1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters, 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. LA is expansive. There's nearly ten million 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: people living here and it comes with a lot of noise, 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: but if you tune those sounds out and listen close, 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: you'll hear the real LA. What a Barjim, I'm going 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: to be your father? You're feeling? This a fiction podcast 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: mixtape about love. Listen to it on the iHeartRadio app, 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toxico respond 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: experiences Fico in First five California Pultuco Lilly said, well, 27 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, if you kill her, you're gonna have to 28 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: kill Chris and Frankie because they will know you get 29 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: it and they will come after you. Jake testified George 30 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: was in a firing position. Jake said he told him 31 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: to shoot, but he didn't. Jake takes the rifle from George, 32 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: and then when Chris shows up in the doorway, he 33 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: shoots him. What really stood out to me, it was 34 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: just the way he talked about killing people like it 35 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: was no big deal. This is the piked Masacre returned 36 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: to Pike County season four, episode eighteen. Jake Wagner on 37 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: the stand. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's 38 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: studio with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's important to 39 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the Fourth pleaded not guilty to 40 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: all charges. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, 41 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: also pleaded not guilty to all charges. At the beginning 42 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: of the eighth week of testimony, I traveled to Ohio 43 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: to be in the courtroom when jurors heard from the 44 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: man who seems to be at the center of this trial, 45 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. In April of twenty twenty one, on the 46 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: five year anniversary of the murders, Jake pled guilty to 47 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: eight counts of aggravated murder and agreed to testify against 48 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: his own family, including his older brother George. In exchange, 49 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: the prosecution removed the death penalty as a possible punishment 50 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: for all. Wagner's judge, Randy Deering, allowed Jick Wagner to 51 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: opt out from having his testimony recorded. That's why we 52 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: will not hear Jake Wagner's voice in this episode. Still, 53 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: his testimony is chilling, dramatic testimony in Pike County Today, 54 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: brother versus Brother Today, Jake Wagner took the stand against 55 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth. When Jake Wagner entered the courtroom, 56 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: both his hands and feet were shackled with long chain manacles. 57 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: He wore thick black glasses and a prison issued tan jumpsuit. 58 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: His hair was slicked back and in a ponytail. I 59 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: was not surprised to see him in jail clothes. You know, 60 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the reporters had been speculating that, oh, 61 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: maybe they'll put him in street clothes. And I just 62 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: thought to myself, I've never seen an inmate testify was 63 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: put in street clothes. I mean, the prosecution wanted these 64 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: people to be seen at least Jake and Angela as criminals. 65 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: Now twenty nine years old, Jake Wagner has been in 66 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: the Franklin County jail for nearly four years. The only 67 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: noticeable change in his appearance as he looked stronger. He 68 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: looked fitter than the thin, gangly man he was before 69 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: his arrest. He looks like a different person now you 70 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: see as a teenager, suddenly you got a con sitting 71 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: there at the big table there in a a courthouse. It's 72 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: an understatement to say Jake Wagner's testimony has been highly anticipated. Unsurprisingly, 73 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: the courtroom was packed. This is me speaking with Stephanie 74 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: from Ohio. Was anybody on the Wagner side that you 75 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: could identify, or was it still a total no show 76 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: for George. There wasn't a seat to be had completely filled, 77 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: including extra seats that were put into the aisles, so 78 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: that was just getting in. So it felt unlike any 79 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: other day in the trial so far. It was a 80 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: real buzz. There appeared to be no one there for 81 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: George Wagner. A lot of the people outside of the 82 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: media and victims family members were family members of the 83 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: attorneys on the prosecution and defense sides. That's interesting because 84 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: you never would really think that that's who would come, 85 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: but this is their big moment, so for family members 86 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: of the lawyer, that does make sense. After Jake took 87 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: the stand, he looked directly at his brother George from 88 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: across the room and smiled. For a brief moment. They 89 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: made eye contact the first time in years before George 90 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: looked away. Here's reporter a Jeanette Levy, who was in 91 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: the courtroom. I was sitting right behind George and George 92 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: made eye contact with him, but I don't think it 93 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: was for very long. Was pretty short lived, and Jake 94 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, he kept looking around a 95 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: little bit like he was very it was almost kind 96 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: of like this alert look. He kept turning his head, 97 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: looking back and forth, and you know, then things started. 