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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Master's in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry red Holts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast What can I say about

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Speaker 2: Peter Rawlinson? Not only is he the guy who developed

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Speaker 2: the model S from a clean sheet of paper for Tesla,

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Speaker 2: but he's the man behind Lucid. He joined as chief

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Speaker 2: Technology Officer and eventually became CEO and drove the launch

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Speaker 2: of the Lucid Air, probably the most awarded car in

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Speaker 2: the modern era. It has sucked up every single accolade

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Speaker 2: that you can have for either an electric or traditional car.

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Speaker 2: Five hundred miles of range, twelve hundred horsepower on the

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Speaker 2: top of the line. Not only that, they have a

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Speaker 2: mid tier car that's about half the price of the

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Speaker 2: six figure one. They're aiming to release an suv towards

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Speaker 2: the end of this year, and a low cost car

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Speaker 2: in the forty to fifty thousand dollars range in the

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Speaker 2: coming years. This is a fascinating company. Rowlinson has an

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Speaker 2: amazing history in the industry, Lotus, Jaguar, Tesler, and now Lucid.

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Speaker 2: I thought this conversation was absolutely fascinating and I think

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Speaker 2: you will also with no further ado my conversation with

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Speaker 2: Peter Rawlinson.

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Speaker 3: Great to be here, barring, great to have you.

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Speaker 2: So let's start a little bit with your background. You

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Speaker 2: went to Imperial College at the University of London. Was

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Speaker 2: the career plan always automotive engineering or what were you thinking?

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was going to do. I

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Speaker 3: considered at school or something creative. I knew want to

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Speaker 3: design things, and in the end I did a mechanical

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Speaker 3: engineering course because it gave me the greatest optionality.

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Speaker 2: Imperial College has some amazing alumni, Sir William Crooks who

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Speaker 2: invented the vacuum tube, HG. Wells, Peter Higgs of Higgs Boson,

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Speaker 2: Sir Alexander Fleming and Palinacillin. What was your experience like

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Speaker 2: at Imperial College.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was quite an experience for a kid from

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Speaker 3: Wales in the big city.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about your automotive background.

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Speaker 2: Chief engineer at Lotus Cars, Principal engineer Jaguar, two storied marquees.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about your experience with both

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Speaker 2: of those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was a wealth of experience. I

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Speaker 3: think if we look at my days at Jaguar, it

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Speaker 3: was a fascinating period because it was the dawn of

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Speaker 3: the use of computers to design cars. Up to that time,

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Speaker 3: cars had been designed on drawing.

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Speaker 2: Boards manually pensilv.

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Speaker 1: Parsley.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, we took in nineteen eighties and I was

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Speaker 3: very fortunate that Jaguar made a big investment and a

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Speaker 3: big push to pioneering the use of computer to digitally

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Speaker 3: design a car and it never been done before.

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Speaker 1: Seriously, I was.

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Speaker 3: One of the first people in the UK to use

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Speaker 3: CAD computer aided design prior to Jaguar, but it was

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Speaker 3: a Jaguar that we really started using it in earnest

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Speaker 3: and we used it in a joined up way with

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Speaker 3: CAE computer aided Engineering, so we could do the stress

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Speaker 3: analysis by finite element analysis, which was all new stuff.

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Speaker 3: It was cutting edge, and we found a way of

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Speaker 3: transferring files from colleague to colleague, from their computer, from

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Speaker 3: terminal to terminal, and effectively we developed our own intranet,

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Speaker 3: which is known as an intranet. Now, well this was

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Speaker 3: long before the Internet. We didn't even have a name

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Speaker 3: for it, and we were just transferring files and we

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Speaker 3: created this methodology of a digital process to design a car,

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Speaker 3: which was totally revolutionary in terms of how all the

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Speaker 3: systems were designed, the plants, how the designs were shared digitally,

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Speaker 3: and how they were analyzed computationally for stress and crash performance.

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Speaker 2: So technology has been a core part of your process

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Speaker 2: for bringing cars from a clean sheet to actually a

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Speaker 2: sellable product totally.

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Speaker 3: And I've been fortunate. I've always worked, until more recent

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Speaker 3: years at the cutting edge in advanced engineering. I was

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Speaker 3: responsible for advanced engineering at Lotus and at Jaguar was

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Speaker 3: responsible for advanced body structure design.

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Speaker 1: And it's that.

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Speaker 3: Sort of technological advancement that is really central to my

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Speaker 3: career and my being really.

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Speaker 1: And also trying.

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Speaker 3: To do kind of the impossible with very small teams

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Speaker 3: of people, super smart people, very joined up, everyone knowing

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Speaker 3: what's going on, in the power of kind of an

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Speaker 3: elite team of really capable people, kind of like special Forces.

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Speaker 2: I love that analogy. So you go from Jaguar and

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Speaker 2: Lotus in twenty ten to Tesla as VP of Vehicle

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Speaker 2: Engineering and chief engineer of the Tesla Model Less. When

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Speaker 2: you arrived, that was a clean sheet piece of paper.

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Speaker 3: Well, I actually I joined in February nine, way before

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Speaker 3: twenty ten. It was formally announced quite a lot later.

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Speaker 3: But I actually spoke to a guy called Leland Musk

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Speaker 3: who called me an in England in January, and went

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Speaker 3: out and met him in January nine, and I was

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Speaker 3: there in the company in February nine. Long before there

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Speaker 3: was a conceptual prototype of models.

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Speaker 2: Back in those days, it was a little Lotus alon

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Speaker 2: where they took out the engine and dropped in a

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Speaker 2: bunch of batteries and electric motors. It's hard to imagine

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Speaker 2: that that beginning eventually led to the Model S. And

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Speaker 2: while the Model S is certainly long in the tooth,

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Speaker 2: it's been around a while. When that car came out,

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Speaker 2: it was pretty innovative and unique in the world. Tell

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Speaker 2: us about your experience helping to develop the Model S,

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Speaker 2: the car that arguably changed the entire automotive world totally.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was a labor of love. I was working

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Speaker 3: crazy hours, I working regular one hundred hours a week

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Speaker 3: to achieve that against all odds. And so when I

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Speaker 3: joined the company, start had already been made. They'd been

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Speaker 3: working on it for about a year, and it was

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Speaker 3: a false storm. It was never going to work. So

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Speaker 3: I had a difficult decision to make the first week

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Speaker 3: I was there, I had to go and tell my boss,

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Speaker 3: my new boss, that really need to start again with

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Speaker 3: a clean sheet, and he had the wisdom to agree

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Speaker 3: with me, and so we started a fresh modthe less

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Speaker 3: from the ground up, and that was probably the second

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Speaker 3: week of February nine.

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Speaker 2: And then the car comes out in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 3: It was record time, and it was just it was

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Speaker 3: a crazy because I mean I actually had a team

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Speaker 3: of about six people to start with. Everyone had left

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Speaker 3: and it was obvious I had to start from scratch,

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Speaker 3: from a clean computer screen. So I had to hire

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Speaker 3: the team, attract people to this company that no one

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Speaker 3: had heard of, which no one gave a shot of

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Speaker 3: being successful at There.

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Speaker 2: Was certainly a lot of skepticism in the early.

