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Speaker 1: In this podcast, we're going to talk frankly but sensitively

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Speaker 1: about some tough issues, including sexual abuse, drugs, and suicide.

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Speaker 1: If you or someone you know is suicidal in the

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Speaker 1: US Down nine eighty eight, check out this podcast notes

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Speaker 1: page for information on LGBT plus mental health resources in

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Speaker 1: your community.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to this bonus episode of Shattering the System. I'm

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Speaker 2: Scenari Glnton ed Buck is currently serving his three hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty month sentence in federal prison. That's thirty years

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Speaker 2: and it's effectively a life sentence. Now. The reason that

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Speaker 2: we wanted to do this podcast in the first place

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Speaker 2: was we didn't think that ed Buck was an anomaly

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Speaker 2: and we wanted to do something different with this episode.

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Speaker 2: So often these kind of true crime podcasts aren't made

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Speaker 2: by the communities that are being covered. So we thought

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Speaker 2: we'd gather a group of gay men from the community

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Speaker 2: that Jamel Moore and Timothy Dean were part of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: And after spending so much time thinking about the darkest

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Speaker 2: parts of gay black life in the city, we were

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Speaker 2: looking for something a little more hopeful. So a few

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Speaker 2: weeks ago I sat down with an amazing group of

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Speaker 2: young men. They are all gay black Out and in

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Speaker 2: various ways a part of the ballroom community that we

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Speaker 2: heard about in earlier episodes of this show. So we're

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Speaker 2: going to start off getting an understanding of the effects

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Speaker 2: the death of Jamel Moore and Timothy Dean had on

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Speaker 2: gay black men who come to Los Angeles hunting for

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Speaker 2: a dream. And then the second part of the show,

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Speaker 2: we'll hear from the founders of the Black and Missing Foundation.

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Speaker 2: We'll hear why some victims stories captured the imagination of

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Speaker 2: the media, and why black victims often don't. But first

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Speaker 2: my conversation with a group of young men who are

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Speaker 2: part of the ballroom scene with a connection to the

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Speaker 2: victims of ed Buck. If you can go around the

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Speaker 2: table and have each of you just quickly introduce yourself,

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Speaker 2: your name, and your ballroom name, maybe that is a

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Speaker 2: good thing to start with.

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Speaker 3: My name is Cali de Quan and I am now

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Speaker 3: a double O seven. In the ballroom scene.

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Speaker 4: Hello, I am the Roman Woods. I go by Rome

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Speaker 4: Ebony in the ballroom scene.

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Speaker 5: Hello World.

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Speaker 6: For the few who might not know, I am the

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Speaker 6: ever legendary Byron Keaton the Key Key scene, I am

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Speaker 6: in the international iconic House of Juicy couture and on

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Speaker 6: the mainstream scene, I am in the International Hall of

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Speaker 6: Fame house of mi Akei Mouglaire. I will never forget

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Speaker 6: that the second that had happened around my time just

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Speaker 6: moving to Los Angeles, and that was actually the first

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Speaker 6: protest I attended with community members.

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Speaker 2: So the second death was Timothy Dean And so you

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Speaker 2: you went to a protest. Where was that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this was actually what Hollywood I side of Airbus

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Speaker 5: home with.

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Speaker 6: This is when we knew for sure that the community

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Speaker 6: was out of hand, and we knew that this was

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Speaker 6: beyond intention, that this was a monster we were dealing with. Right.

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Speaker 6: I have friends that did the documentary as well, so

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Speaker 6: I'm very familiar with this case. And to me, this

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Speaker 6: was also dark reality. As you were even mentioning your

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Speaker 6: clip that I knew that Los Angeles was another place.

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Speaker 6: So there was another battle that you had the fight

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Speaker 6: outside of being the dream seecret writer coming here to

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Speaker 6: live the life of your dreams. But this was something

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Speaker 6: else that another barrier that was now in place.

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Speaker 7: Help me unpack that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like the La thing, exeparate like being So

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Speaker 2: there's the dream of being in La Yes, and then

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Speaker 2: there's being black and gay in LA.

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Speaker 5: And the reality of that. Right.

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Speaker 6: So even for example, Tim was at the time I

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Speaker 6: was a seat filler, professional audience going all that, and

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Speaker 6: he was too. We were in the same agency, a

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Speaker 6: sorrow standing on only. So this was also a cold right,

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Speaker 6: which is when and most things, as we all know,

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Speaker 6: the world is so vast, but nothing really hits you

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Speaker 6: until it hit home, when it's when it's in proximity, right,

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Speaker 6: So when that hit that's when I knew that I

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Speaker 6: had to stand up.

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Speaker 4: I was highly sought after by people like Ed buck By,

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Speaker 4: like predatory people, and by people that had good intentions.

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Speaker 4: You know, whenever somebody sees something fresh in any in

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Speaker 4: any arena, they gravitate to it and they want to

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Speaker 4: see what it's about.

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Speaker 6: Same coming to Los Angeles, I really didn't throw myself

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Speaker 6: into like dating.

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Speaker 5: It's actually recent, more recent for.

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Speaker 3: Me and then as black men in general, I think

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Speaker 3: we're fetisige like as a stereotype too, based off of

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Speaker 3: our physical features. What we packing the girls to the aeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, just the muscles, the strong like.

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Speaker 3: I think we're just fetishage as a as a whole.

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Speaker 4: I mean there's predators come in any shape, form color.

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Speaker 4: You can be fetishized for your youth. I was nineteen

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Speaker 4: when I moved out here. There's people that enjoy calling

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Speaker 4: me son.

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Speaker 6: I have a lot of my best friends have dated

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Speaker 6: inter racially. I've never right, so they have come and

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Speaker 6: told me dirt horror stories about especially how most of

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Speaker 6: those relationships end. I've had another friend who at one

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Speaker 6: point was partying, and he told me how they were

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Speaker 6: engaging the intercourse and the guy did ask him to

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Speaker 6: kind of put a bump, which is I believe cocaine

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Speaker 6: in or crack. Right, I'm a sober Susie. I'm the

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Speaker 6: friend that don't smoke, I don't drink. I'm the desnetty driver.

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Speaker 6: I was a church girl.

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Speaker 5: I was all that.

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Speaker 6: So I do get my education from my friends and

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Speaker 6: through culture. Right, So he were telling me how, like

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Speaker 6: the guy ended up even sneaking some on his condiment

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Speaker 6: at one point, just so you know, because you know

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Speaker 6: that enhances the high. So hearing all these stories, like

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Speaker 6: you said, coming to La knowing it to be La

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Speaker 6: La laying and everything being sold, you know, cupcicks and

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Speaker 6: slush sheets, didn't having to realize that these are the

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Speaker 6: horrid realities of having survival sex with my community.

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Speaker 2: Right, I'm gonna sense you talked about coming here. Why

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Speaker 2: don't we play the clip, which is from Jammel's diary.

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Speaker 2: Hear Jamell's words.

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Speaker 8: I pray that I can just get my life together

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Speaker 8: and make it make sense. I helped so many people,

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Speaker 8: but I can't seem to help myself. I honestly don't

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Speaker 8: know what to do. Become addicted to drugs the worst

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Speaker 8: one at that. Ed Buck is the one to think.

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Speaker 8: He gave me my first injection of crystal myth. It

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Speaker 8: was painful, but after all the troubles, I became addicted

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Speaker 8: to the pain and the fantasy.

