaker 2: Women like Patricia Autram were plucked from their homes and

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Speaker 2: faced new challenges alongside people they'd never otherwise have met.

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Speaker 2: The foundations of careers were built, friendships forged, and romances kindled.

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Speaker 3: I did have a boyfriend, a Canadian. We used to

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Speaker 3: explore Kent and his staff car and you know, have

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Speaker 3: a bit of a social life. But of course he

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Speaker 3: went off to e're up. He wrote for time, and

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Speaker 3: then obviously he lost interest. So I didn't form any

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Speaker 3: permanent attachment during the war. I was quite keen, not

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Speaker 3: too actually, because I didn't just want to be married

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Speaker 3: and settled down have a family. I wanted to have

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Speaker 3: a career.

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Speaker 2: Pat and her sister Jean were teenagers when they joined up,

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Speaker 2: and their foreign language skills saw them assigned to top

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Speaker 2: secret work spying on the enemy.

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Speaker 3: For coasona Fordham Grossento Stanta on Stratnakdo.

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Speaker 2: Today, both aged nearly one hundred, The sisters have a

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Speaker 2: party piece. They sing the popular wartime hit Lily Marlane together,

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Speaker 2: Pat in German Jeane in Italian.

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Speaker 4: Part Man Party. I've probably got a lot of the

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Speaker 4: words wrong, but we used to sing it out too.

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Speaker 2: Both women clearly loved their time in the forces, and

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Speaker 2: in retirement in the leafy London district of Chiswick, they

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Speaker 2: happily regale visitors with tales of their wartime.

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Speaker 3: Exploits, probably the only irrespectable olady in Chiswick who might

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Speaker 3: be able to use a light machine gun.

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Speaker 2: But the new opportunities they enjoyed sometimes brought new and

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Speaker 2: less welcome interactions. Jean, a crossword whiz who became a codebreaker,

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Speaker 2: traveled widely. Her secret work took her to the battle

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Speaker 2: fronts of North Africa and Italy, often perilously close to

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Speaker 2: the fighting, but it was in London that she experienced

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Speaker 2: one chillingbrush with danger. During an air raid, she was

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Speaker 2: forced to take cover in a public shelter.

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Speaker 4: And there was a man, their most appalling creature that

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Speaker 4: I had ever seen, the level of wild life, who

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Speaker 4: reached out as I came in.

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Speaker 2: Jean was a teenager and alone. She turned on her

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Speaker 2: heels and raced back up the steps to escape this

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Speaker 2: male assailant. In the end, she decided that it was

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Speaker 2: better to face the blitz than to risk falling into

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Speaker 2: his clutches.

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Speaker 4: So I did stay up on the top, but luckily

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Speaker 4: it was not bombed and nobody killed me, but it

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Speaker 4: might have done if I'd gone down those steps.

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Speaker 2: Such terrifying encounters were by no means rare, and while

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Speaker 2: Pat and Jen have nothing but praise for their male colleagues,

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Speaker 2: women in the forces didn't just have to avoid assault

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Speaker 2: at the hands of strangers in air raid shelters. The

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Speaker 2: men fighting alongside them could also pose a threat.

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Speaker 5: Men must dodge advancing bullets, and girls are expected to

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Speaker 5: dodge advancing men.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Tessa Dunlop says female veterans have long been reluctant

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Speaker 1: to talk about such harassment.

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Speaker 5: They don't want to undermine the reputation of Britain's military

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Speaker 5: forces in its greatest hour. Why would they want to

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Speaker 5: do that. You know, we were the goodies. Our boys

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Speaker 5: were the good guys.

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Speaker 1: Tessa is the author of Army Girls, The Secrets and

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Speaker 1: Stories and Militaries from the final Few Women who fought

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Speaker 1: in World War II. She spent countless hours talking to

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Speaker 1: female veterans and examining written accounts from the time.

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Speaker 5: I noticed there was a clear discrepancy between the way

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Speaker 5: in which they remembered their experiences fondly laughing he's a

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Speaker 5: bit of a pest, giggling about it in late Great

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Speaker 5: old Age and the letters they wrote home, especially if

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Speaker 5: the letters were written between contemporaries written to their peers.

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Speaker 1: Tessa's research has uncovered patterns of harassment, intimidation, and sexual

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Speaker 1: offenses that are grimly familiar to women today, like the

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Speaker 1: behaviors described in this private letter.

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Speaker 5: I do wish that men didn't always assume that if

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Speaker 5: they take you out, they can kiss you whenever they choose.

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Speaker 5: Last night, I went with a naval type to the club.

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Speaker 5: He started getting guy, and I had a hell of

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Speaker 5: a time on the way home.

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Speaker 1: When service women faced lude comments, unwanted advances, groping, or worse,

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Speaker 1: the opportunities to challenge something behavior were limited there was

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Speaker 1: the usual social pressure on women to manage the egos

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Speaker 1: of all men, but the military added another power dynamic.

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Speaker 1: Would any allegations be taken seriously if the man accused

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Speaker 1: was of a higher rank. Tessa gathered testimony from an

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Speaker 1: army clerk, Joan Aubrey, who came under intense pressure to

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Speaker 1: enter a relationship with an officer, and.

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Speaker 5: He just drives that a distraction. He sort of stalks her.

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Speaker 5: I mean, he starts trying to contact her parents. He

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Speaker 5: tries to change her leave to match hers, He leaves

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Speaker 5: her flowers on her desk, he tries to kiss her.

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Speaker 5: She's really bothered by it, she writes to her parents.

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Speaker 5: She says, I'm so depressed. I could really wish all

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Speaker 5: these men would go away, well, mainly one particular man.

