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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. On Monday, April seventeenth,

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutors unsealed criminal charges accusing two men of helping

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Speaker 1: run an unauthorized Chinese police station, which is one of

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Speaker 1: more than one hundred around the world used to intimidate

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Speaker 1: and control Chinese citizens living in other countries. The two

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Speaker 1: men were arrested and charged with conspiring to act as

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Speaker 1: agents of the Chinese government and with obstructing justice. The

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Speaker 1: Chinese government in Beijing said the outposts aren't doing police work,

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Speaker 1: but Chinese state media reports say they quote collect intelligence

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Speaker 1: and solve crimes far outside their jurisdiction. And remember the

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Speaker 1: Chinese spy balloon incident in late January early February. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to have a conversation to really try to understand

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Speaker 1: just how much the Chinese Communist Party has infiltrated the

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Speaker 1: United States. So I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Aaron.

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Speaker 1: She is a Senior Research Fellow in International Affairs in

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Speaker 1: the Asian Studies Center at the Heritage Foundation. Aaron, welcome,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me on NEWTS World.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, mister speaker. It's wonderful to have the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with a secret police station, which I have

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Speaker 1: to confess when I first read about it, but I

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Speaker 1: thought it was almost unimaginable that it was actually there.

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Speaker 1: Can you sort of walk us through what is this

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Speaker 1: Chinese communist police station that was apparently in Lower Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in fact, just two miles from a major police

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Speaker 2: operation of the United States and New York. It's obviously

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Speaker 2: quite startling for anyone to hear such a thing because

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Speaker 2: it really impinges on our basic sovereignty here in the

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Speaker 2: United States. However, what we've learned is that this is

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Speaker 2: actually been set up since twenty twenty two. In February

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Speaker 2: twenty two, and the director of the FBI I mentioned

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Speaker 2: this in November of twenty two, and he said, this

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Speaker 2: is really an outrage. However, there were no arrests made

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Speaker 2: because obviously it turns out these are American citizens to

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Speaker 2: American citizens who have rights and protections as we all

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Speaker 2: do under the law, and so it took more time

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Speaker 2: to actually get the case ready to go. However, there's

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Speaker 2: probably about four of these in the United States, and

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Speaker 2: there's over one hundred and ten around the globe. But again,

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Speaker 2: US is really the major target for the United States,

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Speaker 2: and they've had operations, espionage operations, other types across the

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Speaker 2: United States as you well know, for the last twenty years.

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Speaker 2: So this is just the tip of the iceberg, and

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Speaker 2: what we're seeing unfold again very public and again you're

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Speaker 2: seeing it right on the heels of the balloon incident.

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Speaker 1: Why does the Chinese Communist government maintain these kind of

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Speaker 1: stations around the world.

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Speaker 2: The purpose is really to go after their own people.

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Speaker 2: They don't care to have any dissent whatsoever. Nothing can

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Speaker 2: be said about Jijiping or the Chinese Communist Party that

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Speaker 2: would undermine him or his rule, his totalitarian authoritarianism in

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Speaker 2: any way. And so therefore they've set up these operations

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Speaker 2: around the globe to go after their own citizens and

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Speaker 2: any dissidents that are here in America or in other countries,

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Speaker 2: mostly in urban centers around the world, and they threaten

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Speaker 2: these people. Many have been repatriated, thousands in fact, have

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Speaker 2: been repatriated back to the mainland of China, and they

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Speaker 2: just want to scare them from saying anything bad about

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Speaker 2: the CCP.

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Speaker 1: Do we know do they actually go after individual Chinese citizens?

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Speaker 3: They do.

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Speaker 2: In fact, these two reportedly were going after an individual

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Speaker 2: democracy promoter in Los Angeles, and so I don't know

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Speaker 2: what the outcome of that is.

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Speaker 3: We'll have to wait and see.

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Speaker 2: But they go after communities, they go after people's families,

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Speaker 2: and certainly they target individuals who are creating any problems

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Speaker 2: for the CCP, and problems in terms of speaking out,

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Speaker 2: not in terms of creating any unlawful actions.