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Speaker 2: You can hear the pain and anguish. Jamel did the

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Speaker 2: best he possibly could to break his addiction. You know,

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Speaker 2: I got to say, it's not just the fact that

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Speaker 2: ed Buck introduced Jamel to slamming that's so appalling, or

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Speaker 2: the way he treated his victims. It was the illusion

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Speaker 2: that he cared about them. There are so many gay

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Speaker 2: white men who I've run into who say shit like

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Speaker 2: I'm not racist, I love black men, or I only

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Speaker 2: date black men. But then every single part of how

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Speaker 2: they act dehumanizes black men. I'm one hundred percent no,

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Speaker 2: I'm actually one thousand percent sure that ed Buck said

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Speaker 2: that he loved black men. But here's the thing. Ed

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Speaker 2: Buck paid black men to do crystal meth so that

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Speaker 2: he could take pictures of them in underwear. He wasn't

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Speaker 2: really interested in sex necessarily, but he paid to humiliate,

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Speaker 2: in torture black men. For instance, he paid them to

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Speaker 2: let him call them nigger.

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Speaker 7: Well, wow, what a cut off.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the crazy nonsense that white men have said

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Speaker 2: to me in this town in relation to sex. And

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering when you hear about, you know yet an

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Speaker 2: ed Bucks fetish for black men, what what experiences or

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Speaker 2: what thoughts do you have when you hear that?

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Speaker 7: Mhmm.

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Speaker 4: This is room speaking. When you survive, you do, survival

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Speaker 4: is u. Survival is a hell of a thing.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 4: I can't speak for them, but I've definitely been approaching

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Speaker 4: the club and so you know, hey, I'll give you

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Speaker 4: this amount for this and that on dating apps. I'm

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Speaker 4: jin you know, when you walk in West Hollywood, it's

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Speaker 4: the hooting and the hollering and the grabbing and the groping. Uh,

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Speaker 4: it's it's the cat calling and the grooming from your elders,

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Speaker 4: even in the black community. It's the offering of drugs,

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Speaker 4: it's the offering of family with all you want is

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Speaker 4: to fuck.

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Speaker 7: It's so many things.

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Speaker 4: Predators are a plenty, you know, So it's just it's

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Speaker 4: so many.

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Speaker 3: Things me personally CALLI speaking, I didn't come across like

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Speaker 3: fetishization by people until I was on these social apps

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Speaker 3: like Jagged Grand didn't last that long, but there's times

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Speaker 3: like I will only experience this kind of stuff, like

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Speaker 3: people messaging me about like my BBC or blacks only

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Speaker 3: and they're profile and they're a whole white person or

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Speaker 3: BBC only or It wasn't until like honestly, I got

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Speaker 3: out here that I realized that it was actually a thing.

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Speaker 2: So what does it feel like when you're in West

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Speaker 2: Hollywood and someone's like, I don't like personally speak ahead, yeah.

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Speaker 6: This is Byron speaking saying. So I realized historically, I've

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Speaker 6: always had a gift to foster community. So I only

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Speaker 6: go where I feel community, right, I only tech to

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Speaker 6: go to We's Hollywood on Black Night, which is our

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Speaker 6: only two nights of showcasing, which is Thursday, bb and Sunday, right,

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Speaker 6: So I'm intentional if there is not a black space

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Speaker 6: and We's Hollywood are black showcasing or not beaten there?

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Speaker 6: Outside of that, because I have you know, been out

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Speaker 6: any other nights, it does feel overwhelming. I do feel

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Speaker 6: like a fish out of water, like I said, just

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Speaker 6: kind of socially. Now, let's be clear, I have a

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Speaker 6: few eateries and a few like the lifestyle. Wise, I

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Speaker 6: do enjoy what's Hollywood. Shout out to that fro Yo.

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Speaker 6: They just cloth all that, you know, I love the

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Speaker 6: ice cream. But socially, ah in that yeah, and I wouldn't,

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Speaker 6: I would not go out.

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Speaker 7: We has been Callie speaking here.

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Speaker 3: We has been like the area where I run into

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Speaker 3: the most ignorant white people especially but why I can't

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Speaker 3: even call them buch queens the white gay people. And

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Speaker 3: that's just but queen is a ballroom term for a

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Speaker 3: gay male. Yeah, yeah, not yeah basically and yeah, we hole.

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Speaker 3: I don't like the energy of it just because of

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Speaker 3: like just like for example, I can be walking down

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Speaker 3: the street and see Byron or it's just another brother

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Speaker 3: in general, and like where I'm from the South, it's

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Speaker 3: like we speak. If I look you on your eye.

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Speaker 3: We're going to speak to each other when I mean

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Speaker 3: we hold is daggers, like especially when it comes from

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Speaker 3: like white gay males. And I don't want to call

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Speaker 3: it racism or anything like that. I do honestly feel

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Speaker 3: like it's just a cultural difference because I'm from the South.

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Speaker 3: These people are probably raised in the suburbs of wherever

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Speaker 3: they're from, you know, and they are cut from a

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Speaker 3: different cloth.

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Speaker 7: I didn't think that's a black thing. I say this

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Speaker 7: all the time.

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Speaker 2: It's like when like half the world's problems will be

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Speaker 2: solved if white people understood that when a black person

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Speaker 2: looks at you in the face and says hello, you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to respond. That is I go through five cities

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Speaker 2: in fifteen years, and that is no matter where I go,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, how you doing, and like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we hope majority of that time happen.

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Speaker 2: But when you were what you were in but you

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Speaker 2: had to have experiences, So like what were the experiences

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Speaker 2: that led you to have this opinion about West Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Social events like gay events prides that I'll go.

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Speaker 7: To where do you find your community? Ball where we

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Speaker 7: make it?

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Speaker 4: Ye Like, we'll talk even in like the black straight community,

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Speaker 4: we're ostracized, and there's like this stigma against us that

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Speaker 4: we're going to be loud and belligerent and flamboyant. And

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Speaker 4: that's okay if we are, because that's our truth and

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Speaker 4: we have a right to our truth, just like they

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Speaker 4: have a right to theirs. So we've been creating space

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Speaker 4: wherever the fuck we can, Like it's it's like a

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Speaker 4: constant war just to be ourselves and to have a

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Speaker 4: safe space, especially for queer people of color, Like there

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Speaker 4: is no designated area for us. We're always visitors in

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Speaker 4: somebody else's shit. Like literally, when we leave, the white

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Speaker 4: gays come in, and I say white gays, like this

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Speaker 4: is I'm not a prejudiced person or anything like that,

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Speaker 4: but there is a clear shift with how they're treated,

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Speaker 4: with how they're approached with certain things. There's just a clear,

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Speaker 4: a clear shift. Like it it's crazy almost.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, also I can value This is Byron speaking

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Speaker 6: adding value to that point, which is another reason why

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Speaker 6: I have to ballroom for that. I do feel that

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Speaker 6: Ballroom is the nucleus of queer fellowship, especially for the

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Speaker 6: black see me black and brown group. Let's be clear,

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Speaker 6: and that's well all I've known historically, and even in

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Speaker 6: those classes, even at the functions, being amongst the girls,

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Speaker 6: it's where I usually tend to vibe. So also taking

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Speaker 6: accountability in the context of we hold, I find my

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Speaker 6: comfort and home with black and brown bodies. So that's

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Speaker 6: who I tend to fellowship with, which is why when

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Speaker 6: I don't see that or a nice amount of that,

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Speaker 6: I am or I find I'm uncomfortable, right so, and

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Speaker 6: I don't put myself through that on comfort, so I

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Speaker 6: tend to only curate mostly ballroom spaces of black and

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Speaker 6: brown core spaces for that to create a safety.

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Speaker 3: Net, I'm kinlie speaking. I kind of also do feel

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Speaker 3: like racism still kind of plays a major part, and

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Speaker 3: that too, is just very hidden, like it's not out

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Speaker 3: in the air, you know.