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Speaker 3: Year totally, and there was this misconception wasn't sufficient expertise

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Speaker 3: and experience to do to do a car let alone,

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Speaker 3: something which was really cutting edge. But actually having that

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Speaker 3: clean sheet and having the authority the go ahead to

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Speaker 3: recruit my team and hand pick my team, that's what

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Speaker 3: changed everything, because I could actually hand pick an elite

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Speaker 3: team of the best engineers in the world, and I

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Speaker 3: called everyone i'd work from with before. That's why a

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Speaker 3: lot of Brits came out and designed models. It was

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Speaker 3: very much an international effort, but a lot of British

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Speaker 3: people because there's people I knew from my paths from

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Speaker 3: Jaguar exactly exactly, and it's sort of really we set

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Speaker 3: up Teslo Engineering. There wasn't a place to do it,

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Speaker 3: and I was actually working in SpaceX. I had my

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Speaker 3: SpaceX security parts and I found that the second floor

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Speaker 3: of SpaceX was unused. It was early days at SpaceX.

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Speaker 3: I was just concrete floor. Let's say, can I have this.

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Speaker 3: Let's set up Teslo Engineering upstairs in SpaceX.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And we rolled some gray carpet do put some desks

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Speaker 3: there and about probably about twenty of us actually designed

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Speaker 3: the model less from the ground up through two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine, and then eventually I grew the team to

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Speaker 3: about one hundred and fifty people through that three year period.

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Speaker 3: But it was a fascinating time. It was when Tesla

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Speaker 3: was at the cutting edge. And the interesting thing was

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Speaker 3: the person who drove me the most was myself, because

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Speaker 3: here I had this incredible opportunity in life to show

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Speaker 3: what was possible and show what I could do. And

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Speaker 3: really one of the main weapons I had was digital

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Speaker 3: engineering to take everything I'd learned about cutting edge computational

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Speaker 3: engineering and simulation, digital wind tunnel, digital everything. So therefore

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Speaker 3: we could actually go later on prototypes and effectively go

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Speaker 3: for computational prototypes tens of thousands of times to get

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Speaker 3: things right. So when we actually built a proper prototype,

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Speaker 3: and the first proper prototype was late twenty ten, relatively late.

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Speaker 3: And this was a core philosophy of my engineering process

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Speaker 3: to really turn things on the head. Normally there's an

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Speaker 3: emphasis on getting an early prototype so you can learn

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Speaker 3: early with your mistakes. My process was the absolute antithesis.

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Speaker 3: Make all your mistakes on the computer, tested one thousand times,

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Speaker 3: ten thousand times, and then cut the metal when you're

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Speaker 3: damn sure, relatively late, and that prototype will be really good.

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Speaker 3: And that's what we did, and that's how we reduced

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Speaker 3: the time scale, and that car was in production three

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Speaker 3: and a half years from the day I said, right,

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Speaker 3: let's design it from scratch, back in February two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 2: Tesla later, but you said something that caught my ear.

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Speaker 2: At the time, the nine to twelve era Tesla was

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Speaker 2: at the cutting edge. You're implying they're no longer at

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Speaker 2: the cutting edge. Is that the case?

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Speaker 3: I think that the mantle has passed to Lucid. I

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Speaker 3: think Lucid is now at the cutting edge. I think

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Speaker 3: we are the company with a true sense of mission.

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Speaker 3: This week, I was proud to announce that we've created

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Speaker 3: a landmark number in the development of the ev which

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Speaker 3: is going to have a profound impact upon the planet,

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Speaker 3: and that is achieving five miles of range per kilar.

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Speaker 1: What tower of energy.

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Speaker 2: That's a giant efficiency.

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Speaker 1: It's a giant to leap forward.

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Speaker 2: Like a lot of the cars out there are two

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Speaker 2: ish if they're lucky three two.

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Speaker 3: You're very well versed in this barrier. Absolutely my car, guys,

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Speaker 3: you know your stuff. And why this is important is

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Speaker 3: that we need to address the barriers to widespread adoption

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Speaker 3: of electric car. And the first barrier, it was range anxiety.

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Speaker 3: When we launched Lucid Air in the autumn the fall

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Speaker 3: of twenty one, we had a range of five twenty

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Speaker 3: miles with our very first product. Nobody believed it as possible,

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Speaker 3: and we did that with the modest battery size. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't a cumongous It wasn't dumb range with just stuffing

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Speaker 3: loads of anyone can do that. And you know this

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Speaker 3: is this is cutting edge stuff. And why this is

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Speaker 3: important is the next barrier to widespread adoption is the

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Speaker 3: cost of ownership, the cost of an EV. Why why

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Speaker 3: not everybody jumping to EV's now? It's because of cost.

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Speaker 3: And if you look at the breakdown of the cost

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Speaker 3: of building the bill of materials all the parts that

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Speaker 3: you put into an EV. For a high end EV,

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Speaker 3: about thirty seven percent of that value is the battery pack.

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Speaker 3: But for a more affordable family car it's over forty percent.

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Speaker 3: There is no gasoline engine car equivalent to this balance

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Speaker 3: of cost. So what we are doing at LUCID is

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Speaker 3: addressing the cost of the batteries, and we're doing it

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Speaker 3: in an unorthodox way rather than saying, right, can we

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Speaker 3: make batteries cheaper through an economy of scale, or actually

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Speaker 3: saying do we need that many batteries in the first place?

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Speaker 3: Can we go further with higher technology? We've reinvented the

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Speaker 3: electric motor, we've reinvented the inverter to go further with

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Speaker 3: less batteries in the first place. And so if you

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Speaker 3: look at our products today. If you look at the

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Speaker 3: Loociderer Pure, we're able to do the car that's in

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Speaker 3: production right now. For any journey you take from A

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Speaker 3: to B, whether it's from home to the office, down

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Speaker 3: the shops, on your vocation, you will use less electricity

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Speaker 3: to go from A to B than any other car

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Speaker 3: on the market today, par none. And because it's the

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Speaker 3: most efficient, and because you're able to use less electricity,

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Speaker 3: not only will it cost you less as a user,

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Speaker 3: but it means you don't have to carry such a

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Speaker 3: large battery pack around, and that means better use of

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Speaker 3: the world's precious resources. Less minds for lithium, nickel, cobalt,

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Speaker 3: less dependence geopolitically in this world for the US, and

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Speaker 3: this is of a profound significance. We can go further

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Speaker 3: with less through technology.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about what led you to

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Speaker 2: join Lucid. You helped bring out the Models. You're chief

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Speaker 2: engineer of the Models project when you were at Tesla.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with that car. Not only did you

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Speaker 2: bring it to market incredibly quick, it won multiple awards

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Speaker 2: Onomabile Magazine, Automobile of the Year, Motor Trend, Car the Year,

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Speaker 2: All sorts, of big wins. What made the model ass

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Speaker 2: so successful.

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Speaker 3: I think it was a big picture thinking and right

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Speaker 3: down to detailed execution. To have both, I think you

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Speaker 3: need to have a strategic oversight of joined up thinking

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Speaker 3: of how systems interact relative to each other as a

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Speaker 3: complete ecosystem, and then you need to have that loving

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Speaker 3: attention to detail at I mean, there was there was

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Speaker 3: a there was a well known for my mantra that

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Speaker 3: every millimeter counts, and I felt that every gram counts,

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Speaker 3: particularly with an electric car, where every every duel of

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Speaker 3: the energy is a precious commodity. So it was really

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Speaker 3: a very interesting intellectual puzzle because when I arrived at

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Speaker 3: Tesla in February nine, prior to my arrival, friends von Holtsaersen,

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Speaker 3: who was the design chief, arrived around I think it

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Speaker 3: was about Autumn eight, no August eight, and before I

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Speaker 3: had arrived, the exterior styling design the shape of models

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Speaker 3: had been signed off on approved by between Frances and Elon,

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Speaker 3: and that was pretty well predetermined before I arrived. Now

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Speaker 3: that set in stone effectively the outer shape constraint the

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Speaker 3: parameters that I as an engineer could work to. Now

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Speaker 3: that's very different from how we approach Lucida, and I

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Speaker 3: can go on to that later, but this presented a

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Speaker 3: very interesting and compelling intellectual puzzle, a three D puzzle.

