1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Nancy Grace. Killers amongst Us, a production of 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia and Crime Online. Each and every month, we investigate 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: the mystery surrounding a different homicide. Family members, investigators, reporters, 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: and experts join us to unravel the mysteries, examine the 5 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: clues left behind, and nail the bad guys. We will 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: not turn criminals and killers into celebrities, but we will 7 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: tell the stories of crime victims so they are never forgotten. 8 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: Every day, a gorgeous young girl, Karinavatronto laces up her 9 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: running shoes, grabs her cell phone and earbuds, and heads 10 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: to her favorite jocking path, one she knows by heart. Typically, 11 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: her firefighter dad filled the try we'll go with her, 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: But this day, of all others, he doesn't join her, 13 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: and this day of all days, Karina Vatrano never comes home. Today, 14 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: firefighter dad Phil Vatrano is with us, describing heart breaking 15 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: insight into his premonition that something is horribly wrong. Almost 16 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: as soon as his beautiful daughter Karina steps out the door. 17 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: He describes his efforts to find Karina and retrace her steps. 18 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: Also with US, Newsday reporter Tony DeStefano on the case 19 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: from the very beginning. But let's start with one simple 20 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: question from Karina to her dad, Phil, Daddy, you want 21 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: to go for a run. And I asked her, are 22 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: you going to go in there, meaning in Louise where 23 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: we had just won the Saturday Flow Saturday before Tuesday? 24 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: And she said yes. And I said, I don't think 25 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: it's a good idea range and she said, don't worry, daddy, 26 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: I'll be okay. Nancy Grace Killers amongst us, thirty year 27 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: old Corina the Toronto went out for a jog around 28 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: five o'clock Tuesday and never came home. Concerned, her father 29 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: called police and went out looking for her on a 30 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: path they often ran together. I imagine his answer, the 31 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: appoint Corina the Toronto. That's what it's all about, Corina 32 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: the Toronto. If you could see her face right now, 33 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: like I'm saying, absolutely perfect. Have you ever seen one 34 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: of those people that they don't even look yo. I 35 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: remember I was rushing from Court TV, which was on 36 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: the east side, to CNN HILLN, which was on the 37 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: west side of New York, and I saw a mob 38 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: of people. Traffic was slowed, so I looked over to 39 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: see what they were doing. Uma Thurmond was there and 40 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: I looked at her. She didn't even look real. She's 41 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: so beautiful. She looked like an angel on earth. She 42 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: didn't even look like a human. When I look at 43 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: Karna Vatronto, that's how she looks. Perfect. The skin, perfect, 44 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: the eyes, the lips, the hair, the everything. But Carina 45 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: not only beautiful on the outside, but beautiful on the 46 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: inside too. The day Carina Vatronto goes jogging is a 47 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: day that lives forever in the mind of her dad, 48 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: Phil with me now Phil Vatronto, Corina's dad and Newsday 49 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: reporter Tony DeStefano. When I first read the story, all 50 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: I could think about was my dad, Mac, who I 51 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: miss every single day. We exercise together. He had a 52 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: corneer thrombosis when he was like in his thirties and 53 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: started a regimen of diet and exercise. I would run 54 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: and he would fast walk beside me. Always. Every time 55 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: we were together on vacations with my mom and dad 56 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: at home, always would exercise together, and it just struck me. 57 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: I had to meet Phil Vatronto, and I finally did. 58 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: Phil and Tony, thank you for being with us. I'm 59 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: wanna start with you, Phil, tell me about how you 60 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: would go exercising with Corina every day. Well, it started 61 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: when she was in high school that you know. She 62 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: joined the track team, the Archbisher Malloy track team, which 63 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: I was on thirty years earlier, and we would train together. 64 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: We would go to Vancoulton Park, we would go to tracks, 65 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: we would run in the neighborhood and whenever we could, 66 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: we ran together. We trained together and she would slow 67 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: down to keep up with me because I'm older and 68 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: she was a lot faster. But we both, you know, 69 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: enjoyed that and we ran together whenever we could. And 70 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: we were actually training at that point to run in 71 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: the Cuba Marathon. That's what we were training for at 72 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: that point in time. Wow, Cuba. You were going to Cuba, Yes, 73 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: and run. I didn't even know Cuba had a marathon. 