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Speaker 1: In this episode of the News World. The lives of

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Speaker 1: these men are essential to understand the American form of

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Speaker 1: government and our ideals of liberty. The founding fathers all

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Speaker 1: played key roles in securing American independence from Great Britain

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Speaker 1: and in the creation of the government of the United

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Speaker 1: States of America. Now the life of John Jay. Jay

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Speaker 1: was born in New York City on December twelfth, seventeen

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Speaker 1: forty five. His grandfather, Augustus Jay, was a French Huguenot

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Speaker 1: who came to America in the sixteen eighties seeking religious freedom.

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Speaker 1: His father, Peter j was a merchant who retired to

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Speaker 1: a farm and rune in New York shortly after John

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Speaker 1: was born. In his early years, he was educated by

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Speaker 1: private tutors and then entered King's College in the summer

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Speaker 1: of seventeen sixty. King's College became Priston much years later.

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Speaker 1: After graduating in seventeen sixty four, Jay became a law

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Speaker 1: clerk in the office of Benjamin Cassim. After his admission

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Speaker 1: to the bar in seventeen sixty eight, Jay established a

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Speaker 1: legal practice with Robert R. Livingston Junior, and in seventeen

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Speaker 1: seventy one he opened his own law firm. In April

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Speaker 1: of seventeen seventy four, Jay married Sarah Livingston, the daughter

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Speaker 1: of New Jersey Governor William Livingston, and in May of

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Speaker 1: seventeen seventy four Jay undered New York politics and he

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Speaker 1: never returned to his law practice. Jay initially wanted reconciliation

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Speaker 1: with Britain. He advocated for a peaceful resolution. Jay, as

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Speaker 1: a member the First Condinal Congress, wrote an address to

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Speaker 1: the people of Great Britain on October twenty first, seventeen

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Speaker 1: seventy four, outlining the grievances that the colonies said, but

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Speaker 1: also hoping for a peaceful resolution. It's important remember that

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Speaker 1: as the pattern builds towards revolution, that in fact there

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Speaker 1: a lot of people wrestling with themselves. Do we really

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Speaker 1: have to do this? And Jay was one of those people.

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Speaker 1: He wrote quote in almost every age in repeated conflicts,

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Speaker 1: in long and bloody wars as well civil as foreign,

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Speaker 1: against many and powerful nations, against the open assaults of enemies,

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Speaker 1: and the more dangerous treachery of friends, have the inhabitants

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Speaker 1: of your island, your great and glorious ancestors, maintained their

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Speaker 1: independence and transmitted the rights of men, and the blessings

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Speaker 1: of liberty to you their posterity, be not surprised. Therefore,

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Speaker 1: the we who are descended from the same common ancestors,

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Speaker 1: the we whose forefathers participated in all the rights, the liberties,

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Speaker 1: and the constitution you so justly boast of, and who

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Speaker 1: have carefully conveyed the same fair inheritance to us, guaranteed

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Speaker 1: by the plighted faith of government and the most solemn

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Speaker 1: compacts with the British sovereigns, should refuse to surrender them

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Speaker 1: to men who found their claims are no principles of reason,

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Speaker 1: and who prosecute them with a design that, by having

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Speaker 1: their lives and property in their power, they may with

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Speaker 1: the greater facility and slave you. Because of America is

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Speaker 1: now the object of universal attention, it has at length

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Speaker 1: become very serious. This unhappy country is not even oppressed,

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Speaker 1: but abused and misrepresented. And the duty we owe to

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Speaker 1: ourselves and posterity, to your interest and the general welfare

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Speaker 1: of the British Empire, leads to address you on this

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Speaker 1: very important subject. Know then that we consider ourselves and

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Speaker 1: do insist that we are and ought to be as

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Speaker 1: free as our fellow subjects. In Britain, and that no

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Speaker 1: power on earth has a right to take our property

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Speaker 1: from us without our consent. That we claim all the

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Speaker 1: benefits secure to the subject by the English Constitution, and

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Speaker 1: particularly that inestimal woman of trial by jury, that we

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Speaker 1: hold it essential to English liberty that no man be

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Speaker 1: can on heard or punished for supposed offenses without having

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Speaker 1: an opportunity of making his defense. That we think the

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Speaker 1: Legislature Great Britain is not authorized by the Constitution to