98 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: The questioning started. Prosecutor Angiekaneppa started by asking Jake if 99 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: it was difficult to testify against his own family. He 100 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: said it was very difficult. When he was asked, would 101 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: you love nothing more for your brother, your mother, and 102 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: your father to be able to go home? And he 103 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: said yes. The only other emotion Jake appeared to show 104 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: that morning was when he mouthed quote, I am sorry, 105 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: in the direction of the Roden family sitting in the courtroom. 106 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: Then he calmly and with little emotion, walked Jers through 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: the killings. During more than six hours of detailed testimony, 108 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner explained why he wanted to kill Hannah Rodin, 109 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: the mother of his child. With Jake Wagner, what's fascinating 110 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: about him is that he's kind of the doorway into 111 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: what can be described only as a horror show. It's 112 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: not just the night of the home songs, it's everything 113 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: waiting up to it's the life but these people led 114 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: In the year's proceeding, Jake Wagner detailed how his family's 115 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: criminal activity began long before they were arrested for the Roden, 116 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: Manly and Gilly murders. Prosecutor and JIW. Kaneppa asked Jake 117 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: Wagner about the various homes and vehicles his family owned. 118 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: We found out through Jake Wagner's testimony today that he, 119 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: his brother, and his father would commit crimes together, including 120 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: multiple arsons to collect insurance money and stealing high priced 121 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: item from businesses. Jake admitted that his parents set fire 122 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: to their own home on Bethelhill Road to collect the 123 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: insurance benefits. He also testified that the Wagner's torched multiple 124 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: vehicles for the same reason. Jake said they would steal 125 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: everything from fuel, to building materials to livestock, also that 126 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: he learned to pick a lock at a very young age. 127 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: Here again is Law on Crime reporter and Gjeanette Levy. 128 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: She's followed by forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. They were 129 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: taught these things so that they could get away with crimes, 130 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: and not necessarily so they could be like good human beings. 131 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: I mean, they were raised to be criminals. It's quite 132 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: sad when you listen to them talk about how their 133 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: dad would sit them down with like a lock pick 134 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: set when they were seven, nine years old something like that, 135 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: and teach them how to pick locks, and weird games 136 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: about oh, if you were out and about and you 137 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: spot a cop, you get a dollar. When you hear 138 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: about the way that Jake grew up, where he was 139 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: essentially discipled into a life of crime, Billy described it 140 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: as he was teaching his boy survival skills, you know, 141 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: how to essentially steal a car or hot wire car 142 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: in case he ever got quote unquote kidnapped. And I'm thinking, 143 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if any parent out there 144 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: that sits around and thinks, well, let me tell my 145 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: child how to steal a car in case they ever 146 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: get kidnapped. I wonder. I wonder where all changes in 147 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: tire rotations came in, you know, did you at least 148 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: talk about that first, you know, And he's saying this, 149 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: he's saving this from the stand, and you're really getting 150 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: a peek behind the curtain at this life that they led. 151 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: Jake told the courtroom his relationship with Hannah ma Rodin 152 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: began when she was just thirteen years old. He said 153 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: he met Hannah at the Pike County Fair, where she 154 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: was showing off her p rabbits. Despite being four years 155 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: older than Hannah, Jake asked her parents, Dana and Chris Rodin, 156 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: if he could date her. At times their relationship was violent. 