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Speaker 7: I do feel like it's.

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Speaker 3: Not necessarily hidden because it's in plain sight.

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Speaker 9: But I feel like.

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Speaker 7: There's black Knight for God's sakes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, have to be an urban night and

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Speaker 3: we you know what I'm saying, like that should already

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Speaker 3: let you know what kind of what kind of space

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Speaker 3: that we ho was designed for.

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Speaker 4: The lines are clearly drawn. It's kind of apparent this

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Speaker 4: is shattering the system. More from my conversation about being

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Speaker 4: black and gay in Los Angeles with members of LA's

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Speaker 4: ballroom community. So one of the more interesting interviews that

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Speaker 4: I did was with a Letlow query at Bucks lawyer

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Speaker 4: black Man uh inac You know, we went in an

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Speaker 4: NAACP And I always think when I talk to him

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Speaker 4: or hear him that he is a version of me.

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Speaker 7: Like I'm like, we're almost the same age.

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Speaker 2: We went to the same type of school, just like

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Speaker 2: you know, he went to Beverly Hills.

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Speaker 7: I went to a fancy school Chicago.

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Speaker 2: The whole thing, bus, all those things, and I the

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Speaker 2: transition that I almost want to make is in hearing

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Speaker 2: about this, is there any do you? How do you

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Speaker 2: see ed Buck in this?

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Speaker 7: Is there any empathy?

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Speaker 2: Is there any?

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Speaker 10: Like?

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Speaker 3: So Cali speaking, I don't have empathy for him. I

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Speaker 3: could say I I won't even have sympathy for him,

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Speaker 3: to be honest, but I do feel like everybody makes

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Speaker 3: a choice, and everybody has a it was responsible for

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Speaker 3: their own decision. So me putting myself in the victim shoes.

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Speaker 3: If I know that I'm homeless right now, or if

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Speaker 3: I know that I'm looking for a shelter or any

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Speaker 3: kind of like resources, and I'm getting on.

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Speaker 7: These apps to look for it.

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Anything can happen out of that, Like I'm literally signing

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Speaker 3: up for anything that can come out of this.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah, I think yeah.

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Speaker 3: And like, I can't put all the blame on I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't put all the blame on him. I do, but

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Speaker 3: I do feel like he is monstrous for the.

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Speaker 4: Like, yeah, okay, I think the word we're looking for

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Speaker 4: for eed Bucket's pity.

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Speaker 7: I pity him.

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Speaker 4: I feel sorry that a being would stoop so low

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Speaker 4: as to inject other human beings with drugs and embarrass them.

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Speaker 4: Everybody has their own fetishes and their own things that

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Speaker 4: they're into. Hey, I don't yuck anybody's young, but when

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Speaker 4: that young is poisonous and disastrous and tainted and carnal

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Speaker 4: and evil.

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Speaker 7: And vile, I don't.

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Speaker 5: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't have empathy for you because I can't put

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Speaker 4: myself in your shoes.

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Speaker 7: That's just not that's not what I can do. And

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Speaker 7: for the victims, for the people, for.

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Speaker 4: The young men that walked into those rooms and that

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Speaker 4: allowed that to happen, I can empathize with them. I

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Speaker 4: can I can empathize with them because I've been a

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Speaker 4: young man that was broke. I've ran out of rouse

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Speaker 4: with Chicken my freaking freshman year here because I was

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Speaker 4: so broke. Like, so I can understand when somebody says, hey,

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Speaker 4: I'll give you a thousand more dollars. You know how

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Speaker 4: much a thousand dollars is to some of that somebody

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Speaker 4: that has nothing. Do you know how much one hundred

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Speaker 4: dollars is to somebody that has nothing?

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Speaker 6: Like, yeah, well I don't I buyron kitchens. Do not

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Speaker 6: pity ed buck or emphathize, well I do. I love

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Speaker 6: your yeahs. But my thing is he's the poster child

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Speaker 6: of what do we I think most fear when we

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Speaker 6: into those spaces of allowing intercourse or fetish played with

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Speaker 6: white men. That he is the peak of that, the

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Speaker 6: pinnacles in my eyes.

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Speaker 5: But yes, do you see him?

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Speaker 2: I mean I sort of see him as in a

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Speaker 2: in a hot moment talking to somebody. It was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you're like, this is just a continue You're like a

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Speaker 2: buckets on And You're right, You're not that far away.

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Speaker 5: You see what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, So that's why

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Speaker 5: to me love black men.

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Speaker 2: That's what he's like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, necessary by any means necessary.

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Speaker 5: Concluding, I thought, yeah, I do. I do not he's

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Speaker 5: to me, I could say he's the ault.

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Speaker 6: He's the leader of what we fear, the fetish to be,

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Speaker 6: especially in the community and especially in a place like

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Speaker 6: Los Angeles where people look at this place for the fantasy,

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Speaker 6: for the life enhancement that it is right.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, to me, he's.

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Speaker 3: And it can be it definitely like Los Angeles can be.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I feel like it all depends on

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Speaker 3: the choices you make personally for yourself.

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Speaker 5: I love Los Angeles.

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Speaker 7: We you know, it's funny. I was.

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Speaker 2: I was. I used to think that life was your choices,

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Speaker 2: like oh I decided to move to l A or

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Then you realize then I started to realize, like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, I was just.

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Speaker 5: Like I was.

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Speaker 2: I was the river yea that was moving along.

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Speaker 5: I love that.

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Speaker 2: It was just like, oh, I didn't choose to be

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Speaker 2: in LA I didn't choose not to do this, Like

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Speaker 2: a lot of these choices were set in front of

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Speaker 2: me as if they were choices.

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Speaker 4: You can equate that to like you a young man

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Speaker 4: a nineteen year old man. Just say, for instance, going

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Speaker 4: into a man like at Buck's house and him saying, hey,

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Speaker 4: I'll give you like one hundred more dollars. I'm hungry.

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Speaker 4: You know he's hungry. What is the choice that he

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Speaker 4: has there? I can either eat and take these drugs

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Speaker 4: because I know I'm strong, I'm nineteen, I could take

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Speaker 4: on the world. I'm not going to get addicted to this.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to do these drugs and I'm going to

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Speaker 4: get this money. I'm going to eat, you know. So

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Speaker 4: that's just that's the choices that they were dep I

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Speaker 4: just heard what you said, and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 4: that's the same thing that happened to them. They just

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Speaker 4: got caught up in the stream kind of a decision

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Speaker 4: that was made for them already.

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Speaker 3: I would disagree because I still feel like like even

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Speaker 3: if me, for example, putting myself in a situation where

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Speaker 3: I need one hundred dollars to get some food or

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Speaker 3: something like that, like knowing what's about be put into

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Speaker 3: my body, I would still fight between is this value?

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Speaker 3: Do I value this to get what I need to get?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 4: Same here, But I'm some people people come from different

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Speaker 4: background I can only that's what I can only empathize,

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Speaker 4: I can only put myself in that.

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Speaker 7: So he was feasting on the vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: I feel like people who are in that situation are

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Speaker 3: super vulnerable and probably don't know no other way out

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Speaker 3: and gotta do what they gotta do.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, I've definitely run out of routs with

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Speaker 4: Chicken because I didn't want to ask.

401
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Speaker 2: Well, but what about empathizing or your feeling about the victim?

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Speaker 7: I mean, you said you've been in that situation.

403
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Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, because probably because they look like me,

404
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Speaker 3: like you know what I'm saying, and I know how

405
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Speaker 3: it's like, I know how it feels to be broke.

