1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Hi everybody. Robert Evans here and my novel After the 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Revolution is available for pre order now from a k 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: press dot org. Now, if you go to a k 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: press dot org you can find After the Revolution. Just 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: google a k press dot org After the Revolution you'll 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: find a list of participating indie bookstores selling my book. 7 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: And if you pre order now from either these independent 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: bookstores or from a k Press, you'll get a custom 9 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: signed copy of the book, which I think is pretty cool. 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: You can also pre order it in physical or in 11 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: kindle form from Amazon or pretty much wherever books are sold. 12 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: So please google a k press after the Revolution um 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: or find an indie bookstore in your area and pre 14 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: order it. You'll get assigned a copy and you'll make 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: me very happy. So this is episode six. You know, 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: we're what eight hours into talking about Mr Kissinger. Yeah, 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: really meet me from eight hours ago, buddy. It's like 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: when Bill and Ted meet each other halfway through and 19 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: they don't another journey they're about to go upon. Yeah, buddy, 20 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: le up. So the things the thing that Kissinger gets 21 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: the most credit for that we haven't mentioned. We we've 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 1: talked about a bunch of the things that he gets 23 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: credit for is bringing peace to the Middle East. Um, 24 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: he does get credit for being that guy. Obviously he 25 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: did not do that, but he did play a significant 26 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: role in stopping what had been a decade's long cycle 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: of wars between Israel and the Arab nations around it. Now, 28 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: to call that bringing peace would be ignoring a tremendous 29 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: amount of ongoing violence against the Palestinian people. But Kissinger 30 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: did help ensure Like you know, there were all these 31 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: different like everyone would invade, YadA, YadA, YadA, there'd be 32 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of fighting. That doesn't really happen anymore. And 33 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: Kissinger is part of why that doesn't happen anymore. The 34 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: gist of it is that on October sixth, nineteen seventy three, 35 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: on Yam kapoor Um, Egypt and Syria launched a coordinated 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: assault on Israel that for a time threatened the state's 37 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: very existence. Kissinger had not spent much of his time 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: working on Mid East related stuff up to this point. 39 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: This was partly because Nixon thought having a Jewish man 40 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: negotiate with Arab countries would be a had idea. UM. 41 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: It was also because Kissinger was kind of buried in 42 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: Vietnam stuff right. But by October of seventy three, negotiations 43 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: with Hannoi had been concluded, US forces had stepped back 44 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: from an active role, and Kissinger had been awarded a 45 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize with his Vietnamese counterpart Le Ducto. Absolutely now, 46 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: I can't. There's no counter argument. Absolutely no, he he 47 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: nailed it. Um, I mean now, Nobel Peace Prize. It 48 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: really doesn't. I mean, they must hit sometimes. I'm just 49 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: familiar with a lot of the nose, though it seems 50 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: mostly to be misss in my experience. When he got that, 51 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: that's called the no. Yeah. And you know who felt 52 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: that way, Gareth Lee Ducto, who was also awarded the 53 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: Noble Peace Prize with Kissinger. I don't want mine. I 54 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: don't want mine. Yeah. He literally was like, no, I'm 55 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: not going to take it. The war isn't over yet. 56 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: Like all he's done. All we've done is negotiate the 57 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: US no longer murdering people on the scale they had been, 58 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: and he's in charge of it. Yeah. And its specifically, 59 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: he was angry because right before the armistice was signed, 60 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: in order to like try and force Hannoi to agree 61 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: on some points, Kissing Your orchestrated a massive nighttime bombing 62 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: campaign on Christmas of Hanoi. Um, they didn't bomb on 63 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: Christmas Day, just the day before, in a bunch of 64 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: the days after. But it gets called the Christmas bombing. 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: We're worried we'll hit center. Jolly blood on my hands. 66 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: So Lee Docto was like, I don't I'm not going 67 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: to take an award for peace with this guy. Suck him. 68 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: So Kissing Your accepted it alone. Oh my god, he's 69 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: such a cool dude. He's such a cool dude. More 70 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: credit for me. I can't believe I'm the only one 71 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: who go out that this year. I must be really 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: good at this stuff. So yeah, he's like the con 73 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: wet Kanye of the Nobel Peace Price. Right right right, Sorry, 74 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: you did great, But Kissinger had the best water of 75 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: all time, of all time. It would have been really 76 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: funny if Henry Kissinger had like shoved Taylor Swift off stage. 77 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: You have the great, great piece, but come on talking 78 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: about the baby. So by October of seventy three, Kissinger 79 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: is free and clear and ready to get it on 80 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: in the Middle East. And this actually went better than 81 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: you might think. Weirdly enough, Henry Kissinger was probably one 82 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: of the fairest negotiators the United States ever sent into 83 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: that conflict. In fact, he was more or less in 84 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: constant tension with Israel because he would do stuff like 85 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: try to halt arms shipments there, like during the Okimpor War. 86 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: Right Israel's on a backfoot, They're in real danger of 87 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: being overrun. They want US weapons and like US arms 88 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: and a bunch more F four Phantom planes, and Nixon 89 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: agrees to give them to him, but Kissinger's like, we're 90 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: not giving them anything until they can arrange for commercial 91 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: flights to ship the weapons to them, because I don't 92 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: want I'm trying to negotiate with UM, with Syria and Egypt, 93 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: and if they see US military aircraft landing in UM 94 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: Jerusalem to give the Israeli's weapons, that's gonna funk up 95 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: my negotiations. So like, he's actually really unpopular with a 96 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: lot of folks in Israel because he does stuff like this. 97 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: UM And in fact, Kissingers and obviously like every US 98 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: negotiator in this conflict, Kissinger is more on israel side 99 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: than anyone, but he's it's probably fair to say he's 100 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: less on Israel side than any other negotiator we ever 101 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: put in there, which is like some weird It sounds 102 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: like he's the most progressive because I mean, like obviously 103 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: we had we could give a funk. You know, he's 104 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: not a Zionist. For one thing. He doesn't have like 105 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: there's not a you know, he's Jewish, but he's not 106 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: really that. Like there there is some amount of, like 107 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: as a Holocaust survivor. He believes strongly that, like you know, 108 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: Israel needs to exist, so he does have that going 109 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,239 Speaker 1: for him. Again. He eventually agrees to ship them weapons 110 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: on US planes after it becomes enough of an issue, 111 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: but he like still moment of principles. The fact that 112 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: there's like any of that at all is weird. Yeah, 113 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: I mean like he probably had like a little Nixon 114 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: on his shoulder, who was like, I know, you're just 115 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: gonna be a jew about them, and he was like, no, 116 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: I will not not devil Nixon. It's weird how plugged 117 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: in you are to how Nixon reacts to everything exactly. Yeah, 118 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: oh man, So Kissinger's best relationship in the Middle East 119 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: wound up being with anwar Sadat the president of Egypt. 120 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: The two like we're legitimately good buddies. They would kiss 121 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: each other on the cheek like they liked each other. 122 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: They found the one. Yeah. Meanwhile, Kissinger and Gold of 123 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: My Ear, which was the leader of Israel, had a 124 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: really contentious relationship. Um. At the end of the day, 125 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: Kissinger again would always side with Israel on existential issues, 126 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: but he wound up giving them a lot more ship 127 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: than you might expect. Now. The fact that the US 128 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: eventually sends in arms turns the war around for Israel, 129 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: which allows them their forces to deal decisive blows to 130 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: Egyptian and Syrian militaries. But once Israel was out of 131 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: kind of the period of most risk for them as 132 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: a state, Kissinger starts to push back on them even harder. 133 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: He's particularly enraged at the fact that they kept attacking 134 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: while he was trying to negotiate a ceasefire. Um. And again, 135 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: his main concern here this is not because he just 136 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: wants to stop the blood letting. It's really important to 137 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: him to negotiate a peace and it be seen as 138 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger brought peace to the Middle East, So he's 139 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: pissed that they're fucking over his negotiations. And he cares 140 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: more about his reputation than he does about Israeli military 141 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: success forgetting about the people of Kissinger. Yes, exactly, the 142 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: real chosen people. So when Israeli forces surround the Egyptian 143 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: Third Army and encircle it, violating a ceasefire, Kissinger is 144 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: livid um and he's particularly angry. We're not getting as 145 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: much into this aspect of his beliefs, but his whole 146 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: thing in this period, the reason he organs like as 147 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: we talked about in our China episode, and this like 148 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: three way to a messy thing that he deals with 149 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: China and the Soviet Union. Um, he wants what's called 150 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: a balance of power. That's his whole thing. He's he 151 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: gets a he's a he's a big cold warrior. Obviously 152 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: he overthrows a lot of communist governments, but he's not 153 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: one of these people who thinks we can eliminate communism. Instead, 154 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: he really wants like this balance of power, and he 155 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: wants a balance of power in the Middle East between 156 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: Israel and her neighbors too. And he's lived about in 157 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: part that they violated the ceasefire. But he's also worried that, 158 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: like well, if the Israelis wipe out the Egyptian third Army, 159 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: that's going to mean Egypt is humiliated. And if they're humiliated, 160 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: Sadat can't actually make peace and there's going to be 161 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: another war. And I want to try and stop the 162 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: next war. Which but he is like broadly on the 163 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: right side of this um. Yeah. Over the course of 164 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: several chaotic days, he makes numerous trips between each of 165 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: the belligerent nations in this war, negotiating with their heads 166 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: of state, and one of his primary tactics is to 167 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: mock whoever he'd just been talking to when he's in 168 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: front of the next person. So like that guy, yeah, 169 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: when he's so when he's dealing with Hafes asad Or 170 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: and Sadat, this means talking shit about the Israelis and 171 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: often Jewish people in general to get on their good side. 172 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: So when Israel violates that ceasefire, he has heard to 173 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: complain at a meeting quote, if it were not for 174 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: the accident of my birth, I would be anti Semitic. 175 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god. On another occasion, he says, quote, and 176 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: I need to remind you, this is a Holocaust survivor 177 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: saying this, boy, any people who have been persecuted for 178 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: two thousand years. Must be doing something wrong. Jesus Christ, 179 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: he fucking said that. Holy sh it, man, we are 180 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: just we are just such fucking assholes. I'm on fire, 181 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm just now is so good down he kills at 182 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: the clubs in Damascus, And yeah, he is actually like 183 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: really popular with not all because there are other we 184 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: have quotes from other like people who are like particularly 185 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: other Egyptian military leaders under Sadat who are like well, 186 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: Sadat's fallen forward. He's obviously just saying whatever he thinks 187 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: will make us like him like he doesn't. Clearly he 188 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: can't believe this ship. He's just trying to like. There 189 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: are people who see through it, but he he's able 190 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: to trick The folks who matter, which is in this 191 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: case are Sadat and and hafez Um. So all that aside. 192 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: This period is again, broadly speaking, the one where Kissinger 193 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: does the most actual good. But it's worth noting that 194 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: even when he's on the right side of things. I 195 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: think negotiating an end to a war is generally the 196 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: right thing to do when there's a war, um. But 197 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: even when he's on the right side of things, his 198 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: ego plays a massive and often toxic role in how 199 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: everything shakes out. See, well, all this is going on, 200 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: Nixon is barreling towards impeachment, and a big part of 201 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: why he's constantly over there, Like while all of the 202 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: big milestones in the Watergate case hit, Like when when 203 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: Nixon is like ordering the cover up and ship and 204 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: doing the things that will get him impeached, Kissinger is 205 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: always away, Like he's like very studiously as soon as 206 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: the story breaks, like I need to be overseas as 207 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: much as fucking possible. So is it possible. He's competently 208 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: trying to negotiate Middle East piece because he's trying to 209 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: save his own ass and does Yeah, that is literally 210 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: what's going on. Because he's he's not a dumb man. 211 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: He sees that Nixon is fucked, and he doesn't like 212 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: when I can't just be doing nothing. Yeah, and why 213 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: don't I actually try to make this work? I guess 214 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm in another trouble domestically. Yeah, I mean that's it. 215 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Like he wants to because part of it is he 216 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: doesn't want to be near Nixon because Nixon's toxic, and 217 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: part of it is like, well if if the last 218 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: thing everyone remembers about Henry while Nixon is going down 219 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: is that he ended war in the Middle East. I'm 220 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: gonna keep being Secretary of State. You know. There's a 221 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: friend of mine who had this theory when he was 222 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: like he said, when it might even be a bit 223 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: I don't remember. When he's in like a ride share, 224 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: he won't talk, and then the last two minutes he'll 225 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: just take great interest. So he leaves on a real 226 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: high note. And so it's like he's kind of like 227 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: distant and not really doing much, and then the last 228 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: two minutes and be like, oh that sounds great, well, 229 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: good luck with your family. And then so that's kind 230 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: of like he's just trying to leave, like leave on 231 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: a high note. So the last thing he's going to 232 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: try to do is actually decent after a bunch of bullshit. Yeah, 233 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: when I when I enter a party, I set off 234 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: an I e ed at the start of it, so 235 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: everyone's really like shaken up. But then at the end 236 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: I handle it a six pack of beer, and right 237 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: that means everybody is like, you know, that was the 238 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: guy who dropped the idea, Oh, come on, he's the 239 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: six pack guy in my opinion. That's who that guy is. 240 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: That is how Henrica Securr handle everything. So yeah, now again, 241 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: but here here's the thing. The fact that like this 242 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: is all existential for Henry right, ending the war in 243 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: in between Israel and in her neighbors is like he 244 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: knows he has to do this or he's not going 245 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: to keep his gig um. So not only is he 246 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: trying to negotiate peace, but he can't let anyone else 247 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: play a role in bringing peace to the Middle East, right, 248 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: because this is how this is his job interview and 249 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: you know how Henry kissing your treats job. You've seen 250 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: what he'll do for a job interview, right, he won't 251 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: do to get a job. I'd like, I can see 252 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: that list. So this becomes a problem when while this 253 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: is all going on, this Egyptian and Israeli general, you've 254 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: got this massive encircled Egyptian army, the Egyptian general in 255 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: charge of that in the Israeli general like meet each 256 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: other in the field between their armies and like sit 257 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: down and start negotiating a ceasefire and figuring out how 258 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: to pull like they start like talk like people like 259 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: it's one of these weird moments in military history where 260 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: these guys are like, I think we can work something out, 261 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: Like we don't need to be doing this anymore. Shoot 262 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: the bit, kill them quick. So Henry is enraged when 263 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: he hears this happening, and he's still and he starts again. 