Speaker 1: I am deeply programmed to believe that my value is
Speaker 1: based on what I produce. Welcome to the one you
Speaker 1: feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of
Speaker 1: the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think ring true, and yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this
Speaker 1: episode is Belinda Gore, a psychologist, coach, and experienced seminar
Speaker 1: leader who is skilled in supporting high level learning and
Speaker 1: personal development. She holds a PhD in Counselor Education and
Speaker 1: Counseling Psychology from the Ohio State University. Using the angiogram system,
Speaker 1: along with thirty years experience and facilitating change, she helps
Speaker 1: leaders identify their natural talents and deliver results by engaging
Speaker 1: the best in themselves and their organizations. She founded the
Speaker 1: Angiogram Institute of Central Ohio. This interview was recorded live
Speaker 1: before an audience at the Sacred Geo Experience in Center Burg, Ohio.
Speaker 1: And here's the interview with Belinda Gore. Keep in mind,
Speaker 1: by the way, this interview was recorded outdoors, so you
Speaker 1: may be hearing some sounds you're not used to hearing.
Speaker 1: On the one you feed, like crickets, other outdoor noises
Speaker 1: and pa pssibly some cows knocking over the mic stands.
Speaker 1: You and I have sort of known each other through
Speaker 1: some connections for a number of years, which we'll talk
Speaker 1: about in a few minutes. But let's start the episode
Speaker 1: like we always do with the parable. So there is
Speaker 1: a grandfather who's talking with his grandson and he says,
Speaker 1: in life, there are two wolves inside of us that
Speaker 1: are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which
Speaker 1: represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the
Speaker 1: other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed
Speaker 1: and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he
Speaker 1: thinks about it for a second, and he looks up
Speaker 1: at his grandfather and he says, grandfather, which one wins?
Speaker 1: And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to start off by asking you what that parable
Speaker 1: means to you in your life and in the work
Speaker 1: that you do well. The one we feed is for
Speaker 1: me if I come at this from an any a
Speaker 1: grand point of view. My understanding of my aniogram type
Speaker 1: is that I have some core patterns, some ways I
Speaker 1: tend to think about life, some filters that are so
Speaker 1: deeply embedded that I don't even know that they're there.
Speaker 1: It was such an amazing experience for me in when
Speaker 1: I started to learn about the angiogram to see that, Wow,
Speaker 1: here I thought I was this person with all these
Speaker 1: special you know, secrets and things like this, and there
Speaker 1: it is in the book right, The one I feed
Speaker 1: has to do with not which type am I, but
Speaker 1: what aspect of my type? Do I want to stay
Speaker 1: constricted in my fears, in my belief that I am
Speaker 1: separate it and I have to be afraid and I
Speaker 1: have to figure out how to survive. Or do I
Speaker 1: want to feed the attitude that, in fact, the world
Speaker 1: is a safe place to be despite things that are
Speaker 1: dangerous and frightening, and that I can choose to be
Speaker 1: open to life. I can choose to not be afraid
Speaker 1: of the things that may hurt, I can stay present,
Speaker 1: and by doing that, the beauty of it is naturally
Speaker 1: for all of us. We open up into our highest
Speaker 1: capacities that are still within the type structure. But it's
Speaker 1: my gifts that my guests. Basically, I'm feeding by my
Speaker 1: willingness to stay open to life instead of letting my
Speaker 1: fears keep me hunched down and therefore stuck in the
Speaker 1: less it tractive aspects of my angiogram tendencies. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: an interesting point, and we'll get to that in a
Speaker 1: little bit. Because one of the things I found fascinating
Speaker 1: about the indiogram was it would describe how a type
Speaker 1: would look in there. I'm going to get the words wrong,
Speaker 1: but let's say they're flourishing state versus their shutdown state
Speaker 1: or there, you know, damaged state, and so it was
Speaker 1: really interesting to see, like, Okay, here's the central type,
Speaker 1: and here's what it looks like when it's doing well
Speaker 1: and when not. And it's that they're sort of symptoms
Speaker 1: to watch for as I saw it. So you sat
Speaker 1: on the board of directors for organization called Niches for
Speaker 1: a number of years. UM. I was on the board
Speaker 1: for a very short time. But the gentleman who founded
Speaker 1: and ran that UM thing was a man by the
Speaker 1: name of lu Dwine who's no longer with us, and UM.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I really wish about this
Speaker 1: show is that I could have him on, and I can't,
Speaker 1: which UM is too bad. So you, having been one
Speaker 1: of his best friends, I thought we could honor Lou
Speaker 1: by having you tell me the thing that you I'm
Speaker 1: sure you I learned a ton from the man. But
Speaker 1: if you could pull out one thing you learned from Lou,
Speaker 1: what would it be, well, I wrote back to I
Speaker 1: can think of lots of things. So the most important
Speaker 1: thing is the passion and commitment with which he engaged
Speaker 1: his life. He created a place in southern Ohio for
Speaker 1: all of us to learn how to be in the
Speaker 1: natural world, to learn how to not rely on electricity
Speaker 1: and running water, and to celebrate that instead of seeing
Speaker 1: it as a hardship. He worked really, really hard to
Speaker 1: create Niches. He lived there. He also taught at Capital University. UM.