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Speaker 3: I know how it feels to be faced with a

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Speaker 3: decision that feels like but some people don't have the

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Speaker 3: will power or some people don't have like yeah, to

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Speaker 3: be able to make those kind of decisions.

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Speaker 6: Also to like I said, I've seen so many different

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Speaker 6: situations and this is Byron speaking were and also on

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Speaker 6: the thriller that they're chasing because I like, I had

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Speaker 6: a friend where he was a privilege right, but I

414
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 6: realized he had a jones for stealing, like he would

415
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Speaker 6: take things. He got a thriller taking step out of

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Speaker 6: the store without paying for it.

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Speaker 5: And he had money.

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Speaker 6: We all have money, and like all you had to

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Speaker 6: tell them who that brought dis comfort to me. If

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Speaker 6: we're gonna be friends, like you walking out, I don't

421
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Speaker 6: know if somebody chasing after me because this is your thrill,

422
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Speaker 6: right and even knowing one of the victims who had

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Speaker 6: passed and just knowing his ambition when we would be

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Speaker 6: out on set, not knowing how like sometime, which is

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Speaker 6: why I'm also protective involved in spaces what the leaders teach,

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Speaker 6: because I do know how some of you are taught

427
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Speaker 6: to sell their bodies in certain spaces or certain mentors,

428
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Speaker 6: like this is kind of what you got to get

429
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Speaker 6: used to, right And no, it's you don't always have

430
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Speaker 6: to you do.

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Speaker 2: Have the people told you this is the people.

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Speaker 5: You'll be surprised.

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Speaker 6: This is why no, no, really speak to the horbles.

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Speaker 4: Go ahead, brother god oh oh doesn't really work like

435
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 4: a common thing, like it's still happening right now. When

436
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 4: I first came out here, it was like, oh, no,

437
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 4: you're selling some dick like you want to hear a cut?

438
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, ah, you like to smoke weed? Oh wow?

439
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 4: Who knew food costs money? You came out here on

440
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 4: a scholarship. But it's so like you're asking your mind

441
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 4: for everything. How manly is that? Like you know, you

442
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 4: knew you can make your own money.

443
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 7: This is it's easy. Just come hang out with me,

444
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 7: you know.

445
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 4: Okay, you end up in one hotel room, one stake,

446
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 4: then another state, another hotel room.

447
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 7: Okay, that was some quick money. That was easy.

448
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,479
Speaker 4: I didn't have to do nothing. I didn't have to

449
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 4: do too much of nothing. I didn't have to give

450
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 4: too much of myself. And then you leave pieces of

451
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 4: yourself in different area codes and realize your like shambles

452
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 4: are like literally a fraction of your former self.

453
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good time to play. That's clicked. Can

454
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 2: I tell you that one of the most surreal things

455
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 2: is to hear the lawyer for Ed Buck getting misty

456
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: eyed about gay black men. I talked to Query for

457
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 2: two hours in downtown in Hollywood. Aside from defending that Buck,

458
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 2: because that's your job. Yes, what do you say to

459
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: the young man who's moving to West Hollywood Jamel Moore

460
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: of today, the young person who's comes to Hollywood. What

461
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: advice do you give to that young person who's arriving today?

462
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 11: The la is a jungle. You gotta be careful. I

463
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 11: would just you know, hope that you don't get involved

464
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 11: in anything that involves you, you know, doing drugs, because

465
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 11: that's just a bad it's a cliche path.

466
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 5: In Hollywood.

467
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 11: It's an la cliche and it just leads.

468
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 7: To nothing good.

469
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 11: And you matter, you matter.

470
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 2: The vigor with which you defended mister buck. Do you

471
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: think that that's in the message to gay black men

472
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 2: that they matter?

473
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 5: I think that I.

474
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 12: In doing my job.

475
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 11: And this again is the this is where you compartmentalize

476
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 11: as a lawyer. This is what makes this is one

477
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 11: of the hard parts about being a lawyer, And what's

478
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 11: so unique about being a lawyer is you have to

479
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 11: compartmentalize because all I had to focus on defending my client.

480
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 11: I couldn't focus on the message I was sending to

481
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 11: young gay black men.

482
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 7: Well, when he calls a lay a jungle, is he right? Yeah?

483
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: Because there are so many different things that you can

484
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: get yourself into that can and come to a different outcome,

485
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 3: that can lead it to a different outcome.

486
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 5: Honestly, yeah, I went that.

487
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 6: I said that was beautiful language because I had not

488
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 6: envisioned it as a jungle, I would say more so

489
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 6: of a maze. But when he said a jungle, I

490
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 6: did see the marriage of a jungle and a maze,

491
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 6: to be honest.

492
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 5: So but yeah, he is right in that context for sure.

493
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 7: So if La is jungle, what lessons have you learned

494
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 7: from the jung? La is a jungle and he's a vulture.

495
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 4: He gnawled on the carcass of black gay men's plights

496
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 4: and then acted like it didn't matter. You used very

497
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 4: big words, and it was very beautiful to listen to

498
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 4: La as a jungle.

499
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 7: Okay, and you're defending a tiger.

500
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: This is Calie speaking a few things that I've learned

501
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 3: in La. Not everybody is your friend. You are who

502
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 3: you hang around, and it's super easy to get thrown

503
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 3: off track.

504
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 6: Yes, and with that's so funny you say that because

505
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 6: one of the lessons that I, Byron have learned is

506
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 6: that I remember when I first got here, I saw

507
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 6: a lot of friends get chased out of here. Actually,

508
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 6: but then the first couple of weeks I realized what

509
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 6: distinguished me from them my focus. So the focus and

510
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 6: your intention on why you're out here, making sure you

511
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 6: keep that at the forefront of everything right to me,

512
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 6: that's how you will navigate not only the jungle, but

513
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 6: your own personal definition and for fearing or what success

514
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 6: is and finding it out here and night.

515
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 4: That gentleman, is a pure example of everybody black and

516
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 4: your brother, everybody that you feel to share the same

517
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: values and ideals that you do just as not. Okay,

518
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: So that's just something to accept.

519
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 7: What about the police? What about about the police?

520
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 6: Now, let me Alan be speak. I have a lens

521
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 6: on this because.

522
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: This is this is funny to me. Yeah, so please

523
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: tell me about the police. So you have a specific ones, Let's.

524
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 5: Be clear and just.

525
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 6: I want only because this is distinguishment. I come from

526
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 6: Saint Louis, you know, I come from the Ferguson era

527
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 6: of Mike Brown, right, So coming from like a Saint

528
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 6: Louis where we are taught to not even fear the

529
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 6: police but actually stairway, I think that's a black thing

530
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 6: period to stay away and disconnect from the police. My

531
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 6: experiences in Los Angeles have been quite different. I like,

532
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 6: what I'm going to knock on this table, but like,

533
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 6: I haven't been pulled over. He like, no, it's it's

534
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 6: really been pleasant compared to where I come.

535
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 5: From if that makes us right?

536
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 6: Uh, still just knowing culturally, you know, you don't fuck

537
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 6: with the police.

538
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 5: Let's me think come home.

539
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 6: But coming from from I'm from my Anthony Hamilton voice.

540
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 6: It's been distinguished from Saint Louis and coming out here,

541
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 6: so well, go ahead.

542
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: What about is there a difference between say, how you

543
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: feel in West Hollywood or other places? You're you're you're laughing,

544
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: You're like, you have a differences.

545
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 4: Everybody's so nice and so nice. Oh my god, they

546
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 4: pull you over and they're so nice.

