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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from

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Speaker 1: this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist. Well, Miles,

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Speaker 1: we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat

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Speaker 1: by the author of the new book The Power of

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Speaker 1: Conscious Connection, a Harvard fellow who holds a Masters in

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Speaker 1: Education and Counseling Psychology. Welcome to the show, Talia fully,

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Speaker 1: Well it's going on.

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Speaker 2: How are you well? I'm good.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about Raphael from the Teenage Mutan Ninja Turtles

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Speaker 3: because every time I hear about that, I have this

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Speaker 3: desire for pizza. Yeah, and I'm not eating it anymore,

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Speaker 3: so thanks, thanks for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And every time I hear about gravy, I have

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Speaker 1: the I want to get some pizza.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I should try that. This is the thing. When

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Speaker 2: you have this much gravy, you can experiment. I'll put

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Speaker 2: it on vanilla ice cream. I have not tried that

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Speaker 2: and pretend it's like caramel sauce. I might try that.

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Speaker 2: I have enough time to do that.

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Speaker 1: Last week you were talking about matted potato pancakes and

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Speaker 1: using the gravy as syrup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, And I mean, yeah, however you want to

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Speaker 2: look at it.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm going to chime in here as a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a guru already, is if you have

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Speaker 3: too much gravy, this is a time in life we

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Speaker 3: need to let it go. I don't know, Miles what

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Speaker 3: it's going to take for you to change that behavior,

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Speaker 3: but sometimes in life, if it's overflowing, you need to

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Speaker 3: just let go and surrender.

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Speaker 2: Well, Talia, you want to our need for gravy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So release the need for gravy, release me

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Speaker 3: for all of these extra things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah what I mean. I'd hate to show you my

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Speaker 2: garage because you'll be like, wow, you have a lot

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Speaker 2: of paint left over from a different house projects. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 2: that's gravy from years past. I will not let them go.

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Speaker 1: Why is the part of your face below your nose

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Speaker 1: so shiny? No reason, turkey grease. Probably the rendered fat

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Speaker 1: from the gravy.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And you're sure sleeve becomes translucent as you whip it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I will. You know what it is? I

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Speaker 2: think it's just like a waste thing, you know. But

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Speaker 2: the thing is, I'm it's it's gonna be gone within

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Speaker 2: the next thirty six hours. I know this, this I

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Speaker 2: do know, so I think will be okay, or maybe

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Speaker 2: I get ill and then I have to stop eating it.

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Speaker 2: We'll see.

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Speaker 1: What is something from your search history.

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Speaker 4: I will just present to you the actual last thing

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Speaker 4: that I googled, which is love It verbatim. Why is

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Speaker 4: it called constant comment?

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Speaker 1: Tea?

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Speaker 4: Do you know the tea? Constant comment?

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Speaker 1: Constant?

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Speaker 4: It's this like it's a tea blend. It's kind of

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Speaker 4: a black tea with a little orange rind in it. Uh.

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Speaker 4: They serve it at this coffee shop that I that

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Speaker 4: I often work at, that was working at this morning,

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Speaker 4: and I I really love it. It's wonderful. It's been

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Speaker 4: like year a couple of years and me being really

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Speaker 4: into it, and then I finally stopped and just looked

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Speaker 4: at the actual name, and I, you know, it's got

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Speaker 4: me thinking a lot about I've come to really be

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Speaker 4: a believer and like a good name is really really

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Speaker 4: powerful and it's a fantastic name. Constant comment because it

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Speaker 4: sounds normal, you know, it rolls off the tongue. It's

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Speaker 4: got some nice like nice hard consonants. And then for

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Speaker 4: and then today, for the first time, I was like, wait,

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Speaker 4: what does it actually mean? And I think that's a

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Speaker 4: really nice thing about a name that it could just

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Speaker 4: kind of immediately just be its own sort of universe

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Speaker 4: of meaning.

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Speaker 2: Whatever it be.

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Speaker 1: Whoever created was an SEO master, so it probably studtled

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Speaker 1: in the school of on Google's campus for many years.

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Speaker 4: Go ahead, who created it, you asked, well, Rudy Campbell Bigelow.

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Speaker 4: In nineteen forty five, she created Constant Comment Tea. She

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Speaker 4: was unhappy with a variety of teas on the market,

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Speaker 4: so she created a blend of black tea and orange

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Speaker 4: rind and spices and inspired by an early colonial era recipe.

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Speaker 4: The new flavor was so popular among her friends that

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Speaker 4: it received quote constant comments, therefore giving the t its name.

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Speaker 2: I like the backstory great ta yeah, and like just

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Speaker 2: sort of like the cleverness of the naming. It reminds

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Speaker 2: me of like how they name weed. It's like, yeah, this one, dude,

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Speaker 2: it's like constant giggles, bro, because when you hear that ship,

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Speaker 2: everybody's being laughing the whole time. Very very nice blend

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Speaker 2: you have here of Indicansativa. Yeah, it's so funny that

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Speaker 2: you mentioned this. I randomly just came across like on

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Speaker 2: like on Twitter or something, an ad from Big Eelots,

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Speaker 2: like from like it's like a message from the founder

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Speaker 2: of big elod.

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Speaker 4: T you're about to turn forty, and they just they ca.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they know, they know.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, they've got a clock on every one

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Speaker 1: of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, They're like, take that Wu tang jersey off and

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Speaker 2: here's a cup of big old T. You old ones.

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Speaker 2: Embrace it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I just yeah, So

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Speaker 2: it's it's funny that now I'm having the big load

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Speaker 2: T message. We reinforced in multiple ways.

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Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, if you have room in some future episode

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Speaker 4: or even just when we're just chatting, not on a podcast.

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Speaker 4: One of the greatest stories I ever know is about

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Speaker 4: the naming of a product. And I will tell it

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Speaker 4: at some point, or I can do it as a

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Speaker 4: bonus at some point, but yeah, take bonus.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right.

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Speaker 1: The idea that tea's where the original weed strain is

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Speaker 1: interesting because then they used to call weed tea, Like,

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Speaker 1: wasn't that a thing? I think in one of those

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Speaker 1: like early twentieth century novels. I think they keep referring

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Speaker 1: to weed as tea maybe like on the Road or

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Speaker 1: something like that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, interesting, so the connection runs deep? Yeah no it

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Speaker 2: was Yeah, okay, I did have no idea. Well that

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Speaker 2: all makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Damn. Yeah, there you go. What Alex, what something you

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Speaker 1: think is overrated?

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Speaker 2: The guy Napoleon?

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Speaker 1: Way guy, awful guy, that guy.

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Speaker 5: And I saw the movie yesterday. The movie I think

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Speaker 5: really doesn't like him, and I really appreciate that about

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Speaker 5: the movie. They make it like a weird jerk who

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Speaker 5: no one should like all of the time.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so what what is your beef with Napoleon? Because

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Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty good friends with him? Oh what's your fials, bro? Yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: what's your fucking problem?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they right, like moderating the discord, and everyone's very

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Speaker 5: mad at made typing right now. He is famous, but

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Speaker 5: mainly for being a general and he basically just got

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Speaker 5: like everyone in Europe killed for about fifteen years for

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Speaker 5: his own personal gain, Like he didn't really have goals

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Speaker 5: beyond being an emperor, and he kind of ruined the

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Speaker 5: best parts of the French Revolution. He was a horrible

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Speaker 5: guy personally, he reinstituted slavery in France after the revolution

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Speaker 5: abolished it, like he should not have any good reputation

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Speaker 5: at all, and the movie just treats him like he's

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Speaker 5: a weird guy who's bad. So that's very good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Joaquin Special, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I weird recommend it seeing it just to see how

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Speaker 5: weird it is. It's not a good movie, but it's

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Speaker 5: a lot of just him shuffling around being unpleasant and

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Speaker 5: also having a fully American accent. I assume French people

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Speaker 5: are really upset about this movie. It's not a good

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Speaker 5: Napoleon depiction.

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Speaker 1: Mm, like does he like fully American?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Does he have a regional accent? Do they go like

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Speaker 1: bronks with it? Or is it just it just get

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Speaker 1: TV English?

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Speaker 6: Hey, I'm invading, Yeah that's yeah, sure, fucking talking to

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Speaker 6: Napoleon right now?

