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Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I was five when I'd clung to Paul's legs like

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Speaker 2: a tree and called him Daddy. I was fifteen when

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Speaker 2: the father i'd waited ten years for, the one father

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Speaker 2: i'd believed in or thought i'd had a write to,

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Speaker 2: abandoned me, just like the others hadn't my other fathers, Gandhi,

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Speaker 2: though Frank Robert been building up to this one father

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Speaker 2: whose name I shared, who was supposed to stay for good?

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Speaker 2: Was I no longer a sky Horse? I was still

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Speaker 2: quote unquote Indian closing gearbook signatures the way I had

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Speaker 2: in seventh and eighth grades. Quote may the Great Spirit

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Speaker 2: guide you end, quote the same signature Paul use in

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Speaker 2: his letters. If I wasn't a skyhorse, the only part

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Speaker 2: of my identity I felt was quote unquote me. Then

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Speaker 2: who was I a Mexican who had no idea what

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Speaker 2: being Mexican meant? Pretending to be an American Indian in

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Speaker 2: name only, an abandoned son mourning his dead father who

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Speaker 2: wasn't dead and wasn't his father.

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Speaker 3: That's Brando Skyhorse, writer, Associate professor of English at Indiana University,

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Speaker 3: an author of two novels, most recently, My Name is

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Speaker 3: Iris and the memoir Take This Man Brando's is a

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Speaker 3: story of identity, fantasy, mythmaking, deceit, and, more than anything,

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Speaker 3: a life shaped by the profound be longing for a father.

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Speaker 3: I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family secrets, the secrets

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Speaker 3: that are kept from us, the secret we keep from others,

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Speaker 3: and the secrets we keep from ourselves.

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Speaker 2: The landscape of my childhood started in Echo Park, southern California.

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Speaker 2: She's a neighborhood adjacent to Dodger Stadium. I was born

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three, so it makes me I guess

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Speaker 2: gen X. And I was about two or three years

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Speaker 2: old when my biological father left my family. And the

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Speaker 2: reason I'm hesitating there is because I'd always phrase it

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Speaker 2: as him leaving. Later I sort of reframed that understanding

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Speaker 2: was perhaps he was kicked out, perhaps there was an

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Speaker 2: aggressive move to eject him from our family household. And

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Speaker 2: both my biological parents are Mexican American, and my mother

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Speaker 2: decided to use that specific incident to essentially reinvent both

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Speaker 2: of us as American Indians. She created a persona for herself.

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Speaker 2: She created a persona for me. I didn't really know

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Speaker 2: that this had happened until I was about twelve or thirteen.

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Speaker 2: But that initial landscape, I guess was one of fantasy.

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Speaker 2: I suppose I was led to believe that I was

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Speaker 2: an American Indian. I was led to believe that I

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Speaker 2: was the son of an American Indian chief. You know,

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Speaker 2: so three, four or five, six years old, I'd been

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Speaker 2: told all of these really fantastical things, and I believe

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Speaker 2: them because when you're a child, you believe what your

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Speaker 2: parents tell you. My mother had this very specific idea

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Speaker 2: of how we, as American Indians were supposed to perform,

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Speaker 2: and she gave me this little speech that I was

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Speaker 2: supposed to recite, something along the lines of I don't

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Speaker 2: remember the exact words, but basically, because of this country's

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Speaker 2: treatment of our people, notice of the use of our there,

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Speaker 2: I cannot stand. I cannot salute the flag. And I remember,

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Speaker 2: you know, going into that classroom and everyone being asked

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Speaker 2: to rise with the pledge of allegiance. Because it was

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Speaker 2: again the early nineteen eighties, so that was the kind

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Speaker 2: of thing that just you know, that happened every day,

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Speaker 2: and saying it and sitting down and this is kind

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Speaker 2: of like this wave of like anxiety and fear and

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Speaker 2: doing it and feeling like in the moment, oh okay,

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Speaker 2: well I just sat down and nothing really happened, and

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Speaker 2: my teacher really not processing it in a way that

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Speaker 2: I guess i'd assumed she would, and her coming over

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Speaker 2: to me and laying hands on me and pulling me

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Speaker 2: out of my chair and forcing me to physically complete

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Speaker 2: the pledge of allegiance and then ejecting me from the classroom.

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Speaker 2: So that was first grade. So what yeah, eight years old, seven,

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Speaker 2: eight years old something around that.

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Speaker 3: And at that time that was still very much your

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Speaker 3: belief right that you were American Indian.

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Speaker 2: So it was my belief that I was an American Indian.

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Speaker 2: I think the idea of outwardly, you know, telling people

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Speaker 2: making those kinds of gestures certainly wasn't on my menu

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Speaker 2: for these are the things that I want to do

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Speaker 2: in a first grade classroom. But the thing that I

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Speaker 2: keep returning to is that, you know, essentially, I'm just

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Speaker 2: a child that wants to make my mom happy. And

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Speaker 2: this was a way that I believed, Oh, if I

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Speaker 2: do these things, if I act in these ways, if

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Speaker 2: I follow what my mom tells me to do in

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Speaker 2: these public spaces. My mom will love me, my mom

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Speaker 2: will take care of me. And that was I think

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Speaker 2: very important to me, living in a household where I

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Speaker 2: had no father figure, no father, no stable father figure,

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Speaker 2: and living in a household with just my mom and

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Speaker 2: my grandma. So I was very eager to please, very

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Speaker 2: very eager to follow what she suggested.

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Speaker 3: I do describe your mother a bit, the mother of

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Speaker 3: your childhood, the mother of those years.

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Speaker 2: The only word I can grasp at is awesome. And

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Speaker 2: I mean that in that the larger sense of that word, right,

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Speaker 2: just like a force larger than anything else in my life.