547
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: One of the moments during the podcast that I thought

548
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: was interesting, I interviewed the former mayor of West Hollywood

549
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 2: and we talked about the Sheriff's police. Were you satisfied

550
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: with the Sheriff's department when you were in the city.

551
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 13: I think that the Sheriff's department in many ways did

552
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 13: a great job and in many ways was very challenged.

553
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 13: To have a city of thirty six thousand people that

554
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 13: could on any given night quadruple just because of who

555
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 13: was coming in to go to the night life. That

556
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 13: makes your job and your responsibilities very difficult. It's not

557
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 13: like you're patrolling bedroom community of thirty six thousand people

558
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 13: that goes to sleep at ten o'clock at night. But

559
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 13: I will also say because of that, they had to

560
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 13: be prepared for a different kind of experience. And I

561
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 13: think there were ways that the department fell short in

562
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 13: terms of the expectations of the community as it related

563
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 13: especially to cultural competency.

564
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: And there's no like, oh, in order to come the

565
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: West out Like in my mind, there would be like, oh,

566
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: there is this sort of special training, or maybe I

567
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,239
Speaker 2: want to know this, or but there's none of that

568
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: in your shade.

569
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 13: You should head requirements. No, there there was discussion that

570
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 13: certain trainings happened, and I asked that question at a

571
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 13: public meeting, and I just asked someone from the station

572
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 13: who was a sergeant, what sort of training he had

573
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 13: had as it related to LGBTQ plus cultural competency. And

574
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 13: he said that he had been trained on the flags.

575
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 13: That was literally his answer.

576
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: Oh, trained on the.

577
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 13: Flag, literally the flags, that was his answer, and so

578
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 13: pride flags. He didn't even say Pride flags, he just

579
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 13: said the flags. So when that is an answer that

580
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 13: you get from a sheriff sergeant who is dedicated to

581
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 13: the West Hollywood station, it is troubling. To think that

582
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 13: not everyone at the station could receive the kind of

583
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 13: training one might expect in order to properly serve the

584
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 13: LGBTQ plus community and keep people safe.

585
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: Someone want to respond, Yeah, it's kit. It's quite startling

586
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: that a chief or a share sergeant sergeant is the

587
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: least knowledgeable about LGBTQ or the community that he's serving

588
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: or that they're serving.

589
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 7: But it goes to show you.

590
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 3: How much inequality that not only our community have the

591
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: LGBT community have, but the black LGBT community have as well.

592
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 6: And then this go to other concerns where I've been

593
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 6: blessed to have officers in my family and know about

594
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 6: different things that our people who speak to police reform. Right,

595
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 6: And that's the theory that most officers should also patrol

596
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 6: or work in their jurisdiction in which they live, just

597
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 6: so they're knowledgeable about.

598
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: The community in which they serve.

599
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 6: So when I heard those sentiments, I thought of that

600
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 6: and just saw how I see why that's such a theory,

601
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 6: how that could lead to success, because like he's saying,

602
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 6: how even she just said, mind you, we more than

603
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 6: fifty percent of our population is the LGBTQI plus like,

604
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 6: are you serious? So that that really struck that theory

605
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 6: to me.

606
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: Most importantly, one of the interesting things is it is

607
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: this like lack of understanding just in general from law

608
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: enforcement about queer folks. I mean, have you had running?

609
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: You're talking about being in Weho having run. But I'm

610
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: just I'm thinking, you know, being dressed a different way

611
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: or like.

612
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 7: That.

613
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: Like I'm trying to get the question about safety and

614
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: being out and being black and queer.

615
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 4: So I feel safer when I look more feminine.

616
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: Why is that?

617
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: Because I know that they're scared of being caught either

618
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 4: a racist or a homophobe. Yeah, they're so scared of

619
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 4: it to try to stay as far away from it

620
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 4: as possible. But if I'm just you know, normally, like

621
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 4: with Sweatson and T Shirt, there's a nine times out

622
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 4: of ten chance that something is gonna go down if

623
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 4: something in my area happens in our master description, they're

624
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: gonna stop me, just you know, because based off how

625
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 4: I look. But if I'm feminine, they're like, he didn't

626
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 4: rob that bank. You know, there's no way he broke

627
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 4: into that car in a ten inch hell.

628
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 6: And like I noticed to be true because a similar

629
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 6: experience back in Saint Louis. There was a robbery that

630
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 6: happened at a wing stop that we would frequent near

631
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 6: one of the major universities back home, and there was

632
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 6: an officer, a legitimate police officer. Because they were having

633
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 6: so many robberies on campus, I started to be a

634
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 6: rapport with so I went into the dialogue and totally

635
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 6: put me in the scenario. And of course, anyone who

636
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 6: knows me is that I'm usually nicely dress all. I

637
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 6: love a blouse and a blazer, and let's be clear,

638
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 6: even now I have a look at my chest opened.

639
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 5: All that cute, no shame.

640
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 6: But he told me that because you are black and

641
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 6: quit like how you look, you put an attention to

642
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 6: how you look. I would not say time because I

643
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 6: would not like, yeah, I would not profile you. But

644
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 6: if you walk in right now, you could have even

645
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 6: had the gun on you, right, he said no. But

646
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 6: you can see, like he told me, just because I

647
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 6: was black and gay, that he would not suspect me

648
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 6: to be a suspect.

649
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 5: So I'm okay. So the girls you sent to the advantage,

650
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 5: let's be clear.

651
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 4: So, because that's what the narrative is right now, it

652
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 4: is if you're well spoken, if you're femling in, if

653
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 4: you're safe, if you're if you're those things, if you're

654
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 4: to them, you're completely demasculated. But the feminine men are

655
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 4: the most like strong people I know, like they can

656
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 4: walk into any scenario and be utterly themselves and not

657
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 4: feel any type of way, right I care about Yeah,

658
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 4: the affairs of the world.

659
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 7: I feel like the police, they don't scare me.

660
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 4: Being a gay man walking into a cookout scared me

661
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: some time more than walking into straight like a straight set,

662
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 4: and I'm like dressed like I want to dress, and

663
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: I feel like, yeah, this is okay.

664
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, as someone who knows the victim, I won't be

665
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: able to put myself in the areas that this man

666
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: is like, or even put myself in a situation to

667
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 3: where we'll probably be at the same event or bar

668
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: or place.

669
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 5: You know, that proximity is like shock I did.

670
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think to me, that was also the

671
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 6: outrage that we had at that point, that not saying

672
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 6: that that first victim was forgivable, right, but to know

673
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 6: that within a two year period that there was another

674
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 6: victim and nothing still to be done, not to see

675
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 6: a pattern and then for him to roam amongst his neighborhood.

676
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 5: And let's be clear, no, he's seeking another victim.

677
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: One of the things that we suggested when we were

678
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: even doing this podcast that ed Buck, you're like at

679
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 2: Buck's not alone, Like this is just the type of

680
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 2: the that's you know, that's how we sold the That's

681
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: how we told people that is the tip of the

682
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 2: iceberg that this isn't. Yeah, you know, there's am I

683
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 2: right about that. There's so many bug let me keep

684
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: going gonna you're saying, no, there's just so many at Bucks.

685
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: There's so many at Bucks. There's so many groomers to

686
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 2: prepare you for ed Bucks. There's like systems in place,

687
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: and some of them are unbeknownst to the people that

688
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: are doing it, and some of them are very very intentional.

689
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: Like literally, if I dare you to put up a

690
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: grander profile that says twenty one with like a picture

691
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: of a guy sag in his pants or something, the

692
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: amount of people that will flood you with the party

693
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: emoji and like Roses saying that they'll give you money

694
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 2: and shit and Jen, I'm.

