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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: My name is Eric Larson. I'm a poor adventure and

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Speaker 2: expedition guide, and in January of twenty twenty one, while

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Speaker 2: preparing for another expedition, I was diagnosed with stage four

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Speaker 2: colorectal cancer. I've come to appreciate the process more than

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Speaker 2: the outcome. In one sense, I parse down a lot

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Speaker 2: of the world in these really simple phrases. Training hard,

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Speaker 2: travel easy. The best way to be successful is not

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Speaker 2: have another choice, and so in one sense, the simple

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Speaker 2: story is also the good story. But with our culture

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Speaker 2: and how we view death, we miss the journey.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts

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Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

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Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

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Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and, more broadly, brushes with death.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

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Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

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Speaker 1: for some listener. Discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: It's really hard to separate my personal life and my

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Speaker 2: professional life. I think for me, I have always been

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Speaker 2: obsessed with the outdoors and honestly just camping. It's a

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Speaker 2: pretty simple passion that I have, and it's been that

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Speaker 2: singular focus that has really guided my life. I was

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Speaker 2: born in Wisconsin, a kind of a smallish town, white Bread,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the same kind of smaller farm town

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Speaker 2: outside of Milwaukee's. My dad was the director of a

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Speaker 2: nature center, and so you know, I spent a lot

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Speaker 2: of my childhood doing things that other people didn't do,

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Speaker 2: which is like going out and collecting prairie seeds and

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Speaker 2: banning birds and making maple syrup and identifying plants, and

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Speaker 2: you know, that was the focus of our house. I

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Speaker 2: just love being outside. I mean, you know, back in

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Speaker 2: the day, we were just off and doing stuff.

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Speaker 3: Nobody was looking out for us.

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Speaker 2: Very quickly, I got into biking, which I think for

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Speaker 2: me was my ability to just get out of my spot.

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Speaker 2: I got a paper out and saved up a bunch

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Speaker 2: of money about my first bike when I was thirteen,

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Speaker 2: and then my world just expanded. I would take a

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Speaker 2: map and I would go ride sixty eighty one hundred

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Speaker 2: miles around I mean, I wasn't calling adventures. I was

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Speaker 2: just riding my bike, and I know very specifically, my

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Speaker 2: mom always wanted me to tell her where I was.

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Speaker 3: Going, and I would write her.

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Speaker 2: Incorrect directions to where I was going because I didn't

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Speaker 2: want anybody to know, and I just wanted to be

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Speaker 2: out on my own, and so I just loved that freedom.

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Speaker 2: I've been doing adventures and expeditions for over twenty five

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Speaker 2: years now, and it's been a slow rollout. I started

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Speaker 2: out as a dog musher, just kind of fell into

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Speaker 2: a job. I was a whitewater guide previously a backcountry

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Speaker 2: ranger prior to that, but I'd always been fascinating by

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Speaker 2: polar expeditions and I just put myself in a situation

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Speaker 2: and got a little lucky where I started working on

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Speaker 2: bigger polar style expeditions. In two thousand and six, my

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Speaker 2: partner and I completed the first ever summer.

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Speaker 3: Expedition to the North Pole.

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Speaker 2: In twenty ten, I completed a unique world record journey

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Speaker 2: to the South Pole North Pole on top of Mount Everest,

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Speaker 2: all in one year. In twenty fourteen, I completed realistically

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Speaker 2: will be the last ever North Pole expedition from land,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Arctic Ocean, just itself is the front

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Speaker 2: lines of climate change, and that's where the most dramatic

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Speaker 2: changes are occurring. In twenty eighteen, I tried to do

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Speaker 2: a speed record to the South Pole. That was a failure.

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Speaker 2: I didn't do it, so but I you know, I've

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Speaker 2: been a failure many times over. It's a bummer, but

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Speaker 2: that's the nature of doing difficult things. But ultimately those

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Speaker 2: are all just steps along a bigger path.

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Speaker 3: There's a Thomas Edison quote.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I didn't fail, I just found ten thousand

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Speaker 2: ways it didn't work.

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Speaker 3: That's the nature of life.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my kind of philosophy, especially after getting sick,

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Speaker 2: is the obstacle is the path. You know. It's like

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Speaker 2: the good times are the exception. There's a lot to

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Speaker 2: life that just is enduring. There's a little bit of

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Speaker 2: an arrogance that goes into these things, and part of

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Speaker 2: it is based on your skills and knowledge and your preparation,

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Speaker 2: but there's also just kind of this idea that you're

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Speaker 2: in control and you've planned appropriately and so therefore nothing's

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Speaker 2: going to happen. And that being said, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of uncertainty. So I think, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest things. For me was just moving towards an objective

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Speaker 2: and an uncertain conditions and uncertain terrain over an uncertain

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Speaker 2: time frame. It's hard to really understand what that's like.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's the physical danger of falling through the

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Speaker 2: ice and having a polar bearer jump on your tent,

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Speaker 2: and that's scary, but it's a moment and if you

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Speaker 2: get through it, it passes, you know, you know, a

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Speaker 2: big siraq collapsing on everest and all the you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, you see the cloud of stuff coming in

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Speaker 2: and hiding behind a sirac and having all the the

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Speaker 2: spin drift kind of circle around you. Like, those are

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Speaker 2: scary moments, but they're so finite, and as you move

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Speaker 2: through them, you get better at dealing with them. You

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Speaker 2: get a little bit of gallows humor, you know, like,

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Speaker 2: oh that was close. I think the harder part is

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Speaker 2: living in this uncertainty where you don't know what to expect.

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Speaker 2: So I said, you know, back into the thousand and

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Speaker 2: six we were doing a North Pole expedition. The summer hadn't

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Speaker 2: been done. We developed a special canoe slad that nobody'd

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Speaker 2: ever used before. We couldn't just call somebody up and say, hey, like,

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Speaker 2: what's it going to be like around this time? Coupled

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Speaker 2: with that, we were in a situation where we couldn't

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Speaker 2: get rescued, So for about half of the trip thirty

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Speaker 2: days or so, we were just in a zone where

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Speaker 2: it didn't matter what happened, we were there. To me,

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Speaker 2: that's much more stressful than any of those other specific

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Speaker 2: moments because you're never able to kind of come down

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Speaker 2: from that hyper vigilance, fear, or whatever it is. I

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Speaker 2: have a lot of mantras and phrases, mostly because I

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Speaker 2: consider myself the weakest link in anything I do, so

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Speaker 2: I try to buttress myself and make myself stronger one

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Speaker 2: of those, and I I really feel this is the

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Speaker 2: best way to be successful.