264 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: All these people who, like in any other situation, neither 265 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: like in Israeli general or in Egyptian general in the 266 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, not guys you would expect to be the 267 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: voices of reason, but because his kissingers in the story. Yeah, 268 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: so he starts maneuvering to make these guys shut the 269 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: funk up. Um. He sends a letter to the Israeli 270 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: ambassador asking what does Yarev? Yarev's the Israeli general selling here, 271 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: tell him to stop. Suppose Yahrev comes out a great 272 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: hero on disengagement, what do you discuss on December eighteenth, 273 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: which is the next round of negotiations. I mean, he's 274 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: such yeah, I mean, it's just what a heinous asshole. 275 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like he could still tell the 276 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: credit towards him, but he's like, I love my fingerprint, 277 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: sole I don't want to like get too into like 278 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: what might have happened. Because I'm not an expert on 279 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: either Egyptian or Israeli military history, but you have to 280 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: think maybe it would have and good if like an 281 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: Israeli general and an Egyptian general had like brought peace 282 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: to the conflict, and like maybe that had been part 283 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: of the military legacy in the area. Might have been nice. 284 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. We're staring down the battle of a 285 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: tragedy right now not recognized as the one so Kissinger 286 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: A biography continues the story quote at Kissinger's behest, both 287 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: Sadat and my year reigned in their generals at the 288 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: kilometer one on one talks that's like where this army 289 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: is encircled. The Israeli ambassador, although a Kissinger partisan, felt 290 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: that it was largely a matter of ego. Kissinger's view 291 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: was that if any concessions were to be made, they 292 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: should be made by him. Then it's recalled. He was 293 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: very upset when he found out that things were actually 294 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: being settled by the general's at Kilometer one on one. 295 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: We had to make them stop. Ego was a weakness 296 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: of his, but it was also the source of his greatness, 297 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: which I might with the weakness is understating, yes, I'm 298 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: in an air strike. Can we can we kill both generals? 299 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: And if we're going to find no generals, these guys 300 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: are getting a long way too well. And I didn't 301 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: I wasn't there. Listen, Dick, I know the Watergate stuff 302 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: has you, but can we invade both countries? Come? So 303 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: to his sort of credit though, the piece that Henry 304 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: helped negotiate into the Yom Kipper War would prove to 305 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: be durable, and it's set up diplomatic relations between Egypt 306 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: and Israel for the next time. There's this very powerful 307 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: moment when like gold of my Year, because like Sadak 308 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: still can't talk directly to Israel. There's a whole like 309 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: diplomatic thing going on. But he tells Kissinger to tell 310 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: her like I'm taking off my military uniform and I'm 311 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: never going to wear it again, basically like things do. 312 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: Like this is a really like good move in a 313 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: lot of ways. Obviously that you could say this also 314 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: like paves the way for nobody ever coming to help 315 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: the Palestinians again, which is worth noting, but it does 316 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: bring it into this series of like constant wars um. 317 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, what an amazing risk to take the to 318 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: be like you guys, stop, We'll do my version. We 319 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: gotta do it my way, Yeah, the Franks then of 320 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: Middle East peace negotiations. That is kind of the reputation 321 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: he gets because obviously this plays incredibly well for Americans, 322 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: and so Nick's Kissinger is seen as still this like 323 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: massive hero, even while this is a big part of 324 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: why he's so popular, even as the rest of the 325 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: Edmund goes down in flames. Now, this inaugurates a period 326 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: of what comes to be known as shuttle diplomacy. That's 327 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: a term you'll hear associated with Kissinger all the time, 328 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: and it's him flying all these different countries in the 329 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: Middle East and in Africa, him flying from like capital 330 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: to capital for weeks on end, doing these negotiations where 331 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: he's always the man in the center of things. Um 332 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: Henry actually kind of grew addicted to throwing himself in 333 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: the middle of international crises and flying NonStop between capitals 334 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: to do these negotiations. It was this and the popularity 335 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: he earned from being seen as a peacemaker that arranteed 336 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: him to keep his job in Ford's cabinet. One of 337 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: the few upsides to Kissinger's career prior to the seventies 338 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: is that he hadn't really fucked with Africa to any 339 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: appreciable degree. Now this is not because Henry Kissinger would 340 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: have an issue with fucking with Africa, but it is 341 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: because the US, like, we didn't have a huge footprint 342 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: and the continent until the sixties. You know, that's just 343 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: there's so many to ruin. Yeah, yeah, this is like 344 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: him learning Spanish. He just never found the time. Anyone. 345 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: I'm a little older than I get the times I 346 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: can ruin. So um. Yeah. The the US footprint in 347 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: Africa started up when the c I in like the 348 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: early sixties. I think when the CIA murdered or allowed 349 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: other people to murder. It's a little unclear. Patrice Lamumba, 350 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: the left wing democratically elected leader of the Congo. The 351 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: US backed a right wing general. Well even calling like 352 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: right and left are less useful terms of this, but 353 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: we back a general called Joseph Mubutu, who proceeded to 354 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: spend the next couple decades robbing the country blind. It 355 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: seems like a pattern. Yeah, it happened. It's it's weird 356 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: that it keeps happening all the time. UM. While there 357 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: was other U S factory in Africa throughout the sixties 358 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: and early seventies, it stated a fairly low EBB until 359 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: April of nineteen seventy five, when Saigon fell to North 360 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: Vietnam now known as just Vietnam. Nineteen seventy five was 361 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: known by some in the media as the Year of Intelligence, 362 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: not because any particularly good decisions were being made, but 363 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,239 Speaker 1: because Congress was investigating the presidency over Watergate, and there 364 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: was this big flood of public questions about clandestine foreign 365 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: actions carried out under the ages of Cold War politics. 366 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff we were talking about in 367 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: episodes like two, three, and four had started to leak 368 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: by this point, and so people are like, there's this 369 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: big national discussion about like what the what should we 370 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: be doing? All the should we have like a CIA, 371 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: like should we maybe? And there are like the CIA 372 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: gets like the there's a reforming of the CIA that 373 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: occurs in this period. You can, yeah, you a question 374 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: the degree to which it mattered. M Yeah, it may 375 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: have made them less good at doing the bad things 376 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: that they did, um, but not for lack of trying 377 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: hard to imagine it's the reform in the CIA is 378 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: the difference between overthrowing salvador I end and those like 379 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: us guys pissing themselves in Venezuela after getting like arrested 380 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: by fishermen. Um. For Henry Kissinger, though, the Year of 381 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: Intelligence was a year where he spent trying to reorient 382 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: the United States towards a new anti communist conflict. His 383 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: target this time was the nation of Angola. Now, Angola 384 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: is a mid sized African nation located on the southwest 385 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: coast of the continent, directly under the Congo and directly 386 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: above Namibia. It's close enough to South Africa to get 387 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: fucked with, but not so close that they can just 388 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: send troops right over the border. You know, which is 389 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: a better place to be than directly bordering South Africa 390 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: in this period. In nineteen sixty one, the people there 391 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: are decided to have themselves a good old fashioned war 392 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: of independence which lasted thirteen years, killed tens of thousands 393 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: of people, and only ended when a coup overthrew the 394 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: dictator of Portugal. Now this coup was, by the way, 395 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: very weird. Most sources will describe it as a left 396 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: wing coup against the dictator. The reality is a lot 397 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: more muddled. The guy who winds up in charge of 398 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: Portugal on paper is a monocle wearing general um who's 399 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: like him already yeah yeah, and he's not really leftist, 400 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: but the powers behind him are some very left wing 401 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: army officers. They form a new democratic government, which includes 402 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: several elected communist leaders. So Portugal has like elected communist deputies. 403 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: Now Henry Kissinger flips the funk out at this. He 404 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: is certain the country will fall to Soviet influence. Interestingly, 405 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: like this datent he's worked at with the Soviets. A 406 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: big part of it is this idea that like, well, 407 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: the Soviets have their sphere of influence in the East, 408 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: and we have like the West has its sweet sphere 409 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: of influence in Western Europe and the So it's kind 410 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: of hold to that here because they don't get involved 411 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: in Portugal. They don't like try to make push things 412 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: further in their direction. Henry is like convinced they're going 413 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: to and is absolutely wrong because paranoia from Nixon. He 414 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: was like, well, yeah, yeah, um, Portugal eventually elects other people. 415 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: Like again, the government stays fairly left wing by his standards, 416 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: but like it does not as you might notice it 417 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: does not join the Iron curtain, you know, right, It's yeah, 418 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: Kissinger is just like there's we have some quotes from 419 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: He's absolutely certain that like they're about to go full Stalinist, 420 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: because again he's wrong about most things. Actually, he does 421 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: not have a good understanding of like what's going to 422 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: happen anywhere. No, it's just almost at this point he's 423 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: hunt around so long that you're kind of just like, 424 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: I guess he must know. I mean you want to 425 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: know about He's probably like he like he must know something. 426 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: I think it's worth looking at, like what happens, like 427 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: Henry's expectations for what's going to happen in Portugal versus 428 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: what happens, and then think back to Chile where like 429 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: Hendry's like is gonna lead to they're gonna go full 430 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: communeist and it's going to be you know, no, maybe 431 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: if I had stated in power there just wouldn't have 432 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: been a dictator and things would have been fine, and 433 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: they would have had a lot less problems than they 434 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: see how many people die in the communist version, Yeah, 435 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: probably less. The puppets that we put in power are 436 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: not like these amazing like peacekeepers it's just it's just 437 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: like everyone, We're like the Midas of genocides. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 438 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: So the biggest international result of the coup is that 439 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: the new Portuguese government had no stomach for colonies, right. Uh. 440 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: They negotiate a treaty with the three largest militant groups 441 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: in Angola in seventy five. These were the f n 442 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: l A, the mp l A, and UNITA. Um. The 443 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: non acronym names of all these groups are in French. 444 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: I am I'm not I'm not even gonna try absolute. Um. 445 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: What you need to know is that the mp l 446 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: A were Marxists, right, Um, kind of Marxists. They were 447 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: formed at least the chanization had been formed by members 448 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: of angles intelligencia who were Marxist, and Marxism had like 449 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: a big influence on the m p l A. Unfortunately, 450 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: like yeah meanwhile, like kind of so that's one faction. 451 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: The fn l A and UNITA are are generally described 452 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: as being right wing groups. But this is one of 453 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: those things where like grafting Western political terms onto the 454 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: civil war and Angola does not work great. Um. All 455 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: of these groups, even the ostensibly Marxist m p l A, 456 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: are very tribal in origin, and by that I mean 457 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: like they are based on specific tribal grievances and tribal 458 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: like like arguments, right, that are going on in the region. 459 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: Um as opposed to like being clearly like, well we're 460 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: pro communist, we're anti communists, Like that's really less of 461 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: what's going on. Made. Yeah. Um For an example of 462 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: how useless a strict ideological lens is here, UNITA was 463 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: initially very left wing and its messaging attacking the United 464 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: States as quote the notorious agents of imperialism. Unitis fighters 465 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: were literally really trained by North Korean soldiers, but by 466 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: the end of the civil war in Angola, they had 467 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: been receiving arms from the Reagan administration for years, brokered 468 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: via their paid representative, Paul Manifort. So that's the kind 469 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: of war this is where like United starts off being 470 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: like we're gonna end American imperialism, and by the end 471 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: they're like, Paul Manafort, get us weapons. If you're get 472 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: next to this manifest character, it's a good time. Yeah, 473 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: just like to show you how weird this is. Technically, 474 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: in the Angolan Civil War, Paul Manafort and North Korea 475 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: are on the same side, I feel like fifty years old. Yeah, um, yeah, 476 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean and by the end it is fair to 477 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: say that, like by the end of the Civil war, 478 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: United's like leader Jonah Sambi is calling himself an anti communist, 479 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: that's his messaging, but he's less about anti communism. And 480 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: again they're specific local grievances he has with the m 481 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: p l A, and like that's more why they're fighting 482 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: than that he like believes strongly in anti communism. He 483 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: just knows that's how you get weapons. Okay, that's right. 484 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: He speaking the language, right, Yeah, and when North Korea 485 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: is training his guys, he's not into jua, you know, 486 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: He's like he wants to train his guys. Yeah. Right now. 487 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: The fn l A is led by a guy named 488 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: and that's the other usually called a right wing faction, 489 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: is led by a guy named Holden Roberto who used 490 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: to work with Sevimbi before sevenby formed United. I know, 491 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: this is a very complicated conflict. I'm sorry. Um. They're 492 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: generally described as like right wing, and they did receive 493 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: aid from the CIA, so that would like okay, yeah, 494 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: definitely right wing getting aid from the CIA. They also 495 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: got military aid from China. Romania, India, Algeria, ZI Year, 496 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: the A f L C I O, and the Ford 497 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: Foundation or at least aid of some sort. So it 498 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: gets like the sides here are just fucking baffling, Like 499 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: the tender Swindler. There's working every side. Yeah, China, the 500 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: C I A and the A f L C I 501 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: O shaking hands over backing. Yeah, it's like big brother, 502 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: what you guys here too? We Foundation, Wow. The m 503 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: p l A, which these again are the kind of 504 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,959 Speaker 1: Marxist guys and if you're of the three factions, they 505 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: are the ones who most do believe in like a 506 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: political thing that like we would recognize in terms of 507 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: like left right sides. They are partly armed by the 508 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, which should not be surprising, but most of 509 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: their military aid comes from Cuba, and we're not really 510 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: going to get into it, but it's worth noting, like 511 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: how substantial Cuban aid is to the m p l A. 512 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: Cuba starts sending soldiers to Angola in November of seventy five, 513 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: and by they had more than fifty five thousand soldiers 514 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: in the country, and like that's a trick. I don't 515 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: know if you guys know this but Cuba in the 516 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: west coast of Africa not super close. Yeah. Yeah, it's 517 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: it's a bit of a jaunt, yeah uh. And that's 518 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: also a long involvement. You know, they're in there more 519 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: than a decade um. There's a lot of commitment here, 520 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: so as is generally Cuban. Now, as is generally the case, 521 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: all of the communists were not an agreement about Angola. 