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Speaker 1: Hey, the folks. It is Tuesday, July first, and the

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Speaker 1: jury has reached verdicts in the Diddy trial. But we

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Speaker 1: don't know what the verdicts are yet, and we might

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Speaker 1: not know for several days. Why more jury drama, folks,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to this episode, this second Diddy update episode of

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Speaker 1: Amy and TJ for the day Robes. What was your reaction?

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Speaker 1: I had to give you the updates in real time

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Speaker 1: via text because you happen to be out at the time.

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Speaker 1: But what were was your reaction to hearing what we

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Speaker 1: know now?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my heart was pounding.

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Speaker 3: I was running around New York City in the rain

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Speaker 3: and trying to get some errands done, but like hearing

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Speaker 3: from you that there were verdicts in Bam, my heart stopped,

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Speaker 3: and so I tried to start looking at my phone,

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Speaker 3: reading the reporters who were in the room, trying to

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Speaker 3: read the tea leaves, because we first just started getting

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Speaker 3: anecdotal observations about how Diddy was reacting and how his

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Speaker 3: defense team was reacting, and I was trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out what that meant. It was confusing, exciting, and I

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Speaker 3: don't know. So much is on the line, and we've

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Speaker 3: all been following this everyone who's been listening with us,

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Speaker 3: but those of us who are covering it, it just

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Speaker 3: it's overwhelming, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So folks, we'll let you know where we are

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Speaker 1: right now as of this recording, early evening here on

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Speaker 1: July first, the jury has gone home. They've gone home

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Speaker 1: for the day, but they sent a note to the

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Speaker 1: judge at about four fifteen this afternoon, that note telling

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Speaker 1: him that they had reached verdicts on four of the

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Speaker 1: five counts against Sean Diddy Combs. The one count robes

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Speaker 1: they're hung up on. We should not be surprised, and

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Speaker 1: we are not legal experts, but I guess we kind

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Speaker 1: of saw this coming.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they are stuck on the racketeering conspiracy charge. That,

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Speaker 3: of course, is the one that was the most confusing

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Speaker 3: and complex and the one that would send Diddy to

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Speaker 3: prison for the rest of his life. So that is

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Speaker 3: the one that they were asking questions about. We kind

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Speaker 3: of figured that out. But what we hadn't realized is

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Speaker 3: it sounds like perhaps they had already pretty quickly made

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Speaker 3: decisions on count two, three, four, and five.

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Speaker 1: Hey, that's tough to's that is what is that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: any legal expert will tell you something and what that means.

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Speaker 1: But they started sending notes, and it's giving an indication

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Speaker 1: that they were debating about the racketeering charge really really

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Speaker 1: early in the process. So to think that counts two, three,

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Speaker 1: four five they were unanimous on in a matter of

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Speaker 1: it had to be an hour.

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Speaker 3: I know so. And look, I am no legal expert,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of folks will believe if you get

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Speaker 3: a verdict back quickly or decision is made quickly, oftentimes

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Speaker 3: it is guilty. That is just typically what you see.

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Speaker 3: It's not always the case. But to add to that,

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Speaker 3: the defense team, who knows what they're telling Diddy, what

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Speaker 3: they're telling their client. But from the folks who were

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Speaker 3: in the room, they said his face looked despondent, and

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Speaker 3: there were a lot of hugs, There was a lot

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Speaker 3: of pats on the backs. The mood seemed serious, I believe,

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Speaker 3: is how they described it.

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Speaker 1: I think you saw as well. We read again, folks,

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Speaker 1: We read all of the commentary from the reporters who

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Speaker 1: are in the room, so they're feverishly typing their observations

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Speaker 1: and then we take it in. Now we from Sky News, BBC,

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Speaker 1: the Independent.

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Speaker 2: Of CNN, ABC.

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Speaker 1: NBC, we look at all of these things ropes. I

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Speaker 1: saw a few initially talking about hugs and almost smiles

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Speaker 1: and even laughter on Ditty's side. I saw some follow

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Speaker 1: ups that said after the note came that there were hugs,

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Speaker 1: very serious looks on their faces, and to your point, desponded.

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Speaker 1: So some of the scenes they're describing were different. But

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Speaker 1: I think what you just said was more consistent and

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Speaker 1: what everybody was observing, like something's up, something serious. Why

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Speaker 1: are they hugging?