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Speaker 3: Is to not have another choice.

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Speaker 2: And so I think with a lot of my expeditions

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Speaker 2: and adventures, what I learned early on is if you

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Speaker 2: are focused on achieving a difficult goal, whatever that is,

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Speaker 2: if you put yourself in a situation where there is

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Speaker 2: no way out it's sink or swim, you know you're

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Speaker 2: going to find a way to be successful. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of like the whole burning the ships thing. You know

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Speaker 2: there's no way back, the only way is forward, and

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Speaker 2: so when you do that, you you know you find

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Speaker 2: a way. It's not easy, it's challenging, it's emotionally taxing

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Speaker 2: and physically difficult, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: there's a path and you're in a situation where you

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Speaker 2: have to figure it out and you do or you die.

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Speaker 2: Before I got sick, it was an interesting time for me.

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Speaker 2: I was in a weird philosophical space where in one hand,

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Speaker 2: I was trying to push as hard and as fast

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Speaker 2: as I could. And you know, for all intents and purposes,

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Speaker 2: I could have been on expeditions or adventures probably nine

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Speaker 2: months out of the year if I wanted to, which

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Speaker 2: is a dream come true. But simultaneously, I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be home and you know, coach soccer and put the

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Speaker 2: kids asleep and do all these things that a partner

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Speaker 2: and a.

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Speaker 3: Dad should do.

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Speaker 2: We had been in COVID, and for me, COVID was

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Speaker 2: a bit of a relief because it was the first

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Speaker 2: time in five years that I had been around for

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Speaker 2: my daughter's birthday. You know, I'm usually guiding North Pole

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Speaker 2: expeditions at that time. Prior to COVID, I was on

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a tear in the sense that

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Speaker 2: I had been doing expeditions long enough where I had

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Speaker 2: some big objectives that I still wanted to do. I

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Speaker 2: was still taking like home equity loans out to go

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Speaker 2: to an art again stuff, so it's not like people

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Speaker 2: are just handing you cash, so there's a lot of risk.

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Speaker 2: I was also a little bit chasing my tail or

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Speaker 2: maybe just chasing everybody else, in the sense that you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're not moving, you're irrelevant, and you know, this

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Speaker 2: is my career, this is how I support my family,

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Speaker 2: and if I'm not doing things that are at the

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Speaker 2: leading edge, it's a dangerous loop to be in because

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Speaker 2: you just start pushing to do things for not necessarily

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Speaker 2: the process but the outcome. I was still in the

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Speaker 2: process of trying to be the best at what I

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Speaker 2: do in the world. I didn't want to be number two,

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Speaker 2: and I also realized that my job is very physical.

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Speaker 2: I was getting older, and I had a finite amount

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Speaker 2: of time to really be pushing that leading edge. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, the thing that I had been focused

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Speaker 2: on for my entire life, singularly to the fault of

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Speaker 2: everything else in my life, even my family.

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Speaker 3: Was becoming less important.

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Speaker 2: To me doing expeditions, this passion that I had since

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Speaker 2: I was a kid didn't seem as valuable in comparison

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Speaker 2: to being around for my kids and being a good

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Speaker 2: dad and a partner. But you know, as a self

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Speaker 2: employed person, when you stop moving, the money stops coming in,

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Speaker 2: and so there's also a lot of stress associated with

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Speaker 2: that for me, you know, like a as a guide

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Speaker 2: and somebody who's traveling and travel.

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Speaker 3: Shuts down, like there's your whole income.

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Speaker 2: So as the world starts opening up and I have

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Speaker 2: some clients to go do my polar training, I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of psyched just to be working. I was kind of

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Speaker 2: packing up getting ready to go lead a polar training

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Speaker 2: course in the beginning of January, and three days before

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Speaker 2: I left, I got a colonoscopy because I hadn't been

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Speaker 2: feeling great. And when I woke up from the colonoscopy,

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Speaker 2: my wife was sitting in the room with me, which

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Speaker 2: I thought was weird because it was COVID and the

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Speaker 2: doctor's like, you're not going anywhere. You know, in hindsight,

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Speaker 2: it's very clear to me now, but at the time

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Speaker 2: it's a little like the frog in the water going

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Speaker 2: up a degree, not really knowing that the water is

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Speaker 2: going to start boiling pretty soon. But in July of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, I broke my collar bone. It was this

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Speaker 2: kind of a silly mountain biking accident, got a concussion,

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Speaker 2: had surgery, and for about the next month, I just

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Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I'm going to start feeling better any

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Speaker 2: day now.

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Speaker 3: And I just never felt better.

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Speaker 2: And I started losing weight and my you know, and

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Speaker 2: prior to that, I had had some digestive issues, and

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Speaker 2: but I you know, it's I'm coming and going, I'm

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Speaker 2: doing hard things. I'm having you know, on expeditions, We're

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Speaker 2: just eating is not like the healthiest of menu is

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Speaker 2: reading a lot of fat and sugar just for the

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Speaker 2: calorie sake and the weight saving sake, you know. Just

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Speaker 2: that whole fall of twenty twenty, I was just like, man,

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Speaker 2: something just doesn't seem right with me. This isn't normal,

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Speaker 2: like people recover from this in a normal way. And

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Speaker 2: I still don't feel great. And that's where I was like, Huh,

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Speaker 2: maybe there's a bigger issue here. When I look back now,

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Speaker 2: I was probably having issues for years and just didn't

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Speaker 2: think much about it. I was forty nine at the time,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I should probably get a colonoscopy.

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Speaker 2: It just seems like my cousin had been diagnosed with

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Speaker 2: coal rectal cancer. I was having these digestive issues. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I thought maybe I had Parkinson's disease. My dad had

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Speaker 2: Parkinson's disease and one of the symptoms is, you know,

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Speaker 2: digestive problems.