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Speaker 1: establish a religion fraught with sandveinary in impious tenets, or

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Speaker 1: to erect an arbitrary form of government in any quarter

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Speaker 1: of the globe. These rights we, as well as you,

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Speaker 1: deem sacred, and yet sacred as they are, they have

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Speaker 1: with many others, then repeatedly and flagrantly violated. Jay contributed

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Speaker 1: to the early draft of the Olive Branch Petition, which

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Speaker 1: the Second Continental Congress wrote to King George the Third

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Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy four as a last attempt to reconcile

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Speaker 1: with Britain before going to war. Note just the term

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Speaker 1: Olive Branch petition. These are cornials who really want to

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Speaker 1: remain British, They really want to avoid war. They really

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Speaker 1: want to have the king respond so they can be

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Speaker 1: loyal to the king. Furthermore, Jay was one of the

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Speaker 1: lead authors of the New York State Constitution, which replaced

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Speaker 1: the colonial Royal Charter. Notice. Step by step, reluctantly, he

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Speaker 1: moves from offering total support to Britain, signing an olive

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Speaker 1: branch petition, and now writing notice not New York colony

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Speaker 1: New York State Constitution. Shortly after the ratification of the

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Speaker 1: New York State Constitution, on May seventeen, seventy seven, the

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Speaker 1: New York Provincial Congress elected Jay to the Chief Justice

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Speaker 1: of the New York Supreme Court of Judicature, where he

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Speaker 1: served for two years. During his time as Chief Justice,

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Speaker 1: New York was still under English rule. Jay wrote to

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Speaker 1: Governor Morris of his time as Chief Justice, quote, I

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Speaker 1: am now engaged in the most disagreeable part of my duty,

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Speaker 1: trying criminals. They multiply exceedingly, Robberies become frequent, the woods

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Speaker 1: afore them shelter, and the tori's food punishment master course

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Speaker 1: becomes certain and mercy dorned. A harsh system, repugnant to

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Speaker 1: my feelings, but nevertheless necessary. So Jay's torn because, on

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Speaker 1: the one hand, he really wants to be a nice guy.

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Speaker 1: He's really tried all the way through to appease Great Britain,

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Speaker 1: to appease the King. But the reality was they're now

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Speaker 1: in a real war, and that they are in a

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Speaker 1: period where there's more and more dissolution of society, there

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Speaker 1: are more and more criminals, and that many of those

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Speaker 1: criminals found themselves sheltered by the Tories, who of course

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Speaker 1: were pro king, and he saw some of the criminals

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Speaker 1: as being their allies against the rebels who are pro American.

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Speaker 1: And so Jay finds himself on the one hand, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't really want to put these people in jail, but

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, if he doesn't, the whole system's

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Speaker 1: going to fall apart. He's very conflicted because one form

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Speaker 1: of justice requires punishing them. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: their very existence is an illustration of the conflict that

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Speaker 1: the virtual civil war that is now broken loose. And

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Speaker 1: remember that about twenty percent of Americans remained loyal to

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Speaker 1: the King, who wasn't unanimity. The best estimate I think

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Speaker 1: he is about forty percent were in fact committed to

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Speaker 1: the revolution. At least twenty percent were committed to the

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Speaker 1: King in about another forty percent frankly just wanted to

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Speaker 1: go about their life and stay out of it. So

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Speaker 1: it wasn't any kind of unanimous automatic hiphip Paray and

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Speaker 1: Jay is trying to balance justice what he really believes in,

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Speaker 1: with necessity, which he accepts to be true. Now he's

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Speaker 1: taken out of the court and from seventeen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: to seventeen eighty two he serves as the ambassador to Spain.