Speaker 1: It was a hard life in one sense, but he
Speaker 1: was living his life. He was embracing what mattered to him,
Speaker 1: and he always stands up for me as a reminder
Speaker 1: of don't hold back, go for what you care about. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a great place. I think what I got
Speaker 1: from Lou among many things, one of them was that
Speaker 1: um idea that a connection to nature is a fundamental
Speaker 1: part of us and that that needs to be fed
Speaker 1: to use the wolf anlogy, which I don't think is
Speaker 1: something that I knew before that. I don't think I
Speaker 1: ever felt as um comfortable or safe or at home
Speaker 1: as I did sitting in the cabin when he was cooking.
Speaker 1: Lou would be so happy to be hearing you say that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a field called echo psychology saying that we're not
Speaker 1: healthy if we're not if we don't have a sense
Speaker 1: of being at home in the natural world, and so
Speaker 1: you can imagine we had a lot of conversations about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm it's wonderful to be able to celebrate
Speaker 1: Lou with you. And when we first spoke on the
Speaker 1: phone and you said, I think I recognized your name
Speaker 1: and did you know blue to wine or niches? And
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, Eric and I are going to be
Speaker 1: fine together. So let's now go into the angiogram. Can
Speaker 1: you explain what the anagram is? Well? Ten sentences your
Speaker 1: less yeah, yeah, yeah, so you'll you'll have to tug
Speaker 1: me away when when I get past my ninth sentence. Um,
Speaker 1: the angiogram is both a symbol, which is uh hanging
Speaker 1: up here, which is a nine pointed star figures so
Speaker 1: any a gram any It comes from the word for nine,
Speaker 1: So there are nine points, a diagram of nine points
Speaker 1: around a circle, connected in particular ways that we can
Speaker 1: talk about later. But the angiogram, in addition to being
Speaker 1: a symbol, the symbol is a map. And the map
Speaker 1: really shows the ways in which all forms of reality
Speaker 1: manifest or deteriorate. And so the angiogram of personality types
Speaker 1: helps us identify our core patterns, what do we most
Speaker 1: relate to, what are are inherent strengths and capacities, and
Speaker 1: an understanding of where we can get bogged down in
Speaker 1: those same areas, but also how we grow, and so
Speaker 1: it's a map. I've worked with this map for twenty
Speaker 1: six years now. Um. I'm a psychologist and I do coaching,
Speaker 1: and I use the angiogram. I teach the Angiogram to
Speaker 1: coaches because it's such a great map to be able
Speaker 1: to show up us, who are we and how do
Speaker 1: we feed the good wolf? I had a question that
Speaker 1: you said the indiogram for personality types is is this?
Speaker 1: Is there more to it than the personality types? Yes? Okay, um,
Speaker 1: I think that we shouldn't even go there because there's
Speaker 1: way too much to talk about and we're going to
Speaker 1: be doing well to talk about the angiogram of personality
Speaker 1: and this time excellent. Well why don't we take a
Speaker 1: minute and walk through what the basic personality types are? Now.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I like about the indiogram
Speaker 1: is that it sounds very mystical, and you look at
Speaker 1: the symbol and it seems mystical, and it may have
Speaker 1: elements of that, but the test and the results struck
Speaker 1: me as just a very well done personality test and
Speaker 1: so um, that struck me. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: if if you haven't done in a Graham test, anybody,
Speaker 1: whether you're here or listening, it's certainly worth doing. And
Speaker 1: there's a there's a couple of free ones online and
Speaker 1: then you can pay for a little bit more. But
Speaker 1: I found it to be maybe the best of the
Speaker 1: various personality type tests that I've taken that seemed to
Speaker 1: illuminate to me the most what type I was. So
Speaker 1: let's spend a minute and walk through what the types are.