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Speaker 2: She was hypnotic. She was a fantastic storyteller. She was

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Speaker 2: the kind of person that you'd be transfixed, you know,

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Speaker 2: she would plant herself in front of you and you

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Speaker 2: would have this amazing, phenomenal conversation with her and think,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, like that's the most fascinating person that

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Speaker 2: I've ever met in my life. She was attractive, She

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Speaker 2: had long hair that would go down to her waist,

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Speaker 2: and just had this presence about her that, you know,

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Speaker 2: people wanted to talk to her. She drew people to

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Speaker 2: her and even as a young child, I was in

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Speaker 2: awe of her, but I also saw other people in

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Speaker 2: awe of her as well, which just adds to that

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Speaker 2: idea that, oh, here's this person who whom the world

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Speaker 2: is drawn to and circulates around. I think the result

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Speaker 2: of that was just giving her that additional credibility that

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Speaker 2: when she would tell me these things, was like, well,

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Speaker 2: of course they're true, because look at all the people

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Speaker 2: around her, look at all the people that are drawn

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Speaker 2: to her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. The word that kept on coming to me as

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Speaker 3: I was reading about your mother was well, there were

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Speaker 3: a couple of words, but kind of a fabuloust and

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Speaker 3: a fantasist, yes, And the largeness of what she took on,

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Speaker 3: what she did by changing not just your name and

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Speaker 3: not just her own name, but both of your identity. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: her name was Maria Teresa and she was Mexican, and

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Speaker 3: she changed her name to Running Deer.

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Speaker 2: Yes. It's amazing, isn't it. And it sounds so over

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Speaker 2: the top, right, But this was the late seventies, early eighties.

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Speaker 2: So this idea that you had this Mexican American woman

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Speaker 2: and this Mexican American child living in a predominantly Mexican

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Speaker 2: American neighborhood. But of course they're American Indians. And her

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Speaker 2: name is Running Deer sky Horse ed. This kid's name

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Speaker 2: is Brando s Cars. Of course that's more credible to

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Speaker 2: believe than there are actually. Oh, they're just two Mexican

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Speaker 2: American people who have adopted these personas. And I think

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Speaker 2: again that is a testament to, you know, my mother's

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Speaker 2: ability to get people to essentially fall in love with

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Speaker 2: her but also fall in love with her narratives.

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Speaker 3: In a striking passage from his memoir, Brando writes about

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Speaker 3: learning to talk fast and hide the truth. He learned

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Speaker 3: to stick to his mother's narrative.

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Speaker 2: My father is Paul Skyhorse, my mother is Running Deer Skyhorse.

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Speaker 2: They are both full blooded American Indians. My father was

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Speaker 2: falsely arrested for killing two FBI agents. My mother was

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Speaker 2: a lawyer helping with his defense. I'm the son of

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Speaker 2: an Indian chief and will become a chief one day myself.

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Speaker 3: Any questions, I mean, it's just it's designed for there

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Speaker 3: to be absolutely no questions.

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Speaker 2: No, right, you're right, yeah, that's the thing. The idea

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Speaker 2: of you know, how much information, right, how much information

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Speaker 2: do you need to sell a lie to sell a narrative.

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Speaker 2: I think that's one of the reasons that I became

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Speaker 2: a writer, and one of the reasons that I'm fascinated

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Speaker 2: with the idea of how you structure a story, how

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Speaker 2: you structure not only a narrative, but one's life, one's

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Speaker 2: life's narrative. How do you put that together? What are

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Speaker 2: the things that draw people in, and what are the

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Speaker 2: things that you can leave out? And everything in that paragraph? Right,

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Speaker 2: it's like, wow, this is really all that. Wow a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: and you know, kill that behind. Really there's just enough

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Speaker 2: of these sorts of like nuggets of fantastical information that

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Speaker 2: again it's beyond belief and you feel like, well, who

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Speaker 2: would make up something so fantastical? Right, it must be

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Speaker 2: true because we've all met those people. So much of

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Speaker 2: your story, to my mind, is about longing, longing for

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Speaker 2: a father, longing for a father figure. There are many.

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Speaker 3: Contenders for this role over the years, quite a few

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Speaker 3: of whom fail spectacularly.

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Speaker 2: Yes, certainly, But that first.

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Speaker 3: Of these is indeed someone named Paul Skyhorse. That's right,

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Speaker 3: your mother brings you to see when you're four years old.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is again that sort of nature of

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Speaker 2: how sort of fantastical or beyond belief this is, is

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Speaker 2: that in this larger than life experience or this larger

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Speaker 2: than life upbringing the idea of like, we're going to

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Speaker 2: meet your father, but you know, we're going to meet

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Speaker 2: him in this situation that you wouldn't necessarily think it

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Speaker 2: would be normal to take a four year old child

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Speaker 2: to There are two Paul sky Horses that I met.

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Speaker 2: One was in a courtroom or I saw behind glass

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Speaker 2: they really meet him. I waived in it, and one

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Speaker 2: in prison I get a visitation center, right, And so

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Speaker 2: again the way memory works is that you know, it

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Speaker 2: took me the longest time to realize, oh, those two

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Speaker 2: sky horses. Of course they couldn't have been the same person,

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Speaker 2: but there was one Paul sky Horse out in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: one Paul sky Horse in the Midwest, and so as

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Speaker 2: a child, it just naturally felt like, oh, well, how

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Speaker 2: did this one person get over here? And then six

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Speaker 2: or seven months later they were over there? How did

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Speaker 2: that sort of like how did that work? And I

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Speaker 2: think that my mom was relying very much on the

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Speaker 2: fact that I was a child, that I wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to remember much that she could basically just shepherd me,

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Speaker 2: you know, or shove me in front of whomever she

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Speaker 2: was interacting with and say, well, that's Paul Skyhorse and

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Speaker 2: that's who your father is, and that I would just

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Speaker 2: accept it at face value. So in both of those memories,

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Speaker 2: the one in the courtroom and the one in the prison,

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Speaker 2: I think that my memory of both those instances is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: at last, here's my father, here's someone I'm connected with.

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Speaker 2: So I think in both those instances it was that

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Speaker 2: sense of relief. It was that sense of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: finally this question has been answered for me, when the

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Speaker 2: harsh reality of it is that my search was just beginning.

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Speaker 2: What do you think motivated your mother? What was she

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Speaker 2: hoping to accomplish by shedding this Mexican American identity by

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Speaker 2: coming up with these beautiful poetic names, I mean, Brando's Skyhorse.

