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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I'm not one to believe

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Speaker 1: in ghosts, but many times when you're driving down the road,

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Speaker 1: particularly down here in the Deep South, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that comes to mind when you're in a car

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Speaker 1: by yourself late at night, you wonder what's out there.

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Speaker 1: You wonder what might be approaching you. Can you imagine

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Speaker 1: being on your way to work one day, you look

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Speaker 1: up and you see something in the little road. You're

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Speaker 1: not really sure what that might be, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, you swerve at the last second and

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Speaker 1: you think to yourself, what did I just see? And

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Speaker 1: your brain is going to another place other than human remains.

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Speaker 1: The case that we're going to talk about today involves

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Speaker 1: human remains. It actually involves the body of a young man,

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Speaker 1: a young man that has been in the news quite

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Speaker 1: a bit recently. We're gonna talk about his death. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about his discovery in the middle of a

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Speaker 1: lonely two lane blacktop in the low country of South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the death of Stephen Smith. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs. My buddy

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Speaker 1: Dave mac He's a senior reporter with Crime Online, Dave,

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Speaker 1: do you ever have those moments where you're driving down

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Speaker 1: the road and yet think you catch something in your

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Speaker 1: eyeline and you're not really sure what it is, and

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Speaker 1: then you have to do a double taking thing. I

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Speaker 1: can't believe I just saw what I saw. I have

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Speaker 1: so many questions for you about the death of Steven Smith.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine going down the road early morning hours.

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Speaker 1: You're just getting your day started, a cup of coffee

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Speaker 1: in your hand, and you come upon something in the

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Speaker 1: road that obviously ought not be there, and all I

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Speaker 1: could think of is the panic, and you're not exactly sure,

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Speaker 1: so you have to stop your car and check it on.

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Speaker 1: Whatever it is you're compelled to do that, you know

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Speaker 1: at any number of levels, And I've actually encountered this

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Speaker 1: working as a death investigator, where I'll be talking to

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Speaker 1: somebody interviewing them out on the scene of a person

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Speaker 1: found in the roadway. They almost always say, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe this is happening. I can't believe this is happening,

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Speaker 1: because I think there's something in our brain where we

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Speaker 1: want to make that thing that we have discovered something

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Speaker 1: other than human. We don't want to see a fellow

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Speaker 1: human being lying there before us. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: most horrific things that you can imagine. In our minds.

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Speaker 1: We're thinking, yeah, this is probably a deer, because that's

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Speaker 1: the most common thing that we encounter. And then you

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Speaker 1: might think, well, it might be a pet that I've

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Speaker 1: encountered any number of things over the years that have

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Speaker 1: crossed my path in the middle of the road, particularly

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Speaker 1: down in South Louisiana. I've seen oggs in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the road. I've actually seen the alligator that have

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Speaker 1: been hit. That doesn't happen a lot, but it's a

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Speaker 1: ferocious kind of thing relative to the damage it can

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Speaker 1: do your car because the bodies of these alligators are

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Speaker 1: so low. I've seen two of them in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the road, good size ones as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: and I can only imagine the person that ran over them.

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Speaker 1: It was quite a shock. But you're trying to think

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Speaker 1: of something other than human. And then once it hits you,

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Speaker 1: and can you imagine pulling over on the side of

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Speaker 1: the road in that darkness, and you're trying to think,

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Speaker 1: what do I do? What do I say next? How

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Speaker 1: do I respond to this? Do I run up to

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Speaker 1: this individual and see if in fact they are alive.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's someone that's in nebriate and somebody push them

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Speaker 1: out of the vehicle and dumped them on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road. Maybe it's somebody that's in trouble, somebody

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Speaker 1: that's in crisis. But that confirmatory moment after you've initially

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Speaker 1: seen it, and then you have to go back and

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Speaker 1: validate it. I think in your mind that's a hard thing.

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Speaker 1: And then when people are hit with that reality, it's

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Speaker 1: certainly something that stays with you for the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life. This was is categorized as a hit and run,

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Speaker 1: an unsolved crime of a hit and run. Let me

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Speaker 1: stop you right there. People need to understand something. Stephen

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Speaker 1: Smith's case is not simply a hit and run. This

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Speaker 1: is an open homicide, period, end of story. There's no

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Speaker 1: debate on that. You have an individual that is dead

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Speaker 1: at the hand of another person, and in a very

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Speaker 1: tight definition, that's how we define homicide. You're not making

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Speaker 1: judgment about anyone when you say that. I don't like

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Speaker 1: the term murder because it's a lawyer's word. It's a

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Speaker 1: theatrical word almost, and yet it's on the books in

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Speaker 1: many states, but when you talk about homicide, it's much

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Speaker 1: more clinical. You begin to think about homicide death at

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Speaker 1: the hand of another. I guess it could potentially be

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Speaker 1: ruled as an accident at some point in time, but

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Speaker 1: at its base element if what they are saying is

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Speaker 1: accurate relative to the authorities. You have an individual that

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Speaker 1: was driving a vehicle and they struck someone and they left.