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Speaker 3: Yes, And because they don't know, obviously, no one knows

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Speaker 3: what the verdict is if it's not guilty or guilty,

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Speaker 3: but most attorneys know in these types of situations. Just

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Speaker 3: they're reading between the lines in terms of the notes

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Speaker 3: that the jurors have been sending over the last day

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Speaker 3: and a half and the fact that they are stuck

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Speaker 3: on the most serious charge. But seemingly came pretty quickly

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Speaker 3: to their decision on count two, which is sex trafficking

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Speaker 3: by force, fraud or coersion that was about Cassie Ventur.

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Speaker 3: They had a unanimous decision on count three, that's transportation

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Speaker 3: to engage in prostitution that also pertains to Cassie Ventura

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Speaker 3: and the sex workers that we've heard about. They're unanimous

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Speaker 3: on the count four charge, which is also sex trafficking

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Speaker 3: by force, fraud or corrosion, this is in reference to Jane,

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Speaker 3: and then unanimous on their decision for count five, which

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Speaker 3: is transportation to engage in prostitution that is involving Jane

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Speaker 3: and the sex workers that also a part of that

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Speaker 3: that testified as well.

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Speaker 1: So you know, look, it's settled right now. They have

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Speaker 1: settled and they have made a decision about the fate

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Speaker 1: of Sean Didtycomb's on four of five counts, the most

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Speaker 1: serious one is left, sure, but the fact that he

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Speaker 1: is potentially looking and again robes on two of those

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Speaker 1: counts we're talking about sex trafficking. Those carry a minimum

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Speaker 1: of fifteen years each, correct a minimum, yes, a minimum

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Speaker 1: of fifteen years. He has the other two, the prostitution

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Speaker 1: counts have a maximum of ten years. But he is

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Speaker 1: looking at some serious, serious prison time if in fact

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Speaker 1: these are guilty. I mean, I was going back and

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Speaker 1: forth before we started recording with you, like, how do

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Speaker 1: you possibly look at this? How could you lean not guilty?

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Speaker 1: How could you look at this and lean and possibly

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Speaker 1: think well, they did it that quickly how could you

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Speaker 1: lean not guilty.

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Speaker 3: See, I just feel like if there's stuck on the racketeering,

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Speaker 3: which is the most serious of the crimes and involved

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Speaker 3: some of these counts in that you just had to

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Speaker 3: have a co conspirator involved as well. So it just

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Speaker 3: seems to me that the count two through five are guilty. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it just seems like that has to be what it is.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, looking at your face right then,

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Speaker 1: and you just for whatever reason, it just clicked. It

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Speaker 1: clicked if you again, I don't think I said this

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Speaker 1: point clear enough. At the top the jury note that

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Speaker 1: they sent said that we've reached verdicts on four or

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Speaker 1: five counts. We on one. We have people who are unpersuadable,

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Speaker 1: who are unmovable on both sides. So that means there's

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Speaker 1: somebody on that jury who is so sure that he's

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Speaker 1: guilty of racketeering that they refuse to move. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: person is probably voted.

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Speaker 3: That person has not voted not guilty on counts two

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Speaker 3: through five.

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Speaker 1: That is a hunt, that's a done deal.

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Speaker 2: So that's why, Okay, that's why the despondent looks.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's why the hugging, because I think

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Speaker 3: they know at the very least did he is going

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Speaker 3: to prison, is going to stay in prison for quite

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Speaker 3: some time with these verdicts.

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Speaker 2: Now I can understand the racketeering conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: Someone might think he was guilty of counts two through five,

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Speaker 3: But did it really rise to the level of racketeering?

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Speaker 3: Did he actually have an empire? Did he actually have

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Speaker 3: an enterprise? Did he actually have a co conspirator? And

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Speaker 3: so I can see why someone said could say who

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Speaker 3: thought he was guilty on counts two through five still say,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Think he's guilty of racketeering.

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Speaker 3: Also, that's putting him away for the rest of his life,

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Speaker 3: and that might feel a little bit more ominous.

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Speaker 1: But their note suggests somebody is sure, unpersuadable and unmovable

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Speaker 1: on the racketeering charge of him being guilty. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: we talked this out because I was trying to find

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Speaker 1: a way, like, how is it? Is it any way

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Speaker 1: at the Nope, there's no way.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any way that sure he.