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Speaker 1: The language actually given some of the other Biden administration

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Speaker 1: behavior towards China. Some of the language has been used

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Speaker 1: by American government officials. I particularly like the Acting Assistant

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Speaker 1: Director Kurt Ronoo of the FBI Counter Intelligence Division, who said,

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Speaker 1: and I'm quoting him, it is simply outrageous that China's

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Speaker 1: Ministry of Public Security thinks it can get away with

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Speaker 1: establishing a secret, a legal police station on US soil

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Speaker 1: to aid its efforts to export repression and subvert our

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Speaker 1: rule of law. This case serves as a powerful reminder

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Speaker 1: that the People's Republic of China will stop at nothing

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Speaker 1: to bend people to their will and silence messages they

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Speaker 1: don't want anyone to hear. The FBI is dedicated to

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Speaker 1: protecting everyone the United States against efforts to undermine our

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Speaker 1: democratic freedoms and will hold any state actors and those

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Speaker 1: who help them accountable for breaking our laws. I mean, actually,

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Speaker 1: what they were doing leaves them faced with some pretty

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Speaker 1: significant prison time, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's hope so, but it depends.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're on the loose today, so that they're free,

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Speaker 2: and according to the media, they said that they're not

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Speaker 2: a flight risk and they had taken their passports. But

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Speaker 2: they're just one of many, many that are going here.

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Speaker 2: And one of the biggest issues is that the Biden

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Speaker 2: administration actually dismantled the China Initiative, which the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: had set up to go after just these things. And

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Speaker 2: that's a real problem because it signals to the people

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Speaker 2: and the bureau and to the rest of the government,

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Speaker 2: certainly to the American people, that they don't care, that

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Speaker 2: this is not a big deal, they're not making it

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Speaker 2: a priority, and that they're not signaling in any way

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Speaker 2: that they're putting more money towards this effort and making

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Speaker 2: it one of the most important things in the United

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Speaker 2: States to secure the American people.

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Speaker 1: Apparently they'd have been doing this all around the world.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in Italy they actually did joint patrols with

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Speaker 1: the Italians in Rome, Milan, Naples and other centers. And

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Speaker 1: I knew from the time when Callista was the ambassador

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Speaker 1: of the Vatican that there were like one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: Chinese workers in northern Italy, but it's sort of astonishing

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Speaker 1: to think that they were actually Chinese police on patrol

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Speaker 1: with Italian policemen. Apparently they've now stopped that this effort

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Speaker 1: is really a worldwide effort by the People's Republic.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, and I think we're seeing it through all

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Speaker 2: the things that they've been initiating.

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Speaker 3: We've certainly seen it really.

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Speaker 2: More pronounced since Jijinping has come to office, and clearly,

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Speaker 2: starting in about twenty sixteen, the Trump administration had highlighted

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Speaker 2: that they were our most competitive, if not adversary, and

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Speaker 2: if we did not see that through what's happened in

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Speaker 2: the COVID cover up, I think it's time that the

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Speaker 2: United States we are beginning to but I think we

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Speaker 2: need to move at a much faster pace in addressing

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Speaker 2: the issue.

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Speaker 1: So apparently Safeguard Defenders, which is a human rights lation organization,

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Speaker 1: said that there are one hundred and ten overseas Chinese

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Speaker 1: police systems.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's part of this Operation fox Hunt, and they're

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Speaker 2: continuing to expand it. I think people around the globe

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Speaker 2: law enforcement need to make this a top priority because

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Speaker 2: it's really going to threaten American citizens and other citizens,

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Speaker 2: not to mention Chinese nationals that are overseas, if they

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Speaker 2: don't start doing something to start tearing these things down.

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Speaker 2: In the United States should really be at the forefront

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Speaker 2: of doing this. Clearly, the FBI has made these first

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Speaker 2: set of so called arrests and prosecutions. If we have

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Speaker 2: four more here, three more in the United States, when

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Speaker 2: is that going to unfold? I mean, we can't remain

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Speaker 2: in the dark on this.

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Speaker 1: Do you know where the other three are?

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Speaker 2: I've heard that one is in Los Angeles, another one

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Speaker 2: in New York City, and the fourth is in an

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Speaker 2: undisclosed location. That's just kind of wild, it is, I mean,

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Speaker 2: talk about the ultimate in undermining a nation's sovereignty.

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Speaker 1: Given the to toilitarian nature, which is I think gotten

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Speaker 1: much stronger under Jijenping. Were you surprised that they have

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Speaker 1: this worldwide police operation.

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Speaker 3: I was when I first heard it.