Speaker 1: I don't think you might be able to hear a
Speaker 1: type and go, oh, that's me. But I think that's
Speaker 1: that diagnosis might be false. So I would definitely recommend
Speaker 1: taking the test. But why don't you tell us what
Speaker 1: the different types are. Well, I'm gonna then tell them
Speaker 1: what the best type. I'm gonna start with nine, right right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So just as long as we're clear he cued me
Speaker 1: for that one. Yes, Before we even start with the
Speaker 1: nine types, I want to talk about how the angiogram
Speaker 1: is so generic. It's based on three centers of intelligence
Speaker 1: that we all have, the belly center, the heart center,
Speaker 1: and the head center. Now, of course, most of us
Speaker 1: think that our intelligences in our heads. There are great
Speaker 1: studies published. Heart Math is an organization that talks about
Speaker 1: the intelligence in the heart, and there's a lot about
Speaker 1: how many neural connections we have in the belly center
Speaker 1: plexus of nerves. So we have different ways of being intelligent,
Speaker 1: and the angiogram, the nine types are based on those
Speaker 1: three centers. So there are three types that are connected
Speaker 1: with each of the three centers, hence nine and to
Speaker 1: understand the types. It's not so hard to understand the
Speaker 1: head center as a point of intelligence because we think
Speaker 1: about the you know, two lobes of the brain are
Speaker 1: logic and even the right brain, which recognizes patterns. But
Speaker 1: when we think about the heart as a center of
Speaker 1: an intelligence, one of the things we can do is
Speaker 1: recognized it in our language. We think we have phrases
Speaker 1: that talk about accessing the wisdom of the heart. Any
Speaker 1: of who come to mind for you, like, you know,
Speaker 1: follow your heart or even being hardhearted or yeah, warmhearted
Speaker 1: or cold hearted. We know we've embedded in our language
Speaker 1: the knowledge that there is some wisdom here. Similarly, with
Speaker 1: the gut, what do we know about god? Gut instinct? Yes,
Speaker 1: follow your gut. I couldn't stomach it, you know, it
Speaker 1: is the screening system that's already going there. So the
Speaker 1: angiogram is based on there are three types that have
Speaker 1: fundamental issues with one of these three centers. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna start with the belly. The reason we start there
Speaker 1: is that's where we all start when we're babies. I mean,
Speaker 1: what do we do? You know, we're all about our
Speaker 1: instincts and we're all about taking care of ourselves. And
Speaker 1: the belly center is just about being grounded and centered
Speaker 1: and um accessing our instincts. Um So, there are three
Speaker 1: ways we can interact with the belly. We can overdo it.
Speaker 1: We can rely on it too much. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just we're gonna just muscle ahead. I realized that your
Speaker 1: listeners can't see my gesture here, so I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: making a fist and pushing forward. We can channel all
Speaker 1: of this energy into something, or we can have a
Speaker 1: complicated relationship in which we kind of rest in the
Speaker 1: belly when we want to be comfortable and couch potatoes
Speaker 1: and you know, just sort of be in the belly,
Speaker 1: be in our bodies or connect from it. So all
Speaker 1: of that foundation to say, first type is type eight,
Speaker 1: So have a look over there, and type eight is
Speaker 1: the type that overdoes the belly center. Sometimes it's called
Speaker 1: the boss, the leader. It's an energy that accesses this
Speaker 1: belly energy and pushes forward. Um So, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: always interested in how people relate to that. As far
Speaker 1: as who you think of um, lots of military generals,
Speaker 1: the mafia. Um. You know, it's like, I'll take good
Speaker 1: care of you as long as you do what I
Speaker 1: tell you to. And if you don't, then I'll break
Speaker 1: your knees or put your feet and cement and drop
Speaker 1: you in the river, you know, Okay? And and how
Speaker 1: nice you have to be to me right trying to
Speaker 1: So the high side of eight is being able to
Speaker 1: act on your vision to be a strong leader Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King Jr. And what's the great movie that's just
Speaker 1: been out, Selma, wonderful movie about him as a leader.
Speaker 1: So we've got that kind of visionary leader. And then
Speaker 1: we've got the lower brand of type eight, which is
Speaker 1: my way or the highway. And you know, if you
Speaker 1: don't do it the way I want you to, I'll
Speaker 1: get you one way or another. So probably we don't
Speaker 1: have any low level eights in the group, right, okay? Um.
Speaker 1: Then we go to type nine, your favorite type. It's
Speaker 1: at the very terry top. Yeah, that means one of yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the unfortunate things Eric is actually none of
Speaker 1: the types is inherently better than any of the other types,
Speaker 1: and that the numb or it doesn't have anything to
Speaker 1: do with the strength of the type, the goodness of
Speaker 1: the type. It's just I tend to use the numbers
Speaker 1: because a lot of any Agraham teachers have seen fit
Speaker 1: to give their own names to it. So some teachers
Speaker 1: called nine the peacemaker, other calls the mediator. Do you
Speaker 1: remember any other words that have come up? The peacemaker mainly?
Speaker 1: So the thing is you can read five different teachers
Speaker 1: and have five different names. So somebody says I'm the peacemaker,
Speaker 1: and somebody who's trained with somebody else says, I don't
Speaker 1: know what that is, So I just use numbers. Okay.
