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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: slash chuck. Hello there, Welcome to my I guess you

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Speaker 1: could call it the third what If episode, although it

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Speaker 1: was I gave you a two parter in the first

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Speaker 1: what if of this holiday season, which was the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty what ifs.

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Speaker 2: I knew, we knew there'd be a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wanted to go through them, and it was necessary,

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Speaker 1: but it was a really healthy exercise. I hope you

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Speaker 1: got I got a lot out of it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the big conclusion, as I said, before for me and

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Speaker 1: I still am carrying this is just how much Biden's

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Speaker 1: presidency essentially got completely changed in the post election environment,

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Speaker 1: right and more so, you know, I think the initial

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Speaker 1: motivation for doing the what if on twenty twenty was,

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Speaker 1: you know, how different was would Trump two point zero

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Speaker 1: b as a continuation of his first term versus with

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Speaker 1: the And.

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Speaker 2: There's no doubt it is.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of large differences, and there certainly

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Speaker 1: I think would be there would be less upheaval. I

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Speaker 1: think that was the But I really think, I really

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Speaker 1: think what turned out to be an underrated part of

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Speaker 1: the what if it was doing the other what if,

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Speaker 1: which is what if Trump had conceded gracefully? How much

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Speaker 1: that would have ended the era of Trump right then?

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Speaker 1: Because we know how those worlds plays in some ways.

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Speaker 1: Trump's own personal instinct of his fear of being sort

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Speaker 1: of eradicated from history or filed into the dustbin of history,

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Speaker 1: you know, his need to not be erased is so

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Speaker 1: great that he sort of almost singularly created a new

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Speaker 1: timeline for himself. And it was very impactful both on

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Speaker 1: the Biden presidency itself and of course Trump two point zero.

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Speaker 1: So there's no doubt, you know, when you it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting I think you.

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Speaker 2: Look.

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Speaker 1: There's no overrating Trump's initial victory in twenty sixteen. But

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Speaker 1: in some ways the changes Trump is making to the

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Speaker 1: presidency to our politics are more impactful, not because of

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Speaker 1: his twenty sixteen election but because of his twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: loss and his behavior around it. Anyway, it is apascitating.

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Speaker 1: So in that spirit, the other big what if that

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Speaker 1: got a ton of requests sort of like even you

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Speaker 1: know people would submit it, which was a what if

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven hadn't happened? Meaning and really the more

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Speaker 1: realistic version of this is what if we had stopped it?

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Speaker 1: Which we were very close, right, we could have easily seen.

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Speaker 1: You know, we learned a lot lesson about stove piping

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Speaker 1: of intelligence, but you know, the bread crumbs were there

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Speaker 1: if we were looking, if we knew to look for

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Speaker 1: those bread crumbs, about the Saudi citizens going to fight

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Speaker 1: schools and all of that. So and sure it looks

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Speaker 1: easy to see. Oh that needle in that haystack was

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Speaker 1: so easy to see. How did they miss it? Or

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Speaker 1: it's possible maybe Bill Clinton gets bin laden when he

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Speaker 1: takes the shot at him back in ninety eight during

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Speaker 1: the middle of the Lewinski thing. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: dive into that, because I do think what's interesting about

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven was it's is that it you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a phrase that got said all the time.

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Speaker 1: Nine to eleven changed everything, and it did change a

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Speaker 1: lot of things, And so I think it is hard

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Speaker 1: to try to figure out the counterfactual of what would

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Speaker 1: have happened.

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Speaker 2: Without nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: What does Bush presidency look like with No.

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Speaker 2: Nine to eleven? What does the Democratic Party look like

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Speaker 2: with No. Nine to eleven? You know, and what does

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Speaker 2: the media world look like with No. Nine to eleven?

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to get to that in a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: So look, to start out, I think it's a way

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Speaker 1: to say this, nine to eleven didn't just change what

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Speaker 1: we covered. It also changed how we consumed information, and

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Speaker 1: in some ways, I think we're going to discover it

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Speaker 1: accelerated sort of the attention, the the the importance of

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Speaker 1: the intention economy, because you know what nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: did to our psyche as a country, right, we always felt,

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Speaker 1: you know, look, the only time we were attacked before

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Speaker 1: then really was Pearl Harbor Hawhy wouldn't even a state

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Speaker 1: when that happened. We've never been truly hit on the homeland,

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Speaker 1: right on the continental United States. Yes, there had been

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Speaker 1: a bomb, a bombing of the World Trade Center in

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety three, and we've certainly had our sheriff terrorist

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Speaker 1: attacks and hijackings. We had the Oklahoma City bombing, which

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Speaker 1: was domestic terrorism. So it's not as if we didn't

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Speaker 1: have these things. But this was a what a form

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Speaker 1: sort of a non state foreign power right in Al Qaeda,

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Speaker 1: and it really rattled our psyche because it we were

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Speaker 1: suddenly our vulnerabilities just showed up everywhere, and we realized

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Speaker 1: how vulnerable we were to essentially asymmetric warfare, how vulnerable

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Speaker 1: we could be to terrorism. I mean, I know my

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Speaker 1: feeling on October one, two thousand and one, was that Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC was going to feel like Tel Aviv in the

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, where you just or even Berlin back then,

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Speaker 1: you just sort of had to accept the premise that

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Speaker 1: there were going to be more attacks. The most remarkable

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Speaker 1: thing that happened post nine to eleven is what didn't

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Speaker 1: happen post nine eleven, right, And the point was is

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Speaker 1: that I think it was our own Why did we

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Speaker 1: feel why did I feel that way? Why did we

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Speaker 1: all feel like we were so vulnerable? Because that initial

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Speaker 1: sense of oh my god, they turned our own systems

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Speaker 1: against us, right the airline are you know, domestic airplanes

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Speaker 1: something any of us could have been on. And so

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Speaker 1: it really had a psychological impact on us as a society.

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Speaker 1: So what happened we sort of we sort of clung

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Speaker 1: to information. Right, It's what really turned the three news

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Speaker 1: channels into twenty four hour Like, if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 1: not all the channels programmed twenty four hours a day.

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Speaker 1: After nine to eleven, there was an intensity to program

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day. I was at the hotline

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Speaker 1: at the time. We added publications. We called something we

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Speaker 1: added something called Hotline World Extra because we were just

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Speaker 1: all so consumed with this network of terrorists that we're

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Speaker 1: just going to hobble societies all over the world. And

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Speaker 1: we certainly, you know, all of us got a lesson

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Speaker 1: in in extremism, in general religious extremism. So it was

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Speaker 1: the point being is that we we really it changed,

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Speaker 1: it changed our own psyche and I and that's so

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Speaker 1: in doing this, what I've exercised, I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: my best here. It is really hard. This turned out

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Speaker 1: to be a much harder attempt at what I'm going

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Speaker 1: to What I was trying to do is is it's

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Speaker 1: my way of saying, like I said before, I'm there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot more questions asked than definitive takes.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have some theories of directionally where we could

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Speaker 1: have come. But I want that initial underscoring of just

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Speaker 1: the real impact of nine to eleven was psychological on us,

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Speaker 1: and in some ways a question that I want that

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Speaker 1: I'm pursued throughout this what if exercise that I put

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Speaker 1: together was how much of our information ecosystem problems of

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Speaker 1: today began with both our desire for more information constantly

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Speaker 1: frankly to make us feel better because we felt so

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Speaker 1: unsafe and insecure. And when you do, you're just constantly

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Speaker 1: seeking more information. Right if you've ever been prepared for

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Speaker 1: a snowstorm or a hurricane, and you know a big

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Speaker 1: storm is coming but you hadn't hit yet, and you're waiting,

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Speaker 1: what do you do? You keep looking for more information.

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Speaker 1: You want a more detailed forecast, more detailed what if

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Speaker 1: scenario is basically because it's really your own survival instinct.

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Speaker 1: It's human nature where the more information we have, the

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Speaker 1: more we think in our own heads, we can plan

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Speaker 1: for our survival in these things. So I cannot underscore

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Speaker 1: how that is the through line for me that I

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Speaker 1: think that this is, this is what what sort of

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Speaker 1: really changes changes things because and there are some things

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Speaker 1: that I don't think change at all, the dot com bubble,

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Speaker 1: things like that. So let's start with the America of

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Speaker 1: two thousand. That keeps breathing is probably the best way

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Speaker 1: to put it. We're still so we're living in this

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Speaker 1: post Cold War home. There is concern at this point

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Speaker 1: it's early odts. There is there's been a transition in

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Speaker 1: Russian leadership.

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Speaker 2: Is this guy.

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Speaker 1: Putin going to be you know, a small D democrat

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Speaker 1: or not? And the keeping Russia in the West was

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Speaker 1: a priority before nine to eleven I think would have

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Speaker 1: stayed a priority with Bush two under that scenario, I

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Speaker 1: don't know whether it succeeds or not. Right, if Putin

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Speaker 1: is who he is, which we now, if you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if anything in the relationship

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Speaker 1: changes Putin.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The question I have is when does you know, by

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight Putin's invading Georgia, which in some

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Speaker 1: ways was the precursor to Ukraine First Crime in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: In that, does that accelerate, does that get delayed? Does

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Speaker 1: the you know, our focus on all things nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven and Islamic terrorism and domestic security, which then took

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Speaker 1: our eye off the ball a little bit of European security,

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Speaker 1: of keeping Russia in the west, of sort of these

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Speaker 1: fledgling Eastern European democracies. I think it's fair to say

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Speaker 1: that that probably is the biggest you know that and

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Speaker 1: bringing China along, right, because at this point everybody's very

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Speaker 1: bullish on China. In early two thousand, late nineties, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a huge difference between Gore and Bush and that

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Speaker 1: two thousand campaign on China. It was a little bit

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Speaker 1: of rhetoric, but not too much. Essentially, both were were institutionalists.

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Speaker 1: Both were believers that, hey, bringing economic opening, the opening

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Speaker 1: the China economy will ultimately be good for democracy, good

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Speaker 1: for freedom, et cetera. So there was a bipartisan consensus

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Speaker 1: in China, which we now know we all got wrong. Right,

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Speaker 1: There was this bipartisan consensus that China, that essentially we

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Speaker 1: were going to be able to bring China along and

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Speaker 1: eventually the communism Communist Party would break there because of

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Speaker 1: middle class demands for the state, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: None of that has turned out to be true. China

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Speaker 1: was able to somehow bring the country into a controlled

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Speaker 1: market economy. It's not a free market, but it's a

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Speaker 1: it is sort of they got into it right, and

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Speaker 1: we let them in because of the desire to get

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Speaker 1: American businesses into China. So I do think that we're

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Speaker 1: sort of pursuing and it's much more front and center

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Speaker 1: this bringing China along, you know, and maybe there's maybe

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Speaker 1: there's more of that. I do think, by the way,

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush's presidency was going to be much more

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Speaker 1: focused on the Western hemisphere pre nine to eleven. Here

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Speaker 1: was a guy, and we probably try to attempt some

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Speaker 1: massive immigration reform sooner in the Bush presidency, easily that happens,

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Speaker 1: I think in Bush one. In the first term. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if there's a second, right, we don't know

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Speaker 1: what the second term is over. It's probably over the

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Speaker 1: economy in some form or another, because most elections are

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Speaker 1: unless there is something essentially overwhelming the economic issue in America,

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Speaker 1: which sometimes it's war in the war in Iraq nine eleven.

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Speaker 1: Those are types of stories that do that. But I

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Speaker 1: do think I go back to the information ecosystem. You know,

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven happened nine months after the delayed two

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Speaker 1: thousand election, and I do think that without nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: we're probably in a much more polarized political environment in Washington.

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Speaker 1: We cannot forget that there's still a lot of Democrats

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Speaker 1: who don't accept that Bush one Farnce Square. After nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven, those you know that none of that became mainstream, right.

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Speaker 1: Al Gore is a bigger figure inside the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: pre nine eleven than he is post nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: Probably means al Gore is more likely to be the nominee,

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Speaker 1: you know, four, it's more likely without a nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven he is a bit more front and center Democrats

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Speaker 1: are a bit more, a bit less willing to work

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Speaker 1: with Bush. There is and Bush has to make more

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Speaker 1: effort to sort of get legitimacy. You know that that

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Speaker 1: was you know his you know after look we we

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Speaker 1: you know. The Bush presidency basically began on September eleventh,

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Speaker 1: as far as history is concerned, but we forget this

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Speaker 1: was this was a this was a presidency that was

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Speaker 1: having to immediately make the case that it was legitimate.

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Speaker 1: It was the first presidency we'd had in the modern

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Speaker 1: era that won via the electoral college, not the popular vote.

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Speaker 1: The recounts of Florida that the media was doing would

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Speaker 1: have been extraordinarily more covered and consequential without nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: It took all about anywhere from nine to months to

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Speaker 1: twelve months. Those things still happened, but there was almost

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Speaker 1: like they looked more like political science experiments than they

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Speaker 1: did mainstream news stories. Because I think again, so much,

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Speaker 1: so much of the resources of the national news media

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Speaker 1: was devoted more to covering nine to eleven. And then

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Speaker 1: of course with the two wars with Iraq and Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: and the focus on all that, So I think you

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Speaker 1: have to you know, when you think about the political environment,

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't lose side of that. But I keep coming

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Speaker 1: back to the acceleration of the information ecosystem almost becoming

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Speaker 1: wired into our brains. Right, we'd never had anything like

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Speaker 1: the two thousand election, And you know, my old friend

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Speaker 1: Lester Holt became sort of he got a nickname Old

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Speaker 1: iron Pants, right because he was constantly able to go

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Speaker 1: hours and hours without leaving the leaving the anchor table,

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Speaker 1: no matter whatever. Nature was calling for him, and it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I believe we started the ticker, and then

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Speaker 1: the tickers on cable news weren't ubiquitous. Then nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven happens and they become ubiquitous, and it really, I

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Speaker 1: think also accelerated. Not everybody had moved fully to the

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Speaker 1: Internet to get their information and get news and information.

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Speaker 1: Nine to eleven was a bit more of a trigger

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Speaker 1: because you suddenly needed real time information. You didn't want

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Speaker 1: to wait for the newspaper, you didn't want to wait

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Speaker 1: for the evening news, so you did anything that was

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Speaker 1: in the immediate. Cable news was immediate, and the Internet

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Speaker 1: was immediate. So it I do think that one of

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Speaker 1: the cultural impacts in nine to eleven that probably is

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Speaker 1: delayed without nine to eleven happening is sort of is

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Speaker 1: our full embrace the digitized information ecosystem. Was this eventually

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Speaker 1: going to happen? Of course it was, but all of

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Speaker 1: this suddenly there was more demand for immediate information.

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Speaker 2: So what happened?

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Speaker 1: Companies responded by creating more products to feed this demand

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Speaker 1: for more information, and so we end up, you know,

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Speaker 1: with social media beginning in twenty oh seven, in twenty

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Speaker 1: oh eight, Does all that happen on the same timeline?

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Speaker 1: Is it adopted as mainstream.

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Speaker 2: On the same timeline?

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Speaker 1: My theory is that it is not. And I think

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Speaker 1: this is one of the underrated parts of the impact

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Speaker 1: of nine to eleven on us is that. So I

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Speaker 1: think when you throw that in there, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty important differentiator and how our timeline changes. So

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Speaker 1: then there are the things that you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: we've all lived with, still live with, that wouldn't have happened, right,

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Speaker 1: the emergency that never ends. So there's no Patriot Act,

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Speaker 1: there's no Iraq war, there's no permanent sort of non state, right,

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Speaker 1: we don't have this sort of congressionally authorized war against

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Speaker 1: terrorists that are still being the sort of ambibiguously worded

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Speaker 1: pieces of legislation are being used now to justify attacks

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Speaker 1: in Iran, attacks in Venezuela. And so we don't have anything.

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Speaker 1: We don't have the USA Patriot Act, we don't have

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Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security. So let's immediately realize this, right,

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Speaker 1: Homeland Security. The idea of the Homeland Security Department had

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Speaker 1: been partolating for a while among the sort of the

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Speaker 1: there's a group of sort of good government infrastructure folks.

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Speaker 1: And because you know, this was sort of a plan

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Speaker 1: that had been sitting on the shelf, right, there was

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Speaker 1: always some question why are there? You know, why is

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Speaker 1: the Secret Service with Treasury? You know, yes, it started

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Speaker 1: as sort of looking at counterfeit money, but it's bigger

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Speaker 1: than that. Now, where's the Coast Guard? Should that be

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Speaker 1: with the Pentagon? Should that be here? And so there

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Speaker 1: was this idea of like, okay, should there be a

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Speaker 1: some domestic security agencies, arguably including the FBI. But for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, we didn't put the FBI in here that

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Speaker 1: you know, should be in this cabinet department. I will

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Speaker 1: at some point do a time machine about you know, I.

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Speaker 2: I the entire creation of.

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Speaker 1: The Homeland Security Department was just a reminder of why,

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Speaker 1: as much as I would love to see more government efficiency,

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Speaker 1: it is sometimes impossible to make happen because of members

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Speaker 1: of Congress refusing to give up a subcommittee a subcommittee

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Speaker 1: influence on some dying agency that should go away, But

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Speaker 1: because this person wants to gavel. They think it's an

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Speaker 1: important government entity to keep alive. This episode of the

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Speaker 2: You know, the whole point.

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Speaker 1: Of Homeland the Department of Homeland Security was sold as

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Speaker 1: a way, Hey, we're going to create more efficiencies. This

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Speaker 1: is going to put agencies, you know, border security should

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Speaker 1: be in there, so igrant Now. I tell you what

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Speaker 1: people didn't realize at the time is that that somehow

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Speaker 1: that Homeland Security would simply become an immigration agency over time.

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Speaker 1: But that is what it's been turned into. Essentially, it

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Speaker 1: feels like that that is, and it could if you

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Speaker 1: listened to my conversation with Jonathan Martin. In some ways

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Speaker 1: the obsession of turning the Department Homeland Security almost into

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Speaker 1: singularly a border enforcement department. When it drops the ball

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Speaker 1: on a natural disaster with FEMA or drops the ball

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Speaker 1: on some other issues with the Coastguard, is that going

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Speaker 1: to cause? Is that going to cause Christy Nomes some

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Speaker 1: problems perception problems if something bad happens on her watch,

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Speaker 1: regardless of whether she was following orders or not. So

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Speaker 1: I do think that was, you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: and this and this is another sort of what if

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Speaker 1: scenario here did Trump Trump's did Bush's endorsement? And the

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Speaker 1: Republican member who was in charge of the House and

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Speaker 1: the Senate. The Senate was divided. Democrats had a narrow

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Speaker 1: majority thanks to a party switch for about until the

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Speaker 1: twenty oh two mid terms, but Republicans had controlled the House,

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Speaker 1: and obviously the White House.

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Speaker 2: Is there.

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Speaker 1: They became George W. Bush became synonymous with expanding government right.

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Speaker 1: So it really was this beginning of redefining what is conservatives.

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Speaker 1: And one could argue that the splintering of the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party into this magafaction versus this business wing right.

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Speaker 2: George W.

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Speaker 1: Bush was very much right the avatar of the business

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Speaker 1: wing of the Republican Party, and so the embrace of China,

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Speaker 1: the embrace of expansion of government power, I do think

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Speaker 1: planted the seeds for what is now known as the

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Speaker 1: Maga wing of the party. Right, these are the true

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Speaker 1: you know. I think Marjorie Taylor Green really in some

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Speaker 1: ways articulates this version of conservative better than anybody out there.

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Speaker 1: She talks about being America first. Hey, no get out

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Speaker 1: of other people's foreign wars, no foreign excursions. Right, that

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Speaker 1: mindset the real sort of more Pat Buchanan isolationists view

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Speaker 1: and sertain where Trump's instincts go. Right, I say, is

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Speaker 1: instincts right. He's instinctively an isolationist but can't help himself

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Speaker 1: and always wants to be in the middle of a

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Speaker 1: deal here, a middle of a deal there. But we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't underestimate that the birth of the Trump wing of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party, or the rebirth of it, right, it

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Speaker 1: was a sort of a dormant wing of the party

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Speaker 1: that the Republican support for these expansive government powers that

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Speaker 1: came in in two thousand and two, two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four, the expansion of Department Onland Security TSA.