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Speaker 2: But when we're study more about Jijenping, and obviously the

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Speaker 2: nature of the Communist Party. Clearly one of their biggest

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Speaker 2: issues is the threat of their own security and empowerment,

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Speaker 2: and so with Jijenping, I think that brings on even

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Speaker 2: a higher level of paranoia. And so if there are

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Speaker 2: people around the world that have a voice, especially using

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Speaker 2: all the modern technology and social media, that are actually influencers,

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Speaker 2: that can have an impact, clearly, but they're ahead of

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Speaker 2: the game right now. They are impacting societies worldwide. I

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Speaker 2: think that this is their way of trying to combat that.

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Speaker 2: And the audacity of coming on the soil of the

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Speaker 2: United States is something that needs to be reckoned with

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Speaker 2: and immediately. And while those are nice words from the administration,

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Speaker 2: I believe that we need to come down much much

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Speaker 2: stronger and take action.

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Speaker 1: So what would you do, I mean, how would you

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Speaker 1: approach it that way?

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Speaker 2: First of all, I think we need to start looking

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Speaker 2: at the issue of reciprocity, which is something that the

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Speaker 2: United States is not focused on whatsoever, except perhaps in

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Speaker 2: the visa area. That Chinese are at liberty to do

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Speaker 2: all kinds of things in the United States, we're not

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Speaker 2: allowed to do it at all.

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Speaker 3: In China.

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Speaker 2: For one, everything from buying land to TikTok. For example,

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Speaker 2: Facebook and Google and our apps are not allowed in there,

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Speaker 2: and yet they're allowed to have it here in the

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Speaker 2: United States. So there's many, many different things. So reciprocity

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Speaker 2: is one. There's economic tools that.

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Speaker 3: We can use. There, sanctions that we can use.

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Speaker 2: But I think this is severe along with the public

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Speaker 2: the balloon incident, which is really horrifying.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the bloem and sent

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Speaker 1: Why do you find it horrifying? That's pretty strong language.

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Speaker 2: Well, because number one that they would come out obviously

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Speaker 2: and lie about it saying it's a weather balloon, which

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Speaker 2: they said got off course or whatever, and.

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Speaker 3: Would continue to do it.

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Speaker 2: And number two that this administration allowed it to go

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Speaker 2: across the United States while telling us that in fact,

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Speaker 2: we had the capability to jam the system, so that

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Speaker 2: in fact, the information that they were gathering through their

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Speaker 2: esponage efforts, we're being stopped and we're not able to

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Speaker 2: get back to Beijing. Well that's not correct at all,

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Speaker 2: and we found that information out since recovering the remains

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Speaker 2: of the b and to let it literally do the

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Speaker 2: eights and to hang out over our critical infrastructure, our

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Speaker 2: most important, critical infrastructure to gather visuals of that is,

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Speaker 2: as I said, it's really terrifying. And then to find

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Speaker 2: out that there has been three others that have actually

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Speaker 2: been in the United States, two or three coming from

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Speaker 2: the South that we were not able to even find.

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Speaker 2: So I think this whole thing is something that is

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Speaker 2: not being addressed in a comprehensive manner. Perhaps the Secretary

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Speaker 2: of State stopped his trip for a little while, but

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Speaker 2: they're begging to have that trip go back on and

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Speaker 2: to continue discussions and negotiations, and I think that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: I almost feel like if the Montana newspaper had not

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Speaker 1: published the picture, we would never have been told that

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Speaker 1: this balloon was going across the.

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Speaker 2: US never, I promise you, if they had not had

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Speaker 2: a good lens on that camera, there's not a chance

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Speaker 2: that we would all be talking about it at the

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Speaker 2: kitchen table.

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Speaker 1: And I can't understand why the Biden administration until it

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Speaker 1: left US and had finished its job before they shot

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Speaker 1: it down. But they could shoot it down, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's always talking about well collateral damage if

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Speaker 1: it came down, But the truth is, if you're over

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Speaker 1: in Montana, other than occasional grizzly bears. You're not in

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Speaker 1: grave danger of hitting anybody if you bring down the balloon,

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Speaker 1: not at all.

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Speaker 2: And if you let people know in advance that here

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Speaker 2: is the territory, which we already knew because it had

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Speaker 2: been captured on a camera, and advised people to get

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Speaker 2: out of the way, is quite clear that I think

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Speaker 2: that they weren't trying to protect lives. That they were

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Speaker 2: trying to do that, they wouldn't have allowed it to

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Speaker 2: go on as long as it did and shoot it

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Speaker 2: down over the ocean.