74 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: I run, but not at that level. They did it 75 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: that year. Wow, So you were training that year to 76 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: go run a marathon with her in Cuba. Yes, Okay, 77 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: this is something I've never asked you, and I've asked 78 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: you a lot of questions feel on and off the air. 79 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: You've never told me about Karina as a little girl. Well, 80 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: and she was always special. She was always inquisitive. Like Karina, 81 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: she didn't speak a word till she was two years old, 82 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: but she always took everything in. And when she started 83 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: to talk, when she started to speak, she spoke in paragraphs. 84 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't like mommy day, I knew you were going 85 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: to say that. I thought you were gonna say she 86 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: spoke in full sense. I'm powagraphs right off the bat. 87 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: So she was always taking it in. And we all 88 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: know she was brilliant. She got a master degree and 89 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: she was a phenomenal writer. But as a little girl, 90 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: she was fearless. She always wanted to explore, to discover, 91 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: to she to cheek out new things. Always was very inquisitive, 92 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: and she the biggest thing about Karina was that she 93 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: was a writer. And she describes herself as being a writer. 94 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: And she describes herself as a writer not by choice. 95 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: She was born to write and she wrote many, many, many, 96 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: you know, short stories. She had a blog. But as 97 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: a little girl, you know, she was always special, always special. 98 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: Now something everything you say just struck me. But when 99 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: you said she was fearless, what did you mean by that? Well, 100 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that got her in trouble. 101 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: She took after her father. She would never think twice 102 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: about doing anything. She traveled the world. When when she 103 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: was in high school, trying to tell you a little story, 104 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: we met this couple came over my house. They were 105 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: from Amsterdam, and I was selling a piece of skin 106 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: dyeting equipment. And they came from Amsterdam and then sitting 107 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: in my backyard, and Karina was probably fifteen, she was 108 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: still in high school, and of course, and they said, well, 109 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: if you ever want to come over, wanting to come 110 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: to Amsterdam, you could stay with us, you know. Two 111 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: weeks later, Karna was on an airplane going to spend 112 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: two weeks with a couple that we don't even know. 113 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: We didn't we didn't know them, We just met them. 114 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: And she stayed on a four hundred foot decommissioned destroyer. 115 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: That's where he lived. He happened to be found. We 116 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: found out he was very wealthy. But she didn't think 117 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: twice about doing anything. I got a call from her 118 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: one day and I hear with this wind in the background, 119 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: and I said, kareated, where are you And she says, 120 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,239 Speaker 1: she says, I'm want a camel by the pyramids. So 121 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: she was afraid of nothing. Nothing. Okay, I've got to 122 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: tell you a story, Phil, and then I'm going to 123 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: get back to what we're supposed to be talking about. 124 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: Behold on. You know, I tell Phil the Toronto about 125 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: my children all the time. I took them to Scout 126 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: Camp and they've never been to sleep away because of me, Phil, 127 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: Because when I hear sleepaway camp, I immediately think murdering molestation. Right, 128 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: So I go and train and forced my husband to 129 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: take a week off and we go in the rough 130 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: and camp out for a week as volunteers at Scout Camp. 131 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: My daughter got up. You know, she's very shy. Unlike 132 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: her brother. He was doing his things. She was doing horseback, Phil. 133 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: She got up on a horse. Of course, I was 134 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: trailing at a discreet difference. The horses got into a 135 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: fight in a creek with my little girl up on 136 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: top of this huge horse. Can I tell you, I 137 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: don't know what she did. She got that horse calmed 138 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: down and on its way in about thirty seconds. When 139 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: we finally made it down off that mountain, I prayed 140 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: to God, thank you Lord for her not falling down 141 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: the mountain, And I said, Lucy how did you do that? 142 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: She said, I don't know, mom, because I don't remember 143 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: riding a horse before. And I said, well, you've ridden 144 