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Speaker 2: I mean what could be more just powerful and musical

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Speaker 2: and unforgettable than that? What was she doing by bestowing

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Speaker 2: that unto you and unto herself? So let me give

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Speaker 2: you the generous years of therapy response to that, because

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Speaker 2: I think that's important to keep in mind too. This is,

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Speaker 2: you know, I've had a lot of time, I've written

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Speaker 2: about this. I've had a lot of opportunities to reflect

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Speaker 2: on this, and I think that my mother suffered from

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Speaker 2: this idea that she was just some ordinary Mexican kid

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Speaker 2: from you know, a neighborhood near East Los Angeles. And

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Speaker 2: I think she had this idea that she wanted to

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Speaker 2: be more than that. She wanted to be famous, She

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a celebrity. She wanted to I guess,

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Speaker 2: interact in that world. Again. You know, it's a common story,

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Speaker 2: especially to people who live in Los Angeles, the idea

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Speaker 2: that you know, Hollywood is not as far from the

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Speaker 2: people in La as it is from other people who

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Speaker 2: you know, have been drawn to Southern California, drawn to

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Speaker 2: the idea of like stardom and movies, et cetera. And

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Speaker 2: so I think there was this sense that she could

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Speaker 2: reinvent herself and infiltrate this world of I guess political activism,

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Speaker 2: because that's the other thing too. In the seventies, in particular,

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Speaker 2: the world of American Indian activism drew a lot of

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Speaker 2: stars Marlon Brando. There was the Skyhorse Mohawk murder trial

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles in the mid to late seventies, and

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Speaker 2: I know that a number of you know, prominent Hollywood

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Speaker 2: celebrities came out for benefits and other such things. And

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Speaker 2: I think my mom saw, I guess in a certain way,

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Speaker 2: a way into that world, a way that she could

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Speaker 2: be more than who she was. And if I am

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Speaker 2: being really, really generous, I can say that she assumed,

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Speaker 2: by inventing this narrative, inventing this name for me, that

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Speaker 2: I would transcend my status as you know, just another

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Speaker 2: ordinary Mexican kid from LA I would be more than

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Speaker 2: when again, the reality is that if we had lived

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Speaker 2: in another part of the country, if we had lived

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Speaker 2: in say, Oklahoma, where there are stereotypes associated with American Indians,

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Speaker 2: it would have been a vastly different enterprise. So I

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Speaker 2: think there is a sense of I want to transcend

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Speaker 2: my own station, and I want the same thing to

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Speaker 2: happen for my son too. That's the most generous interpretation

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Speaker 2: I can offer.

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Speaker 3: Brando's in his last year of elementary school, when he

246
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Speaker 3: learns quite abruptly that Paul Skyhorse is not his father,

247
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Speaker 3: his mother just kind of drops it into casual conversation

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Speaker 3: and proceeds to tell him the name of the man

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Speaker 3: who is his biological father.

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Speaker 2: It was roughly around, you know, when I was twelve

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Speaker 2: or thirteen, And you know, maybe it's because she felt

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Speaker 2: like I was getting older, I was getting more inquisitive

253
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Speaker 2: and really wasn't taking no for an answer, that she decided, Oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: now's the time in which I can acknowledge these things

255
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Speaker 2: that happened, which were that you know, oh, you know,

256
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Speaker 2: you are actually the son of this Mexican American and

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Speaker 2: you know we had a brief marriage and it didn't

258
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Speaker 2: work out for a variety of reasons, and he's actually

259
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Speaker 2: your father. And she was very specific that he abandoned us.

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Speaker 2: She was also very specific that he abandoned me. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't her he had left, It was me that he

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Speaker 2: had left. I think she wanted to hammer that point

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Speaker 2: very specifically, because I think even at that point, there

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Speaker 2: was this idea of, well, he certainly couldn't have left me,

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Speaker 2: given how fantastic an individual I am. So you must

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Speaker 2: have been the issue. If you hadn't been here, maybe

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Speaker 2: things would have worked out between us. But now that

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Speaker 2: you are here, and now that you know the truth,

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Speaker 2: you know, I want you to despise him as much

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Speaker 2: as I despise him, and I want you to keep

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Speaker 2: this a secret. This is a secret. This is something

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Speaker 2: that I just told you because you wouldn't leave me alone.

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Speaker 2: You kept harassing me about it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: She tells me, you have to be more like the mafia.

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Speaker 2: You have to like keep everything together for the family,

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Speaker 2: and you can't let other people outside the family know

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Speaker 2: our business because this is our business. And so as

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Speaker 2: I got that information, there was this pivot to, Okay,

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Speaker 2: now you know the truth, but now there's a responsibility

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Speaker 2: that comes with knowing that truth, which means you now

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Speaker 2: have to keep up the lie with me to whomever

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Speaker 2: you meet moving forward. You know, I was twelve, so

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Speaker 2: again it's like, oh, well, this is my mom, and

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Speaker 2: I guess this is how it is, and so that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep up

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Speaker 2: the lie because that's what my mom asked me to do.

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Speaker 3: During this time, Brando and his mom are living with

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Speaker 3: his grandmother, June. Well, June doesn't exactly conform to the

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Speaker 3: facade created by Brando's mom. She doesn't discourage it either,

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Speaker 3: to some degree, she plays along.

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Speaker 2: I suspect that part of the reason that my grandmother

293
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Speaker 2: or didn't really challenge my mother on any of this

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Speaker 2: or kind of went along with this, was because there

295
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 2: was a lot of friction between the two. You know,

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Speaker 2: my mother, I've come to realize, had borderline personality disorder.

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Speaker 2: She was an incredibly abusive person physically and emotionally, and

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Speaker 2: not only was I on the receiving end of it

299
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Speaker 2: on a daily basis, but my grandmother was too. It

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Speaker 2: was like trying to fit a triangle in a circle.

301
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Speaker 2: And I think that there were instances where it was

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00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 2: simply easier to go along with my mom's schemes than

303
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,640
Speaker 2: the challenger, because she just didn't want to deal with

304
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Speaker 2: the aggravation, the headaches, the abuse, the constant arguments, the toxicity.

305
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Speaker 3: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets.

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Speaker 3: Brando's childhood and teenage years are rife with fathers, surrogate fathers, stepfathers,

307
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 3: pseudo fathers, men he was supposed to refer to as fathers.

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Speaker 3: First there's Frank, who's the first man Brando thought of

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Speaker 3: as a father. Then his mom takes Brando to meet

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Speaker 3: the man she tells him is really his father, Paul Skyhorse,

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Speaker 3: who is living in a correctional facility in Illinois. Quickly

312
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Speaker 3: Brando's little boy loyalties shift from Frank to this new

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Speaker 3: father or father figure, Paul's skyhorse. But that's not quite

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Speaker 3: right either. This begins a long period of time which

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Speaker 3: Brando's mom refers to as her man hunts. She simply

316
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Speaker 3: cannot be without a man, and Brando is her sidekick

317
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Speaker 3: in these man hunts.

