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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know. The story

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Speaker 1: is of things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: welcome to an episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. An episode. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say another because maybe this is

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Speaker 1: their first good point. It's an episode. Yeah, I'm Devin,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by and and we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: an unsolved mystery. In case that's not how you found us.

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Speaker 1: This is a big one too. It's you know what,

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Speaker 1: I actually think this one is really really interesting. It

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Speaker 1: is not so big, but it was heavy. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: had a really hard time in the research of this.

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Speaker 1: Just there's so you and I talked about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: Is it? There's a lot of minutia in it, and

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Speaker 1: I did I started to get ahead. Ye happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the Kensington runestone today. R

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Speaker 1: It's runestone. In eighteen nine, a Swedish immigrant named Olaf

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Speaker 1: Allman found a two hundred pounds slab of sandstone also

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Speaker 1: called graystone because it's gray but it's sandstone, in Solemn, Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: It was found when he was clearing an area of

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Speaker 1: what some websites report is unclaimed, but upon further digging.

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Speaker 1: Was totally his property, but it was just kind of

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Speaker 1: an empty unreclaimed yeah, reclaimed maybe, um. But he was

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Speaker 1: clearing trees from it, and he fell a tree and

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Speaker 1: there was a stone that was entwined in the roots.

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Speaker 1: Probably again the stories and I'm inclined to believe that

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Speaker 1: it was entwined in the roots, but well, there's some

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Speaker 1: evidence to show that there were roots growing against it,

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Speaker 1: whether it was on the ground and they were directly

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Speaker 1: under or it was underground. It was it was underground,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't you couldn't see the top of it. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't see any part of it from the ground. But

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Speaker 1: whether it was actually entwined in the roots or if

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Speaker 1: it was kind of just nearby, hard to tell. And

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Speaker 1: this is this is not like a oh the Internet retelling.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. Literally, the three people that were

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Speaker 1: there when I was discovered, none of them can agree,

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Speaker 1: Like they don't remember actually what day it was found,

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Speaker 1: or like what time of day or what exactly they

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Speaker 1: were doing or anything like that. One of those situations.

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Speaker 1: One of those. So that's why you know, I witness

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Speaker 1: testimony is it's hard, Well, it's so varied. One person said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was November eight, and the other one said, no,

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Speaker 1: it was August eleven, right, eleven eight or eight eleven. Think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to tell, so we're just gonna say I

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Speaker 1: think it was entwined in roots in the fall of

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Speaker 1: the Fall of eight. He named this stone after the

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Speaker 1: closest settlement, which was Kensington, because I thought Minnesota he was,

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Speaker 1: but that's like the county area. The closest settlement was

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Speaker 1: town Village. I guess it was very small, large settlement

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Speaker 1: with that grouping of people. The stone was covered in

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Speaker 1: ruins and was said to be from about thirteen sixty two.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry the year at thirteen sixty two. It apparently

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Speaker 1: tells the account of some Scandinavian explorers, and if this

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Speaker 1: is the case, many of our listeners will have already

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Speaker 1: realized that means that these Scandinavian explorers managed to quote

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Speaker 1: unquote discover right the New World like a hundred years

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Speaker 1: before Christopher Columbus, actually well over a hundred years because

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Speaker 1: a little because I wait, if you think about Europeans

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Speaker 1: coming here, you know, like the British and everybody like that,

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Speaker 1: they settled on the coast. But we didn't actually penetrate

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Speaker 1: as far into the interior. Is this for a long

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Speaker 1: time after that? Right? So yeah, so yes, you're right,

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Speaker 1: more than a hundred years before, way back. So the

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Speaker 1: stone inscription has been translated a number of different ways.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to use the text that's on Wikipedia

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Speaker 1: to start with, and then we'll talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the discrepancies later. Got it. So this is our baseline.

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Speaker 1: This is our baseline. What I would say is pretty

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Speaker 1: much accepted as the translation. Uh, the sorry, and I

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Speaker 1: should mention the front of the stone and then one

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Speaker 1: of the sides of the stone are carved, so we've

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Speaker 1: got it's kind of a monolith in terms of shape,

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Speaker 1: it's a rectangle. We've got four faces too, you know,

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Speaker 1: the front and back that are larger, and then two

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Speaker 1: slimmer sides, and then the top and the bottom. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: And there's nothing on top and nothing on top and bottom,

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Speaker 1: nothing on the back one of the sides or the back,

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Speaker 1: but something on the well, I guess you know what

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Speaker 1: you'd call the front and one of the sides. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think it's the front, then they is it the

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Speaker 1: right side? If you were looking directly at the inscription,

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Speaker 1: I believe it's the right side. The left side, is it?

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Speaker 1: I think so? Okay. So the front says eight Gotlanders

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Speaker 1: or Swedes and twenty two Northmen or north Norwegian Norwegian.

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Speaker 1: On this acquisition, journey from Vinland, far from the west,

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Speaker 1: we had a camp by two shelters. One day's journey

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Speaker 1: north from this stone, we were fishing. One day after

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Speaker 1: we came home we found ten men red from blood

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Speaker 1: and dead. Maria saved from evil. And then the side says,

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Speaker 1: there are ten men by the inland sea to look

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Speaker 1: after our ships. Fourteen days journey from the peninsula or island,

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Speaker 1: year thirteen sixty two, the inland see referring perhaps to

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Speaker 1: one of the Great lakes. It's possible there's some theories

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Speaker 1: out there that actually this little parcel of land that

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Speaker 1: it was found on, it was found on an incline

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Speaker 1: or like a little grassy knoll area, and that it

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Speaker 1: could have it was kind of rounded by wetland's much

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Speaker 1: further away, but that at that time it could have

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Speaker 1: been that it was more of a wetland lake area,

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Speaker 1: so the waters had receded since receded, but that the

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Speaker 1: place that the stone was found was in fact a

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Speaker 1: small island on a small body of water, but it

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Speaker 1: could also be a great lake. It's not specified. I've

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Speaker 1: also seen stuff that to answer part of what your

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Speaker 1: question is is that to get there, they went north

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Speaker 1: of the United States where our borders are, came in

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Speaker 1: through Canada, and then that runs you into the Great Lakes.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the inlet or the

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Speaker 1: channel that you can use, but they use something like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, there is there was a

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Speaker 1: way to do that. I'm not sure that the lakes

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Speaker 1: naturally interconnected, and I should know this. You know, they

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Speaker 1: taught me the stuff, and I believe that for the

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Speaker 1: most part, they were maybe not enough to do large

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Speaker 1: shipping vessels like today. That was that man altered that.

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Speaker 1: But they were connected in some fashion, and so I

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Speaker 1: think that that is the research that I was doing

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Speaker 1: about how did they get there. It's that the lakes

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Speaker 1: are loosely interconnected, and so they they theoretically could have

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Speaker 1: made their way. Doesn't explain where the stone was found,

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Speaker 1: but it gets him into the area. Is yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a big kind of close to that area. And then

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Speaker 1: then they got to hoof it overland for quite a

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Speaker 1: long ways for me, A little ways for sure. So

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Speaker 1: this stone was found and then kind of held onto

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Speaker 1: a little bit and then allman kind of thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I don't know that it says it's from thirteen

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Speaker 1: sixty two. This was This was his actual thought pattern.

