Speaker 1: You are listening to The Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Speaker 1: Sports Radio hour one on this Wednesday. Welcome to the program.
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Speaker 1: Dan Patrick Show as thousands of you have been, and
Speaker 1: listen on our Fox Sports Radio lineup three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty two radio affiliates around the country. With the law
Speaker 1: in sports, the media is hitting us up with new
Speaker 1: list every day, and you know I love a good list.
Speaker 1: These are usually reserved for late July when everybody's on
Speaker 1: vacation and you're just trying to fill up some space.
Speaker 1: But with nothing going on on, everybody's ranking players, teams, uniforms,
Speaker 1: anything that can be ranked is being ranked. I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of the list because they're so subjective. Actually,
Speaker 1: they drive me crazy. No list has ever changed anybody's
Speaker 1: mind on anything. It just hasn't. You too often end
Speaker 1: up denigrating a great player's career unnecessarily because you'll say, well,
Speaker 1: such and such shouldn't be ranked that high, or he
Speaker 1: should be in there instead of that guy. ESPN's getting
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. They have their list of the
Speaker 1: seventy four greatest players in NBA history, this being the
Speaker 1: seventy fourth year the NBA. I'm not sure how they
Speaker 1: ranked the players. I don't know what the criteria was.
Speaker 1: How do you rank the Greek freak and Lebron against
Speaker 1: guys who have been retired for decades, the different eras,
Speaker 1: the different rules, the different styles. There's nothing going on now,
Speaker 1: I realize that. So I begrudgingly open the show with
Speaker 1: this list, and I am fortunate. I've said this before.
Speaker 1: Probably you're nauseous from hearing it so often. I got
Speaker 1: to see everybody play. I got to see everybody but
Speaker 1: Bill Russell. Everybody else I was able to see in person.
Speaker 1: Will Chamberlain saw him in person. Oscar Robertson saw him
Speaker 1: in person. And that's where it's difficult. I don't know.
Speaker 1: People will say, well, at Oscar Robertson, the average a
Speaker 1: triple double. That's all people know about Oscar Robertson. If
Speaker 1: he didn't average a triple double, people wouldn't mention him
Speaker 1: in the top ten. Now Oscar had the numbers. Oscar
Speaker 1: was a dominating force. People don't know anything other than
Speaker 1: how many people saw Oscar play with the Royals. Not many,
Speaker 1: because I went to the games and no one was there.
Speaker 1: I was there when they had Bob Kuzi. He goes
Speaker 1: to Milwaukee and he plays with lu Elsendor and you
Speaker 1: know lu all Sendoor Kareem was so dominant back then.
Speaker 1: They won the NBA title. That's the only title that
Speaker 1: Oscar has. But we look at Oscar and not to
Speaker 1: just single him out. It's just we're not quite sure
Speaker 1: what to make of these guys who played in a
Speaker 1: different time, a different era, different style. Will Chamberlain is
Speaker 1: the most dominating player of all time. Oh but he
Speaker 1: didn't win. If Will had six titles, would Will be
Speaker 1: the greatest player of all time? He led the league
Speaker 1: and assist, rebound, scoring, field goal percentage. Whatever you said,
Speaker 1: you know they should have said, will you can't win championships,
Speaker 1: then maybe he would have done it because individually he
Speaker 1: did everything. Oh you're just a scorer. He said, all right,
Speaker 1: I'll be a defensive player. I'm gonna lead the league
Speaker 1: and assists. When the Lakers were so great, when they
Speaker 1: won thirty three in a row, he was a defensive
Speaker 1: minded player and a rebounder. That's what he did. He
Speaker 1: wanted to prove I don't I can score fifty. I
Speaker 1: don't have to score fifty. Jerry West, who I dearly love,
Speaker 1: Jerry could play in today's game. So when you're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out and I know it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: for entertainment purposes, I unfortunately take it personally because I
Speaker 1: think when people vote on these, they go, yeah, Dirk Navitsky,
Speaker 1: Yeah he's better than Bob Pettitt. Okay, I don't even
Speaker 1: know how to argue that. I'll tell you who got
Speaker 1: short changed on this list is Isaiah Thomas. Like it's
Speaker 1: open season on Isaiah Thomas. You may not like him.
Speaker 1: Not an easy guy to like, And there's a lot
Speaker 1: that goes along with Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Thomas is one
Speaker 1: of the top twenty players of all time, all right,
Speaker 1: he just he is. You may not like it. You
Speaker 1: may say Steve Nash was better, or John Stockton he was.
Speaker 1: He wanted Indiana and he went in with the bad
Speaker 1: boys and they were a dominating force there. Isaiah Thomas
Speaker 1: is under I think he's like thirty first best player
Speaker 1: according to these rankings, thirty seconds something like that. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know the top ten's got shock at number ten,
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan eight, Larry Birds seven, Will Tis six, Magic
Speaker 1: Is five, Kareem three, Lebron two, and Michael is number
Speaker 1: one on the list. Right, you start ranking these players
Speaker 1: and it always gets back to that guy's not as
Speaker 1: good as that guy. We don't celebrate this. It's rare
Speaker 1: when we do. What you do is you eventually denigrated
Speaker 1: player and his career. Tim Duncan was a wonderful player.
