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Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, and welcome live from Denver International Airport, where

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Speaker 1: I am doing my best to make it back to

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis. It is the bottom of the seventh is

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Speaker 1: a two two ball game. The Cubs and Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: playing right now on Sunday at Baseball. You'll see this

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Speaker 1: episode slightly after what I'm sure you hope as the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals win. A good pictures tool for Shoda Emanaga and

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Speaker 1: Sunny Bray just a pair of solo or to run

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Speaker 1: homers the deciding sport, which is a great topic to

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Speaker 1: talk about because I'd like to talk about the starting rotation. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it, coming back from a bachelorette party.

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Speaker 1: You have not watched the last three games of Cardinals baseball,

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Speaker 1: have not really talked to people of an organization. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to win a lot of awards for presentation

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Speaker 1: here or just bear with me. I have my sunglasses

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Speaker 1: still on my head. I'm realizing it's eight pm. There's

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Speaker 1: no sun out still whatever to s roll with it.

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Speaker 1: Some podcast episodes we crushed, some which just kind of

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Speaker 1: get through. That's one of those. Let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: starting rotation because even though I wasn't watching the games.

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Speaker 1: I was, of course checking in on the box scores,

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Speaker 1: and a clear difference in Friday's win and Saturday's loss.

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Speaker 1: Friday's win six innings, a squirrels fall for Michael McGreevy,

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Speaker 1: Saturday's loss a short to start for undred Plante in

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Speaker 1: his career. The game was essentially over by the second inning,

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Speaker 1: and it just did not look good. Now this is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily excuse me, Oh good, my flight was delayed

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Speaker 1: for the eightieth time today. Doing great. It's fine, you guys.

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Speaker 1: This is beat writer travel. It is what it is.

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Speaker 1: When you look at the difference between Michael mcgreey Andret Pilante,

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Speaker 1: it's simple. It just comes down to execution. And we

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Speaker 1: have seen this story from the Cardinals rotation all year long,

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Speaker 1: especially in July, and we know essentially that July sunk

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Speaker 1: their season. This is a team that John Mozela said

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Speaker 1: on the ESPN broadcast tonight that comes make May. In June,

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Speaker 1: they were looking to add, they were maybe looking to

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Speaker 1: make a competitive second half. July more or less sunk

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Speaker 1: their season in terms of what to do with the

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Speaker 1: trade deadline. And that's why Ryan Helsley, Stephen Matts and

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Speaker 1: film Aton are no longer Cardinals. So what does this

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Speaker 1: mean for the starting rotation. Well, let's project what it's

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Speaker 1: going to look like in twenty twenty six. You have

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Speaker 1: four spots with Miles michaelis most likely not getting you know,

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Speaker 1: going to be a free agent. Have Sunny Gray, Matthew Liberator,

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Speaker 1: Michael McGreevey, Andre To Wante and who potentially Kyle Wahey

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Speaker 1: when Matthews wo he's ready, probably gonna have to do

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Speaker 1: a free agent signing just to get some depth. And

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Speaker 1: this concerns me because that above rotation, with the exception

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Speaker 1: of Sunny Gray, is one obviously incomplete, and two raises

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Speaker 1: the exact same number of concerns as this year and

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Speaker 1: last year and the year before.

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Speaker 2: Where's this one gonna miss?

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Speaker 1: Where is the stuff you simply cannot in this day

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Speaker 1: and age of Major League Baseball roll out of primary

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Speaker 1: pitch to contact staff and expect to give your team

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Speaker 1: it's best chance to win every day?

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Speaker 2: Does it work? Sometimes?

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Speaker 1: Yes, and pitchers like mcgreeby and Libby have shown that

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Speaker 1: this is not a one all, be all situation. But

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Speaker 1: to quote Allie Normal, you're playing with fire when your

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Speaker 1: entire rotation relies on the weak ground ball and essentially

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Speaker 1: getting lucky because you can shift your defense and play

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Speaker 1: sharing field to an extent however you like, but you

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Speaker 1: still run the risk of the very simple concept.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes balls that are hit get through. So Who's up?

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Speaker 1: Tk Robie would have been super exciting, but he underwent

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Speaker 1: Tommy john surgery or in August. Yes, William Doyle is

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Speaker 1: a huge step in the right direction. The Cardinals number

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Speaker 1: one pick in twenty twenty six. That's exactly the kind

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Speaker 1: of skill set that the Cardinals should be targeting. But

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Speaker 1: in terms of who the Cardinals have knocked down the

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Speaker 1: door right now in Triple A, there's no one. And

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Speaker 1: that's a huge concern, especially when you think about this concept.