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Speaker 1: With her daily work life thus blighted and no relief

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Speaker 1: in sight, all Joan could do was pray that the

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Speaker 1: officer would be posted elsewhere, hopefully to the grim fighting

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Speaker 1: taking place in the remote jungles of Burma. Other than

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Speaker 1: these letters and diaries, this sort of harassment doesn't leave

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Speaker 1: much of a paper trail, and the military shame. It's

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Speaker 1: only when it becomes more extreme and more violent that

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Speaker 1: it finally crops up in the official archives in the

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Speaker 1: form of court martial papers, police files, and autopsy reports.

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Speaker 5: It was pretty dark staff that's going on at its worst,

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Speaker 5: pretty dark stuff.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, it was still early when farm worker Herbert Pratt

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Speaker 2: set out, too dark for him to see much of

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Speaker 2: anything as he cycled to the fields and his waiting tractor.

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Speaker 2: But then a strange shape on the verge at the

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Speaker 2: side of the road caught his eye. A cap lay

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Speaker 2: on the ground bearing the insignia of the women's branch

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Speaker 2: of the Army, the Auxiliary Territorial Service or ATS, and

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Speaker 2: close by was its owner. Lillian Welsh had suffered devastating

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Speaker 2: head wounds. Blood trails across the tarmac revealed that her

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Speaker 2: body had been dragged from the obvious sight of the collision.

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Speaker 2: Whoever had killed this soldier had lingered at the crime scene,

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Speaker 2: tampering with evidence. Lilian's underwear had been removed and placed

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Speaker 2: next to her corpse. Lilian was laid to rest in

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Speaker 2: the shadow of the ancient Stone church not far from

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Speaker 2: the Welsh family cottage. Her coffin was ceremonially draped with

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Speaker 2: the Union flag and her headstone bore the crest of

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Speaker 2: the ats, as well as her rank and serial number.

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Speaker 2: The sergeants for whom she cooked stood to attention at

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Speaker 2: the graveside, and full military honors were observed as her

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Speaker 2: coffin was lowered into the ground.

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Speaker 1: Investigators reviewing Lilian's long list of injuries quickly concluded that

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Speaker 1: only a heavy vehicle could have wrought such damage, that

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Speaker 1: type of vehicle driven almost exclusively by military personnelity.

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Speaker 6: I've got a few questions I'd like to ask you

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Speaker 6: if you don't.

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Speaker 1: Police officers checked alibis for army drivers in camps in

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Speaker 1: the vicinity. They identified one man who returned alone to

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Speaker 1: his billet in a one and a half ton truck

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Speaker 1: after ten o'clock on the night in question. At first,

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Speaker 1: William Flack denied the allegations, but with the discovery of

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Speaker 1: a pair of blood drenched boots hidden away under his

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Speaker 1: army cot and of incriminating dents and blood traces on

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Speaker 1: the truck, his story slowly shifted. He was new to

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Speaker 1: the area and he had mistakenly passed the turn to

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Speaker 1: his camp and followed Lillian's route home instead. He maintained

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Speaker 1: that he hadn't seen the cyclist at all, not until

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Speaker 1: it was too late. He claimed that, disorientated and panicked,

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Speaker 1: he'd moved her body and tampered with her underclothes, all

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Speaker 1: in a bid to make it appear that someone who

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Speaker 1: knew her had committed the crime. Flack was charged with

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Speaker 1: wilful murder. Then the prosecution added more charges to the

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Speaker 1: court docket. A pair of young women from Wales, where

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Speaker 1: Flack had previously been stationed, accused the army driver of

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Speaker 1: sexual assault. One woman described how he'd launched his attack

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Speaker 1: after knocking her from her bike with his truck. Flack

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Speaker 1: denied this version of events. These women were simply lying.

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Speaker 1: And as for mowing Lilian down bespectacle, Flack stated that

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Speaker 1: he was a novice behind the wheel and he'd repeatedly

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Speaker 1: asked to be reassigned from driving duties because he fretted

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Speaker 1: about his eyesight. He wasn't in the habit of deliberately

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Speaker 1: knocking down women and launching sexual attacks on them. He

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Speaker 1: was just clumsy. After twenty five minutes of deliberation, the

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Speaker 1: jury agreed with Flack he was no murderer, and the judge,

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Speaker 1: for his part, concurred with this verdict. Rather than being

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Speaker 1: sent to the gallows. Flack received a seven year prison

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Speaker 1: sentence for manslaughter. Flack died in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 1: Who knows if, as an elderly man he stood to

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Speaker 1: attention amidst other veterans at Armistice Day parades, if he

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Speaker 1: shared stories of his time in the forces, or if

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Speaker 1: you let people stand them a bier at the local

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Speaker 1: pub in thanks for his wartime service. Bringing offenders before

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Speaker 1: the courts and securing convictions was difficult enough in this

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Speaker 1: age before advanced forensic science, but when young women and

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Speaker 1: particularly service women were the victims, there were other hurdles

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Speaker 1: to clear. Women in the forces were dogged by crude

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Speaker 1: insinuations that they invited the advances of men and that

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Speaker 1: they were asking for trouble. In fact, the reports and

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Speaker 1: files on these cases are often a dismal exercise in

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Speaker 1: victim blaming. All too often violence against women was cruelly

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Speaker 1: ignored or coldly dismissed. Bad women. The blackout Ripper will

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Speaker 1: return in a moment.

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Speaker 5: Have you seen this?

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Speaker 2: Witnesses said the band was playing with entango, sensation jealousy.

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Speaker 2: As eighteen year old Private Louisa Price left the Dance

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Speaker 2: of the Forest Glen Pavilla, the raucous affair hosted by

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Speaker 2: a detachment of American soldiers.

