1
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:08,800
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,440
Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

3
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick. And today's movie on Weird

4
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 3: House is the nineteen fifty three three D horror film

5
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,760
Speaker 3: The Maze, directed by William Cameron Menzies. I had never

6
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 3: seen this before this week, and I first became aware

7
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,920
Speaker 3: of it back when we were doing our three Weeks

8
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,080
Speaker 3: of three D series. How long ago was that now,

9
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,520
Speaker 3: I guess it was a few months ago.

10
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I'm sometime in months weeks. It's hard to say.

11
00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,839
Speaker 2: Time passes strangely in the digital realm, but yeah, we

12
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,320
Speaker 2: were looking at different three D pictures and you know,

13
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 2: a lot of them did come. We had certain boom

14
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 2: periods for three D, and nineteen fifty three was definitely

15
00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 2: one of those years.

16
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely the same year as Vincent Price's House of Wax.

17
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 2: Same year as Oh Our Friend, the Guerrilla Robot.

18
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 3: Oh Robot Monster. Nineteen fifty three.

19
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was a big year for three D pictures,

20
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,400
Speaker 2: and we've been into a number of nineteen fifties films

21
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,400
Speaker 2: in general this year.

22
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 3: So The Maze ended up on my list of movies

23
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,240
Speaker 3: for that we ended up not picking it with some

24
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 3: other options, but it came to mind again for me

25
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,399
Speaker 3: a week or two back when a friend of mine

26
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,959
Speaker 3: was over at the house. He wanted to show me

27
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 3: a movie, and the one he picked was another film

28
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,679
Speaker 3: by the same director, by William Cameron. Mindsy's a film

29
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 3: released in nineteen fifty three, so the same year as

30
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 3: the one we're talking about today, but called Invaders from Mars, which,

31
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,920
Speaker 3: according to a book called Saucer Movies, The Euphological History

32
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 3: of the Cinema by Paul Mehan, it was the first

33
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 3: full length movie ever to show aliens and their flying

34
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 3: saucers in color. I think it just beat out the

35
00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,920
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty three release of War the World, which I

36
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 3: think was intentional. They were sort of like trying to

37
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 3: get it out before War the World's now. We'll talk

38
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 3: a bit more about this director when we get into

39
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 3: the connections part of the episode, but I'll just say

40
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 3: Invaders from Mars is very interesting in that while a

41
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 3: lot of the movie is, you know, stuff we know

42
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,399
Speaker 3: very well from this period, stock footage of military vehicles

43
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,720
Speaker 3: driving around ooh, thrilling, and there's plenty of fifties cheeseball

44
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 3: alien schlock in it, there are actually some very frightening

45
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 3: moments and images, And I know this movie stuck with

46
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 3: a lot of people who would go on to become

47
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,360
Speaker 3: film directors in later decades. In the seventies and eighties,

48
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,679
Speaker 3: they like harkened back to seeing Invaders from Mars when

49
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 3: they were little kids and being deeply frightened by it

50
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 3: by certain memorable images, so much so that Toby Hooper

51
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 3: ended up remaking Invaders from Mars in the eighties, And

52
00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 3: I know there are other directors who have cited it

53
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 3: as like a movie that really scared them when they

54
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 3: were young.

55
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 2: I never saw the original, but I have seen parts

56
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 2: of Tobe Hooper's remake on TV back in the day.

57
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,079
Speaker 3: Well, something I thought was interesting about Invaders from Mars

58
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,239
Speaker 3: was that of these actually very frightening moments and images,

59
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff that works best in the

60
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 3: movie is very set focused. It depends on specific sets

61
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,400
Speaker 3: to the extent that I would I say that I

62
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 3: really get the feeling that William Cameron Mendsay's is a

63
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 3: sets guy. There's one that really sticks in my mind

64
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 3: from Invaders, which is an indoor for outdoor set of

65
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 3: the main character is like a little boy and aliens

66
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 3: from mars Land in his backyard, and he starts figuring

67
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 3: out what's going on as they sort of start pod peopling,

68
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 3: you know, replacing people with alien drones that look just

69
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 3: like them. He watches out his window as this alien

70
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 3: ship comes down in his backyard. And so the backyard

71
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,680
Speaker 3: is a sort of eerie looking hilltop with a path

72
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 3: leading over it and a few trees in a wooden fence,

73
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 3: And we repeatedly in that movie see characters venture down

74
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 3: the path over the top of the hill and just disappear,

75
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 3: which we later learn is because they are being sucked

76
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 3: down through a patch of Martian quicksand which Minsias shows

77
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,280
Speaker 3: filling itself back in after it has consumed an earthling

78
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 3: with a reverse footage effect. And I think that part

79
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:32,280
Speaker 3: is actually highly effective, especially when paired with that unsettling

80
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:33,559
Speaker 3: indoor for outdoor set.

81
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 2: I think I know what you mean. And this ties

82
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,599
Speaker 2: into a lot of the indoor for outdoor sets that

83
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,599
Speaker 2: we've talked about before, where if it's done well, if

84
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 2: it's done right, it feels uncanny. It feels like it

85
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like a completely artificial environment, but it feels

86
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 2: like an environment on another planet.

87
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 3: Longtime listeners may be tired of hearing me say this

88
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 3: because I bring it up a lot, but I really

89
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,039
Speaker 3: do love a good indoor for outdoor set, like some

90
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 3: trees on a set and a painted background that I

91
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 3: don't know when it's good. That really really makes a

92
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 3: movie go next level for me. But anyway, so, having

93
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,280
Speaker 3: recently seen that movie from the same director, I was

94
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 3: curious to see this one the Maze because it was

95
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,039
Speaker 3: released the same year as Invaders from Mars, and it

96
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 3: was just kind of waiting there in the back of

97
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,359
Speaker 3: my mind. The only other thing I knew about this movie,

98
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,720
Speaker 3: besides it having the same director as the one I'd

99
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,600
Speaker 3: seen recently, was that it is famous for having an

100
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:30,800
Speaker 3: absolutely bizarre twist ending that is either horrifying or hilarious,

101
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,919
Speaker 3: or maybe both, depending on who you ask.

102
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to look this up in the Psychotronic

103
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,600
Speaker 2: Encyclopedia film, and Michael Weldon first of all praises the

104
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,800
Speaker 2: set designs and then refers to quote the most unusual

105
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,480
Speaker 2: ending you'll ever witness. And of course this is coming

106
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 2: from a guy who lived in breathed weird movies, So

107
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,559
Speaker 2: that's always an intriguing sign.

108
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you judge the weirdness of an

109
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,440
Speaker 3: ending by contrast, and I would say, if you're thinking

110
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,080
Speaker 3: of I don't know, David Cronenberg movies, this is not

111
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 3: the weirdest ending you'll ever see, but it might be

112
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,320
Speaker 3: the weirdest ending I've ever seen in contrast to the

113
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 3: to the energy of the rest of the film beforehand.

114
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And then you know, in general, most movies

115
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 2: don't have this ending, yeah, though it would be interesting

116
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 2: if they did. And I guess the challenge here with

117
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 2: all of this is we are not going to spoil

118
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 2: what makes this ending special yet. We'll get to it,

119
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 2: but we'll give you a nice warning when we get

120
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 2: into that territory. But like, this is a film that

121
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,720
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would not check out

122
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 2: unless you are maybe a fifties completest or three D

123
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,680
Speaker 2: cinema completest. That's probably more likely. But knowing that the

124
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,800
Speaker 2: ending is special, well you might push forward. And so yeah,

125
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 2: I would encourage you to do so if that's what

126
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 2: you're you're in the game for, like a nice weird

127
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,159
Speaker 2: ending that really kind of comes out of left field.

128
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 3: It's to the point that and we're gonna play the

129
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 3: trailer for you, because this trailer is, I say, a

130
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 3: top ten fifties trailer for me. It's really good. It's

131
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,160
Speaker 3: one of those where they talk directly to the audience.

132
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:07,800
Speaker 3: So Rob, I know you were comparing it to the

133
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 3: trailer for Mad Love, kind of reminded me of like

134
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,080
Speaker 3: William Castle or The Mask, where somebody is like the

135
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 3: film you're about to see is one of the most

136
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 3: horrifying things. Now I will say about the movie itself.

137
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 3: While I greatly enjoyed it, especially considering the ending, I

138
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 3: do have to say I think a real demerit of

139
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 3: this film is that, even at eighty minutes, it feels

140
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 3: somewhat padded out. And we have discussed films before that

141
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 3: feel like this could have been a twenty something minute

142
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 3: Twilight Zone episode but was padded out to feature film length,

143
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 3: and I think this might well be an example of

144
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 3: that category. Throughout the middle of the movie, there are

145
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,960
Speaker 3: multiple times we get like a long sequence where a

146
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 3: characters are discussing what they're about to do and then

147
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 3: we see them do it, and we could have just

148
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 3: seen them do it, and even what they're planning on

149
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 3: doing is not especially riveting plot material. It's like, aunt Edith,

150
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 3: I'm going to say that you have a cold, which

151
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 3: means we can't leave the castle, and then they'll have

152
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 3: to let us stay and discover the secret of the maze,

153
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,680
Speaker 3: and then we see them do what they just talked about,

154
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 3: So you know, not and not When I when I

155
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 3: say see with them do what they just talked about,

156
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 3: I don't mean discover the secret of the maze, I

157
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 3: mean deliver the excuse about aunt Edith's cold.

158
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean also aunt Edith and more in particular

159
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 2: what is it Kitty? There there are protagonists, they are

160
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 2: main investigators, and there comes a point in the in

161
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 2: the plot where okay, we're gonna have like six additional

162
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,280
Speaker 2: people added to this plot to help investigate, and it's

163
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 2: totally unnecessary, Like you could have built up to that

164
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 2: big reveal, You could have gotten there a lot faster

165
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,319
Speaker 2: without all these additional people just kind of muddying things up.

166
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 3: I will say, though, once all the friends arrive at

167
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 3: the castle, the movie becomes significantly funnier. Yes, yeah, because Bert,

168
00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 3: the doctor they invite is uh, he's a character.

169
00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 2: Is birth the one with a gun. Yeah.

170
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, he came to examine his friend for you know,

171
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,199
Speaker 3: medical conditions, but happened to bring a revolver.

172
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, I know this guy, so I agree

173
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,599
Speaker 2: with you. Yeah, it's a slow build. I think it

174
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 2: could have benefited from trimming maybe like twenty minutes off

175
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, it could have been either a much

176
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 2: shorter feature or a horror anthology episode. Yeah, but it's

177
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 2: worth it's worth still worth pushing through to get to

178
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,200
Speaker 2: this ending. But if you didn't know there was a

179
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 2: treat at the end, you might easily bail out, you know,

180
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,959
Speaker 2: half an hour into this picture. Yeah, all right, Joe,

181
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,559
Speaker 2: do you have an elevator pitch for the Maze?