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Speaker 1: What if the Cardinals don't bring back Sunny Gray in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, Sunny will be owed thirty five million

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Speaker 1: dollars next season, and that is a hefty price tag

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Speaker 1: to pay for an organization that is committing to downsizing

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Speaker 1: and is.

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Speaker 2: Most likely going to see their payroll decrease next year.

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Speaker 1: While Cardinals leadership has not exactly come out and said that,

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Speaker 1: I think we can all look at the direction of

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Speaker 1: the team. The trajectory of spending last year, how they

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Speaker 1: didn't spend it all, really the firm focus that they're

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Speaker 1: playing or putting into financing player development, and just come

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Speaker 1: to think that three to two now, Nolan Gorman singled,

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Speaker 1: just kind of think that this is not a pay

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Speaker 1: that's essentially going to allow for contracts like that. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course there's the note trade clause. Sunny Gray has

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Speaker 1: a full note trade clause and has shown no inclination

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Speaker 1: of looking to waive it. But it is an interesting

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Speaker 1: problem for the Cardinals to have. I love this deal

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Speaker 1: when the Cardinals made it in heading into twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: and I really loved it when Sunny Gray was making

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Speaker 1: ten million dollars in twenty twenty four, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was okay. This year with him making twenty five thirty

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Speaker 1: five million dollars for an ace pitcher for a club

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Speaker 1: looking to rebuild, is hefty, and I'm not sure the Cardinals'

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Speaker 1: ownership wants to pay that. I'm not sure if they

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Speaker 1: have a choice, not only because of the no trade clause,

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Speaker 1: but because there is simply nobody in Triple A right now.

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Speaker 1: There's zero Depp, and this is a bigger problem for

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Speaker 1: hein blue, him blue in the new front office. It's

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Speaker 1: not like the Cardinals have arms knocking on the door

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Speaker 1: ready for Triple A or ready for the majors.

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Speaker 2: They don't not even close.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if there's an injury and knock on Wood,

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Speaker 1: I don't know of anyone that could. Maybe you could

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Speaker 1: spot in that you feel comfortable about for the future.

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Speaker 1: Curtis Taylor could maybe do it. Aeron Wilkerson maybe, but

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Speaker 1: those aren't names that you're like, yeah, twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 1: let's get excited about. So that's the big question for

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Speaker 1: the off season, several of them. If the Cardinals will

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Speaker 1: keep sunny gray, but more or less, if you start

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Speaker 1: looking at what next year is going to look like,

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Speaker 1: it has to start with the rotation, and this rotation

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Speaker 1: has to have more swing and miss than it does

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if Ongar palante Is long term career

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Speaker 2: is as a starter.

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Speaker 1: I think he could be much more effective as a reliever,

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Speaker 1: though I do not fault the Cardinals for their experiment

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Speaker 1: with him this year.

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Speaker 2: Say, with my deliberatory you need to know what you

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Speaker 2: have in those guys.

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Speaker 1: But it's getting really hard every fifth day when Falante

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Speaker 1: takes them out to just know the hard contact is there.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't really give your chance or your team a

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Speaker 2: chance to win that you.

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Speaker 1: Have today the bottom of the seventh Sunny Grays will

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Speaker 1: again a lot of two earned runs over seven innings. Now,

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Speaker 1: so it sounds simple, guys, but you're only as good

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Speaker 1: as to start a pitching and the cardinal thing to

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Speaker 1: figure that out. All right, we'll be right back up.

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Speaker 3: That card's worth you buy your.

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Speaker 4: Junior Gold Refractor twenty twenty Bowman Chrome Auto because that sounds.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get into our Draft Kings player to

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Speaker 1: watch this upcoming series. The Cardinals will finished the homestand

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Speaker 1: with three games against the Rockies. In three games against

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Speaker 1: the New York Yankees, Paul Golschmid's coming to town. Yay,

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Speaker 1: let's hear about it. Here's where we're looking at a

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Speaker 1: DraftKings player spotlight. For me, it's Nolan Gorman and I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about Nolan Gorman the defense at third baseman, not

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Speaker 1: to be left handed hitter. It has not looked super

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Speaker 1: athletic for Gorman at the hot corner right now, and

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Speaker 1: I'll grant him some grace. It's been a very long

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Speaker 1: time since the Cardinals asked him to play a third

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Speaker 1: base consistently. But with Nolan Arnado on the aisle, and

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Speaker 1: definitely Gorman's going to get the bulk of the reps

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Speaker 1: at third base until he proves that he just simply