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Speaker 1: In some areas, the Biden administration is being fairly tough

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Speaker 1: and taking some risk. In other areas, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: totally failing to respond. How do you interpret the dramatic

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Speaker 1: differences in how we're trying to deal with China in

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration.

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Speaker 2: I think that the Biden administration is looking at it

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Speaker 2: more as transactional. I think there's clearly division within their

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Speaker 2: administration as to what they want to achieve in terms

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Speaker 2: of climate change and the transition to green energy, and

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Speaker 2: I think in terms of that they want to accomplish

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Speaker 2: a lot with China with a communist party, and every

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Speaker 2: time something like this happens, it's a setback. They want

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Speaker 2: to engage, and so they know they have to do something,

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Speaker 2: and therefore they put strong export controls on in October

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Speaker 2: on some of the key semiconductor technology. But there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of loopholes until you have really a whole of

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Speaker 2: government approach that takes a very strong look at this,

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Speaker 2: which we have enough information now to make those tough decisions,

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Speaker 2: but there's pros and cons to every decision, and so

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Speaker 2: I think that they view it every action as a

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Speaker 2: con and that's unfortunate because it's really setting back the

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Speaker 2: United States a tremendous amount right now. Is that Chinese

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Speaker 2: Communist Party continues to grow more aggressively every single day

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Speaker 2: in every sector.

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Speaker 1: We started by talking about the two Chinese nationals who

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Speaker 1: had been arrested for running a police station in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: but it's also true that about the same time, there

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Speaker 1: were criminal complaints filed by the US Attorney's Office in

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Speaker 1: New York charging forty four different defendants with various crimes

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Speaker 1: related to the National Police of China, all of them

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Speaker 1: focused on going after and harassing Chinese nationals who reside

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Speaker 1: in New York and elsewhere in the US. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of astonishing to think that there are at

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Speaker 1: least forty people identified by the US government from China

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Speaker 1: trying to reach in using cyber tools to harass people

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Speaker 1: living in the United States. These are almost acts of war.

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Speaker 1: They're certainly acts of Cold war.

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Speaker 2: They certainly are acts of Cold war. And in fact,

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Speaker 2: thank you for bringing that up, because Heritage just launched

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Speaker 2: about two.

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Speaker 3: Weeks ago a.

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Speaker 2: Really terrific paper call Winning the Cold War, and it's

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Speaker 2: really a plan for countering China.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Debate about calling it a new Cold War, but I

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Speaker 2: think where we are right now, it's China that declared

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Speaker 2: the war on the United States many many years ago

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Speaker 2: and has been doing things just like you're talking about

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Speaker 2: to really take advantage of who the United States is

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Speaker 2: and where we are, and to aggressively try to undermine

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Speaker 2: us in every way. And so this is about a

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twelve page paper which is really a

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Speaker 2: comprehensive policy agenda that is focused on two things, really

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Speaker 2: securing America's prosperous future as well as confronting China as

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Speaker 2: the greatest threat in US history, which is what we're

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Speaker 2: dealing with right now it's a terrific paper, and I'd

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Speaker 2: be happy to discuss that in more detail if you

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Speaker 2: have any interest.

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Speaker 1: I'm very interested in the whole approach you've taken in

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Speaker 1: the paper you've written.

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Speaker 2: It was a huge group of people that came together

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Speaker 2: and decided there's a lot of various issue papers out there,

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Speaker 2: but someone needs to really come together and put together

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Speaker 2: a comprehensive plan that will not only talk about the issues,

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Speaker 2: but will prescribe some policy solutions. And that's exactly what

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Speaker 2: this paper does. And so it's broken down into five

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Speaker 2: different areas that are easily digestible. Protect the homeland, US prosperity,

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Speaker 2: diminishing CCP influence, which is what we've just been talking about,

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Speaker 2: and holding them accountable, reorient in the US defense posture,

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Speaker 2: and then exercising global leadership. So those are really the

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Speaker 2: five key areas. And I must say, mister Speaker, that

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Speaker 2: this really compliments the book that you had in twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen where you really laid out a great case for

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Speaker 2: addressing this issue and laid out the six stages and

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Speaker 2: that sort of a thing, and.

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Speaker 3: This takes it to a new level.

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Speaker 2: But as everyone here at Heritage says, it's just a

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Speaker 2: starting point.