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: a camel, and I've got a picture to prove it. 145 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: I know that's not PC Tony DeStefano, reporter, Newsday, but 146 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: she has ridden a camel, and we need to say. 147 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: That made me think. See, okay, we could talk forever 148 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: about our daughters. Okay, Anna, my son. I want to 149 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: talk to you about the day Carina decides to go jogging, 150 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: but you didn't go with her. It was all a 151 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: lot of happened stinch, you know, things that normally didn't occur, 152 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: well happening that day, you know, but but little things 153 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: that you didn't notice. You really didn't pay any attention 154 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: to it. Like Karina would call pool with one of 155 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: her girlfriends and they would drive to the train station 156 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: and take the train to the city. And that day 157 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: it was her girlfriend's day to drive, so Karina didn't 158 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: have her car. So her girlfriend got a call from 159 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: home and she left work early, so Karina didn't have 160 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: a ride home from the train station. That's the first thing. 161 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: And she called me up and she says, Daddy, I 162 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: don't a ride from the train station. You think you 163 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: could pick me up? And I said, I don't know. 164 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. Range you know, I was picking her 165 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: mother up, my wife Kathy at the hospital that day 166 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: because she just had abdominal cancer related surgery, and I said, 167 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll be home in time. So 168 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: we were texting back and forth all day, and I 169 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: finally got Kathy home around two o'clock and I told Karina, yes, 170 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: I can pick you up at the train station. So 171 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: that was one thing that happened. And then she asked 172 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: me what's for dinner tonight. I said, well, we're gonna 173 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: have steak. I'm making steaks. She says, I don't want steak. 174 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: Can we stop at at a pizza place and I'm 175 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: gonna get a slash of pizza? And I said sure, fine. 176 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: So we get home and she goes up in her room. 177 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: She eats a half a slice of pizza, and she 178 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: comes right back down and she says, I'm going for 179 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: a run. Now, that's not normal that you're gonna have 180 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: something to eat and you're automatically going to go for 181 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: a run. But she decided to go for a run. 182 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: She said, Daddy, you want to go. And the day 183 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: before I had pinched my back. It was a little 184 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: bit out, so I said, you know, my back hurts 185 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: a little bit today. I said, I'm not gonna go. 186 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: And I asked her, are you going to go in there, 187 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: meaning in Deuise where we had just run the Saturday 188 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: before Saturday before Tuesday? And she said yes. And I said, 189 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a good idea range and she said, 190 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: don't worry, daddy, I'll be okay. So she comes down. 191 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: It's about a quarter to six five forty and I 192 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: sit down and I started having my dinner and I'm 193 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: watching the news. And around six o'clock she's only gone 194 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: about twenty minutes. I started to get this feeling of uneasiness, 195 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, but I ignored it. By a quarter after six, 196 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: she was getting stronger. Six twenty seven, you know, I 197 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: call offer and now she's only gone forty minutes. Six 198 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: twenty eight. Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait 199 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: a minute. I want to go through what you're saying, 200 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: because many people in the world say we're crazy. But 201 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: Tony to Stephano is with me newsday reporter, and you've 202 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: reported on everything. But Tony I have intentionally asked crime 203 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: victimus families almost always, did you get a sense something 204 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: was wrong? Did you feel any differently that day? And 205 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: I was listening to feel talk about the little nuances, 206 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: details of the day that at the time didn't mean anything. 207 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: I can't tell you, Tony, how many times I've gone 208 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: back over the day my fiance was murdered and remembered 209 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: this detail and that detail, and what if this and 210 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: what if that? Things that really didn't amount to a 211 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: hill of beans, but maybe they did, Tony. Have you 212 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: ever heard other crime victims state they had that sense 213 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: of foreboding that feel is describing. I have, yes, And 214 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: what particularly made of fils feeling very palpable was that 215 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: it underscore for me the closeness that he had with 216 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: Karna on so many levels. And you know people poo 217 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: poo the psychic and poopoo the you know, the bonds 218 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: that developed between parents and children and spouses and uh 219 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: and you know, siblings. But this seemed to me to 220 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: underscore that kind of attachment. When I heard that story, 221 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: and I've heard a number of times, and he's also 222 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: talked to me about it, but I've heard it from 223 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: other other crime well, you know another thing, Tony to 224 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: Stephano joining me Newsday report order Tony win feel described 225 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: the weeds. Give me a visual about where Carina went jogging. 