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Speaker 6: You see your dancemen.

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Speaker 2: She didn't go far when her body was found in

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Speaker 2: the nearby undergrowth. Her uniform and underwear had been torn away,

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Speaker 2: and she'd been beaten to death with a rock. Months later,

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Speaker 2: prosecutors thought they had their man, a twenty two year

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Speaker 2: old military policeman called Sergeant Michael Piosh, who had sustained

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Speaker 2: several injuries on the night of the dance, and whose

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Speaker 2: uniform bore bloodstains matching not only his own blood type

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Speaker 2: but also Louisa's. British police had carried out the investigation,

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Speaker 2: but because Piosh was American, it was the US Army

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Speaker 2: who charged and tried him. At the trial, the officer

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Speaker 2: defending Piosh deployed a cynical strategy, probing and picking apart

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Speaker 2: Louisa Price's conduct.

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Speaker 7: Private Price was a pretty good jitterbug dancer.

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Speaker 2: He asked Louisa's ats comrade Lily Bentley. Yes, the jitterbug

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Speaker 2: was one of the most fashionable dances of the day,

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Speaker 2: but also the most notorious. Energetic and lively. Jitterbugging was

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Speaker 2: seen by many as a deeply inappropriate and morally suspect

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Speaker 2: import from the USA. Many venues in America and the

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Speaker 2: UK had already banned the dance, and the moral panic

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Speaker 2: about jitterbuggers like Louisa Price carried both misogynistic and racist overtone.

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Speaker 2: One disgusted dance fall observer described.

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Speaker 6: Maiden's gasping with their eyes staring, almost fainting as they

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Speaker 6: hurled themselves about like savages.

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Speaker 2: Was the defense counsel trying to paint a less than

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Speaker 2: flattering picture of Private Price? Had she surrendered to this

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Speaker 2: heathen music been passed from partner to partner and flung

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Speaker 2: into the air like a savage with her army skirt

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Speaker 2: billowing wildly? Lily Bentley defended her friend, Private Price, She

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Speaker 2: told the court had only jitterbugged with other women. The

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Speaker 2: defense tried another tack. Had the ats girls also requested

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Speaker 2: that a sexually charged tango be played? And had they

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Speaker 2: further teased the servicemen at the dance by asking the

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Speaker 2: band to play the aptly titled hit Jealousy?

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Speaker 7: Were you one of those who asked the orchestra to

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Speaker 7: play Jealousy closer? Had you asked for a tango?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 8: Sir.

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Speaker 2: The defense suggested that Louisa had been killed by one

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Speaker 2: of the men on the dance floor that night, a

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Speaker 2: man she led on they insimulated by whose advances she

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Speaker 2: then refused. Pioche, who was heavily inebriated, had been in

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Speaker 2: no fit state that night to tango or dance a jitterbug.

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Speaker 2: His own council described.

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Speaker 7: Him as a drunken, drooling idiot.

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Speaker 2: Sergeant Piersche was acquitted, and he vowed to stop drinking

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Speaker 2: for good. Louisa Price's killer was never found.

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Speaker 1: The drunken, jitterbugging and tangoing of that party would only

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Speaker 1: have reinforced a popular opinion about ats girls. The women

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Speaker 1: of the Auxiliary Territorial Service were mockingly called.

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Speaker 5: Ground sheets for the officers, or the Auxiliary tart Service.

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Speaker 1: Tessa Dunlop says the move to conscript women into the

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Speaker 1: armed forces in nineteen forty one, when the demands of

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Speaker 1: the war were quite literally outstripping the supply of manpower,

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Speaker 1: was deeply unsettling for many people.

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Speaker 5: You know, this is a real sign that Britain is

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Speaker 5: wastep in a war. It's not winning if it's having

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Speaker 5: to actually draft into military service. Into uniform females.

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Speaker 1: The Nazi threat was an existential one, critics admitted, but

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Speaker 1: surely women serving in the armed forces risk destroying the

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Speaker 1: patriarchal underpinnings, the very fabric of British society.

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Speaker 5: So an idea that a man was going to go

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Speaker 5: away and fight, he was going to be the brave hero.

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Speaker 5: He was fighting for this ideal, the domestic idell, the

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Speaker 5: idea of the sort of wife at home with the

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Speaker 5: comely bosom and for cunned overflowing table. And there was

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Speaker 5: a deep fear, and it persisted throughout the war that

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Speaker 5: if you in some way unpick those very clearly defined

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Speaker 5: gender roles where the woman is a feminine icon to

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Speaker 5: be protected and looked after, and a man as masculine

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Speaker 5: and brave and wears a uniform and kills, sometimes it

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Speaker 5: will somehow undermine the basis on which war is fought

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Speaker 5: and the War Office, because I've had total connections over

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Speaker 5: the demoralizing of troops. If women further encroached on this

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Speaker 5: very male domain that was the military.

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Speaker 1: Many poorer women were already doing tough, physically demanding jobs

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Speaker 1: to feed their families and themselves. But for veterans like

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Speaker 1: Pat and jene Otram, who were entrusted with complex and

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Speaker 1: top secret tasks. There was a real sense that they

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Speaker 1: were breaking down barriers.

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Speaker 3: I think I was lucky because, of course no woman

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Speaker 3: in the family had and I thing like the sort

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Speaker 3: of jobs that Gina and I did in the war,

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Speaker 3: and you were rather aware that you were covering new ground.

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Speaker 1: Pat can't recall facing discrimination in the course of her duties,

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Speaker 1: though her experience within the world of spying and intelligence

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Speaker 1: was far from the norm. She was, however, adamant that

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Speaker 1: society's prevailing prejudices about women's limited capabilities were quite wrong.

