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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and welcome to Steph. Mom never

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Speaker 1: told you a protection of I heart media and how

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Speaker 1: stuff works. Hello again, listeners, that we are. I'm once

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Speaker 1: again joined by Samantha said again twice and now that's

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Speaker 1: three times, um, and this is our we And in

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Speaker 1: the last episode, you got to sit in on a

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Speaker 1: therapy session, UM, one of mine, right yours, and it

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Speaker 1: was for me very vulnerable and frightening experience. And now

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Speaker 1: it's your now my turn, and y'all kind of I'll

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Speaker 1: laugh because when we decided we were going to do this,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, yeah, we're definitely gonna go in

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Speaker 1: heads wrong and I'm so excited. And then I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we have to do therapy. I don't know, like I

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Speaker 1: I kind of pause as I was realizing, Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that means I have to unearth all the things that

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Speaker 1: I try to stuff down as much as possible because coping. Right. UM,

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Speaker 1: Just so I'm going to do the trigger warnings since

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Speaker 1: I guess you don't know what happened any right. Again,

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Speaker 1: like we said in the last one, we did not

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Speaker 1: sit in with each other on these on these episodes,

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Speaker 1: We're so close. But I've been talking about so let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and do a therapy sessions together as a couple.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happens with a couple. Now, how that goes?

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Speaker 1: So for trigger warning, UM, it is gonna have a

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Speaker 1: lot of childhood trauma and neglect, emotional and physical abuse. UM.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I do too much about sexual abuse,

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Speaker 1: but just to know if you have a bevenoment issues

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Speaker 1: or if you have attachment issues, it may trigger you.

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Speaker 1: So just to throw that out there, UM, before we started,

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Speaker 1: I know any had UM previously when we talked about

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Speaker 1: rather some types of therapy UM, and how to find

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Speaker 1: a good therapists and UM, I'm gonna but this is

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Speaker 1: a bad story. UM. I have a long history with

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Speaker 1: therapy and several therapists and several rounds of healing tactics

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Speaker 1: from religious to clinical. UM. I've experienced several different forms

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Speaker 1: studying social work and being in the treatment fields. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it gets really easy to play the diagnosis game. I,

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Speaker 1: like many of my generation, grew up with the thought

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Speaker 1: that therapy was a sign of weakness and prayer should

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Speaker 1: be enough. Now please, No, I'm not saying anything about

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Speaker 1: religion or prayer, but as someone who was and has

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Speaker 1: been in the field for a while, I know there

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Speaker 1: are things that need to be dealt with on a

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Speaker 1: clinical level, UM, and maybe even on a uh psych

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Speaker 1: psychiatric level. So when I want to say psychiatric, in

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Speaker 1: the State of Georgia's psychiatry is a lot of like

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Speaker 1: medication UM, specifically types of anxiety, depression, A D, h D,

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Speaker 1: all of those types of things. And I'm not one

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Speaker 1: of those proponents who advocate for pills, but I think

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Speaker 1: it can be necessary. Um. And again, like I said,

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Speaker 1: people of faith are amazing people. They can be and

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Speaker 1: and that might be enough. Yeah, but again there are

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Speaker 1: things that cannot be addressed just by hope. Yes, this

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Speaker 1: is those moments of when you need community, when you

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Speaker 1: need outside help, and and that's okay. Um. And again

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Speaker 1: like I tell, like I said before, I did go

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Speaker 1: that religious avenue, and for that moment it was okay,

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Speaker 1: But eventually I had to go a little beyond. Um.

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Speaker 1: And now that we're talking about the little beyond or

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Speaker 1: the clinical level, UM, I want to talk about specific

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Speaker 1: types of therapy. UM. In the previous episode, any I

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Speaker 1: know you, we discussed different types of therapy, and but

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get a little more in depth in

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Speaker 1: the definitions of some of these types of therapy, and

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Speaker 1: just to throw this out there, there's like over fifty

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Speaker 1: problems and it's always developing, and there's always new ideas,

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Speaker 1: there's new all new concepts, and also there's also new

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Speaker 1: UM some diagnosis that have been diagnosed yet. So we

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Speaker 1: know that the D S M five, D S and four,

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Speaker 1: it keeps coming out because it has to reevaluate what

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Speaker 1: is out there. So for a long while, autism and

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Speaker 1: being on the spectrum was called Asperger's UM, and Asperger's

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Speaker 1: was an overall term that was like a general umbrella

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Speaker 1: for people who may not be severe aspergers UM. But

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Speaker 1: they realized this is a spectrum and you may have

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Speaker 1: the lesser to the larger, and it became a new

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Speaker 1: diagnosis in itself, and Aspergers was kind of thrown out

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Speaker 1: the window. And I think that's necessary for many of things.

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Speaker 1: We've changed. The idea of multiple personality disorder has also

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Speaker 1: become something else, which is disassociative identity disorder UM. So

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Speaker 1: I think you know, it changes constantly, and the therapy

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Speaker 1: types and the therapy um theories, therapeutic theories have changed

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Speaker 1: and will continue to change because one of the things

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Speaker 1: that we don't understand quite completely. It's the brain, is

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Speaker 1: the mind, as the chemicals, it's all of that. Um so,

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Speaker 1: but we didn't want to talk about a little bit

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Speaker 1: of what is out there? What is there? And I'm

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Speaker 1: only giving a few of those. Uh, one of them

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Speaker 1: would be CBT. We talked about that previously, the cognitive

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Speaker 1: behavioral therapy, and the concept behind that is that our

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Speaker 1: thoughts about a situation, how we feel, and how we

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Speaker 1: behave are all interrelated. This teaches you to change and

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Speaker 1: examine how you think act in order for you to

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Speaker 1: change how you feel. And again I think that's important

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Speaker 1: because how we feel sometimes takes over what should what

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Speaker 1: we should think, or the logical senses. Right said that

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Speaker 1: for me, And this is often actually used for children

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Speaker 1: as young as for and focuses more on behavior. So

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Speaker 1: I work with children and this is one of the

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Speaker 1: things is if they have erratic behaviors or UM hyperactive behavior,

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Speaker 1: maybe CBT could be an alternate route to medication UM.