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Speaker 1: Was guilty of racketeering.

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Speaker 2: There's no way say.

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Speaker 1: He's not guilty of something else.

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Speaker 2: Here's the deal. Here's a question.

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Speaker 3: He could be he could be not guilty on the

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Speaker 3: sex trafficking charges, and he they could have unanimously decided that,

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Speaker 3: And then they could have unanimously decided that he's guilty

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Speaker 3: of the transportation to engage in prostitution. So he might

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Speaker 3: they might have unanimously It might be split.

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Speaker 1: You make another good points.

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Speaker 2: So maybe he is only facing ten years each.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if there's a myriad of possibilities, they're not

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Speaker 3: necessarily all guilty or all not guilty.

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Speaker 2: It could be a mix.

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Speaker 1: You know what I am Again, I'm not being curt

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Speaker 1: with this or because of the seriousness of what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here, But if I were a betting man,

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Speaker 1: I would take that scenario you just laid out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: meaning there's some difficulty with the sex trafficking. People have

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Speaker 1: a difficulty understanding why, Like, wait a minute, she could

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Speaker 1: have left any time she wanted to be kind of

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Speaker 1: a thing. And even if you're not okay with the

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking, maybe it's easier to say, okay, he paid

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Speaker 1: for these guys came and had sex.

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Speaker 3: When we heard the prosecution give their closing arguments and

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Speaker 3: throughout the testimony, we kind of really felt like that

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Speaker 3: was a slam dunk. While we were listening to the

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Speaker 3: evidence as it was happening, we said, kind of feels

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Speaker 3: like they totally proved that by the law that it

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Speaker 3: seems yes, right, So that wouldn't be shocking. Now here's

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Speaker 3: another scenario, babe. They could have believed Cassie.

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Speaker 2: Ventura and not believed Jane. There could be it could

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Speaker 2: split on that as well, a myriad of guilty and

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Speaker 2: not guilty.

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Speaker 3: But there are definitely there are definitely some guilties in there.

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Speaker 1: They got to be some gilis in there. So which

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Speaker 1: ones are they? Yeah, it's wild. So after all of

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Speaker 1: that scene, they had to figure out Okay, the jury

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Speaker 1: sent a note they have a question about what to

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Speaker 1: do next. So then the lawyers came back into the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: This is the part that's been fascinating and this took

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Speaker 1: hours today. They had to argue, fight over what's the

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Speaker 1: right language to give back to the jury right.

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Speaker 2: And both the This was interesting.

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Speaker 3: Both the defense and the prosecution wanted the jury to

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Speaker 3: go back and to continue to deliberate, and the defense

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Speaker 3: wanted to use even stronger language like go back, And

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Speaker 3: then the prosecution wanted to give an Allen charge, which

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Speaker 3: rises to a whole other level, and.

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Speaker 1: So it's very controversial. Some people think it shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: used at all. Alan charge is essentially a stronger and

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Speaker 1: amended jury instruction, essentially telling them in more forceful terms,

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Speaker 1: you have an obligation to go back there and get

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Speaker 1: us a verdict, and almost encourages them to re examine

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Speaker 1: their own opinion and not be afraid to change their minds.

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Speaker 1: And some people say that's almost like some psychological influence

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Speaker 1: you're having on.

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Speaker 2: The jury, like are you sure you're right? Are you

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Speaker 2: sure that's this decision you want?

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Speaker 1: Essentially asking them to question the decision they've already made

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Speaker 1: and why it's in the interests of the court and

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Speaker 1: the system to get a verdict instead of doing what

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Speaker 1: you believe me you are That's what the argument sometimes is.

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Speaker 1: But they didn't go that.

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Speaker 3: Far, No, And the judge did make a point and

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Speaker 3: to the juror saying, you know, if you strongly believe something,

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Speaker 3: no one is asking you to go against what you

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Speaker 3: believe is right and true. And that was certainly an

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Speaker 3: important part of the.

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Speaker 2: Instructions to the jury.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, the judge could have just sent them back.

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Speaker 3: He could have given them an all in charge. He

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Speaker 3: could have allowed for a partial verdict. Some folks were

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Speaker 3: thinking that maybe we might hear what the verdicts were

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Speaker 3: on counts two through five, but the judge didn't ask

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Speaker 3: the jury to do any of that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what you we get those verdicts.