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Speaker 3: I'm very keen that women can rarely do those jobs.

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Speaker 3: Anything like intelligence or the sort of jobs that I

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Speaker 3: was involved with perfectly well be done by a woman.

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Speaker 3: But I think we did make a considerable step forward

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Speaker 3: during the war by showing that, yes, we could do

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Speaker 3: our perhaps a bit more than women had ever been

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Speaker 3: thought of as capable of.

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Speaker 1: There was a further concern about allowing nice young women

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Speaker 1: like Pat and Jeane to undertake military service. According to

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Speaker 1: Tessa Dunlop, it was feared that once they had been

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Speaker 1: unleashed from the confines of domesticity, women would grow unfeminine,

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Speaker 1: coarse and sexually promiscuous, hurting the morale of their menfolk, and.

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Speaker 5: The idea being. Of course, if you're a boy fatting

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Speaker 5: out on the front line, you're worried your fiance, your

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Speaker 5: sweetart home, is suddenly in uniform and actually not at

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Speaker 5: home anymore, you know, might she be being flowered? So

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Speaker 5: this was a really genuine concern.

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Speaker 2: Rumors of sexual promiscuity among female recruits spread far and wide.

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Speaker 2: It was the stuff of pub chatter, but it was

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Speaker 2: also debated in the corridors of power. Questions were asked

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Speaker 2: about it in Parliament.

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Speaker 6: There is absolutely no foundation whatsoever for this whispering campaign,

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Speaker 6: which I regret very much. Indeed, is there a fine

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Speaker 6: body of women who are doing a fine job of work.

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Speaker 2: Although the Secretary of State for War defended the honor

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Speaker 2: of female recruits, a fellow politician told the government he

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Speaker 2: was pretty sure the whole country had the.

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Speaker 7: Very definite impression that the ATS is not the sort

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Speaker 7: of service to which a nice girl calls.

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Speaker 6: Please ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: The ATS had been organizing recruitment values.

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Speaker 6: How we know our girls are going to be safe?

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Speaker 2: Now? It had to change tack very pleased to such

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Speaker 2: stage in public meetings to pacify parents and husbands and

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Speaker 2: convinced them that their daughters and wives weren't headed for

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Speaker 2: a life of barrack room debauchery. The authorities tried to

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Speaker 2: demonstrate that these allegations of sexual immorality weren't supported by

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Speaker 2: the facts. They tallied the number of babies born out

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Speaker 2: of wedlock in the general population and found it was

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Speaker 2: higher than the number born to service women. But of course,

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Speaker 2: mud sticks. Some parents reacted with cold fury at the

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Speaker 2: lewd denuendos and idle chatter directed at their girls in

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Speaker 2: the ATS. The famously proud coal miners of Durham in

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Speaker 2: northern England suspected that class snobbery played a significant role

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Speaker 2: in the denigration of their daughters serving in the military.

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Speaker 1: Looks like she's wearing a MAM's old curtains if you

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Speaker 1: ask me.

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Speaker 2: They declared, blisteringly that these rumors of immorality were intended

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Speaker 2: to be smirched.

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Speaker 7: Schools whose reputations are unassailable in their horn tones and villages.

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Speaker 2: Says that class was a defining issue for the women's services,

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Speaker 2: especially the ATS. The rapidly expanding wartime military had little

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Speaker 2: choice but to take recruits from all walks of life,

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Speaker 2: spucking fears that so called decent girls could fall in

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Speaker 2: with and be contaminated by ruffs from the slums. Anne,

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Speaker 2: another veteran interviewed by Tessa, recalled the gaping class divide

385
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Speaker 2: in her unit, which was largely made up of girls

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Speaker 2: from London's impoverished East End.

387
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Speaker 5: Anne, who was a Vicker's daughter and who was immediately

388
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Speaker 5: promoted above them aged eighteen, you know, remembers spending hours

389
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Speaker 5: combing the knits out of their hair and just being

390
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Speaker 5: spellbound by their conversations about sex and boys, stuff she'd

391
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Speaker 5: never heard before. Because Anne says, what endured was our

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Speaker 5: friendship and we would have never met had it not

393
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Speaker 5: been the war. This idea that there was this ny

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Speaker 5: Vickers girl having her eyes opened, and likewise the East

395
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Speaker 5: End of London equivalents, you know, being struck by this

396
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Speaker 5: Decora's very sweet, polite girl who was helping them. So

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Speaker 5: there was an aspect of melting.

398
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Speaker 2: The ats vigorously argued that far from corrupting the nation's

399
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Speaker 2: good girls, this social mixing elevated all recruits. After all,

400
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Speaker 2: Winston Churchill's daughter Mary joined up, as did heir to

401
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Speaker 2: the British throne, Princess Elizabeth. The daughters of the rich,

402
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Speaker 2: so went the theory, had the breeding confidence and wherewithal

403
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Speaker 2: to say no to men. It was hoped, therefore, that

404
00:26:35,316 --> 00:26:38,316
Speaker 2: the right sort of girl would teach the wrong sort

405
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Speaker 2: how to ward off male advances and the deep shame

406
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Speaker 2: of premarital pregnancy. But as will hereafter the break, some

407
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Speaker 2: men wouldn't take no for an answer.

408
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Speaker 1: The following story contains explicit language and descriptions of sexual

409
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Speaker 1: assault that some listeners may find understandably just dressing. We've

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Speaker 1: also changed names to align with modern practices for protecting

411
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Speaker 1: the identities of victims of sexual offenses.

412
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Speaker 6: Fuck you, I'm telling you.