226 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the area is beautiful. Could you describe it 227 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: for us? What does it look like? Yeah? I could's 228 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: it used to be an old landfill, but it is 229 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: a federal park at the stage, and it has these 230 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: tall in the summertime certainly, and then the spring these 231 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: tall are they call them frag mighty weeds, which are 232 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: very tall weeds which can go up to eight to 233 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: ten feet. And the hiking trails and the running trails 234 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: the course through it, you know, surrounded by these tall 235 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: weeds which give it like a fence almost around around 236 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: your trails. It's all green. By the way, there are 237 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: some trees sprinkled in the park and in the area 238 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: Karina when jogging, there are some trees. Uh it borders 239 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: adjacent uh wet lands. Uh so you know it abuts 240 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: on the south side water and on the north and 241 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: sort of west sides or the highway to what water? 242 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: Oh that would be I think that's Jamaica Bay. Jamaica 243 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: Bay and uh it borders uh Spring Creek Park on 244 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: two sides. Basically, these are the south and sort of 245 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: the southeastern side, and they're fishermen who occasionally, you know, 246 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: work the area. Uh, and some homeless people too in 247 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: some parts of let's let's you know, uh, let's give 248 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: a complete picture. But it's it's uh, it's it's a 249 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: nice place if you want a jog. It's not a 250 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: bad place to jog. I can think of better places. 251 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: The jarg well, I mean, it sounds it sounds beautiful 252 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: and phil I've run and jogged my whole life. Well really, 253 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 1: actually when I got out of law school, it's when 254 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: I really got serious about it. Every day through inner 255 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: city Atlanta, I don't know what I was thinking. And 256 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: in New York, up and down the East River at night, 257 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: I don't know what I was thinking. And you know 258 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people have attacked Karina for running in 259 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: um tights and a midge of shirt, which is what 260 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: I mean, That's what I would always run in and 261 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: never thought anything about it. It sounds like a yeah, exactly, yeah, 262 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: And I was just thinking about this area and everybody. 263 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: It's on Long Island and on either side is an 264 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: expanse of water. It's beautiful, It's absolutely beautiful imagining her 265 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: jog along with those tall green You're saying weeds, but 266 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: I think of things that look like a saw grass 267 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: or a bamboo on either she's running through there. And 268 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: and Phil, you said she left five thirty ish. Yeah, 269 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: you sat down. So she had pizza and you had steak. 270 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: All right. That was always a big deal when we 271 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: would grill out steak when I was growing up, because 272 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have any money and my mom 273 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: would send me to the grocery store and say, go 274 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: ask the meat guy for five steaks a quarter inch thick. 275 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: Now at the time, I did not realize, you know, 276 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: that was to save money. But I mean, it's like 277 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: a piece of paper. But so you're eating, you're watching 278 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: the news, and I want to explore what you just 279 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: told me about that feeling that came over you. Well, 280 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, Koreean, the call that a happy place. She 281 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: always she called her a happy place to me, tough friends. 282 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: You know, she would she would love to be out 283 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: in nature, and that's where she was and she was 284 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: enjoying herself. And this feeling started to come upon me 285 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: and I called her at six twenty seven, six twenty eight, 286 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: six thirty. The feeling, what did it feel? I knew 287 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: something was wrong, something was not right. I didn't know what. 288 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know if she got hurt. I didn't know 289 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: if she got attacked or bitten by a dog. I 290 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: didn't know what it was, but I knew something was wrong. 