182
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,320
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I started writing an elevator pitch just

183
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,600
Speaker 3: based around spoiling the ending, But I think we're not

184
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 3: going to do that, are we. We're not going to

185
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,840
Speaker 3: do that until later in this episode. We'll give you

186
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,080
Speaker 3: a chance to bail out if you'd rather not know

187
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 3: ahead of time.

188
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we will spoil the hell out of it.

189
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 2: It's going to be a grand old time.

190
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 3: Okay, So instead I'll do the traditional movie set up

191
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 3: elevator pitch. East fiance, Gerald, is heir to the estate

192
00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,720
Speaker 3: of Craven Castle in Scotland. Just two weeks before their wedding,

193
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 3: he is summoned to Craven with no warning, only to

194
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 3: then cease all contact with his beloved. Will she find

195
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,080
Speaker 3: him again and reclaim their love or will a terrible

196
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 3: family secret destroy them all?

197
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,559
Speaker 2: All right, sounds intriguing. Well, let's get the trailer audio

198
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,840
Speaker 2: experience here, and like you said, Joe, this one's a

199
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 2: real treat.

200
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,560
Speaker 4: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Richard Carlson.

201
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 5: If I look somewhat older and more drawn than I

202
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,640
Speaker 5: have in my recent pictures, it's because of the harrowing

203
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 5: experiences I've been having here in the Maze. The Maze

204
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,840
Speaker 5: is the first picture in three dimension that delves into

205
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,079
Speaker 5: the weird and terrifying world of the supernatural. If you're

206
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 5: familiar with the exciting effects that can be achieved with

207
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,840
Speaker 5: three D, you can imagine what happens when something from

208
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,840
Speaker 5: the great beyond reaches right out of the screen to

209
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,080
Speaker 5: clutch at you. On one more thing, after you've seen

210
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 5: The Maze, please don't reveal to your friends the secret

211
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 5: of its story or its startling climax. Because you see,

212
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:49,559
Speaker 5: we think the Maze will amaze you.

213
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,000
Speaker 4: What fearful secret was hidden from the world for two

214
00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 4: hundred years? Why was every door in Craven Castle locked

215
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,920
Speaker 4: at night? I went to your room and I saw something,

216
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 4: something horrible. It was the most horrible thing I've ever seen.

217
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,439
Speaker 4: It was your imagination, something alive.

218
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 5: I saw it move.

219
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 4: The terrifying story that startled the world comes to the

220
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:40,559
Speaker 4: screen in three dimensions.

221
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 3: Hello, I'm actor Richard Carlson. You might remember me from

222
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 3: films when I did not appear to be at the

223
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 3: very moment of death. Well that's all in the past.

224
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,199
Speaker 3: I am now morbidly wizened and my blood has turned

225
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,079
Speaker 3: to an ashen vapor as a result of my participation

226
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:57,000
Speaker 3: in this film.

227
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:03,440
Speaker 2: We think the Maze will amaze you. Perfect, absolutely perfect. God.

228
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 3: Can you imagine the people groaning in the theaters when

229
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 3: they hear that.

230
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it was in a different reception

231
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 2: back then they had been like, Hey, that's clever, this

232
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:15,440
Speaker 2: movie looks clever.

233
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,800
Speaker 3: I almost, without no pun intended, said, that is amazing

234
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:26,080
Speaker 3: word play.

235
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 2: All right, if you want to dive in and experience

236
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 2: the maze for yourself, before we proceed through and start

237
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,360
Speaker 2: talking about the rest of the plot and the people

238
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 2: involved in it. Well, it is available on DVD and

239
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,160
Speaker 2: Blu Ray, and it was released on three D Blu

240
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,720
Speaker 2: Ray for those of you who still have that technology

241
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 2: or have access to a time machine to go back

242
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,560
Speaker 2: into the most recent home three D boom and get

243
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 2: a taste of that. I'm not sure this one is

244
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 2: available for like legitimate streaming out there anywhere, but all

245
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 2: that changes, you know, month to month. Almost if you

246
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 2: look around, you might be able to find a stream

247
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:01,600
Speaker 2: of it.

248
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,920
Speaker 3: This is yet another one that we did not get

249
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 3: to see in three D.

250
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can still recognize those scenes, and we'll

251
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,440
Speaker 2: talk about those scenes where it's like, yep, these are

252
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 2: the three D scenes. Put your glasses on.

253
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 3: Now, Okay, so we talked about connections.

254
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, or we're going to start right here at the

255
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 2: top with director slash production designer William Cameron Menzies, who

256
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 2: we've we've been alluding to a little bit already. You know,

257
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 2: something of a legend in this area of production design,

258
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 2: though I don't know that i'd ever actually seen a

259
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,960
Speaker 2: film in its entirety that he worked on.

260
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,160
Speaker 3: Same here apart from Invaders from Mars. I have in

261
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 3: part seen his famous H. G. Wells adaptation Things to Come,

262
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 3: which I know we're going to have to watch for

263
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 3: a weird House one day.

264
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 2: So. Menzies was born in eighteen ninety six died in

265
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven. He was an American filmmaker, best known

266
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,200
Speaker 2: for his contributions as a production designer. In fact, Menzies

267
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 2: apparently invent the title production designer and his credits in

268
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,400
Speaker 2: this area, which is also like art direction. I believe

269
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 2: it was often referred to. This goes back to the

270
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 2: silent era, and he has some extremely impressive credentials from

271
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,560
Speaker 2: that era, the lavish silent swashbuckler from nineteen twenty four,

272
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 2: The Thief of Bagdad. That one starred Douglas Fairbanks and

273
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 2: also featured Anime Wong in a supporting role, and then

274
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 2: a much later in his career, or a good bit

275
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 2: later in his career, nineteen thirty nine, is Gone with

276
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 2: the Wind. He also was involved in that lavish production

277
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 2: design on that picture. As far as directing, he directed

278
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 2: fifteen films and served as production designer on several of them.

279
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 2: I mean I think most of them, and these include

280
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,479
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two's Chandu the Magician. This one had cinematography

281
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 2: by James Wong Howell, who we've discussed in the show before.

282
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 2: Nineteen thirty six is Things to Come, which you mentioned already,

283
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,120
Speaker 2: and fifty threes Invaders from Mars, which you recently watched.

284
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting. I feel I would like to

285
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 3: know more about how he thought of his own role

286
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 3: as a director in his own film career, because you

287
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 3: mentioned that he invented the title production designer. If you

288
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 3: look at the credits at the beginning of the Maze,

289
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 3: you might notice that he is He lists himself as

290
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,720
Speaker 3: a production designed and directed by William Cameron Mendsies. First,

291
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 3: first thing there is production designed.

292
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is where he really made a

293
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 2: name for himself. But then you know, it gets into

294
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 2: directing of pictures as well. I was reading The Tragedy

295
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 2: of Three D Cinema by Rick Mitchell from two thousand

296
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 2: and four, and this is a fun article worth checking

297
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: out if you're disinterested in the three D booma general.

298
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 2: It's not a long article. You can find it on

299
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 2: Jay Store and he's going he talks about like the

300
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 2: different booms in three D and what different studios were

301
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 2: doing project wise to try and capitalize in that boom,

302
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 2: and with a nineteen fifty three three D boom, this

303
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 2: was one of the independent entries into the three D pool.

304
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 2: This is allied Artist slash Monogram. And while the film

305
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: itself is you know what it is, it's nobody's top

306
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 2: three D picture, it's nobody's top nineteen fifty three picture,

307
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,360
Speaker 2: he does say the following quote. Mensi's approach to camera placement, composition,

308
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,639
Speaker 2: and lighting were especially suited to three D, and in

309
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,360
Speaker 2: many ways the Maze is a textbook example of how

310
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 2: to shoot a three D film, and he ultimately contends

311
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,439
Speaker 2: to that as a director, Mensie's never really had the

312
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,640
Speaker 2: chance to work with a script that was truly deserving

313
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 2: of his talents. So, you know, far more technically proficient,

314
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 2: and you know, the skilled when it came to the

315
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 2: visual and the artistic design of a picture. But you know,

316
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 2: as he worked his way up into the director's chair,

317
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 2: he perhaps never really had that perfect script to bring

318
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 2: to life.

319
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 3: That does seem true based on my experience, though I

320
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 3: guess I would reserve judgment on that until I've seen

321
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 3: things to come, which seems a more ambitious project in

322
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 3: terms of storytelling than the two moves I have seen.

323
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he did. You know again, he was highly

324
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 2: thought of when it came to production design or the

325
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,080
Speaker 2: art design on these various pictures. Now, Minsi's was nominated

326
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 2: for four Oscars three Best Art Direction nominations in nineteen thirty,

327
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: two of them in nineteen twenty nine. And fun fact,

328
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 2: there were two Oscar ceremonies in nineteen thirty, so these

329
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 2: awards are spread out across three different Academy Awards ceremonies

330
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 2: in the space of two years. Okay, yeah, it gets

331
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 2: kind of weird when you start looking back at like

332
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 2: early Oscars history, you know, because they didn't even start

333
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,480
Speaker 2: told what twenty nine. So anyway, he did win one

334
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 2: of these. It was for a film in twenty nine

335
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 2: titled The Dove, and then later on he got an

336
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: Honorary Award for his work on Gone with the Wind.

337
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,360
Speaker 2: All right. The screenplay on this one was written by

338
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 2: Daniel b Olman or as an adapted screenplay. Rather. He

339
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 2: lived nineteen eighteen through nineteen seventy nine. His other screenplays

340
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,359
Speaker 2: include nineteen sixty one's Mysterious Island That Start a Giant

341
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,959
Speaker 2: crab as well as various action, western and suspense films.

342
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 3: There aren't as many giant crab movies as you would think.

343
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:17,880
Speaker 3: That's one of them.

344
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one stands out. It's a good looking crab.

345
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 2: Now I said it was an adapted screenplay. It is

346
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 2: based on a novel, a novel by Maurice Sandawz, who

347
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,360
Speaker 2: lived eighteen ninety two through nineteen fifty eight, a Swiss

348
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 2: author and composer who apparently earned a PhD in chemistry

349
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 2: but chose to devote his life to art instead of science.

350
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 2: His books I've read often venture into surreal and horrific territory,

351
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, dipping into some of that, you know,

352
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 2: the energy of sort of the weird tales, weird fiction era.

353
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 2: His nineteen forty five novel The Maze is the basis

354
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,919
Speaker 2: for this film and is apparently a key example of

355
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: these interests. The novel has a largely gothic horror eye

356
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: by understand, but also has this highly weird twist at

357
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 2: the end. The surrealist artist Salvador Dali actually illustrated an

358
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 2: edition of this novel. You can find various booksellers online

359
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 2: selling this illustrated volume it seems to be a pretty

360
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 2: hot item among book collectors. I couldn't get a hit

361
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: my hands on a copy of it, or at least

362
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be going to be able to get one

363
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: in time for this episode. But you can find various

364
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 2: examples of selfador Dolly's illustrations from the novel, and they're

365
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 2: really strange looking, as you might well imagine. There's one

366
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 2: in particular of this kind of almost mushroom headed looking figure,

367
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: and it's one of these images where you can look

368
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 2: at it either right side up or upside down. One

369
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 2: way it's this strange figure, and the other ways it's

370
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 2: clearly supposed to be the castle from the book.