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Speaker 1: And some of the diagnosis that may be treated with

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Speaker 1: CBT includes substance abuse, anxiety depression PTSD, and self esteem

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Speaker 1: issues and so many things. Because under CBT, we have

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Speaker 1: things like DBT, which you had also talked about, the

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Speaker 1: dialectical behavior therapy, and this is again a type of CBT,

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Speaker 1: and usually teach us skills such as how to manage,

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Speaker 1: manage attention or mindfulness skills, manage and cope with emotions

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Speaker 1: or emotional regulation skills, deal effectively with others, the interpersonal skills,

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Speaker 1: and tolerate emotion distress so distress tolerant skills. This is

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Speaker 1: a bit more intensive and also actually involves groups. UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's often used for borderline personality disorder. I know

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Speaker 1: that was an episode with stuff mom never told you previously,

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Speaker 1: eating disorders, self harming behaviors, and even angry issues. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then we also want to talk about e M

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Speaker 1: d R. Actually, I think that was highlighted on UM

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Speaker 1: Russian Doll. Oh was it? Yeah, the whole lightning. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if any seen. I hope that was spoiler

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Speaker 1: thing because one of the caretakers to the main character

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Speaker 1: as a therapist and she has this light thing where

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Speaker 1: she uses But this is a non traditional form of

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Speaker 1: psychotherapy designed to diminish negative feelings associated with memories or

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Speaker 1: traumatic events. So the goal of e M d R

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Speaker 1: is to fully process past experiences and sort out the

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Speaker 1: emotions attached through these experiences. And then I also want

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Speaker 1: to talk about the traumatic trauma focused cognitive therapy, which

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Speaker 1: is a form of cognitive behive therapy UM and that

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Speaker 1: addresses the specific emotion and mental health needs of children, adolescents,

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Speaker 1: adult survivors, and families who are struggling to overcome the

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Speaker 1: destructive effects of early trauma. So narrative therapy, which is

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Speaker 1: a form of counseling that views people as separate from

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Speaker 1: their problems. This allows people to get distance from the

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Speaker 1: issues to see how it might actually be helping them

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Speaker 1: or process in them more than if it's hurting them.

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Speaker 1: So essentially you write it out as if you're the

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Speaker 1: third person from what I understand, UM, and again I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think as you told me, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what you may be doing a narrative UM. So part

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Speaker 1: of my therapy is narrative work, which is UM basically

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Speaker 1: describing something a traumatic experience in my case, UM and

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Speaker 1: going through it step by step. And then if you

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Speaker 1: get overwhelmed and you feel like you can't tell this story,

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Speaker 1: then UM, you have to. There's these things called like

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Speaker 1: the stress units and you have time, what is identify why,

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Speaker 1: what is it? Why? I how to manage it and

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Speaker 1: then try to tell the whole story. And I've done

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Speaker 1: it one time with one of my experiences so far,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was difficult, but I can see

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Speaker 1: the value in it for sure. So that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the route out me going future therapies, just because it

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Speaker 1: was so it's so traumatic for me to go back,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, because the memories are so fuzzy that it

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Speaker 1: is best to be a third person story. And again,

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Speaker 1: these are just a small list, obviously, of all the

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Speaker 1: types of therapy that is out there. I found one

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Speaker 1: about feminist therapy. You and I talked about that, which

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Speaker 1: was fascinating in itself. It started in the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's all about empowerment and growing and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, I'm down for that. For that,

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Speaker 1: give you that, um. And like I said, it's according

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Speaker 1: to you, UM. And we told you in the previous

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Speaker 1: episodes about trying to find a good therapist, you need

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Speaker 1: to see what they're qualified in, and they typically have

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Speaker 1: a list of their specialties and that is good to

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Speaker 1: look at, yes, for sure. And another thing from our

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Speaker 1: past episode is our disclaimer, which we can kind of

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Speaker 1: briefly do. If you want a more detail disclaimer, listen

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Speaker 1: to the one before this. But um, legally we went

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Speaker 1: through all the hoops of having these on air, right,

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Speaker 1: essentially signing all the discolosion of forms and forms forms. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: and we this has been months of talking about of

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Speaker 1: doing therapy and then talking about what would be healthy

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Speaker 1: and what wouldn't for us to share, um in this

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Speaker 1: kind of format. So uh, we we've done all those things. Um,

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Speaker 1: we are protecting each other. There's been confidentiality. Um, and

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Speaker 1: we are podcasters. We signed the forms. If you get therapy,

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Speaker 1: I promise you sign a forum and I have a podcast,

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Speaker 1: Like it's confidential again. It was so unusual. Dr Coleman

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Speaker 1: was like, well, let me think about this is who

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Speaker 1: we made this legal perspective of both you and I. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So we're about to get to the session here, but

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Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for a quick break for

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. H m hm, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored. Hey. So, yes, we're about to get

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Speaker 1: into my session. Um, and I'm gonna tell you it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a little more intense than I'm already feeling

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Speaker 1: it than Annie, because somehow my sessions in the last

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Speaker 1: two sessions again we told you were doing previously was

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Speaker 1: not the sentence, but we did discuss that what I

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Speaker 1: needed at this point in time, and my sessions were

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Speaker 1: to break down my past because a lot of my triggering,

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Speaker 1: a lot of my um episodes happened with what she

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Speaker 1: would call body memory, and for me, I would say

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Speaker 1: sensory triggering, because it's not necessarily the things that are

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Speaker 1: completely clearly remember. It is what I experienced. So it

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Speaker 1: may be a smell, It maybe a taste, it may

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Speaker 1: be a conversation, but typically a smell and taste is

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Speaker 1: what I do more or even like familiar. The fear

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Speaker 1: in itself may be familiar to me, so I like

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Speaker 1: the fight or flight. So we're going to be discussing

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Speaker 1: what you're gonna hear are my times in the orphanage

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Speaker 1: and with my biological family. I am adopted. I was

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Speaker 1: adopted when I was seven, and I came into the

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Speaker 1: US from South Korea. Beforehand, I was actually in an orphanage,

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Speaker 1: and beforehand, I was actually in the care of a

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Speaker 1: biological grandmother who is very strict um, and from the

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Speaker 1: memories that I have, was physically abusive UM. And you're

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Speaker 1: going to hear a lot of things of that, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have here moments of me kind of having breakdowns,

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Speaker 1: but revelations I guess about the past memories. So just

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Speaker 1: to throw that out there, and you're gonna hear me cry.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm okay with that because crying

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Speaker 1: is not weakness. So here you go, thank you for

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Speaker 1: doing this and real talk. I'm nervous, okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about that, all right, Here we go.