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Speaker 2: Dog yo, you know you're speaking to him, bro, because

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Speaker 2: I'll folk I'll go get him. He's about to head

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Speaker 2: over to Corsica, Bro, for his exile. I'll do that

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Speaker 2: shit right now. Did he have syphilis?

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Speaker 7: Though he had?

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Speaker 5: I think more than twenty mistresses is the estimation, and

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Speaker 5: probably picked it up.

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Speaker 2: I just always thought that was like a weird like

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Speaker 2: historical myth or I didn't know if it was true,

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Speaker 2: but I always for some reason, people were like, yo, ye,

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Speaker 2: list was the thing we've heard about Napoleon, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that could just be based on bad rumors that have

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Speaker 2: lasted for centuries.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, we just turned him into like an angry

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Speaker 1: short cartoon character, like that's just how history worked. They're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's like picture Danny DeVito trying to get shorty, but

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Speaker 1: like more more angry, and that's who he is. But

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Speaker 1: it feels like he's the first leader that is like

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Speaker 1: similar to the leaders we had, Like just a narcissist

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Speaker 1: like that, that is what was driving the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: He was like, I he has heard about this narcissism shit,

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Speaker 1: this shit goes hard. This is a great way to

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Speaker 1: go through life. And everyone just was unprepared for it, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, yeah, yeah, I read the long biography of him

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Speaker 5: last year and the like. Even people in France were

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Speaker 5: kind of unprepared for him because he was very from Corsica,

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Speaker 5: which a lot of French people thought was like separate

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Speaker 5: and different, and they even thought he had a weird

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Speaker 5: regional accent from Corsica, like people would talk about how

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Speaker 5: he spoke funny from a French perspective, and yeah, I

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Speaker 5: think he just decided he was going to be the

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Speaker 5: military dictator of the Earth. And that's not like a

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Speaker 5: great goal. I think heroes should have better goals.

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Speaker 1: Yea, hear those bad ideas to have like inceptioned in

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Speaker 1: your brain that you can't shake. Yeah, Like God, I

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Speaker 1: just can't get rid of this notion that everybody should

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Speaker 1: be bowing to me in the whole world. Oh, that's

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Speaker 1: not good for anybody.

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Speaker 2: Man, Well let me finish under the thread of death.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm saying, man, it works. Man, Child's Ridley

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Speaker 1: Scott though he's he's just on a on a heater

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Speaker 1: of like making highly watchable not good movies. Let's be

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Speaker 1: like where he's at that House of Gucci thing was

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Speaker 1: like what a great time at the movies and you

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Speaker 1: just like walk away and you're like, man, that wasn't good.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck was that? But like what a blest Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like I'm very intrigued. I'm always yeah, I always

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Speaker 1: come with people are like it's not good, but like

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Speaker 1: you should definitely go see it. And that was like

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Speaker 1: definitely my review of the House of Gucci too, It's like,

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Speaker 1: not a good movie, but check it out. Check better

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Speaker 1: you better go. It's gonna make time disappear and stick

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Speaker 1: with you in weird ways.

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Speaker 2: Didn't he also do a Columbus movie with Gerard dep

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Speaker 2: Pardue that fourteen eighty two film. Was that him or

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Speaker 2: did he write rhythm He? Oh? Yeah, he directed it. Yeah, dude,

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Speaker 2: so he's on a fucking tear of being like yo,

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Speaker 2: and this guy is fucking he was just trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out the new world for everybody. Man complicated ude,

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Speaker 2: really weird guy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this movie made me reappreciate Gladiator, where he could

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Speaker 5: just make up an exciting guy. Yeah, I have to

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Speaker 5: like to pick the guy who's home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Gladiator of syphilis. Though you asked that like

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Speaker 1: a gotcha question when you ask me.

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Speaker 2: I know, I did it.

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Speaker 8: I did it as if everything I said that was

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Speaker 8: preceding it was meaningless because there's mainly just to get

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Speaker 8: to the park. Simple, That's what now that I read it,

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Speaker 8: they were suspecting that's what was what led to his

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Speaker 8: death potentially, like the symptoms that he was displaying there,

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Speaker 8: like plus his you know, his habits of having many partners.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, you may have been that took him down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he was like devolving towards the end, supposedly like

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Speaker 1: making bad military decisions that could also just be power

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Speaker 1: and being fame famous, being fame? What h what's something

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Speaker 1: you think is underwritten? All right?

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Speaker 2: All right? Get ready?

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Speaker 8: This is more breakfast talk and actually probably related. Just

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Speaker 8: like a straight up salad for breakfast. Nothing just no

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Speaker 8: like yeah, no no nod well like or whatever like

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Speaker 8: salad but yeah, no, no nod to. It's like there's

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Speaker 8: an egg in it. There's no like kale with a

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Speaker 8: running egg or just like it's just a normal ass

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Speaker 8: depressing bag salad.

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Speaker 2: If you got it, that's what this is. Yeah.

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Speaker 8: I literally had a even worse. I had a Von's

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Speaker 8: bag salad yesterday, and I was like, this is not ideal.

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Speaker 8: It was mostly because it was like probably gonna it

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Speaker 8: was near the end of its you should eat this

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Speaker 8: like there, But I weirdly did feel more good than

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Speaker 8: I like to admit yesterday because if you ate like

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Speaker 8: a pile of eggs, yeah exactly, the eggs that I

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Speaker 8: got to kill you?

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Speaker 1: And so did you put it on a bagel? No,

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Speaker 1: just a regular salad, bro salad on a stack of

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Speaker 1: flat flat jacks.

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Speaker 7: Jack.

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Speaker 2: No, no, man, just a regular I did.

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Speaker 8: Actually my nod to breakfast was I had like a

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Speaker 8: fucking like cranberry like kale and broccoli stem salad vons and.

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Speaker 2: A cup of black coffee. Like there you go. That

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Speaker 2: was just like grim man.

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Speaker 1: That feels trimm. I'm on a black coffee kick too.

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Speaker 2: Grim as fuck.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I've been doing this thing I got. This is

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Speaker 8: just based off of like twenty five seconds of YouTube advice.

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Speaker 8: So I don't even know if this is good, but

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Speaker 8: I've been doing because it's just myself in here. Pour

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Speaker 8: over coffee, one cup of pour over in the morning.

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Speaker 8: And then the thing that I saw that I've been

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Speaker 8: trying that I think is working a cold bloom on

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Speaker 8: the grounds instead of a whole bloom.

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Speaker 2: So for the bloom, usually you put a little bit

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Speaker 2: of your hot water on the beans. Let that kick

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Speaker 2: it for like thirty seconds a minute, And they're saying

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Speaker 2: just to put cold water first, like like room tap.

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Speaker 8: I've been putting like like kind of like let's see,

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Speaker 8: it's it's all in fucking centigrade.

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Speaker 2: So I'm trying like like about a like a.

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Speaker 8: Wow, you're on that coffee ship to the place that

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Speaker 8: you went to to centigrade. Wow, it's probably sixty sixty

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Speaker 8: seventy degrees, no eighty degrees maybe something like that. Okay,

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Speaker 8: so it's not like cold cold, but it's not it's

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Speaker 8: not yet five fair.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what my kettle is set to to five.

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Speaker 2: I know, y'all.

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Speaker 8: I put in and uh so the cold bloom, but

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Speaker 8: bloom for longer like two minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's been tasting pretty good.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to be this new beans too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: think about it. Are you so sort of thinking about

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Speaker 2: the flavor that? Are you like hand grind? Like are

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Speaker 2: you taking a lot of steps to like that, got

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Speaker 2: a nice ish grinder? Okay, damn, like like one of those.

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Speaker 8: But not I do have a hand grinder, but I

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Speaker 8: guess I could go back to using I threw that

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Speaker 8: into my camping stuff because oh yeah, that's good.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense there.

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Speaker 1: Now I know what a cold and hot bloom are

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Speaker 1: for the listener of all right, so it will be

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Speaker 1: helpful were you're doing pour over right, you have your

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Speaker 1: grounds and you put it in the little fucking funnel thing,

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Speaker 1: and this is like if you're at a fancy coffee

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Speaker 1: shop where they like you see them pour the little

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Speaker 1: kettle like measuring little scale.

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Speaker 8: The bloom is at the beginning where you put in yeah,

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Speaker 8: usually three times the amount of water as weight compared

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Speaker 8: to the beans. So if you have fifteen grams of beans,

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Speaker 8: put forty five grams of water and just let it sit.