413
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Speaker 1: Jane is terrified. It's nearly midnight and an American soldier

414
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Speaker 1: has pushed her off a bicycle and dragged her into

415
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Speaker 1: the shadow of a hedge beside the road. The gi

416
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Speaker 1: is on top of Jane, now tearing at her uniform

417
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Speaker 1: and sexually assaulting her. Jane asks the stranger if he

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Speaker 1: will stop so that they can talk. The man agrees

419
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Speaker 1: and allows Jane to stand. She steps away from her

420
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Speaker 1: attacker and screams for help. The soldier tackles Jane once more,

421
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Speaker 1: dragging her to the ground, but her cries have finally

422
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Speaker 1: attracted the attention of some people nearby. Two other gis

423
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Speaker 1: smoking behind a head edge, rushed to her aid, scaring

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Speaker 1: the rapist away. He runs across a field in the

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Speaker 1: direction of his barracks. Officers from the camp soon arrive,

426
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Speaker 1: along with a local woman who tries to comfort Jane.

427
00:28:23,596 --> 00:28:28,476
Speaker 1: Jane's hair is twisted and turned, her army uniform is disarranged,

428
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Speaker 1: the stockings torn. You've had a nasty fry. Her cap

429
00:28:33,196 --> 00:28:36,156
Speaker 1: has come loose in the prolonged struggle against her attacker.

430
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Speaker 1: She asks her rescuers to help her find it. The

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00:28:39,996 --> 00:28:47,316
Speaker 1: witnesses describe her as upset and hysterical. Jane, a senior sergeant,

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00:28:47,396 --> 00:28:51,876
Speaker 1: will see her attacker again. She confidently picks him out

433
00:28:51,876 --> 00:28:55,036
Speaker 1: of a lineup of fifteen other men from his unit.

434
00:28:55,756 --> 00:28:58,396
Speaker 1: While many of those other men would later take part

435
00:28:58,436 --> 00:29:02,916
Speaker 1: in the D Day Invasion, celebrated forevermore as patriots and heroes,

436
00:29:03,756 --> 00:29:08,756
Speaker 1: John SIPs was tried, dishonorably discharged and sent to prison

437
00:29:09,276 --> 00:29:13,956
Speaker 1: to serve ten years hard labor. Tessa says that had

438
00:29:14,076 --> 00:29:18,236
Speaker 1: soaps ultimately succeeded in raping Jane, the abortion laws of

439
00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:21,156
Speaker 1: the day would have forced her to carry any baby

440
00:29:21,236 --> 00:29:22,356
Speaker 1: to full term.

441
00:29:22,556 --> 00:29:24,436
Speaker 5: Can you imagine if she was then burdened with an

442
00:29:24,436 --> 00:29:28,236
Speaker 5: illegitimate pregnancy, how even more torturous that process would have been.

443
00:29:28,916 --> 00:29:30,956
Speaker 5: She'd have had to have given up some baby in

444
00:29:30,996 --> 00:29:34,036
Speaker 5: some awful mother and children's home, which is where a

445
00:29:34,076 --> 00:29:35,436
Speaker 5: lot of these girls gave birth.

446
00:29:35,876 --> 00:29:39,236
Speaker 1: But what really strikes Tessa about Jane's case is neither

447
00:29:39,356 --> 00:29:43,556
Speaker 1: these cruel abortion laws nor the appalling brazenness of the

448
00:29:43,596 --> 00:29:49,156
Speaker 1: attack itself. Instead, she's surprised that Jane's attacker was actually convicted.

449
00:29:49,636 --> 00:29:53,916
Speaker 5: If you drill into the case, look what's required to

450
00:29:53,996 --> 00:29:59,836
Speaker 5: achieve that conviction. There are two witnesses, two uniformed male witnesses,

451
00:29:59,916 --> 00:30:02,076
Speaker 5: almost at the scene of the crime when it's happening,

452
00:30:02,076 --> 00:30:05,076
Speaker 5: who hear her plaintive cries and find her damaged bicycle.

453
00:30:05,396 --> 00:30:08,636
Speaker 5: And crucially, she's a sergeant major, so she's a woman

454
00:30:08,676 --> 00:30:11,596
Speaker 5: of rank and status within the ATS, so she's believed.

455
00:30:12,116 --> 00:30:14,076
Speaker 5: Not only is she believed, but she's found, you know,

456
00:30:14,396 --> 00:30:18,676
Speaker 5: sort of riped tights and derobed and scared. Just how

457
00:30:18,756 --> 00:30:21,236
Speaker 5: unlikely is it that you're going to be attacked in

458
00:30:21,316 --> 00:30:24,436
Speaker 5: earshot of two men serving in uniform. By the way, men,

459
00:30:24,476 --> 00:30:26,596
Speaker 5: of course more likely to be believed because men don't

460
00:30:26,596 --> 00:30:27,436
Speaker 5: gossip girls do.

461
00:30:28,316 --> 00:30:31,956
Speaker 1: Tessa says that many service women didn't even report rape

462
00:30:31,956 --> 00:30:36,356
Speaker 1: and sexual assault, either through shame, fear, or just through

463
00:30:36,396 --> 00:30:40,236
Speaker 1: the sense that there would wouldn't be believed. Such crimes

464
00:30:40,236 --> 00:30:44,756
Speaker 1: were prosecuted internally in the military so called khaki justice,

465
00:30:45,276 --> 00:30:49,316
Speaker 1: rather than in civilian courts. This could place criminal cases

466
00:30:49,476 --> 00:30:52,796
Speaker 1: in the hands of serving officers with little experience of

467
00:30:52,836 --> 00:30:57,356
Speaker 1: the law. Indeed, Tessa recounts the disturbing case of another

468
00:30:57,436 --> 00:31:00,996
Speaker 1: young woman who reported a rape to her somewhat clueless

469
00:31:01,036 --> 00:31:02,516
Speaker 1: female commander.