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Speaker 1: They do not want a hung jury. Neither side wants

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Speaker 1: a hung jury on account because that means we have

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Speaker 1: to go reach trie over again, and at that point

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Speaker 1: he's going to be I mean, at this point it

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Speaker 1: seems like he's guilty on some count. Are you going

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Speaker 1: to go through and do all of this over again?

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants that, So yeah, to your point, both sides

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Speaker 1: wanted them to go back in and keep talking the options.

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Speaker 1: You just laid out what they could do. But the

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Speaker 1: judge eventually did decide what he wanted to do, and

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Speaker 1: he brought the jury late in the day back into

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Speaker 1: the courtroom. And we're going to tell you exactly what

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Speaker 1: he told them to do. All right, we have verdicts

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Speaker 1: in the Didy trial. We have verdicts on four of

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Speaker 1: five counts. We don't know what the four verdicts are yet,

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Speaker 1: because the jury sent the judge to the jury back

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Speaker 1: in to continue deliberating. But Ropes, he had options for

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Speaker 1: what he could tell them to do. He could tell

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Speaker 1: them to keep deliberating, give this new instructions, kind of

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Speaker 1: a harsher instruction about what to do. Or he could

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Speaker 1: allow a partial verdict. But he kind of split the baby,

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Speaker 1: kind of made everybody happy and gave them some instructions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct.

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Speaker 3: So after the prosecution weighed in the defense weight in,

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Speaker 3: the judge decided to tell the jury this when he

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Speaker 3: brought them back into the courtroom just a short while ago,

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Speaker 3: he said this, I received your note that you have

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Speaker 3: reached verdicts on count two through five, but not on

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Speaker 3: count one. I ask at this time that you keep deliberating.

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Speaker 3: And so that is what he told the jury. The

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Speaker 3: jury went back out of the room and shortly thereafter

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Speaker 3: they sent a note back to the judge saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: we're done for the day. And so it was determined

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Speaker 3: that they will come back tomorrow morning at nine am

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Speaker 3: to keep deliberating on count one and who.

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Speaker 2: Knows how long that will go.

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Speaker 3: Who knows how long the judge will ask them to

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Speaker 3: keep deliberating. Until they come back with a either a

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Speaker 3: unanimous decision, or once again, if they already have people

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Speaker 3: who say, I will not budge, I will not move.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the cutoff. At some point he

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Speaker 1: has to use discretion, But at some point you have

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Speaker 1: to if they say absolutely not and keep saying absolutely not,

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Speaker 1: and I've seen a judge keep throwing it back and

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Speaker 1: back and back at jurors, and eventually they just have

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Speaker 1: to convince him that this isn't going to happen. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if the judge has in his mind a deadline,

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Speaker 1: a timeline on it. They might come back tomorrow and

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Speaker 1: have more legal questions, be asking for more things, and

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Speaker 1: maybe negotiations start anew to a certain degree, I do

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Speaker 1: not know. But if I were a betting man, once again,

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Speaker 1: I always bet tomorrow's in that Tomorrow, on Wednesday, we

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Speaker 1: would get a verdict or at least a decision and

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Speaker 1: hear what's going.

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Speaker 2: On here, you know.

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Speaker 3: And there's been so much discussion about what the mood

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Speaker 3: has been like outside the courthouse. Inside the courtroom, it's

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Speaker 3: been described as tense and certainly building. I can't even

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Speaker 3: imagine tomorrow morning what that scene is going to be

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Speaker 3: like as folks are expecting. Hey, the verdict is almost

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Speaker 3: certainly coming down tomorrow and Diddy, you know, his mother

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Speaker 3: was in court with him today, one of his daughters,

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Speaker 3: his children have all been there throughout this trial. And

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Speaker 3: just to now have to sit and wait and know

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Speaker 3: that the verdicts are in recounts two through five and

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Speaker 3: you're waiting to hear about what they think on that

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Speaker 3: most serious charge.

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Speaker 1: That's tough. Your fate has been sided on four or

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Speaker 1: five counts and you have to sit and still wait

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Speaker 1: to hear that. You're not waiting on a decision to

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Speaker 1: be made, you're waiting for them to tell you your decision.