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Speaker 3: How was I going to fit all the battery cells

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Speaker 3: in to give that car, to endow that car with

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Speaker 3: sufficient range? How was I going to fit in motors, transmission,

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Speaker 3: drive shafts, suspension people, packaged leg room, crumple zones, cooling,

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Speaker 3: just space for luggage, all of that within that predetermined

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Speaker 3: out of shape because it'd been signed off, and I

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Speaker 3: realized within a millisecond that that that wasn't going to

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Speaker 3: change much. So it was a fascinating three dimental puzzle.

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Speaker 3: It was like a tetrix on steroids, tetras on steroids.

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Speaker 3: To solve how we were going to fit all these

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Speaker 3: parts in the car. And I can give you. I

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Speaker 3: can give you a very interesting example. We wanted to

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Speaker 3: have a flat floor in the car to differentiate it

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Speaker 3: no transmission tunnel inside the cabin and traditional car's got

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Speaker 3: a transmission tunnel.

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Speaker 1: At the rear.

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Speaker 3: And because that is an obstruction to comfort for the.

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Speaker 2: Occupants middle seat in the back, Oh.

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Speaker 3: Who absolutely exactly, And so there was a design to

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Speaker 3: have a fully flat floor but one of the big

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Speaker 3: loads that you have to design force structurally in a

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Speaker 3: car at the seat belt seat belt pull tests, particularly

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Speaker 3: the lower anchor points which goes through the seat and

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Speaker 3: through the seat mountains into the floor, and so flat

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Speaker 3: sheet metal floor wouldn't have been strong enough. So it's

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Speaker 3: very clear we have to link the battery pack structure

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Speaker 3: under the floor through and make the battery pack contribute

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Speaker 3: to the seat belt strength. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So the

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Speaker 3: seat belt load to go through the floor through a

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Speaker 3: long bolt through the cross member which is in the

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Speaker 3: battery pack, and these had to go in a specific

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Speaker 3: location where the people fitted, and so that starts determining

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Speaker 3: where you can put the cross members in the battery pack.

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Speaker 3: So when I started laying out the architecture of all

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Speaker 3: the cells fitted in that battery pack, I noticed that

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Speaker 3: we could actually divide that into seven elements along the

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Speaker 3: rocker section and we'd be able to get these cross

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Speaker 3: members in precisely the right point. And why this is

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Speaker 3: a very interesting example of joined up thinking is that

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Speaker 3: then led to the design of the module of the

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Speaker 3: battery pack, and we ended up with sixteen modules of

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Speaker 3: four ndred and five fifty cells on the model less

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Speaker 3: and actually it had a determining factor upon the voltage

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Speaker 3: that the car ran at.

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Speaker 1: Can you believe that.

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Speaker 3: The sequel anchorage structural loads starts splitting up the pack

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Speaker 3: into discrete modules, which influenced the electrical voltage. One thing

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Speaker 3: truly joined up thinking.

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Speaker 2: One thing leads to the next, which leads to the next,

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Speaker 2: and every decision you make has ramifications everything else totally.

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Speaker 3: And it's not the only thing. Because we knew we

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Speaker 3: were we didn't have silicon carbide switching technology in those days,

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Speaker 3: so we were using insulated gate bipolar transistors, which was

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Speaker 3: limiting us to you know, around four twenty four thirty folds.

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Speaker 3: So we knew what sort of range of and we

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Speaker 3: knew there could be some peak overloads, that voltage spikes

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Speaker 3: that we had to cover for. So we knew roughly

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Speaker 3: the voltage range that we could hit. But it was

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Speaker 3: sort of absolutely consistent with that how many cells can

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Speaker 3: we fit because each cell had amount of energy and

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Speaker 3: so the number of cells will determine the range of

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Speaker 3: the vehicles. He wanted to get us to maximize that

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Speaker 3: as well, and even the gaps between the cells, and

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Speaker 3: I was able to do that without changing the wheelbase

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Speaker 3: of the car from the original design, which was quite

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Speaker 3: an achievement, I can tell you.

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Speaker 2: So now let me pull you back from the engineering

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Speaker 2: wonkiness you come off of the giant success of the

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Speaker 2: Model S. What made you decide, Hey, that was fun,

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Speaker 2: let me go elsewhere and start with a clean sheet,

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Speaker 2: rather than stay at Tesla and work on whatever their

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Speaker 2: next vehicle was.

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Speaker 3: I'd glad you ask me that, because there's a actually

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Speaker 3: there's a sort of interlude between the two. So while

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Speaker 3: I was doing all this, my mom, my mother was

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Speaker 3: living in England, and she's a widow, and she was

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Speaker 3: in her nineties and her health was failing, and I

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Speaker 3: just had to go back. So I resigned my position

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Speaker 3: at Tesla in January twenty twenty. Was I went home

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Speaker 3: for Christmas end of twenty eleven and it was clear

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Speaker 3: that mum needed me, and so crazy I gave up

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Speaker 3: my job at Tesla, flying around with El on his

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Speaker 3: jet and I went home and I was literally cooking

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Speaker 3: dinner and washing the dishes for more and then her felt.

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Speaker 3: It's only when she passed that I really came out

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Speaker 3: and joined a little company and set up Lucid from.

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Speaker 2: It So were there any regrets after not going back

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Speaker 2: to Tesla? What did Elon say to you? You were

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Speaker 2: a key person for the success of the Model Ass.

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Speaker 2: He recruited you. How did he feel when you said

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do something else.

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Speaker 3: Well, he did have the good christ to ring me

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Speaker 3: up and asked me to come back, but it was

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Speaker 3: my decision was made.

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Speaker 2: So what was it like working for Musk? He's got

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a reputation. How was your relationship?

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Speaker 2: How did he affect what the Model Ass turned out

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Speaker 2: to be?

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Speaker 1: So it's very interesting.

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Speaker 3: I think there was a common narrative that he pushes

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Speaker 3: everyone his subordinates really hard.

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Speaker 2: True.

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Speaker 3: I never had that experience, really because I pushed myself

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Speaker 3: so crazy how to do it that there was someone

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Speaker 3: pushing me harder than he ever could, and it was

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Speaker 3: me because I'd had years and years of wanting to

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Speaker 3: do something like a model less and I could never

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Speaker 3: have done it at say Jakie or Lotus. But what

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Speaker 3: I had was the freedom of picking hand picking brilliant engineers,

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Speaker 3: and he was totally aligned with that. We totally had

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Speaker 3: a shared vision and SpaceX was built upon that. And

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Speaker 3: I was working in SpaceX that one in great engineers

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Speaker 3: worth one hundred mediocre people. It's all about how can

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Speaker 3: you track the best brains on the planet to come

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Speaker 3: up with a sense of mission. And that's what I did.

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Speaker 3: And actually I remember I actually even had a math

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Speaker 3: test for all my candidates and it was like, never mind,

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Speaker 3: what qualifications You've got to do.

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Speaker 1: This math with me? People.

