Speaker 1: Welcome NFL Dailey, where we cannot believe the season is
Speaker 1: over one week from right now, I'm Greg Rosenthal in
Speaker 1: my garage talking to my friend Jordan rod Riegue of
Speaker 1: the Athletic and setting up what is gonna be an
Speaker 1: awesome week. We are not heading down to New Orleans,
Speaker 1: Jordan until Tuesday, so we'll have some fun today. We
Speaker 1: got some news, we got some all pros to talk about,
Speaker 1: and we'll have fun tonight as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're not heading down to New Orleans yet, because
Speaker 2: we have a very good cause to champion. Tonight, you
Speaker 2: me a couple of big time guests on the live
Speaker 2: taping of the Menachimes, and to be clear, other people
Speaker 2: are the big time guests. It's you me and then
Speaker 2: the big time guests on the MENA Times show featuring
Speaker 2: Lenny at the Belasco, which I still cannot freaking believe
Speaker 2: that we are getting to be on that stage, and
Speaker 2: Kobe Turner is going to take the stage at the
Speaker 2: Belasco all for wildfire relief efforts. Of the funds raised
Speaker 2: tonight this is it will be Monday Night in Los
Speaker 2: Angeles will go to fire relief efforts and Omaha Productions
Speaker 2: is matching all of it too, which is really rock star.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also a Kobe Turner jersey which which the
Speaker 1: NFL has chipped in, which is a game warn jersey
Speaker 1: from the playoff appear. And so yeah, if you're hearing
Speaker 1: this on Monday, it is not too late to head
Speaker 1: downtown little foggy here in Los Angeles on Monday, stay warm,
Speaker 1: come with us, have fun. It'll be outstanding, And this
Speaker 1: show's gonna be fun too. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: all the coordinator hires, but we're gonna do it quickly, Jordan,
Speaker 1: because the two of us like to honk. So I'm
Speaker 1: putting a clock on that, and then we're gonna go
Speaker 1: back and we're gonna make our all pro teams because
Speaker 1: I want a document at the beginning of the year
Speaker 1: we set up our ideal roster, and I want a
Speaker 1: document that that shows us who the best players of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five are. Why are you laughing?
Speaker 2: It was like such a stressful show in the best way,
Speaker 2: because we were like, this is the platonically ideal roster. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then like each of us like forgot a player or
Speaker 2: then like counted wrong, and then we did great. We
Speaker 2: defined everything's good. That document exists in the ether.
Speaker 1: Now, yes, no, I have it. I have it. This
Speaker 1: will be a little more straight in arrow. Our All
Speaker 1: Pro Team, the official NFL Daily All Pro Team, and
Speaker 1: our award winners NFL Honors is coming up Thursday night,
Speaker 1: so we talk about it all season long. I did
Speaker 1: want to close that circle too and give you our
Speaker 1: award winners, and we're gonna have to come to an agreement,
Speaker 1: which I really like. But we have to start the
Speaker 1: show talking about Miles Garrett. Monday morning, Miles Garrett sees
Speaker 1: Luka Doncic traded to the Lakers. The next day it's
Speaker 1: Darren Fox is going with Wemby and san Antonio, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, man, this NBA trade deadline is going to
Speaker 1: dominate the whole lead up to the Super Bowl, and
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett, He's got our back. He releases a statement
Speaker 1: through Ian Rappaport that's at least where I saw it
Speaker 1: first on Monday morning that he wants to be traded
Speaker 1: from the Cleveland Browns, saying that his goal in his
Speaker 1: career was not to go from Cleveland to Canton. It
Speaker 1: is to win championships along the way, and he wants
Speaker 1: to do that somewhere other than the Browns. A lot
Speaker 1: of directions we can go here, Jordan, but do you
Speaker 1: think it's realistic that it actually happens for some context
Speaker 1: the Browns GM. Andrew Barry said just last week maybe
Speaker 1: he says this was coming, that we do not plan
Speaker 1: to trade Miles Garrett, we do not want to trade
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett, and that he could have a contract coming
Speaker 1: up in his future. Miles Garrett apparently does not want
Speaker 1: that contract, at least not right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to peel back the curtain a little bit too,
Speaker 2: something like this does come up to a general manager
Speaker 2: when local reporters, people on the beat, the beat reporters
Speaker 2: there in Cleveland, catch a whiff of some unsettling situation
Speaker 2: and then take the opportunity. The first time they'll really
Speaker 2: get an availability with the GM all off season is
Speaker 2: at the Senior Bowl. And this is where this conversation
Speaker 2: took place, where he was asked, including by my colleague
Speaker 2: Zach Jackson, about whether or not they would ever consider
Speaker 2: trading Miles Garrett and even if there were two first
Speaker 2: round picks on the table. And Andrew Barry said, no,
Speaker 2: we're not doing it.
Speaker 1: Well, wow, I wouldn't know that that they even gave
Speaker 1: him the two first h.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was Zach, my colleague at the Athletic
Speaker 2: and so it was that's the context of why that
Speaker 2: bubbled up. And so now as a response or a reaction,
Speaker 2: Miles Garrett and his camp clearly have had this planned
Speaker 2: or in the works, and then I think release a
Speaker 2: very nice statement about what this means and what this
Speaker 2: really is for him and requesting a trade and alerting
Speaker 2: the team. Now, it could get not nice in a hurry. Greg,
Speaker 2: And that's where I think you have to be really
Speaker 2: careful if you're the because if your star player and
Speaker 2: one of the faces of the NFL, one of the
Speaker 2: best players pass rushers we've ever seen, is going to
Speaker 2: get contentious in this or going to be like stay
Speaker 2: in this path and be adamant about this. Like if
Speaker 2: it's not just a I need you to change these
Speaker 2: things or else I'm going sort of a veiled threat.
Speaker 2: If it's a real legitimate thing, then this could get
Speaker 2: messy in a hurry, and the next few weeks are
Speaker 2: going to be absolutely nuts.
Speaker 1: Well, him releasing the statement that clearly I think puts
Speaker 1: it past that point where it's messy. He's putting it
Speaker 1: out this week because he knows this is the time
Speaker 1: of year big trades could potentially happen, is really leading
Speaker 1: into the free agency period. And we've seen quarterbacks get
Speaker 1: traded during this week or agreed to chants during this week. Yes,
Speaker 1: Stafford Cousins, And so Garrett's that level of player and
Speaker 1: that the trade is big enough that it could take
Speaker 1: a month to get going and it will be a
Speaker 1: talking point unless something changes until free agency starts. Now.
Speaker 1: I think it could be very difficult for the Browns
Speaker 1: to do it because it does not help them financially.
Speaker 1: If they traded him, they would actually take a cap
Speaker 1: hit this year in addition to the dead money to
Speaker 1: trade him away. And yeah, you're taking that short term
Speaker 1: pain now, but it's getting rid of a player you're
Speaker 1: not planning to get rid of because they just renegotiated
Speaker 1: his contract in part because of the Deshaun Watson mess
Speaker 1: right before the twenty twenty three season, So it'd be
Speaker 1: painful to let him go. If they traded him after
Speaker 1: June first, they would actually get a little bit of
Speaker 1: caper leaf, like five million dollars in capperleaf, and they
Speaker 1: could spread the hits out, but again, you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett, and that timeline probably doesn't work for the
Speaker 1: other teams out there. They're one of the teams that
Speaker 1: does not have any cap room. Now, you can always
Speaker 1: make room, and the Watson contract has some insurance loopholes
Speaker 1: that I do want to even get into, and there's
Speaker 1: other contracts. They're going to be able to move their
Speaker 1: contracts around. But they are not a team that has
Speaker 1: a ton of space to suddenly get worse, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if they're really having an appetite to get worse.
Speaker 1: So their solution might be to just offer Miles Garrett
Speaker 1: a ton of money, even more money, make him the
Speaker 1: highest paid defensive player in the league. Again, that's to
Speaker 1: me question number one, because I have to imagine they'll
Speaker 1: do that because I don't think they will want to
Speaker 1: trade him. Maybe you disagree, because there is an argument,
Speaker 1: Jordan that actually this is the perfect time to trade him.
Speaker 1: He's been there seven years. It's not like they haven't
Speaker 1: gotten amazing value at him. He is still playing as
Speaker 1: a Defensive Player of the Year level. I think he
Speaker 1: might win the award this week. If he doesn't, he's
Speaker 1: one of the finalists, he'll be in the top couple.
Speaker 1: But he is about to turn thirty next year, and
Speaker 1: his value is so high right now that what could
Speaker 1: you get for him? Could you get a first plus?
Speaker 1: Could you get two first for him? If you're a
Speaker 1: Browns team that's probably not contending this year, you have
Speaker 1: to at least think about it, because are you gonna
Speaker 1: be good by the time Miles Garrett, you know, starts aging.
Speaker 1: Are you gonna be good in the in the meant him?
Speaker 1: Probably not? So if you're getting possibly two first for
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett, maybe you do think about it. Where would
Speaker 1: you like to see him possibly go? Or do you
Speaker 1: have any any ones you just want to throw out there?
Speaker 2: Uh? Well, I wanted to get further back in your
Speaker 2: sentence there and address another point that you made where
Speaker 2: it to me it is organizational malpractice the way that
Speaker 2: they've had this guy on their roster and have not
Speaker 2: maximized the roster and in fact done quite the opposite.
Speaker 2: This one move of going out and acquiring Deshaun Watson
Speaker 2: and using the picks that they did, only for him
Speaker 2: to just be a bad football player. And that's not
Speaker 2: even touching the entire rest of the mess surrounding Deshaun Watson,
Speaker 2: but just to be a bad football player and to
Speaker 2: creator the potential of that roster and to creator the
Speaker 2: potential of a player of that caliber where you're supposed
Speaker 2: to be the franchise face and instead the only conversation
Speaker 2: around your team as a brand is this mess that
Speaker 2: they've made. So I think this is multi layer. If
Speaker 2: I'm Miles Garrett, It's like You're supposed to be the
Speaker 2: cornerstone and the face of this organization and instead everything
Speaker 2: else around this team has only been a plummeting your
Speaker 2: potential and be plummeting you as a brand, because that's
Speaker 2: all anyone wants to talk about. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that's the most important thing, but it's like, you want
Speaker 2: to go somewhere where you are going to be a
Speaker 2: valued in the sense that a team is going to
Speaker 2: win with you and around you, and also you know
Speaker 2: you got you want to go win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: And he said that as plainly as he possibly could
Speaker 2: in his statement. And I don't see any aspect of
Speaker 2: this Brown's roster with the mess that they've created over
Speaker 2: the next couple of years that is capable or even
Speaker 2: possible of contending for a deep postseason run, let alone
Speaker 2: the super Bowl. And so I think when you're looking
Speaker 2: at a couple of teams that might have interest and
Speaker 2: might do whatever it takes, because this is gonna be
Speaker 2: a whatever it takes trade, Like if he's available, if
Speaker 2: they're actually answering your phone call, because they've been adamant
Speaker 2: that they won't. If they're actually answering your phone call,
Speaker 2: you do whatever you can. You shake out every mattress,
Speaker 2: you shake out, You shake out every mattress you have,
Speaker 2: You look under the cushions of every sofa in the building,
Speaker 2: and you shake down whatever you can to get this
Speaker 2: guy in your building. And so I think it's a
Speaker 2: it's a Buffalo bills question. Honestly, I think that, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm not going to rule out. I think
Speaker 2: it could be a Kansas City chiefs question. I know,
Speaker 2: I know it's a but, but it's true.
