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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. We're gonna bring in

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Speaker 1: Thriyan Smallock right now. He is a principal and portfolio

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Speaker 1: manager at hood River Capital Management. They have three and

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Speaker 1: a half billion dollars under management and UM on a

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Speaker 1: day like today, when we're seeing some volatility but not

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Speaker 1: a lot of movement in stocks, does it feel peaky

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Speaker 1: to you? Does it feel like we're hitting um the

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Speaker 1: top As far as this market is concerned, we don't

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Speaker 1: think it's peaky. We're constructive at this point. I think

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Speaker 1: the market has just been digesting huge games over the

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Speaker 1: last twelve to eighteen months. Folks are worried about inflation

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Speaker 1: starting to pick up with with the economic backdrop flowing somewhat,

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Speaker 1: but we think earnings revisions are gonna be positive from here.

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Speaker 1: Most companies that we talked to, we talked around four

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Speaker 1: public trade companies every quarter. In small cap, we think

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Speaker 1: demand is really strong and costs are relatively contained. Street

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Speaker 1: estimates to move up and valuations three attractive. So we

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Speaker 1: think as earning season plays out this quarter and over

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Speaker 1: the next couple of quarters, the market will move up

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Speaker 1: with earnings and and you want to be in stocks.

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Speaker 1: You guys are in small caps, smaller caps, small big caps, Bryant,

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Speaker 1: UH give us a sense of how those performing, how

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Speaker 1: you think they should perform going forward. So year today,

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Speaker 1: small cap has lagged the S and P five hundred,

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Speaker 1: the Rustle two thousands behind approximately five basis points of

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Speaker 1: the Rustle two dozen growth, which is our primary benchmark,

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Speaker 1: where small cap growth investors is only up five per cent. UH.

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Speaker 1: We think that the value we should for small cap

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Speaker 1: versus large cap is particularly attractive, especially we look at

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Speaker 1: small cap growth valuations on a relative basis or a

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Speaker 1: parody on a pe basis for next year, usually at

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Speaker 1: the premium because you have higher growth. Which comes back

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Speaker 1: to what I said earlier, where if earnings come through

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Speaker 1: in small cap companies and in large cap companies, they're

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Speaker 1: both what they're gonna move up, but small cap is

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Speaker 1: gonna move up more than large cap. What are the

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Speaker 1: biggest head winds to that? To earnings growth, Inflation is

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Speaker 1: probably the biggest headwind um. Also, if you get to

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Speaker 1: slow down internationally in places like China, that that that

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Speaker 1: would be a that would be a head wind um.

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Speaker 1: And so far companies are managing it pretty well, especially

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Speaker 1: in small cap. They're pretty nimble. They've been able to adjust.

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Speaker 1: But if wages move up significantly and demand slows down,

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Speaker 1: that would also be a bad recipe. But right now

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Speaker 1: we aren't seeing evidence that that tilts us negative. The

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Speaker 1: CEO of Phillips this morning said his problems are chips

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Speaker 1: and ships, so he's having a real problem getting stuff

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Speaker 1: shipped around h Prices are very high for that and

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Speaker 1: he's having a real problem getting the chips he needs

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Speaker 1: to put in his products. Yeah, so I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's a surprised anyone or any of the companies we

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Speaker 1: talked to at this point. They've been able to navigate

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Speaker 1: that situation. And that's baked end of people's estimates going forward,

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Speaker 1: which again that's why I come back to it. Demands

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Speaker 1: better and supply chains us enough, which I think in

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Speaker 1: general that's going to happen. Uh, then you can see

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Speaker 1: an upper provision to earnings estimates as that works through

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Speaker 1: the system over the next nine to twelve months. All right, Brian,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earnings were just starting to get really into

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Speaker 1: the thick of things here. We had some good numbers

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Speaker 1: out of some of the big financials last week. What

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Speaker 1: are you going to be listening for and looking for

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Speaker 1: this quarter? So what we like in small cap is

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Speaker 1: that you can find stocks that are and efficiently priced,

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Speaker 1: where the analysts estimates uh tend to be a little

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Speaker 1: bit stale, you have less analysts are covering them, and

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Speaker 1: so you can buy good companies with good valuations where

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Speaker 1: the fundamentals for the companies that we buy or be

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Speaker 1: better that with embedded in street expectations. So we have

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Speaker 1: around a hundred stocks of the portfolio and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be monitoring the amount a case by case basis bottoms

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Speaker 1: up as to whether or not delivering on the on

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Speaker 1: the key performance metrics for for that particular business and

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Speaker 1: in general, I expect things to be really strong across

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Speaker 1: the board, which which I think is good in almost

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Speaker 1: every sector. UH, based on a lot of macro factors

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Speaker 1: that you've talked about, kind of baked in the numbers,

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Speaker 1: demands super strong. When you look at I mean speaking

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Speaker 1: of consumers, when you look at the savings rates here,

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Speaker 1: do do they spend it back down to the historical average?