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Speaker 3: And I just didn't know. I just felt like I.

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Speaker 2: Was coming off the rails and I just couldn't really

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Speaker 2: put my finger on it. And it was I didn't

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Speaker 2: have I didn't have a doctor. I had to go

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Speaker 2: get a doctor's appointment just to get the referral to

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Speaker 2: go get the colonoscopy, you know. And at the time,

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Speaker 2: the recommendation was fifty years old, and the and the

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Speaker 2: doctor was like, well, you're not fifty yet. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I know I'm not, but still I just don't feel right.

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Speaker 2: So I had to kind of convince him a little bit,

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Speaker 2: which is crazy. And when I wake up Maria and

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Speaker 2: my wife was in the room sitting right next to me,

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Speaker 2: I kind of knew.

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Speaker 3: I knew, you know.

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Speaker 2: The doctor came up, you have cancer. And I wasn't surprised.

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Speaker 2: I knew something was messed up with me. But my

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Speaker 2: first thought was, man, I got all these responsibilities. I

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Speaker 2: have to go leave for a trip in three days.

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Speaker 2: And the doctor he said, you're not going anywhere. You

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Speaker 2: have to have surgery. You know, right now, it's it's bad.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're just trying to keep it together. This

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Speaker 2: is the whole I was just staring down at my shoelaces. Luckily,

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Speaker 2: my wife Maria was with me, and you know, she

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Speaker 2: just rises of the challenge in a time of crisis,

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Speaker 2: and so she was on top of everything. And I

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Speaker 2: have so much empathy for people that have to go

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Speaker 2: through this totally alone. It's crazy because as again as

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Speaker 2: a healthy person, you're just not in this world, and

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Speaker 2: so everything's so new and for every situation.

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Speaker 3: There's positively negative.

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Speaker 2: And when you're dealing with the modern medical system, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty easy to say this doesn't work, this doesn't work,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't work. For a large part, I agree with

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Speaker 2: a lot of that, but then there's also all these

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Speaker 2: systems and infrastructure that just works so flawlessly. So as

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Speaker 2: soon as you get into this system, okay, you know,

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Speaker 2: like you're on a path and and you come into

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Speaker 2: a fork, and the fork on the left is no cancer,

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Speaker 2: and the fork on the right is cancer. And so

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Speaker 2: then you're on the cancer path. And then there's all

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Speaker 2: this infrastructure and system designed to help you get through that.

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Speaker 2: But it's just it's like pouring a bucket of water

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Speaker 2: over your head because it's just thrown at you from nothing.

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Speaker 2: He could see that a very large tumor in my

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Speaker 2: colon and rectum, but they don't know where it is

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Speaker 2: and the rest of my body. So then maybe the

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Speaker 2: next day it's come down and get scans and then

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Speaker 2: they say, okay, well this many lymphnodes are impacted and

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Speaker 2: you have these spots in your lungs and so you're

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Speaker 2: going from zero to one thousand.

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Speaker 3: In a very short time.

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Speaker 2: Do you just kind of start going down this path

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Speaker 2: of getting more information and processing that information? And it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: I'm an optimist. I mean I am. The glass is

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Speaker 2: not half full, but it's overflowing.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I don't really focus on negative things, but you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it's just like what do we believe? What's

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Speaker 2: our life view? I you know, if there's one thing

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Speaker 2: that Polar Expeditions tea, it's you're staggering insignificance in the world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're locked in this epic battle of survival

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Speaker 2: for days and weeks and months, and it's all consuming

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Speaker 2: it morning, noon and night, and your sleep and your dreams,

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Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, it's just this

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Speaker 2: arbitrary thing that you're doing. The rest of the world

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Speaker 2: is turning without you. People are waking up and going

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Speaker 2: to sleep, dying, fighting wars, fall in love, whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: and other people may find religion in those moments. You know,

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Speaker 2: my perspective is unique to me, and what I found

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Speaker 2: was just this insignificance, you know, and just arbitrary nature

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Speaker 2: of life. I very much realize that I'm not the

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Speaker 2: most important part of the system. It's a perspective that

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Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people have overall, at

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Speaker 2: least I haven't run into people that have that, because

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Speaker 2: we always want to be the star in our own

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Speaker 2: movie and feel important. But when you just start looking

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Speaker 2: at the nature of life and the amount of people

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Speaker 2: who have been around and have been forgotten completely, and

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Speaker 2: the universe and time in general, it's just hard to

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Speaker 2: think that I'm important in any of that. You know,

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Speaker 2: I also am dealing with difficult environments where I'm not

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Speaker 2: in control of a lot of things, and there's an

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Speaker 2: arrogance in a lot of our perspectives in life. We're

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Speaker 2: in control. We can do this, And so when you

305
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 2: ask me, like am I going to fight this? I

306
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: never once had the mentality of like I'm gonna be cancer.

307
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Speaker 2: I never thought that. And now I'm not belittling that mindset,

308
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Speaker 2: because I think your mind can be a great asset

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Speaker 2: to you in difficult situations.

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Speaker 3: It can also be the opposite.

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Speaker 2: But for me, when I was diagnosed as initially stage four,

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Speaker 2: everybody knows enough about cancer and know that stage four

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Speaker 2: cancer isn't good, and you see the end. You know,

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Speaker 2: I went into the doctor and the doctor said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're stage four, you're in palliative care. Sign this piece

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Speaker 2: of paper that says you're impalliative care. And that's a

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00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 2: that's like signing your death certificate. Basically from my perspective

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Speaker 2: in that moment, I wasn't thinking about like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: the most badass dude who's going to beat this. I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking how can I get one more day with my kids?

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Speaker 2: And you know, colorectal cancer, you've got you know, four

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Speaker 2: years it's science, you know, like there's the percentages, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, Okay, what age will my kids be

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Speaker 2: when I die? What will they remember of me? And

325
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Speaker 2: comparing that with like, Okay, when I was twelve, what

326
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Speaker 2: did I remember? What memories do I have? And so

327
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Speaker 2: my mindset wasn't about beating cancer or being tough. It

328
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Speaker 2: was just how can I get a couple more days.