470
00:31:02,436 --> 00:31:06,116
Speaker 5: And the case falls apart because she didn't really understand

471
00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:08,596
Speaker 5: what the girl was talking about. She couldn't make a

472
00:31:08,596 --> 00:31:11,236
Speaker 5: property sc scription of what hi the girl seemed or

473
00:31:11,236 --> 00:31:14,956
Speaker 5: what she'd experienced. But she clearly doesn't know what intercourses,

474
00:31:15,236 --> 00:31:19,396
Speaker 5: and therefore indeed rape. You've got no idea how ignorant

475
00:31:19,876 --> 00:31:23,716
Speaker 5: some people were. I always remember my own grandmother saying

476
00:31:23,716 --> 00:31:25,716
Speaker 5: she thought that some couples you have had children simply

477
00:31:25,716 --> 00:31:26,476
Speaker 5: didn't know what to do.

478
00:31:27,236 --> 00:31:30,756
Speaker 1: So simple ignorance could up end a woman's chances of

479
00:31:30,836 --> 00:31:32,756
Speaker 1: seeing justice.

480
00:31:34,796 --> 00:31:36,356
Speaker 9: If you would have told me when I was like

481
00:31:36,436 --> 00:31:39,596
Speaker 9: twenty that I would be interested in this topic, I

482
00:31:39,636 --> 00:31:40,916
Speaker 9: would say no, not at all.

483
00:31:41,316 --> 00:31:45,076
Speaker 2: US Army veteran Kim d Fiori knows only too well

484
00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:47,996
Speaker 2: the pressure women in the military continued to face to

485
00:31:48,036 --> 00:31:51,676
Speaker 2: stay silent and conceal assaults from their commanders.

486
00:31:52,076 --> 00:31:55,716
Speaker 9: Generally speaking, they don't believe the victim anymore than salent,

487
00:31:55,916 --> 00:31:59,596
Speaker 9: especially if this silant's a higher rank, and so you

488
00:31:59,756 --> 00:32:02,356
Speaker 9: have that hurdle to go through and then say we

489
00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:05,476
Speaker 9: did make it to a court martial. The chances of

490
00:32:05,636 --> 00:32:10,276
Speaker 9: that person getting a conviction and getting a hefty sentence

491
00:32:10,836 --> 00:32:14,676
Speaker 9: is like point zero zero zero one percent. The chance

492
00:32:14,676 --> 00:32:17,476
Speaker 9: of them getting a light sentence is zero point eight percent.

493
00:32:17,996 --> 00:32:19,836
Speaker 9: So the stats are against you.

494
00:32:20,356 --> 00:32:23,236
Speaker 2: Kim is a West Point graduate and a career officer.

495
00:32:23,596 --> 00:32:27,516
Speaker 2: After serving a brutal deployment in Afghanistan, she returned to

496
00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:30,596
Speaker 2: what she thought was the safety of a base in Germany.

497
00:32:31,036 --> 00:32:33,196
Speaker 9: We're just happy to be alive. It was just a

498
00:32:33,316 --> 00:32:35,876
Speaker 9: very exciting time because we're like, hey, we made it

499
00:32:36,116 --> 00:32:39,316
Speaker 9: like through a combat tour. It was awesome, and so

500
00:32:39,396 --> 00:32:42,196
Speaker 9: we're out and the club was about two blocks from

501
00:32:42,196 --> 00:32:45,036
Speaker 9: where I lived. Like I was just walking home and

502
00:32:45,036 --> 00:32:47,036
Speaker 9: my other friends were like, you good to get home,

503
00:32:47,076 --> 00:32:49,276
Speaker 9: and I was like, yeah, I have two blocks. I'll

504
00:32:49,316 --> 00:32:52,076
Speaker 9: just walk that way. And one of the guys followed me,

505
00:32:52,156 --> 00:32:56,116
Speaker 9: and I just I was too drunk to really fight

506
00:32:56,196 --> 00:32:57,876
Speaker 9: him off. I just said like, no, I don't want

507
00:32:57,916 --> 00:33:01,716
Speaker 9: you here, and like I just kept saying no, no, no,

508
00:33:02,396 --> 00:33:04,996
Speaker 9: And then next thing I know, I'm waking up and

509
00:33:05,436 --> 00:33:09,116
Speaker 9: the next morning he's gone, and I just like couldn't

510
00:33:09,196 --> 00:33:12,396
Speaker 9: get out of bed, and it was just this horrible

511
00:33:13,516 --> 00:33:16,796
Speaker 9: new reality to wake up to. And until you've been

512
00:33:16,836 --> 00:33:20,236
Speaker 9: through it, you can't really empathize with the victims of

513
00:33:20,356 --> 00:33:24,076
Speaker 9: like waking up that next day and that next week

514
00:33:24,156 --> 00:33:27,596
Speaker 9: and just seeing like that that cloud that's just over you,

515
00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:28,476
Speaker 9: and you're just like.

516
00:33:29,116 --> 00:33:29,876
Speaker 6: What do I do?

517
00:33:29,996 --> 00:33:34,396
Speaker 9: Because I know the system and it's not gonna work

518
00:33:34,396 --> 00:33:35,036
Speaker 9: in my favor.

519
00:33:35,516 --> 00:33:38,476
Speaker 2: As a captain herself, Kim would have been expected to

520
00:33:38,556 --> 00:33:41,516
Speaker 2: deal with allegations of rape or sexual assault brought to

521
00:33:41,556 --> 00:33:44,876
Speaker 2: her by her troops, but she didn't formally report her

522
00:33:44,916 --> 00:33:45,556
Speaker 2: own rape.