371
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 3: So what is the guy's head at the bottom when

372
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 3: it's upside down?

373
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. I's like that part, doesn't I guess

374
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: translate so much into something something different, or does it?

375
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.

376
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 3: It's like a big potato in a bowl when it's

377
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: upside down.

378
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,479
Speaker 2: M we may have to come back to this figuring

379
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: this out once we get to the end of the

380
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 2: end of the picture. But anyway, Sandoz has some other works.

381
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: He wrote a novel called The House Without Windows, from

382
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty that has a futuristic house in it that

383
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: apparently has a lot of things we just kind of

384
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 2: take for granted as part of a house these days.

385
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: And he also wrote various plays and short stories.

386
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 3: Okay, is it time to talk about our Troy McClure

387
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 3: for this film.

388
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 2: Yes, playing Gerald mcteam. We have Richard Garlson, who lived

389
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: nineteen twelve through nineteen seventy seven, actor of stage, screen

390
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 2: and TV, as well as eventually a director and screenwriter.

391
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: He was an established lead actor in the late thirties

392
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: and early forties, but then, of course, then came World

393
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: War Two. He serves in World War Two in the

394
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: US Navy, and afterwards he has a little harder time

395
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 2: getting those lead roles again, so he has to turn

396
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 2: to screenwriting as a way to fill in the gaps.

397
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 2: And it also meant that he dipped more into sci

398
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 2: fi in horror films. You know, he'd kind of like,

399
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 2: you know, fallen down the ladder. I guess a bit

400
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 2: in Hollywood. But as is often the case, these might

401
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 2: not have been necessarily the most sought after projects of

402
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 2: the day, but some of them are the projects that

403
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: stood the test of time, because two of them, in particular,

404
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: were directed by Jack Arnold. Nineteen fifty threes It Came

405
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: from Outer Space and nineteen fifty four's Creature from the

406
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 2: Black Lagoon.

407
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,719
Speaker 3: Oh, who is he in Creature from the Black Lagoon.

408
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 2: He's the human guy who's not Richard Dinning.

409
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: Okay, he's the human guy who is not the guy

410
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 3: from Creature with the Adam Brain.

411
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, it seems at times like we're sort of

412
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 2: navigating our way around Creature from the Black Lagoon. We're

413
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: covering various people involved in it, but not the film itself.

414
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if that means we're supposed to stay

415
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: out of the Black Lagoon or if we need to

416
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: venture into it eventually.

417
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 3: Let's see, we did Tarantula, which was that directed by

418
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 3: Jack Arnold, same I believe, So yeah, okay, same director

419
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: as Creature. Then we did Creature with the Adam Brain,

420
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 3: which has Denning, though Dick Cutting is not in Creature,

421
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: is it is he?

422
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 4: No?

423
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

424
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 3: That was the one thing Creature needed to really make

425
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 3: it perfect. It's like a news story segment from Dick Cutting.

426
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, Rid Richard Carlson is I think he's a scientist, right,

427
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: He's one of the scientists who goes to the Black

428
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 2: Lagoon and surprise finds the creature from the Black Lagoon

429
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: and then realize, we've got to do something about this creature.

430
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 3: We got to shoot at him.

431
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: Anyway. Carlson was also in nineteen fifty three Is the

432
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: Magnetic Monster nineteen sixties, Tormented in nineteen sixty Eight's The Power. YEA,

433
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: what can you say? I mean, it's I guess it's

434
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: a solid leading performance that you can't help but wonder

435
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 2: what a weirder character actor might have done in his place,

436
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: given where the plot eventually goes. But at the same time,

437
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 2: I was trying to think, I was thought thought on

438
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: this a little bit like I don't even know who

439
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 2: I would suggest, like the fifties were such a square

440
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 2: time for so many of these actors, Like who who

441
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: else could they have possibly put right there in the

442
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: starring role in this picture? And someone who had have

443
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: been able to maybe lean into the strangeness of this

444
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 2: character as we see him for most of the picture.

445
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 3: Oh, I was wondering if you were going to say

446
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 3: it should have been Vincent Price in this role.

447
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess. Yeah, I mean it would have.

448
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,719
Speaker 2: It would have been an alteration of the Vincent Price trajectory.

449
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean Price definitely could have done I

450
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: mean Price, and now that I think about it, yeah,

451
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: Price would have been perfect, knowing what we know now,

452
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: because he could do those leading role types to you know,

453
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: those square type characters, but has these deep reservoirs of

454
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: weirdness that you know, made him an icon of horrors.

455
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, it would have been interesting to see what

456
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: someone like Price could have done with this role.

457
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: But I'm in some jokes. I don't mean to rag

458
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 3: on Carlson too much in this. I think he is

459
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: doing what is asked of him.

460
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does a fine job. You can't really criticize

461
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: anything about his performance, even if with modern sensibilities, especially you,

462
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: or even the sensibilities of later decades, you might wonder

463
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 2: what else could have been? Yeah, yeah, but really, our

464
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: two lead characters are Kitty Murray and her aunt Edith Murray.

465
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: Our Holmes and Watson of the.

466
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Kitty Murray is our Holmes, I guess, or

467
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 2: she the Watson. I guess it depends how you look

468
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 2: at it.

469
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: I think she's the Holmes I think aunt I think

470
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: Aunt Edith is the Watson, okay, because she's the narrator.

471
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: Also, that's true. That's true. Yeah, like Watson. So Kitty

472
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 2: Murray is played by Veronica Hurst, who lived nineteen thirty

473
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: one through twenty twenty two British film, stage and television actress.

474
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 2: This is one of her best remembered roles, though she

475
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: also had a role in the nineteen sixties psychological horror

476
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: film Peeping Tom, as well as a nineteen sixty five

477
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: Bond knockoff titled Licensed to Kill starring Tom Adams.

478
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 3: Well, what had the Bond Corporation not not trademarked License

479
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 3: to Kill?

480
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 2: Yet? I'm not sure this was not a This was

481
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: not a Bond knockoff or like a non canon Bond

482
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: film that I was familiar with. But you know, there

483
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: were very there are things like Operation Kid Brother and

484
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: you know, obviously in later decades, so it makes sense

485
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: or ill guest, maybe this is the same decade. But

486
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: at any rate, Veronica Hurst, I think she's great in this,

487
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: you know, beautiful Town. It doesn't feign as much as

488
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: Aunt Edith. You know, this character is not like Ellen

489
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: Ripley or anything, but she's still, you know, highly capable

490
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 2: and brave and wants to get to the truth of

491
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: the matter.

492
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: The entire plot centers around her being unbelievably pushy. The

493
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 3: whole movie is just people telling her, no, you can't

494
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: do that, and she's like, shut up, I'm doing it.

495
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with her the whole time, except when she's fainting.

496
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: Is Aunt Edith played by Catherine Emery lived nineteen oh

497
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 2: six through nineteen eighty. She acted in the nineteen forty

498
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: five Boris Karloff film Isle of the Dead, various other pictures.

499
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: This was her final film. However, I like her. She's

500
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: the furrowed eyebrow of the film. She's there to be,

501
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: you know, like Kitty comes and tells her, Oh, Aunt Edith,

502
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 2: I found a secret passageway that's full of killer bats.

503
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: You know, come with me, We'll go up the stairs,

504
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 2: and and Edith's like, no, I would prefer not to.

505
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: I want to go back to bed. Yeah. So for

506
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: most of the film, these are our two investigators and

507
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: the creepy castle. Now, you can't have a creepy castle,

508
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: especially in a gothic film like this, without like some

509
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: sort of authority figure saying no, you cannot go into

510
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: that part of the house. You should not go into

511
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: the maze.

512
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 3: It is not permitted, right.

513
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: And that character is William played by Michael Pate who

514
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 2: lived nineteen twenty through two thousand and eight, an Australian actor,

515
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: writer and director who if you look at you may

516
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: recognize his face. He has a very distinct face, a

517
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: unique look to go along with his talent. He's a

518
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: guy who played a lot of heavies in his time.

519
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: You see him pop up in a lot of Westerns

520
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: and so forth. But he moved from Australia and from

521
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: Australian film to Hollywood in the fifties and then in

522
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: the sixties. He's still working there, but eventually moved back

523
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: to Australia in sixty eight, and that I think ultimately

524
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: seemed to position him well to then get involved in

525
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: various Australian film scene projects that were taking place in

526
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: the seventies and eighties. So on the Hollywood side of things,

527
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: you'll find him in nineteen fifty three's Julius Caesar, fifty

528
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: three's Hondo. He pops up in Roger Corman's Tower of

529
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: London in nineteen sixty two, but in his later career

530
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: in Australia, he appears in several Phelipe Mora films, including

531
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six is Mad Dog Morgan, nineteen eighty three's

532
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: The Return of Captain Invisible, and of course nineteen eighty

533
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: seven's Howling three the Marsupials, in which he plays the

534
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: President of the United States who's briefed about the dangers

535
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: of were wolves.

536
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: Why does he play the president because.

537
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: The president needs to be briefed about the dangers of

538
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: were wolves? Okay in Australia. I guess I've seen this film,

539
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: but it has been a little bit. It's a pretty

540
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: pretty crazy picture.

541
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 3: I have seen it as well. It's been many years.

542
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: In fact, I recall all of the Howling sequels being

543
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: extremely unusual.

544
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like one that's a carnival and the Carnivals.

545
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: The other one that stands out in my mind. I

546
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: don't know if that's that's probably like four or five

547
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: or something.

548
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it's been a long time, but I've seen

549
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: them all. I like, I got into the ones that

550
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: are shot on video, like the Howling seven, which I

551
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: think is in the American Southwest.

552
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I don't think I made it that far,

553
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: but it sounds promising.

554
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: There are some beards and some cowboy hats.

555
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: Well in this one, he's William the creepy Butler, and youah,

556
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: he delivers all the creeps shades of I think Boris

557
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: Karloff in his sort of physical appearance and demeanor here.

558
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 3: I agree Boris Karloff. Also, William looks in physical appearance.

559
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 3: He looks very frosted. He's like a frosted flake with

560
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: a sugar coating.

561
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

562
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 3: His hair in his face. I don't know if that's

563
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: literally some kind of makeup they applied to his eyebrows

564
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 3: and his hair and stuff.

565
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: But Lerchian, you might say, yes, yes, all right. A

566
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: couple of just supporting characters here, because we've really hit

567
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: the main ones. But Hillary Brook shows up playing Peggy Lord.

568
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: She lived nineteen fourteen through nineteen ninety nine, American actor,

569
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: noted for roles in such films as nineteen forty six

570
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: as The Strange Woman. That one starred Hetty Lamar. Supporting

571
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: role she's a nineteen forty nine body hold, which it's

572
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: a very alluring title, but it's apparently just a standard

573
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: pro wrestling crime picture. But it has Henry Kulk from

574
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: Tobor in it Oh, who.

575
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 3: Played the communist car mechanic who ends up having to

576
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: fight the robot.