Speaker 1: If Tim Duncan doesn't have is what five titles? Is
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan in there? The winning is the great elixir here,
Speaker 1: that's the great band aid man when you win. You know,
Speaker 1: Jerry West won one title. We don't give him credit
Speaker 1: for what nine appearances in the NBA finals. Oh I
Speaker 1: couldn't win the big one. Oh, mister Klutch couldn't win
Speaker 1: the big one. Okay, I mean, I can't argue with it.
Speaker 1: He didn't. He couldn't beat the Boston Celtics, all right,
Speaker 1: you could. No one else did. But you know we
Speaker 1: hold that against him. How many championships do you have?
Speaker 1: Because Bill Russell is the greatest team winner. He's not
Speaker 1: the greatest player. Bill Russell wasn't a great player. He
Speaker 1: was a great team player. He was wonderful defensive player,
Speaker 1: wonderful rebounder. He was athletic, and he understood the game
Speaker 1: and he did what they needed him to do. Budd
Speaker 1: he won a one to eleven tunnel. But if he
Speaker 1: won eleven and he's the greatest player of all time,
Speaker 1: isn't he? Michael won six? Yeah, but Michael was He
Speaker 1: did it with Flairy ZERI Joe. You know, Bill Russell
Speaker 1: played with the Hall of Famers in the Celtics state. Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I don't know what are the rules here. He won
Speaker 1: eleven titles, won an Olympic medal, he won in college,
Speaker 1: a national championship in San Francis. I don't know what
Speaker 1: makes you the greatest of all time? And who's voting
Speaker 1: on this? And did everybody that's where somebody should say,
Speaker 1: these are the people, these are the players that I saw.
Speaker 1: Let's all just just give me perspective on it. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I should be involved in these lists,
Speaker 1: but you should have guys like Bob Ryan or Jack McCollum,
Speaker 1: or guys who were around the league for a long
Speaker 1: time Peter Vessey. Those are the guys who saw everybody,
Speaker 1: and maybe you can make this. You have to make
Speaker 1: a generational to be fair to the player, because if
Speaker 1: I look at Wilton, Bill Russell, and I could put
Speaker 1: Walt Bellamy or whoever else big men you want to
Speaker 1: put in there, Bob Lanier, and then I'm going to
Speaker 1: move it into the new generation where it was Luel
Speaker 1: Sindoor when he came in. We had not seen anything
Speaker 1: like Louell Sindoor when he came in, and to me,
Speaker 1: he could play now. He could have played in the fifties.
Speaker 1: I mean, his game would have translated. But I just
Speaker 1: I want to know how many players you got to
Speaker 1: see to be fair And look, I think Bill Walton
Speaker 1: is overrated as an NBA player. He's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite people. He got injured. I mean, he he was
Speaker 1: wonderful that one year year and a half with Portland.
Speaker 1: I mean it was If Grant Hill doesn't get hurt,
Speaker 1: Grant Hill might be a top fifteen player. And you're
Speaker 1: trying to go Pete Maravich. You know I love Pete Merovitch.
Speaker 1: Pete wasn't a great NBA player. He was a wonderful
Speaker 1: scorer and he had flair. He didn't win anything. Walton
Speaker 1: won one with the Blazers and then was a sixth
Speaker 1: man with Birds team and won eighty six. Okay, I
Speaker 1: guess Kevin McHale great because he won championships. Has Robert
Speaker 1: Parish great because he won championships? Or is somebody not
Speaker 1: great because they didn't win championships? Drives me crazy, but hey,
Speaker 1: it's a slow time here, so allowed me to chew
Speaker 1: up ten minutes there. Yes, PAULI, I scrolled through the list,
Speaker 1: and when I on the list, if I have to
Speaker 1: stop and think about it, that's kind of when I
Speaker 1: know I've reacted to something. Jannis Detta Kumbo is the
Speaker 1: twenty seventh ranked NBA player of all time. He's had
Speaker 1: three great seasons, not not eight or nine or ten,
Speaker 1: but he is currently top three. Should not be in
Speaker 1: the top fifty. But he's ahead of guys like John
Speaker 1: Stockton who had fifteen All Star seasons, or Alan Irison
Speaker 1: or Isaiah Thomas and John Halcheck. There has to be
Speaker 1: something for a longevity. Is Stockton ahead of Isaiah Thomas? Yes?
Speaker 1: Is Steve Nash ahead of Isiah? They're thirty and thirty one.
Speaker 1: He is just ahead of Isaiah Toms. That's wrong. Steve
Speaker 1: Nash had a run though for about seven years where
Speaker 1: he was awesome, spectacular, absolutely love watching. Didn't win anything
Speaker 1: Isaiah least one I got Can I do I factor
Speaker 1: in winning with some guys and not winning with other guys.
Speaker 1: I don't understand that people don't like Isaiah. I get it.
Speaker 1: It hasn't helped with recency bias, with the you know,
Speaker 1: the Last Dance and Jordan's reaction to Isaiah Thomas and
Speaker 1: then everybody's coming out of the woodwork and saying they
Speaker 1: didn't like Isaiah Thomas. I get it. I'm not a
Speaker 1: fan of Isaiah Thomas's, but the basketball player, I can't
Speaker 1: argue that he was great. Steve Nash loved watching him.
Speaker 1: Steve Nash not a better basketball player than Isaiah Thomas.