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Speaker 1: When Claire Christiansen and I set out to write Trump

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Speaker 1: Versus China, I found that one of my key assumptions

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Speaker 1: was totally wrong. It was a very humbling process of

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Speaker 1: having to re educate myself because I was one of

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Speaker 1: those who thought that when Dung Chaopeng made the Great

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Speaker 1: Southern Tour and talked about the need to move to

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Speaker 1: a market economy, that that was in fact a step

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Speaker 1: towards opening up the system. And it was only when

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Speaker 1: I went back and reviewed Dung Haopeng's life and realized

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Speaker 1: that he was a founding member of the original group

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Speaker 1: that created the Chinese Commnis Party, and he spent a

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Speaker 1: full year in Moscow at Lennon University, that it finally

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Speaker 1: hit me. What he was saying, which I think almost

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Speaker 1: nobody in the West understood, was not we need to

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Speaker 1: open up as a society. What he was saying was

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Speaker 1: people are going to be very upse except with us

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Speaker 1: unless we can provide prosperity. The only system that will

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Speaker 1: provide prosperity is a market system. So we need to

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Speaker 1: go to a market system for the purpose of strengthening

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Speaker 1: the dictatorship. He actually wanted a stronger tou toulitarian society,

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Speaker 1: which is I think the total opposite of what people

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Speaker 1: had interpreted, including me. And we operated in a variety

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Speaker 1: of steps, including admitting China to the World Trade Organization,

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Speaker 1: on this belief that we were encouraging their opening up,

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Speaker 1: when in fact, with the exception of a very small

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Speaker 1: number of their leaders, the overwhelming majority of their leaders

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Speaker 1: had zero interest in opening up and every interest in

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Speaker 1: exploiting us for the purpose of strengthening their dictatorship. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is that a reasonable interpretation of what we actually lived through.

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Speaker 2: Many of our firms are still there hoping for that

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Speaker 2: exact same thing. And I think we thought if we

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Speaker 2: had a McDonald's on every corner in all thirty one

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Speaker 2: provinces and we began to help support the income coming

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Speaker 2: up and relieve their poverty, that all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: they would want to be like us in the world's

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Speaker 2: biggest democracy. And it is so far from the truth,

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Speaker 2: as you said.

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Speaker 3: Although let's not make any statements.

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Speaker 2: Really we can say that about the CCP, but about

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Speaker 2: the Chinese people themselves. I mean, look, what they've been

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Speaker 2: living under is a real strain from the Cultural Revolution

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Speaker 2: and the Great leap forward.

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Speaker 1: I think what we've learned is if we had a

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Speaker 1: McDonald's in every corner, you have a very well fed

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Speaker 1: police state.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. No, you were totally right, There's no

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Speaker 3: question about it. But you hit it.

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Speaker 2: You nailed it right on with that book, and that

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Speaker 2: was really a fore runner of this Heritage paper, and

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Speaker 2: we looked at that closely.

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Speaker 1: On our show page. We're going to link to the

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Speaker 1: Heritage Paper. Oh great, look, I think it's really important.

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Speaker 1: One of the purposes of doing these podcasts is to

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Speaker 1: bring our listeners in touch with the most recent and

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Speaker 1: the most authoritative kind of approach to where the US

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Speaker 1: has to not just on China, but across the board.

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Speaker 1: But I want to come back to the Chinese Compani's

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Speaker 1: party activities because one of the things they've done that's

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Speaker 1: fascinated me and the Claire and I worked on in

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration. There are about one hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 1: colleges that have received gifts or contracts are both from

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Speaker 1: the Chinese Communists just in the period twenty thirteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Bloomberg did an analysis of it, Harvard had

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Speaker 1: twelve contracts totaling eleven million dollars and ten gifts totaling

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Speaker 1: sixty four million dollars. So Harvard got from communist China

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Speaker 1: in those five years seventy six million bucks. NYU New

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Speaker 1: York University got something like forty seven million. But what

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Speaker 1: fascinated me was the University of Pennsylvania and the University

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Speaker 1: of Delaware both had a Biden relationship and both got

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Speaker 1: huge amounts of money after Biden related to them. And

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Speaker 1: yet none of this has ever been public, none of

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Speaker 1: us have ever been accounted for transparently. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: the current Secretary of State I believe, made a million

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Speaker 1: dollars running the Pen Biden Center, and of course the

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Speaker 1: Biden secret documents, And now that we're all worried about

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Speaker 1: the secrecy violated by this twenty one year old Air

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Speaker 1: National guardsmen, there were a whole series of secret documents

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Speaker 1: that were actually in the Chinese sponsored Pen Biden Center,

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Speaker 1: which is actually located in Chinatown. You can't make this up.