523
00:33:45,956 --> 00:33:48,916
Speaker 9: And when I was telling people, I guess they assumed

524
00:33:48,916 --> 00:33:52,756
Speaker 9: that I had reported it. But there was just such

525
00:33:52,796 --> 00:33:55,396
Speaker 9: a matter of fact about it. It was like saying, like,

526
00:33:55,876 --> 00:33:59,396
Speaker 9: I got shot at Afghanistan and it wasn't like, oh, yeah,

527
00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:01,716
Speaker 9: that's really bad. I must have been traumatic. Like it

528
00:34:01,756 --> 00:34:04,596
Speaker 9: took me forever to even use the word like sexual

529
00:34:04,636 --> 00:34:08,796
Speaker 9: assault or rape or military sexual trauma anything like that,

530
00:34:08,836 --> 00:34:10,596
Speaker 9: because is there so much blame on me?

531
00:34:11,756 --> 00:34:16,316
Speaker 2: But it was traumatic, and that trauma ended Kim's Army career.

532
00:34:16,996 --> 00:34:19,396
Speaker 2: She's now an author and an advocate for reform when

533
00:34:19,436 --> 00:34:22,116
Speaker 2: it comes to the way the military deals with sexual assault.

534
00:34:22,956 --> 00:34:24,676
Speaker 2: We asked her to look at some of the cases

535
00:34:24,716 --> 00:34:27,436
Speaker 2: from World War Two that we'd identified in the files.

536
00:34:28,036 --> 00:34:30,556
Speaker 2: Was she at all surprised reading them?

537
00:34:30,996 --> 00:34:33,356
Speaker 9: If you would have asked me at eighteen, yes, but

538
00:34:33,556 --> 00:34:38,636
Speaker 9: after being in the military for thirteen years, not at all.

539
00:34:39,356 --> 00:34:41,756
Speaker 9: It's such a prevalent problem.

540
00:34:42,076 --> 00:34:45,316
Speaker 2: The victim blaming attitudes inherent in some of the stories,

541
00:34:45,716 --> 00:34:49,476
Speaker 2: like that of the jitterbugging Private Louisa Price, reminded Kim

542
00:34:49,556 --> 00:34:52,116
Speaker 2: of warning she was given as a young Army cadet.

543
00:34:52,316 --> 00:34:55,356
Speaker 9: I remember getting up briefing at West Points about two

544
00:34:55,436 --> 00:35:02,956
Speaker 9: thousand and five, and the central message around sexual assault was, hey, females,

545
00:35:02,996 --> 00:35:04,836
Speaker 9: be careful what you wear because you don't want to

546
00:35:04,836 --> 00:35:08,596
Speaker 9: be asking for trouble. It just cringes me to this day.

547
00:35:08,916 --> 00:35:11,716
Speaker 9: And so that's the reality of it is you still

548
00:35:11,756 --> 00:35:16,156
Speaker 9: have messages like that saying don't ask for it, rather

549
00:35:16,196 --> 00:35:19,596
Speaker 9: than putting the onus on, hey, let's get rid of rapists.

550
00:35:20,516 --> 00:35:24,076
Speaker 2: Kim argues that war further clouds our judgment about rape

551
00:35:24,396 --> 00:35:27,236
Speaker 2: and the men who perpetrate it. We celebrate those who

552
00:35:27,316 --> 00:35:30,996
Speaker 2: show courage in battle or who are charismatic leaders, and

553
00:35:31,036 --> 00:35:33,676
Speaker 2: we struggle to conceive that they might not behave so

554
00:35:33,836 --> 00:35:35,636
Speaker 2: nobly in other situations.

555
00:35:36,796 --> 00:35:39,636
Speaker 9: You can be a really good leader and also be

556
00:35:39,716 --> 00:35:40,316
Speaker 9: a rapist.

557
00:35:40,636 --> 00:35:43,676
Speaker 2: This bias can even make its way into the rape

558
00:35:43,676 --> 00:35:46,156
Speaker 2: cases that do reach the military courts.

559
00:35:46,596 --> 00:35:49,676
Speaker 9: You're allowed to present in your defense like a good

560
00:35:49,756 --> 00:35:53,756
Speaker 9: soldier defense saying basically like, oh, this person can't be

561
00:35:53,796 --> 00:35:57,156
Speaker 9: that bad of a person because they deploy direct three times.

562
00:35:57,396 --> 00:36:00,236
Speaker 2: Such hero defenses crop up in the World War II

563
00:36:00,396 --> 00:36:04,036
Speaker 2: archives as well. In one case, a soldier who had

564
00:36:04,076 --> 00:36:07,196
Speaker 2: launched a terrifying assault on a woman was given just

565
00:36:07,236 --> 00:36:10,196
Speaker 2: a mine of fine after his superiors told the court

566
00:36:10,236 --> 00:36:14,036
Speaker 2: that he'd shown heroism in battle. The man quickly went

567
00:36:14,076 --> 00:36:18,236
Speaker 2: on to commit other sexual offenses until he was finally jailed.

568
00:36:19,116 --> 00:36:22,116
Speaker 2: Reflecting on the experiences of women in World War II,

569
00:36:22,796 --> 00:36:27,236
Speaker 2: Kim recognizes patterns that haven't changed, the tendency to excuse

570
00:36:27,276 --> 00:36:31,036
Speaker 2: attackers and blame victims, the conflict of interest inherent in

571
00:36:31,076 --> 00:36:34,916
Speaker 2: allowing an organization to investigate its own members, and the

572
00:36:34,956 --> 00:36:38,116
Speaker 2: owners placed on women to change their behavior in the

573
00:36:38,156 --> 00:36:42,476
Speaker 2: face of male violence. Kim also points out that men

574
00:36:42,556 --> 00:36:46,796
Speaker 2: too are victims of sexual coercion and violence in the military.