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Speaker 1: That just hits a little different. But wow, we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be surprised more drama with this jury from the start

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Speaker 1: day one, day two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've kept it interesting.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't ever actually gotten to the point where I

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Speaker 3: was born. It seems like every time I had a

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Speaker 3: moment to do something else, another note came in and

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Speaker 3: another question or another note came back from the jurors.

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Speaker 3: But I thought it was interesting the prosecutors when they

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Speaker 3: first learned of this split, that they haven't decided or

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Speaker 3: they can't come to an agreement on count one.

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Speaker 2: They initially wanted.

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Speaker 3: The judge to tell the jurors this is one of

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Speaker 3: their suggestions that the case could be retried if they

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Speaker 3: don't reach a verdict. I wonder what that was about.

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Speaker 3: Would they have preferred a hung jury on the racketeering

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Speaker 3: charts so that they could retriumph rather than try and

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Speaker 3: get them to come to a unanimous decision, fearful that

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Speaker 3: perhaps that unanimous decision would ultimately be not guilty.

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Speaker 1: Give him an offer, give him an offram. Oh, that

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Speaker 1: would have I should say, given him an off ram,

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Speaker 1: Like this is heavy, this is very difficult and emotional,

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Speaker 1: and we've all had some kind of emotional reaction to it.

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Speaker 1: But they're the ones in charge of this man's fate,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, to give them somewhat of an off ram.

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Speaker 1: I could see why they might have wanted to put

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Speaker 1: it in there and take the pressure off of them

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Speaker 1: to make a decision because of the decision maybe the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor thinks they do not want to make. Is that

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Speaker 1: one to have to put him in prison for the

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Speaker 1: rest of his life?

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Speaker 3: Wow? Yes, because just the pressure on the jury members

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Speaker 3: who don't want to change their mind. But pure pressure

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Speaker 3: is certainly powerful, and isn't that part of how a

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Speaker 3: jury works.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back and watch the people versus

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Speaker 1: OJ Simpson for somewhere you remember all that.

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Speaker 2: It's been a while, but it goes so.

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Speaker 1: Much insight into that particular jury as well. It's just

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what's going on. We will hear the

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Speaker 1: stories later.

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Speaker 3: But and well, I was gonna say there is some

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Speaker 3: interest because okay, we think there's going to be in

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Speaker 3: terms of what may happen if the jury somehow doesn't

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Speaker 3: reach a verdict tomorrow and say they continue to deliberate.

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Speaker 3: They actually had to discuss the judges and the attorneys

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Speaker 3: whether or not court could even convene on Thursday, July third,

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Speaker 3: because typically the court is closed because of the fourth

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Speaker 3: of July holiday. So the judge did say that they

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Speaker 3: could keep the court open if it's necessary for the

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Speaker 3: jurors to continue to deliberate on Thursday, July third, But

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Speaker 3: it doesn't seem like that's in anyone's interest. And they're close,

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Speaker 3: You're like, that's never happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some of these guys are telling the family

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Speaker 1: what charcoal bye? I mean they're they're cooking out, they're

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Speaker 1: they're getting ready for the fourth of July. This is

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well I think so the defense lawyer Marca and uh, okay,

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Speaker 3: you think I know. Agnet Pillow actually said he didn't

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Speaker 3: want the judge to ask dureors what they want to

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Speaker 3: do until the end of the day tomorrow because he

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Speaker 3: doesn't want them to feel rushed into a decision.

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Speaker 2: You can understand that.

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Speaker 3: And they're saying, hey, we'll wait till Monday if we

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Speaker 3: have to just let them take their time. They didn't

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Speaker 3: want anyone to feel pressured or rushed to make a decision.

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Speaker 2: To just get out of there. By end of the

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Speaker 2: day tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: We'll only got one thing to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: It's a big thing to talk about, racketeering, but they

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Speaker 1: are down to only one decision to make. Folks, we

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Speaker 1: appreciate you. I'll continuing to listen to us. It has

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Speaker 1: been a ride, but we are it's coming around the

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Speaker 1: corner in the next couple of days or might go

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Speaker 1: into next week, but either way, we appreciate you being

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Speaker 1: along with us. But for now, I'm TJ. Holmes along

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Speaker 1: with Combard to Amy Robach we'll talk to us soon.

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Speaker 3: H