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Speaker 1: I think so, Um, we're overweight consumer right now. UH.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of UH stocks in small cap

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Speaker 1: where they're priced at median or historical valuations, and we're

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Speaker 1: seeing the consumer come back and a lot of stocks

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Speaker 1: that we are one of our biggest positions to Sea World,

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Speaker 1: for example, which which has been a really good stock

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Speaker 1: and demand is accelerating. They're based on consumers wanting to

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Speaker 1: get back out and about evaluations attractive and they've really

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Speaker 1: worked through a good margin profile business. I like that one.

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Speaker 1: All right, Brian, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: We always appreciate chatting with you. Getting an update on

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Speaker 1: the world of small cap stocks. Brian Smaller. Brian Smaller

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Speaker 1: principal portfolio managered Hood River Capital Management three point three

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in assets under management. Looking at the small

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Speaker 1: cap stocks and again is Brian was mentioning they've underperformed

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Speaker 1: UH this year. But I think a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: fund managers have exposure to the small caps, particularly if you,

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Speaker 1: you know, part of your cyclical trade, particularly part of

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Speaker 1: the reopening trade. A lot of fun managers looking for

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Speaker 1: exposure with small cap stocks think that they can get

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Speaker 1: some better bank for the buck in terms of a

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Speaker 1: reopening economy and the impact that that could have on

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Speaker 1: smaller companies. Now, let's bring in David Diets out of Summit,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey's a managing principle and senior portfolio strategists at

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Speaker 1: Peapack Private Wealth Management, where they have nine point eight

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Speaker 1: billion dollars of assets under management. David, I find today's

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Speaker 1: market really interesting, as we're seeing such a jump in

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Speaker 1: rates globally on the short end of the curve in

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Speaker 1: it mostly in two years and in some five years

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Speaker 1: UM and we saw here in Europe a sell off

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Speaker 1: in stock so it was bonds down, stocks down, and

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Speaker 1: everyone this morning was talking about the sixty forty portfolio.

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Speaker 1: What's your take on the age old construction? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think stocks are making at least the

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Speaker 1: United States here hugging the flatline after one of the

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Speaker 1: strongest weeks since July. Pretty good showing, given um those

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Speaker 1: concerns on on inflation and and so forth, that you

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Speaker 1: just mentioned Um, you know, I think equity investors have

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Speaker 1: to take a long term view here. Valuations are high,

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Speaker 1: blasphemy all the time. Is this the right time to

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Speaker 1: invest in? All I can say is this is the

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Speaker 1: wrong time to be in cash and and most of

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Speaker 1: fixed income, because of course, you know, the only thing

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Speaker 1: more expensive than stocks are our bonds, the fidel cash

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Speaker 1: reserves yielding one hundred of one percent. And we know

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Speaker 1: inflation is here. Inflation is gonna get worse. We don't

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Speaker 1: know how transitory or permanent maybe, but this is a

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Speaker 1: tough time to just be sitting there in cash. And

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Speaker 1: so I think we're seeing, particularly among retail investors that

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Speaker 1: continuing by the diet mentality, and of course we just

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Speaker 1: had to kick off their earnings week last week. Um

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Speaker 1: of the companies of reports so far top earnings per

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Speaker 1: share expectations that should be a great earning season, and

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Speaker 1: in so things actually look reasonable for equity investors going forward. Here,

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Speaker 1: David I c W T, I Crew Oil and North

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Speaker 1: of Barrel, How do I play this in the stock market?

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Speaker 1: So Um, I think that UH investors should of course

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Speaker 1: stay diversified, and of course energy stocks are up six

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Speaker 1: year to date, but there may be more room to go.