577
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, he ends up bumping for the robot. Yeah yeah.

578
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: Brooke was also in nineteen fifty six is the Man

579
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: Who Knew Too Much. That's the Hitchcock film, another supporting role.

580
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: Other pictures include fifty one's Lost Continent and Invaders from Mars.

581
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: Now we have this character that shows up, Richard Roeblar.

582
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: I had to check that doesn't spell robot backwards. This

583
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: just spells what ralbor, which is not boar. Yeah, but anyway.

584
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: He lived nineteen twenty through nineteen eighty nine. I mainly

585
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: bring him up because we mentioned him previously in our

586
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: Perana Mandir episode. Because he plays an undead, beheaded warlock

587
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty eight's The Thing That Wouldn't Die. His

588
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: other credits include fifty four stal In for Murder and

589
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: the nineteen fifty six sci fi fantasy epic The Mole People.

590
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 3: Who is this? This is Richard Carlson's friend who's hanging

591
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 3: out with them at the beginning and then later comes

592
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: back to make martinis at the castle.

593
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. His whole thing is just seems to be rather

594
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: chaotically making martinis, where he's like he's just whipping them

595
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: up and like here you go, and they're like someone's

596
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: like this is this is terrible. He's like, I'll get

597
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: you on the next one. Like how many martinis are

598
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: we hoping to? I have this evening to get to

599
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: the right one. Richard use a recipe.

600
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 3: I think at one point he I assume he's making

601
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: a joke, but he says he used a twenty seven

602
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 3: to one ratio, which I assume that means twenty seven

603
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: parts gin to one part vermouth. Cute.

604
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: Cute. Yes, all right, I'm going to skip over the

605
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: rest of the human actors here we fit some of

606
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: the main points. The music is by Marlon Skiles, who

607
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: lived nineteen o six through nineteen eighty one American pianist, ranger,

608
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: and composer. His scores include forty seven's Dead Reckoning, fifty

609
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: seven's The Giant Claw, which we've provously mentioned That's the

610
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: Giant Bird movie, fifty eight's Queen of Outer Space, and

611
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: numerous westerns with some sci fi and horror sprinkled in.

612
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 2: Some of his score work appears in twenty seventeen's The

613
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: Shape of Water. This particular score is everything he'd expect

614
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: from a nineteen fifty three movie, So nothing special, but

615
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: it does its job.

616
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 3: There were a couple of parts I was a little

617
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 3: surprised by because they were more melodic than I expected.

618
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: So when you see movies like this, I'd say the

619
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 3: score is usually very kind of moody doodling. It doesn't

620
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: come out with a tune that you could walk away

621
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: humming to yourself. But there actually were a couple of

622
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: moments in this film that had a very clear and

623
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 3: strong melody. Like there was a part where they're first

624
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: getting put into their bedrooms at the castle that suddenly

625
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: playing a melody that sounds kind of like a Scottish

626
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: folk song.

627
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: Okay, well that's fitting. Maybe this one wasn't just completely

628
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: cranked out.

629
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: Then maybe are you ready to talk about the plot?

630
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: Let's venture into the plot.

631
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 3: Now, Wait a minute, is this the part where we

632
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: should tell people if you really don't want to have

633
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: the ending spoiled for you, maybe you should watch the

634
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 3: movie and come back.

635
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: I think so. Yes. After this point all spoilers are valid.

636
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: We may skip ahead and spoil something we may explain

637
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: of some teas that they roll out and go ahead,

638
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: just boil what that tease is alluding to. So this

639
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: is the point to break off, go see it if

640
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: you want to see it, and come back afterwards.

641
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 3: Wait did we not even mention before that? In the trailer?

642
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 3: Richard Carlson is like, please don't tell your friends. The

643
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: ending will yeah ruin everything.

644
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, I wish they would do more than

645
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: most trailers are, just like, we're gonna gohead and spoil everything.

646
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, here's the ending. Yeah, but anyway, Okay, So

647
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 3: at the beginning, the movie opens with an overhead shot

648
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 3: of a hedge maze and ominous music and sound of

649
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: whispering wind, and then it fades to the gate at

650
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: the entrance of the mace, which is a heavy wooden

651
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: door that says keep out.

652
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 2: And I'm assuming this is all three D at this point,

653
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: so already like we're putting the viewer in the experience

654
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: of passing through a gate through a door that says

655
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: keep out, Like that's this is this is like watching

656
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: that train. You don't come at the screen.

657
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 3: Exactly, And the way the camera dollies to push through

658
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: the door, I sort of feel like we're about to

659
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 3: start a movie on the satellite of love.

660
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good. Yeah, going through the various doors movie sign.

661
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: But of course we see, you know, the three D titles.

662
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: So like the Maze comes out with deep three D

663
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: lettering that's supposed to launch out of the screen. We

664
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: see the blocks of the letters like hit a vanishing

665
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 3: point in the background, and the action begins with an

666
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: establishing shot of a lonesome gray castle surrounded by mist,

667
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: with light up in a single window in the turret,

668
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 3: and a man throws open the window and calls out

669
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: to the outside. He calls out Robert, Robert. Another man

670
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: comes running from the grounds below, and then the two

671
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 3: men these are servants of the castle, Robert and William.

672
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: They meet and the first one tells the second it's happened,

673
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: and they go up to the tower to investigate, and

674
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 3: there we see in silhouette the figure of a man

675
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: slumped motionless in a high back chair, as if dead.

676
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: And they agree that one of them will go to

677
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 3: the village and find the doctor, and the other one

678
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 3: will get in contact with mister Gerald. And then WHOA

679
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 3: something I did not expect at all. We cut suddenly

680
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 3: to the first of multiple testimonials from Aunt Edith, and

681
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: I was not prepared for this. I think it's because

682
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 3: the movie did not start with voiceover narration or any

683
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 3: direct address to the audience. But suddenly, several minutes in,

684
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 3: here's somebody's aunt staring right into your eyes, looking into

685
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: the camera and saying, I suppose that was the beginning.

686
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, this really caught me off guard as well. It's

687
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: kind of alarming, not only due to the fact that

688
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: here's the narrator coming in after the film's already started.

689
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 2: She's breaking the fourth wall, but at least in the

690
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: version I was watching, the whole scene was also framed

691
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: really strangely. Yeah.

692
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, it's totally like that sometime. Well, so different

693
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 3: Aunt Edith interrogation scenes are framed differently, but in some

694
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: of them she is not centered vertically in the shot,

695
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 3: like she's shot from the shoulders up or from the

696
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: waist up, but only fills like the bottom third or

697
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: bottom half of the frame, and the rest of the

698
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: frame is just reserved for the ceiling, Like here's the

699
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: wall and the ceiling and where they meet, and she's

700
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: down there at the bottom of the screen, just looking

701
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: right at you.

702
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: I couldn't find any answers regarding this, but based on

703
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: my limited experience, this feels very unninsies and it makes

704
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 2: me wonder if this was like added in post, if

705
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: this was whatever amounted to like test audiences of the

706
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: day saying we're confused. Yeah that Aunt Edith, bring her

707
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: in and have her explain what's happening in the.

708
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: Picture, right, I did not understand the film. I need

709
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 3: Aunt Edith to look me in the eye and tell

710
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 3: me what's going on. But so anyways, she says, so

711
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: her first narration is I suppose that was the beginning.

712
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: It occurred in Scotland, in a remote and distant castle

713
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: in the Highlands, and yet it started the fantastic chain

714
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: of events which led to my experience in the maze.

715
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 3: It was just a year ago. So now she situating

716
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: herself in time as she's doing these narration shots. I

717
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 3: don't know why that's necessary. It was just a year ago.

718
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: My niece Kitty and I were with a group of

719
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 3: friends in a delightful little cafe in Cohn on the

720
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 3: French Riviera. It was an engagement party and hey, here's

721
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 3: something similar to the other horror movie from nineteen fifty

722
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: three presented in three D that we watched. Remember how

723
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: in House of Wax the movie managed to work in

724
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 3: not only a full length paddleball show, but like a

725
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: phalanx of three D lady legs courtesy of an extended

726
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 3: can Can dance number in the middle of the movie.

727
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 3: I think the context was like this was in House

728
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: of Wax. Like the main character's boyfriend tells her, Oh,

729
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 3: you're upset about your friend being murdered and turned into wax.

730
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: You need to get your mind off things. Let's go

731
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: watch the Ziegfield Girls.

732
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go to a Bless show. And then to

733
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: be clear, Burless can have healing attributes that can can

734
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: heal the weathered soul. Sure, but also get some leg

735
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: kicks out there. It's a great way to show off

736
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: your three D technology.

737
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 3: There you go. Well, this movie also decided to show

738
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: us a full dance number, and I assume in three

739
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: D this would have been even more thrilling. But I

740
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 3: have to say that this is a horror film, but

741
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 3: I didn't. I don't think they meant for this number

742
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 3: to be as horrifying as it was. I was genuinely

743
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 3: worried for the safety of the woman in the scene.

744
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: So I have a question for people out there with

745
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: knowledge about dance. I don't know what you call this move,

746
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 3: but there were two male dancers and one female dancer

747
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 3: and the lady between them. Like the two guys suspended

748
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 3: her between them by each taking hold of one arm

749
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 3: and one leg, and then they swung her whole body

750
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: back and forth in a wild pendulum motion, like they

751
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: turned her into the pirate ship carnival ride, and it

752
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: looked like she was just inches from hitting the floor

753
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: face first, and they were swinging her so hard it

754
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 3: looked like if she actually did hit the floor, it

755
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: would definitely kill her, or at least like really injure her. So,

756
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 3: people with dance knowledge, is this a normal move? It

757
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: looks so dangerous to me.

758
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very impressive. And then there's this bit where

759
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: she grabs a drink off of the table. Oh yeah,

760
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: I thought that was rather clever.

761
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very good. I mean, I'm impressed by the

762
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: talent of the dancers in this scene, but I think

763
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: it's because she's moving so fast and the fact that

764
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: they're holding her each by one arm means that if

765
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 3: she were to fall, like, she wouldn't be able to

766
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: like reach up and protect her face with her arms.

767
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 3: It would just be face plant into the floor at

768
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 3: full speed. Sorry to dwell on this, but it really

769
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 3: freaked me out.

770
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: It's an impressive dance number, But so.

771
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: You mentioned the part where she grabs a drink off

772
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: a table. So the dancer at one point in the

773
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: number is like carried over to a particular table the audience,

774
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: and she kind of like winks at a guy. And

775
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 3: the guy she winks at is Richard Carlson playing Gerald mcteam,

776
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: one of our protagonists. So there are four people at

777
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 3: the table. You got Gerald, You got his fiance Kitty,

778
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 3: played by Veronica Hurst, and Gerald and Kitty do some

779
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 3: kind of insufferable engagement banter, like Kitty is playfully jealous

780
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: of Gerald making eye contact with the dancer and so forth.