522 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: The People's Republic of China did not particularly care about 523 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: like a left wing struggle in Angola. They wanted to 524 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: keep Soviet power at bay on a continent where they 525 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: were starting to do some business themselves. So China and 526 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: the US work together to support the fn l A 527 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: and UNITA. This is exactly the sort of thing Kissinger 528 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: had been going for when he pushed to connect the 529 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: U S diplomatically to China. I want to quote now 530 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: from a write up by Maria Gouda of Wilford Laurier University. Quote. 531 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: This was part of Kissinger's grand strategy of triangular diplomacy. 532 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Triangular diplomacy was essentially the US exploiting the relationship between 533 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: communist China and the Soviet Union to create a three 534 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 1: way to taunt between the countries with the US at 535 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: the Helm. Kissinger was not pushing for covert operations through 536 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: the CIA in order to elevate American standing in China, 537 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: because Nixon and Kissinger were orchestrating something larger. This was 538 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: to use China as a counterweight against the Soviets. Kissinger's 539 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: emphasis on triangular diplomacy caused him to view regional conflict 540 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: in terms of involvement on the Chinese and the Soviets, 541 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: not in terms of a local struggle. So he very 542 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: much sees this as a battle ground between different ideologies. 543 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: But anyone who knows anything about the angles of orbit 544 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: knows that, like, no, that's not really what's going on. 545 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: Like everyone is, like everyone is in here, and it 546 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: is certainly not like about what kind of political ship 547 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: individual parties believe. Um, yeah, the side. You can't graph 548 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: these easily under like a Western axis. But as Isaacson writes, 549 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: Angla became quote a vivid example of Kissinger's tendency to 550 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: see complex local struggles in an East West context. In 551 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: all respect to Kissinger, wrote Jonathan Quitney in his study 552 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: of the Angolan War, one really has to question the 553 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: sanity of someone who looks at an ancient tribal dispute 554 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: over control of distant coffee fields and sees it as 555 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: a Soviet threat to the security of the United States. 556 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: I mean, what a guy. Yeah, it's like, I mean 557 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: it's also I mean it's it's so again. I mean, 558 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: the ego on this fucking dude to be able to 559 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: just go into things massive conflicts, have no clue and 560 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: make it that binary and think that he's doing anything. 561 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean, he's just he's just so emboldened. Yeah, he's emboldened. 562 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: He just like he's so arrogant that he's like, well, 563 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: I don't do me a favorite. Could some of you 564 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: wear red shirts and some of you wear blue kind 565 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: of time, let's do shirt skins. Huh. Yeah. I don't 566 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: need to, like Henry Kissinger, don't need to like understand 567 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: the actual dimensions of why these sides are fighting. I 568 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: can just assume that it graphs onto every other conflict 569 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: I've ever cared about. Knowledge is weakers. Yeah, and this 570 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: is like, He's not the only American to be arrogant 571 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: in this specific way about a conflict in Africa, but 572 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: the last he's the last one. He would be the 573 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: last thing last since then so c i A. Funding 574 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: for UNITA in the f n l A was initially 575 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: quite low, but Kissinger pushed for an escalation, and soon 576 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: the agency had poured twenty two million dollars in covert 577 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: support for both of these groups. Kissinger felt they were 578 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: thinking small, though. He believed that after suffering a public 579 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: defeat in Vietnam, US foreign policy needed to come back. 580 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: And yeah, baby, yeah, yeah, everybody cares what. Everyone's plugged in. 581 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: You're gonna love my new stuff. The problem with Vietnam 582 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: is that it was too distant from American concerns. And 583 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: that's it. That's the problem now. He yeah, So he 584 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: believes that, like Angola is going to be our fucking 585 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: comeback tour. It's the equivalent of I don't know one 586 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: one of the times Elton John did a did a 587 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: did a farewell tour. I got yeah something something like that. 588 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: He's not his night. Yeah, there's a lot of similarities 589 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: between Henry Kissinger and Elton John's musical Yeah Bumming Jets. Yeah. Actually, 590 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: tiny dancer that song is about is about Henry Kissinger. 591 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: He is a tiny dancwer. Um he's he is. He 592 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: is a little guy. So yeah, Kissinger wants to prove 593 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: that the United States is still a global power, and 594 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: he also wants to prove that Henry Kissinger has like 595 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: is still a Secretary of State with some teeth. You know, 596 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: he's just like seated a bunch to the fucking in 597 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: these negotiations with Vietnam. The big piece of mind to 598 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: Hendry Kissinger, Yeah, he is, like everyone is going to 599 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: see Vietnam as an l for me. So so yeah, 600 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: you could kind of see his attitude in Angola as 601 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: like the powerful sociopath version of buying a sports car 602 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: to impress like twenty year olds, like when you're you know, 603 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: an old man. Yeah right, he's his midlife for a crisis. 604 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: And the people around Kissinger are a lot less bullish 605 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: about escalating involvement in Angola. Uh and in fact this 606 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: includes like the fucking CIA, but they had really big 607 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: shoes to fill, to be Yeah, they're just like, we 608 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: don't want any part of this right now. Wow, you 609 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: guys are really negative, you guys. It's ala. Where is 610 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: the wind? Gotta be a fucking hole in one baby. 611 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: In June of seventy five, Kissinger holds a meeting with 612 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: President Ford, the Defense Secretary the Joint chiefs of Staff 613 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: and the head of the CIA. They discussed the invasion 614 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: of Angola, and while most of that meeting is still classified, 615 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: we know Kissinger urged what he called a diplomatic offensive quote, 616 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: if we appealed to the Soviets to not be active, 617 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: it will be a sign of weakness. He played on 618 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: stereotypes of Africa as mysterious and wild, claiming it is 619 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: an area where no one can be sure of its judgments. 620 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: Next Guda rights quote, revealing his talent for manipulation. Kissinger 621 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: used daunting and dramatic language to illustrate the situation in 622 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: Angola as he saw it, by giving the impression that 623 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: there was no way to tell how the Engolden civil 624 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: war would play out, kissing, You're pushed forward the idea 625 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: that the US had better get involved in Angola through 626 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: tangible or covert means before it was too late. The US, 627 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: through the CIA needed to support the f and l 628 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: A and united to repeat to prevent the dominance of 629 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: the Soviet backed m p l A. This view wholly 630 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: disregards the idea that the Angolan Civil War was indeed 631 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: that a civil war. Kissinger was positioning Angola in a 632 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: wider east first his West context. Oh my kids, you 633 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 1: got biggie, You've got Tupac. I mean, only the United 634 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,479 Speaker 1: States can want to be and like, only the United 635 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: States can be sold on getting involved in a conflict. 636 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: Or he's like, we have no clue what's going on, 637 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: so we gotta get that. Really throw our dicks in 638 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: this one. Come on, guys, let's get moving. It could 639 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: be crazy. And this is one where like the US 640 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: actually doesn't really want to get involved. Like this, Kissinger 641 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: is the one pulling everyone else in here. He's a 642 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: marketing wizard. Yeah, And and based on his urgings, the 643 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: CIA comes up with a plan called I a feature Um. 644 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: It was a covert par paramilitary operation in which US 645 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: military advisors and special forces would be sent to Angola 646 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: in a manner basically identical to how US involvement in 647 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: Vietnam started. Kissingers literally like, let's do that again, baby, 648 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: Let's see it goes pretty good? Will we do it? This? 649 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: This is how I get to bomb Namibia. That's my 650 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: vision board is dreams of flattening the Congo. I woke up, 651 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: I thought that I had done this. Now despite the 652 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: fact that the CIA did come up with this plan 653 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: at his behest. There's intense resistance within the agency, a 654 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: lot of whom think Kissinger has lost his fucking mind. 655 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: And thus CIA director William Colby joins our pantheon of 656 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 1: bad guys who seem reasonable because Henry Kissinger is involved. 657 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: So Kobe is like pretty rattled by how Vietnam ended 658 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: um and also by the fact that there's all these 659 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: congressional inquiries into like the c A doing a bunch 660 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: of other terrible ship right there actively being investigated right now. 661 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: So this isn't Koby being a good guy. This is 662 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: Kobe being like, I don't want to drive when I've 663 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: got you know, ship in the car basically right like 664 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm holding right now, you know what. Honestly, any other time, 665 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: I'm just fucking angle a crazy, like I'm just sucking 666 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: going nuts. But it's just not the right time. We 667 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: got it right right now. Yeah, he's the guy who's like, 668 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: he's like kiss it just like on a casino floor 669 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: and he's been cheating, and like the securities gathered and 670 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: they're whispering and pointing at him. He notices, and he's 671 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: still playing. He keeps going. He's gonna let it write 672 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: on black one more time many times hit me. So 673 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: the forty Committee, which again kissing your heads, approves I 674 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: a feature, but William Kolby is like, okay, but I'm 675 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: going to insist we actually go to Congress to have 676 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: the funds appropriated. That's branch those guys, what oh my god. 677 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: Versions So while Kissinger argues for his covert operators, South 678 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: Africa sends troops in to support the fn l A 679 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: and Unita, who it again originally been trained by North Korea. 680 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: So there's fin l A troops who received training from 681 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: both South Africa and North Korea. This is just a 682 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: very weird war. So China has the reaction we're all 683 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: having and it's like, you know what, this is too 684 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: messy for me. I don't even need this right now, 685 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: Like I got other ship going on. And they kind 686 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: of bounced from the situation. Okay. The Soviets and the Cubans, though, 687 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: extend more aid to the m p l A, who 688 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 1: win the war handily and installed themselves in the capital 689 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: Luwanda by the end of nineteen seventy five. So a 690 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: few weeks after this, the CIA holds an inter Agency 691 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: Working Group meeting with Kissinger to discuss how to ask 692 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 1: Congress to send in US advisors and like, at this point, 693 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: the war is lost and they're Kissingers like, no, we 694 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 1: gotta get some guys in there. No one else wants this, right, 695 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 1: they're all everyone else is like, this seems like way 696 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: more of a hassle. Come on, let's keep going shots. Yeah, 697 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: the CIA is already puking from how much they've had 698 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: to drink in Vietnam. Come on, I brought absence. Let's go, 699 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: so Kissinger or so, yeah, they have this meeting, um 700 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: and like, so Kissinger has a meeting with h one 701 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: of the like a guy in this with this a 702 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: bunch of people, and then like they hold a separate 703 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,959 Speaker 1: meeting afterwards with the CIA about what Kissinger had said. 704 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: So like basically Kissinger now yeah. So basically they present 705 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: Kissinger with a report on like what would have to 706 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: be done to send US advisors into Angola, and Kissinger 707 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: reads the report and rather than giving a yes or 708 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: a no, he grunts and walks out of his office. 709 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: So after this, all of these CIA guys have to 710 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: sit down and decide like what does Henrykissinger grunting mean? 711 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 1: But this guy was really good at deciphering what Henry 712 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: grunts mean. Well, gentlemen, it was a pretty long grunt, 713 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: which is never good. It's a sid grunt, which for 714 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: Henry means he's a little agitated. I'm gonna quote about 715 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: writing about this meeting Kissinger, a biography by Walter Isaacson. 716 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: Everyone found this rather disconcerting, especially since Kissinger was heading 717 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: off for Beijing. Well, someone asked, was it a positive 718 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: grunt or a negative grunt? Moka, He paused, it was 719 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: just a grunt, he explained, like mp, I mean, it 720 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: didn't go up or down. Stockwell, the agent in charge 721 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: marveled as a group of Somber officials supervising the nation's 722 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: only extant war sat around a table trying to decipher 723 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: a Kissinger grunt. Malka. He provided his imitation of the grunt, 724 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: once again emphasizing its flatness. Someone else at the other 725 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 1: end of the table tried it. There were a few 726 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: experiments contrasting positive grunts with the voice rising than a 727 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: negative one with the voice falling. Different people attempted it. Well, 728 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: asked the CIA officer who was cheering the meeting, do 729 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: we proceed with the advisors Malka. He scowled and puffed 730 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 1: on his pipe. We better not, he finally said, trying 731 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,720 Speaker 1: to decipher his boss's mind. Because since you're just decided 732 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: not to send Americans into the SIGNI there were a 733 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: lot of nods. The request for advisors was shelved. It 734 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: was an amazing way to run a war, Malka, he 735 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: said years later as he recalled the incident. Oh. Yeah, 736 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: by the way, this is they accidentally wrote a home 737 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: improvement script at the end of this This is actually 738 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: where the show came from. Tom and Taylor. It was 739 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: it was like no, no, I was like, okay, I 740 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: like that. That sounds a little more positive. It's just like, 741 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: what a moment for the United States, all these fucking 742 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: spooks with blood on their hands being like, well, it's 743 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: like or like you know, because you do, at least 744 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: at some point in your existence, for the most part, 745 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: you do believe that when someone is saying the Central 746 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency that it is really like working on intelligence 747 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: and gather and and is intelligent and is a body 748 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: that is actually you know, processing information that potentially you 749 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: don't have access to, and instead they're just sitting around 750 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: a fucking table going like do the grunt again, Jim, Yeah, 751 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: it real again. It reveals And this is I think 752 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: where a lot of folks on the left kind of 753 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: mix up viewing the CIA is like hyper competent, and 754 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: it's where a lot of people everywhere up viewing Kissinger 755 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: is hyper competent. Like no, they have a lot of 756 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: power and they use it badly. But like at the 757 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: end of the day, Kissinger doesn't have the balls to 758 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: like say yes or no on something, and so he 759 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,720 Speaker 1: grunts and then all of these fucking again bloody handed 760 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: monsters spend an entire meeting like repeating the grunt and 761 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: trying to figure out if it means yes or no. 762 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: And there's no like it's so unchecked. I mean there, 763 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: you there, and it's it's still is that it? But 764 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: it's just there's nobody there to be like, hey, this 765 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: is fucking nuts. Yeah. Instead they're like, do the grunt again, 766 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: try to grown again, yes or nod? Dan have the 767 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: best grunt? Dan, do it again, because I want to 768 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: play it slow for everyone. Bro. It's while I think 769 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: it's Sad's ambivalent. Having known Henry for a little while, 770 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: he's pissed. So the CIA's request for another twenty eight 771 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: million in funding, and the discussion of sending an advisors 772 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: was again leaked to see Moore Hirsh. Congress cut off 773 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: all aid. He obviously he puts out an article about it. 774 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: Congress cuts off aid to Angola. As a result of this, 775 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: Kissinger does not get his way, but the CIA money 776 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,240 Speaker 1: he'd already funneled into United helped the group stay alive. 