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Speaker 1: That's where the hit and run comes in. But from

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Speaker 1: a medical legal perspective, this is going to be a homicide.

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Speaker 1: And this is an open case. And now we're seven

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Speaker 1: eight years down range from when this actually happened back

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. We hear the term coal case thrown around.

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Speaker 1: I think about my dear sister Cheryl McCullum and her

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Speaker 1: podcast Zone seven. That's what she deals with. You get

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Speaker 1: seven years down range from case and you don't have

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Speaker 1: any leads in it. Many instances that would be considered cold,

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Speaker 1: but I think that this case is far from cold

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Speaker 1: at this point. There's a lot here from an evidentiary

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Speaker 1: standpoint that you can look to kind of understand what happened.

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Speaker 1: In the world of trying to bring justice for anybody

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Speaker 1: that's not my Bailey Wick. I'm interested in the science

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Speaker 1: of things, the forensics behind it. If that winds up

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Speaker 1: bringing about justice, then that's fine. But the dynamics of

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Speaker 1: this thing are fascinating. There's enough there that we can

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Speaker 1: begin to kind of unwrap this thing and kind of

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Speaker 1: talk about a little bit more. Okay, you find a

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Speaker 1: body in the middle of the road. How do you

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Speaker 1: go from that to determining that it was a hit

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Speaker 1: and run and nothing else. His body was found in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the road, and I'm curious what happens

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Speaker 1: from that moment, Joe. When the nine one one operator

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Speaker 1: gets the call of a body in the road, what

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Speaker 1: do they do? Do they call you? They call police?

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Speaker 1: That's an excellent question because I think that most people

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Speaker 1: would think that retrospectively, they would think you're going to

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Speaker 1: call the corner. No, you have to validate that the

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Speaker 1: individual is in fact to see So the first person

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Speaker 1: that's going to show up, first responders. They're going to

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Speaker 1: roll out on this. So when that nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: call is initiated, there's a switch that's flipped. What you'll

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Speaker 1: get most of the time is there will be a

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Speaker 1: local fire station that will be alerted and they have

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Speaker 1: a first responder unit that will roll out and generally

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Speaker 1: it looks like a smaller firetruck, not necessarily like an ambulance,

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Speaker 1: but a smaller firetruck. The individuals on that truck will

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Speaker 1: not only be firefighters, but they'll also be EMTs. That's

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Speaker 1: why they get dual certification in firefighting. So you'll have

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Speaker 1: an EMT on there. Sometimes you'll have a paramedic, which

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Speaker 1: is the top end of emergency respons certification if you

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Speaker 1: become a paramedic, and they would roll out to the

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Speaker 1: scene and they're going to do an initial assessment. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the police are rolling there at the same time. You've

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Speaker 1: got an individual that's deceased in the middle of the road.

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Speaker 1: They're going to want to see this as well. So

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Speaker 1: you've got all of these people kind of rolling up there.

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Speaker 1: And EMTs are a big part of what we do

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Speaker 1: in medical legal death investigation because they're the first eyes

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Speaker 1: on the scene. They see things in a very unvarnished

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Speaker 1: manner before they roll up. The body is in a

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Speaker 1: pristine state. So what's their job. Well, their job there

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Speaker 1: is not to investigate. Their job is to save lives.

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Speaker 1: I've had them saved my life before when they roll out,

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Speaker 1: they're going to be the first group of people that

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Speaker 1: are going to see this. And you know what's very

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Speaker 1: curious about this day is that when the EMTs first

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Speaker 1: showed up where Stephen Smith was found out there on

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Speaker 1: that lonely country road, they took one look at him.

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Speaker 1: And some reports are saying that the EMTs initially thought

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Speaker 1: that he'd looked like he had sustained a gunshot Woun't

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Speaker 1: I find that curious because when they did that initial assessment,

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Speaker 1: they apparently looked at his head and his head from

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Speaker 1: their perspective out on the scene when they flashed their

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Speaker 1: flashlights on him. They had the lights on their truck

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Speaker 1: on which are brilliant, very very bright. They're seeing such

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Speaker 1: trauma to this young man's head as skull that they're thinking,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we're dealing with a gunshot wound, where

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Speaker 1: someone has been left in the middle of the road

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Speaker 1: with a gsw to their head. There was something about

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Speaker 1: the way he looked that their mind didn't go to

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Speaker 1: pedestrian struck by a vehicle, Dave. Their mind went to

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Speaker 1: gunshot wound. I'm absolutely fascinated by that. Of course, they