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Speaker 8: And what the bloom does. And that's the time when

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Speaker 8: all the carbon dioxide comes up. So the little like

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Speaker 8: looks like a little the little coffee. Yeah, grounds are blooming.

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Speaker 8: And so most people do that at boiling hot and

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Speaker 8: just throw it out there, you know, try it, Try.

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Speaker 2: It cold ish, colder yeah, ok, yes, yes, summer pool temperature,

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Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, that's right. Cool but not cold. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because if you're living out like in Chicago right now,

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Speaker 2: then you open up your tap not that not no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: that's true. You gotta I do.

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Speaker 8: I put the kettle on and I just like kind

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Speaker 8: of in the middle of it, grab it out, do

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Speaker 8: the bloom, and then put it back on the.

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Speaker 1: Warmer you first, that little cough of like.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, anyway, that's what.

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Speaker 2: I'm went up to.

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Speaker 1: Damn.

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Speaker 2: Breakfast advice breakfast salad because it just happened.

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Speaker 8: The only reason I can tell you this is because

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Speaker 8: it just happened.

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Speaker 2: And also, uh, Mason Jars. Also uh my phone loving

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Speaker 2: my phone handle this candle from Costco that's on my desk.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'll be able to get used to

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Speaker 1: like the where you pour the milk over the salad

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Speaker 1: like it's cereal which.

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Speaker 2: Breakfast salad.

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Speaker 8: And also this this bugs money in Space jam toy

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Speaker 8: from the nineties that a us this racist listener sent.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that looks like some ship you'd win at Magic

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Speaker 2: Mountain like back in the day. It feels like I

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Speaker 2: can't remember why.

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Speaker 8: We were pretty convinced it was like official ish, but yeah,

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Speaker 8: it does look pretty official.

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Speaker 1: It also looks like he has like he's about to

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Speaker 1: or like he's just suffered a head shot. There's something

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00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,679
Speaker 1: about his like facial expression like he's like kind of

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Speaker 1: looking up and his mouth is a gape.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, his eyes his eyes are let's just say they

351
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Speaker 8: were they were not they seem like they were. It's

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Speaker 8: a toy from the nineties, so I'm not dude, it

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Speaker 8: looks like people are selling it. Oh No, the eyes

354
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Speaker 8: are just as fucked up. Okay, never mind. I was

355
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Speaker 8: gonna say I thought mine might be the result of

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Speaker 8: a tag though in this eBay al right.

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Speaker 2: About twenty ten bucks.

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Speaker 4: Ish.

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Speaker 8: I thought mine might be the result of you know,

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Speaker 8: the we'll say, undercompensated labor who was.

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Speaker 2: Eye has no need to get on what the eyes

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Speaker 2: look like when they're putting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, might be perspiring well he yeah, yeah, yeah,

364
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 1: and in some kind of shop. Yes, all right, let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right.

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Speaker 7: Back, and we're back.

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Speaker 2: We're back.

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Speaker 1: We're back, baby. And so is the COP conference. We're

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Speaker 1: at COP twenty eight. Yeah, it's the initial headlines. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, there was like points during earlier this year

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Speaker 1: where people are like we've turned a corner, and then

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Speaker 1: the initial headlines. I feel like it's a good metaphor

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Speaker 1: for the climate discussion, where it's like you'll get some

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Speaker 1: good headlines, some positive seeming things happening, and then like

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Speaker 1: once you take a closer look, like people are like

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Speaker 1: it's not good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because like the whole point is to get you know,

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Speaker 2: the all of the the one hundred and twenty five

380
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 2: countries together and be like, all right, y'all, how are

381
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Speaker 2: we gonna unfunck this thing, and we all got before

382
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 2: we leave, Yeah, like for real this time, we got

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Speaker 2: to do some real heavy lifting. In the beginning, like

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Speaker 2: you said, there were things that made it feel positive,

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Speaker 2: like commitments to seriously cut like methane emissions and like

386
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 2: increased funds for countries that are being affected by climate

387
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,479
Speaker 2: change who are otherwise unable to help themselves because of

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00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 2: you know, the economics of it all. But like you're saying,

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Speaker 2: he starts zooming out and the optimism like fucking vanishes

390
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 2: like almost instantly, like for starters. Right, the event is

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Speaker 2: taking place in Dubai, Okay, the UAE is a nation

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Speaker 2: built on fossil fuel profits. And the man leading the

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00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 2: talks in Dubai is this guy, Sultan al Jabet, who

394
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 2: he is the head of the state owned Abu Dhabi

395
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Speaker 2: National Oil Company, and he is the one sort of

396
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,719
Speaker 2: presiding over these like climate talks and and then so

397
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Speaker 2: like and I can add even more to this.

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Speaker 6: Prior to the conference beginning, he said out loud in

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Speaker 6: another conference, said there was quote no science that indicated

400
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Speaker 6: that a phase out of fossil fuels is needed to

401
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 6: stop temperatures from rising above one and a half degrees celsius.

402
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Speaker 1: One more thing, who are you gonna believe? Who are

403
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: you gonna believe? Miles, You're gonna believe the scientists, or

404
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna believe the head of.

405
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 2: State owned oil company. And then only that there was leaked.

406
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 2: There were leaked documents that showed that a lot of

407
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 2: these people representing different state owned oil companies and the

408
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 2: Emirates were planning on using the talks to like generate

409
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 2: more business for fossil fuel extraction, Like they were like, yeah, well,

410
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 2: it would be great because you know a lot of

411
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 2: people are going to be in town for this. So

412
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 2: it's hard to imagine anything significant will be done against

413
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 2: this backdrop, especially when the biggest negotiation at the conference

414
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 2: that everyone is paying attention to is are we going

415
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 2: to actually start articulating a phase out of fossil fuels, or,

416
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 2: as some lobbyist would rather say, how about phase down?

417
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 2: Because at least down doesn't indicate out forever. Can we

418
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: say phase down? Can we say phase out? There's a

419
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 2: lot of back and forth of that. Saudi Arabia has

420
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 2: flatly said that anything resembling a fossil fuel phase out

421
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 2: in an agreement. They will just they will be it

422
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: will be rejected by their delegation and the way the

423
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: talks are structured. It all it takes is one party

424
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: to fucking scuttle the whole thing. So you're dealing with

425
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: a lot of fucking variables here that don't spell their

426
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 2: you know, a good time for Earth in the near future.

427
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,959
Speaker 2: And then you have the record number of lobbyists of

428
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: like from the oil gas industries that are there. Last

429
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 2: year we talked about when it was in Egypt, they

430
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 2: set a record for lobbyists that were in attendance, Like

431
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: how they were more lobbyists than like people who were

432
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 2: from like a single country for example. Like they're the

433
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 2: combined amount of lobbyists that are out actually registered as

434
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: lobbyist because there's a ton of people who might not

435
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 2: be outwardly saying that they're there to lobby for something

436
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: they are. Basically they outnumber every country's delegation except for Brazil's,

437
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 2: and Brazil has more because they are going to be

438
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Speaker 2: hosting it in like a year and a half or something,

439
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 2: so like that's why they have more people. But also

440
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: they fossil fuel lobbyists outnumber in official Indigenous representatives by

441
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 2: seven to one, and that means like they have more

442
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: passes lobbyists than the combined total of delegates from the

443
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: ten most climate vulnerable countries combined, including Somalia, Chad with

444
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: the Solomon Islands in Sudan. And this quote from David

445
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 2: Tong of Oil Change International sums it up pretty well.

446
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 2: He said, quote, you would not invite arms dealers to

447
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 2: a peace conference, and that's kind of what we have now.

448
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: It's just arms fest at the peace.

449
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: Fest depends on how lit you want your peace conference

450
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: to be.

451
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, I mean I was one. I was

452
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 4: sort of wondering and reading about this, whether this is

453
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 4: like the new Davos, you know, and this is the

454
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 4: new just kind of like we're going to go party,

455
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 4: we're going to make ourselves feel important, and we're going

456
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 4: to kind of cut some deals and ostensibly there's this

457
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 4: other project that's not actually going to accomplish anything.

458
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: Right, right, and they're like kind of protecting against something

459
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: being accomplished. We've had climate experts and environmentalists on the

460
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: show described this as an energy industry trade show.