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Speaker 1: In case you guys were wondering, he wrote it down

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Speaker 1: in his diary. He said, I don't know, like it

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Speaker 1: was kind of from I'm kidding. Sorry. When when he

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Speaker 1: found it was he able to read the ruins himself

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Speaker 1: or decipher them. So this is kind of one of

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Speaker 1: the things about this story that's interesting. Most of the

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Speaker 1: stories that you'll hear there's so there's two camps that

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Speaker 1: you hear this story from, and they're both sure that

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Speaker 1: they're right. One camp is this is a huge hoax,

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Speaker 1: This isn't actually from that time. The other camp is, no,

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Speaker 1: this is real. And most of the people who say no,

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Speaker 1: this is real, they say it was real because the

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Speaker 1: guy who found it was totally illiterate, which is not

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Speaker 1: the case. This this guy omen was actually he was

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Speaker 1: a Swedish immigrant. He went to school in Sweden where

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Speaker 1: he would have learned runes. So word for word, perhaps

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Speaker 1: not were the US in common usage in the end

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Speaker 1: of the eighteen hundreds and Sweden. Still. Yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: what I wasn't sure because I had seen some stuff

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Speaker 1: that said he would have had books with runes, but

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have necessarily been reading. I mean, it wasn't the

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the number one of the languages, but they

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Speaker 1: were still it was still taught in school, kind of

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Speaker 1: like cursive is still taught in the United States, but taught. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they still teach it. Yeah, So it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things right where it's like, well, nobody uses that, but

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Speaker 1: you learn it. And well anyway, so he probably likely

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Speaker 1: would have been able to decipher at least some of it. Regardless.

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Speaker 1: It was an old stone he found on his property

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Speaker 1: and he thought, hey, maybe we should get this assessed

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Speaker 1: by somebody. So it was first assessed for authenticity by

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Speaker 1: a professor at the University of Minnesota. And it's unclear

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Speaker 1: if this professor saw the actual stone, like they actually

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Speaker 1: took the stone to him to look at, or if

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Speaker 1: one of these copies of texts written copies of the

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Speaker 1: text were just sent to him. That would be a

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Speaker 1: lot easier, and if it would be a lot easier,

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Speaker 1: but it's been mentioned that most of the written copies

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Speaker 1: of the text were kind of poorly and crudely done.

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Speaker 1: Well were they handwritten copies or were they rubbing? I

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Speaker 1: think they were handwritten copies, like somebody who sat down

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Speaker 1: and tried to write them, and that it may have

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Speaker 1: been copied by somebody who didn't actually write rooms that

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Speaker 1: often or didn't know so that it seems to be

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Speaker 1: there's definitely some speculation that, uh, the written copies of

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Speaker 1: these rooms were not good, maybe to the point of

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Speaker 1: detrimentally to people being able to tell if linguistically it

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Speaker 1: was correct or not. And a lot of the copies

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Speaker 1: written copies of these have like very big differences in it, uh,

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Speaker 1: lots of discrepancies happening. So I think it's likely that

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Speaker 1: he actually just saw a piece of paper. Um, but

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Speaker 1: he dismissed it immediately. He said it was a really

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Speaker 1: poor attempt at forgery. And like I said, I can't

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Speaker 1: tell with accuracy if if he you know, saw the

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Speaker 1: paper or not, but if you saw the real thing, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if it was the paper, I I just want to say, like, well,

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Speaker 1: how would he know? And professor of linguistics linguistics, yeah,

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Speaker 1: specializing in um, Norse and Swedish, Scandinavian ruin and language studies.

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Speaker 1: So he didn't like it. He didn't what next? Then?

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Speaker 1: The stone, the actual stone, as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 1: uh In, was sent to Northwestern University. The opinion there

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Speaker 1: as that while the stone itself was pretty weathered, the

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Speaker 1: inscription seemed to be lighter and done more recently. The

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Speaker 1: stone was photographed, and um, apparently some archaeological venture was

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Speaker 1: done kind of near where the stone was lightly but

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was any It wasn't like a

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Speaker 1: huge scale. They weren't, you know, thinking, oh, there's a

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Speaker 1: huge settlement here, we gotta dig six No. I think

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Speaker 1: it was just kind of some slight excavation around where

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Speaker 1: he said he found the stone, just to see. But

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Speaker 1: he had been clearing the land, so it's not as

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Speaker 1: though he wasn't preserving it. You know, he didn't find

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Speaker 1: the stone and go oh oh, no, I better stop

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Speaker 1: felling all these trees and make sure that somebody could

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Speaker 1: find something if there is anything. Oh yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: see A year later, Um, I think it was over there.

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Speaker 1: But that is literally what happened. I mean, they started

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Speaker 1: interviewing the three people right and as I said, like,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't even agree on what month they had found it,

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Speaker 1: let alone where they had found it. So well, if

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Speaker 1: he's if he's working the land and he's clearing trees

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Speaker 1: and he's changing the topography. I don't know if either

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Speaker 1: of you have ever been to a construction site where

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Speaker 1: they're doing major grade work. But you go on on

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Speaker 1: day one and you've got a good idea where things are,

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Speaker 1: and and then if you leave for a week, you're

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Speaker 1: kind of lost because by the time you come back

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Speaker 1: everything has changed. But stretched that over the course of

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Speaker 1: a year, and you just kind of keep getting used

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Speaker 1: to it a little bit by a little bit and

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Speaker 1: don't quite remember where things were before. That's easy to

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Speaker 1: understand why they had no idea where they found it.

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Speaker 1: True that I don't know if they all saw. They

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Speaker 1: didn't even see the ruins to begin with, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: when when they first covered the stone, you know they

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Speaker 1: saw they saw they did, actually they saw a part

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Speaker 1: of it and they tried to clear This is another

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Speaker 1: thing that affects the They the ruins on the side

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Speaker 1: were cleaned off with a nail. They just took a

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Speaker 1: nail and scraped away, which would obviously alter the ability

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Speaker 1: to actually accurately date when that had happened. Um, and

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Speaker 1: that's part of the reason that they had a different

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Speaker 1: color because they were freshly scraped. So again it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to tell with that if they just did

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Speaker 1: a really good job scraping the runes Queen so they

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Speaker 1: could see what was going on or what happened there. Regardless,

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Speaker 1: nothing was reported to be found from this excavation, exploration,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. And the stone was

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Speaker 1: returned to Omen in March of eight and since everybody

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Speaker 1: said it was pretty much just worthless, it wasn't really

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Speaker 1: an artifact. It was you know, totally fake. He just

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Speaker 1: used it as a stepping stone, uh, like the kind

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Speaker 1: of entryway stepping stone to his granary. Just stuck it

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Speaker 1: right in there, ruins down. He wasn't treading on the runes,

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Speaker 1: but he did. He just used it as a as

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Speaker 1: the entry stone. Well the backside is the flat side, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so of course they'd be the one he uses a

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Speaker 1: step Yeah, so he just did that. Yeah, don't get

247
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Speaker 1: no respect. Yeah, so interest waned in this rude stone.