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Speaker 1: later determined that not only did he have trauma to

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Speaker 1: his head, but he also had trauma to his upper extremities,

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Speaker 1: his arm and his hands. I think there was a

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Speaker 1: dislocated shoulder, that sort of thing. There was just something

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Speaker 1: that didn't quite integrate into their thinking. Here. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: these EMTs they see a lot more than we can

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Speaker 1: ever imagine because they roll out on everything, roll out

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Speaker 1: on all these motor vehicle accidents that don't wind up

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Speaker 1: as a fatality, but yet they see trauma and they're

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Speaker 1: constantly assessing in what the medical profession refers to as

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Speaker 1: triaging patients, doing that initial assessment determining what's wrong with them.

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Speaker 1: And Steven Smith's case, I think that they were really

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Speaker 1: shocked to see him in the state that he was

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Speaker 1: in and certainly the level of tet trauma he had sustained.

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Speaker 1: Then how different would it be for those investigators he

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Speaker 1: determined when they are told by first responders, looks like

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Speaker 1: gunshot wound to the head. As investigators, we look for

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Speaker 1: feedback from the EMTs. The common question is what do

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Speaker 1: you think, doc? What do you think? Because the investigators

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Speaker 1: they want an immediate assessment as to what you're looking at.

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Speaker 1: After the corner arrived out there at the scene and

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Speaker 1: speaking with the accident investigators, the police officers that were

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Speaker 1: out there, they concluded that this was a hit and run,

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't a gunshot one. I think that afterwards,

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Speaker 1: when they got Steven's remains to the friends of Cathology

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Speaker 1: just in the forensic pathologists did the assessment, they ruled

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Speaker 1: out gunshot wound at that time. Back to the scene,

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Speaker 1: there's just certain things that we look for. There's certain

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Speaker 1: elements along the way that we try to understand about

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Speaker 1: the dynamics of a motor vehicle versus a human being.

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Speaker 1: No witnesses, just perhaps Stephen Smith, we don't know what

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Speaker 1: he saw, what he experienced right before his life ended

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Speaker 1: out there. And of course the person that was driving

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Speaker 1: the vehicle, that person is out there somewhere according to authorities.

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Speaker 1: I think that the answers perhaps or the lack of answers,

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Speaker 1: are going to arrest in what was found or wasn't

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Speaker 1: found out of the scene. As you mentioned, there are

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Speaker 1: no witnesses to this. We have the police or investigators

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Speaker 1: rather saying it was a hit and run. We have

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Speaker 1: a body of nineteen year old man found in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the road, not on the side. He is

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the road. It's the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night. He had apparently been walking because his car

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Speaker 1: was found about three miles away out of gas. So

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Speaker 1: assuming that Stephen Smith is walking down the middle of

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Speaker 1: the road and he's hit, I've got questions about what

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Speaker 1: you expect as an investigator on the scene. Would his

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Speaker 1: body taking on a vehicle, would it just crumple and

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Speaker 1: end up right there in the road, or would it

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Speaker 1: not be pushed in a different direction. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to know there are no skid

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Speaker 1: marks here because the impact was such and so quick.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned it was dark, didn't see him to the

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Speaker 1: last second. No skid marks and apparently not a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of broken glass or anything like that. But his

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Speaker 1: body is found in the road. Is that what you

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Speaker 1: would expect? And what kind of damage would you expect

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Speaker 1: to vehicle or human or both. Let's take this example

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Speaker 1: of a vehicle striking a pedestrian. Our listeners on body

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Speaker 1: backs are pretty bright people. You guys like science. You

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Speaker 1: like to delve into science. You wouldn't be here if

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Speaker 1: you didn't. And to understand the dynamics of a motor

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Speaker 1: vehicle striking a human. Just like humans, cars come in

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Speaker 1: all different shapes and sizes. Close your eyes and think

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Speaker 1: about a full size pickup truck, and I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: a full size pickup truck, which we've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of in the South. Sometimes these things can be rather big,

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Speaker 1: particularly if there's some type of aftermarket additions to these things,

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Speaker 1: where you've got rush bumpers on the front of it.

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Speaker 1: That's that big thing that sits forward to the grille.

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Speaker 1: You've got a certain level of height to them that

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Speaker 1: can be adjusted with a lift kit. On a truck,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's got big mirrors on the side that kind

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Speaker 1: of protrude out. Conversely, you begin to think about four

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Speaker 1: or family sedan that's going down the road, Well, that

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Speaker 1: configuration is completely different. Maybe you've got kind of a

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Speaker 1: sloping front end that almost looks like a shovel on

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Speaker 1: the front. It's not blunted like a pickup truck is.