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Speaker 3: I've thought them all through the ringer and I personally

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Speaker 3: into everyone. And actually I built Lucid that way. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't these days, but if you

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Speaker 3: look at the core capability, the core engineering talent at Lucid,

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Speaker 3: and many of them been with me for many, many years,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of my Tesla modelesque team came across

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Speaker 3: with me. And literally we've got hundreds of people have

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Speaker 3: come across from Tesla to Lucid. Lucy's like a beacon

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Speaker 3: of light now that hundreds of people have come across

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Speaker 3: and and they've drawn to this flame that we are

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Speaker 3: going to be the best technically, whatever whatever it takes.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into Lucid in a few moments.

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Speaker 2: But you mentioned space, ax, I have to ask you

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Speaker 2: a question. Not only is Elon running Elon Musk running Tesla,

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Speaker 2: he's running space Ax, he's running Twitter or ostensible if

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Speaker 2: he handed it off to somebody, but it's pretty clear

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Speaker 2: he's still very involved. He's running Xai. That's four companies.

400
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Speaker 2: How can one person successfully manage running for a company?

401
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Speaker 2: Steve Jobs ran Apple and Pixar, and he was pretty

402
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Speaker 2: hands off at Pixar.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there is a worrying distraction there, and

404
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Speaker 3: I think that's why the mental has been passed to Lucid.

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Speaker 3: I pledge to my whole team, my investors, all our

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Speaker 3: shareholders that I'm fully committed to Lucid alone and I'm

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Speaker 3: all in. I'm just one, one task, one company. And

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Speaker 3: that's probably why you hardly ever see me in the media,

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Speaker 3: because it requires that degree of commitment to set up

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Speaker 3: a car company.

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Speaker 2: So the implication is if you're running for companies. And

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Speaker 2: I don't want to put words in your mouth, but

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Speaker 2: are you implying he has taken his eye off the

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Speaker 2: ball at Tesla?

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Speaker 3: I think that you've got to look at who is

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Speaker 3: now leading technically. I mean, we've got the highest voltage car,

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Speaker 3: We've got the most efficient, we've got the most aerodynamic,

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Speaker 3: we've got the longest range, Who've got the highest performance.

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Speaker 3: We've got the best battery engineering, We've got the most

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Speaker 3: advanced motor controlled algorithms. I think we've got the best

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Speaker 3: battery management system control system on the planet. If you

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Speaker 3: look at all the breakthroughs that we're making, it's very

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Speaker 3: clear that back in two thousand and nine to twenty twelve,

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Speaker 3: Tesla was doing that, and today right now it's Lucive

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Speaker 3: that's doing it. And someone needs to carry this torch

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Speaker 3: forward for the benefit of all humanity, and we're happy

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Speaker 3: to do that.

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Speaker 2: To me, the thing that perplexes me more than anything

429
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Speaker 2: about Elon Musk is if my product that I am

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Speaker 2: trying to sell is supposedly going to reduce global carbon

431
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Speaker 2: emissions and and adapt to better outcome for global warming,

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Speaker 2: why tack hard to the right and get in bed

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Speaker 2: with people who think global warming is a hoax? Like

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Speaker 2: your client base, are people concerned about global warming? I

435
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 2: don't understand the whole right wing trolling, crazy sort of

436
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: stuff that's happened over the past year with him. You've

437
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 2: watched him. I know it's been a good long time,

438
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Speaker 2: but any explanation for what's going on there.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a worrisome trend of distraction. I'm

440
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: an engineer and a scientist, and I believe is compelling,

441
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: overwhelming evidence that global warming is real. It's happening all

442
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: around us. You'd have to be blind not to see that.

443
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: And I'm only committed to doing all I can. I

444
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: will not rest to use my life energy to try

445
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: to help this generation in future general. And this is

446
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: the sense of mission that we carry at LUCID to

447
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 3: really advance the adoption of sustainable mobility, and we have

448
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: to do that with a sense of utter urgency, and

449
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: these distractions have no place in that mission for me.

450
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: Really interesting when the Model S came out, I know

451
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 2: it was less than five years to make it, but

452
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: it seemed as if the technology built into the Model

453
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: S was ten years ahead of everybody else, maybe seven years,

454
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: but nothing else was like that in terms of the

455
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: over the year updates, the interface, the visual camera system,

456
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: the self driving. How big of a lead in any

457
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: of those technologies does Tesla have or are you suggesting

458
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: that they're pretty much number two or worse in all

459
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: of those technologies.

460
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 3: Virtually that you've mentioned there behind us that we're about

461
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: four years ahead of Tesla. I would say that in

462
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: terms of autonomous driving capability, they're marginally ahead of us,

463
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: but not a long way. They're not at Level three,

464
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 3: they're at a level two plus something. They're a little

465
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 3: bit ahead of us, but that's very deliberate. I've chosen

466
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 3: to be a fast follower. But if you look at

467
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 3: just about everything else, we are significantly ahead in the

468
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 3: core powatrain technologies and also some of the I mean

469
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: you mentioned over the air. I let me give you

470
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: an example in terms of that when we launched Lucid

471
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: and a lot of people don't know this, we launched Lucid

472
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: Air in the fall of twenty twenty one with a

473
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: revolutionary twelve volt architecture that we embodied a Nodle Ethernet

474
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: data super highway in the car. That was in twenty one.

475
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: More recently, Tesla's finally got to that with the cyber truck.

476
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 3: But that many people don't realize. They think it's an

477
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: innovation of cyber truck. It's actually Tesla did it too,

478
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: and a bit years after Lucid did. Lucid innovated with

479
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: that and Tesla followed. If you look at our ota capability,

480
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: it's without power. Yes, over the air updates. We've done

481
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 3: about seventy five eighty updates. They're coming regularly, thick and fast.

482
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: And let me give you an example. We can actually

483
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: we've pioneered a type of over the air update which

484
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 3: is unique. That is a diagnostic tool. So there's something

485
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 3: new that's gone wrong with one of the supplier's parts,

486
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: we can lab test for a test proceded that would

487
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: identify the nature of the fault. Then we can code

488
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: that test in our algorithms and we can over the

489
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: air that And we've actually done this, so it's almost

490
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: like getting a dose of penicillin that the car gets

491
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: and it can actually self dying moves and determine if

492
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 3: there is a new fault from the supplier. This is

493
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 3: cutting edge stuff. And more recently, as part of the

494
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: seminal announcement this week that I made that we're going

495
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: to get to five miles per kilater. Part of that,

496
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: a part of that is hardware, but a chunk of

497
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: that advancement is due to some new motor control software

498
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: and we will be over the air relaying that transmitting

499
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: that to.

500
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: All our fleet.

501
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: So in other words, you're going to improve the efficiency

502
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: of previously sold car totally and they'll step up to five.

503
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: They won't all, but they will all improve that incremental

504
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: part which is due to that software, the effect of

505
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: that particular software. It's only a car that we're going

506
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: to launch very soon we'll have the Magic five, but

507
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 3: they'll all benefit from this.

508
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: Huh. Really interesting Again, I don't want to put words

509
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: in your mouth, but I'm going to repeat what you

510
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: said in your polite British ways in my course American ways.

511
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: Elon Musk is running four companies. He's distracted. Tesla was

512
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: the leader in all these technologies battery, motors, software, over

513
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: the air, down the road and other than self driving.

514
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: They have lost the mantle of leadership. It sounds like

515
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: you're saying across the board in ev technology.

516
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me give you some metrics.

517
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: If you look at for many years we supplied the

518
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: batteries to the World Championship for Electric motor Sport.

519
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: This is related to the deal with Aston Martin.