461
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 4: Right right. Yeah, So I went back and looked at

462
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 4: because you know, COP twenty eight. That's renumber right. So

463
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 4: I went back and looked at like COP one and

464
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 4: two and three, right, and so you know, the planks

465
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 4: and the things, the basic you know things were being

466
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 4: discussed at those in the mid nineties into the early

467
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 4: two thousands. We're basically the exact same, right. Cop Cop

468
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 4: two right in Geneva, Switzerland was basically about do we

469
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 4: want uniform policies or do we want flexibility? Do we

470
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 4: want legally binding mid term targets or do we want

471
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 4: larger principles upon which we will all adhere.

472
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 3: You know.

473
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 4: Cop three was the big Kyoto protocol one. Cop four

474
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 4: was like we need we are pledging for a two

475
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 4: year plan of action, right right, you know, and that's

476
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 4: like us, you know, two year plan of action, two

477
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 4: year plan of action, I mean. And then you know,

478
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 4: you look at like Cop six seven eight, this question

479
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 4: of financial assistance for developing countries and this question of

480
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 4: kind of how to you know, developing countries need to

481
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 4: use carbon in order to advance their economic principles, but

482
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 4: also you know they're going to be affected back like

483
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 4: that is just like year after year after year after year,

484
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 4: it's just comes up. People say some things. It doesn't

485
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 4: get fully results. So it is kind of remarkable.

486
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't until last year where they're like,

487
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: all right, I guess we can put some together.

488
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 4: For these other right, And so I mean like, oh,

489
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: I think it's right. And it does feel like in

490
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 4: this first the fact that that got accomplished on the

491
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 4: first day of the conference did the sort of surprise

492
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 4: some climate activists and you know probably also then like

493
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 4: let everyone at the conference be like, well, we did

494
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 4: a good thing on day one, so we can just

495
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 4: you know, lobby and party for the rest of it.

496
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 4: But can I can I ask a sort of bigger

497
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 4: picture question of the two of you for something I've

498
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: been thinking about with climate activism and sort of you

499
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 4: know what needs to get done, which is I think

500
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 4: we've moved so far past the point where like a

501
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 4: single solution or even like a single kind of group

502
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 4: like oh, the people are going to get together in

503
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 4: Kyoto at COP three and kind of like governments are

504
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 4: going to figure this out. We've moved so far past

505
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: that idea of like a couple central answers to this

506
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 4: that weirdly it feels like now we're in a or

507
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 4: we might as well try everything moment, right, and I

508
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 4: think talking to folks you know, who are active in

509
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 4: climate change, like that is where we're at, right. It's

510
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 4: like no one solution, no one political process, no one

511
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 4: country is going to solve this. We just kind of

512
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 4: have to try everything. And I weirdly find a little

513
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 4: solace in that in that, like the guardrails, the abdication

514
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 4: of responsibility is sort of off for most people, and

515
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: it's just kind of like, well, we got to try everything,

516
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 4: and so you know, maybe this is just maybe this

517
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 4: is a sort of me giving up in some way.

518
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 4: But I'm like, if cop accomplishes a you know, two

519
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 4: percent of something, great, because over here someone's going to

520
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 4: accomplish two percent over here, and that's the only way

521
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 4: this is going to happen. Is just like a million

522
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 4: different things nudging progress a little bit forward, as opposed

523
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 4: to what we were doing for I think for a

524
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: long time, which was sort of saying like, well, world

525
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 4: leaders need to get together and get their act together.

526
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: And I think that you know idea is long gone.

527
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Like it kind of the thing kind of

528
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 2: reminds me of like those like scenes and like a

529
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: like a superhero comedy film where someone's trying to get

530
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: away in a car and the superheroes just lifting the

531
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: car from the back so the wheels can't move right,

532
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 2: and like that's what this feels like. The cars like

533
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: it could go forward if these ass holes let the

534
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: let go and let it move forward. And then so

535
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: we get these little incremental changes that like are absolutely heartening.

536
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: I think it's just and then but looking at the

537
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: totality of it, it's like, God, there's still so much

538
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: energy and investment to basically offset whatever gains there are

539
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: to continue like the profitability of the extraction. But I think,

540
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 2: like to your point, it is better to think of

541
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: like that there are many ways to potentially achieve this,

542
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: whether it's through like how fucking like the dairy industry

543
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: is working, or agriculture these other things, and if many

544
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 2: of these things can come together that there we may

545
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: find a way here. But the biggest thing is it's

546
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: it's these nations. It's these state actors who are really

547
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: have a lot of control over like the sheer volume

548
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: of emissions. And when you know that, like they're like, hey,

549
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: we're bringing our lobbyists to to COP twenty eight to

550
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: represent our gas industries. Just like, like, how serious are we?

551
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: So I'm less nothlistic and then maybe I'm just more

552
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: deeply frustrated. Yes, that's that's kind of where I'm at.

553
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: I would say I'm curious when in looking back at

554
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: the past cops, do you, like, would your sense be

555
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: if there was some way to quantify like the actual

556
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: beneficial ideas or you know, progress that came from each

557
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: one of them, Like, how do you think if we

558
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: were to rank the top twenty eight cops?

559
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 4: Okay, top twenty eight, how long do you have?

560
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: Twenty six? But I'm just wondering because it feels like

561
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: putting a meeting together, a meeting of the minds with

562
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: this as a as the central goal is a good

563
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: idea in theory. Once it becomes a place for various

564
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: companies to strategize, like in the presence of people talking

565
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: about things that are specifically meant to hem them in

566
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: like then it almost becomes like you're building an institutional

567
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: means for just skirting all the laws and all of

568
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: the things that we're trying to do. Because yeah, I

569
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: totally agree, Like it's not going to be one silver bullet,

570
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: It's going to be a lot of things. But those

571
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: all of those things are going to be avoided with

572
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: precision and legal you know, just millions of hours of

573
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: legal arguments and contracts and things like that put in

574
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: by these companies because that's what they do, like sending

575
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: companies that are focused only on profit for the most part,

576
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: like focused only on profit to be the solution to

577
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: climate change. It just seems so it seems not like

578
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: you know, well we might as well try everything, and

579
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: more like this is actively doing harm, Like it's going

580
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: to be the thing that what will allow us to

581
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: continue down the road that we've been going down. Yeah,

582
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: is my concern.

583
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that. It's like that that quote that

584
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: Homer says and like about beer, except it's like fossil

585
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: fuels the cause of and solution to all life's problems.

586
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 2: You're like, how because there's so many gas on it?

587
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that is a huge thing.

588
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: Like you hear the people how the lobbyists are speaking

589
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: about the industries that the industry they represent, and they're like,

590
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: we have to do this in a humane way, like

591
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: and it's really talking about humane to their company's bottom line,

592
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: but they are, but they couch it in this thing,

593
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: this argument of like, well, we we're gonna need fossil

594
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: fuels to help these other economies get online to get

595
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: to that point. But really, and I think that's what

596
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: makes it really difficult is because there it's easy to

597
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: do this sort of double speak and then from that

598
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: extract like a good headline if you are in the

599
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: more greenwashing sector of this conference, or you can extract

600
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: a good headline if you're there to protect the investments

601
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: or whatever. So it it's just kind of wild though too,

602
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: because we're in this like liminal space where like they're

603
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: rich and powerful, are still doing their old school shit,

604
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: like you know, like just self dealing in full view

605
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: of the public, but because they were used to like

606
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: a public that was just uninformed or apathetic, and now

607
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: people are.

608
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck? Hold on? Who's running the conference?

609
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 4: How many lobbyists? And they're like, what the Well, it's

610
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 4: a reality check where I think, you know, over the

611
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: last year or two in the US, you know, I

612
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: think you could probably tell yourself a story that like, oh,

613
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 4: you know, the sort of capitalistic market incentives and the

614
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: energy and the climate change have kind of moved a

615
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 4: little more in parallel and are maybe working a little

616
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 4: more in sync right over the last year, and I think,

617
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: you know, for sure the Biden's bill has a big

618
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: part of that, and that was the sort of calculus there.

619
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 4: And then you just you know, to your point, well

620
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 4: as you get this like wake up call where it's

621
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 4: just like a Katari assaultan who's like, what the fuck

622
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 4: are you talking about? I'm an oil guy, Like, let's

623
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: just let's do it.