781
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 3: Then you got Aunt Edith. That's Kitty's Aunt Edith, played

782
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 3: by Catherine Emery. When we meet her, she already appears

783
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 3: to be full of questions and doubts. And then you

784
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 3: got Gerald's friend, Richard, who takes Kitty dancing while Gerald

785
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: narrates some backstory to Aunt Edith. So when you first

786
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 3: meet him, Kitty says, aunt Edith, did you see the

787
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: way that girl was making eyes at my fiance? It

788
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: makes me worry about what he'd be doing if I

789
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: weren't here. And then Gerald says, I would probably be

790
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 3: out looking for you, just as I've been doing my

791
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 3: entire life. And then Kitty says, see why I'm marrying him,

792
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: aunt Edith, he always says the right thing. Then aunt

793
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: Edith rather slyly says, I've always mistrusted glibmh. I would say,

794
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: good instincts, aunt Edith, general life rule, at least in

795
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: my opinion, be on guard against people who always know

796
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: the right thing to say in any situation. You know,

797
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: that could be a red flag. They're just too comfortable

798
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: saying things they don't mean.

799
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: This is definitely a point in the film where you

800
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: might ask yourself, do I really want to watch another

801
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: hour of this?

802
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 4: Right?

803
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: But trust us, you want to push through because the

804
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 2: Gothic horror is going to kick in eventually.

805
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 3: It will. Yeah, we're stuck in the French riviera right now,

806
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: but it will get weirder. So yeah, so they're talking

807
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: about glibmn aunt Edith is like Okay, Gerald's about to

808
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: become my Would it be her nephew in law? I guess,

809
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 3: and she's like, you know, I don't like glib men,

810
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: but I'll make an exception in this case. So Gerald's

811
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,959
Speaker 3: friend Richard takes Kitty dancing, and then Gerald and Aunt

812
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 3: Edith get a chance to chat, and Aunt Edith wants

813
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: to know if Gerald's uncle Samuel will be coming to

814
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: the wedding. Gerald says, oh, no, no, there's no reason

815
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 3: he'd be there. He's kept himself locked up in that

816
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 3: miserable Craven Castle for decades or I don't know, not decades.

817
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: I think.

818
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: He just says years. Yeah, that makes sense, because I

819
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: don't know how long a baronet actually lasts in that castle.

820
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: And then Aunt Edith says she has heard the Craven

821
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 3: Castle is a beautiful place, but Gerald knows better. He says, well,

822
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 3: it might be beautiful from a distance, but I spent

823
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: time there as a young man and it was a stern, unhappy,

824
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: unsettling place. The castle has never had any modern improvements,

825
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 3: so it has no telephone, no electricity, no central heating,

826
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 3: and he also says that there were weird rules when

827
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: he lived there. Like he had to be locked inside

828
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: his bedroom at night and there was a maze outside

829
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 3: with a padlock on the door, and he was forbidden

830
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: to go into it.

831
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 2: He said. The one good thing though, no flies, No

832
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: flies at all. I don't know what was up. Saw

833
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: a single fly?

834
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, very good. Gerald says that every Scottish castle at

835
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 3: one point had a maze, but most of them have

836
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 3: had their mazes removed. The only the one at Craven

837
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: Castle has left, and I was wondering is that true

838
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 3: it was actually common for Scottish castles to have a

839
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 3: hedge maze. I've never heard of that.

840
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure. It's been a while since I

841
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 2: covered any maze or labyrinth content on the show. We

842
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 2: might have to revisit that topic in the future because

843
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: it gets pretty interesting. But as I recall, hedge mazes

844
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: were especially a thing in the Renaissance, and I know

845
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: there at least were some notable hedge mazes in Scotland.

846
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: I think there's one notable hedge maze remaining. What is

847
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: this Trequar House? I think I put up a picture

848
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: of the maze here for you, Joe. Looks pretty impressive.

849
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: There might be some sort of a gothic horror creeping

850
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 2: around in there for all I can tell.

851
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah.

852
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

853
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 3: By the way, I don't get the impression that there

854
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 3: was a full size maze built for this film. I

855
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: could be wrong, but I think when we see it

856
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: from above, it's probably a model. And then when we

857
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: actually have the scenes in it, I don't get the

858
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 3: impression that they have more than just like a you know,

859
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 3: a couple of turns to work with and they're just

860
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 3: shooting those over and over. But again I could be wrong.

861
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: I think this is just a look. Yeah, they shot

862
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: this all in Hollywood, right, yeah.

863
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 3: Well, anyway, after this, Gerald and Kitty go dancing and

864
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 3: they're you know, they're very happy, blissful, they're in love

865
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 3: and they're gonna get married and oh that's so sweet.

866
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: And then suddenly cut to another Aunt Edith scene. She's

867
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: looking in the camera again. This was the first one

868
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: for me where she's weirdly stuck in the bottom of

869
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: the frame and the top half is just the wall

870
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 3: and the ceiling, and she says Gerald's words about Craven

871
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: Castle and the mcteam family worried me, not only what

872
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: he said, but something he neglected to say that none

873
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 3: of the baronets lived more than a few years after

874
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: inheriting the title, and Gerald was the next in line.

875
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 3: The next day, which was bright with summer sunshine, did

876
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 3: much to dispel my worries of the night before. And

877
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: then we cut to a pool party, and I'll abbreviate

878
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 3: here and do a bit of a recap. So at

879
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 3: the pool party, I guess again, I guess they're still

880
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 3: the French Riviera. Gerald receives a letter from Craven Castle

881
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 3: from William, his uncle's butler. It's urgent and he must

882
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 3: come to Craven immediately. He resists at first, He's like,

883
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 3: I barely knew my uncle. I don't know why I

884
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 3: would be summoned. I'm getting married to Kitty in a

885
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 3: couple of weeks, so there's no reason for me to go.

886
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 3: But then Kitty convinces him that he should go if

887
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 3: he's needed, and she reasons that this will all be

888
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 3: for the best because while he's away in the land

889
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: of wind and ghosts, she and Aunt Edith can go

890
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 3: shopping for clothes without worrying that Gerald is looking at

891
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: French women. So he goes, and then Kitty and Aunt

892
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 3: Edith just hang around. They hang out at the French

893
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,479
Speaker 3: Rivieria waiting to hear back from him, but they never do.

894
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: They send letters and he doesn't write back, and then

895
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 3: they read an article in the newspaper announcing that Sir

896
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: Samuel mcteam, the Baron of craven Castle, has died. What

897
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: newspaper this is? I'm kind of curious, like, what are

898
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 3: they getting in France that has obituaries for minor Scottish nobles.

899
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 2: He's just you know, the fancy folk page and the

900
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: paper just telling you what's up with the.

901
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 3: Nobles peerage times.

902
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is concerning Gerald's not writing back about

903
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: any of.

904
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 3: This, right, So anyway, Finally Gerald sends a letter not

905
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 3: to Kitty but to aunt Edith, telling her that he

906
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 3: can no longer marry Kitty and she is released from

907
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: their engagement. And then there's a line in the letter

908
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: that Gerald has scratched out in pencil, and Kitty manages,

909
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: she does a sort of Sherlock Holmes trick, like she

910
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 3: manages to get rid of his scratch marks and see

911
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 3: what he originally wrote underneath. And he originally said that

912
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 3: he could never return to her, though he would wish

913
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: that he could, but he shan't wish it, for to

914
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 3: do so would be to wish for a death. What

915
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 3: could he be talking about? So Kitty decides she and

916
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 3: and Edith have to go to Craven Castle to find

917
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 3: out what's going on. And Edith is like, no in

918
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 3: Kitty's like, we're going.

919
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: All right, but now we're off to the races. Now

920
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: we're headed to the spooky castle.

921
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 3: That's right, So Kitty and Aunt Edith. Next thing, they're

922
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 3: at Craven which might as well be Castle Braun, Transylvania.

923
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: You've got foul mist swirling, You've got dead black skeletons

924
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 3: of leafless trees just twisting over the pathway to the castle.

925
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 3: You got an iron gate that looks like it used

926
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 3: to belong to Vlad the Impaler. The cab driver who

927
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: brought them to the castle drives off in terror without

928
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 3: even helping them with their bags. It's a spooky place.

929
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the expected Gothic castle notes here.

930
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: So Kitty and Edith go to the door where they

931
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 3: are greeted by the butler, William. And William, as we've said,

932
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 3: is very serious and severe, and he has this frosted look.

933
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 3: He almost seems kind of frozen in time. He speaks

934
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 3: very slowly, he kind of walks slowly, and yeah, he

935
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 3: just seems like he is all business and that business

936
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 3: involves some kind of evil magic. So William tries to

937
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 3: send them away, but Kitty is extremely pushy. So William says,

938
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 3: Sir Gerald is indisposed, and Kitty says, well, we're indisposed

939
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 3: standing here in this fog, and then just barges in

940
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: through the door. Kitty is very assertive, will not take

941
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 3: no for an answer. It's a recurring theme. So Gerald

942
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 3: comes down finally reluctantly to meet them, but when Kitty

943
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 3: sees her fiance, she sees that he has changed the

944
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 3: debonair young man who is dancing in the ballroom just

945
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 3: a few weeks before and now has gray wings in

946
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 3: his hair like Polly Walnuts, and he looks his skin

947
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 3: looks dry, and he just looks thoroughly aged. He is

948
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: shocked and unhappy to see Kitty, and he also tells

949
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: them that they must leave at once, but Kitty again,

950
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: she insists on staying. She's like, nope, show us to

951
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 3: our rooms. So Gerald has the butlers take them to

952
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 3: a suite of adjoining bedrooms, and we and that accommodations

953
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: in the castle are harsh. It's cold, as he said earlier,

954
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 3: there's no electricity, old furnishings, windows are sealed up with bricks,

955
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 3: and the servants lock the two women in their bedrooms

956
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 3: during the night.

957
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the second time we at least that

958
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: we've heard about this, that this is a castle where

959
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: you are locked into your bedroom at night. The idea

960
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: it seems that there's something out there at night that

961
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: you need to be locked away from.

962
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: And for some reason, aunt Edith waits until after they're

963
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 3: locked into their bedrooms to tell Kitty about this, Like

964
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 3: she already knew right that Gerald explained it to her

965
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 3: earlier that there are rules in the castle. You're locked

966
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 3: in your bedroom at night, can't enter the maze, and

967
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: the staircase to the tower is off limits. She so

968
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 3: in this scene she's like, oh, yeah, Kitty, these are

969
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 3: the rules.

970
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: Well, she knows, and aunt Edith is a is a

971
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 2: real rule follower. She's the sort that will appreciate a

972
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 2: long list of weird rules, whereas Kitty is liable to

973
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: just instantly rebel and ask questions about why we're doing this.

974
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 3: That's a good point. Somewhere in here, there's a scene

975
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 3: where William and Gerald are talking in low tones and

976
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: they discussed the fact that a woman who was hired

977
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: to do some cleaning at the castle last week has died,

978
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 3: apparently of heart failure, and Gerald says that they must

979
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: be more vigilant about making sure that no one is

980
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 3: allowed into the maze. So it seems they're troubled by this,

981
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: but they're also trying to keep a secret. Somehow this

982
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: woman died and it was connected to her going into

983
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 3: the maze against their wishes. Maybe she was cleaning inside

984
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: the maze. Does it get dirty in there?