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Speaker 2: I'm not totally in control of all this, you know.

330
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Speaker 2: One of the things I've learned from expeditions. One of

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Speaker 2: the many things that I kind of translated and not

332
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Speaker 2: necessarily in the moment, but maybe with hindsight, but like,

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Speaker 2: hope is a dangerous thing. Like hope can be awesome,

334
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: like it can sustain you, Like I hope this happens.

335
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Speaker 2: But if if you're broke and you hope you're going

336
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: to win the lottery and you're you know, the chances

337
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 2: are so slim and when it never happens, man, that's

338
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Speaker 2: the hardest realization. And on expeditions, like when we kept

339
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Speaker 2: when I tried to hope for improving conditions.

340
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Speaker 3: And something and.

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Speaker 2: A break to come our way and then that doesn't happen.

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Speaker 2: The despair and downfall that you feel in those moments

343
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Speaker 2: is debilitating and so translating that idea to be a

344
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: diagnosi with stage four cancer. What I wanted to do

345
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: was just put myself in a situation where I could

346
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Speaker 2: just be around the things that were most important to me,

347
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Speaker 2: which was my family. And so prior to all this,

348
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: you know, I was chasing my tail a little bit.

349
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Speaker 2: I was trying to be this thing that I had

350
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Speaker 2: always wanted to be and reached a level of success,

351
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Speaker 2: but then found this other thing, which was being a

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Speaker 2: dad that I never really thought about. I mean, my

353
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Speaker 2: son was born, was a forty one, so I had

354
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Speaker 2: a whole adult life of epic shit and craziness, and

355
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: you know, kind of got blindsided about how important that

356
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: was to me. You know, when I got diagnosed was

357
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: simultaneously at this point in my life where I was like,

358
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Speaker 2: hey man, this thing that I'm doing doesn't seem as

359
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: important to me anymore, and maybe my greatest gift to

360
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: society is just being a good dad. You know, I

361
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: wouldn't say I was searching in my life, but you know,

362
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 2: the word exploration kind of implies that to find something

363
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: so meaningful in a way that you weren't looking for

364
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: just makes it all the more meaningful. Stage four cancer

365
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: is the worst thing you could hear, but it's also

366
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: the nature of the world, and I could have been

367
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 2: killed multiple times in a variety of ways. It's just,

368
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 2: you know, what's the direction we're all going where none

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Speaker 2: of us are getting out of it alive.

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Speaker 3: And part of.

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Speaker 2: The beauty of it is for a big chunk of

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Speaker 2: your life, you don't think about it, and time as

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Speaker 2: your friend, and you have unlimited time and it's not

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Speaker 2: part of your perspective.

375
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Speaker 3: It's also the tragedy of it too, because.

376
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Speaker 2: You don't think about it and you don't understand how

377
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Speaker 2: fragile everything is. Kind of the beauty and terrible aspect

378
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: of life all rolled into one. I think with expeditions

379
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: you become very focused on time. I mean, we run

380
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: every day on a very strict schedule, but we're also

381
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: dealing with time in a way that we don't do

382
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: in our normal lives. We're doing one singular thing without

383
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Speaker 2: a lot of variation. For you know, like I said, days,

384
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Speaker 2: weeks and months. That's just not how the rest of

385
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: our world works. We have so many variables. We're doing this,

386
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 2: we're here, We're there. You know, like every second is

387
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: action packed, and when somebody doesn't text you back in

388
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: five seconds, you think they are dead. You know, that's

389
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: how our world works. And so when you put yourself

390
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: in a situation where time moves on a different scale,

391
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: you kind of start to see all this stuff. And

392
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Speaker 2: I've always said, like, the best way to understand what's

393
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: important is you remove everything in your life. And that's

394
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 2: kind of what you do on an expedition, is you

395
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: put yourself in a situation where you remove all the

396
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: comfort inconvenience. In our culture, you know, we're not exposed

397
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: to death and dying. It's not part of our communications,

398
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: it's not part of our understanding of life. Yet it's

399
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: the thing that defines us all and in the US,

400
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 2: specifically in Western culture, I can't necessarily totally comment on,

401
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: but I think.

402
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: In the US specifically, we just we push it aside.

403
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: We focus on these successes in this human achievement. And again,

404
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: I think for me, through polar expeditions and through expeditions

405
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: in general, I've just seen another side.

406
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 3: Of that.

407
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: How temporary things are, as well as how insignificant one

408
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: person is. You know, I also believe that human beings

409
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: are designed to survive death, not in the person who dies,

410
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: but the person who knows the person who dies. Like,

411
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: we've all been in contact with death in some way,

412
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: and we get through it.

413
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: We live our lives.

414
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: Partners lose spouses, kids lose parents, parents lose kids, friends

415
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: lose friends, and we move on. It's hard, it's difficult,

416
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: but we do it. I had an expedition partner that

417
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: killed himself a couple of years ago. When I was

418
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 2: listening in on the service, Darcy was his name, so

419
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: I say his name so that.

420
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: I can remember.

421
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: But you know, whoever was organizing it or the facilitator

422
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: was like, we're not here to litigate what happened and why.

423
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: Like it's but you get the time.

424
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: You get, and let's just celebrate that fact.

425
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: And you know, that really resonated with me. And I

426
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: think that that control is more of an illusion than anything.

427
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: In one sense, I parse down a lot of the

428
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: world in these really simple phrases. Training hard, travel easy,

429
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: Let's go up there and see what happens. Begin with

430
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: one step. The best way to be successful is not

431
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: have another choice. I find that those sound bites are

432
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: empowering and connective and so in one sense, the simple

433
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: story is also the good story, you know, or the

434
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: valuable one. But we miss the journey and all the

435
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: effort that goes into every waky moment. You know, even

436
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: just waking up in your bed and making breakfast is

437
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: like climbing Mount Everest for some people, you know, but

438
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: for better or worse. I feel like I've been lucky

439
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: because I am.

440
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: Involved in one of the most arbitrary sports in the world,

441
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 4: where every day is the same and the end looks

442
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: just like the beginning in the middle, and so by.

