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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, 28 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard 31 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more 32 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit 33 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for a 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks 37 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: so much for joining me for session on one seventy 38 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: three of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Last week, 39 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: we talked about some of the incredible benefits we experienced 40 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: from being connected to nature, and you heard a little 41 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: about how this connection has often been damaged in our 42 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: community for lots of different reasons. So today we'll be 43 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: chatting more about that, the ways the Black community has 44 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: been disconnected from nature and the impact it has. For 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: this conversation, I was joined by j Phoenix Smith M 46 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: s W. Who is a certified eco therapist, initiated elder 47 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: in the Afro Cuban Lokumi Arisha tradition, and a public 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: health leader in Oakland, California. She has been practicing and 49 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: teaching eco therapy since two thousand eleven and has been 50 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: featured in the Atlantic Magazine and other publications. As a 51 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: Black queer eco feminist, she weaves a study, knowledge and 52 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: practice of indigenous technology of the Arisha, Western ecopsychology, and 53 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: ecotherapy with over twenty five years of work in public 54 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: health and social work. She's the founder of Eco Soul, 55 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: where she consults with health care providers and nonprofits to 56 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: teach and encourage the integration of nature based practices for 57 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 1: healing diverse communities. Phoenix and I chatted about her practice 58 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: of liberation ecotherapy, how she combines all of her experiences 59 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: in working with clients, how the trauma to the land 60 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: shows up in our experiences, and of course she shares 61 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: some of her favorite resources. If you want to dig 62 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: in more, If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag 64 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: much for joining us today, Phoenix. Thank you. I am 66 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: very happy and grateful to be here. Yeah, I am 67 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: just so excited to dig into this topic with you. 68 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: So you identify yourself as a queer eco therapist spiritual 69 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: teacher whose work is grounded in liberation ecotherapy as a 70 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: form of healing that is rooted in intersectionality. I don't 71 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: think I've ever read a more powerful identifying statement. So 72 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: can you tell us exactly what all of that means? Oh? Yes, 73 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much. What does that mean? Well, that 74 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: means for me that I have been on a path 75 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: of healing myself since I started going to psychotherapy when 76 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: I was twenty two years old. I'm fifty two years 77 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: old now and and on my path, I have been 78 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: blessed with several things. One, I've always had really great 79 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: black therapist too. I've always used holistic healing as part 80 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: of my healing, not just traditional Western psychotherapy, but I 81 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: have used massage for somatic healing. Raikie. I'm an avid 82 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: meditator and have gone to several silent meditation retreats, and 83 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: about twelve years ago, I was initiated Afro Cuban lucumi 84 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: Arisia tradition. So I've been practicing and studying as an 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: initiated priest and healer in a community for over a 86 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: decade and my professional career as a social worker. I 87 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: got my master's in social work at Howard University. I 88 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 1: have worked in the field of public health for twenty 89 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: five years. So I've been an advocate in health and 90 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: in public health and wellness for black people, queer people, 91 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: communities of color for a long long time. So I've 92 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: been a will to bring my whole self to my 93 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: work and learn a lot. What are some of the 94 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: things that it takes to really liberate myself from my 95 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: own traumas that I've experienced and to bring healing not 96 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: just on the individual level, but on the policy level 97 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: and community level for our communities. Love it. So can 98 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: you dive more into the liberation ecotherapy? What does that 99 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: mean and what does that look like? Ecotherapy? The term 100 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: was coined by a pastoral counselor in the nineties named 101 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: Howard klein Bell, and he was a licensed therapist, but 102 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: he also focused on counseling people within the Christian Church. 103 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: So he started to notice how when he would work 104 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: with his communities, either individuals or couples, and he would 105 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: integrate nature into their sessions. Their sessions would be outside 106 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: in nature. He would bring plants that he noticed a 107 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: different level of healing that they would have in the session. Also, 108 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: he was very environmentally conscious and he wanted to clued 109 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: the fact that if the Earth is traumatized and has 110 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: been wounded, we are intimately connected to the earth. Our 111 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: bodies are the Earth. We live on the earth and 112 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: with the earth, and our healing needs to be connected 113 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: to that. So that's where ecotherapy comes from apology, which 114 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: is a form of psychology that looks at our psyche 115 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: and how it's connected to nature. Out Here on the 116 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: West Coast in San Francisco in the ninety nineties, a 117 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: group of psychologists got together and they created this branch 118 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: of eco psychology. However, for me, what I have found 119 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: I'm one of the few black ecotherapists in the country, 120 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: is that a lot of the theory and practice of 121 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: eco psychology. Although it's very rooted in connecting with nature 122 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: and environmentalism, it was sorely lacking the intersectional lens of 123 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: racial justice and social justice. And I think that was 124 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: mainly because the people that were bringing forth this type 125 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: of healing were of European ancestry. And so for me, 126 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: liberation is that if black people are not valued, if 127 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: black people and indigenous people do not have social justice 128 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: and healing and racial justice, then there's no way that 129 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: we can ever get to a point of having environmental 130 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: justice and healing with nature that the earth can be healed. 