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Speaker 1: But it had been kind of a big media you know,

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Speaker 1: been shipped around a little bit. Yeah, but there, you know,

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Speaker 1: there had been some newspaper articles. It had been kind

251
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Speaker 1: of a big deal. Everybody said, that's a hoax. And

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Speaker 1: he said, all right, fine, it's a hoax. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use it as a stepping stone. A historian. Mr.

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Speaker 1: Holland was investigating the possibility of a Norwegian settlement in

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Speaker 1: Minnesota and became aware of the stone and became, of

256
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Speaker 1: course very interested in the stone as it might provide

257
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Speaker 1: some I don't know, evidence or something like that. So

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Speaker 1: he uh went over to the Kensington area and spoke

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Speaker 1: with Almond about the stone, um, and they pulled it

260
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Speaker 1: out of the ground and he examined it, and at

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Speaker 1: about this time, the Minnesota Historical Society decided, Oh, I

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Speaker 1: guess we'll investigate this too. Okay, guys, oh I guess

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Speaker 1: we should because it's popular again, Yeah, that people are.

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Speaker 1: The fact that Holland got interested in it, he kind

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Speaker 1: of really drummed up a lot of support for it,

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Speaker 1: for its authenticity. He he thought it was real really

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Speaker 1: kind of from the get go, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of one of those confirmation bias things where he

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Speaker 1: he thought, oh, yeah, the Norwegians totally settled this area

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Speaker 1: way earlier than we think. And then he heard about

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Speaker 1: the stone and he said, see, it's totally it's real.

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Speaker 1: Of course that's real, because I've been thinking this thing

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Speaker 1: and now I found some proof for it. The Minnesota

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Speaker 1: Historical Society hired a man named Newton Winchell, and he

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Speaker 1: started collecting Affidavid's from the people who were there when

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Speaker 1: the stone was found and then also family and friends. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of trying to, you know, collect the stories of

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Speaker 1: it and see if maybe they had created this forgery

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Uh. And he was also a geologist,

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Speaker 1: so they thought that he would probably be a pretty

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Speaker 1: good person to carry out this investigation. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know why, but he interviewed a lot of locals

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Speaker 1: as well as omens family, and interviewed Holland and some linguists.

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Speaker 1: And the linguists pretty much to a one said no,

285
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Speaker 1: this is this is a hoax. But Holland and Witchell,

286
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Speaker 1: we're both really convinced that it was real. For a

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Speaker 1: number of reasons that will lay out in a couple

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Speaker 1: of minutes. Holland and Winchell definitely thought it was real.

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Speaker 1: The reason that they think it's real is because linguists

290
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Speaker 1: by and large are saying that this, the language used

291
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Speaker 1: on this stone is not consistent with with eleventh century

292
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Speaker 1: Scandinavian grammar, which is fair. The linguists were saying that

293
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Speaker 1: it was a poor forgery of eleventh century Scandinavian grammar,

294
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Speaker 1: and you know, uh, it should be fourteenth century. So

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Speaker 1: I'm not totally sure why it's the eleventh century that

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Speaker 1: they're talking about in terms of grammar. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as we know, language is a living thing, so it

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Speaker 1: does change. It allows people to be able to pinpoint

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Speaker 1: and say this is when this language is from, based

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Speaker 1: on the slang or the way that grammars used, or

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Speaker 1: cases or things like that in some In some languages,

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Speaker 1: that is true, I know, for both the written and

303
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Speaker 1: the verbal form. For some other languages, though, I know

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Speaker 1: that though the spoken version may you know, ebb and

305
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 1: wane back and forth and change, the written version is

306
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 1: not to make a pun here, but it's set in stone.

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Speaker 1: It is one way. This is how it's done, and

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Speaker 1: it's not built to be flexible, and it's not allowed

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Speaker 1: to be flexible. So I wonder if that's why they're

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Speaker 1: saying it's not consistent with the eleventh century. And I

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Speaker 1: unfortunately I read this as well in the research and

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Speaker 1: never thought to look into that. But I wonder if

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Speaker 1: that's the reason is that there was they say from

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Speaker 1: time A to B it didn't it did never change. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I think probably that's the case. I also think

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Speaker 1: you've to take into consideration how long this group would

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Speaker 1: have had to have been traveling to make it to Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: So I think they, you know, kind of backlook obviously

319
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Speaker 1: not three years. They weren't. They weren't obviously for three years.

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Speaker 1: But if you can say, you know, maybe fifty years

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Speaker 1: then or even ten, I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how long it takes Scandinavians to get across the ocean

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Speaker 1: at this time and then and then make landfall and

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Speaker 1: then make it all the way to minnesotaeh he was.

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Speaker 1: I could take a while. It would take it's it's

326
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Speaker 1: about a six to nine months journey. I'm ballparking here.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing to get from one to the other across

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Speaker 1: the ocean, and then from there the exploration process would

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Speaker 1: be long and drawn out. So I can see where

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Speaker 1: I could see where ten maybe even fifteen years maybe,

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Speaker 1: but I would imagine guys would get homesick after a while. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would think. But also they were here. If they

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Speaker 1: were around that long, you think there'd be more artifacts

334
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: left over. Yeah, yeah, yes, that's true. The stone's ownership.

335
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 1: You may be wondering, well, who owned the stone, because

336
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 1: Olman owned it for a while. Well, he owned it

337
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: until nineteen o seven, at which point Holland purchased it

338
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Speaker 1: for I believe it was ten dollars. Well it was,

339
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: you know, ten dollars in early nine hundreds, so that's

340
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 1: a lot more than we normally think of it. But

341
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 1: when you hear how much he tried to sell it for,

342
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,239
Speaker 1: you will galyze it was absolutely a good deal. He

343
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,679
Speaker 1: tried to sell it to the Minnesota Historical Society for

344
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars in nineteen ten. Holland and, well, that's

345
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 1: some serious appreciation. It is. Obviously they said no, thank you.

346
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: But in nineteen forty eight on the I guess I

347
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: haven't really mentioned that the authenticity of the stone has

348
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,719
Speaker 1: never really been like a yes, everybody says it's uh

349
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 1: this it's a hoax, or it's not. It's never been

350
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: agreed upon. It's always had this huge ebb and flow.

351
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: So it's gone through periods of legitimacy, validated by this

352
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,359
Speaker 1: fact that in nineteen forty eight, the stone was on

353
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Speaker 1: display at the Smithsonian Institute in d C. For a

354
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: full year. And they don't really they don't put things

355
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: they think are fake in the in the usually not

356
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: normally not Usually they've displayed things they've discovered later on

357
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 1: we're fake. But everything they can discern it's real. That's

358
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: the only reason to go up. Yeah. So the curator

359
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 1: actually said of the stone that it is quote probably

360
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: the most important archaeological object yet found in North America

361
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: unquote when it was in the Smithsonian apparently, so he

362
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: really thought it was real. Obviously, after the year long

363
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: display in the Smithsonian, the stone was set up as

364
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: a permanent exhibit or I guess, the only exhibit at

365
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: the room Stone Museum in Alexandria, Minnesota. I was just thinking, man,

366
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: this to be. It can't be the most exciting museum

367
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: to go to. Hey, kids, we're gonna take field trip. Okay,

368
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 1: next stop is this thing that's our only stop? Actually

369
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: a stone? Yeah? And next up a stone? Yeah? Yeah,

370
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of an interpretive center as well, right,

371
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: I mean it can't. It's not just a stone in

372
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: the middle of a room. Um, it did. It also

373
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 1: was shown at the New York World's Fair. It got around.