Speaker 1: It is without a ton of cap room. The bills
Speaker 1: actually are thirteen million dollars over the cap as we
Speaker 1: speak now. There of course, like every teams around that,
Speaker 1: you can always vond Miller. They're going to restructure Josh Allen.
Speaker 1: There's other people that they can cut, but there are
Speaker 1: other teams that can do it more easily than the
Speaker 1: Bills for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the San Francisco forty nine ers I see as
Speaker 2: a team. And by the way, I want to point
Speaker 2: out I mentioned this to you and Mina the other day,
Speaker 2: is I don't think the Raiders think that they're gonna
Speaker 2: like take like seven years to build up this roster.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna with Pete Carroll on the three
Speaker 2: year deal. I think they're going to make some moves
Speaker 2: this offseason. And so I think that that should be
Speaker 2: on the table. Detroit should be on the table for
Speaker 2: a possible Miles Garrett trade. Really, it's easier to ask
Speaker 2: like who would never do it? Right? And that's yeah,
Speaker 2: because there's it's Miles freaking Garrett. What are you doing Cleveland?
Speaker 1: God, well, they're they're probably not doing anything or they're
Speaker 1: not trying to do anything. But I tried to think
Speaker 1: of historical precedence for these types of moves, just to
Speaker 1: think about.
Speaker 2: You mean the NBA one that happened three days.
Speaker 1: No, I mean that one. That is why level that
Speaker 1: was wild that there is no precedent for that in
Speaker 1: the NFL. Let's be real. The closest I could come
Speaker 1: up with was if you sort of combined the two
Speaker 1: Khalil Mac trades and made it in between, because the
Speaker 1: first Khalil mactrade, he's not as he wasn't as good
Speaker 1: a player as Garrett, but after four years, the way
Speaker 1: people thought about him, he wasn't on a totally different planet,
Speaker 1: and that was that was a crazy deal to first
Speaker 1: more a ton of seconds more than that. If that
Speaker 1: was after four years in the league, twenty five year old,
Speaker 1: that's a little different. And then the next Khalil Mac
Speaker 1: trade is actually where closer to where Garrett is, but
Speaker 1: at that point Mack was not nearly the same player
Speaker 1: that was after eight years in the league, and there
Speaker 1: was much less return. Richard Seymour got traded around the
Speaker 1: same age after eight years in the league, future Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer, but had even maybe just started his downturn,
Speaker 1: which Garrett hasn't. They got they got a top fifteen
Speaker 1: pick for Richard Seymour. John Abraham was a trade where
Speaker 1: they got a first four. Jared Allen. People forget that
Speaker 1: was a blockbuster trade from the Chiefs to the Vikings
Speaker 1: where they got a first, a couple of thirds and
Speaker 1: again they were a little younger. I think the fact
Speaker 1: that Garrett is better than all these players maybe makes
Speaker 1: up for the fact that he's a little older than
Speaker 1: most of them. And if if Richard Seymour at around
Speaker 1: the same age as getting a first round pick. And
Speaker 1: I know this is twenty years ago, the league has changed,
Speaker 1: but you just said it. It's Miles freaking Garrett. And
Speaker 1: Mike Tannenbaum, who was running a team and was just
Speaker 1: helping the team hire a coach. He was on get
Speaker 1: up this year, saying at the trade deadline he would
Speaker 1: give up like three first three seconds, literally everything if
Speaker 1: he was the Lions to do it. And I don't
Speaker 1: think it's going to cost that, but I think a
Speaker 1: couple teams could be willing to. Some came to mind.
Speaker 1: The Raiders, I agree with. They have ninety million in
Speaker 1: cap space and the Patriots have one hundred and thirty.
Speaker 1: And Mike Rabel was in Cleveland's building last year. But
Speaker 1: if he wants to win a championship, how does that
Speaker 1: make any sense? If you're Miles Garrett, it doesn't to me.
Speaker 1: So I thought Commanders are up there with an insane
Speaker 1: amount of cap space. The Lions have a ton of
Speaker 1: cap space, and they've shown that they'll be aggressive. This
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a Packers move, but they have plenty
Speaker 1: of space. The Chargers, I think are gonna be very
Speaker 1: much in go now mode and they have a boatload
Speaker 1: of cap space. And I don't know if Khalil Mack
Speaker 1: or Joey Bosa is on that team. Yeah next year,
Speaker 1: so that that's a possibility. The Bills come to mind.
Speaker 1: They made that move for von Miller didn't really work out.
Speaker 1: They would be a little tougher financially to make it
Speaker 1: all work because I think if you're trading for him,
Speaker 1: you're probably you're giving them a new contract too. So
Speaker 1: you're right though that there's almost more teams because when
Speaker 1: you look at the cap space, as it's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite things I just repeat every there's there's way
Speaker 1: too much cap space out there. I mean, there's like
Speaker 1: fifteen teams with more than forty million dollars in cap space.
Speaker 1: There's seven or eight teams with over sixty. Like, what
Speaker 1: are you gonna do with all that cap space? There's
Speaker 1: not enough good players out there. You don't have enough
Speaker 1: good players on your team, so someone should back up
Speaker 1: the brinks track, make Andrew Berry say no.
Speaker 2: And the little known fact, very little known fact about
Speaker 2: the way that the spending stipulations work in the NFL.
Speaker 2: Every three years you have to hit a minimum spending threshold.
Speaker 2: So yes to your point, Greg, every team that has money,
Speaker 2: go get him, get him out of there. We want
Speaker 2: good things for Miles Garrett. We may never see another
Speaker 2: player like him, and he's just excellent. He is joy
Speaker 2: Go bring him. That's why I like the Commanders because
Speaker 2: I'm like, I was thinking about this obviously, just from
Speaker 2: you know, what would make me really happy to see
Speaker 2: Miles Garrett and Dan Quinn and Jada Daniels and how
Speaker 2: much fun they would all have. See Miles Garrett in
Speaker 2: front of my player, Frankie Luvu just wrecking stuff with
Speaker 2: Jeremy Chin behind him. I mean, my god, that would
Speaker 2: be impeccable, impeccable vibes all around.
Speaker 1: They have seventy eight million dollars in cap space, they
Speaker 1: have Jaden and Daniels a quarterback on the books for
Speaker 1: cheap for the next few years. Them, the Chargers and
Speaker 1: the Lions felt the most realistic of teams that would
Speaker 1: actually do it and have the space and make sense
Speaker 1: the forty nine ers would be in that mix as
Speaker 1: well for me. But I really don't think the Browns
Speaker 1: are going to want to. If nothing else, all they've
Speaker 1: had over the last twenty years other than that one
Speaker 1: playoff win, which was with Kevin Stefanski, you know, is
Speaker 1: Joe Thomas in Miles Garrett, and Miles Garrett doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be the next Joe Thomas. But I think the
Speaker 1: Browns are, like, we have an all time great. Our
Speaker 1: fans are gonna desert us. They're gonna start bringing coffins
Speaker 1: to the arena like Mavericks fans were doing after the
Speaker 1: Luca trade.
Speaker 2: Last question, Greg, Yeah, so the breg The Browns do not,
Speaker 2: said the Briggs. The Browns do not want to do this.
Speaker 2: They've made that clear. Obviously, that will only up the
Speaker 2: asking price. If you're the Browns and someone puts a
Speaker 2: quarterback on the table, a starting caliber, quality quarterback on
Speaker 2: the table, do you make the move?
Speaker 1: Oh, just thinking out loud, I think about it, because yes,
Speaker 1: because Garrett wants out, and because of what I said
Speaker 1: about the perfect time of it all hit the combination
Speaker 1: of his eight he will get worse at some point
Speaker 1: and he has to be at the tail end of
Speaker 1: his prime. He hasn't shown anything. But if you could
Speaker 1: get a quarterback plus, that's the reason why Miles Garrett
Speaker 1: wants to leave. Now he might be like, you haven't
Speaker 1: had a quarterback this whole time. Now, who would that be?
Speaker 1: You know, Matthew Stafford obviously comes to mind. Like a
Speaker 1: Sam Darnold plus a first round pick. You know, it
Speaker 1: starts getting interesting. I think if you're the Browns, yes,
Speaker 1: if you can and you're not in love with Shedur
Speaker 1: Sanders or cam Ward especially, that you could plug a
Speaker 1: couple holes, not give up. You know, you'd have your
Speaker 1: number two overall pick and maybe get better fast. I like,
Speaker 1: I like where you're going. That's pretty good. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk. Let's talk about the coaches. I coordinator hires
Speaker 1: are the new coaching hires now that you know, we're
Speaker 1: still waiting for the Saints to actually happen, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of interesting What we're putting
Speaker 1: the clock on Chris is behind the wall here, Chris,
Speaker 1: he's putting a silent clock on us. I'm limiting this
Speaker 1: to ten minutes, and it could be less. If we
Speaker 1: can go less. That's great, we can get to the
Speaker 1: All pros even sooner. But ten minutes max. We'll get
Speaker 1: a warning and a little ticking time bomb at one minute.
Speaker 1: So let's start with the Raiders. Start the clock. Chip
Speaker 1: Kelly is the Raiders offensive coordinator. How cool is this?
Speaker 1: I talk about like making more fun for fans. This
Speaker 1: is cool.
Speaker 2: It's Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll guys like it just
Speaker 2: doesn't get any Just like, wait, what mad libs than that?
Speaker 2: I love it. I think that's gonna be fun. Obviously,
Speaker 2: they need so many things. They need a quarterback, they
Speaker 2: need a second pass catcher outside of Brock Bowers. They
Speaker 2: need to revamp this historically bad run game, all of
Speaker 2: these things that Chip Kelly has this really tall task
Speaker 2: ahead of him now. But man, just some paper alone.
Speaker 2: I just like the look of that.
Speaker 1: They're a little like the Giants to me, where I
Speaker 1: don't think there is quite as far away on offense
Speaker 1: as people think. I don't think their offensive line is
Speaker 1: that bad. They do have Jacoby Myers and Michael Meyer,
Speaker 1: who are great role players. You just need your right
Speaker 1: another receiver in that do she.