695
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 7: Jen this BBC. I want to suck that dick. I

696
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 7: got some drugs for you. I got some money.

697
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like there are a lot of ads

698
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: out here, but I feel like the drugs, the drugs

699
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 3: are going to get to the people before the ds

700
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: get to the people. So I feel like crystal meth

701
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 3: is like a silent pandemic that's going on in the

702
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 3: black queer community, especially ballroom. And I feel like with

703
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 3: people hooked on these drugs, first, they'll put themselves in

704
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: situations to be taken advantage of by people like ed.

705
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: If you're going to give somebody advice, who is you know,

706
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: coming from Saint Louis or Texas or Columbus, gay black

707
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: man getting on a plane heading to Los Angeles? What

708
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: advice would you give them?

709
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 5: Stay true? Stay true?

710
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 2: What does that mean you say? Stay true? Help me understand?

711
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 6: So that was gonna leave you to my next point

712
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 6: of your focus. Always remember your why? What? What was

713
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 6: that motivation that fire beneath the win, beneath the wings too,

714
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 6: that had you come here? And I realized always being

715
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 6: at the foundation of the basis of my why has

716
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 6: kept me also has helped me out to navigate the terrain,

717
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 6: but allow to be also towards standing like the blows

718
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 6: and bolts of life, because that's one thing when I

719
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 6: realized I fell in love with Los Angeles. To me,

720
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 6: even the struggle became so beautiful, to be honest, because

721
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 6: I knew I belong here. So I knew with that

722
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 6: having that sense of hope and foundation and knowing that

723
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 6: I belong here, and I knew it was always going

724
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 6: to work out, and it has. I'm six years in

725
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 6: and still believed that the best years of my life

726
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 6: for her to come. And as I tell people when

727
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 6: they move her, I always tell them, trust me, you

728
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 6: stick it out to the best years of your life.

729
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 4: What happened here right, Find your tribe, Find some people

730
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 4: that think more higher than you, some people that are elevated,

731
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 4: some people that want to be in positions that you

732
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 4: want to be in, or some people that.

733
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 7: Are in position that you want to be in, and

734
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 7: come on and do the work. It's time. I'm also

735
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 7: saying that to myself.

736
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 3: This is Cali speaking. I would say your faith will

737
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 3: get you very far. Sometimes you're going to be put

738
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 3: in situations to where you're not gonna see a way out,

739
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 3: or you're not going to have the solution or the answer.

740
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: But ultimately I feel like, if you stick to what

741
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: you know you set out to do, especially moving to LA,

742
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: then it to get you very far.

743
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna how do you avoid someone like that?

744
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 5: Buck?

745
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 6: Plainly, for me, I just don't date why. That's just

746
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 6: me prevention is better than cure. I'm just keeping a

747
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 6: hundred with the black ones. I just I don't date.

748
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 6: So Also, and this one thing I never got was

749
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 6: on set and another fellow gym and I shout up

750
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 6: to the geminis he was like his safety barriers five

751
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 6: above or five beneath. So I know so subconsciously, I

752
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 6: always look at that when I took this as age wise,

753
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 6: So five above and five unneath about a healthy medium

754
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 6: That's just my ed buck prevencing tactic.

755
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 4: Let's be clear, okay, Oh for me, I would how

756
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: you stay away from an air buck is understanding that

757
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 4: you're worth is much more than one hundred dollars for

758
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 4: a quick blow and go a lot of it. It

759
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 4: just goes down to survival. Understanding that tomorrow you will

760
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 4: be alive and there will be an opportunity for you.

761
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 4: Go ahead, work at Starbucks, work at McDonald's. For the

762
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 4: time being, clean toilets if you have to. There's always

763
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 4: something else, because you're worth so much more.

764
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 3: My advice to be to stay away from any kind

765
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 3: of air buoks, to try to refrain from doing hard

766
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 3: drugs or or substances that will take you out of

767
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: your right mind.

768
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 7: Or take you up out of here.

769
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, okay, Michael Jackson, somebody else that was taken

770
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 4: too quick from a substance abuse problem.

771
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 7: Propofol.

772
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 2: You know when you were talking about when you come,

773
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: when you come to La, that you didn't that there

774
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: was a whole array that you didn't know that there

775
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: was like a system set.

776
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 7: Up to prey on you. Yes, I didn't know.

777
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 4: How do you How do we stop that from happening

778
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 4: by stopping the cycle with me? If anybody else you know,

779
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: have the power to do it, that's on them. But

780
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 4: I know I do. So I can create safe spaces.

781
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 4: I can get on platforms like this and tell young

782
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 4: men that you have a choice and you're beautiful. I

783
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 4: can tell my elders in my community that you have

784
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 4: a choice and you are beautiful, and to respect the

785
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 4: beauty of the youth because you were once young and

786
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 4: I want you to empathize empathy goes a long way

787
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 4: with the older, older, younger in between. We shattered the

788
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 4: system by being different than yesterday. If we expect the

789
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 4: same outcome in the same space, that's insanity. We have

790
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 4: to move if we want something different to happen. So

791
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 4: I encourage everybody to shift the way that they think,

792
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 4: in the way that they approach people love a little

793
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 4: bit harder.

794
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 6: I'm a firm believer shot in the system by being

795
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 6: the biggest example, and historically those are the people that

796
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 6: we remember in history, vibrant examples, breaking down the Bible,

797
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 6: breaking down the artists some time, like different little things

798
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 6: were always different examples that people who shook the system.

799
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jesus was a system shatterer. Technically he was a

800
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 4: system shatterer anybody through time. So where do we go

801
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 4: from here? How do we shouter the system and thrive

802
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 4: in the new system that we create? Because if we

803
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 4: shattered this when we completely destroy it, so how do

804
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: we build?

805
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 7: What do we build? How do we build it?

806
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 4: That's the next questions I want to ask, not to

807
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 4: answer today, but that's the questions I'm asking myself leaving here,

808
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 4: What can I do and what is the system that

809
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 4: I want to look like, what can I do to

810
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 4: be the best.

811
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 7: Uh uh version of yourself?

812
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 10: Yeah?

813
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 4: How can I participate in this system and contribute to

814
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 4: it the best that I can?

815
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 7: That's the questions that ask myself on nine Business. I

816
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 7: call that an ending. I think it's an ending. Thank you.

817
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 7: I appreciate you all your voice. I know I said that.

818
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: Next, we wrap up this season with my conversation with

819
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 2: the founders of the Black and Missing Foundation. We talk

820
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 2: about why stories about black folks often get overlooked. This

821
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: is shattering the system. I'm Sinari Glinton. I wanted to

822
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: end these stories about the lies and deaths of Jamel

823
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: Moore and Timothy Dane with some thing that leads us

824
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: towards some solutions. You know, it took a lot of

825
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: effort to get the world to really pay attention to

826
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 2: these stories. But it's not an anomaly that stories about

827
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 2: crimes about black victims are often downplayed or the plight

828
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: of black people is just completely ignored. Natalie Wilson and

829
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: Dereka Wilson are the founders of the Black and Missing Foundation.

830
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: One is a lawyer and the other as a journalist,

831
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: and they came together to fight the apathy about black

832
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: people who go missing. So you know, if you can

833
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: walk me through the tragic event that you know, my

834
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,479
Speaker 2: twin brother who doesn't exist that was missing, right, break

835
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: down what the response would be to that hypothetical missing

836
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: person versus a white person when they go missing.