Speaker 1: And this is where it gets back to we den
Speaker 1: a great players. Nah. Yes, here's a couple more. Bill
Speaker 1: Russell is considered the fourth best basketball player of all time.
Speaker 1: I knew this was going to happen, Seaton, I just barked.
Speaker 1: I did, and I think I think I growled. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I haven't deal with this all morning. I
Speaker 1: know I've been pacing back and forth before the show.
Speaker 1: Do you see this list, Paul, I'm like, I mean
Speaker 1: my old Bill, Okay. Bill Russell is the fourth NBA
Speaker 1: player of all time that's based off winning right, Yes, completely,
Speaker 1: not completely, but heavily. Russell didn't have great numbers. He
Speaker 1: was He was a decent scorer and a great rebounder
Speaker 1: and an unbelievable defensive presence. But do I consider him
Speaker 1: the top five? No? I don't. And he won. He
Speaker 1: was a winner. Why is it nobody else on the
Speaker 1: Celtics who won all those titles are included in you know,
Speaker 1: top ten players of all time? Top fifteen players of
Speaker 1: all time? I mean Casey Jones, Sam Jones, Sat Sanders
Speaker 1: have all check are they included in there? And the answers? No,
Speaker 1: Bill Russell was a wonderful player and the ultimate team
Speaker 1: player and the team winner. He's not a top five
Speaker 1: player of all time. Yeah, I have another one that
Speaker 1: think's gonna bother you. And this is a real specific
Speaker 1: in the number two spot all time is Lebron James.
Speaker 1: You know he's obviously top ten easily, but number three
Speaker 1: is a dual jabbar. Who would you prefer to have
Speaker 1: in their prime? You so would I rather have Lebron
Speaker 1: or Kareem in their prime? Is your first pick on
Speaker 1: your team to start your franchise? Because I know your answer, Well,
Speaker 1: I would take Kareem, Yes, I just I think Kareem
Speaker 1: if you saw him, there was no what am I doing?
Speaker 1: They got me? ESPN got me again. They had the
Speaker 1: stupid college basketball Poles was the title of it. It
Speaker 1: was not. I checked it. It It was not the stupid
Speaker 1: beat all right? Anybody else on that list that I
Speaker 1: need to be upset abount. I breezed through it because
Speaker 1: I swore I was not going to do it. Because
Speaker 1: PAULI goes a top seventy four list, I go, of
Speaker 1: what ESPN NBA player? I go, no, no, no, I can't.
Speaker 1: Now you should look at it. Why you may not
Speaker 1: like some things? Yes, seton this the unofficial name of
Speaker 1: this list was fifty Lakers and twenty four other guys.
Speaker 1: There's a few Lakers in there. There are few, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been surprised that other there are other franchises in
Speaker 1: the NBA. Kevin Durant is ahead of Jerry West. Does that, Bobby,
Speaker 1: I can look at your face. No, I let me
Speaker 1: wait to him. I'm okay with that. I think Durant
Speaker 1: is one of the great players of all time. And
Speaker 1: maybe let's see how he comes back from the injury.
Speaker 1: But he could be, you know, a top fifteen player
Speaker 1: of all time. I'm okay with that. And he's made
Speaker 1: himself better. He's not one dimensional. Who else is in there?
Speaker 1: Is Russell Westbrook ahead of Jerry West? Where's Chris Paul
Speaker 1: in there? He is? He's a little higher than I
Speaker 1: think he should have ranked NBA player of all time? Okay,
Speaker 1: never won anything once again, I don't know if that
Speaker 1: factors in. Does that mean anything? Because we love to
Speaker 1: lead with that man. He was a winner. Chris Paul
Speaker 1: is ahead of Rick Berry. Uh, Chris Paul is not
Speaker 1: a better player than Rick Berry. Rick Berry single handedly
Speaker 1: won an NBA title. Look at the of teams that
Speaker 1: have won a title. Look at the Golden State Warriors
Speaker 1: when Rick Berry won that title with him because they
Speaker 1: had Clifford Ray and Derek Dickeye. They had a couple
Speaker 1: of good guards. But that wasn't a great team at all.
Speaker 1: Al Addole's the head coach that sent five. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: I think they swept the bullets. Yeah, you're right, Rick Berry,
Speaker 1: Butch Beard, Clifford Ray, Jamal Wilkes. Silkwolkes was a good player.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. McLevin one day got a lot of attention.
Speaker 1: Doctor J was fifteen with people thought it was too high.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Obviously biased, but is that because the
Speaker 1: early Doctor J with a little better than late Doctor
Speaker 1: j J if you're factoring in his ABA career. Absolutely
Speaker 1: like Doctor J was we we had never seen Jordan.
Speaker 1: Some of us had seen Doctor Jay and watching him
Speaker 1: in a game against the Kentucky Colonels a BA and
Speaker 1: the Kentucky Colonels were great. That was a danissl led team.
Speaker 1: They had a wonderful team, Artist Gilmore, Louis Dampier and
Speaker 1: Doctor J was still He's like there was one guy
Speaker 1: who was playing a different game than everybody else, and
Speaker 1: that was Doc He wasn't as polished as today's stars are.
Speaker 1: You know, his mid range jumper and all those things,
Speaker 1: and but he he was a phenomenon. He was a force,
Speaker 1: A tortive force, is what they would say. Yes, setne'cunner,
Speaker 1: I was wondering where Zion was on the list checking
Speaker 1: could you check where the ball brothers are? Is Lamello
Speaker 1: on there yet? Lonzo is just for his Laker crier
Speaker 1: because he was a Laker. Yeah, I'll just say it.