Speaker 2: Had raph Bowers? You make him the thing that everything
Speaker 2: goes through. I could totally see Chip Kelly doing that,
Speaker 2: making him sort of the joker player on offense that
Speaker 2: everything the entire offense goes through would be a Chip
Speaker 2: Kelly move.
Speaker 1: And he's an offensive coordinator instead of him as a
Speaker 1: head coach. He's been out of the league. It just
Speaker 1: shows how coaching like he comes so quickly. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: any NFL team could have hired Chip Kelly, probably out
Speaker 1: of UCLA if they really want to do for a while.
Speaker 1: And he has a hot year with with Ohio State,
Speaker 1: and even Ohio State had some some ups and downs,
Speaker 1: but I love it from Carroll's perspective, didn't go with
Speaker 1: Darryl Bevell, didn't go with his old guys. I like
Speaker 1: a lot of the moves they've made. They kept Patrick Graham,
Speaker 1: we hadn't talked about that, They kept their special teams coordinator.
Speaker 1: So he's picking and choosing who makes sense. But he's
Speaker 1: also willing to take a chance. The reporting from your
Speaker 1: friend to Sean Reid, who hopefully will see tonight down
Speaker 1: at the show, is that John Spytech, the you know,
Speaker 1: the the GM is helping them along the way with
Speaker 1: these coaching hires. And the thing that really struck me
Speaker 1: before we move on from this. They're paying Chip Kelly
Speaker 1: six million dollars. He is making more money than some
Speaker 1: head coaches in the league. While Jerry Jones doesn't want
Speaker 1: to pay one single year of a coach like out
Speaker 1: of his contract, Mark Davis is paying for like four
Speaker 1: different staffs. He's probably still paying Josh McDaniels, like Patrick
Speaker 1: Graham's still there, probably on his Josh McDaniels contract. Shout
Speaker 1: out to Patrick Graham. He's that good that he's survived
Speaker 1: all these firings. But they're paying six million dollars to
Speaker 1: Chip Kelly. I thought that was if you're a Raiders fan,
Speaker 1: I think you'd love to hear that. You'll have to
Speaker 1: see it. You're like, move on or else we're never
Speaker 1: gonna have time. Let's go to the Jets. Tanner Engstrom
Speaker 1: better Engstrand. Tanner and Strand got to get used to that.
Speaker 2: He had a real tough time listeners. He had a
Speaker 2: real tough time with this.
Speaker 1: I was going to bring that up on my email,
Speaker 1: which I was dedicated. I was watching my son at
Speaker 1: his sporting event on Sunday. I'm outside, you know, sending
Speaker 1: show notes. I spelled it Augstrand. I didn't know this guy.
Speaker 1: Who knows this guy, he's like twenty eight years old.
Speaker 1: That they hired him and Scott Turner as a passing
Speaker 1: game coordinator too. I kind of like that combination. And
Speaker 1: they kept their wide receivers coach Sean Jefferson, who's one
Speaker 1: of the best in the business.
Speaker 2: I like that Tanner Engstrom. Engstrand was with the Lions
Speaker 2: since twenty twenty, so he was there alongside Ben Johnson
Speaker 2: and spent a lot of time with Ben Johnson as
Speaker 2: his assistant when Ben Johnson was coaching tight ends and
Speaker 2: then moving up into OC and then Ben Johnson promoted
Speaker 2: Tanner into a more prominent role as well as coaching
Speaker 2: tight ends in Detroit. So he's he understands like how
Speaker 2: to run pieces of this offense. He understands what it
Speaker 2: takes what it looks like to be a really, really
Speaker 2: good offensive coordinator. And I like Scott Turner. I think
Speaker 2: everywhere Scott Turner has been, where he hasn't been scapegoaded,
Speaker 2: he's been a really solid mind and a really solid
Speaker 2: presence to have in the room. I've known Scott Turner
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I just think he's a
Speaker 2: good fit over there. I think it's good vibes over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Really interesting that Dan Campbell didn't choose to go
Speaker 1: with him and Engstron, and I think that was the
Speaker 1: expectation locally, and he did promote from within it on defense,
Speaker 1: but on offense they went with John Morton. They also
Speaker 1: hired David Shaw, the former Stanford coach, which is interesting.
Speaker 1: But Engstron is the eighth Lions assistant coach to leave.
Speaker 1: One of them was asked not to come back, So
Speaker 1: that's really seven that were hired by other places. That's
Speaker 1: a lot. That's a lot to deal with, and Dan
Speaker 1: Campbell will really be tested. And I do think when
Speaker 1: you think about what works in a Lion's type of offense,
Speaker 1: or even Scott Turner, I mean, Aaron Rodgers is just
Speaker 1: the just for the football is probably better than they
Speaker 1: can do else why elsewhere, Like just in terms of
Speaker 1: who can play football the best for them in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, he's probably better now. The contract and the
Speaker 1: person make it less palatable to bring him back. But
Speaker 1: I think this move like I could see him in
Speaker 1: that offense. Let's go to the Cowboys. They hired Clayton
Speaker 1: Adams we had mentioned this was a possibility. He's he
Speaker 1: was the offensive line coach for the Cardinals, known for
Speaker 1: his running game chops shoddy kind of putting together a
Speaker 1: fun little staff there in Dallas.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I liked the Cowboys right now in terms of
Speaker 2: what they look like on paper. With that coaching staff,
Speaker 2: this tells me that they want to run the ball,
Speaker 2: and they want to do it in a variety of ways. Now,
Speaker 2: the Cowboys have physically stated this in years past, and
Speaker 2: then the moves they've made have been really questionable and
Speaker 2: told us no, they actually don't want to run the
Speaker 2: ball and don't care having a fully developed and asserting
Speaker 2: an attacking run game. But hiring Clayton Adams actually does
Speaker 2: tell me, Okay, we noticed our We've recognized our flaws
Speaker 2: in this phase a little bit. We're a little bit
Speaker 2: light in the pants here, So now we need to
Speaker 2: go and Drew petzing this thing up a little bit.
Speaker 2: I think that this is a good hire. I'm excited
Speaker 2: to see how it manifests on the field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and hiring Brian Schottenheimer tells you that too, that
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was stressing the run game. And you
Speaker 1: can connect the dots with reports that come out. The
Speaker 1: report was that Kellen Moore was looking at Clayton Adams.
Speaker 1: They both have went to Boise State for what it's
Speaker 1: worth as his offensive coordinator, and then like an hour later,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, the Cowboys probably raised their offer to
Speaker 1: Clayton Adams and closed the deal. The Bucks are hiring
Speaker 1: Josh Grizzard, a man who I wasn't familiar with, but
Speaker 1: was with Mike McDaniel in Miami and then was with
Speaker 1: the Bucks on their staff last year and was their
Speaker 1: third down play caller. And you know who led the
Speaker 1: NFL and third down efficiency last year. Now I'm just kidding, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but they got it done without Chris Cowin,
Speaker 1: so I like that. They they interviewed a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting names, I thought, but then they hired the guy
Speaker 1: from within. So some continuity there for Baker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote in my note system continuity.
Speaker 2: They're going to have to take this into a two
Speaker 2: point zero version of what they were in last year
Speaker 2: because everything they did was on tape. So this is
Speaker 2: going to be interesting. I am excited because of his
Speaker 2: experience with Mike McDaniel. I am interested to see how
Speaker 2: forty nine ers up. This kind of goes now that
Speaker 2: Liam Cohen, who had some of the RAMS influences, is
Speaker 2: out of the building.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. And I like Craig Baker finally
Speaker 1: having a little continuity here. The players all seemed like
Speaker 1: they were fans of grizz who's a young guy kind
Speaker 1: of looks like a McDaniel type.
Speaker 2: Did you hear that at the Senior Bowl or not?
Speaker 2: At the Pro Bowl? Baker told reporters that, and I
Speaker 2: think he was joking, but it's Baker sees a lot
Speaker 2: of dip on his chip that he left Liam Cohen
Speaker 2: on Red when he was telling him about potentially taking
Speaker 2: this job. Spicy Baker is the best Baker.
Speaker 1: There's been some reporting the Saints have told other coaching
Speaker 1: candidates in the in their coaching search, which would probably
Speaker 1: be Anthony Weaver, that they are trying to move forward
Speaker 1: essentially with Kellen Moore. They're going to wait to talk
Speaker 1: to him to after the Super Bowl. That The interesting
Speaker 1: thing here is our friends at the Saints Block Party
Speaker 1: podcast set on their show that Kellen Moore told the
Speaker 1: Saints he only wants the job if they don't keep
Speaker 1: Derek Carr. They've nailed their sources and their stories over
Speaker 1: the year. Is that is spicy. I love that.
Speaker 2: They're plugged in. I listened to your show from the
Speaker 2: Senior Bowl where they were patched in from the Senior
Speaker 2: Bowl this morning. Actually, I thought they did a great job,
Speaker 2: and I learned I don't watch a single prospect other
Speaker 2: than with a bullet chips on a Saturday if I'm
Speaker 2: ever at home instead of traveling through the college football season.
Speaker 2: So I felt like they got me ready to hit
Speaker 2: draft season and running some good intel there. But yeah,
Speaker 2: they've they've been on it, like they had the Ben
Speaker 2: Johnson reporting that nobody else had.
Speaker 1: They clearly I don't know who inside the building who No,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. They got they got someone. But that's
Speaker 1: really interesting because then Derek Carr will become available. He's
Speaker 1: not going to be the guy that you want as
Speaker 1: your quarterback, but he probably will be starting other Oh,
Speaker 1: we got the clock on. We have less than a minute.
Speaker 1: Last one. Jaguars hire Anthony Campanilea. Do you have any
Speaker 1: thoughts on him? The Packers linebackers coach. Kind of an
Speaker 1: up and coming guy.
Speaker 2: He was on hard knocks at some point too, wasn't
Speaker 2: he if I'm maybe I'm mistaking now you're right for people.
Speaker 2: But okay. So one thing about the Jags that is
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more interesting than this is that
Speaker 2: they're going to start honing in on their general manager
Speaker 2: candidates this week. So expect to see a few names
Speaker 2: start getting floated around UH as that part of the
Speaker 2: football building gets built out, It's going to be interesting.
Speaker 2: Everybody will report to Shad Khan according to what's coming
Speaker 2: out of that building right now.
Speaker 1: He had a fiery speech in the Dolphins hard Knocks.
Speaker 1: Good call. People love him. We did it in under
Speaker 1: a minute. I'm a little worried they're under.
Speaker 2: Of course it was you, Greg.