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Speaker 1: Then we could go on and on and on relative

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Speaker 1: to all of the configurations, but let's just take those

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Speaker 1: two examples and the dynamics that are going to occur

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Speaker 1: between a human body being struck by either one of

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Speaker 1: those platforms. Think about the truck. Many times with a truck,

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Speaker 1: you will see an initial impact depended upon the orientation

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Speaker 1: of the victim to the oncoming vehicle, you will get

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Speaker 1: an initial impact. Just the energy itself will push that

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Speaker 1: body down range forward of the vehicle just for an instant,

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Speaker 1: and then you'll have that occur with these bodies meantimes

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Speaker 1: what we refer to as rollover injuries. So there's two

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Speaker 1: separate things here. You've got the initial point of impact.

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Speaker 1: We look for things like mumper marks. If you imagine

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Speaker 1: a mannequin being position in the middle of the road

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Speaker 1: in an upright fully erect position and a vehicle is

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Speaker 1: coming along that first point of contact with the leading

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Speaker 1: edge of that vehicle, and the human remains or the

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Speaker 1: human body is probably going to be the thigh, might

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Speaker 1: be the lower legs. In the case of a truck,

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Speaker 1: if it's elevated, you might get a grill strike that

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Speaker 1: takes place on the upper torso I've even seen grill

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Speaker 1: impressions on the sides of faces where people see it's

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Speaker 1: coming in kind of at a primal level that turn

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Speaker 1: in one instant, but you're going to have this kind

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Speaker 1: of full on flush strike and you'll get these multiple

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Speaker 1: points of contact. If it's an elevated vehicle, many times

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Speaker 1: you'll get these what I refer to is rollover injuries.

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Speaker 1: And if you'll think about clothes in a tumble dryer,

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Speaker 1: the body as it hits the ground or the roadway

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Speaker 1: in front of it, the vehicle will then roll over

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Speaker 1: the body. You can't stop a big vehicle on a dime.

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Speaker 1: That's why you have skid marks. So you'll have individuals

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Speaker 1: that will be struck and then the car actually rolls

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Speaker 1: over them. And these injuries that you get look like

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Speaker 1: the person's essentially in a tumble dryer, but yet they're

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Speaker 1: having this tremendous pressure that's being applied to the body,

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Speaker 1: and you'll get these weird looking abrasions all over the body.

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Speaker 1: They'll be kind of curvilinear, depended upon the position of

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Speaker 1: the body and the dynamics of the tires and then

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Speaker 1: the undercarriage of the car as well. We go out

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Speaker 1: the scenes and you have these ferocious injuries on bodies.

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Speaker 1: We'll get beneath the vehicle and it's nothing to get

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Speaker 1: beneath the vehicle and see all kind of distribution of

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Speaker 1: tissue beneath the undercarriage of the car. I've seen bone

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Speaker 1: brained skin. I could just go on and on about

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Speaker 1: everything I found beneath the car. You'll find fabric from

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Speaker 1: the vehicles that's kind of deposited underneath the car. You'll

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Speaker 1: see it on the inner portion of the wheel wells,

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Speaker 1: dynamic blood deposition as well. Because you're talking about something

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Speaker 1: that's just shy of high velocity, it's a high end,

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Speaker 1: medium velocity spatter that's taking place. So you'll see a

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Speaker 1: lot that's going on beneath the car. And also you'll

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Speaker 1: have road dirt, you'll have a rubber, You'll have all

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Speaker 1: these items from the car that are transferred to the body. Dave,

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Speaker 1: it's nothing to find a tire impression on a body.

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Speaker 1: I've seen this time and time again, and it's glaring.

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Speaker 1: You can actually take a photo of it and kind

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Speaker 1: of closely qualified relative to a particular make of tire

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Speaker 1: if you can imagine that, and you can even see

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Speaker 1: some evidence of wear patterns on tires. That's with a

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Speaker 1: big truck. If we go to a car like a

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Speaker 1: low sedan, what happens is that when a body is

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Speaker 1: struck and I'm talking about full flush, I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: about glancing blow here, but full flush you'll have an

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Speaker 1: individual that we'll have bumper marks, particularly if it's a

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Speaker 1: low profile. You'll see breakage many times in the lower

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Speaker 1: limbs in addition to external contusions and abrasions. And what

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Speaker 1: happens is that the body is essentially pitched up in

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Speaker 1: the air day and will impact at many times on

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Speaker 1: the hood or on the windshield where the glass will crack.

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Speaker 1: You'll get blood deposition on top of the car. They'll

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Speaker 1: roll over the top of the vehicle. You'll see blood

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Speaker 1: sometimes deposited on the roof of the car and then

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Speaker 1: off of the back. And those injuries are very unique

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Speaker 1: in and of themselves, and you'll get transfer on the

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Speaker 1: front of the car as well. If anybody has ever

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Speaker 1: struck an animal with your car, you can many times

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Speaker 1: go out and look at the headlights on your car

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Speaker 1: or the grill and you'll see tufts of hair they're

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Speaker 1: caught in there. If you were to pluck those hairs out.