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Speaker 2: It very actively includes me. To me, we had the

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Speaker 2: feel of like a seventies detective show. It was like

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Speaker 2: we were searching for the man with the one arm

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Speaker 2: or so, I know that's the fugitive, right, but like,

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00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 2: you know, we were like searching for someone. And so

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Speaker 2: every week it literally almost did it feel like every

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Speaker 2: week there was a new character, There was a new

325
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 2: person to talk to, There was a new guy who

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00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 2: could potentially be you know, my father, and traveling around

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Speaker 2: the country many times by train, sometimes by plane or

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Speaker 2: by bus going out and if you know, I describe

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Speaker 2: this to people, it's like, you know, this was the seventies,

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Speaker 2: and so again it's like there were no Google searches.

331
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Speaker 2: You couldn't check out like these people. The fact that

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Speaker 2: we survived meeting many numerous people just on the basis

333
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Speaker 2: of like here's a photograph here's an address. Oh, we've

334
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 2: got a phone number, and yeah, maybe that person will

335
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 2: be there. It's like it's astonishing, it's absolutely astonishing. But

336
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 2: I think there was this sense that to me, we

337
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 2: were on an adventure and at a certain point finding

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00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 2: a father figure, because it's the way she used to

339
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,199
Speaker 2: sell it to me. It's like, well, I'm doing this

340
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,919
Speaker 2: for you. I'm doing this for you, you know, like you

341
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 2: want a dad, like you know, you want someoneble that's

342
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 2: someone like Frank of course, who of course was reliable

343
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 2: and of course was in la and of course would

344
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 2: have been the obvious solution. Here's an opportunity for us

345
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 2: to like see the country and spend time together and

346
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 2: like find the right person. So I felt like, wow,

347
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 2: how incredible a situation this is. To be included, to

348
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 2: be trusted, to be given the responsibility to make this

349
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: decision with my mom, to be essentially a caretaker that

350
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 2: was something at like five or six, At seven years old,

351
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: it was like, wow, that's something that I want to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, you know, it's reminding me a little bit.

353
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Speaker 3: I wasn't thinking about this when I was reading the book,

354
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Speaker 3: but it's reminded me a little bit of Ryan and

355
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 3: tatumonial in Paper Moon. Oh right, yeah, that's you know,

356
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 3: like just the like that's great little sidekick.

357
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's spot on. Yeah, I love that.

358
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Speaker 3: After a series of different father adjacent characters, when Brando

359
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 3: is around ten or eleven, he has his first live

360
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 3: in stepfather, Robert. Robert is around for a couple of years,

361
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Speaker 3: and in that time he and Brando play ball together,

362
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 3: a father son activity if there ever was one. But

363
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 3: when Robert leaves abruptly, Brando is done with playing ball.

364
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 3: He never picks up the mit or ball again. At

365
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Speaker 3: one point, grandmother June, almost seventy, having never held a

366
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 3: baseball in her life, says to him, hey, let's play ball.

367
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Speaker 3: This is the first moment Brando feels seen, even for

368
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Speaker 3: a minute. June notices and witnesses the loss that nobody

369
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Speaker 3: else is seeing.

370
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 2: She did see that loss. And you know, again, I

371
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: think about sort of the nature of memoir and how

372
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 2: like it's so important to be as candid as one

373
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: memory allows, and thinking of that memory of like how

374
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: I had this father figure who was certainly not ideal

375
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 2: for many reasons, for much of his I guess, illegal activity,

376
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: And then he's gone, and I'm disappointed in that. I'm

377
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: heartbroken at that. And then my grandmother sees me. She

378
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: offers to play with me, and I reject her. I'm like, oh,

379
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that. Why would I do that? Like,

380
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 2: you know, just like looking at her, I'm looking at

381
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: her as if she is the most absurd person in

382
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 2: the world. And again, I was ten. But also the

383
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 2: only way that moment works if I'm honest about how

384
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: I was in that moment, and you know, thinking about

385
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: this forty years later or so, I wish I could

386
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: go back. I wish I could go back. And it's like,

387
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 2: you know what, pick up the glove, ma'am, pick up

388
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 2: the glove, pick up the ball. Have a little catch

389
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: with her.

390
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you couldn't because she wasn't a dad, and

391
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 3: what that whole business was about was throwing a ball.

392
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 2: As a dad. I think that's right. And understanding the

393
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: nature of just my circumstances to go back, you know,

394
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: the idea of like vetting my mom's boyfriends. I am

395
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: reminded of the fact that she would tell me frequently

396
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: that the primary reason she took me is for security,

397
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: because you know, it must have been a really ten

398
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 2: year old. But no, the idea is that if we

399
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: had somehow run into someone who would want to harm us,

400
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: because again, seventies eighties serial killers everywhere, it would take

401
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: a really specially messed up person to want to kill

402
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: a woman and her child. So I guess the logic

403
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 2: there is like, oh, well, if this person was to

404
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: hurt me, you're there, and he would be much less

405
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: likely to kill two people instead of one. So that's

406
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: my mom in a nutshell.

407
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: Right, speaking of serial killers. At one point, she alludes

408
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 3: to an encounter that she got away from with Ted Bundy.

409
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 2: That's right, and that was not true, right. I am

410
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent sure it was a fabrication, correct.

411
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, But there always is that zero point one percent

412
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 3: right that you kind of have when you're with somebody

413
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: who is really truly a professional at deceit.

414
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: It's always the point one percent right. And I do

415
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 2: feel like as I've sort of did my sort of

416
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: excavation to my mind mom's stories and like, you know,

417
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: discovering this tiny little kernel of truth that got exploded

418
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: into something massive. Talking about two Paul skyhorses. So there

419
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: was one in La and one in the Midwest, the

420
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 2: one in LA who was on trial for murder, and

421
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, it was a very prominent trial. When I

422
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: started to do some dick and I was like, oh,

423
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: you know, like I think my mom was just one

424
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 2: of those courtroom junkies, you know, just kind of like

425
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: hung around and like told people, oh, this is Paul

426
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: Skyhorsus Sun, et cetera. I bet their past they ever

427
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 2: even crossed. And so I did a Freedom of Information

428
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 2: Act request. Six months later I got this, like basically

429
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: about almost two thousand pages, this massive sheet of documents.

430
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: I don't know what I was looking to find. I

431
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: don't know if I was looking to find like, you know,

432
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: my mom's letters or you know whatever, right like, I

433
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: was looking for something somehow their past must have crossed.