Speaker 1: Of course that was so close. I don't care. It's
Speaker 1: our show, Jordan. I can say what I want. It
Speaker 1: is a first time head coach with a first time
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator, very very young, and he's gonna have.
Speaker 2: A first time oh see, and he might have a
Speaker 2: first time GM.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that that happened in Seattle last year, and
Speaker 1: I think there were maybe some regrets in terms of
Speaker 1: the coaching staff. That happened in Tennessee did not go
Speaker 1: well for them in Tennessee last year.
Speaker 2: A part of this is Liam Cohen has been trying
Speaker 2: to bring in people that he knows, but the Bucks
Speaker 2: keep blocking him. And I think they're fair to be
Speaker 2: doing yet right now, they're trying to keep their own
Speaker 2: continuity in place over there. They've got to think about themselves.
Speaker 2: And you know, and and Liam, I think you know,
Speaker 2: because he's jumped around so much over the last several years,
Speaker 2: it is difficult to assess, okay, way over, what direction
Speaker 2: are what direction are well you started it? What direction
Speaker 2: are we going? And then how can we actually form
Speaker 2: an identity? But then the who of it is the
Speaker 2: big question as well, because there's just a lot of
Speaker 2: dispersal around the league of people that he's worked with before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be challenging. One other news item
Speaker 1: wanted to mention before we go to break. I had
Speaker 1: mentioned the accusations against Justin Tucker on our last show,
Speaker 1: and I did just want to update that three additional
Speaker 1: massage therapists are accusing Ravens kicker Justin Tucker of sexually
Speaker 1: inappropriate behavior. Again, great reporting by the Baltimore Banner in
Speaker 1: terms of just the first hand accounts and having everything
Speaker 1: really buttoned up, and I would recommend everyone just read that.
Speaker 1: Just from my vantage point. What's striking is how the
Speaker 1: new accusations are so consistent in the stories are all
Speaker 1: very similar, and with one of the recent accusations, there's
Speaker 1: some documentation of the therapist no longer wanting to work
Speaker 1: with Justin Tucker because of his behavior. So we will
Speaker 1: have to wait and see how the Ravens and or
Speaker 1: the league respond on that. Let's take a quick break.
Speaker 1: We're gonna come back and we are gonna do our
Speaker 1: All Pro teams. It's never too late. We're taking the
Speaker 1: playoffs into account. We're gonna do some awards right after
Speaker 1: this back on NFL Daily. I'm really excited about this.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into the off season before
Speaker 1: doing our official NFL Daily All Pro Team. We decide
Speaker 1: on our perfect roster before the season, Jordan, that was
Speaker 1: fifty three men. This is more select and what this
Speaker 1: is gonna be is our all Pro team, and there's
Speaker 1: a difference between ours and the one that's already out there.
Speaker 1: We're allowing playoff performances to impact our voting. If we want,
Speaker 1: it could be a tie breaker, it could be something
Speaker 1: that takes someone off the table or puts them over
Speaker 1: the top. We're going to do first and second teams.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a document and I plan to do
Speaker 1: NFL Daily for the next twenty four years. I would
Speaker 1: say so every year we will have this, and my
Speaker 1: goal is for this to be on the Pro Football
Speaker 1: Reference page. They'll actually list the NFL Daily All Pros
Speaker 1: as a special honor first and second team. Let's start
Speaker 1: with quarterback. And yes, we're going to do the awards.
Speaker 1: NFL Honors is Thursday night in New Orleans. We're going
Speaker 1: to do the awards at the end of the show
Speaker 1: as well. We'll pick We'll pick our guys to me,
Speaker 1: you tell me if you disagree. I think it was
Speaker 1: pretty obvious that the two quarterbacks are still Josh Allen
Speaker 1: in Lamar Jackson. I don't. I don't think there's much
Speaker 1: case for anyone else to be in there. It's just
Speaker 1: deciding the order. What is your order, or do you
Speaker 1: disagree and have a different quarterback in there.
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson is first to me, and so he would
Speaker 2: be my first team selection. I wanted to at least
Speaker 2: open the table because I have both of these names down.
Speaker 2: Wanted to at least open a brief discussion. Should we
Speaker 2: at least talk about Joe Burrow for second team? Yes,
Speaker 2: because I think this could have This could really go
Speaker 2: in so many ways. But it's really hard to argue
Speaker 2: with Joe Burrow's production this season, and really, he would
Speaker 2: have been all the way down the line in this
Speaker 2: MVP conversation had he a better team like these other
Speaker 2: two quarterbacks had, and he would have been all the
Speaker 2: way down the line in this discussion as well as
Speaker 2: a three headed MVP conversation for quarterbacks, had he even
Speaker 2: had they made the playoffs, which we are considering. And
Speaker 2: so because we're considering the playoffs, I'm not I have
Speaker 2: Lamar first in Josh second. But I wanted to at
Speaker 2: least talk about Joe Burrow and give him his flowers
Speaker 2: here because if he would have, if they would have
Speaker 2: at least snuck into the playoffs, this makes this conversation
Speaker 2: way more interesting, and I think reintroduces a third person
Speaker 2: into it.
Speaker 1: That's fair. I should have mentioned that to me, he's
Speaker 1: a really strong third. Yeah, to me, he is third,
Speaker 1: And it's not because of the playoffs. That's part of it.
Speaker 1: That's more the MVP for me, like he is a
Speaker 1: lot lower. Not a lot lower, I should say, but
Speaker 1: he is lower. Let's say in some of the advanced
Speaker 1: metrics like QBR, it's one two three, these three guys
Speaker 1: and Broke the other two are basically tied, and it's
Speaker 1: because of all the sacks he took. And I actually
Speaker 1: think that is a playing style thing. So I actually
Speaker 1: think between the rushing value, which Alan and Lamar have
Speaker 1: so much rushing value it's just outrageous, and the sack
Speaker 1: avoidance that especially Allen has, but that even Lamar has
Speaker 1: compared to Joe Burrow, I actually think that, and how
Speaker 1: they played in late and close situations, the other two
Speaker 1: get a little bit of an edge. That he's still
Speaker 1: third to me just regular season, but it's really close.
Speaker 1: He could have maybe won the MVP last year. I
Speaker 1: actually think he would have. He would have been my pick.
Speaker 1: I think for MVP A year ago he was out
Speaker 1: obviously better to me than Lamar, Jackson or brock Perty
Speaker 1: or whoever you would have voted for a year ago Burrow.
Speaker 1: But this year, that's how it goes. I guess we'll
Speaker 1: go Lamar then first team. I wrote Allen down first team,
Speaker 1: but I kind of wrote it as like I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna give this one a Jordan, because I have other
Speaker 1: ones I feel strongly about, and it's just a coin.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. I never made up my
Speaker 1: mind between Gibe.
Speaker 2: You're Kitty vote. Yeah, I did. I've made it. I
Speaker 2: had my I have my mind made up. And it's
Speaker 2: not taking anything away from anyone. It's just that that's
Speaker 2: how I see the body of work that they put
Speaker 2: together this year, and both are great. And I did
Speaker 2: think it was important to bring up Burrow though, because
Speaker 2: I just think we are seeing especially with these three.
Speaker 2: And then I put Patrick Mahomes and then you obviously
Speaker 2: also and this before people freak out, listen to the
Speaker 2: second part of my sense, and I think you have
Speaker 2: to put Matthew Stafford in this conversation too, of quarterbacks
Speaker 2: who do the most at the line of skirmage, and
Speaker 2: Lamar is incredible at this and it's really cool watching
Speaker 2: every year more and more and more and more is
Speaker 2: a signed to him that he handles at the line,
Speaker 2: and Josh Allen has done more and more and more
Speaker 2: as time has passed. Joe Burrows has entered the league
Speaker 2: doing this, but has done more as time has passed.
Speaker 2: Matthew Stafford's been doing this for ten years. Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 2: is elite at it, and I just think that when
Speaker 2: you talk about quarterbacks who are like orchestrating their entire
Speaker 2: system at elite levels, these are the quarterbacks that you
Speaker 2: could say that about. Now, the quarterbacks I'd want to
Speaker 2: build a franchise around are Lamar, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen,
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow, and Jaden Daniels. So I wanted to just
Speaker 2: throw those guys some flowers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting category of like who does the most,
Speaker 1: and I would say it'd be Mahomes and Burrow, but
Speaker 1: Alan is getting there, which is crazy.
Speaker 2: And I don't think he gets talked about enough for.
Speaker 1: How much Lamar and Lamar. Absolutely, it's been increasing incrementally,
Speaker 1: especially with Todd Monkin. All Right, we'll go, We're gonna
Speaker 1: go Lamar Jack one, Josh Allen two. And the playoffs
Speaker 1: of it all was an interesting thought experiment here because
Speaker 1: while Josh Allen and his team beat the Ravens and
Speaker 1: Lamar had an up and down game, the playoffs didn't
Speaker 1: make any difference for me trying to separate those two
Speaker 1: because actually, I think Josh Allen had maybe his worst
Speaker 1: two game stretch of the season in the playoffs, his
Speaker 1: last two games, and it wasn't bad, but it was
Speaker 1: just kind of not quite integral in the in the
Speaker 1: Ravens win, and not great in the AFC Championship, worse
Speaker 1: than I thought when I went back to rewatch that.
Speaker 1: So they didn't really separate themselves. If anything, I think
Speaker 1: Lamar's average game was probably a little better in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but not a big deal. Let's go Let's go on.
Speaker 1: We can't spend all day running back. It's only two
Speaker 1: running backs here, Okay? Who are your first and second team?
Speaker 2: First team Saquon second team Derrick Henry, honorable mention Josh Jacobs. Okay,
Speaker 2: but first team Saquon Barkley definitively not a doubt in
Speaker 2: my mind, and second team is Derrick Henry for me?
Speaker 1: Okay, I agree. I checked out the actual voting with
Speaker 1: this too. Gibbs was the only other player that got
Speaker 1: a couple votes, and it.
Speaker 2: Was barely I'm only got some votes.
Speaker 1: It was almost literally every single person voted Saquon one,
Speaker 1: Henry two. It wasn't even like Henry got a couple
Speaker 1: first No, it's like I think it was forty eight
Speaker 1: people voted Henry two and two people voted Gibbs too,
Speaker 1: and other than that, everyone agreed, and I agree too.
Speaker 1: In another year, Gibbs or Bijon I think could have
Speaker 1: been first team or second team. This just was a
Speaker 1: crazy year for running backs, and Jacobs would have gotten
Speaker 1: some votes as well, including yours.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I was talking to t Sean.
Speaker 2: We mentioned earlier my colleague at the Athletic he covers
Speaker 2: the readers, and we were laughing because the Raiders couldn't
Speaker 2: even win the My former running back goes somewhere else
Speaker 2: and has an amazing season storyline this year, like two
Speaker 2: other teams won and above them. So I'd like four Raiders,
Speaker 2: like they can't even win that one, Like they can't
Speaker 2: even win the storyline.