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Speaker 1: I guess in general, um, Obviously, I've talked about a

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Speaker 1: lot about my trauma UM for a while now, like

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Speaker 1: that's been a part of my job, that's been a

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Speaker 1: part of my passion. But going in depth, which is

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Speaker 1: what you and I were talking about, in general, is

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Speaker 1: really nerve wracking for me because un routing things that

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Speaker 1: I can't quite remember, it's very UM fearful. I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm anticipating because I am a pessimist, maybe a realist,

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Speaker 1: however you want to look at it, that the worst

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Speaker 1: case scenario may happening right right, And you know, you

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Speaker 1: and I talked about the parental situation with the feminist talk,

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Speaker 1: and that went even worse than I thought. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna lie as kind of where I'm at in life, um,

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Speaker 1: expecting the worst case scenario. UM, but so uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm on purpose because again I kind of forgot I

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Speaker 1: had to be a part of this, right um, and

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Speaker 1: you certainly don't have to be fun. I understand and

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Speaker 1: appreciate the um, the reason why you are putting yourself

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Speaker 1: out there and being vulnerable, and I know that that's

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Speaker 1: going to send a really powerful message to people that

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Speaker 1: hear it. UM. Yeah. So so feeling like things like

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Speaker 1: kind of things have happened in terms of um, some

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Speaker 1: events in your life so far as like worst case

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Speaker 1: scenario meaning recent conversations with family? Are you part of it?

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Speaker 1: Is the fear also related to like who's going to

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Speaker 1: hear this? Of course, um, how it will impact them?

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Speaker 1: I think in general, whether it is just talking about

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Speaker 1: the past, including being in Korea and an orphanage, even

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Speaker 1: though that has nothing to do with current situations or

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Speaker 1: my current family member, I still am afraid that they're

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Speaker 1: going to see that as an attack or me being ungrateful,

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Speaker 1: which you and I have talked about already that I

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Speaker 1: have this double guilt of um really wishing I had

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Speaker 1: a whole case, different case scenario in some aspects UM,

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Speaker 1: as well as the fact that I feel ungrateful and

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Speaker 1: I've been privileged obviously because I'm in this position where

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Speaker 1: I am healthy, I am able to be educated, I

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Speaker 1: am able to cope and fin for myself, UM and survive.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's so many things I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's lacking and missing in my life and

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Speaker 1: has been part of the reason that I can't connect

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Speaker 1: with people. Again. You and I have talked about that, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like the only way I'm ever I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say this is the kind of a thought process,

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Speaker 1: is that the only way that I've been able to

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Speaker 1: connect with people is if I feel like I can

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Speaker 1: serve the in somehow shape or manner or support them,

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Speaker 1: and that's my worth. I have to prove my worth essentially. UM. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I talked about the whole rejection factor and

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Speaker 1: the fact that I fear that UM with the rejection

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Speaker 1: that I'm also in the way and an inconvenience I think,

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Speaker 1: and I talked about that as well. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: all connected, you know, the idea of um, some of

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Speaker 1: the survivor guilt that I'm hearing right about you are

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Speaker 1: a child that was adopted and what about the children

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Speaker 1: that you knew that may not have been right? So

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Speaker 1: there's that element. But then also, um, some of the

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Speaker 1: culture within the home that you are adopted into UM

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Speaker 1: also perpetuates. Like you mentioned some of this um feelings

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Speaker 1: of if you have an adverse reaction or if you

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Speaker 1: have an opinion that differs from those of your other

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Speaker 1: family members, that then you're ungrateful, right, um? And what

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Speaker 1: a burden that's been, right, And yeah, I guess um,

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Speaker 1: I know. The last time we talked, we talked about

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Speaker 1: the fact that I do want to dig deeper because

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Speaker 1: that's the aspect that I feel like has been obviously

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Speaker 1: the cornerstone of my reactions and my relationships and my

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Speaker 1: triggering and my whole um traumatic background as well as

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Speaker 1: even my current field and my passions. To be very

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Speaker 1: very candid, but I think I'm not gonna lie. I'm

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Speaker 1: really scared, Like it's not anything of the like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to mince words. I'm scared, right right, of course,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of uncharted territory and it's not comfortable.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be something new that you'll dive into,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I think I think we've discussed about

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Speaker 1: how you're at a place in your life where it's

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Speaker 1: becoming a parent, that it's necessary because ways that you

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Speaker 1: have been able to cope may not be working as

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Speaker 1: well for you because they were in the past exactly.

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Speaker 1: UM So I'll say this real that you know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you also say to the people you work with.

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Speaker 1: You get to control the pace of this, right. You

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Speaker 1: get to decide um what we talk about regarding some

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Speaker 1: the trauma reprocessing and um going back to peeling back

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Speaker 1: the layers of a lot of experiences that you probably

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Speaker 1: have not thought about as much. And so if there's

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Speaker 1: ever a time when we're talking about something, or we

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Speaker 1: get onto a topic and you're feeling really triggered or

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Speaker 1: emotionally reactive and just feeling like you need to pause

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Speaker 1: or you want to change the topics, you get to

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Speaker 1: control that. So you just let me know and I'll

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Speaker 1: continue to check in with you. Um So, in terms

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Speaker 1: of places to start, I know that we've chatted a

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Speaker 1: bit about um some of the memories, the ring pieces

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Speaker 1: of memory and some memories being concrete, and then a

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Speaker 1: lot of the memories really being held also in your

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Speaker 1: body versus r I'm wondering, in light of those conversations,

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Speaker 1: if there's a place that feels safest for us to

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Speaker 1: start UM. I don't know if it's the safest. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's the most clear, uh, in which, of course I

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Speaker 1: would rather know than not. That's kind of my whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I would rather know if something's bad and I feel

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Speaker 1: okay with that, so I can at least be prepared

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Speaker 1: or I've already reacted. Um. So, some of the things

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Speaker 1: that I do remember, UM is the fact that I

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Speaker 1: lived with my biological grandmother, who is the mother of

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Speaker 1: my biological mother, who gave me up um at a

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Speaker 1: very young age, and I was told later that it

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Speaker 1: was due to the fact that she got remarried. And

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Speaker 1: within the South Korean culture, I don't know if his

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Speaker 1: law or whether it's just UM cultural that typically a

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Speaker 1: half child or a step child does not live with

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Speaker 1: a male to prevent a further abuse and or um stigma.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't actually know. And so in which

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Speaker 1: I was given to the care of my grandmother, who

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Speaker 1: was a very strict woman. I was the only child

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Speaker 1: with her who owned I think a restaurant. There was

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Speaker 1: some kind of starving thing. I know that for sure.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you see how that theme, Yeah, popped up already. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but we'll book well, bookmarket that book mark that one. UM.