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Speaker 1: I thought, imagine a Democrat advocating all of this, right,

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Speaker 1: there'd be these protests allah from the right that we're

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Speaker 1: seeing already with Zoon Mormondani.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And it was a Republican presidency that increased the surveillance state,

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Speaker 1: a republican presidency that sort of concentrated more power in

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Speaker 1: the executive branch.

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Speaker 2: Right, So it is.

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Speaker 1: I do think some of the seeds of the rise

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Speaker 1: of MAGA are due to some of the responses to

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven. And then of course there's the Iraq

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Speaker 1: War itself, you know, and you know, this is not

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Speaker 1: my first sort of version of doing various what ifs

435
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: on that are nine to eleven related. I did a

436
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: what if on if Gored become president in two thousand,

437
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: how how do we politically respond to nine to eleven

438
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: if if it were the ninth year of a democratic

439
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: presidency when nine to eleven happens, rather than the first

440
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: year of a republican presidency after eight years of a

441
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: democratic presidency. I do think things would have been a

442
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: bit more polarized and the response to nine to eleven

443
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: had goreb been president than with Bush's president. But you know,

444
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: all of it sort of we became. You know, when

445
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: you think about the impact of nine to eleven on

446
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: on our politics, I do think, like I said, Bush's

447
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: support of a stronger, more robust, larger government, I do

448
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: think inadvertently planted the seeds for the rise of Trump

449
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: a little bit. And then I think when it comes

450
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: to our obsession and consuming of news, it then inevitably

451
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: led the cable news channels to one to have to

452
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: Instead of being informational, they suddenly became affirmational, right, And

453
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the flag pin fights who

454
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: was the most patriotic news channel and that was being

455
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: used as a wedge right folks at Fox in particular,

456
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: we're trying to use patriotism as a way to disqualify journalism.

457
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: And it was the beginning of this sort of part

458
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: one of what became a very polarized news information consumption market.

459
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: But in some ways, because we were constantly clinging to

460
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: these cable news channels for information, then it quickly morphed

461
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: us into and morphed the cable news channels into being

462
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: captured by their audience, so to you know, think of

463
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: it this way. Right before nine to eleven, we thought

464
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: of the news as sort of more informational things we

465
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: needed to know, but it wasn't a priority. After nine

466
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: to eleven, news became something you had to follow for

467
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 1: your own survival, for vigilance, and in many ways, nine

468
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: to eleven created an entire generation of news junkies, reinforced

469
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: news junkiedom and where you constantly felt like you needed

470
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: to have more and more information, so right, the breaking

471
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: news alerts, the constant notifications on our phones, the tickers,

472
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: and in some ways it also created impatience, right since

473
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: information we were expecting information on our fingertips all the time,

474
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: it sort of accelerated that aspect. Now, I again, I

475
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: think all of these technologies don't It's not like the

476
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: technologies don't happen. Our adoption of these new technologies or

477
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: is what accelerates. And I think that that's where I

478
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: would go, right, And.

479
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: Now, you know, I.

480
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: Think the question is where we always was this an

481
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: inevitable result of once we sort of put all we

482
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: put algorithms in deciding what news we saw on all

483
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: this stuff that once these filters and this was going

484
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: to happen anyway, or would gatekeeping still be strong, would

485
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: be at least stronger today than it is. If we

486
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: never have this desire or concern or need to constantly

487
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: feel as informed as we absolutely felt like we had

488
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: to have.

489
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: In post nine to eleven.

490
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: Without nine to eleven, would there been a Would constant

491
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: breaking news alerts have turned us off?

492
00:30:59,080 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: Right?

493
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: Would unverified speculation have sort of been like, oh, that

494
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: belongs in the high end of AM radio? Would we

495
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: be less tolerant of emotional framing of news?

496
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: Right? Maybe?

497
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: But I think there's a strong case to be made

498
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: that while we, I think now look at social media

499
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: as a result of smartphones, did nine to eleven actually

500
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: train us to never look away and therefore accelerate the

501
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: the creation of these social media platforms because we knew

502
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: there was a demand.

503
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: Right?

504
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: In many ways, you don't create something unless you think

505
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: there's a demand for it. So, if this means we

506
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: don't have politics without a hyperintendent attentive culture, what does

507
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: that look like?

508
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: Right?

509
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: Does this mean we'd never have a Donald Trump or

510
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: a Barack Obama?

511
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: That we saw to stick to the.

512
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: Very I don't want to say convent. Yeah, I guess

513
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: it's conventional. You know at the time, right, is a

514
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: Barack Obama sort of convinced that he should be running

515
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: for governor before he runs for president type of thing.

516
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: Don't forget what powered Obama to the White House arguably

517
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: was the fact that he came out early against the

518
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: Iraq War before other mainstream Democrats did it, and there

519
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: was a recording to prove it. Right, without it, does

520
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: he ever win that nomination against Hillary Clinton?

521
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: Anyway?

522
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: And think about how much that how much that issue

523
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: absolutely divided the Democratic Party and what happens without it.

524
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't think John Kerry's the nominee

525
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four without nine to eleven. Right,

526
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: Democrats needed to have thought they needed to have a

527
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: military veteran after what happened in O two. There was

528
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: this whole after the who Max Cleland thing in two

529
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: thousand and two, with the weaponization of the Department of

530
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: Homeland Security as a wedge issue in those two thousand

531
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: and two midterms, right, it really sort of made the

532
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: idea of what Democrats need to find somebody with military service.

533
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: That's what got Carrie, you know, sort of jump started

534
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: his candidacy. You know, I think it's more likely we

535
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: have Al Gore as nominee in two thousand and four

536
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: because you're more likely to run again. Perhaps, you know,

537
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: perhaps Hillary Clinton is not seen as this hawkish because

538
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: there's nothing to be hawkish about, and then she's a

539
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: more conventional potential candidate in twenty oh eight. Now do

540
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: I think eventually in the same mindset, we the public

541
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: would have been like, wait a minute, what's with the dynasties?

542
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: We're not just trading Clinton for Bush for Clinton.

543
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: You know, I still.

544
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: Think that demand would have been there, but maybe it's

545
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: not as powerful yet. Maybe it takes a one more

546
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: term of Hillary of Clinton actually serving as president before

547
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: it becomes a powerful political force on that front. So

548
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: what things still happened that probably impact our politics back then?

549
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: So essentially what replaces nine and eleven if it never happens,

550
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: I think we still have a financial crisis because that

551
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: was you know, the seeds of those were planted in

552
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: the nineties, and you know, maybe it accelerates nine to

553
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: eleven with all the extra spending that came may have

554
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: propped up the economy for an extra couple of years.

555
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: And therefore, remember there was sort of it was your

556
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: patriotic duty to go shop it.

557
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: Do you does that?

558
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: Does all of this accelerate and maybe the financial collapse

559
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: happens in four oh five rather than oh, seven oh eight, Right,

560
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: that's possible. We still have tech discoveries, tech disruptions. The

561
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: question is is the if there's not demand for information

562
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: every second of the day, do some of these social

563
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: media platforms take off as fast as they did and

564
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: we're still going to have inequality? We were still going

565
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: to have this. And I think the question is whether

566
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: is just when it happens on how intense I look

567
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: at nine to eleven, and I assume it delayed our

568
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: inevitable sort of reckoning that was about. That was taking

569
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: the unit party reckoning right, the whether it's the center

570
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: left of the Democratic Party center right. But if you

571
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: think about it, Bush, Clinton, the Bushes and the Clintons

572
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: were really seen as between the forty yard line presidents.

573
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: And they were also on foreign policy very much in

574
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: uniparty and that and and in trade it was uniparty.

575
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: You know, both Bush and Clinton were pro NAFTA Both

576
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: Bush and Gore were pro NAFTA both, you know, so

577
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: they were both bullish on China in some ways, both

578
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: bullish un keep trying to bring Russia into the West.

579
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: So the point is is that I do think that

580
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: reckoning still.

581
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: Takes place inside both parties. You still have a.

582
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: There's still likely I have to be a financial crisis

583
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: that ends, that has a bailout. It all just depends.

584
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: I've always and I've done this. What if, right, what

585
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: if McCain had won the two thousand and eight presidency

586
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: instead of Obama. Well, instead of the Tea Party being

587
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: the driving force of the twenty ten midterms, I think

588
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: it's Occupy Wall Street that's the driving force of the

589
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: twenty ten midterms. Sort of that there's still that it's

590
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: more of a because it would have been all Republicans

591
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: making the decision. It would have been a Republican president

592
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: spending tax dollars to bail out banks and all that.

593
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: So it would have I think, just galvanized that. And

594
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: you may have had Bernie's dream of his sort of

595
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 1: urban rural coalition coming coming together much quicker and much faster.

596
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: Than even now when we haven't seen it.

597
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: So it's not as if any of these things don't happen.

598
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: If the question is on what timeline, and the more

599
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: I've gone through the what ifs on the things that

600
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: happen that we're nine to eleven derivatives, and then the

601
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: things that probably happen regardless of whether nine to eleven happens,

602
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: like the financial crisis and the continuation of tech disruptions,

603
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: I think it really is just about timing. And I

604
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: think the biggest conclusion I come to is that our

605
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: brief unity post nine to eleven essentially delayed everything that

606
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: we've been dealing with now, So probably bring everything four

607
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: years earlier. Right, But there's some open questions, right, is

608
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: there ever? You know, does a Barack Obama still rise up?

609
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: Is? You know?

610
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: But if you don't have an Iraq war as a

611
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: defining distinction between sort of the Obama wing and the

612
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: Clinton wing, which in some ways now is kind of

613
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: the Clinton wing and the Sanders wing, with Obama folks

614
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: two thirds on the Clinton side of that argument, one

615
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: third on the Sander side of that argument. You know,

616
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: where where is that in its sort of formation? And

617
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: all of that. I think those are small details, but

618
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: the larger trend lines I'm assuming do continue. They just

619
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: go in different Look, that doesn't mean that Saddam Mussein

620
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: wasn't going to fall, and I think you still would

621
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: have had his fall. There's probably still you know, my

622
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: guess is Cheney's still kind of interested in finishing the

623
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: job with with a rock, so that there we deal

624
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: with the rock sort of the way we've been dealing

625
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: with Iran. So you know, it's not as if there

626
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: aren't the potential for some for some foreign policy uh

627
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: involvement and maybe even involvement that becomes politically less popular

628
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: in the Middle East. But it's it all obviously looks

629
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: different and it's all consumed different. So ultimately the conclusion

630
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: I've come to is at nine to eleven in some

631
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: ways intensified and accelerated our information consuming culture, and at

632
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: the same time.

633
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 2: It delayed.

634
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Our political reckonings that we're going to I think now

635
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: it's there is that they were gonna come do, and

636
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: in some ways nine to eleven may have delayed them

637
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: all about a cycle, right, due to either you know,

638
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: trying to pump money into the economy or into building

639
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: up our defenses, which sort of artificially sort of you know,

640
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: expanded when you're when you're expanding government as fast as

641
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: they were, you're creating more jobs, you're throwing money into

642
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: the system. It is sort of it is sort of

643
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: propping up the you know, having some impact on the economy,

644
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: so likely delay the financial crisis a bit. So, you know,

645
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: sort of it's sort of two things can be true

646
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: at the same time, right, nine to eleven sort of

647
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: conditioned us to become these information junkies that now in

648
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: some ways we've allowed it to both consume us and

649
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: destroy our information ecosystem. But at the same time it

650
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: delayed the political reckonings that were still in the middle

651
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: of now this political realignment, which arguably, you know, as

652
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: I said, you can actually see the very first beginnings

653
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: of this realignment with the Pat Buchanan challenge.

654
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: Of George H. W. Bush in ninety two. It is.

655
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: It's still I still think you see what we're dealing

656
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: with now, all of it. We may be on the

657
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: other we have made me have already on the other

658
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: side of it by then, and who knows, we may

659
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: not have been as interested in celebrity candidates either, which

660
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: sort of we came so ultimately without nine eleven. You know,

661
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: we'd still be the imperfect country that is America, but

662
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: we might be a bit less frantic, right we might

663
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: trust our institutions slightly more.

664
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 2: Or.

665
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: Or we may feel the same way, you know, or

666
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: we may just you know, we may have gotten through

667
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: this era quicker, and right now we're still not done.

668
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: I think we're still not through this current realignment that

669
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: it's clear we're going through. That to me is as

670
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: much a transition, because we're transitioning from an industrial based

671
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: economy to a service globally a global service economy, and

672
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: its globalization, which was an inevitable force that began in

673
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: the nineties and wasn't going to go away. And in

674
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: some ways nine to eleven I think just had a

675
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: huge impact on our psyche, had a huge impact on

676
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: sort of the perception and role of government and the

677
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: size of government. But some of these longer trends, it

678
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: disrupted them for a few years, but it didn't erase them,

679
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: and it didn't make them go away. So would love

680
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: your reaction to this one. Like I said, just like

681
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: I did promise with the other what if I would

682
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: like to I'm happy to discuss other scenarios that are

683
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: missing here that I didn't fully get through. I could

684
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: have gone down a Donald RUMs rabbit rumsfeld rabbit hole.

685
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: Rumsfeld was going to do some massive Pentagon restructuring before

686
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. I think we were going to shrink forces.

687
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: I think the modernization to become a more nimble military

688
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: was actually going to take place under a Rumsfeld. I

689
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: remember a lot of military legacy military folks didn't like

690
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: what Rumsfeld was planning. But there were a lot of reformers,

691
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: including people like Bill Clinton, who were very got in

692
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 1: the hole about Rumsfeld wanted to do at the Pentagon

693
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: before nine to eleven. But then nine to eleven happens

694
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: and all of those plans go away.

695
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: So there's there's there.

696
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: That's just one extra thing that that but between you know, immigration,

697
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: My guess is Bush in his first term, tries to

698
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: do immigration. You know, that's the big lift. He attempts

699
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: without a nine to eleven that both his tax cut

700
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: and his immigration reform. I don't know if he's any

701
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: more successful, by the way. I don't though without the

702
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: specter of nine to eleven, maybe there's a little less

703
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: anger on the right that allows it to pass. But

704
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: I don't but it probably does nothing to stop the

705
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: current sort of current structure of where we are in

706
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: the two parties when it comes to immigration right now

707
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: in current skepticism. It just means we might have had

708
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: at least a better set of asylum of laws than

709
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: we do at the moment. All right, look, this is

710
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: the last What if I'm going to read you a

711
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: few that I didn't do, and if you've got stronger

712
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: feelings about them, make the case of why you think

713
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: I should spend thirty to forty five minutes. Maybe I

714
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: can turn a couple of them into podcast time machines.

715
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: My favorite one. But I was so I didn't have enough.

716
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't as well educated about the issue that I.

717
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: It was going to be a heavier lift for me.

718
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 1: But this one was what if the Greco Turkish War

719
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: had ended favorably for the Greeks, assuming it survived World

720
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: War Two? What would the long term ramifications of a

721
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: modern Greek state spanning southeastern Europe and much of western

722
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: Anatolia be for regional and world affairs? Would religious tensions

723
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: be better or worse than they are today? You know,

724
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: this gets at to you know, what if we had

725
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: you know what if they're essentially the French and the

726
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: Brits hadn't tried to create countries out of thin air

727
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. So I think

728
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: it's an interesting one. But like I said, I felt

729
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: like I wasn't ready for this another idea that we

730
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: looked at, but I couldn't.

731
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't really have forty five minutes. What

732
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: happened to pro boxing? As a kid?

733
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: I remember watching boxing on Sundays with Dad. That tradition

734
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: has gone. I feel the same as slowly happening in

735
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: the NFL. I don't know what what if? To shape

736
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: around that?

737
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: Right? Maybe it's what if? What if?

738
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: What if mister t never does the WWE and we

739
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: start mixing boxing with entertainment and then mixed martial arts happens.

740
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a it's interesting things. Here's another one.

741
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: What if Princess Diana had lived, which you have continued

742
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: reshaping the monarchy?

743
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: Interesting?

744
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: What if Nelson Mandela had never been imprisoned? Would the

745
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: would apartheid have ended sooner? Oruld the anti aparteype movement

746
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: have actually lost a unifying symbol. That was an interesting one.

747
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: And again I want to find a good historian to

748
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: help me out on this one. Here was another fun

749
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: one that we decided not to do. What if Steve

750
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: Jobs hadn't been ousted from Apple in nineteen eighty five?

751
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: Would the personal computing revolution have come sooner? Or would

752
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: Apple have burned out before the iPhone era? But that's

753
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: a fun what if that. I think the folks over

754
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: at the Acquired podcast who have done this might be

755
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: better suited for if that one. And here's another one

756
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: that I actually do want to figure out how to

757
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: do next year. What Malcolm X had lived? Would his

758
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 1: partnership or rivalry with Martin Luther King Junior have redefined

759
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: the Civil rights movement second phase and the rise of

760
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: black political power in the seventies. Essentially, if both MLK

761
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: and Malcolm X had lived, would there have been a

762
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: sort of faster rise in the seventies of black political power.

763
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: It's an interesting thesis and one that I think is

764
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: worth worth diving into.

765
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: And then here's another one.

766
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: What if Netflix had never pivoted to streaming? Do we

767
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: still live in the era of binge culture? Or just

768
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: cable survive longer?

769
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 2: Boy?

770
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: Those things that one I'm not one hundred percent sure of,

771
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: and I don't think it would have carried a whole thing.

772
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: But here's another one that I do want to dig

773
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: into at some point, what if China had democratized in

774
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: the nineties, how would the global balance of power look today?

775
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: The only reason I didn't do this one, and it

776
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: might be worth doing down the road, is I think

777
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: the conclusion I would have come to if China had

778
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: democratized in the nineties would have been like, yeah, China

779
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: would have been Russia, and there'd have been an elected

780
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: strong man that just sort of stayed strong man of

781
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: that country that we probably see some combination of Modi

782
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: in India meets Putin in Russia. That that's what the

783
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: leadership of China would be. I think what we're I

784
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 1: think the thing that I've come to the conclusion under

785
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: the fall of the Soviet Union and why democracy has

786
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: been sort of in fits and starts with former and

787
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: former Soviet republics, is just look at the history of

788
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: democracies in any country. There are always a fits and starts,

789
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: and they don't It's not a straight line. It does

790
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: eventually get there, right, you know, but it you know,

791
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: it took France a while. It took Germany a while.

792
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: You know, they had a false start. The women are

793
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: republican to fall once before they got it, and it

794
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: took us. But from our you know, it took us

795
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: from eighteen seventeen seventy six to nineteen sixty five until

796
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: we gave everybody the right to vote, right, So you

797
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: know it took us a while as well. So I

798
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: do think some of these it's hard to do some

799
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: of these what if I'm democracies around the world because

800
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: the history of democracy in all of these countries is

801
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 1: never a straight line, right, There's sort of this circles,

802
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: Like if China is a democracy by twenty fifty, tanam

803
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: and Square is going to be seen as one of

804
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: the early indicators that China wanted democracy. But if China

805
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: doesn't get democracy by twenty fifty Tenament Square becomes less

806
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: and less of irrelevant moment right in the history of China.