Speaker 1: I think Zion at nineteen a little low, a little low.
Speaker 1: It's Trey Young on there. He's not Reggie millerty nine.
Speaker 1: Reggie was a great player. Reggie Miller's ahead of James Worthy.
Speaker 1: That's a chip, big game. James. Oh, I know, m man.
Speaker 1: I love James Worthy. James Worthy. If you look at
Speaker 1: his stats, he he wasn't the focal point. He you know,
Speaker 1: he shared the ball a lot. He was. He was
Speaker 1: consistent boy when he was out on the break, though,
Speaker 1: unstoppable out on the break. He was getting it and
Speaker 1: he weren't stopping him. Um yeah, I guess see. I
Speaker 1: don't want to get back to this where I start
Speaker 1: criticizing or saying this guy is better than this guy.
Speaker 1: I could paine me to say Bill Russell is not
Speaker 1: a He's not a top ten player. Now if you
Speaker 1: say his career and his accomplishments, okay, but if you said, hey,
Speaker 1: these are the players who are available for an open draft,
Speaker 1: Bill Russell was probably not going to be one of
Speaker 1: the guys you take, and he couldn't. In today's game,
Speaker 1: Bill Russell wouldn't be the same Now would he change?
Speaker 1: Would he evolved? Yes, he would. These are the Kareem
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to change. Kareem would be still unstoppable. He
Speaker 1: would even add, you know, a little bit more to
Speaker 1: his jumper, you know, stretch it out a little bit.
Speaker 1: He'd still be dominating. But you know, would will be
Speaker 1: the same player. He wouldn't, But he would evolve. He
Speaker 1: would be somebody different. He didn't have a good shot,
Speaker 1: but he was just seven feet two seventy five and
Speaker 1: he dominated people. The game was different back then. Where's
Speaker 1: Steph Curry on this list? He's way high top twenty
Speaker 1: checking all right. By the way, this program brought to
Speaker 1: you by Legal Zoom. They make it easy to set
Speaker 1: up the right estate plan about leaving your home, take
Speaker 1: care of your Family Today the Right Estate Plan at
Speaker 1: legal zoom dot com. Chris Mannox will join us. Coming up,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the NBA. I mean they're doing their best,
Speaker 1: they're chipping away at trying to come back. So Mannixell
Speaker 1: Joan is coming up in a little bit. Mike Rabel,
Speaker 1: the Tennessee Titans head coach, will join us as well. Yes, Paulie,
Speaker 1: if you guys don't know where would you guess that
Speaker 1: Steph Curry is right now on the top seventy four
Speaker 1: players of all time just throughout where you think he'd be?
Speaker 1: What number? What spot? I'm gonna say thirty one, Okay,
Speaker 1: I was gonna go in initially thought nineteen. I'll stay
Speaker 1: with nineteen. Steph Curry is thirteen. He's ahead of doctor Ja,
Speaker 1: He's aad A, Jerry West, Karl Malone, ahead of Durk Navitsky.
Speaker 1: But he won. See that's the key, Scottie Pippen if
Speaker 1: he if he doesn't win, then he's just a you
Speaker 1: know that he's fun to watch. Yes, he not only
Speaker 1: did he win though, but he's one of those few
Speaker 1: game changers. Yeah, the game was different before he entered
Speaker 1: the league, and it's it's different after you know, well,
Speaker 1: he has changed the game. I mean, how many guys
Speaker 1: in the history of the sport changed the game? But
Speaker 1: you can say that about Steph Kurry. History will be
Speaker 1: very kind to Steph Curry and they should, yes, McLeman.
Speaker 1: And I'm a little worried that you're getting too worked
Speaker 1: up over this topic, so I thought, maybe go in
Speaker 1: a different direction. Yesterday social media debate greatest American rock
Speaker 1: band nond So you don't get worked up over that.
Speaker 1: Just to calm you down, don't do this to me.
Speaker 1: I'm very fratial right now. The college basketball ranking was
Speaker 1: I it, hm, are you over the top? We have
Speaker 1: the twelve greatest sportscaster hair rankings. Well, no, I know
Speaker 1: him in that. That's where I forget who asked me that.
Speaker 1: It might have been Keith Oberman. He goes, hey, what
Speaker 1: do you think of the ESPN Sports Center anchor rankings?
Speaker 1: I go, I don't know what you're talking about. He
Speaker 1: goes and he was like, put question mark there, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't see
Speaker 1: the rankings for Sports Center anchors. Is it recently somebody said, oh,
Speaker 1: you lost to Scott Van Pelt. I go could good
Speaker 1: for Scott, I don't I don't care. Yeah, the older
Speaker 1: I get, the better I was. I'm fine. You know.
Speaker 1: Right now, there's gonna be some guy who's just like
Speaker 1: you know what I was. I was there to see
Speaker 1: both of them. I saw Dan, I saw Scott. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw over. I saw them all do live television.
Speaker 1: You weren't there, yep, And that's what you You need
Speaker 1: to have somebody that is, somebody from the big lead
Speaker 1: who's like, you know, twenty four, who's gonna say, you know,
Speaker 1: add Nan Verke guy, he's gonna get my vote there,
Speaker 1: Randolf Case, Scott, Randy Scott is gonna get with Hey,
Speaker 1: you know what I saw him. He turned to Fraser too.