291 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: So at six thirty I yell out a curse. And 292 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: then my wife is upstairs in the bedroom recuperating, and 293 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: she hears me yelled, and she said, what's the matter. 294 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: And I said, Karina went out running and she's not 295 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: answering her phone. Now, Kathy was not even aware that 296 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: Karena was out. So I said, I'm going out, and 297 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: I left the house just with my phone, a pair 298 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: of shorts and a pair of boots and that's all 299 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: I had on. And I started to walk the trail 300 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: to from where we would start to where we would 301 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: turn around, and constantly calling her name, Karina, Karina, Karina. 302 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: Now I called her phone and I left a voicemail. 303 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: I think it was came over it six forty around there, 304 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: six forty one. And at that point when I got 305 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 1: to the point where we would turn around and I 306 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: couldn't find her, I didn't know what to do. So 307 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: I called the house. I said, it's Kaarina home, and 308 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: Kathy says no, I said, what should I do? Oh? Right, 309 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: right right there, right there. You've walked the entire round. 310 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: She's not there. She's not home. She told you the 311 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: route she was going, so you know, she didn't deviate. 312 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,719 Speaker 1: So was it dark by that time? Pheel, No, it was. 313 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: It was August. It was. It was six o'clock in 314 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: the evening. We still had another two and a half 315 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: hours a daylight. I remember seeing a video of Karina, 316 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: just a glimpse, must have been from someone's um home 317 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: security and she was just jogging by. I saw she 318 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: had earbuds in her ears. Yes, yes, she was wearing earbuds. 319 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: Does she listen to music or a book on tape? 320 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: What would she listen to? No, No, she always listened 321 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: to her music. She would listen to her music. And 322 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: that that is another thing, you know, because she couldn't 323 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 1: hear if anybody was coming after her. She couldn't hear 324 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: any hustling. She was just in her own state of grace, 325 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, listening to her music and running where she 326 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: loved to run. I'm thinking about when you are there 327 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: and you call back home and Kathy tells you she's 328 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: not home. What went through your mind? I said. I 329 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: asked her what should I do? And she said, call John. Now. 330 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: John is a lifelong friend of mine I grew up 331 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: with since we're eight years old, who happened to be 332 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: a three start chief in the police department. And I said, John, 333 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: you were a firefighter at your whole career. Yes, I said, 334 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: And John's father went to firement also, so I said, John. 335 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: Karen went running in the weeks because people of our 336 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: rage I grew up there, we call it the weeks. 337 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: And I said, she, I can't find that. She's not 338 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: answering her phone. He didn't ask me when she left him. 339 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: In all he said to me was Phil, where are you? 340 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: I told him where I was. He said, stay right there. 341 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: I'm sending a patrol call with the sergeant in it, 342 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: and I'm on my way home. And that's how I 343 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: how it started. Okay, I just gotta tell you something, Phil. 344 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: Right now, Jack, you look at me, I'm just getting 345 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: chills all up and down my legs and arms because 346 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of you standing there amongst all those 347 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: tall like saw grass, bamboo growth and you're looking for 348 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: her and you can't find her, and she's not at home. 349 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, like looking down on you in the 350 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: middle of all this expanse, looking for your girl, and 351 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: when you call him, he says her on her, Wait, 352 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: what did you do? Just stand there? Keep calling her? 353 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: What did you do? Well? I called her a number 354 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: of times. She didn't answer. Then the patrol clab pulled up. 355 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: I had since moved on to the street, which was 356 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: only about one hundred foot away. The patrol clab pulled 357 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: up and they said, what's going on? And I told 358 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: him and they said, okay, you wait here. We're going 359 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: in on the entrance about a half a mile away. 360 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: There's an entrance to get in there with a vehicle. 