777 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: The Golden Civil War did not officially end until two 778 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: thousand two. Although again this is one of those things. 779 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: This is a really nasty civil war. It lasts a 780 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: ridiculous amount of time. Kissinger gets a lot of the blame, 781 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 1: but we should also note that like Paul Manafort is 782 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: much more on this, Like he is the guy maniforts, 783 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: the guy who brings Savimbi to you see and gets 784 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: Reagan to send a funk load of weapons over to 785 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: like really escalate things. Thank god for Reagan. Yeah, thank 786 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,320 Speaker 1: god for Reagan. But it is amazing that this fucking 787 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: goes on into two thousand two. Crazy, Yeah, what a legacy, 788 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: What a legacy. So I have teased y'all that Kissinger 789 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: has a Rhodesia connection. Um, And yet again, the funniest 790 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,359 Speaker 1: thing about this is that it's one of the least 791 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: fucked up things he's ever involved in. But the story 792 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 1: is kind of funny, so I'm gonna tell it anyway. 793 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: So in Rhodesia, you've got this country, we're about eight 794 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,720 Speaker 1: percent of the population at the height of like white 795 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: population in Rhodesia, about eight percent of them are white, 796 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 1: but they hold effectively a hundred percent of the political power. 797 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: This obviously is not something a lot of the black 798 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: people living there like sure, for reasons I don't think 799 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: I need to explain. So some of them decide to 800 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: fight back, and there's a number of rebel groups and 801 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 1: soon in an ugly insurgent war between the Rhodesian government, 802 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 1: which by the way, is an international pariah right there, 803 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: like atually not supposed to exist basically, um so no 804 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: one can legally sell them arms. So everything has to 805 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: get like smuggled through South Africa, and the soldier of 806 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: Fortune magazine winds up sending a bunch of fighters over 807 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,439 Speaker 1: William F. Buckley Jr. Or William F. Buckley raises money 808 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: for them. YadA YadA, YadA. Very nasty war. We've talked 809 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: about it in other episodes. Yeah, it is it is 810 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 1: a go fund me war. So by the time Kissinger 811 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: is in office, the white minority government of Rhodesia has 812 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: spent years locked into the losing side of a grinding 813 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: insurgent campaign. The international community widely condemns Rhodesia as an 814 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: apartheid state, and there's a bunch of arms embargoes um. 815 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: And in fact, pretty much everyone hates Rhodesia except for 816 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: South Africa and the US right wing, who see the 817 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 1: Rhodies as anti communist crusaders. Kissinger was locked into an 818 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: awkward position here. He wanted to negotiate an end to 819 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: the fighting and an end to the white supremacist government 820 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 1: of Rhodesia, but he also doesn't want to piss off 821 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: his right wing base too much. You know, this is 822 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 1: like a really messy situation for him. Yeah. So policy 823 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: towards Rhodesia in the Nixon years. Um, there's a plan 824 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: Nixon approved to South Africa in nineteen sixty nine that 825 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: is like US policy in Rhodesia for nearly a decade, 826 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 1: and it is literally called I am sorry for saying this, 827 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: but Nixon calls US plans like the US stance towards 828 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: Rhodesia quote the tar Baby option on the podcast. Oh 829 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,040 Speaker 1: my god, at least there's no stream of white supremacy 830 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: through American This was the one time it's like I 831 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:43,439 Speaker 1: can't believe the guy fucking recorded himself for like, this 832 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,320 Speaker 1: is not just recorded himself. This isn't just like Nixon 833 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: saying a slur in a conversation with his buds. This 834 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: is an official US government policy. Yeah, we write this 835 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: out places someone it down. I was like, okay, I'll 836 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: hand it in if you're share Mr President's pretty demand. 837 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: This is this is not just towards Rhodesia. This is 838 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: towards all of like South Africa, to these like white 839 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: minority governments in Africa and the premises that quote, the 840 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: whites are here to stay and the only way that 841 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 1: constructive change can come is through them. So it's so 842 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: and it really hasn't changed that much. We just have 843 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: fancier titles. Yeah, we're we we don't put the slurs 844 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,320 Speaker 1: right in the title. Yeah, we don't reguard the president 845 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: and we don't put the slurs in the title. So 846 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: the policy is sold to American liberals and moderates by 847 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: basically saying the only way to liberate Black Africans is 848 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: to improve their economic outcomes through trade, and that means 849 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: dealing with the white government's right because yeah, it's really 850 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,720 Speaker 1: really tech. We've just changed it to tech essentially. Yeah, 851 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 1: we would maintain the document declared public opposition to racial repression, 852 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: but relax political isolation and economic restrictions on the white states. 853 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's fucking crazy, Like, you know, the problem 854 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: here is that people don't like the eight percent white 855 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: people that run the entire fucking place. It's one of 856 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: those we continue, and we'll always have debates over like 857 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: sanctions and like when they're good and bad ideas. But 858 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: the argument here is that, like, we can't sanction South 859 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,359 Speaker 1: Africa and Rhodesia because it will hurt black people. And 860 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,439 Speaker 1: the degree to which that's a lie is that, like, well, 861 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: you're saying, we have to start selling them fucking weapons 862 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 1: so that they can oppress black people in order to 863 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: improve economic outcomes for black people. And perhaps that's fucking insane. Um, 864 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: it's a little more nuanced than that, by not by 865 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: a lot, not much, not much. To his credit. When 866 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,320 Speaker 1: Nixon is out and Ford is in, Kissinger kills the 867 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: racial slur option, and he authors a new plan, one 868 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,360 Speaker 1: that is a lot better and that is actually focused 869 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: on spirited opposition to white minority rule in Rhodesia. Kissinger 870 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: gives a big speech in Lusaka that immediately enrages the 871 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 1: right wing of the Republican Party. Basically, he's like, our plan, 872 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: like under Ford, we want to bring an end to 873 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: the government in Rhodesia, like government the right way. It's 874 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: like unbelievable. Yes, Ronald Reagan of the Populist you can't 875 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: disenfranchise seven percent of Rhodesia. Have you seen the color 876 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: of their goddamn skin. That is essentially what Ronald Reagan 877 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 1: says um if he denounces Kissinger's plan is undercutting the 878 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: possibility of a quote, just an orderly settlement, and argues 879 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: that it will provoke a massacre of white people. Boy, 880 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you want to have a head popping moment. 881 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,320 Speaker 1: Try to find a good guy in a Reagan Kissinger debate. 882 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: It is. It is an amazing fight. It's just like, yeah, 883 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,279 Speaker 1: I hate everyone involved in this. We should pay more 884 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: attention to the white people. I think we need to 885 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: be careful. I feel like you're both conning me into something. 886 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,360 Speaker 1: I mean like you guys are a good cop, bad copy, 887 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: and you're working for the same outcome. Look, Henry, I'm 888 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 1: not sure why I think you're wrong in this, but 889 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: you must be. The other guy's got to be wrong too, though, 890 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,720 Speaker 1: So I don't really know what to do here. Don't 891 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 1: trust Reagan and hate him, but kissing your you're the 892 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: worst person on the planet. So I call a bit 893 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: of a pickle. Yeah, this is a doozy of an issue. 894 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,840 Speaker 1: I've got to go in the other room and do 895 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:22,279 Speaker 1: some grunning. Yeah, so he Yeah, what's happening here is 896 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 1: that Kissinger is trying to wrench US government policy in 897 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:30,359 Speaker 1: Africa away from supporting explicitly racist regimes in Africa, and 898 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: he's trying to get into a country club or something. 899 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: There's gotta be some angle of I mean, obviously, the 900 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: same reason he does anything right. He wants to be 901 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,839 Speaker 1: seen as being the guy who negotiates right into these 902 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: big issues, and he's trying to I think he recognizes 903 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: by this point that like, well, Republicans aren't going to 904 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: stay in power forever. But I him re Kissinger when 905 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: I have a shot that being in power still, and 906 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,879 Speaker 1: maybe if I if I get rid of this bad 907 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: government Rhodesia. People will be like, enri que, let's give 908 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: him a gig. You know. He accidently stumbles into yes, 909 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 1: the proper outcome because personally he wants to end it, 910 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: and so he sees the way to end it is 911 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 1: actually the way that's good. It's not we're lining up 912 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 1: Henry's personal interests with a prudent solution. And happened that 913 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,560 Speaker 1: at Eclipse is very rare. Yeah, it's he's like a 914 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,840 Speaker 1: guy who like stops a home invader from murdering a family. 915 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: But but but it's later found out that it's because 916 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: he was hitting on a fifteen year old girl, like 917 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 1: he was trying to flirt with their daughters and stuff like. 918 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,280 Speaker 1: It's like that sort of situation where it's like, well, good, 919 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: I guess like he stops a robbery because he was 920 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,239 Speaker 1: peeping through a window that he felt Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 921 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,720 Speaker 1: it is. It is hard to find the moral lesson 922 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 1: to take out of it. Um. So yeah, obviously the 923 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: Reagan right loses their minds over what Kissinger's doing here. 924 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: Pat Buchanan, a former Nixon speech writes in a column quote, 925 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: it is too early to determine if Secretary of State 926 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger's safari through Black Africa did greater damage to 927 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,360 Speaker 1: US policy interests or to President Ford's hopes in the 928 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,799 Speaker 1: remaining primaries. I mean again, I like it, just it 929 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: needs to stop. Where like this this never ending? What 930 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 1: does it due to your reelection chances? Ship? And it's 931 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 1: like that we were so conditioned to that being how 932 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,880 Speaker 1: we operate and do everything, as opposed to actually just 933 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 1: trying to do the thing that does long term good. 934 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 1: And what would you do the thing that is long 935 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 1: term good? Is exactly You're right, You're right. I mean, 936 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,399 Speaker 1: it's true, but it's I don't know, it's just it's 937 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: a foregone conclusion now that everything is viewed through the 938 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 1: prism of what is it due to the poll numbers? 939 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: Can I just say take off your masks? Yeah. So 940 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,439 Speaker 1: Kissinger did not achieve a tremendous amount in Rhodesia while 941 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,320 Speaker 1: he was Secretary of State. He got ian Ian Smith, 942 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 1: who's the leader of Rhodesia, to agree to a two 943 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 1: year turnover from minority rule to an actual democracy. But 944 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: the way he did this was by assuring Smith that 945 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,319 Speaker 1: Black moderates had agreed that during the turnover whites would 946 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: remain in control of the military and police. This was 947 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,880 Speaker 1: a lie. The black people in Rhody, like like the 948 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,839 Speaker 1: black moderates in Rhodesia, had never agreed to this. He's 949 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: just lying the Smith to get him to agree to 950 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 1: this um and the whole anytime there's like a two 951 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: year deal that you're like, that's just your way of 952 00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,839 Speaker 1: like letting it sort of settle so that you can 953 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,400 Speaker 1: pushing you the fun or exactly. Yeah, the story of 954 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,239 Speaker 1: the negotiations is classic Kissinger. He's telling everyone what they 955 00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,279 Speaker 1: want to hear and then kind of weaseling his way 956 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: into getting people to sign things that make him look good. 957 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: This right up from The New York Times sums it 958 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,759 Speaker 1: up well. Mr Smith has said he agrees to the 959 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,799 Speaker 1: five point plan he made in public because he had 960 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: received assurances from Mr Kissinger that the black leaders had 961 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,439 Speaker 1: accepted the whole package, including Mr Smith's edition on white 962 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,960 Speaker 1: menace on the white ministers. In his view, either the 963 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: blacks have renegged or Mr Kissinger misled him. The Blacks, 964 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 1: such as President Julius Neurere of Tanzania, insists that they 965 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: did not give their approval to the details of the 966 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,280 Speaker 1: five point plan only to the general thrust of majority 967 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 1: rule in two years, leaving it to Britain to work 968 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,279 Speaker 1: out details later with black and white Rhodesians. They say 969 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: they would have rejected the proposal for white ministers. Mr 970 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,880 Speaker 1: Kissinger and his aids have been evasive. On October, Mr 971 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,240 Speaker 1: Kissinger said on television that I think everybody is telling 972 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: the truth. What an incredible guy. Wow, the baddest. That 973 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:47,919 Speaker 1: is the best bullshit statement ever ending. I believe. I'm 974 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,399 Speaker 1: not sure everyone's lying. It's awesome. I think everyone who 975 00:53:53,520 --> 00:54:02,680 Speaker 1: is the bad guy in Rhodesia nobody ever you need 976 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,000 Speaker 1: a bad guy. In the end, the talks collapsed. The 977 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,680 Speaker 1: war continued on for two more years until the Rhodesian 978 00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,239 Speaker 1: Strategic Fuel Reserve was blown up by insurgents and the 979 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: government was forced to the table. Kissinger and his supporters 980 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: would later claim that the eventual piece was negotiated on 981 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:22,360 Speaker 1: the terms laid out during Kissinger's negotiations. That's kind of questionable. 982 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: It's probably it is fair to say that that by 983 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,160 Speaker 1: coming in very strongly, and he was very unequivocal about 984 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,239 Speaker 1: condemning the government of Rhodesia by doing this as the 985 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,799 Speaker 1: Secretary of State, Kissinger caused a shift that led to 986 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,640 Speaker 1: a significant increase in trust of the US by Black 987 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: African nations. Um, you know, yeah, obviously it's one of 988 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,800 Speaker 1: his better moves from an ethical standpoint, but an ego 989 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 1: move still, everything is an Obviously, it's a it's a 990 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,799 Speaker 1: sign of how much more fucked up things become that 991 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,080 Speaker 1: doing this broadly good thing causes the beginning of the 992 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,680 Speaker 1: end of his career in politics. Of course, it's like 993 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,800 Speaker 1: I can't help the black people. That's it. You're done. Yeah, yeah, 994 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,200 Speaker 1: that that's it for you, kissing. But to be fair, 995 00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,759 Speaker 1: at worked for me. That's why I did it. We know, 996 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:21,280 Speaker 1: but we know, buddy. But you know what won't fail 997 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,880 Speaker 1: to bring peace to Rhodesia. What's that the sponsors of 998 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,799 Speaker 1: this podcast, who orchestrated the destruction of the Rhodesian Strategic 999 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:35,759 Speaker 1: Field reserve that that is, we are sponsored entirely bye 1000 00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:47,360 Speaker 1: by the Rhodesian rebel forces. Um, here's an ad ah, 1001 00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 1: we're back. Good stuff. Yes, so yeah. On the whole, 1002 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,240 Speaker 1: Kissinger's last year or so as Secretary of State involved 1003 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: his least number of war crimes per month, which point 1004 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,960 Speaker 1: to personal growth, but probably points to the fact that 1005 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,840 Speaker 1: he and Nixon had just exhausted the US government's ability 1006 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,319 Speaker 1: to do shady ship. We needed a breather, right, we 1007 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,560 Speaker 1: had to take a breather. It took us a few 1008 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,919 Speaker 1: years to get geared up for Reagan. You know. Yeah, 1009 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,080 Speaker 1: he's like he's been go ahead, Dave, We've just kidded 1010 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,279 Speaker 1: so many It's like, no, Like why do we dig up? 1011 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,080 Speaker 1: We dig them up and kill them again, Like it's 1012 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 1: we're out of ammunition. He's like, he's no longer a 1013 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,040 Speaker 1: starting QB's being traded. He's riding the pine. Yeah, he's 1014 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,839 Speaker 1: got like he got a wrist injury, you know, he's yeah, 1015 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,000 Speaker 1: he's on I R for the year. Yeah, so the 1016 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,160 Speaker 1: last one of his escapades were going to cover them. 1017 00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:45,400 Speaker 1: His Kissinger's relationship with the Kurds not yeah, baby christ. 