157 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa asked Jake if he ever choked his 158 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: young girlfriend, as Hannah May had once claimed, and he said, 159 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: I never choked her, and he was very like adamant 160 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: about it, and he said, she was having a fit, 161 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: and you know, I held her up against the wall 162 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: and I put my arm on her collar bone, but 163 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: I didn't choke her. I just held her there until 164 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: she calmed down. And after he gave that answer, he 165 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of, like Angie Kaneppa kind of made a sighing noise, 166 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: but it was just like he was talking about this like, oh, 167 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: I didn't choke her. I was just you know, holding 168 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: her there. It was like this minimization or justification or 169 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: rationalization for basically holding your ex girlfriend against a wall 170 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: because she was upset about something. And you know he's 171 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: claiming he didn't choke her. Well, Hannah May saying he 172 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: choked her like that his arm was on her throat. 173 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: So some of these things were pretty strange to me, 174 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: the way he would describe them. By age fifteen, Hannahme 175 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: Rodent was pregnant and gave birth to her daughter she 176 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: shared with Jake Wagner. Her tumultuous relationship with Jake ended 177 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: in February of twenty fifteen, a little more than a 178 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: year before the murders. Jake Wagner described his family's motive 179 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: and one of the worst massacres in Ohio's history that 180 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: led to the death of eight members of the Rodent family. 181 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: After their relationship broke up, Jake testified that he and 182 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: his mother, Angela began to have concerns about the safety 183 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: of his daughter, who was living with the Rodents. This 184 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: was true in particular after Hannah May started dating Corey Holdron, 185 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: who Jake believed was dealing drugs. Jake said he was 186 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: concerned his daughter wouldn't be safe living with the Rodents, 187 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: even going as far as saying he was concerned would 188 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: be molested. Since he said it happened in both his 189 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: family and Hannah's family, Jake testified that his mother, Angela Wagner, 190 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: was monitoring Hannah May's private Facebook conversations. Jake's concern for 191 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: his daughter only grew when he became aware of an 192 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: online conversation where Hannah said the only way she would 193 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: give up custody of their daughter is if the Wagner's 194 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: killed her First. Wagner said that his father, Billy Wagner, 195 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: first mentioned a murder plot, but he would not let 196 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: it happen. Jake testified he told Hannah he was concerned 197 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: that their daughter could be molested, and he claims that 198 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: Hannah was dismissive, saying, quote, if that happens, we'll just 199 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: have to deal with it. That alleged response, Jake Wagner 200 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: told the court was the tipping point. Jake Wagner said, 201 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: by the winter of twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, he 202 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: was concerned that his daughter with Hannah Rodin might be molested, 203 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: so he decided his only choice to protect his daughter 204 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: was actually to kill Hannah. The prosecution says basically that 205 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: that was made up, this fear that the little girl 206 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: would be molested. The prosecution basically says that was something 207 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: they kind of whipped up in their heads to justify 208 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: what they wanted to do. And we get earlier in 209 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: the trial of seeing text messages or Facebook messages where 210 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: Hanname and Jake were talking about their child, and it 211 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: was just amazing to me that in some points he 212 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: would say things like I'll take her even if I 213 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: have to do it by force, just some really eerie foreshadowing. 214 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: So it just seemed to me that they for whatever reason, 215 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: and everybody wants their children to be with them, but 216 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: this seems to be some type of demand, like, no, 217 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: this child is going to be with me. Once he 218 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: made up as mine that Hannah may had to be killed, 219 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: Jake testified that the Wagner family began to plan and plot. 220 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: His first idea was to frame Hannah's boyfriend, Corey Holdron. 221 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with 222 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: Local twelve. He's followed by Long Crimes and Jeanette Levy. 223 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: Jake was convinced that something needed to be done, that 224 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: they were going to kill Hannah and Corey and make 225 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: it look like a murder suicide, and Billy said, no, 226 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: you can't do that either, because they'll figure out it 227 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: was awesome, they'll come after us. I don't want somebody 228 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: up there on the hill with a sniper rifle killing 229 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: us Billy said, well, you know, if you kill her, 230 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to kill Chris and Frankie because they 231 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: will know who you did it and they will come 232 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: after you. So it was just this insane like, oh yeah, 233 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: I mean you're gonna kill well, we're gonna kill her. 234 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: We got to kill everybody else too. We're going to 235 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 236 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 237 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 238 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 239 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 240 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 241 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: He really wasn't, he shouted into the point she went unconscious. 