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Speaker 1: Remember by this stage he's the ambassador for the United States,

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Speaker 1: and so he has broken decisively with England. He was

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Speaker 1: sent to Spain to convince the Spanish government to recognize

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Speaker 1: America as a separate nation, without any success. Spain did

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Speaker 1: not want to risk any kind of relationship until it

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Speaker 1: became evident that Britain and the United States were going

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Speaker 1: to sign a treaty and recognize US independence. Spain was

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Speaker 1: very vulnerable the blockade by the British navy, and they

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Speaker 1: didn't want to get into a fight directly with England

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Speaker 1: if they could avoid it. Jay is continuing to think

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Speaker 1: about America evenly was in Spain and ony tenth they

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Speaker 1: seventeen eighty five, he wrote to John Lowell and his

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Speaker 1: vision for a group of the United States. Quote. It

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Speaker 1: is my first wish to see the United States assume

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Speaker 1: and merit the character of one grade nation whose territories

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Speaker 1: divided into different states merely for more convenient government and

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Speaker 1: more easy and prompt administration of justice, just as our

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Speaker 1: several states are divided into counties and townships for the

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Speaker 1: like purpose. Now Jay realized that we had this balance.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't stay thirteen separate small states without having the French,

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Speaker 1: the British, the Spanish, and others trying to manipulate this.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, there's a real challenge. If you

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Speaker 1: build a government strong enough to stop foreigners from exploiting you,

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Speaker 1: does it become so strong that the government itself exploits you?

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Speaker 1: And Jay realized, based upon the Spirit of the Laws,

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Speaker 1: a book written by Monuscue, a French theoretician about forty

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Speaker 1: years earlier, that the best way to preserve freedom was

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Speaker 1: to have three different and separate branches of government. On

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Speaker 1: August eighteen, seventeen eighty six, he wrote Thomas Jefferson quote,

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Speaker 1: I have long sought and become daily more convinced that

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Speaker 1: the construction of our federal government is fundamentally wrong. To

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Speaker 1: Thus the legislative of judicial and executive powers in one

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Speaker 1: and the same body of men, And that too, in

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Speaker 1: a body daily changing its members can never be wise.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, these three great departments of sovereignty should

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Speaker 1: be forever set and so distributed as to service checks

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Speaker 1: on each other. Now, that was clearly Montusque's model, and

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Speaker 1: it's one which the Founding Fathers gradually all come to

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Speaker 1: agree is the right one. On January seventh, seventeen eighty seven,

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Speaker 1: Jay wrote to George Washington, quote, let Congress legislate, let

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Speaker 1: others execute, let others judge. In other words, clear division

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Speaker 1: of power between the three branches, something which remember, we're

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Speaker 1: still fighting over. I mean, you have judges telling the

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Speaker 1: chief executive what he can and can't do. You have

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Speaker 1: Congress and several fights with the executive branch and the judges.

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Speaker 1: And that is by design. The Founding Fathers wanted a

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Speaker 1: government strong enough to protect us from foreigners, and a

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Speaker 1: government that was weak enough that it could not infect

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Speaker 1: enslave us. And that's the model we're still wrestling with.

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Speaker 1: So on January twenty seventh, seventeen eighty six, well, the

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Speaker 1: government was still one of the Articles of Confederation, which

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Speaker 1: had clearly failed. Jay wrote to Washington, warning him that

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Speaker 1: the population quote will be led by the insecurity of property,

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Speaker 1: the losing of confidence and their rulers, and the want

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Speaker 1: of public faith and rectitude to consider the charms of liberty,

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Speaker 1: imaginary and de lusique. In other words, if they can't

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Speaker 1: get government to work, if they can't make life better,

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Speaker 1: if they can't find a way to solve problems of

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Speaker 1: inflation and other things, people is going to give up

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Speaker 1: on self government. On August fifteenth, seventeen eighty six, Washington

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Speaker 1: responded to writing quote year sentiments, that our affairs are

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Speaker 1: drawing rapidly to a crisis accord with my own. Now,

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Speaker 1: these are the guys who just won the Revolutionary War.

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Speaker 1: In Washington's case, he'd spent eight years in the field,

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Speaker 1: only going back home command Vernon one time in eight years.

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Speaker 1: And they were looking at the great achievement of getting

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Speaker 1: free from Britain, gradually disintegrating because they don't have a

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Speaker 1: common government and a common set of rules. Continental Congress

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Speaker 1: wasn't capable of running things. And so they met in

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia and what was really a coupd eytalk. They were

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Speaker 1: supposed to go and fix the Articles of Confederation. Instead,

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Speaker 1: they just dumped them and they wrote the Constitution of

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Speaker 1: the United States. Now, the Constitution, in order to become real,

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Speaker 1: had to go out and be ratified by the people,

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Speaker 1: and in order to convince the people, articles had to

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Speaker 1: be written. The most famous collection, I think the most

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Speaker 1: famous and powerful pamphlets in political history are the Federalist papers.