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Speaker 1: I know that I could not stay with my biological

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Speaker 1: father because of his alcoholism. Now that was something that

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Speaker 1: I remember clearly, UM, because I rarely saw him, but

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Speaker 1: I might saw I might have visited with his mother, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I do have some memories of going with her

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Speaker 1: UM at one point in time. UH, posy for second

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Speaker 1: and ask so that UM to see if there's elements

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Speaker 1: of this conversation that we can kind of even UM

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Speaker 1: dial into in more personal ways. Do you remember any

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Speaker 1: of their names? I do not. Wow, I've never been

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Speaker 1: asked that. UM. I'm very quick to react because, as

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Speaker 1: you said, that there's nothing triggering. I don't even The

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Speaker 1: only reason I know my Korean name, it's because it's

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Speaker 1: not my birth certificate from Korea. What is my Korean name?

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Speaker 1: My Korean name is Lisa Young, so my family name

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Speaker 1: would have been Lee. And the only reason I do

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Speaker 1: know that is because again part of my birth certificate.

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Speaker 1: But um, my adopted parents actually put that in my

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Speaker 1: American name. So my my full name is Samantha Lee McVeigh.

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Speaker 1: So they kept my Yeah, they did do that. They

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Speaker 1: kept my UM, I will say, for what they could do.

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Speaker 1: They tried to keep my marianage. Um, but that was

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Speaker 1: my family name. And outside of that, honestly don't know

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Speaker 1: because I can't even remember anybody calling me by my name. Mhm.

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Speaker 1: How does it feel for you to say your Korean

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Speaker 1: name out out? Um? It feels uh foreign, I guess

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Speaker 1: the best way to say. It doesn't feel real. It

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Speaker 1: I can't identify with that. Yeah. Um. And and maybe

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Speaker 1: part of that has to do with it. Even in

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Speaker 1: being in Korea, when I was in the orphanage, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be someone else, and I pretended to be

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Speaker 1: someone else. Whether it was trying to protect myself from um,

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Speaker 1: the hurt that was happening within my own age group,

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Speaker 1: within the kids that were there or the girls that

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Speaker 1: were in there, or whether it's because I felt dis owned.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that was the best word I have. UM. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can't even think that through. So to me,

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Speaker 1: it is such a distant idea that I can't identify

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Speaker 1: with that into someone where to ever call me, that

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Speaker 1: I would never turn around. It would not be a

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Speaker 1: thing that would turn around. Um. I did remember I

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Speaker 1: would write it out as a kid in Korean, and

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Speaker 1: then I remembered it as an adult trying to write

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Speaker 1: it out, um, when I was taking the Korean classes

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Speaker 1: in college. But yeah, I actually don't identify with that

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Speaker 1: at all. Right, So when you say it, there is

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Speaker 1: not an emotion, an emotional connection or reaction is an

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar territory almost if was that I'm telling a story

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Speaker 1: or almost like I feel like I'm reaching to find

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Speaker 1: my identity, but it's not me mm hmm, like you're

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Speaker 1: describing somebody else. Right, It really does, which is interesting

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Speaker 1: because that was the picture that I was giving when

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Speaker 1: I was hearing you start to talk about it. Obviously

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Speaker 1: setting the scene, which is any part of the absence

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00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: of like that emotional connection, um, which we'll get into,

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Speaker 1: because I think that there's something to be said about

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Speaker 1: that too. And even if it's just the loss of

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Speaker 1: feeling that emotional compression and what that has meant for you,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie just realizing saying that to you,

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Speaker 1: and then you asked me the question about their names.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely putting a lot of UM, unnecessarily darkness, but

397
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Speaker 1: overwhelming um guilt because that's what I live off of,

398
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Speaker 1: because I feel like I should UM, and for some

399
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: reason it feels like I'm failing. I don't know, I

400
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: think because I remember when I was a kid here

401
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: on the US that one day I just started crying

402
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: UM and my mother asked me. My adoptive mother asked

403
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Speaker 1: me why, and I said, because I can't remember her name,

404
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Speaker 1: and I was talking about the gray, the biological grandmother

405
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Speaker 1: who took care of me UM, and I couldn't remember

406
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Speaker 1: her face. I remember saying that, and my mother was

407
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: my adoptive mother was very compassionate about that and just

408
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: talked continue to tell me how they did the best

409
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Speaker 1: they could and they did what was best for me

410
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Speaker 1: and putting me in the um orphanation for adoption. But yeah,

411
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Speaker 1: I remember, I don't even know how old that was.

412
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Speaker 1: I think a tenoral Levin and just feeling distraught that

413
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Speaker 1: I could not remember what she looked like and I

414
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: could not remember her name. You see, that still is

415
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Speaker 1: right emotionally and actual, it is emotional in your face.

416
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Speaker 1: I haven't thought about that memory in a long time. Actually,

417
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Speaker 1: obviously as I'm trying to remember because as we were

418
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Speaker 1: talking about this, because obviously that's all related. Yeah uh.

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Speaker 1: Because even though the memories of my biological family are

420
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: not the greatest um, because all of that has something

421
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: to do with either guilt or or um survival, it

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00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: still feels like I have let someone down weirdly enough, yeah,

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Speaker 1: m hm ah mm hmmm. And to be more specific,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like you've let your rhean family down

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Speaker 1: and that they had expectations for you to remember them? No,

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Speaker 1: I I don't know that's the thing as much as

427
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Speaker 1: that was my life at one point in time, but

428
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Speaker 1: more so for me, I think it was just forgetting

429
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: part of my life. Um. And it's this whole guilt

430
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: of like I need to remember everything. I need to

431
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: remember the good things. I need to know that, I

432
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: need to be grateful that I'm not dead. I need

433
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: to remember that I need to be grateful that I

434
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: did have another opportunity instead of being one more statistic

435
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: um of all the darkness that could happen for many

436
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: of the girls that are cast aside um and in

437
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:36,239
Speaker 1: that area or in that timeframe. Um, but yeah, I

438
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: think it's just and as a kid, and UM, I

439
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: think I needed to know. I needed to feel like

440
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: they missed me, and if that was the case, that

441
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: I need to remember who they were. Yeah, so that

442
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: could be by somebody missing you means that they valued

443
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: you that at that are important to someone cared. Yeah,

444
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: outside of that, So I think whether it's wishful thinking

445
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: and or whether it's just me feeling needing to feel

446
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: guilty because I'm okay, um whatever, which whichever one that

447
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: is mm hmm. What I'm struck by is your level

448
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: of insight at such a young age, because I understand

449
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: as an adult and and you know where you are

450
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 1: now in your life looking back at that time frame

451
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: of adoptions from Korea, Like, I know that you are

452
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: aware of all of the socio political culture and implications

453
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: around that, but when you were in it as a

454
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: young child, it seems like you had this awareness of

455
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: um needing to be present or you you describe it

456
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: as to be grateful for everything because the things would

457
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: have been worse. And I'm curious about what you remember

458
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: about where you picked up those messages. I don't I

459
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: don't honestly know whether I it was more of like

460
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: the daily survival in the orphanage, because I just remember, um,

461
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: everything that was happening, me leaving me, being adopted, may

462
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: being in a different country, be having a new family, uh.