443
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: Default I've come to appreciate the process more than the outcome.

444
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff that goes on in between

445
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: the major talking points.

446
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: When I got.

447
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: Sick, what I realized is all that time I spent

448
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: engaged in these completely arbitrary endeavors actually had a lot

449
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: of utility, whether it's risk tolerance. Like I am, I'm

450
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: in uncertain situations all the time, and so that's what

451
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: a medical a bad medical condition like cancer is. You're

452
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 2: just living in uncertainty and there's a lot of fear,

453
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: and so you deal with fear as well. You learn

454
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: how to compartmentalize fear, not necessarily push it away, but

455
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: just understand what it is. What we do on expeditions

456
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: is we have this routine, we have this schedule. We

457
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: take this big problem and we break it up into

458
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: these manageable pieces. And you know, if you think about

459
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: like chemo, like that's a big hole process over many

460
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: months that you just don't know how your body's going

461
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: to respond or your mind, and so, you know, I

462
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: never once thought about, oh, you know, I'm going to

463
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: be done pretty soon. I'm just like, Okay, you know,

464
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: we've got twelve weeks here. I'm just going to get

465
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: through this week and then we're going to get to

466
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: the next week, and then we'll go halfway. And even

467
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: then it was like, okay, now I've got radiation.

468
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: I didn't allow.

469
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: Myself to think about any of these next steps because

470
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: it's just so overwhelming. You can't deal with that. And

471
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: so you just kind of break the big problem up

472
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: into into the manual pieces, and that mindset.

473
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: I think helps out a lot. I also think I.

474
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 2: Just think people have a lot of resilience, you know,

475
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: but we're not we don't we're not tested on a

476
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: given day about what we can overcome. If you just

477
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: kind of start moving forward, there's going to be a

478
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: path because there is this kind of resilience that we

479
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: all have that I don't think we're all aware of.

480
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: We're resilient beings, but we just don't. We don't know

481
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: that because we've we're a little more coddled now. When

482
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: you're engaged with kind of physically and mentally challenging things

483
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: that are overwhelming on a daily basis for years, it

484
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: just becomes kind of second nature. You're like, oh, okay,

485
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: here we are in another shitty situation with an uncertain outcome,

486
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: with the world going by without me. You know, that's Tuesday, Okay.

487
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: I can name instances where certain things happened. I went

488
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: to the doctor and I got diagnosed. I had to

489
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: sign a piece of paper that says I'm impallative care.

490
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: I had to go get a lung biopsy. Those are

491
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 2: significant moments. But did I become a completely different person

492
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: and forget all of the past. Definitely not. My body's

493
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: messed up. Yeah, I'm not the same person that I

494
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: was before I got diagnosed. I had fourteen inches of

495
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: my coal and taken out. I can't go to the

496
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: bathroom in the same way every day. I have to

497
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: get myself an animis. It's a pain in the ass

498
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: literally and figuratively. My life is forever change. But when

499
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 2: I think about it, I don't know if I would

500
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: not have gone through that experience and all that pain

501
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: and suffering and fear and everything. Like I just I

502
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: just feel it's made me a better person. Am I

503
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: a great person? Definitely not, you know, like there's still

504
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: room for improvement. Was I a jerk before? No, it's

505
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: just kind of another thing on this process. I will

506
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: say it's informed my life in ways that maybe other

507
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 2: things haven't because.

508
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: It was so all encompassing. You know.

509
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: There was now one moment where I was waking up

510
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: and like, oh, this is a care free Tuesday, What

511
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: am I going to do today? I go, you know, No,

512
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, laying in bed with a

513
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: chemo pump hooked up to my port, trying not to puke,

514
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: listening to Maria and the kids eating dinner downstairs, thinking about, Oh,

515
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,240
Speaker 2: this is what my house would.

516
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: Be like without me in it.

517
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: But you know, I think my biggest takeaway is just

518
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: this idea of compassion and how much value that has

519
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: and the compassion that was shown to me in some

520
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: of my weakest moments, you know, when you're.

521
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: Just your most fragile.

522
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: And someone goes out of their way.

523
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 3: To make that moment.

524
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 2: Better in whatever way, whatever small way. They might even

525
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: not be thinking about it. I mean I was when

526
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 2: I got my scans and whatever and stage four you

527
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: got four years to live. I got connected with a

528
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: really good doctor and he's like, hey, man, you might

529
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: want to check out those lungs. It might not be,

530
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: can't It looks like cancer probably is, but.

531
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 3: It might not be.

532
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 5: And so I I don't know how I did this,

533
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 5: but I was so focused on not interrupting my kid's life.

534
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: I didn't want him to have my sickness be the

535
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: defining thing in their lives, you know. I didn't. And

536
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's good or bad. It was

537
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 2: just what my mindset was. I didn't want to impact

538
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: them and take away from their joy of being kids

539
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: and have this dark cloud hanging over everything. So I

540
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: drove myself to Denver. Buddy took me to the hospital

541
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: in the morning, and I was laying there on the

542
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: bed getting all hooked up, and I just started thinking

543
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: about this procedure they were going to go in through

544
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: the side of my chest and go into my life ung,

545
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: deflate my lung, pull out some of this tissue, and

546
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: see if it's cancerous or not.

547
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: And we had been on a roller coaster prior to that.

548
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: You know, you get one piece of news that's good,

549
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: and you get another piece of news bad. It's just insane,

550
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: and so I was very both skeptical and just totally scared.

551
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I was so scared.

552
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: I just was laying in bed alone and I just

553
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: started thinking about, like, what's the outcome of this procedure.

554
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: I was so scared. And they were wheeling me in

555
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: and I just started bawling, and I was crying so hard.

556
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: You're just so out of control, you know, like you

557
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,439
Speaker 2: just you're a piece of meat, you know, just living

558
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: inside your own head. And there's all these perce you know,

559
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: like like I said, there's all these procedures and blah

560
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: blah blah. And and they lifted me up on this table.

561
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: I was just so scared.

562
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: But this nurse she just reached up and she just

563
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: took my hand and it was just you know, I

564
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time alone and on my own,

565
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: and I'm pretty independent. I didn't really have an affectionate family.