242 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 243 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 244 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 245 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 246 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 247 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 248 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 249 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 250 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or 251 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. They say history is written 252 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: by the victors, but you know what they've left out 253 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: a hell of a lot of juicy stuff. Date Abe 254 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: Lincoln's assassination. Did you know a young couple was sitting 255 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: right next to him when he was shot? It haunted 256 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: the husband so much he later murdered his wife. Ah, 257 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: we all know who invented that, right, and we'll think again. 258 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: Truth is Alexander Graham. Bell stole the idea for the 259 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: telephone and then claimed it as his own. For every 260 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: pivotal moment in history, there's always a backstory, and it's 261 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: usually way more interesting than the big story. From mysterious 262 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: murders to the baffling sleep schedules of yesteryear to the 263 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: fascinating lives of those just outside the limelight. Where going 264 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: to uncover the forgotten pieces of history you didn't know 265 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: you need it to know. Listen to the Backstory Rate 266 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: with Me Patty Steele twice a week on the iHeartRadio app, 267 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, 268 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell here, host of Revisionous History, a show about 269 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere 270 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: else like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the 271 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw 272 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: in a few extra zeros or witness me after years 273 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: of fancy public speaking, learning that I kind of have 274 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: to start over. The tone that you had throughout the 275 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: debate was very similar to some of the students that 276 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: I do work with, and that's what I teach them 277 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: not to do. We're making more revisionous history for you 278 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: this year than ever from places all across this great 279 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: country emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns and shooting righteous 280 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: and you want to put your thumb up like the 281 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: US Are you gonna pull the trigger with this finger? Here? Okay, 282 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: into revisionist history on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts 283 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm your host, Billy Man, 284 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: and this is okay. Let's try again, getting closer, guys. 285 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: This is my podcast. Yeah, I've set up. I've been 286 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: a Grammy nominated record producer and entrepreneur for over thirty years, 287 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: and that has put me in the room with some 288 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: of the most successful individuals in the world. Kelly Rowland, 289 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: Jill Cartman, Rinale Scoldsberry, Allie and agent Miss Gillies in here. 290 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: You want somebody who's a you'll come to the right place. 291 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: What I wanted to do was have honest conversations with 292 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: them about their failures. I wasn't just changing jobs. My 293 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: life was over. I was so close to getting fired. 294 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: I was failing so bad, it said Kelly Rowland is 295 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: no longer a viable artist. That really did a number 296 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: on me. He said, you're boring, So get that hell 297 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: out of my club. Even the most successful people deal 298 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: with feelings of failure. But what they do is they 299 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: embrace their up and they learn from it. Listen to Yeah, 300 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: I've that up on the radio app, Apple podcast or 301 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, Jake said. The Wagner spent 302 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: three months preparing, buying everything from ammunition to shoes from 303 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: Walmart to a device to jam phone calls. Jake even 304 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: order to Captain Americo Winter Soldier mask, specifically for his 305 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: brother George to wear. Jake Wagner said that his brother George, 306 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: who's on trial, was with him when he bought a 307 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: pickup truck and a false truck bed cover for those killings. 308 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: On the afternoon of April twenty first, Billy Wagner told 309 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: his sons this would be the night. Four days earlier, 310 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin had given birth to her second child, so 311 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: they knew she would be home. Billy Wagner also believed 312 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: the cloudy weather would prevent surveillance satellites from tracking their movements. 