520
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: Quite separate, quite separates, and we used all that knowledge

521
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 3: from four years of successful motor racing to all the

522
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: teams in the World Championship for Electric Motorsport that we

523
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 3: supplied the batteries. For all that expertise has been embodied

524
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: in our battery management system are BMS and our battery

525
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 3: systems in our current CUS and actually right today we

526
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 3: supply the front drive unit, the inverter and motor and

527
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: transmission in the nose of all those race cars. That

528
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: is the most advanced unit in the world today. It

529
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 3: is nearly fifteen horsepower per kilogram. If you look at

530
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: what Tesla is doing with its PLAID technology, it's about

531
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 3: three point nine horse power per kilogram.

532
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: This is four x yes, And if you.

533
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 3: Look at our mainstream production technology that we put in

534
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 3: listed air, we get up to nine horse power per kilogram.

535
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 3: Plaid is three point nine. It's not like we're thirty

536
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: percent to hent Huh.

537
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: Really really interesting. So the old philosophy of race on Sunday,

538
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: sell on Monday is still kind of real indeed.

539
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: And do you know what, Barry, what's remarkable about this?

540
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: I think that adage was true in the in the

541
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: thirties and forties and the fifties. But I've been in

542
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 3: vanced engineering in road cars all my life. I've always

543
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: thought it doesn't happen what goes on the race car.

544
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: The technology never comes back in and finally I've had

545
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 3: it happen and it's genuine. What we've learned on the

546
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 3: racetrack with our battery technology is embodied in every Lucid

547
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 3: air we've ever made.

548
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: So let's talk about what took place in your post

549
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: Tesla career. You join Lucid as a CTO. What responsibilities

550
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: come with that role at an EV shop?

551
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: A lot of responsibility for the product, for the complete car, engineering, the.

552
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: Vehicle, everything batteries, motors, and everything across software, across the board.

553
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people realized that Lucid

554
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: began a long time ago as at Tiva. I'm not

555
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: pronouncing it right, it was an electric battery maker. How

556
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: do you explain that that transition from just making electric

557
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: batteries to saying, oh, let's let's become an EV manufacturer.

558
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think there was a recognition that

559
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 3: there wasn't a true value proposition in just approaching that.

560
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: Actually, Tesla in the.

561
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 3: Early days had a similar approach that it was only

562
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: later they thought, well, really that the car is the

563
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 3: true value generator. So I was approached, would I like

564
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 3: to join this little company which really had very little

565
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 3: at the time.

566
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: And they had launched in like two thousand and six.

567
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: They've been a long long time, so I was I

568
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 3: was approached much later than that, and it wasn't until

569
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: twenty sixty that we really created Lucid and really focused

570
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 3: on creating the Lucid.

571
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: Air, the best car in the world.

572
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: And you know, it was very clear to me that

573
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: we'd have to change the name and relaunches at a

574
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: different brand that was more customer oriented in facing. So

575
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: Lucid was founded and created by a small group of

576
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: us in twenty sixteen out of the Little Mattery Company,

577
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: which had been round for a long time. And that's

578
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 3: when we really got serious.

579
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 2: So the co founder and the CEO of Lucid retires,

580
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: you're tapped to jump into that role both as CEO

581
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: and CTO. What was it like stepping into a place

582
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: a founder.

583
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 4: Well, there was a tortuous transition at one stage, but

584
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 4: by that time, by sixteen so many of my former

585
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 4: Tesla team had come across to join me with this

586
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 4: mission to create a better car, and I'd been joined by.

587
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: Some key players in the team, Derek Jenkins from Mazda.

588
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 3: I persuaded Jack Derek to give up his job as

589
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 3: design director from Malazda North America and joined to head

590
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: up the design studio. Eric Bach came along who is

591
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: his now my chief engineer and senior vice president of

592
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 3: product and Engineering. And these are both brilliant, brilliant people

593
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: who joined me pretty well in the early days and

594
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: they were through this period with me and as a

595
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: little team we created Lucid and we launched Lucid Air.

596
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: It was December sixteen, and then it was clear we

597
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: needed to have some serious money to put this thing

598
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 3: into production.

599
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 2: He raised a lot of capital over the years.

600
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes, and it requires a lot of capital.

601
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 3: And then we had a lean period through seventeen and

602
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: into eighteen where we couldn't find any funding. But we

603
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 3: had what turned out to be a very interesting card

604
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 3: that had been played because in sixteen I became friendly

605
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: with the CEO at McLaren and over a cup of

606
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 3: tea in England in the McLaren Tech Center, English style,

607
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: we decided that we'd enter the world of electric race cars.

608
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: And McLaren recognized that they've got great race car experience,

609
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 3: but they didn't have the battery pack experience. But we've

610
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: got the battery experience expertise.

611
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about that battery pack.

612
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 2: It's scalable, it's modular. Yes, it continued to iterate based

613
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: on race experience. How much of an advantage is the

614
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: Lucid battery pack versus other EV makers.

615
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 3: It's a significant advantage. But the biggest advantage in terms

616
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: of our range and efficiency is not the pack, and

617
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: this is it's the motor and invert and the complete

618
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 3: drawing units.

619
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that because and I'm gonna take

620
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: a look at an engineering drawing. But when I look

621
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: at at some of the internals for the engine, the motor,

622
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: and I still say engine out of habit, but the

623
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: motor and the transmission are integrated into one and the

624
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: axle transmission goes straight through it, and so there's no differentials,

625
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: there's no there's a lot of things that come out

626
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: of the vehicle with this very small, very lightweight, yet

627
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: high horsepower, high efficiency motor. Tell us a little bit

628
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: about the engineering behind.

629
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: That, Okay, okay. So one of the.

630
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: The disadvantages when we were in model ass was that

631
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: there were two different teams. One was doing the transmission,

632
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: another was doing the motor. So JB Struggles team was

633
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: doing the motion and I was doing the trends mission,

634
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 3: and so you've got two different groups and where the

635
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 3: two join.

636
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: Is a weakness.

637
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: So when I set up LUCID, it was clear we

638
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 3: needed to reinvent the electric motor. And I can't tell

639
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 3: you Barry that at the time that seemed crazy.

640
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: It seems crazy. You're just saying it right now, you're smiling,

641
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: because what do you mean You want.

642
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: To tell you why there was a perception that you

643
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 3: couldn't make a better electric motor, that electric motors are

644
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 3: so much more efficient than gasoline cars. That it's done.

645
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 3: It was designed in the Victorian area, and that was it.

646
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 3: And it is true that electric motors can be very

647
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: highly efficient. If you put one in an air conditioning tube,

648
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: you run at a set speed and set load, it

649
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: can be right on that peak spot of efficiency. But

650
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 3: that efficiency trails off dramatically in any side of that spot.

651
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: And if you look at electric car people don't often

652
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 3: realize that cargoes faster ofs lower. When the motor goes

653
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: faster or slow, that's what determines how fast you go,

654
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: how fast the motor is spinning, and how much you accelerate,

655
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: that's how much talk is being developed from the motor,

656
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: how much power is being released, and the antithesis under

657
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 3: regenerative braking. And so the task is to create a

658
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: motor and inverter system and transmission that's got a much

659
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 3: broader bandwidth of efficiency. And this wasn't even the It

660
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: wasn't wasn't it wasn't even considered possible. I don't think

661
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: anyone was thinking of it.

662
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: And you also not only made the motor more efficient,

663
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: but you integrated the transmission to the motor.