131 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: Is that our healing is incidanutally intimately tied to the 132 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: healing of the earth. And as people of the earth, 133 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: black people and indigenous people, we have strong ancestral connections 134 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: to the land that have been severed, that have been traumatized, 135 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: and that we must talk about this healing and frame 136 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: it not just around connecting to the earth so that 137 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: we feel better or that we push forth environmentalism, but 138 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: that healing of the people and nature and plants in 139 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: the water, it's all connected for our liberation. Because we're 140 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: living in an age right now of extreme climate change, 141 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: we can have all the therapy we want in the world, 142 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: all the healing motalities, if we are not connecting that 143 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: to the liberation of people and the liberation of the earth, 144 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: and we're really just I'm not going to get to 145 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: a place of holness. So that's why I came up 146 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: with the term liberation ecotherapy, and that it should be 147 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: rooted also in racial justice and social justice for people 148 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: all over the world. Okay, Phoenix, So you tell me 149 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: if I'm off base with this, But from what you're seeing, 150 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: it sounds like you know, and of course we know 151 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: that we are connected to the earth. There is continuing 152 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: spikes in racism, continuing increases in racial injustice, and we 153 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: also see that there continue to be all these natural disasters, 154 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: right and all of the ways in which it feels 155 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: like every week there's a new phenomenon we hear about, 156 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: like murder hornets, and you know, we know about what's 157 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: happening with the ice casts and those kinds of things. 158 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: So is it a fair connection to talk about the 159 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: ways in which black Indigenous people have been mistreated and 160 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: that is showing up in nature. It is fair to 161 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: say that in many leading eco psychologists, psychologists ecotherapists. We 162 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: speak of that all the time, that what happens to 163 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: the earth is happening to our bodies. I mean, we 164 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: can look at the issue of flint. They still don't 165 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: have clean water. They still don't have clean water. Like 166 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: for example, I live in Oakland, and I want to 167 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: acknowledge the native community whose land I live on. I 168 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: live here on the land of the ALONEI people from Oakland, 169 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: and also the post me what people of the Bay Area. 170 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 1: I think it's important to acknowledge the indigenous people whose 171 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: land that we live on now. And I have to say, 172 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm a transplant to California. I grew up in Texas, 173 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: San Antonio, Texas, and then I went to graduate school 174 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: in d C. At Howard University, and I've lived here 175 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: for twenty years. But prior to that, I didn't really 176 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: have a consciousness around Indigenous people as far as really 177 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: acknowledging them in my life around whose land I lived on. 178 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: Nor did I really have a consciousness around environmentalism. I 179 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: did not grow up camping or hiking or fishing or 180 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: anything like that. This came to me later as an adult, 181 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: and so I say that it's important to acknowledge whose 182 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: land we're on, because today in Oakland, the lonely people, 183 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: the Miwak people, they also suffer from some of the 184 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: greatest rates of health issues, chronic health issues, of poverty, 185 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: of police violence, and this is directly connected to the 186 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: genocide that took place and is still taking place in 187 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: many cases to their communities all over North America. And 188 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: also in addition to that, there is a beautiful community 189 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: of Native women in Oakland that are reclaiming the land 190 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: here in Oakland and working with communities to get pieces 191 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: of their land back for healing for themselves and their community. 192 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: And I'm very inspired by their work. And ecotherapy is 193 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: rooted in Indigenous healing. This is nothing new, right, I 194 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that Indigenous communities have connected with nature 195 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: for healing since the beginning of time. But Western psychologists, 196 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: mainly European psychologists, have started to coin these terms equal 197 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: psychology and ecotherapy, you know, fairly recently late eighties, early nineties, 198 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: to create a practice and to bring more awareness to 199 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: how our mental and emotional and physical healing is directly 200 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: connected to nature. So yes, what we see, what is 201 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: happening to the water, to the plants, the same levels 202 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: of trauma, types of trauma are also happening to black people, 203 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: to indigenous people, to pour people around the world. So 204 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: we need to begin to think about not just politically, 205 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: but our healing of time those together and that when 206 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: we connect more with nature. For me, it's not just 207 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: about us feeling good, but which is an important part 208 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: of being able to find some peace and some healing. 