313 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: Wager said he dyed his hair a dark brown like 314 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: a character during the movie Boondocks. Saints. Wagner said, before 315 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: heading out, he watched a clip of the movie to 316 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: quote psyche myself into what I was about to do next. 317 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner described how he walked barefoot to the truck 318 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: to avoid tracking any dirt from his home. Here again, 319 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, we had longed to hear 320 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: about what happened that night, what went into the planning. 321 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: You know, I was particularly interested in the care that 322 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: Jake talked about with walking barefoot when he went back 323 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: to the vehicle. He wanted to prevent any kind of 324 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: prints being left behind. He had enough sense about that, 325 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: and he even knew about soil types, which is fascinating 326 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: me because you know, there's an entire discipline. He's not 327 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: a dummy. He was aware of that, he had a 328 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: sensitivity to it. I think it's another kind of point 329 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: along the continuum that goes to kill, because that's a 330 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: premeditative factor. Then Jake described how they went from house 331 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: to house killing eight people. Jake described how his father, Billy, 332 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: as well as George all took part in these murders 333 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: on that night, and he went into detail, describing that 334 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: they modified the bed of their truck in order to 335 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: hide George and himself in the back while his father 336 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: drove them to the Rodents trailers. Once at the Roden's 337 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: property on Union Hill Road, Billy Wagner lured Chris Roden outside. 338 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: Jake said the plan was to shoot Chris Senior as 339 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: he and Billy walked back towards the Roden's marijuana grow site, 340 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: but the shot never came. Prosecutors were asking if George 341 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: was going to be involved in the killings. Jake said yes. 342 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: Jake testify the George was actually supposed to kill Chris 343 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: Roden Senior. Jake testified George was in a firing position. 344 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: Jake said he told him to shoot, but he didn't. 345 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: After a few minutes outside, Chris Senior and Billy Wagner 346 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: went back into the trailer where Chris's cousin, Gary Roden was. 347 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: After a few minutes, Billy was able to convince Chris 348 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: to come to the door one more time, and the 349 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: killing spree began again. Investigative reporters James Pilcher and an 350 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: Seinette Levy Jake takes the rifle from George and then 351 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: when Chris shows up in the doorway, he shoots him 352 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: with the s cast and he says he missed or 353 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: couldn't get a shot. He missed the first shot that 354 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: went above him, and then he'd lowered it, closed his 355 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: eyes and just pulled off a bunch of shots. And 356 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: that's later corroborated by the evidence where you see all 357 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: of these other bullet holes all around the doorframe where 358 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: he missed, but then obviously on the line hit Chris 359 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: in the shoulder, in the belly, in the arm. I'll 360 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: never forget seeing that autopsy photo of the arm. What 361 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: really stood out to me it was just the way 362 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: he talked about killing people like it was no big deal. 363 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: You would think after you maybe fired the first shot 364 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: at somebody's head, you might flinch, but it doesn't sound 365 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: like there was any flinching on Jake's part. Inside, Billy 366 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: Wagner killed Gary Rodin and fired several more shots into 367 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: Chris Senior's body. Jake Wagner said his father came running 368 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: out of the house in a quote nervous breakdown. Jake 369 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: said that Billy came out and was freaking out, and 370 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: he was like, you can't freak out now, it's too late. 371 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: There's no turning back. Jake went through Chris Roden's Senior's 372 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: pockets and grabbed the keys to the marijuana shed so 373 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: he could remove the hard drive from the security system. 374 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: When Jake returned to the trailer, he said Chris and 375 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: Gary Roden's bodies have been moved into the back bedroom. 376 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: Jake testified he threw a blanket on top of them, 377 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: but admitted to the jury that he didn't know why. 378 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: Throughout his testimony, Jake appeared calm and responsive, and several 379 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: times throughout it he would even look at his brother George. However, 380 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: I can say that George would avert his gaze multiple 381 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: times and appeared to not even want to look at 382 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: his brother. Next, the Wagners went to Frankie Roden's home. 383 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: Jake said after he crawled through a window, he let 384 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: his brother and father in through the front door. Frankie 385 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: Roden's three year old was lying on the couch. Jake 386 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: said he walked past the sleeping child to the back 387 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: bedroom and shot Frankie Rodin in his head as he slept. 