664
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: Wen So the electrocmotor has got two parts as the

665
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: fixed bit which is called the stata very simple, and

666
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 3: the lit that spins in the middle, which is called

667
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: the rotor. And the rotor really provides power as a

668
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 3: result of how fast it spins and the talk that

669
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 3: it transmits at that spin speed.

670
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: And if you look at.

671
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 3: Something that transmits tool like a propeller shaft in a car.

672
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 3: You're a car guy, you know prop shaft, So hollow

673
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: the tubellion because that's what's required.

674
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: You want to be exactly and you.

675
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 3: Learn that the metal in the middle does very little.

676
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 3: That's why it's hollowed out. So I started asking, well,

677
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: what does the metal in the middle of a rotor

678
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 3: do if it's trying to transmit talk and it's electromagnetic,

679
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 3: why does it We have to have these solid rotors,

680
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 3: why can't we hollow them out more? Well, the answer

681
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 3: is it does very little. We can hollow that. It

682
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 3: should be like a tube. And then we start thinking

683
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: what we can get in. And I have a brilliant

684
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: engineer as a team on. My engineer and my team

685
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 3: called Balash Palfi's Hungarian who came up with this integrating

686
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 3: a microdifferential inside. And this was all enabled by my

687
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: brilliant motor engineer, doctor Inma Dlala.

688
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: And I put them.

689
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 3: Both together to sit together and I said, look, guys,

690
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 3: I don't want to have a separate motor and transmission team.

691
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 3: I want to consider a motor transmission as a single

692
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 3: rotary inertial system with total I want to think of

693
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: it as a single unit. I want a motor transmission unit.

694
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: And you might think, why do you even need gears, Well,

695
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: you need gears because the wheels of a car are

696
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: quite large compared with the diameter of electric motor, so

697
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: you need to provide that attractive force at the contact

698
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: patch of the tire, and the bigger you make the wheel,

699
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: the less force you're going to have for a given talk.

700
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 3: So you do need to have a reduction set. So

701
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 3: we launched Lucid Air with a ratio of seven point

702
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: oh six to one. Models was nine point zho to one.

703
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 3: We went to seven point zho six to one Air

704
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: and we compromise a little bit on not to sixty,

705
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: but we got better mid range performance. And I always

706
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 3: wanted mid more mid range acceleration and efficiency. I wasn't

707
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 3: going to be racing naught to sixty with it, and

708
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: so that's why we went to a seven point oh

709
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: six to one ratio.

710
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: What's the power to weight ratio of that integraated and

711
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 2: so very compact motor and integrated Well.

712
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: If you look at the whole unit, there's a drive unit,

713
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 3: inverter motor and transmission the whole thing with the differential,

714
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 3: it's nine point zero horsepower.

715
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: Per Kilogram's substantial.

716
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 3: It's substantial, but it's it's it's it's more like twenty

717
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 3: at motor level, and if you look at the elements

718
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: within the motor, it's more like twenty five. If you

719
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 3: actually cut away the motor. So often people attribute that

720
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: to the motor, but it's not. The motor is about

721
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 3: thirty two to thirty three kilograms of the seventy four

722
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 3: kilograms of the complete unit.

723
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: So let's talk about what making that so relatively small

724
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: and light does to the design of the car. Not

725
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 2: only are we not talking about the hump in the

726
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 2: back seat or even in the front seat, but by

727
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: making that motor so small, the floor panel of the

728
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: car can be elatively flat, the wheels can be pushed

729
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: further out to the corner, and the interior cabin becomes

730
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 2: much more substantial for a car of this size.

731
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: That's right, but we'd done all that with models. But

732
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 3: what we hadn't done, and this was the impossible step.

733
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: And because electric motors were inherently much smaller than gasoline

734
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 3: V eights and the like and didn't need all these

735
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: drive shlves, we had all those advantages with model less.

736
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: But what I asked was kind of the unthinkable that Lucid, Well,

737
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 3: we know that the drive unit, electric motor and drive

738
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 3: unit is a lot smaller. What if we really explored

739
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 3: how small we can make this thing? Why don't we

740
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 3: just go crazy? Let's see how compact we can make this,

741
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: because if we could make it even more compact, we

742
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: could have an even more profound impact upon the design

743
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 3: of the car. And that's when I took perhaps Lucid's

744
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 3: greatest gamble. And this is why I could never done

745
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: this in a conventional car company, because what we did

746
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: was whilst one team set off, my motor and inverter

747
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 3: and transmission team set off to truly miniiturize that drive unit,

748
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: the rest of the company, the rest of the engineering

749
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 3: and design teams. We're designing Lucid Air as a car

750
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: with enough leng room, transformative length, room and comfort in

751
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 3: interior space, but much smaller on the outside, much more aerodynamic,

752
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: and much sleeaker.

753
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 2: It's an insized car with the room of car car.

754
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 3: To full size. Its interior space is longer than a

755
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 3: long wheelbase S class Mercedes, and yet on the outside

756
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 3: it's ten millimeters shorter than a Tesla mode Less. And

757
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 3: so I bet the house on we're going to engineer

758
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 3: this car design the whole thing around the will be

759
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 3: size of these dry units because we will achieve that miniaturization,

760
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 3: otherwise it wouldn't work, and we managed to pull it off.

761
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 3: And that's how we were able to do loose it Air.

762
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: It was a huge push that the car would only

763
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 3: work if we achieved this miniaturization. We had to achieve

764
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:17,479
Speaker 3: it to make the car work.

765
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about the Lucid Air,

766
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: which first came out late twenty twenty one.

767
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, twenty one, Yes, five hundred.

768
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 2: Plus mile range, the longest in the industry, five twenty

769
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: when we launched five twenty, when you lost fastest acceleration,

770
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: highest top speed, lowest drag coefficient, most interior space, most

771
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 2: luggage space, and then outcomes of the awards fastest changing fast, Well,

772
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about the new two hundred miles

773
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: and twelve minutes, which nothing compares to that. But I'm

774
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 2: looking at this run of awards from let's go down

775
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: the Less Car and Driver, Motorsport Edmonds Wards, Automotive Car

776
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: and Driver, World Car Awards, News Week, US News and

777
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 2: Worlds Report, Bloomberg Car and Driver, motor It's Best Supercar,

778
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: Best Luxury Car, Bust Electric Car ten, Best Engines and

779
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: Propulsion Systems, Top ev Pick record for longest range ever

780
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: tested car, The Year Car, The Year ev Year, the

781
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: Year Like You guys have cleaned up as of April

782
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Like every award, you can suck up

783
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: for this. So the first question is when the Air

784
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: first came out, it was kind of what can we

785
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 2: do if money is no restraint? But then you've certainly

786
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 2: come out with subsequent models that are a little more affordable.

787
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 2: Tell us about the plan for the next few vehicles

788
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 2: that are coming out of Lucid.

789
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were really thrilled because we won Motor Trend

790
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: Car the Year for Air and it's the first time

791
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: any company in the history of that award has ever

792
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 3: won the award with its very first vehicle. No one's

793
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: ever done that before, so this was this was a landmark.

794
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

795
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 3: It was important we started with a high end vehicle

796
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 3: first to establish the brand. But when I launched Listeday

797
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 3: in thick of COVID, and we did so on September ninth,

798
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, I promised the world that we would get

799
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 3: to an entry level price of sixty nine thousand, nine

800
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 3: hundred and I'm so pleased that earlier this year I

801
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 3: met my promise that we brought the pure version of Air,

802
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 3: which is an outstanding car.