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Speaker 3: No, you cannot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you interpret the whole Chinese effort

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Speaker 1: to penetrate American higher education.

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Speaker 2: It's brilliant, it's been so comprehensive and right under our

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Speaker 2: noses and the universities were eager for funding and for

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Speaker 2: students that were paying full bore, and so.

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Speaker 3: They got it.

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Speaker 2: They literally literally bought their way in and then started

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Speaker 2: making enormous gifts to these universities, setting up centers, Yale

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Speaker 2: House Centers, do Past Centers, the SI Center at Yale,

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Speaker 2: and Joe Sai is an owner of an NBA team,

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Speaker 2: and look at how the NBA has been influenced by

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Speaker 2: Chinese culture and Hollywood. It's just really extraordinary. But getting

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Speaker 2: back to your point about the universities, so it's not

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Speaker 2: only in the donations in terms of the buildings and

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Speaker 2: funding of students so painful tuition versus other students having

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Speaker 2: to receive financial aid. It's also been in research as well,

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Speaker 2: which is an extreme problem, certainly in the STEM areas

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Speaker 2: as well, but also in terms of setting up Confucius Institutes,

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Speaker 2: which they'd done and during the Trump administration, as you

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Speaker 2: well know, there was a huge push to get rid

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Speaker 2: of the Confucius institutes and most universities did bring them down.

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Speaker 2: There's about eight left. However, the funding is continued and

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Speaker 2: it just happens to be named something else at this

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Speaker 2: point and scarier than even the university systems is really

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Speaker 2: the K through twelve education, which they've tried to influence

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Speaker 2: by setting up Confucius classrooms across the United States, many

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Speaker 2: of which are still flourishing.

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Speaker 1: This has been a very methodical attempt with a strategic,

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Speaker 1: long term goal by the Chinese communists to basically penetrate

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Speaker 1: and infiltrate American society.

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Speaker 2: That's right to do that for a couple of purposes,

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Speaker 2: one for espionage purposes, and also to influence American perception

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Speaker 2: and bias towards China, so that they would really have

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Speaker 2: an underline support system that would get people to view

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Speaker 2: the CCP in a positive light, that would view the

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Speaker 2: way that both you and I and the rest of

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Speaker 2: America had viewed China as opening up. They still continued

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Speaker 2: to do that by throwing out crumbs to firms on

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Speaker 2: Wall Street and other firms to say, we are going

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Speaker 2: to open up as a free society. Look at all

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Speaker 2: the opportunities we have here. And so people believe that

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Speaker 2: there's many consul generals across the United States and the ambassador.

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Speaker 2: They are out there teaching and giving speeches at US

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Speaker 2: universities and talking about the greatness of China. And that's

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Speaker 2: the United States is putting all this imposition on the

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Speaker 2: relationship and causing all the stress and strain. And there's

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Speaker 2: small colleges in the United States as well as large

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Speaker 2: ones that are allowing for that. And yet again I

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Speaker 2: go back to reciprocity. Our ambassador and the consul generals

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Speaker 2: across China are not allowed to go out and speak

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Speaker 2: at a Chinese university and cut down or even remark

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Speaker 2: on the CCP.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't it make sense for us to basically say, if

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Speaker 1: we can't do it, you can't.

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Speaker 2: Either, exactly, rather than getting into a huge fight about everything.

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Speaker 2: I think the United States if they just said that,

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Speaker 2: that would shut down a lot of conversation.

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Speaker 1: One of the strategic threats to the United States. We

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Speaker 1: have thirty five minerals that are critical to our national

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Speaker 1: defense and economic growth in our manufacturing base, and for

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Speaker 1: twenty of the thirty five twenty we're one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: dependent on imports, and China in many ways as consciously

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Speaker 1: set out to dominate the production of minerals. So when

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Speaker 1: people talk about, for example, electric vehicles, much of the

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Speaker 1: batteries are going to come from China. In fact, I

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Speaker 1: think Ford motor companies now signed a contract to have

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Speaker 1: a Chinese company in Michigan building a three billion dollar

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Speaker 1: battery factory which will ultimately use material from China, given

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Speaker 1: that they can cut off the shipment of that material

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Speaker 1: anytime they want to. Isn't that sort of insane in

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Speaker 1: terms of national security?