209 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: But also when we're finding this peace and healing and 210 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: connecting in nature, hopefully it is raising our own awareness 211 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: around our environmental activism and what we can do to 212 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: get more involved in making sure that we're advocating for 213 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: the earth and for the waters where we live. Got it, 214 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: And so I'm curious to hear from you, Phoenix, if 215 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: you think that that is a part of why so 216 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: many of us have turned to plants right now. Right 217 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: so we know that we are living through one of 218 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: the most traumatic, if not the most traumatic experience in 219 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: many of our lives, and we see an abundance of 220 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: people talking about plants, so it feels like there is 221 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: some connection and trying to kind of reconnect with nature 222 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: in that way. There's definitely a connection, and I actually 223 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: find with younger people in their thirties and twenties, they're 224 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: wide open for this kind of healing. All over social media, 225 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: we have black girls with gardens during this shelter in 226 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: Place time. The number of people that are buying art 227 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: and equipment and plants has increased during shelter in Place 228 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: because now we're at home, we can't really go anywhere. 229 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: What can we do though? We could connect with nature 230 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: plants in our home and being outside when we're wearing 231 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: masks and socially distancing, it's safer for our health right 232 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: than being indoors. So now we have a huge consciousness 233 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: of raising of people really understanding more and wanting to 234 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: connect more with plants. I also want to say that 235 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: there's also scientific research right that this is not just 236 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: about we feel good. We know that this makes us 237 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: feel good. Our parents, my great aunt Ruby, who's an 238 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: ancestor now, was the person that took care of the 239 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: garden and our family. The family all lived into generationally 240 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: close together, and she was the person that took care 241 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: of the garden. I had her story. In addition, I 242 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: learned about five years ago that my paternal grandfather, during depression, 243 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: he worked with the federal government was hiring a lot 244 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: of men to give them jobs during the depression to 245 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: help build national parks. So my great grandfather, Charles Smith 246 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: was one of those men that got a job helping 247 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: to build national parks. So this is also part of 248 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: my family history and my family lineage. And also science 249 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: says that a couple of things happened. Stanford researchers did 250 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: a study where they looked at people's experience with urban 251 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: nature where they're in a crowded city environment and they're walking, 252 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: compared to nature, and they found that people experience less 253 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: stressed their blood pressure went down. I mean, these are 254 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: things that we know intuitively, but there's people that are 255 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: doing a lot of research right now. Also two back 256 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: up and show that nature is not just good for 257 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: us because you know we live her on earth, but 258 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: that it's really important for our health, for our mental health, 259 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: for our spiritual health, and our psychological health. And so 260 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: this is also rooted in science. There have been scientists 261 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: in Australia that have done research that shows that plants 262 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: have feelings and can communicate with us, right and so 263 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: plants are not just sort of something that we take 264 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: care with their living beings that we can build relationship 265 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: with and you can see when you talk to your plants, 266 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: you can see how the leaves make it brighter. But 267 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: it also helps us develop a sense of ourselves. I 268 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: also want to see people who have experienced trauma. Many 269 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: of us have experienced trauma. Have found that sometimes it's 270 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: very hard to connect relationally with humans right they're still 271 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: living in the fight or flight mode where they get 272 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: frozen from their trauma. That sometimes it's easier for them 273 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: to relate to the nats your world, to a particular 274 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: place in nature, to specific plants. And I want to 275 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: bring in animals as well, because animal healing is part 276 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: of ecotherapy. Animal assisted therapy. We see some people that 277 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: are in prison they have worked with dogs and have 278 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: been able to experience healing working with dogs. Equine therapy 279 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: is where you work with horses and courses are very 280 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: emotional animals and can really help people that have suffered 281 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: and sense trauma to learn how to trust again and 282 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: to learn how to access their emotions and their feelings. 283 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: It has many, many benefits of connecting with nature, and 284 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: it's not just one thing. It's not just working with plants. 