1018 00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,120 Speaker 1: The Kurdish people are the largest ethnic group on Earth 1019 00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,319 Speaker 1: without a nation of their own. They make up large 1020 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,400 Speaker 1: chunks of southern Turkey, southern Iran, Northern Iraq, in northeast Syria. Now, 1021 00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,560 Speaker 1: if you look at this kind of broad Kurdistan region 1022 00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,359 Speaker 1: on a map, you'll notice a couple of things. For one, 1023 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,320 Speaker 1: it's all landlocked, which means if if you were and 1024 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,120 Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk when like colonial powers 1025 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: left started to leave the Middle East after World War 1026 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,919 Speaker 1: Two that like should and promises were in fact made 1027 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: to the Kurds. Um. One of the issues that comes 1028 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,040 Speaker 1: up is that it's going to cause like severe economic 1029 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,479 Speaker 1: difficulties because they would be landlocked. Um. You'll also note 1030 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,760 Speaker 1: that their territories all tend to exist in chunks of 1031 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 1: states that have wound up fighting each other repeatedly over 1032 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,360 Speaker 1: the last half century or so, right, Turkey and Syria 1033 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: around and exactly, and the Kurds were used on purpose 1034 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: by basically everyone as buffer zones and proxy fighters in 1035 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,920 Speaker 1: these conflicts. Now, starting in the Niction administration, the Shot 1036 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,960 Speaker 1: of Iran had a problem. He was engaged in an 1037 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,440 Speaker 1: escalating conflict with a new sexy, young dude on the block, 1038 00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,960 Speaker 1: Saddam Hussein of a rat. Now, can I just say 1039 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,480 Speaker 1: right away, I like both these guys. They seem like 1040 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:57,560 Speaker 1: they're both gonna go good places. So the shot acides 1041 00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: he wants to arm. He wants the US to arm 1042 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,600 Speaker 1: Kurdish fighters in order to give Saddam some trouble in 1043 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,320 Speaker 1: ease up pressure. Um, the ostensible leader of the Kurdish 1044 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,400 Speaker 1: people struggle in Iraq at this time as a guy 1045 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,160 Speaker 1: named Mustapha Barzani. Now, Mustafa had been leading his people 1046 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,919 Speaker 1: in battle against the Iraqi state prior to Saddam taking 1047 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,040 Speaker 1: power for like a decade at this point, and he 1048 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,480 Speaker 1: had repeatedly begged the United States for aid. The US 1049 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,560 Speaker 1: traditionally did not like Barzani because he had spent a 1050 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,480 Speaker 1: decade exiled in the Soviet Union and had some socialist 1051 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,640 Speaker 1: e tendencies. But the Israelis and the Shah had experienced 1052 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,960 Speaker 1: great luck in using the Kurds to keep Saddam, who 1053 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,560 Speaker 1: taken power pretty recently, off of their back. Kurdish rebels 1054 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,560 Speaker 1: tied up eighty percent of the Iraqi military during the 1055 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,200 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven war against Israel and are probably a 1056 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,560 Speaker 1: big part of the reason why Iraq did not join 1057 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,200 Speaker 1: in that war. In April of nineteen seventy two, Saddam 1058 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,160 Speaker 1: signed a treaty of friendship with the Soviet Union. This 1059 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,640 Speaker 1: finally tipped things with the friendship is just a great term. 1060 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it is a nice term. When I was 1061 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:03,560 Speaker 1: seven at a tree, Yeah, can you sign my broke contract? 1062 00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,120 Speaker 1: It comes with a K forty seven. We are signing 1063 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:12,000 Speaker 1: the BFF treaty. So this finally tips things for the 1064 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 1: NIXT administration, and Kissinger gives the go ahead for CIA 1065 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,360 Speaker 1: Director Richard Helms to express American sympathy with the Kurds 1066 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,480 Speaker 1: and to clare our quote readiness to consider their requests 1067 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,400 Speaker 1: for exist for assistance. Next from a write up in 1068 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:28,080 Speaker 1: Foreign Policy, in early nineteen seventy four, Saddam violated the 1069 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,880 Speaker 1: terms of the March Accord and unilaterally imposed a watered 1070 00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,280 Speaker 1: down version of autonomy for the Kurds. Barzani responded by 1071 00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,280 Speaker 1: traveling to Iran, where he met with the SHAW and 1072 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,160 Speaker 1: the CIA station chief to request US backing for a 1073 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,680 Speaker 1: plan to set up an Arab Kurdish government that would 1074 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,200 Speaker 1: claim to be the sole legitimate government of Iraq. As 1075 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 1: Kissinger wrote in his nineteen ninety nine memoir Years of Renewal, 1076 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,920 Speaker 1: Barzani's request triggered a flood of communications among US officials 1077 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,080 Speaker 1: focused on two questions, whether the United States would support 1078 00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,200 Speaker 1: a unilateral declaration of autonomy and what level of support 1079 00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,600 Speaker 1: the United States was willing to give the Kurds. The 1080 00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,760 Speaker 1: c A in particular warned against increasing US assistants, but 1081 01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Kissinger was dismissive of CIA director William Colby's caution, writing 1082 01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:13,640 Speaker 1: quote Colby's resistance was as unrealistic as Barzani's enthusiasm. Nixon 1083 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,840 Speaker 1: ultimately decided to increase to increase US assistants to the Kurds, 1084 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,720 Speaker 1: including the provision of nine hundred thousand pounds of Soviet 1085 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: made weapons that the CIA had stockpiled and a one 1086 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,640 Speaker 1: million dollar lump sum of refugee assistants. In April of 1087 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:32,560 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, Kissinger, why why the Soviet weapons? Is 1088 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,520 Speaker 1: that confuse things you don't want people see in them? 1089 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 1: With US weapons, that's gonna make it seem like we're 1090 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:49,280 Speaker 1: involved in what an amazing move? I mean, it's dope murder. Yeah. 1091 01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,400 Speaker 1: So in April of nineteen seventy four, kiss Kissinger sent 1092 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Nixon's orders to the US ambassador in Tehran. This cable 1093 01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: was important because it laid out a succinct proclamation of 1094 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,080 Speaker 1: US interests of VISA VI the Kurds. The objectives, he 1095 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,800 Speaker 1: wrote were to a give the Kurd's capacity to maintain 1096 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,360 Speaker 1: a reasonable base for negotiating recognition of rights by Baghdad government. 1097 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 1: B to keep present Iraqi government tied down, but see 1098 01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,120 Speaker 1: not to divide Iraq permanently because an independent Kurdish area 1099 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,200 Speaker 1: would not be economically viable. And US and Iran have 1100 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,600 Speaker 1: no interest in closing the door on good relations with 1101 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:26,480 Speaker 1: Iraq under moderate leadership. But there are are I mean, 1102 01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm not crazy, but there are landlocked countries that stands 1103 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,920 Speaker 1: a huge amount of oil. Yeah, it's such a crazy 1104 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 1: thing that they're saying, like, it's just it's fucking insane 1105 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,400 Speaker 1: what they are doing. What Kissinger is establishing and writing 1106 01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: here is US policy towards Kurdish people for more than 1107 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,480 Speaker 1: half a century. And the idea comes down to, we 1108 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 1: will provide them with aid and weapons when they fight 1109 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,520 Speaker 1: our enemies, but only to such an extent that they 1110 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:57,440 Speaker 1: achieve minor tactical successes, never enough to allow them permanent autonomy, 1111 01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 1: because that's going to upset the balance of power. Right, 1112 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,160 Speaker 1: This has been ever since. This is what we do 1113 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,040 Speaker 1: with the curs right, And Kissinger is the guy who 1114 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,320 Speaker 1: lays it out first. Now, Mustapha Barzani made the terrible 1115 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: mistake of believing that the US actually supported his people's independence. 1116 01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,960 Speaker 1: For three years, the Kurds battled Saddam, sustaining thousands of 1117 01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: casualties but then, in nineteen seventy five, the Shaw and 1118 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,080 Speaker 1: Saddam made peace, and the SHAW asked the CIA to 1119 01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,040 Speaker 1: cut off all aid to the Kurds. As part of 1120 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,280 Speaker 1: a deal with Iraq. The weapons Kurdish fighters had relied 1121 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,640 Speaker 1: upon suddenly dried up. Barzani's fighters were massacred. Thousands fled 1122 01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,640 Speaker 1: to Iran, but were turned away by the Shaw. Desperate, 1123 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 1: Mustafa cabled Kissinger, whom he had gratefully sent three rugs 1124 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,680 Speaker 1: and a golden pearl necklace's wedding gifts just months earlier, 1125 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,480 Speaker 1: Your excellency, the United States has a moral and political 1126 01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,760 Speaker 1: responsibility to our people. Kissinger never replied. Later that year, 1127 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,800 Speaker 1: the House Intelligence Committee asked him to justify this betrayal. 1128 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,720 Speaker 1: He responded, covert actions should not be confused with missionary where, 1129 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,120 Speaker 1: oh my god, so cool, Like you don't understand that 1130 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:07,200 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm also just doing missionary stuff. Yeah. The key 1131 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,440 Speaker 1: is that I don't give a ship as he stands 1132 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,000 Speaker 1: naked on his rug with just his pearl necklace song 1133 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,480 Speaker 1: speaking of mission narity. So in the nineteen seventy six 1134 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,000 Speaker 1: presidential elections, Ronald Reagan attempted to primary Gerald Ford from 1135 01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,600 Speaker 1: the right. The Reagan campaign targeted Kissinger heavily, not for 1136 01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,920 Speaker 1: his numerous war crimes, but because of the fact that 1137 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,360 Speaker 1: he had made a de taunt with the Soviet Union. Right, 1138 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,880 Speaker 1: that's why there because it's amazing to be like, you 1139 01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,280 Speaker 1: know what, the rights actually got a point. He committed 1140 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,520 Speaker 1: war crimes in Vietnam. I mean, you're talking about a 1141 01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,880 Speaker 1: guy who's killed millions of innocent people. No, that's actually 1142 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,240 Speaker 1: not that said. We're at the peace stuff. We're pissing 1143 01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,320 Speaker 1: there a little angry at some of this peace stuff 1144 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,520 Speaker 1: he's been lacking in. They are specifically they're livid that 1145 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,560 Speaker 1: like part of the Dean means Kissinger was like, we're 1146 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:58,520 Speaker 1: not gonna funk with Soviet spheres of influence in Eastern Europe, 1147 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,000 Speaker 1: and Reagan and his college to like, well, this means 1148 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,640 Speaker 1: they're just giving up Eastern Europe to communism. You know 1149 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:11,640 Speaker 1: right Away's communism exactly, it's fascist communists, I mean, and 1150 01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,160 Speaker 1: Kissinger's political instincts and charm we're sufficient to find off 1151 01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,200 Speaker 1: an attempt because there's within the Ford administration, there's an 1152 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: attempt to get forward to promise to fire him in 1153 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,480 Speaker 1: a second term, largely because they think it will help 1154 01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,480 Speaker 1: him win the primary against Reagan and Nixon beats everyone here. 1155 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,120 Speaker 1: He manages to get forward to be like, no, I 1156 01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:32,560 Speaker 1: would never fire Henry Kissinger, but this is no, no, no no, not. 1157 01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,520 Speaker 1: Kissinger succeeds in doing that with four okay, So I thought, like, 1158 01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:38,680 Speaker 1: it's like, if you're listening to it at this point, 1159 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:40,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of mixing in the area. You know, 1160 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,240 Speaker 1: you mix it up. He's just at a cupboard in 1161 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,040 Speaker 1: the White House. Still, Gerald can't be some Gin also 1162 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:52,320 Speaker 1: keep Hank around. So the fact that Henry wins the 1163 01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,840 Speaker 1: fight within the Ford administration means that he becomes like 1164 01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,320 Speaker 1: a major marketing term for the Reagan campaign, right, Like 1165 01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,720 Speaker 1: they not stop. In fact, they institute a plank in 1166 01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,960 Speaker 1: the Republican Party that year that's basically the anti Kissinger 1167 01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,360 Speaker 1: plank that says, like, you will never accept that like 1168 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,520 Speaker 1: communist states should exist anywhere. Essentially, that's kind of what 1169 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,600 Speaker 1: they do, stabbing him in the heart. Yeah it is. 1170 01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,840 Speaker 1: It's amazing, um, And it's amazing. It's a it's a 1171 01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:20,920 Speaker 1: mark of like how much he fucked things up that 1172 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,320 Speaker 1: you can't even feel good about his downfall because he's 1173 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:28,360 Speaker 1: replaced by people who just suck even more. Yes, um, So, 1174 01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,200 Speaker 1: Ronnie felt the spheres of influence that Kissinger had established 1175 01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,120 Speaker 1: with the Soviet Union were giving up the Eastern like 1176 01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,680 Speaker 1: block to communism. He also attacked Kissinger for negotiating with 1177 01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,360 Speaker 1: Panama's new government because Henry was willing to give the 1178 01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:50,000 Speaker 1: Panama Canal back to the Panamanian people, to the Panama 1179 01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,800 Speaker 1: So and Reagan wrote that thing, but they were so No, 1180 01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,640 Speaker 1: there's no clay, have no claim to that canal. Yeah, 1181 01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,959 Speaker 1: Reagan said in the speech, we built it, we paid 1182 01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,280 Speaker 1: for it, and we're going to keep it. Um. Refer 1183 01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,520 Speaker 1: to our two part on the US and Panama. More 1184 01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,600 Speaker 1: on that one. So Reagan's primary attempt failed, but by 1185 01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,400 Speaker 1: struggling against the rising far right, Kissinger had hammered the 1186 01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,880 Speaker 1: final nail into his political career's coffin. In the Ford 1187 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,440 Speaker 1: administration's last days, a dark alliance materialized, and, smelling blood 1188 01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,040 Speaker 1: in the water, they acted to cut Kissinger off from 1189 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,680 Speaker 1: any future career in Republican politics. The three main members 1190 01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:32,560 Speaker 1: of this alliance were Paul Wolfowitz from the CIA, Vice 1191 01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:41,240 Speaker 1: President Dick Cheney, and Secretary of Defense Donald ru God baby, yeah, 1192 01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:47,600 Speaker 1: it's like for Kissingers, it's like killing Satan and then 1193 01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:52,800 Speaker 1: three winged demons fly out of him. Yeah, it's so funny. 1194 01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:58,440 Speaker 1: It is so funny. Um, really funny. Um and in 1195 01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:03,720 Speaker 1: fact so uh kissing your Kissinger like Rumsfeld, he sees 1196 01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,480 Speaker 1: is almost like a protege. Like Hei and Rumsfeld are 1197 01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:10,280 Speaker 1: very close, and when Rumsfeld turns against him, Kissinger describes 1198 01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,840 Speaker 1: him as quote the rottenest person I've known in government, 1199 01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:20,600 Speaker 1: which is henry from you, utterly absolutely meaningless from you. 1200 01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:27,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you're not allowed. Yeah, it's so funny. It's 1201 01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,240 Speaker 1: so funny. So it's not funny for all the people 1202 01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:32,880 Speaker 1: who are going to die, but it's kind of it's 1203 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,800 Speaker 1: funny in like an existential sense, like if you're if 1204 01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,160 Speaker 1: you're an alien looking at all, this like a TV show, 1205 01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty funny. Yeah, you'd be like why, why don't 1206 01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,840 Speaker 1: think you're a good guy. You're like, well, it's really 1207 01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,560 Speaker 1: kind to explained, but they just don't. If you can't 1208 01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:51,280 Speaker 1: laugh at all the people dying, Are you an American? Yeah? No, 1209 01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,680 Speaker 1: the answer was no. By the way, the first time 1210 01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,600 Speaker 1: that Nixon heard that Kissinger was working with the guy 1211 01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,480 Speaker 1: named Rumsfeld, he was like, well, I pour him in 1212 01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:04,880 Speaker 1: a glass for me gets mice on it. So Rumsfeld 1213 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,360 Speaker 1: and Cheney worked within the White House. But I can't 1214 01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,160 Speaker 1: believe I got to hear their name. I know, I know, baby, 1215 01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,880 Speaker 1: I know. While wolf A Witz is part of the 1216 01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:17,439 Speaker 1: CIA's Team B. Now, Team B is an intelligence review 1217 01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:19,760 Speaker 1: board set up by Gerald Ford as a sop to 1218 01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,439 Speaker 1: the far right the Reagan Conservatives, who he's again trying 1219 01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,120 Speaker 1: to win over and get behind him so we can 1220 01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,599 Speaker 1: win election against Carter. The Reagan Conservatives were certain the 1221 01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,479 Speaker 1: agency had been the CIA, I mean, had been under 1222 01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,479 Speaker 1: reporting Soviet military power because the Soviet military and like 1223 01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:37,400 Speaker 1: the early chunk of the Ford administration is like they're 1224 01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,000 Speaker 1: actually not doing great, Like they're like, we we really 1225 01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,320 Speaker 1: don't need to keep buying a shipload of weapons. Like 1226 01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,360 Speaker 1: they're not. They they're not they don't have the kind 1227 01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,960 Speaker 1: of military assets that we've been saying for years. Um, 1228 01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:51,760 Speaker 1: so we now are getting a shady CIA inside of 1229 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,840 Speaker 1: shady c I A. Yes, this is like this it's 1230 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,560 Speaker 1: like a Russian nesting doll of the CIA inside the cia' 1231 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:06,120 Speaker 1: I A. So the Reagan Conservatives were certain that the 1232 01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,679 Speaker 1: CIA had been under reporting Soviet military power, and Team 1233 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,840 Speaker 1: B like was basically Ford gave them Team Beast so 1234 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,439 Speaker 1: that they could get new appraisals that showed that the 1235 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,680 Speaker 1: Soviet Union was actually increasing their military assets. So basically 1236 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,519 Speaker 1: what we like what like I mean essentially like what 1237 01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,519 Speaker 1: would eventually happen with a rack where you're like, look, 1238 01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm not liking the uh, I'm like the non distilled information, 1239 01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,400 Speaker 1: give me a bunch of bullshit. That's exactly what's happening. 