Speaker 1: Game was different after ending. He was a game change,
Speaker 1: the honest of the Sports Center. Yeah, Sports Center was
Speaker 1: a whole lot different back then. Yeah, let's take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll come up with the point. Keep going, No, I
Speaker 1: gotta I'm gonna go I'm gonna hit the stop sign.
Speaker 1: I'm going to abide by it. And there's a stop sign,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm not gonna ease through the stop sign.
Speaker 1: Chris Mannox will join us, and then we'll we'll actually
Speaker 1: talk about something that is real, and that is the
Speaker 1: NBA players trying to get back and what is this timeframe?
Speaker 1: And does he think if they do play, will there
Speaker 1: be an asterisk attached to whoever wins the championship, especially
Speaker 1: if it's Lebron. Twenty three after the hour, This is
Speaker 1: The Dan Patrick Show. Thanks for listening to The Dan
Speaker 1: Patrick Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every
Speaker 1: weekday morning nine to noon Eastern or six to nine
Speaker 1: Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for
Speaker 1: The Dan Patrick Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
Speaker 1: or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
Speaker 1: by searching f s R. Chris Mannox will join us
Speaker 1: on loan from Sports Illustration. John and Louisiana joins us.
Speaker 1: Hey John, what's on your mind? Dan? How are you?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I got to tell you. I
Speaker 1: have been listening to sports talk radio long time. Everyone's
Speaker 1: falling off the wayside. You're the only one left that
Speaker 1: I listened to. I think you're the best. I love
Speaker 1: the Dan Ats. It's a show I look forward to
Speaker 1: every day. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not
Speaker 1: really that big on these lists. Thing they put out,
Speaker 1: But you just said something in the last segment that
Speaker 1: I just felt compelled to talk to. I grew up
Speaker 1: in Phoenix. I was fourteen years old when the Suns
Speaker 1: were born and an expansion team, and I've lived, as
Speaker 1: you well know, a pretty frustrating life as a lifelong
Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns fan. And when you said Isaiah should be
Speaker 1: ahead of Steve Nash simply because he hasn't won anything,
Speaker 1: I just took exception to that because I think you're
Speaker 1: a little too smart for that. Well, no, John, John,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I don't know what the christ area was.
Speaker 1: Is it winning? Is its statistics? Steve Nash was a
Speaker 1: wonderful player, but we seem to value winning on this list.
Speaker 1: But then Isaiah did win, But then you have John
Speaker 1: Stockton and Steve Nash ranked ahead of him. That's all.
Speaker 1: I don't know what we're basing this off of. If
Speaker 1: you said I could have Steve Nash and you have
Speaker 1: Isaiah or the other way around, that's fine, John Stockton, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just I think Isaiah is getting punished here because
Speaker 1: this is recency biased of what happened in the Last
Speaker 1: Dance the Jordan documentary. That's all, John but thank you
Speaker 1: for the kind words that you had to say. There, Oh,
Speaker 1: this list. I'm looking at the entire list here, greatest
Speaker 1: seventy four greatest players of all time by ESPN. What
Speaker 1: if I just said, this is regular season, so winning
Speaker 1: didn't matter, so it's playing ability, just playing ability? Does
Speaker 1: that change things? Because Bill Russell's not in the top five,
Speaker 1: not in the top ten, not in the top twenty,
Speaker 1: might not even be on the list. But with the championships,
Speaker 1: that changes the fact that that Russell Westbrook Junior the
Speaker 1: third is ranked higher than Rick Berry is embarrassing. It is.
Speaker 1: I mean, Rick Berry could score with anybody. He won
Speaker 1: a title with one of the worst teams that ever
Speaker 1: went to the finals in one of time. Now I'm
Speaker 1: getting fired up here. Let me bring in Chris Mannox.
Speaker 1: This will calm me down. Hey Manx, how are you?
Speaker 1: Hey Dan? Have you looked at this list? Do you
Speaker 1: care about this list? Not especially, but listening to what
Speaker 1: you're saying, I'm sure I'll disagree because I mean, look,
Speaker 1: no disrespect to the Russell's and you know, the Rick
Speaker 1: Barries and the guys that played in that era, and
Speaker 1: you could certainly argue that if they were. If they
Speaker 1: benefit from the training of today's game, they'd be different
Speaker 1: and more improved players. But you're telling me that Rick
Speaker 1: Barry had any shot at doing anything with Russell Westbrook, Like,
Speaker 1: no way, Like Russell Westbrook would eat him alive in
Speaker 1: any competition possible. Well, no, we're not playing one on
Speaker 1: one here. What are you talking about? If that was
Speaker 1: the I mean, Kareem would win this because he would
Speaker 1: back everybody down and score over them. Gay, it's it's
Speaker 1: not one on one. I mean, well i'd dispute that too.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, okay, like Kareem, there's there's ways of
Speaker 1: winning one on one. But that that's the age, okay.
Speaker 1: But like, do you remember what Russell Westbrook did that
Speaker 1: first MVP that MVP year, Like that team was bad
Speaker 1: and you know, Russell Westbrook went out and propelled them
Speaker 1: to like forty three, forty four wins after losing, you know,
Speaker 1: arguably the best player in the game, you know, certainly
Speaker 1: one of the top three in Kevin Durant. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty impressive team accomplishment. Dan like to have.