Speaker 1: So type nine, even though it's at the top of
Speaker 1: the the of the angiogram, star has this complicated relationship
Speaker 1: with the belly center. Sometimes inside the I call it
Speaker 1: being boxed in. Inside the boxes being you know, just
Speaker 1: really liking your comforts, really liking you know, whether it's
Speaker 1: a beer and potato chips in the football game or
Speaker 1: h taking a nice walk in nature, but just really
Speaker 1: getting in the body, being in the belly, feeling at
Speaker 1: ease there. But then what nines can do is get
Speaker 1: outside that box and lose touch with themselves altogether, and
Speaker 1: then they're just like I'll do anything to get along,
Speaker 1: don't rock the boat. Uh, no conflict. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to suppress myself so i can fit in. And obviously
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to not go on and on
Speaker 1: and on about descriptions of the type. But I'm trying
Speaker 1: hard not to anything you're hearing about Type nine or
Speaker 1: that you remember about Type nine that you'd like to
Speaker 1: add to this since you are one, Well, I certainly
Speaker 1: think that idea of um, you know, not rocking the boat,
Speaker 1: being willing to sort of put aside maybe what I
Speaker 1: want at certain times just for peace, has certainly been
Speaker 1: a tendency of mine when I'm not at my best.
Speaker 1: And on the high side, you're probably a great interviewer
Speaker 1: because nine are mediators and so you can look at
Speaker 1: the world through anybody's eyes, you know, and engage me
Speaker 1: where I am. So okay, nine maybe they are the best.
Speaker 1: Type one, which is also the belly center, uses this
Speaker 1: energy of the belly but channels it to follow their ideals.
Speaker 1: So Type one is the reformer is the Uh, it's
Speaker 1: not my way or the highway. It's that there's a
Speaker 1: right way, and I'm gonna do it the right way.
Speaker 1: Because I it's black and white, and I only want
Speaker 1: to be the good wolf, and I never want to
Speaker 1: be the bad wolf. So I have to walk the
Speaker 1: straight narrow, and preferably I'd like to make you walk
Speaker 1: the straight and narrow too, so that anything I'm involved
Speaker 1: with will be right and good. And here's the rest
Speaker 1: of the interview with Belenda Gore. This might be an
Speaker 1: over generalization, but is are most people you would describe
Speaker 1: as fundamentalist. They tend to be on low level ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fundamentalism is even though the individuals may not be a
Speaker 1: lot of fundamentalists are lower level type one because there's
Speaker 1: that deep belief that they're right and you're wrong, and
Speaker 1: if you're wrong, you're the devil. You know. It's like
Speaker 1: this is easy, except underneath it. All ones are very
Speaker 1: hard on themselves and so it's really painful to realize
Speaker 1: how much they can punish themselves for falling short of perfection,
Speaker 1: which we're all short of perfection. You know the song
Speaker 1: from What is It Man from La Mancha, to dream
Speaker 1: the impossible Dream, to fight the unbeatable foe. That's type one.
Speaker 1: I will spare you singing of the song, but I
Speaker 1: could end okay, alright, great, that sounds good. Okay, So
Speaker 1: that's the bellies center. Does that seem clear? Okay, So
Speaker 1: now we go to the heart. So the belly when
Speaker 1: we're little kids is kind of like I've got a body.
Speaker 1: I'm figuring out how my body works. I'm showing up
Speaker 1: here I am. The heart asks the question, so here
Speaker 1: I am? Who am I? And the heart is the
Speaker 1: intelligence that allows us to relate to other people. So
Speaker 1: when we talk about being hardhearted, usually that means not
Speaker 1: feeling connected to people, and warmhearted is engaging. The interesting
Speaker 1: thing with the angiogram is that we can do the
Speaker 1: same three patterns with these types. So tight two overdes
Speaker 1: the heart center. It's sometimes called the helper, and it's
Speaker 1: like every problem, he's turning around to look at someone
Speaker 1: who we know. Is it too all right? And she
Speaker 1: can come over and we'll ask a few questions in
Speaker 1: a moment. It's always the default position is I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep my heart open and love and give and that
Speaker 1: will solve everything. Now, some people would say that sounds
Speaker 1: pretty good, but what twos don't do is they don't
Speaker 1: take care of themselves. They're always taking care of other people.
Speaker 1: In hopes that you get it that if I take
Speaker 1: care of you, that you're supposed to take care of me.