837
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 14: Well, first and foremost, I think it's so important for

838
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 14: your listeners to understand the process within the jurisdiction in

839
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 14: which you resign. There is no holy approach in the

840
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 14: missing person reporting structure. Every jurisdiction can operate in the

841
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 14: manner in which they choose. So, for example, some jurisdictions

842
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 14: require families to wait twenty four hours before following the

843
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 14: missing person's report, and we all know that the first

844
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 14: twenty four to forty eight hours are the most critical moments,

845
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 14: while other jurisdictions they allow those reports to be taken immediately.

846
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 14: Once that police report is taken, the next step is

847
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 14: for law enforcement to enter that case into NCIC, which

848
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 14: is the National Crime Information Center. That is how law

849
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 14: enforcement communicates across the country. So, for example, if you're

850
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 14: a twin brother went missing from California and someone comes

851
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 14: in contact with him, law enforcement comes in contact with him.

852
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 14: In Texas, or the vehicle that's associated with his disappearance

853
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 14: is in Texas. Once authorities run that tag, they would

854
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 14: know that your brother is missing from California. And that

855
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 14: is how law enforcement is to operate and putting this

856
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 14: information in. What we are seeing is that they are

857
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 14: using discretion in these cases. Sometimes they may put them in,

858
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 14: sometimes they may not. And when families go to law

859
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 14: enforcement and they get that missing person's case number, they

860
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 14: think that's the one and done. They're not aware that

861
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 14: the other process to this is entering it into NCIC,

862
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 14: creating a flyer to start circulating, a bolo be on

863
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,439
Speaker 14: the lookout, circulating within the department as well as within

864
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 14: the community, notifying the media that there is a missing

865
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 14: person within the jurisdiction.

866
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 9: Because awareness is key.

867
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 12: And we know this.

868
00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 10: There's a missing white woman syndrome that when Eifel pined.

869
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 10: So if you're blonde and perceived as beautiful with blue eyes,

870
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 10: you get that around o'clock media coverage. If you are

871
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 10: from an urban area, you know the media isn't picking

872
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 10: up the story or there's no interest in it. We

873
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 10: weren't surprised about the study, but we were grateful that

874
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 10: it was done. And it's on our website. So your listeners, can,

875
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 10: you know, take the quiz and see how much media

876
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 10: coverage they can garner if they disappeared.

877
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: The white girl missing syndrome. Hope me understand how that

878
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: idea plays into why you do your work.

879
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 10: Well again, you know, stemming back to the inspiration behind

880
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 10: the organization. Tamika Houston couldn't get that media coverage. Why

881
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 10: Natalie Holloway dominated the new cycle. As a matter of fact,

882
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 10: last week they were talking about Natalie Holloway, right, So

883
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 10: if you go to Google and just see how many impressions,

884
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 10: how many news story have been have been done on

885
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 10: Natalie Holloway, Chandra Levy, Gabby Patito, and the list goes

886
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 10: on and on. It shows the inherent biases when it

887
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 10: comes to coverage of missing black.

888
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 12: And brown women.

889
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 10: And we can all name these these ladies again, the

890
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 10: Natalie Holloways, the Chandra Levy, the Gabby Patito. But can

891
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 10: your listeners name a person of color that is missing

892
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 10: and just start with your community?

893
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 12: Can you name someone?

894
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 10: Can you name someone that on a national level that

895
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 10: has gotten that national coverage ever?

896
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: Like that's that's that's a really really interesting one. Ever,

897
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: like is that I don't know of a name of

898
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: a black girl whose name that has ever risen even

899
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: close to Natalie Holloway, who is uh missing on a

900
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 2: Caribbean island right, and it caused the firestorm? I mean,

901
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: are what are the what are the names that you know?

902
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 2: Why don't we do that now and list some of

903
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 2: the names that we should have known.

904
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 10: That you should know. Keisha Jacobs, Tiffany Foster. You should

905
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 10: know Arianna Fitz. She was two years old when she

906
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 10: went missing from San Francisco. Her mother was found buried

907
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 10: in a grave.

908
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 12: In a park.

909
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 9: You should know, Melsia Rudd and Casey Young.

910
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, there's so many you should know, so many names

911
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 10: that you should know, Shariah Williams, Janiah Walker.

912
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 9: Danielle Moss, Liam McDonald.

913
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 10: And to learn more, you can definitely go to our

914
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 10: website at BAMFI dot org and just start with who's

915
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 10: missing from your community and help find them.

916
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: I wonder if the direct link between the lack of

917
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: diversity and newsrooms and the alarm bell being raised about

918
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: black and brown people being missing. How does lack of

919
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: diversity in the journalism profession play into the lack of

920
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 2: attention to these kind of cases.

921
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 10: Well, that's one issue, you are right, lack of diversity.

922
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 10: The decision makers in the newsrooms are typically middle aged,

923
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 10: white men, So are they really telling the stories that

924
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 10: matter to the community that they serve. But we also

925
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 10: challenge newsrooms across the country to create a policy as

926
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 10: to how they handle coverage of cases of missing people.

927
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 10: So if you were to call a newsroom and another

928
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 10: family calls a newsroom, who decides who gets coverage and sadly,

929
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 10: there is no policy to make staff aware so that

930
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 10: they can prevent intentional or unintentional biases in the coverage

931
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 10: of these stories.

932
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 12: And also, you.

933
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 10: Know, raising the alarm about the images that are used

934
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 10: in news coverage when they're telling the stories. Are they

935
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 10: showing you know, a mug shot or a provocative picture

936
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 10: that has been you know, downloaded from the missing person's

937
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 10: personal social media platforms?

938
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 2: Or there are way morery about this, like can you

939
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 2: drill down on images and how we talk about these

940
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: victims a little more so.

941
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 10: The perception is many times, and we see this every

942
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 10: single day, that the person that has disappeared they have

943
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 10: gotten what they deserve. They come from marginalized communities, and

944
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 10: what we are trying to do is to change the

945
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 10: narrative that these are our missing mothers and fathers, sisters, brothers,

946
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 10: valuable members of our community. So what we have been

947
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 10: seeing the images that are being used for news coverage,

948
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 10: they are a continuing to instill that public perception and

949
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 10: those stereotypes that this person isn't worthy enough to be found.

950
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 10: And I'll give you an example. There was a young

951
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 10: lady missing out of South Carolina and we provided the

952
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 10: media outlet with pictures that the family gave.

953
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 12: They didn't use them.

954
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 10: They went to her social media platform and downloaded some

955
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 10: pictures you know, for her that she posted, and the

956
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 10: community was outraged because it was a distraction from finding

957
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 10: her and it gave off that stereotype that she was promiscuous,

958
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 10: which she wasn't and it had nothing to do with

959
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 10: her disappearance. And I'd also like to add, you're right,

960
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 10: sometimes what we do is very frustrating, right, but it's

961
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 10: also rewarding when we are able to find someone and

962
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 10: reunite them with their loved ones and we know.

963
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 12: That that family can sleep at night, you know.

964
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 10: And as we peel back to layers, we are realizing

965
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 10: that there's so many systemic issues in our communities that

966
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 10: need to be resolved, homelessness, jobs, you know, mental health,

967
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 10: and that's an issue.

968
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 12: That we need to talk about.

969
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: When you look at the homeless population, especially with young people,

970
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 2: or when you see people run away or those things,

971
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: I have to imagine that a large percentage of those

972
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: of the black and brown missing people are gay and lesbian.

973
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 2: Help me understand how being gay or queer rather feeds

974
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 2: into this problem we are seeing.

975
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 10: And we've had some cases of missing individuals from the

976
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 10: LGBTQ community, and it's something that we are taking a

977
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 10: closer look at to see how we can you know,

978
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 10: better support them and you know better provide them with

979
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 10: the resources that they need.