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Speaker 1: They're eighty five of them. They are remarkable, and for

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Speaker 1: anybody who truly wants to understand American government, there is

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Speaker 1: no better starting point. Jay wrote five of them, numbers two, three, four, five,

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Speaker 1: and sixty four. His first paper, Federals Number one, stressed

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Speaker 1: the importance of government. Jay wrote, quote, nothing is more

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Speaker 1: certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is

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Speaker 1: equally undeniable that whenever and however it is instituted, the

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Speaker 1: people must cede to it some of their natural rights

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Speaker 1: in order to vest it with requisite powers. In his

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Speaker 1: fourth paper, Jay wrote the need to be united, writing

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Speaker 1: leave America divided into thirteen, or if you please, into

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Speaker 1: three or four independent governments? What armies could they raise

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Speaker 1: and pay? What fleets could they ever hope to have?

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Speaker 1: If one was attacked with the others fly to its

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Speaker 1: sucker and spend their blood and money in its defense.

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Speaker 1: Would there be no danger of their being flattered into

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Speaker 1: neutrality by specious promises or seduced by a too great

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Speaker 1: fondness for peace. He's truly trying to lay it out

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Speaker 1: the way it really is, in a way that's remarkable. Now,

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Speaker 1: despite all this work by Jay, there was a very absurd,

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Speaker 1: false rumor about Jay's opposition to the Constitution. And this

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Speaker 1: is important because the Constitution is going to be adopted

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Speaker 1: both in popular votes and in legislative votes all across

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Speaker 1: the country. The rumor first surfaced on November twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: seventeen eighty seven, when the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer reported that

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Speaker 1: a non name source, and we're certainly familiar with this model,

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Speaker 1: an unnamed source said, quote his excellency John Jay, a

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Speaker 1: gentleman of the first rate abilities joined to a good heart,

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Speaker 1: who at first was carried away with the new plan

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Speaker 1: of government, is now very decidedly against it and says

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Speaker 1: it is as deep and wicked a conspiracy as has

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Speaker 1: ever been invented in the darkest ages against the liberties

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Speaker 1: of a free people. In New York. It goes by

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Speaker 1: the name of the gilded Trap, and very properly. For

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Speaker 1: when we find men of the first abilities and best

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Speaker 1: intentions at first taken with it, how very artfully they

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Speaker 1: must have been drawn up and glossed over. And who,

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Speaker 1: then wonder at the General Washington or anybody else, could

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Speaker 1: have signed it. In convention, the Governor of New York

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Speaker 1: is very active against it, and will not call the Assembly, who,

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Speaker 1: in that case will not meet this some months. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, the people there will have time to think

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Speaker 1: for themselves on this important subject. This is clearly a

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Speaker 1: report designed to weaken the support for the Constitution. It

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Speaker 1: was quickly reprinted in papers all across the colonies. In response,

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Speaker 1: Washington wrote, quote, it is very unlikely, therefore, that a

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Speaker 1: man of his knowledge and foresight should turn on both

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Speaker 1: sides of a question in so short a space. I

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Speaker 1: am anxious, however, to know the foundation of any of this. Mattison,

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Speaker 1: in response that said, the support quote is an arrant forgery,

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Speaker 1: and one Washington that quote, tricks of this sort are

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Speaker 1: not unknown with the enemies of the Constitution. And I

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Speaker 1: think we today have no idea how intense, how passionate,

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Speaker 1: and how real the fight was over whether or not

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Speaker 1: to adopt the constitution. Once Jay heard of this, he

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Speaker 1: wrote to John Vaughan on December first, seventeen eighty seven,

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Speaker 1: which was printed in the Pennsylvania Packet on December seventh, quote,

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Speaker 1: Dear Sir, I thank you for your obliging letter the

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Speaker 1: twenty fourth thought on and closing a paragraph respecting me

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Speaker 1: and misster Oswell's paper of the same date, You have

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Speaker 1: my authority to deny the change of sentiments that imputes

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Speaker 1: to me, and to declare that, in my opinion, it

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Speaker 1: is advisable for the people of America to adopt the

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Speaker 1: constitution proposed by the Way Convention. If you should think

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Speaker 1: it expedient to publish this letter, I have no objections

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Speaker 1: to its being done there He responded, and in seventeen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight he wrote a pamphlet called and addressed to

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Speaker 1: the people of the State of New York, on the

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Speaker 1: subject of the Constitution agreed upon that Philadelphia, which Hamilton

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Speaker 1: cited in Federal's Number eighty five. Ben Franklin suggested that

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Speaker 1: Jay put his name on the pamphlet, as would add

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Speaker 1: weight to the document, but Jay did not take this suggestion.