285 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: It can also be working with animals, it could also 286 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: be doing nature based therapies and nature based activities. There's 287 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: a variety of ways that connecting with nature really helps 288 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: our mental and spiritual health. As you were talking Phoenix 289 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: about like working with dogs and working with horses, I 290 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: am also reminded how many Black people specifically often have 291 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: traumatic experiences with dogs and how many of us even 292 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: have access to horses. So if it also feels like 293 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: there's some history there of like the things that would 294 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: be healing for us, us not actually having access to 295 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: most Definitely access is a huge issue. There was a 296 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: study that came out recently. They talked about how people 297 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: of color, black and brown people, we have less access 298 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: to green spaces. Right, we have less access to beautiful 299 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: green spaces our neighborhoods. We tend to live in neighborhoods 300 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: that have higher levels of environmental toxins. The percentage of 301 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: black and brown people that visit national parks is very low. 302 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: Although there are many groups now that are working to 303 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: uh bring war awareness to the Black community around going 304 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: to national parks. There's Outdoor Afro, There's Latino Outdoors. There's 305 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: many groups that are really helping to open up that space, 306 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: but still the percentage is very low. So access is 307 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: a huge issue. But what I say is nature is 308 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: not just going to a national park. Nature is working 309 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: with plants. If you have plants in your apartment, growing 310 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: your own food. You can grow food in your own apartment. 311 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: Nature is also connecting in if you have access to 312 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: animals for healing. Right, Nature is also being outside connecting 313 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: with people. It looks many different ways, but access is 314 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: a huge issue, which wise also a social justice issue. 315 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: It's not so easy to say, okay, just go outside 316 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: nature and you can experience healing if you don't have 317 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: access to it, if you don't have a car, how 318 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: is that going to work. So that there are communities 319 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: that are working to increase access for people of color 320 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: to nature, but I encourage people to start where they are, 321 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: And I also see ecotherapy as a practice that is 322 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: best done in community. One of the things that we 323 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: found is that we suffer so much isolation, and even 324 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: more so now during shelter in place, we can't necessarily 325 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: get together in person. But gardens and gardening is an 326 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: essential service. Right now, you can still go to gardens, 327 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: right You can still go to your urban garden right now. 328 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: You might not be able to go to a restaurant, 329 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: but during shelter in place, urban gardens are open and 330 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: so you can still go spend some time there if 331 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: you don't have your own gardens, or if you want 332 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 1: to start growing your own food. So it's essential, just 333 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: like it's an essential service, it's essential for us to 334 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: find ways to connect with nature that's accessible to us. Yeah, 335 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: do you have other suggestions we've already talked about, like 336 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: people kind of buying plants and stuff like that and 337 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: going to gardens, or there are other suggestions you have 338 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: for how people can reclaim their connection to the land. 339 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: A couple of things. One I think exploring your family history, 340 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: your ancestors. We all have ancestors and living relatives elders 341 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: that had some connection to the land in some way. 342 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: I think the stories are important. In ecotherapy, we use 343 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: the term earth story where we ask people to talk 344 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: about themselves in the context of their earth story. What 345 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: relatives in your family grew food or had gardens. So 346 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: that's one way to just start to open up your 347 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: own mind, body, and spirit to your own history that 348 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: lives within you around connecting to nature. I would also 349 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: recommend looking online for outdoor nature groups. There is so 350 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: many more outdoor nature groups for black people, for black women, 351 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: for Latino people, for queer people that you can find 352 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: online that are still doing hikes out in nature, their 353 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: socially distanced, and people are wearing maths. I also suggest 354 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,959 Speaker 1: because we're inside a lot. As I mentioned on social 355 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: media on i G there are so many black women 356 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: plant groups. Connect with sisters, connect with the brothers online 357 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: and you will get lots of suggestions on how to begin. Also, 358 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: I suggest connecting where you are and finding out where 359 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: are there places near you that you haven't explored that 360 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: perhaps you can go take a walk, or sit by 361 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: the river or sit by the water, like, really explore 362 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: where you live and start looking at where are places 363 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: that maybe you have never even thought about that you 364 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: could go and begin taking a walk every day. So 365 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: there are many different ways that are via the internet 366 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: socially where you can connect with other people and get 367 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: ideas becoming more intimate with the place where you live 368 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: and doing that research to find out where are those 369 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: places where perhaps you could go fish, or you could 370 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: go park hike, or you could just sit in the park. 371 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: So Phoenix, as you were talking, I am really pulled 372 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: in by this idea of an earth story. That's not 373 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: a term I've ever heard, but it sounds like it 374 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: would be like an incredibly powerful practice. But I'm also 375 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: thinking about, like for our ancestors, so much of our history, 376 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: at least here in the US, is like people's connection 377 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: to being on plantations and like farming unwilfully the land. 378 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: So I'm curious, like what kind of role that please 379 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: in our earth story because that I think is a 380 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: traumatic experience. Oh, it's definitely a traumatic experience. It's the 381 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: same thing for people of Latino descent. I'm in California. 