463
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: And it could have been just ingrained in me because

464
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: it was almost the motto good things are happening because

465
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: you're leaving here, You're getting a new opportunity, you're getting

466
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: a new family. They want you um. And it could

467
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: be very well the case that that was the first

468
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: time I've been told us and wanted um, and that

469
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: I've been always chosen. And I know even with my

470
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: uh now the adoptive family, their story on adopting me

471
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: was a long process. So it was felt like for

472
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: them it was faith in God during the perfect timing.

473
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: And obviously I'm not as religious, but in my mind

474
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: it was like, it is cool if it's not coincidental.

475
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: But it seemed like if there's fate, is fate um,

476
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: and so therefore I should be grateful for that um

477
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: and that because because it comes. That's my origin story essentially,

478
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: instead of just talking about the birth story. It began

479
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: in the nine before I was born with my adopted

480
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: parents having a movement and wanting to adopt and then

481
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: fostering instead and having to wait until I was actually

482
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: in the orphanage for a year or two to be adopted.

483
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: And she my mother had a specific country, UM, and

484
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: that's the specific gender, and she wanted she didn't necessarily

485
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: need a baby, which is rare, as you know, UM.

486
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: And so all of those things seems just aligned perfectly. UM.

487
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: And I think just with that UM, and with the

488
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: religious aspect, it's gratefulness or miracles, those both of those

489
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: things come into play. So I don't know if it's

490
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: though necessarily like it came after or beginning before UM

491
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: that I was told and thought and and and needed

492
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: to believe that yes, I'm supposed to I'm the one

493
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: for all, meaning to believe that about and just thinking

494
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: about how adaptive that was, and and I think, UM,

495
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: and that's probably again why I am a social worker.

496
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: There's no in my thought process and beginning beginning of

497
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: this career, beginning this avenue is there's no way I

498
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: went through all of this for just for me, or

499
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: there's no way that I can and feel and know

500
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: this or are um learn or grow into this empathy

501
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: without a purpose. Um. And again this is also where

502
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: I watch children, and if they're not in the same place,

503
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: or if they're not able to get to that same

504
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: place as I am or be able to react the

505
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: way I am, I feel guilty because I could. Or

506
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: even though being in where I am, being where I'm at,

507
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: it feels a very privileged for me to be at

508
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: this point, and therefore, with that privilege, I should do more. Yeah,

509
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: I want to. I want to pause on that for

510
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: a second, because there's a couple of things I want

511
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: to point out. Um. One that it's it's not either or,

512
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: but it's a both and right, like there's room for

513
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: both truths to exist. That there may have been things

514
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: that you wish it been that had been done differently,

515
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: but also you can still hold the gratitude right that

516
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: is there space in your mind and your heart for

517
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: both of those feelings to be there. Um. And then

518
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: also keeping in mind language like should, because that oftentimes

519
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: can set all of us up for um negative feelings,

520
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: but also believing thoughts that are not helpful to us,

521
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: Like there is you know, words like should, never, could, always,

522
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: we don't live life? Isn't it absolute? Like that. So

523
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: I think that you've done really wonderful things and have

524
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: used your story and your experiences continue to help support

525
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: other people. M hm. You know, making sure to you

526
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: honor that within yourself too, and lightening up on some

527
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: of those more oppressive thoughts that you may say within

528
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: your own self. Tom, I think that's really hard for

529
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: me to do. Yeah, in general, absolutely so. I know

530
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: that you started kind of talking a bit about what

531
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: you do remember, and you were sharing about your maternal

532
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: grandmother and how you understand how you came to live

533
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: with her right um, and that you had some visits

534
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: with your paternal grandmother. Talk to me a bit more

535
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: about what you with your maternal grandmother. I think you

536
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: and I had already kind of discussed some of the

537
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: things that I do remember, which were not the greatest memories, um,

538
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: of a woman who was very, very strict. Ah, I

539
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: honestly don't remember much. I told you about watching Michael

540
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: Jackson and Madonna and me no that as the US

541
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: at that point in time. UM. That just dated me,

542
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: didn't it. Um. But then I think I told you

543
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: about the fact that I never actually had toys, um,

544
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: and that one of the reasons I think I went

545
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 1: to see the paternal side. They did try to send me,

546
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: from what I remember, gifts and toys, and it was

547
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: never given to me. I was shown it, but was

548
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: told that I had to earn it, and I can't

549
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: remember ever earning one UM and these are aware. I

550
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: have the dreams that kind of intertwine because the memories

551
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 1: I do have, So I have this weird memory of

552
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: watching them making kimchi and a giant tub um. I

553
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: remember that, and then also having a memory of men

554
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: coming in UM and nothing bad. My grandmother's the biological

555
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: maternal grandmothers who were customers who are regulars and knew

556
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: her UM and then then being kind to me. I

557
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: do remember that, ah, but me being told I need

558
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: to be in the back room, which is so if

559
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: what I remember is a store or a restaurant with

560
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: a back room where we lived, or a back area

561
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: where we lived, UM, I had to remember a really

562
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: weird and I now realized I believe it had to

563
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: be a dream, because there's no way it could have

564
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: been true. That cut off a finger essentially except for

565
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: a little piece of like a skin on and I

566
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: could just see the blood and pulp and all of

567
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: that when I was trying to eat an apple, um,

568
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: and my grandmother coming back there because I'm screaming and

569
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: telling me to be quiet because I was disturbing the customers.

570
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: And one of the customers came back and helped me

571
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: wrap it up and telling me I need to be

572
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: quiet and every thing will be okay. But that's all

573
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: the memory that I have of that, and I swore

574
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: up and down. I think when I was younger that

575
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: there was a scar on my hand, on my finger

576
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: where it happened. But looking back, like that's that can't

577
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: be right because you don't have a scar on Um.

578
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: I don't think I do have a scar on my hand.