1240 01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's fascinating here is that, 1241 01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,160 Speaker 1: in essence, this is a return of missile gap logic, right, 1242 01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:42,679 Speaker 1: which Kissinger helped get off the ground, but now because 1243 01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,280 Speaker 1: he supports the state tent policy, and that's like his 1244 01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,120 Speaker 1: big claim to like fame within you know, his his 1245 01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,360 Speaker 1: career that he reached the talk with the Soviet Union. 1246 01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,800 Speaker 1: He's on the opposite side of like a missile gap 1247 01:09:53,880 --> 01:10:02,240 Speaker 1: bullshit myth right man, slepards my face. Yeah, I never 1248 01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,960 Speaker 1: thought it could happen to me. Yeah, And then they 1249 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:09,519 Speaker 1: came for the Kissingers and there was Kissingers. It's the 1250 01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,439 Speaker 1: same thing as like Dick Cheney speaking out against the 1251 01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:16,120 Speaker 1: Trump administration, his daughter gets slandered and stuff, and it's 1252 01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,240 Speaker 1: what and it's what It's gonna be in twenty years 1253 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,000 Speaker 1: when you know Trump is welcomed at the President's funeral 1254 01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,040 Speaker 1: and we're gone. You know, Trump really wasn't that bad. 1255 01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,000 Speaker 1: I like the way he said we shouldn't knuke everyone 1256 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,280 Speaker 1: on Earth as opposed to the next guy who knuked 1257 01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:33,200 Speaker 1: everyone on Earth. Yeah, I mean yeah, Jill Biden handed 1258 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:37,360 Speaker 1: him a piece of peppermint candy. He's not that bad. So, 1259 01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:42,000 Speaker 1: former CIA analyst Melvin Goodwin later said of Team b quote, 1260 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,200 Speaker 1: they wanted to toughen up the agency's estimates. Cheney wanted 1261 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,640 Speaker 1: to drive the CIA so far to the right that 1262 01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,240 Speaker 1: it would never say no to the generals. How estimates 1263 01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:55,960 Speaker 1: and this is the st estimate, like their estimates. Pause 1264 01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,519 Speaker 1: this and listen to our episodes on the Dulless Brothers. 1265 01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,080 Speaker 1: And then we wize that, and he's like, I want 1266 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:05,080 Speaker 1: them further right than that. That's not nearly right wing enough. 1267 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:10,760 Speaker 1: That is the craziest fucking thing yet, bug a gang bang, 1268 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:15,559 Speaker 1: being like, I want more orifices, not enough holes here. 1269 01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,560 Speaker 1: I can't expect my deck and enough stuff. So in 1270 01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,160 Speaker 1: December of nineteen seventy six, as the Ford administration prepared 1271 01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,000 Speaker 1: pre prepared to hand over power to Jimmy Carter, the 1272 01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,559 Speaker 1: CIA finished and released a fifty five page report. Greg 1273 01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Grandon describes this as quote the rights answer to the 1274 01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:34,759 Speaker 1: Pentagon Papers, a nearly perfect negation of the document Daniel 1275 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,280 Speaker 1: Ellsberg had leaked three years earlier. The scholars and policymakers 1276 01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,680 Speaker 1: who composed the Pentagon Papers represented the kind of men 1277 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:45,479 Speaker 1: Kissinger disdained, experts enthralled to facts. In contrast, the members 1278 01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,160 Speaker 1: of Team B were admitted idealogues. It's members, as j. 1279 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,640 Speaker 1: Peters Scope Scope look notes, saw the Soviet threat not 1280 01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,679 Speaker 1: as an empirical problem, but as a matter of faith. 1281 01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:01,720 Speaker 1: What kind I mean, it just it's a church. It's 1282 01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,880 Speaker 1: it's a church. It's also what's happening here because this 1283 01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:09,160 Speaker 1: they are against Kissinger. But as Grandon notes, they're using 1284 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:14,880 Speaker 1: the kind of logic he right, he's not. He's there 1285 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,920 Speaker 1: with him on all of the murder crazy American ship. 1286 01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,800 Speaker 1: But they're like, he's just not racist. I mean, they're 1287 01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:22,760 Speaker 1: basically like, we got to get rid of Kissinger so 1288 01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:26,639 Speaker 1: we can worship his tactics properly. That's exactly what's going 1289 01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,160 Speaker 1: on here and in Kissinger's shadow, Grant Grandon continues, quote 1290 01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,200 Speaker 1: previewing what would become known as Dick Cheney's one percent doctrine. 1291 01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,920 Speaker 1: Team BE interpreted threats with the smallest possibility probability of 1292 01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,320 Speaker 1: occurring as likely to occur. Absence of proof of Russian 1293 01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:45,240 Speaker 1: superiority was taken as as proof of superiority. Team be's 1294 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,679 Speaker 1: failure to find a Soviet non acoustic anti submarine system 1295 01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:53,080 Speaker 1: was evidence that there could well be one, which makes 1296 01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:55,600 Speaker 1: sense that of course, I mean it would be U. 1297 01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:00,519 Speaker 1: There is no evidence that I have got it, and 1298 01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:02,680 Speaker 1: and you know one an Emmy and an Oscar and 1299 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:09,960 Speaker 1: a Grammy, so that that's pretty solid evidence that I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1300 01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,960 Speaker 1: absolutely so. In December of nineteen seventy seven, The New 1301 01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,120 Speaker 1: York Times published a front page story on the intelligence 1302 01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,719 Speaker 1: findings of Team B, which provided legitimacy to the bogus 1303 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,600 Speaker 1: and then shared the next decade of defense spending was 1304 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:27,400 Speaker 1: geared towards stopping a rising Soviet Titan that did not exist. 1305 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:33,639 Speaker 1: You know, thanks nailed on that one. Star Wars. Yeah, 1306 01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,240 Speaker 1: Star Wars proceeds directly, yeah yeah, and it proceeds directly 1307 01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,439 Speaker 1: like Team B is laying the groundwork for Star Wars. Right, So, 1308 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,679 Speaker 1: while these tactics ran directly countered a Kissinger's current positions. 1309 01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,679 Speaker 1: They rested directly on what Grandon calls his philosophy of history. 1310 01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,880 Speaker 1: Henry had been an advocate on the value of intuition 1311 01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,799 Speaker 1: and assessing threats and guiding responses history, and Anna hescent 1312 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,000 Speaker 1: Khn writes that they used Kissinger's own philosophy to quote 1313 01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,880 Speaker 1: the little besmirch and tarnish Henry Kissinger had to be 1314 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,360 Speaker 1: a tough spot for Kissinger, where he was like, it's 1315 01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,680 Speaker 1: a shame that I've been vilified, but goddamn do I 1316 01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:18,439 Speaker 1: love the way they did it? So everything, we everything. 1317 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,720 Speaker 1: That's that's why when people, you know, you look at 1318 01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:25,519 Speaker 1: the current situation in in Russia and everyone's like, you 1319 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:27,280 Speaker 1: gotta get rid of him, And I'm always like, just 1320 01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:30,719 Speaker 1: but just remember, whenever the US gets what it wants, 1321 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:35,240 Speaker 1: it's always worse. Yeah, every time that it can be worse, 1322 01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:38,120 Speaker 1: Like he can be gone. He's a fucking monster, but 1323 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:42,280 Speaker 1: don't be surprised what comes after. It's really fucking bad. 1324 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,200 Speaker 1: And the idea of not questioning shit, like we're the 1325 01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,400 Speaker 1: country who cried war. At some point you have to 1326 01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:53,880 Speaker 1: be like, look, sorry, everybody, you're really gonna need to 1327 01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:57,040 Speaker 1: step up with a lot of evidence because you you 1328 01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,680 Speaker 1: constantly just fucking invention. I mean, if you if you 1329 01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:05,679 Speaker 1: are forming organizations inside of bullshit, organizations meant to bring 1330 01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,240 Speaker 1: like that. If there's no submarines, it means there are submarines. 1331 01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just kind of like and the fact 1332 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,040 Speaker 1: that it's still effective, it's constantly effective. It's never it's 1333 01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:21,120 Speaker 1: never stopped. This is just a continuation, and it's even 1334 01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: like this is a domestic version of what we what 1335 01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:29,880 Speaker 1: happens everyhere else. We just create more and more worse things. Yeah, internally, 1336 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,760 Speaker 1: externally it's what we do. Don't worry, We'll make it worse. Yeah, 1337 01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,759 Speaker 1: that's that is That is the promise that the United 1338 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,360 Speaker 1: States makes itself in the world. Don't worry, don't worry. 1339 01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,479 Speaker 1: We can funk this up. More lifeguard waits to throw 1340 01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,680 Speaker 1: on you. Yeah, I mean we fucking created Putin. If 1341 01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:47,360 Speaker 1: you go back and look at it, like yeah, and 1342 01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,720 Speaker 1: all that ship it looks looking at the at the 1343 01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,439 Speaker 1: bombing of Kevan, going, you know what'll fix this? If 1344 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Bangladesh doesn't get COVID nineteen, which is something is going 1345 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,519 Speaker 1: to be like we will at some point solve something. 1346 01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:07,840 Speaker 1: Just totally on accident. Like, yeah, so when he left 1347 01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:11,439 Speaker 1: office in nineteen seventy seven, Henry Kissinger would never return 1348 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:16,040 Speaker 1: to direct political power. Um, he desperately wants to. He 1349 01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,360 Speaker 1: really wanted to. Then he has always wanted to. Yeah, 1350 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:24,040 Speaker 1: that's nice now now I understand two. Yeah, he really 1351 01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,920 Speaker 1: wanted it to happen, but he never quite made it 1352 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,920 Speaker 1: pulled it off. He eventually started a consulting firm, which 1353 01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,479 Speaker 1: he would rapidly grow into an eight to ten million 1354 01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,800 Speaker 1: dollar a year business for himself. Um, he makes a 1355 01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,639 Speaker 1: ton of money doing this. Ship. Of course, he goes 1356 01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:44,160 Speaker 1: into consulting like absolutely, consultings job is to get the 1357 01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:47,479 Speaker 1: worst advice yea, and to make people feel good, and 1358 01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:53,240 Speaker 1: he's great at that now. Walter Isaacson, author of the 1359 01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:57,439 Speaker 1: biography Kissinger, claims that Henry was actually much more ethical 1360 01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,880 Speaker 1: in this period of his life than most former government 1361 01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:04,160 Speaker 1: officials who start consulting businesses. Um, he waited an unusually 1362 01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:06,719 Speaker 1: long time to start his business. He avoided for years 1363 01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,080 Speaker 1: directly connecting his clients to people he'd worked with in 1364 01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:13,160 Speaker 1: the State Department. It may be accurate that he is 1365 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,400 Speaker 1: more ethical in his conduct here than most people. But again, 1366 01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:20,120 Speaker 1: that's a low ass bar um. Most of his business, 1367 01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,040 Speaker 1: the business he does in this period, can be boiled 1368 01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:23,880 Speaker 1: down to like, he's helping oil and gas and other 1369 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:28,439 Speaker 1: extractive industries. So he's doing stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, so 1370 01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:33,080 Speaker 1: he's just destroying the world. Well yeah, absolutely, he's a 1371 01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:36,040 Speaker 1: middleman for the people destroying the world. Let's let's let's 1372 01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:39,080 Speaker 1: be clear about you know, he's he's he's making he's 1373 01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:42,479 Speaker 1: making connections between people whoever linked. To be fair, he's 1374 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:44,680 Speaker 1: pining to be in charge of it again. He is 1375 01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,479 Speaker 1: um probably his most morally questionable moment, And like I 1376 01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,559 Speaker 1: guess a conventional sense is that, uh so, like right 1377 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,160 Speaker 1: after the Tenement Square crackdown, he shows up on Peter 1378 01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:01,040 Speaker 1: Jennings Show um to argue that, like whatever went on, 1379 01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:04,120 Speaker 1: the U S should not impose any economic consequences on China. 1380 01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,120 Speaker 1: And this is again not due to a principled stand 1381 01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,840 Speaker 1: against sanctions. It's because Kissinger was working on a massive 1382 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,920 Speaker 1: business deal that involved the Chinese government in several large corporations. 1383 01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:17,839 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. He's he's working as a journalist 1384 01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:20,640 Speaker 1: at that point. He is a regular columnist for The 1385 01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,960 Speaker 1: l A Times, in the Washington Post and he advocates 1386 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,760 Speaker 1: in both magazines not putting any kind of economic like 1387 01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:30,720 Speaker 1: like doing any economic harm to China over this, which 1388 01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:34,760 Speaker 1: is like ethical issue as a journalist because again he 1389 01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,920 Speaker 1: does not disclose that he has any of these business relationships, 1390 01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:41,600 Speaker 1: and it causes a minor uproar um. It's one of 1391 01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,080 Speaker 1: those things where it's like, yeah, that's unethical behavior, but 1392 01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,280 Speaker 1: also in Kissinger terms, like not even on the fucking 1393 01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:52,519 Speaker 1: radar right is an abhorrent act. But congratulations on turning 1394 01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:56,240 Speaker 1: over Lea Henry. Yeah, yeah, wow, Henry, you've really improved. 1395 01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,800 Speaker 1: You really are less ship. You waited until after the 1396 01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:03,040 Speaker 1: thing to do something bad. So in his post power years, 1397 01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:05,719 Speaker 1: he became even more of an international celebrity. He's actually 1398 01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:08,639 Speaker 1: surprised when he's when he starts doing this job, he's raking, 1399 01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:11,320 Speaker 1: racking up huge amounts of money as like a public speaker, 1400 01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,240 Speaker 1: and he and his his like accountant expect the value 1401 01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:15,840 Speaker 1: of him as a speaking like well, it's obviously it's 1402 01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:19,759 Speaker 1: going to decline over a time, hor it just gets bigger. 1403 01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:23,040 Speaker 1: He just becomes more and more valuable as a public speaker. 1404 01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,760 Speaker 1: Now for some insight into his life, uh, in what 1405 01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,400 Speaker 1: we might call retirement. I found a New York Magazine 1406 01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:34,080 Speaker 1: article from two thousand six quote he bonds with Oprah 1407 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,960 Speaker 1: Winfrey over their shared love of dogs. She recommended an 1408 01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,439 Speaker 1: artist to paint a portrait of Kissinger's lab, and with 1409 01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,439 Speaker 1: Alex Rodriguez over their shared love of the Yankees. He 1410 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,040 Speaker 1: and a rod had lunch at the Four Seasons. Last year, 1411 01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:47,960 Speaker 1: he and his wife of thirty two years, Nancy McGinnis, 1412 01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,760 Speaker 1: spent every Christmas with close friends Oscar and Annette de 1413 01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,719 Speaker 1: la Rena. In The Dominican Republic. Asked about the nature 1414 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,320 Speaker 1: of that friendship, given the unlikely connection between a former 1415 01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:59,479 Speaker 1: statesman and a fashion mogul, Kissinger says, they are dear 1416 01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,400 Speaker 1: friends of line. They have no utility. I'm going to 1417 01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:05,640 Speaker 1: try to kill them. Yeah, I will kill them in 1418 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,680 Speaker 1: some plans to kill them soon. Can we just can 1419 01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:13,240 Speaker 1: we finally agree that Oprah Winfrey is a fucking monster? Yeah? 1420 01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:17,080 Speaker 1: I mean right. Oprah buddies with Henry K. Winfrey. Yes, 1421 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:21,679 Speaker 1: I meant to Phil. Yes, your oz like she creates. 1422 01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:24,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going to stick everybody dr shit talk, but 1423 01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:28,599 Speaker 1: the other ones you got me don't forge Grett, don't 1424 01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:33,599 Speaker 1: forget John of God. Yeah, right, under your Sue Harto tattoo, 1425 01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:39,080 Speaker 1: Garrett doctor Oz high fiving. Henry Kissinger not to be 1426 01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,920 Speaker 1: this before he got his show. So I liked him early. 1427 01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:47,000 Speaker 1: This was just this was just like aspirational. You know, yeah, 1428 01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know. It's a great pal. So Kissinger became 1429 01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,600 Speaker 1: a New York socialite and was reputed to enjoy the 1430 01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,760 Speaker 1: city social scene because quote, Manhattan social life is more 1431 01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,120 Speaker 1: generous than Washington's political life. Wanted to pick where he 1432 01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:03,360 Speaker 1: wants to go out. I mean, he should have to 1433 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,479 Speaker 1: get food raised to his sell in a bucket. It's 1434 01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:08,160 Speaker 1: the same thing, is that? What the cook was it? 1435 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:09,800 Speaker 1: David Cooke, the one that just died, But it was 1436 01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:13,080 Speaker 1: the same thing. Everyone just accepted him in those circles 1437 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:15,719 Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, he's a fucking And then Charles 1438 01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,040 Speaker 1: Coke is the one who's like, you know, was like 1439 01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:22,479 Speaker 1: on a rehabilitation tour for like six months and you 1440 01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,160 Speaker 1: and you know, major news outlets are reporting like, look, 1441 01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,240 Speaker 1: he recognizes they fucked up a lot. It's like he 1442 01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:32,080 Speaker 1: feels bad. He feels bad to give a fuck de 1443 01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:37,040 Speaker 1: genitalize him. So was regularly and I think probably still 1444 01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,120 Speaker 1: is regularly seen on the arm of Barbara Walters, who 1445 01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,800 Speaker 1: calls him a loyal friend. She was hanging out with 1446 01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:45,840 Speaker 1: Henry and his wife one night at a dinner party 1447 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,679 Speaker 1: when kissing You're endured one of his few public shamings. 1448 01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:52,479 Speaker 1: It came courtesy as the real the only real hero 1449 01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:57,120 Speaker 1: of these episodes, ABC News anchor Peter Jennings, who sees 1450 01:21:57,240 --> 01:22:00,800 Speaker 1: Kissinger at a restaurant and is fucking in raged and 1451 01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,559 Speaker 1: screams out, how does it feel to be a war criminal? Henry? 