434
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: And on the next to last page, like after hundreds

435
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: and hundreds of pages, I'm not exaggerating, I found a

436
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 2: visitor sign in sheet from nineteen seventy whatever, and lo

437
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 2: and behold, there was my mom's name. There was her name,

438
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: there was her signature. So she wasn't exaggerating at least

439
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: about this. They had met, she had visited him, and

440
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: of course, because she was a beautiful young woman, you know,

441
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: I want to visit Paul Scard. Yeah, of course she.

442
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: Of course she made her way in, and of course

443
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: they had a series of conversations, and of course they

444
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: had maybe corresponded or whatever. But it then got blown

445
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: into this much larger, more fantastical narrative when to me,

446
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: just the fact that she decided to reach out to him,

447
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: just that part of the story, that would have been

448
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 2: more than enough for a really incredible tale, right, But

449
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: not for her, not for her, not for her.

450
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 3: At one point, Brando's mom takes on a new job,

451
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: a very unconventional job.

452
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: So the way my mom tells it is that we

453
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: were watching the talk show Dona Hue. All right, remember

454
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: Dona Hue, and like you know, always come around the

455
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: same time in the afternoon, and he had a whole

456
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 2: episode devoted to phone sex operators. So there were these

457
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: you know, women behind like a black screen, and we

458
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: were watching it together. I guess it must have been

459
00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: summer time. I was home from school, or maybe I

460
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: was home from school earlier or something, and she said

461
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: that I pointed to the screen and said, you know,

462
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: you could do that because the show had like demonstrated

463
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: to audience. Oh, look, these are people who work from

464
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: home and make large amounts of untaxed money. They kind

465
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 2: of set their own schedule. I'm like, oh, sounds like

466
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 2: a good deal. And so supposedly I said to my mom, oh, hey,

467
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: you could do that, and that was something that did

468
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: I actually say that. I'm guessing probably not. I hope

469
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: I didn't say that, because again, ten eleven years old,

470
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: but my mom decided she answered an AD was in

471
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: the classifieds. And she then proceeded to start a career

472
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 2: as a phone sex operator, initially working for a company

473
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: where basically it was almost kind of like a dispatch service,

474
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 2: like she would get like a number and then this

475
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: would be a number you would call and it would

476
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I want someone who looks like this

477
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah blah, and who has this kind

478
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 2: of backstory. And then later as the nature of the

479
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 2: service morphed, she went to working like one nine hundred

480
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: numbers ninety seven six numbers, where it wasn't I hate

481
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: to use the phrase high end, but it was more

482
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: like just random people on the phone, as opposed to

483
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: like catering to people with specific taste, specific desires, et cetera.

484
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: She did that for a number of years long unto

485
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: when I was well into high school, and you know,

486
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: I would have to try to invent stories from my

487
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: high school buddies because you know, my mom was always

488
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 2: at home. The door was always closed, and you know,

489
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: they'd be like, why is your mom always in there?

490
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, she's working. It's like what kind of

491
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 2: works she do? Telemarketing, you know, because I had heard

492
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: that word somewhere. They're all from high school, so it's like, okay,

493
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: kind of weird but whatever. But was like, it's not

494
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: something I could just freely tell people. So it was

495
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: another example of my mother's I guess, fascination with narratives

496
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: and storytelling because that's basically what she was doing.

497
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 3: Right well, and it may be if you did indeed

498
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: say that, it would be a recognition that she would

499
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: be good at that, at telling stories.

500
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: I really like that interpretation, Danny. I really like that,

501
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna use that from now. I'm like, yeah,

502
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: that's that must have been what I realized, Like, she's

503
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: a really a storyteller, so she'll just do that. It's

504
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: not for everybody, No, it's for everybody. But yeah, I

505
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: think my mom was only really happy, genuinely happy talking

506
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: to strangers and telling stranger stories in whatever sense of

507
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: that word, because once you've met her, once you knew her,

508
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,959
Speaker 2: then you kind of like lost whatever sort of novelty

509
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: value you had to her.

510
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 3: There are so many stepfathers who come in and out

511
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 3: of the picture that Brando in his memoir creates a

512
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 3: visual chart of sorts, a casting sheet, so the reader

513
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: can keep track all the way through his teenage years

514
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: and well into high school. All these father ish figures,

515
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: their comings and goings set off little nuclear bombs of

516
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: longing in young Brando because there's always the possibility, the

517
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: hope that somebody's going to stick around, or that someone's

518
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: going to keep their promises, but none of them do.

519
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 3: And what these father thinks gears also have in common

520
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: is that they're often on the wrong side of the law.

521
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: There were five step fathers total, I would say, four

522
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: of whom being on the wrong side of the law

523
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: I think is an apt way to put it. And

524
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: you know, the thing that I would love to be

525
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: able to say is that, oh, you know, I eventually

526
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: outgrew that need, but like, I don't think I ever did.

527
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: I don't think even now, I think there's still this

528
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: desire that I have that you know, whenever I meet

529
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: somebody who's older and kind of gives off that mentor

530
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: kind of vibe, do you know what I mean, Like

531
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: somebody who has bid around a lot likes to tell

532
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: stories that there's always like kind of a romantic part

533
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 2: of me.

534
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, I wish I had a dad like

535
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: that Berando. That does not surprise me in the slightest.

536
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: I would be surprised if you didn't feel that way,

537
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: because you know, there's there's a moment in your book

538
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: that I underlined and it's just one sentence, but it's

539
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 3: I'm intact. But the scars are there, of course they are.

540
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a myth to think that scars go away.

541
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: You know, they can be healed over and they can soften,

542
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: but they're there.

543
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

544
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: The human spirit's capacity to reach toward the light, like

545
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: a hardy weed pushing its way through a crack in

546
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: a sidewalk never ceases to amaze me. Against the backdrop

547
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: of the sketchy non father figures and his mother's violent,

548
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 3: mercurial nature, Brando knows he's going to college. And not

549
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 3: only is he planning to go to college, but he

550
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: quietly applies to some of the best universities in the country,

551
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: telling no one, and he's admitted to Stamford University.

552
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: There's an acquaintance of mine who calls Stamford today the

553
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 2: no factory because basically, yo, no, you're not getting in.

554
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: So I will say, let's just say, for the sake

555
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: of argument, it was the early nineties, maybe it was

556
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: a little easier for me to get in. I will

557
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: also say, because this is a conversation I've had when

558
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: students asked me about this, It's like, oh, well, what

559
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: did you apply as?

560
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: Right?