374
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: It did get around it. Uh. It also went to

375
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Speaker 1: Norway for a year or two. It's so it's been

376
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: around and again, you know, it's been this evan flow

377
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 1: of how you know, when people are like on the yeah,

378
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: it's real train and goes to interesting places, and when

379
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: people are on the no, it's fake train, it stays boring.

380
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: I say it's real. It's a rock for sure. It's

381
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: definitely rock. I would agree with, Yeah, that's it. Okay,

382
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: it's rock. So if you want to email us, you know,

383
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: we got to talk about theories. Okay, there's many of them.

384
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: There's a few, you know, my mo and I was

385
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: about to say, I'm looking at this, I'm like, wait

386
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 1: a minute, you broke this up into two very big categories.

387
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: There's four categories. Yeah, just look harder, Steve, there's four categories. Technically, yeah, yeah,

388
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 1: that's a technicality. Yeah. But as I've said, I will

389
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: say again, I will continue to say. Everybody who's ever

390
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: written about the Runestone is a percent sure that they

391
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: are right, that it is either totally a hoax or

392
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 1: totally not. There's very little stuff out there about somebody's saying, well,

393
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: it could be this, and I did find two theories

394
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: and both of them are good. I think that kind

395
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: of land sort of in the middle. But pretty much

396
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: everybody else is in their camp. All right, let's let's

397
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: camp one. Camp one is it's a hoax. Okay, here's

398
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: why this word that I'm gonna make Joe pronounce them

399
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna spell, but I I know I'm mispronouncing that. Well,

400
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: it's a Norse word. Yeah, it's spelled O p d

401
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 1: A g E l s e f A r d,

402
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: which was the word that's translated into voyage of discovery.

403
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: And apparently it did not occur in the Norse language

404
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: until several centuries after the thirteen sixty two inscription date,

405
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 1: putting it in approximately the sixteenth century. There's a bit

406
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: of controversy regarding this issue because one of the ruins,

407
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: which is the thirst room the theory as run it,

408
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: so it can be used in a number of different ways.

409
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: Ruins are kind of tricky that way. Ruins are phonetic

410
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: in that right, So it's not like each room equates

411
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: to one letter in the English language that spells out

412
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 1: a word that probably doesn't even sound like you think

413
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: it's going to sound because we don't say words the

414
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 1: right way. It's each room represents a sound. Okay, nodding

415
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: slowly in this student, Yes, I'm on, I'm on board

416
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: with that, all right. So there is a run that's

417
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: used in that word. Um, the thirst run is how

418
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to pronounce it, and it could have been

419
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: used to represent a t sound, which would have made

420
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: the word that we spelled earlier, the obstacle per credit card,

421
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: into a different word, which means journey of acquisition, which

422
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: was a standard word that was used in the century,

423
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: instead of the journey of discovery, which is the word

424
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: that it's commonly translated as, which wasn't common until the

425
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: sixteenth century. Okay, because as you say, I know I

426
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: had seen some sources that when I saw the translation,

427
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: it was really weird because it was it was a

428
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: word slash word slash word slash, you know, voyage of

429
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: something something something something something and pick it was like

430
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: choose your own adventure. Yeah, and so I will mention

431
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: that if this run is used to represent the t

432
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: sound it's used, it's the only place it's used to

433
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: represent that sound in the on the entire rune stone.

434
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: They use the more standard runes to represent that sound

435
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: everywhere else. But it is speculated that it was that

436
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: use of that word. I don't know. Maybe it's like

437
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: I can't spell available to save my life, right, everybody

438
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: has those words where it's like I think it's spelled

439
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: this way, which I don't know. Maybe that so this

440
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: guy had a little block when it came to that word.

441
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: And you're carving in stone. It's not like you can erase,

442
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: go back. You know, that doesn't exist. It's just whatever

443
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: it is. The next issue is the issue of cases

444
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: on the stone as No, it's that in like tenses. Okay,

445
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: I was just trying to make sure because I never noticed.

446
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: I always think of cases as upper and lower case

447
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: like we do in English, so that's why I was

448
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: just I never saw anything like that. Runs are very uniform,

449
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: so that's why I was confused by that. Yeah, it's

450
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: it's um like the you know, plural singular I we

451
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: view them. Okay, that that that makes more sense, and

452
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: I always struggle with linguistics, so this is why I

453
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: asked this question. Until the fifteenth century, there were four

454
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: cases in the North Scandinavian language that the Ruin Stone

455
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: is written in UH, and that was later abandoned for

456
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: two cases, which is simpler. It's a good idea, yea think.

457
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: So please don't ask me a lot of detail because

458
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: I am not linguistics person. I didn't want to delve

459
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: too deep into this because it would be an hour

460
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: and a half on is why these cases are this way? Yeah,

461
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: it's this is not such a inter shattering mystery. I agree,

462
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. You can afford to spend weeks and

463
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks learning about this stuff. Yeah. Anyway, apparently

464
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: the stone uses just the two cases instead of the

465
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: more common four cases, which would have been common at

466
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: the time. Again, not really, as Joe was saying, a

467
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: problem for me, as much you're carving in stone, you

468
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: got like ten dead people next to you. It's not

469
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: that long. It's not that long of a it's not

470
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: that long of a text. So while people who are

471
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: way better versed in linguistics than me may shout, yes,

472
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: that is totally shattering and it's strong proof against this

473
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: being real. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

474
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: It's what what was it? Ten lines eight lines long?

475
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: Is what this is? That's it. Yeah, it's there's not

476
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: a lot of room for messing around anything kind of yeah. Yeah,

477
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: so you're not going to get all fancy with it.

478
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: And by the way, they I don't think they had

479
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: the corpses right next to them. I think they were

480
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: like a day's ride away or something like that. Okay, sorry,

481
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: we'll forget about painting a beautiful picture. Okay, waxing pot.

482
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: You had a bunch of corpses. Yeah, apparently I don't

483
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: read runes, so I cannot confirm or deny this. But apparently,

484
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: according to some sources, the inscription uses the English spelling

485
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: of dead, not d E A D, but d E

486
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: D with runes phonetically instead of what the Norse world

487
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: would have been. Again, I can either confirm nor deny,

488
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: but this is something that people say. Yeah, no, I

489
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: also have to ride through the middle of that one, okay,

490
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe dead beats something else in Scandinavian. One

491
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,719
Speaker 1: would presume that the people who were translating it wouldn't

492
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: know that though instead of saying no, it's spelled the

493
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: wrong way, you would hope. Yeah. And finally, as we

494
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: mentioned before, the stone itself was weathered, but the inscription

495
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: wasn't weathered. So the stone was obviously a very old stone,

496
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: but the inscription itself looked much newer. So, you know,

497
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: the edges weren't as degraded as you would expect to

498
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: see given the age, and where that you would expect

499
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: to see on fine lines like that Steve's looking, and

500
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: not cut very deeply into the stone really, so you

501
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: would see a lot of where if it was exposed

502
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: to the elements, like on the edges of what's the

503
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 1: ruins that have been carved, they wouldn't it was if

504
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: it was above ground the whole time. Yeah, I can

505
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: see that. That's exactly my point to write. It was buried,

506
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: So I don't think it was meant to be buried.