803
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 2: Sixty's the range of that one.

804
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 3: Our range of that one is four hundred and nineteen miles.

805
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: Still to share.

806
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 3: And the reason we're able to do that is that

807
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: we can achieve that with just an eighty eight kilwater

808
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: our battery pack. No one else goes even close to that.

809
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: And that's the efficiency of the mot.

810
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: Yes, which means we can get four nineteen more than

811
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 3: anyone else has gone with a smaller battery pack. For example,

812
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: Models has got over one hundred kilowattas and because of that,

813
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 3: because the battery pack costs so much to make, it

814
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 3: saves us that money, and it's a company we can

815
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 3: afford to put that product out there.

816
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: So let's talk about a couple more products that are

817
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: on the drawing board. If we look around and we

818
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: see Hyundai and Kiya, they have forty thousand Volkswagen forty

819
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: if something the Model three in the forties before even

820
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 2: We'll talk about the Chinese evs a little later, But

821
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: it looks like if you can the average price of

822
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 2: a new car in the US is now about forty

823
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: eight thousand dollars, if you could get in the forties,

824
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: it seems like it opens up a mass market. What

825
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: are the plans. We'll talk about the SUV in a minute.

826
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: What are the plans for, you know, a really affordable

827
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: entry level EV.

828
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 3: You're describing our mid sized platform exactly that. It's schedule

829
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: for production late twenty six, forty eight to fifty thousand

830
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 3: dollars car state of the arts, and we'll be able

831
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 3: to make that because we can go further with less batteries,

832
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: and therefore we can afford to make such a compelling

833
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 3: car at that price point like no one else can,

834
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 3: embodying all our learning, all the technology that we've developed

835
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 3: from air and that will transfer all our knowledge into

836
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 3: mid sized platform, making evs progressively more affordable. That is

837
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 3: our mission. We want to be a major player. Don't

838
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: think of listed as a niche luxury player. I want

839
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: to be selling a million of those cars a year

840
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 3: in the early twenty thirties.

841
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: Give us your spec targets for that mid sized car,

842
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 2: which I don't think you have a name for yet.

843
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: We haven't what is the horsepower, what is the range,

844
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 2: and what is the interior space going to be?

845
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 3: Well, we haven't disclosed that it will just be super competitive,

846
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 3: but I can say this that I mean that will

847
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,479
Speaker 3: be a time when we overtly compete with Tesla Model

848
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 3: Y Model three, that will be our Tesla Model three

849
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 3: And why competitor?

850
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 2: You want to call that a Model three killer?

851
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: No, I never call an oh.

852
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 2: All right again, I'm putting words into your mouth. So

853
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: what I would imagine room for both, What I would

854
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 2: imagine would do really well in the market. Is a

855
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: car that costs forty somethings one thousand dollars is the

856
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: size of an E class Mercedes or smaller with a

857
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 2: range four hundred Dare I say five hundred miles and

858
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: four hundred to five hundred horsepower? Am I hallucinating or

859
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: is that? Are those realistic?

860
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 3: I think we have to look at the need for

861
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:51,280
Speaker 3: range in the future. Paradoxically, I see the electric curls

862
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 3: of the future having less range than today and less.

863
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 2: Need for it as a network gets built out, as.

864
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 3: You get a more mature charging infrastruture. I never get

865
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 3: range anxiety in a gasoline car.

866
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 2: I might always a guest, I might.

867
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 3: Have a strange accent, but I have learned something during

868
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 3: my days in the US. There's a gas stration on

869
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: every street corner.

870
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm not going to run out.

871
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 3: Unless I'm in Utah, and there's a next the next

872
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 3: I don't have to worry about getting gas.

873
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: So while we.

874
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: See when we see a more mature charging infrastructure, and

875
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: the other thing that's coming is fast charging cell chemistry.

876
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that. So that's going to help

877
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: the new technology that Gen one, not Gen two or three,

878
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: but the next EV charging system that you're going to

879
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 2: have available is two hundred miles of charge in twelve minutes. Yeah,

880
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: we've got that that exists today. Yeah, so that's a

881
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: that's a pretty big lift for you know, for a

882
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: cup of coffee and a bathroom streak, you have two

883
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 2: hundred miles. What's the next generation after that?

884
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,439
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, and what I want to say

885
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: is the way I will answer you a question, but

886
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 3: this is a very important point. The way charging is

887
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 3: measured really frustrates me because everyone is obsessed with measuring

888
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 3: it and how fast the percentage of the battery charges

889
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: ten to eighty percent. What doesn't matter totally. It doesn't

890
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 3: matter what percentage the battery charges. If your range sucks,

891
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 3: your charge rate will suck. So what's important is the

892
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: power that's going in and killer what's multiplied by your

893
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 3: efficiency in miles per killer what are and that will

894
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: give you miles charged, Well, it will give you technically

895
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 3: per hour, but it's miles per minute that matters. And

896
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 3: we're on the same page. That is the first thing.

897
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 3: That's the thing that counts. And we're able to get

898
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 3: a granturing and get three hundred miles range charge in

899
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 3: twenty one minutes. It's extraordinary, not We've got the fastest

900
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 3: charging thing on the planet. Now, one of the issues

901
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 3: with today's cells is that you trade you trade energy

902
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 3: for power. So actually you could you could have faster

903
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 3: charging power dense cells, but you'd lose range for that.

904
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 3: So we always cold tend to go for more energy

905
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 3: cells which have got a limit to the change rate.

906
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: So that I do both. Can you have a small

907
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 2: number of fast charging cells.

908
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 3: That sort of the benefits cancel each other out. It's

909
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 3: it's a it's a great idea, but it's you do

910
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 3: the math and it doesn't help you. Actually, it actually

911
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 3: makes things even more complex. One of the potential saviors

912
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: here is the the growth of LFP. This is the

913
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: new lithium.

914
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: The iron phosphate chemistry.

915
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 3: Now, iron phosphate has kind of sucked because it's lower

916
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 3: energy and it's cheaper, so it's kind of like the

917
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 3: cheaper nasty Poorman's cell.

918
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: And it's been really.

919
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 3: Developed a lot, particularly by the Chinese, and actually it's

920
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: it's its energy capacity is growing quite healthily of late,

921
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 3: and it's got the added an'tig it can take a

922
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 3: lot of power charging. So I think there's a real

923
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 3: argument for less lower range cars with lfpece cells and

924
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 3: more mature infrastructure not to go so far extenseve. Yes,

925
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 3: you take a mass hit, but with lucid efficiency, then

926
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 3: with the mass hit becomes less because we're carrying less

927
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 3: less solace. And then okay, you have to charge a

928
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 3: bit more often, but it's really fast when you do change.

929
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 3: So you're thinking then about like stopping for seven or

930
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 3: eight minutes rather than fifteen minutes, and and so it's

931
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 3: going to be more stop and go.

932
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: And that's what buyd and the Chinese Manufac.

933
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 3: There byd Goshen. There's there's several they're really taking a

934
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 3: lead in this blade type LFP technology, and I think

935
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 3: it has its place. I think for a performance premium car,

936
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 3: cylindrical lithium ions mcs are the right solutions still and

937
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 3: I think they will have their place alongside LFP.

938
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: So it sounds like you're fairly impressed with the technology

939
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 2: in the EV space coming out of China. I believe

940
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: was it last year BYD passed Tesla for the highest

941
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 2: selling EV manufacturer.

942
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: I believe you're right.

943
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 2: So China is going to be a force out there.

944
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: We're not currently allowing those cars into the United States.