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Speaker 1: And and here's why. Although normally the cure for high

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Speaker 1: prices is higher prices, we've got a situation here where

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Speaker 1: energy producers don't want to produce because um, you know, governments,

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Speaker 1: policy makers, banks are telling them, no, you've got to

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Speaker 1: go green, and so they're saying, well, why should I

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Speaker 1: invest it? Take advantage of these higher prices, because that's

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Speaker 1: not the future. So you could have a situation and

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Speaker 1: I think we do have a situation where supplies kind

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Speaker 1: of dwindle or stay constant. Meanwhile, and and therefore, but

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Speaker 1: consumers and users cannot switch over to green sources as

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Speaker 1: quickly as possible. And of course, what we've heard from

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Speaker 1: the UK is some of the hope for green sources,

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Speaker 1: for example, wind have not been as productive as hope

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Speaker 1: because wind speeds have died down. Who knew, but that's

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Speaker 1: what we have. It hasn't been very windy here. Apparently.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to your stock picks, David, Um, what do

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Speaker 1: you like in the US? We'll gets you pumped in

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Speaker 1: the morning. What do you what do you what are

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Speaker 1: you excited to recommend when somebody asks um for a pick?

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Speaker 1: So you know, tying into that energy theme. We do

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Speaker 1: think that UM energy stocks are still well off their

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Speaker 1: all time highs, have great dividends, are being very conservative

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Speaker 1: about spending money for new production and rather returning money

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Speaker 1: to shaubles in the form of higher dividends and stock buybacks.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the bluest of all the blue

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Speaker 1: ships is Chevron Um, you know, with about a four

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Speaker 1: percent dividend, very low price to earnings ratio. The stock

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Speaker 1: was at one point well over on thirty. I think

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Speaker 1: it's in low hundreds right now. UM even if some

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Speaker 1: energy even if there's volatility and some energy companies go under,

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Speaker 1: you know, that just works out better for your your

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Speaker 1: ultimate blue chip here, which is Chevron. So that's one

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Speaker 1: we would like. The other areas, I think investors have

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Speaker 1: to look at his healthcare and I'm not quite sure why.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of reasons, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of the healthcare stocks, despite the fact that is the

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Speaker 1: healthcare companies that are getting us to the other side

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Speaker 1: of the valley in terms of COVID nineteen, are just

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Speaker 1: way out of favor by investors. So one I would

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Speaker 1: say here is Bristol Myers squib is at a fifty

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Speaker 1: two week low. Uh, you've got like a three point

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Speaker 1: seven percent divid in which is more than twice which

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Speaker 1: the yield on the s trading about eight times earnings.

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Speaker 1: And what I like about Bristol Myers is they fine

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Speaker 1: tune their focus onto oncology into immunology. Those are the

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Speaker 1: areas of the healthcare thing where people don't worry about prices.

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Speaker 1: When you've got cancer, people will pay what it takes.

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Speaker 1: And so they've got the highest origin focus here. And

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Speaker 1: what I like is they've got a great R and

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Speaker 1: D pipeline, but they're great in terms of acquiring other

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Speaker 1: companies to augment that pipeline. Of course, they made a

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Speaker 1: big deal with Selgy not too long ago, which gives

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Speaker 1: him all the cell gene products. So Bristol Myers fifty

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Speaker 1: two week old, great dividend. What's not to like here?

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Speaker 1: David Diets, thank you so much for joining us. We

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Speaker 1: always appreciate chatting with you, getting your thoughts on these markets,

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Speaker 1: on some specific names that you like at this time.

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Speaker 1: David Diets is a managing principle and senior portfolio strategist

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Speaker 1: at Pepeck Private Wealth Management. They about nine point eight

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in assets on their management. Uh, and he

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Speaker 1: is located in the bucolic town of some of New Jersey. Matt,

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Speaker 1: maybe you should think about Summit. We come back to

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Speaker 1: the do you know I absolutely love Summit and um no, seriously,

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Speaker 1: and some of my closest friends lived there. The thing is,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to commute to Penn Station. Yeah, good point.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine the worst place to go than Penn Steve,

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Speaker 1: But I'll give you this, mat there really finally finally

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Speaker 1: doing a huge renovation of pet Penn Station. So we

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Speaker 1: can only done by the time my daughters in college. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: I've been waiting for this for thirty years, but they're

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Speaker 1: finally starting to get it done here, so we'll see

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Speaker 1: what happens. Now, let's get over to Janelle Woodword, president

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Speaker 1: of Mackay Shields. They have hundred six two billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in assets under management, and Janelle, I think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: you have tested some market correction scenarios, all of which

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Speaker 1: don't seem terribly unlikely. A resurgence of the virus, persistence

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Speaker 1: of inflation, credit problems in China. What's your biggest concern?