985
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 2: Well, I think we'll find out, yes, it does.

986
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 3: So in the night, Kitty hears some sort of weird

987
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 3: scuttling sound out in the hallway, and she sees shadows

988
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: passing underneath the door to her room, and then she

989
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 3: discovers a secret passageway hidden behind behind like a what

990
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 3: do you call it? Like a sort of textile hanging

991
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 3: over the wall that has designs on it.

992
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 2: Is that a tapestry? Tapestry?

993
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 3: So she finds a secret passageway hidden behind that, she

994
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 3: enters it and it leads to a stairway guarded by bats,

995
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: and I think I want to do a brief digression

996
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 3: on why do is that bat effects in older horror

997
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 3: movies are always funny to me? I think there are

998
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 3: some funny bats, even in Todd Browning's Dracula, but it

999
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 3: goes to way more recent movies than that, like in

1000
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 3: the seventies movies with otherwise excellent effects. The bat scene

1001
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 3: in Suspiria is so funny it always makes me laugh.

1002
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 3: Why is it so hard to make a bat look

1003
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 3: like anything other than a ball of socks on a string.

1004
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, you do see it a lot.

1005
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 2: There are some pretty ridiculous bats in Santo and the

1006
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 2: Treasure of Dracula, as I recall.

1007
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. So after making it through the staircase of bat,

1008
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 3: Kitty goes as she looks out a window and she

1009
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 3: sees a light in the maize below. Someone is moving

1010
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: around in the maze at midnight. So Kitty tries to

1011
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 3: go get aunt Edith as she's like, Aunt Edith, wake up.

1012
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 3: We got to go up the secret passageway, but aunti

1013
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 3: Edith would prefer not to.

1014
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,919
Speaker 2: And this is a solid note in the mystery. I think,

1015
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: you know, it looks effective too, Like you can't make

1016
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 2: out what's carrying the light, but you can tell there's

1017
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: something or somebody down there in this forbidden place at night,

1018
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 2: and so it's intrigued.

1019
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 3: I agree, it's very cool. It's spooky looking. So the

1020
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: next morning we get this scheming scene where Kitty plans

1021
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 3: to say that they can't leave the castle now because

1022
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 3: Aunt Edith has a cold, And then on her way

1023
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 3: to the dining room for breakfast, Kitty snoops around the

1024
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: stairs up to the tower and she sees strangely shaped

1025
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 3: patches of slime on the floor.

1026
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 2: Now we'll say they are strangely shaped because they are

1027
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,240
Speaker 2: shaped like creature feet. Yeah, and this is where I'm

1028
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: not gonna I mean, you know, all spoilers are fair

1029
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: game at this point, but I went into this film

1030
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: knowing more specifically what the spoiler would be, and so

1031
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 2: this was also one of those moments where I was

1032
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: having to guess, like, well, what is the intended viewer

1033
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: the unspoiled viewer supposed to begin to think at this point,

1034
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 2: like what sort of theory are they putting together regarding

1035
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 2: this creepy old castle and the hideous secret a monster

1036
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: comes out at night.

1037
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a good question. It seems like

1038
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 3: I can't really imagine what sort of ending it's driving

1039
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 3: toward other than the one we get.

1040
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess it comes down to if there is

1041
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: a monster, what or who is the monster and how

1042
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 2: does it factor into the plot? Like, I think one

1043
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 2: potential theory you could start getting because they're very concerned

1044
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 2: about Gerald. They're increasingly concerned about Gerald and his health,

1045
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 2: and so you might think, well, hey, maybe this is

1046
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 2: some sort of like werewolf situation or Jeckyll and Hyde situation.

1047
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: Maybe he is turning into a monster.

1048
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 3: I think that makes sense. Yeah, you can think it

1049
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 3: is Gerald himself. And regarding the health thing, at some point,

1050
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: Kitty tries to get William to send for a doctor

1051
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 3: to figure out why Gerald appears to have aged twenty

1052
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: years in a few weeks, and William says, no, we

1053
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 3: are perfectly capable of taking care of Sir Gerald ourselves.

1054
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: So Kitty starts scheming again and she comes up with

1055
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: a plan. Her plan is to make Gerald see a

1056
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: doctor quote whether he wants to or not, And her

1057
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 3: plan is that they're going to send a letter to

1058
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 3: invite some friends to join them at the castle for

1059
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: a holiday. And the group of friends they're going to

1060
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 3: invite includes a friend named Bert Dilling who happens to

1061
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 3: be a doctor. And then that's going to get him

1062
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 3: a secret doctor visit.

1063
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: Brilliant. She's going to use the laws of hospitality against him.

1064
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 3: Yes, this is smart. Yeah, make sure you ask for

1065
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 3: some bread and salt. So Kitty goes out looking for

1066
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 3: She writes a letter. She goes out looking for a

1067
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 3: way to put it in the post and ends up

1068
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: wandering past the maze. Oh and while she's there, she

1069
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 3: meets a groundskeeper and hands the letter off for him

1070
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 3: to post it for her, which he actually does. You

1071
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 3: don't know if he's going to do that. But the

1072
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 3: groundskeeper is apparently the Torgo of Craven Castle.

1073
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, you're gonna want a creepy groundskeeper in

1074
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: the mix as well.

1075
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 3: So he warns her not to go into the maze,

1076
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 3: which of course she then does, and she finds more

1077
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 3: odd footprints in the same shape as the slime she

1078
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 3: saw on the staircase. And then Gerald catches Kitty snooping

1079
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: in the maze. I guess he's already in there for

1080
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 3: some reason and he grabs her roughly by the arm

1081
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 3: and he commands her to get out and never come

1082
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 3: back to the maze.

1083
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. So at this point we know there's some serious

1084
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: maze mischief going on. Gerald is highly involved in all

1085
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 2: of it, like he's he knows what's up, whatever's up,

1086
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 2: and he is just not telling them. There's some there's

1087
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: a communication gap here between these two would be lovers,

1088
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 2: and I guess they're not engaged anymore at this point,

1089
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 2: but you know, clearly Kitty Kitty wants things back together,

1090
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 2: but they're just not talking about whatever this is it's

1091
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: going on here.

1092
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: I think they're not in agreement about whether they're engaged

1093
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 3: su or not. He thinks they or not and she

1094
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 3: thinks they are.

1095
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean he won't talk about what the

1096
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 2: problem is. I mean basically it comes down. It does

1097
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: come down of communication. He's like, he's like, there's a problem.

1098
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 2: We can't get married anymore. And she's like, let's talk

1099
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: about the problem. Tell me what the problem is, and

1100
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 2: he says, no, you should leave right.

1101
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, she wants to understand Gerald's disgusting May's crimes. Yes,

1102
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 3: But then later Aunt Edith is quite rightfully infuriated to

1103
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 3: hear that the Gerald has been rough with Kitty, and

1104
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 3: she wants to go give him a piece of her mind.

1105
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 3: So she sneaks up the stairs to the tower, I guess,

1106
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 3: because she thinks Gerald will be up there. But then

1107
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 3: once she reaches the room at the top of the tower,

1108
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: she hears a scuttling sound and sees what other ways

1109
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 3: this like? She sees a toad butt, she sees the

1110
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 3: back end of a giant frog disappearing into a secret passageway,

1111
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 3: and she screams and faints. Now, maybe the filmmakers thought

1112
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 3: that you could preserve the ending because this goes by

1113
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 3: really fast, I guess, and you couldn't really maybe you

1114
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: wouldn't have time to understand what you're looking at. But

1115
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 3: it does look like just the back end of a

1116
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: gigantic toad or frog.

1117
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, knowing what we knew going into this, like this

1118
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: is clearly the back half of the monster. You just

1119
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: revealed half of the monster minsies And I don't know.

1120
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: I mean, it's shot really well, and the monster suit

1121
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 2: in question, I think is really good. Yeah, we just

1122
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: perhaps see too much of it too early to maintain

1123
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,919
Speaker 2: the mystery. But then again, I'm put in that weird

1124
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 2: position again of like trying to figure out what a

1125
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 2: fresh viewer would make of this information.

1126
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 3: At this point, I guess, yeah, to be charitable, you

1127
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 3: could say maybe they would. They would just think, well,

1128
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 3: I saw something weird, and that's what. And Edith says

1129
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 3: that Gerald like finds her. Shets on the floor, Gerald

1130
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 3: finds her, brings her back to her bedroom, and she's like,

1131
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 3: in your room, Gerald, I saw something horrible, the most

1132
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 3: horrible thing I've ever seen something alive. I saw it move.

1133
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: But then she never can say any more specifics.

1134
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 2: And then Jared, well, here here's a telling question, Joe, Okay,

1135
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: did you run it back immediately and watch the frog

1136
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: bet again?

1137
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: Oh? Maybe I did.

1138
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 2: I don't because I certainly did, because I was like,

1139
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: what did I do? Did I just see a frog bit?

1140
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 2: I've got to go back and see it, and I did,

1141
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: and I did that. Obviously that is not the intended

1142
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 2: viewing experience. That is not what Mensi's had in mind.

1143
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 2: So I guess we have to take that into account

1144
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: as well.

1145
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 3: That's a good point. Yeah, you couldn't rewind it in

1146
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 3: the theaters, But so aunt Edith is like I saw

1147
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: something alive, and Gerald says it was your imagination.

1148
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 4: You know.

1149
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 3: I demand privacy in my quarters. And then he instructs

1150
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 3: William to make sure that the guests are inside their

1151
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 3: rooms before he locks the doors at night.

1152
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: Good point, men, he died needlessly because we neglected to

1153
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: really hammer down how this rule plays out.

1154
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then that night, once again, Kitty hears scuttling

1155
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 3: and she sees shadows move slowly down the hall in

1156
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 3: the light under her bedroom door, and then we get

1157
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: an intermission. This movie has one.

1158
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 2: Nice yeah, and I'm reasonably short movie, but it still

1159
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 2: has an intermission.

1160
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,439
Speaker 3: And so they specify. I think this is the very

1161
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 3: next day, the friends that that Kitty wrote to, Bert

1162
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: Dilling and three other friends arrive at the castle driving

1163
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 3: Cruela Deville's car, and I was just thinking, wait a second.

1164
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: So Kitty put the letter in the regular paper mail yesterday,

1165
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 3: writing to her friends, who are presumably in another country,

1166
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 3: to come to Craven Castle, and they're there within twenty

1167
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 3: four hours. Sure, sure, man, don't they don't run the

1168
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 3: mail like they used to.

1169
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,919
Speaker 2: I guess this castle is closer to the interstate than

1170
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: the Draculous Castle, so.