507
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: I don't think it was originally buried. There's a lot

508
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: of evidence to suggest that it was put upright like

509
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: a like a headstone almost. Yeah, Yeah, so it was

510
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: part of it was buried and then the rest of

511
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: it got buried over time. You would expect to see

512
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: probably more where than necessarily you see currently on it.

513
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: But again it comes back to you know, they cleaned

514
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: it off with a nail, like who knows? Who knows?

515
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: So if this is a hoax, the next big question

516
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: is who created the hoax? Who created Well, he has

517
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: been number one suspect right then, of course is the

518
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: number one suspect, And I don't think it was him.

519
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: What would you know? The is one of those things

520
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: I asked this every time we talked about a hoax.

521
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: What are you going to get out of the hoax?

522
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: Like he actually made ten bucks? Well, no, ignoring the

523
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: financial gain, I mean easy trying to to get some

524
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: notoriety out of it, like I never understand what people

525
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: hope to gain from from pulling the wool over people's else. Well,

526
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: that for me is I think the biggest reason that

527
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't think it's Almen, right. I mean, he found

528
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: it eventually brought it to people's attention. They said it's

529
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: a hoax. Here have it back, and he said, okay,

530
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: I'm just going to use it as a stepping stone.

531
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: Then yeah, exactly. He didn't. He was never a vocal

532
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: advocate for its authenticity. He was always throughout the entire

533
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: time just kind of standing back saying I found this thing.

534
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: Is it? What is it? And people said, here, it's

535
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: this thing, and he goes Okay. You would think that

536
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: if somebody had the wherewithal to make a hoax like that,

537
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: they would be brazen enough to keep pushing that it

538
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: was real. I mean we see this all the time.

539
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: How many books have come out in the past decade

540
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: that are supposed to be pure fact and they turn

541
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: out to be pure fiction, But the person who wrote

542
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: it just continually, you know, goes on TV and does

543
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: everything they can to defend that it's real. Those people

544
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: and they've got big brass ones, they are just they're

545
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: holding it up and this guy didn't do that at all. Yeah.

546
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that if you're gonna if you're

547
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna pull off a hoax that involves carving things in stone,

548
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: to what you want to do is you want to

549
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: carve the eleventh fift Commandments into a stone tablet. I've

550
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: found the Lost five Commandments. That's what I would do. Yeah,

551
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: I know that's what you would do. Yeah, maybe some

552
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: cool commandments in there too. Uh No, I think it's

553
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I think it's definitely not Alman. I think he definitely

554
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: isn't the one. So who else created? Right? And I

555
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: think you know, the other big question is exactly that.

556
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: And the only other option is that somebody spent some

557
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: time created this hoax, dropped it off on some abandoned

558
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: land for a while because it was buried near a tree, right,

559
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: and the tree was like forty years old, and hoped

560
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: someone would find it and recognize what it was and

561
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: bring it to people's attention. So who was the historian

562
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: was so fascinated by the prospect of Norrisman coming to Minnesota.

563
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 1: Mr Holland, Yeah, so you suspecting him? I don't. I

564
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: don't because I don't think that he would have left

565
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: it up to chance as much as that, Right, that's

566
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: a big risk to take. And he wasn't that old

567
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: of a man. I mean, if it's if it's in

568
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: the roots of a forty year old tree, it's had

569
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: to have been there at least forty years. I got

570
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: the we'll talk about that, well, ballpark is we'll talk

571
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: about that. But my my point is I got the

572
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: impression that he was a forty something to fifty something

573
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: year old man, not an eighty year old man. Yes,

574
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: that's true. He was a younger man, which means that

575
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: he would have had to done it as an adolescent. Yeah. Well, okay,

576
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: so the tree itself was forty years old. And again

577
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: this is one of those facts I go back and

578
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: forth on in terms of if I what I believe.

579
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: But apparently, and I don't know how, because they uprooted

580
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: the tree and it was gone, they didn't count the rings.

581
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: I assume they did count the rings, so they said

582
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: the ring They said, Okay, it's a forty year old tree.

583
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: Most of the trees around here forty years old. But

584
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: apparently somebody came and examined the roots and said, oh, no,

585
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: the roots were disturbed about ten years ago where the

586
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: stone was. I don't know how. Okay, I don't know

587
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: how they would have found that out, But some somebody said, no, no, no,

588
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: something was buried here, something big was buried here, like

589
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: ten years ago, disrupting the way that the roots were

590
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: growing or something like that. I could see somebody being

591
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: able to figure that out today with you know, all

592
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: of the computer technology that we have, because I what

593
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting I'm understanding this to mean is that some

594
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: yo yo went out to the bottom of that tree

595
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: dug a big ditch or trench pushed the roots out

596
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: of the way through the stone, and then covered it

597
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: back up to make it look like it had been

598
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: there for longer than it had. Okay, that's that's what

599
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: I thought. Man. Roots, It's like a tree branch, you know,

600
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: it takes a long time before it becomes very very

601
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: obvious that somebody has tied it up and it's been

602
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, altered in its growth pattern. Yeah, yeah, okay,

603
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I don't know, I totally agree

604
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: with you. I um yeah. And I'm also not not

605
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: so sure that the roots would have survived that long

606
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: because usually when you clear land, you saw that, you

607
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: saw out the wood, you know, and take it home,

608
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: throwing the woodpile or whatever, and then all the all

609
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: the stomps you're throwing a big pile, you burn them. Yeah.

610
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: Oh no, I I absolutely agree with you. There's no

611
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: way that somebody could have unless they examined it on

612
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: the day. This was an affidavit from somebody who for

613
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: whatever reason, examined the roots on the day. Uh, there's

614
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: no way that they would be able to know. This

615
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: also worth mentioning this whole forty year thing. The settlements

616
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: that were in Minnesota in that area at that time,

617
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: they were very new. White people were buying large not

618
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: living there forty years ago, so interesting fact for the era.

619
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: So for somebody to just create this hoax, drop it

620
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: and hope that somebody finds it someday, hounds stone into

621
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: what could be considered hostile herritory and just trying it

622
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: in the ground and then right away, So that's our

623
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: segue into it's not a hoax. We touched on the tree,

624
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: which was kind of one of my first points in

625
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: that it's not a hoax situation, but it can go wherever.

626
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: It's fine. Yeah, we kind of arguing that, yeah, we

627
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: can move away from it. And then the knoll. We

628
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: also talked about that it could have been an island

629
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: almost sorry, the knoll, that the tree with the stone

630
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: underneath it. This is like, right, the sounds like a

631
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: very Lord of the Rings description. I think it's that

632
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: like bog and the frog on the log and the

633
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: bog and of anyways, Uh, it could have been and

634
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: likely was, in fact, an island in the middle of

635
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: swamp way wetland kind of area, assuming as one should,

636
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: that the water table was different in Minnesota six hundred

637
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: years ago because uh the water, the water could have

638
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: been about fifty feet higher than it currently is, which

639
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: would have put water surrounding that knoll. Okay, Does that

640
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: make it anywhere likely that a chunk of sandstone is

641
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: going to be sitting there? Though? I think there are

642
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: two possibilities that it affords. One is that the rock

643
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: was moved by water to this place, right with rising

644
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: and lowering lowering tides. So you think the rock was

645
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: just bobbing in the water and just sort of washed upon. Yeah,

646
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, two hundred pound rocks to float.