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Speaker 1: What's the biggest headwind. Yeah, sure, I think that's a

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Speaker 1: great point. I mean, I think if we look back

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Speaker 1: over the third quarter of those scenarios, we tested um

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Speaker 1: and we saw some volatility of the market, but really

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Speaker 1: we saw investors continue to engage in sponsor risk assets.

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Speaker 1: So because there's some competence as we see some headline

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Speaker 1: related noise that investors are going to to need to

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Speaker 1: stay engaged. But to your question, what are we watching?

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Speaker 1: Certainly right now, we're watching inflation data, UM, We're watching rates,

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Speaker 1: and we're watching the fed UM as we look forward

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Speaker 1: to really you know how we'll wait expect markets to

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Speaker 1: unfold over the bounce of one and into twenty two.

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Speaker 1: So I'm actually a big believer in the wall of warrior.

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Speaker 1: I'm a natural warrior, Janelle. Given that, how should I

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Speaker 1: be thinking about these markets? What are you guys doing

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Speaker 1: in terms of positioning your portfolios here given what we

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Speaker 1: do know about all those macro issues you just mentioned. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think what we're really thoughtful about is is creating

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Speaker 1: flexibility and optionality, And I think one of the things

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Speaker 1: that matters right now a lot is liquidity. Both as

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Speaker 1: we think about the unknown to the market is as

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Speaker 1: you rightly highlight UM but also appreciate that that markets

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Speaker 1: continue to trade to trade pretty well. But we want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we have liquidity freed up to

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Speaker 1: take take advantage of volatility as it presents itself. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think actually when it comes to fixed income, we're

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Speaker 1: looking for some inflation protection structures and portfolios staying a

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Speaker 1: little bit shorter interest rate UM. But we do remain

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Speaker 1: fundamentally constructive, and we think that there's still significant opportunity

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Speaker 1: in in credit markets in particular, we're we're in credit markets. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, some some areas that we're really

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Speaker 1: focused on is on the consumer side, the housing side, UM,

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Speaker 1: and we still think there's some select albeit less opportunities

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Speaker 1: in some of the COVID recovery sectors. UM. So some

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Speaker 1: of those are some areas that that we're focused on

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Speaker 1: UM as we kind of construct portfolios, But we certainly

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Speaker 1: do appreciate when we step back and look at aggregate

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Speaker 1: spreads and what things look like that markets are certainly

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Speaker 1: not as cheap as they were several months ago. All Right,

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Speaker 1: given that valuation concern, which I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people certainly have, UM, it makes this earnings period that

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Speaker 1: we're really starting to get into the teeth of right now.

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Speaker 1: This week all that more important for many investors. Do

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Speaker 1: you know, what are you looking for from these earning reports?

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Speaker 1: We had the fanciers last week, pretty strong numbers across

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Speaker 1: the board. What are you looking for going forward? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I'd hadlight two things that we're looking for.

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Speaker 1: The first things we really are watching the margin story,

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Speaker 1: and this ties back to the earlier conversation on inflation,

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Speaker 1: on how supply team pressures and energy price pressures in

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Speaker 1: particular are really flowing through earning statements and to what

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Speaker 1: extent those are not being passed on to the end customer.

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Speaker 1: I think the other thing that we're watching from a

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Speaker 1: fixed income perspective is really thinking about balance sheets. The

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Speaker 1: strength of corporate balance sheets has been really important for

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Speaker 1: the overall credit sector to whether this period, and now

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Speaker 1: we're at the point of time where we're looking how

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Speaker 1: how our entities redeploying cash um and are they doing

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Speaker 1: in a way that that is supportive of both long

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Speaker 1: term business trends but also savor bolt of creditors. What

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Speaker 1: um how much return can you back to be from

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Speaker 1: real focus on E s G. I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: give up some return in order to do the right thing,

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Speaker 1: or can you still make as much money as you

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Speaker 1: want to and you know, um not invest in big

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Speaker 1: E S G centers. You know, it's it's a great question,

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Speaker 1: especially if we think about credit markets through that lens

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Speaker 1: and recognize who issues in those markets and what does

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Speaker 1: it look like. And I will say, you know, going

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Speaker 1: back to portfolios, we are seeing a broadening of what

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Speaker 1: it means a fiduciary duty and what it looks like

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Speaker 1: and how do we think about materiality specifically within within

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Speaker 1: fixing com portfolios. And it's something we're very thoughtful about.