566
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: It's not part of my psyche, but that little gesture

567
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: of just like hey man, I get it. It's fucking scary.

568
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 6: That kindness has really informed my life, and like to

569
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 6: take that away would mean that I wouldn't have had cancer,

570
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 6: you know, but then I wouldn't also just deeply understand that.

571
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: I always say that.

572
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: I'm someone that learns lessons the hard way. I think

573
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: a lot of people probably know that just in their lives,

574
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: and for me, I feel like, you know, the best

575
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: way I learned is through the failures and the mistakes,

576
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: and so maybe it took this whole thing for me

577
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: to understand that role. And you know, when I look

578
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: back at my life and especially like in expeditions, you know,

579
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 2: when was the time that I was my best?

580
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 3: You know? Was it when I.

581
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: Was like, you got to be tougher? Not really, you know,

582
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: it was when I was giving somebody a hug.

583
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 3: I just look at the world through that filter.

584
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: Now again, I think what a lot of my life

585
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: is is kind of you know, I'm a slow learner.

586
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 2: I got to put myself in these difficult situations to

587
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 2: get the grains. But I think I'm a guy who

588
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: will wade through a mile of crap to get the

589
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: one positive thing. And this is where being an optimist

590
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: is helpful. Like I had to deal with the worst

591
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: experience of my life. Cancer is an atom bomb that

592
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 2: destroys everything that it touches.

593
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 3: Our family, the challenges.

594
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: That we all went through, our Maria and our relationship,

595
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: and how difficult that was at times in our darkest

596
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: of dark days. The intense pain of just everything, not

597
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: only the chemo, but the surgery and this terrible infection

598
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: I had after surgery. I couldn't sit in a chair

599
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: for five months. I was in so much pain I

600
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: could barely walk addicted to oxycodone. It was brutal. But

601
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: I don't think about any of those things on any

602
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: given day at all. And what I think about is

603
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: just that enhanced perspective of, you know, the role that

604
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: compassion plays, and understanding and giving somebody the benefit of

605
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 2: the doubt.

606
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 3: Stick of work in me. I don't need anything else

607
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 3: after that.

608
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Alive again. Joining me for a conversation

609
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: about today's story. Are my other Alive against story producers

610
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski and print Day, and I'm your host Dan

611
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: Bush we usually have stories of people, you know, of

612
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: people who's near death experience or they're brush with death

613
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: like transformed them and informed like a new sense of

614
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: self and a new sense of purpose and meaning, and

615
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: like solidify their connection with the universe. But I, like

616
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: I was, I asked Eric to talk to me because

617
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: this or is the opposite of that. His experience of

618
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: suffering and putting himself in these extremely adverse, life threatening

619
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: conditions informed how he dealt with his battle with cancer.

620
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,959
Speaker 7: So I was very curious. I was like, well, how

621
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 7: did that inform your understanding or your you know, when

622
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 7: you were faced with stage four colorectal cancer.

623
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: And what he said.

624
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 7: Was shocking because I expected I expected Eric to say,

625
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 7: you know, it was all about attitude or some story

626
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 7: where his positivity, his optimism, his resilience, his sort of confidence.

627
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 7: You know, I expected him to tell about how he

628
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 7: you know, his internal monologu or his narrative was positive

629
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 7: and so therefore, you know, it gave him because he

630
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 7: hears stories about that people saying really positive during their

631
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 7: cancer their battles with cancer, and the ones that are

632
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 7: more positive tend to have better outcomes and so forth.

633
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 7: So I was thinking maybe that was what he would say,

634
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 7: but he's he didn't. He said, no, life is harsh.

635
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 7: You don't know what's coming.

636
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 2: There is no.

637
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:16,959
Speaker 7: Certainty. You know, the universe is completely fucking indifferent and and.

638
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: Hope will kill you.

639
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 7: I was just stunned by his Here again he's another

640
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 7: person who said he would he would not take back

641
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 7: his experience. He said, humans are innately resilient. We have

642
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 7: the capacity to endure pain and suffering and doubt.

643
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: We just have that.

644
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 7: And so his his whole philosophy is like we should

645
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 7: get we should just lean into suffering. We should just

646
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 7: become familiar with it. We should become comfortable with it,

647
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 7: because that's that's that's how we grow and that's part

648
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 7: of life.

649
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 8: Oh, I mean, it's it's I think, I think something

650
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 8: that I walked away from, and it is he was.

651
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 8: It was just, uh, it was him talking about how

652
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 8: like go on these you know, thirty day expeditions, and

653
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 8: how it was the same thing and you just focused

654
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 8: on like the little thing that you had in front

655
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 8: of you that you did over and over and over

656
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 8: and over, day after day, minute by minute, and that

657
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 8: was what the way you get through it is by

658
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 8: kind of just focusing on what is immediately in front

659
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 8: of you and what you can deal with. And I

660
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 8: think that that was just something that that's just a

661
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 8: very good, a very good life lesson in general. And

662
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 8: it sounds like he applied that definitely to the cancer,

663
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 8: just dealing with the thing that's right in front of

664
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 8: you and just being hyper focused on that thing. And

665
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 8: that's how you that's how you survive, is by doing

666
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 8: the same little thing over and over and and I

667
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 8: think that that. I mean, Jesus, if that ain't a

668
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 8: metaphor for life, you know, I mean, like.

669
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 9: Well, that's the same, that's the same thing that Anely's

670
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 9: Cochrane said in her story about the fires and Lahaina, Hawaii.

671
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 9: You know, she said that she just would think about

672
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 9: what was two feet in front of her. The story

673
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 9: about the Dave Meadows who just survived the tsunami in Thailand,

674
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 9: he was I could only think about what was thirty

675
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 9: feet in.

676
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 3: Front of me.

677
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 9: When Eric says, you know, you know, going on these

678
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 9: expeditions taught him not to think, to worry about, or

679
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 9: to put too much faith into in hope, because if

680
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 9: you put your faith in hope and you come around

681
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 9: the bend and that thing you're hoping for is not there.

682
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: It just right totally destroys you.

683
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 8: Yeah.