Speaker 1: But that is yes, And so twos don't want to
Speaker 1: us tell what their needs are and can get manipulative
Speaker 1: or things like that, you know, to try to get
Speaker 1: their needs met because they feel like it's a wrong
Speaker 1: thing to ask for those needs to be met. A
Speaker 1: question I have for you in general is, you know,
Speaker 1: when you take the test, you get scores back, So
Speaker 1: you're thirty five points on a nine and twenty seven
Speaker 1: points on a seven, and so there's clearly a mix
Speaker 1: of things going on here. So are there people who
Speaker 1: are more firmly in type and other people who float
Speaker 1: between types more? Well, we all have a core type,
Speaker 1: it's a good question. We all have a place that
Speaker 1: is the focal point for our patterns around which our
Speaker 1: personalities have formed when we're young. But we all have
Speaker 1: all nine types in us. And so rather than really compartmentalizing,
Speaker 1: and I think the twos, the Geese who are twos
Speaker 1: have come to help us out with this. Uh that
Speaker 1: that um, because we have all nine types in us,
Speaker 1: everybody here and listening probably can rect nice a little
Speaker 1: bit of something of themselves in each of them. Do
Speaker 1: people change types because I think several years ago I
Speaker 1: took an Instagram and I was a different type. It
Speaker 1: might be the level of awareness I have about myself
Speaker 1: to answer those questions. Yes, indeed that first, the scores
Speaker 1: are only reflecting what you know about yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: so there's no magic that's kind of discerning what you
Speaker 1: really are. The scores are just telling you what you
Speaker 1: respond to in the questions. So the more self awareness
Speaker 1: you have, the more likely you are to have an
Speaker 1: accurate top score. Usually, in working with people, we look
Speaker 1: at the top three scores to try to then see
Speaker 1: what's uh, what really is underlying a person's orientation to
Speaker 1: the world. And if you can't find yourself in the
Speaker 1: lower aspects at least once or twice in your life,
Speaker 1: it's probably not your core type. So I could find
Speaker 1: out that I'm not a nine, and then I would
Speaker 1: be very disappointed, since it's the best I know. It's
Speaker 1: so difficult to have to manipulate these personality tests, isn't
Speaker 1: it yet? So we're talking about twos. Okay, so let's
Speaker 1: move along to three. So if you remember, the pattern
Speaker 1: is overuses the center of intelligence now, threes, like nines,
Speaker 1: can get the center in a box, so that means
Speaker 1: the heart center. Threes, who are sometimes called um the motivator,
Speaker 1: the performer in the sense of performing well being success
Speaker 1: oriented either inside themselves, have a lot of emotional reaction
Speaker 1: to who am I and trying to find their sense
Speaker 1: of value but not wanting that to show. And so
Speaker 1: what they do is get outside the box and do
Speaker 1: perfor warm according to what you say, is going to
Speaker 1: be successful. So it's being out of touch with my
Speaker 1: own sense of identity and my own sense of value.
Speaker 1: Type three is my core type. And uh so when
Speaker 1: I was three years old, for some reason, I could
Speaker 1: remember poetry and I learned was the night before Christmas.
Speaker 1: I was almost four, and um my mother was a
Speaker 1: teacher and her friend who taught English. They decided to
Speaker 1: take me and put me on the desk in front
Speaker 1: of a class of seventh grade English, you know, twelve
Speaker 1: year old, so that I could recite it was the
Speaker 1: night before Christmas, so that Mrs cannot could say, see,
Speaker 1: if a three year old can do this, you can
Speaker 1: do it now. First, how terrified would I be a
Speaker 1: little girl? But I did it for my mother because
Speaker 1: I wanted her to be proud of me, and it's
Speaker 1: taken me year to kind of process through not doing
Speaker 1: things so that other people will admire me or be
Speaker 1: proud of me, but do it because it's my heart's desire.
Speaker 1: So after I think, um, the impossible dream, all reside
Speaker 1: to what's the night before Christmas? You only have to oh,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for understanding. So then we go
Speaker 1: to type four and type four. Like one channels the
Speaker 1: belly center energy the drive into their ideals, Type four
Speaker 1: channels the energy of the heart into their drive to
Speaker 1: find their identity. And fours are some teachers called them
Speaker 1: the artists, but everybody can be artistic. You don't have
Speaker 1: to be a four. But fours are trying to find
Speaker 1: themselves and look for that through their creative expression force.
Speaker 1: Typically a very sensitive in the heart, but in order
Speaker 1: to know themselves, they relate more to feelings than anything
Speaker 1: and can make up fantasies to have feeling responses to
Speaker 1: the fantasies to be able to say, oh, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: this is who I am. I'm somebody who feels this.
Speaker 1: So sometimes they can seem like either drama queens or
Speaker 1: a little out of touch with sort of the nitty
Speaker 1: gritty practical things in life. Of the beauty of Fords
Speaker 1: is their sensitivity to beauty and their appreciation for creative
Speaker 1: expression in the world. So those are the heart center
Speaker 1: tights onto the head. So belly center is here I am.
Speaker 1: Heart center is who am I? What's my identity? What's
Speaker 1: my value? The head center is the only place where
Speaker 1: we can move beyond being right here, right now? And
Speaker 1: so the head is about so where do I go
Speaker 1: from here? And what can I trust? It's looking to
Speaker 1: the future, and so the head center actually can get
Speaker 1: um overinvolved with fear because what is the future but
Speaker 1: the unknown? So it's trying to figure out the future.