361 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: They said you stay here, and I said okay. So 362 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: I stayed there for probably about thirty seconds. Then they said, no, 363 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: hell with this, and I backtracked a trail back to 364 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: my house. I changed my clothes, I got into a 365 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: long pans, long sleeve shirt, and I started to look 366 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: for her again. I went on a different trail that 367 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: went in a different direction. And at that point, why 368 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: did you feel that you could not stay there and 369 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: feel I haven't told you this. I took the twins 370 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: on a Disney cruise, which was awesome, and they had 371 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: this like a tween hangout spot where you can like 372 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: play foodsball or cards and all that. Lucy, my daughter, 373 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: who shy, did not want to hang around. She came 374 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: back to the room. Well, I brought her back. John 375 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: David stayed and they had waukeie talkies. They were and 376 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: the people were to tell me when he was ready 377 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: to leave it, I would come get It was all 378 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: the way on the other side of this giant ship, 379 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: the fantasy, I think it was. Well, finally it got 380 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: to be ten o'clock and yes, we were on vacation, 381 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: but I thought they should be ready to leave because 382 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: he had been there since eight. So I called and 383 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: they go, oh, he left. He left. I nearly my 384 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: head nearly blew on, and my husband went, I'll go 385 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: look for him. I'm good, go look for him. And 386 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: I sat there. I had on my pj's, which are 387 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: shorts and a T shirt, and I said, I can't 388 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: sit here. After about fifteen seconds said Lucy, put on 389 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: your shoes. We're out. She and I go out in 390 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: our pajamas and tennis shoes, and I started running and 391 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: running toward the other end. I had no idea what 392 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: level he may be on, screaming his name, and when 393 00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: I saw him at the end of that hallway, ever 394 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: forget it and I'm just thinking about you. And they 395 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: say statehood and you're like, oh, hell no, no, no, 396 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: that's what I said. Okay, So what happened? So I 397 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: started looking on another trail, and this is only a 398 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: half hour after I called John. Above me appears a 399 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: helicopter that he had already had sent out two helicopters, 400 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, heat seekers that can see, you know, pick 401 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: up body images. So there were already helicopters there within 402 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: forty five minutes after I called him. And when I 403 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: came out of the trail again, there were probably thirty 404 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: forty fifty police officers. There was a command post set 405 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: up already. John was there, canines came in, we had 406 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: two bloodhounds already. This was within an hour and a half. 407 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: This is the whole command post. Who set up and 408 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: we're looking everywhere now. He asked me what was her 409 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 1: phone number, and of course I didn't know her code, 410 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: so he called the carrier had the phone unlocked and 411 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: the tayrou unit, which is a police departing uit, it 412 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: pinned her phone and they found it within seven hundred 413 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: feet of my house. Now they pinned it from a 414 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: location wherever they were, either Brooklyn in Manhattan, and then 415 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: they came down to the site and were able to 416 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: locate the phone. And that was about ten a quarter 417 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: after ten. This is the after we had been in 418 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: there with the bloodhounds and me giving them Camina's clothes 419 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: that you were that day, her bedsheets, her pillowcations, and 420 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: they let the canine smell it, and we left my 421 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: house house and the dogs basically they asked me to 422 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: show them where she would have gone in because it's 423 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: such a large park. So I took them to that 424 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: area and the dogs basically walked in the circle and 425 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: they walked back to my house. And that was it. 426 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: That the dogs had helped didn't help at all in 427 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: finding her. So I'm trying to figure out what that means. 428 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: But when that happened, what did you do? Where were 429 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: you doing this? I was with them. They needed me 430 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: to link them on the trail because it was a 431 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: dog that we had no light, and I knew the 432 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: trail like the back of my hand. So I would 433 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: take them on the trail that we would run on. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, 434 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining all of this happening. It didn't even 435 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: feel real. Did you think that any minute she was 436 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: going to come in the front door? Dad, I just 437 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: got a ride with so and seven. We went to 438 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: the convenience store on back. What's why? Why is there 439 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: a helicopter ever head? That was an outside at I mean, 440 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: the back of your mind, did you think that was 441 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: going to happen? In the back of my mind, I 442 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: was hoping that. But I knew something was wrong. I 443 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: knew that my baby was somewhere where she could not 444 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: answer me. Yeah, I knew at that point, I knew. 445 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: But when I left the house at six thirty, I 446 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: knew something was wrong. I knew. Don't ask me how, 447 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: but intuition. We were so close, Like Tony said, I 448 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: knew she was in danger. And as we were doing this, 449 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: they got a call from a police officer who said 450 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: we had located the phone, and I said where, And 451 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,479 Speaker 1: they told me the location and I said that's not 452 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: good because it was further down on the trail where 453 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: we never ran. It was further into the weeds. So 454 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: I said, let's go and I started booking. I was moving, 455 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: I was practically running, and I had maybe six seven 456 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: police officers. My friend was with me, and the doors 457 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: who were with me, and I was going to that location. 458 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: Now I got to the location, there was one cop 459 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: standing on the trail looking into the weeds, and I said, 460 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: where is the phone? And he said it's in there, 461 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: and he pointed inside about fifty feet. He said to me, 462 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: but you can't go near it, you can't look at it. 463 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: You have to stay here. And I said, okay. So 464 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: then I started to walk the trail. I started to 465 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: walk further into the trail towards the Brooklyn and I 466 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: made it about fifty feet and that's when something told me, no, 467 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: not here, And I turned around and I started to 468 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: walk in the ship direction, passed where the phone was, 469 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: passed towards where we lived, and again something just told 470 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: me stopped and I stopped, and I looked, and I 471 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: just I saw one weed that was bent in the 472 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: opposite direction, and I just walked in. I just walked 473 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: in by myself. My friend another fireman was behind me, 474 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: and I walked exactly directly to where she was laying. 475 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: And that's when you know she was calling me, she 476 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: needs her daddy to find her. And that's how I 477 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: found her, just like that, still the Toronto. When you 478 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: say she was calling, yes, she needed her dad to 479 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: find her, she did. What do you mean by that? 480 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: That was the last act that I could do for 481 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: her because she needed to be found, number one, and 482 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: she needed me to find her. Even though it was 483 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: a horrible, horrible sight that I'll never forget. She needed 484 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: her daddy to find her, and I did. I keep 485 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: coming back to something you told me a long time ago. 486 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: You told me you felt you heard her call you. 487 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: What did you hear? What? What was that? It was 488 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: just something in my mind that said, no, stop here, 489 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: And you know, because there was a right side of 490 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: the trail and the left side of the trail, and 491 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: we had no idea where she was. But I just 492 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: stopped look into the right side of the trail and 493 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: that's when my mind, or corina, but something said come 494 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: in and that's when I went. She was telling me 495 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: to go this way, and I walked. It was probably 496 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: thirty feet off the trail in the thick, ten foot 497 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: high weeds that you know, police, everybody had passed passed, 498 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: and I just walked right in directly to where she was. 499 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: You know, when my fiancee was murdered, I did not 500 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: want to see his body at all. I just couldn't 501 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: do that at that time in my life. And I 502 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: remember at the funeral home, it was just before his service. 