684
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

685
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 7: He talked a lot about breaking big problems into small steps,

686
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 7: and I found that that's not only for my lack

687
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 7: of executive functioning. If I look at the big picture,

688
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 7: I get overwhelmed and I literally have to make a

689
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 7: list and then I have to just kind of cover

690
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 7: everything up except the one thing at the top of

691
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 7: the list, and then I'm going across it off and

692
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 7: move to the next thing. I'm multitasking is not something

693
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 7: I'm capable of. I used to think I was.

694
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: I'm terrible at it.

695
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 8: I'm terrible at it. I still think that I'm killing

696
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 8: it most of the time.

697
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: But I'm not.

698
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 6: I'm not.

699
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 9: This story was I mean, this story really spoke to me,

700
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 9: maybe more than a lot of the others. I just

701
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 9: the story really spoke to me, because you know, I

702
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 9: think those of us who picked difficult career fields, nobody

703
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 9: on this call trying to make it in. Trying to

704
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 9: make a career out of taking pictures and writing stories

705
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 9: and making videos and films is about like trying to

706
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 9: make a career out of climbing mountains, and you do

707
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 9: become very focused on man, if I could make this film,

708
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 9: or if I could get this client, or if I

709
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 9: could write this piece for this magazine, And that becomes

710
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 9: a way to define who you are.

711
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 2: And it does become about your little notches that.

712
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 9: You put on your belt rather than the process itself

713
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 9: of just living your life and being able to create.

714
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 9: And when he talked about COVID being a relief because

715
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 9: he was able to spend time with his daughter, I

716
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 9: just remember that myself. When COVID came, it was like,

717
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 9: I don't have to be on the hustle right now,

718
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 9: you know, I can give myself permission to be with

719
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 9: my family. And it's I think that's the thing I

720
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 9: took out of this story more than anything. Even if

721
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 9: you got four years to live because you have colorectal cancer,

722
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 9: those are moments you can really dial down and be

723
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 9: with your family and really be part of the process,

724
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 9: you know, rather than trying to check a box, you know,

725
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 9: trying to achieve something.

726
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 7: There were really two takeaways that I think the story

727
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 7: you know gave to me, or that I walked away

728
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 7: with that idea that compassion is the connective tissue of

729
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 7: life and death. So like again, he didn't walk away

730
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 7: with this profound sense of God's unconditional love. He walked

731
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 7: away with this view of the staggering and difference of

732
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 7: the universe, but is isolated and cold as that sort

733
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 7: of indifference of the universe is. He said that there's

734
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 7: utility in it. It takes shape and our ability to

735
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 7: be compassionate, you know, it forces compassion and our understanding

736
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 7: towards one another, and that the loneliness and isolation in

737
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 7: time and space is necessary.

738
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 3: For that compassion.

739
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 7: It's the driving force of humanity and sort of what

740
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 7: interconnects us and keeps us. And it's an idea that

741
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 7: continues to a lot of these stories. People end up

742
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 7: with the same thing of the takeaway is reflected again

743
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 7: and again, where get myself Once I'm removed my ego

744
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 7: from the city suation which I Once I get out

745
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 7: of the the idea of myself and get beyond that,

746
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 7: then you're then they realize that that it's not about

747
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 7: sort of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and the self,

748
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 7: you know, the the resilience or sort of the the

749
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 7: self confidence that we all try to imbue upon our

750
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 7: kids of like, you know, self reliance. I guess I'm

751
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 7: trying to say that's valuable when there's nothing else absolutely

752
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 7: to keep you alive. But the more important element to

753
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 7: our experience is one of compassion and of helping each

754
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 7: other and of connectivity. And I think that that's that

755
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 7: was his takeaway. He's like, you know, I've spent my

756
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 7: life out here alone, in the wilderness and in the

757
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 7: in the frozen tundra, uh in the extremes conditions of

758
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 7: our planet. And and once he got cancer, he was like,

759
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 7: I just want to be with my kids. I just

760
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 7: want to spend time with those that I love and

761
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 7: that love me. And the other thing that I took

762
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 7: from his story is that, you know, it echoes other

763
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 7: stories too, that the idea that we this is not

764
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 7: that we're here to suffer, but that suffering, you know,

765
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 7: overcoming obstacles, challenges, trials, just like in the stories that

766
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 7: we write as filmmakers. It's not that we have to suffer,

767
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 7: but that growth. For growth to happen, suffering is necessary.

768
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: Well.

769
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 9: And I think that that drive to define yourself by

770
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 9: whatever your career path is, and however you define personal

771
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 9: excellence in that field I do think that's an important

772
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 9: drive to have at a young age, you know, And

773
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 9: I think it drives you into whether you achieve the

774
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 9: things that you set out to do or not. I mean,

775
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 9: I think it sets you on a path where you

776
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 9: do face those challenges, and I think that's important part

777
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 9: of growing. I remember I was watching the Olympics one

778
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 9: year and there was like a they were talking to

779
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 9: some middle aged athletes who had won a gold when

780
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 9: she was like eighteen or something, and she said, they

781
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 9: were like, do you miss the competition? She said, no,

782
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 9: I feel like accomplished what I said on this what

783
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 9: I said on this earth to do. And I thought, gosh,

784
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 9: wouldn't that be great at age eighteen, I feel like

785
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 9: you were You've accomplished what you set out to do.

786
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 9: But I think you're I just think you know, you're.

787
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 9: Your desires and needs definitely change as you get older.

788
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 9: I mean, the idea of accomplishing some of the things

789
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 9: that were really important to you when you're young. As

790
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 9: you get older, as you have your family, you know,

791
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 9: you start to realize they're not quite as pressing, you know.

792
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 9: Like I remember, I was never one who was like, oh,

793
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 9: I just need to have a family, and I need

794
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 9: to get married. And I remember when I did, just

795
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 9: looking at my wife and saying, you know, you're a

796
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 9: gift that I never asked for. I never I wanted

797
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 9: to have a film and sun dance, or I wanted

798
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 9: to publish a book or something, and those things didn't

799
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 9: happen for me. But I got this wife and it

800
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 9: was better than anything I could have imagined, you know.