Speaker 1: So I'll be safe Type five as we go around
Speaker 1: the circle. Five's overused the head center, and so um
Speaker 1: at the kind of average to low average. You've got geeks,
Speaker 1: You've got folks who are just I'm going to be
Speaker 1: the expert in this, and I'm going to find my
Speaker 1: security in knowing everything about this three square inches of reality.
Speaker 1: And if I'm in the midst of my expertise, don't
Speaker 1: mess with me. If we get outside my expertise, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go read a book and Um, you guys, you know,
Speaker 1: talk among yourselves, and I'm gonna not be part of this.
Speaker 1: So I mean we have certainly the world of technology
Speaker 1: has lots of fives. And Bill Gates is an example
Speaker 1: of a person with a core type five who's um
Speaker 1: gone to the higher aspects. But if you've seen pictures
Speaker 1: of him when he was getting started. You ever seen
Speaker 1: some of those pictures with those big thick glasses and
Speaker 1: the kind of nerdy clothes and the whole thing Big
Speaker 1: Bang Theory is is a great example of type fives.
Speaker 1: So everybody's kind of chuckling in the background. Um, actually
Speaker 1: it's a television program that's done a lot of service
Speaker 1: really for five, so that we sort of get to
Speaker 1: know who they are. Um onto type six. Six then,
Speaker 1: like nine and three is kind of boxed in but
Speaker 1: in the head center. So six is are people who
Speaker 1: are the best warriors in the angiogram who kind of
Speaker 1: go over things over and over and over again in
Speaker 1: their heads. Ruminators, trouble shooters, you know what could go
Speaker 1: wrong and how can we fix it? Now, we all
Speaker 1: do that to some degree, but they're the experts at
Speaker 1: doing that. But then, um, the sixth pattern is to
Speaker 1: get out of touch with this to say, I can't
Speaker 1: trust my own thinking. So I'm going to shut down
Speaker 1: my thinking and I'm going to look for the expert,
Speaker 1: the authority, the right book, the right school, the right whatever,
Speaker 1: and follow. I'll be a good follower. You find a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are oriented to type six in
Speaker 1: organizations that have a structure, because the rules are there
Speaker 1: and the authority is outlined, and so in the military, um,
Speaker 1: in religious life and you know, monasteries and so forth,
Speaker 1: also higher education. You know, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: really clear rules about where you are and what what
Speaker 1: are you supposed to do in order to be able
Speaker 1: to move up in the hierarchy some corporations. But being
Speaker 1: good followers is really a key word. And then finally
Speaker 1: we come around to type seven and type seven never
Speaker 1: think of themselves as being head types because they're using
Speaker 1: all of the head energy to do what I call
Speaker 1: optimizing options. Because seven's are afraid of being bored or
Speaker 1: in pain or kind of stuck in stuff they don't like,
Speaker 1: So they're always thinking about creative things to do, interesting
Speaker 1: people to get to know. Um, let's have more conversations,
Speaker 1: let's do this, and can be very talented really in
Speaker 1: doing a lot of different things. I think that's my
Speaker 1: second most dominant type. Okay, I know we have some
Speaker 1: sevens in this group, and you can hear a little
Speaker 1: bit of laughter in the background as they identify themselves. Um,
Speaker 1: I hope it's okay. But Carrie is a seven and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just having this wild idea and gone, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's go for it. And so there's that energy that's
Speaker 1: very optimistic. And sevens are good entrepreneurs if they don't
Speaker 1: scatter themselves too broadly. So that runs us through the
Speaker 1: nine types. And like you said, each of those you
Speaker 1: gave a very brief description. If we were to go
Speaker 1: into each one, we'd we'd identify what they look like
Speaker 1: when they're thriving. What was the word you used for
Speaker 1: when they're not thriving, constricted? Constricted, And so it's really
Speaker 1: interest need to look at those um and see what
Speaker 1: you look like in each of those ways. So how
Speaker 1: can people knowing their anagram type, how can they use
Speaker 1: that to for example, feed their good wolf. What are
Speaker 1: things that people can do with this to you know,
Speaker 1: make their lives better? The angiogram helps you know what
Speaker 1: you're really good at, what your inherent strength is. And
Speaker 1: so if you know that you're a good mediator, that
Speaker 1: you're good at getting along with a lot of different
Speaker 1: kinds of people, that you're good at peacemaking one, it
Speaker 1: can help you just in very practical ways to figure out,
Speaker 1: so what kind of work do you want to do?
Speaker 1: Are you going to be in a high conflict environment
Speaker 1: and enjoy yourself? I don't think so, you know, So
Speaker 1: it helps in making that kind of decision. Um. It
Speaker 1: also helps, I think in celebrating the fact that we
Speaker 1: don't all have the same inherent strength. I'm not a
Speaker 1: great peacemaker, you know, But I'm a good motivator, you know.
Speaker 1: And so um, if I know my strength and you
Speaker 1: know your strength, and we're working together, then we can
Speaker 1: support and make good use of our diversity instead of
Speaker 1: trying to have everybody be the same kind of person.