Speaker 1: Let me look at the Golden State Warriors when they
Speaker 1: won the NBA title. Chris if we're gonna make this
Speaker 1: about Rick Barry and Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook hasn't accomplished
Speaker 1: anything other than, ay average, a triple double. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: he did it a couple of times. Great. If that's
Speaker 1: the case, James Harden is one of the top fifteen players.
Speaker 1: I don't Durant belongs up there. Russell Westbrook is a phenomenon,
Speaker 1: but he's one of the great players of all time.
Speaker 1: That he's better than Rick Berry is silly. It is.
Speaker 1: It's silly, and you think it's like you've plopped Russell
Speaker 1: Westbrook onto those Rick Berry teams. They'd be worse. We're
Speaker 1: arguing one against one here. Is Russell Westbrook one of
Speaker 1: the greatest athletes to ever play the game? Yes he is,
Speaker 1: I'll give you that is he one of the greatest
Speaker 1: basketball players. I guess he's not better than Rick Berry.
Speaker 1: This doesn't have anything to do with Oh look at
Speaker 1: that physical specimen. I'm sure he's better than John Check,
Speaker 1: your beloved Boston Celtics there. Who would you rather have
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrooker, John have all Check? I mean, it just
Speaker 1: depends on what you're none. Their careers. It's hard their
Speaker 1: career here Okay, it's all, but my arguments is based
Speaker 1: on championships. And by the way, John havltcheck pretty good
Speaker 1: selection of teammates yet around him for most of his
Speaker 1: career like that, that was a great team that he
Speaker 1: was a part of. Russell Westbrook had James Harden and
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant and they didn't want to stay in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 1: I mean we we can split hairs on like the
Speaker 1: hard like hard, I mean you really want to go
Speaker 1: back to Harden like of course he at the time
Speaker 1: he wanted to say he wanted to get paid, and privately,
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City official will tell you that was the biggest
Speaker 1: mistake that they made, not maxing out to James Hardened
Speaker 1: and going into the luxury tax uh that year that
Speaker 1: offered him. That was a catastro that had nothing to do.
Speaker 1: All right, we're getting off track here because we hold
Speaker 1: hold on one thing, one thing on this really quick,
Speaker 1: like you know, a push minton. There was a time
Speaker 1: when averaging a triple double was like Joe Dimagio's hitting streak.
Speaker 1: Like there was a time when nobody was going to
Speaker 1: do what Oscar Robertson did. And then Russell Wester comes along,
Speaker 1: and does it three times like that. That's a That's
Speaker 1: an incredible accomplishment. He's the most ball dominant player of
Speaker 1: all time. Now him and him and Harden the most
Speaker 1: ball Are you trying to tell me if Magic wanted
Speaker 1: average a triple double, if Bird wanted average a triple double?
Speaker 1: Like today's player is about stats, it's about look at
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. They didn't Magic and Bird didn't give
Speaker 1: a damn. Are you trying to tell me Lebron is
Speaker 1: averaging a triple double? Do you really think Larry Bird went, Hey,
Speaker 1: how many assists do I need for a triple double?
Speaker 1: You don't think? But you don't think this year, Dan,
Speaker 1: it crossed Lebron's mind to average triple double. You don't
Speaker 1: think he's leading the league and assist as the game stopped,
Speaker 1: he's over ten per game. No, No, I think it's
Speaker 1: I think it's leading the league and assist. I think
Speaker 1: that was important for him, absolutely. But are you trying
Speaker 1: to tell me Lebron couldn't average a triple double every
Speaker 1: single year? He hasn't, I think, like you don't think
Speaker 1: he hasn't tried it, Like you don't think there's be's
Speaker 1: been in his mind. Ever, come on, let's get real, like,
Speaker 1: of course, like Lebron, Like Lebron's the guy that's been
Speaker 1: chafing at not winning MVPs over the year. I've talked
Speaker 1: to Laker teammates. I wrote a story about a month
Speaker 1: ago where I've asked them, like, does the MVP matter
Speaker 1: to Lebron and ever to a man, They all say
Speaker 1: it did so individual accomplishments and accolades, of course they
Speaker 1: matter to us. Well, yeah they do. Of course, you
Speaker 1: want to win an MVP. I can understand that at
Speaker 1: his age, Yes, absolutely, I understand that that's no big secret.
Speaker 1: I don't know why why am I yelling at you're
Speaker 1: gonna sit there though you're gonna sit there there, Dan
Speaker 1: and call Oh, look, I agree, Russell Westbrook is ball dominant,
Speaker 1: but like he did spend most of his career playing
Speaker 1: with Kevin Durant and that's another ball dominant player. So like,
Speaker 1: it's not like he had that one year or a
Speaker 1: couple of years where he had to do literally everything,
Speaker 1: but beyond that, he did have to share responsibility with
Speaker 1: top level players, including this password. Just look at what
Speaker 1: Rick Barry did when he won the title. Look at it.
Speaker 1: Look at his scoring days that he had when he
Speaker 1: was in the ABA and the NBA. He was one
Speaker 1: of the great passers of all time. Russell Westbrook can't
Speaker 1: pass when he an he's a ball dominant player. He's
Speaker 1: a I agree, one of the top three of all time.