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Speaker 1: I think the academic studies have been mixed and are

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Speaker 1: still evolving in terms of this potential trade off between

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Speaker 1: returns and E S and G factors. But it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've recently I worked with Excellnal consulting firm

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Speaker 1: to do a survey of some of our institutional clients

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Speaker 1: and we're seeing that Mike, that that begin to shift.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing that investors actually believe you can get both

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Speaker 1: and on a risk adjusted basis, investors are better awful

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Speaker 1: or at least uh position the same to include E

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Speaker 1: S G factors within their investment mandates, and you know

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Speaker 1: that was something that really stood out to us. Do

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Speaker 1: you know one of the issues I hear about E

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Speaker 1: s G investing is, you know, the data is just

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Speaker 1: not great to help me make a decision here, like

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Speaker 1: for traditional financial analysis of my income statement, balance sheet,

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Speaker 1: casual statement, but nothing comparable in terms of breath and

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Speaker 1: depth on the E s G side. How do you

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Speaker 1: guys think about that? It's a great point and something

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Speaker 1: we ask ourselves every day. You know, we've been investing

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Speaker 1: a lot in our E s G data architecture and

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Speaker 1: making sure that we get that in and the truth

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Speaker 1: is the data is still very much evolving. One of

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Speaker 1: the things we're looking for UM is really looking for

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Speaker 1: more guidance from regulators in terms of providing clarity on

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Speaker 1: terms and death A missions and objectives to bring some

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Speaker 1: better clarity to some of these data points. UM. So

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Speaker 1: we've been really thoughtful on what we've seen to be

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Speaker 1: material to date, UM, but make sure that we're continuing

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Speaker 1: to build that out and think about it UM and

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Speaker 1: not be too prescriptive as we look forward. Right, And

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Speaker 1: I'll note on the f A function on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: terminal financial analysis. There is a data tab for E

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Speaker 1: s G data, so Bloomberg certainly contributing to the data

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Speaker 1: and analysis there. Janelle Wouldward, President McKay Shields located in

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Speaker 1: New York City. We'll have more coming up. This is Bloomberg. Now,

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Speaker 1: I want to get to Tim Gortney joining us now

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Speaker 1: out of Oklahoma. He is a chief investment officer at

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Speaker 1: Essential Wealth Advisors. They have four billion dollars in assets

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Speaker 1: under management. And uh, let me first get your take

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Speaker 1: on what we see today. There's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: action in stocks, Tim, but there is a big uptake

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Speaker 1: in rates, especially at the shorter end of the curve,

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Speaker 1: and I think increasing concern about lingering inflation and rising rates. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's probably overdue, you know. I think so many

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Speaker 1: other metrics have been showing these price pressures and and

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Speaker 1: certainly uh, company managers have been talking about it now

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Speaker 1: for several quarters. Um, and uh, you know, they've confirmed

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon. We've

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Speaker 1: seen it in the in the prices of so many

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Speaker 1: goods and services across the whole economic spectrum that I

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Speaker 1: think now you know, rates are finally just acknowledging and

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Speaker 1: reflecting the reality that that we've all kind of seen

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Speaker 1: and known for for several quarters. And it's healthy. It

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Speaker 1: needs to go up. I think for not only investors

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Speaker 1: who are in those fixed income investments who need to

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Speaker 1: hold them so they can actually have a slightly better

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Speaker 1: return and hold onto more of their per just in power,

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Speaker 1: but um, it's also I think just healthy to have

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Speaker 1: some rates move higher so that so many other assets

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Speaker 1: like home prices and certainly the prices of stocks, can

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Speaker 1: start to be valued more more fairly and not based

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Speaker 1: on you know, in essence zero interest rates. You know, Tim,

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Speaker 1: when I when I think of Oklahoma City, I think

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Speaker 1: of you know, oil, natural gas and w T I

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Speaker 1: crude oil here over two of barrel. You're in energy country,

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Speaker 1: oil country. What's the feeling in Oklahoma City when they

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Speaker 1: think about where we are in the energy cycle. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think, um, I think so many people

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Speaker 1: are feeling a little bit better about things. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had a really rough stretch and in many ways,

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Speaker 1: you know, the energy industry was was victims of their

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Speaker 1: own success. They were so successful at getting energy out

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Speaker 1: of the ground that the supplies, you know, drove the

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Speaker 1: prices down, and it was great time for con sumers.