503 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: I was standing out in a greeting area and I 504 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: glanced in and I saw it, just a sliver of 505 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: Keith's face above his coffin, and feel in my youth, 506 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: I passed out. I completely passed out with a shock 507 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: of seeing that, and I'll never forget it. I can't 508 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: stand to this day to smell a carnation, you know, 509 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: those heavily scented carnations they always have at funerals. That 510 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: when I came back to, that was a smell that 511 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: I smelled until this day. When I smelled carnations, I 512 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: physically feel sick. I feel like I'm going to throw up. 513 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: And I remember when my dad passed away, which I 514 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: told you about, Everybody left the room and said, I'm 515 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: not leaving him in here. I'm staying with him until 516 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: we get him where he's supposed to be And it 517 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: hurts me to think by seeing them change the sheets 518 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: out from under him and kind of fold his body 519 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: up and put it on a guarnee. And I walked 520 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: it to the elevator, and I remember her in the 521 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: hospital hall. Everybody took their hats off and stood there. 522 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: And I hate to even think back on that moment 523 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 1: because I don't want to remember that. I don't know 524 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 1: how you stand it. I just when you walked into 525 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: that area and you saw her lying there, what did 526 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: you think, maybe she's still alive. What did you think? Well, 527 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: you know you could listen to the police officer that 528 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: was still on the trail. I made a sound. A 529 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: sound came out of me that is undescribable. It wasn't 530 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: a scream. It was more of a well of pure anguish, 531 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: pure pain. And I've never made that sound before, and 532 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: I've never made that sound after. It just came out 533 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: of me. And my first reaction was I have to 534 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 1: take a home. So I picked her up, and being 535 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: at the cop had heard that scream, they started to 536 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: run into the weeds. So I had her in my 537 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: arms and I was starting to take her out of there, 538 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: and they said, sir, this is a crime scene. You 539 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: have to put her down, And I said, no, I 540 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: have to take a home, and they basically dragged me 541 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: off of her, and I put her down the same 542 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: way I found her. And I only remember if they 543 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: dragged me out onto the trail, if I walked myself, 544 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: that's a complete blur. But next thing I know, I'm 545 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 1: on the trail and all now, all of these cops 546 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: are starting to go in there. They're they're coming over 547 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: to me, and you know, I kept saying, we got 548 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: to get her out of there. We got to get 549 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: her out of there. You know, now I know better 550 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: that you know it was a crime scene. I had 551 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,959 Speaker 1: to wait for the forensic teams. You know how it works. 552 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: But I didn't know that. I just thought we had 553 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: to you know, we had to get him out of 554 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: there into some kind of safe argument, not in we 555 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: bug infested where she was. You know, I still wanted 556 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: to protect her. Still, you are bringing back a memory 557 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: to me. I don't know that I've ever shared it 558 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: with anybody. After Keith was murdered, it was, you know, 559 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: hours later I was at home with my mom and dad. 560 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: Everything was like a blur. And if somebody were to 561 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: say that on the stand, I'd tear them up about 562 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: not being able to remember. But the truth is it 563 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: was like a blur, and I remember feeling not like 564 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: a human. I felt like an animal, and I just 565 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: all I wanted to do was just go outside and 566 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: how and well, yes, I couldn't not cry, not say 567 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: a word. It was just I can't. I can't really 568 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: describe that feeling in in people talk in regular words. 569 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: It was not even human. The pain was just the shot, 570 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: and the pain was just too much. I understand exactly 571 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: because from that point on the rest of that night, 572 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: entire night, I was just like a zombie. I was 573 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: I was standing, I was breathing, I was seeing, but 574 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: it was all mechanical. Uh, Like I was a zombie 575 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: and I had no control over my bodily functions. You know, 576 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: my mind. I was just standing there like it was 577 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: a mannequin that happened to be alive. You know, I 578 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: couldn't even comprehend. I guess my mind was protecting my 579 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: body because if I would have really realized what had 580 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: just happened, I might have just died right then and there. 581 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: But my mind was protecting my body from just dying 582 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: and collapsing right there, Nancy Grace signing up Good Dying