561
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: What did you apply as? Because again it was like

562
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: you were living your life as this American Indian. What

563
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: did you apply as? And you know, I'm completely honest,

564
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, well, I was living my life as

565
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: an American Indian, even though I did not know. This

566
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: was like a story. I wasn't supposed to tell people

567
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: that I was actually a Mexican American. So that's what

568
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: I told. That's times like, I'm living my life as

569
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: an American Indian. So I told the Emissions Committee that

570
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: I put in my application I'm an American Indian, but

571
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: also wrote about everything that I've written about in the book,

572
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: which was, you know, meeting this person who I believe

573
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: was my father, all those things. Those things actually happen.

574
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: But you know, the implication under that, of course, is well,

575
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: you really didn't earn your way in, right, you really,

576
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: you know, you were put in the American Indian pile.

577
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: And so what I have to remind people is like, oh,

578
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: so if you're saying I benefited from affirmative action, it's like, well,

579
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm actually Latino, so I probably would have been put

580
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: if that's your argument, I would have been put in

581
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: the same pile, just if we're gonna be honest about this, right.

582
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: But you know, to me, the bigger sense of this

583
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: location is going to a place like Stanford, and because

584
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: I checked American Indian on the box is that I

585
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: was immediately routed to the American Indian students who are there.

586
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: And so I felt like, well, I can't interact with

587
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: these students because somehow that would be unfair, that would

588
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: somehow be unfair to perpetuate this lie to them. But

589
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: at the same time, it's like, well, I'm Latino, but

590
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: I got this name sky Wars, Well, what are the

591
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: Latinos gonna think? You know what I mean? So, like

592
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: it left me in this very funky situation where I

593
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: got in and expected it to be this transformative experience

594
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: and it wasn't. And it wasn't because in part I

595
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: was never able to just have that honest conversation with

596
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: myself and say, this is who I am, this is

597
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: my identity. I didn't choose, it was chosen for me,

598
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: and I'm going to make the best of this situation.

599
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: That's probably a lot to ask of an eighteen year old,

600
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: though I was basically walking around in this dank fog.

601
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: And I remember one of the first meetings I had

602
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: with an advisor if I submitted this paper and it

603
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: was like a three page aside and all Greek nts

604
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: or something or other. And this person was a resident fellow.

605
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: And so at Stanford, like these professors they live in

606
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: the dorms, right, so you can go to their apartment

607
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: and it's meant to create this sort of atmosphere of

608
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: conviviality that like, you can eat dinner with your professors.

609
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: So I remember walking down this hall because I had

610
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: submitted like an eight page paper, I'll blow him out

611
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: of the water. And I remember going into his apartment

612
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: and my paper was on the table and I looked

613
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: at the papers blank, like there's no red marks. I'm like,

614
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is going to be easier than

615
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: I thought. And he sits down and he turns to

616
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: me and he says, Okay, did you have problems writing

617
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: in high school? And it was like one of those

618
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: like telescopic moments in a movie where it's just like

619
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: everything is shattered. It's like, oh wow, I'm really terrible

620
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: at this. I'm trouble now. How do I figure this out?

621
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: And every week I was there, there is this sense

622
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: of I'm a fraud. I don't belong here. I should leave,

623
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: and getting that message reafferred by my mother, who had

624
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: a I mean possible time letting me go and was

625
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: constantly on the phone with me saying just come on home,

626
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: come on home, you know, like there's no shame in this,

627
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: just you don't belong there. And so, yeah, that first

628
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: quarter was a really really challenging time, the first couple

629
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: of quarters of particular.

630
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: What do you think kept you from doing just that? So,

631
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 3: for whatever reason.

632
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: I stuck around fall quarter I came back home and Danny,

633
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've had this experience where, perhaps you know,

634
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: going back to a childhood home and just everything seemed

635
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: so much smaller, almost like a miniature version of things.

636
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: And I remember leaving that September and just feeling like, oh,

637
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: this was my home. What am I doing? Every sort

638
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: of like attachment in the world is here, and then

639
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: coming back and feeling like I'm like an actor on

640
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: a stage, almost like this is completely foreign to me,

641
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 2: these connections, this house, everything felt like shrunk down, and

642
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: there was this realization was like, oh, I'm gonna move

643
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 2: back into this. This doesn't feel right. So I went

644
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: back that winter semester, and again i'd had a different professor,

645
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 2: somebody who I think was aware of where my interests

646
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: were and perhaps where my talents were and worked with

647
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: me in a way that helped me get over that hump.

648
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: By the time I got to nearly the end of

649
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: winter quarter, I was turning excellent work, not just for me,

650
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: work that was acknowledged by my Stanford professors like oh,

651
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: this is really great, believe provocative thesis. And I think

652
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: it was just that acknowledgment that I know what's down

653
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: that road. I know that my mom and my grandmother,

654
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: having lived in that house for many, many, many years,

655
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: I know what's down that road. It's me taking my

656
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 2: place in that house alongside them. And I knew that

657
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: wasn't what I wanted, and so I just had to

658
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: dig out. I just had to dig out and just

659
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: hunker down and hang in there. And I know it

660
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 2: sounds incredibly cliche, but time time to I guess acknowledge.

661
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: This is not going to be something that happens overnight.

662
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: My integration into this world is going to take work

663
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: and it's going to take time, but that I owe

664
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: myself the benefit of both.

665
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's beautiful. It reminds me of I saw a

666
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 3: play recently, really good play on Broadway called The Hills

667
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 3: of California, and there's this moment where there's this one character,

668
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: this daughter, who has never left home, and you know

669
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: they're all adults, and one of the sisters turns to

670
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 3: her and says, you just could never find the door. Hmm.

671
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: Well, I love that.

672
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: Growing up reading had been Brando's refuge. Reading had been

673
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 3: his escape into narrative, and interestingly enough, away from narrative too,

674
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 3: away from the stories. Spun by his mother, and as

675
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: he moves through college he discovers he's not only a reader,

676
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 3: but a writer. After finishing undergrad he goes directly into

677
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: the academically rigorous MFA program at Irvine University of California.

678
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: This is a big move found his door.

679
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 2: So the idea, I think was either find a way

680
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: to write for a living or become an entertainment lawyer.

681
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: And I think maybe that's because I watched a lot

682
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 2: of LA law growing up. Maybe that was it. I'm

683
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: not really sure. I was really like drawn to those

684
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: big houses and fancy cars. But I had this wonderful

685
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: associate instructor named Ray. He was a Stagner fellow, and

686
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: I was talking to him about applying to law school,

687
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: applying to you know, MFA programs, because I really want

688
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: to write. And he's like, look, if you go to

689
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 2: law school, you're gonna get in a lot of debt.