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Speaker 1: From a morphological standpoint, you can actually identify the species

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Speaker 1: relative to that. Well, we've found human hair and grills before,

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Speaker 1: you certainly find other types of tissue. If we're going

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Speaker 1: with the idea that Steven Smith was struck by a vehicle.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt in my mind that there would have

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Speaker 1: been some kind of deposition onto the surface of that

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Speaker 1: vehicle that would have given you evidence of Stephen Smith's person,

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Speaker 1: his physical person. There would and something left behind on

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Speaker 1: the car. And of course, since they never were able

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Speaker 1: to go and find a vehicle that was associated with

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Speaker 1: this case, that evidence now is long since gone. The

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Speaker 1: only thing that you really have now are recollections where

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Speaker 1: you go back and say, yeah, you know what shut

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Speaker 1: up to work one day in the windshield on his

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00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 1: car had a big, massive tape on it. He said

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Speaker 1: what happened and said, oh, man, this truck came by

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Speaker 1: and it threw a rock and splintered my window, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it was repaired. They get

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Speaker 1: out there really quick to repair these sorts of things. Sometimes,

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Speaker 1: so you would have had a vehicle in the same

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Speaker 1: area that would have been moving around, it would have

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Speaker 1: had significant damage to it. So you would think with

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Speaker 1: the kind of damage you just just drive, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a truck or a sedan, whatever, there would be damage

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Speaker 1: to the vehicle that from an investigative standpoint, looking at

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Speaker 1: the area, this happened the time that had happened. I know,

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Speaker 1: we cannot assume, but based on that, you would think

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Speaker 1: it would be somebody familiar with the area, because who

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Speaker 1: else would be driving around there in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night, in the middle of July. It's not a

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Speaker 1: major thoroughfare. The fella that made the call, I mean,

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Speaker 1: God bless him wherever he is today, because he had

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Speaker 1: to witness this horrible thing. He said, well, this is

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Speaker 1: what we call the road. Essentially, you get a flavor

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Speaker 1: from him that it's out in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: This is in kind of the nether region out here.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to have street lights. Anybody that's on

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Speaker 1: this road, I guess you could be lost and be

361
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Speaker 1: on the road, but more than likely you know the

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Speaker 1: lay of the land. This is a thoroughfare that you

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00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: go up and down on a regular basis. You would

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Speaker 1: think that the individual would be a local. And let

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Speaker 1: me tell you something. I've got a lot of friends

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Speaker 1: that have been down in the Low Country recently in

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Speaker 1: the media, and the one thing that come back and

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Speaker 1: say is that, Wow, these houses are really really far

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Speaker 1: apart down here. You get a lot of city dwellers

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Speaker 1: that go down there to cover these cases, and they're

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Speaker 1: shocked by how underpopulated the area is. It's a low

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Speaker 1: populated area and so you've got huge gaps of distances

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Speaker 1: between homes. So automatically you begin to think the most

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Speaker 1: obvious thing somebody that would have struck him in this

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Speaker 1: vehicle that was probably tied to that region. We know

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Speaker 1: that he has blunt forced drama to his head. What

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Speaker 1: other damage on his body would you expect to see

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Speaker 1: Joe if he were hit by a vehicle as we

379
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Speaker 1: mentioned versus bonders that looked like a gunshot wound to

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Speaker 1: the head. This is the odd thing, Dave about this

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Speaker 1: case what we know about it through media reports and

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Speaker 1: this sort of thing, that the injuries he sustained were

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Speaker 1: essentially concentrated in his head, his hands, and he's got

384
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Speaker 1: a dislocated shoulder. That's an odd grouping. It's obviously all

385
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Speaker 1: upper body, But we have to think about is that

386
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Speaker 1: all you've got if you're standing erect in the center

387
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Speaker 1: of the road. If that's the case, then why aren't

388
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Speaker 1: there bumper marks? Why aren't there widespread fracturing which there

389
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: would have been. Get busted ribs. People will sustain many

390
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: times was referred to as a flailed chest, which is

391
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Speaker 1: essentially where the rib cage kind of fractures along the

392
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Speaker 1: periphery and the breastplace essentially, to put into practical terms,

393
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: kind of floating there. You've got punctured lungs, you've got

394
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Speaker 1: fractured pelvis, you got fractured legs. Bilaterally, many times the femurs,

395
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 1: the upper bones in the legs, FIBs will be fractured. Certainly,

396
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: the ankles will be fractured. You get fractured arms, but hands, hands,

397
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Speaker 1: and head, and that's really the damage that they've talked about.