579
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 1: Neither would I have had a finger since I wasn't

580
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: taking the hospital to be reattached. So the census came

581
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 1: way later. But it was so distinctive, it was so real,

582
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: and I had it. Um, I was a kid when

583
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: I was swearing up and now this happened to me

584
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: so but I still remember it very clearly, Like as

585
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you about it, I remember the feeling

586
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: of being yelled at because I was once again getting

587
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: in the way or being too loud, and Um, I

588
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: was in dire need and I didn't get it, and

589
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: I hadn't learned to be quiet. Right, So maybe that's

590
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: them the message of that dream or that experience, right, Like,

591
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the literal finger being cut off, although

592
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: you could have witnessed somebody else's finger and could have

593
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: been traumatic to you know, as children, children they see

594
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: something bad happened to somebody else, and their first thought is,

595
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: as themselves, what if that happens to me? That could

596
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: possibly happen to me kind of a thing. So there's

597
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: a lot of possible explanations, but overall, this idea of

598
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: you being in dire need and that need not being met,

599
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: or not being met by the caregiver, but by a

600
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: stranger who came and then wrapped up your finger. Yeah, definitely, honestly,

601
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: I think that, Like I said, the kimchi memories, what

602
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: I have a memory of me eating with chopsticks and

603
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: a fork. That's what I have. And then I have

604
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: another memory of which I'm pretty sure partially I can't

605
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 1: tell that I had been locked out of a home

606
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: by the home because I came in too late, so

607
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: I had to stay outside the remainder of the night,

608
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: and that would put me up before five. Um. But

609
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: then I have another memory in which I did that,

610
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: and then I get attacked by a dog and I

611
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: started screaming in the same scenario of my grandmother coming

612
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: out telling me to be quiet because I was waking

613
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: people up and that it's not that bad. So but

614
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: I feel, I don't know, the two separate, feels like

615
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: it blended, like there was an incident that did happen

616
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: that I blended with a nightmare that could have made

617
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: it worse. But again that's kind of the memory that

618
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: I have. And then I have another one which I

619
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: went to the paternal grandmother's and they are going to

620
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: make something with an egg, which I dropped it, and

621
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: the severe disappointment and the um, the amount of disapproval

622
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: that I got from dropping the egg as a four

623
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: or five year old was so harsh that I remember

624
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: feeling like I had done the worst thing ever and

625
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: that I did not I think, ended up being without

626
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: food that day or that night. Um, because of the incident. Yeah,

627
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: so I do remember that. And then and then the

628
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: other memories that I do have are have a memory

629
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: of coin with my dad to his work. I'm not

630
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: sure if this is real, but it seemed kind of

631
00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: real because one I think he was a musician. Two

632
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: I think it was at a bar or strip club

633
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: because I remember being doated on by several young women

634
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: UM at that place, and I don't know where that

635
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: fits in UM. There was nothing really bad about it

636
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: because someone was paid people. People are paying attention to me,

637
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: and that was the last thing I remember of that.

638
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: And I do remember being told by both the paternal

639
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: and the maternal grandmother that my dad was an alcoholic

640
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: and that's why he was rarely there. But he was

641
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: never cruel. He was the reason I was getting these

642
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: presents that I wasn't able to able to have because

643
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: he was trying to give it to me, get it

644
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: to me. Those are the memories I have of that.

645
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: When you were a child at that time, did you

646
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: know what an alcoholic because you know what they meant

647
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: or what that? No, did you have any any idea?

648
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: I think the remember the reason I remember part of

649
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: that was they have this distinct memory of a smell

650
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize that until I was older. It's

651
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: this weird like the alcohol smell of beer where it sits,

652
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what that was as a kid,

653
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: I like my adoptive parents do not drink. It's never

654
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: been present around me as what I was growing up,

655
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: so I never knew what that was. But when someone

656
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: would drink and that was around, it was so familiar

657
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: that I couldn't figure out why. Um. And even now

658
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: if I smell it now, there are moments and it's

659
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: specifically beer um that I remember that really distinct alcohol smell,

660
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: like someone who drank beer or amount a large amount

661
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: of beer that's on their mouth. I remember that smell. Um. Yeah.

662
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: The other day actually, I was sleeping and uh, there

663
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: was a half open bottle of beer or not bottled,

664
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: but a canna beer. But that like throughout the night

665
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: I smelled it. I was like, what is that? And

666
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: it was so familiar and that kind of linked back

667
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: to oh yeah, this was me growing up as a kid.

668
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: I remember the smell and couldn't figure out what it was.

669
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: But I remember feeling sad. I guess that's the best

670
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: word because it was It wasn't necessarily sad because it

671
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: didn't have sad memories for me, because there was nothing

672
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: volatile about those moments when I smelled that. But I

673
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: just know I wasn't it was familiar and I wasn't

674
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: supposed to be around that or something along those lines. Yeah,

675
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: so I had a really deep and grain assoc That

676
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: smell is very familiar, UM, and I now recognize it

677
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: a little more of course as an adult, UM that

678
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: smell than when I was a kid trying to figure

679
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: out what that was. Mhm. It's also a really great

680
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: example of how our bodies hold memories. Yeah, even before

681
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: or even without like a verbal memory of writing. Right,

682
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: because as a small child, not knowing what how the

683
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: adults explained alcoholism to you, or if they did it

684
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: at all, I don't know what that meant, but that

685
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: that smell continues to bring you back at that moment

686
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: all these years later. It's significant, but also really gets

687
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: at how important it is at of healing because the

688
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: trauma can continue to recreate itself and can be retriggered

689
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: throughout different stages of life. There was a connection I

690
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,479
Speaker 1: wanted to make when you were talking about the egg

691
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: incident and the significant disappointment that you sensed from the

692
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: adults in that experience. UM. Again, just like these early

693
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: childhood experiences and how they impact you as an adult

694
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: and help helped shape who you are. The idea of

695
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: not one to disappoint. That's been a recurring thing that

696
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: I've heard your talk out throughout the session. It seems

697
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: like it may have started back then. Yeah, I mean definitely,

698
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: I know you and I talked about the incident when

699
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: my adopted sister gave me a look and that sent

700
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: me into a turmoil, um where I just cried for

701
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: an entire entire hour or so. Um. Yeah, and then

702
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: even like I remember, I have very strong, opinionated friends,

703
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: which I love. Um, I'm trying to be like them.

704
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: But essentially, if I feel like I'm in the way,

705
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 1: or I might be rejected, or I might do something wrong,

706
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: I try to avoid it altogether. Um. And that includes

707
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 1: part of my introvertedness is because of that. If I'm

708
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: not explicitly invited and or going with someone who was

709
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: invited as like a a date type of thing, I

710
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: don't want to go. Um. If it's a friend group

711
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: and they purposely left me out, it feels like a rejection.