690
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: So find an MFA program that will give you, you know,

691
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: a fully funded degree, and go do that because you

692
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: can always go do law school afterwards. And he had

693
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 2: like it was another person. You know, there are always

694
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: these people along the way who are like, oh, hey,

695
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: I really like what you're doing, keep at it. You know,

696
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: I think this is something that you could probably make

697
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: a living at. I think maybe he even mentioned the

698
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 2: fact that Irvine had a program, because you know, this

699
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: wasn't something that I was very knowledgeable about, and so

700
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: I think the idea is like, oh, I can do this,

701
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: and it's only going to be two year and let's

702
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: see what comes of it. So getting to Irvine and

703
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: then hitting the ground running and realizing oh, this is

704
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: something that you know, I really enjoy doing and really

705
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 2: appreciate doing it just felt like there was a piece

706
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: that I felt in myself. Because again this is before

707
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: therapy and for everything else, there was a piece that

708
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 2: I felt in myself when I was writing, and it's

709
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: still every time I sit down, every time I turn

710
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: off all the distractions and it's just me and the work.

711
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 2: Everything else disappears, and there's this enormous sense of peace

712
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: and tranquility that happens. It's like going almost into a

713
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: fugue state, and it feels very comforting, it feels very protective,

714
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: it feels like tons of possibility. And then of course

715
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: obviously when you finish writing, like in the revision and

716
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: all that other stuff, it's like, oh, you know, like

717
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: if I could just skip all of this part right,

718
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: But I think, to me, the reason why I write,

719
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 2: it's that sense of possibility and comfort and protection.

720
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: That's why I write. After graduating from the MFA program

721
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 3: at Irvine, Brando and his girlfriend move east to Jersey City.

722
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 3: They're just settling into their new place when Brando receives

723
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 3: a message from his latest stepfather with some very intense news.

724
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 2: I get the call and it's a stepfather number five

725
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: who tells me that my mom had passed, and it

726
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,479
Speaker 2: was sudden. My mother had gained a lot of weight

727
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 2: over the years and had become fixated with trying to

728
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: lose that weight. Tried a number of these ridiculous powders

729
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: and all the other stuffers the eighties and nineties zero

730
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: were just awash and all of these infomercials, and unbeknownst

731
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: to me, she had started taking drugs to lose that weight.

732
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: She started taking speed, which she had dabbled with, you know,

733
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: throughout much of her life, and then she also started

734
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: taking fen fenn. This was before was off the market,

735
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: Forest taken off the market, and she start to cocktailing

736
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: the two a very very dangerous combination, and her heart

737
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: just gave out when she was fifty years old. I

738
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: didn't handle it well, I remember at the time, just

739
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: not really processing it, just kind of like robotically saying, Okay,

740
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 2: my mom passed away, hanging up the phone. I didn't

741
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: go back for the funeral because I had this sense,

742
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 2: because I was on the East coast now, that if

743
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: I went back, I would end up, you know, to

744
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: use the language you describe, I would end up back

745
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: in that house, not finding the door. I would end

746
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: up back in the house taking my mom's place. I

747
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: just knew that's what would happen, and it terrified me.

748
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: Should have gone back for the funeral, didn't go back,

749
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: and spent many many years basically trying to process this,

750
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: trying to process our relationship, trying to essentially figure out

751
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: an ending for my mother and I because I think

752
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: I believed at a certain point, you reach a certain age, oh,

753
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: my mom and I are going to come to some

754
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: sort of reconciliation, right, There's going to be some sort

755
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: of movement or some sort of whatever. And it just

756
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: was like cutting off a tree, Bram. She was just like, basically,

757
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: my mom is forever frozen as a fifty year old

758
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 2: like I'm now older than she is, and so there

759
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 2: is that sense of what could have been, what would

760
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: have happened. Would we have found a way to reach

761
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: some sort of understanding between us? And I hate to

762
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: be cruel about it, but it's like, I don't know

763
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 2: if that's possible, and maybe in a certain way for me,

764
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: you know, her passing, her sudden passing, allowed me to

765
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 2: do the work without additional damage being added on top

766
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: of it.

767
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: What year did your mother die?

768
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: She died in nineteen ninety eight. January sixth, nineteen ninety eight,

769
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: says If I needed other reasons to remember that day today,

770
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: I'd never forget. And my grandmother passed away a year

771
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 2: after that in ninety nine. About a year and a

772
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 2: half after that.

773
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 3: In twenty ten, Brando finds and contacts his biological father,

774
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 3: another father, the og Father. His name is Candy Uyoa.

775
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: I reached out to him for the best of reasons,

776
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: which was I had a book contract to write a memoir,

777
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 2: So what better time, right, you know, writers, writers, man?

778
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: So I just published my first novel, which I think

779
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: went well. I was pleased with the experience. It was

780
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 2: a two book deal, and I was putting together the

781
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: sort of the outline for this book, and I had

782
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: trouble beginning it. And again, you know, I'm assuming you

783
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: understand as somebody who's written many wonderful, beautiful memoirs yourself.

784
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: For me, as far as this memoir, I just didn't

785
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: know where to begin. It seems so massive, the story

786
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: seems so overwhelming. It's like, what's the door in? How

787
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: do you walk into this story? Because there's just so

788
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: many twists and turns. And my ex girlfriend, the one

789
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: who actually I moved out with to the East Coast,

790
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: we were still in contact. She's like, Yo, why don't

791
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: you see if you can find Gabby though? And I'm like,

792
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: come on, you know what I mean? Like girls, I

793
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: was thinking, like the movies, I can't afford a private

794
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hire like what Barnaby Jones or something like

795
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: I don't know why all my references are seventies and

796
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: it's maybe that's where my head is. But she was like, no, like,

797
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: you know, just use the internet see if you could,

798
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: like maybe you know, find somebody who could do some

799
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: online research for you or something. And so I figured like, okay,

800
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: that seems like a reasonable idea, and I thought I

801
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: would write about my inability to find him. That was

802
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: the ankle. That was how I was going to structure

803
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: because I was like, that seems like an interesting way, right,

804
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: empty computer screen or whatever, So I'm gonna have to

805
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: white pages. Dot Com typed in his name and I said, oh,

806
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: we have a result, but you have to pay ten

807
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: bucks ord or whatever. It's like, okay, let's see who

808
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: this non person is. And it was his name complete

809
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: GANI though Garcia Yoa and it had an address in California,

810
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: and I'm like, all right, well, let's get this a shot.