575
00:36:46,956 --> 00:36:49,516
Speaker 2: This was as true of World War II as it

576
00:36:49,596 --> 00:36:55,076
Speaker 2: is today. Kim certainly doesn't criticize those aging female veterans

577
00:36:55,076 --> 00:36:58,396
Speaker 2: who shy away from speaking about the harassment, abuse, and

578
00:36:58,476 --> 00:37:02,316
Speaker 2: violence they endured, but she implores the rest of us

579
00:37:02,356 --> 00:37:05,076
Speaker 2: to pay attention to the voices in the private letters

580
00:37:05,076 --> 00:37:07,996
Speaker 2: and army files from that time and to heed what

581
00:37:08,116 --> 00:37:11,916
Speaker 2: those women so long dismissed have to say.

582
00:37:12,716 --> 00:37:14,916
Speaker 9: It's a hard topic to discuss, so it does a

583
00:37:14,956 --> 00:37:18,436
Speaker 9: lot of good talking about it, even if it is uncomfortable,

584
00:37:18,476 --> 00:37:20,676
Speaker 9: and I'll tell you it's uncomfortable for all of us.

585
00:37:21,276 --> 00:37:24,756
Speaker 9: But it needs to be a very talked about discussion,

586
00:37:25,396 --> 00:37:28,636
Speaker 9: just like anything else, because that's how we change cultures.

587
00:37:37,236 --> 00:37:40,076
Speaker 1: In the next episode of Bad Women, we'll return to

588
00:37:40,156 --> 00:37:44,556
Speaker 1: London's West End to meet the enigmatic Margaret Lowe, a

589
00:37:44,716 --> 00:37:48,596
Speaker 1: refined woman known on the streets of Piccadilly simply as

590
00:37:49,076 --> 00:37:53,956
Speaker 1: the Lady, will trace her complicated story and meet the

591
00:37:54,036 --> 00:38:03,436
Speaker 1: violent men who seek her out. If you want to

592
00:38:03,476 --> 00:38:07,316
Speaker 1: learn more about Patricia and gene Outram's wartime experiences, then

593
00:38:07,396 --> 00:38:11,516
Speaker 1: we recommend you read their fascinating book, Codebreaking Sisters, Our

594
00:38:11,676 --> 00:38:22,076
Speaker 1: Secret War Bad Women. The Blackout Ripper is hosted by

595
00:38:22,116 --> 00:38:25,956
Speaker 1: me Halle Rubinholt and me Alice Fines. It was written

596
00:38:25,956 --> 00:38:28,916
Speaker 1: and produced by Alice Fines and Ryan Dilley, with additional

597
00:38:28,956 --> 00:38:32,916
Speaker 1: support from Courtney Garino and Arthur Gomberts. Kate Healy of

598
00:38:32,996 --> 00:38:36,076
Speaker 1: Oakwood Family Trees aided us with genealogical research.

599
00:38:36,716 --> 00:38:39,876
Speaker 2: Pascal Wise Sound designed and mixed the show and composed

600
00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:42,996
Speaker 2: all the original music. The show was recorded at Ardoor

601
00:38:43,076 --> 00:38:46,636
Speaker 2: Studios by David Smith and Tom Berry. You also heard

602
00:38:46,636 --> 00:38:50,596
Speaker 2: the voice talents of Ben Crow, David Glover, Melanie Gutridge,

603
00:38:50,716 --> 00:38:54,476
Speaker 2: Stella Harford, Gemma Saunders and Rufus Wright. Much of the

604
00:38:54,556 --> 00:38:57,956
Speaker 2: music you heard was performed by Ed Gocken, Ross Hughes,

605
00:38:58,156 --> 00:39:01,476
Speaker 2: Christian Miller and Marcus Penrose. They were recorded by Nick

606
00:39:01,516 --> 00:39:05,276
Speaker 2: Taylor Porcupine Studios. Pushkin's Ben Holiday mixed the.

607
00:39:05,276 --> 00:39:09,076
Speaker 1: Tracks and you heard additional piano playing by the grit

608
00:39:09,556 --> 00:39:13,636
Speaker 1: Berry wise Hi Berry. The show also wouldn't have been

609
00:39:13,676 --> 00:39:17,796
Speaker 1: possible without the work of Jacob Weisberg, Heather Fane, Carl Migliori,

610
00:39:18,316 --> 00:39:23,596
Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Nicole Morano, Eric Sandler, and Daniela Lukhan. We'd

611
00:39:23,636 --> 00:39:26,436
Speaker 1: also like to thank Michael Buchanan Dunn of the Murder

612
00:39:26,516 --> 00:39:31,156
Speaker 1: Mile podcast, Lizzie Mckerroll, Katherine Walker at the Royal Pharmaceutical

613
00:39:31,236 --> 00:39:35,636
Speaker 1: Society and the Earbe Historical Society. Bad Women is a

614
00:39:35,636 --> 00:39:39,236
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries. Please rate and review the show

615
00:39:39,476 --> 00:39:41,916
Speaker 1: and spread the word about what we do, and thanks

616
00:39:41,996 --> 00:39:42,476
Speaker 1: for listening.

617
00:40:12,196 --> 00:40:39,996
Speaker 6: The others.

618
00:41:21,396 --> 00:41:34,716
Speaker 8: My company with the then Tao than anybody

619
00:41:45,036 --> 00:41:45,076
Speaker 9: Le