807
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 1: Just something to be thinking about as you pitch your

808
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: ideas to me. So I wasn't going to have a guest,

809
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: but for the for this week, I promised you some

810
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: one if episodes, some mailbag episodes. We've already delivered one

811
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: what if actually two, what IF's in one? But my

812
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: next guest, who, of course is I believe we've we

813
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: will crown him. He's part of the five time tododcast

814
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: club here, just like SNL hosts. It's none other than

815
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: Jonathan Martin. J mart somebody I have known, worked with

816
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: friends with for thirty plus years. He wrote one of

817
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: my favorite He wrote an homage to one of my

818
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 1: favorite columns from the eighties and nineties, the old Bill

819
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: Sapphire predictions column. He called it the office pool. All

820
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: things Bill Sapphire in the New Year used to used

821
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: to consume us. If I remember back in the day

822
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: we had you had this column. Then he would go

823
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: on Nightline and do that prediction panel with Copple. It

824
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: would always be Sapphire, sometimes modout right, sometimes Peggy Noonan,

825
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: you know I, but always Sapphire.

826
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: And he always had a lot of fun with this.

827
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: So you wrote this column and I thought, I know,

828
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: Jay Mart's got thirty minutes for me.

829
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: We've got to We've got to have absolutely, especially the

830
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 2: day after New Year's Day, which is a big day

831
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 2: in New Orleans. Uh yeah, for a lot of reasons.

832
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: So well, we are taping on the second that's going

833
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: to drop on the first sort of working Monday of

834
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: the year. But let's go through it. Look, I've said this,

835
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: we all have crutches. Around the end of the year.

836
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: You have your best of lists two years winners and losers, Right, I.

837
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: Do what ifs like we all have a thing you you,

838
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: But it really is the topics you sort of hit

839
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: on sixteen topics that you I was going to get

840
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: covered this year.

841
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: You have a little fun obviously, but I'm guessing there

842
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: were a few topics you hit on first and foremost

843
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: that you really wanted to make a point about, and

844
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: then there were others that you had to like, well

845
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: I need more items in here.

846
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 2: So.

847
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: Right, we all get it, right, So give me your

848
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: of these sixteen What was the one you were like

849
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: the first couple that were like, this is my obsession

850
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: and why I wanted to crank out this column.

851
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. It's going to like, you know, the

852
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: hardest writing sometimes is the shortest writing. And I could

853
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 2: have done twenty five pretty easily, right, it would have

854
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: been it would have been hard to done like just five.

855
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: I did sixteen because I felt like I had fifteen,

856
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: and then like, well, it's twenty twenty six, and if

857
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 2: I do sixteen, I could have fun with a sports question.

858
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 2: So I lossed in Elaine kiffn question there in the end. Well,

859
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: the ones that I think Chucker's screen obvious are what

860
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: is Trump got a name after himself? Next? Right? I

861
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 2: mean this is less of presidency than it is a

862
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: victory lap of somebody who is presence in public life

863
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 2: is entirely about validation and affirmation more than a day's

864
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 2: really any substantive accomplishment. It's about recognition, right, which has

865
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: been Trump's identity for fifty years as he wants to be.

866
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: You've got to say he's been consumed with this arguably

867
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: his entirety.

868
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's never on the merriat, it's never on subs.

869
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: It's just am I one of life's winners? And so like,

870
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 2: of course he's spending his days like building homage to

871
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: himself and like quite literally monuments to himself and renaming

872
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: everything he can after himself, because that's the whole ballgame. Right.

873
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 1: What I find it weirdly impressive is that he picks

874
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: things to put his name on that if you're a

875
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: Trump opponent and you obsess over too much. In some ways,

876
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: you look like you're obsessed with the superficial right, the

877
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: Institute of Peace, the Kennedy Center, the ball right. It's

878
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: absurd that he's obsessed with this. And if you're a

879
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 1: Democratic member of Congress, you're an idiot if you want

880
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: to line up oversight hearings about it too.

881
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: Right, right, because then you're dragged down to his well right.

882
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 2: I'm reminded of last fall when he got up there

883
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 2: on the campaign tron of Pennsylvania and was talking about,

884
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 2: you know, Arnold Palmer's endowment, and it was like, you know, Democrats, like,

885
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 2: how do you ignore it?

886
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: But at the same time, no, it's it is, and

887
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: and that that's weirdly his genius in how he does this,

888
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: which is why it ends up happening like exactly, you're thinking,

889
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,280
Speaker 1: like the Institute of Peace like one of the cooler

890
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: buildings that you come into DC. Now it's it's sort

891
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: of I've always I've been I've always been impressed with

892
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: the architecture of it, and i've been you know, you know,

893
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: it's like cleaned up that whole part of Constitution Avenue.

894
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: And I don't even think he knows why Congress endowed

895
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: the building in the first place.

896
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: Of course, not besides the point, totally beside the point.

897
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: So he just needed I did the Trump. I just

898
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: think I'm of the view that Trump should be covered

899
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,479
Speaker 2: with the level of seriousness, that he takes the job right,

900
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 2: and he doesn't make the job very seriously. Like why

901
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: he can't be bothered to do the basis about any

902
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 2: policy issue, any foreign leader, he barely knows their names.

903
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: He says the same thing with every foreign leader. A

904
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 2: great guy, doing a great job. We get along really

905
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: really well, it's all interchangeable. He just wants to like

906
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: do the public facing aspects of the job that get

907
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 2: him attention, notoriety and affirmation. So like that's what he's about. Now.

908
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: That's not to say that there's other elements of his

909
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: presidency that are deadly serious, those carried about by carried

910
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: out by his lieutenants. That dude demand intent scrutiny.

911
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: All right, So let's pick what's he gonna name after himself?

912
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 2: What do you think I mean?

913
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm impressed with the you know, cherry picking Dallas Airport.

914
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 1: There isn't a big constituency to protect Alan Dallas, right,

915
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: So I think I think if he really wants to

916
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: vince this named after him. You know, it's the most

917
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: hated airport in the region, unless we say who hates

918
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: b w I uh, it's equally as much because of

919
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: the false advertising of the w in it. It is

920
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: not nowhere near Washington. But that's my pet peeve. But

921
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: everybody hates Dollas. Everybody hates Dollas. Okay, name tru you

922
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: want that on your.

923
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: Go ahead, buddy, it's coming on the back door troll, right,

924
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: It's a back door troll. He is, like, you know,

925
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: those in the know would get that Trump being named

926
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 2: after Dollas actually is not omas right, right, right? Yeah?

927
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: Is that your assumption or what you do? What do

928
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: you think he tries?

929
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 2: No, I think he'll be tempted to do doll It

930
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 2: would drive me if you try to grab Ellis. But

931
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 2: I think that the two hundred and fifty eighth anniversary

932
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 2: of the country and the construction of the arc, the

933
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 2: Trump that he's going to build across Memorial Bridge between

934
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 2: the Lincoln Memorial and the Custosly Mansion, I think that

935
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 2: temptation will lead him to just make that bridge, which

936
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: nobody really knows the name of that bridge, but it's

937
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: a memorial bridge. Just call it the Trump Bridge.

938
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: Interesting, you know, I want to you know, one of

939
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: the things about him that I think it's an un

940
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: This is an uncomfortable fact when I bring it up

941
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: to people, because they don't want to believe. They don't

942
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: want to believe. But do you know who Trump is

943
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: most like? I think of previous presidents, it really is

944
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt in in how he Teddy was obsessed with

945
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: his legacy. Teddy was constantly very comfortable with stuff being

946
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: named after him.

947
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 2: I mean, my.

948
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: Gott he had his picture etched. That was the only

949
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: way Mount Rushmore happened. You're like, wait a minute, Jefferson, Lincoln, Washington,

950
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: and you right, it's always been, you know, and like

951
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,959
Speaker 1: the longer we've gone, we've decided that Teddy legacy now

952
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: sort of lives it. But you're like, we probably have

953
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: the wrong Roosevelt on the Mount Rushmore, not even close, right, right?

954
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: And yet you know, I I when I bring up

955
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: how actually narcissistic Teddy was and how Trump is really

956
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: most emblematic to him, it makes people uncomfortable because we

957
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: want to like Teddy.

958
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and because Roosevelt is somehow part of the American spirit.

959
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: Bully Great Eastern went West, And isn't Trump very much

960
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: a part of the American spirit that not everybody loves? Yeah, present,

961
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: you know, I've always felt that Trump is less of

962
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 2: a political archetype and more of a a pop culture archetype. P. T. Barnum,

963
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 2: that he's a modern He's PT. Barnum, He's Buffalo Bill. Yeah,

964
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 2: he's He's the traveling salesman coming through town on the

965
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 2: medicine wagon. It's always been a part of American culture.

966
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: It was just we've always had when Charles Lindberg, we

967
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: can keep going, and just none of them ever became president.

968
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: He's the first one that ever became. We always had

969
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: a huckster element that people kind of like in our

970
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: pop culture, right, you know what people was saying about

971
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 2: Sucker is born every minute. I mean, I just this

972
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 2: is an old story in American life that Trump has

973
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 2: updated for the TV age and now the digital age,

974
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 2: but it's not new to Trump. Yeah.

975
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: I think the thing that people like you and I

976
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: got wrong about him is I think we thought the

977
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: country wasn't susceptible to a huckster like That's right, and

978
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: it turns out, yeah, we are, you know, right, It

979
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: turns out we weren't.

980
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, we thought that there was a salt water freshwater

981
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 2: division between our politics and our pop culture, and it

982
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 2: turns out it was bracketish. Right.

983
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: One of your other questions you put out their predictions,

984
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: et cetera, is a Supreme Court seat opening. I fully

985
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: believe this too. You know, if you if you're looking

986
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: for political pressure points to try to goose Republican turnout,

987
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: and you look at what happened in ninety eight I

988
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: mean in eighteen, Excuse me, I mean, you know, without

989
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: the Kavanaugh nomination, maybe Democrats hang on to two Senate seats.

990
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: You know, maybe mccaskell finds.

991
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 2: A way to win.

992
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: Like she will say, the Kavanaugh fight that happened essentially

993
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: four weeks before election day galvanized the right and really

994
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: fired them up. If I were sitting in the white

995
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: West wing looking to goose Republican turnout for the midterms,

996
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: a Supreme Court fight this summer, you know, would be

997
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: would would be what something I would order up after

998
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: trying the redistricting gambit, which looks like it's going to

999
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: end up if Virginia goes through with what they do,

1000
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: we can end up actually a net negative for Republicans.

1001
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: But so which one of them goes? Does he bully

1002
00:59:58,440 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: Alito out or is it Thomas?

1003
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: It feels like Alito is the more likely one, you know,

1004
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 2: that's what. But I've kind of heard through the grape

1005
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: y And also he's got a clerk. He's creak here.

1006
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you could tell the whole flag thing. He

1007
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: doesn't love being a like. It's clear that he and

1008
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: his wife aren't on the same page on this, like

1009
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: one wants to be a public figure whatever it is.

1010
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: They're just sort of and he is of the age

1011
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: of like, you know, but I keep hearing Thomas is

1012
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: done and ready to get in the RV and you know,

1013
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: maybe go go to Georgia bulldog games.

1014
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 2: It's clearly one of those two. I think it's just

1015
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: a matter of which one it is. And especially if

1016
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 2: Trump's numbers by let's say the first of March, if

1017
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 2: Trump's approval is down thirty one thirty two percent nationally, boy,

1018
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 2: I think the pressure is going to be really intense

1019
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: on one or both of them.

1020
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: Because if you don't get then you're looking a bit

1021
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: ter RBG right right wing Rbach six. Yeah, yeah, no,

1022
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: I'm I am. I'm one of those who believes that

1023
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: Democratic chances of winning the Senate are going to seem

1024
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: a lot more realistic come October of the calendar year.

1025
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: It's so much like two thousand and six. And that's

1026
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: I completely agree.

1027
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: I think, you know, late developing races, but we're going

1028
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: to see I don't know if it's Mississippi, Kansas, or

1029
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Iowa maybe you know, maybe all of them, right, but

1030
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: we're going to see We're going to see more competitive

1031
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: races pop up in some places we haven't been thinking about,

1032
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: or maybe you and I have been thinking about them

1033
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: but haven't percolated just yet.

1034
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: This is notable, hasn't gotten a ton of attention. But

1035
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 2: in Nebraska, the same Indie Dan Osborne who ran AM

1036
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 2: against dem Fisher and lost, you know, ran a solid campaign,

1037
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 2: is running this time with the benefit of having the

1038
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 2: Democratic Party of Nebraska's TACIT support. And they ain't it

1039
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: the last I'd argue at it the last time too,

1040
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: But they're not going to run somebody on the ball.

1041
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 2: They didn't run somebody in the filet last time, and

1042
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: that's what they did. I thought they felt the same.

1043
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: But like even even a sort of like Joe six

1044
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: pack running with the dat label is not going to happen,

1045
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: which could drain eight percent of the vote, is what

1046
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 2: I'm saying. You know, true, But I don't know.

1047
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: If you you're like me, you will watch any Bowl

1048
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: game that's on TV. And I watched the Nebraska Utah game,

1049
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: and you know what, I saw a lot of I

1050
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: saw a lot of Pete Rickett's advertising, just very positive ads,

1051
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: just sort of like, hey, I'm doing what deb Fisher

1052
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: never did, which remind people that I'm your United States senator.

1053
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 2: He's got money to do. Deb Fisher didn't spend.

1054
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: I am a I am a skeptic of this race

1055
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: because it's hard to do this. It's hard to be

1056
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: an insurgent.

1057
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: Twice, it is. It's also a little harder, I think

1058
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 2: for a Democrat to win a Trump cycle. What Trump's

1059
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 2: on top of the ticket, you know, true, and this

1060
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: time he won't be I hear I say. You know,

1061
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: it's funny. Deb Fisher was the more vulnerable.

1062
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: You know, if you think about it, like antelopes, Like right,

1063
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: you know when the dinosaurs or the or the cheetahs

1064
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: are going to take the weakest, you know, the slowest

1065
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: antelope in the herd. Right, Fisher's slower than Rickets because.

1066
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: Of the right. But Osborne could could lose by four

1067
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: and Jasmin Crockett could lose by seven. So there you go, truck.

1068
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: I got to get into the jasmine craft. By the way,

1069
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 2: speaking of Trump not being on top of the ticket,

1070
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: and I think that that can't be over emphasized enough

1071
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 2: in these Senate races right where Kenadas have relied on

1072
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: that looks Susan Collins wins in twenty twenty and a

1073
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 2: Trump in a Trump cycle. Even though Trump loses nationally

1074
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 2: and loses Maine, Trump still wins the second congressional district

1075
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 2: and drives out a lot of voters in Maine that

1076
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 2: voted for Collins. Are those folks coming out this time?

1077
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, tru North Carolina? You know

1078
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 2: Trump drives world turnout, right, Are those folks that come

1079
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: out from Michael Wantley in a midterm cycle in North Carolina?

1080
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: Look, I'm skeptical of Ashley Moody in Florida. The Democrats

1081
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: just haven't found in challenge, right, you know, I'm skeptical

1082
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: of of Sydney Hyde. Smith and Mississippi. You know, there

1083
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: are a lot of these weaker and look, I think,

1084
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm surprised.

1085
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 2: You didn't do this one.

1086
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: So I think the Cynthia Lummus retirement is intriguing in

1087
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: which Trump adjacent carpetbagger is going to float running in

1088
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 1: that race. And you know one of my favorite rumors

1089
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: that I had, that that I had like it was like,

1090
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: you know the chatter, yet you trust you know the

1091
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: chatter that you trust that Junior was very interested in

1092
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: a Wyoming Yeah.

1093
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: I heard that last year.

1094
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And suddenly when that Lumbus retirement happened, I went up,

1095
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: this is how it would happen. And given how easily

1096
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: the Trump Trump folks took over the Wyoming Republican Party,

1097
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: I mean just asked Liz Cheney, I wouldn't roll it out.

1098
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: And then suddenly you have vance junior.

1099
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 2: Ticket ready to go. I don't think that's done yet.

1100
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: I heard that chatter the early part of twenty twenty five,

1101
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 2: like January February twenty five, I guess a year ago.

1102
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 2: Now got them flies And I checked it out and

1103
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 2: nobody out there had had heard of it, but Hageman

1104
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 2: jumped in immediately got Trump's endorsement. That feels like a

1105
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: done deal. I did hear for the junkies will love this.

1106
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 2: Foster Freeze, the lakes owner late he just passed away

1107
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 2: right this year, a year or two ago. His son

1108
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: apparently still lives around Jackson Hole. I think his son's

1109
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 2: sniffing it either well, it would be now the gun

1110
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 2: Jackson whole Carpetbager have always, you know, always there's got

1111
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 2: to be one of that. There's gotta be Sometimes you

1112
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,919
Speaker 2: get fully rejected, right and sometimes Look, Liz Chaney wanted

1113
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 2: to come in early, remember she wanted to be a

1114
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 2: senator first, and was sort of ready to put bully

1115
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 2: out Mike Enzi, and it didn't work. It was one

1116
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 2: of the most fun stories I wrote for The Times

1117
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 2: in my ten years. There was in the summer of

1118
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. I spent a day with the late Mike Enzi.

1119
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 2: God loved me. He was a sweet mam. He was

1120
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,479
Speaker 2: doing the town hall tour. Imagine that town hall tour

1121
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 2: by himself down the eastern spine of Wyoming. I followed

1122
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 2: them all the day to these small little towns, and

1123
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 2: I ended the day in a town called Lusk, Wyoming

1124
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 2: great date line, and after the town hall ended, he

1125
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 2: finally said, I got some time for you, and I'll

1126
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: come over and pull up a chair. It could have

1127
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 2: been nicer. And I said, Senator, I hear some chatter

1128
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 2: that Liz Cheney's thinking about coming home to primary you.

1129
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 2: And he said, oh, that's so interesting. You know, she

1130
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: actually called me last week about that, and my face

1131
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 2: just you know what white. It's like one of those

1132
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 2: moments were like you look down at your caper cord,

1133
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 2: like make sure it's on. Oh she did, Senator tell

1134
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 2: me about that. He totally dropped the dime on her

1135
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: and and basically flushed her out before she wanted to

1136
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 2: announce her challenge to Enzie. But you're right that there's

1137
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 2: a lot of the you know, the money types. Now,

1138
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: the changes are different because obviously Dick and Lynn grew

1139
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: up in Casper, but there's always that element in especially

1140
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 2: around Jackson Hole, of folks that have money who want

1141
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 2: to run. I was joking with a friend of mine.

1142
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 2: I said, I said, I think Titan Village needs a

1143
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 2: voice in Washington. Uh, And my friend said, Titan Village

1144
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 2: is doing just fine in Washington. Trust me.

1145
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think they having

1146
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: a nice red these days, going back to Supreme Court.

1147
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: I love your I love your four nominees. Uh, hero Oldman,

1148
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: Aleen Cannon, Ted Cruz. So this the machiavellian in me

1149
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: says it'll be Ted Cruz to eliminate him as a

1150
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: vance primary opponent.

1151
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you know, that'd be the vance

1152
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 2: preference exactly to get Cruse Cruise out of the Senate

1153
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 2: onto the Court. I think Trump is so taken with

1154
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:30,520
Speaker 2: these traditional credentials of Harvard clerkships, you know, federalist society,

1155
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 2: this and that, and this young fellow not young, but

1156
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 2: he's forty seven.

1157
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

1158
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: Andrew Oldham is on a circuit now uh down in Austin, Texas,

1159
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 2: playing the game right, and he's he was He was

1160
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 2: an Alito clerk, Chuck Sam with a Cavanaugh was a

1161
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 2: clerk for oh God, Stanford, Tony Kennedy. You know, I

1162
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 2: just think that this makes the most sense. But you're right,

1163
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: Cruse would be the play if it was Banta's call

1164
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 2: back to the actually Moody race. By the way, but

1165
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 2: you mentioned actually movie there are a couple of people here.

1166
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 2: She's not crazy about the job. By the way, she

1167
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 2: doesn't love it, sort of got pushed it, talked into it.

1168
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 2: I've heard, like I said.

1169
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: I, I've just heard some interesting chatter that she may

1170
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 1: not be long for that seat even if she wins

1171
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: the like she may finish the term but not seek

1172
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 1: the full six.