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Speaker 1: can't do it or isn't athletic an epty handle that position.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Nolan Arnado. An update

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Speaker 1: for him. He's traveled to roder Dean or what's left

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Speaker 1: of it. They're doing some major renovations at that complex

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Speaker 1: and he's working on a shoulder strengthening program that's going

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Speaker 1: to take probably the next seven days at this point

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Speaker 1: before resuming baseball activities. There is still no timetable for

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Speaker 1: his return, but I maintain that we will see him

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Speaker 1: again on the Cardinals uniform at some point this season,

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Speaker 1: maybe around September when rosters expand. But that part, it's

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Speaker 1: just simply my speculation. For Nolan Gorman, I mean, he

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Speaker 1: has to figure it out at the corner and the

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Speaker 1: third base has not looked really all that athletic. He

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Speaker 1: made an error today that should have gotten the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: out of the inning and instead resulted in a two

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Speaker 1: run home run from Matt Shaw.

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Speaker 2: It's the throwing.

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Speaker 1: I think that has been the biggest concern for him,

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Speaker 1: but it's also just all around. He doesn't look comfortable there.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I know he came up the Cardinals system

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Speaker 1: as a third base prospect. Again, the last time the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals asked him to play third base consistently was before

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Speaker 1: he debuted in the majors, so we'll cut him some

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Speaker 1: slack there, but I think it just has to be

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Speaker 1: so much better for Nolan Gorman. And when we asked

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Speaker 1: Alli Marmal about this in San Diego last weekend, he

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Speaker 1: said there has to be a commitment to the mobility

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Speaker 1: at the position, and he doesn't look super mobile there.

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Speaker 1: Now things could change. I think it's been a gradual

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Speaker 1: improvement each time. But the only way the Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: going to be able to play Nolan Gorman every day

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Speaker 1: and guarantee that consistent playing time like they want to

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Speaker 1: is that putting him at third base, because second base

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Speaker 1: is taken with Brendan Donovan and they have an option

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Speaker 1: in tom to Jc to play third if needed, where

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Speaker 1: I think he looks like the more athletic third basement,

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Speaker 1: but he on the list of priorities of playing time

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Speaker 1: is not yet at the level of Nolan Gorman, Jordan.

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Speaker 2: Walker, Largs mate bar those players.

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Speaker 1: So we are looking at Nolan Gorman third base defensively

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Speaker 1: proving over the next week or so, I get a

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Speaker 1: big test against the Rocky or not the Rockies, respectfully,

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Speaker 1: the Yankees for sure. The Yankees are a bit of

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Speaker 1: a free fall right now, so that will be an

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Speaker 1: interesting series, definitely at Bush Stadium. I don't have picks

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Speaker 1: for you right now because it is nine pm Central

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Speaker 1: Time on Sunday and we don't have the picks for Monday.

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Speaker 1: But Bernie and that will get you to get you

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Speaker 1: those picks for next week on our next episode. So

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm looking at this week. Nolan Gorman third

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Speaker 2: Check it out.

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Speaker 1: All right, again, this is a real short episode because

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Speaker 1: I don't really have much for you guys. It's funny

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Speaker 1: when you spend one day away from the team, it

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Speaker 1: feels like a week.

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Speaker 2: Three days.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I don't even know them anymore. So

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Speaker 1: looking forward to getting back to the stadium on Monday

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Speaker 1: with all my pals. One thing I am looking forward

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Speaker 1: to seeing, though, is how Matthew Libertor finishes his season.

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Speaker 1: I know we started this episode talking about pictures, we'll

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Speaker 1: end talking about pictures.

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Speaker 2: We know that the workload has.

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Speaker 1: Been kind of monitored over the second half because this

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Speaker 1: is his first full year as a major league starter,

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Speaker 1: and you want to just make sure you're monitoring those Indians,

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Speaker 1: and you're also monitoring the quality of those Indians. Lyvia

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Speaker 1: hasn't thrown a ton of high rest frames, which is good.

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Speaker 1: It's ultimately a testament tell effective he's been. But finishing

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Speaker 1: strong this season and knowing that he might be under

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of a I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say a pitch count, but a pitch regulation. That's going

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Speaker 1: to be important. And because Livy is going to be

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Speaker 1: such a central piece in next year's rotation, I do

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Speaker 1: not think, well, we don't know what Haim Bloom is

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Speaker 1: going to look like, and the Cardinals can certainly trade

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Speaker 1: for starting pitching. That seems to be the most likely

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Speaker 1: cause they're going to go out and build an entire

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Speaker 1: rotation from scratch. Guys like Matthew Libertor, Guys like Michael

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Speaker 1: mcgreeby are going to have to pick.