1171
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 3: When they arrived, they interrupt Gerald, who is reading a

1172
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 3: book on territology, and they say, you know, hey, Gerald,

1173
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 3: Oh good to see we found ourselves up here in

1174
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 3: the highlands. Is they're good shooting up here? Obviously Gerald

1175
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 3: is extremely unhappy about this, but he, like you said,

1176
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 3: laws of hospitality, he has no choice but to give

1177
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 3: them all bedrooms to be locked in at night. And

1178
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 3: then next thing, I love the scene where the doctor

1179
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 3: and all the other friends are conspiring about how to

1180
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 3: give Gerald a sneak medical exam. Doctor Burt is like,

1181
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 3: it's obvious he won't submit to an examination. I've just

1182
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 3: got to observe him as best I can. And then

1183
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 3: the other friend is like, well, we'll keep him distracted

1184
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 3: as best we can, if it's possible to do. And

1185
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 3: then Bert says, yes, I think that's the thing to do.

1186
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 3: But don't watch him too obviously, and keep being as

1187
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 3: cheerful as you can. I think that's a good idea.

1188
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 3: So there's a dinner party where we see Richard. Here's

1189
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: where Richard is making the chaotic evil Martiniz and the

1190
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 3: At one point the dinner guests hear a noise from upstairs,

1191
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 3: and Gerald and the servants all dash out and lock

1192
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,959
Speaker 3: them in the dining room, and doctor Burt is like, well,

1193
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 3: I've observed Gerald for some time now he needs to

1194
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 3: be placed under arrest for his own protection. And then

1195
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 3: the when Gerald and the servants come back, they have

1196
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 3: a dinner. Somebody seems to be telling a possibly offensive

1197
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 3: joke about India, but I couldn't understand what the guy

1198
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 3: was saying. And then Gerald starts telling the rules.

1199
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 2: Now, is this the part where Gerald sends everybody to

1200
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: bed because it's almost eleven pm.

1201
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's eleven pm. Everybody's got to go to bed.

1202
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 3: You'll all be locked in your rooms tonight. No going

1203
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 3: in the maze now. So they all get locked in

1204
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: the rooms. And then we see, well Bert brought a gun.

1205
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 3: He's like showing it off to his wife. Here's my revolver, honey.

1206
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 3: And then Bert explains to her that mcteam, the MCTEAM

1207
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 3: Baron keep dying young. Shortly after they inherit the title

1208
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: and the last record of a woman marrying a MCTEAM

1209
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: tells that she died within a few days of that marriage.

1210
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 3: So we really got to worry about Kitty now. But

1211
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 3: then that night Kitty and aunt Edith sneak up the

1212
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 3: staircase to the Forbidden Tower and they investigate the room

1213
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 3: at the top. They say, first of all, they look around.

1214
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 3: They say, there's no furniture at all, even though we

1215
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,919
Speaker 3: can see furniture, there is furniture in the room. Did

1216
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 3: you have the same conclusion. I'm like, what am I missing?

1217
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 3: Why are they saying there's no furniture?

1218
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, this felt like, Yeah, there's a disconnect between how

1219
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 2: the line was written and what the actual set was.

1220
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 3: And maybe I don't understand what furniture means in this context,

1221
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 3: Like I didn't see a couch in the room, but

1222
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 3: there were tables and shelves and stuff.

1223
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't get a really good sense of this

1224
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: space based on this disconnect.

1225
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Kitty finds a bit of seaweed on the floor,

1226
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 3: and then aunt Edith, so she's like, oh, look, seaweed

1227
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 3: on the floor. And then aunt Edith, as if horrified, says,

1228
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 3: and a bowl of tomatoes. Sure, there's a bowl of

1229
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 3: tomatoes there. What does that mean?

1230
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 2: I wonder if this is tapping in I remember when

1231
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 2: we talked We've talked about tomatoes and tomatoes on the

1232
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 2: show before on the stuff to blow your mind or

1233
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 2: possibly invention. Maybe we're talking about catchup. But there have

1234
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 2: been times and places where people have had a horror

1235
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 2: of tomatoes. So maybe Aunt Edith is of that disposition.

1236
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 2: Like it's not that there might be a monster up here,

1237
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 2: but it is eating tomatoes.

1238
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 3: Maybe you're just thinking like that is what the monster

1239
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 3: in the tower would eat. Of course we eat tomatoes.

1240
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean are they store bought refrigerated tomatoes? Well, yes,

1241
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 2: then that can be a little terrifying. But see I'm

1242
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 2: getting the impression this this castle has a garden. These

1243
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: are fresh tomatoes, only Scotland's best tomatoes. Yes, William picked

1244
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 2: them himself.

1245
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1246
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 3: So oh. But they also find the book on tear stology,

1247
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 3: which inside is called its Territology colon the Study of Monstrosities.

1248
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 2: This book is this movie's how to cook Millhouse.

1249
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. But then they hear the scuttling sound once again.

1250
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 3: They're forced to flee. They run out of the room

1251
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 3: and next we see a very interesting scene. Gerald and

1252
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 3: the servants emerge from the sort of secret chamber and

1253
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:29,439
Speaker 3: they're carrying between them a huge sheet. Rob, what's going

1254
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:29,959
Speaker 3: on here?

1255
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 2: This again? I have not read the original novel, but Joe,

1256
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 2: if you may scroll down, you can check this out

1257
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,479
Speaker 2: for yourself. As far as I can tell, Salvador Dali

1258
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: did not do an illustration of the monster in this story,

1259
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 2: but this is as close as we get. And this

1260
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: is a depiction of one illustration of this scene where

1261
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: you have you William or the other guy helping to

1262
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 2: hold up this sheet and there is something behind the sheet,

1263
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 2: some monstrosity behind it, and it's a creepy moment in

1264
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: the picture. And then the illustration is also pretty alarming,

1265
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 2: like you can tell there's something horrifying back there behind

1266
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 2: the sheet, behind the veil.

1267
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, this part of the movie I think is creepy because, yeah,

1268
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 3: you can't see it. The servants are just carrying the

1269
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 3: sheet around whatever it is that's moving down the hall.

1270
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 3: And then Kitty and Andy to follow the sheet procession.

1271
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 3: It goes out to the maze in the dark, and

1272
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 3: they follow it there and then they navigate the maze

1273
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 3: apparently by sound. They're like following the scuttling noises which

1274
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 3: are then accompanied by splashing noises.

1275
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 2: The noises are great in these scenes, like there is

1276
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 2: this kind of slouching sound with whatever is being ushered

1277
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 2: around behind the sheet. And also I do have to

1278
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 2: come back to the frog butt here and say, how

1279
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 2: effective is this scene having seen the frog butt earlier,

1280
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 2: or if you're going in fresh or you're just assuming,

1281
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 2: well that frog butt clearly has nothing to do with

1282
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 2: whatever's behind that sheet, or are you the viewer saying, well,

1283
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 2: they're there is obviously a frog behind that sheet. We

1284
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 2: saw part of it earlier, a man's sized frog.

1285
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, So we're getting there. Andi Edith gets

1286
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 3: separated from Kitty in the maze. She gets lost, the

1287
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 3: candle goes out, and they're both stumbling around in the

1288
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 3: dark looking for each other until they both see something horrible,

1289
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 3: something unimaginable. A giant frog between the size of a

1290
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 3: pig and a black bear, just hopping around on the

1291
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 3: ground on all fours and roaring and screeching.

1292
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 2: It is alarming looking. It is a great frog costume. Clearly,

1293
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 2: it's like a human performer inside of a suit. And

1294
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 2: I hunted around. I tried to find if there was

1295
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 2: any credit, Like I'm always interested, who's the guy in

1296
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 2: the suit, you know, be it a gorilla suit, a

1297
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 2: monster suit, what have you? I don't know who this is,

1298
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 2: but whoever's in there, they're doing a great job. The

1299
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 2: physical performance and the suit and of course the lighting

1300
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 2: is all perfect. Though we'll come back to this at

1301
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day. Though it is still a frog,

1302
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure how we ultimately feel about that.

1303
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 3: It is shockingly weird, and it only gets weirder. So

1304
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 3: the giant frog is flopping around, apparently in terror. I

1305
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 3: mean it's immediately though frightening, it's immediately kind of piteous

1306
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 3: as well, and it flops out of the maze and

1307
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,480
Speaker 3: then goes up the stairs of the castle, still roaring, shrieking.

1308
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 3: It rouses Bert the doctor, who is like, stand back,

1309
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 3: and he shoots the lock off of his bedroom door

1310
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 3: and comes out armed. And then I think that this

1311
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 3: just further terrifies the frog monster, which then climbs the

1312
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 3: stairs to its lair in the tower and then dives

1313
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 3: out the tower window to its death.

1314
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we see it plummet. We don't see it hit,

1315
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,759
Speaker 2: but we kind of hear it splat. It's an alarming

1316
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 2: scene because again, once we saw the frog, after just

1317
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 2: a few seconds, it was clear it was not going

1318
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 2: to try and eat anybody. It was running for its

1319
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 2: life and now it has fallen to its death, perhaps

1320
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: on purpose, and now the whole scene is just awkward.

1321
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then this just gives way to an explanation

1322
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 3: scene like at the end of Psycho, you know, and

1323
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 3: they bring the criminologist in to explain what's going on.

1324
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 3: Jerald the next morning gathers everyone in a room and

1325
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 3: I love that it's the next morning, so you're like,

1326
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,640
Speaker 3: what was the did everybody go back to bed after this?

1327
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 3: And they're like, we'll talk about it in the morning.

1328
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 3: So it's the next morning and Gerald comes out. He

1329
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 3: explains what was going on? So what was the story?

1330
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 3: He says, I know that you all think that I

1331
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 3: and my predecessors for the last two hundred years have

1332
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 3: been the real lords of Craven. Well that's not true.

1333
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 3: The last Baronet Craven, Sir Roger Philip mcteem was born

1334
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 3: on the fifth of April in the year seventeen fifty.

1335
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 3: He died on the tenth of May nineteen fifty three.

1336
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 3: Last night we buried him before dawn in a corner

1337
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 3: of the grounds, in accordance with his wishes. And then

1338
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 3: he says, quite helpfully, but Gerald a man doesn't live

1339
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 3: for two hundred years. And then Gerald says, no, Kitty,

1340
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 3: a man doesn't, but certain types of amphibians do. I'll

1341
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 3: try to explain it as best I can. A human

1342
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 3: embryo goes through all the stages of evolution from invertebrate

1343
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 3: to the mammal. At one point the embryo is an amphibian.

1344
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 3: This is an outdated view of embryology that actually we

1345
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 3: talked about in a recent Listener Male episode. By the way,

1346
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 3: Gerald goes on, Sir Roger never developed beyond that stage physically.

1347
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 3: He continued growing developmentally for over two hundred years. He suffered,

1348
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 3: knowing he was a monster, but feeling that he was

1349
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: a man. So we learned that since then, every other

1350
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 3: male member of the family has that was known to

1351
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 3: the outside world as the baronet was really just there

1352
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 3: to serve the real baronet, the frog, and carry out

1353
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 3: his order and quote hide the family disgrace. And then

1354
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 3: Gerald says he couldn't bear for anyone to see him

1355
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 3: except for his nephews and the staff here at the castle.

1356
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 3: That's why he was so surprised when he saw you

1357
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 3: last night in the maze, Kitty. He meant you no harm.