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Speaker 1: That the address appeared as an anonymous pamphlet. However, in

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Speaker 1: a June nineteenth, seventy eighty eight letter, his wife Sarah

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Speaker 1: Livingston wrote, the Jay's well known style gave them away,

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Speaker 1: and in June eighth, seventeen eighty eight, Washington's Madison a

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Speaker 1: copywriting quote. It is written with much good sense and moderation.

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Speaker 1: I conjecture, but upon no certain ground, that mister Jay

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Speaker 1: is the author of it. He sent it to be

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Speaker 1: some time ago, since which I have received two or

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Speaker 1: three more copies. The address summarized his arments for the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: the need for different branches of government, and dangers of

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Speaker 1: government vested solely in one man or one body of

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Speaker 1: men quote, like men to whom the experience of other

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Speaker 1: ages and countries had taught wisdom, then only determined that

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Speaker 1: it should be erected by and depend on the people.

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Speaker 1: Remembering the many instances in which governments vested solely in

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Speaker 1: one man or one body of men had degenerated into tyrannies,

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Speaker 1: they judged it most prudent that the three great branches

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Speaker 1: of power should be committed to different hands, and therefore

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Speaker 1: that the executives should be separated from the legislative and

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Speaker 1: the judicial. From both. Thus far the property of their

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00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: work is easily seen and understood, and therefore is thus

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Speaker 1: far almost universally approved. For no one man or thing

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Speaker 1: under the sun has ever yet pleased everybody. The next

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00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,679
Speaker 1: question was what particular power should be given to these

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Speaker 1: three branches here. The different views in interest to the

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Speaker 1: different states, as well as the different abstract opinions that

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Speaker 1: AIR members in such points, interposed many difficulties. On Sunday,

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Speaker 1: April thirteenth, seventeen eighty eight, a day after Jay's address

298
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Speaker 1: was supposed to be published, as a prank, a medical

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00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 1: student waved a dismembered limit of some boys below a

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Speaker 1: window of the New York Hospital. This led to the

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Speaker 1: discovery of dismembered corpses inside the building, pointing to grave robbing.

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Speaker 1: A riot ensued, forcing physicians and students from the hospital

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Speaker 1: to take refuge in the city jail. Hamilton Governor George Clinton,

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Speaker 1: Mayor James Dwayne, and a small group of militia tried

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Speaker 1: to stop the rioters from attacking the jail, but were unsuccessful.

306
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Speaker 1: By that afternoon, the jail was still under siege, and

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Speaker 1: John Jay and Matthew Clark's and armed with swords, marched

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Speaker 1: towards the jail with fifty militiamen. Jay was struck in

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Speaker 1: the head with a stone and seriously injured, and according

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Speaker 1: to a letter from Jay's wife to his mother, Jay

311
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Speaker 1: was carried home for emergency medical attention. However, he recovered.

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Speaker 1: January thirty first, seventeen eighty eight, New York State Senator

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Speaker 1: Egbert Benson proposed the state legislature that the delegates to

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Speaker 1: the ratifying Convention be chosen in the same number as

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Speaker 1: the state Assembleman by all the free male citizens at

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Speaker 1: the age of twenty one years and upwards, and they

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Speaker 1: meet him Poughkeepsie the third Thursday of June. Despite initial

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Speaker 1: pushback from Governor George Clinton, both houses passed the resolution

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Speaker 1: setting elections for delegates for the end of April. Almost immediately,

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Speaker 1: Jay's name started appearing in the list of potential candidates.