Speaker 1: Look at the numbers ball dominant. You gotta do stuff
Speaker 1: with it. Where does where does Kobe rank on that
Speaker 1: list of ball dominant players? Where does Michael rank on
Speaker 1: that list of ball dominant players? How how how many years?
Speaker 1: Not like Russell west not not like Westbrook? But let's
Speaker 1: not pretend is this Grand Canyon size gap between these
Speaker 1: players as ball dominant You'd rather have Kobe over Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 1: You'd rather have Mike over Russell Westbrook. I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: ye I don't want this to be about Russell Westbrook,
Speaker 1: I said, But I'm just saying he won. He won, Okay,
Speaker 1: so it didn't Billington's got three championships. Great, Like I mean, really, really,
Speaker 1: that's your come back. You're better than that. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying I am. But like, I just can't say we
Speaker 1: can't see Barry's better than Russell Westbrook because he won,
Speaker 1: Because you haven't put Russell Westbrook on the teams that
Speaker 1: Rick Barry had. Rick Berry is a better, better player
Speaker 1: in my opinion, that's all. That's It's just my opinion.
Speaker 1: You see, I've seen the guys on the list all
Speaker 1: right name and I didn't see Mike and play, and
Speaker 1: I didn't see Bill Russell play. I've seen them all
Speaker 1: and I can make an educated assessment of what I
Speaker 1: see with their games. Rick Barry was a spectacular player.
Speaker 1: I'll leave it at that. And sorry if I hurt
Speaker 1: your feelings with Russell Westbrook Junior the third, who is
Speaker 1: you know, gonna win a title? I'm sure with the
Speaker 1: Rockets this year. By the way, does the team that
Speaker 1: wins the title this year get an asterisk by their name?
Speaker 1: Not if there are not at the playoff format stays
Speaker 1: the same um And that was a takeaway from the
Speaker 1: Friday call with the players that the NBA wanted to
Speaker 1: have the best of seven beginning with round one. I
Speaker 1: understand it'll be in a neutral location. I understand it'll
Speaker 1: be different, but if you maintain the integrity of the
Speaker 1: playoff length, No, there's no asters no more than there
Speaker 1: would be an asterisk in the ninety nine two thousand
Speaker 1: season or any of the workstopic seasons. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: the season has the asterisk. The team shouldn't be saddled
Speaker 1: with an asterisk. It's a level playing field for everybody here,
Speaker 1: like it or not. And I agree, Hey, we agreed
Speaker 1: on something there. Now the likelihood of basketball returning with
Speaker 1: what happened with the commissioner with this phone call? Was
Speaker 1: there an informal poll that was taken about coming back?
Speaker 1: So give us some details here on what's true and
Speaker 1: what's not. Yeah, I mean, well, look, everything's true that
Speaker 1: you mentioned. There have been player representatives that have been
Speaker 1: informally polling players via text message to ask them if
Speaker 1: they wanted to continue with the season. Now. I talked
Speaker 1: to several players about this who basically said, it's not
Speaker 1: as simple as yes or no. I mean, there's there's
Speaker 1: variables here, There's you know, what do you do with
Speaker 1: a positive test? What does the season look like? Where
Speaker 1: are we playing like? If you have in a fundamental way, Yes,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to finish the season like for no other reason.
Speaker 1: They want to get paid like and that's the biggest
Speaker 1: part of all this. But it was a strange pole
Speaker 1: to put out without having all the variables accounted for.
Speaker 1: I would say this The other interesting piece of news,
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's getting enough attention, is that
Speaker 1: the NBA in select cities is allowing for asymptomatic testing.
Speaker 1: And that to me is a significant moving of the
Speaker 1: goalposts on where the NBA initially, what they were telling
Speaker 1: me privately and other people privately, was where they thought
Speaker 1: they needed to be in order to start the season
Speaker 1: like they thought they initially, it was like, we have
Speaker 1: to have test thing. That's just why we availed asymptomatic
Speaker 1: testing for whoever wants to face. You could walk into
Speaker 1: a CBS and get tested symptomatic or not. We're clearly
Speaker 1: not there yet. But for the NBA to tell I
Speaker 1: think it's Orlando in the two LA teams. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's gonna be many more in the days and weeks
Speaker 1: to come. But for them to say asymptomatic testing is
Speaker 1: okay right now in this current climate, that tells me
Speaker 1: that they're changing that criteria for what it needs to
Speaker 1: be when they come back. I'm also wondering how far
Speaker 1: can they go into the calendar year here, Chris with
Speaker 1: you know, how long do they stretch it out before
Speaker 1: it affects next season. Oh, it's another good point, because
Speaker 1: that's another probably the one a takeaway I had in
Speaker 1: the last four or five days from these calls and
Speaker 1: information that's that's coming out. It's abundantly clear that the
Speaker 1: NBA and their owners don't give a damn but when
Speaker 1: they start next season. And if that's the case, you
Speaker 1: can keep kicking the can down the road. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was a report Morton and I haven't talked into
Speaker 1: Gray this morning about it yet about two to four
Speaker 1: weeks they'll make a decision. That's the ultimate artificial deadline.