398
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Speaker 1: That's an interesting configuration when you're doing an assessment on injuries.

399
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 1: I think that the forensic pathologist actually opined that this

400
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: was probably a mirror strike. What do you mean by

401
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 1: a mirror strike, Joe, Well, a mirror strike would be

402
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: if Stephen was standing on the shoulder of the road

403
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 1: and you've got a big, extended mirror. Because I can't

404
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: imagine just like a tiny kind of molded mirror that's

405
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: built into the side of a car, I can't imagine

406
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 1: it would do this kind of damage. And that's one

407
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: of the reasons I'm thinking truck if you're going with

408
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: mirror strike, then that means the mirror would have to

409
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: be kind of in an elevated position, high ending out.

410
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: It would have to be sufficient in size and mass

411
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Speaker 1: in order to deliver this kind of force that would

412
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Speaker 1: create a head injury so severe that when the EMTs

413
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: rolled out initially what they call it dave, what they

414
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: call it, they call it a gunshot wound and not

415
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: just gunshot wound, they were probably thinking, oh my god,

416
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Speaker 1: look at the destruction of this guy's head. It's so massive.

417
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Speaker 1: It looks like his head has been shattered by a firearm.

418
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: These EMTs, they would have seen gunshot wounds before, and

419
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: that was immediately what their brain kind of flew to.

420
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: When you're assessing this out at the scene and you're

421
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: looking at this, you would think, how could a mirror

422
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 1: do this? How could a mirror strike accomplish this? Just

423
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Speaker 1: like any element of a vehicle depend upon the manufacturing,

424
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: the kind of how it's put together is going to

425
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Speaker 1: leave a distinct trauma induced impression. And if people will

426
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Speaker 1: just for second consider side mirrors on big trucks don't

427
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Speaker 1: just have to be a pickup truck. Let's just use

428
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: like a tractor trailer rig. People have seen those big

429
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: side mirrors. If you think about that, now, that would

430
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: be too high, I think to consider. But just to

431
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: get the word picture in your mind, here relative to

432
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: a mirror, and how it kind of extends out and

433
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 1: you look at kind of how it shapeses got two

434
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: support bars. It looks kind of like a big d

435
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: sticking off of the side of a vehicle, and it's

436
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: got the flap that is in fact the mirror that

437
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: would leave a pattern, particularly if it's textured in any way.

438
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: So if you're struck in the side of the head

439
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: with it, is there an overlying kind of a braided

440
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: pattern and contusion that's associated with that that would give

441
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: you pause to think, This kind of looks like a mirror.

442
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: This might explain it all. So you've explained the head

443
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: strike with a mirror. What about the hands, how the

444
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: hands get traumatized, how the shoulder gets dislocated. All of

445
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: this must factor into your thinking and why are there

446
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: no other injuries? This is the other problem day. The

447
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: other big problem that arises in this is that we

448
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: look not just for skid marks, which shows an awareness

449
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: on the part of the driver they're going to apply

450
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: the brakes. We're gonna look for a debris field. The

451
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: way vehicles are made nowadays, Let's face it, it's not

452
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: like your grannies nineteen fifty seven Chevy going down the road.

453
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: A lot of fiberglass, and it's going to shatter at

454
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: some level, particularly if you're talking about a high, high

455
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: velocity kind of event where you're striking a human being.

456
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: There's no debris, Dave, How's that possible? There's no debris

457
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: at the scene where you've got bits of plastic and

458
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: you've got bits of trim they're torn off, You've got

459
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: these other elements that might be lying about, and my gosh,

460
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: if it was a mirror strike, you're gonna have to

461
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: go a long way around the barn to convince me

462
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: that that mirror would not have become detached. And if

463
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: it didn't become detached completely, by god, it's just gonna

464
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: be hanging offside of that car. And guess what else, Dave,

465
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: it's going to have something that's associated with Stephen Smith

466
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: and his person on it. Probably blood tissue. Maybe even

467
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: here if you didn't think we had enough to talk

468
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: about with Stephen Smith. The latest chapter in this year's

469
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: long investigation. Suddenly a new word, a new term enters

470
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: the lexicon of many people out there that have not

471
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: considered this in the past or maybe have not heard

472
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: about it. I've had phone calls, I've had emails, people

473
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: wanting me to explain what this is. And the word

474
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: is exhamation. You pointed out early on, this is a

475
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: homicide investigation. There have been many, many questions about this

476
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: particular death. It is an unsolved crime. And during the

477
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: recent attention placed on the Murdoch family due to Alec

478
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: Murdau's trial, some information came out and we are not

479
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: privy to that information that caused them to reopen the

480
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: investigation into the death of Stephen Smith. It is now

481
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: an ongoing investigation. Well, Stephen Smith's mother, Sandy, she just

482
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: does not believe the story. She's never bought into the

483
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: hit and run story. So she set up a gofund

484
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: me account to raise money to do an independent exhimation

485
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: and autopsy of Stephen Smith eight years after the fact.