1358
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 3: He was merely trying to hide. And then Kitty says,

1359
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 3: oh I see. Gerald says, nevertheless, he did have certain pleasures.

1360
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 2: At night.

1361
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,839
Speaker 3: He'd insist on us taking him down to the pond

1362
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 3: in the middle of the maze. He'd take off his

1363
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 3: cloak and splash around in the water. His natural habitat

1364
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 3: his bed in the tower was a mattress of seaweed,

1365
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 3: without sheets or pillows or blankets. We buried him in

1366
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 3: the maze near the pond, where he spent the few

1367
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 3: moments of contentment in his entire life. In the end,

1368
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 3: so Gerald apologizes to Kitty and everybody else, and he says,

1369
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 3: you know, it was really a mistake. He thinks that

1370
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,600
Speaker 3: Roger should have been open about the fact that he

1371
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 3: was a frog, and that people would have accepted him

1372
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 3: if he'd been honest about who he was.

1373
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 2: Is that true? Would they have really accepted him?

1374
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 3: I don't know? And then whoa. We end with another

1375
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 3: tag team performance by Aunt Edith in the ceiling, where

1376
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 3: Edith comes in and looks straight into the camera and says,

1377
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 3: Kitty and Gerald are married. Now they live in the

1378
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 3: old Castle, very happily. Everything has been changed and modernized

1379
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 3: except for one place, the grave of Sir Roger. We

1380
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 3: zoom in on the grave the end. Wow, holy crap.

1381
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 2: It's a real roller coaster because it's like, Okay, we

1382
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 2: get this hideous you know, kind of like lovecrafty and reveal,

1383
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 2: you know, secret monster in the castle, and then of

1384
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 2: course we later we find it's like it's not just

1385
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 2: a giant frog, but it's a human being that is

1386
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 2: essentially like this kind of a mutant that's been living

1387
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 2: there for two centuries. But then we get this weird

1388
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 2: sad twist where he just didn't want to be seen,

1389
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 2: and then it kind of cast Kitty is the villain

1390
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 2: because like Kitty, everything was under control here. It was sad. Yes,

1391
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 2: this was a sad scene, but nobody was diving out

1392
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: the window. Though, at the end of this film and

1393
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 2: all this explanation, I don't feel like they really accounted

1394
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 2: for all those mysterious deaths, Like isn't the whole part

1395
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 2: of it, Like like like there's like almost like a

1396
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 2: family curse that everyone keeps dying, and then there's that

1397
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 2: like only one woman actually married into the family and

1398
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 2: she died.

1399
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 3: So the way I interpreted it is the fact that,

1400
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 3: like the cleaning woman to the castle died, and the

1401
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 3: fact that the Baronets all die young that is all

1402
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,640
Speaker 3: a result of like the fact that looking at the

1403
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 3: frog is so horrifying that it like ages you physically

1404
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 3: years every time you see the frog, which is why

1405
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 3: the baronets all die within a few years of assuming

1406
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 3: you know, his sort of like top lieutenant post, and

1407
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 3: why people who are at the castle and happen to

1408
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 3: bump into him all die. It's just so scary.

1409
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, I was thinking about about all of

1410
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: this because again, at the end of the day, it's

1411
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 2: a great looking frog costume, but it is a giant frog.

1412
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to get my hands on the book,

1413
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 2: but according to Science Fiction Encyclopedia, it describes the creature

1414
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 2: as quote a one hundred and seventy five year old

1415
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 2: mutant whose embryonic development was arrested at the amphibian stage.

1416
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 2: It makes me wonder if the form of the monster

1417
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 2: in the book is suggested or even outright described as

1418
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 2: being something that is more of a hybrid, like more

1419
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,560
Speaker 2: of like like something maybe more like a giant fetus

1420
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 2: that's part frog and part human, like something that is

1421
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 2: like you know, you know in the weird fiction sensibilities,

1422
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 2: you know, impossible to describe or just too horrible to describe,

1423
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 2: and the film ultimately either cannot go that far, or

1424
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 2: you know, just decided, for various other reasons, to go

1425
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 2: with just more of just a giant frog effect. Yeah,

1426
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 2: I was, and I was thinking, well, okay, yeah, maybe

1427
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 2: in fifty three they just weren't ready for something anything

1428
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 2: that adventurous. But at the same time, like fifty three

1429
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 2: is the year that Jack Arnold's It Came from Outer

1430
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 2: Space came out, and as we've discussed on the show before,

1431
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 2: we haven't covered that movie specifically, but it has a

1432
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 2: unique monster in it. Originally they weren't going to even

1433
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 2: show the monster, but that was too adventurous. They ended

1434
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 2: up compromising and creating something that does look very otherworldly

1435
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 2: and strange. So it's not like they weren't capable of

1436
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 2: imagining and realizing, you know, strange monstrous images that don't

1437
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 2: match up one to one with natural world organisms. But

1438
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 2: you know, for whatever reason, they did not go that direction.

1439
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 2: They just went with the giant amphibian.

1440
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,959
Speaker 3: It's a very curious ending and effect because, in my opinion,

1441
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 3: though it was partially spoiled for me by like knowing

1442
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 3: what the ending was before I saw the movie. But

1443
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 3: for me, it's balancing right on a razor's edge between

1444
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 3: very effective and scary and just really funny.

1445
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's That's one of the reasons

1446
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 2: it's so novel, because I don't think anybody's saying this

1447
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: film has a great ending that totally redeems oh picture, No,

1448
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 2: it's weird, you know, and weird in a way where

1449
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 2: you're like, did that work? Did it kind of work?

1450
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,759
Speaker 2: Did parts of it work? And you're left unsure exactly

1451
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 2: how to answer, but it is, it is notable, And

1452
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: then all the weird stuff with like is did Kitty

1453
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 2: just get this frog killed? And so forth? I guess

1454
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 2: all of this does kind of tie especially, you know,

1455
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 2: the explanation about like if he'd only been open about

1456
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 2: being a giant frog, everyone would have accepted him. It

1457
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 2: kind of ties into this whole thing between Kitty and

1458
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 2: Gerald too, right, Like there's this communication breakdown, like he

1459
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 2: won't tell her about his problem and therefore she can't

1460
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 2: help him or help him find help for his problem.

1461
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 2: And so I guess the ultimate message is like talk

1462
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 2: to people. Don't shut yourself off from the world, because

1463
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 2: your problems are not going to improve that way. They're

1464
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:10,719
Speaker 2: only gonna fester and you'll just turn into a giant frog.

1465
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 3: Secret secrets are no fun, is Yeah, I would say

1466
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 3: that is the ethic of the film, though I don't

1467
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 3: know if that message really works, yeah, because like people

1468
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 3: do see the frog and then like die of fright.

1469
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:27,639
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it if it really makes

1470
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 3: sense to say, like, oh, it would have been all

1471
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 3: right if he'd just been open about it.

1472
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but maybe if he prepared them. He's like, look,

1473
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have William and the other guy drop the

1474
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 2: sheet here. I am a giant frog. So just be

1475
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 2: prepared for that, and then you maybe people will be

1476
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 2: able to warm themselves up for that.

1477
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 3: Also, one thing that I think really just in general

1478
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 3: does not work is the tidiness of the explanation scene

1479
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 3: after the frog falls to its death. It's like so

1480
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 3: quick and so direct, and everybody's just like Okay, yeah,

1481
01:17:59,000 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 3: I guess that's what it was.

1482
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like we've seen another pictures from this time period,

1483
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:06,759
Speaker 2: like refusal to send people home anything other than happy.

1484
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of reassuring. It's like everything

1485
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 2: turned out great, like this was you know, this was rough,

1486
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 2: but don't worry. They're fine. The kids are fine, the

1487
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 2: castle's fine. William's doing great. His hair is no longer white.

1488
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 3: They got central heating at the castle now, yeah, yeah

1489
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 3: they did.

1490
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah they mentioned the whole Yeah, we we open the

1491
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 2: windows back up. There's no longer a seaweed floor feature

1492
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 2: up there in the master bedroom. So it's all good.

1493
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 2: Don't worry people, you can go home happy.

1494
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 3: This film is Hayes Code approved.

1495
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 2: So yeah, in the end, a little slow in the

1496
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 2: build up, but yeah, there's a lot to consider, a

1497
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,639
Speaker 2: lot to talk about with the ending, very very fun

1498
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 2: in thought provoking ending, and a great frog costume. I

1499
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 2: really can't think of another film off the top of

1500
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 2: my head where we've seen a frog costume, because generally

1501
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:58,759
Speaker 2: you can get a frog, you can film a frog,

1502
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 2: and if you want it to be giant, you know,

1503
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 2: there are things you can do. Of course, affects wise

1504
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 2: to to have a frog play a frog, but yeah,

1505
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say it, best frog costume ever. If

1506
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 2: someone has a better one, bring it to my attention.

1507
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 2: Hell comes to frog Town, doesn't count because those are

1508
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 2: those are mutants, right, That's right?

1509
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 3: All right. I think that's all I can say about

1510
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 3: the maze.

1511
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing, that's for sure. So we hoped, we

1512
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 2: hope everyone enjoyed this episode. And if you did sort

1513
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 2: of take us on our word and you jumped in

1514
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:38,839
Speaker 2: and watched this film fresh with no spoilers, please report

1515
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 2: from the field and tell us how you navigated these

1516
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 2: various twists and turns and the inevitable frog butt, how

1517
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 2: that affected your expectations concerning where the plot was taking us.

1518
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 2: If this plot is a maze, is it amazed? Are

1519
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 2: you able to leave the maze? Or do you feel

1520
01:19:57,479 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 2: like you're just kind of stuck in it at the end?

1521
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 2: I liked it that as well.

1522
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 3: I would have thought a movie called the Mae would

1523
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 3: be more confusing, but I would say the plot is

1524
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 3: actually quite straightforward.

1525
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a little getting lost in the maze that works,

1526
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 2: But the maze is a good place for some of

1527
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 2: the suspense to take place. All right, We're gonna go

1528
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:18,800
Speaker 2: and close it up there, but we'd love to hear

1529
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 2: from everyone out there, And we'll just remind you that

1530
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 2: we're primarily a science podcast. Here at Stuff to Blow

1531
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: Your Mind, but on Fridays we set aside most series

1532
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 2: concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird

1533
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,679
Speaker 2: House Cinema. If you want to see all the movies

1534
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 2: that we've covered thus far in Weird House Cinema, there

1535
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 2: are a couple places you can go. I blog about

1536
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 2: these movies ats immutamusic dot com. But if you go

1537
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 2: to letterbox dot com, it's l E T T E

1538
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,839
Speaker 2: r box d dot com. Look us up our handle

1539
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 2: there is Weird House. We have a list of all

1540
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 2: the movies we've covered thus far, and sometimes a peek

1541
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 2: ahead at what's coming out next.

1542
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If

1543
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with

1544
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic

1545
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

1546
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 3: email us at contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind

1547
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 3: dot com.

1548
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1549
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 1: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1550
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.