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Speaker 1: On February sixteenth, seventeen eighty eight, someone named Quote, a Federalist,

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Speaker 1: included Jay on his list of candidates. On February twentieth,

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Speaker 1: he was again proposed, with the writer saying of Jay,

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Speaker 1: quote from his long services abroad and at home in

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Speaker 1: the nature of his present office as Minister of Foreign Affairs,

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Speaker 1: he must be supposed to possess the best information of

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Speaker 1: any of the United States on our relative situation with

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Speaker 1: foreign nations. A few weeks later, Quote an Independent elector

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Speaker 1: and Quote a Citizen included Jay on their proposed list

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Speaker 1: of candidates. On April nine, seventeen eighty eight, Thomas Randall,

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Speaker 1: a prominent New York merchant, put Jay in a more

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Speaker 1: formal federal ticket for New York City and County on

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Speaker 1: behalf of a number of your fellow citizens. Jay's name

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Speaker 1: was included on a nine man slate adopted a meeting

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Speaker 1: of a large number of respectable mechanics and tradesmen, which

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Speaker 1: assembled at Van Waters Tavern. Jan in March twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: seventeen eighty eight. Letter to William Bingham said that the

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00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 1: election would be the most contested of any we have

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Speaker 1: had since the Revolution. That didn't prove to be correct.

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Speaker 1: The anti Federalists did not enter a slate, though some

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Speaker 1: votes were cast for their candidates. Two thousand, eight hundred

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00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: and thirty six ballots were cast, the largest number that

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00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: had been courted in the New York City election at

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00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: the time. Jay one with two thousand, seven hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty five. Now, as an example of respect and popularity,

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00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: let me repeat that number. Out of two thousand, eight

347
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty six votes, he got two thousand, seven

348
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five. That's an amazing number somebody has

349
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Speaker 1: run for office afterday. I wish once in my life

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Speaker 1: I could have had that murder. For days after the

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00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 1: convention began, Jay wrote to his wife, quote, the proceedings

352
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: and debates have been tempered and inoffensive to either party,

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Speaker 1: though the opposition to the proposed constitution appears formidable, more

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Speaker 1: so from numbers and other considerations. Jay's appearance on the

355
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: floor of the convention caught the eye of many. The

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Speaker 1: correspondent for the New Or Daily Advertiser wrote on June

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Speaker 1: twenty first, seventy eight, quote, after the Chancellor had concluded,

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Speaker 1: mister j Rose commanding pleasure and satisfaction, and no doubt

359
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: he spoke convincingly on the points raised. Is the most

360
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 1: peculiar knack of expressing himself I ever heard fancy passion.

361
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: In short, everything that makes in order. He is stranger

362
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: to you, and yet none who hear what are pleased

363
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: with him and captivated beyond expression. One jenner at the

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00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: convention wrote to his friend in the Connecticut that he

365
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Speaker 1: quote found Jay's reasoning to be weighty as gold, polished

366
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: as silver, and strong as steel. On June twenty six,

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Speaker 1: John Williams, an Upstate delegate, proposed a resolution that would

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Speaker 1: deny Congress the power to impose an excise tax on

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Speaker 1: products grown or manufactured the United States. The argument for

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Speaker 1: the resolution, according to Jay, were quote non matured and

371
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Speaker 1: quote half baked. And Jay suggested they should go home

372
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 1: to cut grass rather than take up matters by halves.

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Speaker 1: It is a known Jay Mennett or just trying to

374
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Speaker 1: stall for time. Governor Clinton, the convention's presiding officer called

375
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Speaker 1: Jay's buff, asking why Jay didn't move to adjourn, and

376
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: Jay responded to the Clinton should spend time clarifying the position.

377
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: The next day, in July first, Jay got up and

378
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: spoke his position against the resolution. According to Francis Child's

379
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: notes of the neuro Ratification Convention debates, and this gives

380
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: you some feeling for Jay, who's really an intellectual, argues

381
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: in a very rational, methodical way. Quote John Jay rose

382
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: and said that he would confine himself to a few

383
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: remarks as the question had been pretty fully debated. He

384
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: began with a description of the general characteristics of a

385
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: government proper of the United States. It had, he said,

386
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: been justly laid down to the government, which was to

387
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: accomplish national purposes, should command the national resources. Here a

388
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: question had been raised, who to be proper that the

389
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: state governments should limit the powers of the general government

390
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: relative to its supplies, would be right or politic That

391
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: the sovereign power of a nation should depend for support

392
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: on the mere will of the several members of that nation.