624
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I brought the guess I just brought the entire

625
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: global oil industry to my back yard. And then we

626
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: can kind of like side plan stuff based on whatever

627
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 2: else is going on. So yeah, it's it's uh, yeah,

628
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: it's one.

629
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 4: One little tidbit just that I noticed here from this

630
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 4: guy that you you shouted out Sultan Ahmed al Jabart,

631
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 4: which is like he spent his first his talk at

632
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 4: the Climate on his first day his major address, like

633
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 4: complaining about the media had misinterpreted him about his climate,

634
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: about his you know, comments earlier about how we'll never

635
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: be able to divest from fossil fuels, and it's just

636
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 4: such a like hallmark powerful person abdication of responsibility to

637
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 4: then like just get their backs up about being misquoted

638
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: and then spend their whole time. I feel like that's

639
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: like if you're president of FIFA, that's all you do.

640
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 4: You complain about media coverage. You don't actually address all

641
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 4: the things. But it's like it's like it was, it's

642
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 4: just such a classic, classic right move and it was just.

643
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: In a classic keynote. You want to open open the

644
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: conference by talking about your own petty book ship, and

645
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: that's how people you get everybody investiate.

646
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: The keynote address for the Conference of the Parties to

647
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: help tackle the issue of Earth death. And you kick

648
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: it off with to all my fucking haters, You're like,

649
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: oh shit, no, no, no, this is this is completely

650
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: gone off the rails.

651
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Amazing. All right, let's move on to the boring Black

652
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: Mirror episode that young people today.

653
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 4: Of the top Cops on the discred Okay Cops, Top.

654
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: Cops, Lessarge from Police.

655
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: Academy, and that's it.

656
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that guy rules just completely oblivious.

657
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: Completely senile. Yeah, that's what we need.

658
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: Was he Henry from Punky Brewster or do I just

659
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: is he just that guy in my memory?

660
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: No way to know, I said, Lessarge Lassard George Gaines,

661
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: That's what was the actor?

662
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: I mean, we can we can well.

663
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: Wait, we'll sidebar, We'll sidebar.

664
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: Anyways, Henry Punky.

665
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he was, he was, Hey, look

666
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: at that. It was Henry Warnemont. I'm Punky par.

667
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: It is all right there. There was an article on

668
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 1: Axios a couple weeks back that is basically just saying

669
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: we're going to be living with roommates until we're fifty.

670
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: That is, on average, the average age of people who

671
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: can rent solo is fifty now, because everyone under that

672
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: age is too poor and the rent is too damn high.

673
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: It also mentions the baby boomers have quote ditched home

674
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: ownership for low maintenance apartments, which makes it sound like

675
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: a breezy lifestyle choice.

676
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: This one easy hack.

677
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, find out about this one easy hack. Real estate

678
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: agents don't want you to know about. Sell your house

679
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: to them.

680
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: Sell your house to a corporate entity.

681
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: Yes, the one that really jumped out to me eighty

682
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: seven percent jump in the number of Americans age twenty

683
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: five to thirty four living at home in twenty twenty

684
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: one compared to the previous decade. Meanwhile, the typical repeat

685
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: home buyer is currently fifty eight according to data from

686
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: the National Association of realtors, and you know, there's been

687
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: a lot of reporting from There's a New York Times

688
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: article from last year. There's a Script's article from earlier

689
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: this year about how more and more single family homes

690
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: than ever are being purchased by investors, which ties into

691
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: our special episode about private equity companies from earlier in

692
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: the year. I think who killed the free ambulance?

693
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: Was that?

694
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: H what it was called? Something along those.

695
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 4: Lines, just industry by industry, just following it out.

696
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And there's this one quote in

697
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: the Script's news article that I just want to read

698
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: to you guys word for word. There are billions of

699
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: dollars trillions of just sloshing around in the economy looking

700
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: for places to go. Where do we go? What are

701
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: we going to invest in? Real estate is a really,

702
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: really good investment, said Mike Delpre, a global real estate

703
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: text strategist and scholar. It's definitely an issue worth paying

704
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: attention to. So from his perspective, it's like an issue

705
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: worth paying attention to.

706
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: Scholar.

707
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: Yes, he's a real estate text strategist and scholar at

708
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: the University of Colorado, Boulder.

709
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: I wonder if that was like a description he gave

710
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: to them. He's like, yeah, you can describe me as

711
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 2: this and.

712
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: That about s h oh, I'm a scholar of making

713
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: that bank.

714
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah oh no, it's s C A L L E R.

715
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: I'm a shot caller, that's what.

716
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, s collar, I'm sorry, did you not get it?

717
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: Tell y'all what to do with these houses? You can

718
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: get funk right out of here. I'm a college.

719
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: That is ultimately where the where the term schott came from,

720
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: of course, just the original shot colors. Yeah, I don't know.

721
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: For first of all, very infuriating for you know, when

722
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: most people's lived reality is check to check that. The

723
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: investor classes problem is like what how do we unburden

724
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: ourselves from all these trillions of dollars that came our

725
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: way during the pandemic?

726
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: Just that that that fucking metaphor. It's so it's just

727
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: so wild, right because it's like you're like you're acknowledging

728
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: a finite resource like money, and many people don't have it,

729
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: and like you're likning it to like having like a

730
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: kiddie pool of just like fucking water slashing everywhere while

731
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: people are like dying.

732
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, I got.

733
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: Money problems too, man, dude, it's just slashing everywhere.

734
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: The money problem. Shit, yeah, like I get it, but.

735
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. And there's always like an industry

736
00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: person who's like, guys that private companies buying up single

737
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: family homes not a big deal, Like we're actually not

738
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: that big of the industry, Like I barely matter. I suck, okay,

739
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: like none of don't even you don't, like, why are

740
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 1: you even talking to me? I suck. There's nothing here,

741
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: which is usually a bad sign when like an industry

742
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: group just keeps trying to be like guys, I like,

743
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm shit. Why are you you know there's there's

744
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: this is a non story, But I don't know. It

745
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: just seems like when you talk to like the New

746
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: York Times article from spring of last year was just

747
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: looking at an individual I think it was Charlotte real

748
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: Estate Market and it's just when it and I found

749
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: this to be true anybody who is thinking about like

750
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: trying to buy a home or you know, like this

751
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: is the number one thing they mentioned now is that

752
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: like you are going to get scooped by some company,

753
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: Like they talk to this woman who is trying to

754
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: buy a single family home, in Charlotte instead forced to

755
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: down from a rental home to an apartment. And you know,

756
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: the the car that or the home that she wants

757
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 1: to buy is bought my tricon Residential, who owns sixteen

758
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: hundred homes.

759
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 4: And yeah, this got me thinking about a kind of

760
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 4: bigger sort of story I feel like in my life.

761
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 4: And I'm curious how you think about kind of home

762
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 4: ownership and how I've thought about it, you know, because

763
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 4: I do think like I'm of a generation where I

764
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 4: did push back or you know, kind of there was

765
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 4: a car it was I thought a really important conversation

766
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 4: about like, well, is home ownership the sort of goal,

767
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 4: you know, and our parents that was the thing for

768
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: our parents coming, you know, and I was like, to

769
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 4: buy a home and effort. That is the American dream.

770
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 4: And I, you know, I think I became convinced and

771
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 4: I kind of probably spouted language along these lines of like, well,

772
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 4: you know, that's not the fit for everyone, you know,

773
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 4: and maybe it's not the fit for me. And and

774
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 4: I wonder if we were kind of sold, well, we

775
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 4: were kind of being sold to that idea. They're like, no,

776
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 4: it's not you know, it's not Yeah, it's the American

777
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 4: dream anymore. There's other ways in the meantime. You know,

778
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: that option was just being ripped off the table to

779
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 4: begin with, and that I think is the real sort

780
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 4: of tragedy here. It's just it's not just that, like

781
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 4: everyone should own a home and that is the most

782
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 4: you know, that is still the sort of definition of

783
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 4: the American dream, but just the lack of options and

784
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 4: that everyone I know, you know, and all the people

785
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 4: in the reporting here, the pervading feeling is just constriction,

786
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 4: you know, and the inability to even make a choice

787
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 4: and have agency and sort of figure out what's best

788
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 4: for yourself. And I think that's like, you know, that's

789
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 4: incredibly tragic. And I will say, like, you know, this

790
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 4: may be taking us a little bit of far afield,

791
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 4: but I will say, like, when I think about this

792
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 4: kind of big conversation that's happening, and it will only

793
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 4: build going into next year about the disconnect between people's

794
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 4: economic feelings and the actual economic indicators that are out there.