382 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: We still have Mexican farm workers right now. That that's 383 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: how we all are getting all our fruits and vegetables 384 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: right now, is the Mexican farm workers that in the 385 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: middle of COVID are still out there working the land. 386 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: So of course, I think it's important for us to 387 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: honor our ancestors and honor their sacrifices and the efforts 388 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: they made in working the land. And at the same time, 389 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: they also found ways to survive through the land. So 390 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: we need to make sure that when we're looking at 391 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: ancestral healing and our ancestral stories. We talk a lot 392 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: about the intergenerational trauma, right, the trauma that's passed down 393 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: from generation to generation. So if you had ancestors, many 394 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: of us who Black Americans of African descent, had ancestors 395 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: that were enslaved. I grew up in Texas that were 396 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: share croppers, that experienced a lot of trauma. That is 397 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: an important part of our story. However, I also want 398 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: to say that's not all of our story, that's not 399 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: our full story, and that they're also like my aunt Ruby, 400 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: who tended the garden so that my family could eat. 401 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: There weren't any grocery stores for them to go to. 402 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: There wasn't a safe way or Kroger for them to 403 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: go to. They grew the food that they needed. My mother, 404 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: who recently passed, would tell me stories around how she 405 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: would spend time in the garden, how she loved to 406 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: climb trees as a little girl. So I think there's 407 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: a balance there. It's not negating that there's that traumatic history. 408 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: And mind you that there's still our incidences. Remember the 409 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: brother in New York work in the Central Park birding, 410 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: you know, was birden was going to look at beautiful 411 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: birds and the white woman, you know, calls the police 412 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: on him. That's still happening today, right, So I don't 413 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: want to the gate that it's not always safe for us, 414 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: but I think it's important for us to remember that 415 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: it's not just the wounds that we care. We also 416 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: carry the gifts of our ancestors, and I think it's 417 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: important for us to remember that so we don't just 418 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: get stuck in the trauma of what happened to our 419 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: ancestors on the land. I think that's very important. Thank 420 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: you so much for that, Phoenix. I appreciate you sharing that. 421 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: And as you were talking, I'm also thinking, you know, 422 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: in our efforts to reconnect with nature, I think it 423 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: also feels like there's this weird tension of like commodification 424 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: and capitalism that feels, you know, like, yes, people are 425 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: excited and wanting to reconnect, but is there a way 426 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: to do that where we are not com modifying you know, 427 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: like native rituals, and you know, really in some ways 428 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: acting further increasing like the imbalance between us in nature. Oh, 429 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked that question. How I want 430 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: to answer that is one my perspective on ecotherapy and 431 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: how I practice. It's really rooted in social justice, and 432 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: I really stressed that in that ecotherapy, connecting with nature 433 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: is not about buying more things to make us happy. 434 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: It's actually trying to help us disconnect from that capitalist 435 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: mindset right and connecting with the natural world. The reason 436 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: why I mentioned the indigenous community on the lands where 437 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: I live is to respect them and honor that many 438 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: of these things that I'm talking about Native Americans, they 439 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: haven't rooted in their philosophy of life. We honor them 440 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: by recognizing them. We don't want to encourage anyone to 441 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: try to recreate Native American rituals. I myself am initiated 442 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: in an African tradition, so I don't have to do that. 443 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: I have my own rituals that I have been taught 444 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: by my elders and a reach a traditions that connects 445 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: me directly to my ancestors that I am responsible to 446 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: and for. Because I'm part of a lineage, I have 447 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: elders that teach me, and I have students that I teach, 448 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: and so I don't have to recreate any rituals that 449 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: are not connected to my ancestors. We all have ancestors, 450 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: whether we're of European descent, Asian descent. There's no need 451 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: for us to recreate or try to take someone else's culture. 452 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: If you explore your own ancestral lineage, you can find 453 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: those things. I think it's very important to say that. 454 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: I also want to say that ecotherapy does not take 455 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: the place of traditional psychotherapy. It's something that can be 456 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: practiced and complement to traditional psychotherapy, and it's low cost. 457 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't cost a lot of money to practice nature therapy. 458 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: It's really to enhance our healing, our mind and body, 459 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: spiritual healing. You know, that is how I see and 460 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: how I practice and how I teach ecotherapy. Phoenix, Can 461 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: you talk more about how your Aresia spiritual traditions informed 462 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: maybe your practice in working with clients? Oh? Sure, so 463 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: a couple of things. So like my environmental consciousness really 464 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: started to grow when I started to practice their reach 465 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: a tradition because you know, there's a power in naming something, 466 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: so for me, in the Aricia tradition, the river fresh 467 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: Water is known as the goddess Ocean jon is a 468 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: is a goddess that's associated with healing, that's associated with 469 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: feminine power, that's associated literally with our blood. The rivers 470 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: around the world are like the veins of the earth. 471 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: So O'shan is associated with childbirth, with relationships of community. 472 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: So when I had a name for a river and 473 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: I the river wasn't just the river. To me, it 474 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: wasn't an inanimate thing. It had my life and the spirit. 475 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: It gave me a whole different perspective on how I 476 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: treated water. Right. So for me, my spiritual tradition has 477 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: given me names for places in nature. The ocean is 478 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: identified with the Erisha yema Ya, who's the arisha of 479 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: family and of children and of childbirth and many other things. 480 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: The mountains are associated with the Erisha Obatala, who's associated 481 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: with good character and strength and having integrity in life. 482 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: So my whole way of looking at the world and 483 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: looking at how I am connected to nature changed when 484 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: I began to practice this spiritual tradition. Because now for me, 485 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: the river is ocean. I love ocean, So I want 486 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: to make sure that I don't throw trash in ocean. 487 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I'm aware of where 488 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: even my fresh water I'm from. I know it doesn't 489 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: just come from this attack when I turn it on 490 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: here in my house. I'm a more aware of the 491 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: sacredness of water and the sacredness of the earth because 492 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: I am also part of that as well. That's one 493 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: of the main ways that my spiritual tradition has enhanced 494 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: my ability to connect with nature because it's part of 495 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: who I am. There is no disconnect for me. I 496 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: go and talk to the water. I sit by the water, 497 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: and I commune with the water, and I find healing 498 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: and in Christianity, right, you know, we have so many 499 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: spirituals wade in the water, so it wasn't something that 500 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: was too foreign for me. I was able to easily 501 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: connect in with it once I had more of a 502 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: framework and a context for what water really means and 503 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: is in my life. How do you share these kinds 504 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: of things in practice, Like with clients who might come 505 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: to you, are you introducing them to these concepts? Like 506 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: what does that look like? One thing about me is 507 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: that I have a background of public health, and I've 508 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: worked in public health for twenty five years, so I 509 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: I come from that perspective when I teach, and I 510 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: do presentation sens or workshops, and I teach a lot 511 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: of therapists because a lot of therapists are interested in Okay, 512 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: how does this work? How can I do this? I 513 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: first come sort of with evidence based research, and there's 514 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot out there now showing how deepening our connection 515 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: to nature is good for our health in many different ways. 516 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: So I come from a public health perspective, right, And 517 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: then when I talk about eco spirituality, I will not 518 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: only bring up Native American spirituality, but I share people 519 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: know in my life and my public health work, my 520 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: eco therapy work, that I'm also an initiated priest. So 521 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: I share basic concepts of a reachar tradition. Not to 522 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: get people, you know, we don't proselytize in the reachar tradition. 523 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: It's not to get people to practice, but to just 524 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: show people, hey, there's a framework here that black and 525 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: people of color from all over the world have been 526 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: practiced this tradition. That is something that you can learn 527 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: even if you don't want to practice the tradition. Anybody 528 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: can go to the river and pray to ocean and 529 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: it might help them have a deeper connection. But I 530 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: really come from a public health perspective. That's where I 531 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: start when I when I talk about ecotherapy and what 532 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: eco therapy is, so that people can have you know 533 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: the basic framework of what this field is before I 534 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: move into eco spirituality in the Aresa. Okay, So a 535 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: lot of your work is more in terms of training 536 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: therapists how to then do some of this work with 537 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: their clients, right right, So I do. I do a 538 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: lot of training with therapists, but also people that are 539 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: not licensed therapists, but people that work with youth. A 540 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: lot of youth workers coaches, people that may have already 541 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: been doing some kind of national work but didn't really 542 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: they didn't call it eco therapy, and so they're interested 543 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: in how how this can work for their practice and 544 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: work with their community. When I work with individuals one 545 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: on one, most of the time they come to me 546 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: for spiritual healing. So they come to me as they 547 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: know that I'm gonna reach the priest. And I also 548 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm a part of a healing collective here in Oakland 549 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: called the Healing Clinic Collective. For the past five or 550 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: so years, we do these pop up clinics in different 551 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: parts of the East Bay where we offer holistic healing 552 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: for free to the community. So there'll be acupuncturists, massage therapists, 553 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: that dat us which are healers indigenous healers that are 554 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: trained in Latin American virtuality and Native healing and arecia 555 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: people like me. So I'm also part of a collective 556 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: where I offer spiritual healing through the a Recia traditions. 557 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: So when people come to me one on one, most 558 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,479 Speaker 1: of the time they come to me because they know 559 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: that I'm gonna reach a priest. When people ask me 560 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: to do ecotherapy work, they know that I've been practicing 561 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: and writing and teaching and training people for many years 562 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: around ecotherapy and they're curious um about how that works 563 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: intersects with my public health work. So, Phoenix, what kinds 564 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: of things are you currently growing in your garden? It's 565 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: interesting you say that I'm actually working with the local 566 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: organization that I love, and I want to put a 567 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: plug out to them. They're here in Oakland called Planting Justice, 568 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: and they hire people that are coming out of incarceration 569 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: and they teach them permaculture and landscaping skills and they 570 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: also build gardens for people. So they're coming to my house. 571 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: I just bought a house last year and they in 572 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: a few weeks and they are gonna help me build 573 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: my own gardens. So some of the things that I'm growing. 574 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: Some herbs I'm growing are herbs for respiratory wellness and 575 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: healing herbs like ment herbs like loud war one. We're 576 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: in COVID right so I want to be able to 577 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: have herbs that I can make my own tea s. 578 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: So you all show people should think about that. We're 579 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: in the time of a pandemic where it's a respiratory illness. 580 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: Grow your own herbs so you can have herbs that 581 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: can help with respiratory illnesses. And I'll send you an 582 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: email with some of those herbs so people can know. 583 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: Because growing herbs is easy, you can do it in 584 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: your kitchen window sill so that you can have herbs 585 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: or your to strengthen your lungs. I'm also planting some 586 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: fruit trees. I'm growing kale collared sort of traditional vegetables 587 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: of my ancestors. And because I'm in the Bay Area, 588 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate. I mean, we can grow anything year round. 589 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: We have really this Mediterranean type of climate. So those 590 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: are some of the things that I'm growing, but definitely 591 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: herbs for respiratory wellness right now are very very very 592 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: important for us. Also, like me, I live in a 593 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: part of Oakland called East Oakland that has high rates 594 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: of environmental toxins. So for me, it's important that I'm 595 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: taking herbs and supplements to strengthen my lungs because even 596 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: without COVID, the air is not good. So this is 597 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: a way for us as black people to take control 598 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: of our own health. In addition to going to license 599 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: therapists and doctors, if you have access to insurance, is 600 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: to grow your own herbs for healing respiratory herbs that 601 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: are very easy to grow to strengthen your lungs. So 602 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: do you have any books or websites that you can 603 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: share for people who maybe want to do a little 604 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 1: bit more research on some of the things you've talked about. Sure, 605 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: a couple of things like two is you know, I'm 606 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: on a mission to get more black eco therapists. It 607 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: should not just be me and two other people. This 608 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: field is growing tremendously feature and health from ten years 609 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: ago to today. You will see so many articles where 610 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: doctors are prescribing part prescriptions. So it's an opportunity for 611 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: more black people to get involved in eco therapy. But 612 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: what that means, though, Dr Joy, that there are not 613 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: a lot of resources written by and for us. So 614 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that I am doing is I'm 615 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: creating a training program for people who want to become 616 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: eco therapists. Right now, we don't have a standard of practice. 617 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 1: Some people are licensed psychotherapists and they just add eco 618 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: therapy to their practice. But you don't have to be 619 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: a licensed psychotherapist, but you do need some training. So 620 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 1: I'm going to be creating an eco Therapy be certification 621 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: training where people will have some training so that they 622 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: can become ecotherapists and create ecotherapy projects in their community. 623 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: And I'll share that with you in the class notes. 624 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: A couple of books that I want to recommend. There's 625 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 1: one book called The Healing Wisdom of Africa by Molly 626 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: Domo Samee, who is a healer and a shaman and 627 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: a priest from Bikini Fassau in West Africa. It's one 628 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: of the most beautiful books I've ever read, where he 629 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: connects in how and his tribe and his community, how 630 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: healing is intimately connected to nature and using the different 631 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: elements in nature. There's the seminal text on eco therapy 632 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: that was actually written by one of my mentors, called 633 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 1: the intro to ecotherapy, healing with nature in mind. There's 634 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: a book by a reverend that created a book on 635 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: black environmental history, not necessarily on ecotherapy, but she has 636 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: great Diane Glade has great chapters on the history of 637 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: back women and gardens that goes back many generations. That 638 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: it is just the most beautiful, most beautiful history that 639 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,439 Speaker 1: I've ever read. So that people know, you know, miss 640 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: social media. We come from a long lineage of Black 641 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: women having gardens to feed our family. This is nothing new. 642 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: We now have social media where we can get the 643 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: word out. But in our culture, particularly Black women have 644 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: been growing and developing unique gardening practices for generations, for generations, 645 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: and so I think that's very important for people to 646 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: know as well. Those all sound very interesting. Thank you 647 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: so much for sharing that. And where can people find you? 648 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: How can people stay connected with you if they like 649 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: to get in contact or stay connected on social media, 650 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: so they can email me, you know my email address. 651 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: I also have a Facebook page on Equal Soul Eco 652 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: Therapy for help. And one thing I have to say 653 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: is that personally, I am trying to disconnect from social 654 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: media where I'm not on all the time because one 655 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: of the things we talked about in ecotherapy is the 656 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: negative impact of too much screen time. And we know 657 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: definitely how this impacts our children, and like it really 658 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: impacts our self esteem. It's a great tool to connect 659 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: with people, but I want you to get offline and 660 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: get outside. And you know, like for myself, specifically during 661 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: this time of racial unrest and and and the pandemic, 662 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: I've had to take I call them social media sabbaticals 663 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: where at least one day a week I'm not on 664 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: any social media for my own mental health. So you know, 665 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: I don't have an Instagram or Twitter. One of my 666 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: supporters will probably say, I'll do your Instagram for you, 667 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: because I just don't want to spend that much time 668 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 1: on social media. Is too much for my mental health. 669 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: But there are other ways for people to get in 670 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: touch with me perfect But we of course will include 671 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: all of those things in this show notes. Thank you 672 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: so much for being with us today, Phoenix, I really 673 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Oh, thank you so much for having me. 674 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Yeah. When we can, we like to 675 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: close the show with our press Pause moment. This is 676 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: an opportunity for our community to press pause and engage 677 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: in activity that they might find restorative or reflective in 678 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: some way. What's something you'd suggest to those who want 679 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: to maybe start planting something of their own. I ask 680 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: people to start with what do you need? What are 681 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: some of the things that you need. Do you have 682 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: high blood pressure? Look for herbs that can help reduce 683 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: high blood pressure. Do you have diabetes? Grow your own 684 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: medicine and start a relationship with that particular plant. And 685 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: it may seem foreign to someone. What do you mean 686 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: start a relationship with the plant? I mean, just like 687 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: you start a relationship with the person a friendship. You 688 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: talk to that person regularly, you nurture that relationship. Right, 689 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: you see that relationship, you remember that person. It's the 690 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: same concept. It's the same concept on building relationship with 691 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: plants and start with what you need for your body. 692 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,919 Speaker 1: It's so empowering when you grow your own food. It's 693 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: more empowering than money. I have to say the cash 694 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: to me. Ben Donna Shiva, who is an internationally known teacher, philosopher, 695 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: eco healer in India. She says, in nature, the currency 696 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: is life. It's not money, it's life. And so as 697 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: we see right now, you can have money, but you 698 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: can still get COVID and you can still die for COVID. 699 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: And we're seeing that being able to grow our own food, 700 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: we are seeing places that are don't have access to 701 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: some types of food because our food chain has been 702 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: disrupted by this pandemic. It's going to become more and 703 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: more important for us to start by building our relationship 704 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: with the land, by growing our own food. It's a 705 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: very very powerful thing. It also helps us to decolonize 706 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: our mind you know, we have heard so many stories 707 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,839 Speaker 1: where children don't know where food comes from. Where did 708 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: they think corn comes from? Well, how do they think 709 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: we get chicken? You know, it's really important for us 710 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: to understand that it's not a grocery store where our 711 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: food comes from. I live. Farm workers are out there 712 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 1: in sweltering heat right now picking grapes, picking ors, picking 713 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: fruit so that it can go to the grocery store, 714 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: and they're not getting extra pay for work to learn 715 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: the pandemic. So, you know, it's really important for us 716 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 1: to really open our minds where our food comes from 717 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 1: and start doing what we can by growing what our 718 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: body needs right now where we are. I'm still glad 719 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: Phoenix was able to share her expertise with us today 720 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: to learn more about her work or to register for 721 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: one of her upcoming workshops. Be sure as to visit 722 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com 723 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,839 Speaker 1: slash Session one seventy three. Don't forget to share your 724 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,240 Speaker 1: takeaways with us on social media using the hashtag tv 725 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: G in session, and please text two sisters in your 726 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: circle right now and encourage them to check out the 727 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: episode as well. If you're looking for a therapist in 728 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory 729 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And 730 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic and 731 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: connect with some other sisters in your area, come on 732 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where 733 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: we take a deeper dive into the topics from the 734 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,400 Speaker 1: podcast and just about everything else. You can join us 735 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. 736 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: Don't forget that if you're looking for a way to 737 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: end summer on a high note, Cricket Wireless has got 738 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: just the thing. Get ready for unlimited smiles, unlimited times 739 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: for your four lines of unlimited data for a hundred 740 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: dollars a month. Thank you all so much for joining 741 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continue in 742 00:43:51,160 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care, 743 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: the best, be the best wood