647
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: Just science, there are no nautical hazards. No, yeah, they are,

648
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: They totally are. It's that that in h icebergs the

649
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: same thing, right, No, I mean water has been it

650
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: moves things. It's course, it absolutely is. But also that

651
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: it could explain that they could have been camping there,

652
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 1: that that would have been a place that some people

653
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: would have been camping. They would have ended up there,

654
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: and that's why that stone was there, because they could

655
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: have gotten there with a boat. It also you also

656
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: got to think about it from and explorer's point of view.

657
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: I'm in this body of water, It's an area I

658
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: don't know. There are people who I don't understand who

659
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: potentially are hostile. It's safer to make camp on an island,

660
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: on a high ground, on the high ground rather than

661
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: on the surrounding mainland because it's nobody. It's harder to

662
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: sneak up on you. Almost impossible in fact, to sneak

663
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: up on somebody because you make a lot of noise

664
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: waiting through that. Yeah, and also you can see people

665
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: waiting through them. I mean, you know it's on a

666
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: little canoe or a boat or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah,

667
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: that's I think a pretty good solid fact for why

668
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: it would be there, except that it just sort of

669
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: happened to be there and they did some carbon out there.

670
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: Is that? Is that the idea? Yeah, it's yeah, I

671
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: guess yeah. Okay. The prayer to marry the Maria that's

672
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: on the stone. People cite this as something that is

673
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: pretty important little bit of history regarding its authenticity. It's

674
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: it's a Catholic prayer, but the Swedes of Minnesota, we're

675
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: all Lutheran pretty much, but for the most part at

676
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: the time, that was the prevalent religion at the turn

677
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: of the century. But way back in the day, the

678
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: turn of the Okay, just making sure I knew which

679
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: centree we were talking about here. So this is the

680
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: turn of the century when the stones, when if it

681
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: were a hoax, when this thing would have been made?

682
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: Because is it the turn of the nineteenth century? Is that?

683
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: Is that the year? Is that the year? I never

684
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: can understand it. I don't even understand why the hell

685
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century is in because it's the eighteens.

686
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: It totally makes sense. I mean, I get it, but

687
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: it's dumb. It's confusing. The further we get away from

688
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: the first century, the stupider against Yeah. No, but so

689
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: it's But an interesting fact is that Swedes of the

690
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: fourteenth century, their hundreds were Catholic, So it makes sense

691
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: that the prayer that would they would have had would

692
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: have been all all a maria, not that the Lutheran

693
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: version of what that might be, which I think is

694
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: an important fact. I also don't know how much you

695
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: know that as a Swede in the you know, nineteen hundreds,

696
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: that's fairly sophisticated fake. If it's a fake, yeah should know.

697
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: Oh it happens that these people were a different, totally

698
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: different religion than me. So I'm going to add their

699
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: prayer into my hoax of this thing. That's fairly sophisticated.

700
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: It's not strong, but anyways, I think that's a fair

701
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: thing to mention. What else have we got here on

702
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: your bullet point list of it's not a hoax? I

703
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: love my bullet point list. I love to make fun

704
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: of them, I know you do. Next is that there

705
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: are some scholars who attest to its authenticity. The not

706
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: the linguists as much, but historians. There are some Well,

707
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 1: I've actually seen some really interesting stuff. So this stone

708
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: has got is it mica that's in the stone? I

709
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: want to say? And they talk about the weathering of

710
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: it when you're you know, when you take a microscope

711
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: to it and you can see how it's weathered. And

712
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: they've actually figured out how much the difference of the

713
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: weathering between the grooves that were cut in the stone

714
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: versus what is on the face, and it's pretty consistent

715
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: with the thirteen sixties some year date that's on, which

716
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: is really compelling. I agree. Again, they're saying that the

717
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: weathering of the ruins, it's consistent with being six years old.

718
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: There's six there's a difference between them. So the face

719
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: that is exposed has completely weathered away. The mica on

720
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: is completely weathered out, but the stuff that's in the

721
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: grooves has about his shows about six hundred years worth

722
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: of weathering. Now, I can't explain how that works, but

723
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: that's what I read, and it was like, wow, well

724
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: that's really scientific. I'm inclined to believe that it sounds science.

725
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: It's probably true. I would have said that he would have.

726
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: Another point that people bring up is the dotted R.

727
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: I hate the dotted R. I like the dotted R.

728
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: Do you know what the dotted R? Yeah, but I

729
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: think they just must took their R for an eye. No.

730
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: So the way that the R run is done, it

731
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: looks like an R pretty much like if you we're

732
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: just going to carve an R in straight lines. Yeah,

733
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: in straight lines. So it's a've got a vertical line.

734
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: You've got from left to right at an approximate degree angle,

735
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: and then from right to left at a mirror of

736
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: that angle back into that vertical line, and then you

737
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: do the same thing to make the tale of the R.

738
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: That's exactly what an R is. An R is that, well,

739
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: there's a dot in the middle in the absence area,

740
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: the negative space, the negative space, thank you, you know,

741
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: art stuff in the negative space on the top bit

742
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: of the art. This is why I always described letters. Yeah. No,

743
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: so there's a dot there. And apparently this is a

744
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: thing that only happened really in medieval times, so the hundreds.

745
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: But that could have it could have just been a

746
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: defect in the rock face. It's you can see it

747
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: in all of the rs that are used in the inscription.

748
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: It's not just one little dot and this of it

749
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: because I've only seen one are called out and because

750
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: there's a there's a huge fight over that are, a

751
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: stupidly huge fight and it all all of the images

752
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: that I see are of a single R. I you know,

753
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: when I look at the inscription, I I think I

754
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: see them around. I mean I think I see it

755
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: in all of them. But I could just be that

756
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: could be wishful thinking. Okay, Because because I agree with

757
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: you now that you say, oh, it's always the same are,

758
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: I realized, yeah, that the one that they do the

759
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: close up of is always the same ARE. But I'm

760
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: pretty sure when I look at it, it looks like

761
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: there's the dotted ARE and all of it. Because you know,

762
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: I was gonna say it's a single one, because there's

763
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: always the what's that what do they call it? The

764
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: dropped tool theory? Somebody dropped a tool and it just

765
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: happened to strike there and just happened to mar the stone.

766
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm surprised to hear that there are

767
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: you saw at another place. But you know, I didn't,

768
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: you know what, I didn't really try to scan it

769
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: really well. I was just kind of briefly looking at

770
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: it as as reading the words that I can understand

771
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: English self. Sure, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you know,

772
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: I haven't really seen enough good close up photos of

773
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: the runs to really examine them closet problem. That's the

774
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: other thing that's hard with it is it's not as

775
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: though they're taking close ups of, you know, every single

776
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: little bit. It's just the you know, call out the

777
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: one room that has this weird thing going on, or

778
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: as we're about to talk about this one X that's

779
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: really interesting. It's actually all of the x is. But

780
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: this this theory is angle. It's angle theory, sub theory, whatever,

781
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: it's the knights templar angle or the hooked X theory.