1452 01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:10,760 Speaker 1: Peter Jennings baby, And of course Peter Jennings is gone, 1453 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:16,840 Speaker 1: so he died. Yeah, kissing You're probably like invaded his lungs. Yeah, 1454 01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:22,920 Speaker 1: should happen every restaurant, every and to all these people. Yeah, 1455 01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:27,400 Speaker 1: Jennings is basically the only person at Kissinger's social level 1456 01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,719 Speaker 1: who calls him out. And imagine, and I mean he's 1457 01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:34,480 Speaker 1: he's a nightly news anchor on a major network. Imagine 1458 01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,600 Speaker 1: if you had that sort of vitriol pointed at some 1459 01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,760 Speaker 1: of these people that we have in present day, who 1460 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:42,880 Speaker 1: are again not only allowed to walk around but you're 1461 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,560 Speaker 1: still in spheres of power. But but Dick, like we 1462 01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,120 Speaker 1: were saying about Dick Cheney, Like you know, George w. 1463 01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:51,000 Speaker 1: Bush should not he should not be in public. He 1464 01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:55,400 Speaker 1: should not be releasing thoughts on Russian invasion. He certainly 1465 01:22:55,439 --> 01:23:01,479 Speaker 1: shouldn't be picking. Yeah, he shouldn't be, shouldn't he should fingers? No, 1466 01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:05,679 Speaker 1: his daughter should not be on the fucking Today Show, 1467 01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:10,080 Speaker 1: like I don't know stronger on. So I want to 1468 01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:11,800 Speaker 1: continue the story because I'm not telling with the story 1469 01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,759 Speaker 1: of Peter Jennings like calling Kissinger out at a restaurant. 1470 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,439 Speaker 1: And to finish that tale, I'm gonna quote from the 1471 01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:19,719 Speaker 1: New York magazine again. The subject of Kissinger's past sins 1472 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:21,599 Speaker 1: was very much in the air at the time. Judges 1473 01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,280 Speaker 1: in both France and Spain were seeking Kissinger for questioning. 1474 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,920 Speaker 1: Is the long simmering debate over his connection to Chilean 1475 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,519 Speaker 1: General Augusto Pinochet's brutal killing of dissidents in the seventies 1476 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,479 Speaker 1: returned with a vengeance, not least in Christopher Hitchens right 1477 01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,080 Speaker 1: ringing indictment the trial of Henry Kissinger. These developments clearly 1478 01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:39,960 Speaker 1: rattled Kissinger, who had preemptively written a lengthy article for 1479 01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,879 Speaker 1: Foreign Affairs decrying the dangerous legal precedent of using universal 1480 01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,320 Speaker 1: jurisdiction to try state actors for past actions, the same 1481 01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:50,480 Speaker 1: precedent under which German courts hoped to try Donald Rumsfeld. 1482 01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,400 Speaker 1: The question in the question by Peter Jennings, how does 1483 01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,040 Speaker 1: it feel to be a war criminal? Stunned the dinner guests, 1484 01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,559 Speaker 1: who included Time Inc. Editor Henry Grunwald, who also died 1485 01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:04,040 Speaker 1: last year and Yeah, and former ABC chairman Thomas Murphy. 1486 01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:11,440 Speaker 1: Gruenwald told Jennings the comment was unsuitable. Yeah, as unsuitable 1487 01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:16,080 Speaker 1: as fucking bombing Cambodia, Like Jesus fucking Christ. This is 1488 01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,760 Speaker 1: the manners they care about, manners they don't care about 1489 01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:22,120 Speaker 1: all the And to to his credit, when like Gruenwald 1490 01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,479 Speaker 1: is like Peter, that's really unsuitable, Peter's like, I don't 1491 01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:26,680 Speaker 1: give a ship. He's a fucking criminal. He doesn't say 1492 01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,040 Speaker 1: that exactly, Peter, he says the emotional equivalent of that. 1493 01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:34,560 Speaker 1: Barbara Walters later said, at the moment, I tried to 1494 01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:37,160 Speaker 1: change the subject, but it was a very uncomfortable moment 1495 01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:44,120 Speaker 1: talk about reacted very strongly and hurt Kissinger said nothing, man, 1496 01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:48,120 Speaker 1: it really is like you know it. You see this 1497 01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:51,680 Speaker 1: a lot when like protesters will go into events and 1498 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,920 Speaker 1: they will you know, they'll have a message, they'll have signs, 1499 01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:59,040 Speaker 1: they'll have something orchestrated set up. And not only will 1500 01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:03,920 Speaker 1: the politicis and the people on the politicians days sort 1501 01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,360 Speaker 1: of be like okay, okay, but the people at the 1502 01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:08,360 Speaker 1: event will be the ones who are like, you know, 1503 01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,720 Speaker 1: like a congressional here, this isn't the time or place, 1504 01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,519 Speaker 1: This isn't the time. It's like, there's no time or 1505 01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:18,120 Speaker 1: fucking place. What what do you fucking expect? That's all 1506 01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,559 Speaker 1: we have at this point is that's the only thing 1507 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,519 Speaker 1: you can really do is try to make them hate 1508 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:27,000 Speaker 1: living in the world they're ruining. It is a fucking 1509 01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:31,360 Speaker 1: mark of how fucked up any kind of accountability to 1510 01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:34,720 Speaker 1: the political classes in our society that the most consequence 1511 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,599 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger ever faces is Peter Jennings yelling at him dinner, 1512 01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:41,360 Speaker 1: a man who has been dead for twenty years, fifteen years. 1513 01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean, when Sarah Huckabee Sanders was out to dinner 1514 01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:46,240 Speaker 1: and some people yelled at her, I mean you saw 1515 01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:50,240 Speaker 1: both sides condemning it. Some fucking dude yell at fucking 1516 01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:54,200 Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson from people, and there are there are Republicans 1517 01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,519 Speaker 1: and Democrats who always condemn that sort of stuff. And 1518 01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,639 Speaker 1: it's not because people believe in public decorum. It's because 1519 01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,040 Speaker 1: they don't want it to show up on their fucking 1520 01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:05,200 Speaker 1: doorsteps right right, because they don't want like that ship 1521 01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,080 Speaker 1: to come back on them. And I'm sure if someone's 1522 01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:10,160 Speaker 1: gonna point out Peter Jennings did something fucked up, he 1523 01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,120 Speaker 1: must have. He was in media for very eleven. He'd 1524 01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:15,160 Speaker 1: oh right, he did nine eleven. That was Peter Jennings. 1525 01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:17,559 Speaker 1: He threw those planes right into those towers. I'd forgotten 1526 01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:23,960 Speaker 1: about that, um, But at the at fucking least he 1527 01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:27,320 Speaker 1: was there and and didn't mince words, just like your 1528 01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:29,760 Speaker 1: a war criminal, not like how does it feel to 1529 01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:31,840 Speaker 1: be here where American boys are dying? But like no, no, 1530 01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,960 Speaker 1: you did war crimes, Henry Kissinger, Fuck you. Someone has 1531 01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,920 Speaker 1: to say it. Um. In his many decades worth of 1532 01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:42,040 Speaker 1: declining years, Henley Henry has focused his remaining powers in 1533 01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:44,920 Speaker 1: an attempt to secure his legacy. In two thousand and three, 1534 01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,280 Speaker 1: he opened up his White House archives to a British 1535 01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,160 Speaker 1: history and named Nil Ferguson, whose book also just titled Kissinger. 1536 01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:54,759 Speaker 1: I've cited a few times in these episodes. Ferguson claimed 1537 01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,200 Speaker 1: his biography would quote provide a warts and all look 1538 01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:59,840 Speaker 1: at the man. But quotes he made about the relationship 1539 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:01,640 Speaker 1: with the light of that and this is Ferguson like 1540 01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:03,680 Speaker 1: writing about how jazz he is to be hanging out 1541 01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,679 Speaker 1: with Henry. I'm in Henry Kissinger's swimming pool talking about 1542 01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:09,879 Speaker 1: his meetings with mouse dung, thinking I must be dreaming 1543 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:16,360 Speaker 1: ship in that pool. I know, fucking hell nile everyone. Now, 1544 01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,600 Speaker 1: obviously I have quoted from this biography because of the 1545 01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,040 Speaker 1: details the information Kissinger provides about his early life, it 1546 01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,479 Speaker 1: is not without value. It's probably the most detailed look 1547 01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:28,200 Speaker 1: at his childhood we have. It also only goes up 1548 01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,880 Speaker 1: to nineteen, which neatly avoids the most controversial moments of 1549 01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:40,880 Speaker 1: Kissinger's life. Right, that's not great the story. Yeah, that 1550 01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,479 Speaker 1: was the end of Henry Kissinger. Blah blah blah. Even 1551 01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:49,960 Speaker 1: when journalists and historians that Henry hasn't authorized specifically interview him, 1552 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:52,760 Speaker 1: they are likely to find themselves enraptured or at least 1553 01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,720 Speaker 1: tripped up by his clever word play. Bob Woodward, who 1554 01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:58,960 Speaker 1: first interviewed Kissinger in seventy four, wrote, he wants to 1555 01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,760 Speaker 1: control not just what he says, but people's perceptions of 1556 01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:03,760 Speaker 1: what he says, and it's kind of like one long 1557 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,040 Speaker 1: book review where he is arguing with the reviewer of 1558 01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:09,599 Speaker 1: his book, or his life, or his policy. Seymour Hirsch 1559 01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:11,920 Speaker 1: was more blunt in nineteen eighty three when he wrote 1560 01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:17,760 Speaker 1: he lies like most people Breathe now the most comprehensive 1561 01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:20,360 Speaker 1: biography of Henry Kissinger and the one if you were looking. 1562 01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:23,320 Speaker 1: If you're looking for just a book on Kissinger's influence 1563 01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:25,240 Speaker 1: in Like the US and how toxic it was, I 1564 01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:28,320 Speaker 1: recommend Kissinger's Shadow by Grandon. If you want an actual 1565 01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:31,320 Speaker 1: biography of Kissinger's whole life and time and power, I 1566 01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:36,479 Speaker 1: recommend Walter Isaacson's book Kissinger. I actually think Isaacson is 1567 01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:40,120 Speaker 1: too fair to Henry Kissinger. But even so, even though 1568 01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:43,519 Speaker 1: he clearly like does not wholly condemn the man, I 1569 01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:47,680 Speaker 1: find the book utterly damning. Right like the book condemns him, 1570 01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:52,240 Speaker 1: even I Isaacson doesn't such a piece of shape. It's 1571 01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:55,880 Speaker 1: just impossible if you're accurate, and I think is pretty 1572 01:28:55,880 --> 01:29:01,120 Speaker 1: at Yeah. Now, the best thing I can say about 1573 01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:05,839 Speaker 1: Isaacson's book Kissinger is that Henry Kissinger himself complained endlessly 1574 01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:09,800 Speaker 1: about it. He wind to Isaacson's boss, Henry Grunwald, who 1575 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:12,599 Speaker 1: defended Isaacson and said he felt the book was balanced 1576 01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:15,840 Speaker 1: and down the middle. Kissinceer responded, what right does that 1577 01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:18,240 Speaker 1: young man have to be balanced and down the middle 1578 01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:25,000 Speaker 1: about me? I mean, wow, just it just shows you. 1579 01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean, like he should never be in the position 1580 01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:32,479 Speaker 1: where he should be pointing out that other people are crazy. No, no, 1581 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,599 Speaker 1: you don't get to say that, Henry. Yeah. As New 1582 01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:41,960 Speaker 1: York Magazine notes, Kissinger denies that exchange ever happened. Um, 1583 01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:44,240 Speaker 1: I believe Henry. I mean, the guy does a lie. 1584 01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:47,200 Speaker 1: He seems like an honest man. I bet Nixton still 1585 01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,160 Speaker 1: had him wire tapped. And here here's a quote from 1586 01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:53,000 Speaker 1: that article. It's very funny. I've never read the Isaacson book, 1587 01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:55,599 Speaker 1: he says, then quickly clarifies. I've read a few parts 1588 01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,799 Speaker 1: of the isaacs which I didn't like, but I understand 1589 01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:00,439 Speaker 1: that there are many parts of the books that are 1590 01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,799 Speaker 1: very positive. I missed those, he says, with a sly smile. 1591 01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,720 Speaker 1: That is so, that is so trumpy. I know it 1592 01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:12,200 Speaker 1: really is right. I didn't read it. I read parts 1593 01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:18,479 Speaker 1: one through. Isaacson says, Kissinger wrote him a series of 1594 01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:22,559 Speaker 1: letters contesting numerous passenges. My view, and this is Isaacson, 1595 01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,120 Speaker 1: My view is that if Kissinger reread his own memoirs, 1596 01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,280 Speaker 1: who would be outraged that they did not treat him 1597 01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:35,280 Speaker 1: favorably enough? Kissinger, who wrote this? You did? That's sort 1598 01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:39,360 Speaker 1: of a bit I gotta get me. Kissinger claims to 1599 01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:42,519 Speaker 1: be unconcerned about his place in history. I cannot defect 1600 01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:44,960 Speaker 1: my legacy, he says. And what does he think his 1601 01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:47,840 Speaker 1: legacy is? I have no view, he says. I can't 1602 01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:50,320 Speaker 1: control it by what I say. I tell him I 1603 01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:55,439 Speaker 1: don't believe him. You're not in your eighties yet, he replies. Now, 1604 01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,360 Speaker 1: a lot has been made about Kissinger's purported role in 1605 01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:00,519 Speaker 1: like the invasion of Iraq. He did it apparently like 1606 01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:02,880 Speaker 1: urge Bush and Cheney to go through with it. I 1607 01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:06,000 Speaker 1: think crediting him with specifically with having an impact on 1608 01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:09,120 Speaker 1: that is not realistic because this is Bush and Cheney. 1609 01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:11,160 Speaker 1: By the time they talked to Kissinger about this, they 1610 01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,479 Speaker 1: had made up their you know, it's probably didn't push 1611 01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:16,320 Speaker 1: them into invading Iraq. It's like similar when like the 1612 01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:20,320 Speaker 1: Queens of the Stone Age have Dave Groll on drums. Yeah, exactly. 1613 01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,439 Speaker 1: He's a player for sure, but he's not writing all 1614 01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,280 Speaker 1: the songs. I mean, Josh, he's got. Kissinger is definitely 1615 01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:31,600 Speaker 1: the Dave Groll of the Bush administration. Um. And I 1616 01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:35,280 Speaker 1: think that rather than like actually being a meaningful role 1617 01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:37,479 Speaker 1: in arranging consent for the invasion of Iraq, I think 1618 01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,519 Speaker 1: Kissinger was doing here what he always did. He was 1619 01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:41,920 Speaker 1: sucking up to powerful people to tell them by telling 1620 01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,360 Speaker 1: them what they wanted to hear. And the best example 1621 01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,640 Speaker 1: of this comes from two thousand eight, when during a 1622 01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:50,679 Speaker 1: presidential debate, both John McCain and Barack Obama cited Kissinger 1623 01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:54,760 Speaker 1: as supporting their positions towards Iran. Both men held opposite 1624 01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:56,759 Speaker 1: views of what the U. S Should do in regards 1625 01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:01,240 Speaker 1: to that country. So, Mike, like you might expect, like, 1626 01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,160 Speaker 1: and I don't think either of them is lying. I 1627 01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:05,439 Speaker 1: think they're both because I think Kissinger just would be like, yeah, 1628 01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:08,360 Speaker 1: of course that's the right call. Absolutely. Look, look what 1629 01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:10,000 Speaker 1: the start date to be, just so I can put 1630 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:17,080 Speaker 1: it in my good call. Guys, we should invade them 1631 01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:21,960 Speaker 1: and leave them alone. Yeah. So um yeah. As a 1632 01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:24,720 Speaker 1: young law student at Yale, Hillary Clinton had taken part 1633 01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,840 Speaker 1: an outrage protests against Kissinger's bombing of Cambodia as Secretary 1634 01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:32,080 Speaker 1: of State. She praised the astute observations he shared with her, 1635 01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:34,040 Speaker 1: and wrote in a review of one of his books, 1636 01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:37,960 Speaker 1: Kissinger is a friend. And again the astute observations are 1637 01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:40,240 Speaker 1: Kissinger saying whatever she wanted to do was the right 1638 01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:43,120 Speaker 1: thing to do, right, Like, that's that's what That's why 1639 01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,680 Speaker 1: these people like like him and think he's astute. He's not. 1640 01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,360 Speaker 1: I think he does today get kind of like looked 1641 01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:51,080 Speaker 1: at his this secret power pulling the strings. I think 1642 01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:54,120 Speaker 1: instead he's just like the ultimate kiss ass. He's just like, oh, 1643 01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:55,880 Speaker 1: you're in power. Nout. Yeah, whatever you want to do 1644 01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:57,880 Speaker 1: is the is the good thing to do? Absolutely right? 1645 01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:03,960 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah. I would tell people like if you're 1646 01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:06,559 Speaker 1: if you're young and you don't understand what it means 1647 01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:10,280 Speaker 1: to see Hiller Clinton standing there with with Kissinger. It's 1648 01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:12,800 Speaker 1: no different than in in ten years, if all a 1649 01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:17,320 Speaker 1: sudden your Democrat candidate standings to Cheney, You're like, what 1650 01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:19,439 Speaker 1: the fun is going on? And I guarantee you that 1651 01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:21,479 Speaker 1: lost her. A bunch of people didn't vote for because 1652 01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:27,400 Speaker 1: they saw her standing. Yeah, I guarantee guarantee h and um, yeah, 1653 01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:29,760 Speaker 1: I think though when you're trying to talk about like 1654 01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:32,600 Speaker 1: his actual influence and like the fucked up things that 1655 01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:34,800 Speaker 1: have been happening in the last couple of decades. It's 1656 01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:37,600 Speaker 1: less than whatever advice he was giving politician Airby, And 1657 01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:39,600 Speaker 1: it's more in the way he shaped the way the 1658 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:44,320 Speaker 1: US government functions in terms of foreign policy. He centralized 1659 01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:48,240 Speaker 1: power and set the precedent of allowing the executive branch 1660 01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,240 Speaker 1: to execute military actions without consent of anyone outside the 1661 01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:53,559 Speaker 1: White House. And obviously there were like things that were 1662 01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:55,880 Speaker 1: done to restrict the power of the executive branch from 1663 01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:58,200 Speaker 1: doing that, but then those things were all undone after 1664 01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:00,200 Speaker 1: the like right like if this, if this kind of 1665 01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:03,400 Speaker 1: tuggle war thing. Um. But Kissinger, even though he did 1666 01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:06,880 Speaker 1: not set obviously the policy after nine eleven that that 1667 01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:11,240 Speaker 1: expanded the executive government's ability to to do military ship abroad, 1668 01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:13,800 Speaker 1: he did set the present of like how you would 1669 01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,479 Speaker 1: actually centralize power in that way within the executive and 1670 01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:20,320 Speaker 1: he made up he set a lot of ideological and 1671 01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:23,960 Speaker 1: philosophical trends that are still shaping the way the US 1672 01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:28,240 Speaker 1: government functions in regards to foreign policy today. And if 1673 01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:31,520 Speaker 1: you're looking for perhaps the most direct and succinct explanation 1674 01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,839 Speaker 1: for how Kissinger influenced the world of modern American politics, 1675 01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:37,519 Speaker 1: you can find it in this quote he himself wrote 1676 01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three. There are two kinds of realists, 1677 01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:43,920 Speaker 1: those who manipulate facts and those who create them. The 1678 01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,960 Speaker 1: West requires nothing so much as men able to create 1679 01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:53,400 Speaker 1: their own reality. Wow. Wow, wow to not to not 1680 01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,360 Speaker 1: be able to define realists and you're two to definite 1681 01:34:56,439 --> 01:35:00,280 Speaker 1: tear two tier definition of realism is absolutely deliverable. Yeah, 1682 01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:03,760 Speaker 1: for neither of your definitions of realists to involve people 1683 01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:06,360 Speaker 1: who care about material reality. Yeah, what did you say 1684 01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:07,800 Speaker 1: in the first one? I was like, Oh, the second 1685 01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:10,560 Speaker 1: one is gonna be realists. It's like no, no, no, no, 1686 01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:15,400 Speaker 1: No other one is realists. No. So that's Henry Kissinger. 