1173
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 2: I think one of the most under reported storylines of

1174
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 2: the mid term cycle are the two appointees who are

1175
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 2: basically anonymous in d C and don't get any attention

1176
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 2: in the national press. John Hewa and Houstead in Ohio, right,

1177
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 2: and actually Moody in Florida. Here are these two states

1178
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 2: that you know, in this century were like the pre

1179
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 2: eminent battleground states. They're red tilted. Now, I get that,

1180
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 2: But you have two appointees with not much of a

1181
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 2: profile in d C. Now Houston has more a profile

1182
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 2: back home in Ohio because he was in politics so long.

1183
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,799
Speaker 2: But I just think that there's so much ink spilled

1184
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 2: shock on the Texas Senate race. And then I can

1185
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 2: just rank thembout this for an hour. I know the

1186
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:09,759
Speaker 2: pol you know what Texas sat.

1187
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: Remember remember my rants of two thousand about the damn

1188
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: New York Senate race, and we kept covering Clinton Lazio

1189
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: as if it was competitive, and it's like, this race

1190
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 1: is not competitive, And the only thing national reporters wanted

1191
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: to cover in the Senate was the Hillary Clinton Center ration.

1192
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 2: You like, guys, that's not competitive.

1193
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 1: See the rams and let's go to two. Let's that

1194
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:40,879
Speaker 1: was a real race, Mark Dayton and Rod grahams, Yeah,

1195
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: I w stabanow Man. Now I would argue this Ken

1196
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: Paxton and Jasmine Crocketts the Senate race our politics deserves, yes,

1197
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:54,639
Speaker 1: and in some ways I'd like it, you know, let's

1198
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: have it out. And I don't know.

1199
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 2: Who would win that. I really don't, you know.

1200
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: I think you would assume that it's Texas, and then

1201
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 1: an African American woman's kind of a harder time winning

1202
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: than a nail. But Paxton is so corrupt, is so

1203
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 1: corrupted an anti woman that I don't rule anything up.

1204
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 2: What percent of like Democratic donors activists could even tell

1205
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 2: you the name of the incumbent senator in Ohio where

1206
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 2: they've got a much fitter shot, I would argue to

1207
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 2: win a race than in Texas. It's incredible, like you

1208
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: have Sharon Brown running a state, think he's won elections

1209
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 2: in for half century against an appointee, it gets next

1210
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 2: to no buzz. Anyways, that's just my ram hell. I

1211
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 2: would say even Roy Cooper, the former tutor and governor

1212
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 2: of North Carolina, that race gets oddly little attention. I

1213
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 2: think it's the political hobbyist culture that's taken over the internet. Right,

1214
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 2: So everything is about Platiner in Maine, or now it's

1215
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 2: Tall Rico and Crockett in Texas, like the less sexy races,

1216
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 2: whether it's you said in Ohio against Brown or uper Care.

1217
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's the obsession of trying to find

1218
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: like these. You know, you're like, well, we missed keep Boodhages,

1219
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: we missed Ted Cruz, right, and they both were the

1220
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 1: next avatar? Yeah, who's the next you know, one of those?

1221
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: And everybody's constantly looking for that, right, is it? Graham

1222
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 1: Platner right, is exactly?

1223
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 3: Is it?

1224
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 2: Also there's there's the forever Hillary Bernie proxy war too, right,

1225
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: which will never never end, right, And so that's part.

1226
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: Of well, now it really is just Bernie's proxy war

1227
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: with everybody.

1228
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 2: Right, He's still rocking that same jacket and glove I saw,

1229
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 2: you know, you know.

1230
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 1: I tell you that you know the campaign we never had,

1231
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: and I thought about, Look, I went through my my

1232
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: the what if that I dropped earlier this week was

1233
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 1: what if I did it? I did it at two parter.

1234
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 1: It was essentially what if trumpet either conceded normally in

1235
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 1: twenty twenty or what if Trump had won in twenty twenty.

1236
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, And.

1237
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: I really was, you know, when I when I went

1238
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: through the exercise, what the most fascinating thing was actually

1239
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: realizing how much January sixth really changed Biden and Ron

1240
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,640
Speaker 1: Klaine and how they conducted that presidency, you know, and

1241
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 1: how much it changed everything because there's not a Democratic Senate.

1242
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: If there's no if if Trump doesn't do what he does,

1243
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 1: like I'm convinced that Georgia goes at least one in

1244
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: one doesn't go both in directions Democrats? And what is

1245
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 1: the Joe Biden agenda with a Republican Senate? Right, it

1246
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,640
Speaker 1: is a completely different presidency.

1247
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 2: And who knows deals? Right McConnell and Biden are doing deals.

1248
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 2: There are Democrats will privately tell you they regret the

1249
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 2: day January fifth, twenty.

1250
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: January fifth was a huge it that ruined Biden didn't

1251
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: run to be that president. He ran to be the

1252
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: transformational let's settle down, and in some ways the only

1253
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 1: way that could be successful is if you had divided government,

1254
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: and not having divided government almost forced them to well,

1255
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: we better try to go big now, because how often

1256
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 1: do you get this?

1257
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 2: You know? And by the way, nobody will will be.

1258
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 3: More about this than one term due to Biden's collapsing

1259
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 3: numbers in the fall of twenty twenty one, because of

1260
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 3: in part.

1261
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 2: Well because Afghanis stand in part, but also because of

1262
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 2: Biden's vaulting ambitions. And by the way, the day after

1263
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 2: that twenty twenty one election, I had an up and

1264
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 2: coming Democrat tell me, mister President Nobody, I'd like you

1265
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 2: to be Franklin Roosevelt. We wanted to make where's that

1266
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 2: up becoming democrats. A Democrat's name was Aving abig elst

1267
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 2: Bamberger Governor. I'll lack to have Agails Bamberger.

1268
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's she's almost the governor. We're only a few

1269
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: days away on that one. A few other things from

1270
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 1: your prediction column, Uh, the next place, what's the next place?

1271
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 1: He's ordering airstrikes and your choices are Venezuela ran again Russia.

1272
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 1: And then you have some fun with Canada, but I

1273
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 1: want to single out Aroan and I'm going to have

1274
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:15,799
Speaker 1: a guest on this in a in about ten days.

1275
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,879
Speaker 1: But I think when when I think about the stories

1276
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to prepare for that not a lot

1277
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 1: of people are focused on. I think the I think

1278
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: the regime is going to collapse in Iran. It's I

1279
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: was in Abu Dhabi a couple of weeks ago at

1280
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 1: a journalism conference there. People that are going in and

1281
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: out of Tehran are just it's co and you know

1282
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 1: Abu Dhabi has a huge Iranian diaspora. It is all

1283
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: the buzz that the regimes days are number now.

1284
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 2: You know.

1285
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: Look, it's like with a sod in Syria. You knew

1286
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: it was going to happen. You just is it today?

1287
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: Is it next year? Is it five years?

1288
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 2: But it was gonna there was no way this was sustainable.

1289
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: And you know the lack of running water in Tehran

1290
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: is going to blow this regime up? Is it in

1291
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 1: twenty six? And what does Trump do? Who will probably

1292
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: want a little bit of credit when it happens on

1293
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: his watch, right, I.

1294
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 2: He'll probably name the airport in Toronto for himself. Exactly. No. Yeah, Look,

1295
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 2: presidencies are always about the unexpected events, right, and that's

1296
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 2: the maximum our times. And I mean nobody would have

1297
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:26,560
Speaker 2: guessed that the second Trump residency could be defined by,

1298
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 2: right though, the fall of the Ayatola but and the

1299
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 2: regime that has governed her on for the last forty

1300
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 2: five years, but totally plausible.

1301
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 1: Oh, Chris, you want to talk about reshaping the Middle East,

1302
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: You have a we have a demo semi democratic regime

1303
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: in Iran. I mean, it's going to be fascinating, it's

1304
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: you know it, we really could finally resolve World War One.

1305
01:16:54,640 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also I mean it takes a massive sponsor

1306
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 2: of terrorism, you know, off the map really does, uh,

1307
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 2: and also undermines the broader access between a lot of

1308
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 2: these countries who are obviously set against the West, Russia.

1309
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 1: And the irony is that the only person staying in

1310
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: the way for a stable bit of last might be

1311
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: bebing Net in Yahoo. Right after that point, that he

1312
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 1: could be seen as the most unstable force, not not

1313
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 1: his his government, not the country, but his government. And

1314
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 1: also it also seems unsettled. He does seem a little

1315
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 1: unsettled about all this. Suddenly, Oh, Trump's gonna cut deals

1316
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: with Syria now, and Trump's gonna cut deals all over

1317
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,719
Speaker 1: the like, and you know he'll do it with Iran

1318
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 1: if there's a new regime in Iran. Look how openly

1319
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: been and of course he would a lot of It also.

1320
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 2: Makes you wonder how the Saladies react. But you know,

1321
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 2: if there's a you know, if if the major Shei

1322
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 2: country in the region suddenly has a vacuum, what does

1323
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 2: nb S do? Uh? How does he operate?

1324
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: And I think UAE out maneuvers them in Iran. Part

1325
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: of it is just because they, like I said, there's

1326
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:12,880
Speaker 1: a big Iranian diaspora and yeah, yeah, with money.

1327
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 2: It's fascinating. No, it is, and it's going to be

1328
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 2: Look do I think Venezuela.

1329
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: Look, I think Venezuela could become a real political problem

1330
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 1: for Trump because this is the pottery barn rule.

1331
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1332
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 1: If we're going to keep bombing on land, yes, and

1333
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 1: we succeed, are we walking away from rebuilding Caracas?

1334
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Also, h Steven Miller, pick up

1335
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 2: your phone, because if you if you create some kind

1336
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 2: of regime change in Venezuela and you've got a flight

1337
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 2: of venezuelans. Uh. You know into the US well of

1338
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 2: the history of countries that we meddle in is that

1339
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 2: a lot of folks from those countries come to our country. Right, So,

1340
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:58,759
Speaker 2: speaking of great historical ironies, the uh, the Mark Ruby

1341
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 2: of venezuel policy could be the Steven Miller nightmare. Right.

1342
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 1: Well, I've often wondered, I feel like Rubio. Look, we know,

1343
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 1: Rubio's the architect of all this, right, And I've often

1344
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:13,839
Speaker 1: thought that Rubio, I hope he realizes that the second

1345
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: things go wrong, he's the fall guy, right Like. I

1346
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 1: don't know when Rubio's time with Trump comes to an end,

1347
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 1: but I think I know what it's over. Yeah, And

1348
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: at some point when Trump has to blame somebody else

1349
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:35,679
Speaker 1: for a foreign policy adventure, it ain't going to be him.

1350
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: It's going to be his secretary State.

1351
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 2: And this is why, by the way, Chuck, a different prediction,

1352
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 2: but for the same principle that you just outlined, I

1353
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 2: think Cash Betel is going to be a fall guy

1354
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six too, because whenever there's some kind

1355
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 2: of incident or a manhunt that goes awry, or some

1356
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 2: big flap and embarrassment in which you know. So there's

1357
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 2: a tragedy that happens, somebody's taken the fall for that,

1358
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:00,719
Speaker 2: and it's not going to be I mean, the White House,

1359
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, I don't.

1360
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: I get the sense that Cash Btel doesn't have as

1361
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: many supporters in the West Wing as perhaps he did

1362
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,599
Speaker 1: around in Trump's inner circle in twenty two and twenty

1363
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: three that he does in the current West clearly.

1364
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, one of the big storylines of

1365
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 2: the second Trump term is the leaks are still coming,

1366
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 2: but they're coming more about the cabinet than they are

1367
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 2: the principal himself. The first term, the leaks were about

1368
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 2: Trump himself and Trump's behavior in the West Wing sort of.

1369
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:34,640
Speaker 1: Well, because you had a mix of establishmentarians in the

1370
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: West Wing who are at the guest.

1371
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 2: The leaks this time are about the cabinet because it's

1372
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 2: between cabinet folks. It's between West Wing staff and cabinet folks.

1373
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 2: So I'll there's this idea of like, oh, there's no

1374
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 2: more leaks this time. There's plenty of leaks. It's about

1375
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 2: the cabinet and the staff, not Trump. All right, let

1376
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 2: me give you.

1377
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you Christinome Cash Battel Pete Hegseth,

1378
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 1: who's least likely to finish the year calendar year? And

1379
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 1: there I think, yeah, yeah, gosh, and I think no,

1380
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:04,839
Speaker 1: I would put no second.

1381
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also, Chuck, I think for a similar reason.

1382
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 2: I hate to say this, but look it, we're just

1383
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 2: a vulnerable you know, you know, in this country, in

1384
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 2: the West broadly, and if there is God forbid some

1385
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 2: kind of a tragedy, you know they're going to.

1386
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: Get get homeland security. It took their eye off the

1387
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: ball or yeah, you could picture that storyline right totally, Chuck.

1388
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 1: I would ask you a question though about Florida. Yeah,

1389
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: all right, it's actually kind of a fun story.

1390
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:32,679
Speaker 2: The two traditional Maybe I should write this the two

1391
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 2: traditional battleground states of the odds Florida and Ohio. Yeah,

1392
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 2: they used to have football programs too. I think more

1393
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:43,760
Speaker 2: on that letter. But Florida and Ohio.

1394
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 1: Well, the rightful order has been is being restored with

1395
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: the other state of Miami on tea.

1396
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:53,600
Speaker 2: It's so But Florida and Ohio right totally undercovered. I

1397
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,240
Speaker 2: think in twenty twenty six, talk to me about Florida,

1398
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 2: your your home state, which is the more left a

1399
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 2: flip if the dams were to strike gold and win

1400
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 2: in twenty six and four.

1401
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: Is a governor sentate, Oh, it's one hundred percent gov

1402
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 1: because of the financial If the look I think the

1403
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 1: state is.

1404
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 2: I think senate races.

1405
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:21,680
Speaker 1: Are harder to win in Florida now for Democrats than

1406
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:23,799
Speaker 1: governors races. Right, you're going to get to that point

1407
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,000
Speaker 1: we're going to move. We're going to shift towards the

1408
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:27,679
Speaker 1: sort of in Kansas.

1409
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 2: Right.

1410
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if Democrats we're still probably I think

1411
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 1: by the by twenty thirty six there'll be a Democratic

1412
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:37,839
Speaker 1: senator in Kansas.

1413
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 2: I do.

1414
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: I think in the next ten years we're getting there.

1415
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 1: It's shifting. It has all the elements. You know, You've

1416
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:46,519
Speaker 1: got three suburban areas. That's you know, when you look

1417
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: at how red states become purple states, Kansas looks very

1418
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 1: similar to what we've seen in Georgia, what we've seen

1419
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 1: in mont seen in Colorado. So I buy it, right,

1420
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:01,560
Speaker 1: I sort of buy it that it's coming. But in Florida,

1421
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 1: I do think the jersey matters a lot more in

1422
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 1: senate races, right, You're like, Okay, who's going to be

1423
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: representing us in Washington? But you know, you've got a

1424
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,480
Speaker 1: property tax problem in the state. You've got high electricity

1425
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 1: bills in the state. You've got all these sort of

1426
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 1: issues that really are state driven, less less so than

1427
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 1: the fed fed driven. DeSantis isn't popular. He's not like

1428
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: he's not you know, in his work. He's probably more

1429
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 1: popular than Trump, right because right now Trump's got the

1430
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 1: economy sort of really dragging him.

1431
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:31,760
Speaker 2: Down a little bit.

1432
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 1: But DeSantis doesn't have many friends in Tallahassee these days,

1433
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:42,519
Speaker 1: and this primary could get a messy. I I and

1434
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:47,479
Speaker 1: you know, in theory, Democrats actually have two viable candidates

1435
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 1: in Jerry Demings and David Jolly.

1436
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:53,840
Speaker 2: But it is silly that.

1437
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 1: They're primary in each other. One ought to be running

1438
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 1: in the Senate race. Right here we go again, right,

1439
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: one of them ought to be running in this race

1440
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 1: because they could use a better ticket. Yep, Okay, But

1441
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 1: I do think if you're saying if the bottom falls

1442
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 1: out for the right, what would fall first? Look, I

1443
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 1: think that I think Donalds is a terrible first name.

1444
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 1: It's congressman, and I think that's going to be a

1445
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 1: tough you know. Now, I think David Jolly is a

1446
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: terrible first name. It's former congressman and former lobbyists. Like,

1447
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: in a weird way, Deming's the Donalds is intriguing to

1448
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:31,719
Speaker 1: me because he gets to be a mayor, a former

1449
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 1: mayor versus a former congressman. I just look, there's a

1450
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 1: huge financial disparity. So I'm not gonna I don't want

1451
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 1: people to think, Hey, Chuck Todd says, the Florida governor's.

1452
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 2: Race is competitive. It's not competitive yet. It may not

1453
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 2: get there. But if you're asking me, I would, I would.

1454
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,120
Speaker 2: I would have an easier.

1455
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 1: Time concocting a campaign against thirty years of Republican rule

1456
01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 1: against you know what I mean, Like, are you really

1457
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: frustrated by the rising cost of living in Florida? Well,

1458
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 1: you know who's not fixed property taxes, who's not fixed insurance?

1459
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 2: Who's not right?

1460
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 1: Like, it's an easier campaign to be very similar to

1461
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,719
Speaker 1: what Nancy, excuse me, Kathleen Sibilius and then Laura Kelly

1462
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 1: essentially successfully pulled off in Kansas.

1463
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, I might be my guess the.

1464
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 1: Now, I'll give you a one wild card. Yeah, okay,

1465
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 1: I do think Desantas is going to try to do

1466
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 1: redistricting in Florida. The seat they may target is Jared Moskowitz,

1467
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: one of the seats they may target. And he said,

1468
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 1: he said to me, I mean he's he's on the

1469
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: record of this. He goes, if they come after me,

1470
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 1: then I may run for Senate. And he could be

1471
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 1: a pretty good Senate he could. He could raise a

1472
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 1: decent chunk of money. He would be the pro Israel

1473
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 1: Democratic Senate candidate in Florida.

1474
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 2: Right, you couldn't ledge.

1475
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:54,479
Speaker 1: Him out on that one issue, which is very meaningful

1476
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:56,560
Speaker 1: in South Florida.

1477
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,599
Speaker 2: And uh, you.

1478
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: Know, I I I'm skeptical that I'm skeptical he could

1479
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,679
Speaker 1: win votes north of Okalla, but you know, he certainly

1480
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: could make it.

1481
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 2: An interesting That's fascinating, that's fascinating. But coming back to

1482
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 2: our two thousand and six scenario, Yeah, we have to

1483
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 2: we have to think about a world in which after

1484
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:20,679
Speaker 2: Labor Day Trump's at thirty percent approval and the world

1485
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 2: looks different. Let's go ahead.

1486
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 1: No, I look, I agree, It's why I'm keeping an

1487
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 1: eye on. You know, I don't even completely righte off

1488
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: the independent candidacies, the sort of the the the Osbourne

1489
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: like guys of South Dakota, Yeah, Mississippi. Yeah, And in

1490
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 1: Mississippian in in Idaho, although Idaho feels like a real stretch,

1491
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 1: this was my favorite one that you did because I

1492
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: feel like you had a hidden agenda in this one,

1493
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:56,559
Speaker 1: mister Martin. Yes, so I'm going to read this one

1494
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 1: which twenty twenty eight Democratic presidential hopeful will unwittingly hurt

1495
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 1: their candidacy by writing a book. And what I found

1496
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,600
Speaker 1: interesting is you didn't just list names. You had a

1497
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:10,680
Speaker 1: very specific assumption that you made that My guess is

1498
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,920
Speaker 1: you already know this is making the round. So with

1499
01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: Newsom it is by revealing he's still doing self discovery

1500
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 1: in his late fifties, Shapiro by making his origin story

1501
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 1: a tragedy and that it may come across a little

1502
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:27,719
Speaker 1: too glib over time, it won't won't wear well. Harris

1503
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 1: confusing her book to it. I completely agree with you

1504
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 1: on the Harris thing. I think I think she's confusing

1505
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 1: interest in her book and the book to her into

1506
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:41,120
Speaker 1: interest in her candidacy. And then Bootaji, you know, Botaji,

1507
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: it's to me is the Bruce Willis sixth sense candidate.

1508
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 1: Everybody knows he has no chance accept him, and it's

1509
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 1: because you know he became and the irony is he

1510
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 1: if Biden, if if there's no COVID, he was the

1511
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 1: nominee in twenty I'm like eighty percent convinced to that.

1512
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 2: But I do think Boota just never got a path,

1513
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 2: No Chuck. Forget COVID for a minute. Let's start with Iowa.

1514
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,679
Speaker 2: If the Iowa Democrats get their account locked up, right,

1515
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,679
Speaker 2: he probably won't, but I still think, but let's let's

1516
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 2: play it out the way it will wins Iowa, he

1517
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 2: gets a clean balance in New.

1518
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 1: Hamster, he wins in Hampshire, you know, right, But even

1519
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 1: still it's a split decision, and it's Bernie versus p

1520
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 1: and and there's no Biden in this scenario. Right with

1521
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 1: with COVID, COVID made it easier for everybody to say, off.

1522
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,599
Speaker 2: Screw it, we'll just rally around the old guy.

1523
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:41,640
Speaker 1: But without that, without COVID, I think it's Bernie and Bootage,

1524
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: and I do think Bootage wins simply out of absolute

1525
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 1: fear that.

1526
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 2: Bernie would lose. Yeah, yeah, so let's take all of it.

1527
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:55,639
Speaker 2: So yeah, So I look anyway, going back Newsome Shapiro Harris,

1528
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 2: it feels like it feels like you know something on

1529
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 2: Newsome and Shapiro, or you're already you already think that

1530
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 2: they've maybe already peaked. I think it's more just like

1531
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,000
Speaker 2: I've heard about these books and what's in them, and

1532
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 2: I know they're the personalities of all these folks. And look,

1533
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 2: Newsome's challenge is that, you know, it's not a fair line.

1534
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:20,960
Speaker 2: Jerry Brown's gonna hear this and get mad at me.

1535
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 2: But California folks, they're a little flaky. It's the land

1536
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 2: of fruit and nuts. And Gavin's a good looking guy

1537
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 2: and comes off as articulate, but he's still doing this

1538
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:34,639
Speaker 2: with self discovery stuff and how old is See, it's

1539
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 2: just easier to kind of caricature I think him in

1540
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 2: this book. I've been told that he's coming out with

1541
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 2: here pretty soon. He's pretty raw about him knew his

1542
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:46,480
Speaker 2: self discovery. On the Shapiro thing, this is more sensitive.

1543
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 2: But you know, he had this terrible family tragedy that's

1544
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 2: you know, Arsenal at the mansion in Harrisburg. The risk

1545
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:56,440
Speaker 2: for Shapiro is he just uses that as a political

1546
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 2: origin story to run a presidential campaign and it back

1547
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 2: because it's just too unsubtle about what happened in the

1548
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:07,280
Speaker 2: case of Harris, it's a straightforward She thinks folks buying

1549
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:09,160
Speaker 2: her book means they wanted to run again, which ain't

1550
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 2: the case. And on Buddha Jedge, he's a smart guy

1551
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,000
Speaker 2: and his book will show that he's a smart guy.

1552
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 2: But he's the smartest guy in the room, which is

1553
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 2: why his future in politics is in a point, if

1554
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 2: not electoral politics. I think you could pick any had

1555
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:28,679
Speaker 2: those four tell you the truth. I chose the Kamala Harris.

1556
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 2: There's no appetite among Democrats talk to relive anything to

1557
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,680
Speaker 2: do with twenty twenty four. All right, I completely agree.

1558
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:40,719
Speaker 1: Joe Biden came here. If you have Biden on your resume,

1559
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 1: you're done. And this is my issue. I think Pete

1560
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:46,440
Speaker 1: and Kamala have the same issue. It's a similar challenge.

1561
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: Look who was not on the campaign trail in twenty

1562
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 1: twenty one. Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Tim Walls, who are

1563
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,759
Speaker 1: the three main actors from the twenty twenty four campaign

1564
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 1: could not be fell on anywhere on the campaign trail

1565
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:02,200
Speaker 1: the following year. Party doesn't want to relive the battle

1566
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 1: days of twenty four. I think that is her challenge

1567
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: and I think she knows that, and we'll flirt with this,

1568
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:10,640
Speaker 1: but ultimately she's not gonna want to come back to

1569
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 1: lose a primary. What do you make, By the way,

1570
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 1: let's do a quick little rabbit hole, which is what

1571
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:19,240
Speaker 1: you and I do. What do you make of the

1572
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 1: California governor's race and the lack of.

1573
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 2: I feel like the field is not set. Oh.

1574
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 1: I know it's funny to be the prediction markets have

1575
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 1: Eric Swallwell as the front runner now, and you're just

1576
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:38,720
Speaker 1: like wow, and I'm in you know, prediction markets. In

1577
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: some places, I don't pay attention to California races. I

1578
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 1: do just because I know it's more Californians throwing money

1579
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:46,679
Speaker 1: in there than most other places.

1580
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:50,880
Speaker 2: We'll see at least one additional candidate. It feels a

1581
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 2: little bit like the fall of twenty nineteen shock when

1582
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:56,920
Speaker 2: Mike Bloomberg and Deval Patrick jumped in the late into

1583
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:01,720
Speaker 2: the Democratic primary for president even jumped in. There's a

1584
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:04,599
Speaker 2: vacuum there. Other than one hundred percent of vacuum. It's

1585
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:06,760
Speaker 2: the biggest. Don't you think Kamally gets talked back.

1586
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 1: I've heard that they she was somewhere trying to tuck

1587
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:11,680
Speaker 1: her back into it.

1588
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 2: I think that's I'm that certainly one scenario Rick Caruso, who,

1589
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:18,599
Speaker 2: of course wrong.

1590
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,680
Speaker 1: If Caruso is the one that everybody is saying is

1591
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:23,439
Speaker 1: waiting in the war, waiting in the wings. Our friend

1592
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:26,559
Speaker 1: Mike Murphy, is he really going to run his first

1593
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 1: Democratic campaign?

1594
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:30,640
Speaker 2: I know, right? Is this really? Is he going to

1595
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 2: go full?

1596
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 1: Is it like I've always thought he wasn't going to

1597
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: do that, that he'd run it independent. I'll be very

1598
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 1: curious what our buddy Mike does.

1599
01:32:38,200 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 2: What it feels like Caruso is tempted to do mayor

1600
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,519
Speaker 2: what she ran for one so already, rather than governor.

1601
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:47,800
Speaker 2: But we'll see if folks can change his mind. And

1602
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:51,719
Speaker 2: then you know, the think about the Democratic ranking Memberyk

1603
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 2: Scheck of the Oversight Committee, Robert Garcia from Long Beach,

1604
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 2: somebody who liked Jared Moscovitz is one of these young

1605
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 2: House Democrats that has a knack for attention in publicity.

1606
01:33:01,240 --> 01:33:05,839
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe he jumps in. It just feels

1607
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 2: like there's or maybe somebody from the outside, uh, sort

1608
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 2: of Tom Steyer type figure.

1609
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 1: Well Styr jumped in, I think thinking it was I mean, look,

1610
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:21,559
Speaker 1: I just think sti Stier's problem is he doesn't wear well.

1611
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:25,639
Speaker 1: Yeah right, he's so intense. And I say this sort

1612
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:26,479
Speaker 1: of out of respect.

1613
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:27,679
Speaker 2: Way you don't.

1614
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:29,640
Speaker 1: You don't become as successful as he is if you

1615
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 1: don't have an intensity, a drive, all of those things.

1616
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 1: But it's not a pleasant it doesn't come across as

1617
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:38,679
Speaker 1: very accessible, Chuck.

1618
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:42,759
Speaker 2: I also wonder if Newsom and Newsom's lieutenants may try

1619
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,920
Speaker 2: to get back at maybe Padilla, have Padilla take a

1620
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:50,000
Speaker 2: look at it again, Tomal, the thing is possible.

1621
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: You know what this state I think, don't underestimate via

1622
01:33:56,400 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: Ragosa to suddenly charm his way. If they don't, if

1623
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 1: this field doesn't get better well.

1624
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 2: Also, also let's let's take Swallow seriously for a minutes.

1625
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:10,599
Speaker 2: Speaking of young House democrats. I know he can raise

1626
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 2: a ton of money. He knows how to raise money.

1627
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 2: And that's the that's the that's table stakes out there, right.

1628
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 2: You gotta get to the deal with money, and I

1629
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,240
Speaker 2: think he can do that. And also I'll tell you

1630
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 2: a little story here real fast. The day before the

1631
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 2: election in November now of last year, when California was

1632
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 2: voting on the ballot measure and reapportionment, I was in

1633
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:34,719
Speaker 2: San Francisco for the final rally that Knewsomb had at

1634
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:38,680
Speaker 2: a labor hall, but it was traded with drama, not

1635
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 2: things have knew some of his future, but because Pelosi

1636
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 2: was about to announce her retirement and this is her hometown.

1637
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:48,320
Speaker 2: So at the press conference after the rally, Gavin's not there.

1638
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 2: It's just it's it's Pelosi and the House Democrats, including

1639
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:57,400
Speaker 2: Zoe Lofgren and including Swallowell, and the body language of

1640
01:34:57,479 --> 01:35:01,440
Speaker 2: Pelosi trying to give attention to swall and nudge Swallwell

1641
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:04,520
Speaker 2: forward to get to the camera as fashion like Swallwell

1642
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 2: and you Walwell, that's not a bad person to have

1643
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:07,880
Speaker 2: in your corner.

1644
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:10,800
Speaker 1: She's well, it's funny you brought up San Francisco. My

1645
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: dark horse candidate to get talked into running is the

1646
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: mayor of San Francisco's daniel lewy because he could self

1647
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:23,000
Speaker 1: funder raise. He's already seen as like the center left

1648
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 1: mayor that's not woke and somehow is making San Francisco

1649
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:27,679
Speaker 1: work right.

1650
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 2: Well the point of personal privilege here, I think I

1651
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 2: was the first national rightly work you usually are to

1652
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 2: do a big piece on luriy. I was there for

1653
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 2: his inauguration in January. In fact, it was such a

1654
01:35:39,320 --> 01:35:41,320
Speaker 2: smart move when you did that. I remember this time

1655
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:43,800
Speaker 2: last year and I wrote a cable car with he

1656
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:47,680
Speaker 2: and his family. He's the anti Gavin. He's not flashy,

1657
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 2: he's not he's not swall. There's no gel in that here.

1658
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,800
Speaker 2: He's just a sort of grinder chuck. And he's a

1659
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:58,720
Speaker 2: business type. But he's got I mean, speaking of a

1660
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:01,600
Speaker 2: NAC for publicity. He has figured out the key to

1661
01:36:01,640 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 2: being mayor is you gotta sell cell sell, and boy,

1662
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,240
Speaker 2: he has sold San Francisco and everybody in the press

1663
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:09,800
Speaker 2: loves a comeback story. This city. There was all the

1664
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 2: drug user and the homeless nest. It's back. It's back

1665
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:16,600
Speaker 2: here we are. You know, the super Bowl is going

1666
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:19,839
Speaker 2: to be there next month at Santa Clara. But it's okay.

1667
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 2: He has gotten just count the Wall Street Journal news

1668
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:28,840
Speaker 2: stories and opinion columns about Daniel Lwry in that city

1669
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 2: in the last calendar year. Yeah, no, I mean it is.

1670
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 2: We'll find out. At least I've been one of the

1671
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:34,519
Speaker 2: first people.

1672
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 1: You say, one of the one of the worst things

1673
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:38,280
Speaker 1: you could have on your resume to be a national

1674
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,679
Speaker 1: figure is former mayor of San Francisco or former office

1675
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 1: holder in San Francisco. I just think, like you know,

1676
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris and Gavin Newsom are never going to become

1677
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:48,799
Speaker 1: president because of that, right, the perception of San Francisco

1678
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:52,240
Speaker 1: being sort of our like wild and crazy city, et cetera,

1679
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:57,400
Speaker 1: et cetera. But Lurie is interesting to me, and in

1680
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 1: some ways you know that. I don't think a tech

1681
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:05,000
Speaker 1: self funder is going to be trusted. I think the

1682
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:08,280
Speaker 1: pitchforks are out everywhere around the country, so I don't

1683
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:11,320
Speaker 1: think the old well maybe somebody in Silicon Valley will

1684
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:15,920
Speaker 1: throw money around. I think Lurie has laundered that image

1685
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 1: of himself by actually being in office, so he can

1686
01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 1: run as an office holder, not as.

1687
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 2: Just sort of somebody else who Lord knows craves and

1688
01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:27,720
Speaker 2: craves attention, and it has certainly huge ambitions. And that's

1689
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:31,040
Speaker 2: Roe Connell, the House member right now. I think I

1690
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:33,679
Speaker 2: heard he already rejected this. I've heard people went to him,

1691
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 2: you know, you can win this. He's just not going

1692
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:37,879
Speaker 2: to be denied the national stage.

1693
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:42,599
Speaker 1: He's not a Californian. I say this with respect. How

1694
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 1: often when you've had a conversation with Conna. Does he

1695
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:48,280
Speaker 1: make sure to know he grew up in Bucks County.

1696
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:52,200
Speaker 1: He does not want to be associated with a Californian,

1697
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:55,240
Speaker 1: so he has so far talked himself out of that,

1698
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 1: you know, and in some ways trying to rebrand himself

1699
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:02,040
Speaker 1: as the the guy who moved to California to learn

1700
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 1: about tech. But he's really a kid from Bucks you know.

1701
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

1702
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:12,200
Speaker 1: All right, all right, let me get this one more

1703
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:13,519
Speaker 1: and then I'll get you out of here. I promise

1704
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:17,000
Speaker 1: by the end of twenty twenty six, which Republican will

1705
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 1: emerge is the best position to challenge JD Vance for

1706
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,880
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty eight nomination. Your fours are Ted Cruz,

1707
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: who I've put in the Supreme Court by now, Ivanka Trump.

1708
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 1: I might, I might have done anybody with the Trump

1709
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 1: last name, not just Ivanka, but we'll put a pin

1710
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:34,040
Speaker 1: in that.

1711
01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:39,000
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson or Marco Rubia. What was your answer? I

1712
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,320
Speaker 2: had some fun here, Chuck, because I am a student

1713
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:45,040
Speaker 2: of the Chris Christie school of Donald J. Trump Studies,

1714
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 2: and the Chris Christie axiom is everybody around Donald Trump

1715
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 2: starts with one hundred points on a debit line and

1716
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 2: the devil line only goes one direction. It only goes sick. Right.

1717
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 2: The only exception to this is Ivanka Trump. She does

1718
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 2: not have that same challenge and Christie's Christie's bit is

1719
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 2: that the debit line goes south faster for some than others,

1720
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:11,000
Speaker 2: but it's only going one direction. And so if you

1721
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 2: if why did that maximum chuck, then Ivanka Trump is

1722
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 2: going to be the person who is best positioned to

1723
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 2: challenge Vans because Trump will get tired of everybody else, right,

1724
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 2: why her and not Laura? It's his daughter, I know.

1725
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 2: I mean blood. Blood is thicker than then than a

1726
01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 2: marriage license. Yeah, I mean I think we underestimate Trump's

1727
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 2: desire for you know, just sort of keeping the Trump name.

1728
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 1: And see, I totally agree with this. I am convinced

1729
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 1: that a Trump is going to be a candidate. I'm

1730
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:52,480
Speaker 1: so glad you wrote now. I just don't believe it's Avanta.

1731
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,720
Speaker 1: I actually, if I could buy stock work, it's Eric.

1732
01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 1: I think Trump. I think you know it's interesting. Have

1733
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:03,320
Speaker 1: you did you notice during Eric's book tour he totally

1734
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:07,200
Speaker 1: floated the idea of running for president himself. Someday he didn't,

1735
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:11,759
Speaker 1: and he never plays deference to his brother. Ever, Okay,

1736
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 1: ever he is. I think there's a weird rivalry between

1737
01:40:16,479 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 1: the two. I think it's obvious who Daddy trusts to

1738
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,280
Speaker 1: run the business and who he doesn't trust to run

1739
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 1: the business. And I think it's obvious who he thinks

1740
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:28,400
Speaker 1: is the most competent of his kids. I think he

1741
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,640
Speaker 1: thinks it's Eric. I think that's why Laura gets so

1742
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 1: much stuff. So I do think that you know, you're

1743
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:43,040
Speaker 1: in the same arena. I'man belief system I men, which

1744
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 1: is Trump is not going to let Vance have this easy.

1745
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:51,120
Speaker 1: He may eventually come around to Vance, but he's going

1746
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 1: to This is going to be something Vance is going

1747
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:57,840
Speaker 1: to have to He may have to get more. I mean,

1748
01:40:59,000 --> 01:40:59,840
Speaker 1: he may have to get thicker.

1749
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 2: Vance was anti Trump. Now now he's pro Trump. What's

1750
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:07,839
Speaker 2: to say he couldn't be anti Trump again, Ivanka, especially

1751
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 2: if he's sitting at thirty one percent. Vance is machiavelliant.

1752
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:11,360
Speaker 2: That's right.

1753
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:13,519
Speaker 1: Peter Teal is going to be telling him, Hey, maybe

1754
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:14,519
Speaker 1: time to ditch Trump.

1755
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:18,040
Speaker 2: Eric and Ivanka Trump are never going to be anti

1756
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 2: Trump because their last name was Trump. So it's like

1757
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 2: this is the family project.

1758
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is more likely than folks realize.

1759
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:28,760
Speaker 1: I know, and we're so dismissive. We're collectively dismissive of

1760
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 1: it because we're always dismissive of things we've never seen before. Yeah,

1761
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 1: and the thing with Donald Trump, with we all have

1762
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 1: had to learn is just because it hasn't happened doesn't

1763
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 1: mean it won't.

1764
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 2: There was a column I was going to write if

1765
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:44,120
Speaker 2: Laura Trump had run for the Senate. I wanted to

1766
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 2: write this. Now. She obviously didn't do it, but I

1767
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:49,280
Speaker 2: think her not running was significant. If she had run,

1768
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:51,960
Speaker 2: it would have been very important chuckle, because if she

1769
01:41:52,200 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 2: was to have won, it would have perpetuated the Trump

1770
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 2: name and create la Trump Dynasty. I know liberals are

1771
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 2: going to hate to hear that, but that's one step

1772
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 2: closer to making this a longer term project. It makes

1773
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:11,519
Speaker 2: it two generations of Trump's. I just think Laura took

1774
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 2: a pass in twenty six North Carolina. I don't think

1775
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 2: that we're going to have the next generation of Trump's

1776
01:42:17,560 --> 01:42:20,400
Speaker 2: take a pass forever, whether it's twenty eight or thirty.

1777
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 2: I remind you, will remind you of two cycles. Nineteen

1778
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:29,920
Speaker 2: ninety two, George HW. Bush loses a reelection. The following

1779
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:33,160
Speaker 2: cycle of nineteen ninety four, his two sons run for

1780
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:36,839
Speaker 2: governor of to the biggest states in the country. One wins,

1781
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:41,759
Speaker 2: one loses. But the point is that one cycle between

1782
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,559
Speaker 2: the two sons of the president running for governor. The

1783
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:47,559
Speaker 2: Trumps are nobless, the ambitious of the Bushes.

1784
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:51,320
Speaker 1: There are four names that there are four names out

1785
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:56,760
Speaker 1: there in American history that have produced multiple presidents or

1786
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,920
Speaker 1: close to presidents, right, and it's it's the adams Is,

1787
01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 1: the Roodosvelts, the Bushes, and the Kennedy's. And Trump wants

1788
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:05,040
Speaker 1: to be all of them.

1789
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:07,840
Speaker 2: Of course he does. I mean back to Mount Rushmore.

1790
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:11,720
Speaker 2: He wants, you know, literally but also betaphorically, he wants

1791
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:13,640
Speaker 2: to be on Rushmore. And one of the ways you

1792
01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:15,920
Speaker 2: do that is you name stuff after yourself. You get

1793
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:20,639
Speaker 2: peace prizes, you do big trade deals with countries.

1794
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: That and you get a kid elected, and you get

1795
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:24,080
Speaker 1: a scion elected.

1796
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 2: And you get a sign one who can carry the

1797
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:28,400
Speaker 2: banner going forward. We haven't talked about this yet, but

1798
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:31,679
Speaker 2: this is important. Twenty twenty six, The biggest China Dove

1799
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:34,519
Speaker 2: in Washington is Donald Trump, right, always has true. Trump

1800
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:37,959
Speaker 2: is a total China Dove. Look, it was so classic.

1801
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:40,400
Speaker 2: When he was asked at mar Lago about the new

1802
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:44,439
Speaker 2: Trump class of chefs, speaking of Trump names stuff after himself,

1803
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:48,080
Speaker 2: he said, is this is this being done to send

1804
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:53,800
Speaker 2: a message of containment or whatever against the Chinese? He said, no, no, no, no, no.

1805
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:56,240
Speaker 2: We got along with China very very well. I mean,

1806
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:58,559
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to be in conflict with China. He

1807
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 2: wants to deals with China. Chuck. I think twenty twenty

1808
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:06,120
Speaker 2: six will see Trump and n G standing together in

1809
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 2: Beijing signing a major deal. Now, who knows what the

1810
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 2: actual details are going to be. Trump doesn't care about that,

1811
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:15,320
Speaker 2: but the image is going to be indelible. Trump will

1812
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:19,400
Speaker 2: say I brought the two superpowers of the world together.

1813
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:23,040
Speaker 2: I preempted World War three, and I have done this

1814
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:26,840
Speaker 2: great personal diplomacy and brought brought our great nations together.

1815
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:29,599
Speaker 2: I'm telling you it's gonna happen in twenty twenty six.

1816
01:44:30,240 --> 01:44:33,680
Speaker 1: And that will be politically unpopular, both sides of the

1817
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 1: eye getting neck tozy with China. That could be what

1818
01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:40,960
Speaker 1: splinters his coalition. Yeah, you know, the dirty little secret

1819
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:44,599
Speaker 1: about the twenty twelve presidential election is how much China

1820
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:49,800
Speaker 1: bashing helped Obama defeat round mee yes in the industry

1821
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:51,839
Speaker 1: and the agricultural industrial Midwest.

1822
01:44:52,360 --> 01:44:54,840
Speaker 2: And I just you know, I don't think every time

1823
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:57,640
Speaker 2: Trump says he's for h one, BV says because we

1824
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 2: can't do those jobs in America says, yeah, you're gonna

1825
01:45:00,360 --> 01:45:03,639
Speaker 2: have Chinese kids here studying at universities. We need their money.

1826
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:08,040
Speaker 2: It's what he actually believes. Because the third Tomorrow, MAGA

1827
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 2: hates it. Now the true believers in MAGA hate it.

1828
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:19,519
Speaker 1: Get fun with lane Kiff, the Lane Kip and experience

1829
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 1: in als. We are speaking the night the morning after.

1830
01:45:23,439 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 2: Ole Missus, upset of Georgia. Yes, and the and the

1831
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:34,639
Speaker 2: lesser and the and the changing of the guard.

1832
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 1: The humiliation. I'm a what Alabama is going through. I

1833
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:42,120
Speaker 1: went through in two thousand and four, two thousand and

1834
01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:45,880
Speaker 1: five with Miami, where you're a you're you're still a dynasty,

1835
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:48,680
Speaker 1: but you could feel the exhaust fumes are catching up.

1836
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:51,479
Speaker 1: Other teams have caught up. For Miami, it was in

1837
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 1: a humiliation by LSU actually in a Peach Bowl. We

1838
01:45:55,479 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 1: lost forty two to three. It just sort of that

1839
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:00,240
Speaker 1: was it. That's when you knew it was over. The

1840
01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:04,519
Speaker 1: dynasty was ending a pay the era was ending for

1841
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:08,639
Speaker 1: Miami for that for that period, that Indiana loss felt

1842
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:11,840
Speaker 1: that way. I'm going in a long about way of this.

1843
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:14,679
Speaker 1: Calen de bor now has eight losses in two years.

1844
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:17,400
Speaker 1: It took Nick Saban five years to get eight losses.

1845
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 1: Another three loss or worse season in Tuscalalosa means he's

1846
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,360
Speaker 1: gone by the end of twenty six. Yes, I think

1847
01:46:26,439 --> 01:46:29,640
Speaker 1: Kleen de Boor is miserable. I think it's it sucks

1848
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,800
Speaker 1: you're the ghost you're chasing lives in Tuscaloosa. He's on

1849
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 1: ESPN all the time. God bless him. I love man.

1850
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 2: I love Nick Saban. Okay, i'm a. I'm a. I

1851
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:42,960
Speaker 2: love the guy I will I do. I want him.

1852
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 1: I want him to be commissioned. I think his idea

1853
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:49,040
Speaker 1: uh to to to move spring practices in the and

1854
01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:51,920
Speaker 1: the portal to May and June makes like total sense,

1855
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 1: right So, But I think the choice you left out

1856
01:46:56,920 --> 01:46:59,679
Speaker 1: on on Lane Kiffin experience in LSU will be drama,

1857
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:01,720
Speaker 1: toy of a year, et cetera, et cetera. The one

1858
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:04,680
Speaker 1: thing you leave out is him leaving for Alabama. But

1859
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:07,880
Speaker 1: I think there is one job he was The reason

1860
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:11,080
Speaker 1: he didn't sign that deal with LSU as quickly as

1861
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:13,759
Speaker 1: he did is he was waiting to see if Alabama

1862
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:16,599
Speaker 1: would lose the Iron Bowl to Auburn. He was waiting

1863
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:18,320
Speaker 1: to see if Alabama to get left out of the play.

1864
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 1: He if the Alabama job opens up, he wants it.

1865
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm telling you he wants it. And Lane Kit and

1866
01:47:26,479 --> 01:47:29,840
Speaker 1: I and I think, especially if LSU does pretty well

1867
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:32,120
Speaker 1: next year, which if they use old Missus roster, they.

1868
01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:35,599
Speaker 2: Will get it. In fairness to myself, I haven't written that.

1869
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:38,680
Speaker 2: I wrote it before Bama got spanked by Indiana. I

1870
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:42,639
Speaker 2: know you did. So there was no scenario on which

1871
01:47:42,680 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 2: Kilon the Boor was going to be on the hot

1872
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:48,040
Speaker 2: seat in twenty twenty six. There is now had gone

1873
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:52,320
Speaker 2: to or won a national title this year. Now that said,

1874
01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:56,960
Speaker 2: I agree, killing the Bore loses three to five games

1875
01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:00,200
Speaker 2: this fall in Alabama, it's going to be hard to

1876
01:48:00,240 --> 01:48:02,919
Speaker 2: hang on. And yeah, Kiffin the Mercenary, he would certainly

1877
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:05,519
Speaker 2: love to hop to Bama. There's there's no question about it.

1878
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:10,840
Speaker 2: I wonder if the Boor self deports Joe. I think

1879
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 2: he does. I think he would have.

1880
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:14,679
Speaker 1: I think if the Michigan I think the Michigan job

1881
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:19,679
Speaker 1: is such a potential nightmare scenario that anybody in there,

1882
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:22,360
Speaker 1: like I, I you want to I'll be the guy

1883
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:24,240
Speaker 1: after the next guy in Michigan.

1884
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:27,240
Speaker 2: Right like that, Let's let's stop bearing the leader and

1885
01:48:27,280 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 2: talk about what's actually on your mind, which is the

1886
01:48:29,439 --> 01:48:33,280
Speaker 2: University of Miami Hurricanes return to greatness. I mean, first

1887
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:35,840
Speaker 2: of all, I'm happy for you as your friend that

1888
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:37,479
Speaker 2: that your your experience in this.

1889
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 1: We're doing it the right way, that we're doing it

1890
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 1: in a sustainable way, that's all.

1891
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:50,280
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty sustainable. We'll see this so good

1892
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:53,040
Speaker 2: for the game of college football. Look at this final four.

1893
01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:58,160
Speaker 2: Jonathan Bama and Clemson were winning every other year. We're

1894
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:02,719
Speaker 2: deadening for the national game to have a West Coast

1895
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:07,439
Speaker 2: team like Oregon really competitive every year on upstart Big

1896
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:09,000
Speaker 2: ten that never had a football row.

1897
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,840
Speaker 1: Again, we've culturally all four regions of this country are

1898
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:14,479
Speaker 1: representing because Miami is not a southern school. Miami really

1899
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:17,240
Speaker 1: is an East coast school, right. Oh Miss is the

1900
01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:20,920
Speaker 1: southern school, Indiana's the Midwestern school, Oregon is the West

1901
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:26,520
Speaker 1: coast school. We really have the three major cultural regions

1902
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:28,960
Speaker 1: all represented in this Final four. Which is always what's

1903
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:32,519
Speaker 1: made college football better than the other sports because of

1904
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:38,160
Speaker 1: this ability to have fan bases in diverse cultural.

1905
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:41,200
Speaker 2: Only part of the country that didn't have a real

1906
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:44,920
Speaker 2: foot was the Northeast because it's a pro sports reagion.

1907
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:46,840
Speaker 2: It never wanted to be right. Well, you could argue

1908
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:49,840
Speaker 2: that Miami Northeast, Miami's the team of the Northeast, right,

1909
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:54,040
Speaker 2: because that's what I mean culturally Miami is it's the

1910
01:49:54,120 --> 01:49:57,000
Speaker 2: combination of the East Coast and the Northeast. You know,

1911
01:49:57,240 --> 01:50:00,320
Speaker 2: just happens to be in the in the in in

1912
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:02,560
Speaker 2: the South. It's kind of like it goes down basketball

1913
01:50:02,600 --> 01:50:04,679
Speaker 2: back in the day, right, you know the joke of Florida,

1914
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:07,800
Speaker 2: the farther south you go, the farther north, you go north.

1915
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:10,880
Speaker 2: You got right, Although nowadays the further south you go

1916
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 2: in Florida, like the further south you go into the

1917
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:15,559
Speaker 2: Caribbean itself. So all Latin America.

1918
01:50:17,080 --> 01:50:19,920
Speaker 1: But what is the what is the vibe in an

1919
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:22,720
Speaker 1: LSU world? I know you're pretty you're pretty connected with

1920
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:23,720
Speaker 1: these days about all this.

1921
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:29,639
Speaker 2: Are really really hopeful that Lane can do this. Look,

1922
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 2: there's this mentality that we have to have the biggest,

1923
01:50:33,120 --> 01:50:36,240
Speaker 2: the best, the shiniest. The first instinct both loves get

1924
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 2: Saban to come back. Second instinct was who's the next

1925
01:50:39,439 --> 01:50:41,280
Speaker 2: best current coach? And it was Lane Kiffin.

1926
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 1: So why wasn't it Signetti? Why didn't they throw a

1927
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:47,000
Speaker 1: barrel of money? Because actually that's who I think Alabama's

1928
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:47,360
Speaker 1: going to go.

1929
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:50,479
Speaker 2: Atleane kiffins a bigger name. Look, I think summer all

1930
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 2: at two, Lane is now going to Florida was more

1931
01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:56,719
Speaker 2: of an up and comer. I tell my Lsu brother

1932
01:50:56,880 --> 01:50:59,439
Speaker 2: in this, I said, guys, Nick Saban was not Nick

1933
01:50:59,479 --> 01:51:02,120
Speaker 2: Saban when he came to bad Rouge, right, it was

1934
01:51:02,120 --> 01:51:04,840
Speaker 2: the Michigan state coach. No, but he had won there.

1935
01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:06,160
Speaker 1: But let me add but that in the way it

1936
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:08,640
Speaker 1: works now you realize in college because I look at

1937
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,639
Speaker 1: how you know why Mario Cristobal got the job because

1938
01:51:11,680 --> 01:51:14,360
Speaker 1: he had a super pack waiting to go. Meaning just

1939
01:51:14,439 --> 01:51:17,560
Speaker 1: like in politics now, you're a better candidate for a

1940
01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:19,160
Speaker 1: job if you also.

1941
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 2: Can bring donors to the situation, and Mario had it.

1942
01:51:24,240 --> 01:51:27,200
Speaker 1: There was a donor community in South Florida that was

1943
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:30,559
Speaker 1: ready to cut checks if Mario has made the coach.

1944
01:51:31,080 --> 01:51:33,960
Speaker 1: If Manny was Diaz was kept the coach, A very

1945
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:37,600
Speaker 1: good coach, mind you. Okay, but if he was, he

1946
01:51:37,720 --> 01:51:39,720
Speaker 1: was the same amount of donors weren't going to write

1947
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:41,800
Speaker 1: as big as checks. So the point is is that

1948
01:51:41,840 --> 01:51:45,880
Speaker 1: Mario came in with Joey Maguire came in with checks. Right,

1949
01:51:46,320 --> 01:51:49,800
Speaker 1: I think this is the new world. You've got to bring.

1950
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:55,600
Speaker 1: Lane Kiffin brings money, got to bring he said, just

1951
01:51:55,680 --> 01:51:58,040
Speaker 1: like with you know, how are you a viable senate

1952
01:51:58,080 --> 01:51:59,840
Speaker 1: candidate to the John Thuns.

1953
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:04,719
Speaker 2: And Chuck Shum of the world if you ask LSU fans.

1954
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:08,839
Speaker 2: Probably though what's over under on Lane's tenure basically for years,

1955
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:12,840
Speaker 2: you know. Anyway, More importantly, I'm happy for you. It's

1956
01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:16,440
Speaker 2: gonna be five means uh. It's cool to see there

1957
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:18,559
Speaker 2: their return to greatness.

1958
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:21,960
Speaker 1: It's we haven't returned yet. We're knocking on the door

1959
01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:23,000
Speaker 1: in Miami.

1960
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:26,320
Speaker 2: There's only one thing that counts championships. We've never turned

1961
01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:30,200
Speaker 2: about old mister a minute too, because city has obviously,

1962
01:52:30,200 --> 01:52:33,479
Speaker 2: I mean speaking of a state film with insecurities, Oh gosh,

1963
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 2: in so many categories. Right, they always have the best

1964
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:40,080
Speaker 2: party in the grove, but they do always have the

1965
01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 2: best success on the field, and here they have this

1966
01:52:43,520 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 2: dream season. Their coach abandons them, breaks their heart and

1967
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:50,040
Speaker 2: they still are are are winning and have a chance

1968
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:55,160
Speaker 2: to win the national titles. I don't think this. I mean, obviously,

1969
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:58,719
Speaker 2: Indiana's been a cool story nationally. This has really gripped

1970
01:52:58,720 --> 01:53:02,320
Speaker 2: Mississippi like I don't any other story this year, because

1971
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:04,479
Speaker 2: it just means so much to them, right I.

1972
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:06,640
Speaker 1: You know it's interesting is is that this is one

1973
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 1: of those where there are there are good narratives for

1974
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:12,559
Speaker 1: whatever winner we get. The Indiana narrative is obvious, even

1975
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:14,880
Speaker 1: like Signetti said it the other day. Yeah, it's kind

1976
01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:18,080
Speaker 1: of a sports movie, right, but one could argue, oh,

1977
01:53:18,120 --> 01:53:20,519
Speaker 1: miss is a sports movie. The coach leaves and it's

1978
01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:23,000
Speaker 1: a rally around. But even Oregon and Miami have their

1979
01:53:23,040 --> 01:53:26,280
Speaker 1: own narratives, right. Oregon has been this organ's been knocking

1980
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:29,160
Speaker 1: on the door, but not really. They've been allowed into

1981
01:53:29,200 --> 01:53:33,200
Speaker 1: the into the club with a with a chaperone, but

1982
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:36,000
Speaker 1: they've never been able to Actually they're not they don't

1983
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:39,599
Speaker 1: have membership. They're always invited, but they've never actually earned

1984
01:53:40,040 --> 01:53:43,200
Speaker 1: a membership into the club. Even Miami has an old

1985
01:53:43,400 --> 01:53:44,439
Speaker 1: card into the club.

1986
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:44,680
Speaker 2: Right.

1987
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:48,280
Speaker 1: They're now they they're the lone blue blood left and

1988
01:53:48,360 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 1: I've never thought of Miami as a blue blood, but

1989
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 1: historically they have the resume of one.

1990
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:57,840
Speaker 2: But the stories. You can see the movie for a

1991
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:01,040
Speaker 2: little miss to Archie. Manning shot up this, you know,

1992
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:04,680
Speaker 2: and gets the team fired up, and they play by

1993
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:07,000
Speaker 2: the way they've played Archie clips last night in the

1994
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:11,200
Speaker 2: Superdome during the Sugar Bowl. That's fun and it's incredible

1995
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:13,479
Speaker 2: the hold he still has on that program. He's a

1996
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:16,360
Speaker 2: great guy and he still means so much to that program.

1997
01:54:16,439 --> 01:54:19,760
Speaker 2: The crowd went crazy the science of the Mannings. By

1998
01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:23,759
Speaker 2: the way, does a Manning win office before a Trump

1999
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:27,320
Speaker 2: child wins office? What do you think? I think the

2000
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:31,400
Speaker 2: Meanings will stick to commercials and ESPN. I think and

2001
01:54:31,439 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 2: we'll stay we'll stay out.

2002
01:54:32,680 --> 01:54:35,160
Speaker 1: Of One of them will get talked into running for something.

2003
01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:38,080
Speaker 1: You know it Cooper. Who knows which one of them

2004
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:39,560
Speaker 1: it is? Cooper Eli Peyton.

2005
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:43,320
Speaker 2: I think I think the Manning crew remembers the Michael

2006
01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:49,640
Speaker 2: Jordan Maxim and Michael Jordan Maxim was Republicans by sneakers too. Well.

2007
01:54:49,680 --> 01:54:53,640
Speaker 2: They're very savvy, they are, they're very sad. They've got

2008
01:54:53,880 --> 01:54:57,160
Speaker 2: they've got a fairly a political identity and which is

2009
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:59,640
Speaker 2: hard in this era. It's really hard in this era.

2010
01:55:00,120 --> 01:55:02,800
Speaker 2: And uh, I think they probably prefer to keep that

2011
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:07,440
Speaker 2: for a while, you know, uh o, k Mark you Uh,

2012
01:55:07,640 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 2: how do you?

2013
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 1: How do you feel as a uv A guy about

2014
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:11,720
Speaker 1: James Madison do you did you pull for him?

2015
01:55:11,720 --> 01:55:16,720
Speaker 2: Are we a little? I think JMU was a great

2016
01:55:16,720 --> 01:55:22,200
Speaker 2: one double a school that would have it's good for Virginia.

2017
01:55:22,760 --> 01:55:25,000
Speaker 2: I look, I I grew up to hearing for UVA

2018
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:29,280
Speaker 2: basketball and football growing up in Virginia. And George Welsh

2019
01:55:29,480 --> 01:55:33,200
Speaker 2: was an incredible coach, and those teams were fantastic in

2020
01:55:33,200 --> 01:55:36,440
Speaker 2: the nineties, and and and the odds. It's just hard

2021
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:39,880
Speaker 2: to sustain the modern football ear at a uv A

2022
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 2: a competitive football program, but if they had a hell

2023
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:46,000
Speaker 2: of a year. Basketball is more interesting there because of

2024
01:55:46,040 --> 01:55:49,560
Speaker 2: the portal era. Uh and and because of what Bennett

2025
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:52,680
Speaker 2: put together. And I think, you know, I know Ryan

2026
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:54,760
Speaker 2: Otam out to college with them. Ryan Otam has got

2027
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:56,640
Speaker 2: I think, great promise. It's gonna be fun to watch

2028
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:59,480
Speaker 2: UVA basketball this year. Excited for him.

2029
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 1: And I know that there's a lot of a lot

2030
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 1: of our UVA friends, Danielle Jones and Jest Jones. I mean,

2031
01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:07,640
Speaker 1: everybody's pull up for Ryan right, like there is a

2032
01:56:07,840 --> 01:56:09,960
Speaker 1: there's a big community behind him.

2033
01:56:09,960 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 2: So that's fine. Yeah, And look, I think I think

2034
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:14,880
Speaker 2: he's taking that program in the right direction. And I

2035
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:18,560
Speaker 2: think they have great, great problems. It's just tough chucking.

2036
01:56:18,680 --> 01:56:21,880
Speaker 2: All these coaches every year are putting together at least

2037
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:25,360
Speaker 2: four new kids on the court, if not five, and

2038
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:27,320
Speaker 2: there's just not much continuity.

2039
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:30,160
Speaker 1: Well, here's what it does put a premium on is

2040
01:56:30,600 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 1: I do think there's an extra premium and this is

2041
01:56:32,600 --> 01:56:35,080
Speaker 1: true now in college football, in it with the coordinators

2042
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 1: and in college basketball with the coaches. There's an extra

2043
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:39,560
Speaker 1: premium on actually coaching.

2044
01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:40,560
Speaker 2: Right.

2045
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:43,600
Speaker 1: It used to be you had to be a recruiter

2046
01:56:43,640 --> 01:56:46,320
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, but you've got to because the

2047
01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:49,400
Speaker 1: differentiators in football now are the quarterback and the coach.

2048
01:56:49,960 --> 01:56:52,720
Speaker 1: The different because talent is going to be evened out, right,

2049
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:55,800
Speaker 1: the market is gonna is going to essentially even it out.

2050
01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:59,560
Speaker 1: Ditto in basketball, so the distinctions are going to be

2051
01:57:00,040 --> 01:57:03,880
Speaker 1: coaching schemes and chemistry and things like that. That should

2052
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:06,320
Speaker 1: make it more exciting. I think college basketball ten years

2053
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:11,480
Speaker 1: from now is going to be deeper and better, uh,

2054
01:57:11,520 --> 01:57:14,240
Speaker 1: and it's going to be as high quality as college

2055
01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:15,840
Speaker 1: basketball was when you and I were growing up in

2056
01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:16,360
Speaker 1: the eighties.

2057
01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:21,400
Speaker 2: I really gotta be because of Nil. Well, there's got

2058
01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:23,640
Speaker 2: to be some rules. There's got to will be. I know,

2059
01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:26,160
Speaker 2: you know there's a rebellion now because some of these

2060
01:57:26,280 --> 01:57:28,480
Speaker 2: kids who are drafted and blading the Dali are now

2061
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:30,280
Speaker 2: coming back to play in college. There's got to be

2062
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:33,000
Speaker 2: some regulation. But I agree it's got huge potential. Yeah.

2063
01:57:33,120 --> 01:57:38,320
Speaker 1: You know who's a terrible spokesperson for lamenting about the Nioli, Well,

2064
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:39,640
Speaker 1: John Collar.

2065
01:57:40,760 --> 01:57:42,600
Speaker 2: He's got to look just.

2066
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 1: He may be right about his complaints, but you're like, dude,

2067
01:57:47,160 --> 01:57:52,160
Speaker 1: you know you benefited in a system that allowed Kentucky

2068
01:57:52,200 --> 01:57:56,320
Speaker 1: to benefit in ways that we still don't know the truth. Okay,

2069
01:57:56,920 --> 01:57:59,680
Speaker 1: I guess you know. The point is you John Kyler

2070
01:57:59,720 --> 01:58:02,000
Speaker 1: Parry upset that you don't get to create the velvet

2071
01:58:02,120 --> 01:58:04,680
Speaker 1: rope that you benefited from for a long time. So,

2072
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:08,600
Speaker 1: while again his complaints are correct, he's a terrible spokesperson

2073
01:58:08,720 --> 01:58:09,320
Speaker 1: being playing.

2074
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:12,920
Speaker 2: All right, Chuck godd don't go to Fayeville anytime soon.

2075
01:58:13,040 --> 01:58:15,360
Speaker 2: All Right. I love my friends in Fade, Phil.

2076
01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't think they're so you know, let's let's think

2077
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:22,640
Speaker 1: if I had you know, I'm an old A ten guy.

2078
01:58:23,120 --> 01:58:27,360
Speaker 2: John Calipari is what if gw at those games? Those

2079
01:58:27,480 --> 01:58:33,720
Speaker 2: games were at that Marcus Fantastics. We own them.

2080
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:35,440
Speaker 1: We are the only A ten team that owned you

2081
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:37,520
Speaker 1: man in those parts, keeping a rabbit hole.

2082
01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:41,440
Speaker 2: Now we should end on Marcus Cambia. You could, Oh

2083
01:58:41,480 --> 01:58:44,720
Speaker 2: my god, are you happy your man the late y?

2084
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:47,000
Speaker 2: Happy New Year, my friend. Yeah, it's good to see you,

2085
01:58:47,760 --> 01:58:54,760
Speaker 2: ARTU happy know you well?

2086
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:58,440
Speaker 1: Given that I'm recording all of this on January tewod

2087
01:58:58,480 --> 01:59:02,360
Speaker 1: it means I've now had two days to marinates in

2088
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:07,320
Speaker 1: Miami's victory over the Ohio State University.

2089
01:59:09,200 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 2: It is.

2090
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:11,200
Speaker 1: I think I told you at the start of this

2091
01:59:11,240 --> 01:59:16,960
Speaker 1: college football playoff that my fan expectations were we better

2092
01:59:17,040 --> 01:59:20,320
Speaker 1: win one. That would be embarrassing not to win one.

2093
01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:24,400
Speaker 1: I think we you know, I won't. I won't feel

2094
01:59:24,440 --> 01:59:27,320
Speaker 1: like the season successful if we're not in the semifinals.

2095
01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:30,959
Speaker 1: So we're in the semifinals. So I think that Miami's

2096
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:35,760
Speaker 1: where we always should be, where we belong. And of course,

2097
01:59:35,840 --> 01:59:37,720
Speaker 1: now in this day and age, can you win two more?

2098
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:45,240
Speaker 1: And let's just say that once you get this far,

2099
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:48,680
Speaker 1: you get greedy and you say to yourself, well, you're

2100
01:59:48,720 --> 01:59:53,680
Speaker 1: only two games away, and let's get this done.

2101
01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:58,200
Speaker 2: I go back to Miami.

2102
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,000
Speaker 1: It's so funny in this Miami of Miami Ohio State

2103
02:00:01,040 --> 02:00:05,080
Speaker 1: game because Miami literally was Ohio State twenty oh two

2104
02:00:05,640 --> 02:00:09,280
Speaker 1: in this game, right, It was sort of a The

2105
02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 1: announcers noted that the last time Miami was in a

2106
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:14,880
Speaker 1: relevant game was that two thousand and three Fiesta Pole,

2107
02:00:14,920 --> 02:00:17,880
Speaker 1: which was for the two thousand and two season where

2108
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:21,360
Speaker 1: the upstart was Ohio State. They were the former power

2109
02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:27,240
Speaker 1: trying desperately to get into the elite. Beating Miami was

2110
02:00:27,280 --> 02:00:30,640
Speaker 1: the way that they could get taken. Seriously, Miami was

2111
02:00:30,680 --> 02:00:32,880
Speaker 1: sort of part of the elite of the last you know,

2112
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:35,760
Speaker 1: nearly twenty years. At that point, they had been on

2113
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,760
Speaker 1: won five titles in eighteen years at the time, the

2114
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:43,360
Speaker 1: best run really since the old Notre Dame Army Navy,

2115
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:47,360
Speaker 1: you know era of the forties and fifties and the

2116
02:00:47,400 --> 02:00:50,280
Speaker 1: Bear Bryant eraw in Alabama, and it seemed like an

2117
02:00:50,320 --> 02:00:53,160
Speaker 1: era that nobody was ever going to top until a

2118
02:00:53,160 --> 02:00:55,800
Speaker 1: guy named Nick Saban showed up at Alabama a few

2119
02:00:55,840 --> 02:01:00,480
Speaker 1: years later. But that's how this game felt that Miami

2120
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:06,360
Speaker 1: was the sort of the old an old power that

2121
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:08,480
Speaker 1: was looking to prove it was back, and it had

2122
02:01:08,520 --> 02:01:11,040
Speaker 1: to beat one of the current blue bloods, which happened

2123
02:01:11,080 --> 02:01:14,920
Speaker 1: to be Ohio State. So that's why, symbolically I found

2124
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:17,120
Speaker 1: that the Ohio State game was so much. This was

2125
02:01:17,240 --> 02:01:20,640
Speaker 1: extraordinarily important for Miami to win to prove that it

2126
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:26,720
Speaker 1: is back. Important for recruiting. Ohio State success over the

2127
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:30,440
Speaker 1: last twenty years has been largely due to its success

2128
02:01:30,480 --> 02:01:34,200
Speaker 1: at recruiting in South Florida wide receivers more than anything else,

2129
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:38,640
Speaker 1: and it's been a huge blow to Miami, Florida and

2130
02:01:38,680 --> 02:01:44,240
Speaker 1: Florida State. Ohio State's success in recruiting South Florida specifically

2131
02:01:44,280 --> 02:01:47,240
Speaker 1: that one position group.

2132
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:48,000
Speaker 3: And.

2133
02:01:49,960 --> 02:01:52,600
Speaker 1: It was important to win a game like that in

2134
02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:55,640
Speaker 1: order to win some recruiting wars that we'd been losing.

2135
02:01:56,200 --> 02:01:59,000
Speaker 1: Miami over the last twenty five years had lost recruiting

2136
02:01:59,040 --> 02:02:02,360
Speaker 1: wars to Northern sco. We had dominated the recruiting wars

2137
02:02:02,640 --> 02:02:05,320
Speaker 1: against those Northern powers back in the eighties and nineties,

2138
02:02:05,680 --> 02:02:08,920
Speaker 1: but in the odds we were not winning those. We

2139
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:11,400
Speaker 1: won them at first and then started to lose them

2140
02:02:12,880 --> 02:02:15,960
Speaker 1: after Miami's run started to fade. So that's why I

2141
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:20,360
Speaker 1: think symbolically it was an important victory, but now it's

2142
02:02:20,360 --> 02:02:24,640
Speaker 1: a very winnable right The road is there, and Miami

2143
02:02:24,640 --> 02:02:30,920
Speaker 1: has built essentially not to lose games badly, so it

2144
02:02:31,000 --> 02:02:33,800
Speaker 1: means they're going to be in every game. The defense

2145
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:35,760
Speaker 1: is good enough to keep them in any game against

2146
02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:39,040
Speaker 1: any team. The question is whether the offense can score

2147
02:02:39,120 --> 02:02:42,960
Speaker 1: enough points to win said game. Now they just you

2148
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:47,640
Speaker 1: know it is it is. They scored more points against

2149
02:02:47,680 --> 02:02:51,320
Speaker 1: hous State than any team has done all season, including

2150
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:55,800
Speaker 1: the number one team in the country, Indiana. So look,

2151
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:59,840
Speaker 1: I think that there's certainly Miami has the talent to

2152
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:06,080
Speaker 1: win two more games if I think Miami's defense can

2153
02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:09,960
Speaker 1: slow down Old Missus offense. The question is is Miami's

2154
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:13,080
Speaker 1: offense good enough to exploit some of the weaknesses on

2155
02:03:13,120 --> 02:03:14,080
Speaker 1: Old Missus defense.

2156
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:17,080
Speaker 2: And that's a fair question to ask.

2157
02:03:17,200 --> 02:03:20,920
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to it, but I'm feeling

2158
02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:26,440
Speaker 1: pretty bullish. I think I will fully admit I misread

2159
02:03:26,760 --> 02:03:29,600
Speaker 1: the psyche of the Ole miss players. I did think

2160
02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:33,720
Speaker 1: with the portal opening now and that that game against

2161
02:03:33,800 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 1: Georgia was going to be problematic. Now I think they're

2162
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:40,360
Speaker 1: still going to have a distracted coaching staff, but the

2163
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:44,680
Speaker 1: players seem to be in some ways using this as fuel, using.

2164
02:03:44,440 --> 02:03:45,160
Speaker 2: This as energy.

2165
02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:47,480
Speaker 1: So there's a part of me worried that Miami is

2166
02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:51,400
Speaker 1: getting is just simply another episode in this sports movie

2167
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:53,800
Speaker 1: that is known as the team that loses its coach

2168
02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:58,480
Speaker 1: and wins the championship anyway, right, kind of like the

2169
02:03:58,800 --> 02:04:04,240
Speaker 1: Michigan basketball team Steve Fisher back in nineteen eighty nine.

2170
02:04:04,280 --> 02:04:05,160
Speaker 2: I think it was.

2171
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:10,839
Speaker 1: When the head coach of Michigan's basketball team leaves before

2172
02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:13,400
Speaker 1: the start of the NCAA tournament. I think his name

2173
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:16,640
Speaker 1: was Bill Freeder. He went to Arizona State and Michigan

2174
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:19,400
Speaker 1: was like, nope, you get out of here. They appoint

2175
02:04:19,480 --> 02:04:23,520
Speaker 1: the interim coach, Deve Fisher, and all he does is

2176
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:29,280
Speaker 1: when the whole thing on that one I think that

2177
02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:33,200
Speaker 1: was the Glen Rice team, if I'm not mistaken, but

2178
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:34,880
Speaker 1: it was that.

2179
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:37,640
Speaker 2: Was at the time a pretty impressive run.

2180
02:04:38,040 --> 02:04:41,880
Speaker 1: One of the all timers at that one, and this

2181
02:04:41,960 --> 02:04:43,920
Speaker 1: feels very similar to that. So there's a part of

2182
02:04:43,960 --> 02:04:46,000
Speaker 1: me worried, are we just a speed bump on the

2183
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:49,560
Speaker 1: way to old miss documentary history here? Then again, if

2184
02:04:49,600 --> 02:04:52,960
Speaker 1: you're a documentarian, which story is better The Rise of

2185
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:56,200
Speaker 1: Indiana football or the resilience of Old miss after Lane

2186
02:04:56,280 --> 02:04:59,400
Speaker 1: Kiffin leaves them at the altar, right like, this is a

2187
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:02,000
Speaker 1: pretty good sports movie in either direction that you choose

2188
02:05:02,040 --> 02:05:06,480
Speaker 1: to go. Miami and Oregon in comparison, are just very

2189
02:05:06,480 --> 02:05:09,760
Speaker 1: conventional narratives, although Miami versus Oregon is a fun little

2190
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:13,400
Speaker 1: Mario Crystobal Bowl, which would be fun. But that gets

2191
02:05:13,440 --> 02:05:15,720
Speaker 1: me to a few perception things that I want to

2192
02:05:15,720 --> 02:05:19,000
Speaker 1: get off the bat. First of all, I give Shannon Dawson,

2193
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:22,040
Speaker 1: that Miami play caller, a lot of grief. This was

2194
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:24,760
Speaker 1: the best game plan I have ever seen him put together.

2195
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:30,080
Speaker 1: He answered everything that I was upset about in the

2196
02:05:30,120 --> 02:05:32,440
Speaker 1: last game. You don't seem like a game plan for

2197
02:05:32,520 --> 02:05:34,880
Speaker 1: the defense you're facing. Look like we game plan for

2198
02:05:34,920 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 1: the defense we were facing. It feels like you didn't

2199
02:05:38,680 --> 02:05:42,160
Speaker 1: trust Carson Beck to make decisions. He trusted Carson Beck

2200
02:05:42,200 --> 02:05:45,120
Speaker 1: to make decisions. By the way, Carson Beck, he wears

2201
02:05:45,200 --> 02:05:48,360
Speaker 1: number eleven for Miami fans. It's the last guy to

2202
02:05:48,400 --> 02:05:54,800
Speaker 1: wear number eleven and do some incredible things with that

2203
02:05:54,920 --> 02:05:58,560
Speaker 1: jersey number. Was Ken Dorsey, the quarterback for the greatest

2204
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 1: college football team of all time, the two thousand and

2205
02:06:00,640 --> 02:06:03,720
Speaker 1: one Miami Hurricanes and the quarterback who should not have

2206
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:06,880
Speaker 1: been in the last in the last play of the

2207
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:11,000
Speaker 1: game in that Ohio State game, he had been knocked out.

2208
02:06:11,640 --> 02:06:14,200
Speaker 1: Today's concussion protocol never would have let him back in,

2209
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:19,080
Speaker 1: and Miami's backup quarterback probably should have been allowed to

2210
02:06:19,160 --> 02:06:22,840
Speaker 1: finish that game. And I still wonder to this day.

2211
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:25,600
Speaker 1: I think Dorsey was still rattled. He shouldn't have been

2212
02:06:25,640 --> 02:06:28,200
Speaker 1: brought back in. But I'm still nitpicking, right, never mind

2213
02:06:28,240 --> 02:06:28,920
Speaker 1: the bad call.

2214
02:06:29,960 --> 02:06:30,840
Speaker 2: We tie that game.

2215
02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:32,600
Speaker 1: We should We were right there at the one yard line,

2216
02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:34,360
Speaker 1: we had two shots at it, but he was still

2217
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:39,720
Speaker 1: He wasn't fully in that game on that front. But

2218
02:06:39,760 --> 02:06:42,600
Speaker 1: my point i'm back is beck reminds me of all

2219
02:06:42,640 --> 02:06:47,080
Speaker 1: the good traits of cars of Ken Dorsey. Look, you're

2220
02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:50,240
Speaker 1: not ever saying I never said nobody, no Miami fan

2221
02:06:50,280 --> 02:06:53,320
Speaker 1: thought Ken Dorsey was going to be an NFL starting quarterback.

2222
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:58,560
Speaker 1: You knew that, and yet he was the best quarterback

2223
02:06:58,640 --> 02:07:00,200
Speaker 1: Miami could have had guiding that team.

2224
02:07:00,240 --> 02:07:01,400
Speaker 2: He was a point guard quarterback.

2225
02:07:01,440 --> 02:07:03,440
Speaker 1: He knew how to get the ball in the hands

2226
02:07:03,440 --> 02:07:05,040
Speaker 1: of the people that needed to have it and what

2227
02:07:05,120 --> 02:07:08,520
Speaker 1: to do in the moment. And that's what it feels

2228
02:07:08,560 --> 02:07:10,320
Speaker 1: like Carson Beck has done. You know, there's all this

2229
02:07:11,640 --> 02:07:14,000
Speaker 1: and this gets into sort of a larger New Year's

2230
02:07:14,040 --> 02:07:16,720
Speaker 1: resolution that I think we all need to have, which

2231
02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:22,600
Speaker 1: is be careful of Internet perception. Painting a picture of

2232
02:07:22,640 --> 02:07:28,080
Speaker 1: somebody that you don't know anything about. There's this internet perception, right.

2233
02:07:28,520 --> 02:07:30,280
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a classic case of where this came

2234
02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:32,280
Speaker 1: in over the weekend. It's a great story in the

2235
02:07:32,320 --> 02:07:35,840
Speaker 1: Athletic about the new managing one of the late Jim

2236
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:39,680
Speaker 1: Mercy's three daughters are collectively running the team, but one

2237
02:07:39,720 --> 02:07:43,320
Speaker 1: daughter is the managing partner. She's sort of the one

2238
02:07:43,360 --> 02:07:46,560
Speaker 1: that sits at the owner's meetings, and the Athletic did

2239
02:07:46,600 --> 02:07:49,280
Speaker 1: a whole profile of her. And you know, I had

2240
02:07:49,320 --> 02:07:53,680
Speaker 1: first sort of noticed her when the Internet exploded with

2241
02:07:54,320 --> 02:07:56,200
Speaker 1: why is the owner on the sideline with a clipboard

2242
02:07:56,240 --> 02:07:56,839
Speaker 1: and a headset?

2243
02:07:58,040 --> 02:07:59,320
Speaker 2: And then I learned reading.

2244
02:07:59,120 --> 02:08:02,040
Speaker 1: That article that she's been doing this for years, just

2245
02:08:02,080 --> 02:08:04,640
Speaker 1: now people are noticing because now she's the general managing

2246
02:08:04,640 --> 02:08:08,000
Speaker 1: general partner of the team, not just her dad's just

2247
02:08:08,040 --> 02:08:12,520
Speaker 1: the daughter the owner. And after reading the piece, I thought, well,

2248
02:08:12,520 --> 02:08:15,280
Speaker 1: she's a terrific owner. She's exactly what an owner should

2249
02:08:15,320 --> 02:08:19,200
Speaker 1: be doing, which is to understand everything that goes in

2250
02:08:19,280 --> 02:08:21,720
Speaker 1: putting a team together so that you can help make

2251
02:08:21,800 --> 02:08:27,320
Speaker 1: good decisions. Anyway, the internet perception of her was, you know,

2252
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:30,800
Speaker 1: somehow right, the painting the picture of what she think?

2253
02:08:30,880 --> 02:08:32,839
Speaker 2: Who does she think she is? Being on the sideline

2254
02:08:32,880 --> 02:08:33,440
Speaker 2: type of thing.

2255
02:08:34,960 --> 02:08:37,919
Speaker 1: After reading the article, you're like, this is totally opposite

2256
02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:41,120
Speaker 1: of the perception being painted. This is happening a lot.

2257
02:08:41,280 --> 02:08:44,000
Speaker 1: You know, I look at how quickly the perception of

2258
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:48,720
Speaker 1: Mario Crystobaul is inbedted. You know, he's had a couple

2259
02:08:48,720 --> 02:08:54,520
Speaker 1: of high profile, questionable calls on when it comes to

2260
02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:57,640
Speaker 1: sort of clock management. Right, the Georgia Tech game for

2261
02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:00,360
Speaker 1: Miami fans is infamous. There's a couple of games Oregon

2262
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:02,640
Speaker 1: fans will remind you of when he was coach of Oregon.

2263
02:09:03,960 --> 02:09:07,360
Speaker 1: But you know what we forget why is in he

2264
02:09:07,880 --> 02:09:10,840
Speaker 1: Why is there's a reason he's at these major programs.

2265
02:09:11,240 --> 02:09:14,400
Speaker 1: He does know what he's doing. Okay, he made a

2266
02:09:14,440 --> 02:09:17,400
Speaker 1: couple of mistakes in moments where everybody's watching and it

2267
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:20,560
Speaker 1: can sort of create a perception. But guess what he

2268
02:09:20,600 --> 02:09:23,840
Speaker 1: also is doing is building a program. He does lean

2269
02:09:23,880 --> 02:09:28,160
Speaker 1: into his strength, which is identifying offensive line talent, and

2270
02:09:28,200 --> 02:09:30,640
Speaker 1: he's built the program and the image that he said

2271
02:09:30,680 --> 02:09:34,360
Speaker 1: he was going to do. Is he a little small

2272
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:37,120
Speaker 1: c conservative when it comes to on the offensive side

2273
02:09:37,120 --> 02:09:42,320
Speaker 1: of the ball, for my tasted times, it is, But

2274
02:09:42,880 --> 02:09:48,440
Speaker 1: is it working well? Results, scoreboard record point out all

2275
02:09:48,520 --> 02:09:51,120
Speaker 1: of them. And if he ends up, you know, he's

2276
02:09:51,160 --> 02:09:53,800
Speaker 1: already this idea that he can't win a big game. Well,

2277
02:09:54,600 --> 02:09:57,480
Speaker 1: does winning in the college football playoff at Kyle Field

2278
02:09:57,560 --> 02:10:00,920
Speaker 1: qualifies a big game? Does winning in the Cotton Bowl

2279
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:04,680
Speaker 1: against the number two ranked team in the country considered

2280
02:10:04,680 --> 02:10:07,520
Speaker 1: a big game? And now if he loses to Ole

2281
02:10:07,560 --> 02:10:09,240
Speaker 1: Miss as a favorite, are we going to say, Wow,

2282
02:10:09,280 --> 02:10:12,120
Speaker 1: Miami's terrible as a favorite. They're only good as an underdog. Well,

2283
02:10:12,160 --> 02:10:15,360
Speaker 1: that might be a you know, they're a small part

2284
02:10:15,400 --> 02:10:18,760
Speaker 1: of me nervous that Miami's the favorite. Now, when I

2285
02:10:18,920 --> 02:10:22,040
Speaker 1: liked being in this underdog role where we were the ace.

2286
02:10:22,160 --> 02:10:24,840
Speaker 1: The the sort of anti acc bias of every of

2287
02:10:24,920 --> 02:10:28,400
Speaker 1: betters and of the punditry on ESPN was we had

2288
02:10:28,400 --> 02:10:31,360
Speaker 1: all kicked in. You know now that we kicked the

2289
02:10:31,440 --> 02:10:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, because the win over Ohio State wasn't a fluke, right,

2290
02:10:36,120 --> 02:10:40,200
Speaker 1: We beat him up, We out physical them, and they

2291
02:10:40,480 --> 02:10:43,600
Speaker 1: thought they were going to out physical everybody else and

2292
02:10:43,680 --> 02:10:47,160
Speaker 1: they couldn't. Let's see what happens when we're matched up

2293
02:10:47,200 --> 02:10:50,839
Speaker 1: against you know, uh, another SEC team.

2294
02:10:51,960 --> 02:10:52,440
Speaker 2: We'll see and.

2295
02:10:52,440 --> 02:10:54,320
Speaker 1: We'll see if we can get past that, and we

2296
02:10:54,480 --> 02:10:58,600
Speaker 1: and we end up against either Oregon or Indiana. But

2297
02:10:59,680 --> 02:11:04,080
Speaker 1: by the way, I here's a question about the Indian

2298
02:11:04,160 --> 02:11:10,920
Speaker 1: Alabama game. Indiana looked like Alabama, and Alabama looked like

2299
02:11:11,080 --> 02:11:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, Alabama reminded me of Miami two thousand and five.

2300
02:11:15,680 --> 02:11:17,960
Speaker 1: So Miami was still considered, you know, it only been

2301
02:11:17,960 --> 02:11:20,040
Speaker 1: a couple of years removed from the national title game.

2302
02:11:20,360 --> 02:11:22,880
Speaker 1: They'd sort of only had one loss away from being

2303
02:11:22,920 --> 02:11:26,360
Speaker 1: in the three title game, and so there was this,

2304
02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, they were still one of the powers. And

2305
02:11:29,080 --> 02:11:31,320
Speaker 1: we ended up facing off and in one of these

2306
02:11:31,360 --> 02:11:35,200
Speaker 1: disappointment matchups with LSU and the Peach Bowl and LSU

2307
02:11:35,440 --> 02:11:39,200
Speaker 1: boat raced uts forty two to three. Players started infighting

2308
02:11:39,240 --> 02:11:40,240
Speaker 1: amongst themselves.

2309
02:11:40,520 --> 02:11:41,760
Speaker 2: It was just a disaster.

2310
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:45,520
Speaker 1: I think at that point Coker fired all of his assistants.

2311
02:11:45,640 --> 02:11:48,320
Speaker 1: Because Coker wasn't gonna get fired right away. He was

2312
02:11:48,360 --> 02:11:50,840
Speaker 1: being given, you know, some grace since he led the

2313
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,640
Speaker 1: team to back to back championship games. But it was

2314
02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:58,240
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end. I fear this for Calin

2315
02:11:58,280 --> 02:12:01,560
Speaker 1: de Boor with what happened. It wasn't that they lost

2316
02:12:01,560 --> 02:12:04,280
Speaker 1: to Indiana, It's how they lost. They just didn't look

2317
02:12:04,320 --> 02:12:07,160
Speaker 1: like they physically belonged on the field. And how did

2318
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:09,480
Speaker 1: just like that's what happened when Miami. It wasn't that

2319
02:12:09,560 --> 02:12:13,720
Speaker 1: Miami lost ale Iss hit was how they lost. And

2320
02:12:14,800 --> 02:12:17,120
Speaker 1: let's just say that in two years of Kurt Signetti

2321
02:12:17,120 --> 02:12:19,280
Speaker 1: as the next head coach of the University of Alabama,

2322
02:12:19,920 --> 02:12:24,720
Speaker 1: I won't be surprised and I do not accept the

2323
02:12:24,720 --> 02:12:29,120
Speaker 1: premise that Signetti wouldn't take the job. But what I

2324
02:12:29,200 --> 02:12:33,000
Speaker 1: saw the Knicks. If you're looking for a Nick Saban

2325
02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:38,200
Speaker 1: like Frankly, I gotta give Crystal Ball credit.

2326
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:38,760
Speaker 2: He looks.

2327
02:12:38,800 --> 02:12:43,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Miami didn't have a single accepted penalty. That's

2328
02:12:43,520 --> 02:12:47,480
Speaker 1: how that's Nick saban esque. That was never Miami's reputation

2329
02:12:47,560 --> 02:12:50,360
Speaker 1: over the years. Now I got handed to those SEC officials.

2330
02:12:50,400 --> 02:12:52,560
Speaker 1: They were SEC officials doing the Miami Ohio state game.

2331
02:12:52,800 --> 02:12:55,040
Speaker 1: Boy did they let everybody play. There were a couple

2332
02:12:55,040 --> 02:12:58,880
Speaker 1: of hits that I swear Miami would have been flagged

2333
02:12:58,880 --> 02:13:02,760
Speaker 1: on if they were a CEC officials, it just had

2334
02:13:02,800 --> 02:13:05,160
Speaker 1: been a given and Miami doesn't get flagged. They sort

2335
02:13:05,160 --> 02:13:08,320
Speaker 1: of the quote let him play and if there was

2336
02:13:08,320 --> 02:13:11,440
Speaker 1: a baton passing moment. There's this video if you haven't

2337
02:13:11,480 --> 02:13:15,280
Speaker 1: seen it, that's going around Carnel Tait. It basically short

2338
02:13:15,400 --> 02:13:19,040
Speaker 1: arms a throw from saying because he was about to

2339
02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:20,840
Speaker 1: get hit, and it looked like he was afraid to

2340
02:13:20,840 --> 02:13:23,280
Speaker 1: get hit. And that was I remember when they showed

2341
02:13:23,320 --> 02:13:27,280
Speaker 1: the replay. I saw it and I even remarked in

2342
02:13:27,400 --> 02:13:31,120
Speaker 1: the room, huh, boy, look at how afraid they are

2343
02:13:31,120 --> 02:13:35,000
Speaker 1: of getting hit Miami. Miami is certainly making them uncomfortable

2344
02:13:35,480 --> 02:13:40,000
Speaker 1: looking back, boy, that's the that feels like the symbolic

2345
02:13:40,080 --> 02:13:43,520
Speaker 1: moment that the baton was passed back to Miami and

2346
02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:48,160
Speaker 1: here they come. Because I promise you this, this physicality

2347
02:13:48,160 --> 02:13:53,160
Speaker 1: that Miami's bringing back isn't a one year phenomenon. It's

2348
02:13:53,240 --> 02:13:56,200
Speaker 1: it's I think going to be the DNA. It's certainly

2349
02:13:56,240 --> 02:14:01,080
Speaker 1: Mario Crystobal's DNA. So the question I have is will

2350
02:14:01,120 --> 02:14:04,680
Speaker 1: we will ask will the big time athletes still want

2351
02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:08,160
Speaker 1: to play in a small C conservative offense. That's the

2352
02:14:08,200 --> 02:14:11,400
Speaker 1: only concern I might have. But this day and age,

2353
02:14:11,400 --> 02:14:14,360
Speaker 1: winning Trump's everything, and if we're winning, people want to

2354
02:14:14,360 --> 02:14:20,120
Speaker 1: be a part of a winning culture. But anyway, just

2355
02:14:20,160 --> 02:14:23,200
Speaker 1: be careful of perceptions. Right, we sit here and we

2356
02:14:23,640 --> 02:14:27,800
Speaker 1: allow the Internet to fuel perceptions of certain individuals, certain people,

2357
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:33,080
Speaker 1: certain resumes. When and then when the when it doesn't

2358
02:14:33,120 --> 02:14:36,880
Speaker 1: when when they don't play to the internet type, we think, oh, well,

2359
02:14:36,880 --> 02:14:38,960
Speaker 1: there must be something wrong with the other team. When

2360
02:14:39,080 --> 02:14:43,360
Speaker 1: you know it is we probably were over zealous in

2361
02:14:43,440 --> 02:14:46,040
Speaker 1: the characters in the caricature that was being created.

2362
02:14:46,680 --> 02:14:46,760
Speaker 2: Uh.

2363
02:14:47,080 --> 02:14:50,520
Speaker 1: I've participated in that over zealousness at times, and I've

2364
02:14:50,520 --> 02:14:54,800
Speaker 1: gotten because we as a fanatic fan short for fanatic,

2365
02:14:55,160 --> 02:14:58,080
Speaker 1: I've certainly had my strong opinions about how certain things

2366
02:14:58,120 --> 02:15:00,880
Speaker 1: went uh with Miami. But let's just say this is

2367
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:04,120
Speaker 1: this is always what I expected, and this is what

2368
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:07,440
Speaker 1: the Miami fan base is about, which is we expect

2369
02:15:07,440 --> 02:15:11,800
Speaker 1: to be contenders for national titles hard stop. Nothing else matters,

2370
02:15:12,000 --> 02:15:13,880
Speaker 1: and you can say, well, go win an ACC title.

2371
02:15:13,920 --> 02:15:16,520
Speaker 1: We've never cared about conference titles because we're still in

2372
02:15:16,640 --> 02:15:19,040
Speaker 1: I still view us as an independent who's been a

2373
02:15:19,080 --> 02:15:22,000
Speaker 1: mercenary for these conferences. We joined a conference because of

2374
02:15:22,000 --> 02:15:24,600
Speaker 1: the other sports. We never wanted to join conferences, but

2375
02:15:24,640 --> 02:15:27,880
Speaker 1: we did it out of scheduling purposes. It isn't a matter.

2376
02:15:28,520 --> 02:15:31,080
Speaker 1: It's what conference gives Miami the best shot at competing

2377
02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:34,960
Speaker 1: for a national title and or what system works, and

2378
02:15:35,600 --> 02:15:42,400
Speaker 1: so ultimately, if Miami is operating on the level that

2379
02:15:42,400 --> 02:15:48,240
Speaker 1: they're operating on this year, for the foreseeable future, you know,

2380
02:15:48,360 --> 02:15:51,320
Speaker 1: as long as we're contending, and when one out of

2381
02:15:51,360 --> 02:15:54,840
Speaker 1: every three or four, you're going to have a satisfied

2382
02:15:56,280 --> 02:15:59,480
Speaker 1: fan base. I'd like to think we won't lose it

2383
02:15:59,600 --> 02:16:01,960
Speaker 1: the way we're already seeing our friends at Ohio State

2384
02:16:02,040 --> 02:16:05,880
Speaker 1: lose it over Ryan Day. I mean, what more does

2385
02:16:05,920 --> 02:16:08,480
Speaker 1: he have to do to keep his seat from warming

2386
02:16:08,600 --> 02:16:11,600
Speaker 1: up too much in the next year if he somehow

2387
02:16:11,640 --> 02:16:14,640
Speaker 1: loses another game or two before getting back to a

2388
02:16:14,680 --> 02:16:19,360
Speaker 1: title game. But look, we'll see, I am.

2389
02:16:21,160 --> 02:16:21,880
Speaker 2: It is tough.

2390
02:16:22,000 --> 02:16:25,360
Speaker 1: It is interesting to me that I heard Reees Davis

2391
02:16:25,360 --> 02:16:28,840
Speaker 1: say this playoff rematches that take place in the playoffs

2392
02:16:30,600 --> 02:16:34,760
Speaker 1: from the regular season, the only time where the same

2393
02:16:34,800 --> 02:16:38,760
Speaker 1: team won twice was a miss over tu Lane this year,

2394
02:16:39,640 --> 02:16:42,560
Speaker 1: So every other rematch has gone the other way. Not

2395
02:16:42,680 --> 02:16:45,920
Speaker 1: the best omen And I do worry Indiana is getting

2396
02:16:45,959 --> 02:16:49,480
Speaker 1: so many flowers. Excuse me, roses thrown their way?

2397
02:16:49,560 --> 02:16:50,000
Speaker 2: Right now?

2398
02:16:50,879 --> 02:16:53,119
Speaker 1: Is this just like Miami's getting a bunch of stuff

2399
02:16:53,160 --> 02:16:57,040
Speaker 1: thrown their way. I'm nervous about Miami being a favorite.

2400
02:16:57,200 --> 02:16:59,200
Speaker 1: If I were an Indiana fan, I'd be nervous about

2401
02:16:59,280 --> 02:17:05,920
Speaker 1: suddenly Indiana being such a heavy favorite. So we'll see,

2402
02:17:06,400 --> 02:17:08,760
Speaker 1: it's going to be. It's a fun final four. And

2403
02:17:08,840 --> 02:17:11,800
Speaker 1: how about the fact that all four cultural centers of

2404
02:17:11,840 --> 02:17:14,959
Speaker 1: America are represented. Miami is very much an East coast,

2405
02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:20,240
Speaker 1: Northeast five school, oh Miss, as deep south as you get, Indiana,

2406
02:17:20,400 --> 02:17:23,680
Speaker 1: as midwest as you can get in Oregon, the West coast.

2407
02:17:24,200 --> 02:17:26,520
Speaker 1: This is what makes the college football so great, right

2408
02:17:26,760 --> 02:17:29,160
Speaker 1: And the fact that the final four worked out this

2409
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:35,200
Speaker 1: way despite the attempts of the conference conference commissioners to

2410
02:17:35,240 --> 02:17:39,879
Speaker 1: screw this up. Don't screw this up, guys. If we

2411
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:44,080
Speaker 1: can produce a system, ultimately the conferences should be secondary.

2412
02:17:44,879 --> 02:17:46,960
Speaker 1: If this is going to be what our system is,

2413
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:49,960
Speaker 1: and we should go from there, and we can improve

2414
02:17:50,080 --> 02:17:53,440
Speaker 1: scheduling and all of these things, but this result should

2415
02:17:53,560 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 1: ultimately be what we get every time, which is some

2416
02:17:56,720 --> 02:18:02,680
Speaker 1: geographic diversity, hands and sort of spreading the wealth a

2417
02:18:02,680 --> 02:18:06,160
Speaker 1: little bit, and that's the dirty little secret about NIL. Right,

2418
02:18:06,280 --> 02:18:09,879
Speaker 1: pre Nil, we only had a lot of Alabama, a

2419
02:18:09,879 --> 02:18:12,400
Speaker 1: lot of Clemson, a little bit of Georgia, and not

2420
02:18:12,560 --> 02:18:16,000
Speaker 1: much else. Right, what has NIL done? Look, there's still

2421
02:18:16,000 --> 02:18:17,720
Speaker 1: the haves and the have nots, but there's now more

2422
02:18:17,720 --> 02:18:25,119
Speaker 1: halves than we've ever had before. And isn't that. People

2423
02:18:25,200 --> 02:18:30,199
Speaker 1: in Bloomington, Indiana are pretty excited about this. People in Eugene,

2424
02:18:30,240 --> 02:18:33,560
Speaker 1: Oregon are pretty excited about this. People in Oxford, Mississippi

2425
02:18:33,560 --> 02:18:37,320
Speaker 1: are pretty excited about this. And yes, those of us

2426
02:18:39,440 --> 02:18:42,440
Speaker 1: in Miami and Coral Gables are extraordinarily excited about this.

2427
02:18:42,959 --> 02:18:45,920
Speaker 1: So anyway, enjoyed the next two games.