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Speaker 2: Up the slack next year.

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Speaker 1: So this is a good test for Livy to see

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Speaker 1: where he can end the season and how he's going

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Speaker 1: to prep for next year. I think he's a serviceable

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Speaker 1: middle of the rotation starter. The Cardinals, though, they need

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Speaker 1: to develop an ace and maybe that's where Liam Doyle

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Speaker 1: comes in. And I don't like to prospect type. I

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Speaker 1: think being a top prospect in Major League Baseball right

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Speaker 1: now as as hard as as ever been because the

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Speaker 1: evaluations are everywhere. But Liam Doyle the skill set, the velo,

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Speaker 1: the delivery, the demeanor that screams ace potential to me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure the Cardinals will assign him to amin

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Speaker 1: leage affiliate very soon. They are going to have him

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Speaker 1: start playing, start pitching, to finish the season, making a

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Speaker 1: couple of appearances down in the lower levels of the

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Speaker 1: minor leagues.

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Speaker 2: But we talked about this when he was drafted. He

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Speaker 2: has that pathway of a.

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Speaker 1: Chase ferms of a Paul schemes to exedite his way

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Speaker 1: to the major leagues. And I you know, in a

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Speaker 1: perfect world was Leam Doyle they viewed sometime in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six and become the media ace.

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Speaker 2: I mean, helly, yeah, I think the Cardinals are taking

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Speaker 2: that immediately. Who wouldn't. Is that the most reliable or

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Speaker 2: logistics scenario. No, developing takes time, and teams that are

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Speaker 2: developing for pitching, it should be on the player's timeline,

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Speaker 2: not the team's need. And that's something the Cardinals. That's

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Speaker 2: a really good sentence that's going in a story. I

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Speaker 2: think that sometimes the Cardinals have, especially over the last

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Speaker 2: three or four years, really dropped the ball in that department.

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Speaker 2: We have seen it from take your pick, whether it's

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Speaker 2: Plante or Libertor or Zach Thompson or any of their

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Speaker 2: pitchers McGreevy. Up until this year, it's been all about

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Speaker 2: what the team needs at the major league level and

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Speaker 2: not about what's best for the player.

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Speaker 1: And when you're developing starting pitching for Ticklarly, that is

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Speaker 1: absolutely the worst way you can go about it. So

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Speaker 1: there has been a cognizant effort from rob'sortfolio and from

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Speaker 1: Director of Pitching Matt Pierpont to start making those changes now.

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Speaker 1: And these changes are going to take years to actually

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Speaker 1: see in the big leaks, but it is so important

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Speaker 1: that's happening before him Bloom fully takes over, because the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals are going to have to completely revamp their mind

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Speaker 1: like system.

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Speaker 2: We know that they're off to a good start.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to be able to share more of that

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Speaker 1: because I think the Cardinals are doing some really good

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Speaker 1: scenes behind this are really good things behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: but when you're looking at developing pitching and for the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals to be true contenders in the NL Central. Again,

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Speaker 1: it all goes back to your rotation, and they seem

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Speaker 1: to be pretty far away in generating home grown rotation

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Speaker 1: that has swing and myss that has below, that has

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Speaker 1: stuff and isn't just the rotation that was successful about

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Speaker 1: ten years ago. Some housekeeping, you can visit the Cardinal

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Speaker 1: Territory shop dot com for first look at your new merch.

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Speaker 2: We have hats now, so I'm really excited. Go buy

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Speaker 2: a hat. Make me happy.

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Speaker 1: And again, as soon as you get to find out

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Speaker 1: of the subscribers are so so close, we'll do a

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Speaker 1: giveaway for you.

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Speaker 2: Guys. Saw a couple of requests for player interviews. Let

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Speaker 2: me know.

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Speaker 1: We have seven is weeks left of the season, so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try to get as many player interviews

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Speaker 1: as possible. I know we had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a break in those over July, just the trade deadline stuff,

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Speaker 1: but excited to ramp that back up. We'll have Bernie

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Speaker 1: back with you next week and I'm so close to

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Speaker 1: finalizing which should be a fun one. If you like

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Speaker 1: the twenty eleven team, you will like this podcast, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: send me your ideas, any questions you have about the team,

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Speaker 1: any trends you like, men Expoor you can hit me

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Speaker 1: here on YouTube, on Apple, on Spotify, or on the Athletic.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back to normal on Monday. Thanks, as always

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Speaker 1: for watching