Speaker 1: Although he looks much better in the Packers' uniform, I
Speaker 1: gotta give it to him. Okay, wide receiver. It's funny
Speaker 1: because only two running backs make it, and then six
Speaker 1: receivers make it, which is interesting. That's how it's set
Speaker 1: up in terms of the All Pro voting. UH three
Speaker 1: on the first team, three on the second. We'll go
Speaker 1: back and forth in terms of who goes first, So
Speaker 1: I'll go first with receivers, and my first team was
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase Justin Jefferson. Those were easy too for me,
Speaker 1: and I went aj Brown with with my third pick.
Speaker 1: My second team is Pukinakua, Terry McLaurin, and aman Ra
Speaker 1: st Brown. I can get into the honorable mentions, but
Speaker 1: those are my two teams. So that's good.
Speaker 2: It's good, and I do want to extrapolate on this
Speaker 2: a little bit more. Yes, it's I'm n raw. Saint
Speaker 2: Brown had over a seventy percent success rate on targeted plays,
Speaker 2: which is just the second best among any receiver this year,
Speaker 2: and the first was Chris Godwin, who got an Honorable
Speaker 2: Flowers nod from me because he would have been a
Speaker 2: first team All Pro in my opinion, had he had
Speaker 2: the entirety of the season. And then I wanted to
Speaker 2: point to Pooka Akua and both of those guys, I'm
Speaker 2: on Ron Pookinakua fit in this category to me of
Speaker 2: if you have to have a play, that's who you
Speaker 2: that's who makes the play, like they're just known, Like
Speaker 2: if you have to have a play, they're gonna get
Speaker 2: open or they're gonna make it insane catch or they're
Speaker 2: gonna get the ball somehow, whether it's scheme, whether it
Speaker 2: is the quarterback making a play to the receiver, whether
Speaker 2: it's the receiver making a play. And those two guys,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, are right there next to each other
Speaker 2: in that regard of like this is your go to
Speaker 2: if you have to have a play that's not your necessarily,
Speaker 2: like you're Justin Jefferson a team without you know, a
Speaker 2: Justin Jefferson or a true ex in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Pukut didn't. I was surprised. I hadn't checked
Speaker 1: out all the voting, but Puka didn't come that close
Speaker 1: to actually making the second team. So I'm a little surprised.
Speaker 1: I give more weight to what did you do when
Speaker 1: you were out there, and on a yards per target
Speaker 1: run efficiency, it was one of the greatest wide receiver
Speaker 1: seasons of all time. It was actually better than any
Speaker 1: other receiver this year by a decent amount. And so
Speaker 1: that's enough for me. With the miss time that he
Speaker 1: gets on the second team, aman Ra's numbers were ultimately
Speaker 1: better than AJ Brown, so were Terry mclaurin's. He got
Speaker 1: thirteen touchdowns ag Brown had nine. I believe they both
Speaker 1: didn't go over eleven hundred yards, which isn't crazy. And
Speaker 1: I know he wasn't as good after the injury, but
Speaker 1: when he was healthy and it was like the first
Speaker 1: thirteen games of the season or whatever, so it was
Speaker 1: most of the season. I think if you just watch
Speaker 1: the tape.
Speaker 2: And see what a.
Speaker 1: AJ Brown's doing, I just think he's better than a
Speaker 1: moan ra and Terry and so that was just what
Speaker 1: I went with that. I think I just think he's
Speaker 1: he was just a little bit better. I actually think
Speaker 1: he there was a decent argument that he was the
Speaker 1: best wide receiver in football. Now the production didn't get
Speaker 1: there and he fell off, so no way at the end.
Speaker 1: But that's how good he was. You know, Mike Evans
Speaker 1: could have been mentioned here. He got a lot of votes.
Speaker 1: Actually you got more than Puka. Brian Thomas wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been that creas.
Speaker 2: I had him as an honorable mention. I don't think
Speaker 2: that's crazy at all, especially relative to his experience level.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I don't think that's crazy at all.
Speaker 1: If there was a third team, I probably would have
Speaker 1: gone Brian Thomas, Mike Evan CDE lamb, let's go to
Speaker 1: tight end, give me your two in order. Felt like
Speaker 1: it was a three man raise for two spots. Tell
Speaker 1: me if you.
Speaker 2: Disagree, Okay, but yes, but I wanted new blood in there.
Speaker 2: So I put Brack Bauers and Trey McBride first team
Speaker 2: and second team. And I did that because I know that, Listen,
Speaker 2: I know that purely. I'm a fantasy football perspective. People
Speaker 2: will yell at me, and you might yell at me
Speaker 2: about Trey McBride. I think he's one of the best
Speaker 2: tight ends in football. And it is like, I don't
Speaker 2: argue or look at it from that perspective because I
Speaker 2: actually don't play fantasy football and I haven't in many,
Speaker 2: many years, And so I'm looking at it from what
Speaker 2: these guys are doing right now in the league, from
Speaker 2: a holistic standpoint, what they mean to their team, and
Speaker 2: what their production and what they're like levels of excellence are,
Speaker 2: especially as they are ascending in some of their peers,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, are maybe on the back stretch of
Speaker 2: their career. They're the number three and four in receptions
Speaker 2: in the NFL this year of all targeted players, and
Speaker 2: both of them eclipsed eleven hundred yards and ten yards
Speaker 2: per catch, and we're really the workhorses for their offenses,
Speaker 2: even when other players like Marvin Harrison Junior and the
Speaker 2: Cardinals was available.
Speaker 1: We've got our first disagreement because I'm going to I
Speaker 1: will stand on the table and push back. I need
Speaker 1: to get Kittle on the team. I agree with everything
Speaker 1: you're saying, and it really is painful for me to
Speaker 1: take any one of these three off I had McBride third,
Speaker 1: but I'm willing to kick off Boers if i need to,
Speaker 1: because I had kiddled first. Because everything you just said
Speaker 1: about McBride is true about Kittle. They're probably the two best,
Speaker 1: most complete tight ends. I mean, I this might have
Speaker 1: been Kittle's best season eleven hundred yards, eight touchdowns, and
Speaker 1: he's still I think he changes the math in a
Speaker 1: way as a receiving threat and blocking threat that no
Speaker 1: one else other than maybe now McBride can do. So
Speaker 1: I actually think he It's hard for me to say
Speaker 1: George Kittle in one of his peak seasons, like he's
Speaker 1: a first ballot Hall of Famer to me, is in
Speaker 1: one of the two guys Like ultimately, who would I've
Speaker 1: rather had this season? On my team to help me win,
Speaker 1: and the stats still back it up. And so I
Speaker 1: think it's still Kittle over those two guys. So I'll
Speaker 1: let you choose between the other two. And if I
Speaker 1: have to be second, I don't know. I'll deal with
Speaker 1: second team, but I I need Kittle on the team.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, maybe we'll give it to the rookie next
Speaker 2: year then, because yeah, that's the thing. That's what I
Speaker 2: said too, is the three man race, like it was
Speaker 2: so tight to me. But I mean, if you go
Speaker 2: and watch some of the things that brock Bauer and
Speaker 2: I know you have Greg, like some of the things
Speaker 2: that is able to do as a rookie, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, okay, but ten years tenure and George Kittle
Speaker 2: had an amazing season, you.
Speaker 1: Cannot It's it's it's about the every down impact. It's
Speaker 1: about the blocking basically, and what.
Speaker 2: Well and I think and I think George Kittle would
Speaker 2: be first in every down impact if we're really if
Speaker 2: that is like specifically the category of it, I.
Speaker 1: Think of getting there though they'd use him in a
Speaker 1: lot of creative ways he does.
Speaker 2: Would you let me agree with you for no God's sake,
Speaker 2: Like just this is how I'll get you next time,
Speaker 2: is like I'll just like agree with you and then
Speaker 2: you'll be like oh no and freak out.
Speaker 1: Then have to like, okay, so what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: We're killing right of Brock Bowers.
Speaker 2: We're going.
Speaker 1: Will we go out? You want to bring McBride first,
Speaker 1: I'll give you that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put Tray McBride first.
Speaker 1: All right, We're gonna go McBride first. Love for McBride.
Speaker 1: Apologies to Bowers, and man, he's not gonna get Offensive
Speaker 1: Regular of the Year either. For me. That's tough. Sorry, sorry, Brock,
Speaker 1: but you'll have future success. We got to speed this
Speaker 1: up a little left tackle. I had worfs in my
Speaker 1: lotta as my one two. Okay, shout out to Dion Dawkins.
Speaker 1: Really nice kind of rebound season. Rashaun Slater is good
Speaker 1: left guard. What do you have.
Speaker 2: Joe Tooney and Quentin Nelson?
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, I had. I went landon Dickerson in Toney.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm giving a little bump to the playoffs
Speaker 1: of it all, although we got you know, he got
Speaker 1: hurt in the Conference championship, but I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna fight you over Quentin Nelson.
Speaker 2: He did I think, I mean, yeah, I think he
Speaker 2: just I think he was excellent.
Speaker 1: I did have first team for Dickerson, so.
Speaker 2: Toony's my first team because he's also playing left tackle
Speaker 2: at times. I mean, for.
Speaker 1: God's sake, but is he? Is he playing it that well?
Speaker 1: I think it was better in the ac G.
Speaker 2: I don't care. He's moving positions like he's He's able
Speaker 2: to do it on a championship team in the National
Speaker 2: Football League. Okay, give him a bone here, Greg.
Speaker 1: Can I can you give me Dickerson then? And now?
Speaker 1: I owe you one?
Speaker 2: Now one you do, and I'm saving it because I
Speaker 2: know what you can.
Speaker 1: Tony's won Dickerson two left guard center. We're not offensive
Speaker 1: line experts. I went, I went create, Humphrey. I didn't
Speaker 1: know who to pick us my second center. I went Linderbaum.
Speaker 1: People love them some Zach Frazier, but those are my two.
Speaker 1: What did you go, Frank? I know, but when I
Speaker 1: watched them, I don't know. Man. People love him and
Speaker 1: the on off splits are great, like the PFF numbers
Speaker 1: are great, but like I actually thought they had some issues.
Speaker 1: But I'll give you that. That's fine. Humphrey and frank
Speaker 1: ragnow Franken Creed.
Speaker 2: I did want to give a really positive shout out though,
Speaker 2: and an honorable mention even though it's not a real thing.
Speaker 2: But he took on an impossible job. That is Cam
Speaker 2: Jurgen's you had to be the next guy, yes, after
Speaker 2: the elite like all star face of the franchise guy,
Speaker 2: and I think he handled it admirably.
Speaker 1: All right, give me your right guard and your right tackle.