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Speaker 2: It absolutely is. And that's just one example. I mean

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Speaker 2: in terms of that, we do not have the processing

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Speaker 2: and manufacturing availability here to do that. In the United States.

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Speaker 2: We have plenty of critical minerals that are here. However,

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Speaker 2: we have so many regulations on that for environmental purposes,

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Speaker 2: different types of regulations that prohibit mining here in the

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Speaker 2: United States. And I think the United States really needs

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Speaker 2: to go back to the way it was during the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration, where there was deregulation and a focus on

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Speaker 2: being energy independent, in fact, a net energy exporter, which

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00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: we were, and now we are totally dependent. And as

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00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 2: we go towards these evs and the transition to green energy,

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00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, that's where it comes out of China,

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00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: solar panels, wind turbines, and obviously the batteries for the evs,

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Speaker 2: and we're just killing ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I think your paper indicates that the Chinese are modernizing

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Speaker 1: dramatically faster than we are, and that we're literally falling

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Speaker 1: behind in our ability to hold them to account militarily.

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Speaker 2: I think that the Chinese have invested a tremendous amounts

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00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: billions of dollars over the last several years, not only

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Speaker 2: in terms of modernizing their equipment, but building and modernizing

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00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: their equipment, but also their troop levels. The difference right

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00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: now that we have Technologically, they are advanced in a

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00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: number of different areas, and I would say in terms

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00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: of their troop mobility, they don't have what we have

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00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: because they have not fought a war in decades, but

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Speaker 2: they are extremely advanced in the military sete, and I

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00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: think that's something that we need to be focused on,

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Speaker 2: particularly as it pertains to Taiwan.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at all that we really have

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00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: to come to grips with how much China is now

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00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: definitely a competitor and potentially an enemy that we have

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Speaker 1: to be prepared to change in ways that enable us

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Speaker 1: to not just compete with them, but to ensure that

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Speaker 1: they can't in any serious way threaten us. And I

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Speaker 1: think the paper that you and your colleagues have produced

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00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: on the new Cold War is very timely and very

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00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: badly needed.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you, and a lot of work went into this.

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00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: We brought in experts from thirty different places who actually

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00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: prepared part of the documentation and sections, so what we

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00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: call them was wedges. So under each of the categories

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00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 2: that I had mentioned, the five categories, there's several different

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00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: just one page topics that are just brief read So

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00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: if you are interested in that, you can go and

501
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: you can get a sample of what we're talking about,

502
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: and then policy how to implement it, and then bringing

503
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: on allies. Here's the issue, here's a potential solution, and

504
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: what we want is really this to get out there

505
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: to start working with Congress, working with state and local officials.

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00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: And the American people.

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00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: So we're going to be having this is really the

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00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 2: top of the pyramid, and then we're going to have

509
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: a number of products that really go down from there

510
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: to get this information out.

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Speaker 1: The Heritage Foundation played a very significant role in the

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00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: transition for the Reagan administration and then helping us win

513
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: the Cold War with the Soviet Union, and I think

514
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: here once again as an institution that Heritage is playing

515
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: a very significant role and helping us better understand what

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00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: we're going to have to do to remain safe and

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00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: free and prosperous. Aaron, I want to thank you for

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00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: joining me, and I want to thank you for the

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00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: work you're doing. And I hope you'll say to your

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00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: colleague at Heritage how much I admire the work they're

521
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: doing and how much we urge people to read the

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00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: new Heritage document on winning the New Cold War. Thank

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00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: you very much for doing this well.

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00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

525
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: It's our fifty year anniversary this week, so it's coming

526
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: in a really good time.

527
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: And thank you, mister Speaker.

528
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: For all the great work that you have done in

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00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: bringing about this whole China threat.

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00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Aaron Walsh. You can learn

531
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: more about the CCP in America on our show page

532
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by gingridh three

533
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan and

534
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show

535
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team at

536
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: Gingrid three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope

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Speaker 1: you'll go to I'm sorry. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld,

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Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate

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Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so

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Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now listeners

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Speaker 1: of Newtsworld consigner from my three free weekly columns at

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00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: gingristhree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This

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Speaker 1: is Newtsworld