388 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: He further testified that Frankie's fiance, Hannah Hazel Gilly, began 389 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: to wake and Jake said he shot her too. Then, 390 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: for no explained reason, Billie Wagner shot both Frankie and 391 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel Gilly in the head as well. Their six 392 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: month old son was sleeping between them. It was quite 393 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: chilling in a way, and I feel like that word 394 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: is sometimes overused, but just the matter of fact way 395 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: in which he described shooting people, it was just very nonchalant, 396 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: according to Jake. Then he his brother, George, and father 397 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner went to Dana Roden's home. She had just 398 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: arrived home from work. The door was unlocked, and Jake 399 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: said he just walked in. He was surprised to see 400 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: Dana awake in her bed. Here again, investigative reporter Anjeanette Levy. 401 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: He's literally standing in the hallway, and he said he 402 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: can see inside Dana's bedroom from where he was standing, 403 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: and then he could also turn his head and see 404 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: inside Hannah May's bedroom. He could see that Dana was 405 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: on her cell phone. He could see the light from 406 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: her cell phone shining on her face. And she made it. 407 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: She looked at him and made a gasp, and he 408 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: said he took a step and he shot her like 409 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: I think twice, and then he took and then he pivoted. 410 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: He said he was at a pivot point. He moved 411 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: into Hannah May's bedroom. She made a noise, she saw him, 412 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: and he shot her in the head. And then he 413 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: went back and he shot Dana again. There was no 414 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: hesitation on his part. It was just really disturbing. Before leaving, 415 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: Jake said he realized Hannah's forty old newborn was in 416 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: the room and was concerned she might starve. He said, 417 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, I know it doesn't really makes sense, but 418 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: I didn't want to starve. I thought that if you know, 419 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: it took too long for them to find the bodies, 420 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: he might starve. So I moved Hannah so she could breastfeed. 421 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a newborn baby. Newborn babies are helpless 422 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: as can be. And just that weird thought that you 423 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: thought a four or five day old baby is going 424 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: to nurse off her dead mother. It's just so crazy. 425 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner then walked into Chris Roden Junior's bedroom and 426 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: shot him point blank. Jake said then that he, his 427 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: brother George, and father Billy drove to Kenneth Roden's home 428 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: where his father Billy killed him. He was the final victim, 429 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: and he was murdered with one gunshot. According to Jake's testimony, 430 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: the Wagner's collected shell casings, cell phones and returned to 431 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: their home on Peterson Road. Here's Jeff speaking with attorney 432 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: and legal analyst Mike Allen on the impact of Jake 433 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: Wagner's chilling testimony. I'm just curious, like what your take 434 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: on those impactful moments are and how they kind of 435 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: changed the course of this trial moving forward. His testimony 436 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: appeared credible to me. It didn't sound like he was 437 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: puffing it up or exaggerating it to a great degree. 438 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: And I just think he was believable. And do you 439 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: think that level of gory detail like Hannah Rodan's last moments. 440 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: Does that move the jury in a way that none 441 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: of the other stuff has probably up until this moment. Absolutely, absolutely, 442 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure those jurors were riveted hearing that testimony, because, 443 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's the guts of the whole thing. Again, 444 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: you know, that's why everyone is there, the judge, the jurors, 445 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the defense lawyer is because of what he did, 446 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: what Jake did at that time, and it's just a real, 447 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: real important part of the trial. In the aftermath of 448 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner's first day of testimony, the media pool filed 449 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: with Judge Randy Deering to allow cameras in the courtroom 450 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: for the rest of Jake's testimony. The media argued that 451 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: the public had a right to see and hear all 452 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: of the testimony in the most expensive murder investigation in 453 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: their state's history. Under Ohio law, witnesses can object to 454 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: being filmed or recorded. In early October, an Ohio Court 455 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: of Appeal sided with the media outlets who challenged the law, 456 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: striking down parts of it, but Judge Deering continued to 457 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: allow witnesses to opt out, as is his Right after 458 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner's first day of testimony, a coalition of media 459 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: groups hired a first Amendment rights lawyer to visit the issue. 