801
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 9: And then now I have daughters, and it's like it's

802
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 9: what Eric describes, it's like, you know, he he accomplished

803
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 9: a lot of his professional goals, and he still felt

804
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 9: driven to do more and this slowed him down to

805
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:26,240
Speaker 9: just enjoy the process. He enjoy and I family, He totally.

806
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 7: He and I had a like when we first did

807
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 7: our initial call before the interview, he and I really

808
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 7: had a We really connected because he's fifty three years old.

809
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 7: He's the exact same age that I am, and he,

810
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 7: you know, we share a lot in common, you know,

811
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,479
Speaker 7: as in terms of just where we are in life

812
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 7: and what's left of life. You know, there's a ticking

813
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 7: clock and what are you going to do with it?

814
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: And he was just a very compassionate guy and very

815
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: relatable in fact, he invited me to go on one

816
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: of his Polar Expedition training courses. Like anyway, I just

817
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: I really, you know, when I was done talking to him,

818
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: I felt I felt like I found a friend. And

819
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: I just love that he's such a realist. He's not

820
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: walking away going I have figured out that there is

821
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: love in the universe, and that love is the texture

822
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: of the matrix of all things. And then when we

823
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: should not fear death and that you know, he walked

824
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: away with a very different kind of His ability to

825
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: survive cancer had to do with a very different, more practical,

826
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: more utilitarian sort of.

827
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 7: Strategy. And it didn't make him suddenly see God, you know,

828
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 7: it just made him understand that whether you see God

829
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 7: or not, compassion is ultimately and connection or ultimately the

830
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 7: things that we really need to thrive.

831
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

832
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 8: I think a lot of these are a lot of

833
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 8: these are very uplifting. But I think the ones that

834
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 8: really kind of get me is when is the ones

835
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 8: where you're not offered proof of an afterlife, you're not

836
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 8: offered anything like that. You're basically just like go through

837
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 8: this and you recognize how close you were, and it's

838
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 8: just like you just kind of like go, uh, okay,

839
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 8: well I have to draw my own conclusions here. Nobody's

840
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 8: gonna like hand me this. Like there's not some white

841
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 8: light that I get to walk into and like no,

842
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 8: it's gonna be okay. It's like I just kind of

843
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 8: have to keep guessing and just just keep like moving

844
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 8: forward based on the information that I have in front

845
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 8: of me, put in a new context. And I think

846
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 8: that I think that's really interesting. I think there's there's

847
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 8: something like super I mean, it's fair, it's it's super huge.

848
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 8: It's just very human, you know, mm hmm, so absolutely.

849
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 9: I just remember, like when I was younger, just thinking

850
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 9: of the idea of sitting at home with my family

851
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 9: and all the things you hear about the comment the

852
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 9: contentment of being with your family and middle age and

853
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 9: now I'm going to be with my I just remember

854
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 9: just thinking like how corny and contrite and how boring

855
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 9: that would be. And and I just you know, like

856
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 9: he talks about like if you're not you know, what

857
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 9: do you say, If you're not moving, you're irrelevant. If

858
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 9: you're not doing things in the leading edge, you're irrelevant.

859
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 3: You know.

860
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 9: Whether that was in his field, yeah, in his field

861
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 9: and in our field, and even in your social life

862
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 9: and going out and having fun, and you get to

863
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 9: a point where you're just like, you know, if I

864
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 9: don't go to another art party or see another band,

865
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 9: or have to pack my car with gear for a

866
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 9: shoot again, I'll be okay with that. I'm happy to

867
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 9: just sit with my family. And I remember the real

868
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 9: bridge was when I turned fifty, because I remember I

869
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 9: woke up that morning and logged into Facebook and somebody

870
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 9: was starting some kind of political argument or something, and

871
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 9: I was about to chime in, and I'm like.

872
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 4: I'm fifty, I don't really I don't really care whatever.

873
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 10: You know.

874
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 9: I think that's when you start to wear the you know,

875
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 9: world's number one Grandpa hat, and you start to not

876
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 9: worry about what shoes you're you're wearing out. It's just

877
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 9: like you're just like, I'm content.

878
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 7: It's interesting that it takes us that long to the

879
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 7: meturation rate is fifty years, to get to the point

880
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 7: where we don't care about external validation.

881
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

882
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 9: I remember reading an interview with like one of the

883
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 9: guys from a Clash and he said, you know, we

884
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 9: had the number one critically acclaimed album of the eighties,

885
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 9: and now I paint houses because I can't get a job.

886
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 9: And I was like, but you had the number one

887
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 9: critically acclaimed album of the eighties. I mean, that's what

888
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 9: life is for. And I'm like, if I had a

889
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 9: number one album critically acclaimed album of the eighties at

890
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 9: this point in my life, I'd be like, Okay, I

891
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 9: think I'd like to go paint.

892
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 2: My house and maybe with my daughter.

893
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 9: I really care about that.

894
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 7: Like Nick said, being the kindness is more important than success.

895
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: Next time, on a Live Again, we hear the story

896
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: of Rune Colbeck, who survived a bizarre encounter with a

897
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: serial killer in Anchorage, Alaska, and still grapples with the

898
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: psychological impact of the incident.

899
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 10: The whole encounter, I mean, it just took seconds, but

900
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 10: it felt like it felt like an eternity. It was

901
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 10: playing out enough of that I kept being surprised that

902
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 10: I wasn't dead yet.

903
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die,

904
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelba music by Ben Lovett, Additional

905
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

906
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

907
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima el Kali and

908
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: Nums Griffin. Our editors are Dan Gerhart Slovichca, Brent Die

909
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben love It and Alexander Rodriguez.

910
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. Thanks to Eric Larson for

911
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: sharing his story. To learn more about Eric and his work,

912
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: go to Eric larsenexplore dot com. That's e r I

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00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: c l A r s e n e x p

914
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: l o r e dot com. Alive Again is a

915
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: production of i Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you

916
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: have a transformative near death experience to share, we'd love

917
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: to hear your story. Please email us at Alive Again

918
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: Project at gmail dot com. That's a l I v

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00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: e A g A I N p r o j

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00:58:44,280 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: e c t at gmail dot com. Four two