712
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: It feels like I'm in the way. UM. And I

713
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: have a hard time with that. I I am more

714
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: likely to read into things as being me being in

715
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: the way or me not being wanted as that being

716
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: more likely than anything else. So if I feel like

717
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: there's an in between or I felt like if it

718
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: was an in between things, or like yeah, whatever, I'm

719
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: not going to show up, I'm not going to be there,

720
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: or I feel like I'm being purposely excluded and it's

721
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: fairly my fault. So I think that's That's been a

722
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: recurring theme obviously. UM. When I was doing the religious

723
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: UH types of counseling, we talked about the fear of

724
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: rejection UM, which Jesus is great for that he doesn't

725
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: reject people, so that was nice. That was nice obviously

726
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: for me. Ah, I've started to let go of that

727
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: a little more UM. And I think that's just being

728
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: empowered enough to feel like, okay, even if I'm am

729
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm okay. I've survived UM. But disappointing people or failing

730
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: has become the second language to rejection. So now I've

731
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: pat gone past the rejection, I've gone past being in

732
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: the way of trying. And now if I've tried and

733
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: I don't do well or I'm not perceived as well,

734
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: or if I'm not perceived as a big success, like

735
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: there's not Um, even with this podcast that you and

736
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: I talked about. You know, I told you I feel

737
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: like I'm a giant impostor because I don't know. I'm

738
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 1: so insecure and I'm trying to talk to other people

739
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,720
Speaker 1: about not being insecure. UM. Even now, I'm like, if

740
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: this doesn't do well, it's my fault and I failed,

741
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: which is the same level of UM my career as

742
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: a social work I. You know I talked about that.

743
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't feel like I've made a difference.

744
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: And though I can't see all the things that I know,

745
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: all the PEP talk to it, you're making a difference,

746
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You don't see everything that's changed. It

747
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: still feels like a failure at some point in time. UM,

748
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's my fault and or I

749
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: haven't done enough, which is going back to the health

750
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: guilt thing, right. Yeah, I mean that's certainly important, and

751
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that you're aware of how that's

752
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: a core belief and how and what that's connected to

753
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: I really were the roots of that began. UM. I

754
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: think that that's something that you and I will likely

755
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: need to process some more because it it doesn't seem

756
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: helpful to you. It's not. Yeah, yeah, I didn't want

757
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: to put my own assumptions on that, but I think

758
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: it's safe to say fault. Yeah, everything is your faublem

759
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: is not generally helpfully healthy for anyone. Oddly enough, I

760
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: don't know why, right, because we can't control most things,

761
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: particularly when it involves other people, which is honestly one

762
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: of the first things I tell because that I work

763
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: with you can't control anyone else but your own reactions.

764
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: But yet it's really hard to let go. Oh of course,

765
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: because it had that belief has been reinforced by so

766
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: many people throughout your life, right and experiences, not just people,

767
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: all experiences. Yeah, yeah, we have some more for you listeners,

768
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: but first we're going to pause for one more quick

769
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsors. M m hmmmm. And

770
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: just going back, I honestly, the things that I think

771
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm telling you are pretty much what I remember, and

772
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because I have done so

773
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: well and trying to push it down. Um. And now

774
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: I get triggered by, as you the body memories or

775
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: the senses that I have that I can't control as easily. UM. Uh,

776
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: and you and I talked about the conferences that I

777
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: go to about the exploited children and having the moments

778
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: of panic because it's too familiar. Um. Some of the

779
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: incidents are so familiar that I can't process it and

780
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: deal with it. Point because I I'm so confused about

781
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: why I would feel that way, because I can't clearly

782
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: remember why. Well, what do you remember about the transition

783
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: from your maternal grandmother's care to the orphanage? Uh? I

784
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: kind of distinctly remember um being picked up from my

785
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: grandmother's and transported to the actual orphanage, in which my

786
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: grandmother telling me I'm going on a trip. I was

787
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: never told that I was actually leaving. UM. What I

788
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: was told was that would be going on a plane

789
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,479
Speaker 1: for a trip. I remember that because I got really

790
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: excited about a airplane ride, because that was such a foreign,

791
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 1: UM idea, and it was such a like fantasy almost

792
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: to be on a plane. UM. And so I remember

793
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: being told that. I also remember going with this really

794
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: kind woman who was like, I'm going to take you

795
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: and get you hamburger, which I've never had before. UM.

796
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: By the way, that's how you say it with more

797
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: accents in it in Korean, just to give you know,

798
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: because I remember that, remember that, I don't know how

799
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: I remember that, um. And then also getting a banana

800
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: for the first time. Oddly enough, those are the two.

801
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: Much like my life, food motivates me, and that's what

802
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, I'm going to get a hamburger

803
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get banana. Um. So I remember getting

804
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: those things and and showing up for the orphanage and

805
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: then that's it. So maybe it was the highlight of that.

806
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: I do and I think this is a part of

807
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: the guilt where I was upset that I couldn't remember

808
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: my grandmother. I do remember her crying. I do remember that,

809
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: and there that told me as a child that she cared,

810
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: and I felt guilty for not remembering her now that

811
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: i'm thinking back on that that she was crying um

812
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: m hmm, because she knew what you leave in signified,

813
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: although it was never communicated to you exactly. And I

814
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't know when I figured out I

815
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: wasn't going home or going back. I don't think I

816
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: was ever told. I think I just ended up being

817
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: there so long that I figured it out. Invest when

818
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: everything kicked in to start lying, Yeah, to survive with

819
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: the girls who were who had been there a lot

820
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: longer than I had, and they were also trying to survive,

821
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of that means losing or being tough,

822
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: and being tough means dominating, and being dominating mean meant uh,

823
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: making sure whoever CapMan knew who was the boss. Essentially.

824
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: I think part of the trauma that I had growing

825
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: up was being bullied in an atmosphere um that was

826
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: all about surviving essentially. So yeah, I honestly can't tell

827
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: you what I realized that I was never going back,

828
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: but that I see the tears, you know, yep of

829
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: because I'm sure you're aware of what when you realize that,

830
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: what that meant, what that must have been like for

831
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: you as a child, right, Uh, Because I actually never

832
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: thought of that either, mm hmm. But I could tell you.

833
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 1: I do remember being told when I was leaving, so

834
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: I have several you and I talked about several incidents

835
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: in between the fact, um, but I do remember being

836
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: told I was being adopted, and part of that had

837
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: to do with I think the only friend I made

838
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: that point had left before me to go to France.

839
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: If I remember correctly. UM. And so soon after I

840
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: was being told that I would be leaving too, because

841
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: my one and only friend had left. UM and I actually,

842
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: unfortunately I had pictures of her. Actually, we had pictures

843
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: taken together because there was a group of missionaries that

844
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 1: came in. I think there were American missionaries, if I

845
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:43,479
Speaker 1: remember correctly. Of course that was very documented, uh, which

846
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: is kind of ironic and funny to be because I

847
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: became one of those missionaries in college that went and

848
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 1: visited others and other like cat of like homes as such. Ah.

849
00:55:55,320 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: But I remember being told, I remember taken to Hey. Yeah,

850
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: I remember being taken into a small room, and I

851
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: told you about the two women who are very much

852
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: advocate for me, telling me that I was leaving, and

853
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: them handing me up booklet of the family that I

854
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: was going to live with where I'll go I was

855
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: going home with. And I remember sitting there looking going

856
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: through those pictures, ah, and being excited, also being confused

857
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: because they were really white. UM, and so I hadn't

858
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: been around white people until that point, UM actually at all. Okay, guys,

859
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: so thank you obviously you heard it kind of abruptly

860
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: end because we did have some issues with the internet. However,

861
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: I felt it was still a good ending because it's

862
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: a process. So obviously it was one therapy session and

863
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: we are only starting. I am only starting, And I

864
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: will tell you, out of the five years of therapy

865
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: that I've gone through a LASSA five I'm estimating times

866
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: I've been in therapy. Um, this is the first time

867
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: I've been able to concentrate on my past. Previously, I

868
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: had so much trauma on a daily basis, whether it's

869
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: death of kids, whether it's triggered because of UM, some

870
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: type of training, all of those things. Because social work

871
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: is a difficult field. To my social workers out there,

872
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm here for you, I got you. But it has

873
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: finally come to the point that I can actually face

874
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 1: those and address these moments. And it's been thirty something

875
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: years that I had to even think about it, and

876
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: I actually any you texted me, asked me how it went.

877
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it was rough, true story, And

878
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,919
Speaker 1: that's the thing is it was rough, And UM, I'm

879
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: going to tell you these are the moments that it's

880
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: gonna be hard for me. I'm not gonna come out

881
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm healed. I'm not gonna come out like

882
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: everything's okay. I'm gonna come out really raw and really vulnerable.

883
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: I went home to my friend was like, I need

884
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: a hug. I need, which is you don't know me,

885
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: but I'm not a touchy feely person. That is not

886
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: my persona. UM. And being independent, being strong, being sarcastic,

887
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: um cynical, that's my thing. So having these moments of

888
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: like I cried on air or on the mic, holy crap,

889
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: or I had to go home and sale someone I

890
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: need you to be with me right now because this

891
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 1: was really overwhelming. Um, and it's okay. For me. It

892
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: was a big breakthrough to be able to talk about

893
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: some of the things that I didn't think on, and

894
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: some of the things I didn't think on but actually

895
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: affect my relationships today, affect um, how I process things

896
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: or even affect my relationship with my family, affect the

897
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: way I perceive people, and some of the reasons I

898
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: may have a successful relationship or an unsuccessful relationship. So um, yeah,

899
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: even though it is as intense as it sounded, and

900
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be very um what's the word, it's unfulfilling,

901
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: because you're not going to hear the end of this,

902
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: but we will come back and tell you how it goes.

903
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: It's okay. And I went through a moment. I had

904
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: a moment to digest and I had to be able

905
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: to say this is where I need to be, and

906
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: vulnerability is okay. Also, you all may have heard me

907
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:25,479
Speaker 1: stumble through I'm trying to get out of my chair.

908
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. The damn headphone. I just want you

909
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: to know trapped me. And I was by myself and

910
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna live here now, and so

911
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: I was fighting very hard. Look, it felt like it

912
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: took two hours. I know it's probably like five minutes,

913
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: but I was like, what the hell is this again?

914
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: That may be also in exaceration, but these headphones were

915
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: trying to kill me. I want you that's that. This

916
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: is exactly what happened. No one saw this. I'm just

917
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: saying this is what happened. So we do have these

918
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: studios are haunted. So I'm going to say it is

919
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: um but you know what, all of that was necessary?

920
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I'm glad. I hope for you that

921
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: you weren't bored by it or you weren't overwhelmed by it. Um.

922
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: I hope that it lets you know that it's okay

923
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: to be there. And I do want you to know this,

924
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: and I'm okay with sharing this with you because I

925
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: think it's important that we get haaling, and sometimes healing

926
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: doesn't happen until much, much, much later. Yes, And UM,

927
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: I hope that for listeners, UM who were like, oh, no,

928
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: listening to somebody's therapy session sounds like the most boring

929
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: hour of my life, I understand, but I hope that

930
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: you did find them valuable or in some way informative,

931
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: because I do think and I I used to be

932
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: this person who thought like therapy was a waste of time.

933
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: But we we really appreciate you, UM as we've been

934
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: going through this, this arc of trauma. UM, this is

935
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: a big part of it, and it has been for

936
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: us personal right, very personal. So I think again, just

937
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: to reiterate back to why we wanted to do this,

938
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: and I know we've gotten really good feedback, and thank

939
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: you for those who have and thank you for those

940
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: who have stuck with us in this journey because it

941
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: is unusual and the biggest thing we wanted to relay

942
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: is that it happens, and it's more personal than you know.

943
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: And for those who don't understand again why we come

944
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: forward or why we don't come forward, or why it's

945
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: so traumatic, or why it affects us on a daily basis,

946
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: even if it was thirty years ago, that it's important

947
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: that we discuss it and it's important that we acknowledge it. Yeah, yep, Um,

948
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: we really appreciate all of you, all of your listeners. Yes, um.

949
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: If you would like to emails if you have any questions, um,

950
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff Works.

951
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,919
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Twitter at mom Stuff

952
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,919
Speaker 1: podcast and on Instagram at stuff But I've Never Told

953
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: You talk to me. Yes. Samantha has been helping you,

954
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: so that's awesome. Come talk to me. Yes, and thank

955
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: you Samantha for joining us. Thanks to Dr Coleman for

956
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: being to this very unusual request, this unusual thing. Yes.

957
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: Thanks to our superproducer Andrew I'm sorry helping us all

958
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: the way through. And thanks to you for listening. Stuff

959
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You's a production of I Heart Radios

960
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcast from I Heart Radio,

961
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

962
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.