795
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 4: And you know, binding has built a pretty good economy,

796
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 4: but people still think the economy is terrible. Yeah, housing

797
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: is the answer to me, right, Yeah, you can look

798
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 4: at every other you know, metric about ways growth and

799
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 4: inflation going down and all these other things. But if

800
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 4: you just like can't get from here to there, if

801
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 4: you want to own a home, like I don't think

802
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 4: any of those other metrics matten or if you feel

803
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 4: like that's like a big part of it, I think.

804
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're on the verge of not making rent like that,

805
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: then yeah, homelessness is like, you know, something that hangs

806
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: over a lot of people who are still might show

807
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: up on that as like employed, and you know, but

808
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: being employed and the precarity of like being in a

809
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: gig economy, you know, role is like that's not a

810
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 1: comfortable place to be and a lot of these things

811
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: are things that have just changed generation to generation.

812
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 2: You know.

813
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 4: You know, it does it does tie into that sort

814
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 4: of gig economy overall, like a gig ification of our

815
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 4: lives that like oh yeah, you know, yeah, if you're

816
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: under forty, like the way you want to live your

817
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 4: life is just like improvising every day, you know, like

818
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 4: just move around and your rent and you figured this out,

819
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 4: you figured this out, you have a I think I

820
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 4: don't think so. I think, yeah, likes the building well.

821
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: And I think like the cop What what happened to

822
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: the COP conference is a.

823
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 4: I think you're going to say, a cop on the slide.

824
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: What happened the slide? Happened to the US economy?

825
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: No, what would tipping in there? And it just fucked

826
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: us up. On the other end, Well, you.

827
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: Have corporations and like private equity companies as like the

828
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: major decision makers and like designers of an entire civilization

829
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: for for decades, which it seems like we've had for

830
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: for a while now, and like really being the power

831
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: that politicians have to you know, push back against and

832
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: often like listen to like this is kind of what

833
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: you end up with where it's just like their flexibility

834
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: is the thing that ends up being you know, unshakable

835
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: and not like people's security at the end of the

836
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: day and feeling secure. So it just feels like any

837
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: anywhere where they have fully where like massive corporations or

838
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: private equity or you know, the people who view money

839
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: as a problem in the sense that they what to

840
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: do with all this money being the problem that they're

841
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: trying to solve, Like when those are the only people

842
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: making the decisions, like you end up with subtle fissures

843
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: in like day to day life of people who aren't

844
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: making those decisions that don't don't look great, don't feel great.

845
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a Senate bill that would close legal,

846
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: tax and regulatory loopholes that allow private equity firms to

847
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 1: capture all the rewards of the investments in real estate

848
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: while insulating them from risk. And it has sat in

849
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: committees since Elizabeth Warren and Searrod Brown introduced it in

850
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: October of last year. So it's yeah, it's.

851
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: There's like, yeah, I think Rocana also has a bill

852
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: about banning corporate landlords because like when you look at it,

853
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: I mean, this problem is only increasing, and you know,

854
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: Jeff Bezos just put like a ton of money into

855
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: this like new company. This is like an investment company

856
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: called Arrived that basically allows people to like like become

857
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: sort of small time landlords. It's like, well you can

858
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: get you can own a property for as little as

859
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars by like crowd crowd fucking people like that.

860
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 8: And that's sort of like this new like we're just

861
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 8: seeing all these entry points to sort of either because

862
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 8: I see something like this, a lot of people that

863
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 8: are defending this company. It's like, well, They're not like

864
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 8: one of these institutional corporate landlords like invitation Homes that

865
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 8: owns eighty thousand single family rental homes or like Blackstone.

866
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 8: They're like, this is actually allowing people just a way

867
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 8: to have that kind of security or those aspirations in

868
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 8: a way that's realistic for them.

869
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: And really it's just more like they're being like, you

870
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: could be a landlord, dude, Like you're not gonna live here,

871
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: but you can you can fucking maybe profit off of

872
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 2: this situation.

873
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: They're not a Blackstone, more of a gray Stone, which

874
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: is also a massive corporate.

875
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 4: How many colors are left white Zone.

876
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: Brownstone, Yeah, mister Brownstone, all right, well let's uh, let's

877
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: take a break and we'll come back and talk about

878
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: less depressing things. Maybe we'll see maybe maybe we'll be

879
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: right back and we're back and yeah. So, first of all,

880
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: I'd just be interested in hearing because I think some

881
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: of the stuff from the world of recovery can be

882
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: like I won't like bring it into my day to

883
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: day life because I'm like, well, that's like a different thing,

884
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: and like people who aren't in recovery won't necessarily understand that.

885
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: At the same time, that I feel like people are

886
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: talking about, like problems that could be serviced from just

887
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: like you know, some of these things that we're talking

888
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear more about like the power

889
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: our idea or just like ways that you have seen

890
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: just you know, structurally getting people to interact with one

891
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: another more or you know, doing that for yourself, how

892
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: you specifically get yourself to interact with people on a

893
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: more humane, active, active listening level.

894
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting in the context of recovery.

895
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: It's when you share your experience, strength and hope. And

896
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: it's okay not to have to share the entire story

897
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: of your struggles, but the experience, the strength, and the

898
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: hope is how you live your life on a regular

899
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 3: basis that works for you, right, And so a big

900
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: part of the listening is number one, being able to

901
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 3: have some reflective time to be able to know what

902
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: that is right. What do I actually I think about

903
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: this a lot is what do I do on a

904
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: regular basis. I meditate, I do do some journaling. I

905
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: think a lot about how I'm treating people. You know,

906
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 3: I'm really gentle with myself when I make mistakes, but

907
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 3: I try to make amends when I do that, and

908
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 3: then being able to share that with other people, but

909
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 3: also ask questions to create space for other people to

910
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 3: share things about their lives. And a big part of

911
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: this is when we're connecting with people, there are phases

912
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 3: of we don't have to always share the entire war story,

913
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 3: right if it's not appropriate, if it's not the day,

914
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: if it's not the right venue. But sometimes we throw

915
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 3: the baby out with the bathwater. We can still just

916
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: share little bites of like, you know, I see that

917
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 3: you're having this struggle with I don't know what it is,

918
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 3: maybe getting up and going to the gym. The way

919
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: that I this is my strategy for when I don't

920
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 3: want to do things right, I make a call, or

921
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: I get a part, I get someone that holds me accountable,

922
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: or just kind of sharing some wisdom that might be

923
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: supportive for each other. And so even if we can

924
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 3: kind of infuse that into some of our conversations, that's

925
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 3: really important. It's interesting during the Power Hour, one of

926
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 3: the things that I do is I listen so intently

927
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 3: to this, in this case my uncle speaking, that I'm

928
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 3: able to repeat and summarize almost everything that he said

929
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: in the entire forty five minutes, and people always find

930
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 3: it to be some kind of superhero power, but it's not.

931
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: I literally am just fully engaged in fully listening, and

932
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: I'm not allowing my thinking to interrupt my ability to

933
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: take in the wisdom that he's sharing. And so there's

934
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: an actual process and strategy to be that good of

935
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 3: a listener so that you can get the value out

936
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 3: of the experience and the strength and the hope that

937
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 3: other people have. So we really miss out when our

938
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 3: listening is tainted.

939
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: How would you say, We know, like we're most normal,

940
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 2: like not normal, but most people who aren't being conscious

941
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: of this are quote unquote listening, right, because I'll be like, yeah,

942
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: I'm when people talk, I'm hearing what they're saying, and

943
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: then that's it. But yeah, what's sort of like the

944
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: what are those sort of finer points that are different

945
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: about those these ways of listening?

946
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 3: So this is almost like a personality test. You have

947
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: listening personalities, right, So there are people that listen in

948
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: a very specific way. So for example, I know some

949
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 3: people I'm trying not to mention names it, right, some

950
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 3: people that they are they're what I call a plugger,

951
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: which means that like, no matter what you say, I

952
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 3: don't care what kind of story you tell, They're always

953
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: going to kind of plug something in about themselves or

954
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 3: even plug something that benefits them. Then you've got the

955
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 3: fact checker, right, yeah, podcasting, right, So then you have

956
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 3: someone that's like the fact checker, where every single time,

957
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 3: like you say something, they stop you and you're just

958
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 3: trying to tell a story that like whether or not

959
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 3: it happened in you know, eighteen seventy three or seventy

960
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: four is not the point, but they will stop you

961
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 3: and say something like are you sure that happened? Then

962
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 3: what I read was that it happened in And it's like, that's.