460 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: A hearing was scheduled for the next day. Here's James Pilcher. 461 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: Another eventful day here in Waverley as Jake Wagner, the 462 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: younger brother of defendant George Wagner, took the stand for 463 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: the second straight day to testify against his brother. Inside 464 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: the courtroom, prosecutor angiw Kinneppa asked Jake Wagner to describe 465 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: what he and his family did after arriving at home 466 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 1: immediately following the murders. Today's testimony were picked up right 467 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: where they left off Monday, where Jake, Billy, and George 468 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: had returned home from the killings at about four to 469 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: thirty am on April twenty second. Now, he says on 470 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: that night they actually drove back to their family barn 471 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: and began burning their clothes to get rid of any 472 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: evidence on them. Jake also says he took each of 473 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: their guns and began cutting them in half with power tools, 474 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: and even went so far as to try burning them 475 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: with a torch. However, Jake said he was unable to 476 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: melt down the weapons, so instead he burnt off the 477 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: serial numbers and then hit them. Then he admitted to 478 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: burying pieces of the guns in the barn underneath the 479 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: support beam, which he dug up with help from George. 480 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: Once they were done cleaning up, they went inside to 481 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: change clothes. Jake said he saw his mother, Angelo Agner, 482 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: in the kitchen, but did not speak with her. Later 483 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: in the morning, friend Andrew Carson called Jake and asked 484 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: if he'd heard what happened. Jake said he had seen 485 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: it on the news. Once news of the rodent's death 486 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: began to spread, Jake says he refused to speak about 487 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: it with his family while in private, and even tried 488 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: to forget about it completely out of guilt. Let's stop 489 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:25,239 Speaker 1: here for another break. Several weeks after the murder, as 490 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: Jake said, BCI agents came to the Wagner's home. It 491 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: was after this visit that the Wagners began to worry 492 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: they were under surveillance. Billy Wagner decided they should dig 493 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: up the weapons and place them into a concrete bucket 494 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: and drop them into a lake on his parents' property. 495 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: The weapons remained underwater until the Wagners were arrested in 496 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. The best plead bargain in the state of Ohio. 497 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: It is how the defense described the deal that Jake 498 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: Wagner made to avoid the death penalty. On the third 499 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: day of Jake Wagner's testimony, the defense took over questioning immediately. 500 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: George Wagner's attorney, John Parker, tried to paint Jake as 501 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: a liar who turned on his own brother to avoid 502 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Many and the jury were poised in 503 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: their seats. As a defense attorney, John Parker said, you 504 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: got off the hook for the death penalty for killing 505 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: the Rodents, yet your brother, who you admit did not 506 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: kill any of them, is still facing death. Parker quickly 507 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: asked him question after question to poke holes in Jake's 508 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: account of the massacre. The defense argued during its cross 509 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: examination that Jake Wagner murdered everyone and that George tried 510 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: to stop the murders. The defense read quotes from Jake's 511 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: statements to investigators that said George didn't like the idea whatsoever. 512 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: He thought of Hannah as a sister. He said he 513 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: didn't want to do it. Don't trust Dad. He decided 514 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: to go because he was thinking Dad was trying to 515 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: set me up. Then the defense led Jake through each 516 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: step of the massacre as he smiled at the strangest times. 517 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: After the second day of Jake Wagner's testimony, I spoke 518 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: with Jeff and Stephanie. Something that really struck me from 519 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: Jake's first day of testimony was his attempted interaction with 520 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: the Roden family, mouthing I'm sorry, or trying to make 521 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: eye contact with George. Did you see any of that 522 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: and what was that like in person? If you did, No, 523 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: there really wasn't any of that. Upon cross examination, I 524 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: believe the attorney mentioned did three or four times because 525 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: it was so pronounced. Was Jake's smiling slash smirking, the 526 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: same thing that we all noticed and commented on when 527 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: he pled guilty, specifically when he was asked about killing 528 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin and he kind of smirked. And what Jake 529 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: did was acknowledge. He said, I know this is a 530 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: very serious matter. It's not funny. It's just something happened. 