Speaker 1: And I think in some of the readings I've done
Speaker 1: on the angiogram, you can actually look at your type
Speaker 1: and another person's types, of your partner's type, and see
Speaker 1: what sort of interactions you might tend to have that
Speaker 1: could be positive and negative and things to look for
Speaker 1: and look out for. Um. Because the angiogram is a
Speaker 1: three by three model. We can organize the types in
Speaker 1: different ways. So I introduced them to you by doing
Speaker 1: the three centers of religence and the three types oriented
Speaker 1: towards each of those centers. Another way we can organize
Speaker 1: the types is by how we tend to go about
Speaker 1: just engaging with life. So the three styles are an
Speaker 1: assertive style, which is like, yeah, okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1: We'll figure it out as we go along. You know,
Speaker 1: we don't have to have a lot of rules, we
Speaker 1: don't have to have a lot of definitions. Let's just
Speaker 1: jump in. So type seven, Type eight, which is you know,
Speaker 1: full steam ahead, and type three, which is you know,
Speaker 1: I'll reach in and figure out how to do just
Speaker 1: about anything. And so those three types like to get
Speaker 1: in there and all the other types kind of go, well,
Speaker 1: settle down, you know. And then there are three types
Speaker 1: that are sometimes called the operators. It doesn't mean they're cooperative,
Speaker 1: but that they want to figure out how things work together.
Speaker 1: And those types are types one, two, and six. So
Speaker 1: type one wants to clarify what are the rules? So
Speaker 1: before we get started, let's just be very clear about
Speaker 1: what we're doing. Is it the right thing. What are
Speaker 1: the rules we're going to follow if they're not very healthy?
Speaker 1: How are we going to punish people when they break
Speaker 1: the rules? Type two, which interestingly is what are the
Speaker 1: rules for our interpersonal engagement? Remember Type two is a
Speaker 1: heart type, so it's about connection, but it's what are
Speaker 1: our assumptions about how we're interacting with each other. So
Speaker 1: twos who can seem so uh nice and gregarious and
Speaker 1: wanting to be helpful, if you break some of those
Speaker 1: basic rules about you know, nice people don't do that,
Speaker 1: they can get very angry about it. Um Type six
Speaker 1: also wants to know what the rules are, but just
Speaker 1: because they want the expectations clarified, you know, and what's
Speaker 1: the hierarchy of authority and how do we go about it?
Speaker 1: And when I do this with groups of emerging leaders,
Speaker 1: for instance, it's amazing because the three sevens and eights
Speaker 1: are like boring. You know, why do we have to
Speaker 1: sit around and figure out hut ours, the goal and
Speaker 1: how we're going to do things and who's gonna do what? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, like well, maybe we get halfway in
Speaker 1: and you find out you're good at what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: and you know, you want to join my team, and
Speaker 1: let's be flexible. But one, two, and six say, but
Speaker 1: let's have some structure, because then we don't waste time.
Speaker 1: We know what's expected. It's going to be easier on everybody.
Speaker 1: And I bet you're wondering what the nines are doing.
Speaker 1: So we have four or five and nine who are
Speaker 1: called the withdrawn types. They will show up at meetings.
Speaker 1: They will listen to what the project is or what
Speaker 1: the overall agenda is, and then they want to go
Speaker 1: back and check it out with their inner world. You know,
Speaker 1: I always say nines have a happy place inside, and
Speaker 1: nines want to check out does this disrupt my happy
Speaker 1: place too much? Fives want to know, you know, does
Speaker 1: this match my area of expertise? For is want to know?
Speaker 1: Is can my identity? Can I keep finding my identity here?
Speaker 1: And are we going? Is this going to be meaningful
Speaker 1: to me? So they go away. They don't withdraw like
Speaker 1: wall flowers. But you see these other types are saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know what's wrong with them? Three, seven, eight, It's like,
Speaker 1: let's get going. Where are you once? Twos and six
Speaker 1: is say you've dropped out? You know you have responsibilities here.