945
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 2: I don't know if that changes anytime soon. What do

946
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 2: you think of the technology that you know that not

947
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: just the battery technology but the whole automobile. Is China

948
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,240
Speaker 2: going to be a major player in the EV space?

949
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 3: Bigknie tariffs announced in Europe as well. So my take

950
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 3: on China is this that their vehicle engineering has advanced

951
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 3: to a shocking degree in a good way in the

952
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 3: last three years. I can't believe how much better their

953
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 3: cards are. Battery technology for LFP, they're in a leadership position.

954
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 3: The powertrain technology is still several years behind Tesla, and

955
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 3: Tesla's several years behind us, but don't underestimate them. I mean,

956
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 3: if they can transform their vehicle, I want to talk

957
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 3: about vehicle engineering, I mean fit and finish door slam

958
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: with noise, ceiling materials, comfort.

959
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: In Let me interrupt you, traditional attribute, Let.

960
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 2: Me interrupt you. The thing that I have been so

961
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 2: impressed with the Lucids i've seen is you not only

962
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 2: come from an automotive background, whereas Tesla is a little

963
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: more of a technology but it feels like a luxury car.

964
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: The fit and finish is outstanding, the materials is excellent. Like,

965
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: it's obvious you want to compete with Mercedes Tesla. But

966
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: the thing I have to ask about is the US

967
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 2: has shifted to a giant suv market. Tell us about gravity.

968
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 2: When are we going to see the first suv with

969
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: a four hundred or five hundred mile range from Lucid.

970
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:06,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

971
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 3: And first of all, with the luxury, we wanted to

972
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 3: endow the car with a quiet luxury and understated luxury,

973
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 3: but really high quality materials in a very understated sort

974
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 3: of a California inspired design sensibility, and that's often misinterpreted

975
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 3: and it's not true luxury. Well it's not ostentatious luxury. Now,

976
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 3: it's understated, quiet luxury. So moving on to gravity. You ask,

977
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,959
Speaker 3: so Gravity is scheduled for starter production late this year.

978
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: Oh?

979
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: Really, yes, absolutely.

980
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 3: It's going to be a seminal product. It's going to

981
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 3: be the best suv on the planet. Nothing less will suffice.

982
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 2: Well, when will consumers first be able to purchase these.

983
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 3: We haven't announced precise purchase start of purchase which scheduled

984
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 3: for starter production late this year. Realistically, the ramp up

985
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 3: in production will take place during the early part of

986
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 3: next year, so watch this space for an announcement in

987
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 3: terms of availability.

988
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 2: And are we aiming about a comparable price to the.

989
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 3: Air Yeah, I see a starting point of just under

990
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 3: eighty thousand dollars for a variant of gravity.

991
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's essential.

992
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 2: And I know I only have you for about five minutes.

993
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 2: I have to ask one question that we didn't get to.

994
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: You're the CEO of a public company. I know that

995
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: comes with all sorts of obligations and dare I say headaches?

996
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: How do you feel about being public? How is your

997
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: capital setup? Are you comfortable that you could go the

998
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 2: distance to the twenty thirties? What are your thoughts about

999
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 2: being a public company and having access to the capital markets.

1000
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 3: Well, I take more responsibilities very seriously. It is a

1001
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 3: way to my shoulders, but it's one that I can carry.

1002
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 3: I'm comfortable with what we're doing. I think we we

1003
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 3: can conduct ourselves in an incredibly ethical manner. I'm very

1004
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 3: committed to this company, and I'm all in. I've never

1005
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 3: sold a single share in the company ever.

1006
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: And I've had a giant run up when it came yes.

1007
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 3: Actually, and actually that that triggered some of my performance

1008
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 3: stock options, which are based my stock options performance package

1009
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 3: was based entirely upon share price, and so all that

1010
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 3: remuneration was due to performance related stock options, which I triggered.

1011
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: I've not I've not sold a single share other than

1012
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 3: the ones that I just had to for tax purposes.

1013
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: And so I'm all in.

1014
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 3: On this company. I am resolutely optimistic. I think we've

1015
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 3: got the best car in the world at the moment.

1016
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: In the Lucid Air.

1017
01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 3: We're out selling Porsche, Tychan and Mercedes. Here in the US,

1018
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 3: we're out selling bw I seven, We're out selling the

1019
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: Etron e GT. And this this is a company that

1020
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 3: many people still haven't even heard of.

1021
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: Lisid any plans for a two door coop a sports car.

1022
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 3: I'd love to do it, but we've got laser commitment.

1023
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 3: We have to focus on the big ones. Gravity, So

1024
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 3: we got air now Gravity is coming, and then the

1025
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 3: really big one, the mid size platform, the more affordable

1026
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 3: forty eight fifty thousand dollars car. We've got a laser

1027
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 3: focus upon that and something else, a technology roadmap, which

1028
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 3: excites me the most because no one else is staying still.

1029
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 3: This is a technological race, and we have to keep

1030
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 3: running because if you don't run, others will catch you up.

1031
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 3: And the best defense we have is to keep our

1032
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 3: tech roadmap intact. And that's what excites me the most.

1033
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 2: So last question before I let you get on with

1034
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: the rest of your New York tour, take me to

1035
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 2: the early twenty thirties. Where do you want to be

1036
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: in units you're selling? How many different models do you

1037
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 2: want to sell? What does Lucid look like seven years

1038
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 2: from now in twenty thirty one.

1039
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 3: I believe we can be a healthy company. I think

1040
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 3: that what is not recognized is that our technological advantage today,

1041
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 3: which is seen as a burden, it will become a

1042
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 3: cost down enabler and therefore we will operate be able

1043
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 3: to operate at a better gross margin. Because of that,

1044
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 3: our very technology will be a gross margin enhancer, which

1045
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 3: will give us a profitability edge. And by the early

1046
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 3: twenty thirties. I'd like us to be seen selling no

1047
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 3: less than a million cars a year, because that's what

1048
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 3: it takes to have a meaningful impact upon the environment.

1049
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 3: But I also want this multiplier effect with our tech

1050
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 3: licensing business because what the world needs is the twenty

1051
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 3: five to thirty thousand dollars corp. And I don't think

1052
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 3: that's the business we Lucid as a company and our

1053
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: shareholders deserve, because it's all about volume, low margins. But

1054
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 3: I think others could manufacture that having access to our

1055
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 3: will leading technology, and with that multiplier effect, we truly

1056
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 3: can have an impact upon the environment and therefore the

1057
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 3: future mankind.

1058
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff. Thanks Peter for being so generous with your time.

1059
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 2: We have been speaking with Peter Rawlinson, Lucid CEO and CTO.

1060
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 2: If you enjoy this conversation, well, be sure and check

1061
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: out any of our previous five hundred discussions over the

1062
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: past ten years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube,

1063
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 2: wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Check out my new podcast,

1064
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 2: at the Money, Conversations with experts about the most important

1065
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: issues affecting your money, earning it, spending it, and most

1066
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 2: importantly investing it at the money wherever you find your

1067
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 2: favorite podcasts, and here in the Masters in Business feed.

1068
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 2: I would be remiss if I did not thank a

1069
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: crack staff who helps us put these conversations together each week.

1070
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 2: John Wasserman is my audio engineer. Attika of Albron is

1071
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 2: my project manager. Jean Russo is my researcher. Anna Luke

1072
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 2: is my producer. Special thanks to Sarah Livesey for help

1073
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: putting this together this week. I'm Barry Ritolts. You've been

1074
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio