1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from housetop work 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: dot com. What seems to be the problem. Well, so 3 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: the thing is, dr I am dead? Mm hmm, you're dead? 4 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: Well can you explain I'm I'm dead. My organs have 5 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: stopped working, They've ceased to function, my heart, my intestines, 6 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: my brain. That you're speaking to me right now, well, 7 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: I agree, I don't know how to explain that. I 8 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: guess I should be quiet, but I need to be 9 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: put in a grave. I'm registering a heartbeat, a pulse. 10 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: You're certainly breathing now. I think you're just getting the 11 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: sound of air moving through the empty skin, empty, I guess, 12 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: except for the bones. Everything else feels like it's gone. 13 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: It's rotten, melted away. Well, if this were the case, 14 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to think, or reason or or 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: even travel to my office and tell me these things. 16 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: Something isn't letting me die. Something not God, I mean, 17 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: not not God, but something. Anyway, doctor, I need you 18 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: to destroy my body, if that's possible. Hey, welcome to 19 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb 20 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: and my name is Joe McCormick. And that is an 21 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: odd scenario that most doctors probably would never find themselves in. 22 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: But it is actually not not just a fictional contrivance. 23 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: There have been scenarios where a doctor has had someone 24 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: show up at their office claiming not that they're dying, 25 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: but that they are dead. Yes, yeah, and it would 26 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it would be comedic if the examples of it, 27 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: the actual case studies, weren't so depressing and heartbreaking. And 28 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: then the condition itself we're not so real. Yeah. Um, 29 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: so this is going to be the subject of today's episode. 30 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: What it looks, What it's like to experience being dead 31 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: while still being alive. Yes, it is sometimes referred to 32 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: as Quatard's syndrome, also Qutard's delusion, and I think delusion 33 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: is more accurate based on the commentaries we've been reading 34 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: the idea that this is not a a specific affliction 35 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: so much as kind of an array of symptoms that 36 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: emerges from a few different conditions that can occur neurologically. 37 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 1: So let's go back into history where do we first 38 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: see this emerging? That the concept of someone who presents 39 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: to a doctor claiming to be dead yet from the 40 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: outside there obviously alive. Well, it's an interesting question, and 41 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: and some of the individuals who have tackled it have 42 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: certainly pointed to examples in myth and legend and saying, well, 43 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: this could possibly explain these scenarios. Um. However, it seems 44 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: to be that the earliest case of Qatar's delusion, even 45 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: though it was not known as Guitar's delusion yet, possibly 46 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: goes back to seventy sev UM. And this is when 47 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: Geneva naturalist and philosophical writer Charles Bonnet encountered what might 48 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: be the early example, earliest example the condition. Uh. And 49 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: this was a seventy year old, otherwise healthy woman who 50 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: upon experiencing something like a stroke. And this was after 51 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: a draft of air hit hit her in the neck, 52 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: according to the the studies. I read the same thing 53 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: there and she reported a draft of air hit her 54 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: in the neck and then she felt like a paralysis 55 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: across half her body and uh. And then she was 56 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: silent as a corpse for four days. And then when 57 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: she opened her mouth finally she demanded burial. That is 58 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: a strange thing to demand. Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, 59 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: it would be comedic if it weren't so serious. Um. 60 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, so she seemed to be under the real 61 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: persistent idea that she was no longer alive even while 62 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: she was alive to tell people this. Yeah, yeah, she so, 63 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: she she apparently, it's just very insistent of it, Like 64 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: it was very much like a delusion, like something again 65 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: that the individual that's believing it is it in completely 66 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: invested in it, completely convinced of its of this reality, 67 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: no matter how ridiculous it might seem to anyone on 68 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: the outside. It's like she became agitated, and she was 69 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: scolding her friends for for not for not doing it. 70 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: She she asked, she said, I'm not alive anymore. I 71 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: need to be buried. Um, you know. They they ended 72 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: up calling a doctor, and eventually everybody thought it was 73 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: necessary to dress her like a co warps and layer 74 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: layer out to calm her down, and they actually had 75 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: a sort of funeral for her, like they essentially had 76 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: to indulge in her delusion a bit just to to 77 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: calm her down, and and she eventually fell asleep and 78 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: was undressed and put to bed. But but yeah, how 79 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: do you even treat something like this? Certainly well, uh, 80 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: Bennet arrived on the scene and he treated her with quote, 81 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: a powder of precious stones mixed with opium. And I 82 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: guess it worked because he reported that she emerged from 83 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: her death delusion. But while she she gave up the 84 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: notion that she was dead. She then became became convinced 85 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: that she was in Norway with her daughter while she 86 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: was actually in Copenhagen the whole time, and insisted that 87 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: she needed to return to Copenhagen from Norway. Um And 88 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: during this time she was otherwise normal, but she could 89 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: not sweep without the opium, So sadly, she ended up 90 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: suffering the same condition every three months thereafter. So mean 91 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: a reprisal of the idea that she had already died, right, 92 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: the idea that she she had died would return, she'd 93 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: have to be talked out of it, and then she 94 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: would register surprise when she finally learned that she was 95 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: in fact alive. Now, I wonder what it's like, um, Like, 96 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: what what is the behavior of a person who truly 97 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: believes themselves to be dead? Like? What does that entail 98 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: for how they act? Well? It seems to vary from 99 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: case to case as we look at it, I mean 100 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: a lot of it seems to boil down to just 101 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: an essential breakdown in conception of self and identity. Instead 102 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: of like the like, we all walk around through our 103 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: lives with a de facto statement, I am alive. And 104 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, maybe being alive is fantastic, maybe it's not, 105 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: but we at least begin the sentence with I am alive. 106 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: It's sort of an axiom. Yeah, like you, you don't 107 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: need to debate this point. But for them, the accident 108 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: axiom is vacant. It's it's absent, and in its place 109 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: I am dead. I'm clearly not alive. I must be dead, 110 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: and then therefore x sometimes that excess clearly I must 111 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: be buried, or my body must be destroyed. Or in 112 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: some cases it's uh, I'm not alive and yet I exist. 113 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: Perhaps I have entered some deathless state, perhaps some afterlife, 114 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: some afterlife, etcetera. So it kind of varies depending on 115 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: what's going. The underlying conditions that are causing these symptoms 116 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: come into play as well, is presumably the the exact, 117 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: you know, worldview of the individual afflicted. Yeah. Another thing 118 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: that I've read about in many of the cases here 119 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: is a sort of denial of life sustaining activities like 120 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: the person seems to in many cases lose interest in 121 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: eating and going about their business as one normally would 122 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: and doing any of the things that would constitute a 123 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: life going on. Yeah, sleeping, it's etcetera. Um. Authors Hands 124 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: Forstal and Barbara Beats wrote about the the Benet case 125 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: for the British Journal of Psychiatry, and they theorized that 126 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: the idea of imminent death played a role in this too. Uh, 127 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: the the idea of imminent death during the old woman's 128 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: stroke overpowered her thoughts at least, and so she regained 129 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: full consciousness. Um So, so like while she was having 130 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: a stroke, she had the idea that she was dying, 131 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: and then in some sort of liminal state following the stroke, 132 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: she had not yet overcome the conclusion of that assumption. Yeah, 133 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean, because like if the last, if the last 134 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: experience you have with like a full consciousness and a 135 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: full conception of self is that of oh crap, I'm 136 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: about to die. Oh crap, something horrible is happening to 137 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: my body. And then when the then then the next 138 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: phase you exist in is this altered phase in which 139 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: some of your normal neural processes are adjusted. That maybe 140 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: the explanation you've all back on that at least is 141 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: one one theory. Here's a quote from what they had 142 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: to say. The most exceptional and strange ideas can gain 143 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: such acceptance if the mind is suddenly thrown from its 144 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: ordinary reasoning and forced into a new main idea. A 145 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: sudden physical disorder in the brain or a sudden violent 146 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: excitement can cause such a change there that we are 147 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: pushed beyond insight into its unreasonable nature, because we assume 148 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: to notice a correct functioning of our imagination, even in delusion, 149 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: which I love that because it I think one of 150 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: the things that's fascinating about delusions such as this with 151 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: other neurological conditions is that it not It not only 152 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: illustrates what is possible in terms of human perception of reality, 153 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: but also how ultimately ephemeral the quote unquote normal perception 154 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: of reality actually is. Well. Yeah, and it also I 155 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: think underlies our our inherent predisposition for a completely a 156 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: rational thinking um like Obviously, I don't mean this as 157 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: an indictment of people suffering from Catard's delusion. I'm not. 158 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to impugne their rationality, but this seems 159 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: to be a thing that's it's latent in the human brain. Uh, 160 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: the ability to hold thoughts that are impossible, because in 161 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: a strange way, this this is perhaps the most delusional 162 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: possible thought, like from a Cartesian point of view. And 163 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is, you know, so Renee 164 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: Decartes was trying to come up with an axiom that 165 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: he could start his deductive philosophy with, right, um, And 166 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: so he could start with like, well, I observe that 167 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: I'm in a room. But then you can't actually start 168 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 1: with observations, according to him, because there's no way you 169 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: can be certain you're not hallucinating every aspect of your surroundings. 170 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: But Decarter eventually said, you know what, I can start 171 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: with cogito ergo some I think, therefore I exist, because 172 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty much that is true by definition, 173 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: it cannot be false. So this syndrome is kind of 174 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: some form of the denial of the Cartesian axiom. It's 175 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: denying the thing that could not by definition be false. 176 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: I think, but I do not exist. Yeah, in this 177 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,599 Speaker 1: it would be the ultimate denial, the ultimate nihilism, right yeah. 178 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: And indeed this is uh, this is some of the 179 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: thinking that the namesake of French neurologist Jewels Qatard had 180 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: as well. So again this is this is where we 181 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: get the name. Obviously. Uh, the year was eighteen eighty, 182 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: so it's about a hundred years after the original KI. Yeah, 183 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: and it wasn't ye until later people piece that together. Um. 184 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: He received a most curious patient, okay, a forty three 185 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: year old woman who believed she had no brain, nerves, chest, 186 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: or entrails. She believed she was merely skin and bones 187 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: and it quote neither God nor the devil existed, and 188 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: that she no longer required food as she was quote 189 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: eternal and would live forever. So she requested to be 190 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: burned alive and attempted suicide several times thereafter, and then 191 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: eventually died of starvation. So this is a pretty pretty 192 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: severe and grim case. Well, so what did Quatard make 193 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: of this? Well, he initially saw it as an extreme 194 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: form of hypochondriasis, you know, hypochondriacts, and he he thought 195 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: that this is a this would occur during a severe 196 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: psychotic depression. And in many cases this delusion has been 197 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: linked strongly to depression, not not in every case, because 198 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: there are a lot of different scenarios that seem to 199 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: produce similar effects and delusions, but we do see that 200 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: as a recurring factor along with like near death or 201 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: some traumatic experience. But it has been often linked to 202 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: severe types of depression. And he He indeed is a 203 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: one that mentioned that tales of the wandering Jew might 204 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: be related to bits of myth that extend from such abouts. 205 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: So so he's thinking that cultural ideas like not not 206 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: just the hardware of the brain malfunctioning, but that software 207 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: running on the brain, you know, received ideas or informing 208 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: this syndrome or sorry, you shouldn't say syndrome the delusion. Well, 209 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: or at least that like these ideas of saying that 210 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: they're being an immortal, depressed wanderer out there in the 211 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: world might have some ties to this condition, that this 212 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: might be the nugget of truth behind such a concept, right, 213 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: if you're not familiar, the concept of the wandering Jew 214 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: is the idea that, of course uh in in the 215 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: New Testament, the Christ predicts that he will return to 216 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: Earth before everyone standing before him has passed away. Obviously 217 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: a lot of time has passed, and so one solution 218 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: to this textual problem is that people assumed that at 219 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: least one person standing there listening to Jesus was actually 220 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: essentially immortal and had continued to wander the earth since then. Yeah, 221 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: essentially cursed because some tellings the wandering Jew laughed at 222 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: Christ on the cross. Oh, I don't think i'd heard that. 223 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: That's that's the version I ran across recently. So it's 224 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of like Highlander, except more anti Semitic. So Inquitard's 225 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: later writings on the condition, he he described it as 226 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: a nihilistic delusion, a negation of everything, God, food, life 227 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: itself quote, a marked tendency to deny everything. Well, then 228 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: in this case, it would seem that the way that 229 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: we originally characterized it as the belief that one is 230 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: dead is actually not the not the overarching nature of this, 231 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: but it's sort of like one expression of it. Ultimately, 232 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,119 Speaker 1: as Qutard conceived it, it's just a denial of everything, 233 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: and the denial of one's own continuing life is one 234 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: facet of that. Right. Yeah, if if this absolute denial 235 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: enters your consciousness, then even if it's an altered consciousness, 236 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: then how do you make sense of it? Um? So 237 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: I assume he didn't name this this delusion after himself. No, No, 238 00:14:54,400 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: that wasn't until three uh Emil Regius coined the term 239 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: Qatard's syndrome, and it was made famous by Jules Sieglass, 240 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: who himself thought that it was all a severe anxious 241 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: melancholia rather than a distinct clinical condition. Now, of course, 242 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: if it were just two cases, that wouldn't be much 243 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: to go on. But of course there have been other 244 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: cases of Cotard's delusion, which we'll get to right after 245 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: this break. All right, we're back, alright, So, uh, there 246 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: have been more than just these two historical cases we 247 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: talked about. But it also is not an extremely common condition. Yeah, 248 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: it's exceedingly rare um and perhaps even more so in 249 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: the modern age, since swift treatment of the underlying psychotic 250 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: disorder uh typically occurs. And most studies related to Qatar's 251 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: delusion are, of course about a single patient. This is 252 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: not the kind of thing where a doctor is going 253 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: to encounter multiple Qatard's delusion patients, say with him, you know, 254 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: within the core of an entire lifetime, right Like here, 255 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: here's this one clinical encounter, Not like I recruited a 256 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: group of a hundred people suffering from Qatard's delusion, right, Yeah, 257 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: it's that this is, you know, one of those conditions. 258 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: It's super rare, probably, but it gets more attention because 259 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: it is so alarming. Um. In fact, some of you, 260 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: I know we have some Hannibal fans out there. There 261 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: was actually an episode of Hannibal where we had the 262 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: the sort of killer or character of the week with 263 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: somebody with quitards syndrome. Um. But I don't have a 264 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: clear enough memory of the episode two to do any 265 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: kind of critiquing of it of how they presented it. Well, so, 266 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: now that we've seen more cases showing up throughout history, 267 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: what are the most common symptoms, Like, how does this 268 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: delusion present itself most frequently? Claims of being dead obviously, 269 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: of organs missing or having rotten or melted away. Claims 270 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: of a missing brain. Oh yeah, I saw that one 271 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: with the guy who said I don't have a brain. 272 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain this, but I just 273 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: don't have one. Claims of course of being I didn't 274 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: see any encounter where someone actually said hey, I'm a 275 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: zombie or I am a litch or something. But that 276 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: is they basically explained undeadness. Yeah, they basically are like 277 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: I'm not alive, I'm dead. But I'm also in some 278 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: sort of protected state, as if in some cases it's 279 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: there are a few cases will look at where that 280 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: where the individual is saying like, God won't let me die. 281 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: But then other times they're just they're just totally negating 282 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: God or the devil as well. So, yeah, there's this 283 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: sense of what, you know, what what a a Dungeons 284 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: and dragons um A fan might term litch um, the 285 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: idea that you're not dead, you're not alive, but somehow 286 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: death is given you a either a cursed or elevated status. Well, 287 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: let's look at some more modern examples of what this 288 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: actually looks like in people who present with it. Okay, well, 289 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: one interesting case, and we're not going to touch on 290 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: all of them, because even though it is rare, there 291 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: have been multiple cases. Some of them just aren't particularly 292 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: noteworthy or or provide much illumination for our purposes here. 293 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: But in two thousand four, there was a case of 294 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: an individual by the name of Graham Harrison, and he 295 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: attempted suicide by empty entering a bathtub with an electrical appliance. 296 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: And the next thing he knew is he awoke in 297 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: the hospital and he thought he was dead. So in 298 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: this we see we definitely see elements of the traumatic 299 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: like occurrence, the near death event, and then waking up 300 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: with this condition. And he was indeed diagnosed with Guitard's delusion. 301 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: But most interestingly, given the time in which this took 302 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: place in the hostile environment, it allowed doctors an unprecedented 303 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: uh PET scan peek into the brain of the deathly 304 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: deluded here. Oh, so they could get some imaging results 305 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: see how the brain of a person experiencing this delusion 306 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: looks compared to someone who's not. Yeah, at least in 307 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: this particular patient. Yeah, And they found that his brain 308 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: wave patterns were were vegetative despite his being awake, so 309 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: he had very low metabolic activity across large areas of 310 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: the frontal and parietal brain regions. Some of his this 311 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: expanse related to the default mode network, which we've covered before. 312 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: This is the you know, the constant chatter in your 313 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: your head that's uh, you know, questions about the and 314 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: worries about the past in future, that sort of thing. 315 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: But also the regions afflicted here uh were involved in 316 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: formulating theory of mind. Now, one of the researchers who 317 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: worked on this case, who was interviewed in an article 318 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: and New Scientists about it. Stephen Lori's of the University 319 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: of Louisian, Belgium said that the pet scan results were 320 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: essentially what you'd expect to see in someone who is 321 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: asleep or under general anesthesia. Like you know, so you 322 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: mentioned the low metabolism. It was as if the brain 323 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: had sort of been shut down. And however, the researchers 324 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: also cautioned that this scan could be affected by the 325 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: antidepressants he was taking, So you know, we shouldn't draw 326 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: too many conclusions from one case, right, but apparently something 327 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: had happened to his sense of self. Yes, inde, that's 328 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: what's really interesting here, and that's that's what we're going 329 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: to see reflected in some of the other cases. We're 330 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: gonna look at this idea that that the brain's ability 331 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: to conceive self, uh, and and and and indeed to 332 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: conceive the identity of others is what is afflicted here. Um. Now, Luckily, 333 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: in the case of Harrison here, thanks to psychotherapy and 334 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: drug treatment, he was eventually able to overcome these symptoms 335 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: and return to something of a normal life. And there's 336 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: actually an interview with him in New scientists from a 337 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: few years back. You can find it Mindscapes First Interview 338 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: with a dead Man. Yeah, and I was just gonna 339 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: say that it's an interesting read worth checking out. Now. 340 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: In some of these papers, I found reference to an 341 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: individual who wanted to erase their body with acid, but 342 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to track down a particular study on 343 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: that one. But there were some other interesting cases that 344 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: came up, But one of which was a two thousand 345 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: five I ran i in case covered in the article. 346 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: This is a telling title covered in the study coexistence 347 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: of lacanthropy and Qtard syndrome in a single case. Wait, lacanthropy, 348 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: that's werewolf syndrome andn't indeed, Yeah, something you don't really 349 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: expect to pop up in a in a serious psychological paper. Now, 350 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: in the clinical definition, I think like canthropy is what 351 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 1: the belief that one has been transformed into an animal 352 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: or behaviors indicating such a belief, right, Yeah, so we're 353 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: not talking about actual transformation into a wolf for a 354 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: dog or what have you. Uh. This individual is a 355 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: thirty two thirty two year old man who arrived at 356 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: the hospital and complained a that he was dead and 357 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: be that he had turned into a dog both yea, 358 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: and that the same was true of his wife and daughters. 359 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: Well that I think. He claimed that his wife had 360 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: been turned into a dog and that his daughters had 361 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: been turned into sheep. That's right, So his delusion of 362 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: zoological transformation extended to his family, but not necessary really 363 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: the same animal. Now. I claimed that his relatives had 364 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: tried to poison him as well. Yeah, I think by 365 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: putting cyanide in his tea. Well, that's one tactic to employ. 366 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: And he also claimed that God protected him even in 367 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: this undead form, which which is interesting. It ties back 368 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: into this this theme we see again and again that 369 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: they're they're dead, but somehow undying. So what did the 370 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: study conclude about this patient? Well, here's the here's the quote. 371 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: A patient meeting a d s M for criteria for 372 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: bipolar mood disorder mixed type with psychotic feature had the 373 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: delusion of being transformed into a dog. He was also 374 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: deluded that he was dead. He was restless, and had 375 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: a serious sense of guilt about a previous sexual contact 376 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: with a sheep. Coexistence of lecanthropy and Cotard syndrome has 377 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: not been reported before and this patient, zoophilic orientation assorted 378 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: associated with a sense of guilt were concluded to be 379 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: important factors causing his delusions. So he had also like 380 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: some guilt going on about a zoophilic encounter. Essentially, yes, 381 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: that's that's what the paper is getting at. So a 382 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: rather disturbing case all around. I think everyone will agree. 383 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: But it's interesting because we're seeing this delusion here. In 384 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: this case, perhaps have causes that are less tied to 385 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: physical trauma and more to just like severe guilts of 386 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: your psychological trauma over over a past incident. Uh. Matt 387 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: Soniac has a great blog post about this at Matt 388 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: Sonia soni Act. That's m A T T s O 389 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: in I A k dot com uh, and he adds 390 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: that quote in Persian folklore, the dog is both the 391 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: symbol of loyalty and a symbol of impureeness. The man's 392 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: sexual history was sheep, coupled with his desire to protect 393 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: his sheep daughters and many dogs roles as herders and 394 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: protectors of flocks, adds another layer of paradox. So this 395 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: is another thing perhaps comparable to whether this is sumption 396 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: was correct or not. The The original assumption of Qatar that, 397 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: like the Wandering Jew, mythology could figure into the presentation 398 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: of this delusion. Here, it's saying like cultural ideas or 399 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: beliefs or sort of received associations can also play a 400 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: role in how this delusion is manifest because you have 401 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: a condition that is causing these symptoms, and then the 402 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: mind has to somehow make sense of the symptoms that 403 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: it's working with, and for that you often need to 404 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: be able to you have to call on cultural motifs 405 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: or some some bit of mythology, or some some at 406 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: least vague concept of what it means to not be yourself, 407 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: what it means to not be alive. Yeah, So a 408 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: lot of the the cases we've talked about so far, 409 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: cases where the information we have comes from uh well 410 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: and in one case at least an interview, but mostly 411 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: from sort of clinical observation. So researchers are looking at 412 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: these patients and at the symptoms they're presenting and trying 413 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: to describe them for for the scientific literat sure, but 414 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: I think it's also important to try to get a 415 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: picture from people's own first person perspective. So, first of all, 416 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: there's an article in the Washington Post in November about 417 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: card guitard syndrome and one of the people that tells 418 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: the story of in the article is is this this 419 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: woman as Mayway Jun Wang and Uh and in thirteen 420 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: she came to the conclusion that she was dead. According 421 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: to the article, Wang lost consciousness during a long flight 422 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: from London to San Francisco, and her doctor has never 423 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: found any explanation for the incident. But afterward she began 424 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: to experience increasingly strange symptoms of of distress and disorientation psychosis, 425 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: losing her sense of reality, and about a month later, 426 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: she woke up one morning with a new consciousness of 427 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: her situation. And I'm going to quote from the article 428 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: uh quote she gives to them quote. I was convinced 429 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: that I had died on that flight, that I was 430 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: in the afterlife, and hadn't realized it until that moment, 431 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: said Wang, now thirty two, who has convinced her husband 432 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: and their dog Daphne, were dead as well. And then 433 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: her quote continues, that was the beginning of when I 434 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: was convinced that I was dead, But I wasn't upset 435 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: about it because I thought I could do things in 436 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: my life over and do them better. But her condition 437 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: did worsen from there. So Whang wrote an essay called 438 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: Perdition Days that she posted online about her experience. And 439 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: I read this and I really recommend reading it because 440 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: it's a really interesting um and I would say, very 441 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: well written description of of what it's like first person 442 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: to have this kind of experience. So in the essay, 443 