393
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: That the interest of a park should take place of

394
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: that of the whole, or that the partial views of

395
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: one of the members should interfere with and defeat the

396
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: views of all. He said that, after the most mature reflection,

397
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Speaker 1: he could see no possible impropriety in the general government

398
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: having access to all the resources in the country. With

399
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: respect to direct taxes, it appeared him that the proposed

400
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: amendment would involve great difficulties. Suppose the state should refuse

401
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: to comply with not the same mode is the same

402
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: reasons which produced the non compliance? And do such state

403
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: to resist to impose the in collecting of the tax?

404
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: Would not a number of states in similar circumstances beack

405
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: to unite to give their resistance weight. They could not

406
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: all be forced. It's interesting, if you think about it.

407
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: We're currently having a fight over things like can the

408
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: federal government declare that it's going after illegal immigrants? Or

409
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: can a city or state decide that they can buy

410
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: themselves declare sanctuary. And of course, all the way to

411
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 1: the founding fatherst was now, of course, not once you've

412
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: made a federal decision, no state or local community could

413
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: interpose itself between the federal government and the application of law.

414
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: On July fourth, seventeen eighty eight, Jay wrote John Adams

415
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: that despite quote the many amendments proposed by the opposition,

416
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: we proceed with much temper and moderation. I am not

417
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 1: without hopes of an accommodation, although my expectations of it are

418
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: not very silquine. He then wi Awotion in the same day,

419
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: quote the Constitution constantly gains advocates among the people, and

420
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: its enemies in the Convention seemed to be much embarrassed.

421
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: By July eighth, the delegates finished their explanation of the Constitution,

422
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: and Jay wrote to Washington, quote the ground of rejected

423
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: seemed to be entirely deserted. By July tenth, fifty five

424
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: amendments were proposed in the categories explanatory, conditional, and recommendatory.

425
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: A fourteen man committee was appointed with John Jay as

426
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: a leader. Although what happened in this committee was never

427
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: any official reports, the New York Daily Advertiser did write

428
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: quote when the committee met, mister j declared that the

429
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: word conditional should be erased before there should be any

430
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: decision of the merits the amendment. This occasion about an

431
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: hour's debate, and the Anti is determining not to give

432
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: up that point. The committee was dissolved without affecting anything.

433
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: According to Jay, a conditional ratification amounted to a virtual

434
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: and total rejection of the Constitution, and declared that they

435
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: could not consult with them at all if they insisted

436
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: upon that point. According to the New York Daily Advertiser,

437
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: both parties were firm and the committee ended without reaching

438
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: any agreement. That afternoon, Jay reported the convention of that quote,

439
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: no plan of conciliation has been formed and no measure taken.

440
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: He then blamed the anti Federalists for quote adhering rigidly

441
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: to the principle of conditional adoption which is inadmissible and absurd.

442
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: By July twenty third, after days of heated arguments, Jay

443
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: wrote Washington at the Convention, by a vote of thirty

444
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: one to twenty nine, adopted the motion to strike out

445
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: the words unconditioned and substitute in full confidence, though he

446
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: cautioned Washington that the opicertion planned to rally their forces

447
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: to regain their ground. And think about this. The Constitution

448
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: of the United States, in what is one of its

449
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: most important states, is surviving by a vote of thirty

450
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: one twenty nine. Anybody who thinks that this was automatic

451
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: or a done deal or easy, the work of Jay

452
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: and others pulled off something which easily could have failed.

453
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: On July twenty fourth, Jay took to the foorid to

454
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: express the hope the unanimous agreement could be reached for

455
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: second Convention, saying we are now one people, all pledged

456
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: for amendments. On July twenty fifth, Jay proposed amendment of

457
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: boring all except natural born citizens from Eligibilia's president, vice president,

458
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: or members of either House of Congress. This member was

459
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: adopted by the majority, but like many amendments of the

460
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: New York Convention, proposed never was incorporated into the Constitution.

461
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: In seventeen eighty nine, the Constitution having been adopted, John

462
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: Jay became the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court

463
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: under Washington. He's best known for the case of Chisholm

464
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: versus Georgia, the first significant case of the Supreme Court.