Speaker 1: But four five and nine are just going to take
Speaker 1: some time for themselves, figure out where they stand with
Speaker 1: it all, and then they'll come back. So good managers
Speaker 1: need to know to give them that little bit of
Speaker 1: space to be able to do it. Does anyone know
Speaker 1: how long we have been going? I don't have the
Speaker 1: foggiest idea, Carrie. Did we have a time we wanted
Speaker 1: to go? No? All right, I'll settle in another three
Speaker 1: or four hours and we should be done here. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's settle her down here. Okay, yeah, okay. I want
Speaker 1: to shift off the angiogram for a second and ask
Speaker 1: you about ecstatic body postures. So you've written a book,
Speaker 1: two books about ecstatic body postures, and so what is that? Well,
Speaker 1: ecstatic body postures. The really short version is that my
Speaker 1: friend and colleague Felicitus Goodman, who was an anthropologist, discovered
Speaker 1: in her research that the artwork of indigenous people around
Speaker 1: the world shows unusual body positions. You know, you've seen
Speaker 1: totem poles and cave drawings and terra cotta figures of
Speaker 1: people and animals in unusual positions and sometimes sort of
Speaker 1: animal head and a human body or vice versa. Those
Speaker 1: images are the documentation of preliterate people, people who didn't
Speaker 1: have a written language, to give instructions for how we
Speaker 1: can use our bodies in specific ways to activate our
Speaker 1: natural capacity in our human nervous system, to move beyond
Speaker 1: the limitations of our personality, to move beyond our minds,
Speaker 1: to experience the larger reality. To some degree, it is
Speaker 1: a reality that is often defined by shamanism, the world
Speaker 1: of animal spirits and so forth. But the method itself,
Speaker 1: UM really felicitous identified for UM a long series of
Speaker 1: bits of research that she was doing, and so basically
Speaker 1: it's creating sacred space UM inviting the I love it.
Speaker 1: Carlos Castaneda called the spirits inorganic beings of awareness, so
Speaker 1: that there is consciousness every place, and we call on
Speaker 1: aspects of that consciousness to be with us, to surround
Speaker 1: us in the ritual. UM, do a breathing exercise to
Speaker 1: just quiet down the mind, hold a body posture, and
Speaker 1: then sound is what activates the nervous system to make
Speaker 1: that shift of orientation from the left brain order that
Speaker 1: we're accustomed to, and really body position itself feeds the
Speaker 1: right brain. The sound activates the right brain, and we
Speaker 1: just very naturally go into expanded states of consciousness. We
Speaker 1: know that's possible through psychotropic drugs. Um, this is just
Speaker 1: a way to do it through sound in the body. Interesting, well,
Speaker 1: I would certainly like to explore that more. A you're
Speaker 1: going to strike a ecstatic body pose force here. Let's
Speaker 1: see if I can do one here. No, no, it's
Speaker 1: not interesting that I'm I'm blocking on one of them,
Speaker 1: but you know, just sitting like I've got my hands
Speaker 1: mixed up. But there's some that are just like lying
Speaker 1: on the floor with your hand over your head. Um.
Speaker 1: They're not very many that are seated. Um. They're mostly
Speaker 1: standing or lying down. Um. And they look so simple
Speaker 1: and yet very subtle changes in the place and the
Speaker 1: arms or the hands or the next bat can activate.
Speaker 1: Some patterns are more for healing, Some are more for
Speaker 1: asking questions. Some teach us about, you know, the basics
Speaker 1: of death. Yeah, I just discovered I've done it twice
Speaker 1: now floating are you familiar with it's a new I
Speaker 1: guess it's not new, but it's you go into this
Speaker 1: uh tank that is has a huge amount of salt
Speaker 1: in it, and it basically you can't hear anything. You
Speaker 1: can't see anything, and you float in exactly water that's
Speaker 1: the same temperature as your skin, and it's sort of
Speaker 1: like but I think it's again another method of perhaps
Speaker 1: um accessing other states or maybe turning off that frantic consciousness,
Speaker 1: which is kind of what you're describing there. So um,
Speaker 1: so let's do one last question here. What lesson has
Speaker 1: taken you the longest to learn in your life? To
Speaker 1: be brutally honest. Because I have Type three as my
Speaker 1: core type, I am deeply programmed to believe that my
Speaker 1: value is based on what I produce, and to understand
Speaker 1: that I am a human being with inherent value. Even
Speaker 1: if I don't do anything, I get myself way overbooked
Speaker 1: because if somebody wants me to do something, it's not
Speaker 1: like I'm being helpful, but it's like I have something
Speaker 1: of value to offer, you know, And so I tend
Speaker 1: to say yes too often and to not feel guilty
Speaker 1: or uneasy. It's really more uneasy than guilty, uneasy about
Speaker 1: taking time to do something that nobody else is going
Speaker 1: to know about or see. I'm making an art journal
Speaker 1: that I don't think anybody else but me is ever
Speaker 1: going to see in the whole world, and that's wonderful
Speaker 1: for me, but I get a little like, is this okay?
Speaker 1: What will become of me? It's okay, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I've got three is my next most dominant so it's
Speaker 1: I'm not very good at doing nothing. And you'll see,
Speaker 1: by the way on the glyph of the angiogram that
Speaker 1: nine and three are connected by a line. So there's
Speaker 1: a reason that we don't have to go into. But yes,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you do have some tendencies to feel that. Well.
Speaker 1: I think that is a great place to go ahead
Speaker 1: and wrap up. So thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time to sit down and talk with me. It's
Speaker 1: gonna apply. So you can learn more about be Linda
Speaker 1: Gore and this podcast at one you Feed dot net
Speaker 1: slash Belinda