963
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: Not the called being a podcast listener.

964
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 3: This is ACA And my favorite one is The Helper,

965
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 3: which I have to be careful about not being that person,

966
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: but I watch it and you know, again we're gentle

967
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: with ourselves. Is when you're a person that someone is

968
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 3: maybe telling you a story or they're trying to get

969
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: some support and you just jump in there without knowing

970
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 3: the full contacts, and you're like context, all you need

971
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 3: to do is just just get up and go to

972
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 3: the gym every day and just run a mile if

973
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 3: you heard it right, Just just eat. Someone told me.

974
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: I was like, cause I've struggled with I'm always trying

975
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 3: to figure out what to do with weight, you know,

976
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 3: up and down, and just trying to always eat healthy,

977
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 3: and it's it's always been a struggle. So when I

978
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: ask certain people, they're like, I don't get what the

979
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: problem is. Why don't you just eat fish and vegetables

980
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 3: and then work out every day. It's so simple, and yeah,

981
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 3: just just do that. And then they then they go

982
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: and they start like eating their their you know, donut

983
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 3: with like a six pack abs, and I'm like, yeah, thanks,

984
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 3: thanks for the advice. But but he's not really listening

985
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 3: to the context. Like the most important thing that I

986
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: said in that particular instance was that this is hard

987
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 3: for me, right, as opposed to I don't need the

988
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 3: solution per se, but I need maybe a listening ear

989
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 3: to work through why I think it's hard specifically for

990
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 3: me right right. And And again that's what people want

991
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 3: some support. They want you to understand the struggle. They

992
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 3: want you to just get their stories and so that

993
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 3: they can feel validated. And after they're validated, then maybe

994
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 3: they can be open for solutions.

995
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 2: Right In a way, it just sounds like we're basically

996
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 2: decentering ourselves in these interactions. So whether it's our own

997
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 2: urge to demonstrate our knowledge of a topic, or our

998
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: own urge to find a way to make this topic

999
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: be relevant to me, or our own urge to share

1000
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 2: some kind of wisdom, even though that's not what our

1001
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: person is, the person we're speaking to is asking for.

1002
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 2: It's sort of this, yeah, I don't know if it

1003
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: feels like it. It feels so contrary to like how

1004
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 2: we normally communicate with each other too, where it's like, okay,

1005
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: what say the thing about you? Now? Okay, and now

1006
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: I say the thing about me, and I heard the

1007
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: thing you said, and now it's time for me to

1008
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: see the thing I said, rather than just like this

1009
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 2: much more effortless version of like, okay, so you just

1010
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: voiced a thing that you are dealing with, and now

1011
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: I can add to that by asking you to continue

1012
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: going along that, rather than like, oh, yeah, I've been

1013
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 2: through that thing too, and then this is what happened

1014
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 2: and that's that. Okay, now what we don't have anywhere

1015
00:50:58,840 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 2: to go from there.

1016
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: Jack said it it's our urge to be the one, right,

1017
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: We've got to be the one. We've got to be

1018
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: the center of center of attention. And we all do

1019
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 3: it in some ways, but if we can be a

1020
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 3: little aware, yeah.

1021
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I do feel like we might be seeing

1022
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: a generational shift with this, like with younger people, Like

1023
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it might have peaked with like baby

1024
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: boomers being like, you know, self center, just like very

1025
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: focused on the self and everything and all the systems

1026
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: were like sort of designed around that. And what While

1027
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: mental health is not getting better for younger people, I

1028
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: do feel like in some of the things, like the

1029
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: polling that you see, they are kind of acutely aware,

1030
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: like they're more likely to have like socialist leanings, Like

1031
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: they're more interested in like like even like in the

1032
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: growing interest in psychedelics, which are like medicines or drugs,

1033
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: like depending on how you use them. That kind of

1034
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: is all of the ego or like take you out

1035
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: of like the self centeredness of like that way of

1036
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: perceiving the world. I do feel like there are some

1037
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: like glimmers of hope, but I think a lot of

1038
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 1: the mental health problems that we're seeing as like younger

1039
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: people existing in a world that is designed for this

1040
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: completely different paradigm that has been shown to be very,

1041
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: very bad for the continued survival of the species. But

1042
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1043
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like there's a rise in consciousness but

1044
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 3: a decline in connection. Yes, right, So it's like we're

1045
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 3: really conscious about what's going on. I think people are.

1046
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 3: I mean the knowledge you have access to so much knowledge,

1047
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 3: you have access to ideas and technology and innovations, I

1048
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 3: mean on so many levels. But then the question is

1049
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 3: what's going to be the impact long term of us

1050
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 3: really being able to kind of connect and feel interdependent.

1051
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 3: Because really, I mean, you can put me out in

1052
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 3: I like to watch those shows like Naked and Afraid.

1053
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 3: You're out in the woods, and I would say, if

1054
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 3: they gave me the tool, if they said we'll bring

1055
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: your cell phone in your charger, you wouldn't need the matches.

1056
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 3: You wouldn't need anything. You have your cel phone and

1057
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 3: your charger. You can just survive out there and just

1058
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 3: look it up right right right, you can just put it.

1059
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 3: How do you keep warm without matches? I mean it's like,

1060
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: I you know, do you want to take your cell

1061
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 3: phone or do you want to take somebody with you?

1062
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 3: I probably would just take my cell phone. I feel

1063
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: like I could have light, I feel like I can

1064
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 3: know stuff. I'll be good out out in the woods.

1065
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 3: But that is a rise in my consciousness. But it'll

1066
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 3: be you know, I will underestimate the impact of the

1067
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 3: loneliness of being in the woods by myself.

1068
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: Why is it, though, do you think from your perspective,

1069
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: why it's become so easy to let go of the

1070
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: connection part because the connection feels so much better, you know,

1071
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 2: And I get that there's probably a lot more of

1072
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: like these sort of you know, fleeting distractions we have

1073
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: that have probably taken the place, but like it is

1074
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: kind of I'm always surprised when when I really look

1075
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: back and I'm like, oh, yeah, we've we really don't

1076
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: like we really don't put much stock into that anymore

1077
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: when that really was the lifeblood of our humand like,

1078
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 2: are this species for millennia?

1079
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 3: I think that depends on who you have surrounding you,

1080
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 3: because it can feel better, but it also can feel

1081
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 3: like a big hassle. It can feel worse. You have

1082
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 3: a lot of people that are very self conscious, you know,

1083
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 3: if you feel like you're being judged constantly. You have

1084
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 3: people that will just make comments randomly about things. It

1085
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 3: was funny at the you know, at the end of

1086
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 3: the pandemic and a lot of people were going back

1087
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: to work and there are these comments that we came

1088
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 3: in and did some support. There are these comments that

1089
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 3: people were making. Wow, I didn't know you were so short,

1090
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 3: but like, wow, people were just saying these random things.

1091
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 3: They're actually considered in some ways. They can be insults,

1092
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: they can be microaggressions, but it's like, in that particular case,

1093
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 3: why did you just say that?

1094
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: Right?

1095
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,479
Speaker 3: Why are you Why are you just spewing these things

1096
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 3: out of your mouth that are causing you to alienate

1097
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 3: yourself or alienate somebody else. And so again there's there's

1098
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 3: the quality of those connections that I think is really important.

1099
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: Right. Human contact is great in theory, but have you

1100
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: smelled some of us, like it can be.

1101
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 2: A yeah, it's true. I had a firefighter put his

1102
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: respirator on. Well, he was in line with me at

1103
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: the supermarket earlier this week. Did not feel good. Really yeah,

1104
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: he's like this guy is right, yeah, And I was,

1105
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 2: oh he put it yeah yeah, yeah, Sorry that joke

1106
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: did not land, And you know what, that's okay. That's

1107
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: why I embraced failure and I cannot be Yeah, there

1108
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: you go.

1109
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 3: What And have you read the research around all this

1110
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 3: stuff into you know, they say that there's bad stuff

1111
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 3: for you in toothpaste, bad stuff and deodorant. I have

1112
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 3: like decided that I'm keeping the bad deodorant, the bad toothpaste.