782
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: I love it when the Night's get involved. Yeah, me too.

783
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: This this theory posits that the Night Templar, Knights Templar,

784
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: Nights Templar, we're running from something I think religious persecution

785
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: about that time for whatever reason. There's some for some

786
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: reason in the middle of the US um way earlier

787
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: than any other European descendants would have been. There is

788
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: some there's some stories that suggest that the Knights Templar

789
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: they were. There were a substantial amount of them that

790
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: were rounded up in the early hundreds and killed, and

791
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: then the rest of them all disappeared again. This is

792
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: one of those like that. I don't even know. That's

793
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: where the Knights Templar. Knights Templar are so popular because

794
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: there was a mass execution and a mass disappearances they did,

795
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of theories that suggests that

796
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: they came to America or the New Land and it

797
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: ties into this other unsolved mystery in the United States

798
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: called the Newport Tower, which is in Rhode Island, which

799
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: most people think is a tower that was built, you know,

800
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: after Columbus got here, but some people say was built

801
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: earlier by the Knights Templar. It's I didn't do too

802
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: much research into that. It's probably its own episode, maybe

803
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: someday if we feel like it. But so, but anyway,

804
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: that but the Knights Templar didn't speak Swedish or Norwegian,

805
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: right they some of them did. They wrote in ruins,

806
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: some of them. Yeah, according to this theory, I don't.

807
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: I don't know any of them personally, so I don't

808
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: know what they wrote and what they didn't write. And

809
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: if you did, you couldn't say. I couldn't wink. There's

810
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: this website that I put up on the research that

811
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 1: I know, Steve loved. Yeah, if you mean loved equals loathed. Yeah.

812
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: It was one of those black background white texts websites.

813
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it,

814
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: but it just I don't know why you did that.

815
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was a real source. Okay, that was

816
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: a mistake, Steve. It's always a mistake. Uh. It takes

817
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: aerial photos that they've enhanced of the area surrounding where

818
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: the stone was found, and they say they're carvings in

819
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: the earth and if you just draw these lines, they

820
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: point directly to the temple or the tower in Rhode Island,

821
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: and also all these other places that are totally knights

822
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: templar places. So the stone was actually just like a

823
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: cipher that the Templar Knights left for people. So it's

824
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: actually a coded message. Act. It is an insanely detailed

825
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: encoded message, Like there are numbers and coordinates and degrees

826
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: in all of this stuff buried in it. And I

827
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: was reading through the descriptions and I actually started laughing

828
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: out loud when at one point it said something something, something,

829
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: which is referenced in the room Stone, and I went

830
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: back to their translation and couldn't find that in their translation,

831
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: Like it's a it's a lot of leaps of faith. Yeah,

832
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: maybe it's a parody. No, no, no, that's a lot

833
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: of work for a parody website, those huge seven pages. Anyway,

834
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: I think that if they were if they arrived in

835
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 1: America sometime in the fourteenth century, is this the Night's

836
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 1: Templar fleeing persecution, they really didn't need to go as

837
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: far as as far as Minnesota, because remember, nobody in

838
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: Europe had any idea that America was here. Well that's

839
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: not true, but well yeah, but I means still, they

840
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: could have just chilled on the coast for quite a

841
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: long time. They could have. But you know, maybe they

842
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: were bored. Yeah, you know, maybe they just thought curious,

843
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: or maybe they were driven off of the coast by

844
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: the indigenous people. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the thing,

845
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: is that we've got to remember they weren't the only

846
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: ones there, and being an alien culture, they're going to

847
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: be a pariah. They're gonna be chased away every time. Yeah,

848
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: pretty much, no matter where they go. So this is

849
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: the reason that this is also referred to as the

850
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: hooked X theory is because the X run has a

851
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: very it's a distinct little hook that you apparently only

852
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: see with Knights Templar writing. Oh, I didn't make that connection. Okay,

853
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: it's a distinct style apparent allegedly, I don't. I don't.

854
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: I can't say for certain if that's true or not.

855
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: I guess. The last little interesting bit about the Knights

856
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: Templar is the Scottish prince slash Templar Knight Henry Sinclair

857
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: apparently tried to explore North America in thirteen sixty two,

858
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: So meaning why you got up to a ship and

859
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: attempted to crossover. Yep, it never was heard from again, Yep,

860
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: got it. So that's kind of interesting. That isn't true.

861
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: I don't know why a Scottish prince would write in

862
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: Norse rooms, but okay, sure, yeah, we don't even know

863
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: if you made it to America. Maybe that's what ascribe

864
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: wrote in maybe. So here are my two favorite theories. Well,

865
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: these are the ones that are not it is or

866
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: is not a hope. Well they are kind of well

867
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: under the main bullets. Yes, that I'm making fun of again.

868
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: This one is it's not a hoax, but it was

869
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: carved somewhere else. Well, it's a pretty good theory. It

870
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: is documented that Newfoundland was found by Norse explorers in

871
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: uh year one thousand or something like that. Uh, it

872
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: wasn't explored. I mean, it wasn't settled or anything, but

873
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: they kind of thought, but oh look there's land over there. Cool. Yeah,

874
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: I think that they've found some smart effects, haven't they. Yeah,

875
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: they have. So it's not impossible. I mean, how it

876
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: would have made its way all the way to Minnesota,

877
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: who knows. But it's not impossible to think that interesting

878
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: journeys had been made back to the New World from

879
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: Scandinavia over the course of the years, and that they

880
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: just happened to leave this stone. Wait, so if I

881
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying, you're saying that it is a

882
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 1: stone from their native land that they brought with them

883
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: somehow as a ballast or something. No, I'm saying that

884
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: it would have been carved like on the coast in

885
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: new in Newfoundland, in Newfoundland, Yeah, and then brought over, right,

886
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: So they brought it from their native land. Not necessarily,

887
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't even know, but sandstone possibly is

888
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: indigenous to Newfoundland's I don't know. Somebody go check a

889
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: website because that just seems I mean, other than a

890
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: ballast stone, which I don't know if they used I

891
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 1: don't know why they would have packed that stupid thing

892
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: all that way. They might have. They might have actually

893
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: had it for a ballast stone. But typically speaking ballast

894
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: and ships, back in those days, the rocks were used

895
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: a lot, but you don't usually use enormous ones like that. Yeah,

896
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: that's that's my point. Yeah, they take up a lot,

897
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: a lot of space. There's a lot of air gaps,

898
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: and they're really hard to get down below decks without

899
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 1: breaking your back. And you're in your ship. Yeah, exactly,

900
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: when guy slips and well that chips under yeah, but

901
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: so you know, but I maybe they just got it

902
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 1: somewhere in Newfoundland and maybe they were actually in places

903
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: other than Newfoundland, not just maybe they actually had other

904
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: parts of North America also, Well, I know that type

905
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: of stone is owned in New England. Yeah, so I

906
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: know that it is. It is found in more than

907
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 1: one place. It's you know, rocks or rocks. Yeahstone is common. Yeah,

908
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: and and that that kind of I think they called

909
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: it what a greystone? Is that right Devon? Yeah? Yeah,

910
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: greystone is found in a lot of different places. But

911
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 1: I just don't know, is it do you know if

912
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: it's found in Newfoundland? Yeah, it is. I just just

913
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: to clarify, in Newfoundland is like Northern Canada. It's like

914
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: Eastern Canada, eastern northeastern Canada. Right, I'm just I'm just

915
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: trying to figure out if for the geology. B oh yeah, yeah,

916
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 1: it's found all over yeah, so it could have been there.