980
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 12: It's new to us. Our focus is.

981
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 10: On men, women, and children to holistically help bring awareness

982
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 10: to their disappearance and to find them. But we are

983
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 10: seeing more and more LGBTQ members disappearing, so we're taking

984
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 10: a look into that as well.

985
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 5: Well.

986
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 14: There's certainly going to increase thirty percent a missing person

987
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 14: in the United States or persons of color, and that

988
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 14: number has since increased to forty percent.

989
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 9: So the numbers are am army.

990
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: Now I'm a journalist. What can journalists do in their

991
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 2: newsrooms to make your job easier?

992
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 10: One, Please reach out to the pios, the public information

993
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 10: officers for these law enforcement agencies because they are low

994
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 10: for stories.

995
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 12: They want to tell the stories.

996
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 10: To be mindful of the images that are being used

997
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 10: when you're telling this story, and to create a policy

998
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 10: to even the plane field. When it comes to missing

999
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 10: people of color, don't just this miss you know the

1000
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 10: when you get the phone call and use your social

1001
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 10: media platforms. Yes, you may not be able to show

1002
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 10: it on the typical news cycle, but you can you know,

1003
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 10: your personal social media platform or the news station. So

1004
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 10: there's so much change or advocating for change in policies

1005
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 10: that journalists and newsrooms across the country can do.

1006
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 2: What about law enforcement? You know, if you can walk

1007
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,919
Speaker 2: into you know, La or Detroit or one of those

1008
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: cities and something or get them to change something, what

1009
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 2: would that be? What what would what would solutions look

1010
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: like in law enforcement? That's a better question.

1011
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 14: Well, dedicating and more resources to the missing person unit

1012
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 14: as a whole. When it comes to missing person it's

1013
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 14: not considered a priority, especially when it's adults, because adults

1014
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 14: can come and go as they please. So you know,

1015
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 14: when you're looking at law enforcement, their resources are dedicated

1016
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 14: to the homicide divisions, those high crime areas, but the

1017
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 14: stats don't lie. I mean, you know, with the number

1018
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 14: of people that are going this in every year, more

1019
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 14: agencies need to have more bodies in that division. And

1020
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 14: also seeing organizations such as the Black Livestic Foundation as

1021
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 14: an ally, you know, we're not trying to overstep our boundaries.

1022
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 9: We want to partner with law enforcement and we.

1023
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 14: Understand that there are limited resources right now. All these

1024
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 14: police departments they're suffer from staffing issues, but seeing us

1025
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 14: as a valuable partner where they can utilize our platform

1026
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 14: to upload missing individuals from their jurisdiction so we can

1027
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 14: help bring awareness and eventually help bring them home.

1028
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 9: So those are a few things. And then enhance training.

1029
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 14: You know, there needs to be that culture diversity, that

1030
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 14: sensitivity training with law enforcement. You know, again, as I

1031
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 14: mentioned that there's a shortage, a lot of police departments

1032
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 14: are recruiting, you know, across the country and a lot

1033
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 14: of people that are on the force now are policing

1034
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 14: a community that they're not from, and so that makes

1035
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 14: it very challenging when you're policing a community that you're

1036
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 14: not from to really understand that community. So we really

1037
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 14: need to get back to the basics, and we need

1038
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 14: to enhance the training and get rid of that classification

1039
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 14: run away. They're missing when it's a child and that

1040
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 14: child is missing, that child is endangered, and we know

1041
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 14: that every three children that run away are solicited for sex.

1042
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 14: And then lastly, the point that I love to make

1043
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 14: is review those policy and procedures and get rid of

1044
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 14: that twenty four hour waiting period.

1045
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 10: And can I just add one more thing. I want

1046
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 10: to tell journalists why they matter. Well, one, media coverage

1047
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 10: puts pressure on law enforcement to add resources to the case,

1048
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 10: and as Derek mentioned, law enforcement typically are not taking

1049
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 10: these cases seriously. But your coverage will also alert the

1050
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 10: wider community that someone is missing, and it can increase

1051
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 10: the chance of a recovery because we know that within

1052
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 10: the first twenty four to forty eight hours are the

1053
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 10: most critical times.

1054
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: That's Natalie and Dereka Wilson, co founders of the Black

1055
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 2: and Missing Foundation. You can find them at Black and Missinginc.

1056
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 2: Dot com. That's Black and Missing i NC dot com.

1057
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: We've covered a lot of territory of the course of

1058
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: this podcast, ed Buck is in prison, and that was

1059
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: a real victory. Ed Buck wasn't allowed to kill gay

1060
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: black men with impunity. What was true when ed Buck

1061
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: was on the streets is still true now. Sadly, it

1062
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 2: took a whole federal case to get ed Buck off

1063
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: the streets, and that's still infuriating.

1064
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 7: You know.

1065
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: I see a direct line between Letitia Nixon and Mamie Till,

1066
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 2: the mother of Emmettil, and the tremendous effort that Letitian

1067
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 2: Nixon made to honor her son is a part of

1068
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 2: a very long legacy. I sat with Letitian Nixon at

1069
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 2: a bar after sentencing, and when I asked her what

1070
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: made her fight, she said, Jamel was my baby, and

1071
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: she said she didn't care what the world thought of him.

1072
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 2: She had to fight for him. And if Jamel Moore's

1073
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: death filled me with rage, then that conversation with his

1074
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 2: mother has given me hope. While the death of Jamel

1075
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: Moore and Timothy Dean was senseless, and it fills me

1076
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 2: with anger, more anger than when we started. And actually,

1077
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 2: if you are less angry after listening to the series,

1078
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: then when we started, then we haven't done our jobs.

1079
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 2: While we haven't solved the problems that ed Buck exposed

1080
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: in the system, hopefully we expose the systems that allowed

1081
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: him to get away with it for so long. We

1082
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 2: sought to honor the memory of Jammel Moore and Timothy Dean,

1083
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: and I think of a quote from the Holocaust survivor

1084
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 2: Ellie Gizl for the dead and the living, we must

1085
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 2: bear witness. Not only are we responsible for the memories

1086
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 2: of the dead, we are responsible for what we do

1087
00:59:50,160 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 2: with those memories. Well, that's show. I'm grateful, especially to

1088
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 2: all the folks on this team, the individual names that

1089
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 2: I will read in the credits, this team that is

1090
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 2: given me so much space and grace to tell this

1091
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 2: story for them, I will be eternally grateful. Let us

1092
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 2: know what you think. Leave your thoughts about the series

1093
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 2: and the comments. Is there someone who's using the system

1094
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: to cover up their crimes in your area? What's the

1095
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: system you think needs to be shattered? This is Shattering

1096
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 2: the System, the true crime podcast that's about more than crime.

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Speaker 2: I'm Scenario Glinton, Thank you so very much. Shattering the

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Speaker 2: System is a production of Macro Studios and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host Sinari Glinton. Follow me at s O

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Speaker 2: n ari I one on Instagram. Our series executive producers

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Speaker 2: are Charles King, Asha corpus, Win Royal Reccio, Jonathan Hunger,

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Speaker 2: Lindsay Hoffman and Scenari Glinton.

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Speaker 5: That's Me.

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Speaker 2: Our show is co written and produced by Ralph Cooper

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Speaker 2: the Third. Erica Rodriguez is our associate producer. Dana Conway

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Speaker 2: is our archival producer. Chris Mann is our audio engineer.

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Speaker 2: Sound design and music provided by Chris Mann with pod Shaper.

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Speaker 2: Special thanks to Karen Griggsby, Bates Port, Robertson, Nigas and

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Speaker 2: Lisa Pollock.