811
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 2: I wrote him a letter, a simple one page letter,

812
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 2: and I had my friend translated into Spanish, because again,

813
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 2: having been raised as a Mexican American, it's one of

814
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: the things that I lost, and people think about passing

815
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: right now. It's passes an American Indian. People think about, oh,

816
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: you gained this, or you gained that. Nobody thinks about

817
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: what you lost. I lost this whole identity of mine.

818
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: I should know Spanish, I should be able to speak

819
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 2: Spanish better than I do. So I had a friend

820
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: translated for me, and I included a couple of photos

821
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: color zeroxis of some photos. I'm like, I think you're

822
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: my father. Here's a letter, and he received it and

823
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: his wife had already known about my existence, but his

824
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: children didn't. And so when the letter arrived, his wife,

825
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: a wonderful woman named Dorora, went to him and said,

826
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: your son is looking for you. Here's his letter. You're

827
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: going to contact him. And when she said are you

828
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: going to it really wasn't a question, it was a statement, like,

829
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: you're going to contact him? And a week later I

830
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: got a message on my voicemail short message with a number,

831
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: called him back and he immediately started speaking to me

832
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: in Spanish and I'm like, no, no, that somebody else

833
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: wrote that letter. I don't understand what you're saying. And

834
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, you know, Spanish was so well written.

835
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm the man you're looking for. Didn't say

836
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: it was my father said I'm the man you're looking for.

837
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: You know.

838
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 3: One of the things I think about about writing memoir,

839
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 3: writing creative nonfiction when it's personal and therefore scary, that

840
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 3: there's also this way in which I'm curious what you think,

841
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: because I know for me, I think that it has

842
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 3: given me the permission to be brave and write the

843
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 3: letter or make the phone call in a way that

844
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: I don't think I would have dared to do in

845
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: any other way. But because it was for my book,

846
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 3: for my job, because it was for the story, it

847
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 3: allowed me to push past my own fear, you know,

848
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 3: because you're framing it, and maybe it's true for you,

849
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: but you're framing it as you know, well, writers, we

850
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 3: want what we want if it's good for a story,

851
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 3: which I also think you know is very valid and

852
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 3: certainly for me in other ways. But I wonder whether

853
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 3: you think you ever would have done that regardless.

854
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 2: So I really like the way you frame it, in

855
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 2: part first because it's much less cynical, but my take,

856
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 2: which is a very very cynical take, right, But more specifically, yeah,

857
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: this rationalization that hey, like, I have permission to knock

858
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: on doors and do a little gumshoe sleuthing and figuring

859
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: things out because this is what I do. It's for

860
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: the project, it's for the book. It's a sense of

861
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: I'm giving myself permission because I think that given the

862
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 2: way that you have told me you venerate books and

863
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 2: the way that I venerate books, right, like books save

864
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 2: my life, right, And here's a chance to create a book,

865
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: to create a narrative that might impact someone's life in

866
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: a positive way. That somebody might have this crazy upbringing

867
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: and they read my book and they're like, oh wow,

868
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: like maybe I feel less alone. It's like that sense

869
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: of oh, I have permission to go and knock on

870
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: this door. I have permission to send this letter.

871
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: When Brando connects with Candy, he also learns something extraordinary.

872
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 3: Not only has he finally met his biological thoughts, but

873
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: he also has three sisters.

874
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: Growing up, I think I had often long for siblings,

875
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 2: but for a very selfish reason, and that there would

876
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: be multiple people to absorb my mother's abuse, in my

877
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: mother's my mother's anger, there would be like, you know,

878
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: more bodies, I guess, to go around. But also I

879
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: think the sense that having siblings would have validated that

880
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: experience so much more, the idea of like, hey, wasn't

881
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 2: that crazy what she just did? Or wasn't that crazy

882
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: what she just said? I would have had much less

883
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: of this, the sense of that I was experiencing and

884
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: absorbing all of this trauma on my own. But to me,

885
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: the wonderful thing about having these sisters and these siblings

886
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 2: is well twofold, you know. Number one, just knowing that

887
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: there are people out there like me who are just

888
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: kind of experiencing the world to me again, like I

889
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: still marvel at that. That's still amazing to me. But

890
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: the fact that after a single conversation, one conversation where

891
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: essentially my eldest sister asked me like, okay, well, who

892
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: the heck are you? I met them in La like

893
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: who are you? What are you doing here? Right? And

894
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: once I explained to them what I've just told you,

895
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: once they understood the situation, they're like, oh, okay, well

896
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: you're our brother, simple as that. So we don't even

897
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: use the half designations like oh well technically, oh he's

898
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: a half brother. Half they're my sisters and I'm their brother.

899
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: And the fact that one of the conversations I had

900
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: with Frank after I discovered them is that, you know,

901
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: he said, they were clearly waiting for you. They were

902
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 2: waiting for you. They somehow they didn't know you existed,

903
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 2: but they were waiting for you. And that's your family.

904
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: It's not how all families work, but this is how

905
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: your family works.

906
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 3: Well, and Candy also lets you know that he did

907
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 3: not leave you.

908
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wanted to make that clear, that that narrative

909
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,479
Speaker 2: that I'd had drilled into me for years and years

910
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 2: and years, that he wanted to stay, he wanted to

911
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 2: find a way to make this work and that. But

912
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: you know, essentially I was never far from his thoughts.

913
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 2: I don't think he would say that he acted perfectly

914
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: in all of the subsequent situations. But when I took

915
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: him out to lunch, this was a few years ago. Now,

916
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 2: he tells me, oh, I'm getting a new email address,

917
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: and this is the first time in as many many

918
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: years that you know, he had an email address. It

919
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: would have to check into a computer and they say, well,

920
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: you're going to need a password, and you know the

921
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 2: password is obviously, that's the one word you never give anyone.

922
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 2: That's the one Never share your password, never tell anyone

923
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 2: what that password is. And he looks at me very earnestly,

924
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 2: and he says, my password is Brando, And somehow that

925
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: seems wholly appropriate.

926
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 3: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Zaccor is the

927
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. If

928
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: you have a family secret, you'd like to share, Please

929
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 3: leave us a voicemail and your story could appear on

930
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight eight

931
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 3: Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also find

932
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: me on Instagram at Danny Ryder. And if you'd like

933
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 3: to know more about the story that inspired this podcast,

934
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 3: check out my memoir Inheritance.

935
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

936
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.