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: she describes how when she first discovered she was dead 444 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: and living in some sort of afterlife, she felt happy, 445 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: but this soon decayed into a state of misery where 446 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: she began to believe that she was living in a 447 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: form of perdition, which is a state of punishment or hell. 448 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: And she writes quote, during the perdition days, which had 449 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: no rhythm to them, I could not summon the motivation 450 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: to do anything. I would not eat, I often would 451 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: not move. I would not attempt to read or answer 452 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: an email or have a conversation because there is no 453 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: point in doing anything when in perdition. Instead, there is 454 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: only horror and a physical agitation that refuses to manifest 455 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: physically for a lack of motivation. But it does line 456 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: up with these other examples. We've looked at this sense 457 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: that it's it's not nearly waking up and saying, oh, 458 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: I think I'm dead. It's this you feel it odds 459 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: with everything in your world, like again, kind of getting 460 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: into that negation of everything, that ultimate nihilism though that 461 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: almost puts to defined, uh a definition on it, you know, 462 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: like it seems like it's it's basically again, it comes 463 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: down to your left with this just in human feeling 464 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: and you have to make something human out of it 465 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: or attempt to with with what you had to work with. Yeah, 466 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: so it's obvious that these these cases. And by the way, 467 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: I do recommend that the listeners read this essay Perdition Days, 468 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: because I think it's really good. Will include a link 469 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: to that as well as the other interview on the 470 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: landing page for this uh this episode is stuff to 471 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: buy your mind dot com. But also I think we 472 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: should be asking the question of, well, wait a minute, if, 473 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: if what you're just saying is true, Robert, you know 474 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: there's this problem with UM, this collection of symptoms being 475 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: kind of only very vague and loosely associated while certainly 476 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: very real. Um, are are we talking about one coherent 477 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: thing when we talk about Guitard's delusion, or instead, are 478 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: we sort of are are we fabricating the connective tissue 479 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: that's holding all these cases together? Yeah? So this is 480 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: this is something that really throughout the history of Guitard's 481 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: delusion or Guitard syndrome, you see time and time again. 482 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: Is it a true syndrome or is it just a 483 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: delutional state that emerges from various other conditions. Now we're 484 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 1: certainly not questioning the reality of the experiences of the 485 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,959 Speaker 1: individual people how having this, uh these experiences, But what 486 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: are we saying is essentially is it one thing or 487 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: are these different things that we're trying to group together 488 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,239 Speaker 1: under the same heading. Right, So it's kind of like, 489 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: in a broad sense, you have hallucinations, but there are 490 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: various forms of hallucinations, and there are myriad reasons for 491 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: why one would experience a hallucination. So is this the 492 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: case where Guitard's delusion is simply something that emerges due 493 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: to various causes? Well, one thing, and I think there's 494 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: a strong case to be made for them. Okay, Yeah, Well, 495 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: one thing we could do to sort of sort of 496 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: help unify or understanding of it is to look at 497 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: the cause and effect situation. It has there been a 498 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: cause isolated by the researchers who work on this. Uh, 499 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: is there something they can point to to say, yeah, 500 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: we think when we see coutar this is the most 501 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: likely cause. Well, based on the resources I was looking 502 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: at there a number of researchers seemed to think that 503 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: it boils down to to misfiring in the fusiform face 504 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: areas of the brain. Now what is that? So these 505 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: are areas involved in facial recognition as well, and also 506 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: misfirings in the amigola, which matches emotional response to all 507 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: those faces. So again we're getting back to that idea 508 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: of the brain's ability to deal with self, to deal 509 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: with identities, and to then attribute appropriate emotional responses to 510 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: those identifications. Um so how how would this be man 511 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: So if you're if you're having trouble recognizing faces and 512 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: feeling the correct emotional reactions to them. Um, how would 513 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: this manifest as a belief that one was dead or 514 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: had lost your existence or identity? Well, you can think 515 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: of like one way to think of it is to 516 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: think of use of a mirror. And again, this is 517 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: not saying that that Cotard's delusion depends on an individual 518 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: visual looking in a mirror. But if you have if 519 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: you're having, if you're experiencing a lack of emotion and 520 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: viewing faces UH and a resulting attachment, and then you 521 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: view your own face in a mirror, well then that 522 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,239 Speaker 1: could lead to this startling detachment between your sense of 523 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: self and the project itself in the mirror. So, in short, 524 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: you cease to see yourself as you you end up 525 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: you do not exist. It's kind of like the Medusa 526 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: staring into the being confronted with a mirror. Do you 527 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: just feel that you have turned to stone? Yeah? Yeah, exactly. So. 528 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: One thing I came across when reading about this is 529 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: that there seemed to be a wide range of different 530 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: treatment options that have been tried. The Washington Post article 531 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier spoke with a psychiatrist named Jesus Ramirez 532 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: Bermudez at the National Institute of Neurology and Neurosurgery in Mexico, 533 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: and he says he's treated at least fourteen patients with 534 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: UH with the Coutard's delusion using a combination of medication 535 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: and psychotherapy. Yeah, and that that seems to be UM 536 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: the situation you run across that UM, it's coming back 537 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: around to the to the the idea that Cotard syndrome 538 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: again has not it's it's a it's a battery of 539 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: symptoms that emerge from a from different causes, and so 540 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, you can't really treat the symptoms. You can 541 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: try and control the symptoms, but it's going to vary, 542 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, depending on what is actually causing them and 543 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: and whether that's being addressed or not. So you see 544 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: anti depressants, anty psychotics, and even electro convulsive therapy uh 545 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: resulting in some benefits from time to time. Now, when 546 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: we mentioned disorders of the recognition of faces, this does 547 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: seem related to another type of delusion I've read about before, 548 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: the cap Graw delusion. Yeah, yeah, and this is one 549 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: that I've at least written about in the past. I 550 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 1: can't remember if I've done any podcast content on it. 551 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: I think maybe Josh and Chuck have. But it's it's 552 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: a delusional identification syndrome, which generally involves right brain anomalies 553 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: linked to a number of illnesses and neurological disorders, ranging 554 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: from schizo effective disorder and Alzheimer's disease to severe head injuries, 555 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,719 Speaker 1: pituitary tumors, and migraines. Even alcoholism can play a role, 556 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: but it basically entails the experience of doppelgangers, thinking that basically, 557 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: you encounter individuals in your life, maybe they're even family members, 558 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: but suddenly you see them, but there's this mix up 559 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: in identity. So you see them, but you think they 560 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: are not themselves. You think that, and then if you 561 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: try and make sense of that, while they have been replaced, 562 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: these are replis. That's how I've heard it explain, is 563 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: that you you recognize the person, but you don't think 564 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: they're really them. Yeah, you know, my family has been 565 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: replaced by impostors. Yeah, so they're there. Definitely seems to 566 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: be some strong connective tissue between these two scenarios, again 567 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: getting back to that idea that it's a disruption of 568 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: the ability to process self and identity. Now, in researchers 569 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: ge Barrios and are A Luke presented three different possible 570 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: categorizations for Cadard's solusion uh and this was following their 571 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: analysis of two d public cations um uh you know, 572 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: concerning Guitard's syndrome or delusion. So they they said one 573 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: their psychotic depression and this includes patients where uh where 574 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: where there's this overhanging sense of melancholy and in this 575 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: uh in these nihilistic delusions emerge. And then there's Guitard 576 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: type one, they said, which includes patients that represent a 577 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: clear case of Guitard syndrome, but more specifically, the delusion 578 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: is is prominent in comparison to the depressive picture um 579 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: that we already mentioned. And then there's a Gutard type two, 580 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: a mixed group, and this is where they patients of 581 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 1: demonstrate anxiety, depression, and even auditory allusions as well. So 582 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 1: even so, basically the take home here is that if 583 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: you if you start breaking it down, it's it's not 584 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: even that that Qutard's delusion of Quatard syndrome is like 585 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: one set of thing, you know, it maybe three different things. 586 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: It's a it's kind of depending on it's a battery 587 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: of symptoms, and that exact battery of symptoms will differ 588 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: from one page into another. Seems like it might be 589 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of a what what a working theory, like a 590 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: working categorization technique. Yeah, yeah, I think so, because overall 591 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: the delusion has been reported as a symptom or or again, 592 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: a battery of symptoms, in a number of different underlying conditions, 593 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: including migraine, uh neoplasms of the parietal cortex uh serbovascular disease, 594 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: and epilepsy, trauma, acute toxic phase of typhoid fever, multiple sclerosis. Wow. Yeah, 595 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: again with with such a range of causes and such 596 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 1: a range of different specific presentations, it makes me wonder, 597 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: yet again, is this really one thing? Yeah? And and 598 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: I think I think that the case is very strong 599 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: that it is not that it is that this is 600 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: this is something emerges from various conditions. One thing that 601 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: makes me think about, and I mentioned it a couple 602 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: of times so far, is the role of beliefs in 603 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: the four Nation of delusions. We mentioned it with the 604 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: Wandering Jew and with the the idea of permit perdition. Um. 605 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: So there's sort of like the hardware versus software formulations 606 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: of brain function. Right, So if you imagine hardware is 607 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: the physical and chemical activity of the brain and the 608 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: software or your thoughts and beliefs. Um. When I read 609 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 1: literature about um mental conditions or any disorder of the brain, 610 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: it often seems theorized in terms of hardware malfunction, and 611 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: there is some kind of malfunctioning of the hardware of 612 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: the brain that is producing negative effects in the software. 613 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: But I keep thinking about the way the software feeds 614 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: back into how the hardware works. Like again, um that 615 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: the things we mentioned so far. One thing I thought 616 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: was interesting in Wine's essay, she mentions that she came 617 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,959 Speaker 1: to believe that she was living in perdition even though 618 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: she had never been a Christian, but that was still apparently, 619 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that was still obviously a script that was 620 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 1: available to her. It's kind of like individuals who who 621 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: experience some sort of supernatural occurrence um, paranormal event, and 622 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: then there they have to make sense of it. So 623 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: they have a few different scripts they can go to 624 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: if if they if they want. Yeah. Another experience that 625 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: I think is interesting here in terms of how this 626 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: reads on beliefs is the reports of people sort of 627 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: recognizing the illogical nature of what they're being told and 628 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: yet being unable to stop believing it. Like when people 629 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: say I'm dead and someone says to them, but you're 630 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: walking around and you're talking dead. People can't do that. Uh. 631 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: It seems that some of these people who who experience 632 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: Guitard's delusion, they recognize that they're like, oh, yeah, you know, 633 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: I that's true that dead people can't walk around and stuff, 634 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: But yet it is a fact that I'm dead, Like 635 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: that is a primary, uh you know, prima facie conclusion. Yeah, 636 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just a situation where you can 637 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: talk somebody out of it and therefore it Yeah, it's 638 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: it is interesting to think of it in terms of 639 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: the hardware software, because there are these these clear cases 640 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: where it's like, all right, clearly there's there's damage to 641 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: the brains, some sort of trauma occurred, stroke like scenario, etcetera, 642 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: and then that messed up the software. But in other 643 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: cases it seems like it might be pure software, such 644 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: as the case of the the the Iranian um um 645 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: man who thought he was both you know, I mean 646 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: not to say there's not some potential physical trauma going 647 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: on there as well, that was either uh, you know, 648 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: underreported or not reported. But still, you know, one of 649 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: the scariest and most troubling things about this delusion is 650 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 1: that in some forms of it, it seems like medical 651 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: science is having difficulty helping people. In other cases, people 652 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: do seem to have been able to get treatment that 653 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: achieved a positive conclusion. In Wayne's essay again, she she 654 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: talks about meeting with her doctors and feeling to spare 655 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: at the idea that they really didn't have any way 656 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: that they could cure this. They were just talking about, like, well, 657 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: how much of her life would she have to live, Uh, 658 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: feeling these heightened states of psychosis as opposed to relatively 659 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: milder periods, And uh, that's just such a horrible thing 660 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 1: to have to be told. I mean, not like it's 661 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: the doctor's fault, um, but I would hope that this 662 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: is something that we can make progress on. You know, 663 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: when people talk about about curing diseases, about medical progressing 664 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: curing diseases, they're almost always talking about somatic illnesses, people 665 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: having you know, cancer or other problems, And of course 666 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,439 Speaker 1: those are worth addressing too, But I but I think 667 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: it's really important to help keep up hope for the 668 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,240 Speaker 1: for the alleviation and curing of mental illnesses. I agree, 669 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: I agree. So, hey, that's it for this episode. But 670 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: we know that this probably stirred a number of thoughts 671 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: from our listeners, and hey, it's not it's not impossible 672 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: that somebody out there listening to this has second or 673 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: even firsthand experience with with the Qatar's delusions. So if 674 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: you if you do, if you have, get in touch 675 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: with us, we would love to hear from you. If 676 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: you want to learn more about Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 677 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: If you want to check out past episodes of the podcast, 678 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: check out some videos, blog posts, etcetera. Head on over 679 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. You also 680 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: find find links out to our social media accounts there, 681 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Instagram. If there is there's 682 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: a particular social media thing that you use, seek us 683 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: out there, follow us. And another great way to support 684 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: the show is, uh, hey, wherever you listen to us, 685 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: if there's an ability to to rank us, to to 686 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: give us a star rating, leave some feedback, leave us 687 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,240 Speaker 1: some positive feedback, leave us and absurdly high star rating. 688 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: That helps out the algorithms and helps out the show. Yeah, 689 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: be sure to lie about how great we are. I mean, 690 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: be be truthful, but then just go above and beyond, 691 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: because you've got to make up to the other people. 692 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: For you have to make up for the other people 693 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: who are who are not who are lying a lot 694 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: and they say or south there. You just gotta get 695 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: to balance it and the only way to balance it 696 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: is to give us five stars. That's just that's just fact. 697 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: Of course, we we only want the most honest feedback anyway. 698 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 1: Of course, if you want to get in touch with us, 699 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: as always to let us know topics you might let us, 700 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: might want us to cover in the future, or feedback 701 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: on this episode or any other, or or responses to 702 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: any of the prompts we asked you in this episode. 703 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: You can always email us that blow the mind at 704 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and 705 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is that how stuff works dot com. 706 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: Joy to pot the potto prop