465
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: In seventeen ninety two, Alexander Chisholm, the executor of Robert

466
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: Farquhar's of State, attempted to sue the State of Georgia

467
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: over payments due to him for goods Robert Farquhart had

468
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: supplied Georgia during the Revolutionary War. Georgia refused to appeal,

469
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: claiming that as a sovereign state, it could not be

470
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: sued without consenting to the suit. In a four to

471
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: one decision, the Court ruled in favor of Chisholm, with

472
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: Chief Justice John Jay and Justice as John Blair, James Wilson,

473
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: and William Cushing and the majority. The Court ruled that

474
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: Georgia did not have sovereign immunity and could be sued.

475
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: In response to this ruling, Congress proposed the Eleventh Amendment,

476
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: which was ratified in seventeen ninety five, which prevented citizens

477
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: of other states and foreign countries from suing states in

478
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: federal court. Now Washington cz J has more than just

479
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: a justice. In seventeen ninety four, at Washington's request, J

480
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: went to England to negotiate a treaty between Britain and

481
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: the United States. Jay's only bargainingship was the threat that

482
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: the Nited States who joined the Danish and Swedish governments

483
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: in defending their neutral state and resisting the British seizure

484
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: of their goods. However, Hamilton informed the British that the

485
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: United States said no intention of joining the suprement with

486
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: Denmark and Sweden, thus leaving Jay with no leverage. The

487
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: treaty addressed for very few of the United States interests

488
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: and honorly granted Britain with more rights. The only thing

489
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: that the United States got was a surrender of the

490
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: Northwestern ports and a commercial treaty of Great Britain that

491
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: granted the United States most Favored nation status. All the

492
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: other issues, including the Canadian mean border, compensation for pre

493
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: revolutionary debts, and British caesars of American ships, were to

494
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: be resolved by arbitration. Jay conceded that the British could

495
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: seize US goods bound for France if they paid for them.

496
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: On November nineteenth, seventeen ninety four, the treaty was signed.

497
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: The treaty was controversial and unpopular among Americans, but it

498
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: still managed to be ratified by the Senate on a

499
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: twenty to ten vote. On June twenty fourth, seventeen ninety

500
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: while negotiating Jay's treaty, he was elected as Governor of

501
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: New York. Jay left the Supreme Court to take office

502
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: and served as governor for six years. While governor, he

503
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: signed the Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery. The

504
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: law all made children born to enslave mothers after July fourth,

505
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: seventeen seventy nine, legally free. However, these children would be

506
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: required to work for their mothers and slavers until they

507
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: reached the age of twenty five for females and twenty

508
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: eight for males, but it was a first major step

509
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: towards emancipation. In eighteen oh one, after twenty seven years

510
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: of public service, Jay decided to retire. By that time,

511
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: Jay acquired seven hundred and fifty acres of land by inheritance.

512
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: While he was governor, he made renovations to his farmhouse

513
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: in preparation for retirement. He moved there in eighteen oh one,

514
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: and by that following spring, his wife, Sarah died, leaving

515
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: him a widower with his three youngest children at home.

516
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: Jay never remarried and stayed there until his death in

517
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: eighteen twenty nine. You know, John Jay is an example

518
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: the kind of person with a wide range of talents

519
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: who didn't start out in life being anti British, didn't

520
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: start out in life thinking he was an American, but

521
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: gradly over time not only concluded that independence was necessary,

522
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: but concluded that that required a sound government that would

523
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: work and function, that would protect our freedoms, both from

524
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: enemies abroad and from the dangers of tyranny at home.

525
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: And then he decided he would work in a variety

526
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: of ways. Think about all the different things he did

527
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: in his career, all the different jobs he held, and

528
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: he was truly an American citizen and the kind of

529
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: person who made America possible. In that sense, John Jay

530
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: deserves far more credit than he normally gets, and he

531
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: was sort of the quintessential foundation on which America was built.

532
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: You can learn more about John Jay on our show

533
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: page at newtsworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by ginglishry

534
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia, our executive producers guard Zi Sloan and

535
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: our researcher as Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show

536
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley special thanks to the team

537
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: of gingishry sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope

538
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple podcas Cast and both rate us

539
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others

540
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of

541
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: neut World can sign up for my three freeweekly columns

542
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: at gingrichree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich.

543
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: This is neutrald