486
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,479
Speaker 1: Now we're at that word exhimation. I've heard the word before,

487
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: but I cannot imagine eight years after the fact, what

488
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: we would expect to determine from the body of Stephen Smith.

489
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what it could bring forth at this point.

490
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: The thing I want to see them a zoom at

491
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: this point right now is the records. I want to

492
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: see them hire a board certified forensic pathologists first off,

493
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: Board certified, not someone that just says they're practicing forensic pathology.

494
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: There's a lot of those types that are out there.

495
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: I want somebody that's board certified forensic pathologist, that's got

496
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: years under their belt. It's hard to explain, and let

497
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: me try to compare it to some other medical practice.

498
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: Let's just say, for instance, you've got an individual who

499
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: is a brain surgeon. Okay, they've had to find his training,

500
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: they've gone through a residency, the whole nine yards, and

501
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: they deal with trauma perhaps, or they deal with some

502
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: type of masks that's related in the brain. They're going

503
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: to try to remove that. But then you've got an

504
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: odd case in neurosurgery where you've got somebody that has

505
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: an item that they've been impaled upon in their brain.

506
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: I want somebody that has a background in extricating things

507
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: from skulls that are piercing through brain. I just don't

508
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: want any neurosurgeon. Do you understand what I'm saying in

509
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: this particular case, if you're talking about a forensic pathologist,

510
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: I don't want just simply a board certified forensic pathologist.

511
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: I want somebody that has a lot of experience with eximations,

512
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: somebody that has looked at the dead this far down

513
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: the road after they have been buried, but before they

514
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: exhume Stephen Smith's body. I'm hoping that they can gather

515
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: all of the records associated with the initial autopsy. And

516
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm talking about everything, Dave, I'm talking about the autopsy report.

517
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: I'm talking about talks. I want to know what he

518
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: had in his system, very specifically, not just in qualitative

519
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: we say, yeah he had this in the system. No, no, no,

520
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: I want quantitative. I want to know exactly what you

521
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: found and in what amounts he had it in his system.

522
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: Here's the big thing. I won't see any X rays.

523
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: Most forensic pathology facilities are now equipped with portable X ray.

524
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: It's really old technology, something that everybody should have that's

525
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: doing autopsies. I want to see them give these radiographs

526
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: over to a consulting forensic pathologist and have them review everything.

527
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: Before they ever put shovel to dirt here now in

528
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: order to get his body exhumed. This is not a

529
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: light undertaking. This is something where you actually have to

530
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: get what's referred to as an order of exhimation. If

531
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: you did not have this legal gatekeeper in place, can

532
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: you imagine what a chaotic circumstance it would be everybody

533
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: that just suddenly got a notion to wanting to have

534
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: some grave cracked open. They could just go out and say, well,

535
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: I want mine great great grandfather's remains exhumed. I want

536
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: them brought back out so we can all take a look.

537
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: It'd be total chaos. So they have an order of exhimation,

538
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: and many times these are not granted. It's at the

539
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: judge's discretion. So the scene under South Carolina law, there

540
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: is actually a statute for this. They have to go

541
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: and treat for this. They have to say, listen, we

542
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: want this done. We're submitting the paperwork, and then the

543
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: judge will make the final ruling as to whether or

544
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: not an eximation is going to take place. Once exhimation

545
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: has taken place, are the order is given, they'll go

546
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: out and it's in reverse order. If the way they

547
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: bury somebody, they're going to have to take that top

548
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: layer of dirt off. If there is a slab on

549
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: top of the ground, if you're not familiar, concrete slab

550
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: just kind of sits there, it would have to be removed.

551
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: They'd have to dig down, get the dirt out from

552
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: beneath it, and then they get down to the vault.

553
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: If you've never been involved in eximations, which I've been

554
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: involved in a number of them over the course of

555
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: my career, once you get that top layer of dirt removed,

556
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: you get down to the vault. The vault is placed

557
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: in the ground. For those that have never seen this before,

558
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: you don't just dig a hole and place a casket

559
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: in the ground. It's not the way it works. You

560
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: dig the hole, which is in fact six feet deep,

561
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: and then you place this big concrete box in the ground,

562
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: and then the casket is actually lowered into the box.

563
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: You've seen people using the straps at burials, that sort

564
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: of thing. It goes down into the ground, straps are removed,

565
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: and then they put the cap. There's a cap that

566
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: goes on top of the vault. What you've got is

567
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: essentially a box in a box you've got the casket

568
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: contained the body inside of another box, which is the vault.