917
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, so I can I can see it's

918
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: it's carved there and it's like left there, and there's

919
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 1: certain certain settlers later on find it and they just think,

920
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, if they happen to be Scandinavian and they

921
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: think I've got a great idea. Let's let's ship it

922
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: to the mainland, and I will pass it on to

923
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: other Scandinavians and essentially move it far inland as far

924
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: and known as we can, and and then whom we'll

925
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: bring it to a lot and say, hey, look how

926
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: far the Northman went. It's kind of kind of a

927
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: matter of ethnic pride. Yeah, you know, I can also

928
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: see there being a settlement, you know, in Newfoundland, and

929
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: then as they kind of migrate through, somebody's like, well,

930
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: this is important, we're abandoning this area, so let's take

931
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: it with us, you know. But as as you were saying,

932
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: they found artifacts, and there have been no artifacts found

933
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: except for the stone in this area, so that's pretty

934
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: big issue for me. Yeah. Next theory is it's not

935
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: a hoax, but it's not from thirteen sixty two either.

936
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: I believe this one. It is a historical fact that

937
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: ten Norwegian settlers were killed pretty close to the spot

938
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: where that stone was found as part of the Sioux Wars.

939
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: About this, the Sioux Wars that happened in eighteen sixty two. Vaguely,

940
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: that's that that actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah,

941
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 1: for me, that was kind of. I read that and

942
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's an AHA moment for me

943
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: that it happened close by. You know, there weren't officially

944
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 1: a lot of white people living around in that area,

945
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: but likely there were some, given that some white people

946
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: died in that area at that time. The carbon the

947
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: numbers match up pretty well. You know, it could be

948
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: that it's the typo essentially, is what this all boils

949
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: down to, Either a typo or maybe a little bit

950
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: of erosion, Yeah, something like that, And that it was

951
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: left there as the marker for their fallen comrades. Yeah,

952
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: that makes sense got buried. It would have been there

953
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: forty years, which would fall in line with the whole

954
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: tree root thing. Yeah, I guess that's what thirty six years.

955
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: It would explain the weird grammar stuff that's going on right,

956
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,479
Speaker 1: that it was a mix, because it would have been

957
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing that continued to happen. They're like

958
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: carving of ruin stones. Run stones were used as like

959
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: headstones and markers of important events. So it would have

960
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: been something that somebody would have harved as a tribute

961
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: and that they would have probably tried to be hearkening

962
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: on the traditions of old but probably not knowing enough

963
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: to do it accurately. Well yeah, well, I mean a

964
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: lot of people were not that well educated. There were

965
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 1: lots of people who could read and sort of read

966
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: and write, but lots of bad grammar and spelling and stuff.

967
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I would say, it's similar to people

968
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: trying to do Old English today. You know, for me,

969
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: I've seen those tattoos. Yeah, I mean everybody has, and

970
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: it's it's not good old English, but it kind of

971
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: looks like old English, And I don't know. For me,

972
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: that's it. That's my I'm done. That's my theory. Okay,

973
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: like microphone drop right now, don't drop the mic, please canace.

974
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: But no, I think that's a really solid theory. I

975
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: think that really explains it all pretty well. Yeah, I

976
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: think so too. Yeah, I'm with you. Look at that

977
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 1: wrap up, Steve, not convinced. I'm still not convinced. Why not, West,

978
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: what's not convincing you? Because if if it's a simple

979
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: typo of the three should have been an eight, Yeah,

980
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 1: that's a big typo. Oh. No, they're not like number

981
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: like English numbers. They're yeah, not Arabic numerals. There their

982
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: room numbers, so they're actually ruins. There's no like Arabic

983
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: numerals on there. Uh. And as it turns out, I

984
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: can show you a picture if you would like. But

985
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: three and eight they're like almost exactly like it's like

986
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: the it's it looks kind of like seriously, yeah, it

987
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: looks kind of like the P right. But so the

988
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: three the protrusion, I guess it looks like yeah, the

989
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: flag is half mass yeah, and the on the the

990
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 1: eight it's full mast. Yeah, it's like they've moved it.

991
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 1: It's like they just moved it down about ten percent

992
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: of the distance. You know, it's like our of the distance,

993
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: it's not even half very small. Okay, yeah, I'm I'm done.

994
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: Microphone drop boom. So yeah, I think we solve this one. Yeah,

995
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: would yeah, we agree, we're in total agreement. Wow. Well

996
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm actually just hot and tired. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you

997
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: can find some of our links on our website Thinking

998
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: Sideways podcast dot com. You can leave us a comment

999
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: there if he would like. Um, I'm don't feel like

1000
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: I need to tell you where to find this episode,

1001
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: because y'all know where to find stuff these days. But

1002
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: if you are unless you're new, but then you found

1003
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: us somewhere. Um. You can listen to us on the website.

1004
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: If you're listening to us on iTunes, do us a

1005
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: favor and leave us a comment and a reading. That's

1006
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: how people find us. That's why we're in the top

1007
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: forty podcast on iTunes our category. No iTunes, but um

1008
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, group and page, as Joe would say,

1009
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: and just friend us, like us. Lots and lots of

1010
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: stuff going on there these days. It's it's insane. Yeah.

1011
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: I really regret taking a day and a half off.

1012
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah you should. I know. I regret having done that.

1013
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: I'm catching up. Yeah, No, I mean I regret you

1014
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: doing that too. You can find us on Twitter. We're

1015
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. Uh send us an email if you would like.

1016
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 1: The email address is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com.

1017
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: You can send us suggestions, comments, just random, fan girl, fanboy,

1018
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: praise that, whatever you want. We also have a subreddit.

1019
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: Just just search Thinking Sideways. Um, that'll pop right up.

1020
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: We're also on Patreon now. It's a pretty cool website

1021
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: to help support the show. There's a link on our

1022
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: little sidebar thing, but you can also just go to

1023
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash thinking sideways and we'll pop right up.

1024
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 1: There's a little video explaining everything how the monetary system work. Yeah,

1025
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: that's that is totally optional, of course, totally totally option.

1026
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely Yeah. I don't wan anybody feeling like they have

1027
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: to do that, not at all. But after Donald Trump,

1028
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: well yeah, Donald actually has to I'm looking for him. Yes, yeah,

1029
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: So that all having been said, I think we're going

1030
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: to scoot on out of here, hopefully to someplace cooler.

1031
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: That's rocket. We'll see you all next week, by everybody.

1032
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: God bye, guys,