531 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: Anyone who knows me knows that I smile at the 532 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: worst moments, right like when they're watching the Bundac Saints 533 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: clip in court. He's smiling, at least that's what I 534 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: read the defense attorney. He had an interesting way of 535 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: getting to say stuff, And what it appeared to be 536 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: was that the defense attorney was kind of doing everything 537 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: he could to get Jake to contradict himself, even in 538 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: small ways from what he has laid out. So as 539 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: an example, he said, oh, so you shot Hannah rode In, 540 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: the mother of your child, in the back of the head. 541 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: He said, no, I shot her in the front of 542 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: the head and was smiling. So is he just a 543 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: sociopath or just as horrible social skills? I mean, what's 544 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: your Obviously can't diagnose him, but I hadn't realized the 545 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: extent of just how long everything took. For example, and 546 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,719 Speaker 1: here are a couple of things that came to light today. 547 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: They actually stopped. They being Billy, Jake, and George. They 548 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: made a stop on the way to Chris Roden's house. 549 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: What and Billy was driving, Jake was under he had 550 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: constructed in the back bed of the car. He had 551 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: constructed a wooden platform and put bales of hay under it, 552 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: and was underneath that to hide. So he could lie 553 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: in wait to then sniper under the car. On the 554 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: drive there, Billy pulled over and said, are you sure 555 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: you want to go through at this? You know now 556 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: the time to turnaround if dot And the answer was 557 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: to just continue on shocking. Later, the courtroom was shown 558 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: some of the graphic crime scene photos. Jake admitted that 559 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: he had tried to block the gruesome images from his mind. 560 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,959 Speaker 1: Can you imagine having to look at those photos now 561 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: with distance, knowing that you were the perpetrator, But it's 562 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: a different perspective you're seeing it in a photograph. Has 563 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: he seen crime photos yet? Yes? On cross examination, the 564 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: attorney was reminding Jake. He said, you have seen pictures 565 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: of Kenneth Roden, who was shot one time in the eye, 566 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: the similarity of just as Hannah Gilly was shot straight 567 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: through the eye. And Jake said, oh, when I look 568 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: at the photos, I try I don't want to look 569 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: at any of the wounds. I try not to. Tony 570 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: said why, and he said, because I don't want that 571 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: to be in my memory, you know. Tony said, well, 572 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: that must be really nice. Hanname Rowden's final moment was 573 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: him smiling at her. Can you imagine She's waking up, 574 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: maybe allegedly in her bed, nursing her child, and you 575 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: see your ex smiling at you. Those are her final moments. 576 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: At the end of Jake Wagner's testimony, George Wagner's defense 577 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: attorney John Parker once again asked Jake if he was 578 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: a stone cold killer. Jake said yes. Parker accused Jake 579 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: Wagner of selling his testimony to the State of Ohio 580 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: and implicating George to save his own life. Jake insisted 581 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: he had provided truthful testimony. Parker then said, while waving 582 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: his hand, dismissively. Take him away, Judge, no further question 583 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: here again. Legal analyst Mike Allen on the impact of 584 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: George Wagner's three days of testimony. Nobody was contending, not 585 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: the defense certainly, and not the prosecution, that George shot anyone. 586 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: That was never the case. I mean, the closest he got, 587 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: according to the testimony, was he was supposed to pull 588 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: the trigger on one of them, but he couldn't. And 589 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: then Jake had to do it. What the State of 590 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: Ohio had to show, and I watched this closely. They 591 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: had to show that George was a part of the 592 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: preparation for the murder murders. He was a part of 593 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: the execution, although somewhat a small part in the execution 594 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: of the murders, but he was a really big part 595 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: in the aftermath with respect to disposing of evidence and 596 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: things like that, and the state showed that. More on 597 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: that next time for Warren. For me on the case 598 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 599 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,720 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masaker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 600 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. 601 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff ti Music by Jared Aston. 602 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and 603 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 604 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 605 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.