1687 01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:19,680 Speaker 1: It's it's so unbelievable. And to what you like, you know, 1688 01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:25,080 Speaker 1: he really he his legacy, like you're sort of saying, 1689 01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:28,880 Speaker 1: is not just directly connected to the things he's connected 1690 01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:34,519 Speaker 1: to because there was no um prosecution for what Nixon did, 1691 01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:38,320 Speaker 1: and there's no prosecution for Reagan did, and there's no 1692 01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:42,960 Speaker 1: prosecution because we never prosecute and we never actually hold 1693 01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:47,040 Speaker 1: any of these people accountable. You know, you do see 1694 01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:51,479 Speaker 1: the seeds of that flourish now like you can invade. 1695 01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:54,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we're at the point where most people don't 1696 01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:59,320 Speaker 1: even know we've invaded countries we've invaded, Like at least 1697 01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:04,519 Speaker 1: with Vietnam, people had access to seeing it and being 1698 01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:07,479 Speaker 1: disgusted by it. And then under Bush it was like, well, 1699 01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:10,360 Speaker 1: we're not going to show the coffins returning, And you said, 1700 01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:12,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just Republicans. You see it under 1701 01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:14,959 Speaker 1: democratic presidents to it just as kind of more egregious 1702 01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:18,519 Speaker 1: at times under Republican presidents. But you know, it's it's 1703 01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:22,639 Speaker 1: every president gets more powerful, does more, and it does 1704 01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:26,599 Speaker 1: kind of boil down to they're going to be evil. 1705 01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:33,559 Speaker 1: Journalists and media need to recognize what they're fucking jobs are. 1706 01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:36,200 Speaker 1: If you're in some of these jobs, like it's it 1707 01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:40,760 Speaker 1: should not be a popularity contest for access only there 1708 01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:45,000 Speaker 1: should be you should be beholden to doing good and 1709 01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:51,120 Speaker 1: and making these people held accountable. Because it's so relevant 1710 01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:54,160 Speaker 1: in what you're talking about with Kissinger that they just 1711 01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:58,759 Speaker 1: let the access to him because he became a popular figure, 1712 01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:02,479 Speaker 1: completely blind i'd them as to what was actually going on. Well, 1713 01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,800 Speaker 1: it's actually worse than not punishing them. Remember when when 1714 01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:09,760 Speaker 1: Obama was elected, everyone was like, these guys have to 1715 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:12,760 Speaker 1: be tried for war crimes, and he said, we got 1716 01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:15,400 Speaker 1: to move on. And you know that we're talking about 1717 01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,680 Speaker 1: torture in war crimes and everything else. But it went, 1718 01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:22,840 Speaker 1: it went further than that, because they gave Bush like 1719 01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:25,080 Speaker 1: the Medal of Freedom. I mean, there's a picture of 1720 01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:29,400 Speaker 1: fucking Biden hanging on his chest. And they also they 1721 01:37:29,479 --> 01:37:36,320 Speaker 1: also honored this guy named Henry Kissinger did honored him. 1722 01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:40,599 Speaker 1: So it's beyond not doing anything. Well, it's not even 1723 01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:43,280 Speaker 1: just it's not even just him. I mean, it's just 1724 01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:47,120 Speaker 1: it's systemic. It's just and you know what if you 1725 01:37:47,200 --> 01:37:48,960 Speaker 1: are if you are one of these, if you are 1726 01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:51,840 Speaker 1: a fucking anchor at CNN, like if you're Jim Acosta, 1727 01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:55,040 Speaker 1: think of how fucking popular you would be if you 1728 01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:59,000 Speaker 1: did just start using your access to just be like 1729 01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:04,519 Speaker 1: Peter Jennings likes here, we are craving this fucking figure. 1730 01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:09,080 Speaker 1: But they would be immediately fired. I mean but they 1731 01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:12,559 Speaker 1: would be, but you would also, I mean, having even 1732 01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:16,880 Speaker 1: a moment of that would carry your career. Like if 1733 01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:21,160 Speaker 1: we had that Peter Jennings ship now, it would go 1734 01:38:21,400 --> 01:38:24,839 Speaker 1: so viral and people would talk about that person endlessly. 1735 01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:28,280 Speaker 1: That I mean, it's like, it's like when you know 1736 01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:35,080 Speaker 1: when billionaires started competing over being philanthropists. You know you 1737 01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:39,799 Speaker 1: at some point you're so far in the other direction 1738 01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:42,760 Speaker 1: that you're not that far off from just doing the 1739 01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:46,120 Speaker 1: thing that is you're supposed to do is going to 1740 01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:49,600 Speaker 1: be such a radical move. It's this, it's very frustrating. 1741 01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:52,320 Speaker 1: Like right now you have all of these big media 1742 01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:55,760 Speaker 1: figures like moving their shows to Ukraine to be able 1743 01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:58,920 Speaker 1: to film shelling in the distance, and obviously to be 1744 01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:02,240 Speaker 1: a journalist in combat up close, covering war crimes up 1745 01:39:02,280 --> 01:39:05,120 Speaker 1: close requires a lot of physical courage. Those like Sky 1746 01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:07,960 Speaker 1: News reporters who got fucking shot and Ship the Daily 1747 01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:12,120 Speaker 1: Beast reporters got shot that but like being like Lester Holt, 1748 01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:15,879 Speaker 1: like having your show filmed with like shelling in the distance. 1749 01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:20,479 Speaker 1: They have massive security teams, they have massive resources invested 1750 01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,200 Speaker 1: in making sure they are in as little danger as 1751 01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:26,400 Speaker 1: they can possibly be, and more than anything, they are 1752 01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:28,760 Speaker 1: out there and doing it for the fucking cloud. Because 1753 01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:31,439 Speaker 1: that that is easy to like feels like I'm brave. 1754 01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,920 Speaker 1: What's actually brave is Peter Jennings yelling at Henry Kissinger 1755 01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:38,240 Speaker 1: at a fucking dinner party full of powerful people and 1756 01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:40,439 Speaker 1: making sure that for just a second he has a 1757 01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:42,960 Speaker 1: moment of accountability. And if one of them was willing 1758 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:44,640 Speaker 1: to do fucking that to any of these goals, I 1759 01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:46,160 Speaker 1: would have a lot more respect than I would have 1760 01:39:46,200 --> 01:39:48,240 Speaker 1: them filming Shelling and Key from a mile and a 1761 01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:52,800 Speaker 1: half away. Yeah. Look, there there was Wolf Blitzer who 1762 01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,600 Speaker 1: during the First Gulf War put on a helmet and 1763 01:39:56,840 --> 01:40:01,439 Speaker 1: was in Saudi Arabia where st those were flying, and 1764 01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:03,800 Speaker 1: it's saying how danger he was. At the same time 1765 01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:07,120 Speaker 1: there were journalists, American journalists in the fucking bag that 1766 01:40:07,240 --> 01:40:12,200 Speaker 1: hotel being being shot at and rocketed by American troops, 1767 01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:16,439 Speaker 1: and those guys didn't work anymore. And will Blitzer got 1768 01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:18,920 Speaker 1: his own TV show on seeing it. Or Brian Williams 1769 01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:20,599 Speaker 1: when he talked to when he was like the way 1770 01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,360 Speaker 1: that he embellished his his story about like getting off 1771 01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:29,880 Speaker 1: of a helicopter and taking RPG fire. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1772 01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:34,040 Speaker 1: I mean I don't know, we could use another Jennings 1773 01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:36,040 Speaker 1: or two at least in this regard. Yeah, I mean 1774 01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:38,240 Speaker 1: it's it's hard because it's like, what would you, I mean, 1775 01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:40,640 Speaker 1: what would like you're like, we want like we want 1776 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,560 Speaker 1: a politician for the people, and it's like I like 1777 01:40:43,720 --> 01:40:46,760 Speaker 1: that's like that's what you wish for, but you like 1778 01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:50,560 Speaker 1: the step first is to just have these people vilified 1779 01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,800 Speaker 1: for the things they should be vilified for. Yeah, it 1780 01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:57,720 Speaker 1: would be nice if there was a journalist. That's the 1781 01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:06,120 Speaker 1: end of the state. Well, honestly, like this was, I 1782 01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:11,960 Speaker 1: mean just fucking incredible and just such a ridiculous stick. 1783 01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:14,840 Speaker 1: He's a pretty bad one, right, I don't think I 1784 01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:19,640 Speaker 1: don't think he is. He I know that there was 1785 01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:23,800 Speaker 1: talk of like into the countries, of like trying him 1786 01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:28,560 Speaker 1: outside of you know, not having him there. Yeah, but 1787 01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:31,280 Speaker 1: can he travel anywhere he wants or is he he 1788 01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:33,920 Speaker 1: restricted he can't I'm not aware of. I mean there 1789 01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:36,960 Speaker 1: may be. Like he also now like he's become like 1790 01:41:37,120 --> 01:41:39,240 Speaker 1: this watery figure. So he's kind of like the T 1791 01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:41,439 Speaker 1: one thousand where if you just get close to him, 1792 01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:43,479 Speaker 1: he turns into silver goo and just can go through 1793 01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:46,559 Speaker 1: a drain or something. You can't put a handcuff around 1794 01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:49,080 Speaker 1: a pile of watery goo. I mean, he's he's a 1795 01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:52,000 Speaker 1: big part. Like he he argues vociferously for why like 1796 01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:54,680 Speaker 1: Rumpsfeld shouldn't be able to be charged, and I think 1797 01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:59,360 Speaker 1: Germany it is. And he's doing it like selfishly. He 1798 01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:02,200 Speaker 1: would put his and Jerry danger right like I'm giving 1799 01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:04,800 Speaker 1: it enough loyalty to Rummy, who he probably hates at 1800 01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:06,760 Speaker 1: this point. Although I don't know that Kissinger can take 1801 01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:10,000 Speaker 1: things personally actually, so maybe, like I don't know, he's 1802 01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:15,040 Speaker 1: almost he's like the Bill Walsh coaching Tree of War Criminals. Yeah, 1803 01:42:15,479 --> 01:42:17,360 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. Well, Bill Walsh like 1804 01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:20,120 Speaker 1: coach the forty Niners and invented the West Coast offense 1805 01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:22,759 Speaker 1: and you just see the ripple effect through the NFL 1806 01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:27,439 Speaker 1: for generations and decades changed football. It just changed everything. 1807 01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:29,560 Speaker 1: And it's like that's what he did. He just was 1808 01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:31,320 Speaker 1: the guy who was like, you know, I came up 1809 01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:34,040 Speaker 1: with a new offense, and it's like everyone's just reading 1810 01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:37,240 Speaker 1: off of that playbook and tweaking it. Yeah. That guy 1811 01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:47,240 Speaker 1: you said robber football is when uh okay the title 1812 01:42:47,320 --> 01:42:52,519 Speaker 1: of this episode like that guy, Garrett said of the football, 1813 01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:56,360 Speaker 1: but the politics. I liked the two yeahs that preceded 1814 01:42:56,439 --> 01:43:00,680 Speaker 1: your I don't know who that guy? Yeah, hey, who 1815 01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:04,479 Speaker 1: is that? Yeah? It's like it's like in basketball when 1816 01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:10,760 Speaker 1: Phil Jackson made the offense triangle diplomacy, it's like the 1817 01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:16,120 Speaker 1: triangle thing. Yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah, alright, alright, ale an 1818 01:43:16,200 --> 01:43:19,719 Speaker 1: offense is the opposite of defense, right, what everyone said, 1819 01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:22,640 Speaker 1: That's what everyone said. In my opinion, it definitely is. 1820 01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:25,920 Speaker 1: You know, the team with the most points wins, well, 1821 01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:29,320 Speaker 1: for sure that's going to be critical. Yeah. Absolutely. And 1822 01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:31,880 Speaker 1: you know when the overtime gets the first down, that's 1823 01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:36,200 Speaker 1: really that's that's causing finishing. You've nailed it already. Absolutely, 1824 01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:44,240 Speaker 1: three pointer a touchdown for Robert. Let's go Globetrotters. Well, honestly, 1825 01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:48,720 Speaker 1: thank you for allowing us to enter your dojo and 1826 01:43:49,320 --> 01:43:51,479 Speaker 1: mess around for a little while. I don't know if 1827 01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:55,920 Speaker 1: thank you was the right thank you. I thank you 1828 01:43:56,200 --> 01:44:00,320 Speaker 1: for listening to me read one thousand words about Hinry Kissing, 1829 01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:05,040 Speaker 1: because we talked about it and I was like, I 1830 01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:07,120 Speaker 1: can't do it because it's not one episode. It's so 1831 01:44:07,439 --> 01:44:11,040 Speaker 1: any episode. Yeah, this is like the minimum I think 1832 01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,680 Speaker 1: you can responsibly cover Henry Kissinger. Like we could have 1833 01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:21,000 Speaker 1: done another couple episodes. Hey, let's do it it, Garett, Yes, 1834 01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:25,040 Speaker 1: let's just rip a couple. Yeah, we'll get a couple 1835 01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:27,599 Speaker 1: of photos of him hanging out with Jill st John 1836 01:44:27,800 --> 01:44:31,360 Speaker 1: joke about his hog. Yeah, let's take it on the road. 1837 01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:35,200 Speaker 1: We can get another forty minutes of content out of that. Honestly, 1838 01:44:35,640 --> 01:44:38,000 Speaker 1: we could just keep redoing parts of this on the 1839 01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:40,120 Speaker 1: road for a year and a half. The Doll Up 1840 01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:43,559 Speaker 1: and Behind the Bastards present three guys going through shots 1841 01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:46,280 Speaker 1: of Henry Kissinger at fancy parties and talking about the 1842 01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:50,880 Speaker 1: shape of his dick under his pants. Honestly, honestly, should work. 1843 01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,200 Speaker 1: Looks like he was having a chubb day to day. 1844 01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:57,639 Speaker 1: What do you think, Dave all nuts on the table. 1845 01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:00,720 Speaker 1: That the only one I'm focused on. Look at those 1846 01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:08,120 Speaker 1: tennis shorts. This is how we make our millions. Well, genuinely, 1847 01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:12,799 Speaker 1: thank you. I am generally super scared having having watched 1848 01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:18,200 Speaker 1: how Colin Powell was treated. Yes, when he died, people 1849 01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:22,120 Speaker 1: are going to react to death. Yeah, you're gonna watch 1850 01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:24,960 Speaker 1: liberals be like he was fucking awesome and you're just 1851 01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:28,960 Speaker 1: like everything about him was bad. Yeah, yeah, w it'll 1852 01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:34,840 Speaker 1: be fun. Any plug doubles at the end here, sure? Yeah? Listen. Well, 1853 01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:37,240 Speaker 1: first of all, we've got the Kissinger. We should do 1854 01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:41,160 Speaker 1: Kissinger live, and we should use the kiss font and 1855 01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:43,280 Speaker 1: we should also wear like the kiss makeup and we 1856 01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:46,599 Speaker 1: should just do kissing. Um yeah we uh. We will 1857 01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:50,559 Speaker 1: be in Australia and America. Best country on Earth will 1858 01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:52,599 Speaker 1: be in Australia in the middle of April to May. 1859 01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:55,400 Speaker 1: You can go to Dollar podcast dot com for all 1860 01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:57,640 Speaker 1: that information. Were all over the place and then I 1861 01:45:57,800 --> 01:46:00,800 Speaker 1: am doing stand up in Australia and I'll so over 1862 01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,439 Speaker 1: the summer. So you can go to Gareth Reynolds dot 1863 01:46:02,439 --> 01:46:04,760 Speaker 1: com for all that information, and you can follow us 1864 01:46:05,680 --> 01:46:09,360 Speaker 1: on social media's with our I'm at Reynolds Gareth, Dave's 1865 01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:12,920 Speaker 1: at Dave Underscore Anthony on Instagram, I'm at Reynolds Gareth 1866 01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,880 Speaker 1: on Twitter, Dave's at Dave Anthony on Twitter, and um 1867 01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:23,639 Speaker 1: whoo who all right, thank you for having us again, motherfucker. Yeah, 1868 01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:33,639 Speaker 1: everyone go pray for Henry Kissinger's painful tomise. Yeah, let's 1869 01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:36,200 Speaker 1: have Let's all hope that Tim tim Allen takes him 1870 01:46:36,240 --> 01:46:40,240 Speaker 1: out somehow. He smuggled he smuggles coke into a party 1871 01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:42,880 Speaker 1: Kissinger's at and it just blows out the old man's 1872 01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,360 Speaker 1: art or he just starts doing war improvement with kissing 1873 01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:51,640 Speaker 1: James's character. Yeah, Kissinger would be the you know, the 1874 01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:55,120 Speaker 1: the owl. He's the owl, right right, right right? No, 1875 01:46:55,240 --> 01:47:01,679 Speaker 1: you got a bomb Cambodiat Tim all right, and there's 1876 01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:07,519 Speaker 1: a good that's the note thing. Hi, everybody, Robert Evans 1877 01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,320 Speaker 1: here and my novel After the Revolution is available for 1878 01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:13,760 Speaker 1: pre order now from a k press dot org. Now, 1879 01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,680 Speaker 1: if you go to a k press dot org, you 1880 01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:18,160 Speaker 1: can find After the Revolution. Just google a k press 1881 01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:20,560 Speaker 1: dot org After the Revolution you'll find a list of 1882 01:47:20,600 --> 01:47:23,479 Speaker 1: participating indie bookstores selling my book. And if you pre 1883 01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:26,439 Speaker 1: order now from either these independent bookstores or from a 1884 01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:30,040 Speaker 1: K Press, you'll get a custom signed copy of the book, 1885 01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:32,719 Speaker 1: which I think is pretty cool. You can also preorder 1886 01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:35,360 Speaker 1: it in physical or in kindle a form from Amazon 1887 01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:39,240 Speaker 1: or pretty much wherever books are sold. So please google 1888 01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:42,880 Speaker 1: a k press after the Revolution um or find an 1889 01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:45,200 Speaker 1: indie bookstore in your area and pre order it. You'll 1890 01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:47,479 Speaker 1: get assigned a copy and you'll make me very happy.