1113
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 2: But apparently she's good crystal.

1114
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: You just wrote crystals, crystals don't do anything.

1115
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 3: I've decided I am not doing crystals, and I'm not

1116
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 3: doing natural toothpaste either.

1117
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: But I smell good, tell hell smell Yeah, you so good.

1118
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 2: We haven't done that. We haven't done the show in

1119
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 2: person for years.

1120
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I do feel like one thing that I've noticed

1121
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: in myself is that the psychology of like how we

1122
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 1: interact with one another, modern interactions are are much more curated,

1123
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: Like I just in comparison in comparing like my day

1124
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 1: to day life with people in the past, like where

1125
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: the being being in communities where you know, Now I

1126
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: have kids, Now I'm just interacting with other parents and

1127
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: it's not like, well I choose their like top of

1128
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: my list of like people to hang out with. They're

1129
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, my kids friends' parents in some cases and

1130
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: or you know, in recovery, you're just thrown into a

1131
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: room with other people who have the same problem as you,

1132
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: but they are in a lot of cases not the

1133
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: person who you would have ever found yourself in the

1134
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: same room with. And in a lot of ways, I

1135
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 1: feel like that is mimicking how people used to live, right,

1136
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: like you knew your neighbor and interacted with them whether

1137
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: you liked them or not, and like your friends were

1138
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: based on who was on your I don't know, bowling team.

1139
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: I think they used to bowl a lot. It's just

1140
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, But I do feel like part of my

1141
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: problem at least is like trying to be like, all right,

1142
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: is this the perfect interaction?

1143
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: Is this?

1144
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: Like you know, I am putting a lot of pressure

1145
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: on these interactions, Like finding the right people to surround

1146
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: myself with is first of all, can be beneficial for

1147
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: the reasons that you're mentioning, like you don't want to

1148
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: surround yourself with toxic people. But at the same time,

1149
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: I think I can also like overly curate, like in

1150
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: the in the way that a lot of like media

1151
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: now is just like me scrolling through four hundred movies

1152
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: to figure out, like what the best movie is when

1153
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: some of my favorite movie watching experiences were just like

1154
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: back in the day, scrolling or you know, flipping past

1155
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: TNT and yeah, you know, a movie's on and you're like, well,

1156
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: that's the movie you're hanging out with for the night.

1157
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: I guess I'll watch two thirds of this movie exactly.

1158
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: So Yeah, I just wonder if you know, being a

1159
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: little more willing to spend time with people, whether or not.

1160
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: And I guess I guess that's kind of by necessity.

1161
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: If we're spending time with other people, like on a

1162
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: regular basis, that's going to happen, right, Yeah.

1163
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 3: I think one of the things if you watch children

1164
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: and animals play together, they seem to have like a system.

1165
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 3: You know, you'll see little kids they just go up

1166
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 3: and they certainly either like they kind of tap each

1167
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 3: other and run. They just start running and it's almost

1168
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 3: like we're in the same world and we're just going

1169
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 3: to run. Or like the dogs they come up and

1170
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 3: it's like they have a little sniff going on, and

1171
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 3: it almost seems like all the dogs know and you

1172
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 3: know you're supposed to like, you know, they kind of

1173
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 3: communicate with each other. I feel like human beings we

1174
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 3: don't really have a system, and we see we think

1175
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: we do because we just say hello and you know,

1176
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 3: give these greetings. But I think we just need to

1177
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: embrace the awkwardness. There is just interactions that are more

1178
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 3: awkward than others. But that's okay. If you stay in

1179
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 3: there for just a little bit longer, you might have,

1180
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 3: as you were talking about Jack, you might create a

1181
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 3: friend that you never thought you knew. This is why

1182
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 3: we gravitate too much toward people just like us, as

1183
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 3: we're trying to run away from any feeling of discomfort,

1184
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 3: any feeling of awkwardness. So if you have a room

1185
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 3: of people, you're going to gravitate towards someone you know

1186
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 3: you need, you need a starter. They're from your hometown,

1187
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 3: they might look like you, and we kind of just

1188
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 3: deprive ourselves of so many relationships that would be nice.

1189
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 3: But you just have to kind of get past this

1190
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 3: initial awkward moment of I don't know what to say,

1191
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 3: I don't know what questions to ask. But if you've

1192
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 3: ever had those experiences, it takes just a couple of

1193
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 3: minutes to get there. Then all of a sudden, you know,

1194
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 3: those people can end up being some really great friends

1195
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 3: and great connections.

1196
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if you're different, if they're different from you

1197
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: and you're focusing on like what you can learn from them, Like,

1198
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: then the more different they are from you, the more

1199
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: you can kind of learn from them. Right.

1200
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in the book you just have some questions

1201
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 3: that you ask people. But we have to learn this

1202
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 3: art of just engaging, putting people at ease and being

1203
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 3: comfortable with ourselves.

1204
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I to your point, Like I was at

1205
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 2: an event like a couple of weeks ago, and I

1206
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 2: was just standing next to a person who was like

1207
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 2: seemingly I was like, I don't know what I would

1208
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: have in common with this person, but we realized there

1209
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: was like a mutual connection there and just started talking.

1210
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: By the end, this person, who if I was just

1211
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 2: going off of the sort of same thing, I'm like,

1212
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: are they from La do they kind of like do

1213
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: we look like we kind of fuck with the same stuff? No?

1214
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 2: Not really, And then by the end of it, they

1215
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 2: were like super into comedy, super into basketball, like super

1216
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: into like similar art. And that all just happened from

1217
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: just just embracing just sort of like the awkward momentum

1218
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: of being like, oh what else, Like oh, yeah, yeah,

1219
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 2: and then just kind of seeing where the conversation leads

1220
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: and yeah, like almost it proves my own instincts wrong

1221
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 2: where you're like, I I got everybody figured out mostly

1222
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 2: and then like oh no, like and then to the

1223
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: point I was talking to my partner like we should

1224
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 2: kick it with them, Like his partner seem cool too,

1225
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: Like where did that happen from? And I don't know.

1226
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: I think it's it's because, like I think I've fully

1227
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 2: let those skills of like being curious about other people

1228
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 2: just kind of die too, I think, as I think

1229
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 2: it just comes along with age. And I hope everybody listening. Look,

1230
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: Jack and I are not just sitting in like darkened

1231
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: like a dank cave not talking anybody. I mean sometimes

1232
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 2: we do, but yeah, there is like there is just

1233
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 2: like this other, I don't know, very basic part of

1234
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 2: being a human that I realize I've really let kind

1235
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: of to disintegrate in this to a certain extent because

1236
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: of how much like all these things that are at

1237
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 2: my disposal, whether that be through social media or technology,

1238
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 2: and I'm forgetting about the you know, the good old

1239
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: fashioned analogue stuff, you know, talking to people.

1240
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I spend a lot of time really selling this

1241
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 3: concept because here's the deal, right, you have a limited

1242
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 3: amount of time. It's just it's easier to watch Netflix,

1243
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 3: it's easier to be on the phone, it's easier not

1244
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 3: to connect. And so what's in it for you? Why?

1245
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 3: Why move through discomfort?

1246
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: Why?

1247
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 3: Because it does take a little bit of effort and

1248
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 3: work right to connect to different people. It's the answer

1249
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 3: just so many challenges, and I think one thing that

1250
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 3: we miss in life is that we have these problems,

1251
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 3: we have these challenges even in like addiction. Like the

1252
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 3: answer is the connection, right, it's connecting to a higher power,

1253
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 3: it's connecting to other people. But the answer is like

1254
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 3: you have to work it. You have to work it right.

1255
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 3: But the benefit is, oh my gosh, look what happened.

1256
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 3: I surrendered something. Life got better and life continue to

1257
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 3: get better. And now, like you know, I'm transforming my

1258
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 3: relationships and at the end of the day, I am

1259
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 3: much happier because I put in this effort. And so

1260
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 3: that is the core of this is we have to

1261
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 3: learn the skills and so with their habits that you

1262
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 3: do every single day that helps us to recover from disconnection.

1263
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, that's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist.

1264
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: Please like and review the show if you like, the

1265
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: show means the world de Miles. He he needs your validation, folks.

1266
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,919
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great weekend and I will

1267
01:03:16,920 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: talk to him Monday. Byett