Speaker 1: I mean, if in two to four weeks they're not
Speaker 1: ready to make a decision, if they don't care when
Speaker 1: next season starts, and for obvious reasons, crowds whatever, they
Speaker 1: really don't they can say, well, we're gonna push to
Speaker 1: mid July and even like August, Like I have some
Speaker 1: players that firmly believe that they'll go into meet to
Speaker 1: late October with the season if they have to to
Speaker 1: get it done. So with that knowledge in hand, that
Speaker 1: that's what makes me, you know, even stronger today than
Speaker 1: I did last week, that they'll find a way to
Speaker 1: finish the season. I didn't even get to the Jordan documentary,
Speaker 1: and we wasted all this time on the greatness of
Speaker 1: Rick Berry. Yeah, greatness of Russell Westbrook. You know what,
Speaker 1: I know you're not doing anything. You're quarantined, probably in Vermont.
Speaker 1: Why don't you do some research on rick Berry and
Speaker 1: then you come back with a book report and apologize.
Speaker 1: I apology. I apologized not being chronologically old enough to
Speaker 1: have seen Rick Valley play My bad. You know what,
Speaker 1: why don't you be older? Chris? It's good to talk
Speaker 1: to you. All right, thank you. That's Chris Mannix. We're untill,
Speaker 1: the strated senior writer. See, this is what happened. We
Speaker 1: woke them up for that. Oh no, he's he's woke now,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. We'd end up, you know, denigrating people.
Speaker 1: This is what happens with these lists. This guy is
Speaker 1: better than this. I know it did sound like to
Speaker 1: get off your long guy with Rick Berry. I just
Speaker 1: I saw Rick Berry play and that team won a title.
Speaker 1: I don't how much does that matter? He won a title? Yeah, Poe,
Speaker 1: is there a chance again? I had did not see
Speaker 1: rick Berry play, except for highlights that Rick Berry and
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook were similar players at their peak where they
Speaker 1: were doing it all themselves and they really didn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of help. And one got a title and
Speaker 1: one didn't. But otherwise they had similar careers a little bit.
Speaker 1: Russ can't can't shoot. He did score thirty one points
Speaker 1: a game though, Yeah, but he can't shoot. In today's NBA,
Speaker 1: you can shoot as much as you want. You have
Speaker 1: the ball the whole time. Look at Rick Berry was
Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful shooter, one of the great free throw
Speaker 1: shooters of all time, A great passer. There. Let me
Speaker 1: take a break here, I need a TiO. I needed
Speaker 1: time out here. We'll take a break. Play of the
Speaker 1: day's next. Thanks for listening to The Dan Patrick Show podcast.
Speaker 1: Be sure to catch us live every weekday morning nine
Speaker 1: until noon eastern six to nine Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,
Speaker 1: and you can find us on the iHeartRadio app at
Speaker 1: FSR or stream us live every day at YouTube dot
Speaker 1: com slash The Dan Patrick Show. I know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hear from people saying I can't believe what
Speaker 1: you said about such and such. I'm guilty of it.
Speaker 1: I am, I hate it, but I'm guilty of it,
Speaker 1: Gary and Las Vegas. Hey, Gary, what do you have
Speaker 1: for him today? I think I'm supposed to say five seven,
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty five, okay, anyway, or I could
Speaker 1: say six six two forty, but it is thirty five. Okay.
Speaker 1: Listen here man, I'm a long time listener. I really
Speaker 1: love your show. It helps get me through the mornings,
Speaker 1: especially these last couple of give. My brother, Bill Russell
Speaker 1: is not a top ten player. Let me just say this.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the videotape of Russell grabbing a
Speaker 1: rebound full speed, dribbling the ball up the court and
Speaker 1: literally leaping over a front court defender, leaping over him
Speaker 1: and dropping the ball in the basket. The dude won
Speaker 1: eleven championships on great teams. He won two championships in college.
Speaker 1: Red our back certainly understood he was the heart, soul,
Speaker 1: glue and great. Absolutely, but I'm I'm Gary, I under
Speaker 1: stand it. He was. You can say had the greatest career.
Speaker 1: He's not a top ten player. He's just not. And
Speaker 1: thank you for the phone call, thank you for your honesty.
Speaker 1: With your height and weight, Bill Russell was a limited
Speaker 1: offensive player. He was brilliant defensively. He understood the team
Speaker 1: concept as well as anybody, and that's why he's on
Speaker 1: these lists. He won every place he went. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a coincidence. He understood the game, he had a great coach,
Speaker 1: and he had great players around him too. At one point,
Speaker 1: I think he had eight Hall of Famers on the roster.
Speaker 1: Guys didn't even start became Hall of Famers. And look,
Speaker 1: you get into this and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm criticizing Bill Russell. Like who am I to criticize
Speaker 1: Bill Russell? Other than I'm just assessing the talents that
Speaker 1: he had. If I took away what you did in
Speaker 1: the postseason, made this just about the regular season, what
Speaker 1: would this list look like. I think the postseason Dominique
Speaker 1: Wilkins never won anything. If I make this the regular season,
Speaker 1: does that change anything? Is it just talent? You know?
Speaker 1: Chris Mannox was trying to argue Russell Westbrook's talent. He's
Speaker 1: probably one of the most top ten most athletic players
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Love watching him play. He's just not
Speaker 1: Rick Barry. All right. Mike Vrabel, Titan's head coach, will
Speaker 1: join us coming up. More phone calls on this as
Speaker 1: well one hour in the Books, two more to go.
Speaker 1: Dan Patrick's show