569
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: Vault is sealed covered with dirt. If there's a slapstone

570
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: that's placed there, it's placed, and then you have a

571
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: headstone that marks where the grave is. Some of the

572
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: things that you encounter along the way the water table

573
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: rising and falling. We're talking about the low Country day

574
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: and what does the low Country have. It's famous for water.

575
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that makes it so mysterious

576
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,959
Speaker 1: and beautiful. Along with that, you have a water table

577
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: that rises and falls many times that's dictated by the

578
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean that's just stones throw away. You get a

579
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: lot of rain down there. They have flooding, so if

580
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: you're in a non protected space like that, you'll get

581
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: seepage into the grave area and it will also get

582
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: into the vault. Ergo. If it gets into the vault,

583
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: it's sitting in there with the casket, and sometimes it's

584
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: a casket it's not high quality. You'll get water inside

585
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: the casket. So you've got the body just kind of

586
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: free floating inside of the casket. I don't know that

587
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: that's happened. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's as dry as

588
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: the day that they placed Steven Spen's body in the ground. However,

589
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: it's something that would not surprise me if it had happened.

590
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: And if that happens, then the remains inside are going

591
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: to be compromised greatly. You're going to have all kinds

592
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: of instant that occur with moisture. You'll have mold that

593
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: sets in. It can destroy clothing that might be there.

594
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: Not that the clothing that is contained therein would be

595
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: relevant to the case, but the clothing that the body

596
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: is dressed in would be super saturated with water, and

597
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: that's going to promote bacterial growth because when the water

598
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: comes in, it brings all the little microscopic nasties with

599
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: them that it introduces into that environment. So you're fighting that.

600
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: Not to mention just years I've actually participated in case

601
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: to Stay, I'll never forget. I had a case where

602
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: a guy was dressed in an all white suit, white tie,

603
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: white socks, white shoes, white vest, and he looked the

604
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: same as he did the day that he was put

605
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: in the ground twenty years earlier. He had a carnation

606
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: that they'd put in his lapel. The underlying white material

607
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: was stained red the carnation was dried, but you could

608
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: still appreciate he had a little bit of mold growing

609
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: on his face, but other than that, he was like

610
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: in pristine condition. That gives you an idea as to

611
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: how well this body was preserved. And when the bodies

612
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: are embalmed, they're there for a long time. If you've

613
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: ever wondered what it feels like when you tap a

614
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: body that has been embombed, that kind of has the

615
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: same texture as an overinflated leather basketball, That's the best

616
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: way I can describe. It doesn't have a foul odor.

617
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: It's got kind of a sickly sweet odor. I think

618
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: a lot of that comes along with the fluids that

619
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: they used to do that. Here's the problem with Stephen.

620
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was viewable. I would think

621
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: that as a result of the head trauma, he probably wasn't,

622
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: so his body would have been traumatized. And anytime a

623
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: body is traumatized, that is going to speed decomposition, even

624
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: in the face of embalming, so you're going to have

625
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: these kind of compromised areas relative to the tissue can't

626
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: be as well preserved. If a body is intact and

627
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: then embalmed. That's going to be a consideration here. I've

628
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: participated in exhimations that have actually taken place in barns.

629
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: I've gone to old funeral homes to examine bodies. As

630
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: a result of exhimations, his body has got to go

631
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: to a state of the art facility, top line photography,

632
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: top line X ray and imaging equipment. Someplaces actually have

633
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: ct Now. You want it well lit. You want to

634
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: have every instrument known to man that's at your disposal.

635
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: If you're the forensic pathologist and their team, you want

636
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: a really good photographer. You cannot do this haphazardly. You

637
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: can't just go to whatever location is convenient to do

638
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: the examination. We talked about the amount of money that

639
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: she had raised, that the gofund me had raised that amount.

640
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: The last calculation I heard was above sixty thousand. You're

641
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: well above what you would need in order to facilitate

642
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: this kind of examination. They're going to have to full

643
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: body X rays on Steven's body, Dave from the top

644
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: of his head to the soles of his feet. If

645
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: there's anything to be found, it's going to rest in

646
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: those areas. I'm very curious about the extremities. I'd like

647
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: to see what was going on with them with forensics.

648
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: As I always say, your negative findings are just as

649
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: important as your positive finding. An absence of trauma to

650
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: the legs and absence of ractures in the legs, you'll

651
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: be able to kind of check off the list that

652
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: he was not standing fully erect when he was struck

653
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: by this vehicle. If he wasn't standing fully erect when

654
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: he was struck by this vehicle, can you validate this

655
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: idea of a mirror strike? And if the mirror strike

656
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: is not part and parcel of this, then how did

657
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: he sustain the head trauma? How did he sustain the

658
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: injuries to his hands into his shoulder. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan,

659
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: and this his body backs