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Speaker 1: As prices you know, between basically two thousand and fifteen

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Speaker 1: and two thousand twenties stayed really low um, and you know,

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Speaker 1: as such, producers were not as uh you know, not

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Speaker 1: as incentivized to go invest in new products and open

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Speaker 1: up new, um, new sources of a production. And so

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Speaker 1: seeing the price move up, I think is is kind

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Speaker 1: of like a bitter suite ending to what's been a

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Speaker 1: really rough time period. People are are are feeling much

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Speaker 1: better about things, and because there have been such you know,

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Speaker 1: so little investment in these areas and because companies are

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Speaker 1: so hesitant to go open up new sources, I think

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Speaker 1: you know, it's likely to stay maybe higher, for for longer.

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Speaker 1: As we've been talking about inflation just in general, do

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Speaker 1: you get the sense that people are still conservative? I know,

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Speaker 1: saving rates, savings rates nationwide have gone up, um. You know,

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Speaker 1: even as government spending has soared, is is concerned about

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Speaker 1: future tax increases and you know, just the volatility situation

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Speaker 1: holding people back from investing in the future. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure exactly why there is so

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Speaker 1: much cash and why um, so many people have made

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Speaker 1: the decision to hold cash and and hold things like

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Speaker 1: like short term bonds or bank deposits. Clearly, the banks

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Speaker 1: um are over you know, over capitalized. They don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: need those extra deposits, and that's why they're not earning

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Speaker 1: anything on those, um you know. I think we're probably

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Speaker 1: going into a period of time in the markets where

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Speaker 1: the last twelve to eighteen months have been very easy.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had any corrections. Everybody has enjoyed the ride higher.

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Speaker 1: It's been a fairly smooth ride. But now because of

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Speaker 1: those things that you just mentioned, um, you know, the

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Speaker 1: government has spent, the government has gone into debt. It's

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Speaker 1: likely that we'll have higher taxes moving forward, everything else

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Speaker 1: being equal, that's going to be a drag on growth.

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Speaker 1: I think people and companies have held a lot of

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Speaker 1: cash reserves because they don't know exactly what's coming and

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Speaker 1: it could be that, you know, growth is going to

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Speaker 1: be slowing and then they want to have some some

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Speaker 1: more conservative holdings. So I think markets are going to

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Speaker 1: find in the economy is gonna find we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to earn our growth going forward more than we have

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Speaker 1: in the last year and a half, where it's been,

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Speaker 1: you know, relatively smooth sailing. Tim, you mentioned higher tax rates.

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Speaker 1: What are you telling your clients as they think about

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Speaker 1: positioning their portfolios for an environment that will likely have

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Speaker 1: higher personal and corporate tax rates. Yeah, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: we still obviously don't know the specifics. We know in

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Speaker 1: general that the the trend is going to be higher,

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Speaker 1: as you say, both on the corporate side. On the

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Speaker 1: corporate side, that's going to lead all the other things

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Speaker 1: being equal to slightly lower earnings than than they would

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Speaker 1: have been otherwise. And then on the personal side, changes

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Speaker 1: and things like capital gains rates, UM are going to

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Speaker 1: probably move markets in in some way as people reposition

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Speaker 1: their portfolios for the for the new tax rates that

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be living under. UM. You know, we're going

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Speaker 1: to probably wait and see on on on portfolio management

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Speaker 1: in terms of the way that these things come out.

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Speaker 1: There has been some talk about the removal of the

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Speaker 1: step up in basis rule, although I think that's that's

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Speaker 1: probably dead. More more concerning to us are the planning

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Speaker 1: text rules and UM, so we're gonna be watching more

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Speaker 1: heavily on that side to see if people might need

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Speaker 1: to make changes in their estate planning first and then

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Speaker 1: probably look at portfolio management second. All right, Tim, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us and really appreciate you lending

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Speaker 1: some of us learning your time to us. Tim Courtney,

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Speaker 1: Chief Investment Officer, Except Wealth Advisors, located in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

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Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller. Put on fall Sweeney I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney before the podcast. You can always catch

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Speaker 1: us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio