WEBVTT - #196 Jason Flom with Gary Drinkard 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.359 Dalton Pace was a large man who ran a junkyard 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.160 out of his home into Cater, Alabama. He was known 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.360 to carry large amounts of cash. On August nineteenth, nineteen 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:16.640 ninety three, after a brutal fight, someone shot Dalton Pace 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:22.360 and stole that cash. Meanwhile, thirty five miles away, Gary 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.800 Drinkerd's daughter and neighbors were delivering a litter of puppies 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.400 while Gary was there laid up on the couch with 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.040 a back injury on heavy pain meds, definitely in no 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.839 shape to fight anyone, let alone a man the size 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.519 of Dalton Pace. When Gary's half sister, Beverly Robinson and 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:44.200 her boyfriend Rex Segar were dealing with their own significant 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.200 legal troubles, they tried to trade a lleged information about 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:53.000 Dalton Pace's murder for leniency, claiming that Gary was the killer. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.680 To corroborate those false claims, Beverly wore a wire between 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.160 her legs while trying to coax them words out of Gary, 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:06.240 But whenever Gary denied involvement, Beverly would rub her thighs together, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.960 making his denials inaudible. Then the lead detective took it 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:16.920 upon himself to testify a trial about Gary's alleged taped confession. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.919 It took a literal dream team of lawyers to undo 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:25.559 those lies, including the great Brian Stevenson and our returning guest, 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:30.600 the eminent attorney Richard Jeffy. However, nothing will ever make 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.720 up for all that lost time Gary spent on death row. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:54.000 This this Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flopp. Welcome back to 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.560 Wrongful Conviction with Jason flamm That's me. I'm your host, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.920 and today I'm actually almost a little nervous because I've 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.400 not one, but two people who I just look up 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.359 to so much. One you'll recognize, Richard Jaffey, is one 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.720 of the most prolific and successful death penalty lawyers in 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.440 the country. Richard, Welcome back to Ronful Conviction. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:16.919 Thank you so much. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:17.360 Jaison. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.400 Great to be here, and with him is someone who 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.080 he speaks of in the Reverend tones, and he's not 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.000 the only one. His story will anger you, but his 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:31.360 spirit will inspire you. Gary Drinkard, Welcome to Wronful Conviction. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.120 Oh, thank you so much. It's wonderful to be here. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.720 Let's start at the beginning. First of all, Gary, did 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:38.720 you grow up in Alabama? 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.000 I did I've been all up in the north and 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.640 out west and everything. I always came back to Alabama. 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.080 For the most part. You know, until this insane fate 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.520 befel you, things were pretty good. Is that fair to say? Oh? 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.080 Yeah, everything was going great. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.440 I had just followed fourteen acres of land and enrolled 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.079 into college. We were fixing to build a dream home. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.240 And then bam, everything goes crazy. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.360 Yeah, and everything really did go crazy. And just to 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:13.639 set the stage, we're talking about the afternoon of August nineteenth, 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:18.320 nineteen ninety three, when the body of Dalton Pace was 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.639 found in his Decatur, Alabama home. He had been shot 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.839 twice in the back and once in the head. Now, 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.320 mister Pace ran a junk yard out of his home 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.600 and was known for carrying large rolls of cash. He 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.920 was a guy who didn't trust banks, so he was 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.720 a logical target for somebody, and all of the cash, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.000 except for the contents of his wallet, had been stolen. So, Richard, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.120 take us back to this crime, because what's going to 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.000 become clear as we go along is that it was 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.800 actually totally impossible for Gary to have committed this crime. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.680 But somehow or other, long before you even heard about 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.400 the case. He was convicted anyway and sentenced to death. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.680 This is really an extraordinary case because Gary was thirty 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:03.960 five miles away and when the authorities got there they 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:08.720 found a bottle of whiskey in a glass and they 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:13.960 didn't even fingerprint these two items. After a couple of weeks, 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:19.880 the investigation went nowhere, and suddenly Beverly Robinson, who happened 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.600 to be Gary's half sister, went to the police and 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:28.320 she said, I can help you find who killed Dalton Pace. 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.839 She said it's my half brother, Gary Drinkard and they said, well, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.920 you got any corroboration to that? They said, yeah, I'm 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:41.360 my boyfriend Rex Seegers, who I live with, and that's it. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:43.719 At which point they said you're going to have to 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.279 give us more than that. So they wired her up, 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.039 sent her over to Gary's home around six thirty or 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.479 so in the morning, sat there drinking coffee with Gary, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:05:00.040 wired up with Detective Gary Walker in a van, and 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.760 like you see on TV, down the street listening in 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.680 real time, Beverly Robinson had brought a newspaper of the 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.400 account and then started reading from the newspaper and asking 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.440 Gary questions about the crime, as if Gary might have 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.599 known something, and every time Gary answered the question, the 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.559 tap was not legible because, and we found this out later, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.680 Beverly's wire was between her legs and she would rub 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.360 her legs together every time. She would try to get 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.039 Gary to incriminate himself, and he never did. 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.240 She was almost sort of editing the tape for the cops. Gary, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.799 when did you first find out that you were considered 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:43.520 a suspect? 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:44.440 Oh? 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.800 I had no clue until the police came one morning 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.200 and busted my door open. They had a search more 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.880 for marijuana. It was a quarter ounce, and they were 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.440 looking for everything except marijuana. They threw my wife and 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.320 myself on the ground, handcuffed us. They drug my kids 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.640 out of the bedrooms. One of them stuck a gun 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.080 to my son's face, leaving the bruise. They made my 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.479 sixteen year old daughter and her friend come out of 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.760 the back bedroom, wouldn't let them get a dressed. They 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.320 run their bra and panties in front of all those police, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.599 and I was just outraged. I didn't find out until 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.880 two weeks after I had been arrested for the marijuana 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.000 that I was implicated in a murder. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.760 The idea that they were willing to bust up your 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.680 house and manhandle your family in a way that they 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.080 did for a quarter ound supot. Of course, we know 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.320 that that wasn't really what they were after, but that's 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.360 the idea that it could be used as a pretext 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.880 to go in and bust up a house and a 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.160 family like that. That can't go on anymore. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:50.520 Amazingly enough, it was dry in that area of marijuana 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:51.120 at the time. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:53.359 Beverly's the one that sold it to me. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.960 They knew exactly where to go find it, and I'm 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.880 really believing that they gave to her to sell to me. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:02.760 Wow. 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.200 Well, I think it's important to realize that Beverly and 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.160 Rex had also been busted and both of them were 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:16.320 facing serious criminal charges. And Rex was on parole from Oklahoma, 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.440 and he was facing forty years if he screwed up 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.440 his parole, but as a career criminal, he was looking 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.720 at a LFE sentence in Alabama. So both of them 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:30.560 were hugely motivated to try to give them Gary a 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.840 likely suspect in their mind, if they could get Geary 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.120 to confess to something he wouldn't confess to and didn't do. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.960 Now, Dalton Pace was not a small guy. Right, this 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.800 is a big, strong man who put up a tremendous struggle, 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.200 and that plays into the story as well. Gary, forget 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.440 the fact that you had an airtight alibi because you 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.800 were thirty five miles away and there was a particular 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.920 reason why your alibi was so tight. Just explain to 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.640 the audience what was going on that very day when 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:00.960 mister was murdered. 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.880 I had bought fourteen acres of land, and the neighbor 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.840 had gave my daughter a Pickanese dog that was pregnant. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.440 She wanted to pick of the litter of the puppies, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.160 and she told us when she started having the puppies 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.040 to call her and she would come out there and 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.200 help us birth them. So the night of the murder, 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.920 which I knew nothing about, we called the lady and 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.000 she came over to the house with her boyfriend and 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.080 she was back with my daughter helping her birth the 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.960 puppies as her boyfriend and I were sitting in the 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.760 living room watching the news. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.760 And you were also in no physical shape to murder 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.400 anybody at the time, right. 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.040 No, I was on strong muscle lectures and I was 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.160 laid up on the couch and from a back injury. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.680 Is it fair to say that you couldn't have even 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.880 driven to thirty five miles, much less got out of 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.520 the car and gone it. Struggled with a big, strong man. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.040 I could have actually driven there, but I couldn't have 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.160 struggled with him and overcame anything. 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.960 So, Richard, how the hell did they build a care 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.400 with no evidence? And how were they able to convince 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.640 a jury that he did it when it should have 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:11.880 been obvious to anyone that these snitches were incentivized and 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.600 in all likelihood were the actual perpetrators. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.760 Well, it's a great question because Geary was appointed for 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.320 that first trial three local lawyers, but none of them 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.200 were experienced criminal lawyers, and especially not in the death 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.959 penalty arena. They didn't call the doctor that treated Geary 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.679 that would have explained the extent of his condition. The 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:42.000 fingernail scrapings that were on the deceased Dalton pace. They 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:46.240 didn't even challenge that they weren't tested, nor that fingerprints 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.959 that were taken from the whiskey wasn't compared to Rex 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.160 or to Beverly. They didn't do any of that. What 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.880 they did was they called Beverly as the chief witness 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:01.280 and they called the detective that had engineered the wired 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:06.480 conversation with Gary and Beverly. And here's the kicker. That 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.600 particular detective told the jury that while he couldn't hear 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.320 all of what was on the tape, he was able 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:20.360 to hear that Geary said to Beverly, the old man 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:22.880 grabbed me, and you know, I had no choice but 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.920 to shoot him, which was never on there. But the 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.679 lawyers unfortunately let that slide, and the jury believed the 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.480 detective that Geary had confessed when he didn't. 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.880 You no, jury's can be misled fairly easily when people 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.679 in positions of power view that power. And that's exactly 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.280 what happened here. Now, the jury didn't deliberate very long. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.200 Yeah, approximately an hour. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.240 The judge had told one of his secretaries, and it 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.760 got back to my mother that if I put on 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.000 some type of mitigating evidence that he would give me 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:02.000 a life without problem. Well, I wasn't about to get 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.679 my mother up there begging and crying for my life 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.520 when I hadn't done anything, and I didn't put on 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.480 any mitigating evidence, and I was found guilty and sentenced 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:15.120 to death. And that was devastating because I figured, well, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:16.880 I'm going down there with the worst of the worst. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.280 I've got to be watching my back all the time. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.480 I think it's a lot of people's worst nightmare and 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.120 you were living it. Can you just give us a 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.320 sense of death row in Alabama? You know, take us 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.839 inside that cell if you can't. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:35.840 Well, it was a little five by eight concrete cell. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.760 I mean most people's bathrooms are larger than that. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:41.760 It was nasty. 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.320 They would give you clean and supplies, but you couldn't 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:49.240 keep it clean. There was cockroaches three inches long, rats 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:54.800 running around, insane people hollering. We had a man I 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.160 was on the second tier. There was a man on 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.800 the first tier. He would holler twenty four hours a 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:04.440 day day. There were people committing suicide trying to beat 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:09.080 the executioner. There were people committing suicide because they were 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.199 in so much pain and the doctors wouldn't help them. 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.920 Your friends get sent to be executed. If the wind's 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.040 blown right, you can smell burning flash. It was unreal. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.400 This episode is underwritten by the AIG pro Bono Program. 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:39.160 AIG is a leading global insurance company, and for over 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:43.000 a decade, the AIG pro Bono program has provided thousands 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.120 of hours of free legal services and other support to 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.680 nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need. More recently, the 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.440 program added criminal and social justice reform as a key 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:59.079 pillar of its mission. The Pacers Foundation is a proud 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.800 supporter of this episod of Wraful Convision with Jason Flam 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.480 and of the Last Mile Organization, which provides business and 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.439 tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.000 enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed to improving 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.760 the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations that are 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.960 dedicated primarily to helping young people and students. For more 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.280 information on the work of the Pacers Foundation or the 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.520 Last Mile Program, please visit Pacersfoundation dot org or the 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:42.079 Lastmile dot org. I was rereading your chapter in Richard's 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.360 wonderful book Quest for Justice Defending the Damned. It's the 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.200 second edition. The stories are really brilliantly told. You really 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.800 get a chance to be inside the mind of one 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.520 of the great courtroom lawyers of our time in life 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.400 or death situations. So I think you'll enjoy reading it. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.360 But as I was rereading that chapter today, I was 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.720 thinking about you. Somehow or other went from I don't 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.079 know what you want to call it the outhouse of 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.840 the penthouse in terms of your legal representation, because you 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.880 ended up having the great Brian Stevenson get you a retrial. 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.440 The first attorneys at the trial didn't do a good job, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.920 and I was fearful that the appeals attorney wouldn't do 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.120 a good job. So I wrote mister Stevenson begging for 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.400 an attorney to handle my appeals. When I did hear 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.400 back from him, he appointed mister Randy Suskin to handle 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:33.120 my appeals. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.200 I was thrilled Gary got. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:40.760 A new trial because of prosecutorial misconduct improper evidence offered 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.200 against him in his first trial. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.680 And now that Brian Stevenson and Randy Suskin have done 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:46.560 their part. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:47.400 You got involved. 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.600 You weren't even really a decated lawyer, so you had 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.080 to basically pull some strings and maneuver yourself into this case. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.040 If I was going to get on, I knew that 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.160 I would have to get appointed. The problem with getting 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.080 appointed was that the judge doesn't know me. I've not 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.080 practiced there, but John Mays, my good friend, did and 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.880 does practice there. So John was ultimately able to talk 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.680 to Judge into appointing us both with some conditions, and 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.920 then Steve Wright from the Southern Cider from Human Rights 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.400 called me at home and he offered the services of 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.120 Chris Adams and the mitigation team of Southern Center. It 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.720 was a deal I would never refused, and boom, we 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:26.920 had our team in place. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.760 I think for many people listening, they're probably going, well, Okay, 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.520 now you got this dream team. You have all this evidence. 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.800 The state has no evidence. This should have been a 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:35.560 slam dunk. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.000 The first thing that happened in this case right before 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:44.840 trial that basically just blew our world was this We 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.960 were counting on the perfect alibi that Geary had, which 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.480 was multiple people besides of course the doctor in his back. 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:57.160 And one of those alibi witnesses testified in the first trial, 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.640 and her name was Kelly Hargrove. That was Gary's stepdaughter. Well, 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.240 Kelly was going to be one of three or four 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.360 alibi witnesses we were going to call, and right before 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.200 trial we couldn't reach her, and she had moved to 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.640 Panama City and she would not respond to ours, couldn't 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.400 even subpoena her. And we figured out what happened they 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.640 had cut a deal with her, meaning that she had 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.320 got in trouble in Panama City. She was facing some 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.280 potential theft charges, and she cut a deal, even though 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.400 the state never admitted it, and suddenly she became the 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:38.200 chief witness for the state. She basically said, I perjured 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.560 myself in the first trial, and Gary confessed to me, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.280 and that was her testimony in the second trial. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.280 So they were far from done with their dirty tricks. 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.480 And in fact, they really pulled the rug out from 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.720 under you in a pretty serious way here. So you 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.320 had to pivot. But that wasn't the only card you 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:56.880 had to play. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:03.280 Oh no, no, no. So where I candidly made a 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.600 tremendous tactical mistake, and I write about it in the 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.040 book with clarity and candor, because lawyers need to be 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.720 conscious of every word they speak. And I ask a 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.000 question that I never should have asked, and it was 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.359 what were the scratches that she claimed that she sold 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.120 twelve days later when she said Gary confessed, where were 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:31.240 they on Geary? And it was a huge mistake because 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.679 I didn't take into consideration the obvious is that they 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.320 would have prepped her and showed her the pictures of 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:41.280 the scratches that Geary had that he received when he 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:46.800 was arrested and basically jerked onto the concrete from his automobile. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.679 They jerked him out about it causing scratches, and she 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.520 described those scratches as being very red and very fresh 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.560 and long scratches, and it was what the picture showed, 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.399 and it was an awful moment for me. Fortunately, we 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.240 got a lunch break and everybody else was eating lunch. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.000 I was like underwater, and then I figured it out, 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.480 like a bell went on right before we went back. 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:17.720 Is that there's no way that those were the scratches 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.919 that she saw, because if she'd seen those scratches twelve 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.639 days later when she said Gary confessed, they wouldn't have 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.600 been fresh, they would have been scabbed, and they would 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.479 have been in the healing process. There's no way that 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.840 those scratches would have occurred at the crime scene from 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:35.760 Dalton Pace. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:36.720 There's no way. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.520 And once I overcame that hurdle, then showing that she 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.720 was beyond belief was very easy to do, especially since 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.040 we had Affi Davids from all the people she stole 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.720 from in Panama City that she denied. 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.920 So the step daughter's claims about an alleged compession were 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.560 proven to be totally incredible. That lie brought to you, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.879 of course by prosecutor conduct. But this wasn't the only 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.720 person that they'd courced. 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.600 An alibi witness that was a friend of Gary's daughter. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.920 We flew her up from Oregon on our own dime, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.400 and when the investigators and the prosecution found out, they 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.760 intimidated her at the motel where she was staying and 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.959 basically spooked her, and she refused to testify. They threatened 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.400 her with perjury, and that would have been a nice 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.600 thing to have her because she was another strong alibi 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:34.680 witness that they used their power to keep her from testifying. 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.199 Now comes another state's witness. Beverly gets back on the 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.480 stand to repeat the lies she told in the first trial, 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.439 and really the lies that started the whole thing. And 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.280 of course she denied having an incentive to lie, and 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.960 Richard proved that her denials were lies, destroying her credibility. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.600 So now Beverly, who bears a great deal of responsibility 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.800 for Gary's wrongful conviction, was all deflated. And when she 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:06.119 got off the stand, she does something absolutely nuts. Gary, 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:07.600 go ahead, do you speak to that. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.639 Right as she was getting off the stand, she looks 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.560 over at me and says, Carrie, I've always loved you. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.920 And the judge said, get her out of here, get 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.520 her out of here. I mean, everybody in there could 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.520 tell she was lying. Everybody could tell she was hot, 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:24.199 she was hopped up. 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.800 That's like, it's like a movie. It's like it's like 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.359 some of my cousin VINNI shit or something. It's crazy. Really, 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.280 what were the other key things that you think really 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.080 turned the jury around. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.639 Well, let me start by saying this that in the 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:56.160 first trial, the detective detective Gary Walker had said that 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:01.680 while listening to the tape recorded conversation between and Beverly, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.040 his half sister, that Gary confessed. And I already mentioned that, 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.119 but the tape got enhanced because we insisted the FBI 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:14.920 and Anstein. They brought the agent to testify in the 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:19.240 state court, and the FBI agent had to be honest. 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.080 And as many times as we played the enhanced tape, 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:29.440 he never heard Gary confess because it wasn't on there. 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:35.199 And then Detective Walker testified in spite of it not 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.240 being on there. He insisted even on my cross with him, 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:44.919 he insisted that Gary basically confessed, and we played that 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.439 tape at least a half a dozen times, and it 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:53.040 was very clear that Gary never confessed. It was never 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.879 on the tape, and he could not have heard what 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.840 he told the jury in the first trial. On the 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.080 second trial that he heard. And when that occurred, I 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.760 think the trial was pretty much over in our favor. 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.080 I knew we'd put on a good case, and I 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.360 knew I had a good chance of being found not guilty. 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.040 But you'll never never allow your hopes to get up, 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:20.760 or you'll get crushed and it'll devastate you all over again. 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.399 But when they sent the jury out to deliberate, Richard 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.840 and the other attorneys went after some coffee. Well, the 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.200 laps in the courthouse went out. Somebody outside had hit 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.679 a telephone pole, and a police officer that was sitting 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.560 with me put a gun in my back, and I'm thinking, 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:41.919 oh Lord, this Sidi's going to shoot me before I 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.040 even get a chance to hear the juror. 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.119 Jesus Christ again, if you put that in a movie, 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:49.880 somebody would go, now, I be gonna believe that. Sorry, 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:50.600 I gotta take that out. 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:51.440 Gary. 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.560 We talked about the worst moment of your life when 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.480 you were found guilty. So this is the opposite. Paint 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.120 the picture for us as best you can. You take 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.240 us inside that moment in the courtroom. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:05.720 Well, when they told me to stand up and they 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:10.040 pronounced a not guilty verdict, everybody in the courtroom, I 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.720 believe had tears. I think the old judge even she 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.800 had a couple of tears. That was probably the happiest 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:17.720 moment of my life. 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:23.320 We interviewed the drawers afterwards and they all said, basically, look, 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:25.840 we know he never could have done it, he never 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.320 should have been charged, and we reached our verdict in 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.679 less than five minutes. There's no way to quantify the 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:38.639 depth of your feelings when someone is basically snatched away 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:40.119 from the grips of death. 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.200 Well, I'm walking out the courthouse and my mother's there, 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:49.119 my ex wife's there with my children, are good friends there. 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:54.240 My kids are just thrilled to death, and they asked 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.960 me what's the first thing I want to do. I said, 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:00.679 get some barbecue right away. 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.520