Speaker 1: Let's let's go fast.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got Quinn Miners and Sam Cosmy, who I
Speaker 2: really want to get on here is one of the
Speaker 2: best right guards in the NFL this season. You have
Speaker 2: it on yours too, Greg showing his notes. Greg Greg
Speaker 2: is like has a printer in his house. I'm looking
Speaker 2: digitally here.
Speaker 1: Never I always dog might be one.
Speaker 2: Of the last humans on earth that has a printer
Speaker 2: in his house. So that's good. Though, someone has to
Speaker 2: keep a record of this. Quinn Miners and Sam Cosy,
Speaker 2: he had one sack all season per next Gen and
Speaker 2: to be able to do that while also feeling and
Speaker 2: learning and growing as a blocker for a quarterback who
Speaker 2: can move and run and can can freestyle and create like,
Speaker 2: that's such a hard thing to do, and I thought
Speaker 2: he handled it brilliantly. Right tackle, I have Lane Johnson
Speaker 2: and Pine Sewel.
Speaker 1: I had him but reversed. Man, I think sewell just
Speaker 1: we were talking about him as like offensive.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah first, yeah, yeah, Oh. I didn't do it
Speaker 2: in order.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I first, Lane second, minors first caused me second
Speaker 1: and with these offensive linement I did send some emails,
Speaker 1: some texts around see what people thought, and uh, I
Speaker 1: think we have good picks. All right, let's go to
Speaker 1: the edge. We're going to defense. Edge was tough. Why
Speaker 1: don't you go? I'll go first. I went in the
Speaker 1: end my first team. There's two on the first team,
Speaker 1: two on the second. I wrote down like seven names,
Speaker 1: but my first team in the end, I went with
Speaker 1: Myles Garrett and Trey Hendrickson. And my second team I
Speaker 1: went with Micah Parsons. He's kind of like the Puka
Speaker 1: in aj Brown argument for me that on a down
Speaker 1: and down basis when you just watched him, I think
Speaker 1: he was maybe the best player, like on defense in
Speaker 1: the NFL this year, So I'm giving him a second team.
Speaker 1: That's how I tend. I go with a higher peak
Speaker 1: and miss some games. And I want to Daniel Hunter,
Speaker 1: but as my second team. But I'm really open to
Speaker 1: conversation here. What do you got?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I have Daniel Hunter, Jonathan Greenard, and
Speaker 2: Micah Parsons as honorable mentions. And I did not give
Speaker 2: Micah Parsons a complete grade because you know, missing some
Speaker 2: time this season. I have Miles Garrett and Nick Bonito
Speaker 2: on my first team.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: However, I would agree with you on Miles Garrett and
Speaker 2: Trey Hendrickson on my first team and then Nick Bonito
Speaker 2: and Kyle van Noy.
Speaker 1: What on my side game too?
Speaker 2: This is too much doing it for the old guys. No,
Speaker 2: I'm in all seriousness. Nick Bonito and Daniel Hunter would
Speaker 2: make a nice okay, a nice second team in my opin.
Speaker 1: I want to be pushy on Parsons, man, he's so good.
Speaker 2: I feel like you always want to be pushy, isn't
Speaker 2: Is that.
Speaker 1: Not the I didn't want to on the QB one
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I wrote down three other names. One
Speaker 1: of them was Benito, so I'll live with that as
Speaker 1: a second teamer. I don't love it. He was the
Speaker 1: seventh name I wrote down, So I'm giving you that.
Speaker 1: I wrote down Will Anderson as well. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: wrote down Van Ginkle. I you know, Van Ginkle to me,
Speaker 1: is a better choice. If you're going with the Vans,
Speaker 1: go van Ginkle, not van Noy. But so we have
Speaker 1: Benito as our second team, we have Garrett and Trey
Speaker 1: as our first team. We still have one open spot
Speaker 1: that could be either Parsons, Hunter or one of the
Speaker 1: one of the Vans.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm putting Daniel Hunter there. If it's Miles,
Speaker 2: all right, Miles and Tray and then Nick and Daniel.
Speaker 2: But I want to I want to point out, like
Speaker 2: I said, I say Kyle van Noy because I want
Speaker 2: to shout out for the thirty three year olds recently
Speaker 2: turned thirty three. Cannot imagine how he is twelve and
Speaker 2: a half sacks, twelve tactics for the last two bad
Speaker 2: of passes, two forced fumbles, like making a difference in
Speaker 2: the postseason with a detached like retina slash, broken eye socket,
Speaker 2: Like that's pretty crazy to me. And so like I'm
Speaker 2: just wanted to shout him out. Yeah, put him in
Speaker 2: my honorable mentions.
Speaker 1: Greg as wells I hate not having Michaeh. Parsons on
Speaker 1: this team instead of Benito? Man, Like, where was Nick
Speaker 1: Benino in that playoff? I don't know.
Speaker 2: Incredible season? Now you incredible season?
Speaker 1: Now you owe me one?
Speaker 2: Are we not even?
Speaker 1: I don't know who's keeping track? All right, we're even?
Speaker 2: Well you help on this one because this is where
Speaker 2: Securier was tough.
Speaker 1: Actually, I was pretty clear with my top four. I
Speaker 1: just didn't know what order to put him in. My
Speaker 1: top four were Zach Allen, Jalen Carter, Cam Hayward, and
Speaker 1: Chris Jones.
Speaker 2: Yep, those are too, okay.
Speaker 1: I had two honorable mentions Dexter Lawrence for half a season.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have put him on a team, but he
Speaker 1: probably would have been first team for his half season.
Speaker 1: And then Leo Williams was pretty sweet for for most
Speaker 1: of the year. That was the order I wrote them
Speaker 1: down in Alan, Carter, Hayward, Jones. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know if you have a first team like hope. I
Speaker 1: really think Zach Allen had kind of a first team
Speaker 1: All Pro type of year. I really do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I put Hayward, Alan Jones, Carter.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just do that order. Yeah, because I think
Speaker 1: Chris Jones. If we're counting the playoffs, you know, he
Speaker 1: gets a bump for sure. Hayward kind of disappeared a
Speaker 1: little bit at the end of the year. I don't know,
Speaker 1: he was maybe fighting suit through something and Carter went crazy.
Speaker 1: I tell you what, now that we're talking playoffs, actually
Speaker 1: I don't want to have Hayward as my first team.
Speaker 1: I want to give some playoffs if we're Carter or
Speaker 1: Chris Jones.
Speaker 2: If we're talking playoffs, then I think you have to
Speaker 2: give it to Chris Jones. Jalen. Carter then also also
Speaker 2: did basically win that game for the Eagles after the Rams,
Speaker 2: we're trying to make a comeback, so I want to
Speaker 2: give him a nod there. But I think going that
Speaker 2: you're not going to get a lot of argument for
Speaker 2: me on going Zach Allen Chris Jones is.
Speaker 1: Your okay, let's do that. Let's do that. No, we agreed.
Speaker 1: This is what this is what it is.
Speaker 2: This is this next one about insidelnebackers where I need
Speaker 2: help because you already know my first two, but I
Speaker 2: need you. I'm gonna need your help on it. So
Speaker 2: I'll just give you my first My first team is
Speaker 2: Zach Bond and Frankie Luvu, but I need your help
Speaker 2: on the second team because this is one of the
Speaker 2: positions where like so much, so much is just unknown,
Speaker 2: like some of the calls, some of the ways that
Speaker 2: they're aligning their defenses, like all of these things, whether
Speaker 2: or not their D line is setting them up, and
Speaker 2: then they have to make up for the D line,
Speaker 2: and so, you know, there was a couple of guys
Speaker 2: that really stood out to me. I liked I liked
Speaker 2: Diane Henley's season for the Chargers. I liked Rocwon Smith's season.
Speaker 2: I have, of course Fred Warner on here. I have
Speaker 2: actually as an honorable mention, Ernest Jones quietly had like
Speaker 2: a really really really good year in Seattle. But I'm
Speaker 2: gonna need Patrick Queen. You always talk about Patrick Queen,
Speaker 2: but I you know, I want to.
Speaker 1: Know Patrick, not not this year. I don't have him.
Speaker 2: I have him been an honorable mention as a shout out,
Speaker 2: but I had Zach Bond and Frankie Louva was my
Speaker 2: first team, and then I'm open for whatever conversation. For
Speaker 2: second team.
Speaker 1: This is a position where it was harder to find
Speaker 1: obvious options. I actually didn't think it was that hard
Speaker 1: to go Bond and Luvu like you, and then Warner
Speaker 1: to me is second team because of the same reason
Speaker 1: that I just said about Pooka and aj Brown. For
Speaker 1: the first granted it was only like six seven games
Speaker 1: of the season, he was probably the defensive player of
Speaker 1: the year. So even though he played through an injury
Speaker 1: and wasn't the same in the second half of the year,
Speaker 1: that brilliance was so brilliant. He's an easy second teamer
Speaker 1: that leaves one spot. And I actually settled pretty strongly
Speaker 1: on one guy, and it's Blake Cashman.
Speaker 2: Oh, I like that one. You know what I missed.
Speaker 2: I missed it he because he missed part of the year.
Speaker 2: But he was absolutely excellent for them when he was
Speaker 2: in the first part and then in the back part.
Speaker 2: I totally forgot about him. I knew I was gonna
Speaker 2: forget someone, but I thought he was excellent this year.
Speaker 1: To me, it was him or Rocon. Rocan so excellent.
Speaker 1: But until they kind of changed the responsibilities with that
Speaker 1: Ravens season, like it seemed like Rocon was hurt for
Speaker 1: a bit, like he was not playing well for a
Speaker 1: minute and played Cashman missed the perfect amount of games,
Speaker 1: which was three in the on off splits were crazy,
Speaker 1: like their defense kind of fell apart without playing Cashman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he made He just felt like a really important
Speaker 1: blue guy on one of the defining defenses. So I
Speaker 1: like him as a second teamer. Glad we agreed there
Speaker 1: all right, cornerback, I am curious where you went. This
Speaker 1: was one of the toughest ones. Now all Pro separates
Speaker 1: slot cornerback and outside corner. So outside corner has two
Speaker 1: spots first team, two spots second team, and then slot
Speaker 1: is is separate. So let's start with outside corner.
Speaker 2: Yes, so outside corner, I have Pat certain first team,
Speaker 2: I have Stang first team, Second team. I have Sting's
Speaker 2: teammate Kamari Lassiter.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I also have Christian Gonzalez, Kamari Lasser and Derek
Speaker 2: Stingley Junior allowed the lowest and second lowest completion percentages
Speaker 2: among defenders with at least fifty targets face this season,
Speaker 2: including the playoffs, totally made the absolute difference in at
Speaker 2: least their miniature playoff run in that first game, and
Speaker 2: I just think, like, where the hell are you gonna throw?
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about it from this perspective, I wanted to
Speaker 2: get the teammates on there, because where in the hell
Speaker 2: are you going to throw the football? Obviously, the Chiefs
Speaker 2: picked them apart right up the seams where they were
Speaker 2: lacking players, right, And so this is to me, I
Speaker 2: like having them that these teammates that really anchored this
Speaker 2: really this defense that could show it was truly outstanding
Speaker 2: in flashes this year, especially in that playoff game.
Speaker 1: I like the thought, but I'm going to push back
Speaker 1: on lass. I don't think. I don't think. Although the
Speaker 1: fourth spot is wide open. So the toughest decision I
Speaker 1: had this whole time was Stingley or Gonzales on my
Speaker 1: first team. I ended up going with Stingley because of
Speaker 1: that playoff game. I think Gonzales probably is a better
Speaker 1: is a slightly better player, and maybe even at a
Speaker 1: slightly better season, but that playoff game put it over
Speaker 1: the top for me. So I went with you and
Speaker 1: went Stingley and insertan first team Gonzalez second team. That
Speaker 1: leaves one spot. I think it has to go to
Speaker 1: one of these four guys. Quinon Mitchell, Oh yeah, Christian Benford.
Speaker 1: Christian Benford was great this year. He really was like
Speaker 1: a CB one on a really good defense, Trent McDuffie
Speaker 1: not probably his best, you know, playing.
Speaker 2: Outside he got moved around her.
Speaker 1: Still ultimately awesome and super valuable and in Denz Award,
Speaker 1: Like I don't, I'd have to talk to more people
Speaker 1: about it. But his best games are like the best
Speaker 1: of anyone's best games. So I wrote him down.
Speaker 2: I would take off Kamari if we put on Quinon.
Speaker 1: That that was the guy I ultimately put in my
Speaker 1: fourth spot, but I didn't feel strong about it. I
Speaker 1: would have accepted Benford or maybe McDuffie awards. So let's
Speaker 1: go Quinnon Mitchell Second team opera? Why not?
Speaker 2: So wait? So PS two staying Christian Gonzales.
Speaker 1: And Mitchell is our outside corners in the slot? Oh
Speaker 1: wait do it? Do you owe me one yet?
Speaker 2: Because no, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it
Speaker 2: because I don't know you, you know, but let's talk
Speaker 2: about it because and I've been texting with one of
Speaker 2: our friends, bo Wolf, planning that this is what I
Speaker 2: was going to do to you today. Oh wow, Because
Speaker 2: when you remember Greg all the way back at the
Speaker 2: beginning of the season, when all of this needless debate
Speaker 2: over where is Cooper gen gonna play? When he is
Speaker 2: finally healthy and what is he going to do and
Speaker 2: how is he gonna blah blah blah. Okay, Actually he
Speaker 2: is built ideally for the revamped Vic Fangio defense and
Speaker 2: the star position, which is a slot position, yes, and
Speaker 2: it's a hybrid between a safety and a corner, and
Speaker 2: they have different coverage roles than some teammates sometimes. And
Speaker 2: to watch Cooper dejene really take over that role and
Speaker 2: turn into in my opinion, one of the better slot
Speaker 2: defenders in the entire NFL, especially down the stretch. If
Speaker 2: you go and watch some of the All twenty two
Speaker 2: about where he positions himself and where he's just able
Speaker 2: to affect the direction and the way that plays are
Speaker 2: made and the way that he has his attackle I
Speaker 2: think that I would like to talk about him, and
Speaker 2: bo Wolf does as well, about potentially making this team
Speaker 2: maybe second team. We'll see.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't write him down. I should have, because
Speaker 1: I also wrote down Garrett Williams from the Cardinals just
Speaker 1: as an honorable mention. I would put de Gine ahead
Speaker 1: of him, probably Toron Johnson. The actual second team surprised me.
Speaker 1: It was Derwin James.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that really surprised me on the That's why I
Speaker 2: felt like.
Speaker 1: I wrote him down. I feel stronger about my second
Speaker 1: teamer than anything else here. I put Marlin Humphrey, which
Speaker 1: is what the voters did to as my first team.
Speaker 1: Yeah too, I put Devin Weatherspoon as my second. Devin
Speaker 1: Weatherspoon is such a good player, and he didn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of ball production this year because they didn't
Speaker 1: like throw at him. But everything you're saying about Degene,
Speaker 1: I just think if you asked everyone around the league,
Speaker 1: like who's a better player right now? Who had a
Speaker 1: better season, I think it's I know he didn't have
Speaker 1: like crazy numbers, but when you watch him, he might
Speaker 1: be the He's so good. Devin Witherspoon is so good
Speaker 1: that I really want him on this team. That first
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I know Devin Witherspoon is so good. He's written on
Speaker 2: my notes. But I do want to tell you that
Speaker 2: this this the way that the Eagles are able to
Speaker 2: stay in their A plus defense the entire game, the
Speaker 2: championship game. Eagles are able to stay in their A
Speaker 2: plus defense because they have the sort of master key
Speaker 2: player that Vic Fangio has always coveted in his schemes,
Speaker 2: but has now developed some of his coverages forward because
Speaker 2: he has a quinyon Mitchell and because he has a
Speaker 2: Cooper gen because he's got safeties playing well, but because
Speaker 2: he has a like It reminds me of twenty twenty
Speaker 2: with what they were trying to do at times with
Speaker 2: the with Jalen Ramsey and then also with Troy Hill
Speaker 2: at different times where you try to make this an
Speaker 2: unavoidable player. So you have to tilt all of your
Speaker 2: coverages away from somebody who happens to be taking up
Speaker 2: space in the middle field, and you can keep them
Speaker 2: on tight ends, you can keep them deep if you
Speaker 2: want to, but you probably don't want to because you
Speaker 2: want him around the ball at all times. And so
Speaker 2: I think that that's where I would make this argument.
Speaker 2: And I was telling Bo last night when I was
Speaker 2: texting him, I was totally going to do this. And
Speaker 2: my brain is now wired to automatically argue with you
Speaker 2: in my head as I make a case for something
Speaker 2: and then bring somebody onto my team.
Speaker 1: So we're agreeing on Marlon Humphrey for sure.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to take anything away from Devin Weatherston.
Speaker 1: The only person I wrote all on this entire sheet
Speaker 1: feel strong. Next to was Devin Witherspoon. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's been a great first year with you, Jordan. No
Speaker 1: one knows ball like you. I will just give you
Speaker 1: Cooper de Gene even though I don't agree with it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he would probably be my third or fourth team.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's crazy. I'm getting me. I don't
Speaker 1: like it. Devin Witherspoon, if you're out there, you know
Speaker 1: Seahawks fans, I believe. I believe he's a better player.
Speaker 2: Devin Witherspoon. I think you're one of the best defensive
Speaker 2: players in the league. Greg is trying to again.
Speaker 1: Till you wouldn't even think it on over.
Speaker 2: Greg is the ultimate Greg is the ultimate slot corner
Speaker 2: because he's tilting coverage is left and right and changing
Speaker 2: goalposts for arguments.
Speaker 1: You know. So for what it's worth, you know Dejeane
Speaker 1: didn't play the first month.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we have Blake Cashman. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: But here is between these two guys. I don't think
Speaker 1: Dejeane's heights.
Speaker 2: You wanted Micah Parsons on there, and he's as defensive
Speaker 2: player in the league.
Speaker 1: For those guys, they were so much better than the
Speaker 1: other guys.
Speaker 2: Puka Nakua on there too, and he you know.
Speaker 1: Missed the argument for those guys as they were so
Speaker 1: next level when they did play it. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't believe the corners. I'm giving it the league, I'm
Speaker 1: giving it to you. I'm not happy about it. Safeties,
Speaker 1: I went with the lot both Lions. I went with
Speaker 1: Joseph and Branch and then I had McKinney the fourth safety.
Speaker 1: Who did you have? I kind of left that open
Speaker 1: with I actually put.
Speaker 2: I know it was spotty at first, but I actually
Speaker 2: put Kyle Hamilton out there too, because once he got
Speaker 2: moved back and they made some of those adjustments in
Speaker 2: their secondary, it just was night and day. You could
Speaker 2: just tell that things were a little bit strained early on.
Speaker 2: And I just think watching him play is just pure
Speaker 2: It's just pure joy watching how he navigates space and
Speaker 2: manipulates it, like it's just awesome to watch.
Speaker 1: I wrote down Derwin as my initial one, like counted
Speaker 1: him as a safety, but obviously he could put him
Speaker 1: in the slot, and then, you know, just to have
Speaker 1: some Cardinals representation, we could put Buddha Baker here as
Speaker 1: a second.
Speaker 2: I know, and I like that he I liked that
Speaker 2: he got a nod too, and I put him I
Speaker 2: put him a question mark. Question mark could be on
Speaker 2: this list, could be honorable mention.
Speaker 1: That's what I said. We're going Joseph and Branch as
Speaker 1: our team. I was surprised Branch didn't even come close
Speaker 1: to making all pro. Wh's just crazy to me. But
Speaker 1: he would have been. He would have gotten my first
Speaker 1: place vote. But reasonable minds disagree. I know the production
Speaker 1: wasn't there at the end, but I just think of
Speaker 1: his value. And then McKinney's second team, and then it
Speaker 1: either Hamilton, Buddha or Buddha. I guess for the second team.
Speaker 2: Oh, I probably go Buddha.
Speaker 1: I feel much stronger about my Weatherspoon pick. Can I
Speaker 1: put him at safety? No, it doesn't really make sense,
Speaker 1: all right?
Speaker 2: And then finally just put him on the list. Good lord.
Speaker 1: No, actually, let's make a new let's make a new category.
Speaker 2: I don't feel that strongly about anything.
Speaker 1: You're going to do it.
Speaker 2: You do what you want to do.
Speaker 1: We're going to do it every year. Like I said,
Speaker 1: this is a document. We're putting it up on social
Speaker 1: every year. We get to add just one player each
Speaker 1: and you can choose any team, any any position, because let's.
Speaker 2: Put Joe and let's put let's put Burrow back at
Speaker 2: quarterback as the third, and then we'll put Witherspoon as
Speaker 2: the third in the slot. I love this. This is
Speaker 2: great compromise.
Speaker 1: We each get one wild card pick every year, my pick.
Speaker 1: I love every Weatherspoon. I love that you're getting Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow on there.
Speaker 2: That. Yeah, I love this. This is this is great. Now,
Speaker 2: this is the platonically ideal roster.
Speaker 1: Platonic. Yes, I will see we can.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oagsmund ogsmund.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's it for the All Pro team. I thought
Speaker 1: would be quicker. Of course we're not. Let's take one
Speaker 1: quick break and we're gonna run through the awards and
Speaker 1: we're gonna get onto our day down down to the
Speaker 1: Blasco Theater. Back here all right, wrapping up NFL Daily.
Speaker 1: It's Super Bowl Week? How crazy is that? It really
Speaker 1: is boggling my mind that in forty eight hours we
Speaker 1: will be taping our Wednesday show. We have really great guests,
Speaker 1: some big time quarterbacks, big time players at other positions. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't want to jinx it, because sometimes these things
Speaker 1: change at the last minute. In aggregate, they're gonna be great,
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna say say the names. Very excited,
Speaker 1: but there is there is a name that we're going
Speaker 1: to be mentioning here for Offensive Rookie of the Year
Speaker 1: that you know, we we have written down, so hopefully
Speaker 1: we get to talk to him MVP. We ended up
Speaker 1: kind of agreeing on Lamar on first team. I didn't
Speaker 1: feel strong about it. I almost want to just make
Speaker 1: Saquon the MVP just after these playoffs and we're allowed
Speaker 1: to vote it, and then I don't have to choose,
Speaker 1: can we do? Should I do that? I wrote down
Speaker 1: Lamar Allen Saquon and then literally as we're talking, would
Speaker 1: be fun to just make it Saquon or No.
Speaker 2: When you wonder why these shows go long, this is
Speaker 2: an example of why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's go Lamar Allen in Saquon. Jordan
Speaker 1: has asked for this part of the show. I'm going
Speaker 1: to present my three and she's just gonna tell me
Speaker 1: where she disagrees or wants to change it. So I
Speaker 1: will go Lamar Allen Saquon one, two, three. What do
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 2: I agree?
Speaker 1: Okay, Defensive Player of the Year toughest one. I think
Speaker 1: it's different than figuring out our All pros like Miles
Speaker 1: Garrett to me could be first team All Pro, but
Speaker 1: maybe not Defensive Player of the Year, although he is finalist,
Speaker 1: because I don't know. It's tough. You have to be
Speaker 1: you have to be so far ahead of the path,
Speaker 1: I think to be on a team that bad and
Speaker 1: he just wasn't so in the end. And I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about the playoffs too. I'm going Zach Bond Defensive Player
Speaker 1: of the Year, Patrick number two, and Trey Hendrickson three.
Speaker 1: I just think when you think about this season, it
Speaker 1: feels like more it was the Zach Bond season than anything,
Speaker 1: and he was the key to the best defense in
Speaker 1: the league.
Speaker 2: WHOA. I think that broke my brain. I mean, I
Speaker 2: like your argument, but I still think Miles Garrett should
Speaker 2: be the defensive Player of the Year. I do like
Speaker 2: your argument. If you went Miles Bond, certain I'd be
Speaker 2: fine with that.
Speaker 1: I'm sticking with my guy Bond. We'll put in Miles
Speaker 1: over Tray. I kind of agree with you there at least,
Speaker 1: so we'll go Certain second and Miles Garrett third. Offensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year. This is where Saquon will get
Speaker 1: his like sloppy seconds kind of weird. Let's just make
Speaker 1: a quarterback award in an offensive player award separate. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I went Saquon Chase in Burrow. It's like all the
Speaker 1: guys that you couldn't give the MVP two necessarily.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chase has to be in there. I mean what
Speaker 2: he accomplished this season, and like it kind of felt
Speaker 2: sneaky quiet that he yeah, yeah, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like it just felt like that he just racked up,
Speaker 2: you know what, a triple crown, and like it just
Speaker 2: it just felt like it went way under the radar.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's like part of the machine doing its
Speaker 2: work because they're trying to suppress his pay eventually or something,
Speaker 2: but like it just felt like it was I just
Speaker 2: felt like it was quiet. Like it just was too quiet.
Speaker 2: I would have liked to see more celebration of that.
Speaker 2: I know that there was some, but like I just
Speaker 2: I would have liked to see people focus more on that.
Speaker 1: That's an amazing thing to do, it is, and the
Speaker 1: Saquon thing bothers me too, because if this was not
Speaker 1: an MVP running back season, there can't be one, you know,
Speaker 1: but I yeah, or there can't be one in a
Speaker 1: season like this again, if you put Saquon into last season,
Speaker 1: I think he wins this award over twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, which was one of the week gest MVP
Speaker 1: years I've ever seen. It happens now. And then there
Speaker 1: was there was there was a Defensive Player of the
Speaker 1: Year award where no one knew what who to give
Speaker 1: and like Terrell Suggs won and he had a good year,
Speaker 1: but it was just like he got like fifteen votes,
Speaker 1: but no one knew it happened. Sometimes offensive Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year, this is the name I was teasing before
Speaker 1: Jayden Daniels number one. And then our guy brock Bauers.
Speaker 1: We'll give him a two here. We kept him with
Speaker 1: sure five. It's too bad. Could we do ties at
Speaker 1: tight end? That would be we could really be just
Speaker 1: sneaky here. And then I put Brian Thomas as my
Speaker 1: third nice.
Speaker 2: I like that one. If you were going to say,
Speaker 2: Malik Neighbors, I would have roasted you again for putting
Speaker 2: a truncated season again, even though you argue with me
Speaker 2: that I can't do it again anyway. I like your
Speaker 2: picks Greg, great picks, nice job, good thinking, nice brain.
Speaker 1: There are levels, Jordan, if you put the I know.
Speaker 2: I know you do not see the nice twisting.
Speaker 1: Like the Davis Hall of Fame case. It's like you
Speaker 1: have to be Terrell Davis to make the Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame off those five years, but you weren't to Roald Davis.
Speaker 2: It's just nice to know there are just certain things
Speaker 2: that can get under your skin.
Speaker 1: Greg.
Speaker 2: Honestly, like it's just.
Speaker 1: Nice comeback Player of the Year. Burrow's probably gonna win it,
Speaker 1: and I have to admit I wrote him down first,
Speaker 1: but I hate this award. I'm actually changing it now
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be biased towards our guest on NFL
Speaker 1: Daily at Chargers Camp, and I'm gonna give it to JK.
Speaker 1: Dobbins and I'll go Donald second and Tomar Hamlin third.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be stupid when Burrow wins Offensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year potentially and Comeback Player of the Year,
Speaker 1: and that could happen. So it's like it's kind of
Speaker 1: a weird award, but I'm gonna go Dobbin's Donald Damar Hamlin.
Speaker 2: One thing I did want to ask is how comfortable
Speaker 2: are you doing that knowing that also Dobbins did not
Speaker 2: have a complete season, and I say that very earnestly,
Speaker 2: like yeah, he then unfortunately I hated seeing it, but
Speaker 2: was hurt again. So it's almost like, okay, well, do
Speaker 2: you give him an incomplete and then you go Donald
Speaker 2: Hamlin or do you kind of right the wrong of
Speaker 2: the DeMar Hamlin situation last year? You go Hamlin first.
Speaker 2: This award is so convoluted and messed up at this
Speaker 2: point that I don't know that there's any right way
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really hope the NFL. I need to. I
Speaker 1: need to find someone to talk to could make a
Speaker 1: most Improved award, because I think that's a better award. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could. You could do come back and that's off injury,
Speaker 1: but do.
Speaker 2: Most improvement like literal death?
Speaker 1: Like the candidates which I just looked up and I
Speaker 1: didn't know we're actually the the players we all just said,
Speaker 1: Plus Christian Gonzales was in that mix, so, uh, Coach
Speaker 1: of the Year. I that this is one we did
Speaker 1: talk about on the show quite a bit. I now,
Speaker 1: considering the playoffs, I threw dan Quinn into the top three,
Speaker 1: but I still stuck with my original one two, which
Speaker 1: was Dan Campbell Andy Reid, I didn't feel like I
Speaker 1: wanted to be pushed off of that. But I now
Speaker 1: snuck Quinn in as third. And if you put John
Speaker 1: Payton in there, I wouldn't argue with you either.
Speaker 2: I had Andy Reid and then Dan Quinn and then
Speaker 2: Dan Campbell.
Speaker 1: Okay, And then there is an Assistant Coach of the
Speaker 1: Year award, and the finalists are really funny. Do you
Speaker 1: have any strong takes on this?
Speaker 2: Vic M Fink Fangio wins this award.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he might win the award, and that
Speaker 1: will be really funny to see the taped video that
Speaker 1: he sends into NFL Honors or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna be so grumpy. He's gonna be so mad.
Speaker 1: Joe Brady was nominated. By the way, Ben Johnson is
Speaker 1: a finalist if you didn't give it to Fangio and
Speaker 1: this guy is not a finalist. I always say with
Speaker 1: this award, it does not say Coordinator of the Year.
Speaker 1: It says assistant coach. So give me some Jeff Stoutland,
Speaker 1: Let's give him like a career Achievement award. You just
Speaker 1: turned Mackay Beckton and the Saquon season into absolute goal.
Speaker 1: New center Dickerson's like used to play like everything is
Speaker 1: my lot as a development case. So I'm giving my
Speaker 1: Assistant Coach of the Year to Jeff Stotlin. But I
Speaker 1: think Vic Fangio would be a great jow.
Speaker 2: Let's have him share it. I mean front side of
Speaker 2: the ball, backside of the ball, like you got it,
Speaker 2: like I love it, You've got it. And you know
Speaker 2: who would really love sharing it is Vic Fangio.
Speaker 1: So I don't think maybe I'm wrong. Actually, he probably
Speaker 1: would want the credit everyone wants.
Speaker 2: It was sarcasm, Greg, but he wants a little.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pat pat in the back. I was I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, I'm arguing to myself that what he doesn't
Speaker 1: care about awards. You know, he's a guy who's gonna
Speaker 1: be like, I don't care.
Speaker 2: But deep down, you know that's not true. They all
Speaker 2: care about awards.
Speaker 1: You know it cares.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to NFL Honors that is Thursday night.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to tonight downtown at the Belasco Theater. Again,
Speaker 1: if if you're listening to this on Monday, it's not
Speaker 1: it's not too late. If you're in the LA area
Speaker 1: and all the tickets UH will go to a great
Speaker 1: cause supporting wild fire relief efforts. Thank you, Jordan. I
Speaker 1: will see you tonight. I also see you on Tuesday
Speaker 1: because we're on the same plane, but I will see
Speaker 1: you on air on Wednesday. Hit the music, let''s get
Speaker 1: out of here. Thanks Jordan. Tuesday show and there will
Speaker 1: be a show. We'll be done at the Chris westleyan
Speaker 1: podcast studio with my friend Patrick Clabon. Might try to
Speaker 1: get another guest here before I go and get on
Speaker 1: that plane. And yeah, and we're just two days away
Speaker 1: from getting on that plane. You know, football is back.